     wanaagsane | Tuesday, November 14, 2000 - 02:52 am
ASSALAMU CALAYKUM!!!!
I want you to tell me what Islam says about living on social welfare....... or living in western countries as a whole.
This a personal comment: I think it is double standards and morally unacceptable and Haraam to see somalis coming to the western world and living on social welfare...but i have no religious proof...I am not that learned in islam.
a fact, I know for sure is though , that most somalis hate/dislike consuming pork and alcohol... Social security systems are financed by taxes from alcholol....do u see the connections.
and that many somalis live on social security....
that many are seperated to receieve more social welfare.
they lie to bring over their loved ones....aacudibilaahi....think a man bringing his mother and claiming that they are married
wa calaykum assalam |
| asad | Tuesday, November 14, 2000 - 03:37 am
wanaagsane, first, you said "I am not that learned in islam.", i want to say too that i'm not learned in islam either, but here is what i know and heard----- personal comments:
"I want you to tell me what Islam says about living on social welfare"
i think islam recognizes helping the needy people (refugees/wayfarers/miskiins) and making sure for them to live on baytul maal/sakat/sadaqa money which are compulsory on the government and on the individual give. ;-)
"or living in western countries as a whole."
ardu-Allahi waasic and muslims can live in any place in this world, but their aim should be to practice islam and preach. if they are running for their lives and come to foreign lands they can receive help from the non-muslims. the prophet sent some of the sahaba to christian country (abasiniya) when they were afraid for their lives. the christian government welcomed the muslim refugees and gave them shelter. ;-)
"a fact, I know for sure is though , that most somalis hate/dislike consuming pork and alcohol... Social security systems are financed by taxes from alcholol....do u see the connections. and that many somalis live on social security. that many are seperated to receieve more social welfare."
as long as the somalis are not consuming the pork and alcohol, they can receive help from people who consume these things. the jews and the christians in the muslim lands used to consume riba and deal in their businesses with haraam things like alcohol, but they were required to pay taxes (jisya) which went to baytul maal-----which then helped the needy people. ;-)
"they lie to bring over their loved ones....aacudibilaahi....think a man bringing his mother and claiming that they are married"
in islam, lying is not allowed, except when you are saving lives (your life). for example, you can eat pork to safe your life; you can even lie about your state of iman and say you are not a muslim if you are afraid to be killed or afraid of dying. ;-) |
| wanaagsane | Tuesday, November 14, 2000 - 03:43 am
assad!
Thanks for your comments
welcome back LOL...... bro, I will rephrase my question: Do you think living on social welfare/security is acceptable as a means of income.... am not talking about the first few years...but to continue living on it when you can get a job.
2: do you think many somalis have reseanoble fears for their lives when they told lies to bring their loved ones?...Isn't this against the teachings of islam? How do you define "survival)? |
| asad | Tuesday, November 14, 2000 - 03:53 am
"I think it is double standards and morally unacceptable and Haraam to see somalis coming to the western world and living on social welfare"
now, was every case in which the somali refugees claimed to have been running from death legitimate (halaal, warranted or acceptable) in islam, i do not think so, but there were cases in which the somali refugees claimed to have had real fear of dying if they were sent back to somalia, right? ;-) |
| asad | Tuesday, November 14, 2000 - 03:58 am
"assad! Thanks for your comments"
you're welcome. ;-)
"welcome back LOL"
same here. ;-)
"bro I will rephrase my question: Do you think living on social welfare/security is acceptable as a means of income"
not if you can work. ;-)
"am not talking about the first few years...but to continue living on it when you can get a job."
no. ;-). there is a hadeeth that says the upper hand is better than the lower hand-----meaning---the hand that gives is better than the hand that receives. ;-)
"do you think many somalis have reseanoble fears for their lives when they told lies to bring their loved ones?"
no. ;-)
"Isn't this against the teachings of islam?"
yes. ;-)
"How do you define "survival)?"
i do not know what you mean survival. ;-) |
| wanaagsane | Tuesday, November 14, 2000 - 04:00 am
asad!
come on bro....most of us never told the truth..... we told lies to come over here and continued lying......
