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     | Wednesday, December 20, 2000 - 05:05 am A salaam aleikum Dear Brothers and sisters. I have been thinking. There is a community of us on this webpage now , and i have been wondering if it is possible forus to go a stage further and reach out and actively purse our aims and objectives. I was reading teh other day, taht in the early 19th century in New York, there was a Jewish organisation which prided itself on not one single jew, being hungry in their city, they were a very effective organisation. i and am sure you guys also do not want to be involved in something which is just another organisation, but i am thinking, poverty, makes us lack co ordination and cohesion, throughout history "bread and butter" issues have clouded political economic and social actions. We should not be a knife and fiork ummah, concerned only with our basic needs, becasue then our energies cannot be directed towards doing good, and then Kuffar can run riot, which they are doing. So i think we need to get on with providing education and exconomci success. let me know your ideas people wasalaam
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| | Wednesday, December 20, 2000 - 09:33 am Also in Medina or Mecca (i have forgotton which one) they became so proficent in civil adminstration, that they had hospitals for animals! So essentially what i am saying is that we need to drag our selves up by the bootstraps kicking and screaming, and i am looking for suggestions. In the words of the immortal britney Hit me baby one more time! (with suggestions that is)
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| | Wednesday, December 20, 2000 - 10:15 am Common, asalaamu alaikum, I was thinking before we tackle the social/economic problems, we need to educate muslims in the true sense of Islam. We need to go to the basics and start teaching people the meaning and conditions of "la ilaaha ila allah". This is not to say that we should leave people starving. Ofcourse if there is a dire need, that is where our priority should be. If we are able to accomplish the above (i.e. educate muslims in the basic tenets), then everything else will come smoothly. A muslim will know not to sleep if s/he knows there is a hungary neighbour next door. We, the youth will know not to demand a $200 jacket when muslims all over the world don't have the basic necessities such as clean drinking water, shelter etc. When the prophet peace be upon sent Mua'dh to Yemen, he told him that he should teach the people la ilaaha ila allah. Only when they accept this then he should tell them about prayers, fasting, charity etc. I have to leave now, will add more later insha Allah.
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| | Wednesday, December 20, 2000 - 10:27 am TGL waaleikum salaam Good stuff Okay Education first?. I am down with that. please write more, expalin more i am hungary for ideas i will also write more soon but need to leave
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| | Wednesday, December 20, 2000 - 10:31 am Salaams my bothers and sisters in islam, Good plan. education and charity must be together. More Insha Allah tommorow.
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| | Friday, December 22, 2000 - 06:49 am Hey guys I been thinkng about money. I have never been a big fan of money, always choosing to steer clear of it really, i don't wanna be rich or nuthin, neva have. But!, am starting to wonder is it possible to change our condtion without huge finacial resources?. I am thinking economically we need to be able to hold it togther, create sum strength. On the otherhand, i hate the "what can we do, we are poor etc etc",what can we get of our butts and do, it is real hard getting just my family to change their habits of buying goods and stuff. (by the way you guys are aware we have economic sanctions against coco cola , proctor and gamble, mcdonalds and a host of other U.s companies and products). Those in the U.k stay away form Marks and spencers: not that it matters that jewish business is already a gonna) so i am not sure exactly how important money is too effectively comabt the oppression and ignorance faced by muslims. One of the reasons the U.S hate good ole Osman Bin Laden is that he has money coming out of his ears. His family is the second richest family in Saudia ( the first being the royal family) so money talks very loudly. meanwhile i don't really care what muslims do as long as we are effective, aren't you tired of being ineffective and inconcequencal (spelling!) wasalaam Your brother in Islam
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| | Saturday, December 23, 2000 - 09:37 am Plan number two In what ways do you think we can build a community that would be condusive to a honest leader being born of us. Under what circumstances do you guys think, we could create such an envirnment, where we could bear such a child. Asad mentioned way back when, that are leaders are a reflection of us. Is the process a slow and steady one, Does anyone see it happening, i see it happening I think,with new muslims embracing Islam there is less ectarianism and more nobility, more compassion and sincerity, am i alone in seeing this. It is younger people, talking to their parents about Islam. It is a people, commited to enjoining good and forbidding evil. They can't be bought of easily. I think it won't be easy, but brothers and Sisters who are reading this. Every step you take, you are carrying me with you, every progress you make in your deen, is a benefit for me, for the ummah is one body. When you feel the Shaitean , remember i am counting on you, that i need you.Most of allremember Allah!. The decisons you make, affects the world, be sure of it! come on brothers and sistuhs represent some strength, ignore the hisses and the jealous remarks. When they look at you and imagine you are crazy, do your deeds anyway, remember it was never between you and them anyway.
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| | Saturday, December 23, 2000 - 10:14 am May Allah protect you my brother. I am really glad that such a honest indvidiual exists. Common, you know what you remind me when i were undergrad, a group of my school mates n I were thinking of building an international islamic school, where we can teach the young every subject that exists...but our curriculum will be only taught from Islam's perspective. I believe if our children are taught well...the leader the Ummah awaits will be from them. Brother, you are not alone seeing that Islam and muslims, insha-allah, will be the upper hand as it is supposed to. BUT, the process might take sometime...but definitely it is coming, I can feel it. I feel Islam will relive the Golden age. I feel we will all be ONE STRONG UMMAH.
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| | Saturday, December 23, 2000 - 11:30 am Common & Idea It is very beautiful to see such as young ppl like you,trying so hard to spread Islam and make this World a better Place to live, Mansha,allah. Becouse I for one believe if the World Follow Islam I mean the "real Islam" the true Islam the (Quran & Sunahh)then the World will became the best Place To Live to bring a child and to protect for the Old! so brs & sitrs, lets think Positive and put our Practice & thought into Action.Lets not only thing til our Dying day, lets us start today!!! cuz we for zure don,t know how long we will last. just each one of us do us little as you can, while you traying to reach the Network & the cumunnities. peace & love
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| | Sunday, December 24, 2000 - 04:58 am TLG Do you really believe that people want to be educated about anything if they lack the basic necessities of Life? What is wrong my TLC? it is the first time I saw you getting your priorities so dogmatically arranged! I know you were always big on this `Education' thing, but I thought you were reasonable enough to appreciate that people can't eat the Quran! Common Ahhh! The young, impatient idealist as ever! You will soon find out that Somalis have a peculiar way of helping `their' people. I will bet you anything that most pious-sounding, hadith-quoting, Taraweeh praying Somalis have unsavoury links with dark, shadowy organisations that represent their clan groups back home. Many a wide-eyed youngester like you and TLG tried to set-up Islamic-oriented (and other)socio-political organisations, only to be defeated by that unseen and often unmentioned, but omnipresent force called clan loyalty. And of course you will have to face people like me, who are firm believers that Faith is between the individual and his/her God - and that is where it should remain. We will be happy for you as long as you are concerned with setting-up clinics, quranic schools etc, we will even let you harangue our women to make themselves look like Arabs (provided you leave the pretty ones alone!) but as soon as you seek political power (most organisations do this as some point) we will fight you in the cattle markets and alleyways, we will fight in the barber-shops and slaughter-houses and on the brothels and Khat mafrishis. We will never yield!
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| | Monday, December 25, 2000 - 04:37 am Perhaps then that is where we should start: seek political liberalization along the social reform. Those of us, who are islamiclly oriented, should set up some organizations that tackle the fundamental problems mentioned above but at the same time beat the Galool's of Somalia in the public opinion court. I see such task as an easy one, as long as we let you express your opinion freely without any attempt to silence you, for our islamic idealogy is superior to your secular values. What do we want? A complete islamic system, not only a social force (clinic-building, school-managing, and moral-checking Islam) but a political Islam, a Social Islam, an economic power and there you go, the rest of those things that are necessary for any society. Clan loyalty? Thing of the past for my generation. Ideological loyalty? The new thing my friend. Idealistic goal or achievable dream? Jut wait until we are back in Somalia. Well, or our collegues in Somalia are ready to embrace our ideas. Take Care PPL
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| | Monday, December 25, 2000 - 06:14 am ND OK then, clever clogs! I am intrigued. So you really believe that Clan loyalty is a thing of the past and "New" ideoligies will save the day? Just go to the other sections of this forums and see just how a "thing of the past" it is. And do you count Islamism as a new ideology? Tell us more!
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| | Monday, December 25, 2000 - 09:09 am New Deal, why are Somalis religious leaders divided along clan lines? The only thing Somali men are capable of giving utmost loyalty is to their clan-base. Ideology of any other type plays second fiddle me thinks.
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| | Monday, December 25, 2000 - 12:04 pm Miimi You got that right young lady! Most Somalis are allergic to reality, particularly on this issue (Religion vs. Clan) so it is nice to see honest people like you.
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| | Monday, December 25, 2000 - 06:39 pm Salaam all, I don't have that much time, so I'll give u a quicki <Do you really believe that people want to be educated about anything if they lack the basic necessities of Life? What is wrong my TLC? It is the first time I saw you getting your priorities so dogmatically arranged! I know you were always big on this `Education' thing, but I thought you were reasonable enough to appreciate that people can't eat the Quran! > Galool, my cynical abtee, you are right. People "can't eat the Quran" eventhough I seriously think, some miserable souls might best be served by "eating the quran". My proposal (which was not complete anyway since I had to leave) addresses the root of the problem rather than the symptoms. See, being a Science student, I have been taught to tackle problems from the roots. For example, we can't beat HIV by giving people drugs that allow the symptoms to subside. We have to study the entry, replication and the infection cycle of the virus to find a cure. I believe that the root of the problem is ignorance. If we cure the problem (ignorance) rather than the symptoms (poverty, inequalities etc), then we will be a successful nation. I'm sure you missed my original point where I indicated that if the masses are starving, that is where our priority will be, so allow me spell it out for you. Obviously, if there is a dire need of the basic necessities, that is where we will spend most of our time, but I think educating the masses about the true sense of the religion will ground them. People will take responsibilities for their actions. My proposal is long term. If a Muslim firmly believes in the tenets of the religion, then he won't sleep while his next door neighbor is hungry. On second thoughts, I see where you are coming from. Education will allow them to rebel against your likes. So, you will rather have them as ignorant sorry lil creatures that take whatever is handed to them from some of those so called "Muslim scholars" and your likes. < Many a wide-eyed youngster like you and TLG tried to set-up Islamic-oriented (and other)socio-political organisations, only to be defeated by that unseen and often unmentioned, but omnipresent force called clan loyalty.> Call us naïve, idealistic, even inexperienced youngsters, but I think our Society (as Somalis) will best be served by people with this kind of mentality. I must admit, I'm ignorant of the severity of this clan thing but I believe if the Bedouin Arabs overcame it because of Islam, then we (the Somalis) can. I'm sure you are familiar with the history on how the Prophet (SAW) eliminated A'sabiyah, allowing the barbaric Arabs to conquer half the world. <And of course you will have to face people like me, who are firm believers that Faith is between the individual and his/her God - and that is where it should remain. We will be happy for you as long as you are concerned with setting-up clinics, quranic schools etc, we will even let you harangue our women to make themselves look like Arabs (provided you leave the pretty ones alone!) but as soon as you seek political power (most organisations do this as some point) we will fight you in the cattle markets and alleyways, we will fight in the barber-shops and slaughter-houses and on the brothels and Khat mafrishis. We will never yield!> Once we arm the masses with education, then Common, any other individual or myself doesn't need to fight you or your likes. They (the masses) will do the fighting for us. Eid mubarak to you all if I don't log on again before eid. Some spoilt brats (my cousins) don't wanna get off those annoying video games. So, I'll have to miss out on all the fun on Somalinet…lol. I can't wait to go back to Canada (to my umbilical cord AKA my computer). I'm being forced to go to some gathering where many haraam things are happening. So I guess I'll stop here. I'm threatening to bust out with a jilbaab and "embarrass" them all. We'll see how well that works. Common, I'll write more on the topic some time later insha Allah.
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| | Tuesday, December 26, 2000 - 07:36 am Thanks Galool. Go easy on the patronizing though...I could be as old as your Mom.
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| | Tuesday, December 26, 2000 - 07:48 am Galool, I have a feeling that our dialogue is a departure from what the creators of this thread had in mind. If so, my sincere apologies to COMMON and the other “Akhyaar” of this thread. I’ll attempt to clarify one point I made early: how clan loyalty is the thing of the past for my generation. There is a turning point in the history of every society that works as a catalyst for change. The civil war and the lack of central government for the last decade in Somalia, and thus the absence of peace therein, illustrate the need for change. Actually clan loyalty and the civil war reinforced already existing feelings that our political, economic and social system failed us while it bore a quest for identity—the miserable attempt of many of our youth to emulate anything foreign or their attempts to assimilate into the western culture attesting to this fact. Thus our failed experience, which has many of us question the direction of our political and social development, seems to be the turning point of our society. This is why I argue that CLAN LOYALTY is thing of the past for the post-civil war generation. Even those of us who cannot still get rid of clan loyalty including those in this net can be persuaded otherwise. I’m convinced more then ever that Islam provides a self-sufficient ideology for our society and alternative model for the clan system as well as the misguided secular ideologies rooted in the western outlook of life. But here, and before I conclude, I must confess that as much as I denounce democracy as an ideology since, as Galool indicated in his earlier posting, it nullifies Allah from our lives, I think embracing it as a methodology and mechanism through which Allah’s Sharia is applied is a must, for we want the government to be a true representative of its people. This point needs much more discussion then the space will allow me at this point. At the end I will represent this as a dose of realism contrary to the pessimistic view that clan loyalty will forever hang in our necks. I think otherwise: with the arrival of peace within reach, the much-needed sociocultural and political change is in the make (just read the postings in this net and the many cries for social change). And Islamists are in the forefront of this NEW DEAL, for they have the clear alternative to both secularism and the failed traditional socio-system. It is people like Common, TLG and their camp who are the "New" tidal wave that will sweep the Somali landscape. EID MUBRAK to you all!
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| | Tuesday, December 26, 2000 - 08:02 am Miimi, Why are the somali religous leaders divided along tribal line? If they are it is becuase they're the old guard and unforturnately unable to end their loyalty. the "New" generation are blind to clan loyalty or can be persuaded to GET OVER it, provided they are given the right alternative. the new generation is in the midst of identity crisis and are not CLAN LOYALISTS. I'm including our religous leaders as part of the "past," I'm sure they are sincere and worth emulating but they have failed us for they didn't save our generation. I have feeling that their absence from the political scene as well as the absence of islamic-oriented social institutions played a role in the Somali crisis. Well, the NEW DEAL is the deal of my generation and those who hate anything clan. Does this attempt in anyway answered your query? Eid Mubarak Dear.
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| | Tuesday, December 26, 2000 - 12:41 pm TLG Contemporary world history clearly shows that religions of all colors thrive on ignorance and poverty, while education and socio-economic emanciaption of any society invariably leads to decline in people's adherence to religious dogma. The most fervently religious in any culture are usually the poor, illeterate, and the undernourished. The cliche of the poor going to Mosque while the rich prefer the theatre holds some truth. So here is your dilemma TLG et al. You cannot educate people and rule them under a religious straight jacket at the same time! Your choice. Miimi Oh at last a fellow grown-up! No more patronsising from me. We will talk adult instead! ND Your intentions are noble and laudable but there is a major gap between your idealism( as well as TLG and Common's) and the Somali Reality. The death of clannism is, I am afraid, grealy exaggerated. This means we have to recognize it and then defeat it in a subtle way. (Siyad Barre tried the direct approach and failed so miserably that he later became one of its most prolific clients!) My system of choice would be a full-blown liberal Democracy which recognizes, but gradually erodes the clan system. I will allow you guys (Aren't I generous) to have your own party, as long as you respect the Constitution(ie you don't claim divine power try to rule with Sharia) what say you? ( a nod to miimi's "...me think so" 
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| | Tuesday, December 26, 2000 - 03:57 pm Galool, That is weird!!! Please let me confirm that your theory has no base of truth what so ever. In fact what i have seen by own eyes is young people advocating Islam and taking the sunnah of our beloved prophet as a basis of their daily life..n guess what...all of those were from the Upper socio-economic strata of the society :-) I don't know but i think you are stuck to some 400years ago in history. Walaahi, we are at the end of 2000! Please stop your Marxism tendencies, it never worked remember :-) I hope listening to Quran be ur favorite rather than a kafir like Verdi! Eid Moubarak to you all... Formerguest :-) Common :-) Anon :-) TLG :-) Hanah :-) MadMullah :-) Nour :-) Waryaa_Muskin :-) Sweetgirl :-) Mimi :-) New Deal :-) and to the wierdo of all time... Galool...that is if you are a Muslim :-) salaam alaykum
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| | Wednesday, December 27, 2000 - 02:08 am EID MUBARAK!!! One love all Muslims on this beautiful day.I came just to say eid mubarak, but you guys have been busy , so let me voice my concerns. New deal, i like the way you right, manshallah you are very smart from what i can tell, you will join my list of people i admire, currently TLG and Idea having been topping the chart. TGL. was happining cyber sister, lol, speaking of rocking a jaalaabi, i wore a khamis to my sisters houses..and she was like " how could you ..., i mean you are wearing a skirt".lol.. she makes me laugh. Idea thanks for the eid mubarak, i am freezing here!, i got a cold and had to take a shower in record time to get to the Masjid on time, so my hair is wet and i have a cold, my moms is gonna shout at me when she sees, how little clothes i went out in Galool <smile>, threw a little zakat your way, lest you call me a fanatic or sumthing. Eid Mubarak. Okay, i think New Deal is right. Is it not the that detractors insist that a Islamic governement, is unrealistic, but yet the the continuation of Clan lloyalties is realistic? (at least until their is a increase in the differations in society, ie: different socials stratas, and a thriving civil society, in which you can enter and exit without any major recourse, eg: leave the labour party without being killed.) But what is this acutely selective fatalism?, a sign of galool's hindu nature?. chuckle chuckle. first of all you are verey wrong Gaool, in insisting that world religions have benefitted from peoples ignorance. and i know, i may be called "anti Christain", but this is only the church which has had such a congregation. Am i bad for pointing out, what is acknowldged by most The Church, was the biggest land owner in Europe before the reformation, and had a lot to lose if people actually read the Bible, that is why the the Clergy actually resisted the translation of the bible from Latin and Greek into popular lanaguges, i mean people were killed for doing so. This goes way back, but for a more recent example, look at Liberation theology in Latin America, you will find,my curiously twisted Brother, that a "liberal" intepration of the Bible, ie: it is not Gods will that you be poor on earth resulted in great social upheaval and a power struggle within the church itself and society at large. In constrast, while Islam has according to Gellner always had a "high" culture ( high culture being a purtitanacial literal, scriptual understanding of the Quran) and a "low culture". ( functioning in the Durkheiming model of Religion using Islam to punctuate time and social events, the slaughtering of a sheep to mark an occasion, the visting of maroubouts when harvest fails etc etc) The "low" culture has tradtionally been amongst the rural iliterate and the high culture amongst the urban elite, now this writer argues that "perhaps this style comes naturally to those who are educated".Or perhaps i would argue, mulims who understand the Quran act differently to muslims who don't understand the Quran, they learn from it Now tell me Gaool, "Read in the name of thy Lord", does that sound familar to you, it is incumbant upon muslims to seek knowldge as far as China, and it is every muslims duty to learn Arabic. You are bordering on lying here, galool, Islam has never been afarid of knowledge, lo what a poor nature you are displaying . Comtemporay world history clearly shows only what a weak grasp on the issue you have If people are educated, who will rule them, but themslves, who will bear witness against them first, but themsleves? Your Mosque theator analogy, has really little truth when it comes to Islam, most writers argue that (and it seems true), that the more educated and finacially well off muslims, turn to a "strict" adherance to Islam as a "Charter", while the poor still use it as a "drug" and lastly New Deal, don't worry about going off topic, Galool, has a habit of bending our discussions to incorparate his version of reality, a somewhat picturesque but marcabe landscape one love
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| | Wednesday, December 27, 2000 - 09:00 am Idea and Common Eid Mubarak to you too. I wish for you, myself and the rest of "Akhyaar" happiness and renewals of good deeds. My our Ramadan be accepted. Happy Eid. Galool, I’m sorry to say you got the whole thing wrong! You see, my man, once the masses are educated, as TLG indicated above, liberal democracy, as an ideology, will be defeated. If clan system is here to stay forever, as you seem to be convinced, then liberal democracy as you know it will be doomed to fail. On the other hand, history has shown that the only system which successfully eradicated tribal affiliation for good is that of Islam. You may want to reread the posting of my beloved sister TLG above which she clearly outlined this historic perspective. I wonder then what would make Somalis take your liberal ideas and neglect our Islamic ideologies? As for the constitution thing, well I’m for the divine Koran and Sunnah of the prophet. These will be the supreme law of the land without doubt. However, there is room for you guys in this system. See, I’m for freedom of speech and the right to criticize even my Islamic government. So, we will let you secularist have your day and speak out on your misguided ideas. (Why would any man have a conscious if he cannot speak on his mind? Why would anyone have a mind if they cannot put it to good use?) Letting us be a party!! I like the American system, the two party system, and as such, while you will have your party, I don’t think that will matter at all. See, you will never succeed beyond the auditoriums (forget about being elected)! Why is that? Well the masses are educated; Islamic social forces will be at work, and you will have little chances on cashing your ideas—it will run against the mainstream and the fundamental beliefs of the people, Islam (We will have an election system, remember!). Educated masses, fruitful results and end of Clan loyalty; hey, I’m feeling good about this. Idea and Common have clearly pin pointed the other defects of your arguments. I need not repeat them here--Guys, well said. Eid Mubarak to all.
