     common | Saturday, November 04, 2000 - 01:59 am
This jew that i have been arguing wih on a website in England, has been called up for duty in the Isreal army. He called me ignorant, arab loving, oil loving.. and various other things. He made little sense and less compassion. He argued points that did't make sense and was proud of them. He has gone to fight..i am still here.. this is uncomprehenable to me, why am i stripped of the power to be involved in this. Why am i the terrorist and him the legitimate army officer. Why does is his case plead normality and mine deviance. Why am i here. why am i stuck here, told not to be silly?..Ya Allah i am going home to pray..how can i concentrate on books when this abuse is so flagrate?. Who gave that man the power to be dominant over me, who authorised it?. Why should i play by these rules, that can be bended broken and changed by the few but must be observed my the many?. I cannot.. sadly thats why slowly i must prepare myself to die, it won't be easy.. i mean i grew up playing nintendo, but i would rather die now, than exist for 90 years in a atifical created world that operates in this insidious form. I don't know what form i shall take, and be asured i won't fizzle out, i will eat sleep, breathe and die a solider, i will study and study more inshallah and sleep less, i will have to be better than the people who will wish me dead.It won't be this battle, but i shall be around for the next one inshallah. By Allah (swt)i beg his permission
Think of me when the suicide bomber, splatters into one thousand bits and how my mother would have prefered for me to stay at home. Think of when they call me a terrorist and ask is that so?.Ask if i was born a terrorist or if i was made one? think of me, when i am sleeping two hours a night and learning fight techiques and, military stratergies.Think of me, when you would wish to sleep, and wonder if my tortuers have any knowledge of compassion. Think.Think. Think of me.
Do not forget me. I can go more easily if i am not forgotton.
i have been called for duty
wasalaam brothers and sisters |
| Galool | Saturday, November 04, 2000 - 02:56 am
Common
I am worried about you. I mean it. What is this death BS eh? you are only 21 and have all your life ahead of you. Just think about the number of beauties you will be holding in your arms over the next few years(sadly when you reach my age they avoid you like the plague)
"This jew" is as you said, is a Jew and went to fight for what he thinks is his country. You are NOT an Arab. If Arabs wish to die for Palestine, there are two hundred million of them available for action, if they choose to act that is. Why are you more Arab than the Arabs themselves? Why can't black people be proud of who they are instead pretending to be Arabs. There is nothing Islamic about the war in the middle east. This is essentially a national war. Palestinian christians have been in the fore-front of the Arab struggle since the creation of Israel.
Think of this. Every year, Indian Hindus kill more muslims, destroy mosques, rape muslim woman than Israeli jews ever do. Yet no Somali muslim foams around the mouth about this. Arab worshipping I call it!
If you die, boy, it will a stupid, senseless death. What has the Jews ever done to you or your race? The answer will be nothing.
I blame the beards. |
| formerguest. | Saturday, November 04, 2000 - 03:30 am
Common.
Bro, the best thing you can do is to pray for the goodness of all muslims around the world. Particularly those in need of help wherever they are. According to islam, you do deeds based on your ability. That is, you don't burden yourself. Don't worry too much. Just prayer will do on your part.
Galool.
I pulled off twelve hour shift. I can't write much and struggling with the keyboard. I say, don't hate islam too much and somalis. I hope you positively revisit islam and try once more to understand islam better. MAY allah show you the right path my bro. |
| Galool | Saturday, November 04, 2000 - 04:02 am
FG
Are you being nice to me?. Can't believe it! I think it must the tiredness. Hey I know it sounds unbelievable, but I actually do not hate Islam(and I most certainly do not hate Somalis, whatever gave you the idea). I like Ramadan(I fast would you believe it?)not because I want to go to heaven or am I frightened by the creative torture systems promised in hell, but because I know the REASON behind the Siyam concept ie showing humility, proving to ourselves how weak we are, identifying with the destitute. These things are as valid today as they ever were. I have nothing against people believing in Islam(I really don't) as long as they do not politicize it and try to impose it on me. If people pray, fast, pay zakat, go to hajj because they believe they will go to paradise that is fine by me. I personnally have no interest in going anywhere near heaven , so why do you want to force it down my throat? (you may not, but most Islamic outfits have political agendas, ie they want to rule Somalia and impose Sharia which I totally disagree with)
Now lets stop being nice to each other. It will be boring.(Hey I do appreciate your wise words to Common though, he does get carried away sometimes) |
| asad | Saturday, November 04, 2000 - 05:05 am
"Hey I know it sounds unbelievable, but I actually do not hate Islam"
hate or not, islam is here to stay. when the prophet first preached the islamic teachings in the Qur’an, the people found islam to be an unbelievable thing. it shocked them. the prophet was reported to have said about islam this: "islam was looked at first as a strange thing and islam will continue to shock people in the future because of it's strangness". there will always be people that are against islam (in fact there are more in the world who hate islam than love islam). the prophet said more people would go to hell than heaven. satan will take many many people with him to hell. i hope, insha-Allah, i'm not one of them. ;-). i love to go to heaven. i heard there are lots of beautiful things over there that i can not imagine. there are beautiful women there too. i want to be in heaven looking down at the people in hell and want to laugh at them while i'm having fun with my beautiful women (yes, no one, but many of them in my company). ;-)
"I like Ramadan(I fast would you believe it?)not because I want to go to heaven or am I frightened by the creative torture systems promised in hell"
first, do you believe that there is heaven and hell in the hereafter? do you think 'the creative torture systems promised in hell' is a lie? where do you think you will go when you die? do you think you will come back to the world (reincarnation)? ;-)
"If people pray, fast, pay zakat, go to hajj because they believe they will go to paradise that is fine by me."
lol---->that is fine by me-----as if these people need your permission! ;-)
"I personnally have no interest in going anywhere near heaven"
do you think i care where you want to go or do not want to go? ;-)
"so why do you want to force it down my throat?"
no one is doing that; if we are doing that, then you are forcing your belief on us. you are the one who are preaching your secularists/Sacrilegious beliefs here, right? ;-)
"you may not, but most Islamic outfits have political agendas"
and the devil and his sacrilegious/secularists do not have political agendas? ;-)
"ie they want to rule Somalia and impose Sharia which I totally disagree with"
these people are no different the sacrilegious/secularists who want to rule somalia and impose immorality on people which i totally disagree with. ;-)
"Now lets stop being nice to each other."
