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     | Sunday, January 07, 2001 - 09:02 pm Asalaamu alaikum Following on from our discusion in "Network" where this issue was brought up, I thought this topic needed its own space, hence the creation of this folder. First, I'll address hijab since this is the area i'm most familiar with. From experience, I can say being a muhajaba in this society is not an easy task. From the house (when your family is not Islamically inclined) to the class rooms, to places of work, to the streets, muslim girls face a lot of problems ranging from redicule to physical abuse (in Toronto, there were incidents where hijabs were ripped of girls' heads). Some of us look at these obstacles and say, "hey I don't think i can withstand all this", but what we don't realize is that when we make that decision, we are going against suras 24:31, 33:59 in the Quran. Others will say, well I do beleive in the Quran and I wanna follow Allah's commandments but I don't think i'm ready to wear hijab. I mean, how i'm I going to find a job, what if they descriminate against me in job interviews or professional school interviews (yours truly here was a perfect example). For those of us who think this way, what we don't realize is that in accordance with the prophetic saying, if the whole world were to gather together and benefit us with something, they won't benefit us with anything more or better than what Allah already decreed for us and the opposite is true. In essence, we need to have faith. For when you give up something for the sake of pleasing Allah, Allah rewards you with better things. Windows of opportunities appear from places you never expected. So now, we are a lil convinced that we need to wear hijab. NO ifs, since or buts about it. Now that we are wearing hijab, what are the consequence? Quite frankly, the consequences are both good and bad. First and foremost, you will be pleasing your Lord, which is the most important thing. Some people will be coming upto you saying they have never seen someone who looks better in their whole life. I remember when I first wore hijab, it was towards the end of the first semester (a year and half ago), when I came back in semester two wearing it, this girl came upto to me and said, "hey can I ask you something and I hope you won't get offended." I said, go ahead, and no I won't be offended. She said, "you never used to wear this last semester, right? why do you wear it now?" I said yes, I didn't wear it then. Then I explained to her briefly. She said, "it looks really good on you. You know i'm Jewish and we have to dress modestly too. That is why I wear long sleeved tops". Others will be running as fast as their legs can carry them when they see you, like they've seen a ghost. Some people will deny you jobs, placements etc. Somehow, some of us feel we become less attractive when we wear hijab. I remeber the first day I wore hijab to school, I wore all this makeup that I have never worn before, and I wasn't even a big fan of make up before. But somehow, shaitan tricks you into thinking there is something missing. Wearing hijab doesn't mean you have to dress like a grandma. NO. Dress nicely as long as you meet the requirements of hijab. Wear something that matches your outfit. For those of us that are image conscience, we can wear nice hijabs, and today there are even designer hijabs such as Calvin Klein and Christian Dior (even though i'm not down with this for reasons that require another folder). You will even be supprised how confortable you become as time goes, to the point you will want to wear even jilbaabs and a'baayahs. Now, how do we deal with family members and society at large? I think the first thing we should do is acquire knowledge. By now you know why you are wearing hijab and where it says in the Quran. One time this one sister said to me, "you know i'm wearing hijab and I don't even know where it says in the Quran." When such a person is confronted with unpleasant situations, the result is frustration and an urge to remove hijab. I can't stress how important knowledge in this area and many others is. Personally, it wasn't a big problem, coz i had modest knowldge by the time I wore due to the fact that my room mate and her sister (who both finally reverted to Islam, alhamdulilah) were looking at Islam at that time and I learned a lot by helping them and from them. Maasha Allah, you should see them now. They are both better muslimahs than I am. Infact, I encourage all sisters to learn as much as they can about the position of women in Islam. Know what your creator says about you. Also, once you know what Islam says, you should also read what others (such as the Orientalists and those who have dedicated their lives to taking muslim women out of Islam) say about you. That way, you will know what they think, how they think and where their arguments are flawed. Sometimes, our own family members can be worse than the kaafirs on the the streets. They will entice us or even at times force us to do things that go against Islam. One of the problems I have at home is with my male cousins and close family friends. Clearly, our cousins are non-mahram as far as the Islamic sharia goes. So when they come over and see you in hijab, they'll be like, "come on, it is just me." Then they would want to hug you or even kiss you on the cheek. It is a big mess. And the thing that makes it worse is the fact that everyone else but your thinks it is ok. This is when i say, sadaqa rasululah (the prophet has spoken the truth) salalaahu alaihi wasalaam, when he said "Islam began as strange and will return to being strange, so give glad tidings to the strangers". So, again going back to the knowledge thing, show your parents and your family members what Islam says about these things and stand your ground. AS long as you are firm on your stance, they will eventually come to respect your wish. AS for the people in your classes, workplace or the streets. Just be pleasant with them. Some are genuinely curious and just want to know a thing or two. Be nice and polite in answering their questions. Others are hostile and abusive, ignore them. I really liked some of the points raised by Common as to why the brothers need to dress Islamically in this society, which is to give support to the sisters. I think all the brothers should wear thobes (dashadahah/khamis), shorten their pants, grow their beard...etc. May be you brothers can add more. I think I need to stop now. The post is getting too long and it is after 2 am here. I can go on and on and on ....on this topic, but i guess i should leave room for others to add a few things.
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| | Monday, January 08, 2001 - 10:37 am TLG, mansha allah TLG, may allah reward you for this.i will come back to comment.
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| | Monday, January 08, 2001 - 11:54 am masha allah TLG. You're so right about all the issues especially the one about the cousins not knowing they are not your mahrams.......Oh and in addition to the dress code of the brothers they need to lower their gazes, I've seen some brothers with the whole islamic thing going on but they stare at sister like they've never seen girls before......
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| | Monday, January 08, 2001 - 01:35 pm TLG, High-five Sister, and as always right. I only hope my other sisters would see the matter thru the same lenses you did. Once you drink from that pure spring of knowledge and see the nobility and dignity that Islam draws for members of its society, all other factors pointing to any other conclusion becomes insignificant—Alas, valueless. Does it not surprise you that despite all obstacles and calls to not cover you went ahead because you clearly understood, at first hand, that not doing so will be a deviant act against your lord? That is to say you take the hijab as a result of direct order from Allah. But more importantly you covered because you understand that Allah ordains a specific order because of its benefit to humanity. That direct correlation between what Allah ordains and its benefit to humanity may be or may not be obvious to us. In this case the practical benefits of the hijab is obvious to the sincere individuals of the human family. How so? Well, lets pin point few of the fine points of Covering. 1. The hijab becomes a symbol thru which the Muslima is acknowledged as such, a Muslima. The common man as well as the not well-behaved man both respect the covered girl because of her clothes. No man disrespects a woman with hijab, and offers a respect of some sort to such woman. 2. As I would attest to, in elucidation of the above point, I don’t regard a sister with hijab and the one without same: The one with the hijab has special place in my heart and especial kind of respect, born out of not my own prejudice but Godly affection, if we subscribe to the same Islamic faith, or else a godly respect for the way she dressed. You at least give them the benefit of doubt and consider them modest. 3. A girl without hijab always attracts the eyes of her male counterparts, in agreement with animalistic human nature that is created within us. Now my friends on the other side of the aisle would argue that if “attraction” is part of human nature, and it is only natural for a man to want to see a woman, then what is the need for the cover? I guess in disagreement I would say some parts of human nature needs control, or otherwise things will get out of hand. But more importantly we need to possess those characters that distinguish us from animals, thus to subdue an animalistic character is a human value and upward position. That said, I believe we Muslims have issues to deal with here. And I really like to share with you guys some of the concerns I have. First and foremost, we must stop our insistence of one-standard for all hijabs, the Somali style. Hijab ought to be the concept of covering, while the type of clothing meets the requirements set by our scholars. If a girl is dressed modestly, say goes for Khimar and long skirt that covers her body, or skirt and long sleeved shirt, are we to say she is not covered? It has been my experience that some of my fellow Islamists, and of course from my close circle, argue that such is not a hijab. Of course, we argue about it and discuss it. To me, one-fit-for-all argument does not hold water. As long as a girl dresses modestly and does not violate the basic rules of the hijab set by our lovely scholars, then I think she is dressed. Another quick point I wanted to make is that some of my fellow sisters argue they feel a lot of pressure put on them to hijab even if they don’t feel it is right for them. Although I never understood how someone would think an order mentioned in the Quran is not right for them, yet I think we should give them their own space. We should let them decide whether to cover or not on their own. The duty of those of us who want Islam is just to deliver the message, explain why we think it is right and why the person concerned should apply it, but let the person decide. We should let them go hijab on their own, and if they decide not to, we should respect them for their decision though we know they are sinning. One of the best emails I have received recently was from a Bosnian sister we went to the same college (our MSA was so lovely that we keep in touch even after we entered the ever so dreadful Real World). Anyways, in that email she related to me, with much excitement and joy, how some members of her family got covered—although I couldn’t see her thru the computer screen, yet I can feel with her the excitement. BUT, she told me how she was not ready YET to go for the Hijab although she is seriously thinking about it. Why am I sharing with you this story? Well, because I believe that many times we go beyond the simple task of delivering the message and the necessity of the hijab to the task of DEMANDING that the girl covers. If a girls asks me about hijab, I would tell her it is a must and that without it she is sinning—that is my job—but I can ‘t force her or demand that she covers. Basically I’m saying we should give our fellow sisters a space of their own. Finally, we should neglect no girl because she is not wearing hijab. The one without hijab is still my sister. The one wearing pants is still my sister, though sinning and not deserving the same respect. HOWEVER, I’ll converse the one without hijab the same way as I’d with the one with hijab. We must deal the one without hijab the same way as we deal the one with the hijab. Experience shows otherwise: those with hijab only deal with the muhajibin; those without hijab deal only those without hijab. This pattern has got to change, and the ways of communication have got to change. How should guys dress, and is Khamis/dahdasha an Islamic dress? I have few cents to add to that discussion but guess I have already bored you with a lengthy and nonsense message. Please for give me. New Deal.
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| | Monday, January 08, 2001 - 11:43 pm TLG I don't understand why all brothers should "wear Thobes, shorten their pants or grow their beards??? Where is this written in the Qur'an?? Some guys have no facial hair while others have brutally full beards. What's the point in this concept? The taliban seemed to have embraced it for reasons I don't get (other than they're nut cases). I do think that generally speaking, if you are of a minority faith which proclaims that others are of lessar value (which Islam does) and you wear the outward trappings of that faith, that you seperate yourself from the society in which you live, you leave yourself vulnerable to alienation in that society. This is what got the Jews in trouble in Europe. I'm not saying I agree with that sentiment, just acknowledging its reality.
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| | Tuesday, January 09, 2001 - 03:46 am Maa-sha-allah sister TLG, why can't all sisters Be JUST LIKE YOU. <smile> I have nothing to add to what all of you had said. Just a thought that i would love if you shared with me. The word Hijab comes from the arabic word "hajaba" meaning to hide from view or conceal. Historically, In the Jewish tradition,the veiling symbolized a state of distinction and luxury rather than modesty. The veil personified the dignity and superiority of nobel women. The veil signified a woman's self respect and social status. Women of lower classes would often wear the veil to give the impression of a higher standing. In Christainity, veiling represents a sign of authority of the man who is the image and glory of God over the woman who was created from and for man. The Quran clearly demonstrates that the veil is essentially for modesty which is intended solely for the protection of the muslim woman. The Islamic veil, unlike the veil of the Christain tradition is not a sign of man's authority over woman nor is it a sign of woman's subjection to man. The islamic veil, unlike the veil in the Jewish tradition is not a sign of luxury and distinction of some noble women. The islamic veil is only a sign of MODESTY with the purpose of protecting women. The Islamic philosophy is that it is always better to be safe than sorry. In fact, the Quran is so concerned with protecting women's bodies and women's reputation that a man who DARES TO FALSELY ACCUSE A WOMAN OF UNCHASTITY WILL BE SEVERLY PUNISHED. Requirements of what parts of the Body to be covered: Ayesha (R) reported that Asma the daughter of Abu Bakr (R) came to the messenger of Allah (S) while wearing thin clothing. He approached her and said "o Asma, when a girl reaches the menstrual age, it is not proper that anything should remain exposed except this and this, He pointed to the face and hands". Secondly, cloth must be loose enough as not as to describe the shape of the woman's body. Thirdly, thickness is a must so as not to show the color of the skin it covers. Finally, clothing shouldn't attract men's attention to the woman, it shouldn't be shiny and flashy so that everyone notices the dress and the woman. Lastly but not least, wearing Hijab is FARD (obligatory). Any woman not wearing it in public is considered by criteria of Islam to be NAKED. Hijab is a passport and a clear sign of a muslim woman. "O prophet tell your wives and daughters and the believing women to draw their outer garments around them (when they go out or are among men). That is better in order that they may be knwon (to be muslims) and not annoyed. Jazzaakuma Allah kul kheer brothers n sisters.
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| | Tuesday, January 09, 2001 - 04:28 am Idea A couple of quick questions. First, can you address my questions above? You seem to know plenty about the background of clothing and dress requirements. Second. I assume that a Muslim woman can not marry a non-Muslim man (even though a Muslim man is allowed to marry a Christian or Jewish woman) because of off-spring concerns. Is this correct? If it is not correct, what is the reason?
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| | Tuesday, January 09, 2001 - 04:52 am Asalaamu alaikum I'm "btn classes" right now but would like to voice a few concerns. First,MM, i will slap you with a response sometime later, insha allah. However, I would appreciate if you and your cohorts will be kind enough to not turn this page into what it wasn't intended for. There are many other venues where you can persue your endeavors, please do so. If you have genuine questions that is fine, but please don't start debates on matters you have already made your minds up on. Thanks, TLG
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| | Tuesday, January 09, 2001 - 04:55 am Oh MM, I forgot to add. If you really wanna know answers to your questions, visit this site and do a search. http://www.islam-qa.com
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| | Tuesday, January 09, 2001 - 05:11 am Oh baby, she's gonna slap me. Sorry, I coulnd't help that. I will wait with baited breath (which is quicker and easier than looking it up). These are genuine questions, not looking to debate per se.
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| | Tuesday, January 09, 2001 - 11:31 am Salaams, I have to say I have not read all the of the postings, but i read the one of New deal and idea ( TGL's half of it) anyways, I think i need to say few things : I do think the dress is only part of the Hijab, and I do think it is a state of mind. i also think the colour and the style matters. Islam has not prescribed any particular dress. I read this verse' O children of Adam, We have revealed to you (the knowlegde of minkind) garments to cover your nakedness and as a thing of beauty: but the garment of Godconsciousness is the best of all'' The Quran 7:26 I also think everyone deserve respect and we should regardless their religion, dress etc as long as they are not openly critising us bucause of our religion. MadMac, I am sure there are some who will give you a better answer but I think your question answers itself. A muslim woman cannot marry other than a muslim because of the offsbring concern what else importan than the continuation of Islam. A muslim woman is a beleaver that would want her children to be beleavers too.
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| | Tuesday, January 09, 2001 - 07:33 pm TLG: your wishes are our commands sis. No room for infidels here. Arawel: Jazaak Allahu sister
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| | Tuesday, January 09, 2001 - 07:49 pm <I don't understand why all brothers should "wear Thobes, shorten their pants or grow their beards??? Where is this written in the Qur'an?? Some guys have no facial hair while others have brutally full beards. What's the point in this concept? The taliban seemed to have embraced it for reasons I don't get (other than they're nut cases).> MM, as muslims, we don't follow the Quran only. We are Ahlu sunnah (people of the sunnah). We follow BOTH the Quran and the example of the prophet peace be upon him. Proof of the importance of the Sunnah The Qur’aan speaks of the importance of the Sunnah, for example: (a) Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “He who obeys the Messenger has indeed obeyed Allaah. . .” [al-Nisaa’ 4:80] Allaah described obedience to the Prophet (peace be upon him) as being a part of obedience to Him. Then He made a connection between obedience to Him and obedience to the Prophet (peace be upon him): “O you who believe! Obey Allaah and obey the Messenger . . .” [al-Nisaa’4:59] (b) Allaah warns us not to go against the Prophet(peace be upon him), and states that whoever disobeys him will be doomed to eternal Hell. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “. . . And let those who oppose the Messenger’s commandment beware, lest some fitnah (trial, affliction, etc.) befall them or a painful torment be inflicted on them.”[al-Nur 24:63] (c) Allaah has made obedience to His Prophet religious duty; resisting or opposing it is a sign of hypocrisy: “”But no, by your Lord, they can have no Faith, until they make you [Muhammad] judge in all disputes between them, and find in themselves no resistance against your decisions, and accept (them)with full submission.” [al-Nisaa’ 4:65] (d) Allaah commands His slaves to respond to Him and His Messenger: “O you who believe! Answer Allaah (by obeying Him) and (His) Messenger when he calls you to that which will give you life . . .”[al-Anfaal 8:24] (e) Allaah also commands His slaves to refer all disputes to him: “. . . (And) if you differ in anything amongst yourselves, refer it to Allaah and His Messenger . . .” [al-Nisaa’ 4:59] The fact that the Prophet (peace be upon him) is the Messenger of Allaah indicates that we must believe everything he said and obey every command he gave. It goes without saying that he has told us things and given instructions in addition to what is in the Qur’aan. It is futile to make a distinction between the Sunnah and the Qur’aan when it comes to adhering to it and responding to it. It is obligatory to believe in what he has told us, and to obey his instructions. source: http://www.islam-qa.com Dressing in thobe, shortening the pants and growing the beard are acts done by our prophet peace be upon him. Some (like the beard) he stressed some he didn't. The above acts are also indications that an individual is a muslim. Besides, as it was said before, it is a support system for the sisters that wear hijab. Attention will go from them to the guys now. <I do think that generally speaking, if you are of a minority faith which proclaims that others are of lessar value (which Islam does) and you wear the outward trappings of that faith, that you seperate yourself from the society in which you live, you leave yourself vulnerable to alienation in that society. This is what got the Jews in trouble in Europe. I'm not saying I agree with that sentiment, just acknowledging its reality.> I'm not sure about Islam PROCLAIMING that others are of lesser value. I would love to see some evidence please. So you are saying that instead of individuals wearing the "outward trappings" of their faith and risk being alienated from the society, they should assimilate and blend in. Whatever happened to individuality? Should we all be like everyone else around us? Infact if this logic is correct, why didn't you stay a Catholic. I mean didn't you risk being isolated and alienated from your community by becoming a macist? Interesting how you guys show your "superp intelligence" through being different from everyone else around you who beleived in things that "didn't make sense" but when that "being different" characteristic is displayed by others, it is a bad thing. P.S if you wanna continue debating(eventhough I don't have the time) on this, move it to another folder and let me know. Lets leave this space for what it was intended for. Sorry folks. It seems i'm in line for the Nobel prize for writing long messages :-)
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| | Tuesday, January 09, 2001 - 08:00 pm New Deal, did i mention that you are one cool brother? I would love to hear your input on the brother's dress issue. Sister, thanks. Give us your input pls. Idea, thanks for the historical perspective of the hijab. Arawello, thanks sis for your input, i would like to hear more. Sweetgirl, thanks sis. You are so right on lowering the gaze thing. I had brothers tell me that they are allowed the first look, so they extend it...lol...the jokers you know. MM, thanks for your miserable interruption. Just kidding. As long as you don't turn the topic to something else, your comments are welcome.
