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     | Friday, February 09, 2001 - 01:28 am I'm not the kind of guy that likes to say I told you so, but I told you so. Now we have Ariel Sharon as Prime Minister of Israel. I'm sure he will handle all the problems between the Israelis and the Palestinians with kids gloves. Yep, he's a real humanitarian. Hear some of his opening speeches?? Well, he wants to make peace, but first basically we have to kill all of the Palestinians. They're the true obstacle to peace. Blame Hamas and Arafat for bringing Sharon to power. They played right into his hands. The situation can now go from bad to worse. For reasons that are incomprehensible to me, the Palestinians have not yet figured out that the Cavalry is not going to come riding into town any day now. they are pretty much on their own, and there isn't anything that's going to hold the 800 pound Gorrilla back except for the restraints put on Sharon by Uncle Sam. So you'd better hope that the Bush administration knows how to get down and dirty with Israel.
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| | Friday, February 09, 2001 - 07:21 am mad mac, here you go again with your blaming games of the victims. sharon and the likes of him was always there to serve the masses (the so called the jewish settlers who live in the land of palestinian refugees). you to blame the palestinians people for what the likes of sharan and the people who elected him (the real terrorists) have done and still do to the people they robbed, killed and exiled is what you and the jews do best. who created hamas and the many other palestinian refugees-----the palestinian people themselves? that is absurd. mad mac, the jews and you say the palestinian people terrorize themselves. this is absurd; it is a cowardly act and wicked behavior at it’s highest. the jews and it's supporters always blame the innocent people in that area when they terrorize them; they don't have the guts to admit their wicked deeds, but they rather say i told you so. they did this to themselves. who elected sharon? the so called settlers, right? why because they don't want to see people demanding their land. these so called settlers do not want to give up what was given to them; they rather blame the victims. these are the people who say they ran from hilter. ! if we accept their case and those who support them, we would say hitler was right to blame the jews for what he did to them, but he had guts. he didn't say the jews people made him do what he did; he didn't make excuses for killing them like the israeli terrorists and those who support them are doing. if hilter would have killed so many of them, the palestinian people would not have suffered this way.
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| | Friday, February 09, 2001 - 03:06 pm Mad mac just shutup, you disgust me.
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| | Saturday, February 10, 2001 - 10:31 am Asad You're illogical diatribe, totally devoid of any analysis, instead clings to blaming "the jews" and talks about "wicked deeds" (If I ever used a phrase like this in one of my analytical reports I would be quickly replaced and judged a moron - this is political talk, not analytical talk). More babbling about Hitler and the now ancient history that got them there (none of the decision makers or other politicians who were active during the holocaust are alive today sahib). Of course you have a fatalistic attitude that the whole outcome is already pre-determined, so analysis and problem solving aren't neccessary anyway. Now, I didn't blame the victim. I specifically told all of you eggheads here back in September and October (remember back then) that if the Palestinians followed their violent course, this would cause a political backlash in Israel that would lead to a Sharon government. I then said that his election, based on his nefarious background, would lead to a heightened state of tensions and an increase in the level of violence, possibly including a general war. I said that the Palestinians should back off on the violence and press the political front, because they were making progress and Barak was getting ready to make some real concessions. Now, if you thought the "Jews" were bastards before, get ready for the fifth bout, here, live at the Middle East Collesium, the pound for pound champ, Israel, squares off against the Palestinian Authority. The Israelis have dominated the last four bouts, and the Palestinians are looking for revenge. Now down to Larry Merchant for some pre-fight analysis. "Mac, I gotta say I don't see how the Palestinians can win this one. The Israelis have a larger Army, far better trained and equipped, and led by their old reliable, vicious and aggressive leader, Ariel Sharon. I think this one's gonna be a blowout. And look at the odds posted by Vegas on this one, 97-1 against the PA. That's about as bad as I've ever seen. Mac, back to you." Well, there you have it fight fans. The experts have Israel dominating this one. Let's move ringside for round by round coverage.
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| | Saturday, February 10, 2001 - 10:42 am Salama... Mad-Cap-Mac: The Bull-Dozer's first test, plainly, went already. I am talking about the explosion. The one that exploded within 48 hours of his term. And the reaction? We are waiting. The butcherer promised his Yuhuud people to be patient till he forms a coalition government. By Yuhuud's law, that is left 44 days. So, now he is having an excuse to retaliate. And we supporters of Falastiiniyaan people are waiting. Also, someone, I think it was Liibanise {Lebanonese} P.M., told him so that the world is NOT the one he {Sharon} knew of '82. ____________________ Nabadeey!!
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| | Saturday, February 10, 2001 - 11:35 am "Asad You're illogical diatribe, totally devoid of any analysis, instead clings to blaming "the jews"" well, you don't see youR illogical diatribe of blaming the palestinian people and saying "Blame Hamas and Arafat for bringing Sharon to power." this is pure non-sense, but you think you are a good analyst. ;-) the hamas and arafat didn't elect sharan; the jews people (the so called settlers or should i say the occupiers of stolen land) elected him because they are terrorists. they want to stay and live in robbed land. they want someone who have their mentality who will continue to kill, and kick palestianin out of their land and make them refugees more and more. "and talks about "wicked deeds" (If I ever used a phrase like this in one of my analytical reports I would be quickly replaced and judged a moron - this is political talk, not analytical talk)." that is because your analytical reports and those who grade them have no morals. all they and you analys and do is how you can put the blame on where it should not be and anyone who disagree with you, you call him or her moran, stupid and ignorant. how wicked! ;-) "More babbling about Hitler and the now ancient history that got them there (none of the decision makers or other politicians who were active during the holocaust are alive today sahib)." the jewish people don't think what hitler did to them is an ancient. they tell us everyday what happened to them, but they want to hide what they are doing to others by shifting the blame from themselves. hitler was no hypocrite; he had the guts to kill people. the people who claimed to have scaped from him (his victims) and their children are nothing but wicked in doing the same things or worst action that is done to them on others. how can people who always remind us about what hilter did to them keep doing the same things he did to them or worst on others. the wicked thing is that these (the isreali terroists) have no guts; they are hypocrites. they keep blaming others. i wonder why hitler did what he did. again, if hilter would have killed so many of them, the palestinian people would not have suffered this way. ;-) "Of course you have a fatalistic attitude that the whole outcome is already pre-determined, so analysis and problem solving aren't neccessary anyway." i told you before, the only way to solve the problem is to put the blame on where it belongs and to give up stolen lands and return to their rightful owners. no justice; no peace. stop blaming the victims, because it is not going to work. the blame should be on the real terrorists here, the israeli people and those who support them. "Now, I didn't blame the victim." yes, you did. you are blaming the palestinian people. you said "Blame Hamas and Arafat for bringing Sharon to power." "I specifically told all of you eggheads here back in September and October (remember back then) that if the Palestinians followed their violent course this would cause a political backlash in Israel that would lead to a Sharon government. I then said that his election, based on his nefarious background, would lead to a heightened state of tensions and an increase in the level of violence, possibly including a general war. I said that the Palestinians should back off on the violence and press the political front, because they were making progress and Barak was getting ready to make some real concessions." here you go again employing name calling and keep blaming people and shifting the blame from the real terrorists. you can not even hide your lies. you say "if the palestinians follow their violent course". again, blame the israeli terrorists who violently kill, robbed and made many palestinian people refugees. if i take your home and kill your family and made others refugees and then i refuse for you to demand yours rights and call you terrorist, would that make me a victim or a villain. again, the real terrorists are the israeli people who choose or elect to occupy and live in stolen land and those who support them.
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| | Sunday, February 11, 2001 - 01:41 am Morals have no place in the debate. That is why your analysis is flawed. You seem to think that right or wrong have an impact on outcomes - as if the bad guys can't win. Thing again dude. History is replete with lots of cases of the bad guys winning, of injustice prevailing. I can't believe someone of your obvious intelligence can't figure that out. Now I didn't say anybody was right or wrong in this conflict. What I said was what the outcome would be if the Palestinians pursued their current course. And I was right. I would say that is pretty indisputable. When you analyze a problem, leave your morals at home - they are tainting your analysis. I have been stating the status of the problem and recommended solutions - not the way I would want it to be. What's the matter with you here? Think about it. This is not a discussion about how we would like to see things, this is a discussion about how things are. I don't think you (and more importantly the Palestinian Authority) understands exactly how precarious their situation is. If this situation spins out of control there's a very good chance that the Israelis, under a Sharon government, will drive the Palestinians out of the West Bank all-together. Sharon considers the Palestinians sub-humans, he would kill them all without a hesitation. The ONLY thing holding him in check is the US; he needs US economic support to maintain his state. Now more than ever the Palestinians need to back off or they may well find themselves on the East bank of the Jordan River looking Westwards. You might argue that this will lead to a fifth general Arab Israeli war (I would make thaat argument) and that in spite of some tactical advantages it would not be worth the cost. You might argue, as I would, that the Jews need to accept a multi-ethnic state in which the state is not of a Jewish nature, as I would, but rather a secular nature. You might argue, as I would, that the people who lost their homes and businesses must be compensated, since obviously there's no turning back the clock. But I'm not telling you here what I think SHOULD happen, I'm telling you what's going to happen. You guys just don't get it. That's why you keep getting your asses handed to you time after time. If Islam ever builds a state (highly unlikely but you never know) you need to hire some kufaar intelligence analysts to do your intelligence work for you (esspecially PREDICTIVE intelligence) cause you guys suck at it.
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| | Sunday, February 11, 2001 - 03:21 am "Morals have no place in the debate." without morals, debates (discussions) would be fruitless. "That is why your analysis is flawed." that is why your analysis is immoral (dishonest). ;-) "You seem to think that right or wrong have an impact on outcomes - as if the bad guys can't win. Thing again dude." what i'm pointing out here is that, the israeli terrorists are claiming (as you are claiming here) to be winning, but was hitler winning when he was killing the jewish people? you and the israeli terrorists are also claiming that it is the fault of palestinian people and if the palestinain people are killed, it is their fault. was the jewish people's fault for what hitler did to them? the moral issue here is that the isreali terrorists and those who support them are shifting the blame from themselves and putting the blame on their victims. They are saying they are winning and killing people because they are good guys and the palestinian people are the bad guys. "History is replete with lots of cases of the bad guys winning, of injustice prevailing. I can't believe someone of your obvious intelligence can't figure that out." again, history will repeat and we will know who will be the real winners. although hitler thought he was the good guy and winning when he was killing innocent people, he was no hypocrite. he had the guts not to make the kind of cheap excuses his victims are making now when they are doing the same things he did to them to others. "Now I didn't say anybody was right or wrong in this conflict." you blamed the palestinian people in situation they are in now. you said "Blame Hamas and Arafat for bringing Sharon to power." "What I said was what the outcome would be if the Palestinians pursued their current course. And I was right. I would say that is pretty indisputable." well, who made them victims? they are demanding their rights. i asked you: if i take your home and kill your family and made others refugees and then i refuse for you to demand yours rights and call you terrorist, would that make me a victim or a villain? "When you analyze a problem, leave your morals at home - they are tainting your analysis." you immorality is the thing that making you blind. i told you before, the only way to solve the problem is to put the blame on where it belongs and to give up stolen lands and return to their rightful owners. no justice; no peace. "I have been stating the status of the problem and recommended solutions - not the way I would want it to be." your solutions is not going to work. so stop blaming the victims, because it is not going to work. the blame should be on the real terrorists here, the israeli people and those who support them. "What's the matter with you here?" nothin' ;-) "Think about it. This is not a discussion about how we would like to see things, this is a discussion about how things are." yes, you and i can not solve the problem in that area. we are discussing about how things are. the israeli terrorists are saying the palestinian are the villains and they are blaming them. and you seem to agreeing with them. i'm saying it is the other way around. ;-) "I don't think you (and more importantly the Palestinian Authority) understands exactly how precarious their situation is." i understand that the isreali terrorists are wicked people. those people who live in the robbed land (the so called settlers or the so called holocaust survivors) want to annihilate innocent people and kick them out of their land and they will do anything to acheive their goal, even if they have to put the blame on the vitims. ;-) "If this situation spins out of control there's a very good chance that the Israelis, under a Sharon government, will drive the Palestinians out of the West Bank all-together." that is their wishful thinking, but i don't think these torrorists will enjoy it. ;-) "Sharon considers the Palestinians sub-humans, he would kill them all without a hesitation." i don't blame shoran for thinking like that. he is only serving what his people want. i wonder why hitler did what he to these people. i guess he knew how wicked they were/are in nature. again, if hilter would have killed so many of them, the palestinian people would not have suffered this way. even their own people tell about them and what kind of people they are. ;-) "The ONLY thing holding him in check is the US; he needs US economic support to maintain his state." that is funny. if it were not for US, they would not have continue to do what they do to the palestinian people. "Now more than ever the Palestinians need to back off or they may well find themselves on the East bank of the Jordan River looking Westwards." i told you before. the palestinian people have nothing to loose. they already lost, but they would not go down quietly. there is no such thing as turn the other cheek or we shall over come in their vocabulary. "You might argue that this will lead to a fifth general Arab Israeli war (I would make thaat argument) and that in spite of some tactical advantages it would not be worth the cost." whatever happens is going to happen and it is not what the isreali people will like. these wicked people love life more than anybody in the world and they will not enjoy. there will be more bloodshed in that area. no justice; no peace. "You might argue, as I would, that the Jews need to accept a multi-ethnic state in which the state is not of a Jewish nature, as I would, but rather a secular nature." as long as there is no justice; there is no peace. the isreali people (the so called settlers or should i say the occupiers of stolen land) will not sleep peacefull if and when the situation stays like this or gets worst. "You might argue, as I would, that the people who lost their homes and businesses must be compensated, since obviously there's no turning back the clock." well, i told you that the only way to solve the problem is to put the blame on where it belongs and to give up stolen lands and return to their rightful owners. no justice; no peace. "But I'm not telling you here what I think SHOULD happen, I'm telling you what's going to happen." i'm also telling you what is going to happen. ;-) "You guys just don't get it." lol "That's why you keep getting your asses handed to you time after time." lol------your assess. ;-) "If Islam ever builds a state (highly unlikely but you never know)" lol-------you never know. ;-) i can see the fear in you. ;-) "you need to hire some kufaar intelligence analysts to do your intelligence work for you (esspecially PREDICTIVE intelligence) cause you guys suck at it." lol-------you guys suck at it. ;-) i can tell you one thing we need and that is islam. when the muslims wake up from sleep and the help of Allah comes, there will be justice and although you said you never know, it is going to happen. it happened before, right? ;-)
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| | Sunday, February 11, 2001 - 05:03 am Asad Look, Allah is not going to intervene in the Middle East. There's not going to be some sudden turning to Islam. Most of you people can't figure out what that means anyway. Look at the discourse here on the net. Even amongst yourselves you can't reach consensus on lots of issues. If you ever built an "Islamic" state, it would have the same problems any other state does because people interpret things differently. It's inevitable. As for this conflict. I predict the peace process is going to ground to a halt. I predict the death toll of the Palestinians is going to climb exponentially. I predict that there will be no general war, becaus the Egyptians, Syrians, et al, don't really care about the Palestinians. I predict that if the level of violence climbs, more and more of the West Bank will be bulldozed and Settled by Israelis. In 6 months, when all these things have come to pass, I will remind you of this conversation - and enjoy doing it. Lastly, your comment on "the Jews" being "wicked people" is sick. This same kind of sentiment is what has brought the situation to where it is. The Jews will NEVER let their destiny fall in someone elses hands again because of just that kind of sentiment. They'll kill all of the Palestinians and 10 times that number of Arabs before they allow their fates to be held in someone elses hands. And since they are a nuclear state with serious a serious nuclear weapons arsenal, I wouldn't ruel out the possibility. I think Sharon is a dangrous man, and it will be hard for the moderates of the world to keep him in check. Attitudes and statements like yours entrench him further and give him ever more support. Sharon is trouble. We can always hope that Sharon will be in a position to facillitate some sort of agreement - but I don't think he wants it.
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| | Sunday, February 11, 2001 - 08:24 am MadMac, you disappoint me. I actually thought u were smarter than this. The similitude of you coming to a SOMALI ISLAMIC SITE and badmouthing Palestinians regardless of whether your claims are right or wrong is that of you going to NEW YORK IN A PREDOMINANTLY JEWISH NEIGBOURHOOD and saying, "What was hitler to do when you guys were so cruel and mean to him. I mean he used to wake up every morning and try to sell newpapers to you guys and you guys will just sneer at him and blah blah blah". Please. Would you be kind enough and excercise some of those brain cells that got you that "Good analyst" position with the USA army? And for our discourse on the net, as much as we seem to not get along, one thing we agree on is our contempt for the zionist regime. What is with us not reaching concensus on any issue? Who does it anyway? Even the zionist regime or your so called perfect system doesn't. So what is the big deal here. You know, I have more respect for you when say, "but why does Allah say this and not that" Coz that shows a sincere mind that is seeking. But on the Palestinian issue, you just leave a lot of suspicion in my mind! Anyway, why don't u leave us "eggheads" quarel and fight on our on issues. I mean, since you have your belief, political system and life in general "figured out" why not leave us alone. Are you suffering from the same syndrom your forefathers suffered from? Remember, "the white man's burden" syndrome?. Do you feel like u have a moral obligation to deliver us from our "backwardness"? Sheesh!
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| | Sunday, February 11, 2001 - 09:37 am "Asad Look, Allah is not going to intervene in the Middle East. There's not going to be some sudden turning to Islam. Most of you people can't figure out what that means anyway. Look at the discourse here on the net. Even amongst yourselves you can't reach consensus on lots of issues. If you ever built an "Islamic" state, it would have the same problems any other state does because people interpret things differently. It's inevitable." Allah did intervene what went on there before. Allah made the israeli suffer for their wickedness. there are many historical things happened there which were against and for the israeli people. Allah helps the oppressed against the oppressors when the oppressed follow and obey Allah. i don't know about what made pharaoh slave the israeli people, but Allah did intervened and safed the isaelis from the oppression. with the help of Allah, muslims ruled that land for centuries. when the muslims abandoned practice of islam, they didn't get help from Allah. as i said, i can tell you one thing we need and that is islam. when the muslims wake up from sleep and the help of Allah comes, there will be justice and although you said you never know, it is going to happen. it happened before, right? ;-) with the help of Allah, muslims ruled that land for centuries. in that area, i don't know about what made pharaoh slave the israeli people, but Allah did *intervened* and safed the isaelis from oppression, but i wonder why hitler did what he did to the jewish people. i guess he knew these people are in nature wicked people. at least, hitler had the guts to be terrorist; these jewish terrorists, in their cowordly acts, have no guts whatsoever. all they have is exucess.! if hitler used the kind of excuses the jewish terrorists and those who support them are using, would the jewish people understand? let me again give you breif history about that area and what the israeli people and how Allah dealt with them: for more than two thousand years the jewish people have incessantly struggled for socail justice and self-preservation, but when it comes to palestinian people, the jewish people here are the ones perpetuating injustices.! muslims saved jews many times from the christians and the jewish people found in islamic homes safe heavens, but as always, the jewish people are known to double-cross the muslims. the Qur'an is not the only book that give hints about the children of israel and their wicked ways. the Qur'an as well as their religious books are clear about their nature. Allah says they (the children of israel) turned away from worship of Allah, kindness to parents, kidred, orphans, needy; how rude they were to mankind, how they (all of them except few of them) gave up prayers and the giving of the poor-rate. Allah calls the children of israel in that ayah and says to them after they rejected him this: "you are backsliders". even their own books say this about them: "i have seen this people (the children of israel), and behold, it is a stiffnecked people"Ex 32:9). "thou art a stiffnecked people...from the day that thou didst depart out the land of egypt, until ye came unto this place, ye have been rebellious against the Lord". and forget not, how thou provokedst the Lord thy God to WRATH in the wilderness; from the day thou didst depart out of the land of egypt, until ye came unto this place, ye have been rebellious against the Lord. Also in horeb ye provoked the Lord to WRATH, so that the Lord was angry with you to have destroyed you. When I was gone up to the mount to receive the tablets of stone...the Lord said unto me:...thy people which thou hast brought forth out of egypt have corrupted themselves; they are quickly turned aside out of the way which i commanded them; they have made a molten image furthermore, the Lord spake unto me, saying, i have seen this people, and behold, it is a stiff-necked people. let me alone, that i may destroy them and blot out their name from under heaven(Dt. 9: 7-13). 'ye rebelled against the commandment of the Lord, your God, and ye believed him not, nor hearkened to his voice. ye have been rebellious against the Lord; and how much more after my death?...i know that after my death ye will utterly corrupt yourselves, and turn aside from the way which i have commanded you; and evil will befall you in the latter days; because ye will do evil in the sight of the Lord, to provoke him to angry through the work of your hands'(31:27-29) 'they mocked the messangers of God, and despised his words, and misused his prophets, until the wrath of the Lord arose against his people, till there was no remedy(2 Ch. 36:16) 'wherefore, will ye plead with me? ye have all transgressed against me, saith the Lord..your own sword has devoured your prophets, like a destroying lion (Je. 2:29-30). 'they were disobedient and rebelled against thee, and cast the law behind their backs, and slew they prophets(Ne 9:26)'...ye are the childern of them which killed the prophets....ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?...wherefore, behold, i send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes; and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some them shall ye scourge in your synagogues and perssecute them from city to city: that upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous abel unto the blood of zachariah, son of barechiah, whom ye slew between the temple and the alter.(mt. 23:31-36)." also, the Qur'an tells us about these people: the children of israel are the people who worshipped the calf; they are the people who claimed that fire will not touch them (3: 24); they are the ones who denied the truth out of envy (2:90); they are the ones who killed their own brothers (prophets) (2:61); the children of israel are the ones made to wonder in the wilderness(5:26). since most of the israelites were rebellious people, the curse of Allah were upon them, because they were infidels and Allah curses infidels(2:89). "...and struck upon them were abasement and poverty. and they drew on themselves wrath from Allah. this, because they were ever disbelieving in the signs of Allah and *slaying the prophets unjustly.* this, because they disobeyed and were ever transgressing" the Qur'an: 2:61. "As for this conflict. I predict the peace process is going to ground to a halt." i don't believe that isreali terrorists ever wanted peace. all they want is palestinian to go away quitly. as you told us, the isreali terrorists goal is the Israelis, under a Sharon government, to drive the Palestinians out of the West Bank all-together since its their wishful thinking, but i don't think these torrorists will enjoy it. as you said Sharon considers the Palestinians sub-humans, he would kill them all without a hesitation, so peace there were even peace in their mind. they want palestinian people sign "we shall over come", but that would not happpen. ;-) "I predict the death toll of the Palestinians is going to climb exponentially." as if the death toll has not climbed exponentially already, but the isreali terrorists and those who support them want to blame the victims for their situation. "I predict that there will be no general war, becaus the Egyptians, Syrians, et al, don't really care about the Palestinians." it is not that they don't care. yes, they don't want war, because like the palestinians and many millions of muslims are sleeping. they are not practicing islam so there is no help coming. they know that they can not win war. do you think the early muslims won wars in that area because they cared about palestinians? they won wars because they practiced the religion; then the help of Allah came. "I predict that if the level of violence climbs, more and more of the West Bank will be bulldozed and Settled by Israelis." that is the goal of the isreali settlers (or should i say israeli occupiers of stolen land). "In 6 months, when all these things have come to pass, I will remind you of this conversation - and enjoy doing it." i don't think these so called settlers (occupiers of stolen land) will enjoy it and sleep peacefully at nights. i predict they will see "terrorism" they have never seen before. Lastly, your comment on "the Jews" being "wicked people" is sick." don't blame me. their own books say these things. also, don't blame me if the they are wicked; blame themselves for being wicked. ;-) "This same kind of sentiment is what has brought the situation to where it is." this is the kind of cheap excuses i was talking about. the jews always blame other for their deeds. they never do wrong; if they do wrong, it is because what others said about them. ;-) "The Jews will NEVER let their destiny fall in someone elses hands again because of just that kind of sentiment. They'll kill all of the Palestinians and 10 times that number of Arabs before they allow their fates to be held in someone elses hands. And since they are a nuclear state with serious a serious nuclear weapons arsenal, I wouldn't ruel out the possibility. I think Sharon is a dangrous man, and it will be hard for the moderates of the world to keep him in check. Attitudes and statements like yours entrench him further and give him ever more support. Sharon is trouble. We can always hope that Sharon will be in a position to facillitate some sort of agreement - but I don't think he wants it. many jews in germany tried to abandon their jewish traditions, faith and usages and became entirely german, but as the official test of judaism now is not religious but racial, and as even those who have a jewish grand-parent are considered jews, they did not escape persecution by having been baptised or having became german in outlook. those jews who tried to germanise themselves (some even demonstratively repudiating their judaism are hit terribly hard), and many have committed suicide. the history of jewry is the history of human struggles." believe me, there will be pay back. "for the jewish people, specially, for sure, another curse would visit them sooner or later as it has---over in their history. ;-). the history of jews is full of them getting screwed. misery is their permanent national characterictis. as race, the jews, as mentioned in their books, are people who are addicted to greed, a special aptitude for money-making, corruption, aversion to hard work, lack of social tact and crime or objectionable act committed by any indivitual jew. horrors of jewish history, whether of remote past or recent as 1940's are well known, lamented by friends and gloated over by foes, but recognized and admitted by all. for ages, in the words of christian historian, "the hebrew history has been the same everywhere in which we miss the quality of agony". and a leading jew is said to have exclaimed, "if there are gradations in suffereing, israel has reached its hightest acme.". certaintly, there is no history so full of mournful pathos as theirs. and it is instructive, if also pathetic, to note that in the years 1938-39, with all the wealth and commerce and influence at their command, there are incessant refernces in their press to frighful persecution. and the beatings, the murders, the torture, the robbling, the blackmailing, the arrests and imprisonments and humilations, both public and private that are being perpetrated on them in several parts of civilized europe, only to turn back and do it the same things that has been done to them to others )the innocent palestinian people)! this persecution on the jewish by others (by the christians) were not religious; it is pre-eminently racial and no escape was possible even after the change of faith. for we are distincly told neither baptised jews nor even christian children or grand-children of baptised jews are immune from the raging scourge. They'll kill all of the Palestinians and 10 times that number of Arabs before they allow their fates to be held in someone elses hands. And since they are a nuclear state with serious a serious nuclear weapons arsenal, I wouldn't ruel out the possibility. I think Sharon is a dangrous man, and it will be hard for the moderates of the world to keep him in check. Attitudes and statements like yours entrench him further and give him ever more support. Sharon is trouble. We can always hope that Sharon will be in a position to facillitate some sort of agreement - but I don't think he wants it. many jews in germany tried to abandon their jewish traditions, faith and usages and became entirely german, but as the official test of judaism now is not religious but racial, and as even those who have a jewish grand-parent are considered jews, they did not escape persecution by having been baptised or having became german in outlook. those jews who tried to germanise themselves (some even demonstratively repudiating their judaism are hit terribly hard), and many have committed suicide. the history of jewry is the history of human struggles. as race, the jews as mentioned in their books are people who are adicted to greed, a special aptitude for eny-making, corruption, aversion to hark, lack of social tact and crime or objectionable act committed by any indivitual jew. horrors of jewish history, whether of remote past or recent as 1940's are well known, lamented by friends and gloated over by foes, but recognized and admitted by all. for ages, in the words of christian historian, the hebrew history has been the same everywhere in which we miss the quality of agony. and a leading jew is said to have exclaimed, if there are gradations in suffereing, israel has reached its hightest acme. certaintly, there is no history so full of mournful pathos as theirs. adn it is instructive, if also pathetic, to note tha tin the years 1938-39 with all the wealth and commerce and influence at their command, there are incessant refernces in their press to frighful persecution. and the beatings, the murders, the torture, the robbling, the blackmailing, the arrests and imprisonments and humilations, both public and private that are being perpetrated on them in several parts of civilized europe, only to turn back and do it the same things that has been done to them to others.! this persecution on the jewish by others were religious; it is pre-eminently racial and no escape was possible even after the change of faith. for we are distincly told neither baptised jews nor even christian children or grand-children of baptised jews are immune from the raging scourge. many jews in germany tried to abandon their jewish traditions, faith and usages and became entirely german, but as the official test of judaism now is not religious but racial, and as even those who have a jewish grand-parent are considered jews, they did not escape persecution by having been baptised or having became german in outlook. those jews who tried to germanise themselves (some even demonstratively repudiating their judaism are hit terribly hard, and many have committed suicide. the history of jewry is the history of human struggles. for more than two thousand years the jewish people have incessantly struggled for socail justice and self-preservation, but when it comes to palestinian people, the jewish people here are the ones perpetuating injustices. muslims saved jews many times and the jewish people found in islamic homes safe heavens, but as always, the jewish people are known to double-cross. the Qur'an is not the only book that give hints about the children of israel and their wicked ways. the Qur'an as well as their religious books are clear about their nature. Allah says they (the children of israel) turned away from worship of Allah, kindness to parents, kidred, orphans, needy; how rude they were to mankind, how they (all of them except few of them) gave up prayers and the giving of the poor-rate. Allah calls the children of israel in that ayah and says to them after they rejected him this: "you are backsliders". even their own books say this about them: "i have seen this people (the children of israel), and behold, it is a stiffnecked people"Ex 32:9). "thou art a stiffnecked people...from the day that thou didst depart out the land of egypt, until ye came unto this place, ye have been rebellious against the Lord". the Qur'an tells us about these people: the children of israel are the people who worshipped the calf; they are the people who claimed that fire will not touch them (3: 24); they are the ones who denied the truth out of envy (2:90); they are the ones who killed their own brothers (prophets) (2:61); the children of israel are the ones made to wonder in the wilderness(5:26). since most of the israelites were rebellious people, the curse of Allah were upon them, because they were infidels and Allah curses infidels(2:89). "with their centuries old record of crime and corruption, depravity and rebellion are debarred from Allah's All-embracing grace and mercy all together---yes there were some of them who did always the right things (those who followed the prophets of Allah). salvation however is not confined to any particular race or nationality as the curse is not confined to any particular race or nationality. in the Qur'an, however, there are many verses indicative of Allah's extreme solicitude for mankind in general, but for the children of israel in particular. Allah favoured the children of israel and preferred them above all the nations (2:47). the children of israel is the national designation of the jews." ....when they did not uphold this, hell broke loose on them, then they drew wrath (curse) from Allah. how many years did they wonder in the wilderness? their own books will tell you the years. ;-). also, their own books tell you about what kind of people they are: 'they were disobedient and rebelled against thee, and cast the law behind their backs, and slew they prophets(Ne 9:26)'...ye are the childern of them which killed the prophets....ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell? ;-). their own books say that moses said this: "i have seen this people (the children of israel), and behold, it is a stiffnecked people"Ex 32:9). 'they mocked the messangers of God, and despised his words, and misused his prophets, until the wrath of the Lord arose against his people, till there was no remedy(2 Ch. 36:16) "....i know that after my death ye will utterly corrupt yourselves, and turn aside from the way which i have commanded you; and evil will befall you in the latter days; because ye will do evil in the sight of the Lord, to provoke him to angry through the work of your hands'(31:27-29)."
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| | Sunday, February 11, 2001 - 12:00 pm Asad Look, my points are two-fold. I never blamed the Palestinians, I blamed their tactics. That's not the same thing. I've said all along that the Palestinians have been victimized here. But so is the dead skunk in the middle of the raod. That don't make him any less dead. The Palestinians can be dead right. My point here is that they are (and have been since 1948) misplaying their own hand. That's all Iäm saying here. Their tacticts are flawed. Secondly, you can't judge a whole group of people in one barrel. Not all Jews are wicked. That's stupid. It's like me saying all Somalis are animals because some of them dragged some bodies through the streets of Mogadischu (a clear violation of Islamic teaching). I know you wouldn't do anything like that and you're Somali. If you don't have any Jewish freinds you need to make some. It would be better for your own personal perspectives to learn that you can't judge by thr group. TLG Hey, I'm just saying the way things are. You are correct though, curing you guys of your "backwardness" on this subject is a Sysaphean task if ever there was one.
