Sunni muslims in Iran

[biko]

[quote="MAD MAC"]Well, if you adopt an all or nothing approach to religion, this is what you get. All I know is, I wouldn't want to live in Iran.[/quote]
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and i wouldnt live in america for all the chopsticks in china.

[gurey25]

[quote="MAD MAC"]Well, if you adopt an all or nothing approach to religion, this is what you get. All I know is, I wouldn't want to live in Iran.[/quote]
MAd MAc dont let the politics get ahead of you.
Iranians are light years ahead of the Saudis in civilization, and you would find any iranian city quite livable, even comfortable compared to Saudi arabia.

[Salahuddiin]

There are some more lies from shi'ah from their "hadith" books about racism, and we all know what Prophet Muhammad (scws) said about it. But here you go:

Imam Ali (ra) said: "Beware of marrying the Negroes for they are a distorted creation." (al-Kafi, fil Furoo': Book of Nikah, Chapter: Whom Are Disliked for Marriage, Narration 1)

Imam Abu Abdullah (as) also said: "Marry not from the Negroes nor the Khazar, for they have uteruses that indicate they are unfaithful." (al-Kafi, Ibid, Narration 3)

"India, Sindh and Qindh not a single one of them [from there] is intelligent." (al-Kafi, Ibid, Narration 3)

[avowedly-agnostic]

[quote] There are some more lies from shi'ah from their "hadith" books about racism... [/quote]

There is also equally hateful anti-Semitic and anti-Christian comments purportedly made by the prophet Mohammed in Sahih Bukhari. One is easily able to find religious texts supporting just about anything one wants to justify. Singling out the Shia for criticism is not only misleading, but dangerous and malevolent.

[/quote=Gurey25] Iranians are light years ahead of the Saudis in civilization, and you would find any iranian city quite livable, even comfortable compared to Saudi arabia. [quote]

I couldn't agree more. Iranians are more progressive, enlightened and indeed "light years ahead" than the Wahhabi run Saudi regime . Women can not only vote, but they can also drive freely in Iran, along with other basic rights which saudi women are denied. Can you just believe the audacity of those Iranians? They let their women drive do I hear you say? Oh heavens no! God shall verily punish them severely for giving women their basic rights!

[Google [Bot2]]

...double post

[Google [Bot2]]

Well, well, well, look what we have here! I step away for a few days and people are quoting me and referring to my comments like I’m a big shot or something.

Salahuddiin, don’t waste your time with this fraud aka law26. you could quote from shi’a sources all day to no avail. As far as he’s concerned an ideology like shiism which formally endorses racism is acceptable.

Law26 your post gave me a good laugh, I must have hit a nerve or something when I exposed you as a fraud who cuts and pastes other peoples work and presents it as their own. Absolutely pathetic. Unlike you I can understand other peoples line of reasoning and I respect their right to hold their views. Sadly I cannot afford you this courtesy because you’re nothing more than plagiarists and fraud . Why would you waste the time of Gamadiid, QansaGabeyle, Af_libaax and Saladin if you’re not going to take the time to genuinely reply to them? For the record I don’t follow x.playa’s writings nor do I know where he stands on issues. Thanks to you I now know his stance on islam. Haven’t you read the authentic sunni hadith where shaytan spoke the truth to abu hurayra. If satan can speak the truth why do you refuse the same for xplaya? As usual your arguments are always weak. I’m my view an open and clear enemy of islam is far less dangerous to islam than ppl like you who chip away at islam from the inside, mudding the lines between halal and haram, casting doubts on the authenticity bukhari and muslim and the objecting to the corruption of the shia. My “belly button” remark was a mere joke, only an intelligently bankrupt and desperate person would use this remark as a lunching pad for their attacks. The roots of all your arguments are supported with either vulgarity or an allegation of “wahabism” this is strangely reassuring because I’ve never had high expectations for you. As far as I know you’re the only person on somalinet how hails from Thailand the “sex capital” of the world. And you’re married to a Thai woman if I’m not mistaken. I could make many inferences and jokes about your particular situation here but Alhamdulilah I do have my boundaries. The optics is not good bro. On a serious note, you need to see a shrink. I would also be mad as hell if Saudis were “belly buttoning” my in laws. But Alhamduliah Somalis are not known for their whoredom. In all honesty I can’t take you too seriously, you’re traumatized and your outbursts understandable. who in their right mind would blame the demise of the ottomans on arabs first and foremost? If the Ottoman Empire was likened to an elephant than the shia safavids were chopping away at the elephants head for over 200 years while the Arab tribes were tugging away at the toe nails of an already dead elephant. I think I’ve been too generous in affording you a reply.