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| | Tuesday, January 09, 2001 - 09:46 pm OK, I'm moving to a new page addressed to you.
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| | Wednesday, January 10, 2001 - 07:31 pm Salaam to all, Thanks for the compliment TLG. Before I comment on how brothers should dress, let me say that I do wear Khamis now and then, and have half a dozen Khamisess—I go for the colored ones more than the white Thobe. But I love Jeans and wear them most of the time, more than I wear other clothes. I don’t wear them to please any specific group but just like them, and I guess just look good on them (just kidding!). I use suits once in blue moon. I remember couple of times when I wore Khamis to school that many eyes were looking at me, especially those at the library, as if I was the hottest art in the museum. Some of my non-Muslim friends would comment on it: some would say I like your dress, others would ask what is it. But I found it interesting that when a brother wears Khamis (Thobe) to universities, it seems to attract the attention of fellow students more than it does when a sister wears hijab. I don’t know whether this is due to the fact that many sisters wear hijab, and thus more students exposed to that type of clothing, or whether it is due to other factors. I have heard the argument that brothers should wear the thobe and other Islamiclly associated clothes because such act provides support for those sisters who opt for the hijab. Honestly, I don’t know how much truth there is to that statement for the following reasons. First, and as I mentioned in the above example of my Uni, brothers wearing Thobe seem to draw an attention of their own that is independent of how the non-Muslims feel about the dress code of fellow sisters. Secondly, many of the non-Muslims identify the clothes with local cultures more than they do with Islam, whereas women’s clothes are closely associated with Islam. Again, I don’t know how much truth there is to these statements and such could be wrong big time. That said, it is possible that the “it-provides-support” argument holds water and would lend my ear to what you guys say. New Deal.
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| | Thursday, January 11, 2001 - 02:00 pm Asalama caleykum wa raxmatullahi wa barakatu! To TLG: What an interesting discussion indeed!Girl,I must commend you.Such blatent honesty and such unabashed revelations...I'm truly in awe! I have nothing but great respect for you and of course all the others.I meant to come sooner and share my views...of course there's never enough time to say all the things that I want to say. To New Deal: Maasha Allah my brother,if only there were more of your type...you leave me breathless!..in a good way..don't get any ideas now..lol!So can I say now that from your experience of wearing the Khamiis to your University...you've at least had the chance to come across some of the things that we muslim sisters must put up with day in and day out??..just thought I'd ask. To MADMAC: Her Ladyship can always count on you to start a debate,divert everyone's attention from the one at hand,invest all your energies into endless arguments...the list goes on.Your services are truly remarkable. To Idea: You're just remarkable.I'm running out of time though.Forgive me for being so short. Please do not comment on the previously called Kufaar name I have chosen..it is just a nick! I shall be back to comment later. Until next time,peace,love and craziness to you all! Lady Jane.
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| | Thursday, January 11, 2001 - 03:16 pm Really, I appreciate your writings which are very importan to everyone who wants to increase his/her knowledge about Islam. And I also wonder your knowing how to block or protect your sharings from human virsus. May Allah give you rewards from your good deeds!
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| | Thursday, January 11, 2001 - 04:58 pm New Deal is so cool TLG ain't he adorable? I think you should wear white khameeses more often with a the red-white checkered 'imamas they're the coolest clothes I've seen a muslim guy ever wear.......
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| | Thursday, January 11, 2001 - 08:31 pm Salaam ya'll. New Deal thanks brother for your always balanced views. Are you guys forgetting about our lil endeavors in "Network"? Just wondering :-) Lady J! Thanks sisterfriend. Welcome to this side of the Forum. I'm really happy to see your ladyship here. Wanted to direct the other villagers this way but was a lil concerned it will be too dry for their taste...lol. Sweetgirl, yes New Deal is cool. I'm a lil worried in branding him adorable though...He is new and don't know if he can handle the "harrasment" yet.
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| | Friday, January 12, 2001 - 06:50 am Salaams to all, Perhaps, and before I throw few thank yous here and there, I should ask you all a question I had: do you really think that brothers wearing Thobe provide a "network of support" for sisters who opt to Cover? I ask that because, as I mentioned earlier, I think non-Muslims look at how sisters dress and how brothers dress differently. I could be wrong, but they seem to associate the "sister-dress" with women's issues whereas they look at how brothers dress just from the view point of culture. In other words, they would look at a brother wearing Khamis as they would look at someone wearing African dress. I would appreciate your input of this view. Now let me throw few thank yous here and there. First, TLG The compliments are rightly yours for great job. You are indeed the adorable one. As for the netwrok fold, we were waiting your "ideas," which I guess you registered them. I read them this morning with interest and enjoyed them. Feedback is on the way very soon. Lady Jane, The comments of Her Ladyship has been appriecated. For the sake of clarity, nothing has been sysnthesized from the words of Her Ladyship ...lol! Really, thank you for those kind words. As for whether I know what sisters go thru day in and day out by wearing a Khamis to the uni, I honestly doubt I do. As i explained above, I think the reaction is somewhat different. They look at how brothers dress from cultural point of view whereas they look from how sisters dress from woman's prospecrive. I think sister Idea shed some light on this issue; it is my belief that they associate, wrongly I may add in agrement with sis Idea, how the sisters cloth with subjecation of woman. What do you think? Sweet Girl, What can I say! Thanks sister. TLG is rigth though, that "adorable" thing is not mine.
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| | Friday, January 12, 2001 - 08:11 am Aren't you all adorable!. Okay let me voice my concerns. I been thinking about this a lot, while travelling through the muslim world a bit, here is what i noticed. Somalia/Somaliland- horn of Africa (so much more easier) Muslims here seem.. on the whole be wearing Islamically inclined clothes for cultural reasons, ie: the way they dress does not corrlate neccesaryly with the way they act. There is pressure for girls to cover up almost in entirity.Boys can wear what they want pratically save chains, shorts- even this they can get away with probably Morocco. here there is almost a strict division between young and old in matters of attire, the young are every western looking and the old more Islamically covered. It is 100% uncoool to rcok anything that is not american looking in this joint. UAE. everyone just looked arabi Okay New deal is thinking along the lines that this is not practically helpful to wear that long white thing, as it is culturally specific. I am not sure, when people see it, i think they think Islam first, or terrorist depending on their level of media intake. generally thing i notoiced is that muslims treat you nicer, and kuffar treat you more strangly.On campus i don't wear, the khamis, in fact i don't wear it in this town, casue it is a very small town, and i can count the number of muslims, black people, anyone who is not anglosaxon on one hand. But when wearing the muslim hat, i have recived comments like he is wearing a stocking on his head. I also wear a muslim, indian type long shirt, which comes past my knees, and this technical worker, i know was asking me if i was wearing a skirt, and said that i was just doing it to impress the ladies..and then he called be a "fairy" in fact he wouldn't shut up about it. then he started asking me if i was always a muslim or if i had just become one, the guy thinking about it now, was kinda real rude and he was always really nice to me before. Non- muslim friends are manshallah every cool about it, besides they know me, and tend to not expect me to bend to their social norms, as i don't party with them,but i catch them looking at me, and thinking "what is he wearing today" okay my point is Lady jane, i think i know how women feel while wearing the Hijaab, you have to muster up inner strength, in order to ignore the comments, glares, remarks and people thinking you are stupid. If i wear Islamic clothing people think all of a sudden i can't speak english, i must be new to the country or something, basically they assume i haven't figured out that i am supposed to roll over, grab a pair of combat pants and play dead untill i am 25 maybe, then i start wearing a suit or somthing. Incidently i wore a suit the other day, and felt self concious as well, maybe i am just a self councious kind of guy?.lol Maybe it helps muslim women, maybe it doesn't, but i think we should at least recognise, that for a lot of women it isn't easy to wear the Hijaab and effectively combat the negative sterotypes it is given. Is wearing the longthing the best way of doing this?, i think new deal is right, it is of little help. Sometimes i force it, and will be like, okay today i am gonna wear it, and struggle though the day, the other times i feel like, well i don't particularly have to wear it, so why do i. Incidently none of the arab people in on my campus, or in the other University in town wear it, older bangladeshi people wear their two peice thing, but their children buss jeans. So i am pretty confused with the whole matter. Essentially when i am in London, i can wear it and its no big deal, because everyone is wearing it, here in rural bumpkin land, i think twice. For women they don't really have that choice,its fard right? so how can we support them? I wrote before that, if girls didn't feel so much pressure in society then a lot more would wear it, thus pleasing Allah and if girls didn't feel so much pressure to wear it at home then a lot more would wear it for the right reaon, for the sake of Allah, thus inshallah pleasing Allah (swt), girls how am i doing?. please correct me on the matter, this page is your page remember!
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| | Friday, January 12, 2001 - 08:42 am Assalamu Alaicum to all of you, Common, I have read your postings with interest. You are right Islam is not practised in the Muslim land and the islamic dress is not exceptianal. About the hijab. I think you are right poeple think that you do npot speak in English etc. I recently started wearing it and I work in an office where majority of the poeple are white and only three women. When I first started I was a bit anxious about the reaction of my boss but alhamdullilah, he was nice about it. Actually he cannot say anything because my job is almost professional. But he was nice to me and asked me a couple of Islamic questions when he saw me with it. He knew I was amuslim anyway. the other staff, i think they are okey, but I am not sure one Arab muslim who does not practice, I do not like his attitude toward me since then. It is true the poeple react according to their media intakes. But most of the poeple their attitude is kind of you are unciviliazed. whether the brothers should wear qamiis, I think that is not necessary. I think they should wear whatever they are confortable with. I beleave you can do more for Islam when you are not isolated from the society. Well, the sisters have to wear it so there is no choice. When i was at college I used to work in a shop. there was also a somali guy who worked with me. sometimse we would have a lot of somali customers and muslims. he would always commont on their hijabs and how they are incapable to adopt the culture. I used to get angry though I myself did not have the scarf. I feel now and find out the non-practisisng muslims can be the worst enemy of the muslims. I must stop now.
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| | Friday, January 12, 2001 - 03:19 pm Salaama Caleykum Dear: Sisters Mashaa Allaah great topics is going on keep up sisters. Sis Arawello I like last words you have said and its true %100 <non-practisisng muslims can be the worst enemy of the muslims.>
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| | Friday, January 12, 2001 - 08:13 pm Salaam ya'll. I have my two cents to put in to the brothers dress code thing but will do that some time soon insha Allah. I came in for one IMPORTANT reason. And that is to congratulte sister ARAWELLO. <I recently started wearing it and I work in an office where majority of the poeple are white and only three women.> Heys sis, that is an important huge step you have taken. May Allah bless you and increase you in your faith. May he make you one that strives for his sake. May Allah make your tongue full of his remembrance and your heart full of his khashya (can't find a better word for it). Ameen. I'm really happy for you sis. "Our lord, let not our hearts deviate (from the truth) after you have guided us, and grant us mercy from you. Truly You are the Bestower." 3:8 P.s. The Arab dude? tell him "chill brotherman":-) Or if he is the type that would be caught dead invoking Islam outside of the mosque, ask him, "maa laka yaa walad?" Is that right Idea?lol
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| | Saturday, January 13, 2001 - 08:41 am TGL, Sister, thank you for your always warm words. I am very greatfull about the encourement from brothers and sisters. The Arab dude, do not worry I can deal with him.
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| | Sunday, January 14, 2001 - 02:21 am Aro Maybe the arab dude, is not muslim?, does he have arab name or a muslim name, maybe he is a druze muslim, etc etc, he could be christain or part of the Zoharianism faith, but you probably figured it out or not, by his name, but sometimes you cannot be so sure Your brother in Islam ps: i think you can deal with him too.lol
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| | Thursday, January 18, 2001 - 08:42 pm Asalaamu alaikum... Ok, I guess I'll keep the tradition and say: you are all adorable:-) First, Anonymous, I always forget to say this (may be because you are anonymous): thanks for your comments and dua. Ok, just a few things. I agree with New Deal on the point that we shouldn't standardize hijab (i.e. the somali style). I have comments like the following from some aunties in the masaajid, "You are still wearing the khimar. When will you wear the real hijab?" Well, I do agree that the best type of hijab is probably the Somali style. No doubt. But, I also think that people should be allowed to crawl before they can walk. Besides, depending on someone's circumstance, I think it should be ok for people to wear what they are comfortable with and suits their specific situation as long as the requirements of hijab are met. As for me, the Somali style hijab, though I think is the most proper hijab, is not convenient for my circumstance. Here is why. Due to the natue of my courses and work sometimes, I have to be in a labortory setting. Just imagine how convenient this type of hijab is when carrying out reactions or using bunsen burners, doing PCR, getting something out of an autoclave etc etc etc. However, I don't wear pants. Just long skirts and dresses and rock Jilbaabs/a'abiyaahs a lil more often now. In agreement with New Deal, I also think there is a segregation btn "hijabis" and "non-hijabis". The best way to deal with this is to not be judgemental about people. The "non-hijabis" think that the "hijabis" are being judgemental about them so they avoid being around them. The "hijabis" think the othe party is ashamed of being associated with them, so they stay away from them. The best way to deal with the problem is to give people the benefit of the doubt. Let them think what they wanna think. We should fulfill our islamic duty by saying salaams to anyone who we know to be Muslim and treating them equally. We should interract with both parties and try to include them in our plans or the things we do. As for the brothers dress thing, I believe it does lend some sort of support to the sisters however small it may be(and will definitely insist "my future" wear it, if we are to live in the West). Most of the brothers in our campus do wear the Sharwal Khamis (the Indo-Pak type) to Jumua'h and Islamic lectures on campus. Very few of them wear the khamis/dashdashah. Either case, I have never asked what people think about them or whatever their view point is. I'm actually thinking of trying out a lil experiment where some brothers will wear the khamis/dashdashah and see people's reaction to it. Common, you did pretty well :-) I understand your points on pressuring the girls and all. However, I have always wondered where to draw the line. I mean, it is the responsibility of the parents to enforce specifics things. However, forcing people to do things only breads an aversion to that thing most often. So, how far should they go if the children are not willing to abide by the rules? (interms of insisting their daughters wear hijab). Actually, I wanna hear from the brothers on this coz the stereotype is, if you are a muslim woman wearing hijab, it is because you are being forced by some male relative! As for people treating you differently when you are "Islamically" dresssed, it happens all the time. I mean, I've seen cases where u walk into an office and people all of a sudden start speaking (English) louder and more slowly. But once u start speaking, u see a startled look on their faces. I don't blame them though. I would have done the same thing if some Oriental person walked into an office in Somalia and bust out with some strong Somali accent (I'll beat up whoever spoils my analogy by saying this used to happen in Somalia..lol). Seriously though, don't u guys agree? Actually, what gets to my nerves more than them thinking I don't speak English is when they pull out the, "oh you speak English so well, were U born here?" Like i'm supposed to get some comfort out of that! That is the times I feel like smacking them right a cross the face! Looking forward to hear more from you all. salaam.