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| | Sunday, February 11, 2001 - 05:01 pm "Asad Look, my points are two-fold. I never blamed the Palestinians, I blamed their tactics. That's not the same thing." you want them to take what you called *tactics". the israeli terrorists love the palestinian people to sign: "we shall over come", but that is stupid and it is not going to happen. ;-) "I've said all along that the Palestinians have been victimized here." and are continued to be victimized by israeli terrorists and those who support them. to say that hamas and arafat made or are going to make the palestinian more vitims is stupid. ;-) "But so is the dead skunk in the middle of the raod. That don't make him any less dead. The Palestinians can be dead right." oppression is worst than murder (dying). to accept oppression is worst than death. "My point here is that they are (and have been since 1948) misplaying their own hand. That's all Iäm saying here. Their tacticts are flawed." and it is not about *tactics* of palestinian people that made them refugees; it is about the wicked people, the so called holocaust survivors doing what they do best. i wonder why hitler was hard on them. ;-) "Secondly, you can't judge a whole group of people in one barrel." their own books say the same things i'm saying. "Not all Jews are wicked. That's stupid."" but ALL the so called settlers or should i say occupiers of stolen land who want to continue to terrorize palestinian people are wicked people and those who suppor them. it is stupid to think these people are not wicked. ;-) "It's like me saying all Somalis are animals because some of them dragged some bodies through the streets of Mogadischu (a clear violation of Islamic teaching)." any somali who violates and terrorizes people is a wicked, especially if he or she blames their victims. ;-) "I know you wouldn't do anything like that and you're Somali." i'm no hypocrite. ;-) "If you don't have any Jewish freinds you need to make some. "It would be better for your own personal perspectives to learn that you can't judge by thr group." i'm talking about those jewish people who want to live in stolen land and those who support the zionist state (terrorist state). i rather be not friends with them. ;-)
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| | Sunday, February 11, 2001 - 09:43 pm Well that brings us back to where we were. I say the Palestinians need a peace movement because if they resort to arms they legitimize violent response. You problem is you don't understand what makes Israel tick politically. You're satisfied with giving it a label (terrorist) and leaving it at that. The "zionist" state is here to stay. There's nothing anyone can do to change that. The settlers on the west bank need to be withdrawn, I'm not disputing that. But the question is how are you going to get there. You cling to this idea that the Palestinians can drive the Israelis out with fear - in fact that just galvinizes them. If you understood how deeply the Jewish psyche is driven from the Rennassaince and the holocaust you can see how the threat of violence will never hve the desired result. On the contrary it continues to result in more and more land loss, more and more property loss and more and more death and violence. Of course it's all too late now anyway. If the Palestinians don't have the patience (and they don't) to undermine Sharon politically and see his replacement with someone more flexible, violence will beget violence and more and more Palestinians homes will be bulldozed in the middle o fthe night.
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| | Sunday, February 11, 2001 - 10:32 pm "I say the Palestinians need a peace movement because if they resort to arms they legitimize violent response." and i keep saying to you that the palestinian people will not sing "we shall over come". they will not go down quaitly. no peace; no justice. ;-) "You problem is you don't understand what makes Israel tick politically." do you understand what palestinian makes resist; refuse to accept, withstand, defy oppression? to them, oppression is worst than death. your problem is that you and the israeli terrorists keep expecting the palestinian people to sing "we shall over come" which will never happen. ;-) "You're satisfied with giving it a label (terrorist) and leaving it at that." again, if i take your home and kill your family and make others refugees and then i refuse for you to demand yours rights and call you *terrorist* if you don't sing we shall over come, would that make me a victim or a villain. again, the real *terrorists* here are the israeli people who choose or elect to occupy and live in stolen land and those who support them. "The "zionist" state is here to stay. There's nothing anyone can do to change that." that is the same things hitler said about his nazi state. he thought no one could do anything to his nazi state. ;-) "The settlers on the west bank need to be withdrawn, I'm not disputing that." well, that is what i have been tellin gyou and it is the only way for peace. "But the question is how are you going to get there." how? the same way you came in. if i invade your home, and you tell me to get out, would i need to know how to withdrow (how to leave the house)? ;-) "You cling to this idea that the Palestinians can drive the Israelis out with fear - in fact that just galvinizes them." i told you that palestinian people have nothing to loose that they have not already lost. since the israeli terrorists don't want to stop terrorizing the palestinian people (kids and women), the palestinian people will continue to resist and demand their rights. the palestinian people rather die than live in oppression. instead of singing "we shall over come", they will sing "no justice; no peace". "If you understood how deeply the Jewish psyche is driven from the Rennassaince and the holocaust you can see how the threat of violence will never hve the desired result. On the contrary it continues to result in more and more land loss, more and more property loss and more and more death and violence." what i don't understand is how can people who always remind us about what hilter did to them keep doing the same things he did to them or worst on others! isn't that wicked? what is more is that thing these the isreali terroists have no guts; they are hypocrites. the people who claimed to have scaped from hilter (his victims) and their children are nothing but wicked in doing the same things or worst action that is done to them on others. they keep blaming others. i wonder why hitler did what he did. if only hilter would have killed so many of them, the palestinian people would not have suffered this way, right? ;-) "Of course it's all too late now anyway." yes, these people can not help but to be wicked. as their own books (moses) say: ""i know that after my death ye will utterly corrupt yourselves, and turn aside from the way which i have commanded you; and evil will befall you in the latter days; because ye will do evil in the sight of the Lord, to provoke him to angry through the work of your hands'(31:27-29)." they were disobedient and rebelled against thee, and cast the law behind their backs, and slew they prophets(Ne 9:26)'...ye are the childern of them which killed the prophets....ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell? ;-). "i have seen this people (the children of israel), and behold, it is a stiffnecked people"Ex 32:9). 'they mocked the messangers of God, and despised his words, and misused his prophets, until the wrath of the Lord arose against his people, till there was no remedy(2 Ch. 36:16). with their centuries old record of crime and corruption, depravity and rebellion are debarred from Allah's All-embracing grace and mercy all together---yes there were some of them who did always the right things (those who followed the prophets of Allah). salvation however is not confined to any particular race or nationality as the curse is not confined to any particular race or nationality. in the Qur'an, there are many verses indicative of Allah's extreme solicitude for mankind in general, but for the children of israel in particular. Allah favoured the children of israel and preferred them above all the nations (2:47). the children of israel is the national designation of the jews." ....when they did not uphold this, hell broke loose on them, then they drew wrath (curse) from Allah. how many years did they wonder in the wilderness? their own books will tell you the years. ;-). "i have seen this people (the children of israel), and behold, it is a stiffnecked people"Ex 32:9). "thou art a stiffnecked people...from the day that thou didst depart out the land of egypt, until ye came unto this place, ye have been rebellious against the Lord". and forget not, how thou provokedst the Lord thy God to WRATH in the wilderness; from the day thou didst depart out of the land of egypt, until ye came unto this place, ye have been rebellious against the Lord. Also in horeb ye provoked the Lord to WRATH, so that the Lord was angry with you to have destroyed you. When I was gone up to the mount to receive the tablets of stone...the Lord said unto me:...thy people which thou hast brought forth out of egypt have corrupted themselves; they are quickly turned aside out of the way which i commanded them; they have made a molten image furthermore, the Lord spake unto me, saying, i have seen this people, and behold, it is a stiff-necked people. let me alone, that i may destroy them and blot out their name from under heaven(Dt. 9: 7-13). 'ye rebelled against the commandment of the Lord, your God, and ye believed him not, nor hearkened to his voice. ye have been rebellious against the Lord; and how much more after my death?...i know that after my death ye will utterly corrupt yourselves, and turn aside from the way which i have commanded you; and evil will befall you in the latter days; because ye will do evil in the sight of the Lord, to provoke him to angry through the work of your hands'(31:27-29) 'they mocked the messangers of God, and despised his words, and misused his prophets, until the wrath of the Lord arose against his people, till there was no remedy(2 Ch. 36:16) 'wherefore, will ye plead with me? ye have all transgressed against me, saith the Lord..your own sword has devoured your prophets, like a destroying lion (Je. 2:29-30). 'they were disobedient and rebelled against thee, and cast the law behind their backs, and slew they prophets(Ne 9:26)'...ye are the childern of them which killed the prophets....ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?...wherefore, behold, i send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes; and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some them shall ye scourge in your synagogues and perssecute them from city to city: that upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous abel unto the blood of zachariah, son of barechiah, whom ye slew between the temple and the alter.(mt. 23:31-36)." "If the Palestinians don't have the patience (and they don't) to undermine Sharon politically and see his replacement with someone more flexible, violence will beget violence and more and more Palestinians homes will be bulldozed in the middle o fthe night." again, blaming the palestinian people is what you and the israeli terrorists do best. how wicked! i sharon and the likes of him are only serving what massas of israeli people want. i tell you that hitler knew how wicked these people were in nature. ALL the so called settlers or should i say occupiers of stolen land want to continue to terrorize palestinian people and those who suppor them can not do but propagate cheap excuses and blaming gates. they think blaming the innocent people is going to stick while the fact is clear. they don't have the guts to admit their wicked deeds; they rather shift the blame from themselves. these so called settlers do not want to give up what was given to them; they rather blame the victims. these are the people who say they ran from hilter. ! if we accept their case and those who support them, we would say hitler was right to blame the jews for what he did to them, but he had guts. he didn't say the jews people made him do what he did; he didn't make cheap excuses for killing them like the israeli terrorists and those who support them are doing.
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| | Monday, February 12, 2001 - 07:50 am Sahib I'm not blaming them. I just fill in the pieces of the puzzle. A leads to B leads to C. And I'm right. I know what will work and what won't. You don't. That's obvious. I told you in September what was going to happen - you told me I was full of it. Now I'm telling you what's going to happen again, you still aren't listening. I've told youhow the Palestinians can achieve their objectives, you don't listen. All the babling in the world about wickedness, right, wrong, etc. isn't going to change the fact that I'm right and your wrong. As for the electorate in Israel. First of all, that electorate is hardly monolithic. There is a large swing vote. It votes conservative when it feels imperiled and it votes liberal when it feels secure. There are, of course, some Jews who actually care about "the books." There aren't many. The Israelites are westerners in orientation. The Hasidic population is relatively small. That's the population that cares about it's "books". They're freak shows, but there just aren't enough of them to tip the scales. It's the mainstream voter, the swing voter, that the Palestinians need. Alas they haven't figured this out. If the Palestinians had displayed some restraint, right now the peace process would be continuing, the Israelis would have conceded East Jerusalem, most or all of the West Bank, and the US probably owuld have provided Palestine compensation for property loss. Now the Palestinians are going to get: a. More property stolen b. More dead Palestinians Lastly, you maintained that Hitler thought his empire was going to last. And you are correct. However that's where the analogy ends. Israel has something Hitler didn't - Nuclear weapons. The great insurance policy. If all of the Arab states combined all of their powers, if they modernized their pathetic armies, and if they established an effective combined command and control structure, attacked Israel and were about to be successful then Israel would nuke 'em. Since the Arabs know this, and since they are never going to develop an effective command and control structure anyway, you can see how Israel's demise does not appear to be on the horizon.
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| | Monday, February 12, 2001 - 08:43 am "Sahib, I'm not blaming them." yes, you are. lying is not going to help you. dishonest in debates (discussions) is no good.;-) "I just fill in the pieces of the puzzle. A leads to B leads to C. And I'm right." and i told you A (israeli terrorists should be blamed) B (palestinian people) are innocent. C (no justice; no peace). A-i take your home by force; B-when you demand it back; C-i kill you. who is responsible for this violence? ;-) "I know what will work and what won't. You don't. That's obvious." you think singing "we shall over come" will work, but i know that palestinian people will not do that. they know that oppression is worst than murder. ;-) "I told you in September what was going to happen - you told me I was full of it. Now I'm telling you what's going to happen again, you still aren't listening. I've told youhow the Palestinians can achieve their objectives, you don't listen. All the babling in the world about wickedness, right, wrong, etc. isn't going to change the fact that I'm right and your wrong." looks like you are the one who is not hearing. i also told you that what the israeli terrorist's aim was/is/will be. it does not matter if the palestinian people demand or not. these wicked people will not rest with their violence untill they drive out palestinian people and bulldoze and kill and replace them more jewish settlers there. i told you that was the goal of the isreali settlers (or should i say israeli occupiers of stolen land), but i also told you that i don't think these so called settlers (occupiers of stolen land by force) will enjoy it and sleep peacefully at nights. i predict they will see "terrorism" they have never seen before. terrorism begets terrorism. this fact is not going to change. ;-) "As for the electorate in Israel. First of all, that electorate is hardly monolithic. There is a large swing vote. It votes conservative when it feels imperiled and it votes liberal when it feels secure." it does not matter. how do you think you will enjoy living in homes where kids and women were driven out by force? people who live in the robbed land and those who support them are the same. "There are, of course, some Jews who actually care about "the books." There aren't many. The Israelites are westerners in orientation. The Hasidic population is relatively small. That's the population that cares about it's "books". They're freak shows, but there just aren't enough of them to tip the scales. It's the mainstream voter, the swing voter, that the Palestinians need." it does not matter if they claim to be religious or not; they are still wicked. they promote terrorism and enjoy the fruits of it. ;-) "Alas they haven't figured this out." i don't discriminate. they are the same to me. i know them to be wicked. if they were not wicked, they would not live in robbed homes and watch kids and women oppressed. ;-) "If the Palestinians had displayed some restraint, right now the peace process would be continuing, " if the israeli terrorists would just stop oppressing innocent people, there would have been peace. ;-) "the Israelis would have conceded East Jerusalem, most or all of the West Bank, and the US probably owuld have provided Palestine compensation for property loss." that the cheap excuse i'm talking about. if israeli terrorists would give up the robbed land by force and US stopped supporting terrorist state, there would be justice. "Now the Palestinians are going to get: a. More property stolen b. More dead Palestinians" and it is not their fault; it is the fault of the israeli terrorists and those who support them, right? ;-) "Lastly, you maintained that Hitler thought his empire was going to last. And you are correct." just like the israeli terrorists think their zionist state would last. "However that's where the analogy ends." there will be changes, like it or not. ;-) "Israel has something Hitler didn't - Nuclear weapons. The great insurance policy. "If all of the Arab states combined all of their powers, if they modernized their pathetic armies, and if they established an effective combined command and control structure, attacked Israel and were about to be successful then Israel would nuke 'em. Since the Arabs know this, and since they are never going to develop an effective command and control structure anyway, you can see how Israel's demise does not appear to be on the horizon. " are the israeli terrorists use nuclear weapons in their own back yard? what an insurance. ;-) if pakistan build their own nuclear weapons, do you think israeli neighbors would not in the future? do you think there would be always israeli/zionist domination in that area? ;-). again, you must realize that terrorism begets terrorism. for sure, there will be pay backs sooner or later or no one will sleep peacefully in their areas.
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| | Monday, February 12, 2001 - 10:10 am "To seek out that which was lost..." We present this Information as a Service to our readers... We are in a process here of sifting through Information.. for the Purpose of being Able to View the Big picture. This can not be accomplished without the use of other peoples publications.. It is impossible for us to agree with every view expressed in these works.. some of which are quite Inflammatory And even downright HATEFUL. I believe it important when presenting this material.. to leave it intact without Alteration. This information seems a bit Reactive and Racist. Kinda hard to avoid sometimes. But Racism is not a good defense against Racism...It is a lot about action and reaction.... Example... When a pendulum is moved to one extreme it will have the tendency to go to the opposite extreme before eventually coming to REST. In other words.. what you are about to read are other peoples strong and often quite inflammatory Reactions.. to a Hateful and very destructive Belief System.. The believers of which, intent upon World Dominion and enslaving the masses, are following a carefully planned and systematic scheme.. seemingly unconcerned about the Reproach and often Violent anger brought down upon the Whole of their people as a Consequence. Actually it seems to serve their twisted purpose! The basis of this belief is All non Jews are subhuman and are to be exploited (milked or beeved). When these folks get Irate and try to fight back they naturally see the enemy as being all "Jews" and not merely their Corrupt leaders.. Thus these leaders would use IaHUeH's people as a shield to further their wicked ends. When attacked, the people tend to stick closer together.. According to what they are told to believe for a non-jew to confront a Jew is like Blasphemy... this makes it harder to Isolate the very Serious problem! It turns into a vicious cycle of destruction. And has caused the unnecessary Suffering and Death to Millions upon Millions of People... all for the benefit of a few. It seems that the only effective Solution must come from the "Jewish" people themselves.. but they still aren't listening.. because they are told that whenever someone even so much as mentions "Multi-national Banker" that it is because that person is an anti-semite and wants to Murder all "Jews" everywhere! I wonder how many millions of dollars have been spent Zionism and Zionist State in order to keep down innocent people for the benefit of a few. What world famous men said about these Jews and their Zionism mentality: "They think they're bringing heaven, but actually they are messengers of the devil." Israeli Prime Minister, Shimon Peres, talking about Orthodox Jewish Rabbis on CNN, November 14, 1995 We found this at "http://www.stormfront.org/jewish/antisemite.html" and have recieved some heavy criticism for publishing it.. Introduction The Jews are the only people in the world who have found hostility in every country in which they settled in any numbers. The big question is - WHY? Today it is taught in the schools that "Anti-Semitism" began in Germany in the 1930s after which they were deported. What is not studied is the fact that at one time or other the Jews have been expelled from every nation in Europe! When the Jews first began to immigrate to America the early colonialists in New York, Charleston and Savannah tried to ban their entry. Benjamin Franklin pleaded with the members of the Continental Congress to enter a specific ban against Jewish immigration into the U. S. Constitution to bar them for all time to come. The Jews claim that they are "only" a religion. The truth is that the Jews are a RACE. Less than 30% are members of any Synagogue. Whether they are Orthodox religious, atheists, capitalists or communists - they still claim to be Jews - members of the Jewish race! Every race has inherited traits. In the case of the Jews they include trading, money-changing, usury, and a loathing for "productive labor" which is scorned as beneath the dignity of the Jews in their "bible" called "THE TALMUD." The Jews have not changed since the days when Jesus Christ took up a whip and drove "the money changers out of the Temple." Jews have always united to form monopolies. Today they control all the department store chains and speciality shops along with the lucrative jewelry and animal fur trade. Jews dominate the fields of all precious metals such as gold, silver, platinum, tin, lead, etc. They will always ban together to drive Gentile competitors out of business. Today America is being flooded with Jewish immigrants from Russia and even 20,000 per year leave Israel for the U. S. - all with dollar signs in their eyes. Jews have used their vaunted money-power to seize control of the Democratic Party and constitute over 50% of all its financial contributions. Today they are buying up more and more major U. S. companies. While only 3% of the population, the Jews control over 25% of the nation's wealth and this percentage rises every year. They are the only racial group totally organized to work for political domination over America. Opposition to the Jews did not begin in Germany but dates back before the birth of Christ over 2,000 years ago! Study the statements made by "The world's greatest men." They reveal why the "wandering Jews" have made enemies out of every host country that ever accepted them. CICERO (Marcus Tullius Cicero). First century B.C. Roman stateman, writer. "Softly! Softly! I want none but the judges to hear me. The Jews have already gotten me into a fine mess, as they have many other gentleman. I have no desire to furnish further grist for their mills." (Oration in Defense of Flaccus) Cicero was serving as defense counsel at the trial of Flaccus, a Roman official who interfered with Jewish gold shipments to their international headquarters (then, as now) in Jerusalem. Cicero himself certainly was not a nobody, and for one of this stature to have to "speak softly" shows that he was in the presence of a dangerously powerful sphere of influence. and on another occasion Cicero wrote: "The Jews belong to a dark and repulsive force. One knows how numerous this clique is, how they stick together and what power they exercise through their unions. They are a nation of rascals and deceivers." SENECA (Lucius Annaeus Seneca). First century Roman philosopher. "The customs of that most criminal nation have gained such strength that they have now been received in all lands. The conquered have giveN laws to the conquerors." (De Superstitione) DIO CASSIUS. Second century Roman historian. Describing the savage Jewish uprising against the Roman empire that has been acknowledged as the turning point downward in the course of that great state-form: "The Jews were destroying both Greeks and Romans. They ate the flesh of their victims, made belts for themselves out of their entrails, and daubed themselves with their blood... In all, 220,000 men perished in Cyrene and 240,000 in Cyprus, and for this reason no Jew may set foot in Cyprus today." (Roman History) DIODORUS SICULUS. First century Greek historian.Observed that Jews treated other people as enemies and inferiors. "Usury" is the practice of lending money at excessive interest rates. This has for centuries caused great misery and poverty for Gentiles. It has brought strong condemnation of the Jews! BERNARDINO OF FELTRO. 15th century Italian priest. A mild man who extolled patience and charity in normal circumstances, he described himself as a "barking dog" when dealing with Jews: "Jewish usurers bleed the poor to death and grow fat on their substance, and I who live on alms, who feed on the bread of the poor, shall I then be mute before outraged charity? Dogs bark to protect those who feed them, and I, who am feed by the poor, shall I see them robbed of what belongs to them and keep silent?" (E. Flornoy, Le Bienbeureux Bernardin the Feltre) AQUINAS, THOMAS, Saint. 13th century scholastic philosopher. In his "On the Governance of the Jews," he wrote: "The Jews should not be allowed to keep what they have obtained from others by usury; it were best that they were compelled to worked so that they could earn their living instead of doing nothing but becoming avaricious." HILAIARE BELLOC, in the book THE JEWS, page 9 "There is already something like a Jewish monopoly in high finance ... There is the same element of Jewish monopoly in the silver trade, and in the control of various other metals, notably lead, nickel, quicksilver. What is most disquieting of all, this tendency to monopoly is spreading like a disease." H. H. BEAMISH, in New York Speech, October 30, 1937 "The Boer War occurred 37 years ago. Boer means farmer. Many criticized a great power like Britain for trying to wipe out the Boers. Upon making inquiry, I found all the gold and diamond mines of South Africa were owned by Jews; that Rothschild controlled gold; Samuels controlled silver, Baum controlled other mining, and Moses controlled base metals. Anything these people touch they inevitably pollute." W. HUGHES, Premier of Australia, Saturday Evening Post, June 19, 1919 "The Montefiores have taken Australia for their own, and there is not a gold field or a sheep run from Tasmania to New South Wales that does not pay them a heavy tribute. They are the real owners of the antipodean continent. What is the good of our being a wealthy nation, if the wealth is all in the hands of German Jews?" POPE CLEMENT VIII "All the world suffers from the usury of the Jews, their monopolies and deceit. They have brought many unfortunate people into a state of poverty, especially the farmers, working class people and the very poor. Then as now Jews have to be reminded intermittently anew that they were enjoying rights in any country since they left Palestine and the Arabian desert, and subsequently their ethical and moral doctrines as well as their deeds rightly deserve to be exposed to criticism in whatever country they happen to live." NESTA WEBSTER, In World Revolution, The Plot against Civilazation, page 163 "Since the earliest times it is as the exploiter that the Jew has been known amongst his fellow men of all races and creeds. Moreover, he has persistently shown himself ungrateful... The Jews have always formed a rebellious element in every state." FRANZ LISZT, famed composer quoted in Col. E. N. Sanctuary's Are These Things So?, page 278 "The day will come when all nations amidst which the Jews are dwelling will have to raise the question of their wholesale expulsion, a question which will be one of life or death, good health or chronic disease, peaceful existence or perpetual social fever." JESUS CHRIST, speaking to the Jews in the Gospel of St. John, VIII:44 "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lust of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is not truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar and the father of it. - then answered the Jews - " (which makes it clear that Christ was addressing the Jews.) MARTIN LUTHER, Table Talk of Martin Luther, translated by William Hazlet, page 43 "But the Jews are so hardened that they listen to nothing; though overcome by testimonies they yield not an inch. It is a pernicious race, oppressing all men by their usury and rapine. If they give a prince or magistrate a thousand florins, they extort twenty thousand from the subjects in payment. We must ever keep on guard against them." REV. GORDON WINROD, in his book The Keys to Christian Understanding, pages 114 - 115 "Judaism does not know Jesus Christ. Judaism hates Jesus Christ. When St. Paul was in Judaism, before he was converted to Christianity, he hated Jesus Christ and persecuted Christians and Christianity." Paul said: "You have heard of my earlier career in Judaism - how furiously I persecuted the Church of God, and made havoc of it; and how in devotion to Judaism I out-stripped many men of may own age among my people, being far more zealous than they for the tradition of my forefathers." (Gal. 1:13, 14, Weymouth Translation) While in Judaism, Paul persecuted Christians because of his intense hatred for Christians and because of his conformity to the tradition of the fathers. This shows that the tradition of teachings of Judaism are filled with hate for Christians. Few people know of this because they do not carefully read their Scriptures and because of the great pains which Jews have take to deceive the Christians. Care has been exerted by the Jews to hide their ECONOMIC-POLITICAL conspiracy for complete world domination UNDER high sounding words that have a "RELIGIOUS" ring in the ears of Christians. The Jews use such "religious" sounding words as "the Jewish faith," "the Jewish religion," "Jewish spiritual values," "Jewish religious doctrines," and like phrases which deceive and lead the unlearned into total equanimity. Behind this mask of religiosity stands a complete plan for world government, world power, world conquest, a Jewish kingdom of this world, and the destruction of Christianity. REV. WILLIAM S. MITCHELL of Philadelphia, quoted in Count Cherep-Spiridovich's book The Secret World Government, page 194 "If there is an ingrate in history, it is the Jew. In this land which befriended him he as conspired, plotted, undermined, prostituted and corrupted and (hiding to this hour behind the braver screen of other folks), dares to contrive and scheme the death of every Christian principle which has protected him." ST. JUSTIN, martyr stated in 116 A. D. "The Jews were behind all the persecutions of the Christians. They wandered through the country everywhere hating and undermining the Christian faith." ST. JOHN, Gospel of St. John VII:1 "After these things Jesus walked in Galilee: for he would not walk in Jewry because the Jews sought to kill him." M. H. DE HEEKELINGEN, in Israel: Son Passe, Son Avenir "The former Rabbi Drach, converted to Catholicism, says that the Talmud contains "a large number of musing, utterly ridiculous extravagancies, most revolting indecencies, and, above all, the most horrible blasphemies against everything which the Christian religion holds most sacred and most dear." "In the matter of the translation of the Talmud by non-Jews, we have always preferred that of Luzsensky, whose accuracy has been established by the Courts. In 1923, the Public Prosecutor of Hungary caused his Hungarian Talmud to be seized on account of "attack on public morals" and "pornography." In delivering its verdict, the Court declared 'INTER ALIA:' "The horrors contained in the translation of Alfred Luzsensky are to be found, without exception, in the Talmud. His translation is correct, in that it renders these passages, which are actually to be found in the original text of the Talmud, after their true meaning." QUINTAS SPETIMUS FLORENS TERTULLIAN (160 - 230 A. D.) Latin Church Father "The Jews formed the breeding ground of all anti-Christian actions." REV. MARTIN LUTHER, sermon at Eisleben, a few days before his death, February, 1546 "Besides, you also have many Jews living in the country, who do much harm... You should know the Jews blaspheme and violate the name of our Savior day for day... for that reason you, Milords and men of authority, should not tolerate but expel them. They are our public enemies and incessantly blaspheme our Lord Jesus Christ, they call our Blessed Virgin Mary a harlot and her Holy Son a bastard and to us they give the epithet of changelings and abortions. Therefore deal with them harshly as they do nothing but excruciatingly blaspheme our Lord Jesus Christ, trying to rob us of our lives, our health, our honor and belongings." MARIA THERESA, Queen of Hungary and Bohemia (1771 - 1789) "Henceforth no Jew, no matter under what name, will be allowed to remain here without my written permission. I know of no other troublesome pest within the state than this race, which impoverished the people by their fraud, usury and money-lending and commits all deeds which an honorable man despises. Subsequently they have to be removed and excluded from here as much as possible." (The Universal Jewish Encyclopedia states that "The Talmud is the real "bible" of the Jews and that it supersedes the Old Testament. This volume has been condemned down through the ages for preaching hatred for Christ and all Christians. Read "THE TALMUD UNMASKED" for the full shocking details.) DIDEROT, DENIS. 18th century French scholar. His famous ENCYCLOPEDIE, the bible of the pre-revolutionary French "enlightenment," has often been complained of by Jewish writers as 'anti-Semitic.' Some of Diderot's other writings are likewise unfriendly: "And you, angry and brutish people, vile and vulgar men, slaves worthy of the yoke [Talmudism] which you bear ... Go, take back your books and remove yourselves from me. (LA MOISADE) [The Talmud] taught the Jews to steal the goods of Christians, to regard them as savage beasts, to push them over the precipice ... to kill them with impunity and to utter every morning the most horrible imprecations against them. (JUIFS) NASTA WEBSTER, in Secret Societies and Subversive Movements, page 370 "The Jewish conception of the Jews as the Chosen People who must eventually rule the world forms indeed the basis of Rabbinical Judaism... The Jewish religion now takes its stand on the Talmud rather than on the Bible." F. TROCASE, in Jewish Austria "No obstacle discourages them; they persevere throughout the world, throughout the centuries, the unity of their race. The Talmud has given them a powerful organization which modern progress has been unable to change. Deep, ineradicable hatred of everything that is not Jewish stimulates them in war which they wage against Christian Society, which is too divided to be able to fight with the necessary energy." COUNT HELMUTH VON MOLTKE, Prussian general "The Jews form a state, and, obeying their own laws, they evade those of their host country. The Jews always consider an oath regarding a Christian not binding. During the Campaign of 1812 the Jews were spies, they were paid by both sides, they betrayed both sides." MOHAMMED, in the Koran "Whoever is a friend of a Jew, belong to them, becomes one of them, God cannot tolerate this mean people. The Jews have wandered from divine religion. You must not relent in your work which must show up Jewish deceit." BACON, FRANCIS. 16th century British writer, politician. In his The New Atlantis, he remarked that Jews "hate the name of Christ and have a secret and innate rancor against the people among whom they live." He also disapproved of non-Jewish usurers as "Judaizers" who would wear "tawny bonnets" like Jews. LUTHER, MARTIN. 