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| | Wednesday, December 27, 2000 - 12:16 pm ND Please revisit what I said earlier about Clannism. You will find that I never said it will be here forever. I merely suggested a more rational method in which it could be overcome. I will be seriously concerned for your well-being if you were to advocate freedom of speech and ideas within an "Islamic" system. People like FG and Asad will not allow your head to stay on top of your shoulders for long! This liberalism of yours proves my point about the Idealism of youth. You simply fail to recognize that Islam, like other religions, is inherently dictatorial in its basic concept. It believes to be divine, and therefore above human conjecture. This rules out any accomodation of dissenting voices, since no one can "disagree with Allah". The fact that in reality, one may or may not be disagreeing with a fellow human being, albeit usually one sporting a beard and a turban, is neither here nor there to the kind of theocratic nightmare you are so innocently proposing. Common I hope you looked like an Arab in your swish Dish-daashah. I never understood why non-Arab muslims wear that feminine attire. Surely you are not trying to fool Allah to be more kind to you simply by dressing like a gulf Arab? I wonder how Allah will react to a traditional Somali Dhu. Hmm. Never mind. Must be one of those little "tribal" idiosyncracies that are de rigeur to all politicized societies. Anyway, I am glad you admitted that Christian churches tend to attract the poor and the oppressed. Unsurprisingly, you disputed this applies to Islam as well. I beg to differ. From Algeria to Afghanistan, it is the poor, mainly illeterate countryside people that support and nourish Islamic regimes while the educated middle classes are usually their opponents. I dare you to come up with a single example in which this standard role is reversed, or even blurred. It simply is not there. TLG I agree with you that early Muslims encouraged education. They were revolutionary idealists. Sadly the Revolution turned into an empire, and then into the prickly little political outfits that you guys now try to ram down everyone's throat. The fact is, that close to 90% of all Muslims that go to mosques today read Quranic verses in a language they do not understand. So when they finish prayers, the poor souls have absolutely no idea of what they just said! Islam, like other Religions, feeds on that kind of ignorance. "Wal Haafidiina Furuujahunna" may sound embarrassing rather than divine whence you understand what it actually means. So teach people at your peril, my TLC.
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| | Wednesday, December 27, 2000 - 03:01 pm "Wal Haafidiina Furuujahunna" Embarrassing rather than divine whenence you understand what it actually means..!!! Galool, if you are trying to play with arabic...let me remind you something...i am perfectly fluent in IT!! Spare us your never ending nonsense. I hope you understand what this REALLY means: faasaar bacd juhdin al-maa bel-maa!! ps: ajmaal shee fee al-donyaa..iin ana candi el- veto power calayik...wee kamaan fahma keef-el-tacamoul maacaa shaqsiyaah qariba mithlaak..how nice!!! Common, lol...Man take care of your self...we need you brother among us :-) New Deal, maa-sha-allah....
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| | Wednesday, December 27, 2000 - 03:06 pm By the way, mister al-faqiha al-azhari... what don't you explain what..."Wal Haafidiina Furuujahuuna" means to us...since you have been trying to use it since the begining of Ramadan as an argument against Islam??? That is if you understand...which on a second...i doubt you do!!!
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| | Wednesday, December 27, 2000 - 04:47 pm Galool admitting his ignorance about the Quran wrote: Sunday, October 29, 2000 - 07:37 am "somali jews" "FG: No point in bombarding me with with lines from the Quran which I have read few times before. My conclusion has always been the same" By his words, he read the Quran few times, made his decision about it like flipping a coin or something, then pretends that he knows it all. No shame. It was related by Bukhari from Uqbah bin Amre Al-Ansari narrated that the messenger of Allah said : "Among the words people obtained from the First Prophecy are : If you feel no shame, then do as you wish." What a deceitful man indeed!. "6.113 To such (deceit) let the hearts of those incline, who have no faith in the hereafter: let them delight in it, and let them earn from it what they may." Let us see what you get from insulting Allah and fabricating lies against him and his book. "3.178. Let not the Unbelievers think that our respite to them is good for themselves: We grant them respite that they may grow in their iniquity: But they will have a shameful punishment." People like Galool legitimize their falsehood by way of lies and decietful pretention that they know what they are denouncing, when in fact they know nothing or little about it. If the wicked takes the satan as his lord, he makes that wicked's acts alluring to him and perfect to a point where that wicked person disagrees even with his instincts. Idea. Sister, every year wa anti dhayibah inshallah. I hope I don't end up in trouble saying that to you.
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| | Thursday, December 28, 2000 - 07:43 am Formerguest: it goes like this: Kuul Caam waa anti bekheer----> for females kuuk Caam waa anta bekkeer-----> for males However, i like ur sentence..its cool <smile>
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| | Friday, December 29, 2000 - 09:23 am FG I am at loss to comprehend what you are on about this time, but I noticed you did not dispute what I said to TLG. I am not the one who raised this particular example( Wal xafidiina wal xaafidaati etc), it was one of your lot. My point was actually far more general than that. Christian prayers, hymns and chants sounded so mesmerising in Latin that many Churchs resisted `Nativizing' them for a long time. They knew their industry will lose part of its mystique once people understood what they were actually saying. Same applies to the Quran. You are aware, and possibly approve, of the fact that the overwhelming majority of Muslims go to Mosques five times a day, recite verses from the Quran which they know by heart, and come out of their places of worship without understanding a single word of what they just said!. It is these ignorant massess who form the life-blood of politicized Islam (of course led by a wily and often power-hungry leaders who fully understand the Quran but know it is not in their interest to spread that knowledge!) You see, GOB, Knowledge triggers curiosity, which leads to questioning and often demands specific and logical answers to life's complexities. That is a grave risk to all religions who of course depend on irrationality for their survival. Admittedly, illogical trains of thought are often far more interesting than the cold, dull hand of rational thought and common sense! So I am prepared to contribute to your Quranic schools( as long as they are not run by stick-wielding Psychopaths masquerading as Teachers) and insist that every word of the Quran is truthfully translated into Somali. You will find that your students come back and ask you some uncomfortably Galoolian questions!
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| | Friday, December 29, 2000 - 09:36 am Idea Dabcan. and its true. I would not describe myself as strange though. Different maybe, but not strange. Thanks for being truthful about the Veto thing! And now lets drop this discussion OK? Embarrassing isn't it? Do you see what I am getting at...?
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| | Friday, December 29, 2000 - 10:22 am Galool, this time, you are not cynical but dead wrong. Islam unlike many other religions does not feed on ignorance. The 90% of muslims that don't understand what they say in their prayers(eventhough this is debatable, but i'll give it to you) do so because muslims strayed away from true Islam and the prophetic way of doing things.History testifies to the fact that in the past where ever the muslim armies stopped their advances, some of the sahaba would settle and begin teaching those who came into to Islaam the recitation and INTERPRETATION of the Quran. For this reason, the knowledge of tafseer spread through out the muslim realm, and centres of Quranic learning sprung up everywhere. The ignorance spread when muslims turned away from the way of the prophet(peace be upon him) and his companions. Alhamdulilha today we have brothers and sisters that are reviving this practise and that is why the future looks really bright for Islam. In Islaam, not only is ignorance shunned, but it is actually considered a disease. For any act of worship to be put in place, there has to be a prove. Anything that is stipulated by the Scholars has to have a reference either from the Quran or the sunnah (for the prophet is the best of exampls). That is why the prohet (peace be upon him) stressed the seeking of knowledge. As for Somalia, the TLG et al crew is the new tidal wave of Somalis that have seen the WEST and have seen ISLAM But CHOOSE ISLAM. So Abtee, you have to work harder than you think in propagating your secular ideoligies there. Because TLG et al will breathing on your neck like there is no tomorrow. We will meet in Somali insha Allah. A belated eid greetings to all. New deal, eid mubarak and wlc to forums. I'm not gonna say anything about your postings lest you go through what common went through (inside joke). Idea, Common,FG, Asad, Galoo, Arawello, Sweet, eid mubarak.May Allah accept your fasting and make you stead fast in your religion for the rest of the year. Ameen. Common, lol @ your sister. She actually thinks Khamis looks like a skirt! Guy, speaking of education, we need to start it at home. My family needs it big time(Islamic education I mean) BTW Galool, do you look like a white man in your suit and tie? I guess common would look like an Arab in his dashasha/khamis much the same way as you would look like a white man in your suit and tie. And speaking of suit and tie, you wanna make us believe you are not bound by any constrains in your life. Lets see. How is your social cirlce? Do you have to have special kind of suit and tie, serve specific kinds of wine, food, etc in your parties? Aren't there special rituals you have to abide by to remain in that social circle? Freedom...ahhh...i wonder who has freedom? The one subjugated by man or the one that willfully submits to his lord? I guess we will never know.
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| | Friday, December 29, 2000 - 03:54 pm Galool. You have adroit younger muslims who are brighter than old FG. I am positive they will keep the capricious arbitray galool in the den where he belongs. As for your old foe FG, plans to go on with life is in place. As much as I would love to prove the superiority of islamic ideologues and the perfect way it provides to its adherents, I feel I have to give way to others. I like reading what others must write for they know better how to give you a taste of your wrong philosophies and misrepresentations of somali intellect. Somalis speak for themselves without you representing them. You look more intelligent when you don't critisize islam. It is the laughable comments you write about islam that undermines your dexterousness. see, one needs to read how you misunderstand the basics of islam to find out that to be intelligent doesn't mean to be non-muslim. Mad suffers from the same sickness of yours. He thinks it is only him that is gifted or endowed with intellectual traits. All atheists do think so. I wonder where the entitlement comes to them. It reminds me of these questions: "68:36. What is the matter with you? How judge you? 37. Or have you a book through which you learn- 38. That you shall have, through it whatever you choose? 39. Or have you Covenants with Us to oath, reaching to the Day of Judgment, (providing) that you shall have whatever you shall demand? 40. Ask them, who among them will stand surety for that!" Your poor comparison between Islam and christianity is out of touch. Islam requires people to belief with knowledge. First knowledge then belief as ordered in the Quran. The title of poiusness and venerability goes to those who are scholars in islam. That is why Allah said: "Say: 'Are those who know equal to those who know not?' It is only men of understanding who will remember"39:9. In fact Islam promotes knowledge and makes it mandatory on all men and women. Imam Ibnu Hazm wrote:"morality&behaviour" 31. If knowledge had no other merit than to make the ignorant fear and respect you, and scholars love and honour you, this would be good enough reason to seek after it. Let alone all its other merits in this world and the next. 32. If ignorance had no other fault than to make the ignorant man jealous of knowledgeable men and jubilant at seeing more people like himself, this by itself would be reason enough to oblige us to feel it. Let alone the other bad results of this evil in this world and the next! May be the Iman was talking about you Galool. You want people to be in the dark like you about islam and make their decisions on their whims and desires rather than logic and reasoning. Idea. Sis, thanks for the tip. TLG. Thanks sis. Feel free to comment on anyhting you like. If one doesn't like the way you do things in the net, He/she must base his/her rejection on religious grounds. We will all benefit from it. People are entitled to their opinions. I don't know how long some people will take to realize that.
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| | Friday, December 29, 2000 - 04:34 pm Maa-sha-allah TLG & FG, Galool, No, i can't see where you are getting at!! But i think you are the one who has failed to distinguish between seeking the knowledge of what you ignorant of and having DOUBT in your belief! I always admire how Islam encourages knowledge and education.."Qoul haal yaastaawe al-ladeen yaaclamouna waa al-ladeen laa yaaclamoun"..."itloub al-cilm haataa loukan fee al-seen"..."maan salaak dareqaan yatlob fee cilman, saahal Allah dareeqan eela al-jana"...u see my friend seeking knowledge is a pivotal in our religion. And no...there is NO Embarrasment..remember.."Laa Haaya'ou fee al-cilm" :-)
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| | Friday, December 29, 2000 - 07:58 pm Okay, Let me give one-liner thanking to all before I go off writing... Idea: Thank you sister for your compliments or should I say, Jazak-Allahu Khaira Jazaa. I'm glad I've joined this discussion where my fellow islamists are so clearly outlining their islamic prespective and the brightful future they hold for Somalia. Common, The same goes to you brother, thank you a lot. And yes, you are indeed the new tidal wave and clear example of new generation: a generation who understands the fundamental flaws and what is generally wrong with our society. BUT what I like about your postings is that, while sincerely concerned for the well-being of your peoples, you are looking for practical solutions and how to cash on our islamic idealogy. Keep up the good work. TLG, Thanks, and feel free to comment on my postings if you are ready to get into trouble, girl! Seriously i like the way you enlight us, always backing up facts with your arguments and represented premises. One really needs to just look at your last posting to understand what I mean here. I only hope the Galools of this net will understand the facts behind your arguments, for you clearly make the case in a scholarly manner--without being bais to even your own ideology. Thanks for your thoughts on the subject of knowledge in Islam. FG, Maasha Allah, so immersed with the Koran! Thanx brother for your ideas. One dimension to the much needed education and re-education of the masses. And Lastly Galool, What say ye to TLG's last posting about Knowledge and Islam? To me, her arguments seem to be persuasive and backed by strong facts. I would love to see your response to that argument. By the way, if Islam thrives on ignorance, how come all those who write on this fold seem educated? Of course you wouldn't suggest that we are ignorant or blind to our faith! So, I must leave you with a well known Qur'anic verse: "Say, bring forth your arguments."
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| | Sunday, December 31, 2000 - 01:34 pm Common, Alle ha kaa abaal mariyo khayrka aad damacsantahay. I really support you idea because it is crystal clear that we can positively contribute to the betterment of our community. In my opinion, if we can face the challenges, there are so many ways we can make a difference. I will later comment on the monumental achievements and remarkable accomplishments that we can aspire with less efforts. I am ready on my part to pay monthly contribution for any noble cause that would improve the lives of our community.
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| | Sunday, December 31, 2000 - 03:00 pm for give me brothre to open new subject . i want to know if we could bring back khalifah to the earth
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| | Monday, January 01, 2001 - 08:35 am To all, merci, merci beaucoup. Qoonsade, good to see u brother. New deal, I don't really have any comments about your postings. The inside joke I was refering to is that whenever I "adore" a male contributor, by saying "maasha Allah bro", they end up paying a heavy price for it. Ofcourse if you are not a guy, then there is no problem. I can adore you till the camels come home and no one will have a problem. Now that the miserable inerruption is over, we can continue brain storming for ideas for the topic. My comments a lil later, insha Allah.