haq and badil will never be nice to each other, would they ever? ;-)
"It will be boring."
that is right, so tell us more about your sacrilegious/secularists preaching and the people here will tell you what they belief too, but let us not get sleepy, okay? ;-) |
| Galool | Saturday, November 04, 2000 - 06:15 am
Asad
Nice to see you speaking your mind for a change. Mostly you seem just to copy some dodgy publication or the other wholesale, which really doesn't make for a fruitful debate. So you read some `Africa Watch' pamphlets on the Sudan? good to see you making an effort, but your history is as weak as ever. You contend that the Romans and the Persians attacked Islam and failed. In fact neither of those empires attacked or feared Islam(a mistake at least on the part of the Persians)Nobody was interested in occupying an unforgiving Arab desert inhabited by warring arab tribes. The only known foreign power who has ever shown any interest in Nagd and Hijaaz were the Ethiopians who attacked from their stronghold in Yemen with thousands of elephant-mounted men, only to be thwarted by massive sandstorms. Most of Them died of exposure and the rest fell victim to small-pox. But the Quran has of course a more dramatic explanation for this: Waves of birds carrying rocks from hell and turned them into empty corn husks. Museylema's uprising was intially against the Zakat and was during the prophet's time- and he came close to overthrowing Islam. Check this with a bigger beard.
It took a long time to realize where you stand on Slavery. At long last I saw your response to Common in which you meekly said it was wrong.
I am fascinated by your confession that all you want from heaven is those 60 white-eyed women! I always suspected that a large contingent of the beardo gang were simply sexual inadequates who cannot seduce women in this life and decided to gorge themselves in the second life. I can ASSURE you that catering for 60 women is not as easy as it sounds. Just think of all the nagging! I mean that on its own will be enough to to force one jump right out of paradise! But I suspect your experience of women is limited so you wouldn't know. Also with which "tool" will you use on those women, since the one you now have will be consumed by the micro-organisms in the soil shortly after your burial?
I do admit, even at my age, the fantasy of having a line of beauties waiting to be serviced by Moi is exciting(although alas, I could probably only handle one, OK may be two at a time, I hope my wife is not watching!)
Wake-up! For this is exactly what it is: a fantasy. Learn how to seduce those gorgeous dusky Somali beauties now for this is the only chance you will ever have to do so. I will give you some tips if you wish. |
| asad | Saturday, November 04, 2000 - 06:59 am
"Asad Nice to see you speaking your mind for a change."
lol
"Mostly you seem just to copy some dodgy publication or the other wholesale, which really doesn't make for a fruitful debate."
the publication was separate from the debate i had with you. ;-)
"So you read some `Africa Watch' pamphlets on the Sudan?"
yes.
"good to see you making an effort, but your history is as weak as ever."
and your *his story* is strong? let's see it. ;-)
"contend that the Romans and the Persians attacked Islam and failed. In fact neither of those empires attacked or feared Islam(a mistake at least on the part of the Persians)Nobody was interested in occupying an unforgiving Arab desert inhabited by warring arab tribes."
but there was fights between muslims and the enemies of islam, do you deny this? ;-)
"The only known foreign power who has ever shown any interest in Nagd and Hijaaz were the Ethiopians who attacked from their stronghold in Yemen with thousands of elephant-mounted men, only to be thwarted by massive sandstorms."
lol---------by massive sandstorms. ;-). i wonder who sent those? ;-)
"Most of Them died of exposure and the rest fell victim to small-pox."
including their leader, right? ;-)
"But the Quran has of course a more dramatic explanation for this"
which one do the muslims believe---your *his story* or what the Qur'an says? ;-)
"Waves of birds carrying rocks from hell and turned them into empty corn husks."
that is right. ;-)
"Museylema's uprising was intially against the Zakat and was during the prophet's time- and he came close to overthrowing Islam."
lol--->close to overthrown islam. ;-) by the way, you did lie when you said museylema was killed during the prophet's time, didn't you? ;-)
"Check this with a bigger beard"
lol
"It took a long time to realize where you stand on Slavery."
lol
"At long last I saw your response to Common in which you meekly said it was wrong."
killing is wrong, but it is allowed when it is the right time as slavery.
"I am fascinated by your confession that all you want from heaven is those 60 white-eyed women!"
why not? i love women of all kinds of eyes. ;-)
"I always suspected that a large contingent of the beardo gang were simply sexual inadequates who cannot seduce women in this life and decided to gorge themselves in the second life"
well, muslim men are know to marry more than one woman. how did they seduce more than one women to marry? they rather have legal wives than two or three mistressess. ;-)
"I can ASSURE you that catering for 60 women is not as easy as it sounds."
it will be great for me. i'm looking forword to, insha-Allah. ;-)
"Just think of all the nagging!"
i heard in heaven there would not be any nagging or jealousy. ;-)
"I mean that on its own will be enough to to force one jump right out of paradise!"
that is right. i would love to get to heaven, but it is not easy. if i fall for sinna and have many mistressess while i'm here or i leave islam, i'll not get to heaven. ;-)
"But I suspect your experience of women is limited so you wouldn't know"
how can you know things when all you have is suspion. ;-)
"Also with which "tool" will you use on those women, since the one you now have will be consumed by the micro-organisms in the soil shortly after your burial?"
the same way God created us from nothing. let me ask you this: what do you think will happen to your soul when you die? also, do you believe you originally came from apes? ;-)
"I do admit, even at my age, the fantasy of having a line of beauties waiting to be serviced by Moi is exciting"
lol----? by moi. ;-)
"although alas, I could probably only handle one, OK may be two at a time, I hope my wife is not watching!"
lol
"Wake-up!"
lol
"For this is exactly what it is: a fantasy, a fantasy."
but tell us what would happen to you when you die? ;-)
"Learn how to seduce those gorgeous dusky Somali beauties now for"
how many of them? ;-)
"this is the only chance you will ever have to do so."
is this your fantasy (your belief) or you know for fact? ;-)
"I will give you some tips if you wish."
i would love to hear those tips, but only if you believe them. ;-)
I will give you some tips if you wish. |
| formerguest. | Saturday, November 04, 2000 - 03:28 pm
Galool.
