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     | Monday, October 30, 2000 - 01:00 am former guest, Asad Dear brothers I think we extend too much hospitality to the non muslims in this site.Not that i wish them any harm.I just do not want to create a envvironment for them to weave their deceit, i think us getting drawn into seprate arguemnest with them is futile, here is why i have come to this conclusion. 1. They have no interest in Islam, which makes me wonder like formerguest why they come here. 2.They have no intention of answering our questions while we ardually seek to answer their's, whch makes me doubt the sincerity of their . For example Galool has the express purpose of finding amusment. Mad mac has an tendancy to present his opinions as facts 3. when they do answer they are wholey incoherant, both Mad mac and galool 4. We shall be questioned on the day of Judgment i imagine, what we did with our time, shall we answer we sought to argue with people intent on disbeliveing? 5. how bout we set down sum guidelines, if they wish to ask questions we shall answer them, if we wish to ask questions.THEY SHOULD ANSWER THEM TOO. the person who sees themselve best fit to answer the specific, i repeat specific questions, may then ask a question in return,once they have answered it. then in a orderely mannor we may all gain knowldge, instead of all digressing I shall start. here are my specific qustions. 1. How is Galool a "free thinker", when his thought are highly unorginal? and common to all disbelivers, how more so is he a free thinker, if as he contends most somalis are ..secular?. Are you both in joint conclusion, asserting each that either a) me asad and formerguest are either indocrinated or hypocrites and galool isn't. If so, how did you arrive to this conclusion on what evidence and please show us, and explain. The time for wild accusations is gone. 2. Mad mac you have yet to retract your statement about the Christain missonaries, am i to take it that your silence means you have no clue what you are talking about?, i will pose a question relating to your somwhat gleeful post, having found compainship in disbelief Exactly how is Islam and Clintons freemarkeetering related.and remember Mad i said exactly so do not go off on a tangent about some thing or another. and exactly how is Islam and the spread of it related to the Christian missonaries. Please, please have at least basic knowledge of papal decrees before you begin to answer this question, or last chance retract it, it really is okay to say i got overexicted at the sight of Galools messages and venom splurted out.. I know you have a dislike for in depth anaylsis, unfornutaly i have a dislike for argumentative, ill thought out posts inshallah we shall see who will outclass who, with Allah (swt) on our side, we have nothing to fear, the gamut has been thrown down, speak up, non-belivers if you have confidence in your thoughts, the hollowness of your posts will verebrate and strike fear in your hearts!. Let us see who can articulate, if you are so learned, let the games begin! waslaam
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| | Monday, October 30, 2000 - 12:07 pm Common Is that really you? Are you panicking at the sight of your mentor FG losing the argument and sending his hapless minions to defend him? Okay Common, here is the deal. I have no interest in upsetting you or anyone else. If my opinions are causing you or FG any discomfort, I will stop my postings immediately. Just say so. I will only debate with people who are prepared to be challenged on the very core of their ideas, opinions and believes. I have no intention of causing anguish(amusement? yes!) to anyone, particularly not one so young(please don't take this to be patronising, it is not meant to be). Looking forward to hearing from you.
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| | Monday, October 30, 2000 - 04:44 pm "I will only debate with people who are prepared to be challenged on the very core of their ideas, opinions and believes." i'm here to be challenged, but i would also like to challenge you. "Looking forward to hearing from you." i'm too looking forward to hearing from you. i'll promise, it will not be any anguish from my part, but amusements too. so let's do compareative beliefs (yours and mine), akay, galool? ;-) so, galool, can you tell me the very core of your ideas, opinions and bleiefs too, please? ;-). mine is islam and i'm a muslim. how about you?;-)
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| | Monday, October 30, 2000 - 11:55 pm Common. My brother. I agree with you in all you said. "I think we extend too much hospitality to the non muslims in this site." Always bro. But they abuse it. Instead of questions, they try to appear educated in islamic matters. I don't know if it is shame on their part that they don't understand islam. I have met many of them on the cyper space. Firstly, they attack islam claiming they know what they are saying. In the end, after questions and exposure, they complain about the Quran being smart and eloquent and add that it is human words. Some of them go far in insult and extend it to the being of ALLAH or our prophet. Bro common: We have to answer their questions for a lot of reasons: 1- Teenagers and grown ups who visit the net are most likely to be less educated in islam. So they might need answers to the questions presented by the atheists, polytheist christians, or other disbelievers. 2- If we give sound answers to their questions which are always illogical and insincere at best, muslims will increase faith(Iman) in their faith. We can't let them write simply and not challenge them. Like you said, IT WOULD BE NICE IF THOSE USURPERS WOULD SUPPORT THEIR PART OF THE ARGUMENT. These people are both envious and jealous about the Quran. Since they don't beleive in it, they like to legitimize their confusion by attacking the Quran and try to make it less reasonable than their satanic deeds and thoughts. That is what early Kuffaars did: " And those who disbelieve say: "Listen not to this Quran, and make noise in the midst of its( recitation) THAT YOU MAY OVERCOME" 41:26 That is their intentions. Create all the diatribe you can, say all the incoherent jumbles to achieve your goals is their purpose. All Kuffaars think alike and talk alike. It doesn't matter if they are in this day and age or thousands of years back. The devil was made their companion in this life so they see not and hear not BUT THE SAME. "And we have assinged them(devils) intimate companions(in this world), who have made fair-seeming to them, what was before them (evil deeds which they were doing in the present worldly life and disbelief in the reckoning and the resurrection etc.) and what was behind them (denial of the matters in the coming life of the hereafter as regards punishments or rewards etc.). And the word (i.e. the torment) is justified against them as it was justified against those who were among the previous generations of jinns and men that had passed away before them. INDEED THEY WERE(ALL) LOSERS." 41:21 They are always losers. Don't worry bro that these guys will do harm to anybody. They are deceiving themselves only. At the end of the day, we have lost nothing but gained the blessings of allah and share with those disbelievers all life has to offer. Plus, who lives in uncertainty?.
