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Question for TLG

SomaliNet Forum (Archive): Islam (Religion): Archive (Before Feb. 16, 2001): Question for TLG
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MAD MAC

Tuesday, January 09, 2001 - 09:58 pm
Ok Abai, let me continue with the dress code thing.

First let's start with the beard. If I understand you correctly, the Prophet emphasized wearing a beard, so if you're a Muslim you must wear a beard or you would be sinning, is that right? I don't mean to sound flip, but that seems utterly ridiculous. And it also means that most Muslims are sinners (at least the men) because I know tons of Muslims and only a handful have beards.

As for assimilation: I did not say I think people should have to assimilate, I said that history proves if they do not they invite a backlash. I assimliate more or less wherever I go. Some things are too far for my tastes (like wearing those stupid dresses that Arab men wear - they look ridiculous), but generally I try to learn the language and the customs, etc.

I assume then that wearing jeans, for example, is out for women.

Here in Germany the Turkish women wear these incredibly ugly graysih-green overcoats and a Hijab. Not all of them of course, but a lot of them. They look horrible. A true fashion statement: The statement is that fashion is bad.

As for Islams proclamation of the superiority of the believers, I can furnish that in boatloads. But let me start with simple obvious stuff. If you are not a believer then you are labeled Kufaar. The root for the word kufaar is someone who is ungrateful. Don't you think this conveys an air of superiority. We have the "Believers" and the "Ingrates". Labaleing someone an ingrate isn't the best way of going about ingratiating yourself - know what I mean? How about if I labeled you guys the stupid rag heads and we're the developed ones. You wouldn't like that either would you. Well, that's what Islam officially does - it's a mistake to do so when you live in a place populated with a lot of these damn kufaars. That's all I'm saying. It's like wearing a sign that says "I hate Niggers" and taking a walk through Compton. Fortunately for you, most people don't realize that Islam thinks they're morally inferior.

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Nur

Wednesday, January 10, 2001 - 12:45 am
MADMAC

I have read your postings for a while, at first, I was very upset about your logic, then I began to ignore you , now a new idea dawned on me, I want to help you.

I respectfully suggest changing your nick to SANEMAC so we could discuss on level terrain.

We start from the ground up, I respect your opinion, I would expect you do the same. I realize that I can not invite you to have dinner in my house while I critisize your food, so let us be objective and tolerant in this discussion.

You see SANEMAC, You were born a muslim, you may not realize this, but it did happen, it is the environment in which you have lived that formed your outlook in life from whose prespective you are evaluating Islam.

To see things the way we see it, you need to come closer, and the view will be clearer. The picture of Islam in your mind is not the picture of Islam on mine, therefore it is not fair to lynch an innocent person for crimes he did not commit, likewise,Islam is your friend, and I want to prove that to you. You have the right to disagree with this statement.

In the next few postings I would attempt to win you over to our point of view, because I have the feeling that someone like you once given the bare truths and fundementals, that you could be a helpful person not only for Islam but for all of humanity.

Wrong information is like dirt on the lens thru which you see the world ,the better the source of information, the more realistic is your viewing.

Reading your past postings, I find that some muslims are partially responsible in conveying the wrong info on which you have based your attitude toward Islam and Muslims.
I will attempt to fix that.

You may have been introduced to some untimely Islamic teachings that were not presented to you in the order they were revealed. This out of order presentation of Islamic issues may have understandably caused to blur the image you have about Islam.

Another thing that may have glared your vision about Islam is getting Islamic info from incompetent sources that have confused you further and denied Islam a potentially intelligent supporter like yourself. Adding to this mess is the attitude of those on this board, like myself, who were not patient enough with you and kind enough to treat you like a guest of honor to our home SOMALINET.

I therefore apologise wholeheartedly for my past name calling ( KUFAAR) and I will espouse a new way in discussing with you and other non-muslims with respect and kindness.

On behalf of TLG and all other Somalis that may have offended you, I welcome you to the Somalinet discussion boards as guest of honor with all due previllages of guests in our culture.

I expect that you become also patient with other members who may not have reached the same realization or disagree with me .

Based on the above logic, could we begin from basics without assuming that you know everything about Islam, because , without going back to these basics, we may not get the equation right even if we attempt it many times. You see, If we continue doing the same thing, we will drop dead before getting anywhere. And you and I may not want this waste of time.

Sincerely

a caring Somali

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MAD MAC

Wednesday, January 10, 2001 - 02:00 am
OK Nur, I think we can keep the name MAD MAC. It's just a name and everyone here now already know who the players are. Appreciate the sentiment though.

As for Islam - actually I find myself in great sympathy with Islam. But I also realize there are areas where I diverge in viewpoint. but I do not pretend to know everything about Islam. So feel free to keep on enlightening me? BTW do you have a beard????

Now, I have never been offended by any of you. Even Fomerguest who insults me daily (well he did when he was on speaking terms with me). This is Somalinet - not a place for the easily offended. So feel no need to apologize. Besides, I can be a sarcastic dude myself. So fear not. You have never offended me - calling me a lousy kufaar or otherwise.

Now obviously you have a point you want to convey (or points) so shoot.

I hope TLG comes back and answers my questions though. I wonder if she's invite me over for dinner? Probably not - even though I eat with my hands (my anglo friends find that revloting)

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Arawello

Wednesday, January 10, 2001 - 07:56 am
Madmac,

You talk about Islam so there is nothing stops me to reply, I guess.

Let me be extreme as you were indeed in your describtion of the Muslim dress. ( I am new to the dress but learn about it a lot) Okey, do not you add that non- europeans look terribly ugly/
Really it sound like that when you call other poeple's dress stupid and horrible. You are mistaken and indeed ignorant if you do not think dress is part of the culture of anygiven society.

It would be okey if you were stick to your assimilation arguments but now you were indeed nothing but RACIST. I know you will contest that word but let me explain to you what I mean racism can take different forms including prejudace.

I will be back and see if you get better with ypour wordings.

Your's freind
Aro

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common

Wednesday, January 10, 2001 - 08:03 am
Is kuffar really a bad name, huh?, it is just discriptive ain't it?, lousy kuffar, bad name i would agree. Somalis tend to add ajectives to a lot of things, also kenyans, i think maybe africans in general i have heard somali kenyans say "five good" years i did this or i did that.lol. May Allah bless Africans.

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common

Wednesday, January 10, 2001 - 08:13 am
lol @ "question for TGL" everyone but TGL has made a comment.lol.

Arwello, hi sister A salaam alekium, its good to see you back, your messages are cute

Your brother in Islam

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TLG

Wednesday, January 10, 2001 - 05:26 pm
Salaams all,
Nur, you are one sweet bother. I hope Madmac will reciprocate the hospitality you have extended to him. You have nothing to apologise about, I don't think I have ever offended MM.

MadMac, about the beard, here goes it...

"Shaving the beard is haraam because of the saheeh ahaadeeth that clearly state this, and because of the general application of texts that forbid resembling the kuffaar. One of these reports is the hadeeth of Ibn ‘Umar who said that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Be different from the mushrikeen: let your beards grow and trim your moustaches.” According to another report: “Trim your moustaches and let your beards grow.” There are other hadeeth which convey the same meaning, which is to leave the beard as it is and let it grow long, without shaving, plucking or cutting any part of it. Ibn Hazm reported that there was scholarly consensus that it is an obligation (fard) to trim the moustache and let the beard grow. He quoted a number of ahaadeeth as evidence, including the hadeeth of Ibn ‘Umar (may Allaah be pleased with him) quoted above, and the hadeeth of Zayd ibn Arqam in which the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever does not remove any of his moustache is not one of us.” (Classed as saheeh by al-Tirmidhi). Ibn Hazm said in al-Furoo’: “This is the way of our colleagues [i.e., the Hanbalis].”

Is it haraam (to shave it)? Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: “The Qur’aan, Sunnah and ijmaa’ (scholarly consensus) all indicate that we must differ from the kuffaar in all aspects and not imitate them, because imitating them on the outside will make us imitate them in their bad deeds and habits, and even in beliefs, which will result in befriending them in our hearts, just as loving them in our hearts will lead to imitating them on the outside. Al-Tirmidhi reported that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said, “He is not one of us who imitates people other than us. Do not imitate the Jews and Christians.” According to another version: “Whoever imitates a people is one of them.” (Reported by Imaam Ahmad) ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab rejected the testimony of the person who plucked his beard. Imaam Ibn ‘Abd al-Barr said in al-Tamheed: “It is forbidden to shave the beard, and no one does this except men who are effeminate” i.e., those who imitate women. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) had a thick beard (reported by Muslim from Jaabir). It is not permitted to remove any part of the beard because of the general meaning of the texts which forbid doing so."


Fataawa al-Lajnah al-Daa’imah, 5/133 (www.islam-qa.com)

Be back to say a few things about your last paragraph, insha Allah.

Arawello, thanks sis.

Common, lol... but I didn't get that "five years" thing.

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Nur

Wednesday, January 10, 2001 - 11:03 pm
MADMAC

As I promised you, I will begin my attempt to help you clean your lenses so you mey able to see the picture clearer by providing you with the right info.

LET AS GET BASIC

I am going to make some basic statements, please either disagree, or agree, it is that simple.

If I losse you at any point, that tells me were to focus my discussion, so we can get that out of the way and move ahead, there is no point in getting hung up in details ( furuuc) like the beard when the fundementals are not understood or believed.

