does puntland represent the ethiopian vision 4 somalia?

[sahal80]

Libaax thanks for the info sxb but me and my debators fight politically with respect of the figures we are not waging clanish war we are somalis at the end so hopefully you post only your arguments without dissing particular clan atleast in this thread who's main topic is ethe ethiopian vision for somalia. Thanks.

[Estarix]

Their interest just happen to conflate but the agenda is different.

Lol at the agenda is different!

Before the ethiopian sodere conference wich suggested the federalism and clan-power sharing there were only SSDF!

All the TFG conferences in garowe was supposed to take place in boosaaso bc there were no garoowe yet!

Puntland itself is an ethiopian agenda let alone "her agenda"!
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Ifgx ... =html_text
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Ifgx ... =html_text

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=IXdq ... CB4Q6AEwBw

Say puntland is more collaporating with ethiopia!

Arabs were backing mogadishu centered initiative unil the TFG days for two reasons

Xamar folks have lost all their chances to establish a governmeent in mogadishu between 91-2007 when the jihadists appeared so they let ethiopia take mogadishu!


Since mj were against the arab backed TFG(ethiopian card), they got their chances in the ethiopian invasion and implementing the ethiopian project

Then the US has said there must be reconcilitian with sh sharif

He could have saved a lot but he was idiot, he's the man who appointed a man who was calling him a terrorist(gaas)

Gaas was running the govt and he made the transition like the road map, constitution that says mogadishu is not the capital

IGAD(ethiopia and kenya) have been sending a lot of misinforming reports to the west for the last decade about how somalia can not be ruled by a central govt

This govt basically has to do the things on that way but since its a permanent govt and only she does the things she can implement the map on her way also making them inclusive admins!

At least xamar folks have now two states plus banadir

Was supposed under gaas to have lesser states or losing the capital

Now there's a question about if he can keep his parts together!.

SSDF pushing for federalism didnt start in 1996 but in 1993 and it didnt start with Ethiopia calling for it but the United states. Like i said Puntland and Ethiopia just happen to agree on similar model and it just so happens that they have different interests behind it. Puntland in self autonomy and Ethiopia a weaker country. That is all.

[garoweboy]

We all know you border and live Jariiban and Garacad

Ths Hutu is the dumbest character in all of snet. Your people don't live in north Mudug. North Mudug belongs to Dal Udug every body knows that. You just can't claim other people's land on the net sac sac aad ceeb. I'll be back later to karbasash you my slave.

[quark]

Sahal, so why does a Hawiye President always oppose a Hawiye regional state. Sheik sharia split Hiiraan in two states after he lost. Hasan opposed this agreement yet allowed a Darood Jubaland which only exists inside Kismayo and then he allows North Mudug not to be included in a Central State. Also do not forget, he allowed Lower Shabelle, a Hawiye state to be carved into a Eelay one.

Abdiwahab where is North Mudug? We all know you border and live Jariiban and Garacad so where is North Mudug? Goldogob? Allah gave HG wealthy land where uranium sits on top of the earth. Its those leelkase who are comming to join HG but our policy is not even included Cabudwaaq. Central state its Hawiye state and Hawiye lands. Time to seal the border garacad and jariiban

This nigga is smoking some good shit

[HusseinHassan]

Sahal, so why does a Hawiye President always oppose a Hawiye regional state. Sheik sharia split Hiiraan in two states after he lost. Hasan opposed this agreement yet allowed a Darood Jubaland which only exists inside Kismayo and then he allows North Mudug not to be included in a Central State. Also do not forget, he allowed Lower Shabelle, a Hawiye state to be carved into a Eelay one.

Abdiwahab where is North Mudug? We all know you border and live Jariiban and Garacad so where is North Mudug? Goldogob? Allah gave HG wealthy land where uranium sits on top of the earth. Its those leelkase who are comming to join HG but our policy is not even included Cabudwaaq. Central state its Hawiye state and Hawiye lands. Time to seal the border garacad and jariiban

sacad in jariiban and garacad?

