Discovery Channel Proves the Qur'an to be the word of God !!

[Warsan_Star_Muslimah]

Advo,

looool...no! Its just that if I disappear and then 'someone' sends me a message and I'm not there to reply back, I would be uspet that they had to wait for me that long s’il vous plaît, say you understand me Monsieur?

Voltage,

lol, goodness. The extent that some people go, eh? I can't believe he said that was one of the BIGGEST reasons the Quran is not from God,

It works, because some people will make themselves look like 'fools' in the desperate hope to misguide others, like they've misguided themselves.

Subahnallah to the one who created the seven heavens, and the wondrous sky! For everytime I stare at the sky it truely makes me happy to be a believer, alhamudlilah.

[Oxy-]

The biggest thing that confuses me is not a person who doesn’t believe in Islam (and has their reasons of disbelief) but an actual person who is Muslims and believes in Islam through & through. And when they are shown factual evidence to further reinforce their faith… simply say words like “mashallah” and the next day or so their back to their sinful behaviour.

Muslim people like that confuse me the most.

[Voltage]

The biggest thing that confuses me is not a person who doesn’t believe in Islam (and has their reasons of disbelief) but an actual person who is Muslims and believes in Islam through & through. And when they are shown factual evidence to further reinforce their faith… simply say words like “mashallah” and the next day or so their back to their sinful behaviour.

Muslim people like that confuse me the most.

Agree and I believe it is a weakness of iman, which we are all guilty of. That is why prayer is important, because it enforces iman and fortifies the heart making you strong.

We should strive in our salaah, including myself.

[ModerateMuslim]

deen al-islam concerns itself with matters of worship, so it's not a scientific book. but whenever it mentions matters of science pertaining to matters of worship -- then it's without a shadow of a doubt always in agreement with science (or more correctly, science is in agreement it with).

for example, the fact that the earth is not flat but it does appear to be so; and really, for all intents and purposes, it's that way as far as humans are concerned. and the sun is in fact in orbit (the galactic center, i.e. a black hole). all these facts are in agreement with the book and the sunnah, like everything else that is from al-haq. all qur'an verses are clear in it comes to worship. but if are trying to deduce scientific facts from it, then you'll; as a lot of verses are generally vague when it comes to matters relating to other than worship. but the problem is, a lot of insecure muslims, to get approval from the kuffar, look for facts about nature in the book of allah swt; and, because of the vagueness of the book and the sunnah when it comes to nature, they end up reaching a lot of scientific conclusions that may or may not have being in the book or the sunnah.

anyway, when it comes to the seen, we, muslims, should look to science only in matters other than worship. but most of all, we can't use the seen to prove the unseen. if we try, we'll only fail miserably. and really, humans have no business altogether using their limted and pathetic reason and logic to debate and speculate upon things that are part of the unseen, way beyond the seen. human reason has its pathetic limits; humans should be aware of this limitation and observer it. so when it comes to the unseen, just affirm that which allah swt and messenger saw affirmed, without asking the why or speculating, and leave it at that. as simple as that. this is the manhaj of ahl us-sunnah wal jamah.

as is, science has its limitation. we can never for sure know things the way they really are. we can only hope to know things close to the way they really are; but never exactly the way they are. there always be uncertainty, i.e. the uncertainty principle.

[Voltage]

Somali Star the reason the Islamic world is the way it is today is people like you. We already know you are a subscriber to the fringe ideology that is tearing Islam to pieces, but what exactly are you blabbering about? What are you against, because I still do not know what you are against. Are you against knowledge gathering?