16th century German religious reformer. "They are the real liars and bloodhounds, who have not only perverted and falsified the entire Scriptures from beginning to end and without ceasing with their interpretations. And all of the anxious sighing, longing and hoping of their hearts is directed to the time when some day they would like to deal with us heathen as they dealt with the heathen in Persia at the time of Esther... On how they love the book of Esther, which so nicely agrees with their bloodthirsty, revengeful and murderous desire and hope. (1) The sun never did shine on a more bloodthirsty and revengeful people as they, who imagine to be the people of God, and who desire to and think they must murder and crush the heathen. And the foremost undertaking which they expect of their Messiah is that he should slay and murder the whole world with the sword. As they at first demonstrated against us Christians and would like to do now, if they only could; have also tried it often and have been repeatedly struck on their snouts... Their breath stinks for the gold and silver of the heathen; since no people under the sun always have been, still are, and always will remain more avaricious than they, as can be noticed in their cursed usury. They also find comfort with this: "When the Messiah comes, He shall take all the gold and silver in the world and distribute it among the Jews. (2) Thus, wherever they can direct Scripture to their insatiable avarice, they wickedly do so. Therefore know, my dear Christians, that next to the Devil, you have no more bitter, more poisonous, more vehement and enemy than a real Jew who earnestly desires to be a Jew. There may be some among them who believe what the cow or the goose believes. But all of them are surrounded with their blood and circumcision. In history, therefore, they are often accused of poisoning wells, stealing children and mutilating them; as in Trent, Weszensee and the like. Of course they deny this. Be it so or not, however, I know full well that the ready will is not lacking with them if they could only transform it into deeds, in secret or openly. (3) A person who does not know the Devil, might wonder why they are so at enemity with the Christians above all others; for which they have no reason, since we only do good to them. They live among us in our homes, under our protection, use land and highways, market and streets. Princes and government sit by, snore and have their maws open, let the Jews take from their purse and chest, steal and rob whatever they will. That is, they permit themselves and their subjects to be abused and sucked dry and reduced to beggars with their own money, through the usury of the Jews. For the Jews, as foreigners, certainly should have nothing from us; and what they have certainly must be ours. They do not work, do not earn anything from us, neither do we donate or give it to them. Yet they have our money and goods and are lords in our land where they are supposed to be in exile! If a thief steals ten gulden he must hang; if he robs people on the highway, his head is gone. But a Jew, when he steals ten tons of gold through his usury is dearer than God himself! Do not their TALMUD and rabbis write that it is no sin to kill if a Jew kills a heathen, but it is a sin if he kills a brother in Israel? It is no sin if he does not keep his oath to a heathen. Therefore, to steal and rob (as they do with their moneylending) from a heathen, is a divine service... And they are the masters of the world and we are their servants - yea, their cattle! I maintain that in three fables of Aesop there is more wisdom to be found than in all the books of the Talmudists and rabbis and more than ever could come into the hearts of the Jews... Should someone think I am saying too much - I am saying much too little! For I see in [their] writings how they curse us Goyim and wish as all evil in their schools and prayers. They rob us of our money through usury, and wherever they are able, they play us all manner of mean tricks... No heathen has done such things and none would to so except the Devil himself and those whom he possesses - as he possesses the Jews. Burgensis, who was a very learned rabbi among them and by the grace of God became a Christian (which seldom occurs), is much moved that in their schools they so horribly curse us Christians (as Lyra also writes) and from that draws the conclusion that they must not be the people of God. Now behold what a nice, thick, fat lie it is when they complain about being captives among us! Jerusalem was destroyed more than 1,400 years ago during that time we Christians have been tortured and persecuted by the Jews in all the world. On top of that, we do not know to this day what Devil brought them into our country. We did not fetch them from Jerusalem!... Yes, we have and hold them captive, as I would like to keep my rheumatism, and all other diseases and misfortunes, who must wait as a poor servant, with money and property and everything I have! I wish they were in Jerusalem with the other Jews and whomsoever they would like to have with them. Now what are we going to do with these rejected, condemned Jewish people?... Let us apply the ordinary wisdom of other nations like France, Spain, Bohemia, et al., who made them give an account of what they had stolen through usury, and divided it evenly; but expelled them from their country;. For as heard before, God's wrath is so great over them that through soft mercy they only become more wicked, through hard treatment, however, only a little better. Therefore, away with them! How much more unbearable it is that we should permit the entire Christendom and all of us to be bought with our own money, be slandered and cursed by the Jews, who on top of all that be made rich and our lords, who laugh us to scorn and are tickled by their audacity! What a joyful affair that would be for the Devil and his angels, and cause them to laugh through their snouts like a sow grinning at her little pigs, but deserving real wrath before God. (From THE JEWS AND THEIR LIES) Maybe mild-hearted and gentle Christians will believe that I am too rigorous and drastic against the poor, afflicted Jews, believing that I ridicule them and treat them with much sarcasm. By my word, I am far too weak to be able to ridicule such a satanic brood. I would fain to do so, but they are far greater adepts at mockery than I and possess a god who is master in this art. It is the Evil One himself. Even with no further evidence than the Old Testament, I would maintain, and no person on earth could alter my opinion, that the Jews as they are today are veritably a mixture of all the depraved and malevolent knaves of the whole world over, who have then been dispersed in all countries, similarly to the Tartars, Gypsies and such folk." WASHINGTON, GEORGE, in Maxims of George Washington by A. A. Appleton & Co. "They (the Jews) work more effectively against us, than the enemy's armies. They are a hundred times more dangerous to our liberties and the great cause we are engaged in... It is much to be lamented that each state, long ago, has not hunted them down as pest to society and the greatest enemies we have to the happiness of America." This prophecy, by Benjamin Franklin, was made in a "CHIT CHAT AROUND THE TABLE DURING INTERMISSION," at the Philadelphia Constitutional Convention of 1787. This statement was recorded in the dairy of Charles Cotesworth Pinckney, a delegate from South Carolina. "I fully agree with General Washington, that we must protect this young nation from an insidious influence and impenetration. The menace, gentlemen, is the Jews. In whatever country Jews have settled in any great number, they have lowered its moral tone; depreciated its commercial integrity; have segregated themselves and have not been assimilated; have sneered at and tried to undermine the Christian religion upon which that nation is founded, by objecting to its restrictions; have built up a state within the state; and when opposed have tried to strangle that country to death financially, as in the case of Spain and Portugal. For over 1,700 years, the Jews have been bewailing their sad fate in that they have been exiled from their homeland, as they call Palestine. But gentlemen, did the world give it to them in fee simple, they would at once find some reason for not returning. Why? Because they are vampires, and vampires do not live on vampires. They cannot live only among themselves. They must subsist on Christians and other people not of their race. If you do not exclude them from these United States, in their Constitution, in less than 200 years they will have swarmed here in such great numbers that they will dominate and devour the land and change our form of government, for which we Americans have shed our blood, given our lives our substance and jeopardized our liberty. If you do not exclude them, in less than 200 years our descendants will be working in the fields to furnish them substance, while they will be in the counting houses rubbing their hands. I warn you, gentlemen, if you do not exclude Jews for all time, your children will curse you in your graves. Jews, gentlemen, are Asiatics, let them be born where they will nor how many generations they are away from Asia, they will never be otherwise. Their ideas do not conform to an American's, and will not even thou they live among us ten generations. A leopard cannot change its spots. Jews are Asiatics, are a menace to this country if permitted entrance, and should be excluded by this Constitutional Convention. STYVESANT, PETER. 17th century Dutch governor in America. "The Jews who have arrived would nearly all like to remain here, but learning that they (with their customary usury and deceitful trading with the Christians) were very repugnant to the inferior magistrates, as also to the people having the most affection for you; the Deaconry also fearing that owing to their present indigence they might become a charge in the coming winter, we have, for the benefit of this weak newly developing place and land in general, deemed it useful to require them in a friendly way to depart; praying also most seriously in this connection, for ourselves also for the general community of your worships, that the deceitful race - such hateful enemies and blasphemers of the name of Christ - not be allowed further to infect and trouble this new colony. (Letter to the Amsterdam Chamber of the Dutch West India Company, from New Amsterdam, September 22, 1654.) The Jews whom he attempted to oust merely applied to their fellow Jews in Holland, and the order came back from the Company countermanding the expulsion. (For a similar situation during the Civil War, see ULYSSES GRANT). Among the reasons given by "their worships" for over-ruling their governor, one stands out rather glaringly, in view of the usual Jewish contention that their people were 'poor and persecuted:' " ...and also because of the large amount of capital which they have invested in shares of this Company." (Harry Golden and Martin Rywell, THE JEWS IN AMERICAN HISTORY) THE GEORGIA COLONY IN AMERICA. On January 5, 1734, the trustees ordered that three Jews who had been sending correligionists into the colony without authorization "use their endeavors that the said Jews may be removed from the Colony of Georgia, as the best and only satisfaction that they can give to the Trustees for such an indignity offered to Gentlemen acting under His Majesty's Charter." (C. Jones, HISTORY OF SAVANNAH) JEFFERSON, THOMAS. 18th century American statesman. "Dispersed as the Jews are, they still form one nation, foreign to the land they live in. " (D. Boorstin, THE AMERICANS) "Those who labor in the earth are the Chosen People of God, if ever he had a chosen people. " (NOTES ON VIRGINIA) BEAMISH, HENRY H. 20th century British publisher. "There is no need to be delicate on this Jewish question. You must face them in this country. The Jew should be satisfied here. I was here forty-seven years ago; your doors were thrown open and you were then free. Now he has got you absolutely by the throat - that is their reward. " (New York speech, October 30, 1937) HARRINGTON, LORD. 19th century British statesman. Opposed admission of Jewish immigrants to England because: "They are the great moneylenders and loan contractors of the world... The consequence is that the nations of the world are groaning under heavy systems of taxation and national debt. They have ever been the greatest enemies of freedom. (Speech in the House of Lords, July 12, 1858) WALTER CRICK, British Manufacturer, in the NORTHAMPTON DAILY ECHO, March 19. 1925) "Jews can destroy by means of finance. Jews are International. Control of credits in this country is not in the hands of the English, but of Jews. It has become the biggest danger the British Empire ever had to face." WORLD FAMOUS MEN of the past accused the Jews of founding Communism. This charge is well founded. The Communist philosopy was drawn up by Karl Marx who descended from a long line of Rabbis. His ideology of anti-Christian and Socialist thought is outlined in the Jewish "TALMUD" which is the "bible" of the Jews. Of the four political groups which overthrew the Christan Czar of Russia two were 100% Jewish. They were the Mensheviks and The Jewish Bund. The other two were the Socialist Revolutionary Party and the Bolsheviks. Both were headed by Jews but had some Gentile members. Today we now know that Lenin was Jewish and all of the leaders of his first government were Jews. They were Trotsky, Zinoviev, Kamenev and Sverdlow. The wealthiest Jewish banker in the world at that time, Jacob Schiff of Kuhn, Loeb investment bank of New York City, gave Trotsky and Lenin $20 million to overthrow the Czar and establish the Soviet tyranny (according to the "NEW YORK JOURNAL-AMERICAN" of February 3, 1949.) CHURCHILL, WINSTON. 20th century British politician. In 1920, he wrote a long newspaper article of the recent Bolshevik seizure of Russia. After praising what he called the "national Jews" of Russia, he said: "In violent opposition to all this sphere of Jewish efforts rise the schemes of the International Jews. The adherents of this sinister confederacy are mostly men reared up among the unhappy populations of countries where Jews are persecuted on account of their race. Most, if not all, of them have forsaken the faith of their forefathers, and divorced from their minds all spiritual hopes of the next world. This movement among the Jews is not new. From the days of Spartacus-Weishaupt to those of Karl Marx, and down to Trotsky (Russia), Bela Kun (Hungary), Rosa Luxemburg (Germany), and Emma Goldman (United States), this world-wide revolutionary conspiracy for the overthrow of civilization and for the reconstitution of society on the basis of arrested development, of envious malevolence, and impossible equality, has been steadily growing. It played, as a modern writer, Mrs. Webster has ably shown, a definite recognizable part in the tragedy of the French Revolution. It has been the mainspring of every subversive movement during the Nineteenth Century; and now at last this band of extraordinary personalities from the underworlds of the great cities of Europe and America have gripped the Russian people by the hair of their heads and have become practically the undisputed masters of the enormous empire. There is no need to exaggerate the part played in the creating of Bolshevism and in the actual bringing about of the Russian Revolution by these international and for the most part atheistic Jews. It is certainly the very great one; it probably outweighs all others. With the notable exception of Lenin, the majority of the leading figures are Jews. Moreover, the principal inspiration and driving power comes from the Jewish leaders... In the Soviet institutions the predominance of Jews is even more astounding. And the prominent if not the principal part in the system of terrorism applied by the extraordinary Commissions for combating Counter Revolution has been take by Jews, and in some notable cases by Jewesses. The same evil prominence was obtained by Jews in the brief period of terror during which Bela Kun ruled in Hungary. The same phenomenon has been presented in Germany (especially Bavaria), so far as this madness has been allowed to prey upon the temporary prostration of the German people. Although in all these countries there are many nonJews every whit as bad as the worst of the Jewish revolutionaries, the part played by the latter in proportion to their numbers in the population is astonishing. ("Zionism versus Bolshevism: A Struggle for the Soul of the Jewish People." ILLUSTRATED SUNDAY HERALD, London, February 8, 1920.) BAKUNYIN, MIKHYL. 19th century Russian revolutionary. "Marx is a Jew and is surrounded by a crowd of little, more or less intelligent, scheming, agile, speculating Jews, just as Jews are everywhere, commercial and banking agents, writers, politicians, correspondents for newspapers of all shades; in short, literary brokers, just as they are financial brokers, with one foot in the bank and the other in the socialist movement, and their arses sitting upon the German press. They have grabbed hold of all newspapers, and you can imagine what a nauseating literature is the outcome of it. Now this entire Jewish world, which constitutes an exploiting sect, a people of leeches, a voracious parasite, Marx feels an instinctive inclination and a great respect for the Rothschilds. This may seem strange. What could there be in common between communism and high finance? Ho ho! The communism of Marx seeks a strong state centralization, and where this exists there must inevitably exist a state central bank, and where this exists, there the parasitic Jewish nation, which speculates upon the labor of the people, will always find the means for its existence... In reality, this would be for the proletariat a barrack regime, under which the workingmen and the working closely and intimately connected with one another, regarless not only of frontiers but of political differences as well - this Jewish world is today largely at the disposal of Marx or Rothschil. I am sure that, on the one hand, the Rothschilds appreciate the merits of Marx, and that on the other hand, women, converted into a uniform mass, would rise, fall asleep, work and live at the beat of the drum; the privilege of ruling would be in the hands of the skilled and the learned, with a wide scope left for profitable crooked deals carried on by the Jews, who would be attracted by the enormous extension of the international speculations of the national banks... (Polémique contres les Juifs) This startling piece of prediction is particularly impressive to those who have observed the Soviet scene and notice its strange relationship with capitalist financiers - overwhelmingly Jewish - since the revolution. The line runs from Olof Aschberg, self-described "Bolshevik banker" who ferried to Trotsky the huge sums raised for the revolution by financiers in Europe and America, to Armand Hammer in the 1970s, who has specialized in multimillion-dollar trade concessions with the now supposedly 'anti-Semitic' commissars. WILHELM II. German Kaiser. "A Jew cannot be a true patriot. He is something different, like a bad insect. He must be kept apart, out of a place where he can do mischief - even by pogroms, if necessary. The Jews are responsible for Bolshevism in Russia, and Germany too. I was far too indulgent with them during my reign, and I bitterly regret the favors I showed the prominent Jewish bankers." (CHICAGO TRIBUNE, July 2, 1922) CARDINAL MINDSZENTY, of Hungary quoted in B'nai B'rith Messenger, January 28, 1949 "The troblemakers in Hungary are the Jews... they demoralize our country and they are the leaders of the revolutionary gang that is torturing Hungary." ADRIEN ARCAND, New York speech, October 30, 1937 "When it came to Mexico, the promoters of Communism were the Jews Calles, Hubermann and Aaron Saenz; in Spain we saw Azaña and Rosenberg; in Hungary we saw Bela Kun, Szamuelly, Agoston and dozen other Jews; in Bavaria, we saw Kurt Eisner and a host of other Jews; in Belgium Marxian Socialism brought to power Vadervelde alias Epstein, and Paul Hymans, two Jews; in France, Marxian Socialism brought forth the Jews Leon Blum (who showed so well his Jewish instincts in his filthy book Du Mariarge), Mandel, Zyromsky, Danain and a whole tribe of them; in Italy we had seen the Jews Nathan and Claudio Treves. Everywhere, Marxism brings Jews on the top - And this is no hazard." HILAIRE BELLOC, renown historian in G. K.'s WEEKLY, February 4, 1937 "The propaganda of Communism throughout the world, in organization and direction is in the hands of Jewish agents. As for anyone who does not know that the Bolshevist movement in Russia is Jewish, I can only say that he must be a man who is taken in by the suppression of our deplorable press." A. HOMER, writes in Judaism and Bolshevism, page 7 "History shows that the Jew has always been, by nature, a revolutionary and that, since the dispersion of his race in the second century, he has either initiated or assisted revolutionary movements in religion, politics and finance, which weakened the power of the States wherein he dwelt. On the other hand, a few far-seeing members of that race have always been at hand to reap financial and political advantage coincident with such upheavals." CAPTAIN MONTGOMERY SCHYLER, American Expeditionary Forces, Siberia, in a military intelligence report dated March 1, 1919, to Lt. Col. Barrows in Vladivostok "It is probably unwise to say this loudly in the United States but the Bolshevik movement is and has been since its beginning guided and controlled by Russian Jews of the greasiest type, who have been in the United States and there absorbed every one of the worst phases of our civilization without having the least understanding of what we really mean by liberty." MRS. CLARE SHERIDAN, Traveler, Lecturer in NEW YORK WORLD, December 15, 1923 "The Communists are Jews, and Russia is being entirely administered by them. They are in every government office, bureau and newspaper. They are driving out the Russians and are responsible for the anti-Semitic feeling which is increasing." MAJOR ROBERT H. WILLIAMS, in Fecp and the Minority Machine, page 10 "B'nai B'rith, the secret Jewish fraternity, was organized in 1843, awakening world Jewish aspirations, or Zionism, and its name, meaning "Sons of the Covenant," suggests that the 12 men who organized the fraternity aimed at bringing about the fulfillment of "the Covenant," or the supposed Messianic promise of rulership over all peoples. To rule all peoples, it is first necessary to bring them together in a world federation or world government - which is the avowed aim of both Communists and Zionists." VLADIMIR, LENIN, Founder of Bolshevik Communist (From an article in Northern Pravda, October-December 1913, qouted in Lenin on the Jewish Question, page 10) "There the great universally progressive features of Jewish culture have made themselves clearly felt: its internationalism, its responsiveness of the advanced movements of our times (the percentage of Jews in democratic and proletarian movements is everywhere higher than the percentage of Jews in the general population.) ...Those Jewish Marxists who join up in the international Marxist organizations with the Russian, Lithuanian, Ukrainian and other workers, adding their might (both in Russian and in Jewish) to the creation of an international culture of the working class movement, are continuing the best traditions of Jewry." JOSEPH STALIN in a reply given on January 12, 1931 to an enquiry made by the Jewish Telegraphic Agency of America (Stars and Sand, page 316) "Anti-Semitism is dangerous for the toilers, for it is a false track which diverts them from the proper road and leads them into the jungle. Hence, Communists, as consistent internationalists, cannot but be irreconcilable and bitter enemies of anti-Semitism. In the U.S.S.R., anti-Semitism is strictly prosecuted as a phenomenon hostile to the Soviet system. According to the laws of the U.S.S.R. active anti-Semites are punished with death." HENRY FORD in (The Dearborn Independent, 12-19 February 1921 "Jews have always controlled the business... The motion picture influence of the United States and Canada... is exclusively under the control, moral and financial, of the Jewish manipulators of the public mind." M. OUDENDYK, the Netherlands' Minister to Petrograd on September 6, 1918, to the British Government, published in the unexpurgated edition of A Collection of Reports on Bolshevism in Russia, April, 1919 "...I consider that the immediate suppression of Bolshevism is the greatest issue before the World, not even excluding the war which is till raging, and unless, as above stated, Bolshevism is nipped in the bud immediately, it is bound to spread in one form or another over Europe and the whole World, as it is organized and worked by Jews who have no nationality, and whose one object is to destroy for their own ends the existing order of things." A. N. FIELD, in Today's Greatest Problem "Once the Jewishness of Bolshevism is understood, its otherwise puzzling features become understandable. Hatred of Christianity, for instance, is not a Russian characteristic; it is a Jewish one." FATHER DENIS FAHEY; in his book The Rulers of Russia, page 25 "The real forces behind Bolshevism is Russia are Jewish forces, and Bolshevism is really an instrument in the hands of the Jews for the establishment of their future Messianic kingdom." A. N. FIELD, The Truth About the Slump, page 208 "The World today, however provides a spectacle of a great concentration of Jewish power. In New York there is a concentration of Jewish financial power dominating the entire world in its material affairs, and side by side with it is the greates physical concentration of the Jews ever recorded. On the other side of the globe, there has taken place in Russia the greatest concentration of the Jewish revolutionary activity in all history... The enormously significant thing in the world today is that both this power of the purse (Theodor Herzl's "terrible (Jewish) power of the purse"  and revolutionary activity are working in the direction of destroying the entire existing order of things, and not only are they working in a common direction, but there is a mass of evidence that they are working in unison." H. H. BEAMISH, N.Y. speech, 1937 "Communism is Judaism. The Jewish Revolution in Russia was in 1918." HILARY COTTER, author of Cardinal Minszenty, The Truth About His Real "Crime," page 6 "Communism and Judaism are one and the same." ADRIEN ARCAND, Canadian political leader in New York Speech, October 30, 1937 "There is nothing else in Communism - a Jewish conspiracy to grab the whole world in their clutches; and no intelligent man in the world can find anything else, except the Jews, who rightly call it for themselves a "paradise on earth." Jews are eager to bring Communism, because they know what it is and what it means. It is because Communism has not been fought for what it really is - a Jewish scheme invented by Jews - that it has progressed against all opposition to it. We have fought the smoke-screen presented by Jewish dialecticians and publicists, refusing to fight the inventor, profiteer and string-puller. Because Christians and Gentiles have come to fear the Jews, fear the truth, and they are paralyzed by the paradoxical slogans shouted by the Jews." REV. KENNETH GOFF, in STILL 'TIS OUR ANCIENT FOE, page 99 "The Frankenstein of Communism is the product of the Jewish mind, and was turned loose upon the world by the son of a Rabbi, Karl Marx, in the hopes of destroying Christian civilization - as well as others. The testimony given before the Senate of the United States which is take from the many pages of the Overman Report, reveals beyond a shadow of a doubt that Jewish bankers financed the Russian Revolution." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- POPES, ROMAN CATHOLIC. SYLVESTER I. Condemned Jewish anti-Christian activity. GREGORY I ('The Great'). Protested wholesale circumcision of Christian slaves by Jewish traders, who monopolized the slave trade in Europe and the Middle East and were widely suspected of supplying white girls to Oriental and African buyers. GREGORY VIII. Forbade Jews to have power over Christians, in a letter to Alfonso VI of Castile. GREGORY IX. Condemned the TALMUD as containing "every kind of vileness and blasphemy against Christian doctrine." BENEDICT XIII. His Bull on the Jewish issue (1450) declared: "The heresies, vanities and errors of the TALMUD prevent their knowing the truth." JULIUS III. Contra Hebreos retinentes libros (1554) ordered the TALMUD burned "everywhere" and established a strict censorship over Jewish genocidal writings - an order that has never been rescinded and which presumably is still binding upon Catholics. PAUL IV. Cum nimis absurdim (1555) promulgated immediately after his coronation, was a powerful condemnation of Jewish usury. It embodies a model legal code to curb Jewish power that was recommended to all communities. PIUS IV. Condemned Jewish genocidal writings. PIUS V. Hebraeorum gens (1569) expelled all Jews from the Papal States. GREGORY XIII. Declared that Jews "continue to plot horrible crimes" against Christians "with daily increasing audacity." CLEMENT VIII. Condemned Jewish genocidal writings. ALEXANDER VIII. Condemned Jewish genocidal writings. BENEDICT XIV. Quo Primum 1751) denounced Jewish control of commerce and "systematical despoliation" of the Christian through usury. PIUS VII. Known generally as an 'anti-Semite' by Jewish writers. BENEDICT XV. Warned, in 1920, against "the advent of a Universal Republic which is longed for by all the worst elements of disorder." This is resented by some Jews because of their active sponsorship and direction of such projects as the League of Nations and United Nations. - And in effect, all Popes who have issued editions of the Index Expurgatorius, in which Jewish genocidal and anti-Christian writings are condemned, according to the instructions of the Council of Trent. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- GRANT, USYSSES S. 19th century American general, politician. While in command of the 13th Army Corps, headquartered at Oxford, Mississippi, he became so infuriated at Jewish camp-followers attempting to penetrate the conquered territory that he finally attempted to expel the Jews: "I have long since believed that in spite of all the vigilance that can be infused into post commanders, the special regulations of the Treasury Department have been violated, and that mostly by Jews and other unprincipled traders. So well satisfied have I been of this that I instructed the commanding officers at Columbus to refuse all permits to Jews to come South, and I have frequently had them expelled from the department, but they come in with their carpet-sacks in spite of all that can be done to prevent it. The Jews seem to be a privileged class that can travel anywhere. They will land at any woodyard on the river and make their way through the country. If not permitted to buy cotton themselves, they will act as agents for someone else, who will be at military post with a Treasury permit to receive cotton and pay for it in Treasury notes which the Jew will buy up at an agreed rate, paying gold. (Letters to C. P. Wolcott, assistant secretary of war, Washington, December 17, 1862) 1. The Jews, as a class, violating every regulation of trade established by the Treasury Department, and also Department orders, are hereby expelled from the Department. 2. Within twenty-four hours from the receipt of this order by Post Commanders, they will see that all of this class of people are furnished with passes and required to leave, and anyone returning after such notification, will be arrested and held in confinement until an opportunity occurs of sending them out as prisoners, unless furnished with permits from these headquarters. 3. No permits will be given these people to visit headquarters for the purpose of making personal application for trade permits. By order of Major Gen. Grant Jno. A. Rawlings, Assistant Adjutant General (General Order Number 11, December 17, 1862) The expulsion order was immediately countermanded by the general-in-chief, H. W. Halleck, in Washington. Apparently the expelled Jews had immediately contacted their kinsmen there and had pressure brought to bear. SHERMAN, WILLIAM T. 19th century American soldier. In a letter from Union-occupied Memphis, July 30, 1862, he wrote: "I found so many Jews and speculators here trading in cotton, and secessionists had become so open in refusing anything but gold, that I have felt myself bound to stop it. The gold can have but one use - the purchase of arms and ammunition... Of course, I have respected all permits by yourself or the Secretary of the Treasury, but in these new cases (swarms of Jews), I have stopped it." (The Sherman Letters) ROSS, L. F. 19th century American military man. As did Generals ULYSSES S. GRANT and WILLIAM T. SHERMAN, Ross confronted Jewish 'carpetbagging' cotton traders preying upon captured Confederate areas during the Civil War. In a letter to General John A. McClernand, he wrote: "The cotton speculators are quite clamorous for aid in the getting their cotton away from Middleburg, Hickory Valley, etc., and offer to pay liberally for the service. I think I can bring it away with safety, and make it pay to the Government. As some of the Jew owners have as good as stolen the cotton from the planters, I have no conscientious scruples in making them pay liberally to take it away." OLMSTED, GREDERICK LAW. 19th century American architect, historian. "A swarm of Jews has, within the last ten years, settled in every Southern town, many of them men of no character, opening cheap clothing and trinket shops, ruining or driving out of business many of the old retailers, and engaging in an unlawful trade with the simple Negroes, which is found very profitable. (The Cotton Kingdom. For other views on Jewish involvement in exploiting the South, see ULYSSES S. GRANT and MARK TWAIN.) TWAIN, MARK (S. L. Clemens). 19th century American writer. "In the U.S. cotton states, after the war... the Jew came down in force, set up shop on the plantation, supplied all the Negroes' wants on credit, and at the end of the season was the proprietor of the Negro's share of the present crop and part of the next one. Before long, the whites detested the Jew. (1) The Jew is being legislated out of Russia. The reason is not concealed. The movement was instituted because the Christian peasant stood no chance against his commercial abilities. The Jew was always ready to lend on a crop. When settlement day came, he owned the crop; the next year he owned the farm - like Joseph. (2) In the England of John's time everybody got into debt to the Jew. He gathered all lucrative enterprises into his hands. He was the King of Commerce. He had to be banished from the realm. For like reasons, Spain had to banish him 400 years ago, and Austria a couple of centuries later. In all ages Christian Europe has been obliged to curtail his activities. If he entered upon a trade, the Christian had to retire from it. If he set up as a doctor, he took the business. If he exploited agriculture, the other farmers had to get at something else. The law had to step in to save the Christian from the poor-house. Still, almost bereft of employments, he found ways to make money. Even to get rich. This history has a most sordid and practical commercial look. Religious prejudices may account for one part of it, bit not for the other nine. Protestants have persecuted Catholics - but they did not take their livelihoods away from them. Catholics have persecuted Protestants - bit they never closed agriculture and the handicrafts against them. I feel convinced that the Crucifixion has not much to do with the world's attitude toward the Jew; that the reasons for it are much older than that event ... I am convinced that the persecution of the Jew is not in any large degree due to religious prejudice. No, the Jew is a money-getter. He made it the end and aim of his life. He was at it in Rome. He has been at it ever since. His success has made the whole human race his enemy. You will say that the Jew is everywhere numerically feeble. When I read in the Cyclopedia Britannica that the Jewish population in the United States was 250,000 I wrote the editor and explained to him that I was personally acquainted with more Jews than that, and that his figures were without doubt a misprint for 25,000,000. People told me that they had reasons to suspect that for business reasons, many Jews did not report themselves as Jews. It looks plausible. I am strongly of the opinion that we have an immense Jewish population in America. I am assured by men competent to speak that the Jews are exceedingly active in politics. ("Concerning the Jews," Harper's Monthly Magazine, September 1899) Twain's opinion on the Jews is probably the best-kept secret in American literary history. Immediately after his death, his eccentric daughter Clara married - or was married by - the Jewish piano player, Ossip Galbrilowitsch. Twain's publishers were given speedy instructions to delete "Concerning the Jews" from the collected works, where it had appeared in the book The Man that Corrupted Hadleybury & Other Stories. (1) Since Jews provided most of the agitators and orators who pushed forward the Abolition campaign that culminated in the Civil War (which Jewish bankers largely financed, on both sides), it seems a legitimate question whether there was any preplanning for the wholesale - and retail - economic looting done by mainly Jewish carpetbaggers after the war. (2) We have cited a host of other writers on the terrible economic depredation that Jewry visited on the people of Tzarist Russia. ERNEST RENAN, French historian "The Jews are not merely a different religious community, but - and this is the most important factor - ethnically an altogether different race. The European felt instinctively that the Jew is a stranger, who immigrated from Asia. The so-called prejudice is natural sentiment. Civilization will overcome antipathy against the Israelite who merely professes another religion, but never against the racially different Jew... In Eastern Europe the Jew is the cancer slowly eating into the flesh of other nations. Exploitation of the people is his only aim. Selfishness and a lack of personal courage are his chief characteristics; self-sacrifice and patriotism are altogether foreign to him." GOLDWIN SMITH, Professor of Modern History at Oxford, wrote in Nineteenth Century, October 1881 "The Jew alone regard his race as superior to humanity, and looks forward not to its ultimate union with other races, but to its triumph over them all and to its final ascendancy under the leadership of a tribal Messiah." MENCKEN, H. L. 20th century American writer. "The Jews could be put down very plausibly as the most unpleasant race ever heard of. As commonly encountered they lack any of the qualities that mark the civilized man: courage, dignity, incorruptibility, ease, confidence. They have vanity without pride, voluptuousness without taste, and learning without wisdom. Their fortitude, such as it is, is wasted upon puerile objects, and their charity is mainly a form of display." (Treatise on the Gods) The fact that what are commonly spoken of as rights are often really privileges is demonstrated in the case of the Jews. They resent bitterly their exclusion from certain hotels, resorts and other places of gathering, and make determined efforts to horn in. But the moment any considerable number of them horns in, the attractions of the place diminish, and the more pushful Jews turn to one where they are still nicht gewuenscht ... ("not wanted." "I am one of the few Goyim who have ever actually tackled the TALMUD. I suppose you now expect me to add that it is a profound and noble work, worthy of hard study by all other GOYIM. Unhappily, my report must differ from this expectation. It seems to me, save for a few bright spots, to be quite indistinguishable from rubbish..." "The Jewish theory that the GOYIM envy the superior ability of the Jews is not borne out by the facts. Most GOYIM, in fact, deny that the Jew is superior, and point in evidence to his failure to take the first prizes: he has to be content with the seconds. No Jewish composer has ever come within miles of Bach, Beethoven and Brahms; no Jew has ever challenged the top-flight painters of the world, and no Jewish scientist has equaled Newton, Darwin, Pasteur or Mendel. In the latter bracket such apparent exception as Ehrlich, Freud and Einstein are only apparent. Ehrlich, in fact, contributed less to biochemical fact than to biochemical theory, and most of his theory was dubious. Freud was nine-tenths quack, and there is sound reason for believing that even Einstein will not hold up: in the long run his curved space may be classed with the psychosomatic bumps of Gall and Spurzheim. But whether this inferiority of the Jew is real or only a delusion, it must be manifest that it is generally accepted. The GOY does not, in fact, believe that the Jew is better than the non-Jew; the most he will admit is that the Jew is smarter at achieving worldly success. But this he ascribes to sharp practices, not to superior ability." (Minority Report: H. L. Mencken's Notebooks) SHAW, GEORGE BERNARD. 