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| | Saturday, January 20, 2001 - 11:37 am Salaams to all, TLG, I will be awaiting to see the outcome of that lil experiment. Honestly, I don't mind wearing it but I just wonder if it indeed lessens the pressure on the sisters who wear hijab. And, and I know I will get in trouble for saying this, but there are some people who don't belief that khimar is hijab!! Personally I totally agree with you that the Somali Hijab is probably the most complete hijab of all, however it is not the only one. As long as the thing meets requirements of covering, we should respect it for that. About that stereotype, I think it is only just that. How else can we explain so many sisters going to institutes of higher education and yet who opt to go hijab? Are their parents forcing them? I dooon't think so. It is actually from their conviction that they chose to hijab. The same is true about our belief: it isn't that i believe Allah and Muhammed (PBUH) and Islam because that is what may parents want me to belief but rather because I have come to appreciate it. Living in the West just increased that conviction thousand folds. This is so because you see all other systems and you look at them and become to the realization that Islam is the only din acceptable to Allah ("Ina diina Inda-Allahi Islaam" al-Qur'an). So, i don't buy the argument of the parents being pressuring their daughter into wearing hijab. That said, I'm happy that Muslim parents give their children the right dose of belief so that they may be aware of it when they become full-fledged adults who can make their own choices. Well, i guess that is about it for now. Till next time, take care guys. PS, TLG "my future?" is something on the works sis? Oops, if I crossed the line, I take back my question. salaam
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| | Saturday, January 20, 2001 - 07:24 pm Asalaamu alaikum, New Deal, thanks for your always balanced input. I will let you know what the outcome of the lil "experiment" is. I guess the question I was trying to ask was how far the parents should go in imposing islamic rulings. Specifically, if you were a parent living in the West (or any other non-Muslim country) and you have a teenage girl that tells you she doesn't want to wear hijab, would you force her to wear it? This is after you have talked to her and explained to her the best way you could about the importance and the benefits of covering. Why? or why not? Oh yeah, New Deal, the "my future" thing, the answer to your question is, not the last time I checked. I was just saying that the poor brother that ends up with me in the future will be "forced" to wear khamis/dashdaashah occassionally.
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| | Sunday, January 21, 2001 - 02:47 am A salaam aleikum Adorable people! you guys have the coolest conversation, i could eavesdrop for hours.. if eavesdropping was Islamically appropriate of course. 
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| | Sunday, January 21, 2001 - 07:41 pm Common, would u stop eavesdropping and start contributing? :-)
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| | Monday, January 22, 2001 - 01:11 am Congratulations TLG I stumbled on this page by mistake, but it was worth it. I almost read all messages prior to this, and I am reassured that there is hope. New Deal, way to go, bro. Ladyjane, Thank you for helping MADMAC get sane. Sweetgirl,you are a pearl, what a great remark on stray look, that does not heed the advice in our book. May I kindly add this: After all is said, I wear my long thowb for fajr prayer to a nearby mosque. and Fridays. But brothers and sisters, Allah does not look at our images and colors, but rather to our hearts and deeds. The latter two are least cared for, but weigh most in the day of judgement. No one will go to heaven who does not have a clean heart.(Good intentions that seek Allah) I am in no way implying that hijab is not important, I am only prioritizing our efforts lest we get hung up on a lesser issue and forget the most important issues of all. Sisters, the struggle to wear a hijab begins in the heart, it succeeds when the heart is firm on its belief, and the battle is lost when the heart is weak or bankrupt. The heart is like the software that drives the hardware. When we find that a sister is not wearing a hijab, that is only the symptom of a flaw in her innerself. Any effort to correct actions of a person, should begin at the inner level. As a living example from the Sunnah, the Prophet Muhammad SAWS, did not legislate the wearing of the hijab at the beginning of his message. In Makkah the prophet was sitting on the corner of the KAABA worshipping Allah while naked pagan women were going around it for Tawaf. Initially He focused on the inner faith, not the outside of the person. It took thirteen years in Makkah to make man know his God and hence love him so much that they were willing to give up everything for his pleasure. They gave up their lifestyle, their wine, pleasure, and finally their lives in Badr. During the prohibition, the US government spent millions to outlaw alcohol, and failed. four verses in the Quran brought drinking to stand still " Are you then stopping to drink" the ayah read, and Omar ibnul khattab with a cup of wine in his hand responded " yes our lord" it was his last cup. Once I visited a relatives home, a cousin of mine walked in to say hello to me in a very revealing attire that I felt was unbefitting. As she was interested to talk to me I chose to discuss the Love of Allah as the topic. In few minutes she was completely covered and had tears in her eyes. Her inner self has suddenly changed, and immediately her outside followed. This sister who I have never discussed with her about Hijab, has memorized almost the intire Quraan. The moral of the story is, Fix the inside, the outside will follow. Not the other way around. Your brother in Islam
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| | Monday, January 22, 2001 - 01:21 am A salaama aleikum Nur deep message, thanks saxiib. May Allah reward you for your efforts and inshallah bless you with abode in jannah. ja saku allahu Kahir TGL. lol
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| | Monday, January 22, 2001 - 03:11 am TLG, Three months ago, when i found these forumss u have no idea how happy i was!Now, i don't know if that was luck or unluck!!!most ppl here act weird, i m finding myself becoming a weird too!! sister, just stay away from some folks. They r fake. May Allah protect. See you here Just in WEEKENDS :-) or else i will demand from koffi Anan to fire you :-)
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| | Monday, January 22, 2001 - 06:36 pm Asalaamu alaikum, Nur, thanks brother for your input. Very deep and far sighted I would say. jazakallahu khairan. Idea, lol sis...If you are refering to what is going on in the "TLG folder", don't worry. When people decide to participate in open discussions, anything is possible. Expect the unexpected is the phrase to describe this sort of place. I hope I didn't scare off New Deal with my question on what to do with a "rebellious" teenage girl who does not want to wear hijab. Common, no pressure brotherfiend. I was just teasing about the contribution thing. salaam.
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| | Monday, January 22, 2001 - 07:27 pm Common and TLG Jazaakumu Allahu khairan for your feedback, Please pray for me. I prayed for you in my Salaat.
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| | Tuesday, January 23, 2001 - 05:38 am Salaam, all Idea, May I say that you are really good friend and sister of our beloved TLG. See, a friend is one who is concerned for you when he/she sees things that would bother them but immediately think about you; in other words they will put you in their shoes. You are such a friend and TLG must be really happy the gift of you by Allah. I'm sure you have the same concerns for all of us. I had similar concerns when I started coming to this forums and was worried a bit at the begining. However, the lovely discussions and exchange of ideas I had with Common, TLG, yourself and other brothers and sisters indicated to me the benefits of these folders. Are same ppl fake? I think so. Common, brother, brother ...What was I gonna say? forget it. Seriously, what do you think about TLG's question: how parents should deal with rebellious girl and who deosn't want to cover? I'm awaiting your input on this. TLG, This question should have come up early in our discussion since it is directly related to the title of the folder. Well,may be you have asked but as they say "DAMIN FAR WAAWEYN YAA WAX LOOGU QORAA" (I have to use the somali proverb because it is the best in this instance although it downed on me right now how both of you aren't good at it). It means ...whatever! I honestly think that the question needs a lot of discussion. I suppose here is where the argument of parents forcing someone to do certain thing is made. Some people argue that because backhome children are told to do something without why they should, many reject it one they are outside of that environment. I tend to believe otherwise. I think parents should give their children a set of values that they can grow up with and use as a benchmark for future activities. So, the question than is how do we deal with "rebellious" teenager who doesn't want to cover? This is what we need to discuss, and I think many of our parents don't know how to deal with such teenager. I don't feel like you can force such child to go hijab but I wouldn't feel bad if the parents force them to hijab because I think they owe it for them. Teenagers really most of the time don't know what they are doing and perhaps reasoning with them will work. But rebellious teenagers have their own rules and ways of doing things. And although there will always be a bad apple, the only thing that will work is to not lose hope on such child. As you can see, my beloved sister, I do not have a formed answer on how to handle such child and perhaps you can enlight us on this matter. Would you, please? New Deal
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| | Tuesday, January 23, 2001 - 06:13 am New Deal " O mankind , we have sent down for you garments that cover your privacy and feathers. And the garment of TAQWA ( Piety ), that is better, that is indeed one of the signs of Allah....." A rough translation of a verse in Quraan describing the origins of clothing and its purpose. The purpose of clothing is to observe Piety, the verse describes piety as virtual clothing that is even better than physical clothing. You see, physical clothing conforms to common norms. Taqwa, the virtual clothing, covers and hides our evil side of our souls. Hence a better garment as Allah said. As I have previously said, it will be worth your while to help me steer this discussion toward the root cause of rebellion of young Somali girls. As a teen ager, I was also a rebel without a cause, Going against the stablished norms was thrilling to me, I enjoyed the attention and the raised eyebrows of my folks. But, my folks were wise enough not to be too controlling and dictating. As a teen ager, I hanged around with a pious friend, who always took time to pray while we were having fun playing. At times I would wait until he is done with prayer so we can go out. This friend of mine never asked me to pray, never criticized me, he accepted me as I was, but he was a living example of Islam.His actions spoke much louder than any sermon I heard. One day, I reasoned that I should also be praying, I asked him to help me, and he did. He taught me dua, he taught me good Islamic etiquette ( Akhlaaq) that have helped me to this day. When I look back, I get inspiration that what worked for me should also work for teen agers today. What teen agers need is someone to understand them, not someone to criticise them. You have to come to their side, feel their tribulation, tell them that you were also as goofy as they are when you were younger, dictatorial parents, who do not explain reasons why. My suggestion to anyone with a loved teenager relative, is to be kind, to these young people, they need a fiend in their family, do not force them to seek one outside.
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| | Tuesday, January 23, 2001 - 06:36 am Salaam, all (it's me again) Nur, Bro thank you for such lovely message and deep words. As I look forward to many of your contributions on the ongoing discussion, let me welcome you to this folder . Brother, please don't feel like I'm critizing you in the following message or attempting anything else--I wanted to say this afront lest someone may think otherwise. I don't wish to play the role of critic or observer but only wish to register my agreements or disagreements with your post. I must confess how hard this is since your message was so great and lovely worded. This is a compliment but not a criticism. That said, i found some arguments you made a bit troubling. For starters, i found myself disagreeing with you on how you used the saying that "Allah does not look at our images and colors, but rather to our hearts and deeds," and using it for prioritizing tasks. I found myself asking, "how doesn't hijab, or covering, doesn't appear on the top list? Was it not a direct order from Allah the High that all Muslim ladies cover? Shouldn't things that are direct order have higher priority than the rest? brother, I know you mean well, but doesn't covering indicate a direct sickness of the heart? How can a heart that fears allah reject a command from the same Allah it fears? And isn't covering the deeds that Allah looks at? See, the hijab falls on the camp of "Heart and deeds" rather than the camp of "images and colors." Honestly, i think you get the use of the phrase "Images and colors" incorrect. Images and colors don't mean covering, the way we dress, or going for hijab. Rather, the Hadith is refering to our different ethnicities and colors: white, black, red or blue if there is such color. It is refering to our different ethnicties: Somali, Arab, European, Canadian, aMerican and the like. These are the things that are irrelevant to Allah. But Allah looks at the heart, the ideology that one believes and carries with him. The heart and the way of living one chooses; is such way consistent with the manhaj of Allah? Is it contrary to the path drawn by Allah? and so forth and so on. As i said at the begining, I'm quite sure your intentions are good and genuine. I have found myself in agreement with you on how we must work on our hearts, how could I disagree with you in a time the hearts are hardened like a rock or worse than a rock?! The hearts are dead and are in great need of much softening. I just found myself disagreeing with you on what you meant "prioritizing" when it comes to covering. Besides, suggesting that acts ordainded by Allah should have lower priority seems lack of understanding its source. And before anyone pulls the argument that Allah's laws have different priorities on the ladder, let me say this: you can't compare apples with oranges. The Fiqh of the things are clear, and covering is clearly not one of those things that should be at the bottom of the ladder. Now, for the sake of clarity let me draw an example. If a girl doesn't pray, would I talk to her about the importance of Salah or Hijab. Clearly one who doesn't pray has no relationship with Allah, so opening the line of communication is the first thing. But i don't see conflict in talking about hijab and importance of Salah at the same time. hey, if I'm convincing enough, I may persued the person on both matters at the same talk. That said, I wouldn't put pressure on the person to go cover, because that has to come from their heart. This is where I agree with you brother, that what we do should be from our own desire and not pressure from the outside world. So, I would say lets give everyone space of their own but LETS talk about things: Decision-making is for the person, discussion is for all. I said much, but I wanted to end with this note. I'm very happy that your cousin was moved by your message and talk. I'm delighted to hear how she changed and I hope Allah will reward you for such action. Since you have used this example to illustrate a point, I would relate to you my input. Again, no offense to you or your cousin but the example needs analyzes. So she changed, and almost memorized the Qur'an. Memorizing the Qur'an and not covering, if that is the case! I coud be assuming something different, but if that is the case, then what is wrong with that picture? I would talk about hijab rather than memorizing the Qur'an. Or shold I ask, have you ever had the chance to talk to her about hijab and its importance? See, memorizing Qur'an wouldn't be on my list but hijab would. Brother, I have said all of the above with good intentions. I have no dispute with you or any reason to critize what you have said. Because we are in a discussion forums, I have to register my disagreements and agreements. If I have offended you in anyway, the blame lies with me. Should have I said something you didn't suggest in your post, the blame lies with me. Anywrong doing is from me, and all right things from Allah. I hope we can discuss matters in good manner. If I totally misunderstood your message, I hope we will discuss it. New Deal
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| | Tuesday, January 23, 2001 - 06:50 am Nur, Masha-Allah. I was just reading your message and couldn't agree with you more (It seems that you were posting your message as Iw as writing my initial message addressed to you). Yes, brother, caring for them and living Islam as an example is much better than talking about it. I agree with you hudnred percentage. And I also agree with you in using that methodology. Here, on the forums, we all seem to be on the same level and shoes so we shall discuss things and what methods worked and which ones did not. We shall point our mistakes and also rights, critize but also compliment when one deserves it. I personally agree with you that many times doing the right thing is more powerful to your peers then talking to them about it. This is why I early argued that we should hang out with all people, whether they are Islamists or not. And this is why i pointed out the problem of the relationship betweeen those sisters who Cover and those who don't, which sister TLG suggested its remedy. I had witnessed experience similar to yours, and since you shared with us yours, let it be a living example. i will say more later, Insha allah. New Deal
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| | Tuesday, January 23, 2001 - 10:12 am Hey Common, have you noticed what I noticed about this brother of ours (i'm not gonna name names)? First, he appeals to you for help, "I want your input on this". Then he turns the question back to me, "would u please enlighten us on the matter sister"? Nur and New Deal, jazaakumullahu khairan for your sharings. Hey Girls, I would like to hear your input on this too. To be honest, I have no idea how to handle such a child either. but will throw in my two cents some other time insha Allah. salaam.
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| | Tuesday, January 23, 2001 - 11:40 am TLG, Okay you got me there. Or should I use the infamous line “did I do that?” I’m still laughing (you should have seen the big smile my face wore when I read your lines!) And you wouldn’t mention names …lol! Here is my response on how to handle the rebellious teenager as related to dress and identity. First I would assume that such child would have more problems than simply the dress code, but lets assume she is otherwise fine accept when it comes to dressing. If we were to do research, we would find out that the parental reaction could be typified as follows. 1. A do-nothing camp that would remain indifferent on the behavior of the child. This group worries about how their reaction may precipitate matters, and such remain silent on the whole matter. It might also be due the fact that they are indifferent on how their child dresses. 2. A Harsh-Response camp. This was the typical Somali responses back home where the child was told to take a hike, perhaps move out of the house. In short, the response was harsh and unyielding. 3. Moderate camp. Typically attempt to balance their responses, yield now and then and are unyielding other times. The do-nothing camp is doing great harm for the well being of the child, and thus to humanity at large. The harsh-response camp is doing great unjust to the child and perhaps causing that very child to be lost to the world of beasts. Their reaction typically worsens matters. If the dress was an issue, because of their response matters of great importance get injured. Now it was about hijab, the next thing you know is the teenager saying “I’m praying only because of you and not on my own.” Then things get worse progressively. Although I don’t have child, the approach of the moderate camp would be the best. The use of Hikma could help the matter a lot. Creating unbroken relationship would be the first step towards talking to the child. Once you become good friends, then things will work out for the best. But what does crating unbroken relationship mean? Well, it means giving in sometimes to the behavior of the child while other times remaining unyielding. It means allowing yourself being cheated a little while you know it, but also attempting to cheat the behavior of your child now and then. It also means giving up on dress if insistence on it would result greater harm, such as the loss of the child or constant quarrel that produces unproductive environment. Perhaps this is what brother Nur meant prioritizing, except that I would argue it is matter of thinking about which evils is more harmful as supposed to prioritizing things. Now, all of the above is how I think I would handle the matter but of course it is an academic discussion at this point. Who knows how I would react when I become a parent. This is how I feel about the matter, so TLG, and Idea, from the sisters prospective how would you have done it? And TLG, don’t give me that “There you go again, sending the question back to me” talk and ENLGIHT US PLZ …lol! New DEal
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| | Tuesday, January 23, 2001 - 06:55 pm Asalaamu alaikum, New Deal, I knew I could tease a response out of you...lol. Ok, i'm off your case now :-) Nur and New Deal, masha allah. Both of you guys gave a beautiful response. It is all about balance and u skillfully indicated this in your responses. Now I guess I need to tease a response out Common, Arawello, Idea and the rest. My two cents are still coming insha Allah. Salaam.