1. There is a supreme being we muslims call ALLAH
2. Allah is one and unique in every aspect
3. Allah is eternal
4. Allah does not beget nor is Allah begotten
5. Everything that exist comes to him as subject
6. Allah created everything and guides them
7. Allah is perfect
8. Allah is just
9. Allah is in complete control over his creatures and knows their secrets.
10. All good come only from Allah, directly, or indirectly
11. Good and evil are defined by Allah alone
12. Allah is the real owner of all possessions
13. Allah inherits these possessions.
14. Allah crated man
15. Allah elevated man in dignity above all his creatures
16. Satan disputed this rank of elevation
17. Satan openly rebelled aginst Allah, his maker
18. Satan challenged Allah that he will prove that man is not deserving place Allah elevated him to be.
19.Allah warned man about his enemy
20. Allah told man that his enemy lives in another dimension that man can not observe, but Satan can influence man into disobeying his maker.
21. Satan influenced first man and woman
22. Man committed first sin
23. Man repented
24. Satan did not repent,
25. Satan declared war on the decendants of man untill the day of judgement
26. Satan was behind All evil, agony, misery that befell man to this day.
27. Allah sent messengers to man to serve as warning
28. Satan interfered and corrupted minds of people not to believe in these prophets.
29. Satan succeeded at times, failed at others
30. Allah set a day of judgement for Man
31. Allah will be the judge on that day.
32. The standard of measurement on that day would be (XAQ) Truth, Allah is the only interpreter of XAQ as Allah is the author of XAQ.
33. whosoever has XAQ is rewarded to go back to where we belonged and Satan challenged that we did not belong. Heaven
34. Whosoever has no XAQ on that day, punishment will be administered.
35. There is life after death, either in Simmering hell, or in pleasant gardens of paradise.
36. Life after death is eternal.


I stop here today, and see which of the above statements you believe, which ones you do not and why.

Praying Allah for your guidance, and his mercy for you by showing you the right things as right, and helping you to follow , to show you wrong things as wrong, and helping you to stay away from it.

Eternal Peace for those who follow the guidance.

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MAD MAC

Thursday, January 11, 2001 - 12:13 am
Nur
Nothing radical here. I don't agree with some of it, but it all falls in line with what I have heard about Islam before.

TLG
OK, let me ask a couple of questions about the beard. First, does this mean that if you don't wear a beard you are sinning and because you are deliberately not obeying the Qur'an you are not a Muslim??? Second, what if there are professional reasons (safety or hygenic) why you don't wear a beard, is this considered OK?

Arawello
Just because I consider Arabic dress to be ugly doesn't make me racist. I think the men look ridiculous wearing those stupid dresses. Women are suppose to wear dresses, not men. Maybe I can by the Kilt, but the long dress like thing - fugly!!!! I think Somali womens dress, esspecially a nice Dirac, is very attractive. I think Thai dress is mostly attractive as well. But Arabis dress I think looks ridiculous. Arab uniforms are by and large OK unless they put a rag on their heads - which again looks ridiculous.

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Arawello

Thursday, January 11, 2001 - 07:01 am
Saying Dirac is good would not make me feel better. You got to undestand what Iam saying. Theoligy discussion is one thing but reduculing other poeples culture is itself rediculious and I think at this time you demeaned yourself.

I would not be so dogmatic about it if you have said s'' I do not like it that dress of them'' bucause there something we like and dislike about other poeple's culture and behaviour. I personally think dirac should not be dressed outside the house, and I never wear it.

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TLG

Thursday, January 11, 2001 - 09:10 am
Asalaamu alaikum.

MM, I see you are really trying to draw me to this discussion. What do you want? Me to fail my courses?
I hate giving you my opinion when the questions are on Islamic principles (with no proof from Quran or Hadith)but i'm "btn classes" right now. So you'll have to do with my opinion.

From what i've learned so far, the only think that makes you not Muslim (i.e. take you of Islam) is SHIRK (associating partners with Allah).
Every sin does not make someone a non-Muslim. So, following from this logic, I don't think not having a beard makes someone non-muslim. It may make you a sinner but certainly not a kaafir (I think). I personally know Muslim scholars who don't have a beard for health reasons.

Can you be a lil more specific as to what you mean by "hygeine and professional reasons"?

I'm still going to say a few things about your last paragraph in your first message some time soon, insha Allah:-) (seems I can't keep up with you guys. It is like ya'll have secretaries that do the postings for you. More poor student behind can't afford that).

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MAD MAC

Thursday, January 11, 2001 - 10:28 am
Arawello
The Dirac is the nicest thing I've ever seen on a Somali woman. Subtely sexy and attractive. Sorry you don't like one. If you married me, you'd have to wear one. I love 'em!!!

TLG
You did tell me to open a page to discuss things with you, so I did.

So why aren't Jews Muslims? They don't associate partners with Allah. I mean if that's the only thing that differentiates between a Muslim and just a sinner. I thought belief and adherence to the Qur'an was the key.

Hygiene and Professional reasons: If you work in some areas of the food industry and medical industry facial hair is not allowed. Also, in many armies beards are not allowed - they interefere with the proper wear of the protective mask - you can't get a good seal. The Iranians freqeuntly had this problem during the Iran-Iraq war when the Iraqis were employing chemical agents.

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Somalisist@

Thursday, January 11, 2001 - 06:25 pm
Salaam Calaykum guys

Hello everyone

I am kind behind here and I will appereciate if I can have explanation here,,,,,

First the way I see or I understand was about the costume of Islamic clothes and if it's Haram if men shouldn't have beard? if I am wrong please correct me

I don't know why u guys argueing to MM ,,,if he doesn't like Qamiis,,,,,,,doesn't mean He did horrible sin people have different taste...and opinion don't forget ,,,,,I mean if Allah make us all same it would be boring and we would've hate it ,,,,If that's the argument,,,,,About the beard I have brother-in-low,,,and he's very good sheikh and he doesn't have beard even though it's suna and the prophet said it's the one of the simple ,,But I am really not sure if it's haraam to shave it or not,,,,I don't know nothing about it as TLG said it's but I never heard and I'll check if it's true or not,,,,

P.S. Thankx ya all and No hard feeling ,,,,I might say somethin that U think it's bad ,,,,sorry alright and don't get offended,,,,,:),,,,Keep up ya all ,,,,,without disrespecting and No name calling,,,,:)

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TLG

Thursday, January 11, 2001 - 08:16 pm
MM, give me a lil more time, Knight in shining armour. It is on the way. I'm working on some Annoying applications. Don't wanna lose my train of thoughts now.

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MAD MAC

Thursday, January 11, 2001 - 10:43 pm
TLG
Roger abai. Take your time. I'm not going anywhere for a couple of years.

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Anonymous

Friday, January 12, 2001 - 07:33 am
If you are a good muslim, please stay clear of arguing with human virsus or human satan who wants only to call others from peace to delusive situation.

Instead of arguing with them, Just say:
I seek refuge with Allah from accursed Satan and his followers.

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Aro

Friday, January 12, 2001 - 07:39 am
Salaams,

Thankfully god I am not. Not Americans.

Somalisister,

sister no one offended the Guy infact we always apologise to him.

I was angry that he said it is it is horrible and ugly. Have he said I do not like them I would keep my month shut. I made thatvery clear.

See sister, poeple are different.

Ipersonnally do not think much about whether someone is wearing suit or qamiish. but I donot say they are ugly.


One more thing can this questions asked TGL answered by a brother because I do not think it suits her while the brothers are available to answer.

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Galool

Friday, January 12, 2001 - 03:52 pm
Just a comment on Dirac. I agree with MM. I think it is one of the most beautiful ladies' wear anywhere. The nostalgic thought of Somali beauties wearing a see-through Dirac in steamy afternoons on Lido beach is one of the memories I will cherish forever. They leave you with an idelible thought of unfullfilled promise!

No wonder I dislike seeing Somali girls wearing those bland curtains from head to toe!

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PragmaticGal

Friday, January 12, 2001 - 06:05 pm
I think diracs are cute too.and there are no more comfortable attire on hot summer afternoons at home, wherever you are!

although I think Galool's memory is heated and sustained more by the transparent nature of dirac than by anything else :O

But MadMac is being silly. A robe (khamiis) is not a dress, any more than a kilt is a skirt. Most Arab men would abhor the thought of wearing a real woman's dress, and I think you can see why. Same goes for Scotsmen and real women's skirts.

Besides, monks wear habits, which are very similar to khamiis I think. And can you imagine Merlin without his robe decorated with stars and suns?

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TLG

Friday, January 12, 2001 - 06:16 pm
MadMac

OK, first, thanks for your patience pal. When I said the only thing that takes you out of Islam is Shirk (associating partners with Allah) I was assuming that the person already beleives in the basic Islamic concepts). So in the case that we were discussing (the beard issue), shaving off someone's beard does not make them a non-muslim, though they will be sinning. Same thing with a sister that does not wear hijab. She is sinning but not committing shirk.

Next, lets back up a lil and explain what kufr (or disbleif) is then we will answer why the Jews are not Muslims:

The Qu'ran uses the word Kufr to denote people who cover up or hide realities. The Qu'ran uses this word to identify those who denied Allah's favors by not accepting His Dominion and Authority. Kufr thus is an antonym for Iman or disbelief in Allah and a Kafir is a non-believer. This type of Kufr is called AL-KUFRUL AKBAR or major kufr. There are many types of Al-Kufrul Akbar

1. Kufrul-'Inaad:

Disbelief out of stubborness. This applies to someone who knows the truth and admits to knowing the truth and admits to knowing it with his tongue, but refuses to accept it and refrains from making a declaration. Allah(swt) says: Throw into Hell every stubborn disbeliever [Surah Qaaf (50), Ayah 24]

2. Kufrul-Inkaar:

Disbelief out of denial. This applies to someone who denies with both heart and tongue.