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| | Tuesday, October 31, 2000 - 01:58 am asad & formerguest, I recently discovered this site. I was trying to figure out how people here tend to think. You, guys have no idea, how i got impressed by both of you. May Allah Bless you. Ps: i apologize if i acted weird towards both of you. ur sis in Islam.
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| | Tuesday, October 31, 2000 - 03:10 am Common Ahhhhh, dude, what are you talking about?? When did I post anything about Christian missionaries. I never remember bringing them up at all. On accasion someone else will ramble on about how Christian missionaries come to Somalia pretending to help and wanting really to convert people, but this could hardly apply to me. What would I convert them to, Macism????
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| | Tuesday, October 31, 2000 - 06:09 am Mad mac. Answer the question. Half way down the page in the "somali jews" page you said, you found a "another problem in Islam". That its "practioners shove it down your throat", they act like christain missionarys-only worse" You also compared it to clinton and his tour of africa. please answer both questions
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| | Tuesday, October 31, 2000 - 06:14 am HAKIMA. There is nothing wrong in the way you reacted. I like girls and ladies who are eloquent in their religion. I get impressed by them too. Feel no obstacle in expressing your thoughts.
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| | Tuesday, October 31, 2000 - 06:25 am Galool. I am certainly not panicking am i one of the "hapless minions"?. Is that why you never manage to respond to my critisms, shall i post under former guest, which you obviously enjoy "comabting"with ...my age spoils some of the fun? am not upset by your opinions, but your lack of opinions Dear galool, i do appreciate your concerns about my age, they are endearing, but lets not overdo it, i can handle myself.while i may not be hercules I seen tougher things than harsh words on my P.C You mention debate?.. how have you engaged in debate galool?. What has upset me is your behavoiur which is anti academic and anti Islamic,what basis do you leave for debate.Mad mac challenges the cores of my belief and ideas daily.You are involved in something else, although mad mac would it seems enjoy a more unrestrained, hissing approach by his message to you.like Asad mentions, we have no idea what you talking about,or what you belive in your like a cat sratching a lion and purring off into the distance self satisfied, if you wanna debate brother that is fine, don't lurk in the dark, come on out.Some people recognise the light but can't handle the glare. (that could possibly include you too mad mac) hakima. me and you both sister..manshaallah they are both very cool. May Allah (swt) accept your prayers for them
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| | Tuesday, October 31, 2000 - 08:47 am Madmac Galool Common Formerguest Asad(sometimes) Waan nacey doodooda iyo waxay soo qoraan. Faan faan iyo i arkaay bay wax u soo qoraan. Daraadood baan isa dhaafayaa aqriska Forum kan. Kulli kama badna hal ilaa labo qof, oo isku guri ku nool. Naga taga, oo na dhaaafa.
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| | Tuesday, October 31, 2000 - 08:51 am Common I like that "hissing approach". I definately can be a sarcasitic son of a bitch. OK, now I know what your talking about. Our charming president has said on occassion that we want to mold the world in our image. To which I responded what makes him think the world wants to be remade in our image? Christian missionaries are also possessed with this sense of divine mission. Again, trying to convince people that they have some special knowledge that no one else (except others of their particular sect) possesses. Well, with Islam we see the same thing. People possessed of the "truth" while everyone else is either evil at worst or stupid at best´. That's what I was talking about.