[blizzard90]

Garacad was always a sacad majority degaan, the lies you've been fed are slowly unfolding before your eyes

[Khalid Ali]

Khalid

Sxb nothing is new when it comes to mudug issue

Gaas said to the govt explain your position

Govt said south of mudug

This is true and that was her position for this interim era bc we are not yet in the federal era

There is no such a federal state yet including pl

According to vision2016, the interim states should be formed before december, still one remains(hiiraan and middle shabelle)

Now before octobar 2016, the federal states should be formed as part of other national agendas like the constitution and referendum and the elections

In that era mudug have to belong one side and this will be decided by a commission from the parliament that was formed by the justice minister


Punland or as their larger clan have one member, thus, I expect to join the central state

It will be like being against the constitution who states this!

Nick has said it depends on that commission

Take into consideration that hassan sheikh will not be under pressure in his last days but now he needs to get the world support for his good policy!


I was refering to puntlands plan to have the somali capital bc of certain clan won't be able to have equal states in the upper parliament(the house of elders from the states) without letting them have the capital

Their plan was hiiraan, galgaduud and south of galkacyo forming one state and another state comprises middle shabelle and banadir!

Now you got galgaduud+mudug state and hiiraan+middle shabelle state plus the capital!

And they have puntland+jubaland

And what's funny is that mogadishu is planning for the post-2016 that banadir region should have elections so it will not work for a non natives to represent her districts!.

I have a clue of how pl will look like in the federal era but I don't wanna to state this yet

There will be some larger compromise.

Its Farax topaz hand into this because it would not be something a Hawiye would see Farah topaz is idea of governing Somalia is to allow clan regions emerge but that are under Mogadishu so the bay and bakool and lower shabelle will still answer to Mogadishu they wont have their own army. The same way the SFG placed the Jubba admin under the SFG jurisdiction so this gives him time to sort out the federal structure from a constitutional point of view .So these states are all states but they have one stronger republic the SFG government that runs them, and the only autonomous state in Somalia will be Puntland, where the rest the other 11 province come under Mogadishu jurisdiction politically socially militarily.

Its as you pointed out Hassan sheikh and his strongest adviser farah topaz have this idea to entertain the Federalism formula at the same time there is parallel agenda, to make sure that Mogadishu is empowered politically with the help of the Diplomatic muscle they have particularly from Arab states and the European Union. The Clash political clash will emerge though sooner or later maybe just a little bit before 2016 because some how the Constitutional will create problems for Puntland to be precise because its the only independent autonomous state in Somalia. And this is where Ethiopia can come in Ethiopia will use Puntland to excersise leverage over Mogadishu.

Khalid Ali AkA Gacanyare

[sahal80]

In somalia there are three political clans: hiraab, isaaq and majeerten

Hiraab have lost their chances

Isaaq had their own project backed by non one so how can it work? The talks are the only way since there's no recognition

Mj represent the ethiopian/kenyan/IGAD policies in somalia against mogadishu/central state

They succeed in this with the help of ethiopia/IGAD who convinced the UN and the world

Now somalia is a federal country bc of mj and behind them ethiopia so this govt has to act this way

However, this govt is trying to implement the federalism on her way(new federal map/federalization from mogadishu) and make it look like doesn't work like the mudug issue and if it does work puntland would have accepted it so I guess mudug will decide the case of federalism
The Reporter - English Edition - Mogadishu Government and the duo mandate of Damul Jadiid cult: A new formula of desolation to Somalia's peace http://www.thereporterethiopia.com/inde ... lias-peace

Also this govt has eliminated PL politically(her jubbaland agenda, the cabinet)

SOMALIA: Ethiopia opens consulate in Puntland - Horseed Media http://horseedmedia.net/2010/05/30/soma ... -puntland/

[LiquidHYDROGEN]

Sahal, if you had the choice what would you go for instead of federalism?