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| | Monday, January 01, 2001 - 04:07 pm TLG, Thanks sister, although I took the "inside joke" just that—a joke (I'm new to this fold so I didn't know Common went thru hell!). BUT I guess I'm still in trouble since I'm a bro. Galool, Today I had a time to read your earlier postings and couldn’t help but notice your dismissal of Islam as a stockpile of traditional beliefs, of course valuable in understanding the glorious past of Islam but irrelevant or obstacle to modern political, economic, and social advancment. In more than one place you’ve entertained the idea that Islam had glorious past, giving humanity a noble system unlike any other, and one that it has never come to know. You have praised the values of Islam, the nobility of its social system, its tolerant nature, and its other fine points—of course “in the past!” Synthesis of your argument tells me that you treat Islam as a cultural legacy more suitable and relevant for the studies of the past than the present. There are several flaws with that argument, which seriously hampered your ability to understand the nature of Islam. But before I pin point those flaws, I also couldn’t help but notice that your view of Islam-past as a noble system is an admission on your part that Islam can work as a social and political force, thus a departure from the secular theory that religion is insignificant in the political analysis of any society or nation building. How so? Well, if you admit it has worked in the past, then the question begs why should it not work the present? If you admit the system has worked in the past, then your argument against Islamic ideology is unfounded, or lacks credibility. The question becomes how should we make the system work again, since it did work in the past. On the other hand, if you argue that no religion works, then such religion shouldn’t had worked in the past, and the argument takes road less traveled so far on this thread. An apparent flaw in your assertion is the fact that you ignore how Islam was established and developed in historical, political, social and economic contexts. Your tendency to define Islam as a system of belief rather than a way of life, thus misinterpreting its nature, prevents you to see its inner dynamic nature. Viewing Islam through the lenses of historical prospective rather than contextually clouds the fact that Islam is a way of life independent of time and individual environments—remember moral standards are not determined by the environment and changing conditions; rather they are fixed criteria regardless of any environment. Unless you free yourself from the clutches of westernized standard, which treats anything religious as a dangerous intrusion and Islam as a cultural legacy, I only see your understanding of Islam seriously hindered. But then again your difference with classical secular liberalists, and belief that Islam has indeed worked in the past, gives me hope in you. I hope we will continue discussing things objectively
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| | Tuesday, January 02, 2001 - 03:53 am Asalaam aleikum muslims hi others. Imagine my frustratiopn, when galool called me a wannabe arab and i had little access to a comp .lol. it worked out well, i have calmed down and TGL raised my prospective point succeintly. i would just like to add that, i looked like me, the same way i look like me and not a cowboy when i wear jeans and look like me and not a nigerian when i rock a disehki. I am kinda glad you raised the point, cause somalis have "arab" issues. From what i see, they fall into the pro arab camp and the anti arab camp. both unhealthy postions due to the firsts racism to afracans and the seconds racism to africans and arabs, however deep down both are deeply disturbed patterns of human behaviour, Traumatised by racism to the extent of sucummbing to Jean Paul Satres anti racist racism. I know it hurts Galool when arabs are racist to you, but you can not assert your identity in this sense by negating what you are not, that would make your identity weak and even nonexistant. who are the somalis?, i doubt you know, who are the arabs?, i doubt you know either. If we start talking about "imagined communties" and real communties and examing just what makes a nation, if there is indeed anything. For somalis it is warmongering, we have always identified ourselves by saying, well we are not ethopain, not arabs, not this not that, that is why we kill each other, cause we know what we are not, we know who the "enenmy" is but we don't know who we are. Travel over to general and see who hystreia can be whipped up over "eithopia" doing this and doing that to "our land". Franz Fanon, would point out at this stage that Colonisation created divergent tribes , reineforcing difference, so after the nationalist struggle,(i mean one look at the white man, and the somali knew who he/she was) when independance was one, we broke down into tribal disputes.i mean who on earth were we, if there was not an "enemy", so Issaq became, Issaq through its anti southern nature, etc etc The elites wanted what the white man had, Siad Barre, i mean, grabbed the "resources", but could only speak scarcly on what the land held. He laughed with the P2 masonic lodge and had insidious ties with the Italian chemical waste industry (see criminalisation of the african state,: bayet et al) don't get me started, Galool, you don't know who you are, never have, so please don't project your crude level of identity on to me, it took me years to work it out. A friend of mine, every close, intelliegent somali guy, truly belived that the muslims who brought Islam to Somalia were racist, taht is what you do Galool, and if you wnana know teh truth, that is what i despise about you, everything esle i can stomach, but you spread misinformation and conjeture, you twist the innocent into the perserve, you chalk up the abhorrant as natural.that is the danger in Gaooliamn questions at Madressa, nothing wrong with Inquistive questions. You throw accusatiopns taht Islam with be torn apart by education?, surely you recompense not at the wisdom of your Lord. Galool can i say something shocking, it may have been quite a novel, foolish, but novel idea at teh tujrn of the last century to actually think that man, was alone in the cosmos, but the more we learn as humans, the more we learn of Allad (swt). Your knowldege, my knowldege is a drop in the ocean, so what has Islam have to fear about you viewpoint?, stop it Galool, you have no basis for even uttering such fancies. Did you knbwo, recently scientist, have been finding out about somthing called "anti matter", they think, for everything that exists, in this world, ie: mattter, there is a replica unseen version of it. for every atom, a anti atom etc etec. As soon as a i read it i starting thinking about the Jinns,whop knows, the point is, that your extragavance is a sign of ignorance. lets be humble my frined. I always liked Rousuoeu take on things, in the socail contrcat, he agrees, taht man intelligent is a limited, finte source, and that true intlleiegent comes from surrendering the intellect (to your lord i would add), i like that write and he was Christain (sorry MM, i will provide evidence of my anti christain nature else where) Here is where i ask you a simple question, is something right becasue you say it is?. Both TGL and myself have explained why we think you are wrong on Islam about education. I have told you taht you are not supported by contemporay history or acedemia. The current "fundermentalist " movement, is the students, the urban ,the elites. I have also explained the exact oppostie tends to be true. the more educated muslims are, the more they hold to the Quran, everyone conceeds this .lol. they just go on to say about how we need a "charter" in our lifes, move on to that arguement please. i am really starting to think i overestimated your intelligence, or in the words or W.bush misoverestimated you A true statement will always outdo a lie, even if the truth is whispered, and the lie shouted. one love
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| | Thursday, January 04, 2001 - 03:54 pm Common Have you calmed down now? You see I know when I really upset you because a whole jumble of ideas come gushing out of your now famous "restless intellect" and form a rather incoherent and shapeless avalanche of murky concepts and dubious assertions. Let me try to unravel them each at a time. You say that Somalis identify themselves as to who they are not, rather than of who they are. This is true of all modern small nations to a certain degree. A Scott's nationhood is sometimes identified solely by his "unenglishness". A canadian may like to stand out simply because he is not an American. Not that Canada is a small nation I hasten to add. In fact I believe that Somalis have an exaggerated sense of themselves(ask MM the scrapes I am getting into with young Somalis over this issue)There never was a confusion in the Somali character about who they are. They were always this clan or that clan, and then a Somali and then a Muslim. Africannes and Arabness never ever came into their equation. You assert that we know very little of the state of existence and the universe and yet you adhere to the "Sole Truth" of the Quran which you claim answers everything that has ever been and ever will be! A contradiction, wouldn't you say? we either know everything or we don't! I stick to my views about the attraction religions hold for the dispossesed, and education generally forming the basis for the demise of theocratic concepts and systems. As for the sense of dress, we all conciously or subconciously try to make statements about who we are and what we stand for through the way we dress. So for example, you would not be seen dead in a Dishdaashah in your wild pre-islamic days would you Common? So in a sense you are equating your "Islamness" with an arab dress, that, of course has nothing to do with Islam since arabs would have wore it before Islam. I would go through the avalanche again and see what other enigma-wrapped philosophies are there and then get back to you.
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| | Thursday, January 04, 2001 - 07:33 pm Asalaamu alaikum Newdeal, I'll try to keep out of trouble as much as possible. Galool I certainly agree with you on the notion that "small nations" have problems in Identifying themselves. For example, when Canadians travel abroad and people confuse them with Americans (due to the accent), they don't hestitate to say, "we say 'zed' not 'zee'" (by the way they also saw their red and white maple leaf flags on thier back packs to avoid being overcharged for items...lol. I'm contemplating doing this when at one point in Nairobi this Indian overcharged me!). However, there is no confusion as to the original background of the Canadian or the Scott. For Somalis, they are only "this clan or that clan" when they are amongst other Somalis. Bring a foreigner to their midst( specially if he is of African decent), and then the question of "arabness" or "Africaness" surfaces. I remeber once I asked my granpa where the Somalis originally came from. He started teaching me my family tree and all I remeber is it ended in "banu Hashim banu Quresh". My dad and uncle on hearing this, said to me. Look, your granpa is getting old. He doesn't know what he is talking about. YOu might be a shade lighter, have softer curls and straighter nose, but u are nonetheless an African. Ofcourse as a kid, growing up amongst Indo-paks, Arabs and Africans, none accepted me. At the end of the day, I came to the conclusion that i'm Somali. NO more, no less. Hey Common (and the rest), I've been thinking about this topic lately. So, this is what I came up with so far: First we educate people. This starts with the individual, then the family, then the neighbours and so on. Next, we try to make a difference in our neighbourhoods. By this I mean, be a role model for the kids in our neighbours. Our lil brothers and sisters are taking the unbeleivers as role models. We have to give them an alternative. we should even start after school programs in our neighborhoods where we help elementary/high school kids with homework, recreation etc while reinforcing our Islamic values. Even go as far as taking a few kids for a ride to the mosque after the program (though I don't know if any parent will trust me with his/her child, being an "excellent" driver..lol). You will surprised how much bonding will take place. The point raised by Common about money is important. There are many rich Muslims in the world today, we need a way to tap into these "resources". Also, we should keep intouch with friends/colleagues from University, this way, then we will have friends that are Doctors, Engineers, lawyers, social workers etc, that can offer a shoulder to lean on when the time comes. I will insha Allah add more some time later. But, if this works in our neighbourhoods, then we can inport it to Somalia when there is peace.
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| | Thursday, January 04, 2001 - 11:09 pm Asalamu Alaykum. I have not read all the responses on this topic. I did read TLG's. you make interesting points. Right now IM here in OHIO visiting (from Toronto). There is no sense of community here and indeed each man is an island unto himself. The kids I have seen here are just like the gaallo kids with Muslim names. This is the first generation here! can you imagine what the next one will be like? A lot of us are content with our iman and we take it for granted that we are Muslims and that we will die as Muslims (insha Allah), Only Allah knows in what state we will die. TLG the suggestions you have made are good ones....they may slow down the process of assimilation (or melting) but by no means will it stop it. I don’t mean to be a pessimist, but our presence here is wrong (islamically...and I do not want to open that topic now). I pray that we leave here in the state of Islam and with beneficial knowledge to take back home. I would add to TLG's suggestion, live as close to a mosque as you can and be active in the mosque. I also read Galool's words and I must say that they are unacceptable. Perhaps your a self professed atheist and IM unaware of it? Galool you are either very confused or you are in the habit of twisting and playing with words. None the less, your logic is messed up (maybe your getting too old). But anyway, Our ignorance is upon us. The quran on the other hand is the word of God, a source of guidance for those with FAITH. Allah alone has full knowledge of everything past, present and future! not the Quran. It is very simple Galool. Do not twist thing!. You my wish to image that the quran encompasses all of Allah knowledge but this is not the case! We do not know what certain parts of the quran mean! this is to tell you that the ignorance is on our part not the quran or Allah. As Muslims we have faith in all of the quran. This is something that you may never understand due to your lack of faith. It is Allah who grants faith to whom he wills. It would seem that you have chosen to have faith in science or secular education since your sure that it will lead to the demise of theocratic concepts and systems. You see Galool you also have to have faith and your belief is ultimately base on faith and not knowledge. You cannot grasp what is defective in any of the Sciences unless you have a complete grasp of the science in question, to the extent that your knowledge equals its most learned exponents in the application of its fundamental principles, and even go beyond and surpasses them, probing into some of the tangles and profundities which the very professors of the science have neglected. Then and only then is it possible that you say your belief is based on knowledge and not faith..... Galool you should realize that to accept a system before understanding it and becoming acquainted with its depths is to act blindly. This is way you will notice that a lot of the material thought at university is referred to as, 'the theory of this' and 'the theory of that' and not as a fact! If they were truths then they would be constant without change or revision Alhamdulilah we are rewarded for our faith, are you Galool? And yes we do have an Islamic identity and there is an Islamic code of dress. The fact that anything existed before Islam does not make that thing unIslamic. Adultery is a bad thing in Islam and was a bad thing before Islam (in Christianity and Judaism). so similarly with Islamic clothing. You have to understand that we dress in thobe in order to imitate our beloved Rasool PBUH. And not copy pre Islamic people. Once again you miss or twist the point. our 'Islamness' is based on following and being like the Prophet and not clothing! I do debate with you in a logical manner, it would help if you used a little.
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| | Friday, January 05, 2001 - 12:55 am A salaam aleikum TGL I like your ideas, can we brain storm to think of practical ideas, about networking, i think your absolutly right, we need to establish a strong circle of proffesional hard working people, i mean write now Gaalo peope work harder in the community than us, and they do it part time, when they are not partying. Also let me know what you are thinking, galool mentioned it by touching on dress, so many of our youngesters are caught in the trap of wanting to look jiggy, that it makes them comprimise their Deen., just so they can look good, i'm talking mainly about women here, as there is pressure for them to conform to certain values at home, and outside of the house, i mean this has destructive effects all over our community, i always thought if women could look good without comprimsing their Islamic values, this would put them in a much stronger postion vis a bis their deen and wider society, why do we let Kuffar dictate what looks good and what doesn't, espacially when it casue sadness for so much of our ummah, for the men its not that much of a problem, however asserting their Islamic nature, would "empower " them Galool There is no real reason, why you would choose to focus on my clothing, what if i went east and eat sushi? what about if i wear indian clothes, am i only allowed to wear somali things, surely my state of mind is more important. Sorry for confusing you, your right i was touching on a lot of topics, i will concise it up. Idendity politics is not a favourite of mine, Yes Being Black is my Master status in Western socities, and being Somali is my Master Status in non western socities, i could also be a rapist and a wife beater also. The fact that i am not a rapist and a wife beater, is how i choose to be identified, henec my sometimes overtly Islamci character- the long thing is identified with Islam in modern society, not really the arab, i mean secular arabs would not be seen dead in it There is a difference, between, "what i look like" and "making a statment", i will agree i am making a statmenet, but this statemnet has little to do with whether identify as an arab, otherwise i would rock the joint all the time, and suck up to arab people.lol. THe statement that i try and make, when i wear it, is to force people to deal with the reality of muslims and re arrange the perecptions they receive from the mdeia and other sources, it is shocking when people who think i am a "lovely boy" see me in it and think "hang on", so it is a political motive to readdress negative thoughts. It is not however a full time job Secondly another reason i wear it, is that mulsims sisters get a lot of hasslke, and riddicule in westren societies for wearing the Hijaab, if there was a more strong identifable male Islamic presence in societye, they woukld get less hassle i tyhink, one casue people would move on to us, and two they would become desenstised to it. I find it amazing who they can choose to harass muslim women for veiling and put Nuns up on a Pedistall, as the next best thing since sliced bread. There you go, now you know that my "restless mind", is hard at work and i am not oiling my hair, and wearing arab clothes and whispering arabi words in the mirror to myself willing a magical transformation.lol Oh and yeah about Islam being a dictatorial Religion... sheeh kebab you ji-had a rough childhood huh?, lol, the Blessed Prophet, was questiioned all the time on everything, i mean if you can question the best of mankind, i think everyone else, is alright to question. Freedom.. my friend, is not in the ballet box, and you know it isn't. oosmaaayan The Khallafi is a difficult subject brother, we can't have a Islamic state, without a Islamic people, nor some argue, Islamic people without a Islamic state. I would go for the first and Islamic "state of mind£", in which would bear a society, in which a leader could be born of us, i don't think any of us, could do the job. I mean if we were ion the Prophest time, a lot of us (inculding myself) shahadaah would be in question, becasue if we truly belive in Allah (swt) why are actions so radically different. Sorry i could help further sahxiib
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| | Friday, January 05, 2001 - 05:28 am osymaaan hey but don't feel to bad about your inmaan, i just read the post under "Islamic poems" it is uplifting and inspiring, check it out, it helps answer your question
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| | Friday, January 05, 2001 - 06:38 am I can't get over the fact TLG is sujuu!!! I'm also shocked to see her saying i am Somali and talking bout going to Somalia. Can you speak the Somali TLG?, i can see you can't write (look at how you write abti).Before you go to Somalia, I advice you learn how to speak, read, write Somali.I guess some Sujuus are not stupid enough to believe Kenyans will do things for them and you look like you are of those. I feel bad on what I posted "what is for sahuur". From experience i know sujuu have no kheer.
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| | Friday, January 05, 2001 - 08:01 am ??????? Curiosity, stop smoking that weed, Its affecting the 10 brain cells you have left... make that 9 brain cells. What is the matter with you? This is the Islam page not the sujuu bashing page. How would you know what kheer is, Looking at the manner you address TLG you would not Recognize kheer if it eat all you 9 brain cells
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| | Friday, January 05, 2001 - 08:35 am Curiosity, If you were a complete human being, I would have been able to show you how your sort of people are treated...but all I see is a poor lost soul. Go ask Allah for forgiveness
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| | Friday, January 05, 2001 - 10:17 am Curiosity, walalo, i'm waiting for my study group members and I see one of them, so I'll answer your questions later. Idea and "multple question marks", good look'n out dudes :-)
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| | Friday, January 05, 2001 - 11:27 am Common I was not focusing on your dress but I obviously touched a raw nerve. As you well know, my philosophy is that people should wear whatever they want( although if it were down to me, all women between 18-45 will compulsorily don mini skirts, rain or shine!) and that includes Dishdaasha and yashmak if they so wish. You admitted you were making a statement with your choice of attire which what I asserted in the first place. JB I am sorry you find my ideas "unacceptable". hey you win some you lose some! welcome to the debate. TLG How could you do that to me? If I knew you venture to the General Discussions parts, I would have been careful with my use of language there. You see I feel like an old dad caught break-dancing with teenagers at the local disco by his kids! New Deal Some interesting points. talk to you later.
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| | Friday, January 05, 2001 - 11:41 am yeah Galool Brother you did sadly touch a raw nerve,a lot of people say that to me and it upsets me but don't completley shed your skin, your intital assertion, was not that I was making a statment, rather i was tryna look like an arab, which is not a statement, but an attempt to conceal my identity, there is a difference, its subtle, but if you have good intentions you can observe it.
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| | Friday, January 05, 2001 - 12:36 pm Hey Galool, I will debate you on any issue and topic, but please spare us your Pseudo intellectualism. Your words are unacceptable because they are a fallacy. You may preach your falsehood but rest assured that it will eventually be exposed and vanquished. Please dont asume that im stopping you from speaking out. As a matter of fact im very amused to see a senile old man trying to propergate his distatisfaction with Islam. I know i should pity you...but im no Angel. I do pray for your guidance non the less! Talking about debates, I take it that you accept all that i've said in my last post since you've not challenged a word i said 
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| | Friday, January 05, 2001 - 08:02 pm Curiosity, yes, I do speak Somali, well enough not starve or die of thirst in Somalia. Thanks for the advice. Those will be my top priroties as I plan my move to Somalia. Abtee, it is funny that you "care" about what i think about you while you don't care about what your creator, the Almighty, thinks about you or what you say. In any case, I was surprised to see you speak profanity. I thought you only spoke English (with British or Australian accent) and Somali. Abtee man, pray to Allah for guidance. I'm confident you will become an honourable old man. Furthermore Abtee, there is no shame in reformulating your hypothesis on re: the attraction religion holds for the dispossed and uneducated. In Science, we formulate a hypothesis, do experiments and collect data. Analyze the results, change the hypothesis (not the data/evidence/result), do more experiments.... So you see, not even the Scienctists get it right all the time and they figured out the blue print of human life as we know it(mapping of the human genetic code)! Common, will give you my input on dress/hijab and the sisters later insha Allah.