Bro galool, Whether you beleive it or not, I respect you as a somali brother though we have differences in religion. That is all. Don't think people here want to single you out for your difference of opinion. That is purely personal. I also hope you understand when we respond, we are doing in service of our beliefs and culture. That is all. I hope you enjoy your stay with us. Are we friends?. |
| Hakima | Saturday, November 04, 2000 - 08:33 pm
formerguest,
If you see the Lion's teeth, don't think it is smiling to u.
Read between the line...n becareful.
peace... |
| formerguest. | Saturday, November 04, 2000 - 09:29 pm
HAKIMA.
Thanks sis. Remember you said earlier "The lion is the laziest animal". I think I will be able to outdo him in every way. |
| Mumin | Saturday, November 04, 2000 - 10:25 pm
Formerguest
walaal ha kus sirmin Galol, Galol waa magac qalin oo uu ku hoos qarsoon yahay cadow ilaahay, cadow Somali iyo cadowgaaga adiga.
ma hubo inuu Somali yahay, laakin wuu sheegtaa, marwalbana wuxuu caddeyaa inuu Somali yahay. waxaa ad u dhici karta inuu yahay MADMAC oo marba dowr cayaaraya.
Annaga is bahaysigenna, qabiil ku ma dhisna, qowmiyad Somalina ku ma dhisna, wexey ku dhisan tahay Islannimo, ninkii ka baxana wax jeceyl ah oo na dhex yaalla ma jirto. Waxaa naga dhexeysa Business oo qura iyo mucaamalo cadalo ku dhisan laakiin danaheenna gaar ah sida aayaha ummadeenaa xaq uma laha Galol inuu talo ka dhiibto, dadkuu ku caqiido yahay ha la noolaado hana la farxo, aakhirana meeshey galaan hala galo |
| formerguest. | Saturday, November 04, 2000 - 11:00 pm
Bro mumin.
Thanks bro. I agree with all you said. |
| Galool | Saturday, November 04, 2000 - 11:30 pm
Mumin
Soomaali ban ahay. Ama rumeyso ama ha rumeysan. Adi waa i xukuntay, adi aan i aqoon, sidaas ilaahay ma oggol yahay? Waxaa igu sheegtay cadow ilaahay? sidee ruux banuu aadmi ah cadow ilaahay u noqon karaa? Cadow uma ihi FG. Dood aa na dhex taal neceyb nama dhex yaal. Waxaaad tiri Galool xaq uma leh inuu dood ka dhiibto caqiidadeena, taas waan garan karaa. Laakiin Marka danaha ummadda Soomaliyeed laga hadlayo XAQ iyo NUS ayaan u leeyahay in aan fikirkayga ka dhiibto. Waryaa yaa kugu yiri gar-dheere keli ah aa xaq u leh inay danaha ummadda wax ka sheegaan?
Adaa iska soo hor jeestay. Mar waxaad tiri Qowmiyad ma isu keen keenin, marna waxaad leedahay inaad danta ummadda gooyso aa rabtaa! |
| Sweetgirl | Sunday, November 05, 2000 - 04:15 am
Common I know you mean well but suicide bombing is wrong. I'm under the impression that's it's against the Shariah. You'd have to come back and ask how and then I'll let you know......and ok I'll think of you after all you are the only somali guy that makes sense in here. |
| Hakim | Sunday, November 05, 2000 - 06:33 am
Sweetgirl,
Sis, I liked your way of though, but still have same disagreement with you over the what you called"suicide bombing"?? to ask you more Is "suicide bombing" islamic word? who invented this word?could we found from our islamic heritage any similar actions like that? say from the golden age of ours?
formerguest;
bro, Although I know that you know it, but still I feel to remind you the story between prophet Nuh(as) and his son right before the adab when he called as "yaa bunaya" and later when asking Allah to save him since God promised to Nuh(as) before to save anyone of his "Family/ahlihi", Allah answered to him, "he isnot ur family"..... so... there is not "sila"... between somalis if they don't share the faith.......Thanks bro, keep the guard firmly !! |
| Anonymous | Sunday, November 05, 2000 - 06:51 am
Mumin
Br may Allah(Swt) put you in Janaah..you said exactlly what is my mind.so thank you again!
peace |
| Anonymous | Sunday, November 05, 2000 - 02:33 pm
Mumin
Afkaaga caanno lagu qabey!
Galool waad sheegtey, Balse intaas waa laga sii badan yahay, oo saaxiib badan buu ku leeyahay meesha af gaalo iyo muslim bey haddba mid soo qaraan.
Laakiin iska daa hadday sidaa gaalo lacag iyo magac uga halayaan. Hase ogaadeen; in falaashihii yuhuud noqon waayey, madow ameericaan noqon waayey. Qaxooti shaqaley gaajo keentayna uusan cid kale ku darmeyn. |
| DulliDiid | Sunday, November 05, 2000 - 02:56 pm
ASALAAMUN CALAA MAN ITABACAL HUDAA
Galool la bax ama GAAL la bax, koley gaalnimo ayaad cadeysatay hadaad mar dacaayad u soo jeedisay Islaamka iyo dadkiisa. Diintaa looga baxaa ku jeesjeeska Islaamka iyo Muslimiinta. Sidoo kale, ma gardheere noogu yeer ama asal-raac, amaba seefla bood, adigu ogoow inaadan Soomaaliya wax ku leheyn ama u dhalo waqooyi, ama koonfur ama bari meel walba wey joogaan Muslimiinta ayagaana gacanta sare leh xataa Falastiin muslimiinta ayaa gacanta sare yeelan doona, ka naxoo nafta waa soomaaliya muslimkaa leh muslim ayaana looga dhaqmaa ee qurbaha ku duf bax. Gaalnimada micnaheeda ma aha hebel aa gaal ah laakiin waxaa laga wadaa falalkii gaaladuu la yimid wadadoodiina wuu ku socdaa haduusan ka towbad keenin intuusan geeriyoon. |
| Sweetgirl | Sunday, November 05, 2000 - 04:46 pm
Common?? Is the boy really series about becoming a suicide bomber I'm really worried about him. I hope he comes back so that I could talk some sense into him. |
| common | Monday, November 06, 2000 - 12:09 am
Ahhh man!.. you guys care about me <smile>
Sweetgirl, you incredibly sweet. Okay no suicide bombing.