Allah(swt) says: They recognize the favors of Allah, yet they deny them. Most of them are disbelievers. [Surah Nahl(16), Ayah 83]

3. Kufrul-Kibr:

Disbelief out of arrogance and pride. The disbelief by the devils (Iblis) is an example of this type of Kufr.

4. Kufrul-Juhood:

Disbebelief out of rejection. This applies to someone who aknowledges the truth in his heart, but rejects it with his tongue. This types of kufr is applicable to those who calls themselves Muslims but who reject any necessary and accepted norms of Islam such as Salaat and Zakat.

Allah (swt) says: They denied them (OUR SIGNS) even though their hearts believed in them , out of spite and arrogance. [Surah Naml(27), Ayah 14]

5. Kufrul-Nifaaq:

Disbelief out of hypocrisy.This applies to someone who pretends to be a believer but conceals his disbelief. Such a person is called a MUNAFIQ or hypocrite.

Allah( swt) says: Verily the hypocrites will be in the lowest depths of Hell. You will find no one to help them. [Surah An Nisaa (4), Ayah 145]

6. Kufrul-Istihaal:

Disbelief out of trying to make HARAM into HALAL. This applies to someone who accepts as lawful (Halal) that which Allah has made unlawful(Haram) like alcohol or adultery.Only Allah(swt) has the prerogative to make things Halal and Haram and those who seek to interfere with His right are like rivals to Him and therefore fall outside the boundries of faith.

7. Kufrul-Kurh:

Disbelief out of detesting any of Allah's(swt) commands. Allah(swt) says: Perdition (destruction) has been consigned to those who disbelieve and He will render their actions void. This is because they are averse to that which Allah has revealed so He has made their actions fruitless. [Surah Muhammed (47), Ayah 8-9]

8. Kufrul-Istihzaha:

Disbelief due to mockery and derision.

Allah (swt) says: Say: Was it at Allah, His signs and His apostles that you were mocking? Make no excuses. You have disbelieved after you have believed. [Surah Taubah (9), ayah 65-66]

9. Kufrul-I'raadh:

Disbelief due to avoidance. This applies to those who turn away and avoid the truth.

Allah(swt) says: And who is more unjust than he who is reminded of his Lord's signs but then turns away from them. Then he forgets what he has sent forward (for the Day of Judgement) [Surah Kahf(18), Ayah 57]

10. Kufrul-Istibdaal:

Disbelief because of trying to substitute Allah's Laws. This could take the form of: (a) Rejection of Allah's law(Shariah) without denying it (b) Denial of Allah's law and therefore rejecting it, or (c) Substituting Allah's laws with man-made laws.

Allah (swt) says: Or have they partners with Allah who have instituted for them a religion which Allah has not allowed. [Surah Shuraa(42), Ayah 8]

Allah(swt) says: Say not concerning that which your tongues put forth falsely (that) is lawful and this is forbidden so as to invent a lie against Allah. Verily, those who invent a lie against Allah will never prosper. [Surah Nahl (16), Ayah 116]


Ok, now that we have the basics covered, in the next post, I'll answer your quesion on why the Jews are not Muslims.

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TLG

Friday, January 12, 2001 - 07:00 pm
MM, here it is...please don't ask me why Allah said this or that or why he didn't do it this way or that way.

<So why aren't Jews Muslims? They don't associate partners with Allah.>

This is because Allah has declared that Jews and Christians are disbelievers (kuffaar) in His Book. Allah has said, "And the Jews say, 'Ezra is the son of Allah', and the Christians say, ‘The Messiah is the son of Allah.’This is a saying from their mouths. They imitate the saying of the
disbelievers of old. Allah’s curse be on them, how they are deluded away from the truth. They took their rabbis and their monks as lords besides Allah and [they also took as Lord] the
Messiah, son of Mary. But they were commanded only to worship none but One God. Praise and Glory be to Him, [far above is He]from having the partners they associate with Him." [at-Taubah 9:30-31]

Also, do you recall what I told you about obeying Allah and obeying the prophet (in the hijab folder)? If you do, read the below:

The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: "By the one in whose hand my soul is (meaning Allah), no Jew or Chrisitian of this community hears about me - that is from the community of the people from the time of the prophet (peace be upon him) until the Day of Judgment - and then does not follow me - or he said does not believe in what I brought - except that he is from the inhabitants of the Hell-fire." [Saheeh Muslim]

The Jews have been described as those who have earned Allah’s wrath. That is because they knew the truth and chose to go against it. The Christians have been described as those who have gone astray. This is because they sought the truth but were misled from it. Now, all of them have knowledge of the truth and recognize it.
However, they go against it. Therefore, they all are disbeleivers. They also reject the Prophet (peace be upon him) eventhough they have been ordered to beleive in him, even in their own books.

Allah states in the Quran, "My Mercy embraces all things. That (Mercy) I shall ordain for those who are God-fearing and give zakat, and those who believe in Our revelations. Those who follow the Messenger, the illiterate Prophet whom they find written about with them in the TORAH and the GOSPEL, he commands what is right and forbids what is evil. He allows them the good things and forbids for them disdainful things. He releases them from their heavy burdens and from the fetters that were upon them. So those who believe in him, honor him, help him, and follow the light which has been sent down with him, it is they who will be successful. Say (O Muhammad): O Mankind! Verily, I am sent to all of you as the Messenger of Allah, to whom belongs the heavens and the earth. There is no true God but He. It is He who gives life and causes death. So believe in Allah and His Messenger, the unlettered, who believes in Allah and His Words. And follow him so that you may be guided." [al-Araf 7:156-158].

<I mean if that's the only thing that differentiates between a Muslim and just a sinner. I thought belief and adherence to the Qur'an was the key>

Sorry if I mislead you but, I think what we were discussing is a MUSLIM who sins. It is totally a different ball game when you talk about a NON-MUSLIM who sins. Now, you are right on the notion that the beleif comes first. And the Quran is a key.

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TLG

Friday, January 12, 2001 - 07:28 pm
MM, for the beard thing and professional reasons, here is a simalar question asked on
(http://www.islam-qa.com). The same ruling goes for those who fly planes or those work in MacD.

Question:

I am in the army and I always shave my beard, because I am forced to do so. Is this haraam or not?


Answer:

Praise be to Allaah.

It is not permissible to shave the beard,
because according to saheeh ahaadeeth, the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be
upon him) commanded us to leave it alone
and let it grow. He (peace and blessings of
Allaah be upon him) told us that by leaving it
alone and letting it grow, we would be
differing from the Magians and mushrikeen,
and he (peace and blessings of Allaah be
upon him) had a thick beard. It is obligatory
for us to obey the Messenger (peace and
blessings of Allaah be upon him); following
his example with regard to attitude and
actions is one of the best deeds, because
Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Indeed in the Messenger of Allaah(Muhammad) you have a good example to follow [al-Ahzaab 33:21]
“And whatsoever the Messenger(Muhammad) gives you, take it; and whatsoever he forbids you, abstain (from it)[al-Hashr :7]

“And let those who oppose the Messenger’s
(Muhammad’s) commandment (i.e. his Sunnah legal ways, orders, acts of worship, statements) (among the sects) beware, lest some Fitnah (disbelief, trials, afflictions, earthquakes, killing, overpowered by a tyrant) should befall them or a painful torment be inflicted on them [al-Noor 24:63]

Imitating the kuffaar is one of the gravest of
evil actions, and is one of the causes of being
gathered with them on the Day of Resurrection, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said, “Whoever imitates a people is one of them.” If you are doing a job where you are required to shave your beard, do not obey them with regard to that, because the
Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be
upon him) said, “There is no obedience to
any created being if it involves disobedience
to the Creator.” If they oblige you to shave
your beard, then leave that job where you
are being forced to do something that angers
Allaah. There are many other ways of earning a living, may Allaah be praised. Whoever gives up something for the sake of Allaah, Allaah will compensate him with something better than that.

May Allaah help you and make things easier
for you. May He make us and you steadfast
in His religion.

Majmoo’ Fataawa wa Maqaalaat Mutanawwi’ah li Samaahat al-Shaykh al-‘Allaamah ‘Abd al-‘Azeez ibn‘Abd-Allaah ibn Baaz (may Allaah have mercy on him), vol. 8, p. 376

But if your military service is obligatory and they take you by force and shave your
beard, then the sin is on them and not on
you at all. And Allaah knows best.


Islam Q&A (www.islam-qa.com)

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Anonymous

Saturday, January 13, 2001 - 03:18 am
Walaal TLG

Ninka la yiraah maakwaalane, waa nin diinteenna neceb oo adiga dumarnimaada meel uga dhacaya, wasakh iyo edebdarro ayuu kugula hadlaa, sida diraca haweenka korkooda laga arko inuu ku sifeeyo seksi, uu haddana magaca galool isticmaalo asagoo ka hadlaya naagihii qaawanaa ee badda Somalia gaalada raaci jiray

Hadaba ragga ninkaan ha u jawaabeenee ee adiga karaamadaada waa mid aad ii la sarreeysa aniga, ee ninkaan mar dambe ha u jawaabin.

Ninku ma aha nin xaq raadis ah, ee waa nin dumar Somaliyeed oo fasahaadsan raadinaya, marka qurunkiisa ha raadsado, adigana ka fogow jawaabtiisa.

Xaq Islaam baan kuugu maseyray ee iga raalli noqo haddaan kugu xadgudbay.