Islam is knowledge and worship should be based on knowledge. When the prophet was asked what is your miracle, he said the Qur'an is my miracle. The Qur'an is the truth and it is a fact that science is just a word for knowledge. By adhering to the Qur'an, we are gaining knowledge and through it we are practicing science. The prophet also said to his illiterate followers "go to even China to gain knowledge". Islam is not just about religious doctrine, and matters pertaining to the spirituality, Islam is a way of life and influences the life of a Muslim completely. The Qur'an reinforces this fact. Islam tells us not to eat pork. Why? Islam tells us to wash and clean our bodies and especially certain places. Why? Islam tells us the birth of a child and the shape of this earth and the movement of the stars. Why? Islam tells us the origins of plants, about pollination, and that ants speak a language (which Western science just realized now). Why? The first verse in the Qur'an was IQRA, read which underscores the importance of knowledge. Muslims when they were in true Islamic state enlightened the world. They introduced the concept of great libraries, they advanced medicine, agriculture, technological innovation, and even kept the history of the old world alive by recording and protecting them. Islam is science, and science is part of Islam. Everything in the Qur'an has an important mean and ever reference involving nature and science has a meaning and reasoning. Because they are signs of this book's truth and the existence of God. Then by virtue of it being signs, it is supposed to be used in Da'wah to both defend this religion from slander and to show others the light.

What are you exactly arguing against?

[Mr. Yungnfresh]

ISLAM WRITING ABOUT THE ORBIT OF THE MOON AND SAYING THE ORBIT IS A "SPHERE" AT A TIME WHEN PPL THOUGH EARTH WAS FLAT AND DID NOT EVEN UNDERSTAND CONCEPT OF MOON

And We have decreed set phases for the moon, until it ends up looking like an old date branch. It is not for the sun to overtake the moon nor for the night to outstrip the day; each one is swimming in a sphere. (Qur'an, 36:39-40)

This is one of the clearest evidences that the Quran can not be from God. First the Quran SAYS the earth IS flat (rolled out like a carpet). If you don't agree with me read the tasfirs and Saxiix Bukhaari.

"And Allah has made the earth for you as a carpet (spread out). That you may go about therein, in spacious roads." (Al-Qur’an 71:19-20)

"He Who has made for you the earth like a carpet spread out; has enabled you to go about therein by roads (and channels)...." (Al-Qur’an 20:53)

No, neither the Qur'an nor Hadiths have ever stated the earth is flat. Your association of the term "like a carpet" with a flat surface is a limitation of your comprehension of the verse and not a deficiency in Qur'anic authenticity. The mistake you're making is assuming Allah SWT Said the earth shares the properties of a carpet (i.e. flat and level), when the simile in the verse explicitly states He made the earth "like a carpet", in that the earth's crust acts as a protective layer, much like the practical purpose of the aforementioned carpet. As I referenced before, the earth's crust is less than 30 miles in thickness, while it's entire radius is about 3750 miles (so the crust is actually about 0.008% the size of the radius). Beneath this crust is layer upon layer of molten rock and liquid magma, reaching temperatures in excess of 9000 degrees (which is hotter than the surface of the sun). Pursuant to that scientific fact, it's not inconceivable to reconcile the brilliant employment of this analogy to compare the function of the earth's crust with that of a carpet's, especially considering this relatively scarce crust is the only layer of the earth that is hospitable to sustaining any kind of life.




Your attempts at refuting the plethora of scientific information found within the Quran, empirically proven by modern science, are tantamount to sophisticated sophistry. I'll do you one better though and put an end to the speculation as to where the Quran stands in terms of the shape of the earth:

"And we have made the earth egg shaped". [Al-Qur’an 79:30]

There are those who Allah SWT, in His Inifinite Wisdom, has Chosen to seal their hearts so they can look, but cannot see...and hear, but cannot listen.

[Voltage]

Takbiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiir.

[Buhodle-Gurl]

Amazin' video. I loved eveRy bit of it.