20th century British dramatist. "This is the real enemy, the invader from the East, the Druze, the ruffian, the oriental parasite; in a word: the Jew. (London Morning Post, December 3, 1925) This craving for bouquets by Jews is a symptom of racial degeneration. The Jews are worse than my own people. Those Jews who still want to be the chosen race (chosen by the late Lord Balfour) can go to Palestine and stew in their own juice. The rest had better stop being Jews and start being human beings. (Literary Digest, October 12, 1932) WAGNER, RICHARD. 19th century German composer. "The Jew has never had an art of his own, hence never a live of art-enabling import... "So long as the separate art of music had a real organic life-need in it, down to the epochs of Mozart and Beethoven, there was nowhere to be found a Jew composer: it was utterly impossible for an element quiet foreign to that living organism to take a part in the formative stages of that life. Only when a body's inner death is manifest, do outside elements win the power of judgment in it - yet merely to destroy it. On one thing am I clear: that is the influence which the Jews have gained upon our mental life, as displayed in the deflection and falsification of our highest culture-tendencies. Whether the downfall of our culture can be arrested by a violent rejection of the destructive alien element, I an unable to decide, since that would require forces with whose existence I am unacquainted. (Judaism in Music) SOMBART, WERNER. 20th century German economist. "Capitalism was born from the money loan. Money lending contains the root idea of capitalism. Turn to the pages of the TALMUD and you will find that the Jews made an art of lending money. They were taught early to look for their chief happiness in the possession of money. They fathomed all the secrets that lay hid in money. They became Lords of Money and Lords of the World... FITZGERALD, F. SCOTT. 20th century American novelist. "Down a tall busy street he read a dozen Jewish names on a line of stores; in the door of each stood a dark little man watching the passers from intent eyes - eyes gleaming with suspicion, with pride, with clarity, with cupidity, with comprehension. New York - he could not dissociate it from the slow, upward creep of this people - the little stores, growing, expanding, consolidating, moving, watched over with hawks' eyes and a bee's attention to detail - they [were Jews.] EMERSON, RALPH WALDO. 19th century American philosopher, poet. "The sufferance which is the badge of the Jew has made him, in these days, the ruler of the rulers of the earth. (Fate an essay) BURTON, SIR RICHARD FRANCIS. 19th century British diplomat, writer. After a sting as consul at Damascus, Syria, where some years before, a Catholic priest was allegedly murdered in a blood ritual by Jews, Burton took an interest in the matter. His investigations satisfied him that such killings actually were performed by certain sects of Jews. "The Jew's hand was ever, like Ishmael's, against every man but those belonging to the Synagogue. His fierce passions and fiendish cunning, combined with abnormal powers of intellect, with intense vitality, and with a persistency of purpose which the world has rarely seen, and whetted moreover by a keen thirst for blood engendered by defeat and subjection, combined to make him the deadly enemy of all mankind, whilst his unsocial and iniquitous Oral Law contributed to inflame his wild lust of pelf, and to justify the crimes suggested by spite and superstition." DREISER, THEODORE. 20th century American writer. "New York to me is a scream - a Kyke's dream of a ghetto. The Lost Tribe has taken the island. (Letter to H. L. Mencken, November 5, 1922) " "Liberalism, in the case of the Jew, means internationalism. If you listen to Jews discuss Jews, you will find they are mone-minded, very sharp in practice. The Jews lack the fine integrity which at last is endorsed, and to a certain degree followed, by lawyers of other nationalities. The Jew has been in Germany for a thousand years, and he is still a Jew. He has been in America for all of 200 years, and he has not faded into a pure American by any means - and he will not. (Letter to Hutchins Hapgood, The Nation magazine, April 17, 1935)" WELLS, H. G. 20th century British writer. "The Jews looked for a special savior, a messiah, who was to redeem mankind by the agreeable process of restoring the fabulous glories of David and Solomon, and bringing the whole world at last under the firm but benevolent Jewish heel." (The Outline of History) "Zionism is an expression of Jewish refusal to assimilate. If the Jews have suffered, it is because they have regarded themselves as a chosen people." (The Anatomy of Frustration) "A careful study of anti-Semitism prejudice and accusations might be of great value to many Jews, who do not adequately realize the irritations they inflict." (Letter of November 11, 1933) Wells was in the habit of referring to KARL MARX as "a shallow third-rate Jew," and "a lousy Jew" in private correspondence. (Norman MacKenzie, H. G. Wells) LINDBERGH, CHARLES. 20th century American aviator, writer. Wednesday, August 23, 1939 "We are disturbed about the effect of the Jewish influence in our press, radio and motion pictures. It may become very serious. [Fulton] Lewis told us of one instance where the Jewish advertising firms threatened to remove all their advertising from the Mutual system if a certain feature were permitted to go on the air. The threat was powerful enough to have the feature removed." Thursday, May 1, 1941 "The pressure for war is high and mounting. The people are opposed to it, but the Administration seems to have 'the bit in its teeth' and is hell-bent on its way to war. Most of the Jewish interests in the country are behind war, and they control a huge part of our press and radio and most of our motion pictures. There are the 'intellectuals' and the 'Anglophiles,' and the British agents who are allowed free rein, the international financial interests, and many others." (The Wartime Journals) GENERAL GEORGE VAN HORN MOSELY, in the New York Tribune, March 29, 1939 "The war now proposed is for the purpose of establishing Jewish influence throughout the world." HERDER, JOHANN GOTTFRIED. 18th century German philosopher. "The Jewish people is and remains in Europe an Asiatic people alien to our part of the world, bound to that old law which it received in a distant climate, and which, according to its confession, it cannot do away with... How many of this alien people can be tolerated without injury to the true citizen? A ministry in which a Jew is supreme, a household in which a Jew has the key of the wardrobe and the management of the finances, a department or commissariat in which Jews do the principal business, are Pontine marshes which cannot be drained. (Bekehrung der Juden) For thousands of years, since their emergence on the stage of history, the Jews were a parasitic growth on the stem of other nations, a race of cunning brokers all over the earth. They have cause great evil to many ill-organized states, by retarding the free and natural economic development of their indigenous population. ("Hebraer," in Ideen) BONAPARTE, NAPOLEON. French statesman, general. "The Jews provided troops for my campaign in Poland, but they ought to reimburse me: I soon found that they are no good for anything but selling old clothes..." "Legislating must be put in effect everywhere that the general well-being is in danger. The government cannot look with indifference on the way a despicable nation takes possession of all the provinces of France. The Jews are the master robbers of the modern age; they are the carrion birds of humanity... "They must be treated with political justice, not with civil justice. They are surely not real citizens." "The Jews have practiced usury since the time of Moses, and oppressed the other peoples. Meanwhile, the Christians were only rarely usurers, falling into disgrace when they did so. We ought to ban the Jews from commerce because they abuse it... The evils of the Jews do not stem from individuals but from the fundamental nature of this people." (From Napoleon's Reflections, and from speeches before the Council of State on April 30 and May 7, 1806.) "Nothing more contemptible could be done than the reception of the Jews by you. I decided to improve the Jews. But I do not want more of them in my kingdom. Indeed, I have done all to prove my scorn of the most vile nation in the world." (Letter to his brother Jerome, King of Westphalia, March 6, 1808) (1) Every big and small Jew is the peddling trade must renew his license every year. (2) Checks and other obligations are only redeemable if the Jew can prove that he has obtained the money without cheating. (Ordinance of March 17, 1808. Napoleonic Code.) DE GAULLE, CHARLES. 20th century French politician. Addressing the Zionist imbroglio in the Mideast in a news conference of November 27, 1967, he observed: "The Jews remain what they have been at all times: an elite people, self-confident and domineering." SAND, GEORGE (Amantine Dupin Dudevant). 19th century French novelist. "I saw in 'the wandering Jew' the personification of the Jewish people, exiled in the Middle Ages. Nevertheless, they are once again extremely rich, owing to their unfailing rude greediness and their indefatigable activity. With their hard-heartedness that they extend toward people of other faiths and races they are at the point of making themselves kings of the world. This people can thank its obstinacy that France will be Judized within fifty years. Already some wise Jews prophesy this frankly." (Letter to Victor Lorie, 1857) COMMUNITY OF STRASBOURG, FRANCE. In an address to the ASSEMBLEE in 1790, the city's revolutionary leaders opposed citizenship for Jews, because: "Everyone knew the inherent bad character of the Jews and no one doubted they were foreigners... Let the 'enlighteners' stop defaming the Gentiles by blaming them for what is wrong with the Jews. Their conduct is their own fault. Perhaps the Jews might eventually give up every aspect of their separation and all the characteristics of their nature. Let us sit and wait until that happens; we might them judge them to be worthy of equality. (Tres Humble Adresse qui Presente la Commune de la Ville Strasbourg) ROBERTS, STEPHEN H. 20th century Australian historian. Though hostile on almost every point to National Socialism, his The House that Hitler Built does admit that Jews were a menace in Germany: "It is useless to deny that grave Jewish problems existed in Germany. The nation was in the unfortunate geographical position of being the first stage in the perennial push westward of the Polish Jews. Unless forced on, they tended to stop in Berlin and Hamburg, where they obtained an unduly share of good professional positions. In Berlin, for example, when the Nazi came to power, 50.2 percent of the lawyers were Jews. In medicine, 48 per cent of the doctors were Jews, and it was said that they systematically seized the principal hospital posts. The Jews owned the largest and most important Berlin newspapers, and they had made great inroads on the educational system." FRANCO, FRANCISCO. 20th century Spanish statesman. In his victory speech in Madrid, on May 19, 1939, he declared: "Let us be under no illusion. The Jewish spirit, which was responsible for the alliance of large-scale capital with Marxism and was the driving force behind so many anti-Spanish revolutionary agreements, will not be got rid of in a day." PRIMO DE RIVERA, JOSE. 20th century Spanish political reformer (assassinated by the Communists). He stressed that the instruments of Jewish domination in the modern world are money and the press, and that communism is an instrument of international Jewish capitalism used to smash and afterwards rule the nations. (El Estado Nacional) H. H. BEAMISH, in a New York address, October 30 - November 1, 1937 "In 1848 the word "anti-Semitic" was invented by the Jews to prevent the use of the word "Jew." The right word for them is "Jew" ... "I implore all of you to be accurate - call them Jews. There is no need to be delicate on this Jewish question. You must face them in this country. The Jew should be satisfied here. I was here forty-seven years ago; your doors were thrown open to the Jews and they were free. No he has got you absolutely by the throat - that is your reward." CHRISTEA, PATRIARCH. 20th century Romanian prelate. "The Jews have caused an epidemic of corruption and social unrest. They monopolize the press, which, with foreign help, flays all the spiritual treasures of the Romanians. To defend ourselves is a national and patriotic duty - not anti-Semitism. Lack of measures to get rid of the plague would indicate that we are lazy cowards who let ourselves be carried alive to our graves. Why should we not get rid of these parasites who suck Romanian and Christian blood? It is logical and holy to react against them." (New York Herald Tribune, August 17, 1937) HOUSTON STEWART CHAMBERLAIN, world famed author of Foundations of the Nineteenth Century, Vol. I, page 337 "The revelation of Christ has no significance for the Jew! ... I have searched through a whole library of Jewish books in the expectation of finding - naturally not belief in the Divinity of Christ, nor the idea of redemption, but the purely human feeling for the greatness of suffering Savior - but in vain. A Jew who feels that, is, in fact, no longer a Jew, but a denier of Judiasm. And while we find, even in Mohammed's Koran, at least a vague conception of the importance of Christ and profound reverence for His personality, a cultured leading Jew of the nineteenth century (Graetz) calls Christ "the new birth with the death mask," which inflicted new and painful wounds upon the Jewish people; he cannot see anything else in Him. In view of the Cross he assures us that "the Jews do not require this convulsive emotion for their spiritual improvement," and adds, "particularly not among the middle classes of inhabitants of the cities." His comprehension goes further. In a book, republished in 1880, by a Spanish Jew (Mose de Leon) Jesus Christ is called a "dead dog" that lies "buried in a dunghill." Besides, the Jews have taken care to issue in the latter part of the nineteens century several editions (naturally in Hebrew) of the so-called "censured passages" from the Talmud, those passages usually omitted in which Christ is exposed to our scorn and hatred as a "fool," "sorcerer," "profane person," "idolater," "dog," "bastard," "child of lust," etc.: so, too, His sublime Mother." ADRIEN ARCAND, Canadian political leader of the 1930s "Through their (Jew's) international news agencies, they mold your minds and have you see the world not as it is, but as they want you to see it. Through their cinema, they are the educators of our youth - and with just one film in two hours, can wipe out of a child's brain what he has learned in six months in the home, the church or the school." NESTA WEBSTER, in her book Germany and England "England is no longer controlled by Britons. We are under the invisible Jewish dictatorship - a dictatorship that can be felt in every sphere of life." HENRY WALLACE, Secretary of Commerce, under President Harry Truman, wrote in his dairy that in 1946 "Truman was "exasperated" over Jewish pressure that he support Zionist rule over Palestine. Wallace added "Pres. Truman expressed himself as being very much 'put out' with the Jews. He said that 'Jesus Christ couldn't please them when he was here on Earth, so how could anyone expect that I would have any luck?' Pres. Truman said he hand no use for them and didn't care what happened to them." WILLIAM JENNINGS BRYANT, three times the Democratic Party candidate for President said: "New York is the city of privilege. Here is the seat of the Invisible Power represented by the allied forces of finance and industry. This Invisible Government is reactionary, sinister, unscrupulous, mercenary, and sordid. It is wanting in national ideals and devoid of conscience... This kind of government must be scourged and destroyed." HENRY ADAMS (Descendant of President John Adams), in a letter to John Hay, October 1895 "The Jewish question is really the most serious of our problems." SPRING-RICE, SIR CECIL. 20th century British politician. "One by one, the Jews are capturing the principal newspapers of America. (Letter of November 1914, to Sir Edward Grey, foreign secretary. Letters and Friendships) CAPOTE, TRUMAN. 20th century American writer. In an interview, he assailed "the Zionist mafia" monopolizing publishing today, and protested a tendency to suppress things that do not meet with Jewish approval. (Playboy magazine, March 1968) VOLTAIRE (Francois Marie Arouet) 18th century French philosopher, writer. "Why are the Jews hated? It is the inevitable result of their laws; they either have to conquer everybody or be hated by the whole human race..." "The Jewish nation dares to display an irreconcilable hatred toward all nations, and revolts against all masters; always superstitious, always greedy for the well-being enjoyed by others, always barbarous - cringing in misfortune and insolent in prosperity." (Essai sur le Moeurs) "You seem to me to be the maddest of the lot. The Kaffirs, the Hottentots, and the Negroes of Guinea are much more reasonable and more honest people than your ancestors, the Jews. You have surpassed all nations in impertinent fables in bad conduct and in barbarism. You deserve to be punished, for this is your destiny." (From a letter to a Jew who had written to him, complaining of his 'anti-Semitism.' Examen des Quelques Objections... dans L'Essai sur le Moeurs.) "You will only find in the Jews an ignorant and barbarous people, who for a long time have joined the most sordid avarice to the most detestable superstition and to the most invincible hatred of all peoples which tolerate and enrich them." ("Juif," Dictionnaire Philosophique) "I know that there are some Jews in the English colonies. These marranos go wherever there is money to be made... But whether these circumcised who sell old clothes claim that they are of the tribe of Naphtali or Issachar is not of the slightest importance. They are, simply, the biggest scoundrels who have ever dirtied the face of the earth." (Letter to Jean-Baptiste Nicolas de Lisle de Sales, December 15, 1773. Correspondance. 86:166) "They are, all of them, born with raging fanaticism in their hearts, just as the Bretons and the Germans are born with blond hair. I would not be in the least bit surprised if these people would not some day become deadly to the human race." (Lettres de Memmius a Ciceron, 1771) CANNOT, E. 19th century French reformer. In La Renovation, journal of the socialist school of CHARLES FOURIER. "Jews! To the heights of your Sinai... I humbly lift myself. I stand erect and cry out to you, in behalf of all my humble equals, of all those whom your spoliation has brought to grief, who died in misery through you and whose trembling shades accuse you: Jews! for Cain and Iscariot, leave us, leave us! Ah, cross the Red Sea again, and go down there to the desert, to the promised land which is waiting for you, the only country fit for you; o you wicked, rude and dishonest people, go there!!! ("Israel"
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| | Monday, February 12, 2001 - 10:13 am "To seek out that which was lost..." We present this Information as a Service to our readers... Its inclusion should not be construed as the Authors' or the Relays' endorsement of our Beliefs... or as our endorsement of theirs.. the Truth will stand on it's own Merit. 436 QUOTES by and about Jews ... Part one of Six. (Compiled by Willie Martin) I found it at... "http://ra.nilenet.com/~tmw/files/436quote.html" 1). Dr. Abba Hillel Silver, a well known Jew, when writing in the Jewish publication, Liberal Judaism, January, 1949, about the newly created state of Israel declared: "For the curse of Cain, the curse of being an outcast and a wanderer over the face of the earth has been removed..." 2) "Whenever an American or a Filipino fell at Bataan or Corregidor or at any other of the now historic spots where MacArthur's men put up their remarkable fight, their survivors could have said with truth: 'The real reason that boy went to his death, was because Hitler's anti-semitic movement succeeded in Germany.'" (The American Hebrew, July 24, 1942). 3). "Lenin had taken part in Jewish student meetings in Switzerland thirty-five years before." (Dr. Chaim Weizmann, in The London Jewish Chronicle, December 16, 1932) 4). "It was my first sight of him {Lenin} - a smooth-headed, oval-faced, narrow-eyed, typical Jew, with a devilish sureness in every line of his powerful magnetic face. Beside him was a different type of Jew, the kind one might see in any Soho shop, strong-nosed, sallow-faced, long-moustached, with a little tuft of beard wagging from his chin and a great shock of wild hair, Leiba Bronstein, afterwards Lev Trotsky." (Herbert T. Fitch, Scotland Yark detective, in his book Traitors Within, p. 16) 5). "Lenin, or Oulianov by adoption, originally Zederbaum, a Kalmuck Jew, married a Jewess, and whose children speak Yiddish." (Major-General, Count Cherep-Spiridovich, The Secret World Government, p. 36) 6). "Lenin, as a child, was left behind, there, by a company of prisoners passing through, and later his Jewish convict father, Ilko Sroul Goldman, wrote inquiring his whereabouts. Lenin had already been picked up and adopted by Qulianoff." (D. Petrovsky, Russia under the Jews, p. 86) 7). "Lenin was born on April 10, 1870 in the vicinity of Odessa, South of Russia, as a son of Ilko Sroul Goldmann, a German Jew, and Sofie Goldmann, a German Jewess. Lenin was circumcised as Hiam Goldmann." (Common Sense, April 1, 1963) 8). "Kill the Germans, wherever you find them! Every German is our moral enemy. Have no mercy on women, children, or the aged! Kill every German wipe them out!" (Llya Ehrenburg, Glaser, p. 111). 9). "Germany is the enemy of Judaism and must be pursued with deadly hatred. The goal of Judaism of today is: a merciless campaign against all German peoples and the complete destruction of the nation. We demand a complete blockade of trade, the importation of raw materials stopped, and retaliation towards every German, woman and child." (Jewish professor A. Kulischer, October, 1937) 10). "The millions of Jews who live in America, England and France, North and South Africa, and, not to forget those in Palestine, are determined to bring the war of annihilation against Germany to its final end." (The Jewish newspaper, Central Blad Voor Israeliten in Nederland, September 13, 1939) 11). "Our fight against Germany must be carried to the limit of what is possible. Israel has been attacked. Let us, therefore, defend Israel! Against the awakened Germany, we put an awakened Israel. And the world will defend us." (Jewish author Pierre Creange in his book Epitres aux Juifs, 1938) 12) "Judea declares War on Germany." (Daily Express, March 24, 1934) 13). "Germany must be turned into a waste land, as happened there during the 30year War." (Das MorgenthauTagebuch, The Morgenthau Dairy, p. 11). 14). "The fight against Germany has now been waged for months by every Jewish community, on every conference, in all labor unions and by every single Jew in the world. There are reasons for the assumption that our share in this fight is of general importance. We shall start a spiritual and material war of the whole world against Germany. Germany is striving to become once again a great nation, and to recover her lost territories as well as her colonies. But our Jewish interests call for the complete destruction of Germany..." (Valadimir Jabotinsky, in Mascha Rjetsch, January, 1934) 15) "In fact, about 600 newspapers were officially banned during 1933. Others were unofficially silenced by street methods. The exceptions included Judische Rundschau, the ZVfD's Weekly and several other Jewish publications. German Zionism's weekly was hawked on street corners and displayed at news stands. When Chaim Arlosoroff visited Zionist headquarters in London on June 1, he emphasized, 'The Rundschau is of crucial Rundschau circulation had in fact jumped to more than 38,000 four to five times its 1932 circulation. Although many influential Aryan publications were forced to restrict their page size to conserve newsprint, Judische Rundschau was not affected until mandatory newsprint rationing in 1937. And while stringent censorship of all German publications was enforced from the outset, Judische Rundschau was allowed relative press freedoms. Although two issues of it were suppressed when they published Chaim Arlosoroff's outline for a capital transfer, such seizures were rare. Other than the ban on antiNazi boycott references, printing atrocity stories, and criticizing the Reich, Judische Rundschau was essentially exempt from the socalled Gleichschaltung or 'uniformity' demanded by the Nazi Party of all facets of German society. Juedische Rundschau was free to preach Zionism as a wholly separate political philosophy indeed, the only separate political philosophy sanction by the Third Reich." (This shows the Jewish Zionists enjoyed a visibly protected political status in Germany, prior to World War II). 16). "That German Jewry could raise the Star of David Emblazoned Zionist Flag..." (Nuremburg Laws of 1935) 17). "Although a Republican, the former Governor has a sincere regard for President Roosevelt and his politics. He referred to the 'Jewish ancestry' of the President, explaining how he is a descendent of the Rossocampo family expelled from Spain in 1620. Seeking safety in Germany, Holland and other countries, members of the family, he said, changed their name to Rosenberg, Rosenbaum, Rosenblum, Rosenvelt and Rosenthal. The Rosenvelts in North Holland finally became Roosevelt, soon becoming apostates with the first generation and other following suit until, in the fourth generation, a little storekeeper by the name of Jacobus Roosevelt was the only one who remained true to his Jewish Faith. It is because of this Jewish ancestry, Former Governor Osborn said, that President Roosevelt has the trend of economic safety (?) in his veins." (Chase S. Osborn, 1934 at St. Petersburg, Florida, The Times Newspaper). 18). "The fight against Germany has now been waged for months by every Jewish community, on every conference, in all labor unions and by every single Jew in the world. There are reasons for the assumption that our share in this fight is of general importance. We shall start a spiritual and material war of the whole world against Germany. Germany is striving to become once again a great nation, and to recover her lost territories as well as her colonies. but our Jewish interests call for the complete destruction of Germany..." (Vladimir Jabotinsky, Mascha Rjetsch, January 1934) 19). "...Jabotinsky insisted that all energies be expended to force the Congress to join the boycott movement. Nothing less than a 'merciless fight' would be acceptable, cried Jabotinsky. 'The present Congress is duty bound to put the Jewish problem in Germany before the entire world...(We [Jews] must) destroy, destroy, destroy them, not only with the boycott, but politically, supporting all existing forces against them to isolate Germany from the civilized world...our enemy [Germany] must be destroyed." (Speech by Vladimir Jabotinsky, a Polish Jews, on June 16, 1933) 20). "No gassing took place in any camp on Germany soil." (NaziHunter Simon Wisenthal, in his Books and Bookmen, p. 5) 21). "We became aware of the propaganda in your country about alleged cruelties against the Jews in Germany. We therefore consider it our duty, not only in our own interest as German patriots, but also for the sake of truth, to comment on these incidents. Mistreatment and excesses have indeed occurred, and we are far from glossing these over. But this is hardly avoidable in any kind of revolution. We attach great significance to the fact that the authorities where it was at all possible to interfere, have done so against outrages that have come to our knowledge. In all cases, these deeds were committed by irresponsible elements who kept in hiding. We know that the government and all leading authorities most strongly disapprove of the violations that occurred. But we also feel that now is the time to move away from the irresponsible agitation on the part of socalled Jewish intellectuals living abroad. These men, most of whom never considered themselves German nationals, but pretended to be champions for those of their own faith, abandoned them at a critical time and fled the country. They lost, therefore, the right to speak out on GermanJewish affairs. The accusations which they are hurling from their safe hidingplaces, are injurious to German and German Jews; their reports are vastly exaggerated. We ask the U.S. Embassy to forward this letter to the U.S. without delay, and we are accepting full responsibility for its content. Since we know that a largescale propaganda campaign is to be launched next Monday, we would appreciate if the American public be informed of this letter by that date [Of course we know that the Jewish owned American News Media did not so inform the American Public just another of the traitorous actions which they have repeated time after time over the years]...The atrocity propaganda is lying. The Originators are politically and economically motivated. The same Jewish writers who allow themselves to be misused for this purpose, used to scoff at us veterans in earlier years." (Feuerzeichen, Ingid Weckert, Tubingen 1981, p. 5254, with reference to Nation Europa 10/1962 p. 7f) 22). "German Jewry, which found its temporary end during the Nazi period, was one of the most interesting and for modern Jewish history most influential centers of European Jewry. During the era of emancipation, i.e. in the second half of the nineteenth and in the early twentieth century, it had experienced a meteoric rise...It had fully participated in the rapid industrial rise of Imperial Germany, made a substantial contribution to it and acquired a renowned position in German economic life. Seen from the economic point of view, no Jewish minority in any other country, not even that in America could possibly compete with the German Jews. They were involved in large scale banking, a situation unparalled elsewhere, and, by way of high finance, they had also penetrated German industry. A considerable portion of the wholesale trade was Jewish. They controlled even such branches of industry which is generally not in Jewish hands. Examples are shipping or the electrical industry, and names such as Ballin and Rathenau do confirm this statement. I hardly know of any other branch of emancipated Jewry in Europe or the American continent that was as deeply rooted in the general economy as was German Jewry. American Jews of today are absolutely as well as relative richer than the German Jews were at the time, it is true, but even in America with its unlimited possibilities the Jews have not succeeded in penetrating into the central spheres of industry (steel, iron, heavy industry, shipping), as was the case in Germany. Their position in the intellectual life of the country was equally unique. In literature, they were represented by illustrious names. The theater was largely in their hands. The daily press, above all its internationally influential sector, was essentially owned by Jews or controlled by them. As paradoxical as this may sound today, after the Hitler era, I have no hesitation to say that hardly any section of the Jewish people has made such extensive use of the emancipation offered to them in the nineteenth century as the German Jews! In short, the history of the Jews in Germany from 1870 to 1933 is probably the most glorious rise that has ever been achieved by any branch of the Jewish people (p. 116). The majority of the German Jews were never fully assimilated and were much more Jewish than the Jews in other West European countries (p. 120) 23) "...don't kill the farmer, he's too valuable to us." (Jewish Motto). 24). "The Second World War is being fought for the defense of the fundamentals of Judaism." (Statement by Rabbi Felix Mendlesohn, Chicago Sentinel, October 8, 1942). 25). My work in those years was essentially of a propagandist nature. I was too young and unknown to play a part in the leading circles of Germany, let alone of world Zionism, which was controlled from Berlin (p. 121)." (My Life as a German Jew, Nahum Goldmann). 26). "The German revolution is the achievement of the Jews; the Liberal Democratic parties have a great number of Jews as their leaders, and the Jews play a predominant role in the high government offices." (The Jewish Tribune, July 5, 1920) 27). "I fear the Jewish banks with their craftiness and tortuous tricks will entirely control the exuberant riches of America. And use it to systematically corrupt modern civilization. The Jews will not hesitate to plunge the whole of Christendom into wars and chaos that the earth should become their inheritance." (Bismarck) 28). "The Christians are always singing about the blood. Let us give them enough of it! Let us cut their throats and drag them over the altar! And let them drown in their own blood! I dream of the day when the last priest is strangled on the guts of the last preacher." (Jewish Chairman of the American Communist Party, ••• Hall). 29). "Wars are the Jews harvest, for with them we wipe out the Christians and get control of their gold. We have already killed 100 million of them, and the end is not yet." (Chief Rabbi in France, in 1859, Rabbi Reichorn). 30). "We Jews regard our race as superior to all humanity, and look forward, not to its ultimate union with other races, but to its triumph over them." (Goldwin Smith, Jewish Professor of Modern History at Oxford University, October, 1981) 31). "We Jews, we are the destroyers and will remain the destroyers. Nothing you can do will meet our demands and needs. We will forever destroy because we want a world of our own." (You Gentiles, by Jewish Author Maurice Samuels, p. 155). 32). "We will have a world government whether you like it or not. The only question is whether that government will be achieved by conquest or consent." (Jewish Banker Paul Warburg, February 17, 1950, as he testified before the U.S. Senate). 33). "Your people are so paranoid, it is obvious we can no longer permit you to exist. We cannot allow you to spread your filthy, immoral, Christian beliefs to the rest of the world. Naturally, you oppose World Government, unless it is under your FascistChristian control. Who are you to proclaim that your ChristianAmerican way is the best? It is obvious you have never been exposed to the communist system. When nationalism is finally smashed in America. I will personally be there to firebomb your church, burn your Bibles, confiscate your firearms and take your children away. We will send them to Eastern Bloc schools and reeducate them to become the future leaders of a OneWorld Government, and to run our Socialist Republic of America. We are taking over the world and there is nothing you can do to stop us." (Letter from a Spokane, Washington Jew to Christian Pastor Sheldon Emry). 34). "We shall drive the Christians into war by exploiting their national vanity and stupidity. They will then massacre each other, thus giving room for our own people." (Rabbi Reichorn, in Le Contemporain, July 1st, 1880) 35). "World War II was a Zionist plot to make way for the foundation of the Jewish State in Palestine." (Joseph Burg, an antiZionist Jew). 36). "Hitler will have no war, but he will be forced into it, not this year but later..." (The Jewish Emil Ludwig, Les Annales, June, 1934) 37). "Even if we Jews are not bodily with you in the trenches, we are nevertheless morally with you. This is OUR WAR, and you are fighting it for us." (Les Nouvelles Litteraires, February 10, 1940). 38). "Our task is not to tell the truth; we are opinion moulders." (Walter Cronkite). 39). "Use the courts, use the judges, use the constitution of the country, use its medical societies and its laws to further our ends. Do not stint in your labor in this direction. And when you have succeeded you will discover that you can now effect your own legislation at will and you can, by careful organization, by constant campaigns about the terrors of society, by pretense as to your effectiveness, make the capitalist himself, by his own appropriation, finance a large portion of the quiet Communist conquest of that nation." (Address of the Jew Laventria Beria, The Communist Textbook on Psychopolitics, page 8). 