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| | Saturday, January 06, 2001 - 05:20 am TLG, Idea, Sweetgirl, Formerguest or anyone else with constructive dialogue on how this may be achieved, if you are not inclined that way a simple imput on why it is not neccesary, no long debates on what your opinions on Islam are like please, there are many opportunities elsewhere for that Your imput is needed on something . I got outa bed today excited, see i have been think along the lines of comminaction. We are a dispersed people, who need to co ordinate. So i was thinking, a method of communication, which geared muslims towards unity , would have a heavy impact. I was thinking, it would also help in steering economic success and educational success, i think it is vital. I think muslims in the west have a vital role, travelling in muslim countrys, all i saw and subsequently they see is brothers with nike sponssrship and with instant overnight social moblity coming back with tales of the city, reminds me of this author called ariel dorfman, you ever seen the cartoon about Barbar the elephant, he wrote a thesis on it he has a book called "the lone ranger, barbar , and what other innocent heros do to our mind", so anyway this is reflected in many of us, even in the client countries, circling the perpery of a degereate world cultureis appealing, they just have less shiny versions of what we have here. i seen brothers showing me the back of their ties and saying "polyester" thinking it was some western designer, we need to break the myth, and it can only come from us in the west. I know you don't like my black feminist women quote, but we have not defined ourselfs, and it has been to our detriment. we have been defined to our detriment I mean the point of communication has become so bad that we don't all fast on the same day, in the face of global communication and massive technological advancements, we can't figuire out when our fast starts?. I heard a story related by our imam, in which he said that a Bedwiun came to the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) and said i have seen the moon, he asked him if he belived in Allah (swt), and if he belived that he was the Rasooul, he said yes, and then the Nabi (pbuh) said, okay its Ramadhan, i mean look at that unity, a simple Bedwiun, came, and in the face of all this technology, when we can see the moon from here and see it from there, we still can't gain the power that comes from all muslims beginning Ramadhan at the same time, now i know there are issues, concerning how much we have grown as a ummah, and where exactly in the world we are , but i think we make things harder for our selfs and we lose significant unity over these things, what do you think. I am saying if we had, in europe and north america, a printing press, which reached all the muslims dedicated to unifiying the muslims, on points of Islamic ishan, iman and economic and political concerns etc etc, i mean a whole range of things, we could weild a lot more power, directly related a lot of muslims would die less. I can almost feel it i am so exicted , let me know imagine, if we had a team of people, producing pious nation, in France, England, holland germany etc, boy they would take us a lot more seriously, we are in europe in horrific numbers, and they need our immigration to a even more maasive exent to even keep levels of production as they are, not even generate growth, why should we be clogs in a oppressive wheel? did you know the dutch government, supports the influx of Imaams from different countries to come to the counyry, when i was there during an exchange program, there was as far as i could make out a Turkish Mosque, a Moroccan Mosque and a Somali Mosque in the same small town. when i was riding around on my bike (as you do on mainland europe, everyone is ona bike), i found this muslim shop, i was close to the turkish Mosque and they tried to direct me to the Somali Mosque, i mean Allah knows, i think they had good intentions, but that is not the point and The Turkish Mosque and the Moroccan Mosque, were about 2 mins away from each other, i mean who needs two mosques that close, dividing the muslims? Now a new generation of muslims, regardless of their background, speak the same langauge, if we had a network of scholars and profesionals in this langauges, the amount of divisions amonst us would be drasitically reduced, and as a direct result, the ummah i think would not be so easy to dismiss, no need for "terrorist" attacks, we create the sucide bombers, when we deny them any legitimate access to voice their concerns, if our strength ,was such that people, did not maime and kill us, and we did not starve, would we be in such a sitation, we are the cause of such a situation, and no one is going to rectify it, we must raise ourselfs from indignity, and then we may focus on others who wish us harm, yet know it is ourselfs who do the greatest damage.Did you know that many Christains deidcated their lives to produicing literature in Arabic, to craete the force that is divergent arab nationalism, i mean its all there in history "great men" , who mastered the arabic langauge, for the point of diminishing muslims, is the reversal of the situation going to require any less of dedication?, nay,I am looking forward to this project inshallah, May you look favourabble on my idea.<smile>i always wanted to learn french, i will just add german to the list, then find someone who speaks dutch english and Arabic, finish and somali, urdu and English, Bengali and spanish we will generate knowldge and produce it in the host countries, simtaniously and in different langauges .inshallah European muslims will become one we will communicate directly with North American Muslims, and Australisa Muslims, and African Muslims and they wouldn't eb able to lock up thousands of muslims, in Turkey, or in Eygpt. Did you hear they banned a girl from wearing a full hijaab thing, that only covers her eyes, in the American University in Eygpt, saying "any beardo could come in and do the exam for her", she is not allowed to wear it, even though she is in a muslim country, and in other Universities, they have women guards, who check the womens identity, not only did they do this to here, they were contemptous saying "some men have tricked her into thinking she will go to hell if she doesn't wear it". Like Calvin klein knows what women what to wear?, any way you probably know mnore about the issue than me. looking forard to your responses Your brother in Islam
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| | Saturday, January 06, 2001 - 06:14 am Salaam All Common, I like your ideas and will comment on the practicality of those ideas.But, my dearest brother, I felt it is necessary to register my initial feeling on your thoughts: we need new ideas to break out of the cycle we are in, and ideas start from somewhere. Just for the heck of it, the reason i choose my nick name as a "New Deal" is to reflect, on my part, the needed changes and ideas and such wanted to propose a host of new deals that will change the condition of this ummah of ours. Your ideas are one step towards that end. the question becomes what can we do, practically speaking. I promise I will write my comments and suggestions on this afternoon, but wanted to thank you for taking the time to write such lovely message and be concerned about the situation of our Ummah. May allah reward you for your concerns. A brother who loves you for the sake of Allah New Deal
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| | Saturday, January 06, 2001 - 07:29 am New Deal. It is a sweet feeling to see you back, i thought you were going to be absent for a while. Thanks for your interest and encouragement. Please let me know more about your thoughts, you know i am a earnest admirer of the way you write, and your thought process.I will leave you with a few thought for you to chew over, i heard this Scholar once say, that Malcom X knew little about Islam, perhaps 5% he said, what he did with that 5% was amazing. Imagine what we could do, knowing more and contributing more, and I am wondering on the most effective ways to change myself so that people would be more attracted to Islam. i mean, everyone lieks chocolate, but nobody loves it shoved down their throat, concrete ways to build my Iman and Ishan, patience and kindness, changing the ummah, means changing myself clearly. I am the ummah, you are the ummah, my likeness, is your likeness, if you don't let them call me a terrorist, fundermentalist,you will not be called one if i lift you up, if you shine, you will illuminate me, if i have paitence, you will have mercy, if i have love, you will have kindness, lets connect the dots, i love you for the sake of Allah also saxiib. Your essence is my key to Jannah, for none of us truly believe until we want for our brother, what we have for ourselves May Allah keep you in shade on the day of reckoning Ja Zaku Allhu Kahir Your brother in Islam
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| | Saturday, January 06, 2001 - 09:06 am Common, Thank you very much for those kind words and reminder. Thank you again thousand times. i promised I want to write some comments, but i'm afraid my posting will be little long, so bear with me guys. About a year or so ago, I listened this lecture entitled “Tahrirul Ard am Tahrirul Insan = Liberation of the land or liberation of the individual” by one of my favorite sheikhs, Salman ibnu Fahd Al Awda. The fundamental question, which he intended to answer in that lecture, was: which of the two tasks should we tackle first, liberating our minds or liberating our lands? I intend to argue that we should liberate ourselves first and foremost, and before we are concerned with liberating our lands. You may well ask, are we captive? And what are we liberating ourselves from? But then again you are all aware of the degree we have become sub-servants of foreign ideas that are the antithesis of Islam—Common’s above post shows how steeped we are into this degenerative ideas. Not only are we captive to westernized version of everything but also to the values set by our own desires. The acceptable norm has become stay away from anything Islamic, it is destructive, backwardness, and not contemporary! This is where I think we should start the march: freeing ourselves, or rather liberating ourselves, to use a revolutionary term, from the standards of Jahiliyyah, whether be it self-set standards or westernized standards. Remember the words of that great Sahabi, “God has sent us to bring anyone who wishes from servitude to men into the service of God alone, from the narrowness of this world into the vastness of this world and the Hereafter, and from the tyranny of religions into the justice of Islam.” In other words, we must declare a universal declaration of freedom of man from servitude to our own desires and from servitude to other men. Practically speaking, then, how do we achieve this? As TLG and other science students recognize, we must first identify the problem. Surely it is time for us to look squarely at the problem that beset the Islamic ummah and hypothesize its solution. Personally I think many of our problems stem from lack of education. Thus it makes sense that we propose ways to educate the masses. 1. In agreement with TLG, we must start a campaign of after-school programs for students of all ages, from primary to college level. In this side of the globe, such programs are rewarded for the success they bring, and I’m more than sure that we are capable of producing sweet fruits. But in so doing not only are we giving full attention and effort to the marvelous works of the sciences and material production, a beauty which the muslim world is devoid, BUT also giving our youngsters alternative ROLE MODELS who choose Islam to be their way of life rather than the fashionable westernized lifestyle. I have an actual experience in this that I can relate to. 2. The print-media point you have made is actually a good point. Though it bothers me as much as it bothers you that there is a systematic compartmentalization of Muslims thru ethnic lines (Moroccan Mosque, Somali Mosque, etc), and sometimes I totally don’t understand why the Muslims are doing that, yet I think that there is already enough of such attempts—though the Somalis lack such communicating device. To me the creation of such communiqué is essential part for us, the new generation of the Somalis. We lack such communication, and we cannot reach the masses without it. This point is more important for us and we must work together in achieving it. a. Our generation must create new ways of communicating b. We must held conferences and discussions without boundary. An exchange of ideas always bores new ideas and fruitful changes. 3. We must emphasize instruction-for-action model. We must understand that Islamic instructions are for action, and not merely for the academic discussion of the masses. In other words, we must walk the talk rather than talk only the talk. 4. Self-sufficiency, in all the meaning of that word, is essential for the revival of the Muslims. We must rely more on ourselves, in every thing and I mean everything, rather than western governments or other nations. We must rely more on our Islamic experts and less on foreign experts. In matters of science, the west is far ahead and we must work with them, learn from them as well as working with them, but without compromising our religious beliefs. BUT as mentioned earlier, there are a lot of resources available and we must learn how to put them into use. In short, I think we must first and squarely identify the root causes of our problems, hypothesize what is causing it and then experiment the solution. Our experiments may succeed or prove to be wrong, in which cases we will learn from our mistakes and with Allah’s help not repeat them. Which brings me to the conclusion of my message, which is that we must analyze what went wrong with previous attempts and techniques; which ones prove to be total failure, which ones combined both success and failure, and in each case, why such was the case. We can learn from our past techniques, or the attempts of our old-generation and bring forth NEW DEALS. Your Brother of Islam, New Deal
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| | Saturday, January 06, 2001 - 10:19 am Common and Newdeal, you guys are sooo cool. Be back later to say a few things.
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| | Saturday, January 06, 2001 - 05:37 pm TLG You are at serious risk of becoming big-headed, what with will the admiration and the praise. I do not particularly care what you or anyone else thinks about me. I am however, perhaps surprisingly for a funky, liberal kind of a guy(I see the smiles on common et al's face) - a little bit old-fashioned when it comes to addressing ladies. And as those parts of the net are usually frequented by chest-thumping young men, I sometimes use colorful language to bring them to their senses -and it usually works. I was just expressing my embarrassment at realizing that ladies were watching while I was using inappropriate language, that is all. So a bit of advice, my favourite Virtual niece. Be confident and haughty even, but never big-headed. Alas, there is a thin line between confidence and arrogance, and a wise woman is the one who knows the difference. Needless to say I have an unbounded trust that you are one.
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| | Saturday, January 06, 2001 - 07:58 pm Abtee, lol man. Admit it that you didn't want your "favorite beardess" to see you display "colorful language". There aint no shame in that. I would also be ashamed if you caught me display non-diplomatic character elsewhere. I mean, there were other ladies participating in the discusion long before I came along (or atleast you noticed my presence), don't u think u needed to be a bit old fashioned in their presence? Now i'm becoming way "big headed" aren't I? or am I on the borderline of arrogance?lol. Anyway, Ok abtee...I'll be an obedient and submissive neice from now henceforth. Isn't that the "beardess" way after all? On a serious note, I do understand your frustration when someone said some stuff that you weren't too happy with, hence the language (i'm trying to rebuild our diplomatic ties here....is it working?). Personally, I would have handled it differently, but that is just me. I have weird ways of dealing with situations. your always-obedient neice
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| | Sunday, January 07, 2001 - 07:06 am New Deal a salaam aleikum saxiib Brother This lab is shutting down for the night, i will inshallah write tommorow on our topic waslaam your brother in Islam
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| | Sunday, January 07, 2001 - 10:13 am TLG Our diplomatic relations are too strong to be seriously affected by a silly thing like that. Just two things. there is nothing beardo about expecting women to be "obedient" all cultures do it to degree or another. Remember they still say "To Cherish and Obey.." or something like that in many christian church marriages even here in the liberal west. Personally I find confidence attractive in a woman. A meek, shy and retiring creature cooking Samosas all the time is not my cup of tea. And my reason for using profanity was not out of frustration. It is called cultural awareness. I was only responding to young contributors puffing their cheeks and using bad language against me. In Somali culture, it is important to hit back if hit or you lose respect and your opinions will carry no weight. Once you establish your credentials as a guy not to be messed with, you tend to have the ears of others, and perhaps surprisingly it also calms down the situation and everybody hankers down for a serious discussion. Of course all this is silly boyish little machismo and does not apply to women! I am saying this lest you get tempted to start Effin'and blinding all over the net! (just joking)
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| | Sunday, January 07, 2001 - 10:50 am Asalaamu alaikum all, Common I wanted to say a few things on dress code, identity and young muslims. YOu raised very interesting points as to why the men should dress "islamically" too. So, i'll start a new conversation on this topic a lil later insha Allah. Lets leave this area for the topic at hand. As for the topic, Newdeal has explained most of my points with such eloquence, masha Allah, that I need not repeat them. Following on the self suffiency point, I think we can learn a bit from our brothers/sisters of the Jewish faith. Over the summer, I was working in a research lab. The lab tech/supervisor was this Jewish man who I learned a bit from. The guy was sooo strict on eating kosher that he wouldn't buy anything from the cafeteria. If he didn't bring lunch for whatever reason, he would stay hungry all day. Mean while, I would run downstairs and grap a slice of pizza that was very doubtful. Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is that he lives in a lil psuedo-Jewish community. His kids all went to Jewish schools, his wife (who by the way chose to stay at home and not work)runs a program directed at Jewish women. His older daugher organizes summer camps for young Jewish girls. I was really amazed at their organization and committment. I asked my friends how we could create such a community with Islamic principles. All they could come with was, we should all be neighbours when we graduate and get married :-) AS for practical solutions to our problems, I think we need committment and sacrifice. As it was said earlier, yes we can say, we need to do this or that, but are we willing to sacrife everything and actually do what we are proposing?
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| | Monday, January 08, 2001 - 09:31 am New Deal and TGL TGL you made me laugh, the neigbours thing was funny.On that topic, i will drop a little science from my anthropolist friend Margret Mead, she rapped about "never underestimate the power of a few committed individuals to change the world, indeed its all that every has" you and new deal are both i think right about the importance of education. You know what the cool thing about organisations is diffrent people, bring diffrent ideas, and make things happen.Its not that i doubt the importance of education, you guys represent it so well, that i don't know what else to say except lets do this. Besides one of my weakness is converting the abstract into the real So New Deal- Our very own Somali Rosovelt (spelling?) here goes. Okay part of the reason why i think communication is important, is how we gonna educate people (including ourselves) that we don't know?, where are the muslims? who they are?. A girl i know, says i would say A salaam aleikum to more muslim girls, but how am i supposed to know, if they are not wearing the hiibab? ..thats a whole another folder (which TGL has represented to the fullest on) but the point i am tryna make, we are so dispersed, so desolate, so tortued that we don't know where we are. I can sometimes go to sleep a muslim, and feel myself waking up as a kuffar (Allah knows), but we live in a area in which literally there is a constant battle for others to control our thoughts, this ain't a joke, people graduate in the 10,of thousands, to convince you what you need, is a brand new fridge, rather than spend that money on Zakat, or you would look great in that little number, forget the reasons not to wear it, of the least that it is below zero outside We don't know our history, kuffar know our history better than us right?, i mean we rely on them to tell us about it, what if they are lying. People, spend a riddiclous amount of time lying, i have caught myself doing it for practically no reason, its a disease and we need to exercise our demons, we also need to break Taboos Growing up in my house, there was Islam as a fear mechehism, which in a sense is good, becasue if you fear Allah, that is one dimension of worship. But the Quran stayed on the shelf, and you can't really, really fear someone you don't know. thats why people say "i wasn;'t scared becasue i didn't know their was danger". Now what do you think is gonna happen, when we die, and we are asked "who is your Lord?", some of us are gonna freeze, stagefright right?. we maybe be so scared, that even if know that Allah (swt) is the lord of the Worlds, we might not be able to express it. So part of this i think can only be done, like new deal says, through innovative practises, (rather that innovation, which is haraam), Have you noticed how when someone says that is not sunnah, the person may become irritated by that, ie: if it is not compulsory don't even swing it by me. what kind of mental state, would bring such a response, we are in a lowly mental state, do you guys think that education can penetrate it?, if so what kind, traditional? from new deal thought i agree, we need new role models, for youngsters to look up too, we need to produce a ummah, capable of having a just leader, and if we don't do it Allah will replace us with people who will.I think the past every much holds the key to the future, we were a great people, i mean literaly we are decendents of the best of mankind qand we are the ebst of mankind now Prophet Moses ala salam, was reported to have asked Allah (swt), i heard there will be a people who will pray five times a day, oh Allah make them my people, Allah responded No they are the people of Prophet Mohammed(pbuh), Nabi Moses ala salam returned to Allah(swt) and said Allah(swt) i have heard there will be a people who would fast 1 month a year, Oh Allah(swt) make them my people, Allah (swt)replied no they are the people of Prophet Mohammed(pbuh), Nabi Mose alay salam returned to Allah, Oh Allah (swt), i have heard that there will be a people who give a portion of their wealth to charity, please make them my people, Allah relied, they are the people of the Rasoul Ahmed (pbuh). Nabi Moses replied, Oh Allah, make me of the people of Nabi Mohammed.(pbuh) Can you imagine, the Prophet Moses, wanted to be muslim,one of us and we exchange the high for the low, seek comfort in thoughts that mislead us, rest in danger that can only be brought by ignorance. I think it is important that we take our ummah back, they take the best of us. They tell us we are smart, not like the rest, you are not crazy like them, you know how many "compliments" like that i get. "your a modern muslim", "are you orginally muslim", "are your parents muslim", like it is impossible for me to be muslim straight up. Rational. Rational. Rational, every since Webers famous thesis, we have been opted out of history, Modern, particularistc, affective, rational secular societies, is the only thing that is progression, when in fact Webers thesis was only concerning the emergence of a one kind of capitalist enterprise,which has proven to be accidental, rather than universal and all this they deduce from a break from the trancendal faith of Catholism, now can you get your head round the fact that they imagine muslims to be stupid, becasue we belive in Allah(swt), and they won't tell you, but that is why they think we are stupid, what they conceal in their breast, is that you are stupid for beliving in Allah. Can you imagine why they believe this?, becasue their king wanted to get married, the reformation, everyone..everyone..even they admit Henry wanted a divorce the catholic church would not let him have one, so he changed religion for millions of people. and we are the fools?, i don;t blame them, we are fools becasue a) we believe them, b) we have not shown these people, the blesisng and mercy of Allah(swt), we cower becasue they are so deep in their disbielve, you could say, they disbelive, more that we Believe. Now out of the two Believers and disbelievrs, who has the right to more security? Its right there in the Quran, this is the book within there is no doubt, whereas in fifty years, everything i have studied at this school, is gonna crumble into nothing by new ideas. in a hundred years they will call my ideas on economic development, international relations, naive. The Quran will remain untouched. literally, untouched, the muslims may not have picked it up, yet the Kuffar will not disprove a word of it. Does that not scare you, that you should leave this earth,perhaps after 90 years without establishing justice, without, giving Zakaat, without enjoining the good and forbading the bad, will we be save from our knowledge on the Day of recompense?,let alione Allah (swt), how will we stand the pain of knowing there was so much more that could have been done? that we were idol, that we were trciked, distracted, we were jealous, can you imagine explaining to Allah(swt), tghat i wasn't worshipping you becasue i was jealous of that person, who incidently is currently being dragged by their face to the hell fire.