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| | Tuesday, October 31, 2000 - 09:00 am "Asad(sometimes)" sometimes? "Daraadood baan isa dhaafayaa aqriska Forum kan." taas ma xuma. anigaba forums ka waxayaa laha badan kood lagu soo qoro ma aqristo. waxaan kaliya oo aqriyaa waxa halkaan lagu soo qoro. "Naga taga, oo na dhaaafa." taas lagaa ma yeelin. maxaayeeley, waa amar aad bixinaysid. sidii aad sheegtey wanaagsan oo aad tiri: "Daraadood baan isa dhaafayaa aqriska Forum kan." ;-) "Kulli kama badna hal ilaa labo qof, oo isku guri ku nool." maxaa ka wadaa isku guri ku nool? ;-) "Waan nacey doodooda iyo waxay soo qoraan." anigaba ma jelaysan karo waxyaabaha qaarkood oo halkan lagu soo qoro. ;-) "Faan faan iyo i arkaay bay wax u soo qoraan." cid i argtey oo sidan u ekahay taqaan oo halkaan wax ku soo qora ama aqriya ma garanaayo, sidaas daraadeed, faan faan haddii uu jiro yaan wax uga sab sabanaayaa? ;-)
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| | Tuesday, October 31, 2000 - 09:10 am "Again, trying to convince people that they have some special knowledge that no one else (except others of their particular sect) possesses." the knowledge we have is in the Qu'ran. i'm not here to convince to you this. the Qu'ran speaks for itself. if i'm here to convince you that, then you are here to convince me the knowledge in the Qur'an is not special. i'm just pointing out your descrepencies about the Qur'an. "Well, with Islam we see the same thing. People possessed of the "truth" while everyone else is either evil at worst or stupid at best´. That's what I was talking about." hey, do not complain to us your frustration----do not complain to Allah either. Allah says in the Qur'an accept islam as being the truth, the only truth He will accept. if you do not accept this, do not cry like baby. Allah says in the Qur'an----He will not accept any other beliefs other than the true belief in Islam. ;-)
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| | Tuesday, October 31, 2000 - 09:22 am "Our charming president has said on occassion that we want to mold the world in our image. To which I responded what makes him think the world wants to be remade in our image?" i can ask the same question. what makes mad mac think the somalis want mad mac to *remade* or to rebuit their country? ;-)
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| | Tuesday, October 31, 2000 - 09:24 am "Our charming president has said on occassion that we want to mold the world in our image. To which I responded what makes him think the world wants to be remade in our image?" i can ask the same question. what makes mad mac think the somalis want mad mac to *remade* or to rebuit their country? ;-). oh! i forgot, God told mad mac to do that. ;-)
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| | Tuesday, October 31, 2000 - 09:59 am Common Nice to see you rejuvenated and firing on all cylenders again. I was worried about you for a minute. Ok let me be serious for a change. You said I don't debate and you don't know what I stand for. You surely you don't mean that! This is what I believe in: I believe in humanity. People are people whatever their creed race or religion. I believe in freedom of thought. I refuse any form of philosophy(and that includes religions) that dictates what should or should not believe in. I believe that Somali people are essentially secular. I provided ample evidence for that assertion Now let me tell you what I DON'T believe in. I don't believe that God has directly or indirectly ever spoke with anyone on this planet. And that was what the gist of our discussion was on, over the last few days unless you havn't noticed. I made it absolutely clear, and provided evidence, and that any reasonable human being who reads the Quran will come to the same conclusion. Clear enough for you? Now let the debate commence.
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| | Tuesday, October 31, 2000 - 10:50 am Galool Okay to quote mad mac "there is some good meat here" You belive in humanity, how pleasantly vague, but a starting place none the less. People are people no matter the creed, yarn yarn bore bore, UN speak.we hold these truths to be self evident, what about the ommsions are they self evident too? which people are "people" ?what makes a person, limbs ,form?, mind?. How is this humanity distingueshed from the animal kingdom?.. i think we may take a few diversions but inevitabley we shall come to actions.. that is when things (for you ) will really proably start taking a turn for the worse. Tell me why are you here?. People who believe in humanity often say for the evolution of mankind?.. to add something to this world, to progress."if life is a canvass, don't hesitate to print your purpose" etc etc. Tell me how will humans evolve, can we break certain laws that exist today?, in the future will we fly?.. or are we restricted within certain laws which we cannot break.I am sorry i know this is metaphycis but Allah is i beileve supreme over all where did this humanity come from,the sea monkeys? are this questions not relevant?if they are irreleavnat why are they irelevant? where is freedom of thought?, you really aren't living the inheritance of some form of philsohy?, lets me smart people here. How did you type your thoughts on to this page, was that freedom of thought? Somali people are essentail secular, who arging with you here?.. how would i know whats in their hearts, some act pretty secular i will give you that, your statiscts 95% have been plucked out of the sky..or maybe that where freedom of thought is.. in lies? You don't belive that God has directly or inderctly communicated with man.. so if Allah exists you belive he would not have communicated with man.. surely i was not craeted for some foolish purpose. If God did not communicate with man. Did man make God?..and not the other way round?. If so did man make the idea that man made God?, the last one we have some very clear ideas too of course he did. If So why exchange one man made idea for another?. Because we have progressed, what is the pointbi might as well kill myself now, probably nothing i know is legitimate, it will rubbished in say 100 years,w hat basis for life is that, how is that humanity?. i don't like this humaity of yours, convince me of it. Sahib the freedom of thought idea, i can have so much fun with, but seeing as i am a muslim i will restrain myself, walaahi i am holding back the laughter.Just tell me this, do you refuse your consious? that tells you what to belive in and what not to belive in?, where does your councious obtain its thoughts, do you live in a vacummn or on earth with me? I agree we are both reasonable human beings, clear of social and cultural debts, let the debate begin, in theory if we are both reasonable human beings, we should both become humanists or both become muslims.. ahh but this contracts your freedom of thought idea, therefore one of us cannot be a reasonable human being?. If they are not willing to accept any dicated ideas, how bout , ideas that fall of a train, ideas in fortune cookies, ideas on the side of a bus?. You didn't make anything absoutly clear and you didn't provide any evidence. I can speak to you in a purely material sense, with out any mention of the spritual and convince a reasonable person of Islam, thats in the Quran, men who contemplate their creator on their standing sitting and lying down. Tell me i am reday, are you standing sitting or lying down.I would suggest standing, if you don't stand for anything you, fall for everything. the debate has commenced