Galool.
Some interesting points.
Okay guys as you can tell i was upset by that jewish guy, i really was upset, becasue i didn't want to just be someone, who was either fake about his Islam or was so defeated in his phyche, so beaten that he imagines there is nothing he can do to change all that is wrong.then i read Galool's message and wondered if i was arabified. So i have been thinking about things and feeling confused (sure i will admit it)
here is what i came out with.
I am not afraid, i am afraid of being unsucessful i am not willing to go out like that though, if i was to run a bombing campaign, it would have to be way more succesful.which would ineveitably invlove staying alive...and boy could i market it after my public relations classes, i would like when i explode, have little messgaes coming out giving out fee halal food or sumthing.lol.I am kidding, what i mean is, i would like to be far more effective, something that would encompass using my brain, there is more than one way to skin a cat, and boy am i determined to skin it. Subservity it seems it a neccesary trait in this world.
Secondly, i have been wondering about Kasmir and Chechnya and if i have been more worried about the palistians than them.. truth be told..i am not sure, i think this campagin has been more effective in pulling at people's heart strings and secondly becasue it invloves Al ASQA Mosque and thirdly casue the Jews are invloved, the stakes appear i guess higher. I was equally and still am worried about the famine in Eithopia, which is on going. My sphere of concern is quite large, i do worry about all muslims..and suprisingly non-muslims too, so i am not sure if i am an arab wannabe, i don't identify myslef as such, but then i don't strictly identify myself as somali..i see myself as muslim from Africa, theorn of Africa, casue if the Europeans red pen, was a little to the left or too the right, i could be eithopian, or kenyan, or from Djibouti, or from Somalia or Somaliland, etc etc etc. So that nationalism thing is both illegitmate and increasing redundant in the 21 century, kants ideas of a international order are becoming more and more relevant and soverignty is decreasing from all angles.
Galool mentions a point about Christan arabs being at the forfront of this battle, yeah becasue the history of arab nationalism, was created by U.S Protestant missionaries,and rivalry between them and the catholic- lazerth and jesuit churches read up on it, it is a product of the schools they set up and the increadbly dedicated years they spent tranlating literature into arabic and sowimng seeds which really are not natural,which many writesr on nationalism write but artificial.(which is now pretty much universally accepted)
Secondly people on this site tend to get upset when i go in Colonisation,so i will be brief nationalism movements that arised from the south, were very peverse and as such developed racist tendancies.Very quickly i will explain why. The national bourgesies, concept of nationalims, was to basoically take over where the white man left, the masses followed this movements, afterwards this manesfested itslef into racism for reaosn whioch may take some time to listetc, the nationalist movements always knew what they were against, but never what they were for.Read Franz Fannon wretched of the earth, he is very good at explaining it, you should read it, i have yet to finsh or fully understand it myslef,but it is very cool.But the situation in which i find myslef in which you ask me, if i wanna be more arab than the arabs. Yes my brother i want to be more arab than the arabs, i want to be more black than the blacks i want to be more indian than the indians. You want me to react to some ones ignorance by delving into ignornace myself. If you imagine that their struggle and my struggle are not conected than you imagine very Anglo -saxonly, tell me would you like to be more british than the british?
galol, dear sahib thank you for the concern, i was upset and your post made me think empirically, i usually think abstratly, so it was nice to go around the edges of my thoughts, with a grey pencil, making the concepts glisten. i will re-evaluate my realtionship with arabs and try and rectify it if i think it is one which is inappropriate, i am like most people in this world a victim of conditioning, even my conditioning has been condtioned. So it may be hard if i am truthful, i mean it will take a lot of soul searching, inshallah it will be cool..and i don't know anyopne with a big beard,..actually i know one guy from bangaladesh..named faqool..but he is about it
sweetgirl, sister May Allah (swt) reward you for your concern and thank you thank you, thank you |
| formerguest. | Monday, November 06, 2000 - 02:21 am
Hakim.
Thanks bro. I wanted galool to think more about his situation. Also, knowing the Quran and practicing it are two different things. I need to be reminded if I am mistaken. Knowing only is not important.
Anonymous.
Wax afgaal la yiraahdo ma jiraan, luqadaha waa aayaad ka mid ah aayaadka ilaahey. Xusuuso wamin aayaatihi wakhtilaafu alsinatikum. Intaa waxaan kuugu darayaa inaad ogaato haddaad qof gaalnimo ku tuurto isagoo aan aheyn inaad dhiiggiisa gashey sida bukhaariga ku qoran oo rasuulka scw uu yiri "FAHUWA KAQATLIHI". Sidaa ula soco. Laguuguma cudur daaraayo maanan ogeyn. Galool waa gaal isagaana caddeystey oo oggol inta kale maku heysaa adiga wax gaalnimo caddeystey sida ASAD, ANIGA, IYO COMMON?. |
| Galool | Monday, November 06, 2000 - 10:36 am
Common
Nice to have you back. I was not suggesting you were Arabised. In fact I also sympathize with the Palestinians, although I do not believe they are in any way `closer' to me than the Jews.The situation in this sad part of the world clearly illustrates my stance against organized religion like Judaism, Islam and Christianity. It is intrinsically unjust to say that any "Jew" have an automatic right to live in that country simply because some old religious book says so, while those whose parents and grandparents were BORN there have no right to return to their homes.
But note something that FG and his gang will never tell you. Jews were living there as long as history itself was recorded. It was the JEWS that built the Al-Aqsa site AND the Ka'aba in Mecca-long before Islam ever existed! The Arabs, and Arab culture came much later.
The jews and Arabs are actually very similar people. Many of the Eastern Jews lived in the Arab world quite peacefuly until 1948 and then 1967 when pogroms were carried out against them and they were forced to flee to what is now Israel. Egypt, Tunisia, Morocco, Qatar, Mauritania and Jordan have diplomatic relations with Israel and the Palestinian authority recognises Israel as a state. The rest of Arab nations will probably recognize Isarel in the next few years. Why should we, Africans, who have no traditional animosity twords the Jews hate Israel and Jews? what have they done to us? Can anyone answer? |
| Galool | Monday, November 06, 2000 - 11:35 am
Common
You are right about Nationalism. It is becoming more and more irrelevant in this global world. Just to correct you on an issue which I missed earlier. Most Arab Christians are Orthodox and have been Christian when most Europeans were still pagans chasing wild boar in the dark forests of Northern Europe. They were not converted by colonialist missionaries as you seem to suggest.