(purely hypothetical) We need to rise up out of this condition , help me. In my teenage years, i probably went two three years straight without remembrance of Allah, 2 , 3 years? can you imagine, and there is a story related in which some man was walking by young people, watching a man tell a story, and he sayed "oh if i could buy your time" What we have brothers and sisters, is time, alhumdullilah it is on our side,with Allahs help we need to be powerful people, who achieve things in our time, not kill it, or pass it,watch it or mourn it, long for it, regret. We need to read,, learn and studfy and produice scholars and people, who will work day and night.Manshallah there was one scholar of us,the proof of Islam they call him, he wrote one book called the incoherance of the philosphers, when he was ten there was a man who came to his village, saying is there anyone here who can prove Allah exists as he stood upon a hilltop, everyone was silent, excepet this boy, who replied, i can!, and he laughed at him, and said how will you, when the men, and women have stayed silent, the boy said come here and i will show you, so the man came down, and the boy went to the top of the hill and said "allahu Akbar, God is great, he has lowered you and raised me", manshallah this is a ten year old, anotehr story goes, that there was this man who funded this madrassas, and he got worried becasue people were not studying for the right reasons, so he went to the school he funded and asked some boy, why are you studying here, the boy replied so my parents my be happy, he asked a nother, he said so i may get a esteemed postion in soceity, the man got so worried taht hewas commiting sin that he was thinking of shutting all the schools he funded down, then he saw one boy, in the corner working furiously away, jhe said "a salaam alekium" and the boy said "a leykuim salam", and turned back instantly to his work, whay are you studying ehre, he asked the boy, becasue i want to learn about my craetior he said, i wanna know about the favours the blessings, i wanna know, the man cried and said if tehre is one person in my madrassas liek that, then i will keep them all open, after he got older the boy disppeared for ten years, everyone was looking for him, years later they found huim, he had been cleaning for ten years, when tehy found him, they told him everyone had been looking for him for ten years, why did he go, he said he realised one day that everything he was doing was not for Allah (swt) so he left to teach himself humility, later they say he would have had to write a hundred pages everyday to produce the volume of work he produced. Manshallah, we have our children playing playstation brothers and sisters we have the right to security, let them not steal it, there is a hadeeth which says i think "I (ALLL) swt am in the opinion of my servant, if he thinks highly of me he/she will find that, if they think lowly they will find that", we are in a disempowered sistuation, becasue, we do not know who we are, what we possess, over 90% of the ummah dies without reading the Quran, how would we now , who is lying, who is telliing us the truth, we are shattered, broken into a thousand peices, are phyches are in tramau, we are lost, we don't know where to turn. I seen people literally held in the dark. I walked through a village in the high atlas mountains of Morocco, and seen muslims just kept in ignorance. We are unable to move freely, to learn freely, to think freely, we are keep in this postion, and be warned, it is an external pressure, the external pressure need not regulate us, we do it ourselves, we tell ourleves don't be silly, or don't go over the top, etce tec, when we don't we have Galool to do it for us. My family think i am gonna get beat up casue i wear a khamis, they think i am going to far (but not a good example they worry about everything, casue i am only boy in family and theythink they need me to produce some heirs.lol) We livbe in a low trust culture, every day we hear reasons why we shouldn;t trust each other. i tried to go to a young musklims organisation, and my uncle told me, they are a islamist organisation and they will take you to a training camp in the Yemen. We don't know who we are, well they are gonna make up who we are. we don''t know what we are, they are gonna make that up too. guys, we need to realise,that we have Allah (swt) and we need to rely on Allah (SWT) if we do everything we can to please him, we shall don't be disappointed, if we feel unappcreaited, surely our wages will be the best, we will not be motivated by self ineterest, we are not "homo economous", we are bini adam, we are not driven by greed and desire, taht is what theyw ill have you belive, we are not this, negate this, can we educate a people who don't know who they are?, should we educate them about who they are, i hear you ask, can we eduacte them about who we are?, do we know?. lets pray tonight, inshallah, please do this, pray and ask Allah(swt) to help us, and thats it, if Allah decrees it then it shall be, ask sincerly freom teh deepths of your heart, when asking remember that people die in Somalia every year, reoccuring famine, its called, every year. remember that in Turkey there is a nation, which ahs not been allowed to say Allhu Akbar for 20 years. In Cheynia, women are raped, becasue they are muslims In Afganistan people are starving becasue the United States doesn't like their government. Remember this, and think if your prayers are being accepted?, When Nabi Mohammed (pbuh) was told to return to Allah (swt)and ask for leniency by Nabi Moses after reducing the prayer from many times a day, lastly when told to return because muslims would never pray five times a day, he replied, how can i return?, how can we face Alllah, in prayer, and not be scared, of our actions, of our thoughts, of our behaviour, of our negleigence,our duties abanded, for a cheap price, our smile contorted by leprosy and our back broken by greed, we still bend, we still bend. Think of all this, and cry inshallah i will be think and crying, maybe then we will muster up sincerity, from our depths,and inshallah from the level of depravity rise and be amongst those whose prayers are answered.Please. Please Then we may start if Allah be pleased, and we do for the sake of Allah Your brother in Islam
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| | Monday, January 08, 2001 - 04:40 pm Hey New Deal and Common, Asalaamu alaikum Thanks for the beautiful message, Common. I will try my best to remember to make sincere dua' for our lil endeavor tonight. Their is indeed a power in prayers. The quote frm your Anthro friend about a few individuals been able to change the world brings something to mind. There is this professor friend of mine ( i seem to be talking about my profs and my supervisors a lil too much here). Anyway, the guy is a social reformer in addition to being a biologist. He is very much hated by the biotechnology companies that steal the resources of the third world after he caused the downfall of a few of them. I was just talking to him the other day about politics, America and the Palestinian issue and I was like, Common would love this guy. Anyway, right now, he is working on a project that i'm helping him with. This specific project is about the quality of water in the city. The level of microbes such as E. coli in the water have to be below a specific level for safe drinking. Now, when the ordinary person goes to city hall, nothing really gets done. So, wht this prof is doing is collecting experimental data from water samples as evidence to be presented to city hall, showing that the water is unsafe for drinking. Now, since the university is a private institution, his result or evidence won't really have an effect unless he gets members of the community involved. So, to get around this, he uses high school students (who are essentially members of the community) to do the experiments and get the result that will be presented to city hall. In return these students get a credit in the form of an independent study Unit. So now members of the community (the high school students) have enough evidence (the results frm the experiments) to show that the water quality is bad and so city hall (or the government) has no option but to correct the problem. Neat eh? He also has other problems to deal such as some chemical companyies damping wastes in the water. In some cases, you can't really do any thing because these companies have "special deals" with city hall where they are allowed to damp chemical wastes ABOVE the legal level into the water. Anyway, the point is even one person can make a difference. Small, but non the less a differnce. What we need is determination, commitment and sacrifice. Now, i think we've said most of what we need to do. The question is, how do we acheive these goals? As common said, we are a dispersed people which makes the task a lil harder. Just as an example, the three of us are in different continents (I think). So how do we make our ideas a reality? I have a few radical suggestions but will wait till I hear from you guys. Salaam.
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| | Monday, January 08, 2001 - 11:53 pm TGL Thanks for thinking of me, when you were talking to your professor. I get along with my professors too, my favourite, is a atheist, who fought with the sandinesta, against the contras backed by the CIA in one of america's secret wars, we get on great,can talk for hours, but she has issues with Islam, and i don't know what to say to her. For example i just seen her, and she was like hi!, happy Ramadhan...or am i not supposed to say that, she thinks we are little like the catholics and fast becasue we have sinned, or something, self cathrsomthiung or something i think it is called. Any way funnily enough, i was talking to my fiance, about you a couple of nights ago, i think you and her would get on so great manshallah, she is a little less political than you,or so she thinks (she isn't really.. well a little maybe) but anyway i think you guys would love each other,and have a lot in common and are on the same continent, so just jhave to meet!<smile> although i can't figure out whether you are in Canada, or America, she is in Canada, where is new deal in Africa?, or Australisia?, or Asia, i thought he was with you North America? uhmm.. okay so it looks like i am gonna have to tease those radical ideas out of you.lol... so i will be back to post after somestuff i will leave you all with an Urdu's poets thoughts If man reduces himself (by sinning) he is nothing but a handful of dust, but if uplifts himself (by way of good acts), then this world and the next cannot contain him. or something to that effect be sure wasalaam your brother in Islam
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| | Tuesday, January 09, 2001 - 10:42 am A salaam aleikum Okay i'm back, but i haven't got long cause this place will shut soon. OKay i wanna share something. I was in this Indian resturant once and this guy came in and was asking for money to build a Mosque in Bangaladesh i think or India, anyways, the owner was reclatraint and like, how do i know you gonna give the money or not. Anyother time this missikin came to a Mosque i was at and formerguest knows this story, they kicked him out. Okay fukiyama, this hot shot writer of theres argues that certain cultures have a high trust culture and others have a low trust cultures, he then determines their economic success based on the level of trust in their culture. He used the American society as a basis for the experiement, argueing that all immigrants groups have the opportunity to excell, although he agrees that certain groups face disppropriate predujice, for example the african americans. Anyway, what do you think about Trust in Islam, wasn't one of the signs of the end of time, when people don't trust each other no more. 1 billion people who don't trust one another, don't act like one another, don't support one another and can be bought of easliy, who kill one another and rape one another. Can you imagine a muslim raping another muslism?, or anyone, there is a hadeeth, that says the Prophet relates that my ummah will do like them (christains and jews) even if one of them was to go to his own Mother for sex, there will be someone from my ummah who will do so. Every wonder why the Prophet used to cry about us?, we are the casue of his tears. i feel so embarssed i am sitting here with tears in my eyes again (last night one the other message i was prtety choked up too) okay practical ideas... i was thinking muslim businesses and individuals should pay a zakat, to one source,then that source should be managed approprately to affcetively combating the elimanation of all the ailments of the ummah, poverty, ignorance, warmongering, agression. It could have subdiviosn which specialised in communication, in business management. In a era when everyone is recognising the benefits of working togther in common markets and unions, now we are deciding it is effective?, The rab countries are riddicolous, first they were willing to be divided now that europe has a common market, they want one, what if europe doesn't want Islam, you guessed it. i gonna get into the complete hatred of the Ottoman empire my both Gladstone- commited christain and Disreali- the first jewish leader of England, although he had to "renounce" his faith, he still took out a loan, made england take out a loan of 4 million,. something it has never done before so that it could purchase the Suez canel, and then the tripartie war-that was just disreali gladstone hatred of the ottoman empire was in concealable, these people hate us this joint is cloesing down, sorry folk i kinda digressed huh? forgive me, i will be most beautiful if you have forgiveness okay folk, please as you can tell my ideas are low, hence me freaking out bout gladstone and Disraeli, i am still stuck on the i can't believe they did this stage.. push me to the other side
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| | Tuesday, January 09, 2001 - 12:31 pm Common and TLG, Salaams, It is great that we are discussing how to go about tackling the fundamental problems that plague our people. You know it matters not how small the beginning may seem to be, but the actual initiation of the process. And radical ideas are sometimes necessary to reverse the conditions of people; ay, it becomes a precondition to change the whole of a society. I know we are full of ideas and can propose many mechanisms thru which success can be achieved, but somehow aren’t cashing on those ideas. So, dearest TLG shot your ideas—perhaps they will contain the missing link. Guys, I wanted to leave with you one passage from Henry David Thoreau. He wrote, “How can a man be satisfied to entertain an opinion merely, and enjoy it? Is there any enjoyment in it, if his opinion is that he aggrieved? If you are cheated out of a single dollar by your neighbor, you do not REST satisfied with KNOWING that you are cheated, or with SAYING that you are cheated, or even with petitioning him to pay your due; BUT YOU TAKE EFFECTUAL STEPS at once to obtain the full amount and see that you are never cheated again. ACTION IS FROM PRINCIPLE, the perception and the performance of right, changes things and relations; it is essentially revolutionary, and does not consist wholly with anything which was.” (Henry David Thoreau). So, I guess it is time for us to take EFFECTUAL STEPS at once to REFORM and IMPROVE the conditions of our ummah, and SEE THAT we are never humiliated again. New Deal P.S. Common, I’m actually in America (the united states) and thought you were in Canada but see or sense that you’re in Europe. Now we’re truly in different continents—the communication thing is must!
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| | Tuesday, January 09, 2001 - 08:18 pm Hey brothers. Salaam. I'm kinda exhausted so you guys would just have to wait for another day for those "radical ideas". I kinda feel naive for mentioning that they are radical. Looks like you guys won't suggest anything till I do...lol Remember that project i mentioned earlier about the water quality and the prof? well, tonight was the night the students from the previous semester presented their findings to the community... I'll tell you all about it later insha Allah (that is, if you guys wanna hear it). It is funny we think corruption only exists in the third world. Which reminds me, i'm taking this Poli Sci course as an elective. It is about third world politics. I'm gonna need some help...guess who i'm looking at....lol. Anyway, I'm in Canada. Toronto to be precise though I don't live there during the school year (but not far from it). Common, I would love to meet or get intouch with your fiance. Just tell me when and where. New Deal, where in the States are you? or is it a taboo to ask questions like this on the net? If so, apology is in place. You can tell i'm really tired. I'm making no sense;-) I think I need to log off and get some sleep:-) salaam.
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| | Wednesday, January 10, 2001 - 04:49 am Okay A salaam aleikum TGL please drop me a one line e-mail at Yassin_9@hotmail.com New Deal could you also please swing a one line message my way. then we could establish more concrete tripartaite relations and then we could push them further to idea, and pretty soon sweetgirl and i got formerguest mail address. let the circle be unbroken wasalaam your earnest brother in Islam
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| | Wednesday, January 10, 2001 - 04:51 am i noticed that the email address was obscure.. after the Yassin there is a _9 which is hidden by the whole underlining of the address so it is Yassin_9 at hotmail.com
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| | Wednesday, January 10, 2001 - 08:00 pm Salaam guys, First, common beat me to one of the ideas: Opening the communication line. The other thing I'm proposing is for us to individually implement this suggestions in our neighborhoods. Get a few like minded bros/Sis and start an after school/after work program for the kids. I understand your concerns about the splitting up of the ummah, but I think it is important we start this with our own Community (the Somali community)first. This is not to say that kids that are non-Somalis that live in the vicinity cannot participate. They can and they should, but we should pick a predominant Somali area. I'm sick of seeing Somali Kids being used as statistics when talking about the number of muslim kids "taken away" by the government. I think they need our help the most and besides, it is said, charity begins at home. For our own education thing, we should start up a folder specifically for this and post what we learn. May be even assign topics, people research on it and post it up. Then we can go a step further and share what we learn with our own family members. I'm sure we will have miserable interuptions as far as the folders go, but we'll fight the culprits and cut off their air supplies if necessary. As for me personally, the implementation of any program will have to wait till I graduate since i'm away from home and there isn't any Somali community around here. I'll add more later insha allah. Looks like I always come to the forums tired and exhausted and I forget half the stuff I wanted to say. salaam.
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| | Friday, January 12, 2001 - 06:17 am Salaam, Great ideas, the initiation of which will bore sweet fruits. I'm kind of short on time right now and will add little more sometime this afternoon. But I had a quick question for both of you guys. It is about the communication thing. What sort of printed press you have in mind? I have some ideas, or should I say suggestions, related to this matter which I will relate to you this afternoon. Till then, keep up the good work. New Deal P.s: Common, did you get my message?
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| | Friday, January 12, 2001 - 08:32 am New DEal A salaam aleikum Brother thanks i got your message, inshallah, i am gonna respond in a minute. Okayabout the printing press, i figure, that from my knowldge of history,which is limited, every act of social change has invloved the printing press ,we need to cordinate.please let me know your ideas. TGL and I ,are i think differing on our appoaches, i like it. <smile> she is thinking bottom up and i am thinking top down, perhaps we could do both at the same time. TGL i am worried about the somali community first thing , not becasue those muslims are not a worthy casue, i am just thinking that seeing as we are in countries where the majority of youth speak the same language, ie: english, we should take advantage of that fact and a build a i imagine be hmore genourously funded, cause i think that containment of the new demographic situation in the western world, is huge problem for the lawmakers. and we are already running late, they have already been practically discussing and introducing methods to "contain" us. We should already be a cohesive, and effective lobby in this country. Incidently, what is the deal with that?, how much are we supposed to be invloved in, do we vote, do seek seek to affect parliamentary procudure, what is open to us as muslims, from an islamic perspective, when liviung in non muslim societies? I am worried by concentrating on one particular group of muslims, we are potentially missing out on many "sweet fruits" and we may add to the confusion caused by culural elements affecting the practise of Islam. praying Tarrawih prayer one day, with a Maylsian and a Bangaladeshi, they were asking each other, what madhaab they were and how they did things in their country, now i ain't going into madhaabs casue i have no idea about them, incidently i asked my dad the other day and he told me i was one of them, i think all somalis are one of them right?, anyways my point is, do you think it is right to concentrate on somalis?, or shall we avoid sectarianism altother? Faithful Brother in Islam
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| | Friday, January 12, 2001 - 03:40 pm Asalaamu alaikum brothers, Ok, let me clarify a few things. First, I apologise if I seem overly patriotic when it comes to Somalis. I know a'sabiyah is not permitted in Islam. But, like an uncle of mine said to me once, I feel like I was just born (in reference to discovering his Somaliness). He is a "minor-Galool" though(sorry abtee) so, may be I shouldn't be listening to him that much. Common, i'm familiar with the problems in our Ummah interms of division. Infact, we had a huge problem in our MSA last year due to such kinda things, to the point the whole organization almost fell apart. People started calling each other kufaars and refused to to pray behind each other. Supprisingly, I had no idea of the "politics" of belonging to a specific "group". And the "them" versus "us" stuff. Some people in our MSA even told me what madhab I belong to b/c of how I pray! I was really supprised. Things got sooo ugly that people were told what speakers to invite for Salatul-Juma'ah, which ones to screen out and sooo many other things that i dont'even wanna remember. Anyway, they say things happen for a reason. I learned a lot from this event, alhamdulilah, eventhough my grades suffered (you know me and my diplomacy!). I love Muslims regardless of their "ethnic" background. Infact, I didn't even grow up with Somalis. In the kinda schools I went to as a kid, one was lucky to have a Muslim in their class, forget about a Somali. The reason why I said we should focus on the Somali community first is because we caught the late boat, so to speak. So, we are waaaay behind than other Muslim communities in some things. You guys can disagree with me. I can handle critism quite well, I think (afer all, almost all my courses are based on such: Critical appraisal of research):-) As for the communication thing. Common, you are right. I was thinking more of the "bottom up" thing. We first need to open the communication lines btn us (this is with good intentions), organize ourselves, then open the communication with the community through things like Newsletters, websites...etc. Something feasible geared towards the youth. Common, that madhab thing is a touchy issue. There is an excellent book by Bilal Phillips called "Evolution of the Figh (Islamic law and the madhabs)" that puts this whole topic into perspective. You might wanna check it out. It is a good read and small too...about 160 pages I think. There is also another one entitled, "should a muslim follow a madhab?". This one is more of a booklet...it might be on the web too. I can't remember who wrote it. I wanted to say much more but can't type anymore. Being moved by the whole "it is in you to give" thing, I donated blood today (the Canadian blood services came to campus, they do it every so often). So this lady shoved this huge needle into my vein and fratured it! There was blood all over the place. Being a typical student, after I donated the blood, I quickly went to my thesis supervisor and ask for an extention for my interim report which is due next week :-) I got it. What can I say? He couldn't deny me one... i'm adorable...lol I hope I'm not too ambiguous. Let me know if you guys need clarification on some of the these things. Salaam.