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| | Tuesday, January 23, 2001 - 07:31 pm New Deal My cousin started covering before I even finished my discussion of the love of Allah, she pulled a piece of sheet next to her and before the end of my beloved topic, ( the Love of Allah), her entire body was covered from head to toe, as I said her eyes were covered with a lot of tears. From this point on, she became one of the most dedicated people I have known. Love of Quran, needless to say, was driven by her love for Allah. This is an illustration of were to go first to correct an apparent problem. New deal. My main point is that if you are a doctor, do not fall for apparent symptoms of illness. Look for the root cause, the saying goes " If you give a person a fish , you feed her for a day, if you show her how to fish, you feed her for a lifetime. Talking about Hijab to a weak sister, is like administering a bandaid solution. A sister who is praying and still has problem wearing Hijab has an inner problem as opposed to an outer problem. What we are after is not covering the sister per se, rather, to give her an identity that she is proud of, and defends it with vigor in the mids of non believers like my beloved sister in Allah TLG. To reach that level, one must be patient with the sister, kind, understanding and caring. If you become all of that to her, what you represent will appeal to her greatly. I repeat again, all of our efforts will fail if we do not address the underlying reasons that makes a person not conform with Allah's orders. Rest assured that I have trained myself to be selfless in the path of Allah, I take criticism with a smile, and I make a dua for anyone who helps me correct my views. jazakallah
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| | Tuesday, January 23, 2001 - 07:53 pm TLG Every discipline has its Jargon, EE students have developed this classification of sisters. Type A: is called a SISTER, she wears her Hijab properly, according the Quran and Sunna and has grown to a level that she only cares about Allah. Her heart is healthy, she is serene, joyful,and pleasant,( Qalbun Saleem)This sister should help others. Type B: Transistor, she is convinced in Islam, wears a scarf and blue jeans, she prays her salat, she is in between, she needs a lot of attention, and help, she is up for grabs, if "liberated" people come to her she is like them, and if serious muslims come she loves them, but she has'ne made the Hijra yet. Her heart is sick but curable, This is the sister that needs the most effort Type C: Resistor, she is resisting any advice, she is very loose, no salat, no even a scarf, she attacks Islam as a backward and muslims as uncivilized, she is happy hanging around with non muslims and feels isolated when she is with devout muslims. Her heart is dead, only Allah can revive.
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| | Wednesday, January 24, 2001 - 03:49 am <playing with the mind of TLG> teasing her, with the possiblity of a message..... should i speak now? or forever hold my peace? woe what torment!.lol. A. a.a.a. <teasing you with the first letter of the alpabet> to get your pusle running high.lol. I will write soon, difficult issue for me, i am real close to three sisters neither of whom Hijaab and My Moms is almost the centre of my world and she kind of semi hijaabs, of course after Allah(swt) and the Nabi (pbuh) So i wouldn't want my love for them to cloud the issue. I will try and write soon though sister. Ja zaku allahu kahir
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| | Wednesday, January 24, 2001 - 04:15 am Nur, Can I ask you a question (but please don't ask me later Why?): Are you a Suffi by any chance??? New Deal, Thanks abti :-) can I join your Somali class as well. TLG, the ever crazy girl...lol. How we could treat a rebellious girl???hmmmmmmmm... I think if that was my daugther i would have taken her to some rural area in Somalia and let her live and see how some people do strive for living. How hard life is and that nothing is served in a golden plate. While she is seeing all that, i would definitely give her all my tender love and caring and try to help her see life through a different perspective. If my mum would have to answer such a question, i believe that she would say give her LOTS N LOTS N LOTS of LOVE and caring and try to redirect her without she noticing that she is being pressured. If my father would have to answer that, i think he would say...give her RESPONSIBILITY... make her think that she is an important individual and her actions and decisions are taken seriously. Anyway, if the people around that girl reach a status were all parties do comprehend what is causing all this problem, then , i believe the therapy process is easy. The ordeal is to know what is the disease...pple don't rebel because they are fond of saying No!
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| | Wednesday, January 24, 2001 - 05:10 am Idea sister i think your question to Nur is a bad one, am not sure though, can anyone help me out?
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| | Wednesday, January 24, 2001 - 06:44 am Nur, Thank you so much for your kindly response, and for adding more info onto your earlier example--it made matters much clearer. See, earlier you gave us the example while the subject we were discussing was "dress code" and you related how your example changed immediately and memorized the whole Quran. The missing info was whether she got covered during that period of change. You made your point, in the latter postings, with much clarity and I couldn't agree with you more. Yes, we must not fall for the symptoms while attempting to recognize the root cause of the symptoms. But how do you recognize that root cause is the question. Again, we are not discussing the cover per se but the whole identity of the girls, and in that sense I agree with you. Again, the question is how do we go about it. Lastly, I have favor to ask you. You see, the example you gave us changed within the period of your talk. And I'm reading it wondering if this is an isolated incident. In other words, the majority of people will not behave the same way. Very few people can be moved by one talk and change at that talk. So, do you think this incident to be wide spread? Finally, I'm glad you have viewed my post as a part of discussion and not critizism. I too learned few thing from your posts and still learning from them. See, I like discussions of this sort because I learn from them my shortcomings and wrongs as well as other peoples prospectives. I agree with and disagree now and then. So, thank you. Ow, I don't seem to end, but your later response that typified our sisters into three groups hit the nail right on the head. How do we deal with the three types remains to be the question and the center of the gravity. I shall discuss later with how to deal with the weak sister and the lost soul. TLG, Thanks sister for your teasing. Apparantely you succeded with sister Idea and now you must tackle Common and the others. Idea, I thought you were disappearing on us! Thanks for that beautiful response and new dimesnion to the ongoing discussion. Do you think taking the daughter into rural area in Somalia would be part of the solution? I seem to like the responses of your "imageniry" mather and father better. I don't know, perhaps I don't see how taking her back home would solve the matter. Take care guys, New Deal
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| | Wednesday, January 24, 2001 - 10:04 am Lol @ Common...Ok i'll help u out. Nur, ignore ideas question. See, this sister who I happen to love sooo much has her mind messed up by 6 years of economics. Infact her mind is sooo messed up that she is sooo honest and innocent about things. And do u know why she is asking if you are a sufi? She (being an economist) is, what is the word...just messed up. She is a fraid that anyone who might be inclined to zuhud might mess up her grand plan of Islamic Economics. i.e. she is afraid she might be told to donate all the money of her investors to the poor...lol. Ok, I guess I must prepare my own grave since i'm about to be killed Common it is all your fault. You made me write that. You practically took my fingers and pressed on the keyboard. You are sooo oppressive Common. Why would u make people what they don't wanna do? Or is it a colonial legacy. You learne from them eh?
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| | Wednesday, January 24, 2001 - 10:06 am As you can all see...I typed that in a rush and half of it doesn't make sense...oh well, you guys sort it out. I'm late for a meeting.
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| | Wednesday, January 24, 2001 - 10:14 am Tawhid in Sufism The face was red with flushing blood as he tried to stop his breath for as long as he could. The eyes bulged out, though staring at nothing. Small rivulets of perspiration shone on the forehead, and the voice coming through the foaming mouth was barely audible. He could scarcely speak when he tried to complete his sentence, and then did that through his gestures, nodding with satisfaction as if the message had been transmitted by some telepathic process. The man, a neighbour of mine, was not faking it out. He was a highly educated professional and belonged to a very respectable family. He truly believed in what he was trying to say. Somehow -- perhaps because of my appearance -- he had a misconception that I belonged to his ‘clan’. So he took very little time to begin sharing his ideas with me: ‘The fragrance of flowers, the song of birds, the air, everything... but then, you know it. Yes, yes, you know it. I am Allah, you are Allah, everything is Allah....’ I realised afterwards that in a very crude manner, the man was expressing (though technically incorrectly) ideas he had gathered from some Sufi.... The Qur’anic concept of Tawhid (monotheism) is that there is only one God -- Allah. All those characteristics which can only be associated with God must not be attributed to anyone else. The Qur’an says: Declare [O Prophet] that1 God is One2! He is the rock.3 He is neither anyone’s father nor anyone’s son. And none is equal to Him.[112:1-3] Therefore, the whole world is His creation: He is above all, and there is nothing like Him. It is the correct belief in God which enlightens the heart and solves the riddle this universe is. Every creation points out to the fact that there must be a Creator and therefore reflects God: Allah is the Light of the heavens and the earth. [24:35] In Sufism, however, Tawhid, is expressed as ‘only Absolute Reality is absolutely real’. To the Sufi, this concept of Tawhid is different from pantheism (regarded un-Islamic by almost all the Muslim scholars), for the Sufistic Tawhid is not ‘everything is God’: it is ‘God is everything’, or, more ostensibly, ‘there is nothing except God’. The result is that in Sufism, Tawhid expressed as la ilaha illallah (there is no God but Allah) is the Tawhid of the ordinary, whereas the Tawhid of the elect is la mawjuda illallah (there is nothing but Allah). This means that whatever we see does not have any significance, for it does not exist in reality. It is only relatively real. What does exist in reality is God. Ibn ‘Arabi writes in his book Fususu’l-Hikam: Although, apparently Creation is distinct from the Creator, in reality the Creator is but Creation and Creation is but the Creator. All these are from one reality. Nay, it is but He who is the Only Reality, and it is He Who manifests Himself in all these realities. This concept is called Wahdatu’l-Wajud (Unity of Being): the idea is that a knife and a sword, for example, are called by their respective names and are treated as distinct and separate items. But when their ‘essence’ steel moves wara u’l-wara (‘beyond the beyond’, that is beyond all forms and shapes), it is called steel. Similarly, God is considered as the Ultimate Reality, which is transcendent (beyond shape and form) but in essence immanent in Creation. In the words of Sha Muhammad Isma‘il (‘Abaqat, ‘abaqah 20, al-isha#rah u’l-awwal): For all Creation, Ma bihitta ‘yun4 is only one Definite being. Another version of this concept is Wahdatu’l-Shahud (Unity of Appearance), according to which, God is the only Reality, and everything else is illusion. This version is again the same concept expressed in a different way. According to Sha Muhammad Isma‘il (‘Abaqa#t, ‘abaqah 20, al-isharahu’l-awwal): ...deep analysis will show that there is no difference except that owing to the difference in their stages and in their ways of reaching Lahut,5 they [the proponents of the two versions] have adopted varying styles to express their opinions. Such beliefs often result in a strong tendency to regard a man’s physical self as a ‘form’ and to consider this form as an obstruction in his going warau’l-wara (beyond the beyond) and in reaching the Ultimate Reality. Theosophical (to be more precise, existential) realisation of this Reality through self-denial and self-control becomes the ultimate goal of life, whereas according to the Qur’an, the purpose of man's life is worship and servitude to God (51-56) and the purpose of religion is the purification of his soul to enable him to do just that (62:2). In Sufism, therefore, purification of the soul becomes the ultimate target of the Sufi’s life rather than becoming the outcome of following the dictates of Islam. For this purification, rituals and methods other than those recommended or demanded by Islam are often prescribed with such authority6 and adhered to with such pertinacity that they virtually amount to innovation in religion. That which is a means to an end becomes the end in itself: man's humility, which in Islam leads to servitude, becomes a source of his pride in Sufism; servitude, which makes him a humble servant of his Master, makes him the Master. According to Sufism, perfect awareness of the Absolute Reality results in the Sufi's being absolutely unaware of Creation and of his own self; to be more precise, it results in his being aware of the fact that in reality there is no existence of Creation and even of his own self. This concept often leads to great imbalance; in negating his ego, the Sufi ends up worshipping it; in negating Creation, he negates life itself. Absolute negation of the self is impracticable, absolute negation of Creation impractical. No Man born of a woman can conceive nothingness for himself, unless he is deranged enough not to perceive anything at all. Life is not insignificant. Nor is consciousness. And every one of us knows this. Life still brings laughter, death still summons tears. Intellect is still honoured, lack of consciousness is still regarded as insanity. A man thinks and therefore is. When he thinks, he knows -- consciously or otherwise -- that it is `he' who is thinking. Therefore, if he thinks or believes that he does not exist -- that only God exists --, then he will usually end up thinking or believing that it is ‘he’ who is actually God. But God he cannot be. For the best of men -- the messengers of God --, even in their greatness, always remained in want of their Lord's mercy for the most minor of their needs: Allahumma inni lima anzalta ilayya min khayrin faqir Lord! verily I am needy for anything you may bestow upon me out of good. [A prayer of Moses (sws); see the Qur’a#n 28:24] Allahumma inni ‘abduka, ibn ‘bdika, ibn amatika, nasiyati biyadik.... Lord! verily I am your slave, the son of your bondman, the son of your bondwoman, my forelock is in your hands. [that is I am completely in your power].... [A bedtime prayer of the Prophet (sws)]. Even a messenger of God is a servant of his Master. To him God is the Master whom he loves with all his heart and all his mind and all his soul. To the Sufi, however, God is the beloved whose love leads him to realise the Ultimate Reality -- and thus makes him the Master (though the Sufi will sometimes deny this. However, as long as ‘he’ believes -- consciously or otherwise -- that nothing expect God exists, he will usually be thinking of himself as the Deity7). The usual result of this shift in the object is that in addition to the spiritual exercises and rituals recommended or prescribed by Islam to enable man to worship and serve God, the Sufi virtually makes many other exercises and rituals obligatory, which often leave him with very little energy and motivation to do God's bidding where it is actually required. And since the Sufi has a philosophical foundation for this shift from the balance required by Islam, he usually ends up being a slave of his own desires. Vis-a-vis the society as a whole, the object of an individual’s life as envisaged by Sufism is impractical ad absurdum, as realisation of the object by all would mean negation of Creation by all and therefore negation of society, whereas realisation of the object of a man’s life as envisaged by Islam would result in the creation of a truly harmonious society. Worshipping and serving God entail responsibility towards society. One’s affiliation with society is not negated as such in Islam as a goal for achieving self-purification, just as none of the blessings of God is negated for this purpose, howsoever trivial it may appear to be. Only when such negation becomes necessary for preventing a greater injustice to the society or to one's own self does Islam allow -- and in some cases demand -- that an individual deny the privileges he has and negate his affiliation with his society. In Sufism, however, there seems to be a strong tendency to regard asceticism as highly desirable per se. If nothing else, there is at least an abnormal emphasis on the negation of worldly life: Ibn ‘Ata Allah writes: The source of every disobedience, indifference, and passion is self-satisfaction. The source of every obedience, vigilance, and virtue is dissatisfaction with one’s self. (Tr. Cryil Glasse, The Concise Encyclopaedia of Islam, second edition, London: Stacey International, 1991, p. 378). Al Ghazali says in a al-Munqidh mina‘l-Dalal: Then I turned my attention to the Way of the Sufis. I knew that it could not be traversed to the end without both doctrine and practice, and that the gist of the doctrine lies in overcoming the appetites of the flesh and getting rid of its evil dispositions and vile qualities, so that the heart may be cleared of all but God.... When I considered the intention of my teaching, I perceived that instead of doing it for God's sake alone I had no motive but the desire for glory and reputation. I realised that I stood on the edge of a precipice and would fall into Hellfire unless I set about to mend my ways... Conscious of my helplessness and having surrendered my will entirely, I took refuge with God as a man in sore trouble who has no resource left. God answered my prayer and made it easy for me to turn my back on reputation and wealth and wife and children and friends. (Tr. Cyril Glasse, The Concise Encyclopaedia of Islam, second edition, London: Stacey International, 1991. p. 379) Is this abnormal inclination towards asceticism deliberate? Is it obligatory or merely desirable? -- these questions may be debatable. However, one thing is certain. As far as the concept of perfect awareness of the Absolute Reality is concerned, it inevitably leads to the conceptual negation of Creation and therefore of society. Perhaps because of the impracticability and impracticality of their ideas, the Sufis have usually regarded it desirable per se not to reveal their inner thoughts about Tawhid (and when they do reveal them, the style they use makes their language unintelligible to most people), whereas the Prophet (sws) was told to communicate his message clearly as part of his mission (the Qur’an 5:67): Know therefore that the ultimate of all disciples of Mystic intuition is this Tawhid, and the secrets of this discipline and cannot be written in any book because, according to a saying of ‘Arifin [those who have achieved awareness], exposing the secrets of Divinity amounts to infidelity. [al-Ghazali, Ihya ‘Ulumi’l-Din, Vol. 4. p. 641]
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| | Wednesday, January 24, 2001 - 10:16 am http://islamicweb.com/beliefs/cults/sufism.htm
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| | Wednesday, January 24, 2001 - 10:33 am New Deal, Maybe...maybe not!!! But i have heard many many cases where Somali parents took their kids back to Somlia running from Western immorality. Though i strongely believe that the moral system of any child mostly depends on how that child is raised...but i don't think you or I can deny the effect of the external effect or the environment! And secondly, how come you see rural Somalia as a bad idea?? That is where our ancestors came from. Where You and I should think of building and taking it as a home. Or are you one of those ppl who think the West is their home. Or are you one of those who think that..well there is war going on..what i can do??? Don't take my words as they may look...i have been told that i have a harsh style. I am sorry if you feel offended, but there is no intention for that. Anyway, i think this whole generation is kinda messed up(including myself). I think it is time that we should stop dreaming and take matters by our own hands. Allah doesn't change the situtaion of people unless they start changing it by themselves. Don't you agree with me, New Deal. I do apologize again for going off topic. How could rural place help? well facing harsh circumstances sometimes does teach human beings lessons no one else can teach. Common, bad question! okay :-) But sufism is not bad!!! Nur, Democracy is good. Feel free to disregard my question. And you are welcomed to show me my pitfalls. No one is perfect except Allah. May Allah guide us all to what is right.