Walaalkaa diinta kugu jecel

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Arawello

Saturday, January 13, 2001 - 08:32 am
Salaams,

Though, I disliked the question addressed to TGl ( at least some of them because I beleave the questions of beard stuff should be asked the brothers) anyway I will thank TGL who spent her time for the sake of Allah, May Allah bless you sister.

Secondly, I strongly recommend that any muslim should write here and answer any questions that they may thin they have an answer for. MM sorry dude, I refuse your suggestions that TGL only should write here, I did this for Islamic reasons.

Anyway,

Let me start with Galool,

Whether you hate them or not they are those who are right and you know that from the bottom of your heart.


The questions.

I like the short answers and I think I should summarise some of the points made above;
The difference between Islam and other monotheistic religoins are The basic beleave of islam that you beleive is THERE IS ONE GOD AND THE PROPHET MOHEMED PBUH WERE HIS MASSENGER AND THE LAST ONE.anything else would make you disbeleaver. Now as we know The Jew though do beleave in one god they rejected the Prophet. Thsi goes to Christianity.


TGL,

Where did you get that answer. I mean the person should quit the job if not fufilling the sunna. I though there were sunna muakadah and sunna.

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TLG

Saturday, January 13, 2001 - 09:31 am
Asalaamu alaikum...

First, Anonymous, Jazakallahu khairan for your advice. I trust it was well-intentioned.

Having said that, let me just say that I'm weak in this department (the language you wrote in) and as such don't know if I understood your message well. From the gist of it, i'm disturbed by some of your comments. Now, I have two options here. Either respond to you in English which might create some problems or let it be. I'm more inclined to the latter option but I don't want you to think I ignored your message. Let me remind you that some of us were brought up to beleive we can rule the world despite being women! That having being said, I have set parameters as far a anything goes. And those parameters are set by what is in the QURAN AND THE SUNNAH.
Your sister in Islam,
TLG.

Arawello, jazakallahu khairan for the dua. Sis, I think as Muslim women, our knowledge of Islam should not be confined to specific issues. Remember Aisha(RA) and how even the men went to learn from her? I must admit I learned a thing or two while researching for answers to some of these questions. However, I think the brothers here are waaaay knowledgabe than me as far as Islam goes. But for some reason, they chose not to participate in this folder.

To all,
Anyone who has an answer or a comment to the questions should feel free to do so. The reason why the folder says "Question for TLG" is because I had an issue with MadMac in a folder I was trying to "protect". I then said to him to move his questions (some of which were genuine) to another folder and let me know. I think he labelled this folder as such to attract my attention. This does NOT mean the questons can only be answered by me. We are all here for specific reasons. If you are here to educate people about Islam or to correct misconceptions, then I don't see why you shouldn't answer the questions. SINCE WHEN DO PEOPLE NEED OTEHRS' PERMISSION (ON SOMALINET) TO COMMENT ON A DISCUSSION?

salaam.

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TLG

Saturday, January 13, 2001 - 09:51 am
Asalaamu alaikum,

Sister Arawello, in regards to your quesion, I beleive I gave the source of the Fatwa. Please scroll up and read the message.

your sis,
TlG

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Aro

Saturday, January 13, 2001 - 10:08 am
TGL,

OK,

But I did not know that someone should give up the job for that reason. Same as I do not beleave muharam stuff. No, I beleave the scholars will interprate this issue. anyone help me out here.

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Anonymous

Saturday, January 13, 2001 - 09:08 pm
Walaashey Islaamka.

Mahadsanid. Jawaabtaada waan fahmay. Waan ka xumahay in luqadda aad u dhalatay aadan si fiican u fahmin.

Waxaad tiri " From the gist of it, i'm disturbed by some of your comments"

Walaal, Which ones?. please print as it is and leave it Somali.

Walaal Allah dhowr arrin ayuu no faray inaan ilaalinno

1. Diinteenna, waxaa lagu ilaaliyaa halgan
2. Maalkeenna, waxaa lagu ilaaliyaa xuduudda
3. Sharafteenna, waxaa lagu ilaaliyaa "mulaacana"
4. Nasabkeenna, waxaa lagu ilaaliyaa, guurka

Walaal sharafka haweenka , qofkii ku xadgudba Allah wuu nacalladay, suuratul Nuur. Sidaa darteed safiih hadduu haweenka muslimka ah ku xadgudbo waa in laga fogaadaa safiihaas.

" Wa ladiina hum canil laghwi mucriduun" Those who do not get involved with nonsense.

Haweenka muslimaatka ahna uma qalmaan iney hadal la wadaan qof rag ah oo qasadkiisa cad yahay inuu yahay xumaan raadis. Qofka kheyrka raba, inaad la hadasho ajar badan ayaad ka heleysaa.

Please note, I am not patronizing, and I did not intend to.

Walaalkaa fillaah

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MAD MAC

Sunday, January 14, 2001 - 08:13 am
P. Gal
OK, I think they look ridiculous. I think Monks robes look ridiculous too.

TLG I have two questions reference disbelief. The first is disbelief reference Halal and Haram. If I read you right, then a Muslim who shaves is guilty of this type of disbelief. Does this make him Kufaar???

Secondly, what about someone who would like to believe, but it's just not in their heart? What kind of kufaar is this??

As for the beard. Well, in the US Army a man is required to be clean chaven, although he is allowed to have a well-trimmed mustache. If you cited religious regions for keeping a beard, the Army might make an exception. The biggest problem, however, is with a beard you can't get a seal on your mask. Like an astronaut. If you are a Muslim and you want to travel into space, you can't have a flowing beard. So for issues in which it's based on a health reason (like you would die, for example) is it OK to shave???

FOR EVERYONE - Roger, I only wanted to draw your attention. Anyone can comment here, just like anyone should be welcome to comment anywhere. Since TLG asked me not to comment on her other folder, since she started it I thought this was fair enough, so I set this one up.

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Arawello

Monday, January 15, 2001 - 09:01 am
Salaams,

Sister TGL with all the due respect, I think I need to commont on the queries by MM and your answers.

First, of all , MM asked a very broud question that what would happen if something cannot be done because of health reasons or job reasons.

Sister, these kind of questions are very straightforward and we need to be consice.
You quoted a question and answer but sister you have to remember the questions are asked the Ulama each question has some facts that comes with it. For example, we do not know the circumastance of the person asked the question. second, do not you think the ulama would not take into consideration when the person concerned is a native say English who was in the Army for sometime.
Third, though, I respect the answer, I think you should not call it Fatwa because calling it fatwa can be dangerious.

Also , I think you did not fallow what I said the other day. Okey, what I meant was that something are from the Quran and something are the hadith of the Propet pbuh. something are Wajeb and something is Sunna.
The Sunna are two kind ; Sunna muakadah and sunna. The sunna muakadah, it is like wajeb but the sunna only is not. For example, I do not have to pray the two rakah after the fajra. So, what about if the wearing beard is not sunnah muakadah.


MM,

It is difficult for us here to give you our opinion about your questions lest we may not express ourselves proberly.

However, I can tell you something, anything to do with health there are exceptions. These exceptions come from the Quran and the sunnah.
I remember a hadith which refers when a person's live is indanger, he/ she should not take wadu for example.

I think you are aware also that a person should not fast if he is not well. ( the examples like that are found for many things that poeple come accross today, the scholars make an anology, and that is why Islam is never outdated)


Salaams now.

I often write while thinking so did i now.

NB

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Abdi

Tuesday, January 16, 2001 - 12:16 pm
To: All Anonymous

Thank you brothers/sisters for your your Islamic advices to sisters who have arguments with non-muslims or weak muslims that call down our religion and sisters' prestiges in their words.

Whenever there is an argument between two persons, Satan is the third one who participates strongly until all they fail and be his fellows.
So, let them go into their wants since you did your best of giving advice to them. And maybe those sisters cause them(non-muslims or weak muslims) covert to Islam or become strong muslims who will stand someday for defensing their real religion(Islam).

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MAD MAC

Tuesday, January 16, 2001 - 09:38 pm
Abdi
Using your rationale no one would ever discuss anything lest their be a disagreement (pretty much inevitable) and Satan rears his ugly head.

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Wondering

Wednesday, January 17, 2001 - 09:05 am
MM

Do you think TLG was killed by Mooryaan or she took the advice of those self-appointed big-guys?

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Anonymous

Wednesday, January 17, 2001 - 09:58 am
Wonding or Ex. Mad Mac

How come you are looking for only one person(TLG)?
Or you can't believe how good she is in her religion, and you wish seeing her in the opposite side(sickness).
Insha Allah, Allah will be with her and protect her from any kind of evils!

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MAD MAC

Wednesday, January 17, 2001 - 10:23 am
Isha Allah.

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Nasteexo416

Wednesday, January 17, 2001 - 04:09 pm
MADMAC! I know who u are!!!!!You are mukhtar.
And your Kufaar!You told me that ones ur self.
TLG! i adore you sis.Ur the best.
So is the rest of you guys!
peeace ur sistah!!!!!!!!

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MAD MAC

Wednesday, January 17, 2001 - 09:41 pm
Nasteexo416 (that's a hell of a user name you got there)

You are correct, I am Kufaar. And everyone on this thread already knows that. I'm not Mukhtar though. I'm not Somali. Who the hell is Mukhtar and why did you think I was him? I did have a friend named Abdullahi Mukhtar Sheik. That's the only Mukhtar I know. and he's in Hamer right now.