Mowhawk don’t fall for weak baseless agreements. If denouncing shiism makes a person a wahabi or intolerant; then I’ll have you know that the founders of all four sunni madhabs have rejected the shi’a! Does this make them wahabi or intolerant? Or are they merely speaking the truth? I’ve never seen such baseless rhetoric being present as accepted norm. We know a man by the truth and not the truth by a man. At the end of the day and after the name calling, truth stands clear from falsehood. An earlier consensus on the corruption of the sha’i creed cannot be revoked with calls for tolerance and acceptance

“Imam Ahmad said: If you see a man mentioning one of the companions of the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) in a bad way, then call his Islam into question.”

“Imam Abu Hanifah used to repeat the following statement about the raafidi Shia; "Whoever doubts whether they are disbelievers has himself committed disbelief."

“Imam Malik: Once when asked about the raafidi Shia, Imam Malik said; "Do not speak to them or narrate from them, for surely they are liars." During one of Imam Malik's classes, it was mentioned that the raafidi Shia curse the sahaba. Imam Malik recited the verse, "Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah and those with him are harsh with the disbelievers and gentle among themselves. So that the disbelievers may become enraged with them." (48:29) He then said, "Whoever becomes enraged when the sahaba are mentioned is the one about whom the verse speaks." (: i.e disbelievers) (Tafseer al-Qurtubi)”



Mowhawk this message of tolerance and leniency you advocate is truly misguided. You keep saying not all shia hate the sahaba ! And pray tell how did you come to this conclusion? You may not have heard them insult them but this does not mean that they don’t hate them. I don’t think it is even possible to be a shia and think positively of the sahaba? How could they like the sahaba mowhowk? Logic demands it and their books testify to this inevitable conclusion (excluding the ziadi shia). Are you asking us to be irrational? Who among the muslim scholars have preceded you in your views or is this something from your pocket? We shouldn’t even be debating this as sunnis (im assuming you’re a sunni). Would you be tolerant towards a person who called your mother a whore? I would hope not bro. who are you to tell us not to judge these slanderous liars?

[Mowhawk]

JB

Salaam C. bro.

You seem to either misunderstand the intention of my post, or, may I ask, if you will support an American and Israeli led strike against Iran? Definitely most of the so-called Sunni regimes from Egypt, Saudi to Pakistan who are under the thumps of the United States would support such a strike? Who will you support that kind of a scenario?

I live in Australia and there are many different faiths, Muslims and others. Like in every other western country, there are powerful sections who are anti Muslim and anti-religion in nature. I met and discussed this issue with so many Shias, some were offensive and most (I personally met) believed in mostly the same fundamentals and respected the Rightly guided Caliphs. In your view, are you equating them with the above group, or are they worse than them? I regard them as Muslims, and I'm in no way to judge them. I'm just sick and tired of Muslim divisiveness and in particular in the Middle East where they sold their soul to the devil. Nothing more, nothing less. We may disagree on that point.

I know you have a strong different view of this Sunni versus Shias, and may I ask you what is your view of Maawiyah and his brother Yazid? If I'm not wrong, I heard that they were Sunni leaders who blamed the death of caliph Othman r.a on Caliph Ali r.a.?