40). "Zionism was willing to sacrifice the whole of European Jewry for a Zionist State. Everything was done to create a state of Israel and that was only possible through a world war. Wall Street and Jewish large bankers aided the war effort on both sides. Zionists are also to blame for provoking the growing hatred for Jews in 1988." (Joseph Burg, The Toronto Star, March 31, 1988). 41). "There is scarcely an event in modern history that cannot be traced to the Jews. We Jews today, are nothing else but the world's seducers, its destroyer's, its incendiaries." (Jewish Writer, Oscar Levy, The World Significance of the Russian Revolution). 42). "IN WHATEVER COUNTRY JEWS HAVE SETTLED IN ANY GREAT NUMBERS, THEY HAVE LOWERED ITS MORAL TONE; depreciated its commercial integrity; have segregated themselves and have not been assimilated; HAVE SNEERED AT AND TRIED TO UNDERMINE THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION UPON WHICH THAT NATION IS FOUNDED by objecting to its restrictions; have built up a state within a state; and when opposed have tried to strangle that country to death financially, as in the case of Spain and Portugal. For over 1700 years the Jews have been bewailing their sad fate in that they have been exiled from their homeland, they call Palestine. But, Gentlemen, SHOULD THE WORLD TODAY GIVE IT TO THEM IN FEE SIMPLE, THEY WOULD AT ONCE FIND SOME COGENT REASON FOR NOT RETURNING. Why? BECAUSE THEY ARE VAMPIRES, ANDVAMPIRES DO NOT LIVE ON VAMPIRES. THEY CANNOT LIVE ONLY AMONG THEMSELVES. THEY MUST SUBSIST ON CHRISTIANS AND OTHER PEOPLE NOT OF THEIR RACE. If you do not exclude them from these United States, in this Constitution in less than 200 years THEY WILL HAVE SWARMED IN SUCH GREAT NUMBERS THAT THEY WILL DOMINATE AND DEVOUR THE LAND, AND CHANGE OUR FORM OF GOVERNMENT [which they have done they have changed it from a Republic to a Democracy], for which we Americans have shed our blood, given our lives, our substance and jeopardized our liberty. If you do not exclude them, in less than 200 years OUR DESCENDANTS WILL BE WORKING IN THE FIELDS TO FURNISH THEM SUSTENANCE, WHILE THEY WILL BE IN THE COUNTING HOUSES RUBBING THEIR HANDS. I warn you, Gentlemen, if you do not exclude the Jews for all time, your children will curse you in your graves. Jews, Gentlemen, are Asiatics; let them be born where they will, or how many generations they are away from Asia, they will never be otherwise. THEIR IDEAS DO NOT CONFORM TO AN AMERICAN'S, AND WILL NOT EVEN THOUGH THEY LIVE AMONG US TEN GENERATIONS. A LEOPARD CANNOT CHANGE ITS SPOTS. JEWS ARE ASIATICS, THEY ARE A MENACE TO THIS COUNTRY IF PERMITTED ENTRANCE and should be excluded by this Constitution." (by Benjamin Franklin, who was one of the six founding fathers designated to draw up The Declaration of Independence. He spoke before the Constitutional Congress in May 1787, and asked that Jews be barred from immigrating to America. The above are his exact words as quoted from the diary of General Charles Pickney of Charleston, S.C.). 43). "...[We] must stop these swarms of Jews who are trading, bartering and robbing." (General William Sherman). 44). "In [preWW II] Berlin, for example, when the Nazis came to power, 50.2% of the lawyers were Jews...48% of the doctors were Jews. The Jews owned the largest and most important Berlin newspapers, and made great inroads on the educational system." (The House That Hitler Built, by Stephen Roberts, 1937). 45). "We must realize that our party's most powerful weapon is racial tension. By pounding into the consciousness of the dark races, that for centuries they have been oppressed by whites, we can mold them into the program of the Communist Party. In America, we aim for several victories. While inflaming the Negro minorities against the whites, we will instill in the whites a guilt complex for their supposed exploitation of the Negroes. We will aid the Blacks to rise to prominence in every walk of life and in the world of sports and entertainment. With this prestige,, the Negro will be able to intermarry with the whites and will begin the process which will deliver America to our cause." (Jewish Playwright Israel Cohen, A Radical Program For The Twentieth Century. Also entered into the Congressional Record on June 7, 1957, by Rep. Thomas Abernathy). 46). "Give me control of the money of a country and I care not who makes her laws." (Meyer Rothschild) 47). "...there is much in the fact of Bolshevism itself. In the fact that so many Jews are Bolsheviks. In the fact that the ideals of Bolshevism are consonant with the finest ideals of Judaism." (The Jewish Chronicle, April 4, 1918) 48). "Israel won the war [WW I]; we made it; we thrived on it; we profited from it. It was our supreme revenge on Christianity." (The Jewish Ambassador from Austria to London, Count Mensdorf, 1918). 49). "...Each of you, Jew and gentile alike, who has not already enlisted in the sacred war should do so now..." (Samuel Undermeyer, Radio Broadcast, New York City, August 6, 1933) 50). "Dear Sirs: A. Mr. John Sherman has written us from a town in Ohio, U.S.A., as to the profits that may be made in the National Banking business under a recent act of your Congress (National Bank Act of 1863), a copy of which act accompanied his letter. Apparently this act has been drawn upon the plan formulated here last summer by the British Bankers Association and by that Association recommended to our American friends as one that if enacted into law, would prove highly profitable to the banking fraternity throughout the world. Mr. Sherman declares that there has never before been such an opportunity for capitalists to accumulate money, as that presented by this act and that the old plan, of State Banks is so unpopular, that the new scheme will, by contrast, be most favorably regarded, notwithstanding the fact that it gives the national Banks an almost absolute control of the National finance. 'The few who can understand the system,' he says 'will either be so interested in its profits, or so dependent on its favors, that there will be no opposition from that class, while on the other hand, the great body of people, mentally incapable of comprehending the tremendous advantages that capital derives from the system, will bear its burdens without even suspecting that the system is inimical to their interests.' Please advise us fully as to this matter and also state whether or not you will be of assistance to us, if we conclude to establish a National Bank in the City of New York...Awaiting your reply, we are." (Rothschild Brothers. London, June 25, 1863. Famous Quotes On Money). 51). "The forces of reaction are being mobilized. A combination of England, France and Russia will sooner or later bar the triumphal march of the crazed Fuhrer. Either by accident or design, a Jews has come into the position of the foremost importance in each of these nations. In the hands of nonAryans, lie the very lives of millions...and when the smoke of battle clears, and the trumpets blare no more, and the bullets cease to blast! Then will be presented a tableau showing the man who played. God, the swastika Christus, being lowered none too gently into a hole in the ground, as a trio of nonAryans, in tone a ramified requiem, that sounds suspiciously like a medley of Marseillaise, God Save the King, and the international; blending in the grand finale, into a militant, proud arrangement of Eile! Elie! [This is the traditional Jewish cry of triumph]. (The American Hebrew, New York City, June 3, 1938). 52). "All Jews world wide declared war on the Third Reich." (The London Daily Express, Front Page Story, 3/24/1933). 53). "Which are you first, a Jew or an American? A Jew." (David Ben Gurion) 54). "The great ideal of Judaism is that the whole world shall be imbued with Jewish teachings, and that in a Universal Brotherhood of Nations a greater Judaism, in fact ALL THE SEPARATE RACES and RELIGIONS SHALL DISAPPEAR." (Jewish World, February 9, 1883). 55). "Some call it Marxism I call it Judaism." (The American Bulletin, Rabbi S. Wise, May 5, 1935). 56). "There is only one Power which really counts: The Power of Political Pressure. We Jews are the most powerful people on Earth, because we have this power, and we know how to apply it." (Jewish Daily Bulletin, July 27, 1935). 57). "[Jews were] fomenting a general plague on the whole world." (Claudis, Roman Emperor, Epistolas). 58). "The Rothschilds introduced the rule of money into European politics. The Rothschilds were the servants of money who undertook the reconstruction of the world as an image of money and its functions. Money and the employment of wealth have become the law of European life; we no longer have nations, but economic provinces." (New York Times, Professor Wilheim, a German historian, July 8, 1937). 59). "If you will look back at every war in Europe during the nineteenth century, you will see that they always ended with the establishment of a 'balance of power.' With every reshuffling there was a balance of power in a new grouping around the House of Rothschild in England, France, or Austria. They grouped nations so that if any king got out of line, a war would break out and the war would be decided by which way the financing went. Researching the debt positions of the warring nations will usually indicate who was to be punished." (Economist Sturat Crane). 60). "He received me not only cordially, but he was also full of confidence with respect to the war. His first words, after he had welcomed me, were as follows: 'Well, Dr. Weismann, we have as good as beaten them already.' I...thanked him for his constant support for the Zionist course. 'You were standing at the cradle of this enterprise.' I said to him, 'and hopefully you will live to see that we have succeeded.' Adding that after the war we would build up a state of three to four million Jews in Palestine, whereupon he replied: 'Yes, go ahead, I am full in agreement with this idea.'" (Conversation between Chaim Weismann and Winston Churchill). 61). "In death as in life, I defy the Jews who caused this last war [WW II], and I defy the powers of darkness which they represent. I am proud to die for my ideals, and I am sorry for the sons of Britain who have died without knowing why." (William Joyce's [Lord Ha Ha] last words just before Britain executed him for anti war activism in WW II). 62). "We are not denying and we are not afraid to confess, this war is our war and that it is waged for the liberation of Jewry...Stronger than all fronts together is our front, that of Jewry. We are not only giving this war our financial support on which the entire war production is based. We are not only providing our full propaganda power which is the moral energy that keeps this war going. The guarantee of victory is predominantly based on weakening the enemy forces, on destroying them in their own country, within the resistance. And we are the Trojan Horses in the enemy's fortress. Thousands of Jews living in Europe constitute the principal factor in the destruction of our enemy. There, our front is a fact and the most valuable aid for victory." (Chaim Weizmann, President of the World Jewish Congress, in a Speech on December 3, 1942, in New York City). 63). "It is highly probable that the bulk of the Jew's ancestors 'never' lived in Palestine 'at all,' which witnesses the power of historical assertion over fact." (H. G. Wells, The Outline of History). 64). "...This weakness of the President [Roosevelt] frequently results in failure on the part of the White House to report all the facts to the Senate and the Congress; its [The Administration] description of the prevailing situation is not always absolutely correct and in conformity with the truth...When I lived in America, I learned that Jewish personalities most of them rich donors for the parties had easy access to the President. They used to contact him over the head of the Foreign Secretary and the representative at the United Nations and other officials. They were often in a position to alter the entire political line by a single telephone conversation...Stephen Wise...occupied a unique position, not only within American Jewry, but also generally in America...He was a close friend of Wilson...he was also an intimate friend of Roosevelt and had permanent access to him, a factor which naturally affected his relations to other members of the American Administration...Directly after this, the President's car stopped in front of the veranda, and before we could exchange greetings, Roosevelt remarked: 'How interesting! Sam Roseman, Stephen Wise and Nahum Goldman are sitting there discussing what order they should give the President of the United States. Just imagine what amount of money the Nazis would pay to obtain a photo of this scene.' We began to stammer to the effect that there was an urgent message from Europe to be discussed by us, which Rosenman would submit to him on Monday. Roosevelt dismissed him with the words: 'This is quite all right, on Monday I shall hear from Sam what I have to do,' and he drove on." (USA, Europe, Israel, Nahum Goldmann, pp. 53, 6667, 116). 65). "Dear beloved brethren in Moses: We have received your letter in which you tell us of the anxieties and misfortunes which you are enduring. We are pierced by as great pain to hear it as yourselves. The advice of the Grand Satraps and Rabbis is the following: As for what you say that the King of France obliges you to become Christians: do it; since you cannot do otherwise...As for what you say about the command to despoil you of your goods make your sons merchants, that little by little they may despoil the Christians of theirs. As for what you say about their attempts on your lives; make your sons doctors and apothecaries, that they may take away Christian lives. As for what you say of their destroying your synagogues; make your sons canons and clerics in order that they may destroy their churches. As for the many other vexationsyou complain of: arrange that you sons become advocates and lawyers, and see that they always mix themselves up with the affairs of State, in order that by putting Christians under your yoke you may dominate the world and be avenged on them. Do not swerve from this order that we give you, because you will find by experience that, humiliated as you are, you will reach the actuality of power." (Constantinople Elders of Jewry). 66). "[Jews] ate the English nation to its bones." (John Speed, British Historian, in Historie of Great Britaine). 67). 1652 England was involved in another contrived war with the Dutch. All of these wars and skirmishes were financed by the Jewish money lenders with funds loaned at usury. 68). "But it has paid us even though we have sacrificed many of our own people. Each victim on our side is worth a thousand Goyim." (Statement reported in a French Newspaper in 1773 after a meeting in the Rothschild home). 69). "Will grant financial aid as soon as Charles removed, and Jews admitted. Assassination too dangerous. Charles should be given an opportunity to escape. His recapture will then make a trial and execution possible. The support will be liberal, but useless to discuss terms until trial commences." (Letter from Ebenezer Pratt to Oliver Cromwell ibid) 70). "Marriages began to take place, wholesale, between what had once been the aristocratic territorial families of this country and the Jewish commercial fortunes. After two generations of this, with the opening of the twentieth century those of the great territorial English families in which there was no Jewish blood were the exception. In nearly all of them was the strain more or less marked, in some of them so strong that though the name was still an English name and the traditions those of purely English lineage of the long past, the physique and character had become wholly Jewish and the members of the family were taken for Jews whenever they travelled in countries where the gentry had not suffered or enjoyed this admixture." (The Jews, by Hilaire Belloc) 71). "Judaism was not a religion but a law." (Moses Mendeissohn, The Jewish Plato) 72). "The turning point in history will be the moment man becomes aware that the only god of man is man himself." (Henri de Lubec, Atheistic Humanist, p. 10) 73). "It is necessary to gain the common people to our order. The best means to that end is influence in the schools." (The Jewish Founder of the Illuminati, Adam Weishaupt) 74). "A mind that is positive cannot be controlled. For the purpose of occult dominion, minds must therefore be rendered passive and negative in order that control may be achieved. Minds consciously working to a definite end are a power for good or for evil." (Occult Theocracy, p. 581) 75). "In return for financial support will advocate admission of Jews to England; This however impossible while Charles living. Charles cannot be executed without trial on adequate grounds for which do not presently exist. Therefore advise that Charles be assassinated, but will have nothing to do with arrangements for procuring an assassin, though willing to help in his escape. [King Charles I was in prison at the time] (Letter from Oliver Cromwell to Ebenezer Pratt History Of The Bank of England, by Frances and Menasseh Ben Israel's Mission To Oliver Cromwell, The Jewish Intelligencers, by Lucien Wolf). 76). Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels said Blacks: "...were people who ought to be eradicated and swept from the earth." (Karl Marx, by Nathaniel Weyl). 77). The Jewish owned Social Democratic Herald, on September 14, 1901, characterized Negroes as "inferior...depraved elements' who went around 'raping women and children.'" 78). "Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels," Weyl writes, "were neither internationalists nor believers in equal rights of all the races and peoples. They opposed the struggles for national independence of those races and peoples that they despised. They believed that the 'barbaric' and 'ahistoric' peoples who comprised the immense majority of mankind had played no significant role in history and were not destined to do so in the foreseeable future." (Karl Marx, by Nathaniel Weyl). 79). "These were ideas," the author notes, "which Marx would adopt and transform... Publicly and for political reasons, both Marx and Engels posed as friends of the Negro. In private, they were antiBlack racists of the most odious sort. They had contempt for the entire Negro Race, a contempt they expressed by comparing Negroes to animals, by identifying Black people with 'idiots' and by continuously using the opprobrious term 'Nigger' in their private correspondence." (Nathaniel Weyl). 80). In an article by the Jew Victor Berger, one of the national leaders of the Socialist Party, wrote, in the Social Democratic Herald: "There can be no doubt that the Negroes and Mulattos constitute a lower race." 81). "...the main purveyors of funds for the revolution, however, were neither the crackpot Russian millionaires nor the armed bandits of Lenin. The 'real' money primarily came from certain British and American circles which for a long time past had lent their support to the Russian revolutionary cause...The important part played by the wealthy American Jewish Banker, Jacob Schiff, in the events in Russia...is no longer a secret." (Red Symphony, p. 252) 82). The above was confirmed by the New York Journal American of February 3, 1949: "Today it is estimated by Jacob's grandson, John Schiff, that the old man sank about $20million for the final triumph of Bolshevism in Russia." 83). "Jews may adopt the customs and language of the countries where they live; but they will never become part of the native population." (The Jewish Courier, January 17, 1924). 84). "The founding prophet of the leftist faith, Karl Marx, was born in 1818, the son of a Jewish father who changed his name from Herschel to Heinrich and converted to Christianity to advance his career. The young Marx grew into a man consumed by hatred for Christianity. Internationalizing the worst antichrist stereotypes, he incorporated them into his early revolutionary vision, identifying Jews as symbols of the system of private property and bourgeois democracy he wanted to further. 'The god of the Jews had been secularized and has become the god of this world,' Marx wrote. 'Money is the jealous god of the Jews, beside which no other god may stand.' Once the Revolution succeeds in 'destroying the empirical essence of Christianity, he promised, 'the Jew will become the rulers of the world. This early Marxist formulation is the transparent seed of the mature vision, causing Paul Johnson to characterize Marxism as 'the antichristian of the intellectuals.' The international Communist creed that Marx invented is a creed of hate. The solution that Marx proposed to the Christian 'problem' was to eliminate the system that 'creates' the Christian. The Jews, he said, 'are only symptoms of a more extensive evil that must eradicate capitalism. The Jews are only symbols of a more pervasive enemy that must be destroyed; capitalists.' In the politics of the left, racist hatred is directed not only against Christian capitalists but against all capitalists; not only against capitalists, but anyone who is not poor, and who is White; and ultimately against Western Civilization itself. The Marxist revolution is antichrist elevated to a global principle." (David Horowitz, Human Events). 85). "[From]...The days of Spartacus Weishaupt to those of Karl Marx, to those of Trotsky, BelaKuhn, Rosa Luxembourg and Emma Goldman, this worldwide [Jewish] conspiracy...has been steadily growing. This conspiracy played a definitely recognizable role in the tragedy of the French Revolution. It has been the mainspring of every subversive movement during the nineteenth century; and now at last this band of extraordinary personalities from the underworld of the great cities of Europe and America have gripped the Russian people by the hair of their heads, and have become practically the undisputed masters of that enormous empire." (Winston Churchill, Illustrated Sunday Herald, February 8, 1920). 86). "The confusion of the average Christian comes from the action of the clergy. Confusion creates doubt! Doubt brings loss of confidence! Loss of confidence brings loss of interest! There need be no confusion in the minds of Christians concerning the fundamentals of the faith. It would not exist of the clergy were not 'aiding and abetting' their worst enemies [Jews]. Many clergymen are their [Jews] allies, without realizing it, while other have become deliberate 'male prostitutes' to their cause. When Christians see their leaders in retreat which can only bring defeat they are confused and afraid. To stop this surrender, the clergy must make an about face immediately and take a stand against the invisible and intangible ideological war which is subversively being waged against the Christian faith." (Facts Are Facts, Jew, Dr. Benjamin Freedman ). 87). "We are neither German, English or French. We are Jews and your Christian mentality is not ours." (Max Nordau, a German Zionist Leader, in The Jewish World) 88). "Let me tell you the following words as if I were showing you the rings of a ladder leading upward and upward...The Zionist Congress; the English Uganda proposition; the future World War; the Peace Conference where, with the help of England, a free and Jewish Palestine will be created." (Max Nordau, 6th Zionist Congress in Balse, Switzerland, 1903) 89). "As Christians learn how selfstyled Jews have spent millions of dollars to manufacture the 'Jewish myth' for Christian consumption and that they have done this for economic and political advantage, you will see a tremendous explosion against the Jews. Right thinking Jewish leaders are worried about this, since they see it coming." (Facts are Facts by Jew, Benjamin Freedman) 90). "The guidance and control of America has gravitated into the hands of those least worthy of trusteeship. One of their most notable achievements, has been the making of 'male prostitutes' who do the dirty work for them [Jews]. A 'male prostitute' is a male who offers the facilities of his anatomy from the neck up, to anyone who is willing to pay the price, exactly as a female prostitute of the same species offers her body from the waist down. Thousands of these 'pseudoChristian 'male prostitutes male prostitutes are circulating in all walks of life, pandering to evil propaganda for monetary profit and political power." (Facts Are Facts, by Jew, Benjamin Freedman). 91). "The chief difficulty in writing about the Jewish Question is the supersensitiveness of Jews and nonJews concerning the whole matter. There is a vague feeling that even to openly use the word 'Jew,' or expose it nakedly to print is somehow improper. Polite evasions like 'Hebrew' and 'Semite,' both of which are subject to the criticism of inaccuracy, are timidly essayed, and people pick their way gingerly as if the whole subject were forbidden, until some courageous Jewish thinker comes straight out with the old old word 'Jew,' and then the constraint is relieved and the air cleared...A Jew is a Jew and as long as he remains within his perfectly unassailable traditions, he will remain a Jew. And he will always have the right to feel that to be a Jew, is to belong to a superior race. No one knows better than the Jew how widespread the notion that Jewish methods of business are all unscrupulous. No existing Gentile system of government is ever anything but distasteful to him. The Jew is against the Gentile scheme of things. He is, when he gives his tendencies full sway, a Republican as against the monarchy, a Socialist as against the republic, and a Bolshevik as against Socialism. Democracy is all right for the rest of the world, but the Jew wherever he is found forms an aristocracy of one sort or another." (Henry Ford, Dearborn Independent) 92). "We are disturbed about the effect of the Jewish influence on our press, radio, and motion pictures. It may become very serious. (Fulton) Lewis told us of one instance where the Jewish advertising firms threatened to remove all their advertising from the Mutual System if a certain feature was permitted to go on the air. The threat was powerful enough to have the feature removed." (Charles A. Lindberg, Wartime Journals, May 1, 1941). 93). "Competition is a sin." (John D. Rockefeller) 94). "From the days of Adam (Spartacus) Weishaupt, to those of Karl Marx to those of Trotsky, Bela Kun, Rosa Luxemburg and Emma Goldman. This worldwide conspiracy for the overthrow of civilization and for the reconstruction of society on the basis of arrested development, of envious malevolence and impossible equality, has been steadily growing...There is no need to exaggerate the part played in the creation of Bolshevism and in the actual bringing about of the Russian Revolution by these international, and for the most part, atheistic Jews. It is certainly a very great one: it probably outweighs all others. With the notable exception of Lenin, the majority of the leading figures are Jews. Moreover, the principal inspiration and driving power comes from the Jewish leaders." (Winston Churchill, Sunday Illustrated Herald, London, England, February 8, 1920) 95). "We were told that hundreds of agitators had followed in the trail of Trotsky (Bronstein) these men having come over from the lower east side of New York. Some of them when they learned that I was the American Pastor in Petrograd, stepped up to me and seemed very much pleased that there was somebody who could speak English, and their broken English showed that they had not qualified as being Americas. A number of these men called on me and were impressed with the strange Yiddish element in this thing right from the beginning, and it soon became evident that more than half the agitators in the socalled Bolshevik movement were Jews...I have a firm conviction that this thing is Yiddish, and that one of its bases is found in the east side of New York...The latest startling information, given me by someone with good authority, startling information, is this, that in December, 1918, in the northern community of Petrograd that is what they call the section of the Soviet regime under the Presidency of the man known as Apfelbaum (Zinovieff) out of 388 members, only 16 happened to be real Russians, with the exception of one man, a Negro from America who calls himself Professor Gordon. I was impressed with this, Senator, that shortly after the great revolution of the winter of 1917, there were scores of Jews standing on the benches and soap boxes, talking until their mouths frothed, and I often remarked to my sister, 'Well, what are we coming to anyway. This all looks so Yiddish.' Up to that time we had see very few Jews, because there was, as you know, a restriction against having Jews in Petrograd, but after the revolution they swarmed in there and most of the agitators were Jews. I might mention this, that when the Bolshevik came into power all over Petrograd, we at once had a predominance of Yiddish proclamations, big posters and everything in Yiddish. It became very evident that now that was to be one of the great languages of Russia; and the real Russians did not take kindly to it." (Dr. George A. Simons, a former superintendent of the Methodist Missions in Russia, Bolshevik Propaganda Hearing Before the SubCommittee of the Committee on the Judiciary, United States Senate, 65th Congress) 96). "The pressure for war is mounting. The people are opposed to it, but the Administration seems hellbent on its way to war. Most of the Jewish interests in the country are behind war." (Charles Lindberg, Wartime Journals, May 1, 1941). 97). "We are interested in just the opposite...in the diminution, the killing out of the Goyim." (Reportedly spoken by a Jewish speaker in the Rothschild home in 1773) 98). "The greatest danger to this country lies in their large ownership and influence in our motion pictures, our press, our radio and our government." (Charles A. Lindberg, Speech at Des Moines, Iowa, September 11, 1941). 99). "When one lives in contact with the functionaries who are serving the Bolshevik Government, one feature strikes the attention, which, is almost all of them are Jews. I am not at all anti-Semitic; but I must state what strikes the eye: everywhere in Petrograd, Moscow, in provincial districts, in commissariats, in district offices, in Smolny, in the Soviets, I have met nothing but Jews and again Jews...The more one studies the revolution the more one is convinced that Bolshevism is a Jewish movement which can be explained by the special conditions in which the Jewish people were placed in Russia." (L'Illustration, September 14, 1918)" 100). "The Gulag Archipelago, 'he informed an incredulous world that the blood-maddened Jewish terrorists had murdered sixty-six million victims in Russia from 1918 to 1957! Solzhenitsyn cited Cheka Order No. 10, issued on January 8, 1921: 'To intensify the repression of the bourgeoisie.'" (Alexander Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago) 101). "The Jews are the master robbers of the modern age." (Napoleon Bonaparte) 102). "It being true that the Delanos are wellknown Jews from the Netherlands, President Roosevelt is, from the standpoint of Jewish Heredity Law, as good a Jew as Bernard M. Baruch." (Letter of May 14, 1939, by Dr. von Leers) 103). "In an address to the National Convention of the Daughters of the American Revolution, President Franklin Delano Roosevelt, said that he was of revolutionary ancestry. But not a Roosevelt was in the Colonial Army. They were Tories, busy entertaining British Officers. The first Roosevelt came to America in 1649. His name was Claes Rosenfelt. He was a Jew. Nicholas, the son of Claes was the ancestor of both Franklin and Theodore. He married a Jewish girl, named Kunst, in 1682. Nicholas had a son named Jacobus Rosenfeld..." (The Corvallis Gazette Times of Corballis, Oregon). 104). "At once the veil falls," comments Dr. von Leers. "F.D.R'S father married Sarah Delano; and it becomes clear Schmalix [genealogist] writes: 'In the seventh generation we see the mother of Franklin Delano Roosevelt as being of Jewish descent. The Delanos are descendants of an Italian or Spanish Jewish family Dilano, Dilan, Dillano. The Jew Delano drafted an agreement with the West Indian Co., in 1657 regarding the colonization of the island of Curacao. About this the directors of the West Indies Co., had correspondence with the Governor of New Holland. In 1624 numerous Jews had settled in North Brazil, which was under Dutch Dominion. The old German traveler Uienhoff, who was in Brazil between 1640 and 1649, reports: 'Among the Jewish settlers the greatest number had emigrated from Holland.' The reputation of the Jews was so bad that the Dutch Governor Stuyvesant (1655) demand that their immigration be prohibited in the newly founded colony of New Amsterdam (New York). It would be interesting to investigate whether the Family Delano belonged to these Jews whom theDutch Governor did not want. It is known that the Sephardic Jewish families which came from Spain and Portugal always intermarried; and the assumption exists that the Family Delano, despite (socalled) Christianconfession, remained purely Jewish so far as race is concerned. What results? The mother of the late President Roosevelt was a Delano. According to Jewish Law (Schulchan Aruk, Ebenaezer IV) the woman is the bearer of the heredity. That means: children of a fullblooded Jewess and a Christian are, according to Jewish Law, Jews. It is probable that the Family Delano kept the Jewish blood clean, and that the late President Roosevelt, according to Jewish Law, was a blooded Jew even if one assumes that the father of the late President was Aryan. We can now understand why Jewish associations call him the 'New Moses;' why he gets Jewish medals highest order of the Jewish people. For every Jew who is acquainted with the law, he is evidently one of them." (Hakenkreuzbanner, May 14, 1939, Prof. Dr. Johann von Leers of BerlinDahlem, Germany) 105). "The Jews...are at the root of regicide, they own the periodical press, they have in their hands the financial markets, the people as a whole fall into financial slavery to them..." (The Siege, p. 38) 106). "They are the carrion birds of humanity...[speaking of the Jews] are a state within a state. They are certainly not real citizens...The evils of Jews do not stem from individuals but from the fundamental nature of these people." (Napoleon Bonaparte, Stated in Reflections and Speeches before the Council of State on April 30 and May 7, 1806) 107). "The Jew continues to monopolize money, and he loosens or strangles the throat of the state with the loosening or strengthening of his purse strings...He has empowered himself with the engines of the press, which he uses to batter at the foundations of society. He is at the bottom of...every enterprise that will demolish first of all thrones, afterwards the altar, afterwards civil law." (Hungarian composer Franz Liszt (1811-1886) in Die Israeliten.) 108). "For the last one hundred and fifty years, the history of the House of Rothschild has been to an amazing degree the backstage history of Western Europe...Because of their success in making loans not to individuals but to nations, they reaped huge profits...Someone once said that the wealth of Rothschild consists of the bankruptcy of nations." (Frederic Morton, The Rothschilds) 109). "The fact that: The house of Rothschild made its money in the great crashes of history and the great wars of history, the very periods when others lost their money, is beyond question." (E.C. Knuth, The Empire of the City) 110). "The influence of the Jews may be traced in the last outbreak of the destructive principle in Europe. An insurrection takes place against tradition and aristocracy, against religion and property. Destruction of the Semitic principle, extirpation of the Jewish religion, whether in the Mosaic or the Christian form, the natural equality of man and the abrogation of property, are proclaimed by the secret societies who form proviso governments, and men of the Jewish race are found at the head of every one of them. The people of God cooperate with atheists; themost skillful accumulators of property ally themselves with Communists; the peculiar and chosen race touch the hand of all the scum and low caste of Europe! And all this because they wish to destroy that ungrateful Christendom they can no longer endure." (Disraeli, Life of Lord Bentinick pp. 49798) http://www.iahushua.com/JQ/
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| | Monday, February 12, 2001 - 10:58 am MM I think you are putting too much weight on the effects of short-term political manouverings in a region with stubbornly unshort-term political dilemmas. It gives me no pleasure to agree with people who like to define their world in terms of religious loyalties, but I think ANON and Co are right this time, despite their hallmark conspiratorial and petty narrow-mindedness. Sharon's election will have no major strategic impact on the overall situation in the middle-east. Whoever rules Israel, no matter their political persuasion, will always seek to negotiate with the Arabs. Both sides understand there is no alternative. Sharon fully well knows that while Israel can fight and win against any Arab nation or nations in a frontal war, it cannot defeat a civilian uprising with military might. The Palestinians, buoyed by Arab moral and material support know they can sustain their low-intensity conflict almost indefinetely, but can never win an outright victory. This simple realty will force both sides to the negotiating table. In fact, in a perverse way, Sharon's election may serve as a catalyst for a renewed peace intiatives in the region. Arab states will be forced to unite by popular outrage, and they in turn will pressure America and Europe to lean on Israel to compromise. This process is already underway. Saddam's Iraq maybe welcomed for the first time since the Gulf war into the Arab league summit, a clear message to both Sharon and the Bush administration that Arabs want America to act. But even if that fails to materialise, the P'tinians will continue their Intifada, and rightly so. They are an occupied nation and they are entitled to struggle using all the means at their disposal. We forget this fact and we are at serious risk of compromising the universally accepted principle of freedom, justice and self-determination for all.