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Idea

Thursday, January 18, 2001 - 08:32 am
TLG,

Do i hear you say to MM: inta malak yaa walad? lol

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Mohamed of Toronto

Thursday, January 18, 2001 - 02:29 pm
Assalamu Calaykum.
Sis Nasteexo after I read and reread those messages that were written by this so called MAD Mac I was wondering too if this was a Somali Kaafir.

But whether somali or not one thing we know about him is that he is kaafir.So let us keep giving him dacwa in accordance with the islamic wisdom(xigma)as long as he is here to attain the light of Islam.

thanks and may allah reward u all for spreading the xaq.

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TLG

Thursday, January 18, 2001 - 06:40 pm
Asalaamu alaikum...

Guys, I was kidnapped by aliens. They took to me to outer space and did some funky experiments on me that messed up my genetic code, to the extent I couldn't access Somalinet. Fortunately, thanks to modern genetics, the problem has been solved for now.

Seriouly, thanks for your concerns guys. And no, I wasn't killed by mooryaan (whatever that is). And except for some caffeine induced behaviour, i'm fine. Alhamdulilah. Alhamdulilah. Alhamdulilah.

To Madmac:

<TLG I have two questions reference disbelief. The first is disbelief reference Halal and Haram. If I read you right, then a Muslim who shaves is guilty of this type of disbelief. Does this make him Kufaar????>

I'm supprised you ask this question with all your analytical ability! I'll however give you the benefit of the doubt. From what I understood from that type of Kufr, it applies to someone who changes a halal to a haraam by making it a law for the rest of the muslims to follow. So in the case we are discussing (the beard), If someone shaves his beard, as long as he is not telling everyone else that shaving of the beard is not a sin (i.e. it is allowed), then he is only a sinner. Not a kaafir. However, if he tells the rest of the Muslims that shaving of the beard is not a sin (i.e. halal), then he is changing the law and that MIGHT be considered kufr. I'm not sure though, but will check it up. Allah knows best.

<Secondly, what about someone who would like to believe, but it's just not in their heart? What kind of kufaar is this??>

I dunno, a confused kufaar? I'm just kidding.
But, what do u mean "they would like to believe but it is just not in their heart?" Could it be perhaps the person is going against his/her natural inclination to believe? Is ignoring all the cues that point him/her in the direction of believe, thereby following his/her desire?

To Arawello:

Sis, I think you should read the question MM asked from the begining and follow throught to the point where I posted the questionf from the website. Then may be u will have a better I dea of what is happening. As for calling it a fatwa, I thought that is a what a religious ruling is called. Besides, that is what it was called in the question. Scroll up and see.

As for different kinds of sunnahs, from what I learned, the beard issue is not the same as the example of the fajr sunnah you gave. I don't have the reference with me right now, but from what I learned, there are different forms of sunnahs:
1) something that the Prophet peace be upon him recommended, such as the example of the fajr prayer u gave. In this, there is no sin on u if you leave it.
2) Something the prophet peace be upon him ordered. I don't have an example now. If you go against this, then u are disobeying the prophets order.
3) Things he (peace be upon) prohibited. I have no example for this either, but like the number 2 above, if you go against this u are disobeying the prophet. I think (and someone can correct me if i'm wrong) the beard issue falls into this category. The Prophet peace be upon said, do not shave your beard. I you do shave it, you are disobeying him, and thus sinnig. And Allah knows best.

When I get a chance, I 'll search for the different forms of sunnahs insha Allah.

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TLG

Thursday, January 18, 2001 - 08:47 pm
Hey MadMac, that "isha Allah" thing made me smile. You are learning guy, keep it up

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MAD MAC

Thursday, January 18, 2001 - 10:47 pm
What does Inta Malak Yaa Walad mean?

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common

Friday, January 19, 2001 - 06:11 am
TGL

he can be endearing on occassions can't he.
May Allah guide him

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TLG

Friday, January 19, 2001 - 07:12 am
Common, you are right! But can also be a pain in the rear end sometimes. And yes, may Allah guide him.

<What does Inta Malak Yaa Walad mean?>
What is the matter with you, white boy?
I added the "white" part. hehehehehe

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TLG

Friday, January 19, 2001 - 07:13 am
What does Mooryaan mean by the way?

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Anonymous

Friday, January 19, 2001 - 08:10 am
Assalamu Alacum TGL wellcome back,

Sister your repetition that I should read what You have posted, is not a kind of anger besides you did not reply my mail. Wodering??/

Anyway, sister, if I miss understood you I would not have counter argued with you, and commont on your postings. Unless you are suggesting that I misundertood you??? sister, me there is no need to argue with anyone on the net but we share Islam. And I beleave that a muslim is a mirror for another muslim.

okey, going back your reply. sister, am I thinking or you repeated what I have said about the Sunn but inother way of saying it. I have chosen to say '' there are different kinds of sunna'' and you said there forms of sunna. we have agreed on that, did not we? I remind you that I have posed a question saying '' what about if it is not sunna muakada'' because you did not mention that.

I again repeat, I think, the Qand A you posted does not necessarly help the queries that MM made; for one, Mm is not a Muslim that would follow the hadiths that the Sheakh quated. secondly, MM asked what would happen if'' and he took ath example of Hygienic and proffesional reasons, would the Qand A gave to answer to these kind of general question.


Why I said we have to be precise is that we should not fall into a situation where we are not scholars and possibly have avery liitle esxperience that questions that asked by non-muslims, then can make islam something that difficulty to practise.

Again I repeat the questios Mm asked should be answered giving him the basic teachings of Islam. Surely everything in Islam goes back to uts basic teachings. ( I wrote above my answer to his queries)


Look sister, It is important that we should take care the way we are answering the questions. now, read what questions that MM asked you , does he sound to you he did understand the Qand A you posted? ( MM no offence to you)


I am a kind of rush but Insha Allah,

I am out here
MM,

Have you not read what I posted on this issue?? if yes, does it make sense to you.


NB. I do not want to sound someone who is claiming Ilmi or better. And I amde that very clear that I am not knowleageble. But, I think there is osmetimes when we need each other for explainition besides its a kind of my job to commont on!!!


This is Arawello

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Brother with Advice

Friday, January 19, 2001 - 04:01 pm
Assalam ala manitaba al-Huda (Peace unto those who are rightly guided)

Sis TLG, I have read debating with this Kaafir MAD COW as he called hime self many times, I will advice as your my sister in Islam to stop that, because so far there are brother and sister before you tried to advice this guy but never change. So my advice is again don't wast your time writing these long lines. Also Allaah warn that dabeting PPL of the Book without Benefit

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Idea

Friday, January 19, 2001 - 04:34 pm
salaam alaykum all,

Jazaak Allah kul kheer brother with advise and may Allah guide us to what is right.

Sisters TLG & Arawelo,

First of all, May Allah bless you both and be His guests in al-Fardus.
Secondly, i think both of you guys are repeatedly saying the same points but looking at things from a different perspective.

Sister Arawello...you are definitely right. Our religion is easy and we shouldn't seek to complicate it. And that we shouldn't try to give illustration on matters on which we are ignorant of. Most of us are not scholars but i pray that ALLAH gives us His wisdom.

Sister TLG, maa-sha-allah. You are right too. If a person asks a question...and you sincerely have an answer for him/her...it is a simple Islamic manner to answer back. May Allah give you His strenght and wisdom, amiin.

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Anonymous

Saturday, January 20, 2001 - 08:28 am
Dear All

Is it wise to let MM drive this discussion to waste your time?

MM sits in his military barracks in Germany and has as a pastime nostalgia for days he spent in the peace keeping force in Mogadishu were he was after lust like any non muslim soldier. Thats why he talks about dirac, and decribes shamelessly the body shape of women in those transparent dresses. If this is not degrading women, what is it? MM like to enjoy looking at these women while he has a can of beer in his hand listening to loud music in a smoke filled bar.

He hates Islam, muslims , beard, hijaab, and all decency.

He is like the fly, he falls on injuries, to dig it until it hurts. He can not hurt healty people, but he can shake the belief of those who have wounds in their faith.

His target on this board has been Somali women, who remind him his nostalgic lusty days in Mogadishu beaches. He can not get over that to see other breed of Somali women who happen to have a rock solid faith in Islam. While they invite him to become muslim and earn paradise, he is cruel to them that he wants to lead them to hell.

Since he has no belief in whatsoever supreme, MM is his own God. He worships himself. And for him everything that will not take him to jail is Halal. This man is no good.

He uses different screen names like Galool, Practicalgal, etc. I do not know how many more, but you can tell from his style of writing.

He has no belief in anything except lust with women. He wants to cast doubt on our beliefs and faith so we become like him.

MM is not serious in life, he does not care where he goes when he dies. He never contemplates about the wisdom of creation. He has either the intelligence of an eleven year old , is on mission to blaspheme or he is out to lunch.

MM should not be allowed to breed.

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TLG

Saturday, January 20, 2001 - 11:40 am
Asalaamu alaikum...

To All, jazakumullahu khairan for your advise.

Arawello, Sorry sis, looks like i'm the one that misread you. I sent you an e-mail. Please read it.

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Nasteexo416

Saturday, January 20, 2001 - 11:35 pm
Hey MADMAC!
its me again,Nasteexo416.
LoL!
"i believe stability and education iz the key to somalias economic future"
That was deep!!!!!!!!
WATEVER mukhtar or hans ,its the same thing.
I believe that somalia needs more than that!
bY THE WAY SPRECHEN SIE DEUTCH?

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MAD MAC

Sunday, January 21, 2001 - 12:08 am
TLG
What's wrong with the White Boy. You know, you ain't the first person to ask that. I like to think that I see things with a clarity most people lack, but all crazy people think that. So who knows.