Like you I care about Chechnya, Palestine, Ethiopia, Kashmir and Kosovo. But I also equally sympathise with Timor, Western Sahara and Irian Jaya and the millions of Kurds who are oppressed by Iraq, Syria and Turkey. Do you? or is your sympathy for human suffering conditional to some vague religious bias? PS: Note that most Palestinians, Iraqis, and Chechens are actually whisky-loving socialist/Nationalist/chauvinist secularists. I challenge anyone who knows anything about those parts of the world to deny this! |
| asad | Monday, November 06, 2000 - 11:47 am
we were are here again to correct golool's *his story* (his lies). ;-).
"It was the JEWS that built the Al-Aqsa site AND the Ka'aba in Mecca-long before Islam ever existed! The Arabs, and Arab culture came much later."
lol----->long before islam ever existed. ;-)
fyi, islam existed long before the jews people. ibrahim had two sons ismail and isxaaq. ibraahim practiced islam. ibraahim was not a jew. ;-) his son, isxaaq, had a son by the name of yacquub who is the father of the jews. ;-) ibrahim and his son ismail built the ka'aba. ismail stayed in that area and had children---who happen to be the arabas. ;-)
"The jews and Arabs are actually very similar people."
that is because they both came from the children of ibrahim. ;-)
"Why should we, Africans, who have no traditional animosity twords the Jews hate Israel and Jews? what have they done to us? Can anyone answer?"
i'll answer. in the begging of your post, you said when you were talking about the palestinians this: "I do not believe they are in any way `closer' to me than the Jews". of course, you were talking about yourself when you said that--- since you are not a muslim. however, the african muslims (including the somali muslims)are "closer" to the palestinian muslims because of the faith of islam. ;-) you do not have faith as you tell us, therefore, how can you be "closer" to the palestinian muslims? ;-) the enemy of the muslims are our enemy and they should be hated. the jews hate islam and the muslims. it is in the Qur'an. ;-) |
| Galool | Monday, November 06, 2000 - 12:44 pm
Asad
Where Faith melts into insanity History is rendered meaningless. Ibrahim and his sons, like every Prophet Islam believes in,(except Muhammed) WERE Jewish Aristocrats(most of them actually Kings or Rulers) If you are claiming that Islam existed 5000 years before Muhammed was born, then how can I have a rational discussion with you? I do understand about the point of Muslims identifying with fellow Muslims. You said "we hate jews" Hatred is obviously something very religious, in which case I am glad I am not religious. |
| asad | Monday, November 06, 2000 - 01:15 pm
"Asad Where Faith melts into insanity History is rendered meaningless."
well, the *his story* or the *lies* you have for faith vanishes or portrays you when it is cought and becames insincere, right?
"Ibrahim and his sons, like every Prophet Islam believes in,(except Muhammed) WERE Jewish Aristocrats(most of them actually Kings or Rulers).
well, the fact is that, ibrahim was neither a jew nor was he a christian. ;-)
"If you are claiming that Islam existed 5000 years before Muhammed was born, then how can I have a rational discussion with you? "
in your next post, you are going to tell us your *his story* or *lies* that says adam and other prophet's of Allah that came before ibrahim were also jews too and not muslims, right? ;-)
"I do understand about the point of Muslims identifying with fellow Muslims."
the jews and christians identify themselves with the people in their faith too. how about the ethiests like you, do they, galool? ;-)
You said "we hate jews" Hatred is obviously something very religious, in which case I am glad I am not religious."
we only hate those that hate us (the muslims). you see, we hate the hate itself. we do not love the hate. the jews hate the muslims and they show it all the times. do you love the hate and the injustice of hitler, galool, or you understand his teachings? remember, hitler hated the jews and blacks. do you love his teachings? ;-) |
| Hakima | Monday, November 06, 2000 - 01:35 pm
Galool,
Ofcourse, Islam existed before Muhammed (pbuh). In
case you dont know which obviously you don't everyone is born as a muslim. We then choose to follow the right guide that Allah has told us to and thus become believers or just choose the path that satan has enticed his followers to. Islam...is AL-Salaam...ie not to harm any human being by either tongue, hand, or sword.
peace... |
| formerguest | Monday, November 06, 2000 - 02:31 pm
GALOOL.
You said <Ibrahim and his sons, like every Prophet Islam believes in,(except Muhammed) WERE Jewish Aristocrats>
Abraham and his sons had nothing to do with jewishness. They were neither jews nor christians. This claim is one of the many jewish/christian lies which is your source.
<2.140 Or do you say that Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob and the Tribes were Jews or Christians? Say: Do you know better than Allah. And who is more unjust than those who conceal the testimony they have from Allah. But Allah is not unmindful of what you do!>
They had nothing to do with the losers unless you answer to the question in the verse YES!. It is clearly rejected in another place that Abraham had nothing to do with those polytheists and disbelievers:
<3.67 Abraham was not a Jew nor yet a Christian; but he was true in Faith, and bowed his will to Allah's (which is Islám), and he joined not gods with Allah.>.
You also said: < if you are claiming that Islam existed 5000 years before Muhammed was born, then how can I have a rational discussion with you?>.
Islam existed before. Islam is what messengers left as a legacy to their people.
"2.132 And this was the legacy that Abraham left to his sons, and so did Jacob; "Oh my sons! Allah had chosen the Faith for you; then die not except in the state of submission(muslimuun)."
"2.133. Were you witnesses when death appeared before Jacob? Behold, he said to his sons: "What will you worship after me?" They said: "We shall worship Your God and the God of Your fathers, of Abraham, Ismail and Isaac,- the One (True) God. To Him do we submit (in Islám)."
For that reason, Muslims believe in all prophets and messengers without differentiation and bias.