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| | Monday, February 12, 2001 - 11:28 am galool----welcome back. you've disappeared and i've not seen you since tuesday, January 23, 2001. "It gives me no pleasure to agree with people who like to define their world in terms of religious loyalties, but I think ANON and Co are right this time," do you think i appreciate if an *iconoclast* like you agrees with me or not? ;-) "despite their hallmark conspiratorial and petty narrow-mindedness." i remember you arguing on another page http://somalinet.com/forums_archives/4669/14428.html and saying if one feels sympathy towards the palestinians it means "fighting" for them! and i asked you "if feeling sympathy toward palestinians means fighting for them, then respecting the jews means fighting for the jews, right? ;-) when people talk about the jews and tell the truth of their wicked ways, you and the jews accuse the people--- anti-semitism-------as if the arabs are not semite. i guess whenever you and the jews talk about the arabs and tell what they do, we should accuse you also----anti-semitism, right? what a double standard. ;-)
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| | Monday, February 12, 2001 - 12:08 pm Nazis, Serbs and other similar creatures are the epitome world scum, and lower than them are Jews who helped them. The purpose of the following chronicle is two fold. First, it is not intended to boast the sad genocidal crimes of Jews against Jews during the Holocaust, instead it is to clarify that certain groups for various reasons commit crimes, Jewish groups too, and an entire religion (i.e. Islam, Christianity, Hinduism.....), should not be demonized for the actions of a few individuals. Because as we have seen from WWII, when all of the Jews were demonized as Christ killers, the result was deadly. Second, the reason for this document is to show that we must not be brainwashed to think that our foes are our friends, and our friends are our foes, the rare appearance of the facts listed here is proof of how history can be manipulated: In 1938 July 6-15, President Roosevelt convened the Evian conference to deal with the Jewish refugee problem. The Jewish Agency delegation headed by Golda Meir (Meirson) ignored a German offer to allow Jews to emigrate to other countries for $250 a head, and the other Jewish groups made no effort to influence the United States and the 32 other countries attending the conference to allow immigration of German and Austrian Jews. [Source] On Feb 1, 1940 Henry Montor executive vice-President of the United Jewish Appeal refused to intervene for a shipload of Jewish refugees stranded on the Danube river, stating that "Palestine cannot be flooded with... old people or with undesirables." [Source] It is an historical fact that in 1941 and again in 1942, the German Gestapo offered all European Jews transit to Spain, if they would relinquish all their property in Germany and Occupied France; on condition that: a) none of the deportees travel from Spain to Palestine; and b) all the deportees be transported from Spain to the USA or British colonies, and there to remain; with entry visas to be arranged by the Jews living there; and c) $1000.00 ransom for each family to be furnished by the Agency, payable upon the arrival of the family at the Spanish border at the rate of 1000 families daily. The Jewsish leaders in Switzerland and Turkey received this offer with the clear understanding that the exclusion of Palestine as a destination for the deportees was based on an agreement between the Gestapo and the Mufti. The answer of the Jewish leaders was negative, with the following comments: a) ONLY Palestine would be considered as a destination for the deportees. b) The European Jews must accede to suffering and death greater in measure than the other nations, in order that the victorious allies agree to a "Jewish State" at the end of the war. c) No ransom will be paid This response to the Gestapo's offer was made with the full knowledge that the alternative to this offer was the gas chamber. In 1944, at the time of the Hungarian deportations, a similar offer was made, whereby all Hungarian Jewry could be saved. The same Jewish hierarchy again refused this offer (after the gas chambers had already taken a toll of millions). The British government granted visas to 300 rabbis and their families to the Colony of Mauritius, with passage for the evacuees through Turkey. The "Jewish Agency" leaders sabotaged this plan with the observation that the plan was disloyal to Palestine, and the 300 rabbis and their families should be gassed. On December 17, 1942 both houses of the British Parliament declared its readiness to find temporary refuge for endagered persons. The British Parliament proposed to evacuate 500,000 Jews from Europe, and resettle them in British colonies, as a part of diplomatic negotiations with Germany. This motion received within two weeks a total of 277 Parliamentary signatures. On Jan. 27, when the next steps were being pursued by over 100 M.P.'s and Lords, a spokesman for the Zionists announced that the Jews would oppose the motion because Palestine was ommitted. [Source] On Feb. 16, 1943 Roumania offered 70,000 Jewish refugees of the Trans-Dniestria to leave at the cost of $50 each. This was publicized in the New York papers. Yitzhak Greenbaum, Chairman of the Rescue Committee of the Jewish Agency, addressing the Zionist Executive Council in Tel Aviv Feb. 18 1943 said, "when they asked me, "couldn't you give money out of the United Jewish Appeal funds for the rescue of Jews in Europe, I said NO! and I say again, NO!...one should resist this wave which pushes the Zionist activities to secondary importance." On Feb. 24, 1943 Stephen Wise, President of the American Jewish Congress and leader of the American Zionists issued a public refusal to this offer and declared no collection of funds would seem justified. In 1944, the Emergency Committee to Save the Jewish People called upon the American government to establish a War Refugee Board. Stephen Wise testifying before a special committee of Congress objected to this proposal. [Source] During the course of the negotiations mentioned above, Chaim Weizman, the first "Jewish statesman" stated: "The most valuable part of the Jewish nation is already in Palestine, and those Jews living outside Palestine are not too important". Weizman's cohort, Greenbaum, amplified this statement with the observation "One cow in Palestine is worth more than all the Jews in Europe". And then, after the bitterest episode in Jewish history, these Zionist "statesmen" lured the broken refugees in the DP camps to remain in hunger and deprivation, and to refuse relocation to any place but Palestine; only for the purpose of building their State. In 1947 Congressman William Stration sponsored a bill to immediately grant entry to the United States of 400,000 displaced persons. The bill was not passed after it was publicly denounced by the Zionist leadership. [Source] These facts are read with consternation and unbearable shame. How can it be explained that at a time during the last phase of the war, when the Nazis were willing to barter Jews for money, partly because of their desires to establish contact with the Western powers which, they believed, were under Jewish influence, how was it possible one asks that the self-proclaimed "Jewish leaders" did not move heaven and earth to save the last remnant of their brothers? On Feb. 23, 1956 the Hon. J. W. Pickersgill, Minister for Immigration was asked in the Canadian House of Commons "would he open the doors of Canada to Jewish refugees". He replied "the government has made no progress in that direction because the government of Israel....does not wish us to do so". [Source] In 1972, the Zionist leadership successfully opposed an effort in the United States Congress to allow 20,000-30,000 Russian refugees to enter the United States. Jewish relief organizations, Joint and HIAS, were being pressured to abandon these refugees in Vienna, Rome and other Europiean cities. [Source] The pattern is clear!!! Humanitarian rescue efforts are subverted to narrow Zionist interests. There were many more shocking crimes committed by these abject degenerates known as "Jewish statesmen", we could list many more example, but for the time being let anyone produce a valid excuse for the above facts. Jewish responsibility for the Holocaust is threefold. The Holocaust was a punishment for disrespecting The Three Oaths (see Talmud, Tractate Kesubos p. 111a). Jewish leaders openly withheld support, both financially and otherwise, to save their fellow brothers and sisters from a cruel death. The leaders of the Zionist movement cooperated with Hitler and his cohorts on many occasions and in many ways. Jews Offer a Military Alliance with Hitler It would be wishful thinking if it could be stated that the leaders of the Zionist movement sat back and ignored the plight of their dying brothers and sisters. Not only did they publicly refuse to assist in their rescue, but they actively participated with Hitler and the Nazi regime. Early in 1935, a passenger ship bound for Haifa in Palestine left the German port of Bremerhaven. Its stern bore the Hebrew letter for its name, "Tel Aviv", while a swastika banner fluttered from the mast. And although the ship was Zionist owned, its captain was a National Socialist Party (Nazi) member. Many years later a traveler aboard the ship recalled this symbolic combination as a "metaphysical absurdity". Absurd or not, this is but one vignette from a little-known chapter of history: The wide ranging collaboration between Jews and Hitler's Third Reich. In early January 1941 a small but important Jewish organization submitted a formal proposal to German diplomats in Beirut for a military-political alliance with wartime Germany. The offer was made by the radical underground "Fighters for the Freedom of Israel", better known as the Lehi or Stern Gang. Its leader, Avraham Stern, had recently broken with the radical nationalist "National Military Organization" (Irgun Zvai Leumi - Etzel) over the group's attitude toward Britain, which had effectively banned further Jewish settlement of Palestine. Stern regarded Britain as the main enemy of Zionism. This remarkable proposal "for the solution of the Jewish question in Europe and the active participation on the NMO [Lehi] in the war on the side of Germany" is worth quoting at some length: "The NMO which is very familiar with the goodwill of the German Reich government and its officials towards Zionist activities within Germany and the Zionist emigration program takes the view that: Common interests can exist between a European New Order based on the German concept and the true national aspirations of the Jewish people as embodied by the NMO. Cooperation is possible between the New Germany and a renewed, folkish-national Jewry. The establishment of the Jewish state on a national and totalitarian basis, and bound by treaty, with the German Reich, would be in the interest of maintaining and strengthening the future German position of power in the Near East. "On the basis of these considerations, and upon the condition that the German Reich government recognize the national aspirations of the Israel Freedom Movement mentioned above, the NMO in Palestine offers to actively take part in the war on the side of Germany. "This offer by the NMO could include military, political and informational activity within Palestine and, after certain organizational measures, outside as well. Along with this the "Jewish" men of Europe would be militarily trained and organized in military units under the leadership and command of the NMO. They would take part in combat operations for the purpose of conquering Palestine, should such a front be formed. "The indirect participation of the Israel Freedom Movement in the New Order of Europe, already in the preparatory stage, combined with a positive-radical solution of the European-Jewish problem on the basis of the national aspirations of the Jewish people mentioned above, would greatly strengthen the moral foundation of the New Order in the eyes of all humanity. "The cooperation of the Israel Freedom Movement would also be consistent with a recent speech by the German Reich Chancellor, in which Hitler stressed that he would utilize any combination and coalition in order to isolate and defeat England". (Original document in German Auswertiges Amt Archiv, Bestand 47-59, E224152 and E234155-58. Complete original text published in: David Yisraeli, The Palestinian Problem in German Politics 1889-1945 (Israel: 1947) pp. 315-317). On the basis of their similar ideologies about ethnicity and nationhood, National Socialists and Jews worked together for what each group believed was in its own national interests. This is just one example of the Zionist movements' collaboration with Hitler for the purpose of possibly receiving jurisdiction over a minute piece of earth, Palestine. Source for paragraphs marked "[Source]": The Wall Street Journal December 2, 1976
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| | Monday, February 12, 2001 - 12:17 pm Non-Jews as seen in the Jewish Talmud The Talmud is a sacred book of religious laws and regulations governing the life of Jews worldwide. The following excerpts shed some light on why the Jews, who are the product of such teachings, find it so hard to assimilate in their host societies: "The Jews are called human beings, but the non-Jews are not humans. THEY ARE BEASTS." TALMUD: Baba Mezia, 114b (page referrals) "The Akum (non-Jew) is like a dog. Yes, the scripture says to honor the dog more than the non-Jew." TALMUD:Ereget Raschi Erod, 22 30 "Even though God created the non-Jew they are still ANIMALS in human form. It is not becoming of a Jew to be served by an animal. Therefore he will be served by animals in human form." TALMUD: Midrasch Talpioth, p 225, Warsaw 1855 "A pregnant non-jew is no better than a pregnant ANIMAL." TALMUD: Coschen Hamischpat 405 "Although the non-Jew has the same body structure as the Jew, they compare with the Jew as a monkey to a human." TALMUD: Schene luchoth haberuth, p 250b "The souls of non-Jews come from impure spirits and are called PIGS." TALMUD: Jalkut Rubeni gadol 12b "If you eat with a non-Jew it is the same as eating with a dog." TALMUD: Tosapoth, Jebamoth 94b "If a Jew has a non-Jewish servant or maid who dies, one should not express sympathy to the Jew. You should tell the Jew: "God will replace 'your loss', just as if one of his animals had died."" TALMUD: Jore Dea 377 "Sexual intercourse between Gentiles is like intercourse between animals." TALMUD: Sanhedrin 74b "IT IS PERMITTED TO TAKE THE BODY AND LIFE OF A GENTILE." TALMUD: Sepher Ikkarim III c 25 "It is the law to kill anyone who denies the Torah. The Christians belong to the denying ones of the Torah." TALMUD: Coschen Hamischpat, Hagah 425 "A heretic Gentile you may kill outright with your own hands." TALMUD: Abodah Zara, 4b "Every Jew who spills the blood of the godless (non-Jews), is doing the same as making a sacrifice to God." TALMUD: Bammidber raba c 21 & jalkut 772 Besides the Talmud being a book promoting hate towards non-Jews, it also promotes violence and self torment on the Jews as well; Erubin 21b. Whosoever disobeys the rabbis deserves death and will be punished by being boiled in hot excrement in hell. Moed Kattan 17a . If a Jew is tempted to do evil he should go to a city where he is not known and do the evil there. Insults Against Mary the Jew, Sanhedrin 106a . Says Jesus' mother was a whore: "She who was the descendant of princes and governors played the harlot with carpenters." Also in footnote #2 to Shabbath 104b it is stated that in the "uncensored" text of the Talmud it is written that Jesus mother, "Mary the hairdresser," had sex with many men. Gittin 69a . To heal his flesh a Jew should take dust that lies within the shadow of an outdoor toilet, mix it with honey and eat it. Gittin 70a . The Rabbis taught: "On coming from a privy (outdoor toilet) a man should not have sexual intercourse till he has waited long enough to walk half a mile, because the demon of the privy is with him for that time; if he does, his children will be epileptic." To heal the disease of pleurisy ("catarrh" a Jew should >take the excrement of a white dog and knead it with balsam, but if he can possibly avoid it he should not eat the dog's excrement as it loosens the limbs. Pesahim 111a. It is forbidden for dogs, women or palm trees to pass between two men, nor may others walk between dogs, women or palm trees. Special dangers are involved if the women are menstruating or sitting at a crossroads. Menahoth 43b-44a . A Jewish man is obligated to say the following prayer every day: Thank you God for not making me a Gentile, a woman or a slave. Shabbath 86a-86b.
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| | Monday, February 12, 2001 - 12:24 pm By Adam Hanieh The official ideology of Israel, Zionism, has always portrayed itself as a liberation movement for all Jews. But although Zionism claims to offer a home for all Jews, that home has never been offered equally. The question of Arab Jews strikes at the heart of the Zionist contradiction -- an attempt to build an anti- Arab, exclusively Jewish state on Arab lands. From the early days of the Zionist project, large numbers of Jews from neighbouring Arab countries were brought to Palestine. Ostensibly they were “returning home”, but in reality they came as cheap labour for their European counterparts (Ashkenazi Jews). These Arab Jews were given the name Mizrahim (the eastern ones). Official Israeli history presents the emigration of Mizrahi as a result of anti-Semitism within the countries where they lived or a religious devotion to the land of Palestine. This account forgets the economic interests of the Ashkenazi Zionists and the long and largely untroubled relationship between Mizrahi Jews and the other Arabs with whom they lived. Mizrahim had lived in North Africa and the Middle East for millennia, and the vast majority were opposed to creating a Jewish state in Palestine. The Iraqi Jewish leadership, for example, cooperated with the Iraqi government to stop Zionist activity in Iraq; the chief rabbi published an open letter denouncing Zionism. In 1920, Palestinian Jews signed anti-Zionist petitions denouncing Ashkenazi rule. It is now well documented that Zionist underground cells planted bombs in Jewish centres to create hysteria amongst Iraqi Jews, hoping to encourage a mass exodus to Israel. On January 14, 1951, a bomb was thrown into an Iraqi synagogue, killing four people. Of course these acts of terror by the Zionist movement did not happen in isolation from the corrupt Arab governments of the time, most of which were supported by the British, who had overtly backed the Zionist movement with the Balfour declaration of 1917. Exploitation The Mizrahim who arrived in Israel landed in corrugated iron transit camps where Israeli officials attempted to strip them of their “Arabness” by getting rid of their “unpronounceable” Arab names and replacing them with good “Jewish” names. Most ended up in agricultural work, 10-12 hours a day in conditions of disease and squalor. Their high death rate was explained by one Zionist official as a “common and natural thing”. One particularly damning example of the European approach to Mizrahim was the infamous “kidnapped children of Yemen” affair. Doctors, social workers and nurses worked together to kidnap 600 Yemeni-Jewish babies, telling their parents they had died and giving them to childless Ashkenazi couples. A massive protest rally was held in 1986 to demand the truth, but it was ignored by the Israeli media. A few months later, Israeli television produced a documentary which blamed a bureaucratic system for spreading rumours and perpetuated the myth of Mizrahim as careless parents. Today Mizrahim constitute around 50% of the Israeli population. Palestinian Arabs make up another 20%, so the total non-European population is about 70%. This rises to 90% with the inclusion of Palestinians from the occupied territories, making clear the colonial nature of Israel. Mizrahim and Palestinian Arabs make up the vast majority of the Israeli working class, concentrated in lower paid sectors and largely ignored by the official trade union movement, the Histadrut. Early protests Such experiences have naturally led to protest. In 1959 a widespread rebellion began in a neighbourhood of Haifa called Wadi-Salib. It was crushed by the Israeli military. A significant stage of the Mizrahi movement arose in the '70s with the Black Panther movement. The Panthers took a revolutionary outlook from the black struggle in the US and Marxist movements in Latin America. They called for the destruction of the regime and a state that did not discriminate on the basis of religion, origin or nationality. In May 1971 a demonstration of tens of thousands was organised by the Panthers against police repression. Some 170 activists were arrested and 35 were hospitalised through clashes with the police. The Panthers were the first Mizrahim to make links with the Palestinian movement, even conducting talks with the then outlawed PLO. Another Mizrahi movement known as the Tents movement developed. These activists protested against the squalid housing conditions of Mizrahim by squatting in vacant apartments in wealthy Ashkenazi suburbs and erecting large tent camps. They drew links between the billions spent in the occupied territories to build settlements and the underprivileged neighbourhoods in which Mizrahim were forced to live. The Zionist left in Israel, which consists mostly of western educated Ashkenazi, likes to portray Mizrahim as right wing, uncritical and easily swayed by populist demagogues. The leaders of Peace Now, whose membership is almost exclusively Ashkenazi, scapegoat Mizrahim for “supporting the occupation”, “turning Israel into an anti-democratic state” and being “obstacles to peace”. These attitudes obscure important points. Firstly, the policies of occupation and war have been designed and implemented by Ashkenazi, who have until recently dominated Israeli politics. Secondly, the leaders of all the right-wing parties are Ashkenazim. It is true that a relatively large proportion of Mizrahim vote for Likud, but this has less to do with Likud's policies towards Palestinians and more to do with the social devastation caused by years of rule by the Labour Party, the traditional party of Ashkenazi Zionism. Thirdly, significant acts of solidarity with Palestinians initiated by Mizrahi have been erased from the history books. Mizrahi and Likud In the 1981 elections, Likud came to victory because of its image as the party of Mizrahim which would end Labour Party rule. The leader of Likud, ex-paramilitary thug and Ashkenazi Zionist Menachem Begin, cultivated this image through cooption of many of the leaders of the Black Panthers and Tents movement. Begin's second in command was David Levi, a Mizrahi who knew how to use the Panthers' rhetoric, but emptied of content. Levi ever since has used Mizrahi protests while preventing them from going too far. During the Likud period in power, 1977-92, the social gap between Ashkenazi and Mizrahi did not narrow. Today David Levi continues as leader of his own party, Gesher, in the coalition government of Benyamin Netanyahu. During the mid-'80s another reflection of Mizrahi discontent arose with the creation of the Shas party. Shas arose as a rebellion by ultra-orthodox Mizrahim who were studying in the Ashkenazi rabbinical schools. Ultra-orthodox society is openly racist against Mizrahim, and Shas wanted to change this through establishing its own party and education system. Shas now wields important political power and currently has 10 seats in parliament. It represents a false attempt to solve Mizrahi oppression by focusing solely on religion. However, it does reflect Mizrahi discontent with both Labour and Likud politics; one estimate puts four out of 10 Shas seats as due to the support of non-orthodox Mizrahi. A new generation Recently some developments in Mizrahi politics identify the root cause of Mizrahi oppression as the Zionist state and stress the need to build links with Palestinians. One section of this movement is the Democratic Rainbow Movement, which is beginning a struggle over public lands. Some 93% of Israeli territory is classified as state land, most of which was stolen from Palestinians who were expelled in 1948. Since the early '90s, Labour and Likud have been attempting to privatise this land and public housing. Most Mizrahi, who tend to live in the lowest standard public housing, will have no chance of owning their own apartments. However, the Kibbutz and Moshav communities (dominated by Ashkenazi) are being provided with free apartments under the legislation. In the past, Mizrahim were often forced to live in development towns and settlements near the Israeli border or often within the occupied territories. As Israeli control has expanded, these areas have become prime real estate, leading to the eviction of Mizrahi and an influx of Ashkenazi. This is particularly true of Jerusalem, where Israeli yuppies are now moving into settlements once populated by Mizrahi. The Mizrahi movement inevitably comes up against the question of Palestinian rights. Rather than seeing their struggle as one for a “bigger slice of the Zionist pie” many Mizrahi believe the struggle must be a joint one. Another Mizrahi movement is HILA, the Public Committee for Education in the Underprivileged Neighbourhoods. HILA works with activist parents in an attempt to reveal the distortions about Mizrahi history taught in Israeli schools. Other groups have been established on universities and high schools that bring together Palestinian and Mizrahi youth. One of these groups, Tzah, organised a protest in April against a racist textbook used in the Hebrew University. A founder of Tzah and a current leader of Hila, Shiko Behar, has written extensively on the real Mizrahi history, including opposition to Zionism and in support of Palestinian rights. These activists also reject the attempt by Likud and Shas to speak for the Mizrahim. As one Mizrahi activist told Green Left, “We need to liberate Mizrahi and Arab-Jewish identity from the Zionist framework -- and that means the framework of Likud and Shas as well”.
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| | Thursday, February 15, 2001 - 12:56 am OK, let's take a look at what we have here in the aggragate. First of all we have the old failed assumption which we chide others of but then practice ourselves. Looking at things from our cultural perspective and then assuming others do that to. All these meaningless quotes about Jewish "books" etc. How many Jews or Israelites do you think agree with the thought that it's perfectly OK to kill a non-Jew??? If that were the case then no Jew who ever killed a Palestinian or any other nonJew would be punished under Israeli law right?? But in fact they are. I'll admit the Israeli government has executed plenty of violence and killing against Palestinians, but this is in the context of violent conflict, not individual aggrandizement. Let's be intelletucally honest here. Now, as for the other anti-Jewish quotes (I'm not sure if this was meant to reinforce the notion that Jews are somehow sub-human or what). Let's pretend I substitute the word Muslim for Jew. Or Somali for Jew. I then list these anti-social, swine like attributes to all Somalis. Let's then assume that instead of just annexing the Ogaden the Ethiopians murdered every single Somali in the Ogaden and tried to do the same in Somalia proper. Let's say of a general population of 13 million Somalis, one half were killed. And everywehre in the world there were plenty of people saying the Somalis deserved it. Wouldn't you be a little paranoid about your security? Look at the above quotes and the attempt to demonize Jews. This whole attitude towards Jews (you see it in the Qur'an too) is part of the cause for todays conflict. I'm not defending Jewish action here. But you guys are patently ignoring the cause. You feel happy to label the Jews as inherently evil and leave it at that. Well, for your Palestinian "Muslim brothers" that doesn't bode well, because if you are correct than the Jews are going to kill all of them and any other Muslims who get in the way. Why??? Because the Arab world is too disorgnaized, ill-equipped and ill-trained to fight a modern war. You have lots of cannon fodder but nothing else. The Israelis ca really jack up the heat if they want to and make life very unpleasant or even non-existant for the Palestinians. Asad says often it is better to be dead than oppressed. Well, the Palestinians might get to test your theory here if they keep pushing the envelope.
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| | Thursday, February 15, 2001 - 04:58 am Mad mac the Arabs are disorganized and in disarrayed, but your forgetting one aspect of the equation. What will bring down the Zionist and their western puppets is not the Arab world or the Baath party who stand on the foundation of Arabism. But their demise and downfall will come not from the Arabs alone but from the Islamic world. The Arabs are a minority in the Islamic world, combine all of them and they can't even come quarter of Indonesia. We might be long gone when the rule of Sharia will re-emerge as the by gone eras tested. One other point is the day the Arabs go back to the Holy scripture and build their laws and conduct in the teachings of the Holy Quran, they will conquer not only the next door neighbours in the dark but as has been done in by gone era, conquer the whole world. They will achieve the un-achievable and rule the world as the man on the horse back did few centuries ago. If your Historical oriented dish back to just the beginning of last century, if that ain't enough search the History books and try to discover why there is a period of 500 to 800 years that the West call the dark ages. How can they be in dark when that period is way after the birth of Jesus. Well to make ur work easier and save you from a trip to the History bookshop, they call that period the 'dark ages' cause The light of ISLAM ruled SUPREME. A man in a horse back brought their fornicating empire to it's knees and thought them the trade they use today, NASA. If you want further testimony of the achievement of that man from the desert, visit the NASA space centre in Houston, and find where the origin of the names of the Galaxy and orbit came from. Most of the names are Arabic, funny they say they were in the dark when they were furiously taken notes from their rulers. So the equation is simple, so long the Arabs together with the Islamic world choose to ignore the Quran, they will be servants and slaves to their foes, but the day they shun this material world and go back to their humble beginnings, beginnings that took them from darkness to the conquest of the world, they will conquer and save this world from the darkness this world dwells in today. A darkness that leads 24/7 days news channels to discuss and digest the semen of their so called leader It's true today the Arabs together with the Majority of the Muslim world are prisoners of their worldly desires and in turn they fall victims to the Satanic schemes of spreading 'fusuq', filthy and fatuous laws. All I can assure you is the West is riding on a hearse and the destination is approaching rather quickly. It ain't over till it's over.
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| | Thursday, February 15, 2001 - 07:22 am MM, if it is an unattainable task, why not give it up? You are not dilusioned, are you? Babilon, well said bro. Galool, welcome back abtee 
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| | Thursday, February 15, 2001 - 08:37 am "OK, let's take a look at what we have here in the aggragate." including you and the things you said, right? ;-) "First of all we have the old failed assumption which we chide others of but then practice ourselves. Looking at things from our cultural perspective and then assuming others do that to." mad mac, what you called *old* is with us now and it is not old. it does not *fail*. in fact, it is what the isaeli terrorists and those who support them employ are employing it too----in order to legalize their occupations, killing and forcing innocent people out of their homes. they employ the *old* scriptures and say they are getting and returning to the *promise land*. how wicked. ! "All these meaningless quotes about Jewish "books" etc." but the truth can not be meaningless. again, your analysis is immoral (dishonest). you refused to see the truth. the fact is that the truth is that the jews are a race and those jews in palestine whether they are orthodox religious, atheists, capitalists or communists are wicked people. you can't deny this. "How many Jews or Israelites do you think agree with the thought that it's perfectly OK to kill a non-Jew???" all the israeli people who live in stolen land in that area and those who support them are sponsering terrorist state. they are promoting and saying it is okay to kill a palestinian who demands his or her rights. "If that were the case then no Jew who ever killed a Palestinian or any other nonJew would be punished under Israeli law right?? But in fact they are." md mac, i told you that your immoral (dishonest) analysis is making you blind and does not let you see the truth. the fact is that under isaeli law, palestinian people are killed and under isaeli law, many palestinian people are kicked their homes in order some so called jew settlers can come and live there. ! "I'll admit the Israeli government has executed plenty of violence and killing against Palestinians" under isaeli law, right? "but this is in the context of violent conflict, not individual aggrandizement. Let's be intelletucally honest here." that is very funny for you to say "let's be intellectually honest here" did you say "Morals have no place in the debate (here)" and did i say to you "without morals, debates (discussions) would be fruitless." i told you that your analysis is flawed because it is immoral (dishonest). ;-) did you say that right or wrong have no impact on outcomes? ;-) "Now, as for the other anti-Jewish quotes (I'm not sure if this was meant to reinforce the notion that Jews are somehow sub-human or what)." i think the quotes i read tell what the jews books say "The Jews are called human beings, but the non-Jews are not humans. THEY ARE BEASTS." TALMUD: Baba Mezia, 114b (page referrals)" "Let's pretend I substitute the word Muslim for Jew. Or Somali for Jew." ok "I then list these anti-social, swine like attributes to all Somalis." i told you that i don't discriminate. if a somali is anti-social and lives on homes he or she robbed from people (be they somali or non-somali people) and whenever these people demand their rights or they want to return their homes, this somali person blames them or kills them, then that is more than being swine or anti-socail; it is wicked. ;-) "Let's then assume that instead of just annexing the Ogaden the Ethiopians murdered every single Somali in the Ogaden and tried to do the same in Somalia proper." that is wicked too for the ethiopians who do that ;-) "Let's say of a general population of 13 million Somalis, one half were killed. And everywehre in the world there were plenty of people saying the Somalis deserved it." just like the jewish people saying to themselves they deserve what hitler did to them, right? ;-) "Wouldn't you be a little paranoid about your security?" no, if i rob a land from you and you demand your home back, there is no reason for me to be "paroniod about my secrutiy" if i return your home. it is a cheap excuse to say if i return your home, you might kill me in revenge, so i go ahead and kill more people in order to stay in your home. what a wicked. ! "Look at the above quotes and the attempt to demonize Jews." maybe you and i are reading different quotes. the quotes i'm reading are what they jews people themselves say and the fact about them. in fact, the jewish people are onces demonizing non-jews people. ;-) "This whole attitude towards Jews (you see it in the Qur'an too) is part of the cause for todays conflict." hey, don't blame the Quran; their own books say the same things and more about them. ;-) "I'm not defending Jewish action here." you can't defend the jewish, but you are trying and doing a bad job. ;-) "But you guys are patently ignoring the cause." lol----the cause. ;-) "You feel happy to label the Jews as inherently evil and leave it at that." the fact is that if i do evil, i should be called an evil person. these evil and wicked israelis who kill palestinian people and live in the land they robbed from innocent people and them blame them are wicked and evil people and those who support them. "Well, for your Palestinian "Muslim brothers" that doesn't bode well, becaus if you are correct than the Jews are going to kill all of them and any other Muslims who get in the way. Why???" yes, but don't deny the jews "non-muslim brothers" being wicked and evil people. ;-) "Because the Arab world is too disorgnaized, ill-equipped and ill-trained to fight a modern war. i agree. "You have lots of cannon fodder but nothing else." and you have nothing but wicked and evil intentions, right? ;-) "The Israelis ca really jack up the heat if they want to and make life very unpleasant or even non-existant for the Palestinians." as if they are not already doing for the palestinian people. ;-) "Asad says often it is better to be dead than oppressed." that is right. i rather be killed than be oppressed. "Well, the Palestinians might get to test your theory here if they keep pushing the envelope." they are already getting and have even before they pushed the envelope. and it is not their fault. it is the fault of wicked people. their own people and many other books know what kind of people are these people. ;-) "with their centuries old record of crime and corruption, depravity and rebellion are debarred from Allah's All-embracing grace and mercy all together---yes there were some of them who did always the right things (those who followed the prophets of Allah). salvation however is not confined to any particular race or nationality as the curse is not confined to any particular race or nationality. their own books tell you about what kind of people they are: 'they were disobedient and rebelled against thee, and cast the law behind their backs, and slew they prophets (Ne 9:26)'...ye are the childern of them which killed the prophets....ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell? ;-). their own books say that moses said this: "i have seen this people (the children of israel), and behold, it is a stiffnecked people"Ex 32:9). 'they mocked the messangers of God, and despised his words, and misused his prophets, until the wrath of the Lord arose against his people, till there was no remedy (2 Ch. 36:16) "....i know that after my death ye will utterly corrupt yourselves, and turn aside from the way which i have commanded you; and evil will befall you in the latter days; because ye will do evil in the sight of the Lord, to provoke him to angry through the work of your hands'(31:27-29)."
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| | Thursday, February 15, 2001 - 08:03 pm too much to read!
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| | Friday, February 16, 2001 - 01:37 pm ANON Thank you. I never said sympathizing with Palestinian cause equates with fighting for them. Please check my comments again and let me know where I said or suggested such a preposterous thing. The issue under discussion at the time was the boycotting of "Jewish" businesses, and if I remember rightly, I said the same things I said in the above posting. Now let us widen this discussion. I wonder how you would react if the low-level but constant harassment(and occassional massacres) of Indonesia's Christian and Hindu communities suddenly escalated into an outright war of oppression like that being conducted against your beloved "fellow" Arabs. Would you unequivocally condemn the Muslim perpetrators with the same conviction you condemn the Jewish State? or would you keep absolutely quite and consider it as an Allah-sanctioned cleansing of world? Be candid ANON! And can someone please issue a serious Fatwa against this moron who have been jamming the whole forums with meaningless copies of gibberish musings from the barrel-scrapings of the local asylum's deluded minds? TLG Nice to hear from you, my little beardess! Where is Common? Has he been kidnapped by a rival Circle?
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| | Friday, February 16, 2001 - 07:39 pm "ANON Thank you." you're welcome. "I never said sympathizing with Palestinian cause equates with fighting for them. yes, you did. "Please check my comments again and let me know where I said or suggested such a preposterous thing." there is a reason i copied the link where you said that preposterous thing for evidence. http://somalinet.com/forums_archives/4669/14428.html "The issue under discussion at the time was the boycotting of "Jewish" businesses, and if I remember rightly, I said the same things I said in the above posting." here is the issue and the exchange you and i had about it: you said: "Surely there is a difference between respecting achievement and hard-work and actively "fighting" for a side for the flimsiest of reasons?" then, i responded: "i never heard somalis who are actively "fighting" in Palestine. i didn't know feeling sympathy towards the palestinians mean "fighting" for them! if feeling sympathy toward palestinians means fighting for them, then respecting the jews means fighting for the jews, right? ;-)" then you came back and said: "ANON Fighting takes many shapes. Admiring and respecting people for their achievement isn't one of them. Boycotting businesses of the "enemy" IS a form of fighting. That is all." then i said: "galool, you are wrong, again. see, *respecting* and *admiring* a person or people can be a form of *fighting* (hurting people). here is how: if i *admire* and *respect* the deeds of hitler (his achievements in putting together forces), the jews will accuse me of not only sucking-up to hilter, but the jews will *fight* me in retaliation and try to stop me (boycot me). ;-) so if *boycotting* the enemy is a form of *fighting*, then *admiring* the enemy is a form of *fighting*, got it? ;-)" then you said: "There are many people who openly admire hitler but they can't help him now can they? Admiration does not add or take away anything from a friend or a foe. Boycotting does as it is an often effective form of economic warfare. Millions of Pakistans and Indonesians admire Arafat but that does not do him or his cause any good. If on the other hand they were to boycott all "Jewish" goods and services, then that will be useful to the "friend" and harmful to the "foe"." then i said: "if that is the case, then why the jews fear the thought of hitler being admired by anyone if admiration does not add (hurt) or take away anything----(does not frighten the jews)? ;-) the fact is that this admiration terrifies (hurts) the jews. ;-) anyone who says some nice things about hilter, he will for sure vilified by the jews. among other things, he will be labeled as anti-semite carrying lethal or dangerous weapon(worst than any boycot); he will be hunted like a deer and ostracized (hated)--------and will be boycotted for the rest of his life. ;-)" you said this while boasting yourself "I know magnanimity in defeat is not your strong point, but I think you will gain a bit more respect from the beardos and others here if you concede to this straightforward logic." then i said to you: "i think that is your wishful thinking and this wishful thinking is not going to help your case. all your servile attentions giving by yourself(claiming to be a winner) is the unceasing adulation that spring from your own selfish desire to get ahead, not out of any sincere, though. for sure, you are a self-indulger and you promiscuously attempt to make yourself a winner, but reality is that you are the personification of the traditional ward-heeler--a hypocrite. ;-) i mean, you accuse people of sucking-up to the palestinians, but when it is showed that you are also doing the same things (for the jews) you accuse of others, you deny it. are you not a sycophant (a bootlicker), galool? ;-)" "Now let us widen this discussion." okay. "I wonder how you would react if the low-level but constant harassment(and occassional massacres) of Indonesia's Christian and Hindu communities suddenly escalated" first, if you had been following with the news reports from indonesia about the clashes between christians and muslims, you would have known that muslims were not the only ones doing massacres; christians also did plenty of that. all you have have to do is search reporst from Associated Press in 1999. "into an outright war of oppression like that being conducted against your beloved "fellow" Arabs." lol-----your beloved fellow arabs. ;-) if the arabs (the palestinians) were my beloved, is the israelis (the jews) your beloved, galool? ;-) "Would you unequivocally condemn the Muslim perpetrators with the same conviction you condemn the Jewish State? or would you keep absolutely quite and consider it as an Allah-sanctioned cleansing of world? Be candid ANON!" galool, looks like you have not been reading what i have been saying. i said i don't discriminate. i even called myself a wicked if i terrorized people. i even said "any somali who violates and terrorizes people is a wicked, especially if he or she blames their victims." in my last post on this thread, i said "the fact is that if i do evil, i should be called an evil person." i said "i told you that i don't discriminate. if a somali is anti-social and lives on homes he or she robbed from people (be they somali or non-somali people) and whenever these people demand their rights or they want to return their homes, this somali person blames them or kills them, then that is more than being swine or anti-socail; it is wicked. ;-)" "And can someone please issue a serious Fatwa against this moron who have been jamming the whole forums with meaningless copies of gibberish musings from the barrel-scrapings of the local asylum's deluded minds" galool, i'm suprised that you are now acting like a dictator.! anyone can post whatever they want here. it is free place. telling a person what he or she can or can't post on her is cencorship. ;-)
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| | Saturday, February 17, 2001 - 05:20 am Babillon Yours is wishful thinking dude. Let's start with premise one - the numbers game. There are almost as many Hindu Indians as there are Muslims world-wide (about one billion). Of course numbers alone don't give the full picture. Even were the Indonesians so inclined, what are they going to do, get in boats as sail to the Middle East? Even if they did that, what would that bring to the situation but more cannon fodder? The "light of Islam" is not going to rule the world, so get it out of your head. The West controls vast financial and military resources that the global Muslim community can't even imagine. The Palestinians are basicaly on their own on this one, so they had better develop a strategy that works with things the way they are, not this fantasy world about some magical Islamic uprising which is not going to happen. Asad You are absolutely right in that the Israeli government has been prone to do the same ••••. They demonize the Palestinians to make killing them more politically palatable. I'm not defending that here. This happens more and more when Likud governs than when labor governs. But Labor is not innocent either. That's the beauty of this situation, there are no innocents. It's just a question of who the biggest scum bags are. As you well know, I think all of the political leadership in the middle east are varying degrees of swine. But degrees do count in practical terms. The Jews are not a race, they are a religion. You can argue they are an ethnic group. But physiologically speaking, they are not a race. Then we have to define Palestine. Palestine was never really an independent country, there was a British protectorate which included much of what is now Israel, the West Bank and Gaza (and other areas too). But there was never a single political entity in what makes up these various areas. I would certainly argue with any notion that all people who live in Israel today are wicked people. This is plain ignorant. What about the Children??? What about the teenagers?? What about the young adults. At what point do you become a "Wicked Person". Were all the Germans wicked in WW II. As the judge at Nuremburg said "I kow of no way to judge a nation." You could learn something from him. As for your rationale about all who sponsor Israel are supporting terrorism, do you pay taxes in America??? Then that would include you. And all Somalis who paid taxes tot he Siad Barre government (admitedly tax evasion there was a more popular sport than in the states, but some people did pay taxes), they're all terrorist too. As for intellectual honesty, my analysis is correct because it is not blinded by moral values. It is an analysis of facts, not right or wrong. You are like the baseball fan who predicts his team will win because he wants it too. He loves his team so much that he predicts victory, and rationalizes why, even though all the facts point to a defeat. That's why my analysis was correct in the Fall and is correct now. I told you before, I am not arguing who is right and who is wrong, I am saying that the Palestinians methods right now are flawed and if they persist with their current strategy they will not succeed in establishing a viable state with the boundaries they desire nor will displaced Palestinians get any compensation. That's the bottom line. Do the Palestinians want the best possible results? If they do, they need to switch strategies. If all they care about is right or wrong and making a point, then they can self-immolate, like they are right now. That's what it comes down to. Remember my next prediciton because I sure am going to remind you of it when in about 6 months when it comes to fruition. TLG Why do I continue? I guess I can't resist the odds.