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| | Saturday, January 13, 2001 - 07:42 am Salaam, Okay, I think we started rolling the ball, so let's not stop it. I first wanted to comment on how to approach things and would share with you my feelings on the community thing on other times. Personnaly, I belief the fundamental problem that faces the Somali community stems from lack of formal education. As such, a grass-roots initiative seems to make more sense. Since both of you used the infamous "bottom up vs. top down" approach, let me postulate about which methodolgy I think will work the best. In that regards,I found myself in argeement with TLG that a bottom up approach may serve our intended purposes more than the top-down appraoch. I think this is why. History has proven that grass-roots initiatives always produced favorable results when the approriate methodology is used. So, here is few things I think would initiate such grass-roots initiatives. First, though TLG beat me to this one, the very first step ought be opening communication line between us, members of the new generation who want to change things. "Networking" is a key to every successful activity, and can be achieved if there are very few individuals who chose to be concerned and willing to take the road less traveled. The question becomes, how do we open the communication lines? 1. We must be willing to sacrifice something: a protion of our time, our pocket, and the like. 2. In agreement with TLG, we must communicate withing ourselves first and foremost. This can be done thru the printed press which, as Common rightly suggested, has been the key to the success of every social change movement. 3. Once communication lines are created within ourselves, this services can be extended to reach the common folk and the masses of the community. 4. The creation of such network would result the birth of a group willing to change the course of their peoples. A good friend of mine was reminding me the other day how an "elite" group of educated man had been the cause of social change in every developed nation and civilization. 5. And lastly, we must understand that this is our duty, our civic duty to be more specific. Brother Common has articulated this matter very clearly, and did much better job then I woud have done, in his early postings and mentioned couple of times how if we don't understand it as such, Allah will replace us with people who fear him and willing to take their duty seriously. I couldn't agree with him more. Secondly, we must analyze things past and why they succeed or failed. Experiments of the past hold the key for the future. As a science student, as TLG would agree (I think), you do an experiment and see whether it proved your hypothesis or disproved it. In other words, we should study those before us who attempted this honorable things but failed or succeed. Studying the techniques of the unique generation of the Sahabis upto the twenthies century islamic revival attempts I think would give us a clear picture of which attempts produced fruits and which ones did not. I think we need to change our way of thought and try to see these things in their true character. And lastly, TLG, critizism is essential part of every successful attempt. Things that are not critized always seem to be valueless, because thru critizim when sees the wrongs of this thoughts or their rightness. Agreement and agreeing to disagree are also fital part for the success of any attempt to change socia status. Excuse me for sharing with you such nonsense message. BUt guys, I like your ideas and I think we have something to look forward. Assalamu Alaikum, New Deal
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| | Sunday, January 14, 2001 - 04:10 am Sheish Kebab! A salaam aleiukm Dear brothers and Sisters. It appears science is inescapable, alas my brothers are envloped in the methodology that i hate But on the flip side i like you guys, so what is the english expression? swings and roundabouts!, you have it your way sometimes and others you don't. Besides on this issue , i think you are to a certain extent both right, with the grass roots idea, the sucessful grass roots projects however, often have huge finacial backing, ie: we must stay entirely sentitive to both the large grand scehme of things and at the same time start from the bottom. Here is my one major concern. I love somalis, however am very concerned about focussing exclusivly on somalis even if it is for the initial period of our beginning.Dear sweet muslims, i am worried that it is not wise, please convince me that it is wise, so i may agree with you, oh kindhearted ones. Here is why i worry. I think you must be careful when asserting identity, becasue something that appears innocent can have bad consequences. Bear with me for a minute TGL while i run through this, then i will move on to your "late boat" reason okay walaal. Okay essentially nationalism is a doctrine that was born at the beginning of the 19th century in Europe.The ideas were swimming around since the enligtment, but this is when it became promenient Despite what Galool would have you believe, and this is a sore subject for a lot of somalis, or indeed anyone who loves their country, humanity is not neatly divided into nations, there are many day problems with this both in muslim and non muslim countries, but i will focus on the evolotion of nationalism, its implications for the ummah to date and its implications for any future project we may have. Okay around the time of the french revolution, there was a move in europe from the divine right of kings to the will of the people. In this period of the enlightment and herafter, democracy and nationalism, became emotive issues, one writers argues that democracy moved from something which can be discussed rationally like a steam engine or a disinfectant to a mystical religious symbol. Okay so guys, take a seat here, becasue we are gonna discuss these issues like they are a disinfectant. Because this concepts were invloved in the national liberation struggles of europe, they hold them in very high regard. However we need to recognise, especially in the face of Africa (which i could go on for days about) that this ideas, are not universal, they are largley unique and accidental. First of all for the ummah, we never needed to be split up really due to the fact we were not run by a king, the Islamic ummah had a civil society which existed in the state ie: a breathing space between the state and the individual. So please not that these ideas were as one arab writer puts it "were imported solutions". Writers who wish to see it otherwise argue, no what was happening at this time was a "world time" context and everyone was gradually beginning to erode the rights of kings and in the east " emirs and sultans" had to go. Now this arguement is flawed one becasue Islam does not have a world time context, and two becasue soverignity never lay with a person , in the Islamic state Allah was mulk,giddens refers to the rapid transformation of the world into the cultural straightjacket of the nation state as the world adopting the pecularities of europe at the time it was a really silly idea, which they dreamed up essentially becasue the french had a beef with the nobility over property rights in Alace, a complex issue which meant that they now longer had to recognise international treaties or laws, kind of like when the Bolsheiviks came in to powers and said we ain't paying no monies the Tzar owed the world, execpt what the french where saying that they would not be willing to ackowledge any thing other than "justice" as a reason for conducting affairs.Incidently now if you look at the countries "kingdom of Morocco" and "kingdom of Saudi Arabia" they have taken the title of Mulk in their names, which is an attribute of Allah (swt) i don't know if the French really believed what they were saying, perhaps they were deluded becasue they went to incredible lengths to prove that this thing, which didn't really exist, was real. letters on the love of the fatherland 1779 " the good of a society is yours. Without realising it (note noone realises it), you are so stongly tied to your fatherland, that you can neither isolate, nor seperate yourself from it without feeling the consequence of your mistake. If the government is happy, you will prosper: if it suffers harm its misfortune will react on you. Similarly if the citizens enjoy a honest opulance, the soverign prospers, and if the citizens are overwhelmed with poverty, the condition of the soverign will be worthy of pity. Love of teh fatherland is not therefore a mere concept of reaon {yeah right} it exists really... do you not see? that if the government were to lose these provinces, it would thereby become enfeebled, and losing consequently the resources it had drawn from them and would be less able to help you in case of need" written earlier on On the love of the fatherland 1772 "have we a fatherland? if we can find a place where we can rest with our possessions, a field to sustain us, a home to cover us, have we not there a fatherland?. declaration of the rights of man and the citizen "the principle of soverignty resides essentially in the nation: no body of men, no individual, can exercise authority that does not emanate expressly from it". Now this is all pretty good stuff, Europe was under despotic leadership, absolutism and tyranny at the time, this was in essence a good move for them. The problem comes when they start messing with the rest of the world, effcetively what happens as far as i can see, is that they sell us liberation, and fredom from the Ottoman empire, only to devour us as colonies ,mandates, procterates. Of course they will pervert your history, for that is what colonies do : see franz fannon , I swear they will sit you down, and tell you that the Ottoman empire was a colonist, despite irrfutable evidence to the contrary,. Now i do not know exactly what the Ottomain empire was like,but it was not a colony, everyone was equal uneder that system of government and be sure, be sure, that it was undermined by well meaning Chrsitain missionarries who set up secret societies largely consiting of Arab Christians, although they later realised that they would need muslims to make it work. and then we ended up with a situation in which muslims were fighting muslims in Mecca can you belive, the sharif (i forget his name) which held the keys to the two holy sites, secretly conducted correspondance with a british agent called mcphereson, in which the british promised the arabs independenc if they revolted against the turks. They at the time, were walaahi shaking literally about the Ottomain empire calling a Jihaad, in which people under their emipire (sorry i have jumped to the early 19th century and the first world war) wpould be on the side of the triple entre of germany turkey and someone else russia i think or italy, so they promised us this and that, and next thing you know muslims are in disarray.This is documented history, we need to learn what excatly happened way back then hang on what happened inbetween,i here you ask i mean it was all good at the beginning, ideas of liberity and equality. Article V of the French consituion of 1790 decleard "the french nation renounces all wars of conquest and will never employ her forces against the freedom of any people" next thing you know she is running across the globe killing muslims. Essentaily we were sold a rotten dream the muslims were only ever feared military in stength, otherwise they were nothing , we were weakened in body and in spirt by our conquesters, and the legacy remains the same today. the structures of the higly arbitary inorganic borders placed upon the muslims had a devestating effect on the ummah, we started identifiying our selves as somalis, afgans, saudis nigerians, etc etc. Now Islam never came to overtake culture, unless it was a ugly act, but yet this imagined communties that we live in onlt serve to divide us, so of what benefit are they. I know this is hard for you to imagine, life not being a somali, but think about it, you are a somaliand diffrences exist between the ummah however this are supercifical diffrences and have been promoted to such importnat ones , this is highly irrelevant to your life and prayer scarifice and death, surely all for Allah (swt). Rememeber the Prophets last speech (pbuh) when he adivised about no arab being better than a non arab and visa versa, was that in vain? yes there are genetic diffrences between the ummah, manshallah that is beautiful, however this does not make us a different people, the muslims are one. Once we accepted the exterior trappings of being a somali things progress, we create a history, a flag, the cold war funds our projects and we go off into the deep end, lossing lives for the sake of irredenist claims for the "illusive somali". The five stars on our flag represent how entrenched this pursuit was. On top of this you have to understand the framwork with nationaislm and democracy- closly linked are set. The premise they are born from- is which may make you laugh how simple and ludicrous it is is pleasure and plain. The whole essence of life, these people decided was the maximation of pleasure and the minimisation of pain. Now lets just for arguemnt sake say this is a good model for life, what has the Nation state brought but economic nationalism, and two world wars in europe and countless bloodbaths in Africa our home continent and misrey elswhere, hence the introduction of supranational organisations the Un world bank etc etc. Now what i here you ask, do they wish for africa, if essentially the pursiut of happiness is the purpose of life, they don't care about other peole, becasye self interst is what they assume motivates people and it is in their self interst that africa stays exactly in the postion that it is in today. However they will tell you how to "develop" what you need is democracy, what you need is a anti corruption drive, this are the jist of the new ideas, they will not mention the fact that we got it wrong, over the 20th century the casue of so much death and pain, was the curse of the nation state and border disputes which never even remotely resembled the ideal types envions by the promoters- read Basil davidson, Africa and the curse of the nation state. You simply cannot trust kuffar in this matter, less than 20 years ago, during the cold war, the U.S was arguing that corruption was good in the third world and that the disticntion between where to use corruption and where not to use it, as practiseed in the United states was a sign of maturity in social practises, and the retention of it, would appease those who were excluded from the pratorain polity of the third world: ie new political actors. They argued that what you needed was authority, you needed to govern, sternly, hence the authoritain regimes of the 80s, now it is agreed by the "international community" that what you need is democracy, "freedom is not the luxury of the haves, but the very condition of devlopment" write the economist lareual Amarya sen, the career econnomist would say that. Just like Kofi anaanan is a career diplomat (TGL tell people o stop calling you that name his politics suck.. by the way if you need more convinving, i will play on nationalism.. he he he , he called somalia a "black hole" once the communist threat had gone, they switched position, and now we have come full circle to the ideas of the enlightment. Man do you not see?, we need to reject dogma of a west high on its own nostagia and esteem.We need to think outside the confines of a thought process which has been drenched in gluttony, yeah you will be hated, and ridducled and ostracised, but don't worry they even do that to all great thinkers, they killed socrates, malcolm X, anyone who thinks, they tend to kill, as it is dangerous, in affecting the status quo. Think back over concepts that you take for granted, little things, the little things, can have major consequences. They stand over us, in our lives they are the inviliators of our thoughts ,our ideas, our expressions, if they disapprove we are fundementalists or terrorists. the Newspapers don't print my letters in this counry, i would be more worried if they did, yet we cower in the corner as a scarlet stained west, hisses at us, we watch her get dressed, and when she leaves we wear her clothes, she calls us names, and when she is not looking we go over to the mirror and wish we were her, then we break down ,knwing that it is not right to think that we run from the shade of Islam to the sun of the west, and then unhappy return in a circle which doesn't break, that is continous Most muslims will dennounce the west, but secretly they admire it, they are jealous of its achivements its gains and they wonder why we are so unfornutate, not knowing perhaps it is their mental state which reduces us. Yes the west has nice things manshallah, but we need to recognise that fact and move on. i have gone way of topic here right?..sorry guys i hope you can make sense of what i have written, what i am trying to say is that, we ourselves, kind of like in your scientific way need to identify our flaws in oursleves, our thought process, our inpurtites our value systems before we approach any work in the community. who are we?.. who are the muslims?.. what do they believe what do we stand for? Think deeply and reflect on how much of your identity is in reaction to the west, and how much of it is for the sake of Allah, it is a painful question, which i struggle with. I know everything i do is not of the sake of Allah, and it is embarassing just to type that, but we must break these barriers, we must get rid of our negative traits. Do we know what we are not about, more than we know what we are?, is everything we do in reation to the kuffar?. what kind of muslims would we be if there were no kuffar on this earth?, those question hold a key to shaping our identity and our organization. I think new deal is right, there are thousands of organizations out there, which are Islamic in character, what is special about this one?, what must be special about this one. Do you not see why it cannot be a "somali" community organisation? Your brother in Islam ps: new deal can you stop apologizing for your messages?please sahiib your imput is most beloved to me and other i would imagine
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| | Sunday, January 14, 2001 - 05:22 am Those who say France first are patriots, those who say France but, are apostates of humanity. Does the "but" that resides in the ummah, hold any less a heavy inditment?
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| | Sunday, January 14, 2001 - 05:52 am I am back Sorry last message. I just wanted to say, that the sunnah and practises of the sahabis argued by New dael is the single most important thing, he is "dead right" to use another english expression We need to note, i think (tell me if i am wrong please people), that right after we recognise that the west is quite good at what it does, and applaud the good aspects of their behaviour, we need to recognise, not out of line with the Marxist view of Capitalist industrialisation;or indeed the view any non partisan observer of Modern history would find, that with this type of development comes a specific and limited type of knowledge/information First of all we break the myth of being in awe of a people who don't even believe in Allah (swt). woe! what a lowly postion to have of one self?, consider the man who believes that a ship can not be made with out a owner, yet a man can just appear, and then you will see a clear indication of the type of knowledge produced by the west. All knowledge comes under the framework of the pursuit of happiness. Any thing else will just remain ignored. So there you have it, we as muslims have a responsiblity, to seek knowldge as far as china, to stop the hunger, and explore things in sciences, humanitities, social sciences, which are guided by different principles. They have no monopoly on the truth, in fact they have little calim to it, if you consider the motivation behind every action, actions are by inetntion only. Imagine living and breathing, fighting and dying,learning and studying, for the extention of life, for the hedonism of pleasure, for the pursuit of worldly gain?. Can you imgaine what type of knowldge this would produce?. Ya Allah! In conclusion is it true?, that there love for all this, is more than our love for Allah (swt), for the deen and the ummah?, of course it is true, otherwise what we are witnessing today would not be true. Children die year , after year after year in Somalia, every year, they die again, every year! they die again, every year, they die from lack of food, yet is there not plenty in this world?, food production outstrips world population and has done for the last 20 years or so. Mathusain ideology has been discredited,i mean it was so riddiculous i am not even gonna go it to it furthermore, there are millions of edible plants out there, in Ghana 2500 alone, that are known, think about how many we do not know of. Now what are we gonna say on the day of judgement?. why are we not at the forefront of this research. Have you seen those "food aid" bags that have United Kingdom or U.S.A stamped on them, they don't care who starves, its is all about promoting their image of power and esteem, and we do nothing but sit around and wait for them to deliver it? we need to get up and do something, otherwise nothing will change. Okay sorry went a little nuts again. On being effective, we are witnessing a era, in which power relations are gonna be strugglingto maintain hegdemony, and to break hedgmony Firstly we can safely assume that countries are no longer the sole players in world affairs, certain powerful companies and groups and individuals have annual turnovers bigger than even most european countries. we need to use the advantage global communication and the fact that the demography of the ummah has changed the face of the west. we are here in numbers, we have access to resources and must utilise them. I think we gotta be smarter, faster, work harder than the kuffar we have to wake up earlier, learn more, be exellent in all that we do and then use our skills to maximise the needs of the ummah, of cousre despite this "new era" we are disadvantaged, our communty is the poorest, the most ill educated, the weskest, teh most divided. But we have to change that ourselves, and it will neither be easy nor will we be thanked for it. Dear brothers and sisters, i love you for the sake of Allah (swt) and we must do for the sake of Allah, that way, no demoralisation,. no burn out,no compassion faitgue. where is the greatest nation raised from mankind?. stand up and be counted Your brother in Islam
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| | Monday, January 15, 2001 - 05:14 am Common, I’m very sympathetic to your point view and confess to a degree that it’s an accurate reflection and the mirror image of how I feel about this things. I had a long discussion and lengthy conversation about this subject with my best “brotherfriend,” who is from Syria, and best “sisterfriend,” who is American. We miserably attempted to hypothesize why Muslims in the west are compartmentalized: Somalis hang out just with Somalis, middle easterners with middle easterners, those from Asia with Asians—the Paks and Afghans being a good example here, and American Muslims with American Muslims and so forth and so on. The very idea of toning the terms American Muslim, Pakistani Muslim, African Muslim, Arab Muslim and whole list of other labels and association is problematic. If we truly understood the concept of Al-Islam Diin Lil-Alam, the universality of Islam, then we would have Islam in America and the West reflect that concept. Unfortunately, because of the weakness of our Iman and status in general, we don’t truly appreciate the value of this idea. It is true that a Muslim has no other bonding except thru that of Islamic brotherhood: bonds of flesh and blood just being earthly bonds and nothing else but just that. Why do I strongly feel that we, those of us who live in the west, have failed Islam in this particular instance? I argue so because back home, and this is directed towards those of us who were born and raised in Somalia or at least lived there partially, had a valid excuse to associate only with Somalis. This is was the case since the air we breath was Somali, the stone we ran into a Somali, the weird and the common folk a Somali, and everything that surrounded us was Somali. Our hospitality and brotherhood were extended to those who visited us from other parts of the world. But in America and the West, we are not only surrounded by our kind but other Muslims of different ethnicities. Ideally then, we should intermingle with other Muslims and the true nationality of the Muslims reflected in our practice. Again, the case isn’t so for obvious reasons, and the need to change crystal clear. Now, while I appreciate your historical perspective on the birth of nationalism, I think we should not doubt that of nation states. Yes we are all Muslims yet we are from different states. This is a Sunnah of Allah that he made among us nations and groups for the purposes of recognition. Does that mean we should be nationalistic? No, and No, and No. But what does nationalism mean? I guess we have a sense of what this means. I can say this, a Muslim’s nationality is his belief; it is this belief that shapes what he thinks, what he fights for and a whole list of other issues. That said, I think we should divide our society into two groups: a group who lives in the west and a group who lives back home. Our dealings with these two groups must be as diverse as the two groups themselves. The response would and ought be different, the way we tackle the problems also different and divergent. We are not emphasizing the Somali problem because we are ignoring our identity as Muslims—indeed the true identity of a Muslim is his belief—but we are emphasizing it because we seem to understand the Somali problem more than others can understand or relate to. It’s us who can relate to and understand the Somali problem more than anyone else or any other group. Even in the west, the Somalis seem to understand the uniqueness of the problems related to the Somali communities. That said our brotherhood in this part of the world should be borderless in the sense that we can all relate in one language and live under the same roof. I think this point needs more clarity and will be willing to discuss this much more.