[Spursman]

[ And He has affixed into the earth mountains standing firm, lest it should shake
with you, and rivers and roads, that you may guide yourselves. And landmarks
{signposts, etc. during the day} and by the stars {during the night}, they {mankind}
guide themselves.] Soorat An Nahl {16:15-16}

[Is then He, Who creates as one who creates not? Will you not then remember?
And if you would count the graces of Allaah, never could you be able to count
them. Truly! Allaah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.] Soorat An Nahl {16:17-18}

[ And Allaah has brought you out from the wombs of your mothers while you
know nothing. And He gave you hearing, sight, and hearts that you might give
thanks {to Allaah}.] Soorat An Nahl {16:78}

[ Do they not see the birds held {flying} in the midst of the sky? None holds them
but Allaah {none gave them the ability to fly but Allaah}. Verily, in this are clear
proofs and signs for people who believe.] Soorat An Nahl {16:79}

[ Who has made earth for you like a bed {spread out}; and has opened roads
{ways and paths etc.} for you therein; and has sent down water from the sky.
And We have brought forth with it various kinds of vegetation. Eat and pasture
your cattle, {therein}; verily, in this are proofs and signs for men of
understanding.] Soorat Ta Ha {20:53-54}

[ Thereof {the earth} We created you, and into it We shall return you, and from
it We shall bring you out once again.] Soorat Ta Ha {20:55}

[ He brings out the living from the dead, and brings out the dead from the living.
And He revives the earth after its death. And thus shall ou be brought out
{resurrected}.] Soorat Ar Ruum {30:19}

[ And among His Signs is this, that He created you {Adam} from dust, and then
[Hawwa {Eve} from Adam's rib, and then his offspring from the semen, and], -
behold you are human beings scattered!] Soorat Ar Ruum {30:20}
[ And among His Signs is this, that He created for you wives from among
yourselves, that you may find repose in them, and He has put between you
affection and mercy. Verily, in that are indeed signs for a people who reflect.]
Soorat Ar Ruum {30:21}

[ And among His Signs is the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the
difference of your languages and colours. Verily, in that are indeed signs for men
of sound knowledge.] Soorat Ar Ruum {30:22}

[ And among His Signs is the sleep that you take by night and by day, and your
seeking of His Bounty. Verily, in that are indeed signs for a people who listen.]
Soorat Ar Ruum {30:23}

[ And among His Signs is that He shows you the lightning, by way of fear and
hope, and He sends down water from the sky, and therewith revives the earth
after its death. Verily, in that are indeed signs for a people who understand.]
Soorat Ar Ruum {30:24}

[ And among His Signs is that the heaven and the earth stand by His Command,
then afterwards when He will call you by single call, behold, you will come out
from the earth {i.e from your graves for reckoning and recompense}.]
Soorat Ar Ruum {30:25}

[ To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and the earth. All are obedient to
Him.] Soorat Ar Ruum {30:26}

[ And He it is Who originates the creation, then will repeat it {after it has been
perished}, and this is easier for Him. His is the highest description {i.e. none has
the right to be worshipped but He, and there is nothing comparable unto Him} in
the heavens and in the earth. And He is the All-Mighty, the All-Wise.] Soorat Ar
Ruum {30:27}

[ See you not that the ships sail through the sea by Allaah's Grace? that He may
show you of His Signs? Verily, in this are signs for every patient, grateful
{person}.] Soorat Luqman {31:31}

[ Is it not a guidance for them, how many generations We have destroyed before
them in whose dwellings they do walk about? Verily, therein indeed are signs.
Would they not then listen? ] Soorat As Sajdah {32:26}

[ Have they not seen how We drive water {rain clouds} to the dry land without
any vegetation, and therewith bring forth crops providing food for their cattle
and themselves? Will they not then see?] Soorat As Sajdah {32:27}

[ It is Allaah Who takes away the souls at the time of their death, and those that
die not during their sleep. He keeps those {souls} for which He has ordained
death and sends the rest for a term appointed. Verily, in this are signs for a
people who think deeply.] Soorat Az Zumar {39:42}

[ And among His Signs are the ships, in the sea, like mountains. If He wills, He
causes the wind to cease, then they would become motionless on the back {of the
sea}. Verily, in this are signs for everyone patient and grateful.]
Soorat AshShura {42:32-33}

[ Or He may destroy them {by drowning} because of that which their {people}
have earned. And He pardons much.] Soorat Ash Shura {42:34}