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| | Saturday, February 17, 2001 - 09:21 am "Asad You are absolutely right in that the Israeli government has been prone to do the same ••••. They demonize the Palestinians to make killing them more politically palatable." that is right. some of them also demonize the palestinian to make killing them and kicking them out of their homes religiouslly acceptable also. http://home.swipnet.se/~w-20479/Arabs.htm "I'm not defending that here." but you are blaming the victims also. "This happens more and more when Likud governs than when labor governs. But Labor is not innocent either." i told you that it does not matter. every israeli who lives in and enjoys palestinian homes and those who support them are the same to me. "That's the beauty of this situation, there are no innocents." they are all responsible for the killing of palestinian people. "It's just a question of who the biggest scum bags are." the villains are the biggest scums----the israeli terrorists and those who support them. ;-) "As you well know, I think all of the political leadership in the middle east are varying degrees of swine. But degrees do count in practical terms." i told you that terrorsim begets terrorism. the question is who started first? "The Jews are not a race, they are a religion. You can argue they are an ethnic group. But physiologically speaking, they are not a race. Then we have to define Palestine. Palestine was never really an independent country, there was a British protectorate which included much of what is now Israel, the West Bank and Gaza (and other areas too). But there was never a single political entity in what makes up these various areas. I would certainly argue with any notion that all people who live in Israel today are wicked people. This is plain ignorant. What about the Children??? What about the teenagers?? What about the young adults. At what point do you become a "Wicked Person". Were all the Germans wicked in WW II. As the judge at Nuremburg said "I kow of no way to judge a nation." You could learn something from him. As for your rationale about all who sponsor Israel are supporting terrorism, do you pay taxes in America??? Then that would include you. And all Somalis who paid taxes tot he Siad Barre government (admitedly tax evasion there was a more popular sport than in the states, but some people did pay taxes), they're all terrorist too." the fact is that the *jews* are a race whether they are orthodox religious, atheists, capitalists or communists it does not matter. ;-) you see, while the "Reform" and "Conservative" jews movements comprise the vast majority of religious-affiliated American Jews, they are a minor presence in Israel, whose population is divided, about 4 to 1, between secular and orthodox Jews. as for the State of Israel, some Orthodox Jews do not see it as the "Return of the Jews" promised in the prophetic books of the Bible, while most Jews understand the presence of a Jewish state as a major turn in the history of the Jewish people... and surrounded as it is by hostile states, Israel is dependent on world Jewry for continued help. the two main groups of Jews in Israel: "Sephardim" and "Ashkenazim": The "Sephardim" are now the dominant religious and perhaps political group of Israel, with 60% of the Jews. The "Ashkenazim", more liberal, are more receptive to concessions to palestine. "zionism" is the movement to secure a homeland in palestine for the Jews and to support the new State of Israel in its struggles amidst the Arab Islamic world. theodore Herzl is called the "Father of Zionism" since he published "The Jewish State" in 1896. Through his efforts the first World Zionist Congress meet in Basel, Switzerland, in 1897. the efforts culminated in 1948 when David Ben-Gurion proclaimed the "State of Israel". Within minutes the United States recognized the new state, and within a short time Israel was fighting a number of Arab nations. in the 6 days war of 1967, the Jews occupied all Jerusalem, the Gaza Strip, and the West Bank. War broke again in 156, 1967 and 1973. In 1978 Egypt and Israel signed the Camp David Accord. the first group of jews came to New York in 1654. At the time of the American Revolution there were less than 1,000 Jews and no rabbis. In the 19th century came the Ashkenazi from Germany, who were mostly shopkeepers and peddlers, and a few Sephardic, of Hispanic origin, who were mostly merchants and traders. From 1880 to 1920 two million Jews came to the USA mostly from Poland and Russia, most of them Orthodox. The "Pittsburgh Platform" of 1885 marked Reform Judaism's brake from the past as genuine; even "God" was called the "God idea". in 1997, there are 6.9 million Jews in the U.S., with 3 major branches: (The "American Jewish Yearbook" 1990):- Orthodox: 1 million, 1,200 congregations.- Reformed: 1.3 million, 848 congregations.- Conservative: 2 million, 800 congregations.- Reconstructionist: 50,000. Iin the USA: 2% of the population; In New York City area: 13% of the population. orthodox is the oldest form of Judaism today. They follow the Law of Torah, and the 613 commandments of the Halakah are observed. They pray 3 times a day, eat only kosher food, observe the Sabbath, refrain from sexual intercourse for 2 weeks each month, avoid interreligious marriage, and devote much time to the study of the Scripture. Women are excluded from the rabbinate, from reading the Torah in the Synagogue, and a woman does not count in the required quorum of ten to hold a prayer meeting. the place of a woman is at home. they are expecting the arrival of the Messiah. they came to America in 1625 following the Sephardic rite. In 1831 in Philadelphia, the Ashkenazi rite began. orthodox institutions include YESHIVOS Seminaries of Torah Study; Hebrew Theological College in Chicago; Yeshiva University; and Rabbinical Council of America. reform jews are the liberal branch, adopting Judaism to the new changes in the world. The Synagogues are called Temples, and favor the equality of the sexes. They follow the spirit but not the letter of the Orthodox practices. It began in Germany in the 1800s, and was brought to the USA by the Reform Society of Israelites in Charleston, South Carolina. The Hebrew Union College in Cincinnati, Ohio, was founded by Rabbi Wise in 1875. The National Federation of Temple Brotherhoods; NFT Sisterhoods; NFT Youth; National Association of Temple Educators, are some of the Reform organizations. In Israel it is the Reform group, the Ashkenazi group, that is most willing to make concessions to the demands of the Palestinians. conservative jews seek a middle ground between the two groups. In 1985 the Conservative Rabbinical Association approved women in the clergy. It was brought to America by Solomon Schechter, and it is called the United Synagogue of America. reconstructionist jews are non-Rabbi-led groups, about 80 nationwide, started by Kaplan in New York in the 1900s. They deny original sin, and uphold the basic goodness of humankind. modern "Hasidism" is humanistic Judaism: comprised mainly of agnostic and atheists. Theism is replaced by humanism, and morality lies within each person. In 1969 Wine founded the Society for Humanistic Judaism in New York. anyone of these jews who support the killing of palestinian people are *wicked*. i'm not talking about those who pay tax; i'm not talking about those who actively support politically and religiously and those who live in the area where palestinian people used to live. ;-) "As for intellectual honesty, my analysis is correct because it is not blinded by moral values." it is blinded by immoral values and it can't be correct. how can an immoral can an honest? it is like saying a hypocrite person is honest. ;-) "It is an analysis of facts, not right or wrong." the fact is that wrong doing people should be the only ones who should be blamed for wrong doings. to blame the victims is wrong and if you blame them that does not mean it is fact. ;-) "You are like the baseball fan who predicts his team will win because he wants it too. He loves his team so much that he predicts victory, and rationalizes why, even though all the facts point to a defeat. That's why my analysis was correct in the Fall and is correct now." i didn't predict anything; i tell like it is. i told you what is happening in that area and you are blaming the victims and making cheap excuse for your team. i know your team is winning now because they are terrorists, but they will not enjoy their victory. that is what i'm saying. ;-) "I told you before, I am not arguing who is right and who is wrong" that is your problem. ;-) "I am saying that the Palestinians methods right now are flawed. and if they persist with their current strategy they will not succeed in establishing a viable state with the boundaries they desire nor will displaced Palestinians get any compensation. That's the bottom line." and i'm saying what you are saying is the thing that is flawed. you are finding faulty in innocest people and making excuse for israeli terrroism. your thinking is blemished by this. i'm saying the method you want the palestinian people to take is not going to work. you want them to sign "we shall over come" and do nothing. you want israeli terrorists to live happy life and enjoy living in the homes they robbed. that will not happen. ;-) i am telling you that the palestinian people will not sign "we shall over come". terrorism begets terrorism. that is a fact. ;-) "Do the Palestinians want the best possible results? If they do, they need to switch strategies. If all they care about is right or wrong and making a point, then they can self-immolate, like they are right now. That's what it comes down to. Remember my next prediciton because I sure am going to remind you of it when in about 6 months when it comes to fruition." yes, and the best possible result is the way you want for them-----to sing this song--"we shall over come". if that was going to work apartheid in south africa would end just like that. ;-)
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| | Saturday, February 17, 2001 - 01:28 pm Asad Why do you think that Israel is my team?? Have I ever said that Israel is my team? Have I ever intoned that? You are not paying attention Sahib. What I am saying is that if the Palestinians want the best possible results, they need to switch methodologies. Did I say that the Palestinians should do nothing??? No I didn't say that. Think about this in Marshal Arts terms. What is the best way to win a fight? Not having one. If someone tries to pick a fight with you how do you best neutralize his attack??? Don't be there. Recommend you read a book called Zen in the Marshal Arts (It's philosophy, not religion, so it's not un-Islamic). For the Palestinians to win, they need to avoid the fight. They need to study their enemies weakness. The weakness of the state of Israel is not on the battlefield. Isn't it obvious that the Palestinian cause is just??? Isn't it obvious that the Israelis have committed a grave injustice??? I mean you beat that drum with every post. Do you think Muslims are the only people who understand injustice??? The Palestinians can win the sympathy vote because they are in the right. They can win that vote in Israel and they can win that vote in the US and they can win that vote in the west in general. That's where the Palestinian power lies. Rioting detracts from the message. Bombings detract from the message. It doesn't matter if they are defensible or not. But if the rioter were instead peaceful protestors, and they were being shot at with water cannon and attacked with dogs and brutalized, THAT IS POWERFUL. More powerful than any other weapon the Palestinians can muster. I remember something very clearly my mother told me when I was still fairly young. We were watching a show on Martin Luther King and she said to me that the first time she really realized there was something wrong in the way America treats black people was when she saw them being attacked by police dogs in Alabama during a peaceful protest march. My mom said they weren't doing anything wrong. Completely non-violent. And the white response was totally violent. My father had deep rooted prejudices (I Remember him talking about blacks in very disparaging terms) about blacks born of his culture, but when he saw that on TV those prejudices were uprooted violently. When a Somali friend of mine came to visit in 1996 my mother and father not only treated her graciously but my mother wanted me to marry her (I'm a gaal, it was out of the question - although I did ask. She was a classy woman, but she wouldn't consider it). So we went from blacks being scum to blacks being marriage material. I would submit to you that this attitudinal change would never have happened if the cause for change were violent - even had it been successful. The Palestinians have only one weapon at hand, and it's not the AK-47. It's the media and public sympathy. And the attitude of the public is the most powerful weapon in the world. I can't believe you don't understand that.
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| | Sunday, February 18, 2001 - 02:33 am Asad I think I am missing something here. I mean I still can't see where I said sympathy equates with war. The earlier postings you so helpfully re-pasted here seem to be saying EXACTLY the opposite of your claim. But lets' not dwell on it. You are right, I am for for free speech and thought, but of course you are not. That is why I thought you maybe able to help me out here and accuse this boring fella of some heineous blasphemy or the other, issue a Fatwa and threaten to make him a head-shorter unless he makes his posting a whole body shorter! MM I think you are really overestimating this international sympathy thing. The tibetans had been basking in whole oodles of it since 1958 but the Chinese still rule them. I think your view of how the Palestinians should behave betrays a sub-concious cultural arrogance. You surely would not suggest that the French, Dutch, Russians etc should have behaved in similar fashion when their countries were occupied by the Nazis. The P'tinians are entitled to conduct their struggle as they see fit. They may not have won American hearts with their methods, but I don't think they deserve to be chastized for that! Of course they cannot win an all-out frontal war, and they know that. That is why they are combining popular uprising, terrorist acts, sniping, guerilla attacks and suicide missions with continous unabating political pressure on the Israeli state to negotiate and leave their land, which is internationally accepted to be an unlawfully occupied land. Sorry that P'tinians refused to act like proper, kind and cuddly little ethnics hankering after the patrician, hard-to-get sympathies of the dominant white race!
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| | Sunday, February 18, 2001 - 08:18 am "Asad Why do you think that Israel is my team?? the same reason you think palestinian is my team. ;-) "Have I ever said that Israel is my team? have i ever said that palestinian is my team? ;-) "Have I ever intoned that? yes, you did. you are singing their tone and propogating their propoganda. in fact, you sound like them employing their cheap excuses in order to terrorize the palestinian people. ;-) "You are not paying attention Sahib." i'm. ;-) "What I am saying is that if the Palestinians want the best possible results, they need to switch methodologies." well, that is exactly the same things the israeli terrorists want the palestinians to do. they and you want the palestinian people to sing "we shall over come". to me, this is stupid method. it is proven that it only benifits the villains. i told you oppression is worst than death. "Did I say that the Palestinians should do nothing??? No I didn't say that." no, you didn't say the palestinians should do nothing; you instead want palestinians to sing "we shall over come", right? ;-) "Think about this in Marshal Arts terms. What is the best way to win a fight? Not having one." but what if the fight is already began? would you sing and say "we shall over come" or you will resist the best way you can. anyway, whos started the fight? ;-) "If someone tries to pick a fight with you how do you best neutralize his attack?? Don't be there." well, that is what the israeli terrorists and those who support them want-----the palestinian people to not be in their own land or homes. the israeli terrorists and those who support them want the palestinian people to leave just like that. what a wicked. ! "Recommend you read a book called Zen in the Marshal Arts (It's philosophy, not religion, so it's not un-Islamic)." even if i read that book and a guy like you who mastered the marshall arts comes to my home and kicks me out of it, i would not let him enjoy living my home and i certainly i would sing for him "we shall over come". i'll refuse for him to sleep in my home peacefully. ;-) "For the Palestinians to win, they need to avoid the fight." again, it is not the palestinian people who came to fight; the israeli terrorists and those who support them want to fight, kill, and kick them out. "They need to study their enemies weakness. The weakness of the state of Israel is not on the battlefield. Isn't it obvious that the Palestinian cause is just??? Isn't it obvious that the Israelis have committed a grave injustice??? I mean you beat that drum with every post. " if the south african kids didn't throw stones at the apartheid system and didn't resist or just song "we shall over come", there would still be what you called "battlefied"-----children throwing stone and arm forces with machine guns and tanks. singing does not get liberty. no justice; no peace gets the job done even if you have to die. i wonder who said "give me death or give me liberty"? "Do you think Muslims are the only people who understand injustice???" the isreali terrorists (those who claimed to have fled from hitler------holocaust survivors and their children) don't understand injustice; if they did, they would not have done (and continue to do) what was done to them. ;-) "The Palestinians can win the sympathy vote because they are in the right." i told you that sympathy vote and singing "we shall over come" don't win liberty or freedom. "They can win that vote in Israel and they can win that vote in the US and they can win that vote in the west in general. That's where the Palestinian power lies. Rioting detracts from the message. Bombings detract from the message. It doesn't matter if they are defensible or not. "But if the rioter were instead peaceful protestors, and they were being shot at with water cannon and attacked with dogs and brutalized, THAT IS POWERFUL. More powerful than any other weapon the Palestinians can muster. I remember something very clearly my mother told me when I was still fairly young. We were watching a show on Martin Luther King and she said to me that the first time she really realized there was something wrong in the way America treats black people was when she saw them being attacked by police dogs in Alabama during a peaceful protest march. My mom said they weren't doing anything wrong. Completely non-violent. And the white response was totally violent. My father had deep rooted prejudices (I Remember him talking about blacks in very disparaging terms) about blacks born of his culture, but when he saw that on TV those prejudices were uprooted violently. When a Somali friend of mine came to visit in 1996 my mother and father not only treated her graciously but my mother wanted me to marry her (I'm a gaal, it was out of the question - although I did ask. She was a classy woman, but she wouldn't consider it). So we went from blacks being scum to blacks being marriage material. I would submit to you that this attitudinal change would never have happened if the cause for change were violent - even had it been successful. The Palestinians have only one weapon at hand, and it's not the AK-47. It's the media and public sympathy. And the attitude of the public is the most powerful weapon in the world. I can't believe you don't understand that." that is funny. the US is the one sponsoring the terrorist state in isreal. the fact is that if it were not for US and the West helping the isreali terrorists, there would not be palestinian plight anymore. i don't think you understand this: terrorisms begets terrorism. again, mad mac, the history of black resistances were not only the likes of martin l king, mad mac. turn the other cheek mentality is not what saved the blacks from white racists. if the blacks continue to sing that song, they would be still singing these and be wrost places. there were other movements (other than martin's turn the other cheek of the so called resistance) movements which had useful radical ideologies for the blacks. molcom's militant voice was something whites feared the most. ;-). by any means necessary was a powerful message, a message which whites heard and responded to better than to the message 'we shall over come'. ;-) molcom really was a shocking and he uplifted many sleeping blacks. during the 1960's malcom's stand against white racists gained in popularity in opposition to "elite" civil rights leaders like martin which laid the basis for the black liberation movement that coalesced with the war cry of "black power" in 1966. self-defence preached by molcom was more reliastice than "turn the other cheek" preached by martin. malcom said concerning non-violence adopted by martin these: "it is crimminal to teach a man not to defend himself when he is the constant victim of brutel attacks.----you can’t separate peace from freedom because no one can be at peace unless he has his freedom.----I believe in the brotherhood of man, all men, but I don’t believe in brotherhood with anybody who doesn’t want brotherhood with me. I believe in treating people right, but I’m not going to waste my time trying to treat somebody right who doesn’t know how to return the treatment.---There is nothing in our book, the Qoran, that teaches us to suffer peacefully. Our religion teaches us to be intelligent. be peaceful, be courteous, obey the law, respect everyone; but if someone puts his hand on you, send him to the cemetery. that’s a good religion.---If it is wrong to be violent defending black women and black children and black babies and black men, then it is wrong for America to draft us, and make us violent abroad in defense of her. And if it is right for America to draft us, and teach us how to be violent in defense of her, then it is right for you and me to do whatever is necessary to defend our own people right here in this country.---as I see the law of justice, it says as you sow, so shall you reap. The white man has reveled as the rope snapped black men's necks. He has reveled around the lynching fire. Another thing to think of--in the 20th Century, the Christian Church has given us two heresies: fascism and communism. Where did fascism start? Where's the second-largest Communist party outside of Russia? The answer to both is Italy. Where is the Vatican? But let's not forget the Jew. Anybody that gives even a just criticism of the Jew is instantly labeled anti-Semite. The Jew cries louder than anybody else if anybody criticizes him. You can tell the truth about any minority in America, but make a true observation about the Jew, and if it doesn't pat him on the back, then he uses his grip on the news media to label you anti-Semite. Let me say just a word about the Jew and the black man. The Jew is always anxious to advise the black man. But they never advise him how to solve his problem the way the Jews solved their problem. The Jew never went sitting-in and crawling-in and sliding-in and freedom-riding, like he teaches and helps Negroes to do. The Jews stood up, and stood together, and they used their ultimate power, the economic weapon. The Jews pooled their money and bought the hotels that barred them. They bought Atlantic City and Miami Beach and anything else they wanted. Who owns Hollywood? Who runs the garment industry, the largest industry in New York City? But the Jew that's advising the Negro joins the NAACP, CORE, the Urban League, and others. With money donations, the Jew gains control, then he sends the black man doing all this wading-in, boring-in, even burying-in--everything but buying-in. Never shows him how to set up factories and hotels. Never advises him how to own what he wants. No, when there's something worth owning, the Jew's got it. Walk up and down in any Negro ghetto in America. Ninety percent of the worthwhile businesses you see are Jew-owned. Every night they take the money out. This helps the black man's community stay a ghetto.--- A man who tosses worms in the river isn't necessarily a friend of the fish. All the fish who take him for a friend, who think the worm's got no hook in it, usually end up in the frying pan. All these things dangled before us by the white liberal posing as a friend and benefactor have turned out to be nothing but bait to make us think we're making progress. The Supreme Court decision has never been enforced. Desegregation has never taken place. The promises have never been fulfilled. We have received only tokens, substitutes, trickery and deceit.----the white man must finally realize that he's the one who has committed the crimes that have produced the miserable condition that our people are in. He can't hide this guilt by reviling us today because we answer his criminal acts--past and present--with extreme and uncompromising resentment. He cannot hide his guilt by accusing us, his victims, of being racists, extremists and black supremacists. The white man must realize that the sins of the fathers are about to be visited upon the heads of the children who have continued those sins, only in more sophisticated ways.". when malcom spoke whites used to pee in their bants and got scared, so they had to please martin and give little by little what he wanted. without malcom, martin would not have gotten anything. i agree what he said. ""I believe in the brotherhood of man, all men, but I don’t believe in brotherhood with anybody who doesn’t want brotherhood with me. I believe in treating people right, but I’m not going to waste my time trying to treat somebody right who doesn’t know how to return the treatment.---There is nothing in our book, the Qoran, that teaches us to suffer peacefully. Our religion teaches us to be intelligent. be peaceful, be courteous, obey the law, respect everyone; but if someone puts his hand on you, send him to the cemetery. that’s a good religion" http://somalinet.com/forums_archives/4669/9364.html
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| | Sunday, February 18, 2001 - 08:50 am "Asad I think I am missing something here. I mean I still can't see where I said sympathy equates with war. The earlier postings you so helpfully re-pasted here seem to be saying EXACTLY the opposite of your claim." i think you are pretending to be missing the analogy. again, read it. you said: "Surely there is a difference between respecting achievement and hard-work and actively "fighting" for a side for the flimsiest of reasons?" then, i responded: "i never heard somalis who are actively "fighting" in Palestine. i didn't know feeling sympathy towards the palestinians mean "fighting" for them! if feeling sympathy toward palestinians means fighting for them, then respecting the jews means fighting for the jews, right? ;-)" then you came back and said: "ANON Fighting takes many shapes. Admiring and respecting people for their achievement isn't one of them. Boycotting businesses of the "enemy" IS a form of fighting. That is all." here is the analogy you claimed to be missing" then i said: "galool, you are wrong, again. see, *respecting* and *admiring* a person or people can be a form of *fighting* (hurting people). here is how: if i *admire* and *respect* the deeds of hitler (his achievements in putting together forces), the jews will accuse me of not only sucking-up to hilter, but the jews will *fight* me in retaliation and try to stop me (boycot me). ;-) so if *boycotting* the enemy is a form of *fighting*, then *admiring* the enemy is a form of *fighting*, got it? ;-)" you see, you accuse people of sucking-up to the palestinians, but when it is showed that you are also doing the same things (for the jews) that you accuse of others, you *deny* it. are you not a sycophant (a bootlicker), galool? ;-)" "But lets' not dwell on it." okay, but your *hypocrisy* (deny all you want to) can not be missed. ;-) "You are right, I am for for free speech and thought" you are not. if you were, you would not cry help when your beloved people (the jews) are told about them. "And can someone please issue a serious Fatwa against this moron who have been jamming the whole forums with meaningless copies of gibberish musings from the barrel-scrapings of the local asylum's deluded minds" "but of course you are not." i'm the one who told you that you are acting like a dictator, right? ;-) "That is why I thought you maybe able to help me out here" help you out so peopl would not say the facts about the jews, you beloved people? ;-) "and accuse this boring fella of some heineous blasphemy or the other, issue a Fatwa and threaten to make him a head-shorter unless he makes his posting a whole body shorter!" looks like you are the one who is accusing, insulting, begging and ordering people here, right? ;-)
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| | Sunday, February 18, 2001 - 12:03 pm Galool My point is what have the Palestinian methodologies gottent them over the last 50 years? Defeat after defeat, territorial loss after territorial loss. Do you think that they can't lose any more? Indeed the west bank could be ethnically cleansed and no one could stop it if Israel was adequately provoked. The flip side of the coin is, could their strategy work? No, it can't. As for the Tibetans, their problem is that China is not a democracy, so it is not very vulnerable to international public opinion. Asad The Israelis definately do not want the Palestinians to switch their methodologies. More accurrately put, the Sharon government doesn't want them to change, except he want them to be more violent. He wants as many excuses as he can muster to crush Palestinian resistance with extreme violence and hopefully annex more land by driving Palestinians off of it. The concept of no justice no peace does not always get the job done. South Africa broke primarily under international pressure, not kids throwing rocks. Their economy was trade dependent and they were having trouble finding trading partners. They had no god-father, non-aligned as they turned out to be (even though they wanted to be western oritented). Do you know what happened to the annoying Chechyans when they started trouble in the late 40s? Uncle Joe had them killed by the hundreds of thousands, those that surcived were sent to lovely vacation spots in Siberia. The Chechnyans learned how to behave after that until the good ol Soviet Union went away. This same solution could be employed by the Israelis. Ask the Chechnyans if they think it's better to be dead than oppressed. Most of them are dead now. The Chechnyans also did a poor job analyzing their enemies vulnerabilities. What I really find humrous about the last part of your write up is a refusal to admit that passive resistance can be more powerful than violent resistance. You seem to reject all historical examples out of hand and attack them with inaccurate revisionism. Even were you correct (and you obviously are not - the violent black resistance in America was a JOKE, same for India) that does not mean it can not prevail in the future. Listen carefully to MAD MACS prediction here. The Palestinians will get no gains from their violent resistance but will continue to lose lives, property and territory and provide the Israelis the excuses to do it. Let me ask you another question. Under what set of circumstances do you believe passive resistance is valid to defeat oppression? And do you think it is ineffective or Unislamic?
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| | Sunday, February 18, 2001 - 01:15 pm "My point is what have the Palestinian methodologies gottent them over the last 50 years? Defeat after defeat, territorial loss after territorial loss. Do you think that they can't lose any more? Indeed the west bank could be ethnically cleansed and no one could stop it if Israel was adequately provoked. The flip side of the coin is, could their strategy work? No, it can't." are you saying what the israeli terrorists have been doing is not ethncally cleansing? are you saying the reason the israeli terrorists attacked innocent people was they were proved? ;-) that is crazy and wicked. is there no reason for palestinain people to place themselves into the *tender mercies* of the israelis terrorists in adopting the kind of methodologies you and the israeli terrorists want for them. we know that the palestinians will be offered treatment any better than that they have received over the last fifty years? historical track records of the jews nature (their wickeness) are hard to refute. ;-) "Asad The Israelis definately do not want the Palestinians to switch their methodologies. More accurrately put, the Sharon government doesn't want them to change, except he want them to be more violent. He wants as many excuses as he can muster to crush Palestinian resistance with extreme violence and hopefully annex more land by driving Palestinians off of it." again the sharon government is not different than any other governments before his. you are talking about the same things. the fact that israeli terrorists (whoever is leading them) have always been the same. all they understand is force. they forced themselves and terrorzied innocent people before and they will continue to do so. no leader of theirs ever wanted peace with the palestinian people. sharon and the likes of him understand very well of one thing-----to please the wicked israelis (the so called holocaust suvivors and their children) they serve and who are after palestinian land and palestinian blood. they will not have it any other way other than the palestinian people being kicked out of palestine. it does not matter whatever the palestinian people do, but the reality is that israeli terrorism is the palestinians second-strongest bargaining chip (the injustice of their plight is the first, of course). by not acting fair deal, and refusing to agree any agreement of a fair deal, the sharon and those before him is their tactics, but every month or every year that goes by without peace means that israel's neighbors are more potently armed, and that the day of the nuclear suitcase is more imminent. i told you before things will never be always the same. changes will take place and it will not always be in the favor of the israeli terrorists. as i said before, the israeli terrorists will see terrorism they have never seen before as time goes. terrorims begets terrorism. as the palestinian people get fed up more and more by their conditons, you will see more suicide bombs, or any attacks in "israel", what would the palestinian get if we to stop defending themselves other than they got for the past 50 years since the wicked israelis don't stop and give up terrorizing the palestinian people? i guess more of the same. there is a proverb goes like this: "if its going to rain, at least, it should cloud over." "What I really find humrous about the last part of your write up is a refusal to admit that passive resistance can be more powerful than violent resistance. You seem to reject all historical examples out of hand and attack them with inaccurate revisionism. Even were you correct (and you obviously are not - the violent black resistance in America was a JOKE, same for India) that does not mean it can not prevail in the future." the funnier JOKE is that whites were so nice that they felt sorry for the blacks and africans because they didn't want their children asking questions why are the blacks suffering? how nice that white children's sypathy made the blacks free. ;-). it was always the whites and europeans who gave the blacks and africans their freedom without voilance and freedom fighters doing anything. every freedom that the whites gave to the blacks and africans were the result of blacks singing "we shall over come". how nice of the whites. it was wrong for malcom x to have said "it is crimminal to teach a man not to defend himself when he is the constant victim of brutel attacks.----you can’t separate peace from freedom because no one can be at peace unless he has his freedom", right, mad mac? but the reality is that in so many parts in africa, the africans didn't sing "we shall over come". there were freedom fighters who were always trying to kick out the colonaizers and they succeeded and there were no one to boycot the europeans. ;-) if feeling sypathy and non-violence method got something for people, ask the native americans (the peace loving people) and their history of oppression. ;-) "Let me ask you another question. Under what set of circumstances do you believe passive resistance is valid to defeat oppression? And do you think it is ineffective or Unislamic? " i think i told you before that there are times when you can turn the other cheek and that is okay and allowed, but there are times when you do not do tooth for tooth and eye for eye, it becomes foolish tactic. fear of dying does not have to prevent you to resisting oppression.