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| | Wednesday, January 24, 2001 - 10:53 am To who ever posted the above post. First of all thank you, i am making this short coz i have to run to pray salaat al-asr. Anyway, be4 i log off. What i was referring was to the basic principle of Sufim the love of Allah. I can't see someone to love Allah as a bad thing. I don't know of the many sects that exist within Sufism but definitely there are so many many defiant sects out there. Like that of the twelvers of the Shia!! Can anyone tell me isn't there a quite resmeblance between the return of al-mahdi to that of the return of Ciisa! the same story!! Anyway, salaam to all for now
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| | Wednesday, January 24, 2001 - 01:08 pm Salaam, all Idea, Okay, may be I should join the camp who think you have a harsh style! Not, really. In discussion, there is no such thing as harshness. The worst thing that could happen is when you remain silent while one states what you think is wrong--not correcting him would be great injustice. So, thank you for questions. Sis, you have raised valid questions that deserved to be asked, although, honestly speaking, i'm a bit lost on how you drove those conclusions from my post. See, in your response you gave us three options, sort of multiple choose: Your response, that of your mother and that of your father, if they were to comment on the matter. Yours was to send the child some where in Somali and subject them to harsh conditions. So, I chose options b and c since they appeal to me and I don't beleive sending the child back home would solve the matter. Do I beleive rural Somalia is bad? Ummmmmm... Actually, your response seems to indicate such, but I made no such comment. So, there is no need to answer on that part of your question. The same would be true on whether I call the west home or not. I have not shared with you on my opinion on those matters so no need to comment there too. Now, I agree with you 100% on the arguments you made, with the exception of sending the child back home. Would subjecting the child on harsh conditions in rural somali teach him a lesson? I need more convincing or some sort of data in this area. I agree with you that rural Somalia is where our ancestors came from, and that it is only us who can change the whole matter...how true! Again, thank you for your questions and NO, I DON'T SENSE harshen in your post but genuine queries that deserve answering. Thanks
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| | Wednesday, January 24, 2001 - 04:35 pm The Muslim community is virtually sitting on a time bomb. Most are gleefully oblivious of it. Some wish to turn a deaf ear to the ticking that they can hear in their own homes. The time bomb in this case is the youth crisis — the Muslim teenagers and young adults who are holding back nothing to ‘live life to the fullest’. Many of these youth have grown up in front of the TV and in the laps of servants and nannies. Today, they display the values that they possess in the night clubs and other drug dens. While this scourge is not restricted to the youth, the apathy and ‘my child can never do wrong’ mentality of many parents have paved the way for numerous young people — boys and girls — to indulge in all the filth that is flooding the new South Africa. A pious recital of the million and one ills of our society is not the object here nor will it solve the problem. Besides, most of the serious common ills are common knowledge. Who does not know that many Muslim youth are fast sliding down the slope of drugs into destruction for themselves and torment and misery for those around them? Who is unaware that numerous young boys and girls are losing their chastity at university and even high schools? These and other aspects are known to most people. The problem is, again, the apathy of many parents and they ‘my child can never do wrong’ mentality. The only time they sit and take notice is when the bomb explodes. It is time to sit up and hear the ticking before it is too late to try and diffuse the bomb. Parents must recognise that they are duty-bound to give the proper guidance to their children and to exercise control over them. Have you ever taken the trouble to ensure that your son is not visiting night clubs and taking drugs on those evenings that he is not at home? Are you certain that he is just ‘having a Braai’ as he claims? Who are his ‘friends’? It is time to make sure for yourself. Some parents have already been shocked to learn that they have been deceived for a long time. Also, in the kind of environment that we have been submerged into, what steps have we taken to counter the onslaught of the forces of evil on ourselves and, particularly, our children? Is there a programme of learning and teaching Deen in our homes? Do we discuss the importance of Salaah with our children and do we practically follow it up? Do we provide authentic Islamic literature for them to read? What about daily recitation of the Qur’an and Dhikr in our homes? Have we encouraged our children to be in the gatherings of Deen, gatherings which boost one’s Imaan and generate a consciousness of the Hereafter? If we fail to guide our children in this direction, the forces of Shaitaan will have a free hand to mislead us and our children into evils that will destroy us in both worlds. The abovementioned aspects should be implemented urgently to guide our children on the straight path. However, what about those young people who have already drifted in the wrong direction? If any parent suddenly discovers that his child is caught up in some terrible vice, it will not help to condemn the child and, as it has occurred in some cases, expel him from the home. Firstly, most parents will have to accept that they are also partly responsible for the mess that their children find themselves in. Thereafter, it will require much patience, tolerance and perserverance to bring back the errant youth on the right track. Perhaps in many cases professional advice and help may be required. Most of all it will require an all out effort to regenerate the force of Imaan in the person that has deviated. Nothing else can truly keep a person away from the clutches of Shaitaan and from the temptations that beckon at every corner. The force of Imaan will be regenerated in the environments of Deen. It will be absurd to expect it to develop in an environment of music, TV, Videos and other vices. It cannot be expected to be generated in a home where there is no salaah, recitation of the Qur’an, Dhikr and the learning and teaching of Deen. We should therefore seek the correct environment for ourselves and our children when out of the home and also create the proper Deeni environment at home. The Hadith of Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Álayhi Wasallam) is clear: ‘Everyone of you is a shepherd and each one of you will be questioned about his flock.’ Let us take charge of our flock before the day of reckoning.
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| | Wednesday, January 24, 2001 - 04:46 pm Upbringing of Children - Disciplining of Children - An Islamic Perspective The subject under discussion is controversial one in the Western World. Only recently ‘experts’ in the West have suddenly re-discovered that the old-fashioned age-old method of using the cane to discipline children is the only one that really brings results. Man in the Western world is living in an age when the topsy-turvy values of Western culture have virtually reversed the role of parent and child. It is becoming increasingly difficult, almost impossible for parents to effectively discipline their children in the Western world. In most countries, a single slap to an intransigent child is deemed a criminal offense which could result in prosecution - a fine, or even a prison sentence. Children have been accorded such rights in the legal system of most Western countries, they almost dictate to parents, and parents have no option but to comply, or else face the chance of losing their children to some child welfare group, ostensibly removing them to a ‘safe’ home. The Islamic viewpoint on this matter is very clear. It is a balanced approach. On the one hand, Islam allows disciplining of children out of necessity, so that children do not go out of hand. On the other hand, such strict rules have been imposed in this matter, that does not allow any abuse of authority by the parent. In accordance with the teachings of Islam, occasions do arise when children need to be disciplined, even to the extent of employing corporal punishment. Among the ten important advises that Nabi (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) had enjoined upon his beloved companion, Hadhrat Muáaz bin Jabal (Radhiyallaahu Anhu), one of them is ‘let your rod be hanging on them (children), as a warning and to chastise against neglect of their duties towards Allah’. (Ahmad; Tabraani-Kabeer). According to this Hadith, it is evident that Muslims should not spare the proverbial ‘rod’ in checking their children from becoming reckless in doing anything they like. Sometimes, it is necessary to use the rod. It is a general observation that many parents out of a false sense of pity and sympathy for their children, neglect and turn a blind eye to this important teaching of Nabi (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam), but when their children get spoilt, they cry and complain about them, ‘To spare the rod and spoil the child’ is no kindness at all. If a child is physically ill, no amount of pain the child may experience will deter the parents from ensuring that proper medical treatment is administered to the ailing child. Yet, it is most surprising then, that the very same parents cringe at the thought of ‘disciplinary treatment’ for a child who is morally and mortally ill in terms of his behaviour. Nabi (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) has often been reported to have said, ‘Enjoin Salaah on your child when he is seven years old and beat him if he neglects it after he reaches ten years of age’. (Abu Dawood; Durr-Manthoor). Once more, the emphasis on beating a child who defaults in the important duty of offering Salaah is clearly indicated in this Hadith. Initially, it is the fear of the rod that compels a child to fulfill the taxing injunction of Salaah, then by dint of habit it becomes accustomed to offering Salaah. Not only did Nabi (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) encourage the use of the rod at the time of need, he even prayed for those parents who kept the rod hanging in the home for the purpose of maintaining discipline and admonition. He is reported to have said, ‘May Allah Taãla bless the person who keeps a lash hanging in his house for the admonition of his house folk’. (Jami Sagheer). Luqman (Alayhis Salaam), the wise, used to explain the importance of the rod in these words ‘The use of the rod on a child is as indispensable as is water for the fields’. (Durr-Manthoor). Nabi (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) advised, ‘When one of you beats anyone, he should avoid striking the face’. (Abu Dawood) Sharia Limits of beating It should be borne in mind at all times that beating is the final resort and measure that is adopted for rectifying a spoilt child. When the extreme occasion of administering this painful punitive measure does arise, it has to be carried out within the limits of Shariáh. The first and foremost rule to remember is NEVER to punish a child in the state of anger or emotion. In this state, the intellect becomes clouded and proper reasoning is impossible. Calm down completely, lie down, drink water, take a walk. Thereafter, think twice or thrice, over the gravity of the situation, the extent of mischief and misbehaviour. A suitable form of discipline should be considered thereafter. The outcome of uncontrollable rage at the time of disciplining can be disastrous. Terrible damage or harm could be done. It could leave behind a lifelong regret. As a last resort, if the child is to be beaten, never strike the face, head or any other sensitive part of the body. Never inflict wounds, weals or bruises to any part of the body. This is forbidden in Islam. If these Sharée limits are not adhered to, the parent will be guilty of Dhulm (oppression), for which a heavy price will have to be paid on the day of Qiyaamat if pardon was not obtained from the oppressed. It must also be remembered that the forgiving of a minor is not valid; only after attaining puberty will the forgiveness of a child be valid. ‘Excluding the face and sensitive parts of the body, it is allowed to beat a child for the purposes of discipline so long as the limits are not transgressed. i.e. to beat the child in a manner that a wound is inflicted, or a bone fractured or broken, or a bruise appears or an internal disorder results (to the heart or brains, etc.). If the limits are transgressed as described above in any way, even by a single stroke, such a person will be regarded as sinful’. It should be borne in mind that repeated punishment is extremely undesirable as the effect is lost and audaciousness and shamelessness set into the child. Many other methods of disciplining exist other than beating which could be employed effectively, such as denying the child certain privileges. These prove to be more effective than beating in many instances. Finally, Duá is the most effective ‘weapon’ that could be employed for the disciplining of a child. It has worked miracles for many frustrated parents and teachers.
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| | Wednesday, January 24, 2001 - 04:49 pm HOME, SWEET HOME!! 'My own feeling is that we've pushed women too far,' says Dr T Berry Brazelton, the 80-year-old Harvard University doctor who is referred to as 'America's Paediatrician', in a recent interview in The Los Angles Times. 'We've split them in two, and we have not given them back anything to support themselves on either end.' Having witnessed what forcing the women into the workforce and the breakdown of the family have done to the American children, he has a gloomy assessment of the situation. 'I just think our country is in deep, deep trouble,' he agonises. Opinion leaders of all persuasions agree. Ask America's First Lady, who considers herself a champion of women's and children's causes. In her 1996 book, It Takes a Village, Hillary Clinton offers this assessment: 'The children's potential lost to spirit-crushing poverty, children's health lost to unaffordable care, children's hearts lost in divorce and custody fights, children's futures lost in an overburdened foster care system, children's lives lost to abuse and violence, our society lost to itself as we fail our children.' That America as a nation has bungled it thoroughly is obvious from her account of the society where: 'Homicide and suicide kill almost seven thousand children every year; one in four of all children are born to unmarried mothers, many of whom are children themselves; and 135,000 children bring guns to school each day. Children in every social stratum suffer from abuse, neglect, and preventable emotional problems.' She says 'If you bungle raising your children, I don't think whatever else you do matters very much.' Welcome to the other side of 'Women's Liberation'. Today women are free in America. Free from the protection of a home and the support of a husband who would be responsible to provide for them. The women are on their own. In turn, the children have been freed from the rigidities of the normal home, where father and mother provide for them, take care of them, and guide them. The children are also on their own. To make up for the hiatus in their lives, the society has been engaged in all kinds of experiments: while parents are at work their offspring are packed off to the 'farmhouse of children' which they call 'day care'. Things have gone so wrong for so long that everyone has lost all hope that the society can retrace its steps and rectify them. Hillary Clinton admits: 'My personal wish, that every child have an intact, dependable family, will likely remain a wish.' So, her efforts are directed towards ameliorating conditions in the 'children's farmhouse' with the help of the whole village. Dr Brazelton, who knows the importance of the mother being at home with her children, says. 'I think you are giving a gift to the child when you stay home with him as long as you can.' However, he knows she cannot stay at home very long, for 'being just a mother' is not good enough any more. He is well aware of the psychological crisis faced by the stay-at-home mothers, so he pleads with everyone to do as much as they can. Now contrast this with the United Nations' edict that women in the rest of the world, especially the Muslim world, must take up all kinds of jobs outside the home; that the goal should be their total economic independence. In other words, women must be forced outside the home so they are no longer available to take care of the children within the home. They must be 'liberated' from the home, so they can enjoy the same fruits of 'emancipation' as the women are 'enjoying' in the US. The destruction of the family in America, or the West in general, was not planned. It just happened as a logical result of the materialistic, hedonistic, Godless civilisational values that have gripped these societies. But the UN decree that the rest of the world must follow the same disastrous path is something else. It is as if a person who has lost an eye to horseplay now wants everyone else to have an eye removed voluntarily! It is unconscionable that we should be answering such chicanery with apologetics of the kind that normally begin with, 'Islam also allows women to', as in, 'Islam also allows women to work outside the home'. Yes, it does in case of necessity, but that is beside the point. The reality is that Islam frees a wife from the burden to provide for the family. It is solely the husband's responsibility. In return, the wife's main responsibility is to stay at home and take care of the children. The primary field of women's endeavour is the home, sweet home. And this has to be stated without doubt or apology. The Qur'an says: 'And stay quietly in your homes.' (Al-Ahzab, 33:33) And the Prophet, (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) said: 'The wife is responsible for taking care of the home of her husband, and she will be accountable for those given in her charge.' (Bukhari, Muslim) This is also the most rewarding job that anyone can think of. The Prophet, (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam), assured the woman who stays home to take care of the children, that she would be with him in paradise. According to another Hadith, during pregnancy and the entire period of nursing, the believing mother is like a soldier on active duty. If she dies, she gets the reward reserved for a martyr. Yet another Hadith says to the women: 'Take care of the home. That is your Jihad.' (Musnad Ahmad). Thus Islam clearly establishes the basic division of labour between men and women. Men are responsible for the affairs outside the home: the women are responsible for taking care of the home. This division is not a relic of some dark past. It is the only basis on which a healthy society has ever been built, and can be built today as well. The nations that have tried to alter this natural arrangement long enough have nothing but grief and trouble to show for their efforts. And they seem to he groping in the dark, unable to undo the damage and get out of the quagmire. Is there any sane reason that those who have the light should follow them on the dark highway to disaster?
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| | Wednesday, January 24, 2001 - 08:21 pm Asalaamu alaikum... My two pennies are not here yet, but a few thank yous are. First, Anonymous, jazakallahu khairan. That was really beneficial. May Allah reward you for sharing it with us. Nur, thanks brother. Good job on the clasification part. Itis very, very close to reality. New Deal, are u sure u wanna thank me for teasing? think about this real hard brother. It is not a trick question...lol. By the way, stop being nice to idea. Tell her the truth. She is harsh...lol. She writes like ---. Now, i'm definitely gonna get toasted! On a serious note, you guys had a great discussion. Hey New Deal, have u noticed what I noticed about this brother of hours? Ofcourse no mentioning names. First it was, " I like your conversations, I could eavesdrop for hours". Now it is like, " My mom and the sisters i'm close to don't hijab..." What is it? Did you guys conspire together againsit this discussion? Ofcourse one of you got busted...it is just a matter of time with the other. Common, don't give me that "oh, I don't wanna give u a prejudiced idea..." I know you have no control of what your mom or the sisters do, but how about your "hypothetical" daughter?lol. Arawello, where are you sis? Give us your input? Salaam
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| | Wednesday, January 24, 2001 - 08:28 pm One more thing, Tauheed-Sufism, thanks for the info bro/sis. It was of great benefit to me and the others (I suppose).