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| | Monday, January 15, 2001 - 08:04 am Dear New Deal Brother A salaam aleikum saxiib How are thing?, i will inshallah be e-mailing you when my exam finishes tommorrow, hook me up with somes prayers if you get the time Okay "I think we should divide our society into two groups :A group who lives in the west and a group who lives back home" I found it hard to find something i disagreed with in your message, the the above quote is an example of what i observe as a practical solution to the de facto reality of muslims who live in Nation States with very socially real if artificial borders. You were very clear in explaining your postion and very humble in doing so, so i will stop the compliments becasue i think you are the kind of brother who gets embarassed when complimented, a sign of modesty manshallah Here is what i want to make sure is clear brotherman. "nation" does not precide nationalism, neither is ethinicty the determant of nation or nationalism, i know you are thinking, what is the brother on about. Let me try and explain.We are indeed from different groups, however the ummah is one nation, isn't that a hadeeth? the ummah is like a body, when one area is affected the rest of the body is affected. Okay you say that certain groups are well positioned to help certain other groups , for example somalis in the west are more able to help muslims in somalia, due to a shared lanaguge and a sense of identity. Now what if were to say the opposite was true, that the best postion to help somalis from would be a united Islamic postion from the west. If you look around the world today muslims suffer individually, everyone feels pain and bears it individually. If the arab is called a terrorist we say nothing, if the African is called a Nigga we they say nothing, the malaysian a chinky eye etc etc. i mean we even say this things ourselves. You point out that we are in the same condition, but from what i under stand you want us to be kind of realistic in our dealings On being effective, yes Somalis can be most effective in dealing with somali inflicted areas of problems and issues, however without full support from a broad cohesive community no one will benefit. The Bosnians will be ignored, the somalis will be ignored, the Iraqis will be ignored. From any perspective our greatest chance in achiveing anything substanial is unity, we lose that and just take a look around. The problem is few believe in the Islamic notion of brotherhood, becasue state activities are involved in defining differences. Saddam hussien for example spent millions re creating the hanging gardens of bablyon, to show the Iraqis, how "great" their period of jahalliya was, so that Iraqis could be proud of being "Iraqi". Being nationalistc, is a requirement of being part of a nation state, as it is the legitimcay on which is bases it self.The nation doesn't exsit until nationalism exsits, then both exsist. saxiib, that the nation- state is in any way real is not true. Real confusing i know, It is a hard thing to take it all at once,and i am bad at explaining it, but i have confidence in you. Manshallah you seem very smart,If you tried explaining to be about metobolic pathways, i would have fainted by now. be sure my friend that it is a highly socially constructed thing. Indeed from a perspective of humanity , most of us have lived with out these nations for longer than we have with them they are only two centuries old, and despite what you would imgaine they are very fragile, hence the millions they spend on maintaing their own security, as they have both intergrationalist and disintergrationists messing with their borders. But perhaps i am wrong, please let me know The Khalaafa is a ver scary subject for muslims, becasue the misakiin who call for it are often dismissed as crazy people, just for the record this has less to do with a Islamic state, and more to do with the Nation state as a legitimate entity, and the Islamic communities that reside within this states. Now you can't have a Islamic state without a Islamic people, and you can't have a Islamic people who think like an "afgan" and a "somali", do you see what i am saying, we have a perfect opportunity to break this cycle in the west, we also have an opportunity to continue it?.. what road shall we take? You confuse me saxiib , you seem to understand all the issues, but are hestitant in letting go off your "somaliness" you are taking the middle path, maybe this is very wise. Your brother in Islam look forward to your response
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| | Tuesday, January 16, 2001 - 08:08 am Salaam, Common Perhaps I should change my nick from New Deal to Confuse Ya! Anyways, I hope you bombed your test if you already took it, if not my prayers are with you. First I should relate to you some of my feelings. I have tested the true meaning of brotherhood in Islam only in the few days I attended my Uni, for my MSA not only reflected people from different parts of the Muslim world—from Tunisia to Tanzania, Somalia to Saudi, Bahrain to Bosnia, Algeria to Afghan etc, etc—but also reflected the true meaning of brotherhood in Islam. We were one and inseparable, to the degree that some of us worried greatly how our ideas would be affected when we go to the real world where such bondage didn’t exist? You’ll go to the local mosques and witness the division among the Muslims in national bondage. So you ask me is the ummah one nation? And the answer is outright yes. We are one ummah and must work to end the internal differences that separate us. I think our prophet (pbuh) succeeded in that attempt and anyone who follows his footsteps will. The question is how to go about achieving it? To me, I don’t think it is right for Muslims living outside their homes to associate with each other solely because of their nationality. As I argued earlier, a Muslims nationality is his belief—since that is what shapes his political and social ideology and all other things. Thus, when living in the same environment, say in the west or any other land in the face of the earth, our bondage and associations must be dictated by our Islamic identity. This is why I argue that those of us in the West must bond together solely on our Islamic identity. But can the same be said about the Muslims of Morocco or Jordan or Somalia? I think not, for all the surrounds them are Moroccan, Jordanian or Somali. Do you the distinctions I’m trying to draw here? So, there is valid excuse when you are living in those nations to associate with your kind, but in the west your kind are Muslims from all walks of life and every ethnicity. Of course you argued that we should get rid of borders and things like that since they’re artificial and infant in their existence. I can disagree with you in one sense, but also I can’t deny the fact that we can call home where we originated. Somaliness really doesn’t matter to me as much is Islamicness matters. Many of the nations of our fellow Muslims are stable, at least in terms of governance and in blindness to the injustice and violations that find common denominator in these nations. On the other hand, our fellow countrymen, if you allow me using this term, are at lost in every sense of the word. All those things that can define the existence of a society are nonexistent. The elements that demand social change brought forth are all but present in the Somali society. This matter itself alone demands that special attention be given on the Somali problem. Because of the status the ummah is in, I think we will agree that we can only correct the past wrongdoing of our society and not expect anyone else to do that job for us. The fundamental question is who can solve the Somali problem? And though it’s interchangeable with the problems of the ummah yet is it not true that only the Somalis can work to correct their problems? My comments here are only concerned with my fellow Somalis back home and not in relations to the Muslims of the West—for I believe the nature of this group is different. The Muslims of the West must reflect the true nature of Islam; create one family and single brotherhood rather than ethnic groups. Would such an attempt mean ignoring other nations and letting them suffer on their own? I hope not, for the pain and suffering of the Bosnian society and Palestinians is also my pain and suffering. The old lady, the grandma that is climbing mountains in the Balkans, with great deal of anguish and pain, is also my grandma, for we are bonded together by Islamic relationship that is more powerful then the earthly and blood relations. If anything, what this attempt means is that our responsibility would be two-faceted: one directed towards the greater cause of the ummah, and the other directed towards the cause of those who we can relate to in terms of earthly blood. Another explanation can be given here. Our aim is to revive Islam, our desire to ensure the justice of Islam, social justice that is, becomes reality. Thus the journey is long and the attempt needs clarity of purpose and willingness to suffer. But every journey has to start from some point; it cannot start from all over the place. There has to be a group of people who undertake such task and who are willing to take a journey unlike any other. Amble opportunities in our society indicate that we can be such a group. If we create system that reflects the true nature of Islam at home and exhibit such system to the rest of the Muslim world, you can rest be assured that the masses will follow you. My argument here is that, we can be a model for fellow nations if we correct what went wrong in our society and if we achieve social system that reflects what Allah wants societies of people to be. That will be doing a great favor not only for our society but also for fellow Muslims and humanity in large. I’m assuming that I made more confusing arguments! If so, I’ll attempt to explain myself better next time. New Deal
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| | Tuesday, January 16, 2001 - 10:19 am Manshallah. That was very clear, and made way too much sense don't assume <smile> saxiib, you outdo your self with every post. I understood exactly what you were saying, and find you most agreeable <smile> Thanks for taking the time, the exam was bad, but everyones says that when they come out of exams anyway About Somalia i think you are right Hey you know whats funny, i talk like people i am talking to, i was talking to a couple of malaysian muslim boys, and becasue we see each other so much, there is massive malaysian community here, i have started speaking like them in english.lol. so i have this far east accent, mixed with a british one, very funny its like "eeeh you beeen shoo-pping ah?" i dig the way they talk. Dear brother may Allah(swt) shower you will his blessings, and rainments, may he wash you of your sins with water snow and with sleet. I will e-mail you soon your brother in Islam
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| | Thursday, January 18, 2001 - 07:25 pm Asalaamu alaikum brothers. I hope you are both doing well. Sorry, I didn't mean to disppear on you guys. I got tied up for a while with wordly things, subhanallah! New Deal, good thing you stopped apologizing. I was thinking of beating you up :-) Common, Insha Allah you will do well in the exam. Ok, now for the topic, I think New Deal conveyed my message well. So, there is no point in repeating wht he said. Common, i'm not a Nationalist walalo. Infact, I know very little about this Somalia/Somaliland i'm crying for. But I agree Kofi Anaan's politics suck. It is just that I see some problems in the Somali community that can best be solved by Somalis. Your messages are so earnest and sincere and I don't wanna corrupt your innocent out look on life and how things ought to be in our Ummah. Walaahi sometimes, it could feel your pain. A while back, I had kind of the same perspective but I realized, sometimes we have to put realism before zeal. I'm not implying that we should neglect the problems in our Ummah as a whole and just concentrate on the Somalis. What i'm saying is that I think the Somalis need our help the most at this time. Show me a group that is in need of our help today more than the Somalis and walaahi I'll drop this discussion and agree with you in tending to their needs. Ok, what about the education thing? What do you guys think of my proposal to set up folders (or even through a mailing list) where all the participants contribute in enriching our knowledge? Perhaps even assigning topics and sharing the findings with the rest. Anyway, let me know wht u guys think. Salaam.
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| | Saturday, January 20, 2001 - 11:42 am Assalaamu Alaikum, Some interesting suggestions TLG. Don't we have to worry about how much input this is gonna need? and what are advantages of the creation of such folders and how are we gonna control? Spell it a bit more. Wow, it seems the opening of schools, the real start of the new year and all have busied people! Maca Salaama yaa asxaab.
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| | Saturday, January 20, 2001 - 06:59 pm Asalaamu alaikum, New Deal, what do u mean by "how much input"? If you are asking how much time we are gonna spend on such a task, it shouldn't be that bad. I'm sure we are all at different levels of knowledge and some will have to work a lil harder than others. Mine is pretty pathetic, so i'm gonna need a lot of help. And I would probably need to spend a lil more time in doing some research which I don't mind, coz I have a spiritual defeciency right now (I don't really do anything constructive as far as acquiring Islaamic knowledge goes). So this might be just the perfect thing for me. Ofcourse, I wouldn't wanna impose this on you guys if you don't have the time to do it. As for the folder thing, I was just thinking about it. It doesn't seem to be such a bright idea after all. May be we could do this through a mailing list. Do you guys have any other suggestions? Looking forward to your feedback. Salaam.
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| | Sunday, January 21, 2001 - 03:09 am Dear New Deal and TGL A salaam aleikum hi brother and sister in Islam, i know i been absent for a hot minute but i still love ya'll for the sake of Allah (notice how i use the american expression "ya'll" for want of expediency, if you were to hear me pronnounce it with my british accent you would all laugh) I think TGL's idea is very cool, but this is really becasue of my particular circumstances too, i also need to learn more about the deen. I mean we all do..but i really need to About how much time it would take and what form this learning would take,New deal is asking valid questions, but we could quit coming here and doing this posting, if we strated a email circle or something, where we all had homework and research to do on Islam I heard this lecture tape the other day Sheikh Hamza Yusef, manshallah such a nice imaan, may Allah (swt) be pleased with him, and he was saying that augmentation was a thing unloved by Allah (swt) and his Prophet, so i don't think i will be going the rounds with Galool and Mad Mac anymore,. in the Quran clearly it says not to argue with them right? he was also pointing out that at a time when the lowest level of education and knowledge amongst the muslims exists (ie: now), when all the great muslim universities are redundant or hijacked, we have the greatest amount of argumentation, that is a sad indidment, we know less, much less, but think we know more and express this forcefully.Our scholars wouldn't speak on a subject until they knew it, really knew it,i think, one scholar wouldn't give a Fatwa in Mecca until he had permission from 72 different scholars nowadays if someone doesn't answer something, we assume they don't know, when it is more likey the more you know, the more you will keep quiet. Its like this little thing i read on a young muslims newsletter, "the tongue weights practically nothing but so few can hold it", and also reminds me of Eryka Badu who crooned, "the man that knows something, knows he knows nothing at all" On the flipside, i also heard (can't remember where) that we are supposed to express our faith articulatly and in the Quran it says we are to reason with them, and ask them to consider. So is it, do you guys think, that we need to strike a balance or that one should come before the other?. Aslo if our Islamic knowldge is lacking, are we doing things for other reaons (this is mainly for myself and TGL.. new deal tends to stay out of the galool and Mad mac debates) than the sake of Allah (swt) TGL this isn't to project my findings of my own behaviour on to you(I have realised i get caught up in the debate and get carried away, so i am letting it slide_, i am not doing it for the sake of Allah(swt), then it is pointless, i just want to to do it for the sake of Allah,(swt) so you may inshallah please Allah,(swt) if you are doing so, then manshallah already. reason i point it out, is that non of us truly believe until we want for our brother (in this case sister) what we want for ourselves. wasalaam beautiful ones ps: TGL i didn't think you were a nationalist . never that.
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| | Sunday, January 21, 2001 - 09:45 am Common I have been watching this discussion from the sidelines, and I am pleased it is progressing so well. I am saddened to hear you decided not " to go the rounds" with me. I blame this Yusef Hamza fella. I bet he does not apply this rule to himself, since he did a two-hour khudba and then sat in a circle with dozen dew-eyed followers hanging on to every word he says! Well anyway, I still got my TLG and if I get too desperate for pointless verbal punch-ups, I can always count on ANON! Now he can go few rounds with anyone!
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| | Sunday, January 21, 2001 - 10:17 am Salaam Guys, Common, You are cool as long as you write the American expressions and not actually say them! You know, and I should say this for reasons I don't know, when I want to laugh on thursdays I watch c-span and the program titled "questions with the prime minister" and listen MPs questioning the prime minister, actually just to hear the british accent! You guys are funny. Okay, getting bit serious, I had few comments about debating with others. I actually think that debates are necessary and must. I don't see any thing wrong with arguing non-Muslims or non-Islamists in a rational and scholarly manner. And when I say "scholarly" manner my intention is that we all follow arguments based on respect and attempt to understand each others points rather than arguing for the sake of argument. I agree with you that we should debate for the sake of allah and not because we want to show others the superiority of our knowledge or, i don't know, something else. When should we refrain from arguing with others? I would think when someone crosses the line and resorts back to insulting and defemation. In other words, if they tend to insult Islam or the prophet of Islam rather than pointing out their disagreement or refusal to see our point view, then that is when we say our ways must depart. This is how i see the matter and I could be very wrong. About your precious time. You must have time and it is not optional my friend. We must all have time no matter what we do. I'm sure you are busy but I'm also sure you sincerely care about the conditions of the ummah and as such willing to put in little time. TLG, Sister your idea is not only bright but SUPER bright. That could be the very first step towards opening the greater communication lines that Common so cleverly outlined. When I asked the questions posted above, what I had in mind was how should we go forward with this bright project. So, I think what we should do is take it from infant to crawling stage and let it grow fromt therein. Each one of us would have to put in something. But we need clarity of what we intend such folder to be, how should we go about building it, and and, I mean what should the next step be. This is bright idea and i think we should plan for it--I don't know, write a proposal, rewrite it, and then rewrite it untill it's perfect. GUYS, I think we shouldn't let this opportunity passby. Honestly, I prefer the "folder" project to the "mailing list." Mailing lists tend to be info lists rather than forums which can be used as a resources. It is just to serve as a constant reminder of things and what is happening rather than as productive project to stir minds. SO, I would argue that we work lil more with the folder project and see to it become reality. So, sister and mother of bright idea, how realistic you think such project would be? Salaam bro/sis New Deal
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| | Sunday, January 21, 2001 - 07:35 pm Asalaamu alaikum, Common, you are really cute:-) I wonder if you speak Somali with an English accent too? By the way, don't worry about the "nationalist" thing. I was just making sure u(or anyone else) don't get me wrong. And while we are in that mood of clarifying things(smile) let me just say that, the black feminist quote thing was nothing. I was just pulling your leg :-) Anway, I see your point on the debate stuff. I get carried away too. So, I think you are right. We need some sort of balance. As for not going the "rounds" with Galool and Mad, i'm not sure I can restrain myself sometimes (I see galool smiling). I try to not come to the forums when i'm swamped with work, coz I will be tempted to respond when I see something I don't like. As for where to draw the line, I think I agree with New Deal (I tend to agree with this brother a lil too much). As long as people don't resort to insults and profanity, I think I'll put in my two cents. As for having knowledge, I agree with what sh. Hamza said. We definitely need knowledge to be able to answer people's questions. But I was also told that correcting the misconceptions/misrepresentations of Islam is a way of spreading knowledge. So, I don't know. May be we should ask a scholar about this specific situation. New Deal, so you think the folder idea is more appealing than the e-mail eh? I see. The folder has its advantages in that we'll reach a greater audience: anyone who visits will benefit too. It is disadvantaged in that it will be hard to control it. People will steer the discussion in directions we wouldn't want. E-mail has the obvious advantage that it will be limited to the participants, hence no miserable interruptions. In addition to what New Deal already pointed out, it is disavantaged in that it benefits just the participants. I don't know. Perhaps we could do a bit of both? Any other suggestions guys? P.S. Common, I feel bad about that Nationalist thing. So, I'll throw a lil charity your way and hopefully make you laugh :-) The following conversation took place btn me and someone you know, a couple of weeks a go. Otherperson: TLG, are you going to the eid dinner on Sunday? A couple of friends and I might come. TLG: NO, I don't think so, I have a midterm, and a presentation next week and I have to work on my grad school applications. Otherperson: Hmm...so no you on Sunday eh? Ok, that is fine, besides i'm not sure i'll come. Don't worry, we'll hook up some other time. BTW, imagine if you lied to your "brotherfriend". Who knows what goes on on the net. That you don't live in Toronto and don't go to Mac. Meanwhile, here I am. And you are all caught!lol... it will be funny. Ok, i must leave u now. Bye sis. TLG: Girl! u are really funny! That was hellarious. To prove you wrong, i'll come to the dinner for a few minutes. But if I don't, you guys can stop by my aparment after the dinner. Here is my phone number and address. Ask any of the Mac crew about me. They all know me. (An old friend that graduated last year calls TLG from the dinner and says she'll come and say hi. TLG says ok. What do u know, the friend convinces TLG to check out the dinner just for a few min. So TLG (who is easily convinced) agrees. The next morning TLG sends an e-mail to "Other person" with the following message) TLG: Hey girl, FYI, I did go to the dinner, but guess who didn't show up? May be u don't even exist and my brotherfriend made u up. I mean who knows what goes on on the net these days. Hehehe, I guess the joke is on you now. ___End____ You guys definetely now know that i'm a nut case. I better log off before I go too deep :-) salaams.
