All the people who say somaliland must forget the past watch this

[Xildiiid]

^
Darood used the state apparatus and state resources in order to settle historical scores with rival clans.

The lowest form of gunnimo.

[Geeljire252]

You're projecting your own ideas as facts which ludicrous.

1. Somaliland is based on the idea of recreating the sovereign country we lost in the 60's because of the naiveness of our grandfathers who fell for the fake Somaliweyn nonsense. When they realized their mistake it was late.

Recreating SL has nothing to do with the atrocities committed by Afweyne. I pointed out to you specifically the failed coup of 1961 when officers from SL tried to regain the control of their country and reclaim the independence of their country.

The MiG is there so that my people don't forget the stupidity of our grandfathers which lead to our destruction.


2. As I told you before, our xeer, traditional food, cultural dances, outlook on life is completely different from yours so no we don't share culture. There's no such thing as a 'generic Somali culture'.

3. SNM was created in 1981. Afweyne did not sign a peace deal with the communist bloc after the war. The first time he met with Mengistu after the war was in 1988. Afweyne disclaimed 'Somali Galbeed' and in return Mengistu would expel the SNM from Ethiopian territory. That forced the SNM to take the war to the SNA inside the republic and as the quote states, that's when the war officially started between the two belligerents (SNM & SNA). War should not be confused with the State Terrorism the civilians were subjected to.

4. The second quote states 'a bitter foretaste of what was in store for the Isaaks, Ogaden and Hawiye'. It was not about Hawiye being targetted because the source would specifically state that.

You can't prove that 50.000 died by poisoned wells, it's also illogical but we have proof that 50.000 died from airstrikes.

5. As I told you before, 'Dabargoynta Isaaqa' was a policy but it was also a well mechanized paramilitary group within the army carrying out the policy. There's nothing contradictory about that quote.

6. The regime ceased to exist when it was toppled because it didn't function anywhere in the country. So no, he was not a defense minister in 1992, it's impossible because there wasn't a central authority.

7. It says government troops took part in the reprisal but it doesn't state if those specific military division partook in the reprisal, only that the civilians who were affected lived in the regions where these division were stationed. So the argument that civilians fought these military divisions is false because nowhere in the source is it disclosed. You also claimed that these military division shelled Hawiye cities with heavy artillery, again it's not disclosed by the source you posted. You made it up and injected it in your argument.

8. Yes, Hawiye suffered at the hands of the regime. It was collective punishment, not state policy with the intention of extirminating Hawiye. It's that simple. Hawiye businessmen, students, teachers etc. in other parts of the country weren't abducted and subjected to extrajudicial killings like their Isaaq counterparts were. Hawiye towns and cities were not shelled with heavy artillery and aerial bombardments like Hargeisa, Burco, Arapsiyo, Kalsheikh etc.

1) I couldn't careless about your independence it doesn't affect me, so long as you don't start a war against Somalia or fiqishini and other Somalis. Go ahead.
But if you are obsessed with "taking revenge" and "playing hard ball" with Somalis, you will not be granted independence because we don't want a repeat of what happened. It's better you stay well away in limbo until you calm down and fully move on.

2) All Somalis are the same. all Somalis share the same culture, religion and language.
I don't see your argument hear show me examples. And what are you trying to say , you are not Somali? You are better than other Somalis?

3) Ethiopia armed and trained SNM. Why would it deport them?
Also if the two nations had an agreement about SNM, wouldn't Ethiopia capture you and hand you over to Somalia (like you did with ONLF) instead of pushing you across the border?
This doesn't make any sense. If the agreement was about SNM they would have captured you and sent you on a plane to Mogadishu which they didn't. Also they wouldn't have armed and trained you.



4) are you denying Hiiraan is Hawiye?
Are you denying the massacres in Hiiran was against Hawiye?
Are you denying the attrocities in Mudug such as the blockade and destruction of wells resulted in many deaths?

5) how can "Dhabargoynta Isaaq" be both a sector of the military are a government policy?
If it was a military sector where was it active?
Who commanded it?
How many soldiers did it have within its ranks?
If it was a government policy. Do you have any government letter to show it?
Do you have any other sources?