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| | Wednesday, January 24, 2001 - 08:31 pm correction: brother of ours not "hours". As you can tell, i'm tired and therefore can't spell.
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| | Wednesday, January 24, 2001 - 11:10 pm My Dear sister IDEA No. I am not A SUFI, what ever that is. But if loving Allah too much, and emphasizing the importance of dhikr is known as Sufi, then I am one. No Iam not Shia but I love the Aal al Beit ( Hassan, Hussein, Ali, Fatuma, Hamzah ) No I am not Wahhaabi but I love Ibnu Taymiyah, Ibnul Qayim, Sheikh Muhammad abdul Wahaab. No I am not one who follows whims,and has illusions, I only follow the quraan and Sunnah. No, I am not offended, and I have a lot of respect for you, may you can help me with repatriation of all confused brothers and sisters to rural somalia where we can set up a rehabilitation center in a picturesque land to cleanse their minds with pure camel milk, open pastures, nice weather and a lot of Dhikr. I am sure the return of investment on such an project would be tremendous. Let me know if such an I D E A apeals to you, so we can do the feasibility study.
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| | Wednesday, January 24, 2001 - 11:18 pm New Deal Musch thanks for your spirit of understanding and openness. I share with you the subjectivity in discussions. Let us keep channel open always. TLG You mad me smile with your analyses of Sister IDEA , and I have incorporated an economic I D E A in my response to her question. But I am worried about the angels counting it as gossib, so please ask her to forgive us even if we are joking, her karaamah and that of any sister is protected by Allah, and I do not want to make one I love angry with me.
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| | Thursday, January 25, 2001 - 12:28 am New Deal Coming back to your question, There is no crystal ball for all situations. Evrey case is as unique as the person that you are dealing with. But one thing is for sure, you can never postpone the introduction of Allah to a person suffering from Ghafla or complacency. If a person is not interested in hearing about Allah, there is no more you can do. Because you can not talk about the beauty of Islam to someone who abhors the author of such a lifestyle. This topic is one of my favorite topics and I am very intersted in exploring with you strategies to propogate islam to our people, remembering that this task is the messengers task, and its reward is tantamount to theirs. But, before we embark on such a task, I propose a program I call : Train the trainer. The most effective dawa comes from individuals whose lifestyle remind you of Allah. " Ibaadur rahmaan" hence the idea I call (al Rabbania) How about opening a page for that topic?
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| | Thursday, January 25, 2001 - 03:03 am Nur, Thanks brother. May Allah forgive you and forgive your loved ones, amiin. Secondly, I don't know why everyone just started attacking me when I asked you that simple question. Everyone made me feel as if I did a crime against humanity. To tell you the truth, I have no idea why i had all this enmity; that is why i withdrew my question. I would hate to put ourselves in a sort of division where enemies of Allah who surf this net get benefits. Having said that, I have nothing against the core principle of Sufism. Maa-sha-allah it only calls for the love of Allah. Who wouldn't love that!I myself do admire one of those sufi people a lady called Rabia. She was a symbol of piety of how a great muslim woman should be in obeying her Creator. However, what I don't agree with this principle is the too much tazahud it implies. And some people leaving working and life altogether just to do dhikir. Correct me if I am wrong but didn't the prophet (pbuh) said that "al-caamalu cibdaa" ie working is equivalent to Cibada. Correct me if I am wrong but aren't we as muslims advised to work for both our "al-qira" and our "donyaa". Correct me if i am wrong but shouldn't we as muslims work for this life as if we will be living for ages and work for our aqira as if we will die tommorow. Finally, i did appreciate you taking the time to answer back. And about that project, it seems a great idea. Do you have any more inputs. I love my country and i love all my people. I honestly think that WE should be thinking for how to rebuild our country and how to get rid of all the elements of destruction. How i admire those who fought and lost their lives for our independence and how i despise the fact that we all listen to those power diggers :-(. I am notorious for getting off track, forgive me all. And yes, you are right TLG drew a funny picture of how i behave...it made me laugh too. I think she should give up being a biologist...i think she will do well as being a comedian...lol. New Deal, You have a great sense of humor. Actually, TLG didn't tease me to write here...rather you did invite me to put any input if i do have some. I bet you didn't know i could be sometimes a troublemaker...lol. Ask common..he is a good friend of FG...who calls me that i am trigger happy and i do hasty instigations..lol. I can be sometimes dangerious..but i never had ill intentions and never dreamed of making people angry..i pray from Allah that He forgives me my sins and all the sins of muslim people, Allahuma amiin. Regarding my point of the environment...all what i am saying is to appreciate something you really must have a good idea of its value and its importance. If you don't value something, probably you will think why should i keep it. When you are shaving each morning the water that is being wasted...a glass of it may save a life somewhere in some other place. To appreciate day..u must see night. To appreciate heat..you must see cold...to appreciate good you must see bad. Allah made all these differences for us to take them as cibra. In other words, if the girl in the question grew up in say some western country and instead of taking the teachings of our deen and the norms and values of our culture, adopted some foreign norms...then removing her altogether from that environment is a good idea. But if you think implementing option b or c while keeping her surrounded by an environment which is against our morals and ehtics...that is alright as long as you know how to properly mentorthe girl without you losing the figure of authority in your household. There are many many schools out there in uprising children. Each has some good points and bad ones too. And Allah knows the best. TLG, LOL, good job girl. I will know stop teasing you know who...lol Arwello, where did u disappeared sister? Common, where is FG? can you please tell him that i m missing my big brother's protection..lol Allahuma iqfeer lee maa yaqfeer al-dhanouba ila anta.
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| | Thursday, January 25, 2001 - 05:30 am Idea Inshallah i will e-mail him and let him know, i think the brother is busy with his new course, pray for him. Sister you are right actions verily are by intentions alhumdulliha you didn't have any bad intentions Love your brother in Islam
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| | Thursday, January 25, 2001 - 01:31 pm Common, Thanks my brother. I will insha-allah pray for him and for you too.
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| | Thursday, January 25, 2001 - 03:48 pm Asslaamu caleykum. This is my third visit to the net today. I am glad to see you are all doing fine Ladies and gentelmen. Idea. You are okey with me. I have no hidden impression about you that I want to keep to myself. You are cool. Did I ever get angry with you?. Not that I recall. Women don't make me angry somehow. They are not in my list of threatening beings. And I don't mean down playing them as well(This is for TLG so she doesn't come after me). Common. I am fooling myself by having visited here. I am little ahead of the assingments so far, Did my home work for monday, Did well on the Quiz today alxamdulilaah. I have few postings to write untill sunday evening inshallah then will recline to my studies. I really appreciate your concern and prayer. TLG. Somehow I feel I have nothing to say to you. I am afraid to stumble in the way. You have what they call a lot of BURJI. So, I guess my two cents will be right about what I said or rather didn't say. New deal. Brother, Keep up the good work. We need New Deals. I think you and Nur are the good examples of cool people(I can tell it doesn't matter if I mention that or not). When I am off little bit I check your posts and see I am way off. Mmay Allah encrease your patience for you guys.
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| | Thursday, January 25, 2001 - 07:40 pm Asalaamu alaikum, Idea, sister, sister, sister. No one attacked you sister. It was only a concern. I guess Common freaked out because he's seen things. I have seen things too. So, it is good to control damage before it gets out of hand. AS you said, our objective here should be frying those that think were are "their burden" and a such have a moral responsibility to protect/liberate us and others from the "tyranny" of Islam. But I knew what you meant. You didn't understand why people freaked out. So, i'm just bringing this up so that there is no confusion. Since you write like---- people might misunderstand your words. And yes, its about time u stopped teasing you know who. After all, I think they were right. Nur, jazakallahu khairan brother. And you are right about the joke thing. I tend to make a joke out of everything, which works. But I tend to get carried away sometimes. So, thank you for the reminder. Our sister here who is sooo merciful has already forgiven us. May allah forgive her too and set all her affairs right. FG, the "ever unpredictable FG", what is BURJI again? This might supprise you but I wrote a message to you and Anon ( which I deleted after a bit of thinking)in this folder last night. Now that i know women don't make you angry, hmmm... By the way, you are the one person I wouldn't come after. After all, you are the chief. salaam.
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| | Thursday, January 25, 2001 - 10:44 pm My Dear sister " laa tathreeba calaykal yowm, yaghfirullahu lakum" You said "". Correct me if i am wrong but shouldn't we as muslims work for this life as if we will be living for ages and work for our aqira as if we will die tommorow" Dear Sister, This Hadeeth is very popular, but it is " Mowduu" meaning fake. Look into Sheikh Albani's works or ask any Muhaddith in your local mosque. A pious man, however corrected that hadeeth with common sense and said " This hadeeth in order to be true, it should read like this to make sense" "Work for your worldly needs with an effort equivalent to its duration. ...And work for your hereafter with an effort equivalent to its duration" That much said, I am only emphasizing the importance of living up to our place in the universe. Nect only to Allah, when we worship right, and lower than animals when we fail our purpose for which we were created. We, human's have been elevated the highest above all creatures, because we have one job. We worship Allah. I agree with you that worship has wide and encompassing meaning, and you mentioned that work is a form of worship, yes, with the right intention,Niya and Ihtisaab. (accounting) I am a businessman and I trade, When I work, I continuosly keep thikr in my tongue, money is in my hands not in my heart, my heart is home for the love of Allah, and you wouldn't believe how much pleasure I feel. As for the repatriation issue, I have a lot of thoughts, I will come back later, Till then, sister, please pray for me.
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| | Thursday, January 25, 2001 - 10:59 pm TLG. Can't wait to see what you deleted. You awakened my curiosity Sis. I am sitting here trying to guess what was that "would-be-written-message" all about. Together with Anon???. Waw, that is even more serious than I ever thought. I can't help but wonder. Be kind and write it sis so I know what it was that you deleted. Can't leave the forumss having a guilty feeling. Will you please stop this chief stuff?. It makes me paranoid.
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| | Friday, January 26, 2001 - 12:43 am FG welcome back. Allhumdilliah you sound like a very dedicated student, i could tell from your personality that you were a no nonsense kind of guy though, manshallah.. as MM would say Knock em dead.lol. May Allah (swt) forgive you... and man you are the Chief in North America that is ( in england a chief is not a good thing!...long story!)
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| | Friday, January 26, 2001 - 02:53 am Idea you wrote " However, what I don't agree with this principle is the too much tazahud it implies. And some people leaving working and life altogether just to do dhikir" Sister. My idea of dhikir is quite the opposite than those you mentioned , here is how I reason. It is a jungle out there, so, when I wake up in the morning, I think of protection of all evil for that day by saying my dhikir, it is my insurance policy. I also need to succeed in my business, so I do not rely on myself alone, to succeed, because, I tried that before and I lost big time. So now, I make dhikir to seek Allah's rizq and fadl like the birds. Secondly , there is this enemy of mine, who never gives up on his attempts to mislead me, he comes from the right, left, in front of me and behind me, with one mission, that I forget to make shukur to Allah. The only weopon I have, or the castle behind which I protect my peoperty is Dhikir. As a human, I am prone to sin, I need to seek forgiveness immediately before the time expires, and I find myself in an unlit hole and a journey that I am ill prepared for. So I ask Allah not make my guidance in my hands, even for a wink of an eye. Dhikir, softens my heart, without Dhikir my heart becomes tougher than mountains, and mountains as you know, would crack, if Quraan was revealed on them, but our human heart is more rigid than rocks, Dhikir helps soften our hearts. Have you asked yourself when was the last time you cried for fear, or love of Allah? Dhikir makes me kind to other people, respect them, before I criticize, I place my self in their situation, thereby becoming more understanding. Dhikir makes me see my own mistakes, more, while I see other peoples mistakes less. Dhikir, makes me homesick for Jannah, where I can meet Prophet Muhammad SAWS whom I have seen twice in my dreams, at one time, I hugged him, so tightly. It was my best dream ever. I also hope to meet, all the righteous people mentioned in Quraan, and Abubakar, Omar, Othman and Ali. The Prophet SAWS said " a person will be with those he loved in the hereafter" Lastly, Dhikir focuses me, on my duties, toward my family and my job, fairness when dealing with others, hardwork to earn rizq, spend it right, and help those less fortunate than I am, makes me enjoy my prayer, sunnah, sadaqa, zakaat, reading Quraan. In short, Without Dhikir, I can not succeed in anything. I never take anything for granted. It has been reported that the prophet SAWS has said that " He whose preoccupation is worldly good, Allah puts his matters in disarray, puts the fear of poverty in front of his eyes, and he does not gain except that which has been predestined. " He whose preoccupation is Akhirah, Allah organizes his matters to be highly manageble, puts wealth in front of his eyes and made worldly goods seek him" In another hadeeth " He whose worry is only aakhira, Allah, suffices ( alleviates from him) the worries of this world" ( by coming to his aide, or by minimizing it in comparison with the problems of the day of judgement). This is how I view things when I talk about dhikir, (and I hope that you do not label me as a reformed SUFI)....... just joking. Would you like your first prescription of dhikir to see its effect on your life? TLG please excuse me for drifting away from the posted topic. Dhikir should have its own forums,....................... The Sunnah way.
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| | Friday, January 26, 2001 - 05:33 am Nur, Thanks my brother for that long post. I have greatly enjoyed it, maa-shaa-allah. May Allah bless you and increase you in wisdom. Secondly, what i was referring to was not that you mention the name of Allah in every step you take,I do the same, alhamduliaah. I remember when i used to finish my classes on late cold nights and on my way to the parking lot, just saying subhan-allah...alhamdulilaah..laaa illah ila allaah...just made me feel warm and safe. A feeling that you have no idea how happy it made me. Thirdly, the dhikir type that i was talking about is when some people who just stay in masjids worshiping Allah and depend on others for food, cloth...believe it or not that kind of people do exist. And, the funniest sort of people that i have seen are those who call themselves Daaraweesh. Those people where i grew up (in a muslim country somewhere in Middle East) they commercialized dhikir!!! ie some might come and say Allah akbar..Allah akbar...etc and in return expect money!!! Finally, regarding the hadith that you mentioned as being fake i remember taking it in school. And usually those ahadith books that we as students used to learn were being edited by a cooperation between the ministery of education and al-azhar al-shareef. But if you see that al-bani said it was fake...then Allah subhanahu waa tacala knows the best. Laa cilm lee ilaa fee maa arad Allahu aan yaa kouna lee feehi cilm. FG, Welcome back brother. Hope everything is cool my cool brother. BTW, please don't ask TLG to re-write what she deleted, she has the capability of awakening a major Fitna sometimes...lol TLG, I have no idea who u think i m teasing here. But let me tell you something..."don't go exploring the space alot" ;-) And debating with anon made me stubborn too. Young lady me not take orders...lol
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| | Friday, January 26, 2001 - 08:03 am TLG and IDEA, you guys are accusing each other. each one of you is saying the other is the fitna makers.
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| | Friday, January 26, 2001 - 11:57 am Asalaamu alaikum, FG, i'm sorry bro. While reading your last post I couldn't help but envision you turning and tossing wondering, what the heck is this mischevious girl upto? (ofcourse knowing that you have all the time in the world to worry about things like that) :-) Ok, to ease your guilt, no more chief stuff from me, eventhough I sense much support for the title (right Common?) Anyway, what was that "deleted message"? I just teased you guys into writing something in this folder. That was all. Nothing mischevious. Now, would u like to tell me what BURJI is? By the way, i'm a lil jelous. Idea was adorned with all these qualitites such as coolness and you not having any hidden impression of her. Meanwhile, I was just left plain. Hmmm. Anway, it is good u keep to yourself whatever impressions you have about me. The only thing I'll ask for is u ask Allah to give me the wisdom to lose the bad ones and the courage to keep the good ones. Please don't start apoligising. You the coolest person in here remember! And i'm sure many wouldn't mind (except for Galool and Mad ofcourse)if they made many clones of you (if cloning is permissible ofcourse). :-) Ahmed J, don't worry bro, we both have abit of "the making fitnah" syndrome. Nur, no worries brother. We all drift frm the topic every now and then. It is ok. I'm sure we all benefit from what the "drifters" write. Idea, sister, you confuse me. You know how slow I am at times. Ok, when u said, you will stop teasing you know who, I thought you were refering to the person who said you are harsh and write like -----. And then I said to you, I think you should stop teasing them coz I think they are writing. So, basically I agreed with the person Common and New Deal a lil sisterly smiles your way.
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| | Friday, January 26, 2001 - 03:14 pm TLG. Assalaamu caleykum. I don't think you are mischievous in the literal sense of the word. The lack of any hidden impression about Idea in me is the negative one. I wouldn't hide it if there was one. It was also to ease her mind after I read her post to New Deal. See, I thought she supposed I judged her. Women are a little sensitive about that. Idea can relax and know she is cool. I have an advice for her though and will e-mail it to her in private. Her e-mail is somewhere in this forums. I made a point to remember that for my future reference in case I needed. You never know. Now, for your part, Would you stop guessing like Idea Did?. I have non to be Exact. I don't expect one to be perfect in every sense OF COURSE. They say: "Perfection is of Devine attribute". So, No human can have perfection. We have more or less degree of imperfections in ourselves. As far as I am concerned, I saw nothing wrong with you, and honestly would let you know if I had known any. I like scoring points against you. I am curiously watching. May be that isn't a good idea is it???. Please don't stop visiting the forumss lol. I AM BLUFFING. The word "Burji". I wish I didn't say it for its liability to many applications. Here is what it means: Burji= An imaginary mythical power someone would have on others. That is enough praise to kill the doubts in your mind. Take my explanation of the Word and exchange it WITH THE WORD in my earlier post to you as one would do to the variable "X" when the result is found. See it for yourself. Okey, Let us hope it doesn't neccesitate DEMONSTRATIONS as of WHY I USED THAT WORD IN YOUR ADDRESS. ALRIGHT, That does it for me. I am back to work and wassalaamu caleykum.