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| | Monday, January 22, 2001 - 01:17 am A salaam aleikum all I started writing this message out and my big clumsy hands went and pressed something on the keyboard and it went..so i rewriting, you know how that never feels the same, so bear with me if things sound contrived TGL Thanks for the zakat, it did make me smile, although i smile pretty much all the time, my family still blame me for being the culprit for things, when they like "whodunnit?" and i am sitting there with a big smile on ,my face saying "it wasn't me", twenty years of experience of me smiling at almost 24/7 doesn't help them figure out i am no more gulity becasue i am smiling. Other folk sometimes think i am a simpleton !.lol. All praise is due to Allah (swt) ps: i was just reading the TGL page and say all the advice you were getting from folk, and i was thinking "oh no... i was handing out advice in the other page.. she must be like what is up with this overbearing dudes" everyone likes chocolate huh, noone likes it shoved down their throat" Galool Friend, i inshallah will be posting to you, but will just cut out the smugness, i won't be debating as such, just conversating, not any attempt to correct you, cause my knowledge really is lacking, so i will just be like "are you sure about that", instead of harping on a about my how wrong you are. besides, you have already berated me for resorting to telling mad mac to "drop dead" i get too emotional and involved in this things, so i will leave it for more learned folk. New Deal Prime minsters time, lol, let me give you the unofficial guide to it. Basically two crews sit opposite each other, screwing each other down with bad looks, booing and shouting one another when leaders get up to talk, dissing each other- they still haven't figured out that calling someone a "right honourable gentlemen" just before you releash a vicious verbal attack on their self worth dignity, intellegence , popularity and , crediblity, personal habits, personality and even appearnace is not condusive to reasoned debate. I mean this people are incredibly uncouth, public school boys calling each other names, getting paid to do so,while residing over the "fate" of the country.hmmmm they get my vote.. any wonder why electoral colleges are decreasing, and people who died to fall into the "pale of the constition" (i have always loved that phrase" , now can't be bothered to even register to vote, let alone turn up and vote, all over europe it is pretty much the same now. Okay forget that, thanks for the input on my concerns on debating, i thought they were great, but still worried that we need to increase our education levels, but its okay casue i know you worried with me. Also good point about the folder having wider access and, the mailing list issue, but if were controlling the mailing list, then it wouldn't be just info list i thought that the e-mail thing would be like a "halaka" circle type thing in which we would do research and send it out to each other, and answer questions on it etc etc, but am straight with what ever, the folder sounds fine, if we can figure out away of maintaining it, so are we agreed?.. folder it is? then we can move on how to regulate it wasalaam all Brother in Islam
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| | Monday, January 22, 2001 - 04:55 am running to class, just wanted to share somthing i heard from a friend of mine. "words are a part of our tradition, truth is what we missing..so listen closely"
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| | Monday, January 22, 2001 - 06:57 pm Asalaamu alaikum, Common, nice quote. By the way, don't worry about the advice thing. Advice is good. There is a saying (i'm not sure if it is hadeeth or something else) that says something to the effect of " a deenu naseeha, i.e. the religion is advice." The only problem is how you give it. some folks like those on the TLG folder are a bit wacked. But I always welcome people's advises. Ok, so we are waiting for New Deal's input. I'll put in my two cents on how to go about organizing the folder or the e-mail once we all agree on which one. Salaam. By the way, do any of you (Common/ND) Speak Arabic?
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| | Tuesday, January 23, 2001 - 02:08 am lol. common speak arabi? speaking somali would be an achivement. while i was in Morocco i had to mix my limited knowledge of french and arabic and i realised how bad both i spoke both of them. Hada hada je voundrais, sukrin... it was awful.lol. Curiously though it worked(for the purposes of getting what i needed most of the time) i got myself understood.
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| | Tuesday, January 23, 2001 - 10:41 am Common, lol..maybe NewDeal can teach you Somali. BTW, let me give you a pracious advice, don't admit to speaking lil Somali in this place. The outcome is not pleasing to say the least.
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| | Tuesday, January 23, 2001 - 11:53 am Common and TLG, Salaam bro/sis dual. So, I guess I lost this one: both of you prefer the mailing list idea as opposed to the folder project. Yes, I think in terms of controlling what goes on, mailing list is preferable but in terms of who would have the most benefit out of the project, the folder would have been better. So, 2 vs. 1: the two win. Now, how do we go about it? How do we build the mailing list and what do we have in mind? To me it seems this to be circulating list where we choose one topic each week and discuss it, sharing what experience we had in that subject. At least that is what I’m imagining and mentally picturing. I have no experience in mailing lists but I could be used for all purposes. I will be honored to do anything that works for all of us. This is what I have in mind and end this short note by asking, “what is the next step?” That is my two cents now, and would end by the one more suggestion. And that is to say the language of discussion would be .....lol! TLG, I would be willing to teach him if he is gonna buy me? And for the record, I heard there is such thing as "Long Distance" education, so common don't pass this opportunity!
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| | Tuesday, January 23, 2001 - 12:02 pm correction, pay me and not "buy" me. Well, technically, pay me would mean buy me aka buy my time. Whatever!!
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| | Tuesday, January 23, 2001 - 06:18 pm Asalaamu alaikum brothers... Ok, So ND feels he lost it. How about we do a bit of both. By that I mean, do all the necessary rough drafts, questions, clarifications etc on email, then we post the final draft on a folder here. That way, we kill two birds with the same stone. So, the folder will be for the purpose of benefiting those who visit this site. It will not be an interractive thing per se. If someone has a question on the material we post, then we consult each other or others with more knowledge and give a response to the person. For the kind of questions that say, "But why did Allah say this and not this" we just ignore them. The only thing we answer will be genuine questions. what do you guys think? Perhaps I took you guys back to an issue that was resolved? Anyway, whatever you guys decide is fine with me. For organizing it, the one topic per week thing sounds good. Now the question is where do we start? Are we to randomly pick a topic and do research on it? Or should we start from the basics? Perhaps we should pick a bunch of topics from the get go so that we know in advance what to research for as far as the next few weeks. I guess i'm providing more questions than answers. Anyway, lets be clear on the medium first-folder, e-mail or both? For yours truly, it is no problem. Any can do. Salaam.
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| | Tuesday, January 23, 2001 - 06:46 pm One more thing: Common, consider yourself lucky. You just found yourself a teacher. The brother is a lil not-too-brotherly though. He wants to be payed for helping out another Brother. May be the "pay me" syndrome has something to do with living in America (and please don't say NY). The Jews rubbed off on him...lol. Now i'm going to be accused of anti-semitism (Since our uncle is "watching this discussion from the sidelines" )lol. I'm looking for an Arabic teacher myself. A non-charging one though. Common already said he doesn't speak Arabic. How about you ND? Do you speak Arabic or are u stuck on the haadha bait part like Common is? Ok I wanna share with you guys something funny I was listening to the radio this morning and was supprised at how BRIGHT Americans are! A wrecking crew(some where in Arkansas) was sent to demolish a house that didn't meet the city codes . Apparently, when the city-hired crew noticed no signs on the property, they called their superiors who asked "if there were trees covering it up." The crew said "yes". Then the superiors said, "then you are at the right place". It wasn't until the home was flattened that the officials realized the house to be demolished was across the street. OOps... they nocked down the wrong one. No wonder they love to hire CANADIAN doctors.lol New Deal brother, no offense is intended re: the joke above Common, don't be thinking the N word now...lol. I see you saying "Gosh she never forgets things. I guess this 'nationalist' thing will hang over my neck for a lil longer than I thought"
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| | Wednesday, January 24, 2001 - 07:50 pm Hey, where are u guys? Are u avoiding this place? Was it the joke about Americans or was it the N word. Ok, I promise no more jokes and teasing. Please come back. Or was it my suggestion? Was it that...oooh God, they don't like my suggestion. I think i'm gonna cry. sniff sniff sniff <crying myself to bed>
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| | Thursday, January 25, 2001 - 02:28 am Salaam okay folk lets get busy new deal, think over your two beats one idea, reminds me of aristole who argued that " and as a feast to which all the guests contribute is better than a banquet furnished by a single man, so a multitude is a better judge of many things than any one individual...the many are more incorruptable than the few ,they are like the great quantity of water which is less easily corrupted than a little"- Can you not find in the river what lay not in the ocean?. If your idea is better , then gentle persuasion is required, not consignment, honest brother, we hold you not in contempt convince us Besides I think TGL hit the nail on the head,we can do both, this was before she played the little lost crying girl card, which always works well... it got me writing didn't it! Okay guys we need to move on... with regards to my new teacher with elements of capitalist world domination in his sight, sheeh kebaab, what can i say?... do you take visa?.lol.okay for real what will be the first subject guys iman, ishan, how about purfication of the soul, which would involve all of this things. Focusing on our behaviour internal, which would precipitate an outward change of our condition also, how to do things for the sake of Allah, and how to resist our open enemy more successfully?, is that okay folk?, that can all come under one bracket of purification of the soul, can't it? let me know if there are either things you wish to add to this topic, or another topic which would be better to start with. Also does my suggestion mean that i would be responsible for the research?, is that how this works, i person does research on a topic and shares it with the others via e-mail for discussion and if need be additions and modifications before it is posted on a folder, or all three of us do research and come to discuss it together before posting?. Also what kind of parimenters would there be, how long would each topic be, we would have to discuss prioritizing, seeing as these topics would be massive and require both depth and accessability to the lay reader. ja zaku allahu kahir Your brother in Islam
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| | Thursday, January 25, 2001 - 11:08 am Assalaamu caleykum Villagers; I can tell you something, on top of what you currently want to undertake, that will make you happy: Twenty dollars/ten bounds(in english) a month will enable a child IN SOMALIA to go to school in all major cities and towns (or what is left of them). I am sponsoring three kids this year In Mogadishu where they will attend this school year inshallah. I already talked to my Mother who said will make sure those kids go to school. It is twenty dollar a month for nine months which you can pay monthly. I think educating the younger generations will save somalia. There are many private schools in all cities From HARGEYSA, BOSASO, GALKACYO, BALADWEYN, TO MOGADISHO where Kids can learn a lot and become productive elements in society. Please do contact your relatives and ask them who can go to school from their family. Education is expensive and only few bussiness people can afford to pay for their Kids in somalia. They will learn Arabic, computers, math, Quran recitation Depending on the school. I think that is one important campaing that will help change A DISTRESSED SOCIETY.
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| | Thursday, January 25, 2001 - 11:22 am Salaam, I thought we decided to go with the mailing list first, and then see how that works out. I think we should experiment with that and do assessment based on the results. I don't know if we can do both simulatenously. Besides, i think it will be wise to stand up before we can walk. Lets try ways to make the mailing list work. TLg, Very funny!! stay away those jokes about America, will you?! Besides, you Canadians ..... FG, Great to see you back, and fine point. Thx bro.
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| | Thursday, January 25, 2001 - 07:48 pm Asalaamu alaikum Ok, mailing list it is. Common, bro, I suppose you have the list. Send out the intro message please. ND, no more jokes about the United Snakes. FG, Suppose someone wanted to help out with the project you mentioned above but they don't know anyone in Somalia, is there an organization or individuals they can go through? Salaam for now.
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| | Thursday, January 25, 2001 - 10:38 pm I saw once an organization, somali one, but unfortunately can't recall where. May be other brothers and sisters know it and will bring the address. In case I find out I will bring it over here. If we can't find one, I have this suggestion for that person who wants to help but has no relatives back home. He should talk to a friend whom he trusts and can use that friend as an intermediary. Meaning, the intermediary will make the connection and based on good will anf trust the person will sponsor a child. Do I make sense?. It is not neccessary we have to have someone back home. We can use other somalis as well if they know someone who is in need. And there are thousands who are in need.
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| | Thursday, January 25, 2001 - 10:40 pm TO....T....L....G I saw once an organization, somali one, but unfortunately can't recall where. May be other brothers and sisters know it and will bring the address. In case I find out I will bring it over here. If we can't find one, I have this suggestion for that person who wants to help but has no relatives back home. He should talk to a friend whom he trusts and can use that friend as an intermediary. Meaning, the intermediary will make the connection and based on good will anf trust the person will sponsor a child. Do I make sense?. It is not neccessary we have to have someone back home. We can use other somalis as well if they know someone who is in need. And there are thousands who are in need.
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| | Friday, January 26, 2001 - 12:04 pm FG, thanks bro. And yes, you made a whole lot of sense.
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| | Saturday, January 27, 2001 - 02:22 am Salaam aleykum Formerguest New Deal and TGL Did you guys get my message? please say you did, it was long and there was as a scary bit when i did some thing that upset hotmail, so i am not sure if i got through, By the grace of Allah (swt)i hope it did, otherwise i will have to retype it all casue i didn't save it, remember guys in your responses to save your writings especially if they are long! I love you all for the sake of Allah. "All of us are in gutter, its just some of us are looking at the stars" Oscar Wilde. keep your eyes on the stars Ja Zaku Alluhu Kaahr Your brother in Islam
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| | Saturday, January 27, 2001 - 05:25 am COMMON FG TLG NEW DEAL IDEA JB Maa shaaAllah Tabaarakallah, I am very impressed with you brothers and sisters, group for the following reasons: 1. You are virtual, thus , Ikhlaas, inshaallah 2. You are " Ummattan wasatan" " middle course" in most of their views in discussions that I have so far read. 3. You care. May Allahu Subhaanahu wa Tacaalaa make your feet firm on a solid ground of Iman, Taqwa and Ikhlaas. May Allah, accept your efforts, and count it in miizaan yowmil qiyaama May Allah, protect you from Hell fire. Aamiin
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| | Saturday, January 27, 2001 - 05:39 am Nur Ja Zakur Allahu Kaar, Brother thanks for the prayers, May Allah reward you with nur shining from your breast and your hands on the day of judgement.Ameen If you have time please pay close attention and help us in these efforts,and post your thoughts and concerns your imput is most needed , if you would prefer drop me a e-mail on yassin_9@hotmail.com, you don't have to write much one line will do, and i will add you to the mailing list, so that you may moniter and contribute to the discussion, dua'h ,learning, and efforts of zakaat more closely Your brother in Islam
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| | Saturday, January 27, 2001 - 05:45 am the address concealed is yassin_9 at hotmail.com
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| | Sunday, January 28, 2001 - 12:59 pm I see this as very productive and illuminating folder. I read all of it and I should say my salam and thanx to the brothers and sisters who put their creative and BALANCED ideas for my like who are more on the comsumsion side rather than production. Nothing is more rewarding than something done for the sake of Allah. Please keep up the good work. I'm happy if you include in your email list. I'm sure I will benefit from it and I will try to contribute something to it email: nour95@hotmail.com Jazakumu Allahu Khayran
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| | Sunday, January 28, 2001 - 12:59 pm I see this as very productive and illuminating folder. I read all of it and I should say my salam and thanx to the brothers and sisters who put their creative and BALANCED ideas for my like who are more on the comsumsion side rather than production. Nothing is more rewarding than something done for the sake of Allah. Please keep up the good work. I'm happy if you include in your email list. I'm sure I will benefit from it and I will try to contribute something to it email: nour95@hotmail.com Jazakumu Allahu Khayran
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| | Monday, January 29, 2001 - 08:37 am Salaams all, What was the first word from the angle Jabril?? Read!!. So those who preach as education or learning as the first solution to the ills of our society must be applauded and their initiative appreciated. A well fed society without education is nothing other than a herd of wild animals frolicking in the plains. U don't need to look further than the very society u live under. They are only educated in the means and ways to obtain and earn a living in this dog-eat dog world which is known as the material world. Just listen to the adds they produce, slogans like" eating the competition for breakfast, wipe out the competition, blow them apart, blow them beyond recognition". If u want to blow that into a bigger proportion u change the playing fields from winning bread at home and going overseas for the juggernaut, or should we say the jugpot. Iraq is a good example. They bombed Baghdad back to the stone ages with the help of the lunatic in power without forgetting the hand the men in the wedding gowns played. All this is done so the desires of those frolicking in the oval office is appeased and taken care of. Went to Cambridge and oxford came back to become attorney general in his state became a governor aspired for the presidency, achieved it and frolicked for 8 years, making decisions as one of his subjects did her royal duty under the table of the oval office. One of the decisions included bombing a Medical facility in Sudan. What was the reaction of those in the wedding gowns?? Nothing, complete silence. Only the lunatic in Baghdad shook his fist on a CNN camera crew. A long way from the Babylonian times. That's the goal of those who aspire to be educated in the material world. what's missing is educating the masses not only on how to obtain a degree to make a living but educating them on the ultimate aim of why we are HERE!!, a goal if disregarded will produce the likes I mention above. By turning a blind eye on our faith and pursuing the mirages of this material world our doom is heading to a collusion of dire striates. By deviating from our deen we have become slaves to this material world and guess who is navigating this ship, our foes or who are fulfilling the wishes of iblis. One of the narration of the Sahaba which really puts onto perspective all this jibe of this material world, is a conversation that was exchanged between our Prophet(SAW) and Omar bin Khatab(RA). Omar came back from one of his trips to Damascus which was the world trade centre of that time. On arriving, he went to the Mosque as was the ritual of all the Sahaba. He met the Prophet(SAW) and as he was greeting him he noticed the marks of the mat He(SAW) was resting on, on His(SAW) cheek. Omar(RA) couldn't help but ask how is the Prophet(SAW) of Allah(SWA) living under such circumstances when the Romans who ruled Damascus were resting on luxury goods made of gold. Well the answer Omar(RA) received should be a testimony to every member of this Ummah, cause if understood, heeded and practiced , will result in understanding of our meager presence in this universe. What is our purpose, why are we here, are we here to live a life of luxury, seeking the pleasures of this temporary but short dwelling. Anyway the Prophet(SAW) said: Ours(luxury) is in the here after, our aim in this life is to aspire for the acceptance of Our Creator Allah(SWA) for the here after. In due time Damascus and the centre of Europe and all the way to Indho-China was taken and ruled by those very SAHABA who rejected the luxury of this world and went on the path of saving humanity from the darkness of kafaarin and the material world. Only when the Muslims deviated from the right path were they defeated, only when they seeked and aspired for this material world has victory evaded them, resulting in producing the men in the wedding gowns we have today. The glory era of the Muslims was decorated with victory beyond imagination 'cause they overcame powers which were far more lethal and powerful than the so called nuclear age we live under. In today's super powers all they have is the NUKE, which by the way is been developed by nations far poorer than those who claim to have the patent of the formula to produce the weapon.. Pakistan is one of them. All in all we reached this far by the pen and revisiting it will only bring us back to the glory days. Lets drop the mentality of been "lower than those with the material degrees" I called it material degree cause it's aim is only to accumulate wealth live a life of luxury. If the same degree is used to better and promote the blight of our ummah it becomes as useful as those who went before us who made their goal to liberate the masses from the darkness that engulfed them. It's said the pen is mightier than the sword if used wisely. Lets exchange and correspond we might be on the threshold of something useful. Common, may Allah(SWT) reward u with the effort ur under taking, my email is babilontimes@hotmail.com} Till then fii amaani Laah.
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| | Friday, February 16, 2001 - 11:19 am Just wanna place this page at the top. If you are wondering why, i'm disapointed to see the site becoming a battle ground for Muslims.
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