"2:285 The Messenger believes in what has been sent down to him from his Lord, and (so do) the believers in Allah, His angels, His books, and his Messengers. They say. "We make no distinction between one another of his messengers" And they say, "We hear and We obey. (We seek) Your forgiveness, Our Lord, and to you is the return (of all)."
End of the story. |
| common | Tuesday, November 07, 2000 - 06:45 am
lol.. i know formerguest said end of story..
but i think i know whree galool is going wrong.
GALOOL perhaps you mean racialy that this people were "jews"... don't be confused.. "jews".. have mixed their racial stock, their religion and their land.. together.. for example racially it is widely accpeted that Jesus was a jew.. would you call him part of the jewish aristocracy?. he clearly was upset with something about Judaism.Wasn't isn't he an apostate according to them. So sperate the racial nature of jews and perhaps you may begin to undertand why Abraham was a muslim, by his acts, his belief and his profession, not his matricarchal heritage (jewsih blood is throhugh the mother)
Secondly perhaps you missed what i posted so i will extend you the coutesy that you are clearly not aware..i said i have concern for non-muslims as well. However you ask, if there is religious preference to muslims, i have priorities as everyone does in life. But too calculate my prorities and make me assume the role of villan, is unfair. You would do better to judge me on my actions, for example..if i was too prefer charitry to a muslim over a non-muslim.. would you count that as more important..than if i was a humanist..who belived in giving to all regardless..but just didn't bother doing it. Does that person have more class than me, even if my actions to non-muslims were better?
Basically my love for Islam is higher than any humanist love for humanity and i will endeavour to do all that i can for all that exist..both muslims and non-muslims.
lastly.. you mention that i seem to suggest that christain arabs were converted into christainty by missionaries..i am sorry if that was the case, i don't think i did though.. let me clarify..what i was saying is that Christain missionaries.. were instrumental in creating arab nationalism. Indeed Christainty was around long before they arrived..that is why the Catholic missionaries found more fertile ground than the Protestant missionaries who had to basically start from sratch with their versions of events. The schools they set and up.. and yes.. the secret socities they are accredited with produicing.. (no i am not crazy..this is basic history..widely accpeted stuff read antonious "the arab awakening" ) socities that were basically started by Christains who then saw the importance of having muslim and druze members ..and foolde thme into involvement.. Your basic texts on arab history will conform this.
common stands for common ground and common sense |
| asad | Tuesday, November 07, 2000 - 07:03 am
"for example racially it is widely accpeted that Jesus was a jew.. would you call him part of the jewish aristocracy?.
lol----> aristocracy. ;-)
when did the position of prophets became aristocracy-----for those who possess nobilty and are of the upper class?;-)
"he clearly was upset with something about Judaism. Wasn't isn't he an apostate according to them."
jesus was not upset with judaism (the religion moses preached). jesus never came to reject or apostate the religion moses preached.;-) |
| common | Tuesday, November 07, 2000 - 08:39 am
i will ignore the aristocracy thing.. i don't think that is of any relevanec to the context i wrote it in, it was a retorichal question.. read galools post and then read mine, you will perhaps understand the point then
but anwser
the religion moses preached wasn't Islam?
Jesus wasn't upset with the way the jews practised their faith?
please explain.
oh and asad, i really don't care how you speak to me but please rememeber you are an amabassdor of Islam,and your actions turn a lot of peole off i know you often say you are not here to teach religion,but i don't belive you should be here to turn people away form islam either, keep quiet sometimes, you manage to irritate a whole load of people.. . For example on the page of the guy asking about love in Islam and christianity.. what was the purpose of your message to practise your typing?, To simply make your self heard? or to actually help the guy understand? you came across rude and arrogant, exactly what he asked people not to be like when answering. Sahib..don't be upset you would do well to understand that crtisism like this.. is a chance for you to only improve your charactor |
| Anonymous | Tuesday, November 07, 2000 - 10:05 am
Salaams to all
Just I cannot help to ask;.Is it me or you too suspected I can be completly wrong and ask Allah (SWT) forgiveness and the brother I am asking this question that is Asad.
Asad you said you are a moslim and I belave you are
just go away and do not write anymore about islam on this page plaese
I said this cuz I see your writing very confusing
with those Galool
To all other sis, bro
I will tell you onething do not argue who ever calls somalis but christians etc
I am older than you may not knowledgeble but I have experience
If you want more advise on this ask the scholars.
Wasalam
at this time I decided to use anymou but normally I have a user name |
| sister | Tuesday, November 07, 2000 - 10:15 am
To Common
Assalamu alaicum brother
see it this way we do not know where mad Mac is, but I think we should beleive what he says and there is no difference where he is.
Remember Allah(swt) has the power
And I will say to you life goes on, do you reading and Insha Allah, you will fill your place. Try to stay calm. I was thinking like that a few yars ago but managed to finish education |
| asad | Tuesday, November 07, 2000 - 10:27 am
"but anwser the religion moses preached wasn't Islam? Jesus wasn't upset with the way the jews practised their faith?"
you said this about jesus: "he clearly was upset with something about Judaism". and i told you "jesus was not upset with judaism (the religion moses preached). ;-)
"oh and asad, i really don't care how you speak to me"
i do not speak to badly, but that is fine with me. ;-)
"but please rememeber you are an amabassdor of Islam"
i'm here to point out descrepencies and voice my opinion, just like everyone else here. ;-)
"and your actions turn a lot of peole off"
that is their problems. ;-)
"i know you often say you are not here to teach religion"
that is right. i can not teach islam. ;-)
"but i don't belive you should be here to turn people away form islam either"
i'm not here to turn away people islam either as you think. ;-)
"keep quiet sometimes"
i refuse to do that. ;-)
"you manage to irritate a whole load of people"
well, my intention is not to irritate people. if questions irritate them, then i can not help them. ;-)
"For example on the page of the guy asking about love in Islam and christianity"
well, the person come here and said he or she "WOULD LOVE TO HEAR A FEW ENCOURAGING WORDS FROM THE KORAN.", then, i said to him or her this: "every where you read the Qur'an; every verse (except one verse) you will see: IN THE NAME OF ALLAH, THE MOST COMPASSIONATE, THE MOST MERCIFUL. if you read the Qur'an, you will find that Allah is the possessor of the utmost degree of mercy and love and compassion. the word rahman is only expresseive of Allah's love to human being, and not of human love to human, or to Allah. in christianity which you said you read, in contrast with islam, their formula of introductory is "in the name of the father, and of the son, and of the holy ghost". compare that to IN THE NAME OF ALLAH, THE MOST COMPASSIONATE, THE MOST MERCIFUL. ;-)"
"what was the purpose of your message to practise your typing?"
