Somalia's Political Future: express your views

[Cali_Gaab]

Twisted....that's because it's an man made law, implementing those is like saying those laws are more suitable than Allah's law.

[sadeboi]

Sharia law is the most truest form of democracy.

Their democracy was founded by men who had slaves and did not care for anyone but themselves and their wealth.

[*jr]

[quote="Spookie"]Support the TFG and you got Ethiopia taking over. Support the UIC appearing too religious and you got the U.S on your door-steps. Either way you doomed so here is my plan...

First, the removal of all habashi bastards from Somalia.

Second, the beheading of every warlord. (no jail won't work, their mindset is too destructive and they can influence others to fight in their cause)

Third, build a clan based committee where every clan can pick one person to represent them. This committee can construct a new constitution and parliament.

Fourth, hold elections where the people vote. (we know what happened last time when the parliament tried to old elections)

Fifth, a new plan to build the country's economy by the people themselves just like Japan did after WWII.[/quote]

This hawiye bastard thinks he's smart! War waxaad sheegtay waxba kama socdaan! Waxa aad soo qortay waxba kama jiraan. Walle, xitaa hooyadaa sida ay u cid'o marka la saarto wax uma loodid....dumb mother'foker

[Gedo_Boy]

Spookie,

I just meant that Japan had ability to produce then sell....Somalis might be good in business, but they produce nothing......it takes something to make something.

If you watched that movie 'The Last Samurai' (which in that movie was an Anglo-Saxon ironically ), those mid to late 1800s is when Japan actually made a major push to learn & modernize. By WW2 they had the know-how and were pretty advanced.

Somalis maybe are in that same period as the Japanese were.......they have to develop basic industrial capacity and things will go there.

But Somalis can only get so far being middle men b/c there is no wealth in the country.....so you could sell commodities in Somalia, make 5-10% off the top but if people can't afford anything you sell then 5-10% of zero is zero.

The people who control industry & manufacturing control economy....that's why Somalis need to learn, learn, and learn. Whether it's academic, vocation, technical, business skills......whatever.

[Spookie]

Gedo - I completely agree with you but Somalis gotta start somewhere even if they can't produce that much. As along as its doors open for trade no matter how small, it will mean the creation of wealth. Trade literally creates wealth out of thin air. There has be something Somalis specialize in. All you need is the promises of future gold to get investors to your doorsteps.


Jr - get off my nuts would you and stop following me into every thread. I find it creepy and unmanly.

[AbdiWahab252]

Nolol Cusub:

I support position no. 2.

There has to be a three prong post political invasion policy:

1. Target selection of Collaborators of the occupation and punishing them severely based on their level of participation: the more senior the rank and involvement the harder the punishment. Low level officials and those with no direct involvement in crimes should be spared.

2. Marginalization of the UIC/Warlords/TFG characters - There is a need for new faces and new ideas. It is unfair to keep bringing same characters responsible for Somalia's mess to fix it.

3. Devolving Power from a Tribal structure into nontribal ones be they regional, party, society types etc. For far too long, the tribe has been exploited and abused by different political animals who it to launch their careers.

Those are my 3 cents.

[*jr]

[quote="AbdiWahab252"]Nolol Cusub:

I support position no. 2.

There has to be a three prong post political invasion policy:

1. Target selection of Collaborators of the occupation and punishing them severely based on their level of participation: the more senior the rank and involvement the harder the punishment. Low level officials and those with no direct involvement in crimes should be spared.

2. Marginalization of the UIC/Warlords/TFG characters - There is a need for new faces and new ideas. It is unfair to keep bringing same characters responsible for Somalia's mess to fix it.

3. Devolving Power from a Tribal structure into nontribal ones be they regional, party, society types etc. For far too long, the tribe has been exploited and abused by different political animals who it to launch their careers.

Those are my 3 cents.[/quote]


darn! A/W hearsay reads like cheap Chinese employment contract....focking cheap Hawiye

[Diyeeshaha_Tolka]

jr....adiga waxaa ku haya cudur la yiraahdo HAWIYE NECEEB dawadiisuna way adagtahay sida lagu helo..

this topic has nothing to do with qabiil and no one is mentioning any qabiil name execept u,,

waxaan u malaynayaa hadii lagu yiraahdo janada hawiye ayaa ku jira waxaa dooran leheed naarta ,,neceebkaada heerka uu gaarsiinsanyahay awgeed..