Common did you check out the CD?? You will love it, trust me.

Arawello
I understood your responses. Keep 'em coming.

Brother With Advice
How do you expect people to be empathetic with your point of view if you don't want to discuss it with them.

Anonymous
You will notice that I did open this thread to ask TLG about Quranic questions discussing dress issues. So that to some degree I might be driving this discussion should not be surprising should it.
As for sitting in a poorly lit, somewhat smoky room with a naked Somali woman in one hand and a good beer in the other - well it's pretty hard to conjure up a more appealing scenerio. But I am willing to bet you that at least half of all Somali males would like to be there with me.
I do not hate Islam, beards (my father use to wear one) hijab or decency. That's ridiculous. Just because someone is not an adherent to Islam doesn't mean he hates it. Don't be a moron. Your using a flawed inverted logic. I may like to hang out with sleazy woman (I gave that up and am monogomous now), drink and do plenty of other haram things but that doesn't mean I can't respect someone who doesn't do those things. We don't all have to be carbon copies to respect each other. You know I had a friend who, although ostensibly a Muslim, broke almost every rule in the book. But when the heat was on I watched him risk his life to save "a lousy kufaar." I'd much rather be in that mans company than some holier than thou type who'S sitting around passing judgement one everyone else.
Lastly, obviously you have not been following the threads enough to realize that I do believe in God. Just because I believe differently than you doesn't mean I don't believe.

Nasteexo416
Bring on the stability and education and the rest will follow Jalle. Und ja, ich kann Deutsch. Mein Sohn ist Deutsch, meine ex-Frau ist Deutsch, Viele Meine Freunde sind Deutsch, unsw. Ich Wohne in Augsburg - und du????

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PragmaticGal

Sunday, January 21, 2001 - 04:32 pm
The number of people telling TLG to curb her desire to reply to MadMac is amazing. More than anything else, it shows the thin veneer beneath which real religion operates: Don't Associate With Those Holding Contrary Opinions, Especially If You Are a Woman--Even If You Are Trying To Change Them. It's Better--And Safer--to Stay With Your Own Kind.

That's basically what half the posters are saying, because they know how dangerous it is to participate in open discussions: You might actually began to question the unquestionable.

MadMac:

If you think monks robes and khamiis are ridiculous, that's fine. Just try not to make it a universal law that men must wear pants, and all who don't are not men--a century or two ago, American men (like their European relatives) were strutting around in tights. And codpieces in the Middle Ages are truly astounding examples of how odd fashion can get and still be considered acceptable :-)

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TLG

Sunday, January 21, 2001 - 05:53 pm
PG, don't be so quick in making a conclusion on how "real religion" operates from what a few individuals have said or done. Besides, all the "unquestionables" have already been questioned on this forums by MadMac (and his cohorts). Perhaps there is something left that you might wanna reveal to us? As for the discussions being "dangerou" (for me), I don't think MadMac or anyone else in this forums will come up with anything more than what I have discussed(and continue to discuss) with Family memebers who have views worse than his. And on this note, anyone (i.e. the advisors) who is worried for my well being can put their lil heart(s) to rest.


MadMac, pardon me? I just translated for you what Idea said. Not particularly interested in what is wrong with the white boy. That is the thanks I get eh?
So you "see things with clarity that most people lack"? Gosh, such wisdom! You must be sooo proud of yourself. Tell us more, knight in shining armour!
BTW, i'm working on that "confused kufaar" thing. So don't think I forgot":O

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ImposterBuster

Sunday, January 21, 2001 - 07:51 pm
The real TLG please stand up!

I am confused here, I have read all the threads signed TLG and I am disturbed to find conflicting personalities.

One personality comes across as kind, witty, devout muslim,soft hearted, humorous,gentle, supports her arguments with Quraan and Sunnah alone and does not accept anything else, period!

The other personality, is rebellious, independent (even from some members of her family who share MM philosophy), very daring, confident that no one can mislead her, strong willed, aggressive.

Some of these I can reconcile, some I can not.

A muslim woman to be devout needs to be strong willed.

But a devout muslim women, or a man for that matter, can not be self confident. The prophet SAWS used to make dua

" O Allah do not delegate my guidance to my own self even for for the slightest time span" aamin

Over-confidence can kill faith.

If there is an imposter acting like TLG, please stop.

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TLG

Sunday, January 21, 2001 - 08:09 pm
Imposterbuster, i'm afraid to disapoint you that there is no imposter here. All the messages that are posted by "TLG" are by me. I'll insha Allah respond to your message some other time.
Yaa Allah! Life is intersting!

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MAD MAC

Monday, January 22, 2001 - 12:13 am
TLG
"Knight in shining armour". That's much better than confused Kufaar. Yeah baby. I got briefly confused when you did the translation I thought you were the original poster. Mea Culpa.

Pragmatic Girl
Well, I wasn't talking overall fashion here. I think Cowboy fashion is equally ridiculous. On the other hand, there is some far east fashion that I think is great. But I don't think there should be universal law or anyting. People should be free to dress in bad taste.

BTW do you ever wear a Dirac???

I gotta tell you guys this story. You know how at Somali weddings the men always eat and socialize in one spot and the women in another. Well, I was invited to this Somali wedding, and a nuber of women were wearing Diracs. Of course there were no men in their area. I had been invited by the bride (I barely knew the groom who came from another city). So I went and brought a card with some money for the newlyweds. Well one of the other Somali girls (a mutual friend) took me in to see the bride so I could give her the card. I was just going to have the girl-friend deliver it. Well you should have seen the evil eyes I got by about half the women for this gross breach of etiquete. I must say though, that the women looked absolutely lovely. I was trying hard to pretend not to notice. True story - happened in Damrstadt Germany. Lot of cool Somalis there.

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Arawello

Monday, January 22, 2001 - 08:03 am
Thanks Idea but my point about scholars was not that we are pretending to be but that we should be precise about ansering questions. And I was not advicing sis TGL not answe, though, I did say that at the beggining at this particular time I was just concerned about the confusaion that can be coused.

I know I said I will stay from here but just could not help today.


MM,

I have read onother thread that you common on all those of us on this forums including you. But, I think, you should let the pothers to commont on you, and here my commonts on goes; Tirelles, argumatatlive but confused American soldier, who fins very difficult to see Islam different from Sadam and the Moryan confronted him sometime ago, somehwere in the horn of africa. He over uses the words sexs and attractives , though, sometimes what has been disccused is far away any meaning of theses words?????( do you want me continue this let me know)


PG,

Hey, It is interesting to found out that you are a lady. I have looked and skimmed true some of your postings. Intersting to meet a copy of an old freind. She is/was exactly like you. What a crude!! this freind of mine, who happened to be a same clan us me used to come to where I lived. Then, we had a conversation about women and Islam. She seemed to me quite intellegent. I liked here ideas then I thought, may be we can have a bit more talk on that. Okey, she suggested that I would come with her to a near pizzahot. Unknown to me she had invited her male friend ( a Europen) I much younger than her and abit insecure, I was quite anxious about it. Anyways, she started talking about the subject. then, she repeated the samethings. we talked and talked but the lady kept saying the samething. Then, at one point she rpeated what the guy said and agreed. then, he said, I thought, you were a muslim. It was then when I realised that my friend did not understand what she was saying properly. she learnt it by heart. then, onother time still wondering, I asked her, if we can spak in Somali and her points was excatly the opposite.

so, just reading what you posted, I am wondering if you do really beleave in what you posted or just seemed to you nice english language ( do not take this as I am critising your English, me, English is my thrird language )

I do not think you need any dielatical discussions only going back to Somalia will charge your battery. because, if you can be changed only by reading a couple of books that I am sure their reviewers would poit out many mistkaes, then, seeing the open space and the moon would recharge your perverted minds.

till then take care!

Your Somali cousin Arawello

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Friend

Monday, January 22, 2001 - 08:48 am
To ImposterBuster (and all the advisors)

What is this harrasment on TLG? There are many other people debating with MadMac, why don't you guys give them the same advice?

Or is it to attract attention to yourselves?

I don't come to this website that often but I might just start doing that for the sole purpose of putting your likes in their respective places. People like you give Islam a bad rap.

And, I'm at loss as to what exactly you are telling TLG. First, one of you says, "don't debate with this guy, leave it to the MEN". Now you (ImposterBuster) are sneaking in how arrogant TLG is. Like people won't get your underlying message! Clever clog!

NO BODY, I repeat, NO BODY, has a monopoly on how things should be done here. You have done your part by giving an "Islamic advice". It is upto TLG to take it or leave it. After all she is not obliged to follow your advice.

Give the girl a break!

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Arawello

Monday, January 22, 2001 - 09:31 am
Can islam become a monoploy??/ wondering.

look, I am not advocating for anyone not even myself who involved the discussion BUT would you allow me to explain something about Islam.

Islam creates an Ummah which a muslim cannot be separated or isolated from another muslim. It is a religion of brotherhood. what does that tell you??? that we should consult each other. there was a hadith which says that a muslim is mirror for onother muslim. can you explain that to me other than I should be able to advice a muslim sister on something that i think it should be done better?? are you undermining the value of islam that me at the other end of the computer telling TGL that she should do this because this is what is better to do.
Look, in case you do not understand, one important things is an oporation here TAQWA. My taqwa tells me that I should not stay quite and TGL's taqwa tells her that she should not sturborn, because an unknown somali woman tells her to do it.