Sunni/Shia political history is a messy one, and it is better if we can find a middle way because of the imminent dangers that Muslims as a whole face today. That is why intolerance and hatred towards each other is destroying all Muslims. Anyway, who cares about it when every single Sunni leader in the Middle East is doing a lap dance for the American administration. I rather side with the Iranians than with the Americans and the Israelis, and that was my point in this post.

I strongly believe that if the scholars you cited were alive today, they would have reached similar logical conclusion, and wondered if those Sunni countries (American lackeys) were really what they have envissioned.

Allahu yaclam.

[The rebel]

[quote]what is your view of Maawiyah and his brother Yazid?[/quote]

You mean his son

[Mowhawk]

[quote="The rebel"][quote]what is your view of Maawiyah and his brother Yazid?[/quote]

You mean his son [/quote]

Rebel

Yes Bro, and thanks for the correction. You are an eduacted Arab Muslim brother, and what is your take on this issue? I want to read as many different opinions as possible.

Thanks in advance.

[avowedly-agnostic]

Whilst we're on the subject of the Shia and Iran, it's worth mentioning that never has Iran mounted an attack on its Sunni neighbors; the same however can't be said for Sunni states against Iran.

As is well-documented, following the 1979 Iranian Islamic revolution, Iraq (then ruled by Saddam Hussien) with the backing and support of the US, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and other Gulf states in a war of aggression invaded Iran in a bid to crush the newly born Islamic revolution.

In this unnecessary war initiated by Iraq, an estimated 1 million Muslims died. The Iran-Iraq war was of course most notable for the use of chemical and biological agents by the Iraqi side against Iranian infantry- sometimes even against the Iranian civilian population. The UN Secretary-General in a report to the UN Security Council assigned blame and responsibility for the war on Iraq, and condemned it as "an aggression” against Iran.

It seems that time and again the Shia have been on the receiving end of a continuous campaign of Sunni violence, intimidation and aggression; be it in Pakistan where they're regularly mowed down as they perform Friday prayers, in Iraq where they're blown into smithereens whilst celebrating one religious festival or another, or when they're invaded by a Sunni state attempting to brutally subjugate them.

What's most praiseworthy and deserving of applause is the manner in which the Shia community has on the whole, and by and large displayed a great sense of restraint in the face of the murderous campaign directed against them by Wahhabi sections of the Sunni community. If the Shia community (particularly in Iraq where they represent a majority) weren't led by wise individuals such as Grand Ayatollah Ali Sistani and others, who've until now ordered shias to refrain from attacking Sunnis, one would've witnessed the slaughter of many a Sunni.

If only Sunnis displayed the same commendable traits as the Shia who are (on the whole) the victims of Wahhabi extremism, the Muslim world today would be a more peaceful and harmonious place.

[The rebel]

Thank you brother Mowhawk,

I've opinion on the issue and this partucular topic is my expert point academically. i'am not get use to rude people. here some people are extremly rude and when i see rude comment i go shy and leave

Insha-Allah I will comment the topic but i really dislike personal attack and name calling. That is the reason i don't take part most of good topics around here. Even islamistis here are mastred name calling business. i'm observer for now untill i know whom i engage debate with and whom i should avoid.

Either way i will comment later on, just for you

[gurey25]

All i know is that one Mucawiya bin abi Sufyan is worth more than all the leaders of the muslim countries from the 16th century onwards.

[Mowhawk]

[quote="gurey25"]All i know is that one Mucawiya bin abi Sufyan is worth more than all the leaders of the muslim countries from the 16th century onwards.[/quote]

gurey

Salaam C. bro.

You are correct that Mucawiya rahimul Allah built a vast Islamic empire that streched from Syria to India, North Africa and to Spain. He started a new system of Islamic governance by the introduction of a hereditary rule and ran his administration with a system that resembled secular laws in the vast areas that was under his control. Islamic civilisation reached its zenith during his period. Yes, no modern Muslim leader after the 16th Century can match his achievements.