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| | Friday, January 26, 2001 - 04:00 pm Ahmad J, lol, don't you know it is a major mistake to interfere between two sisters!! TLG, So, you are confused...lol. Join my mum's club. FG, <smile>
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| | Saturday, January 27, 2001 - 09:28 am You guys must have been doing alot of writings. I could not even read all of these. I have to say this is a saved chatline lol. keep going. and will be back in few months Insah Allah.
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| | Monday, January 29, 2001 - 06:31 pm Asalaamu alaikum, Arawello, you are dispearing for months??? Why sis? FG, Brother, I was afraid to write in this folder for sometime since you " like scoring points against me and are curiously watching". Seriously, thanks for your kind comments. I thought BURJI was an English word! I was busy looking for it in the dictionary!lol Ok, on the "rebelious" teenage muslimah and hijaab issue, I think I would do a combination of what most of you guys said above except for Idea's Somalia one (sorry Idea). Idea sis, it is not that I despise Rural Somalia. I'm from a rural part of an African country myself( as you already know..lol) but it is becuase I've heard of cases where girl's who "misbehaved" were sent back to Africa( in the case I heard it was Djibuti) and they found their way back to the West with the help of non-Mulsim organizations! Anyway, in addition to the above suggestions from others, I would opt for a more fundamental solution. And that is to say we should build our households according to Islamic principles from the get go. If we set things straight from the begining, life will be a little better I believe. Now, some will say they know of kids who have pious Muslim parents that have turned wild for reasons they can't explain. Well, I would argue that there must be something wrong at home. May be there is some sort of contradiction in implementing Islam. We can't tell our kids not to lie and when a friends calls "wave" our hands in the air -indicating our absense-since we don't want to speak with that person. A lot of Somali parents do this. Yes, even the "practising" ones. It is amazing the kinda things kids pick up. So, my point is, make sure the foundation is strong before erecting the building. We should also plant the love and conscienceness (or fear) of Allah in our kids from the start. That way, they will know that if u are not watching, then Allah is watching. They can cheat you but not Allah. And so, kids won't wear hijab (or do any other act) only in the presence of the parents but put(the hijab) in their bags as soon as they are dropped off at the school gate. Everything else I would have done has already been mentioned by New Deal, Idea and Nur. Interms of forcing them, I would personally opt for the lesser of two evil thing that New Deal described above. If forcing her to wear hijab would result in her leaving the house and seeking comfort from other parties, then I won't do it. I guess that is my two cents. Ofcourse like New Deal said, only Allah (SWT) knows what I would do once I have children. But that is what I would like to do insha Allah, if I was confronted with such a situation. salaam.
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| | Monday, January 29, 2001 - 07:29 pm TLG Thanks Basics first. If the root is dry, leaves will not be green. Jazaakallah
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| | Tuesday, January 30, 2001 - 01:22 am TLG, "OK, on the "rebelious" teenage muslimah and hijaab issue, I think I would do a combination of what most of you guys said above except for Idea's Somalia one (sorry Idea)" Don't be sorry for saying what you believe in. As i won't feel obliged to compromise my ideas for anyone's sake. What i think is right...i will say it. "Idea sis, It is not that i despise Rural Somalia. I'm from a rural part of an African country myself(as you already know...lol)" Really, I didn't know but i am glad you told me that :-) "...but because i have heard of cases where girls who "misbehaved" are sent back to Africa (in the case I heard it was Djibuti) and they found their way back to the West with the help of non-muslim organnizations" Well, what i have heard was families, who had rebellious teens of both genders, seeking refugee in our MOTHERLAND and that the parents of those teens thanking Allah for guiding them to that right path.
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| | Tuesday, January 30, 2001 - 04:58 am It's amazing how a topic about garments and covering can flactuiate to sufism and most strangely the one who suggested that woman are created for man. If that's not out of line or blasphemy I don't know what is. They say a leopard never changes his spots. Page after page I see the same characters slinging mud while others are the eager retrievers. Anyway let me not step out of line and convey my comments to the topic in hand. As in all things in the Islamic circle it's always beneficial to the individual, and Hijab is no different. It protects the woman in different stages of her life: eg- when young and her body is at it's peak it protects her from varying eyes and gazes, why, because in a perfect world that body should be admired by none other than the man who is fortune enough to be her spouse. She is not public property as the Western mentality projects. In almost every ad their is a naked woman, their was a add in newsweek with a BMW and it had a PYT(pretty young thing) in bikini and gues what it said. They wrote a message in her bikini asking " take it for a test drive and u will ask her to "Be my Wife" in other words BMW. By having a society that conceals the feauters of the female I am sure their won't be a place for such cheap remarks. Anyway the woman is protected from young to her twilight years when her body is answering to mother nature and aging gracefully. Till then fii amaani Laah.
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| | Tuesday, January 30, 2001 - 07:40 am Asalaamu alaikum, Nur, thanks for your feedback. Idea, I had to double check that u wrote the above post that contains mutilated parts of my response. For a second I thought it was ANON. No comment...lol. Babilion, thanks for your input. We have weired ways of drifting from the topic at hand but it's all good. We benefit from all that is writen. Atleast I do. Please share with us more.
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| | Tuesday, January 30, 2001 - 07:46 am Ooops...sorry Babilon. I unintentionally mis-spelled your username.
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| | Tuesday, January 30, 2001 - 08:38 am "Idea, I had to double check that u wrote the above post that contains mutilated parts of my response. For a second I thought it was ANON." i do not mutilate (dissect) nor sew up (stitch) words; i just diagnose (spot) things in people's words. then, i let them eat their own words or i make them taste their own medicine (pills). ;-)
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| | Tuesday, January 30, 2001 - 10:22 am That's ok TLG, better to miss-spell a name than to drift from a whole topic, by the way what does ur initials stand for? I was wondering if it's a long username or some kind of a quotation, since we are in the dressing mode do u mind if u dress TLG for us. Perhaps most of ur peers know it but new comers to this discussion like myself are left scratching their head, hmmm TLG does it stand for Talent Larger (than) Guys or something. Anyway coming back to the topic, u said we have weird ways of drifting from the topic in hand. Maybe that's the million dollar misery. Why do we have to drift from the topic in question. If the topic is cats do we have to talk about cheetahs cause they belong to the same family, I guess not. But, and it's a big but that's what exactly happens in our day-to-day dealings. That's why Somalian's can't solve most of the basic needs back home. Seems I'm drifting to other avenues, so before I hit myself with the double edge sword let me not stray any further. If any of u can obtain the cassettes of Amina Selem, please do so. The lady talks about in depth about this topic and the pollysided topics that a Muslim specially a Muslim lady in the West encounters. She was a Professor earning more than 80,000 annually and after converting to Islam called it curtains to what she called her material world, and devoted her time and energy in her family and preserving her new found treasure. That's the exact word (treasure) she uses when she is referring to Islam. Those who claim to be preachers of freedom are sadly slaves to their low desires. That's why everything naked is considered 'cool' and the rest as 'nerds'. U turn on telly and all u see is nudity, even the news find a way to address that topic. Clinton to them was a bonus cause he brought sexuality to the NEWS circle, that's why they can't get enough of him. Singers actors and so called stars sell their soul and body just to make it to the six o'clock head line. Revealing once body is becoming more like a religion ritual. The other day I saw an article talking about the new residents of Minnesota and when they went into the night life section they focused on what jobs the newly residents were taking and to my amazement or rather shock and horror one of the jobs they mention was the strip tease clubs, and tragically Somali girls work in some of them not as bar tenders but rather as lab dancing sensations. We wouldn't be surprised if this was prediction of the future 'cause of the kind of society we live under, as they say in our mother tongue "dariskaaga diintiisu kuu yelaa" but this is happening in 2001. It's common to c young teens and frankly some adults mostly guys piercing their body. Earings is nothing 'cause the tongue and nostrils are claiming more victims. In order to cure the leaves a Dendrologist has to tend to the roots and cure them first. Ours is a society that's going down the drain, though it's pleasing to see a portion of the population still concern about faith and future, but the majority are cueing for a one way ticket to hell on earth and Allah(SWT) only knows what's in store for the here after. Till then fii amaani Laah.
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| | Tuesday, January 30, 2001 - 10:46 am TLG, Moi...ANON!!! Have Mercy...i thought you were kindhearted...lol ANON, abti sorry but as someone once said...you have your own rank...lol
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| | Tuesday, January 30, 2001 - 12:05 pm idea--people say and point fingers while ignoring themselves, but people will get their own medicine (pills). sometimes it's hard for them to swallow their own medicine (bills), though. i guess they find the bills bitter. ;-)
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| | Tuesday, January 30, 2001 - 08:33 pm Babilon Thanks for your piece, your thoughts are deep, and you should contribute more, I kept reading, and I was disappinted that it ended. I could not have agreed with you more on most of your observations. It shows there is a silent majority out there,like certain medicines, they need some shaking to activate. And a somali girl working as a stripper, is a shaking news. Look how far we left Siratul mustaqeem, and what is in store is more frightening if sit idle and watch. Babilon, some people, make things happen, some watch things happen, and some wonder what happened. On this board, most of us belong to the middle category, it is at least refreshing to add yet one more to this group. What remains to be done is taking part in changing this situation as much as we can, and that is our task as is I understand. Mahadsanid Saaxiib.
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| | Wednesday, January 31, 2001 - 05:40 am Jazaaka Laahu kheyr, Praise be to Allah(SWT) who made us what we are. Though it's disheartening to dwell on the short comings of our people but it's a must and a obligation to address the issue no matter how bitter the experience is. The foundation of Islam is first to rectify the heart. The limps and actions will follow suite. Don't forget it took thirteen years just to convey Towheed. Today our heart is filled with the love of DUNYA, accumulate as much as u can. One of the jokes that amazes me most is "the one who dies with the most toys is the happiest". Flash cars, flash awesome house, speed boat, holiday house, private jets and strangely their is a company in Texas that dumps the remains of ur loved ones ashes in space, the price 5000 uncle sum currency.And that's what their mentality is based on, get as much as u can while u can. and as u well know the love of DUNYA is the root of all evil. I don't blame most of the youngsters who are trotting around the Manhattan streets of this country and around the Western world resampling the kuffars they live with. It's not their fault that they dress, eat, mate, and perhaps someday worship like their hosts. They didn't come here by choice. It's like telling a child to swim in the deep seas and don't get wet. Islam thrived cause of one decision that Our beloved Prophet(SAW) made with the guidance of his Creator Allah(SWT). And that decision is the HIJRA. When oppressed and trashed and mistreated in their own back yard, the Prophet(SAW) ordered his companions to migrate first to Abyssinia and then to Medina. And that massive migeration to Medina is what marks the beginning of our calendar. In other words the BIRTH of Islam. Quite a turn of events. The first Muslims were saved by a Christian King, Negus. Today the Muslims are preyed on by not Christians but by people who worship this material world. It's hard to say their is a pious Christian today or ehlul Kitab, 'cause they believe in the 'three'. By aspiring and building our life's and dreams on this soil we have a ticket to one destiny. When can a true Muslim choose to live in a land inhabited by kafir, when his faith is not treated as alien. Skim reading in most of ur postings I found they had one thing in common, and that was, u all felt alien or more like an out cast when u chose to display ur attire. I assume most of the postings are done by young adults, who are on the verge of parenthood or maybe are, but the question is if u feel this way at this time of the century, at this stage of your life, how will your offsprings or their offsprings feel down the road. Aren't u neglecting their chance of having a fair and decent start in life, just as u were fortune enough to be born or bread in a Islamic or Islamic friendly environment. Where the lady in the street would scold u just like ur mum would do in your own house. Society is the great centre of enlightenment. It's where veiws take shape, where u jot down the rules that willplay a mojr part in ur later stages of your life. What surrounds u will affect u one way or another. Today's kids take the TV as a parent and a teacher while the mum is more like a maid in the Kitchen and where is dad, maybe playing some card game in a smoky bar gossiping about how he fooled the authority and he gets benefit as a divorced man and his wife is collecting benefits as a sole parent or what tripe is calling the shots back home, or if his lucky standing in front of Sheraton as a security guard. Aren't the seeds of destruction sowed in such a early stage of the kid of those parents. By sucking up to this notion of consuming and indulging in this material world your planting your seeds in a desert. I called it a "desert" cause it's deprived of Imaaan, Yaqiin, Ihsan and Taqwa, all those are the keys to a successfull life in here and the here after with the mercy of Allah(SWT). This so called developed countries have taller buildings but narrow and shallow morales, and faith is more like an alien word in their dictionary. Their bible is the stock market, their dream to pay of the mortgage their destiny to live in a Bermuda resort, and yes!! due to old age, use Viagra to appease their animal and low desires. Well to all u good folks out there make the decision or plans to safe yourself and ur offsprings from that destiny. U wouldn't worry about the attire of ur child and of yourself when the adhan for fajr wakes u up before sunrise, think about it, when was the last time u heard the soothing call of a mu'adin. Till then fii amaani Laah
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| | Wednesday, January 31, 2001 - 06:50 am Salaam All, Nur (Hey all, here is a major drift from the topic at hand. Being a Somali, I feel like I have to do one major drift, and no sister TLG you don’t have to forgive me … I sort of already forgive myself!) Anyways, Nur, you have pointed out in your last writing one of the fundamental problems that is facing our generation, that of doing nothing. I yet have to meet a member of this generation who doesn’t see what is wrong. This is the case with my circle of friends who, one can argue, are sample of the Somali society—for they are from all walks of life. Look at us here, you and I and many of our friends here! We all seem to see the wounds and light at the end of tunnel yet we are not crawling to that end! So, I wasn’t shocked when I read how you typified people into three classes: those who make things happen, those who watch things happen, and those who say what happened. I found it ironic though that we fell into the middle type, how horrific and unfortunate! I have asked my close friends, during the course of many conversations, why we are not making things happen if we see what is wrong or went wrong? To my surprise, those conversations usually end up being a mere discussion and academic dialogue. Now I’m at the point where I’m getting tired of the mere discussion of matters and wondering how to change the course of our wheel. I sort of feel that we must start a dialogue in that direction: how to address the task of our generation. Since I already drifted, in a major way (big time), from the topic of at hand, I thought we should create a new folder for that dialogue—may be I would learn one or two things from such conversation.
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| | Wednesday, January 31, 2001 - 06:57 am It's me again, I just wanted to say that I'm actually creating a folder under the name "Task of a New Generation" so tht we may continue discussing the matter. sorry again for drifting. Big Time Drifter
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| | Thursday, February 01, 2001 - 01:45 pm Asalaamu alaikum... Babilon, TLG=Truantlabgirl. Since I have the feeling your next question might be what it means, i'll save u a post.lol When I first found out about this site, this past summer(I started with those Godforsaken chat rooms and didn't discover the forums til november), I was working in a research laboratory. When I was asked to type in a username, I couldn't think of one and looked around the room. Every item in the room had Truentlab ( Truent being the name of the priniciple investigator) written on it. Even the garbage cans. So I picked this as a username (I kinda mis-spelled his name on purpose) and added the girl part. There you go. As you can see, it has nothing to do with Talent.lol Idea, a wise man or woman for that matter, once said to me not to mention some people's names in here. They will decorate the page with "cuts", "pastes" and "smiles". I shouldda listened!  Big time drifter, You are forgiven, although I doubt you need anyone's forgiveness since you already forgave yourself.
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| | Thursday, February 01, 2001 - 01:48 pm woow, I wrote a clourful article up there!
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| | Thursday, February 01, 2001 - 02:26 pm "Idea, a wise man or woman for that matter, once said to me not to mention some people's names in here. They will decorate the page with "cuts", "pastes" and "smiles". I shouldda listened!" you do not mean-----they would let you eat your own *decorations* which taste bitter? ;-) "woow, I wrote a clourful article up there!" nice decorations. ;-)
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| | Thursday, February 01, 2001 - 03:06 pm ANON, So, which one you prefer: bills or pills? TLG, Can you tell that brother of yours that attacking a person between the lines is not so smart? If he had the enough courage, he should speak up and address the person or rest in peace! New Deal, I guess brother you are not the only one who is to be blamed from drifting from the topic. Hope TLG forgives us both :-)
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| | Thursday, February 01, 2001 - 03:43 pm "ANON, So, which one you prefer: bills or pills?" i take it as well as dish it out. but i prefer to give people their own statement back. ;-) "TLG, Can you tell that brother of yours that attacking a person between the lines is not so smart? If he had the enough courage, he should speak up and address the person or rest in peace!" but she herself was afraid to address people directly and she can not help to rest in peace. ;-) i mean, she said "a wise man or woman for that matter, once said to me not to mention some people's names in here. They will decorate the page with "cuts", "pastes" and "smiles". I shouldda listened!". so, i agree that she should have listened that wise man or woman? ;-)
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| | Thursday, February 01, 2001 - 11:50 pm ANON, why are you using my statement?In case you haven't noticed that that statement is my statement not TLG's statement so since i know you prefer *to give back people their own statements* do you as well *steal* other peoples' statements in replying to others statements!