[ And those who dispute {polytheists, etc. with Our Messenger} as regards Our
aayaat {proofs, evidences, lessons, signs, revelation, etc.} may know that there is
no place of refuge for them {from Allaah's punishment}.] Soorat Ash Shura
{42:35}

[ Verily, in the heavens and the earth are signs for the believers. And in your creation,
and what He scattered {through the earth} of moving {living} creatures are signs
for people who have Faith with certainty.] Soorat Al Jaathiya {45:3-4}

[ And in the alternation of night and day, and the provision {rain} that Allaah
sends down from the sky, and revives therewith the earth after its death, and in
the turning about of the winds {i.e. sometimes towards the East or North, and
sometimes towards the south or west etc., sometimes bringing glad tidings of rain
etc., and sometimes bringing the torment}, are signs for a people who
understand.] Soorat Al Jaathiya {45:5}

[ These are the aayaat {proofs, evidences, lessons, signs, revelation, etc.} of
Allaah, which We recite to you with truth. Then in which speech after Allaah
and His aayaat will they believe? ] Soorat Al Jaathiya {45:6}

[ Woe to every sinful liar, Who hears the Verses of Allaah {being} recited to him,
yet persists with pride as if he heard them not. So announce to him a painful
torment! ] Soorat Al Jaathiya {45:7-8}

[ And when he learns something of Our Verses {this Quraan}, he makes them a
jest. For such there will be a humiliating torment. ] Soorat Al Jaathiya {45:9}
[ In front of them there is Hell, and that which they have earned will be of no
profit to them, nor {will be of any profit to them} those whom they have taken as
Awliya' besides Allaah. And theirs will be a great torment. ] Soorat Al Jaathiya
{45:10}

WA BILLAAHI TAWFIIQ

[Hoowle]

up

[Hoowle]

First, you need to learn how to use the Bulletin Board Code system. I can hardly make out your replies to me. I'm assuming the red parts are yours. With that said, lets dismember your little quibble.

Can you provide any evidence? I have heard of Galen but have not read anywhere explaining the miracle of birth.

I rather not. It's late, I'm tired and not in the mood to fetch sources especially something you can easily do yourself. Just google: Galen stages of Embryology and you'll get tons of hits that will direct you to Galen's stages of embryology. Aristotle and Hippocrates also had similar stages.

An illiterate man in 4th Arabia said the fetus is created in the mother's womb in threefold darkness. Today science classifies brith into three Trimesters or stages the fetus is created inside of the darkness of a mother's womb. What is not clear besides your extreme attempt to deny this miracle?

What miracle? There's nothing miraculous about birth. It happens all the time.

As I said the verse is ambiguous. Only someone who has an agenda to prove the Quran as the word of God would make such inferences but none is given in the Quran. If the Quran meant it as description for the trimesters it would have said so.

And what is this 4th century you keep blabbing about? You mean 7th century?

Do you know how to read? You asked how can the moon and the sun overtake each other when the sun is the center of the solar system while the Quranic verse basically says the same thing that the Sun CANNOT overtake the moon and nor vice versa. Yet you concluded this is a clear evidence the Quran is not from God when by virtue of its scientific fact that we know today it no illiterate man in 4th century Arabia could have come up with. Also the Quran says the earth is like a carpet, which it is..the fact it hugs the mantle. If I stand in China I am rooted to a flat earth in the same way if I stand across the word in South America I am the same, rooted to a flat earth that keeps me upright and balanced. The Qur'an already says multiple times that the plant is a sphere.

I am amazed you agreed with the Quran as science does today but reached concluded it is an example of a wrong.

I don't know whether to credit your stupidity or mendacity. Are you too stupid to comprehend the said verse or are you merely a barefaced liar doing for the Islam? Difficult conundrum must say.