[Nolol cusub]

Across the board, excellent points.


First, we all agree the removal of enemy forces from Somali soil and the punishment of traitors according to level of commitment.

Second, brushing aside the extreme end of Somali political groups, we all agree that at this juncture in Somali history there are two healthy, broad, homegrown Somali political forces.


1. Legitimate and traditional clan representatives who are skeptical about the sincerity of a top down religious movement and want to retain their clan’s right to represent their land. (bottom up clan interest supporters)


2. Legitimate religio-political movement that wants to institute an Islamic state in Somalia: espouse different means but same end. (top down Islamic state supporter)



Third, if the fringe groups in Somali politics - traitors, warlords, collaborators, careerist, imperialist, - want to hijack a healthy and stable Somali political development they would naturally put a wedge between these two movement. We would be encouraged to participate in a zero sum game. The fringe groups in Somali politics would be subsidized and let loose.



A fair characterization of important political positions?


If yes, then we have to recognize the importance of making concession to the other side both in principle since the two groups have legitimate claims and on the ground of prudence in order to minimize the influence of fringe groups.



For the rest the discussion let us group ourselves based on views expressed and what these views entail.



A top down Islamic state supporters : Shirib, Sedeboi, Af-libaax

“Secularim means that mans laws are the highest law of the land and Allah law is inferior. I am 100% against this. We need educated religous men to lead us if not the Executive, and Legislative branches atleast the Judicial branch should be entirely Islamic Sharia and they should hold more power then the two other branches of government.”


A bottom up clan interest supporters: Abdiwahab, Luq ganaane, Spokie


“Second, the beheading of every warlord. (no jail won't work, their mindset is too destructive and they can influence others to fight in their cause)

Third, build a clan based committee where every clan can pick one person to represent them. This committee can construct a new constitution and parliament.

Fourth, hold elections where the people vote. (we know what happened last time when the parliament tried to hold elections)




Can each group think of an area where they can make concession? Can each group think of how would they go about the business of strengthening Somali interests without taking into consideration what the other group wants to achieve?




NC

[Twisted_Logic]

[quote="AbdiWahab252"]Nolol Cusub:

I support position no. 2.

There has to be a three prong post political invasion policy:

1. Target selection of Collaborators of the occupation and punishing them severely based on their level of participation: the more senior the rank and involvement the harder the punishment. Low level officials and those with no direct involvement in crimes should be spared.

2. Marginalization of the UIC/Warlords/TFG characters - There is a need for new faces and new ideas. It is unfair to keep bringing same characters responsible for Somalia's mess to fix it.

3. Devolving Power from a Tribal structure into nontribal ones be they regional, party, society types etc. For far too long, the tribe has been exploited and abused by different political animals who it to launch their careers.

Those are my 3 cents.[/quote]


I find point 1 very amusing

[AbdiWahab252]

Twisted Logic:

Remember the French revolution, they were chopping off the heads of the Cooks, Butlers and small admin staff.

Nolol Cusub:

I find that very few individuals have moral authority to represent an entire clan. Since the 1950s, there has been a strong marginalization of the traditional leadership by the Central government and politicians seeking power. Both groups saw that the traditional leadership as a competing faction that had the potential to draw a lot of support among Somalis.

[Shirib]

[quote="Nolol cusub"]Across the board, excellent points.


First, we all agree the removal of enemy forces from Somali soil and the punishment of traitors according to level of commitment.

Second, brushing aside the extreme end of Somali political groups, we all agree that at this juncture in Somali history there are two healthy, broad, homegrown Somali political forces.


1. Legitimate and traditional clan representatives who are skeptical about the sincerity of a top down religious movement and want to retain their clan’s right to represent their land. (bottom up clan interest supporters)


2. Legitimate religio-political movement that wants to institute an Islamic state in Somalia: espouse different means but same end. (top down Islamic state supporter)



Third, if the fringe groups in Somali politics - traitors, warlords, collaborators, careerist, imperialist, - want to hijack a healthy and stable Somali political development they would naturally put a wedge between these two movement. We would be encouraged to participate in a zero sum game. The fringe groups in Somali politics would be subsidized and let loose.