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| | Tuesday, October 31, 2000 - 12:25 pm Foermerguest thanks for helping me out when i was feeling upset with this kuffar, i felt like i was expending so much energy and they weren't listening..and i wasn't lying, i never told one lie..although maybe it is best to point out..that some of the books i mentioned i haven't read, i have read most of them, the others have been recommened to me. i didn't say i had read all of them but it probably looked that way so i kinda feel bad about that. Put apart form that i felt i had bene givng my heart on occacains on other occasions i feel i was drawn into arguements, where i used lanauge i shouldn't have inshallah i will try and not do that, its like a full time job posting on here, but surely Allah's wages are the highest!<smile>..yeah the hours are long, but the pay is great.lol.(if our intentions are pure)..so i guess that is what i should focus on..making sure my inetntions are pure..thanks buddy it meant a lot to me what you wrote. mad mac you might be to know interested you somali junkie you, hollywood are making a film of black hawk down, refered to in the industry as BHD. the director is some jerry "long jewsih surname" guy, and filiming starts in feburary, where all exotic location filiming takes place morocco.lol. they probably gonna shoot it where they shot star wars and the mummy. So anyway, i clearly will be impressed, with the riddiclous outcome that they will produce, but i will if i ever watch it pay attention to the randy charactor.lol,i wonder how he kicks ass?..jumps up and headbutt it?.lol. peace
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| | Tuesday, October 31, 2000 - 01:51 pm "I believe in humanity." and i believe in Allah. "People are people whatever their creed race or religion." i did not know that people were not people regardless of their creed, race, or religion. ;-) "I refuse any form of philosophy(and that includes religions) that dictates what should or should not believe in." and i refuse the philosophy (the irreligious teachings) that dictate what it is wickedness, sin, depravity, dissolution, decadence, immorality. ;-) "I believe that Somali people are essentially secular." that statement of yours is generalization. ;-) "I provided ample evidence for that assertion" well, if you did, your so-called evidence is based on lie, because the fact is that------not all somalis are essentially irreligious (secular). ;-) "I don't believe that God has directly or indirectly ever spoke with anyone on this planet." if you do not believe this, then that does not mean your belief is the truth. in fact, you are only conjecturing, right? ;-) "I made it absolutely clear, and provided evidence, and that any reasonable human being who reads the Quran will come to the same conclusion." well, your so-called reasonable conclusions are based on what you say you believe, which you are only conjecturing, right? ;-) i mean, what you called evidence is in fact just that, a belief based on conjecture, right? ;-)
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| | Tuesday, October 31, 2000 - 11:41 pm Common It's Jerry Bruckheimer. Don't worry, he's about as Jewish as Galool is Muslim and likely doesn't know the Somalis are Muslim. I would like to remind you that I fought in that battle and we did kick ass - contrary to subsequent media opinion. We also did not want to quite, but were forced to quite by our political leaders. Now please don't try and contradict me on this. I was there, those were my friends, I know the deal on this one in detail. All you get to see is a media snap shot at worst, or the Somali perspective (if you fought there) at best. Wouldn't it be great if we could all go out to eat somewhere and argue in person? I think that would be a hell of a lot of fun.
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| | Wednesday, November 01, 2000 - 03:48 am mad i know you killed a lot of people. i wouldn't doubt this.i guess that once people start dying the stakes go up, so i am willing to belive that you didn't want to leave either. I still wish i could get my hands on those little new recruit rangers too, boy i woulda beat sum sense into them. When you gonna teach me how to fight anyway?. galool. i re read my message to you.and it was quite rude, i am embarassed, forgive me sahib. I am truly sorry for being so rude, especailly when you are so concerned about my being younger. Do you forgive me, older cousin? perphaps our debate will take a more plesant turn, i will hold my toungue i can be quite rude at times. man i should be much more respectful.please forive me.okay. hmmm now that i have got that apology out the way, i guess no one at this dinner thing would be really gunning for my blood, i just have to suck up to mad for a couple of posts so he doesn't rugby/american football tackle me as i walk in..and call randy out to kick my ass. one love people
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| | Wednesday, November 01, 2000 - 09:40 pm Man you kill me. I didn't personally kill anybody - at least I don't think so. I'm an intelligence officer. If I'm forced to use my weapon (which I did very sparingly) that means I've done something wrong. I'm supposed to send the steely eyed infantry to do that stuff - although truth be told I'm pretty good at it. You know I'm cool as a cucumber under fire, but put me in an airplane and I'm terrified. Go figure.
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| | Thursday, November 02, 2000 - 02:50 am Xalligu waa sahlan yahay Boggan waa Somali, iyo Islam, qofkaan labadaas rabin ha ka baxo. COMMON, Formerguest, Ingriiska naga joojiya, Afsomali ku qora, markaas Mad Mac buuqiisa waa laga nasanayaa, wax inuu qaso moyee wax ma hagaajiyo. Mushkiloo dhan waa af ingiriis, and not that I do not understand, it just invites wandering unemployed and aimless people to fill our pages with nonesense.