But what I was interested is the root causes of the split, and the degree of the tension between him and Caliph Ali r.a.

I heard Sunni brothers claiming that his son Yazid wasn't a "righteous leader", and what is your take on him too?

Rebel

Salaam again.

Many here (including me) are upset because of the presence of several characters who in the past made a habit of smearing and villifying Islam and our prophet. So, that relegated to any positive discussion about Islam, or the history of Muslims and their current affairs to the dustbin. I used to debate with those characters, but I found out to be a waste of time, as they were only interested in the defaming game, so I refrained from participating in their debates. It is not my character to insult people, and I just ignore the hostilities and name calling of both groups, as the aim is to solicit a negative reaction and incite others. There is no positive outcome from this kind of a dialogue. I know you are a Muslim and don't let a human get in your way to express your views. I may agree with you in certain of your views, and disagree with others, and that is human nature and it was a common thing among Muslim scholars.

I have been called from kaafir pet, munaafuq to a hypocrite by certain brothers, and don't worry about them. Be your own man.

Thanks for expressing confidence in me, and I'm looking forward to read your post.

[The Law26]

JB

You joke about ladies belly button while you oblige to Bin Baz's demand of niqaab for Muslim women. Pity, it is only for Saudi Arab women while black Saudi women are not required because he deemed them their awra to be less attractive than an Arab woman. You cant get a lower house nigger than this. I worked in Thailand and saw 10,000's of Saudi men come every given week for sex tourism, while their wives, sisters and mums are locked inside their homes. Thai Muslims due to the oppression of prime mininster Thaksin asked all Muslims to boycott Thailand, and the Saudi men with their Khliji brothers refused and increased their volume of sex male tourists seeking sexual pleasures. Me and my wife (who is a Morrocan background) with other Muslims worked with these communities and spearheaded the boycot till we attracted the attention of the authourites with the help of your masters. Where do you live? In Canada?

If you are not a true believer of Wahabi revissionism of Islamic history, why do you shy away telling who was Lawrence of Arabia? Do you know he was gay and had a wahabi lover?

Mohawk

Don't waste your breath on these k-9's who take their orders from wahabi Imams associated with the corrupt and un-Islamic Saudi regime and their bedfellows like Bin Baz and Al-Sheikh. Without them, Israel wouldn't have existed today. Let the Iranians nuke them. To them, you and other non-wahabi Muslims are less of a Muslim. Ariel Sharon and the White House are their true masters and honoured them to be the chosen sect.

[The rebel]

Law26,

You are one of very few people in this board can make a point without offending others. Please do not let them drag you to their level. You made very valid points in above post. Yes as Oil Arabs, some of us use money to spread their political agenda using Islam. Some Muslims including Somalis fell for that and made our rulers interests, and Arabs cultures= Islam. Which is very wrong. I know what you are talking about. I've been into many Arab countries and once you say you are from "KSA, Kuwait, UAE, ETC.." You see how people have bad impression about us. However, not all of us rude and sex maniac. We have people against all this corruption in the name of Islam. Our kings and crown princes want to keep their chairs, how else they could do if they do not use Islam? Have you read King Abdul Aziiz’s movement to unite the Arab peninsula under his name? Do you how people passed as Kufars and mushriks to justified their murder?
"
Those people supporting them (none Arabs) need to read the history and learn from it.


Remember:

"قَوْله تَعَالَى " يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا كُونُوا قَوَّامِينَ لِلَّهِ شُهَدَاءَ بِالْقِسْطِ وَلَا يَجْرِمَنَّكُمْ شَنَآنُ قَوْمٍ عَلَى أَلَّا تَعْدِلُوا اعْدِلُوا هُوَ أَقْرَبُ لِلتَّقْوَى وَاتَّقُوا اللَّهَ إِنَّ اللَّهَ خَبِيرٌ بِمَا تَعْمَلُونَ


Mowhawk,

I don't know where to start, I lost the track. Please tell me which point you want to comment. They are talking many topics here.