A fair characterization of important political positions?


If yes, then we have to recognize the importance of making concession to the other side both in principle since the two groups have legitimate claims and on the ground of prudence in order to minimize the influence of fringe groups.



For the rest the discussion let us group ourselves based on views expressed and what these views entail.



A top down Islamic state supporters : Shirib, Sedeboi, Af-libaax

“Secularim means that mans laws are the highest law of the land and Allah law is inferior. I am 100% against this. We need educated religous men to lead us if not the Executive, and Legislative branches atleast the Judicial branch should be entirely Islamic Sharia and they should hold more power then the two other branches of government.”


A bottom up clan interest supporters: Abdiwahab, Luq ganaane, Spokie


“Second, the beheading of every warlord. (no jail won't work, their mindset is too destructive and they can influence others to fight in their cause)

Third, build a clan based committee where every clan can pick one person to represent them. This committee can construct a new constitution and parliament.

Fourth, hold elections where the people vote. (we know what happened last time when the parliament tried to hold elections)




Can each group think of an area where they can make concession? Can each group think of how would they go about the business of strengthening Somali interests without taking into consideration what the other group wants to achieve?




NC[/quote]


For now I am willing to accept anything Somali that will bring peace.

But I don't see how clans and Islamic Sharia can mix. Once we start saying this clans wadaads or that clans wadaads everything is dead and we are back in jahaliya again.

With Islamic sharia we can't look at the leaders themselves (as in clans) but are they going by what is in the Quran and Sunnah.

[Twisted_Logic]

[quote="AbdiWahab252"]Twisted Logic:

Remember the French revolution, they were chopping off the heads of the Cooks, Butlers and small admin staff.

Nolol Cusub:

I find that very few individuals have moral authority to represent an entire clan. Since the 1950s, there has been a strong marginalization of the traditional leadership by the Central government and politicians seeking power. Both groups saw that the traditional leadership as a competing faction that had the potential to draw a lot of support among Somalis.[/quote]


From checkpoints to Maxkamat, now it is the guillotine eh?

[Nolol cusub]

Critical points made. Here Shirib and Abdiwahab contribute two important insights.


For Shirib, or any other supporter of a top down Islamic movement, is not clear how the demands of bottom up clan interests would be reconciled with the movement’s Islamic revolution.


“For now I am willing to accept anything in Somalia that will bring peace.

But I don't see how clans and Islamic Sharia can mix. Once we start saying this clans wadaads or that clans wadaads everything is dead and we are back in jahaliya again.

With Islamic sharia we can't look at the leaders themselves (as in clans) but are they going by what is in the Quran and Sunnah.”



For Abdiwahab, the bottom up clan interest base has been eroded by a half century top down political assault. Therefore, strengthening and modernizing the bottom up clan interest base becomes the number one priority for its supporters

“I find that very few individuals have moral authority to represent an entire clan. Since the 1950s, there has been a strong marginalization of the traditional leadership by the Central government and politicians seeking power.”


Excellent!


Here, I want to ask those who subscribe the strengthening and modernization of bottom up clan interest base to come up with ideas that help you reach your goal. I want Spokie and Somaliweyn to take the lead.

This is important since the ideas you come up with and the demands you make for your group would help the other side clear their assumption about you.




NC.

[Somaliweyn]

''I want to ask those who subscribe the strengthening and modernization of bottom up clan interest base to come up with ideas that help you reach your goal.''

The most important thing we should do in order to achieve the above aim is to exchange ideas/views on the group's interest with members of the own group. Communication should be priority nr1, we should quite with the habit of following warlords/opportunists/faction leaders etc who decide the policy of the group without consulting with the people. After a serious examination of the group's interest, it should not become difficult to understand how the current actors in Somalia have kept their respective groups in a deadlock in the past 16 years, which had its impact on Somalia in general.

So, the severance of the links between the current actors in Somalia and their respective groups is the pre-requisite in strengthening and modernizing the clan interest base. And this requires re-thinking and re-prioritizing the group's interest.

Since Somalia and its society is nothing more then the summ of the different groups and their territories, I think one should start with one's own group, since we can only change Somalia for the better on this way. Ofcourse, intelligent young minds should take this responsibility since the older generation has failed in this.