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| | Thursday, November 02, 2000 - 05:26 am wanaagdon.Brother that message in somali wasn't exactlyfull of wanaag.I would write in somali sometimes if i was able, but even then i would write in english so that mad mac could understand, he forms a big part of my conversation, why would i postulate questions to him in somali? and to make it real clear I can't write in somali sorry. shall i leave the forumsn too?. I know the inevitable next question why can't i write in somali?.. the same reason somali people shoot each other
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| | Thursday, November 02, 2000 - 06:08 am Mad mac who bombed the US cole ship. the truth please
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| | Thursday, November 02, 2000 - 04:15 pm Galool. In case you revisit us I have this interesting epilogue copied for you from the book "SAXIIX MUSLIM TRANSLATION IN ENGLISH" after the chapter of "IMAN" "KITAABUL IIMAAN". I thought it might help you look deeply into the thoughts of beliefs and soul searching. I hope it helps. ============== EPILOGUE=========================== Before we close the "Kitab-ul-Iman," it seems necessary to bring a few facts before our readers. This book deals with the beliefs, i.e. those unseen realities which we have a strong yearning to comprehend, but which elude the grasp of our senses. Every person, who is endowed with consciousness, is instinctively impelled to know whence he came and where he would return. What would become of him after crossing the bar of life? Is the short span of this wordly life the culmination of all his hopes and desires and nothing remains after it? These are the questions which agitate the mind of every man, whether he is a believer or a non-believer, whether he is a monotheist or a polytheist or an atheist. We cannot silence the echoes of our souls by simply saying that nothing can be said with certainty about them. The mind yearns for definite and satisfactory answers to all of them. That is what is embedded in our very nature and so long as we are human beings we cannot afford to ignore them. We approach scientists for the solution of these spiritual problems of ours which have a direct bearing on our social life, but scientists have no definite answers to give since they are concerned only with observable facts, that is to say, the optically present source of sensation, which forms only a fraction of man's life and the vast sea of "unseen world" lies hidden before them. That is the reason why even a scientist has to fall back upon chance -a very important admission as to the limits of the so-called scientific knowledge and the possibility of another knowledge unknown to science and altogether different from that with the help of which we observe physical phenomena and their laws. Moreover, the scientific method cannot help us solve the problem of "whence" and "whither". There is always an urge in our hearts to peep across this life hemmed in by space and time and find out our ultimate destiny. Since science deals with "actual," with what is here and now, particularly what can be comprehended with the helpof senses, there is inherent in science a natural tendency to assure that man, too, like inanimate matter, is a bubble that bursts and a vision that fades. If we take this view of man, which is the inevitable conclusion of the so-called "scientific inquiry," the whole of human life in which man plays such a prominent role becomes a meaningless riddle, for he is denied the existence of spiritual yearning in him which is nothing but a sort of cruel joke with man. "Life," says Dr Muhammad Iqbal (Reconstruction of Religious Thought in Islam, pp 50-1), "with its intense feeling of spontaneity constitutes a centre of indetermination, and thus falls outside, the domain of necessity. . . The biologist who seeks a mechanical explanation of life is led to do so because he confines his study to the lower forms of life whose behaviour discloses resemblances to mechanical action. If he studies life as manifested in himself, i.e., his own mind freely choosing, rejecting, reflecting, surveying the past and the present, and dynarnically imagining the future. he is sure to be convinced of the inadequacy of his mechancal concepts." The observable facts or, in other words, the physical entities form only a part of the Reality. On how to know and comprehend the other parts which concern us more intimately than the physical entities. science has nothing definite to say except a meaningful silence which betrays its natural limitation in solving these vital problems of life. Psychology, too, is inherently incompetent to comprehend the unseen Realities of the universe. Life, as we all know. is a great mystery everrin its biological aspects; how mysterious it is in its spiritual and moral aspects, we cannot imagine. Psychology has been-able to grope in the darkness of unconscious and ,ub-conscious chambers and has not been able to bring into light the secrets of the human soul. "Psychology," says Waiter Leibrecht (Religion and Culture, p. 33), "can show us what man is not. It cannot tell us what man, each one of us, is. The legitimate aim of psychology is the negative, the removal of distortions and illusions, but not the positive, the full and complete knowledge of human being." The fact is that human knowledge and intellect, in spite of their boastful claims, are by nature so much handicapped that they, unaided by revelation, cannot in any way comprehend the unseen Realities. What the intellect at the most can do is to transform the sense-data into conceptual forms, but it has to depend ultimately upon experience and is, therefore, subjected to the same limitations to which the knowledge of pysical sciences is subjected. "The intellect," say Ibn Khaldun, is a correct scale. Its indications are completely certain and in no way wrong. However, the intellect should not be used to weigh such matters as the oneness of God, the Hereafter, the truth of prophecy, the real character of Divine Attributes, or anything else that lies beyond the level of the intellect. That would mean to aspire for the impossible. One might compare it with a man who sees a scale in which gold is being weighed, and wants to weigh mountains in it. This (the fact that it is impossible) does not prove that the indications of the scale are not true (when it is used for its proper purpose). However, there is a limit at which intellect must stop. It cannot go beyond its own level" (The Muqaddimah, translated by Franz Rosenthal, Vol. III. p. 38). What a man in the cold regions of an arid intellectualism can, at his best, infer is only the existence of a Prime Cause, but to far as His Attributes, His will, His behaviour with humanity and His Creation, and our relation with Him are concerned. Intellect has nothing positive to say. It is at this stage that man instinctively feels the need of an agency which shoure provide him authentic information about unseen rmuties of life. This agencv is known as Prophethoud. The Great Lord, Who has provided man with materiaf resources for the satisfaction of his macerial needs, has also made suitable arrangements to acquaint us fully with the Unseen Realities which our souls yearn to know. This knowledge of the Unseen is vouchsafed to us through His trusted Messengers (prophets).This is an immense savour from our Lord, immeasurably more valuable then the material resources for, without it, human souls would have suffered the pangs of privation and would have ultimately died. The Qur'an ays: "All praise is due to Allah.Who guided us to this.And we would not have found the way if Allah had not guided us. Certainly the Messengers of our Lord brought the Truth (vii. 43)." Just as the information of the Holy Prophet pertaining to our worldly life is perfectly correct judged by any standard, in the same way his revelations concerning the Unseen. e.g. the Day of Resurrection, Paradise and Hell, will also be perfectly true. because he As Amin. the Truthful.We should, however, bear in mind that since we are living in a world of senses it is, therefore, through sensory experiences that we comprehend it. A man's mind is so much hemmed in by space and time and his vision is so much limited by the material aspects of his life that it is only through material concepts that his mind is led to the knowledge of the Unseen. That is the reason why one can easily find frequent use of metaphors and similes in the language of the Holy Prophet as be explained the Unseen Realities of existence. These are not myths, but the Great undeniable Truths which our souls yearn to know, affirm and believe. but which our own intelligence fails to comprehend.