6) how can a regime "cease to exist" when their leader is still in the country. How can it cease to exist when government forces were still fighting in Hargeisa, Afgooye, Balidogle and twice tried to recapture the city. The regime "ceased to exist" in April 1992 when we captured Buurdhuubo (Siad barre's hideout) and Siad barre was forced into exile. And Kacaan troops were vanquished to the Kenyan border.
https://youtu.be/JNaE6Q1PWmE
Therefore Morgan was defence minister up until 1992.

7) it's basic knowledge.
21 division = Galgaduud and Hiiraan
54th division = Mudug, Nugaal and Bari (Mudug only after peace agreement between SSDF and regime)
77th division= Banaadir, lower Shabelle and middle Shabelle
26th division = North
60th division = Bay, Bakool, Jubboyinka and Gedo

Gaalkacyo was shelled

The troops first shelled the town on November 26th, destroying parts of the city and hitting some of the residential districts.
People fled in panic. Soldiers swept through the town, conducting house-to-house searches and looting whatever valuables they could find. Of course, not all civilians were able to flee, particularly elderly men and women and a great number of mothers with young children, many of who were killed.

https://www.hrw.org/reports/pdfs/s/soma ... lia909.pdf

If you had read the source, instead of blindly braying like dameer cawska laga xiray, you would have known it is 100% fact.

Go'ondalay

soldiers came in and armored infantry forces destroyed the village and water-reservoirs. When the government troops entered, they gathered the civilians who had not managed to flee and shot many of them.

Source: same source^

8)
You like arguing without knowledge. You are truly ignorant.
Did you even read my last comment or are you just repeating the same shit over and over again?

Answer this you keep avoiding it
Are the following not examples of "state terrorism"?
a) Exiling, imprisoning , executing Hawiye and southern intellectuals?
b) removing all Hawiye from the government they created and replacing them with MOD?
c) Torturing Hawiye and southern intellectuals in secret across the country?
d) looting Hawiye and southern farms, property, land and businesses?
e) denying Hawiye to be university educated?
f) the mass slaughter of Hawiye civilians in Hiiran, middle Shabelle,Galgaduud, Mudug, Banadir, lower Shabelle and Jubboyinka?
g) destroying and poisoning the wells in Hawiye regions like Mudug and Galgaduud?
h) mass slaughter of livestock owned by Hawiye nomads?
i) indiscriminately burning Hawiye farms and crops?
j) opening fire on peaceful protesters in Mogadishu?
k) using the brute military force ( 21st, 54th, 60th and 77th military sectors, more than 80% of the army) of the against civilians in places like Jazeera, Dhoobley, CeelBarde, Mogadishu Stadium, Gowlalo, Dagaari, Sadle-Higlo, Bandiir Adley, Galinsor, Wargalo, Do'ol, Hilmo, Go'ondalay, Galkayo, Beledweyne and many more place in the south and centre of the country?

All Somalis suffered at the hands of that brutal regime, the people in the south suffered the same if not more than the people in the north.

[Geeljire252]

Okay darod inslaved both issaq and hawiyie lool

But both Hawiye and Issaq karbaashed you.


You will never lead again

Stay out of this. It is strictly Irir fadhi ku dirir.

[luis1]

Xilddid

SNM was created in 1981. Afweyne did not sign a peace deal with the communist bloc after the war. The first time he met with Mengistu after the war was in 1988

In January 1986, under the auspices of IGADD, Siad Barre met Ethiopian leader Mengistu Haile-Mariam in Djibouti to discuss the "provisional" administrative line (the undemarcated boundary) between Ethiopia and Somalia

Siad Barre talked with Mengistu in 1986 not 1988.

http://countrystudies.us/somalia/27.htm

[STARKAST]

jalaaludin5,

Reer hargeisa like to peddle this exclusive clan genocide narrative that wishes to evoke sympathy for their independence struggle. When in fact the last government fought every clan, which they like to forget. Its a pity that people want to argue at which clan got targeted more from the last goverment, because thats the conversation Somalis can't really agree on.................... - Pathetic

All Somalis should accept that clan crimes and state crimes were committed on all sides. The last 27 years have been a dark period.

Somalis should learn to move on and rebuild their lives and country.

This is exactly what I was talking about. You say, 'reer hargeisa lik to peddle this for recognition', I say, 'all Daarood celebrate the bombing of hargeysa'.

From all corners of Somaliland, there are those that wish to never revise the crimes of the last regime. If you saw that documentary. ...Kill all but the crow,....you will see families protesting against exhumations of their loved ones. People have moved on from the past but if you want to use couple of knuckle heads on the net or unscrupulous politicians and those that like to cash in on the crimes of ..DAAROOD... then yes, you have a point.