[Sophisticate]

First of all hutu kid libaaxnyare darwish was not a qabill organization four out of the five leaders of the. Dervishes were isaaq second there has never been a samale entity sacad was sacad sauuur was sauuur xawaadle and gaaljecel were just seperate qabiiils

And dervishes did not exist present colonial dervish emerged 1899.
Its like saying shabaab is a qabil organization

Historically before the British came isaaq ruled over zeila to awdal qadiful somaal sharmarke salih


I don't care what you and your majeerreen cousins do

But don't include us into your mess


Thanks

You aren't even familiar with Zaylaci culture and your people have never been well represented in Awdal and never were, replace that with Samaroon or Cisse and you are on to something. It was the Samaroon that first dealt with the English and had treaties with them. Zaylac was rather self-sustaining in those days so the English really couldn't provide anything of substance to the locals.

[LiquidHYDROGEN]

^^^Zeila was destroyed by a HY adventurer and a handful of men with rifles. It can't have been that self-sufficient.

[Sophisticate]

It was not. Habar Yonis had no presence there. That is both historically inaccurate and geographically doesn't make sense. If you said Habar Awal that would be more believable quit clowning, you aren't from galbeed. This dude is a rebel without a cause or common sense.

Secondly it was self-sustain because it was a commercial/trading hub then. It didn't need anything from the English. They merely packed their bags and headed to Berbera.

Zaylac port was merely abandoned for the Djibouti one. It's pretty much a ghost town now.

[Hawdian]

Sophisticate,

In 1840, Hajji Sharmarke Ali Salah, a HY, became the governor of Zeila. At first he was challenged by a Habar Awal in Berbera but eventually he too accepted the authority of Hajji Sharmarke who was a wealthy merchant. When the British had landed onshore, he was bombarding Zeila with rifles and Ottoman cannons. He dismantled much of the city's infrastructure including its water system.

He was later challenged by another Habar Awal Sultan in Hargeisa (then called Harar). The locals also upraised against him after they were told he was a British spy. After 15 years of ruling he was replaced by an Afar man called Abu Baker who was from Tadjoura region. He was heavily involved in the slave trade.

After Hajji Sharmarke, Zeila never recovered and the Isaac begun building Berbera. Berbera's later link to Aden, which was the Dubai of that era, also isolated Zeila then later Ras Makonnen of Ethiopia commissioned the port of Djibouti with the French.


Ras

[sahal80]

Sahal, if you had the choice what would you go for instead of federalism?

I'm against any tribal governance, tribal based states/tribal parties etc


Secondly I'm for decentralized governance but not federalism, sort of the local governments/regional authorities/county councils that exisit in europe except for germany and switzerland

Switzerland is a federacy bc of her languages and ethnicities

Germany bc it was never united historically rather there were many states until a century ago then you got the ideological division and being divided by the super powers

Federalism is for people who share no culture, language etc.

Ethiopia had this ethnic-based federalism so she suggested a similar form for somalia wich is a clan-based federalism

Economically, the ethiopian regions are better but there's no democracy and are controlled by one party who uses the army

Even this role of the state ethiopia doesn't want for somalia!

The clan-based federalism in somalia is very dangerous bc galbahaarey will be managed by kismayo and connected to her, the same thing goes to every town and village

We will have a new generations that don't share common culture and identity

In this system we can have local governments and common political life such as the parties etc

Plus each region/province can have local authorities instead of fighting on one administration
Kenya has this system
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_au ... s_of_Kenya

[LiquidHYDROGEN]

It was not. Habar Yonis had no presence there. That is both historically inaccurate and geographically doesn't make sense. If you said Habar Awal that would be more believable quit clowning, you aren't from galbeed. This dude is a rebel without a cause or common sense.

Secondly it was self-sustain because it was a commercial/trading hub then. It didn't need anything from the English. They merely packed their bags and headed to Berbera.

Zaylac port was merely abandoned for the Djibouti one. It's pretty much a ghost town now.

Walaal open up a history book. Just because HY don't settle in Zeila/Awdal doesn't mean they can't get there. There are no physical barriers stopping them. Secondly, I didn't claim HY settled there. I said a HY swashbuckler ( Haji Sharmarke)conquered the famous Zeila with a few men armed with rifles. Zeila was in decline since the portuguese attack but Haji Sharmarke's conquest pretty much ended it. It's sad really, it would've made a great city.