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| | Friday, November 03, 2000 - 02:17 am Former guest, nice article mad mac..again who bombed us cole?. whats the deal with that jewish guy who "defected" to the israeli army, and why do ya'll apparently keep stum when mossad bugs the white house and scream blue murder when iraqi fly within there border..tell me i am a conspiracy theorist. i love tol hear it, and am currently experincing withdrawal symptoms. Everyone pray for me everyone i think i am losing it. I was on the bus on my way to get groceries, when all this little school children got on the bus and started making mad noise. So i burrowed my head into the book i was reading and tryed to drown them out. This little kid next to me was one of the most obnoxious little kids i seen in a while, this girl behind him dropped some sweet on him and turned round and said "look what you did you fat cow, why don't you go on a diet anyway, you fat ***** **** etc"..the poor little girl was so embarassed.. then he started again "you always eating.".and made a face gesturing a fat person and continued mocking her, now i considered intervening but figured he would take it out on her the next day at school, but he wouldn't stop teasing her..so when it was my stop, i stepped on the kids toes real hard and got most satiffaction, it also worked in getting his attention away from the little girl. he looked around and shouted "that pakistani guy stepped on my foot" i grinned silently and stepped of the bus. Ya Allah i need help, i am trampling on fourteen year olds. everyone i tell this story too dennounces me..lol
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| | Friday, November 03, 2000 - 06:32 pm Common. Don't take it too hard on yourself. We all do mistakes. And I don't think you are loosing.
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| | Friday, November 03, 2000 - 10:58 pm LOooool@Common hi you. You really make me laugh no matter what u write......you always have a words to express things the best way.mmmmmmm if only you are bit older as u r....lol..have you got a brother who is just like you..but little older?..lol peace
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| | Saturday, November 04, 2000 - 11:50 pm When will this animousity end I say??? FORMER GUEST + COMMON I would advice U guys to stop arguing with the non-believers coz U know some how U guys have won the battle......They will not get it now...but trust me they will eventually. So I would advice my intelligent and smart brothers to direct their productivity and time towards matters that matter...so to speak Your sister
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| | Sunday, November 05, 2000 - 03:59 am Black-beauty. Speaking of beauty;, "Allah is beautiful and loves beauty.". And your words are beautiful. Stay cool and company. More ladies are needed on the crew. see ya later.
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| | Sunday, November 05, 2000 - 04:22 am BB Black Beauty was a horse! I am sure you are lot more prettier than that!