lol----->practice your typing. ;-)
"To simply make your self heard?"
aren't you here to be heard? what about everyone else to posts messages onto here? ;-)
"or to actually help the guy understand?"
actually, i pointed out to him or her what he or she asked. ;-)
"you came across rude and arrogant"
that is your opinion. ;-)
"exactly what he asked people not to be like when answering"
by pointing out what i think is the fact does not make me an arrogant person. ;-)
"Sahib..don't be upset"
lol------>do not be upset. ;-)
"you would do well to understand that crtisism like this is a chance for you to only improve your charactor"
i'm not the one here crying about critisism. ;-)
is a chance for you to only improve your charactor |
| asad | Tuesday, November 07, 2000 - 10:32 am
"Just I cannot help to ask;.Is it me or you too suspected I can be completly wrong and ask Allah (SWT) forgiveness and the brother I am asking this question that is Asad."
lol
"Asad you said you are a moslim and I belave you are"
lol
"just go away and do not write anymore about islam on this page plaese"
i do not accept orders and censorship. ;-)
"I said this cuz I see your writing very confusing"
how that? ;-) |
| Anonymous | Tuesday, November 07, 2000 - 10:36 am
thank you very much indeed you played your part well I liked the way you quote ddthe Quran
who is kidding who here
May be they are young etc but I am not
nin geed gali jirey looma galo
I hope the rest got the massege
By the way how many names do you have.
Galool, .........tell me the one you are using know
I pray allah (SWT) will show you the right path that you went back from
I met many like you |
| asad | Tuesday, November 07, 2000 - 10:53 am
"Just I cannot help to ask;.Is it me or you too suspected I can be completly wrong and ask Allah (SWT) forgiveness and the brother I am asking this question that is Asad."
lol
"Asad you said you are a moslim and I belave you are"
lol
"just go away and do not write anymore about islam on this page plaese"
i do not accept orders and censorship. ;-)
"I said this cuz I see your writing very confusing"
how is that? can give examples, please. ;-) |
| Alyisa | Tuesday, November 07, 2000 - 11:42 am
common,
Believe me I can understand your frustration. It's upsetting to see Muslims looking to the Kafir for answers, Muslims sleeping, blind to what's going on. InshAllah we're slowly waking up and realizing what needs to be done. Things can't continue to be this way. Change has to take place and we all know change doesn't just happen we make it happen.
I'm glad to see another Muslim awake, stay strong and don't let the fire burn out from your heart. |
| Galool | Tuesday, November 07, 2000 - 02:59 pm
FG
I think we are confusing two issues. You are regurgitating what your faith has taught you. Faith, as the word indicates, has no need for frivolous things like historical facts and evidence. I am not criticising you for that, but I feel you are being disingineous, and you are deliberately denying what you know to be true -for effect.
If the gist of your argument is that everybody who was ever born was a Muslim, then of course Ibrahim, Moses, Jesus and hey, even yours truly is then a Muslim! Of course you don't even need to consider history here. It is Faith. You believe it with or without evidence. I can understand that.
If a semi-literate, impressionable, wide-eyed young beardo told me these, I would shake my head in acknowledgement and would respect his views because I would know that the poor fella actually genuinely believes what he is saying. I don't think that is the case with you. You fully well know that Islam did not exist before Islam! You know that all the Prophets(except Muhammed (PBUH) were in fact Kings of Israel. You know they built the Ka'aba and the Al-Aqsa complex. You accuse me of getting my information from the Christians. I think that is a cheap accusation. If were to get any information from a chest-beating religious bunch, I would have stayed in Islam. I think you also know that, so why the dishonesty FG? who are you trying to impress?
Common
Thanks for being honest with yourself and others. I totally agree with you that Jewishness and Judaism are confusing concepts, particularly in the modern world. Jesus was of course ethnically a Jew born in Palestine. But of course he claimed to be the Messiah(Saviour) whom the Old testament said will come to save the children of Israel. The jews did not believe him and they killed him. As I said to FG, I can understand the Faithfull's interpretation of the Prophets. However, from a pure historical (dare I say factual)perspective there is no doubt whatsoever. The Prophets were the Kings of Israel. They were Jews by nationality and Jewish in faith. But of course If someone believes that anyone who was ever born on this planet is a Muslim, then I cannot argue with that, can I?
I also agree(I better stop agreeing with you or you will lose any street cred with the group)
on the issue of tribalism in our sympathies. I think of myself as Humanitarian, but I am also tribalist at heart. If I were put in position to choose between helping a cambodian family and a Somali one, I will help the Somali family first. That is tribalism! I can therefore understand if you are biased towards what you consider to be your tribe, ie Muslims anywhere. Point conceded. |
| asad | Tuesday, November 07, 2000 - 07:08 pm
Faith, as the word indicates, has no need for frivolous things like historical facts and evidence"
if faith does not have historical facts and evidences, can unbelief bring evidence against faith? i mean, can an atheist like you, galool, proof that there is no heaven and hell? ;-)
"If the gist of your argument is that everybody who was ever born was a Muslim, then of course Ibrahim, Moses, Jesus and hey, even yours truly is then a Muslim! Of course you don't even need to consider history here. It is Faith. You believe it with or without evidence. I can understand that."
galool, can faithless in you bring evidence that says ibrahim, moses, jesus was not muslims? no, you can not. you just disbelieve that they were not-----without evidence, right? ;-)
"If a semi-literate, impressionable, wide-eyed young beardo told me these, I would shake my head in acknowledgement and would respect his views because I would know that the poor fella actually genuinely believes what he is saying."
if an atheist like you, in his pessimism, unbendable, irreverent-heart told me that there is no hell and heaven (without evidence), i would laugh at him. ;-)
"You fully well know that Islam did not exist before Islam!"
lol----? islam did not exist before islam! ;-)
"You know that all the Prophets(except Muhammed (PBUH) were in fact Kings of Israel."