we had problems in somalia, which would have been enough to grant us refugee statues, but we exagrated........ |
| asad | Tuesday, November 14, 2000 - 04:03 am
"asad! come on bro....most of us never told the truth..... we told lies to come over here and continued lying"
well, as i said, in islam, lying is not allowed, except when you are saving lives (your life). for example, you can eat pork to safe your life; you can even lie about your state of iman and say you are not a muslim if you are afraid to be killed or afraid of dying. ;-)
"we had problems in somalia, which would have been enough to grant us refugee statues, but we exagrated........"
to me, lying is worst than exaggeration. ;-) |
| wanaagsane | Tuesday, November 14, 2000 - 04:05 am
the point I am coming to is: Shouldn't all somalis repent TO ALLAH for lying? |
| asad | Tuesday, November 14, 2000 - 04:10 am
yes, even when a person told a lie to safe his or her life (for example, the allowed lie---when he or she eats pork in order to safe his or her life), the person needs to ask forgiveness, even-though he or she didn't commit sin. ;-). forget about the one who lied for no reasons. ;-) |
| anonymous | Tuesday, November 14, 2000 - 07:51 am
Asad
Muslim Person don,t allow to eat Pork!!!!!..... you encouraghing Muslims to be close to the Kafirs........what the heck is wrong whit u??????????? |
| Arawelo | Tuesday, November 14, 2000 - 08:34 am
To wanaagsane,
Before we start talking what is haraam or Halaal.
Think this, are the Somalis 'good' muslims. You can use the word double standard when some poeple look good but doing diffrent things.
You see there are somalis here who did loot, rape etc thier neigboors. You cannot tell who is who here. We all Somalis and Muslims by name.
I am not saying they are not Muslims but would you expect them to be thruthfull.
The point of living on the social security, I think you cannot link that only to Somalis. It is wider than that. |
| asad | Tuesday, November 14, 2000 - 08:35 am
"Asad Muslim Person don,t allow to eat Pork!!!!!"
lol
"you encouraghing Muslims to be close to the Kafirs"
lol
"what the heck is wrong whit u?
lol |
| Trauntlabgirl | Tuesday, November 14, 2000 - 12:01 pm
Wanaagsane, masha Allah, good discussion...lol.
As for the discussion: They should not only repent, but give all the money back to the respective governments...lol
On a serious note, may be a lot of Somalis did things out of ignorance (and some are still doing). So, what is the the best thing to do? If we are one those that lied, or are still on Social assistance when we shouldn't be, then we indeed have to repent.
And talking about repentence, there are conditions we have to meet for our repentence to be accepted (I'll post this and the reference later, insha allah).
salaam,
TLG |
| AbdulJabaar | Tuesday, November 14, 2000 - 08:04 pm
Asalaamu Caleykum
Walaal waxaan kugu waanin lahaa inaad marka hore ceebahaada aad soo xalisid marka labaadna aad isku daydid dadka dadka kuugu xiga aad kala hadashid ceebahooda, waxaa haboon inuu qof walba ishiisa iyo ceebtiisa fiiriyo intuusan mid kale u gudbin ogowna hadaad is tiraadho ceeb oo dhan waad ka hufan tahay inaadan iska war heyn ee dib isugu laabo oo ceebtaa daba gal intaad mid dadyoow kale ku mashquul laheyd. Waa iga waano xumaan ha iiga qaadan, Muslimiinta waxaa la is faray in loo ceeb asturo oo si hoose loogu baraarujiyo loona hadlo si qarsoodi ah maxaa yeelay kuligeen ceebaheena Alla asturay seenu u rabnaa tan walaalaheen inaan banaanka keeno, Salafiyiinta nin ka mid ah ayaa agtiisa nin kale wax looga sheegay markaasuu kii wax sheegayay ku yiri "Tukri ma ku duushay?" markaasuu kii waxa sheegayay yiri maya hadana wuxuu weydiiyay "Ruum ma ku duushay?" markaasuu hadana yiri maya intuus la yaabay ayuu ugu jawaabay "Gaaladii Ruum iyo Turki wey kaa badbaadeen markaasaa walaalkaa kaa badbaadi la' waxaa la sheegay maalintaas inay ugu dambeysay inuu dad wax ka sheego marka bal aan wadadiisa marno ceebaha muslimiinta yeynaan raacraacin waciid adagna waa ku soo arooray calaamad munaafaqiinta lagu yaqaana weeye, Once again, xumaan yaan la iiga qaadan ee afkeena aan ka ilaalino waxaan inoo cuntamin. Dhalinyaro, raali ha la iga ahaado. |