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| | Thursday, January 04, 2001 - 04:00 pm Everybody keeps talking about the "nature of humanity" "the meaning of life" and "knowledge of human nature" and such vague, but apparently meaninful ideas. Humans use these ideas to reassure others, and themselves, that the answers to life's questions can be found in the rambles of a tribe of desert dwellers of ONE species (of potentially 15 million species) of one planet in an ordinary star in the backwater little galaxy they endearingly named the Milky Way. Well, let me, a visitor from a far more cosmopolitan galaxy, answer at least some of your more pressing questions: ***What are humans? Humans are (self) classified as homo sapiens, a primate species of the class mammalia in the animal kingdom. They are bipedal, with large brains and form complex social groupings. They have "culture" and complex social rituals such as religion, as do some other primates, most notably the chimpanzee. They suffer from illusions of grandeaur, believing that they are the pinnacle of existance--in fact, the PURPOSE of existance. They fail to realize that this belief is probably genetically propagated by all creatures, as it is highly adaptive: life would have a lot more trouble existing if every species thought it was a humble little nothing and there were a lot more important species out there. Much easier to kill and eat others, to mate and defend one's offspring and self, to LIVE, if one's made to believe that one's all-important. Get over it already. ***Where did humans come from? The same place as all other life on earth, the oceans about 4 billion years ago. A microscopic prokaryote became eukaryotic then multicellular then on to the explosive diversity of animals, plants and sundry other living things all over this planet. ***Is there a "God"? Sorry kids. This interstellar traveller found no sign of this mysterious Being anywhere in the universe. The possibility that this "God" may exist OUTSIDE the universe was discarded as absurd, since the unanimous definition of "universe" is "all that exists". God is simply a concept invented by humanity for a variety of purposes: As a security blanket (it's nice to believe that we don't stop existing when we die, for example) As a multi-purpose explanation for all the "whys" humanity was plagued with when it first attained sentience (why are we here? why do we die? why are people born? why does the sun return each time it goes away?---because God(s) created us to worship him/her/them, because we must return to God(s), because God(s) willed them into existance, etc.) To justify dominance hierarchies, a common and stabilizing social structure of mammals, but especially primates. The alpha human says to the others, "you should do as I say because God(s) set me as your rightful ruler". The ones that must do the following concur because submission is also genetic, and all is (mostly) conflict-free. Beautiful, isn't it? To justify violence, especially against other groups: "We must destroy, spurn or avoid them, because they refuse to follow the real honest-to-god God". In fact, the real reason is genetic: natural selection works best when organisms form small xenophobic groups that only occasionaly mix with other similar groups. So that people will obey the laws and customs of their group: "God will smite you if you kill others/commit incest/disobey the ruler/steal". Most of these rules are also present in other species, and for good reason: they are adaptive. In small groups, a murderer will be very difficult to get along with, and he/she will pose a danger to the group. However, humans--and other animals--have conceded exceptions to every rule. Murder is okay when it's other groups being murdered (God often supports war), or when it's punishment for wrong-doing (capital punishment is divinely ordained). Likewise incest is often justified: how else could the offspring of Adam and Eve propagate? And Egyptian pharoahs also thought it mandatory, so as not to dilute the divine blood of the rulers. The list is for believing in God is endless, and it's no surprise that humans fervently believe in their various dieties. We did too, before we saw the light---of science. Farewell, fellow travellers in the Cosmic void!
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| | Thursday, January 04, 2001 - 06:08 pm The atheist professor of philosophy pauses before his class and then asks one of his new students to stand. "You're a Muslim, aren't you, son?" "Yes, sir." "So you believe in God?" "Absolutely." "Is God good?" "Sure! God's good." "Is God all-powerful? Can God do anything?" "Yes." The professor grins knowingly and considers for a moment. "Here's one for you. Let's say there's a sick person over here and you can cure him. You can do it. Would you help him? Would you try?" "Yes sir, I would." "So you're good...!" "I always do my best to be a good human being , Sir." " You would help a sick and maimed person if you could ...in fact most of us would if we could... God doesn't." [No answer.] "He doesn't, does he? My brother was a Muslim who died of cancer even though he prayed to God to heal him. How is this God good? Hmmm? Can you answer that one?" [No answer] The elderly man is sympathetic. "No, you can't, can you?" He takes a sip of water from a glass on his desk to give the student time to relax. In philosophy, you have to go easy with the new ones. "Let's start again, young fella. Is God good?" "Er... Yes." "Is Satan good?" "No." "Where does Satan come from?" The student falters. "From... God..." "That's right. God made Satan, didn't he?" The elderly man runs his bony fingers through his thinning hair and turns to the smirking, student audience. "I think we're going to have a lot of fun this semester, ladies and gentlemen." He turns back to the Muslim. "Tell me, son. Is there evil in this world?" "Yes, sir." "Evil's everywhere, isn't it? Did God make everything?" "Yes." "Who created evil?" [No answer] "Is there sickness in this world? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All the terrible things - do they exist in this world?" The student squirms on his feet. "Yes." "Who created them?" [No answer] The professor suddenly shouts at his student. "WHO CREATED THEM? TELL ME, PLEASE!" The professor closes in for the kill and climbs into the Muslim's face. In a still small voice: "God created all evil, didn't He, son?" [No answer] The student tries to hold the steady, experienced gaze and fails. Suddenly the lecturer breaks away to pace in front of the classroom like an aging panther. The class is mesmerised. "Tell me," he continues, "How is it that this God is good if He created all evil throughout all time?" The professor swishes his arms around to encompass the wickedness of the world. "All the hatred, the brutality, all the pain, all the torture, all the death and ugliness and all the suffering created by this good God is all over the world, isn't it, young man?" [No answer] "Don't you see it all over the place? Huh?" [Pause]. "Don't you?" The professor leans into the student's face again and whispers, "Is God good?" [No answer] "Do you believe in God, son?" The student's voice betrays him and cracks. "Yes, professor. I do." The old man shakes his head sadly. "Science says you have five senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. You have never seen God, Have you? " "No, sir. I've never seen Him." "Then tell us if you've ever heard you God?" "No, sir. I have not." "Have you ever felt your