lol----->all the prophets. ;-) ibrahim (and prophets before him) didn't even know the word *israel*, let alone be the kings of israel. ;-). you see, galool, your *his story* or *lies* is very funny. you do not even know that the name *israel* is the name of yacquub (jacob of the bible). yacquub was the grandson of ibrahim and that is where the name *israel* came from. ;-). read the jews books, galool, so you would not embarrass youself any more with your *his story* or your *lies*, okay? ;-)
"You know they built the Ka'aba and the Al-Aqsa complex."
lol------->they built the ka'ba.;-)
"Jesus was of course ethnically a Jew born in Palestine. But of course he claimed to be the Messiah(Saviour) whom the Old testament said will come to save the children of Israel."
lol-------->he claimed. ;-)
"The jews did not believe him and they killed him."
lol----->they killed him. ;-). where did you get this *his story* that they killed him, galool? from the christians, right? ;-)
"As I said to FG, I can understand the Faithfull's interpretation of the Prophets."
what about the faithless's *his story* of jesus? ;-)
"However, from a pure historical (dare I say factual)perspective there is no doubt whatsoever."
lol----->pure historical----no doubt whatsoever. ;-). where is the evidence, galool?:-)
"The Prophets were the Kings of Israel. They were Jews by nationality and Jewish in faith. But of course If someone believes that anyone who was ever born on this planet is a Muslim, then I cannot argue with that, can I?"
well, if an ethiest believes that all the prophets were the kings of israel (without evidence), then can we argue with him? ;-) |
| common | Wednesday, November 08, 2000 - 12:48 am
Dear Sister
Thank you for the words of encouragement, i hope i can take on board the best of what you said and inshallah will do so.
Dear Alisya
Hey sister. i enjoyed reading your post, it was nice to feel warm words and help put my soul at ease, i agree fully, today i was reading an article on Hanan Aswarf the Palistian women spokesperson..and it struck me..i mean i knew..but it really struck me how different evrything would be if the palestians were all Christians, muslim blood ain't nothing nowadays.. keep your head up sister..and i will keep mine. Under grey clouds, butter flies will still soar.
wasalaam
Galool
Agreeing with you doesn't achive much for my war-ton somalinet status either. Sahib.. the definition of a king and the understanding of it are also evry confusing. For example a king has throughout history meant someone who has the power of life and death over his/her subject. In this sense you would understand why Bill Clinton is more of a Monarch.. even those little state sentors are more of a monarchy than the Queen of England.. even though she can still apparently kill someone for treason.. she probably couldn't really get away with it..maybe she could..but i digress. Therfore Sahib.. Jesus (pbuh) was not a king as even when he brought people back to life he said he did this through the power of his Lord, its there in the bible.. that effectively rules him out of the king thing. I guess you could argue that he was divinly appointed and thus makes him eligable for being a king?...he wasn't divinly appointed to be a king..he was divinly appointed to be a Prohphet..this was manefested in his actions. If he was a king, was Mary (may Allah reward her).. a Queen?.. who gave birth to a prince..who eventually became a king?.. i am having trouble understanding. Galool try and undertsand this. From a muslim perspective, the Jesus was a Prophet of Allah (swt) and Moses was a Prohpet of Allah (swt).. there were not muslims in the sense you would understand. They were at the time Christians and Jews.. there was no need for muslims then..seeing as Allah had sent the message to the Jews. However they misinturrpretted things and Prohphet Mohammed was the last Prophet of Allah (pbuh)..who was sent to all of mankind. From Prophet Adam down to Prophet Mohamed..and all the countless other prophets we don't know about..it was all Islam, they were not called muslims, but it was Islam, we talking about semantics here.everone who is born is born under the fold of Islam, what you choose to call them is up to you,muslims is our name
I take this communication class in which we watch how communication goes from one part of a company to another and see what is left of the original message, it loses about 60%. The Quran is a Critria, it is a book where therin is no doubt sahib. I find it funny when people, can be amazed when the scheduled program they see in the TV guide does not come on "but it is in the TV guide!" they say (my family <smile> , belief in the validlity of the TV guide is much easier nowadays it seems than the Quran. yet it is all conjecture, lets be real everything in this world that we know that is not revelation and is not tempered with deep reflection and udnerstanding of Allah ie; western civilisation is conjecture. for example if i go to have an operation.. they will say that there is perhaps a 95% success rate for this operation.. but what if i don't get better..that is not a 95% success rate for me.. i did 100% not get better. Modern medicine is based on trial and error..they do things see how it workd out and then go from there.. that is not knowldge sahib.. they have no idea of the human body they deal with. Okay i hope i was clear on a few things. |
| formerguest. | Wednesday, November 08, 2000 - 02:03 am
Galool.
You missed my point in the last message I posted. I was telling you that Abraham and his sons had nothing to do with jewishness. If you read history you can understand that the jews are a tribe among the twelve tribes of ISRAEL. They are later generations that came after ABRAHAM. Secondly, the prophets you mentioned as being kings are only two as I can recall from the Quran , David and his son Solomon. I don't know or recall a quranic source telling us there were others. Moses, his brother haroan, jesus, belong to a tribe within the twelve tribes of ISREAL. I don't know which. Furthermore, those israelite tribes were always fighting for honour and name. Often times they wrote religious books making specific tribe better than the other. They would put a prophet's name under their tribe and claim he was one of them. There is no way to trust their end of the story. As a muslim I must keep to the Quran. What the Quran rejects is rejected that simple. I also don't write to impress anybody. I write to counter the wrong ideas and notions presented by people if I can. If I can't say anything, I will keep quite about it. I lose nothing by staying away from debates.
Common.
All religions are called islam in principle because of the TOWXID. ALL PROPHETS CALLED FOR THE ONENESS OF ALLAH. The difference is the SHARIA (After towxid) and what relates to it. That is why muslims say they follow ABRAHAM in his path of monotheism. Allah knows best. And don't worry too much. |
| common | Wednesday, November 08, 2000 - 06:26 am
Thanks formerguest
man your messages always but a smile to my face.. walaahi, this one really put a smile to my face..you are so elequant and i was smiling all the way through the message.. espeacilly the part towards me..thank you brother.. i mean it.! |