Anyways, the verse would only make sense if it is assumed the both the moon and the sun already move as in orbits. It's like me saying "a car and a horse can not collide in mid-air" that assumes that the car and the horse can attain flight in the first place. Likewise a verse that says "moon and sun can not overtake each other" clearly implies moon and sun do move. And they do, it's all over the Quran here is a select sources:

And He it is Who created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon. They float, each in an orbit. Surah 21; Verse 33

014.033
YUSUFALI: And He hath made subject to you the sun and the moon, both diligently pursuing their courses; and the night and the day hath he (also) made subject to you.
PICKTHAL: And maketh the sun and the moon, constant in their courses, to be of service unto you, and hath made of service unto you the night and the day.
SHAKIR: And He has made subservient to you the sun and the moon pursuing their courses, and He has made subservient to you the night and the day.

and in these two verses we get unambiguous clarification of the matter... the sun and the moon not only move around in orbits they chase each other. Here is the verse:

091.001
YUSUFALI: By the Sun and his (glorious) splendour;
PICKTHAL: By the sun and his brightness,
SHAKIR: I swear by the sun and its brilliance,

091.002
YUSUFALI: By the Moon as she follows him;
PICKTHAL: And the moon when she followeth him,
SHAKIR: And the moon when it follows the sun,

So as you can see, the verse in contention DOES say (obvious to any honest person) that the sun and the moon move. In these last verses we have further evidence that the sun does indeed move and follows the moon. The hadiths also say pretty much the same thing.

Clearly the Quran can not be the infallible word of God. Because God would have known the sun doesn't and can not "follow the moon."

Dissect the argument and show us what you disagree with if you have an argument:

"In former times a month was calculated as the time between two full moons, or the time it took the Moon to travel around the Earth. According to this, one month was equal to 29 days, 12 hours and 44 minutes. This is known as the "lunar month." Twelve lunar months represent one year, according to the Hijri calendar. However, there is a difference of eleven days between the Hijri calendar and the Gregorian calendar, in which a year is the time it takes the Earth to orbit the Sun. Indeed, attention is drawn to this difference in another verse:

They stayed in their Cave for three hundred years and added nine. (Qur'an, 18:25)

We can clarify the time referred to in the verse thus: 300 years x 11 days (the difference which forms every year) = 3,300 days. Bearing in mind that one solar year lasts 365 days, 5 hours, 48 minutes and 45.5 seconds, 3,300 days/365.24 days = 9 years. To put it another way, 300 years according to the Gregorian calendar is equal to 300+9 years according to the Hijri calendar. As we can see, the verse refers to this finely calculated difference of 9 years. (Allah knows best.) There is no doubt that the Qur'an, which contains such pieces of information, which transcended the everyday knowledge of the time, is a miraculous revelation."

I'm not sure what is it you want me to dissect. This debate is about the divine origins of the Quran as evidenced by the miraculous knowledge in it that was not known at the time the Quran was written. To prove that you must present verses from the Quran that show these unknown before "scientific facts". Coincidences and fancy calculations that say nothing don't count. You need to provide unambiguous and conclusive evidence for the Quran's divine origins.

I'm losing faith in you. Don't let me down.

Only Allah (Swt) and his angels know the conceptions, existence, the form, and the details of his heavens. Muslims are people and can have their own opinion. The Qur'an is the word of God and the Qur'an says explicity that there are 7 heavens which has been translated for centuries as "skies" or "7 skies". Today we know there are 7 "atmospheres" or layers of above.

But as important than that is the clear definition of the Earth's layer as well. Why cannot you not attack what that 4th century man in Arabia said correctly identifying that EARTH is also made up of 7 exact layers??

It is Allah Who created the seven heavens and of the earth the same number, the Command descending down through all of them, so that you might know that Allah has power over all things and that Allah encompasses all things in His knowledge. (Qur'an, 65:12)

You really need to read your Quran with open mind. The heavens you keep quoting is not and can not be analogous to "7 skies." The reason is Allah said in the Quran the heavens are physical dome that is held up by invisible pillars. Sometimes pieces of the heavens fall on people's heads and at other times muslims can take a ladder and climb up to heaven, literally! Here are some verses to prove my case:

pieces of the sky falling on people's heads:

034.009
YUSUFALI: See they not what is before them and behind them, of the sky and the earth? If We wished, We could cause the earth to swallow them up, or cause a piece of the sky to fall upon them. Verily in this is a Sign for every devotee that turns to Allah (in repentance).
PICKTHAL: Have they not observed what is before them and what is behind them of the sky and the earth? If We will, We can make the earth swallow them, or cause obliteration from the sky to fall on them. Lo! herein surely is a portent for every slave who turneth (to Allah) repentant.
SHAKIR: Do they not then consider what is before them and what is behind them of the heaven and the earth? If We please We will make them disappear in the land or bring down upon them a portion from the heaven; most surely there is a sign in this for every servant turning (to Allah).