God, tasted your God or smelt your God...in fact, do you have any sensory perception of your God whatsoever?" [No answer] "Answer me, please." "No, sir, I'm afraid I haven't." "You're AFRAID... you haven't?" "No, sir." "Yet you still believe in him?" "...yes..." "That takes FAITH!" The professor smiles sagely at the underling. "According to the rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science says your God doesn't exist. What do you say to that, son? Where is your God now?" [The student doesn't answer] "Sit down, please." The Muslim sits...Defeated. Another Muslim raises his hand. "Professor, may I address the class?" The professor turns and smiles. "Ah, another Muslim in the vanguard! Come, come, young man. Speak some proper wisdom to the gathering." The Muslim looks around the room. "Some interesting points you are making, sir. Now I've got a question for you. Is there such thing as heat?" "Yes," the professor replies. "There's heat." "Is there such a thing as cold?" "Yes, son, there's cold too." "No, sir, there isn't." The professor's grin freezes. The room suddenly goes very cold. The second Muslim continues. "You can have lots of heat, even more heat, super-heat, mega-heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat but we don't have anything called 'cold'. We can hit 458 degrees below zero, which is no heat, but we can't go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold, otherwise we would be able to go colder than 458 - - You see, sir, cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat we can measure in thermal units because heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it." Silence. A pin drops somewhere in the classroom. "Is there such a thing as darkness, professor?" "That's a dumb question, son. What is night if it isn't darkness? What are you getting at...?" "So you say there is such a thing as darkness?" "Yes..." "You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is not something, it is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light but if you have no light constantly you have nothing and it's called darkness, isn't it? That's the meaning we use to define the word. In reality, darkness isn't. If it were, you would be able to make darkness darker and give me a jar of it. Can you...give me a jar of darker darkness, professor?" Despite himself, the professor smiles at the young effrontery before him. This will indeed be a good semester... "Would you mind telling us what your point is, young man?" "Yes, professor. My point is, your philosophical premise is flawed to start with and so your conclusion must be in error...." The professor goes toxic. "Flawed...? How dare you...!"" "Sir, may I explain what I mean?" The class is all ears. "Explain... oh, explain..." The professor makes an admirable effort to regain control. Suddenly he is affability itself. He waves his hand to silence the class, for the student to continue. "You are working on the premise of duality," the student explains. "That for example there is life and then there's death; a good God and a bad God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, science cannot even explain a thought. It uses electricity and magnetism but has never seen, much less fully understand them. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life, merely the absence of it." The young man holds up a newspaper he takes from the desk of a neighbour who has been reading it. "Here is one of the most disgusting tabloids this country hosts, professor. Is there such a thing as immorality?" "Of course there is, now look..." "Wrong again, sir. You see, immorality is merely the absence of morality. Is there such thing as injustice? No. Injustice is the absence of justice. Is there such a thing as evil?" The submitter student pauses. "Isn't evil the absence of good?" The professor's face has turned an alarming color. He is so angry he is temporarily speechless. The student continues. "If there is evil in the world, professor, and we all agree there is, then God, if he exists, must be accomplishing a work through the agency of evil. What is that work God is accomplishing? Islam which means Submission to the will of God , tells us it is to see if each one of us will, choose good over evil." The professor bridles. "As a philosophical scientist, I don't vie this matter as having anything to do with any choice; as a realist, I absolutely do not recognize the concept of God or any other theological factor as being part of the world equation because God is not observable." "I would have thought that the absence of God's moral code in this world is probably one of the most observable phenomena going," the student replies. "Newspapers make billions of dollars reporting it every week! Tell me, professor. Do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?" "If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, young man, yes, of course I do." "Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?" The professor makes a sucking sound with his teeth and gives his student a silent, stony stare. "Professor. Since no-one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavour, are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you now not a scientist, but a priest?" "I will overlook your impudence in the light of our philosophical debate." "So you don't accept God's moral code to do ... what is righteous?" "I believe in what is - that's science!" "Ahh! SCIENCE!" the student's face splits into a grin. "Sir, you rightly state that science is the study of observed phenomena. Science too is a premise which is flawed..." "SCIENCE IS FLAWED..?" the professor splutters. The class is in uproar. The student remains standing until the commotion has subsided. "To continue the point you were making earlier to the other student, may I give you an example of what I mean?" The professor wisely keeps silent. The student looks around the room. "Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen air, Oxygen, molecules, atoms, the professor's brain?" The class breaks out in laughter. The Muslim points towards his elderly, crumbling tutor. "Is there anyone here who has ever heard the professor's brain...felt the professor's brain, touched or smelt the professor's brain?" No one appears to have done so. The Muslim student shakes his head sadly. "It appears no-one here has had any sensory perception of the professor's brain whatsoever. Well, according to the rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science, I DECLARE that the professor has no brain."
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| | Thursday, January 04, 2001 - 06:24 pm LoL...man!! i miss those kinds of debates <smile> You just made my day!! Thanks for your effort.
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| | Thursday, January 04, 2001 - 07:39 pm 1-Something from nothing? 2-Physical laws an accident? 3-Order from disorder? 4-Information from Randomness? 5-Life from dead chemicals? 6-Complex DNA and RNA by chance? 7-Life is complex. 8-Where are the transitional fossils? 9-Could an intermediate even survive? 10-Reproduction without reproduction? 11-Plants without photosynthesis? 12-How do you explain symbiotic relationships? 13-It's no good unless it's complete. 14-Explain metamorphosis! 15-It should be easy to show evolution. 16-Complex things require intelligent design folks! The answers and very brief commnets can be found at: http://isoc.jihad.org/articles/science/evolution.html
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