And you said '' to attract the attention to yourselves'' what a cheap and classless statemnt is that. Do you think someone ( I personally) want to know anyone here. Oh dear, you must be very low class person nad you discusted me. BTW whose attention???? MM" attention or TGL's attention??? let me know cuz you puzzled me.
Whose attention do I want??/
About '' let the men answer the questions'' it is a very much Islamic manner that the questions concerned on fiqi issue should be answered by a male. they are available.

\
about me; I told TGL something that I thought/think it is valuable.
And let me repeat in case you missed out; be presice and concise.

I thought that should be the benefit for her not for myself.


I will repeat you discusted me for your low assumptions. And I do not like pple who goes under anew name to insult the pple.

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Arawello

Monday, January 22, 2001 - 09:34 am
Still wondering why you think I want attract attention.???? may be someone will enlighen this about me.

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Lady Jane

Monday, January 22, 2001 - 12:27 pm
Asalama caleykum wa raxmatullahi wa barakatu!

Okay I had a feeling that this page would be exclusive to TLG and MadMac...and that I would be the only person to boldly intrude..Alxamdullilah I'm not the first one to barge in...lol!

To MadMac:

There's very little I know about you;however,I have come across several of your postings and at times I've found them quite insightful,at times Blunt(a talent I can appreciate)and of course I can't forget how well you've mastered the art of argumentation!

On another note though,I agree whole-heartedly that those grey overcoats that coincedently all Turkish muslim women wear are indeed boring,bland and lack even the slightest hint of fashion innovation...at least for my tastes they are!

To TLG:

My sister...you will have to pardon me for being so impertinent.I just had to say something.Btw,I read that note that one anonymous idiot posted on the women's forums about the whole movie thing...my goodness I've never come across such gross stupidity all in one human being.I loved your retort though...lol!

You know how the saying goes..It ain't over till the fat lady sings..and with the Somalinet forums...you haven't really made a true appearance unless you've undergone at least half a dozen character assasinations simply because you spoke your mind and what you had to say be it about religion or otherwise,actually made a great deal of sense...Especially if you're a WOMAN!!

Okay,I must say this...why are Somali people(some,not all)so uptight about anything to do with the White man or the White race in general? I can understand that we come from worlds that vastly contrast eachother,but as muslims aren't we supposed to present ourselves and our religion in a modest, non-judgemental and inviting manner???

Aren't patience,understanding,encouragement and support tools at the disposal of every muslim to be used unsparingly so that more people(muslims&non-muslims)may feel more welcomed by Islam and hopefully in due time less threatened by the outcome of their curiosity?

I am a muslim woman myself and I believe it is by mere chance, fate, destiny, kismath, calaf or whatever you want to call it that I am a muslim today.The only thing that I can claim to be mine is my right to practice my religion as Al-Khaaliq intended which is also still by His grace and not through any power or might of my own.

So what I'm saying is this..What in the world would make me think that I have an earned right through membership of the Islamic communitiy to have an air of superiority about myself? Furthermore,why is that through misguided norms set by confused and deeply ill individuals in our society I am suddenly entitled to have a Holier than Thou attitude towards any muslim that knows than less of the religion than I do and any non-muslim for that matter???

In essence,we are all born muslims and our Final fate even though it was predetermined 50,000 years before our birth,is decided by our actions as of the age of 15 which according to Islam is where the threshold of adulthood begins.And here's where I'm puzzled...why then do some of us still insist that we hold on to this superiority complex of ours..even though we had very little or nothing to do with growing up as muslims?

Referring back to Arawello's comment about Islam possibly being a monopoly in itself...I want to say that there a lot of muslims out there who are giving Islam a bad name...not that their actions can do anything to harm our already perfect religion,BUT like in monopoly when a player goes to jail there's always the chance that another player has a Get Out Of Jail free card and holds the key to their apparent freedom which is their choice and their's alone to grant or deny.

What I mean to say is that I've come across many muslims especially Somali muslims who will deny muslims and non-muslims alike the answers that they seek.This does not happen by a mere "NO," but as I mentioned before by reinstating that Holier than thou attitude once more.This is a sad sight indeed and has caused me much grief.

Do we not realize that without questions being asked there are really no answers? Do we not see that to ask a question is in essence to knock on a door to which you may or may not be denied access? I am of the conviction that we as muslims are constantly slamming doors shut on peoples' faces.

Where is the integrity and dignity in that?!
Furthermore,where is the piety in that?!!

The same goes for the oh so shamefully obvious segregation between muslim hijabis and muslim non-hijabis.We as muslims are thought to act out peacefully and logically towards changing wrong things happening in our surroundings if not then to speak out in kind words against the wrong actions of fellow muslims,if this still doesn't work we are told to migrate from such a place.We are not thought judge others for going astray or go as far as to revel in their misguidance.It maddens me fiercely that hypocricy so gracefully walk the circles of allegedly devout muslims.

I'm not sure how many of you read the article published in a Canadian newspaper on December 30th 2000 by Syed Waris Shere.Anyway,the article detailed attacks on Allah(SWT)and the Prophet(SAW).It is by far the most infuriatingly pathetic piece of writing I have ever laid my eyes on.For those of you who are wondering what the hell I'm talking about...I will be posting it later.For now I've obviously said enough.

Until next time,peace,love and craziness to you all!

Lady Jane.

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Friend

Monday, January 22, 2001 - 01:14 pm
Arawello

What is your problem? I wasn't talking to you. Or are you the imposter? Jeez. Mind your own business lady.

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TLG

Monday, January 22, 2001 - 05:00 pm
Asalaamu alaikum,

Friend, would you refrain from posting anything in my defense please? Since you obviously have no idea how things work here, let me inform you that there are people that thrive on your kind of response. And for God's sake, check your e-mail. Sis, i know your love me and all but sometimes anger makes us say things we don't intend to say. That is why I chose not to respond to ImposterBuster last night after I read the message.

Arawello, I think you misunderstood what friend was saying. She was not talking about you but the first Anonymous and the Imposterbuster. Please accept my apology on her behalf.

Lady J, thanks sis for your input and the beautiful insight into how we should behave as Muslims. This discussion is getting out of hand and going where it wasn't intended to go. but again, what is new on this forums eh? By the way, can you post the reference to that article you mentioned instead of posting the article itself?

ImposterBuster and the first Anonymous, I hope you are satisfied now that you exposed TLG's multiple personalities and created a discussion on the often dreaded "male" versus "female" phenomena.

Salaam.

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TLG

Monday, January 22, 2001 - 05:15 pm
Arawello, sis, I just re-read your message. You said, "And I do not like pple who goes under anew name to insult the pple." Let me just warn you that you shouldn't make any assumptions. The person that posted under "friend" is someone I know in real live, who does not come here that often.

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TLG

Monday, January 22, 2001 - 07:29 pm
ImposterBuster, I have this urge to go through your post line by line and reap it apart. But you know what, since you love to quote ahaadith out of context (like the way u used that hadith up there), let me quote one (in context) for you. The Prophet peace be upon him said something to the effect of the better person is the one who keeps quite even when s/he knows s/he is right in an argument. So, I guess i'll let you be.

By the way, you must have sooo much time on your hands. It is amazing how u went through all the messages in this forums to diagnose TLG's multiple personality disorder? Let me kindly add one thing u left out in your analysis. The other (perhaps the third) personality is a SARCASTIC one. How could u have missed this one? It is sooo obvious.

I should get out of here before I lose my patience- a pracious thing to lose!

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ImposterBuster

Monday, January 22, 2001 - 08:26 pm
Friend

Take it easy, don't loose your cool, if you do, blood flow will go more to your brain, less to your gut. Your gut, in order to process food needs a lot of blood flow, because the inner lining of your stomach is replaced once every 14 hours, in a sense your stomach eats itself. In that situation, when you take a bite of your favorite food, (and you seem like a Burger King customer) The stomach does not have enough blood to process food, so unwanted formats of food gets in your system including dangerous organisms that should have been blocked.
Now, you get stomach deseases, first of which begins as heartburn, followed by Ulcer and finally cancer.

So take it with a grain of salt.

Friend, TLG is a human, just like you and me. She has her weakness, and strength. Being female adds credibility to her words as she is the target of those with evil intentions. She is our flag, someone is out there bent on tearing her down, and I have as much right as you do, to speak my mind. When you point fingers, count how many of your fingers are pointing at you.

The TLG that I applaud when I read these threads is the first personality, the second personality needs advice, and if you happen to be a Muslim, I heard a hadeeth, which means, " The one who takes advice never loses"

Arawelo and those before her have good points. Every individual is shaped by the society in which they live. In North America, Freedom of thought connotes rebellion against God and all norms decent. Islam champions quite an opposite philosophy, ( Slavery to God) . Here is where the conflict of personalities lies. TLG has wonderful Islamic convictions which she so boldly defends, But if I am allowed to write my PhD thesis on this personality, I would like to show the effects of her environment on her views and actions, and her attempt to live as a muslim women embattled by family and Cyberfriends. She is at times being pulled to irreconcilable directions. In short I find it difficult to reconcile American assetiveness, freedom, pursuit of worldly happiness on one hand, and the Islamic humility, and modesty on the other hand. And I dare to say, specially when it comes to Muslim women.

can you help me figure out a solution

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Imposterbuster

Monday, January 22, 2001 - 08:32 pm
TLG

You are adorable!

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Arawello

Tuesday, January 23, 2001 - 07:28 am
TGL,

Sorry, sister, I did not mean to say that I know the person but just said it. And accept my apology about that. ( anyway, I think, as you told your freind, he/she needs to know a bit more about here)
I am regret the language I used but apology on that again.