You are right when you say lots of clans suffered in the hand of the last regime but you cannot use that as an excuse to dismiss the savagery of your late uncle.

As far as accepting and moving on goes, you are in no position to tell people we should move on from the crimes of your uncle.
-
-
-

Reer hargeisa ought to move themselves away from the past and into the future. Crimes that happened 25 years ago shouldn't hold you back today. Using political propaganda to gain international sympathy for a secessionist agenda and using the war to push "nationhood mythology" is pathetic. All clans suffered from the last regime, its childish to benchmark who suffered more. It was war. Move on.
Crimes from my "late uncle" AUN ? The last two presidents of the north western government were loyal lackeys from my "late uncle" AUN.

Xildiiid, i find it fascinating that as apostate you have such loyalty for administration ? Whys that - This isn't Scandinavia you know.

This is a question too all: When will reer Hargeisa accept that the SNM crimes against their neighbors ? If you want to be taken seriously at least be genuine with your morality.

[jalaaludin5]

jalaaludin5,

Reer hargeisa like to peddle this exclusive clan genocide narrative that wishes to evoke sympathy for their independence struggle. When in fact the last government fought every clan, which they like to forget. Its a pity that people want to argue at which clan got targeted more from the last goverment, because thats the conversation Somalis can't really agree on.................... - Pathetic

All Somalis should accept that clan crimes and state crimes were committed on all sides. The last 27 years have been a dark period.

Somalis should learn to move on and rebuild their lives and country.

This is exactly what I was talking about. You say, 'reer hargeisa lik to peddle this for recognition', I say, 'all Daarood celebrate the bombing of hargeysa'.

From all corners of Somaliland, there are those that wish to never revise the crimes of the last regime. If you saw that documentary. ...Kill all but the crow,....you will see families protesting against exhumations of their loved ones. People have moved on from the past but if you want to use couple of knuckle heads on the net or unscrupulous politicians and those that like to cash in on the crimes of ..DAAROOD... then yes, you have a point.

You are right when you say lots of clans suffered in the hand of the last regime but you cannot use that as an excuse to dismiss the savagery of your late uncle.

As far as accepting and moving on goes, you are in no position to tell people we should move on from the crimes of your uncle.
-
-
-

Reer hargeisa ought to move themselves away from the past and into the future. Crimes that happened 25 years ago shouldn't hold you back today. Using political propaganda to gain international sympathy for a secessionist agenda and using the war to push "nationhood mythology" is pathetic. All clans suffered from the last regime, its childish to benchmark who suffered more. It was war. Move on.
Crimes from my "late uncle" AUN ? The last two presidents of the north western government were loyal lackeys from my "late uncle" AUN.

Xildiiid, i find it fascinating that as apostate you have such loyalty for administration ? Whys that - This isn't Scandinavia you know.

This is a question too all: When will reer Hargeisa accept that the SNM crimes against their neighbors ? If you want to be taken seriously at least be genuine with your morality.

Just as i thought.

One thing about reer Hargeysa is that they have no history of using foreign forces. The legacy and treacherous history of your Uncles however, is known to all (from South African pilots to bomb hargeysa, Ethiopian Military to fight Hawiye, to Kenyans) and all this is done while you sing the Somalinimo card.

Am done with two face hypocrites who carry the devil's gene.

Am out.
-
-
-

[Geeljire252]

Xildiiid, i find it fascinating that as apostate you have such loyalty for administration ? Whys that - This isn't Scandinavia you know.

is he a gaal like X. playa?

[STARKAST]

Xildiiid is a self declared apostate, among many others that litter this forum, its quite sad. I don't judge ya'll though, just don't expect to be taken seriously.

jalaaludin5, those are all weak points, but hey i know its easy to get frustrated when you have no legs to stand on. By the way i hope you like my avatar.



I'll ask this again: This is a question too all: When will reer Hargeisa accept that the SNM crimes against their neighbors ? If you want to be taken seriously at least be genuine with your morality. Reconciliation goes two ways. By the way i accept their crimes on all sides.

[jalaaludin5]

Now that's just pure munaafaqnimo, knowing full well how much I hate that flag.

-
-
-

[Strategic]

SNM was an apostate movement that killed innocent civilians also.