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| | Friday, February 02, 2001 - 06:27 am "ANON, why are you using my statement?In case you haven't noticed that that statement is my statement not TLG's statement" i think tlg know why i'm using your statement. she once told you that i was using her statement against you, remember and begged you to give up, because she didn't want you to suffer, remember? ;-) "so since i know you prefer *to give back people their own statements* do you as well *steal* other peoples' statements in replying to others statements!" i don't steal; i return the favor. if you do not want to give it up (as your friend adviced you) it is good that you not get mad (suffer); just get even if you can. ;-)
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| | Friday, February 02, 2001 - 08:33 am Ya Rasoul! Idea and TGL Take it from someone who knows, leave that whole area of anon alone. There lies no Kharir in it Ja zaku allahu kahir sisters
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| | Friday, February 02, 2001 - 10:14 am Hi Can someone tell me what the passiment is for, not wearing a vail and dressing in pants. Altough that person is not wearing anything reveling. the person is ME
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| | Friday, February 02, 2001 - 10:18 am Hi Can someone tell me what the punishment is for, not wearing a vail and dressing in pants. Although that person is not wearing anything reveling. the person is ME
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| | Friday, February 02, 2001 - 01:25 pm "Ya Rasoul!" Ya Alllah. "Idea and TGL Take it from someone who knows" do you mean take it from someone who learned. ;-). did you say you used to get nightmares? ;-) "leave that whole area of anon alone." i think they adviced each other to leave me alone, or else there will be *suffering*, but somehow they can not do that. ;-) "There lies no Kharir in it" lol----->kharir. ;-)
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| | Saturday, February 03, 2001 - 05:32 am TGL and Idea. Lol see what you gone did?, you all got me in trouble. Anon Yes brother, perhaps it was better explained by you, learned, knightmares etc etc. However you wish, it amounts to the same thing. ja zaku allahu Khhair
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| | Saturday, February 03, 2001 - 05:51 am "Anon Yes brother, perhaps it was better explained by you, learned, knightmares etc etc." i just give people what they ask for-----taste of their own medicine. i don't get people into trouble; they do things to themselves. ;-) "However you wish, it amounts to the same thing." i don't wish for you any bad things, but you know what is good for you. sometimes people get involve something that is not in their best interest (no Khayr in it) and they later regret it, but if you keep doing what is not good for you, you have not learned anything, right? the devil made me do it or people made it is not going to get you off the hook no matter how much you wish it to be the case. ;-) btw, common, since i'm in the business of point out things, let me point out something to you. why did you exclaim *Ya Rasuul*? the better exclaiming which has too much khayr in it is the exclaiming of *Ya Allah.* ;-). i know many people who exclaim when something happens to them and say Ya Rasul, Ya sheik abdulkaqiroow, instead of Ya Allah.
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| | Saturday, February 03, 2001 - 09:38 am Asalaamu alaikum Fardusa, here is what the scholars say about wearing pants. The next post will address the question you had about the veil. "Praise be to Allaah. Shaykh ‘Abd-Allaah ibn ‘Abd al-Rahmaan al-Jibreen (may Allaah preserve him) was asked about the ruling on women wearing jeans. He replied: “As for women wearing pants or trousers, this is not permitted, even if she is on her own or in front of other women or her husband, except if she is in a closed room with her husband only. Apart from that, it is not permitted because it shows the details of her body and makes her get used to these clothes. So she is not permitted to wear these clothes at all.” (al-Nukhbah min al-Fataawaa al-Nisaa’iyyah, p. 30). Shaykh Muhammad ibn Saalih ibn ‘Uthaymeen was also asked about the ruling on women wearing any kind of pants or trousers. He (may Allaah preserve him) answered: “I think that women should not wear trousers at all, even if there is no one with her apart from her husband, because this is imitating men. The ones who wear trousers are men, and the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) cursed women who imitate men.” (Majmoo’ Fataawaa wa Rasaa’il al-Shaykh Muhammad ibn Saalih al-‘Uthaymeen, part 12, p. 287). THIS IS A FRAGMENT OF THE REQUIREMENTS OF HIJAB POSTED ON WWW.ISLAM-QA.COM. (It should not resemble the clothing of men) It was reported in the saheeh ahaadeeth that a woman who imitates men in dress or in other ways is cursed. There follow some of the ahaadeeth that we know: Abu Hurayrah said: “The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) cursed the man who wears women’s clothes, and the woman who wears men’s clothes.” ‘Abd-Allaah ibn ‘Amr said: I heard the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) say: ‘They are not part of us, the women who imitate men and the men who imitate women.’” Ibn ‘Abbaas said: “The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) cursed effeminate men and masculine women. He said, ‘Throw them out of your houses.’” He said: “The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) expelled So and so, and ‘Umar expelled So and so.” According to another version: “The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) cursed men who imitate women and women who imitate men.” ‘Abd-Allaah ibn ‘Amr said: “The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: ‘There are three who will not enter Paradise and Allaah will not even look at them on the Day of Resurrection: one who disobeys his parents, a woman who imitates men, and the duyooth (cuckold, weak man who feels no jealousy over his womenfolk).” Ibn Abi Maleekah – whose name was ‘Abd-Allaah ibn ‘Ubayd-Allaah – said: “It was said to ‘Aa’ishah (may Allaah be pleased with her), ‘What if a woman wears (men’s) sandals?’ She said: ‘The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) cursed women who act like men.’” These ahaadeeth clearly indicate that it is forbidden for women to imitate men and vice versa, This usually includes dress and other matters, apart from the first hadeeth quoted above, which refers to dress only. Abu Dawood said, in Masaa’il al-Imaam Ahmad (p. 261): “I heard Ahmad being asked about a man who dresses his slave woman in a tunic. He said, ‘Do not clothe her in men’s garments, do not make her look like a man.” Abu Dawood said: “I said to Ahmad, Can he give her bachelor sandals to wear? He said, No, unless she wears them to do wudoo’. I said, What about for beauty? He said, No. I said, Can he cut her hair short? He said, No." Source: www.islam-qa.com
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| | Saturday, February 03, 2001 - 09:57 am Asalaamu alaikum Fardusa, here is a similar question that was asked on www.islam-qa.com. I hope it answers your question on the punishment for not wearing the veil. If you have questions concerning this post, you can address them to the Sheikhs through the same website. Go to the "submit a question" section. I hope this helps. salaam. Question: If a girl doesn't wear hijab, does that mean she will go to hell? But what if she reads Salat, Quran regualrly, acts decently, doesn't look at boys, doesn't gossip/babckbite etc, will not wearing hijab condem her to hell despite all her good attributes? Answer: Praise be to Allaah. First of all it is essential to know that Muslim men and Muslim women are obliged to follow the commands of Allaah and His Messenger, no matter how difficult that may be for people and without feeling shy of other people. The believer who is sincere in his faith is the one who is sincere in carrying his duty towards his Lord and obeying His commands and avoiding that which He has forbidden. No believer, man or woman, has the right to hesitate or delay with regard to commands; rather he or she should hear and obey immediately, in accordance with words of Allaah (interpretation of the meaning): “It is not for a believer, man or woman, when Allaah and His Messenger have decreed a matter that they should have any option in their decision” [al-Ahzaab33:36] This is the case with the believers who are praised by their Lord in the aayah (interpretation of the meaning): “The only saying of the faithful believers, when they are called to Allaah (His Words, the Qur’aan) and His Messenger, to judge between them, is that they say: “We hear and we obey.” And such are the successful (who will live forever in Paradise). And whosoever obeys Allaah and His Messenger , fears Allaah, and keeps his duty (to Him), such are the successful” [al-Noor 24:51-52] Moreover, the Muslim should not look at how small or great the sin is, rather he should look at the greatness and might of the One Whom he is disobeying, for He is the Most Great, the Most High; He is Mighty instrength and Severe in punishment, and His punishment is severe and painful and humiliating. If He exacts vengeance on those who disobey Him, then utter destruction will be their fate. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “Such is the Seizure of your Lord when He seizes the (population of) towns while they are doing wrong. Verily, His Seizure is painful (and) severe. Indeed in that (there) is a sure lesson for those who fear the torment of theHereafter. That is a Day whereon mankind will be gathered together, and that is a Day when all (the dwellers of the heavens and the earth) will be present” [Hood 11:102-103] A sin may appear insignificant in the eyes of a person when before Allaah it is serious, as Allah says (interpretation of the meaning): “you counted it a little thing, while with Allaah it was very great” [al-Noor 24:15] This matter is as some of the scholars said: “Do not look at the smallness of the sin, rather look at the One Whom you are disobeying.” We have to obey Allaah and do as He commands. We must remember that He is watching in secret and in public, and avoid that which He has forbidden. With regard to belief, if a Muslim who prays commits some sins or bad deeds, he is still a Muslim so long as he does not commit any action which would put him beyond the pale of Islam or do any of the things which nullify Islam. This sinful Muslim will be subject to the will of Allaah in the Hereafter; if He wills He will punish him, and if He wills He will forgive him. If he enters Hell in the hereafter, he will not abide there forever. But no person can be certain as to his fate, as to whether the punishment will befall him or not, because this matter is known only to Allaah. Sins are divided into two categories, minor and major. Minor sins may be expiated for by prayer, fasting and righteous deeds. Major sins (which are those concerning which a specific warning has been narrated, or for which there is a specific hadd punishment in this world or torment in the Hereafter) cannot be expiated for by righteous deeds. Rather the one who commits such sins has to repent sincerely from them. Whoever repents, Allaah will accept his repentance. There are many kinds of major sins such as lying, zinaa, riba (usury/interest), stealing, not wearing hijaab at all, and so on. Based on the above, we cannot say for certain whether a woman who does not wear hijaab will enter Hell, but she deserves the punishment of Allaah because she has disobeyed His command to her. With regard to her specific fate, Allaah knows best what it will be. We cannot speak about things of which we have no knowledge, because Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “And follow not (O man, i.e., say not, ordo not, or witness not) that of which you have no knowledge. Verily, the hearing, and the sight, and the heart of each of those ones will be questioned (by Allaah)” [al-Israa’ 17:36] It is sufficient deterrent for the Muslim whose heart is aware to know that if he does a certain action he will be exposed to the punishment of his Lord, because His punishment is severe and painful, and His Fire is hot indeed. “The Fire of Allaah, kindled, Which leaps up over the hearts” [al-Humazah 104:6-7] On the other hand, for the woman who obeys her Lord’s commands – including observing complete hijaab – we hope that she will enter Paradise and attain the victory of salvation from the Fire and its torments. It is strange indeed that a woman whose character is good, and who prays and fasts and does not look at boys, and avoids gossip and backbiting, does not wear hijaab. If a person really achieves these righteous deeds, this is a strong indication that she loves goodness and hates evil. Let us not forget that prayer prevents immorality and evil, and that good deeds bring more of the same.Whoever fears Allaah concerning his nafs, Allaah will support him and help him against his nafs. It seems that there is much goodness in this Muslim woman, and she is close to the path of righteousness. So she should strive to wear hijaab as her Lord has commanded her. She should ignore the specious arguments and resist the pressures of her family. She should not listen to the words of those who criticize her, and she should ignore the specious arguments of those sinful women who want to make a display of themselves according to fashion, and she should resist the desires of her own self which may tempt her to show off her beauty and feel proud of it. She should adhere to that which will afford her protection and modesty, and rise above being a mere commodity to be enjoyed by every evil person who comes and goes. She should refuse to be a source of temptation to the slaves of Allaah. We appeal to her faith and her love for Allaah and His Messenger, and we urge her to observe the hijaab enjoined by Allaah and to obey the commands of Allaah (interpretation if the meanings): “and not to show off their adornment” [al-Noor 24:31] “and do not display yourselves like that of the times of ignorance, and perform As Salaah (Iqamat as Salaah), and give Zakaah and obey Allaah and His Messenger”[al-Ahzaab 33:33] And Allaah is the Source of strength and the Guide to the Straight Path. Islam Q&A (www.islam-qa.com)
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| | Saturday, February 03, 2001 - 09:58 am Common, lol..sorry.
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| | Sunday, February 04, 2001 - 07:06 am Thanks TLG, Think am just gonna stay the way i am now. Cuz i am used to my pants and not wearing a vail. it is not that i don't to be a good muslim,it is just that i don't wont to change my apperence, hopefully,next year when i move and change to another school.Then i'll start fresh i hope. Last year there were 2 turkish girls in my school, they were in there final year and they decide,weeks before the summer came,to were a vail.the hole school even teachers had their comments ready. One teacher said that they looked stupid,another told them they can forget getting a job etc. Female teachers told them if they were a vail,it is only fair that men were one two etc.The speech that a teacher was going to hold,for the ppl that got their diploma,said that he was gonna say something about the vail,they asked r u gonna say something positve,he said if u want a positve comment,take the vail off! I am just not ready to confront that!
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| | Sunday, February 04, 2001 - 04:07 pm Fardusa, my dearest sister, may Allah guide you and protect you from all evils. Common, I am sorry. ANON, tough guy, "kharir" could be explained to you if you just explain to us what you mean by "the means justifies the jeans"? That kept me, abti, wondering!
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| | Monday, February 05, 2001 - 12:03 pm Assalamu Alaikum. I just thought that some of you may like this poem. May we all benefit from it, Insha Allah. _________________ Emma is a lawyer And so is Aisha too Colleagues going into court At circa half past two Its 1 O'clock right now They grab a bite before the trial They chat about this and that Conversing with a smile Aisha is in full hijab With a loose all over suit Emma's in her business wear With accessories taboot Emma's really quite bemused At Aisha's godly ways She looks Aisha in the eyes And very firmly says You're a smart girl Aisha Why do you wear that across your hair? Subjugated by "man"-kind An object of despair Take it off my sister Let your banner be unfurled Don't blindly follow all around DECLARE YOUR FREEDOM TO THE WORLD Aisha is amazed But not the least bit shy She bravely puts her milk shake down And gives Emma the reply My dear sister Emma, Why do you dress the way you do? The skirt you're wearing round your waist, Is it really you? Now that we've sat down, I see you tug it across your thighs, Do you feel ashamed? Aware of prying eyes? I see the way you're sitting, Both legs joined at the knees, Who forces you to sit like that? Do you feel at ease? I'll tell you who obliges you, To dress the way you do, Gucci, Klein and St. Laurent, All have designs on you! In the main, its men my friend, Who dictate the whims of fashion, Generating all the garb, To incite the basest passion "Sex Sells" there is no doubt, But who buys with such great haste, The answer is the likes of you, Because they want to be embraced...... They want to be accepted, On a level playing field Sure, with brain and intellect But with body parts revealed Intelligence and reason Are useful by and by But if you want to make a mark Stay appealing to the eye You claim your skirt is office like A business dress of sorts Would we not laugh at Tony Blair If he turned up in shorts? His could be the poshest pants Pinstripe from Saville Rowe But walking round like that my friend He'd really have to go Why do you douse yourself with creams To make your skin so milky? Why do rip off all your hair To keep your body silky? A simple shower's all you need To stay respectable and clean The time and money that you spend Is really quite obscene Why do you wake up at dawn, To apply a firm foundation, Topped with make up and the like, In one chaotic combination? And if you should have to leave the house Devoid of this routine Why do you feel so insecure That you should not be seen? Be free my sister Emma Escape from your deep mire Don hijab today my friend And all Islam's attire Avoid all those sickly stares Or whistles from afar Walk down the street with dignity Take pride in who you are Strength lies in anonymity Be a shadow in the crowd Until you speak and interact When your voice will carry loud You're a smart girl Emma Wear this across your hair Don't be subjugated by "man"-kind An object of despair To use your very words my friend Let your banner be unfurled Don't blindly follow all around DECLARE YOUR FREEDOM TO THE WORLD
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| | Monday, February 05, 2001 - 12:20 pm fear Allah nice poem thanks Anon. Thanks brother i will inshallah use Ya Allah instead of Ya Rasoul. TGL and Idea I was kidding guys, no need for the apologizes TGL i owe you mail.. its coming so bear with the overloaded me
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| | Friday, February 16, 2001 - 11:24 am Just wanna place this page at the top. If you are wondering why, i'm disapointed to see the site becoming a battle ground for Muslims.
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| | Friday, February 16, 2001 - 04:04 pm TLG, May Allah reward you 4 that, I wish the squabble would cease so we could benefit from one another. Jazaaka Laah kul kheyr.
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| | Wednesday, February 28, 2001 - 05:22 pm salaamu alykum Are you people Somali I never thought I will seen a brothers and sisters that I can be proud of other then you guys. might ALLAH reword you sincere thoughts. you brother in ISLAM walayku masalaam
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