Freind,

bro/sis,

You talk like the lady on the street. eh??/ do not you know TGL is a graduate and she can handle our critisims, though, there are no bad intentions from my side.
And who ever you called the advisers, I am one of them.


TGL,

sister, do not you think you are pulling your own legs when, you said to PG that do not judge Islam just what few ppl said. while that is true, at this particular time, it was not suitalbe. It was the time you should take the advantage of explaining the sense of community that Islam creates.

Anyways, though, I disliked to have an argument with a muslim sister, I think, we at leas had an experince from this.


Lady Jane,

sister that was good, though, there some point I am quite unsure whether I did really understand what you meant. BTW it was not me who said that there is a posiblity that Islam being a monopoly things. It was Friend's( above my last in put who asserted that), and I repeated a kind of disagreement. Because I do not beleave in that.

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Friend

Tuesday, January 23, 2001 - 09:40 am
ImposterBuster

What was that? a regurgitation of Physiology 101?
Glad you could give me a bit of information on what goes on in my stomach. BTW, the Burger King Sandwiches are the bomb! Particulary the chicken.You should try it.

TLG

No more "defense" posts from me. Infact this place is a bit too dry for my taste. But do you see how right I was about the attention thing? With all the do's, don'ts and critism, admiration and adorations abound!
Just two things.
First, people can't walk on a wall. You have to lie down for them to walk all over you. Be nice, but don't take crap. I know that whole moving to Somalia-or was it Palestine, Kashmir or Kosovo?-thing and wanting to save the world is applaudable but don't let people get away with things.
Second, watch out :)

Arawello

your reluctant apology is accepted. You said I talk like the lady on the Street. Well, I am a lady on the street somewhere.
So TLG is a graduate? Thanks for the revelation.

MadMac

Do you have anymore Questions for TLG?

Adieu to all,
Umm-dynamite.

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Friend

Tuesday, January 23, 2001 - 09:42 am
Hi, me again
Forgot to mention, Lady Jane, you are one honest person. Well said girlfriend.

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Arawello

Tuesday, January 23, 2001 - 10:09 am
Freind,

You know, In fact , it should be you who should be apologising because it was you who accused the poeple without proper understanding.
And I wonder, if TGL would like to enlighen you a bit about Islam.

And you repaeted your most discussting statement'' attention''Look whoever you are addressing to, it came from a dark mind.

Do you really understand that the advisers as you called where acting as brothers and sisters or does that anything to you?? For God's sake.

You seem to mis my point about the lady of the street. But acted again as one. Hope TGL helps you out. do you mind if I ask you what makes youthink you can defend TGL from me or anybody else here.

I am a muslim sister, and so anybody else here. Atleast those of us here do have a basic education of Islam ( except you, if you want I can prove to you, eh, )

Cool down. would you??/

TGL,

Sister, whoever this siter is, she is doing no good here. Her first post she made evrything like there are fighthings amongst us and not disagreements which can be solved just with petience.

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common

Tuesday, January 23, 2001 - 10:10 am
Hey there Friend
salaam
you think on your feet a lot friend
we should maybe take time to think through things no-one is invincible, you have been blessed i think with a quick mind, this could be as much as a downfall as a benefit.
self assured about confidence is a grand thing and it can beget distortion. You don't wanna be dragged on your face do you, right?, neither do i
It may be better for us to lower ourselves in humility, for the best of mankind did this
no disrespect intended, this advice is for me and you, and i need to hear it as much as you, i just wanna share some experiences with you.It is offered in the Quran a chance to reflect that no soul should walk on the earth with arrogance for it cannot render the earth obsolete nor reach the mountains in height. I had the pleasure of one day sitting underneath a snowcapped mountain under the sun, with a little stream running under my feet, then a ladybug came and rested on my hand, i looked at the lady bird, and looked at the mountain, and again repeated the look.This world has many aspects, big and small, i am a tiny part of this, Sometimes when i feel like i am great, i get this sudden rush of energy, i am young, i have health, what some would call reasonable looks, education, can rock clothes quite well, and you can almost feel unstopable with these things. I worked one night recently for two three hours maybe at this old persons home and saw emacasated and shrivelled bodies, lying helpless in extrement and demensia. The rise and fall of man isn't that long.. walls can't be walked on but they can be flattened. "We shall dispose of you two dependants mankind and Jinni... which of the favours of your Lord to ye deny?"Hope you get to read this post.Good lookin out
May Allah bestow blessings and loan you wisdom bountiful. Ameen

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TLG

Tuesday, January 23, 2001 - 10:18 am
Salaam ya'll

Arawello, my apologies sis.

Common, what can I say. You are adorable.

Umm-dynamite, you disappoint me. I'll deal with you later insha Allah.

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Arawello

Tuesday, January 23, 2001 - 10:19 am
Common,

maa shaa Allah. that was pretty good.

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Arawello

Tuesday, January 23, 2001 - 11:11 am
TGL,

with all due respect, do you mind if I ask you something. I have just read somewhere that you were saying that advice i good but not the way TGL' forums happened. then , wondering about that, I have looked through all the advice that came to you and I did realise that up untill PG said something wich you agree with anyway ( ask me if you do not undersatnd what I mean) those spoke to you eather they were in general or a brotherly advice, and me who said ' the brothers should answer these questions'. Sister, what went wrong???? I am thinking now, are those written in Somali really bad, I am not too sure about that but hope someone would say something about that.

Sister, I think, it is unnecesarry for some poeple to act on your behalf. and I am a bit surprised to see some new poeple here.

Please be calm and explain to me what went wrong, I do not want leave wonering why? why? yeh,
This is really a honest question.

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TLG

Tuesday, January 23, 2001 - 07:03 pm
Asalaamu alaikum,

Arawello, i'm also a bit supprised to see new people here. It is not like i'm saying to MadMac anything New. And it is not like he is asking anything New. My approach has been the same since I joined SomaliNet (two months ago).

Anway, can we drop this discussion now? It is taking a lil odd of a turn.
And I hope ImposterBuster will be wise enough not to respond to FRIEND.
And to all the advisors, jazaakumullahu khairan. Would you please let it be now. I pray this be the last that we hear of this issue.

Salaam.

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TLG

Tuesday, January 23, 2001 - 07:08 pm
By the way Arawello, you have my e-mail. Please use it if you need clarification on anything.

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ImposterBuster

Tuesday, January 23, 2001 - 08:09 pm
TLG

I love you, Allah bless you.

I hope I see you in Jannah,

Now I go at large

I ask you to forgive me if I hurt your feelings.


Arawelo

Thanks sis. I also love you, Allah bless you

My job is done, no imposter found. TLG one , wholesome, human, and above all a good sister.


Now, I disapear.

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ImposterBuster

Tuesday, January 23, 2001 - 09:21 pm
I forgot to say : INSHAALLAH, INSHAALLAH always.

Suratul Al Rahman, what a choice, what a place, and what a life.

May Allah, accept your effort, and mine.

Fee Amanillah

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MAD MAC

Wednesday, January 24, 2001 - 12:11 am
Friend
Any more questions for TLG. Hmmmm. Well, I'd like to know what she looks like and if she's single - you know, in case my woman gives me the heave ho. TLG what's your height, weight, and measurements??? Are you single??? Do you date??? Do you date Kufaar??? How about Kufaar white guys who's monthly salary is net over 5k? I already know Arawello doesn't date Kufaar - so I'm out with her.

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Idea

Wednesday, January 24, 2001 - 04:28 am
Why???? If we had had an answer for every question of Why that comes to our Minds, Life would have been easier, right? :-)
One of the reasons why i took a year of philosophy with my crazy philosophy prof was that I heard that once he gave a final examination on just a Single question: It said WHY???? all the students wrote pages n pages n pages answering that question except one student; he wrote Why Not!! He was the only one who got "A" in that semester.

I think sometimes it is good to leave certain questions unanswered if it leads to confusion.

People Can You All hear Me?????

I hope Sooooooooooooooooo :-)


MM,

waryaa...white boy...keep ur eyes to urself...lol

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TLG

Thursday, January 25, 2001 - 08:00 pm
Hey Galool, hows't going Cyber-Uncle? Where have you disapeared to? By the way, I remember someone saying to me, "I take it upon myself to offer whatever protection I can to my most favourite virtual niece". So, I need my uncle's protection now. Think you can help me out?

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TLG

Thursday, January 25, 2001 - 08:02 pm
Hey I was refering to protection from MadMac, lest you go bersek on others :)

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Sis Nuura

Friday, January 26, 2001 - 02:04 pm
I very delighted to see ours sisters discussing their faith, today most our sisters talk about shows, movies and beautify products, Allamdu lilaah lot of sisters are backing their roots Islam. So it’s better for me to know where on earth my sisters live. I’m in USA
VA. I have seen Sister TLG mentioning about the globe and mail so I can guess she in Canada, so what about sister Arawello and Idea if it’s private to make public you can simple ignored.

May Allaah save from harm our sisters evil action from Satan and humans

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Idea

Friday, January 26, 2001 - 04:46 pm
TLG,
lol...yeah u do need protection from MM...lol
and from the northly invasion of...what!!! Man, i forgot his weird expression...lol But i do remember smiling at it...and saying to myself...it i take that phrase to my father..will he be able to understand it too...lol

Sis Nuura,

If you like we can meet in the chatline. If that suits you...just say when?

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MAD MAC

Friday, January 26, 2001 - 11:48 pm
Allright it was a little humor. Trying to get everyone to lighten up a bit. When it comes to Islam you guys are more serious than a heart attack. I love you anyway though. While you are pretty arrogant in your beliefs there's no saying you aren't true to your convictions. There's something to be said for that.

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