[skywalker25]

It seems like the differences between us and them - who supported the regimes and used it to further their interests- is a huge gulf. The best solution is for us all to forget the past and go our separate ways. Lets not kid ourselves with this silly notion that we are all brothers and should be under the same house.

[gurey25]

Xildiiid is a self declared apostate, among many others that litter this forum, its quite sad. I don't judge ya'll though, just don't expect to be taken seriously.

jalaaludin5, those are all weak points, but hey i know its easy to get frustrated when you have no legs to stand on. By the way i hope you like my avatar.



I'll ask this again: This is a question too all: When will reer Hargeisa accept that the SNM crimes against their neighbors ? If you want to be taken seriously at least be genuine with your morality. Reconciliation goes two ways. By the way i accept their crimes on all sides.

What crimes?
Killing faqash is a holy duty not a crime.

[Geeljire252]

Now that's just pure munaafaqnimo, knowing full well how much I hate that flag.

-
-
-

May I ask why do you hate the flag?

[SuldaanOfSanaag]

Geeljire252 why are you against somaliland seeking to bringing those who done this to court without injecting other things but with fair-mindedness, equitableness, even-handedness, egalitarianism, impartiality, impartialness, lack of bias, objectivity, neutrality, disinterestedness, lack of prejudice, open-mindedness, like we should seek justice for the people in the south who suffered under the kacaan , if you and your like dont support this we will repeat our past mistake again. Whoever is for fairness impartialness, lack of bias, objectivity, neutrality, disinterestedness, lack of prejudice, open-mindedness, non-partisanship should support somaliland to apprehended those who committed this crime.

[Geeljire252]

Geeljire252 why are you against somaliland seeking to bringing those who done this to court without injecting other things but with fair-mindedness, equitableness, even-handedness, egalitarianism, impartiality, impartialness, lack of bias, objectivity, neutrality, disinterestedness, lack of prejudice, open-mindedness, like we should seek justice for the people in the south who suffered under the kacaan , if you and your like dont support this we will repeat our past mistake again. Whoever is for fairness impartialness, lack of bias, objectivity, neutrality, disinterestedness, lack of prejudice, open-mindedness, non-partisanship should support somaliland to apprehended those who committed this crime.

I am not against Somaliland nor bringing Kacaan criminals to justice.
I see Somaliland as my Somali brothers we share many things in common ancestory, culture, religion, language and many more. Your achievement is my achievement, a Somali achievement. Hormarka aad gaartid waa hormarka nagu, waa hormar Soomaaliyeed. I see Hargeisa and my hometown Kismaayo the same. But Wallahi the Cuqdad and hate you have for us in the south makes me sick. How can you say "we were the only victims" and "we are going to play hard ball" against other Somalis. Why would you want to repeat what happened to you on your fellow Somalis? Are they Kacaan?
What's worse is Yusuf Abdi is actually from Lascaanood which you consider within your Somaliland borders so this "let's take revenge on the south" and "play hard ball against other Somalis" mantra is absolutely absurd, he's not even from the south!
What are you teaching the next generation of Somalis that the south and other Somalis are their "enemy" and Ethiopia is "dawlad jaar ah" and "walaalo". what have we got in common with those raw meat eating savages?

Nonetheless I would love to see these thugs brought to justice just like the nazis were brought to justice after the Second World War. To achieve this goal in bringing these criminals to justice, we first must with Morgan, who headed the campaign against his own people. He committed xasuuq from Ras Kambooni to Saylac how is he even alive to this day? He should be hanged for his crimes against humanity.


But there is a difference between "bringing these criminals to justice" and blaming an entire country and its people. You can not continue to blame Somalia and other Somalis for what happened. I've tried proving to your fellow clanmates that we were all brutally targeted, they just don't get it. I, myself had family members slaughtered in cold blood by Kacaan regime soldiers and many more had to flee.
Our business in Kismaayo was ransacked and set a aflame by the same Kacaan soldiers. Why would I not love to see regime filth brought to justice?

Kacaan was a brutal regime that instead of protecting the people it was supposed to serve, it turned on them and used brute force against them. However the reality is far different from "let's bring these criminals to justice". We simply can't, many are dead including Siad barre (AUN), Gabyow(AUN) and the few that are alive (Morgan) are well protected by their clan or living abroad (Cali samatar from the chaos they created. So therefore its in the best interest for Somalis as a whole to move on and " forgive and forget".