God keeping the "heavens" up:

021.032
YUSUFALI: And We have made the heavens as a canopy well guarded: yet do they turn away from the Signs which these things (point to)!
PICKTHAL: And we have made the sky a roof withheld (from them). Yet they turn away from its portents.
SHAKIR: And We have made the heaven a guarded canopy and (yet) they turn aside from its signs.

The stairway to heaven:

006.035
YUSUFALI: If their spurning is hard on thy mind, yet if thou wert able to seek a tunnel in the ground or a ladder to the skies and bring them a sign,- (what good?). If it were Allah's will, He could gather them together unto true guidance: so be not thou amongst those who are swayed by ignorance (and impatience)!
PICKTHAL: And if their aversion is grievous unto thee, then, if thou canst, seek a way down into the earth or a ladder unto the sky that thou mayst bring unto them a portent (to convince them all)! - If Allah willed, He could have brought them all together to the guidance - So be not thou among the foolish ones.
SHAKIR: And if their turning away is hard on you, then if you can seek an opening (to go down) into the earth or a ladder (to ascend up) to heaven so that you should bring them a sign and if Allah had pleased He would certainly have gathered them all on guidance, therefore be not of the ignorant.

Q.E.D. heavens in Islam means physical domes not atmospheric layers.

And illiterate man in 4th century Arabia correct identified the that the sun MOVES IN A FIXED PATTERN.. Yes, the sun's trajectory the fact that it moves. How could an illiterate man in 4th century Arabia know that?

The Qur'an also says:

And the sun runs to its resting place. That is the decree of the Almighty, the All-Knowing. (Qur'an, 36:38)

How could an illiterate man in 4th century Arabia knows what that the "still" sun even moves let alone runs in a fixed pattern, coming back to the same position something the scientific world today knows as the Solar Apex???

Sun's trajectory?

Solar apex about milky galaxy foretold in the Quran? Gimme a break man.

in the old days people believed the sun orbited the earth and that the earth was center of the universe. That's all the Quran tells us; nothing more, nothing else. The fact the Quran says the sun settles in a muddy spring ON earth proves it.

[Alphamander]

Votage, Couldn't wait to get your ass kicked, eh? Ka guro hadaba.

"And we have made the earth egg shaped". [Al-Qur’an 79:30]

Er, The Earth is NOT egg-shaped.

[ModerateMuslim]

Votage, Couldn't wait to get your ass kicked, eh? Ka guro hadaba.

"And we have made the earth egg shaped". [Al-Qur’an 79:30]

Er, The Earth is NOT egg-shaped.

not just any egg, you kaffir! but the egg of an ostrich.

[Warsan_Star_Muslimah]

"And we have made the earth egg shaped". [Al-Qur’an 79:30]

Er, The Earth is NOT egg-shaped.

Erm, really?

Firstly you assume all eggs have the same exact shape, which is wrong. They do actually differ.



And the shape of an egg is said to be "approximately that of half each a prolate (long) and roughly spherical (potentially even slightly oblate/short)"

So an egg can be oblate shaped, and the shape of the earth is said to be oblate spheroid.



Wouldn't you say the egg I marked looks exactly like the shape of the earth?


Alphamander, are you muslim?

[Ka darag]

Votage, Couldn't wait to get your ass kicked, eh? Ka guro hadaba.

"And we have made the earth egg shaped". [Al-Qur’an 79:30]

Er, The Earth is NOT egg-shaped.