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| | Sunday, February 18, 2001 - 01:50 pm Why is it, that when we hear of violence in Israel, American evangelical Christians tend to lay all the blame on the PLO and totally exonerate the Israeli leader and his ilk? I suppose it is partly due to a residual guilt complex over having turned a blind eye on Germany in the 1930s, and partly the result of eschatological enthusiasm. Never mind that the prophecies speak of Israel first turning back to the LORD; never mind that the NT understands this as conversion to Christ -- the re- establishment of Israel as a political entity seemed to fit prophecy well enough to support eschatological fervor and fuel evidential apologetics. So, it is argued, the ancient promises gave the land to Israel, and the Palestinians have no business being there, never mind that it has been their ancestral homeland for dozens of generations. If there is violence, therefore, it must be the fault of the Palestinians. Certainly from what one sees in the media one can get the impression that the "hot" violence is mostly perpetrated by the Palestinians. But anyone who visits Israel and looks at the situation can see there is a reason why the Palestinians sometimes get violent. They have to live every day with a chronic oppressive "cold" violence. Palestinians, including Christian Palestinians by the way, are herded into ghettos. Civil rights are virtually non-existent. Access to water is severely restricted in some places, by virtue of the way the territory lines are drawn. Unemployment runs over 80% in many areas, since industry is almost always in Israeli held territory. And the unemployed are not permitted to leave the ghetto to look for work. The government of Israel even admits to using torture to exact confessions and information from Palestinians, though they prefer the term "moderate forceful persuasion," which is so moderate that some prisoners have died or been permanently disabled. But to return to the present dilemma in Israel: What exactly would the Israeli government have Mr. Arafat do about the Jerusalem market bombing? The actual perpetrators are dead. No doubt Israel wants Arafat to do the same as Israel is doing in the Palestinian territories it still holds round up whoever has a possible association with Hamas and hand them over to Israeli interrogators for some moderate forceful persuasion. But when an Israeli radical assassinated Rabin, did the government round up all the Israeli radical right-wingers and use moderate forceful persuasion on them? Of course not. The fact is, you cannot make a captive lion calm down by squeezing it, unless your plan is really to squeeze it to death. Anything less than death simply increases the desperation and panic, and thus the apparent viciousness of the animal. Likewise, Israel will not overcome violence from Palestinians by squeezing them. Both Arafat and Rabin understood that. Both were old campaigners in the conflict, who finally realized that violence usually begets more violence, unless somebody decides not to retaliate. Somebody must decide to forego vengeance. When this began to happen, Hamas on the one side and radical Israelis on the other objected with violence. But it is as unfair to blame Arafat and the entire PLO for the present situation as it is to blame Netanyahu and Israelis in general. Perhaps more so, because Netanyahu has decided to respond to the violence by his own violence, though of a subtler kind increasing joblessness by further restricting travel, cutting off food supply, raiding homes, and torturing -- oops, sorry --forcefully persuading people who might have some connection with the suicide bombers. But, some will say, was it not a stated objective of the PLO to eradicate Israel? Did not Arafat himself participate in atrocities? Indeed he did. I have no interest in trying to exonerate Arafat. But try to look at things from a Palestinian perspective for a change. In 1948 Israel became a state, hundreds of thousands of Palestinians were uprooted from their ancestral homelands, and those that remained were herded into the poorest areas and left with little for livelihood. Palestinians responded by covenanting to destroy the state of Israel. They made a foolish attempt to do so in 1967, throwing lives away against vastly superior technology provided by Uncle Sam and Great Britain, and Israel not only defended itself, but like Lamech paid back seventy-seven-fold by taking over vast amounts more of Palestinian homeland along with areas of its enemy neighbors. The neighboring territories are now returned, but Palestinians are still disenfranchised, the bits of land they had been left with are slowly but inexorably handed over to Jewish settlers, their movements are sharply restricted, and they are not allowed to leave the area to find work; plus every hour they must humbly grovel before the occupational forces that despise them (remember, I'm talking about how it looks to a Palestinian, not how Jewish soldiers actually feel). And when the pressure occasionally makes some young man go berserk and kill himself to kill an Israeli, the Israelis come in and punish the wife and kids by razing their home. Is it any wonder that some Palestinians go berserk? In such a society Arafat must appear a model of restraint! Is there any hope? Of course! A couple years ago, a tiny group of Israeli Christians joined for worship and a meal with a small group of Palestinian Christians. There was true shalom in that house in Bethlehem that night. But even apart from the ultimate source of reconciliation in the Gospel of Jesus the Christ there is a modest hope for a temporary peace. Many Israelis know that squeezing Palestinians to death is not the answer, and many Palestinians know that they must learn to live with the Jewish state. But as long as Americans continue their one-sided support for an oppressive regime in Israel, that regime has little motivation to change, and desperate Palestinians have little encouragement to be patient.
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| | Sunday, February 18, 2001 - 02:13 pm Johnny-Johnny, always online, don't you have better things to do with your life? Poor man...
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| | Sunday, February 18, 2001 - 02:50 pm Why don't you GET A LIFE, JohnnyBOY?? Besides from the bottle and the computer? You know, you don't have THAT many years left... ;-)))) OK-OK, I promise, I'll stop teasing you, helpless man. it's just that it is so funny...heheh!
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| | Sunday, February 18, 2001 - 09:55 pm Ahhh you didn't answer the question dude. Give me a scenerio where it is acceptable in your mind to use non-violent protest to oust an oppressive regime. Furthermore, I didn't sday violent response is never the best alternative, nor did I say that it is never a valid alternative. In this case I did not say that Palestinian violence is not a valid reaction, I said it was doomed to be a failed one. The Vietnamese example is one where violence was clearly successful, albeit at a very high cost which created somewhat of a phyric victory. Algieria was able to successful exmploy violence. The USC and SPM successfully employed violence to overthrow Siad Barre, although I'm not sure it was worth the cost. We repalced oppression with anarchy, but hey, it's better to be dead or anarchic than oppressed so I guess most Somalis think things are better today than they were 12 years ago (those that are alive to ask anyway). You just don't want to face reality and recognize that the current Paletsinian approach, while justifiable, can not succeed. I think Muslims are brain washed on this subject and have a hard time recognizing that the Israelis are intractable and certainly can not be defeated by the Arabs militarily.
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| | Monday, February 19, 2001 - 06:59 am "Ahhh you didn't answer the question dude. Give me a scenerio where it is acceptable in your mind to use non-violent protest to oust an oppressive regime." i said there are times when you can turn the other cheek and that is okay and allowed, but there are times if you do not do tooth for tooth and eye for eye, it becomes foolish tactic. "Furthermore, I didn't sday violent response is never the best alternative, nor did I say that it is never a valid alternative. In this case I did not say that Palestinian violence is not a valid reaction, I said it was doomed to be a failed one." palestinian people have no choice put to resist and do whatever they can----win or loose. fear of dying does not have to prevent them to resisting oppression. seeking freedom comes with price (blood shed). there was always violence protests that got the job done, even in india and other places you love to mention, there were violence prestests along with non-violence protests and boycotting. i know of no scenerio where the use of non-violent protest ousted an oppressive regime. ;-) "The Vietnamese example is one where violence was clearly successful, albeit at a very high cost which created somewhat of a phyric victory. Algieria was able to successful exmploy violence. The USC and SPM successfully employed violence to overthrow Siad Barre, although I'm not sure it was worth the cost. We repalced oppression with anarchy, but hey, it's better to be dead or anarchic than oppressed so I guess most Somalis think things are better today than they were 12 years ago (those that are alive to ask anyway). You just don't want to face reality and recognize that the current Paletsinian approach, while justifiable, can not succeed. I think Muslims are brain washed on this subject and have a hard time recognizing that the Israelis are intractable and certainly can not be defeated by the Arabs militarily. " it will be foolish for the palestinian people to expect from the israeli terrorists to suddently change and feel sympathy and have *tender mercies* if they sing "we shall over come". ;-) the so called holocaust suvivors and their children would have felt sympathy for their victims long time ago. all the israeli terrorists and those who support them are after is palestinian land and palestinian blood. it is like hilter didn't do anything to them and they don't remember their blight and what happened to them when. the israeli terrorists and those who support them will not have it any other way other than the palestinian people to leave their land or homes peacefully without resistance. they love this kind of effort from the palestinian people. they say if the palestinian people to leave just like that without resistance while sining "we shall over come", they will win something. ;-) if feeling sypathy and non-violence method got something for people and won against oppression, ask the native americans (the peace loving people) and their history of oppression and where it got them. ;-)
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| | Monday, February 19, 2001 - 11:38 am You say it is foolish for the Palestinians to think they can pressure the Israelis with non-violent protest. How would they know?? They have not tried. 50 years of violence has gotten them deeper and deeper into the hole. If they try non-violence for a few years and it doesn't work they can always go back to the psychopathic trail. I mean what's the harm in trying this route? It's pretty obvious to even the casual observer that while the violent approach might feel good, it's clearly not having the desired result. BTW I submit to you that violent protest by blacks in America had zero effect in the passage of the civil rights act of 1965.
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| | Monday, February 19, 2001 - 01:34 pm "You say it is foolish for the Palestinians to think they can pressure the Israelis with non-violent protest.How would they know?? They have not tried. 50 years of violence has gotten them deeper and deeper into the hole. If they try non-violence for a few years and it doesn't work they can always go back to the psychopathic trail. I mean what's the harm in trying this route? It's pretty obvious to even the casual observer that while the violent approach might feel good, it's clearly not having the desired result. " it is foolish because all the israeli terrorists (the so called holocaust suvivors and their children) and those who support them are after is palestinian land and palestinian blood. the israeli terrorists and those who support them will not have it in any other way other than the palestinian people to leave their land or homes peacefully without resistance. they love this kind of effort from the palestinian people; it will make it easy for them. do think after 50 years, the israeli terrorists will behave well and call back the palestinian people to come back to their homes because they song "we shall over come" and didn't throw stones? ;-) I told you that i know of no scenerio where the use of non-violent protest ousted an oppressive regime before. ;-) "BTW I submit to you that violent protest by blacks in America had zero effect in the passage of the civil rights act of 1965." and i submit to you that without violent protest--without those who didn't sing "we shall over come" while their heads were smashed into pieces; without malcom x, black panther party, blacks would be in worst condition than the so called red indian people who own this county. again, if feeling sypathy and non-violence method got something for people and won against oppression, ask the native americans (the peace loving people) and their history of oppression and where it got them. ;-)
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| | Tuesday, February 20, 2001 - 12:55 am Asad Basically you are wrong here on both counts. Not a little wrong but a lot wrong. It's clear to me that you just don't understand either US history or the true nature of the Israeli government. You have to move beyond labels and start analyzing the problem in depth. You don't seem to know how to do this. I asked you why not try non-violent protest. To which you offered no real retort. What is the drawback in trying it? It certainly can't have consequences more negative than what they have experienced heretofore. Even if you THINK it won't work, there's certainly no harm in trying. We already KNOW that violent protest is not going to work. I don't want to sound condescending here, but as for violent protest in America, you're just flat out wrong. Martin Luther Kings movement was THE dominant driving factor in causing a change in attitude in America - a change that is still ongoing. Had there not been a single riot all the changes would still have taken place. On this point you are just flat out wrong. The power of images is the most potent power of all in a democracy. And security forces reacting with violence against peaceful protest is an image that resonates. If the Israeli security forces used violence to suppress non-violent protest it would undermine the Israeli resolve. If you riot and you are killed, you are neither truly effective nor do you get any sympathy from the general populace. But if you are engaged in a sit in and are shot - people notice. That's why in the last four months all those Palestinian stone throwers that are dead have died meaningless deaths. They are not generating sympathy. Top that off with their outstanding information warfare campaign "Death to Israel" "Death to America" "Allahu Ahkbar" (What God being great has to do with the conflit I don't know). It's as if the verbiage is coreographed to scare Israeli civilians into voting for right wing fanatics who then kill lots of Palestinians. You call this "blaming the victim". I call it poor analysis of the problem. If I am a leader it is my job to get results. This course of action is not getting the desired results. Blame whoever you want. I'm not in the blame game, I'm in the analysis game. When we get ready to conduct an operation do you think I write up a report explaining who was right and who was wrong and who is justified to do what? No. I look for vulnerabilities and weaknesses which can be exploited, lay out the current situation, what kind of enemy respionse we can expect and when in response to our planned action. Now let's take this conflict. Remember I don't have a dog in this fight (at least not right now). I don't care if Israel is overun or if the Palestinians all end up living in Jordan. I don't know any Israelis and I only know one Palestinian. So my analysis is from a neutral standpoint. What I am saying is that current Palestinian methods are going to cause a violent reaction. Whether the Palestinians are justified in their action is irrelevant to my analysis. I'm just telling you what's going to happen, not what should happen. And then I'm telling you what the Palestinians should do to achieve a better result. If you want to understand a situation you need to eliminate pejoratives like "terrorist" and "evil" from your vocabulary. These are political words used by politicians who are trying to scheme and influence. They are not valid in the scheme of serious problem solving. If you use them in a relevant way fine. But you use them just to denegrate one side (the Israelis) which for the purposes of our discussion is irrelevant. It betrays your inability to look at this situation in an analytical manner. Whether or not what Israeli security forces are doing makes them terrorist is not relevant to what they will do. Even "Terrorist" have objectives. Think the problem through. How do you envision Palestinian success with their current methodologies?
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| | Tuesday, February 20, 2001 - 07:37 am "Asad Basically you are wrong here on both counts. Not a little wrong but a lot wrong." i would say the same things about you. ;-) "It's clear to me that you just don't understand either US history or the true nature of the Israeli government." i told you many times the true nature (their wickedness) and the intentions of israeli terrorists and those who support them historically. they want palestinians to go away quietly and not resist----which is not never going to happen. i don't think you understand this. ;-) "You have to move beyond labels and start analyzing the problem in depth. You don't seem to know how to do this." analyzing the problem in depth without diagnosing the symptoms and telling like it is is fruitless. besides, you and i are not here to solve the problems in that area, are we? ;-) we are here to analyze the problem only. you said "Morals have no place in the debate." and i told you "without morals, debates (discussions) would be fruitless." you said "That is why your analysis is flawed." and i said "that is why your analysis is immoral (dishonest)." ;-) "I asked you why not try non-violent protest. To which you offered no real retort." i did. i told you that i know of no scenerio where the use of non-violent protest ousted an oppressive regime before. ;-) "What is the drawback in trying it?" i told you that palestinian people would not do what the israeli terrorists and those who support them want from them-----to sing "we shall over come". "It certainly can't have consequences more negative than what they have experienced heretofore. Even if you THINK it won't work, there's certainly no harm in trying." i told you violence begets violence. oppression is worst than murder. tell the isreali terrorists to *try* stop terrorizing innocent people and see if they would accept it. ;-) "We already KNOW that violent protest is not going to work." we already told you that i know of no scenerio where the use of non-violent protest ousted an oppressive regime before. ;-) "I don't want to sound condescending here, but as for violent protest in America, you're just flat out wrong. Martin Luther Kings movement was THE dominant driving factor in causing a change in attitude in America - a change that is still ongoing. Had there not been a single riot all the changes would still have taken place. On this point you are just flat out wrong." that is wrong. that is what the whites let people believe. i told you before------"the history of black resistances were not only the likes of martin l king-----turn the other cheek mentality is not what saved the blacks from white racists. if the blacks continued to sing that song-----"we shall over come" while their heads were smashed into pieces, they would be still singing these songs and be in wrost positions. there were other movements (other than martin's turn the other cheek of the so called resistance movements) which had *useful radical ideologies* for the blacks. molcom's militant voice was something whites feared the most. ;-). by any means necessary was a powerful message, a message which whites heard and responded to better than the message 'we shall over come'. ;-) malcom really was a shocking and he uplifted many sleeping blacks. during the 1960's malcom's stand against white racists gained in popularity in opposition to "elite" civil rights leaders like martin which laid the basis for the black liberation movement that coalesced with the war cry of "black power" in 1966. self-defence preached by malcom was more reliastice than "turn the other cheek" preached by martin. malcom said concerning non-violence adopted by martin these: "it is crimminal to teach a man not to defend himself when he is the constant victim of brutel attacks.----you can’t separate peace from freedom because no one can be at peace unless he has his freedom.----I believe in the brotherhood of man, all men, but I don’t believe in brotherhood with anybody who doesn’t want brotherhood with me. I believe in treating people right, but I’m not going to waste my time trying to treat somebody right who doesn’t know how to return the treatment.---There is nothing in our book, the Qoran, that teaches us to suffer peacefully. Our religion teaches us to be intelligent. be peaceful, be courteous, obey the law, respect everyone; but if someone puts his hand on you, send him to the cemetery. that’s a good religion.---If it is wrong to be violent defending black women and black children and black babies and black men, then it is wrong for America to draft us, and make us violent abroad in defense of her. And if it is right for America to draft us, and teach us how to be violent in defense of her, then it is right for you and me to do whatever is necessary to defend our own people right here in this country.---as I see the law of justice, it says as you sow, so shall you reap. The white man has reveled as the rope snapped black men's necks. He has reveled around the lynching fire. But let's not forget the Jew. Anybody that gives even a just criticism of the Jew is instantly labeled anti-Semite. The Jew cries louder than anybody else if anybody criticizes him. You can tell the truth about any minority in America, but make a true observation about the Jew, and if it doesn't pat him on the back, then he uses his grip on the news media to label you anti-Semite. Let me say just a word about the Jew and the black man. The Jew is always anxious to advise the black man. But they never advise him how to solve his problem the way the Jews solved their problem. The Jew never went sitting-in and crawling-in and sliding-in and freedom-riding, like he teaches and helps Negroes to do. The Jews stood up, and stood together, and they used their ultimate power, the economic weapon. The Supreme Court decision has never been enforced. Desegregation has never taken place. The promises have never been fulfilled. We have received only tokens, substitutes, trickery and deceit.----the white man must finally realize that he's the one who has committed the crimes that have produced the miserable condition that our people are in. He can't hide this guilt by reviling us today because we answer his criminal acts--past and present--with extreme and uncompromising resentment. He cannot hide his guilt by accusing us, his victims, of being racists, extremists and black supremacists. The white man must realize that the sins of the fathers are about to be visited upon the heads of the children who have continued those sins, only in more sophisticated ways.". when malcom spoke whites used to pee in their bants and got scared, so they had to please martin and give little by little what he wanted. without malcom, martin would not have gotten anything. I believe in treating people right, but I’m not going to waste my time trying to treat somebody right who doesn’t know how to return the treatment.---There is nothing in our book, the Qoran, that teaches us to suffer peacefully. Our religion teaches us to be intelligent. be peaceful, be courteous, obey the law, respect everyone; but if someone puts his hand on you, send him to the cemetery. that’s a good religion"
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| | Tuesday, February 20, 2001 - 08:17 am REAL ANALYSIS OF THE SITUATION: Israeli Occupation and the Palestinian Question by Kim Milone This paper was selected by the Department of History as the Outstanding Paper for the 1987-1988 academic year "Occupation corrupts, and lengthy occupation corrupts absolutely." <1> So says Uri Avneri, an Israeli political "dove," in his characterization of Israel's occupation of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. The occupation has added a new dimension to the violence which has beset the Middle East since before the formation of the Israeli state, casting Israel in the role not of defender, fighting for survival -- not even of aggressor in the limited, first-strike nature of the Six Day War -- but of aggressor, conqueror, and above all, oppressor. For it is the existence of a substantial Arab population under the rule of Israel which has complicated relations among the middle eastern powers almost beyond hope of solution. The complication has particularly affected the question of establishing a Palestinian homeland. Why has occupation had such a vexing effect on the already vexed politics of the region? An examination of the problems entailed by occupation, especially co-existence, political rights and confusion of long-term goals on both sides of the conflict, casts new light on the roots of the violence currently dominating the area. The examination will look particularly at the imperfect match between goals and methods, again on both sides, and how this very mismatch reveals the values of the two sides in the conflict. The Palestinians and the Israelis share a common goal: an independent state with the power of self-determination, in an area of land bounded by Syria, Jordan, Lebanon and the Mediterranean. Before the creation of the Israeli state in 1948, it was a question of coexistence between two elements ruled by the British in the mandate of Palestine: Jews and Arabs. During the period after the Palestinian War (1948-49) but before the Six-day War (1967), the Palestinians were absorbed either into Israel or into one of the Arab states. After the 1967 war, occupation reversed the original situation, elevating the Jews to a position of dominance over the indigenous Arabs. The total population of Palestine was 752,000 in 1922, with Arabs comprising more than 90 percent of the total. By 1967, the total population was 2,777,000 with 393,000 Arabs or 14.2 percent of the population. <2> The percentages have remained constant over the years, but the Israelis have become quite divided over the issues of occupation, borders and the related questions of policy towards the ethnic, religious and political elements of the population. Each group views the Arabs differently, from tolerated neighbors to dangerous enemies, and from potential oppressor to the oppressed. The division centers around the expansion of the original Zionist dream of a "home in Palestine secured by public law" into the desire for a "Greater Israel" that includes the captured territories. <3> On the political right, Orthodox Jews are part of what has been termed the "creeping annexation" of the occupied territories. By 1986, there were 105 Jewish settlements in the area they call Judea and Samaria, the West Bank and Gaza Strip, with a population of 46,000 Jews. <4> This minority living among 1.3 million Arabs considers this land home on the basis of their biblical heritage. One resident in the settlement of Ofr, Mr. Harel, commented that "to live in Judea and Samaria is to return home in the deepest sense. The attachment to the land is almost erotic. <5> Another resident living in Ariel over the past four years, Dina Salit, is determined to remain on the West Bank: "My kids go to a Government school. I have a Government mortgage. I pay taxes to the Government. To me, I am at home." <6> However, this is a typical example of the shortsightedness of some Israelis. First, they move in and set up house as if the question of rights to the land has already been settled in their favor. Such convictions are endorsed by the Likud party, led by Yitzhak Shamir and dominated by the conservative Sephardic emigrants from North Africa and the Middle East. They are willing to tolerate the Palestinians in the occupied territories, but at a distance without understanding them. Second, these Israelis fail to recognize that the Palestinians have an equally justified right to live on the land in question. The Jews claim the Bible as evidence, and the Palestinians claim historical presence as their evidence. The Palestinian reaction to the settlers in captured territories suffers from the same weakness in vision as the Israeli. The goals are dangerously opposite: the Jews want to settle the land amid the Arabs, while the Arabs want to resist annexation at any cost. A New York emigrant, Rabbi Meir Kahane, endorses an even more conservative program: he demands the expulsion of the two million Arabs under Israeli rule. He cites the higher Arab birthrate as a prime danger to the 3 million Jews and their country. His premise is correct: the gross reproduction rate of the Jewish population is 1.59 as compared to the 4.05 rate for Muslims. <7> However, his conclusion is false. The mass deportation of Palestinians from their perceived homeland is not feasible, and even if it were, it would destroy all possibilities of a peaceful solution, given the present propensity for violence among the Palestinians suffering under the Israeli thumb of occupation. However, Kahane does not seem to have any substantial support among Israelis. One Israeli youth expressed typical concern: "First he'll get rid of the Arabs and then he'll get rid of anyone who doesn't agree with him." <8> Two years before, Shimon Peres, then Prime Minister, called Kahane a "shame to our people, but not a danger to our country." <9> However, it is a disturbing line of thought for Palestinians and Israelis alike. For example, one young Israeli declared "I want to kill all the Arabs," and only modified his statement to an echo of Kahane after his friends registered uneasiness and disapproval: "We can't kill the Arabs. Think about the Holocaust. We can't do that to someone else." <10> He may lack solid support, but he represents a dangerous intolerance that the Jews know only too well. Moderates, led by the Labour Party's Shimon Peres, have endorsed the more progressive concept of "territorial compromise" in exchange for peace with the Arabs: Basically, we wouldn't want to annex by forceful means the Arab population into Israel. We don't want to become a master nation. This is a moral principle and a political commitment. We are looking for a solution. <11> There is a fundamental flaw with this seemingly enlightened position. Peres claims to be "looking for a solution" and to be willing to negotiate, but he's looking in the wrong place. Peres and the Labour Party members refuse to negotiate with the Palestinian Liberation Organization. A "Jordanian-Palestinian delegation" may hammer out an agreement with Israel, but it would be unacceptable to the majority of Palestinians. Moving further to the left on the political spectrum, the liberal peace activists believe in a home "where one's own people is in a majority, and where one can live a free and democratic Jewish life, without feeling that one is suppressing another people." <12> This indicated that the liberal goal is a return to pre-1967 Israel, an Israel without the West Bank and Gaza Strip. Similar sentiments were expressed by activists demonstrating in Jerusalem during May of 1987: "We are out of Lebanon, now let's get out of the West Bank." <13> Would this goal of an unoccupied West Bank and Gaza Strip be acceptable to the Palestinians? No. According to a survey by the al-Fajr newspaper (Jerusalem), only 16.9 percent would prefer the establishment of the Palestinian state in this area. The majority (77.9 percent) called for a Palestinian state in all of Palestine. <14> The Israelis are not listening to the demands of the Palestinians because their demands could push Israel out of existence, a hard fact that perhaps many Israelis fear and use as an excuse to avoid direct negotiations with the PLO. After all, if it is discussed, it is a possibility. Israel's refusal to negotiate with the PLO is one of the most persistent stumbling blocks to the peace process. This leads to an important question: are the goals of the PLO and Arab nations consistent with those of the Palestinians in the occupied territories? A corollary question of equal importance is whether or not these non-organized Palestinians want the PLO to speak for them as they pursue their goal of a national state. Once again, there are no clear answers, only clues. Do the PLO and the Israeli Arabs share the same goal? The evidence is unclear, perhaps because the participants themselves are not always clear about their own goals. During a camp program at Neve Shalom, an interfaith community on the West Bank designed to improve relations between Arabs and Jews by bringing them together in dialogue, Salman, a Palestinian teenage boy, is confronted with a troublesome situation: "If a Palestinian state is established, I'm not going to leave my land to go and live in a Palestinian state. But I won't help the Israelis." Taher asks, "[W]ould you remain and go in the army?" <15> He finds it hard to choose between leaving his land in Israel or becoming a full citizen of that country. After a few minutes, he decides that he would "prefer to go to the Palestinian state." Another teenager, Diab, provides a clue to the second question, whether the Arabs accept the PLO as their representative on the world stage. Diab claims that he is "with them in his heart and body. My first obligation is to feel close to them." <16> The most extensive answer to the question of the PLO is found in the al-Fajr survey of Arabs on the West Bank and Gaza strip. The results indicate that more than 90 percent of the Palestinians believe that the PLO is their sole legitimate representative and that more than 70 percent regard Yasir Arafat as their leader. <17> While these sources are not exhaustive, some of them do indicate that the PLO is recognized by a variety of Palestinians as their representative organ. Perhaps the Israelis should release their preconceptions of and temper their reaction to the PLO in order to facilitate the commencement of negotiations, if they are honestly "looking for a solution." Palestinian, Israeli-Arab, neighbor, or enemy: the names may differ, but the goal remains constant. The Palestinians demand a homeland in the area formally known as Palestine: The whole Arab people is unalterably opposed to the . . . Jewish State in Palestine. Its opposition is based primarily upon right. The Arabs of Palestine are descendants of the indigenous inhabitants of the country.... [T]hey form the majority of the population; as such they cannot submit to a policy of immigration which if pursued for long will turn them from a majority into a minority in an alien state . . . <18> The statement was submitted by the Arab Office in Jerusalem to the Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry in 1946, two years before the creation of Israel. The total population of Palestine was 1,810,000 in 1945, and the Arabs comprised nearly 70 percent of the population. The percentage dropped to 19.4 percent in 1948 as the population decreased to 806,000, a result of the creation of the state of Israel which precipitated the exodus of 700,000 Arabs and the alteration of boundaries during the war. <19, 20> However, this dispersal did not silence the demand for a Palestinian homeland, as evidenced by the 1963 Draft Constitution of the Palestinian Liberation Organization: the purpose of the PLO is to aid the Palestinian people in the "liberation of their country. " <21> The 1963 document The Palestinian National Charter: Resolutions of the Palestine National Council expressed the goals of the Palestinian people, as perceived by the PLO: 1. Palestine is the homeland of the Arab Palestinian people. . . . 2. Palestine, with the boundaries it had during the British Mandate, is an indivisible territorial unity. 3. The Palestinian people possess the legal right to determine their destiny after achieving the liberation of their country. . . . <22> The Arab Palestinians maintained their position over the years, even as their numbers dwindled in the country called Israel. <23> The population of Israel in 1967 was 2,777,000, with Arabs comprising only 14.2 percent of that figure. By 1975, the percentage had not altered radically, increasing to 15.3 percent; they remained a minority in the land they call home. The Twelfth Arab Summit Conference which convened in Morocco in the fall of 1982, saluted the "steadfastness of the Palestinian revolutionary forces," reiterating its support for their goals by adopting the following principles: 1. Israel's withdrawal from all Arab territories occupied in 1967. 2. The removal of settlements set up by Israel in the Arab territories after 1967. 3. The creation of an independent Palestinian state with Jerusalem as its capital. <24> This statement echoed United Nations Resolution 242 of 1967: Emphasizing the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war and the need to work for a just and lasting peace in which every State in the area can live in security . . . (i) Calling for the withdrawal of Israeli armed forces from territories occupied in the recent conflict; (ii) Termination of all claims of states of belligerency and respect for and acknowledgement of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every State in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force. . . . <25> The variety of voices purporting to speak for the Palestinians is not exhausted by the above samples. However, after twenty-one years of occupation and forty years of coexistence, the common goal remains unchanged. Nothing less than an independent state of Palestine in the area of the former British mandate is acceptable. An investigation of the methods used by both the Israelis and the Palestinians in the pursuit of their goals reveals a basic connection between what each side will do to achieve its goal and why they are able to do what is necessary. One fundamental flaw is shared by the Israelis and the Palestinians: both sides use methods that are appropriate for the control of short term problems but are ineffective tools for concluding the conflict. The Israeli methods address the need to control demonstrations, street violence and terrorism; they are simply soothing the symptoms without correctly diagnosing the disease. Similarly, the Palestinians cannot see beyond their hatred to the heart of the problem: they are facing an established nation with legitimate nationalistic desires, but they continually approach this state as an invading force. The connection between ambitions and values is quite clear on both sides: the proclaimed goal appears to be non-negotiable and the methods are ill-conceived and naive attempts to intimidate the opposition. For it is the continued reliance on increasing random acts of violence which has perpetuated misconceptions and increased intolerance among the Israelis and the Palestinians; this is unfortunate, as decades of violence have done little to improve the situation. What has caused this reliance on violence instead of diplomacy or negotiation? Does this indicate an erosion of basic humanitarian values, i.e., basic respect for human life? The as yet unknown answers to these questions would provide a substantial clue to the Palestinian Question. However, a close analysis of the methods used by each side in their struggle and the reflection of the values motivating (justifying?) the actions of both the Palestinians and the Israelis may provide a glimmer of understanding, something both sides seem to lack. Violence is a primary method used by the Arabs as they try to achieve the goal of a Palestinian state. According to the al-Fajr survey, over 78 percent of those polled felt that "acts of force are justified in the pursuit of the Palestinian cause," and 60.7 percent considered "armed struggle" to be the most effective tactic. <26> Why are these percentages so high? Because it is a war waged on the streets by mechanics, students and housewives. One resident describes it as a "twilight war," a war without boundaries and rules. <27> The odd nature of the struggle is reflected in the specific acts of violence that were considered by those surveyed: 87.6 percent approved of the hijacking of an Israeli bus in 1979; 60.5 percent approved of placing a bomb on an El Al airplane; and 20.7 percent approved of bombing civilian planes in general. <28> Distinctions between civilian and soldier are unusual in this war without rules. For example, Ofra Moses was driving with her family when a (presumed) Palestinian threw a bomb into her car, burning her alive. A West Bank Palestinian lawyer described her as "a settler, the root of all evil." At her funeral, she was described as a "soldier" and compared to fallen Israeli fighters in Lebanon. <29> However, it is the young generation of Palestinians, those who have grown up under Israeli occupation, who are endorsing the random acts of violence. Palestinian youths express their resistance by throwing rocks and a few homemade bombs. Incidents of rock throwing, assaults with homemade weapons and violent demonstrations are increasing to more than 3,000 per year. <30> But this is more than a list of statistics; it is an indication of the desperation felt by those who have only heard of freedom in "their land." The 25-year-old refugee, Nasser, expresses this sense of alienation: "I see where my father lived and the land we owned, but I cannot pluck a single flower." <31> A five-year-old girl named Nisrin is too young to understand the complex elements in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, but she feels the same pain, and it is revealed in her answer to the question of her future occupation: "Either a lawyer or a fedayi (guerilla)." <32> Her father explains his daughter's answer as a result of the violence that surrounds her life. Is it a case of environmental conditioning? Hanna Siniora, the editor of the daily Arabic paper al-Fajr, offers an insight: [Young Palestinians have]... lived with Israel, and they know its limitations, and they aren't impressed by the superpower image of Israel. And one result is that they are more uncompromising, more disposed to a military response. <33> A 24-year-old Palestinian, Ahmed, supports this thesis. He claims that he and his friends are not afraid of the Israelis, emphasizing the discrepancy between the sophistication of the weapons and the cowardliness of the soldiers: "How else can you explain the fact that when a boy of 10 throws a stone at a soldier, the soldier's response is to shoot him with a machine-gun?" <34> The violent methods endorsed by the Palestinians are more than a manifestation of their survival in a hostile environment. Rather, they are a gauge of their frustration with occupation, of desperation to achieve their goal -- at any price. Non-violent methods are not as popular with the Palestinians due to feelings of desperation and helplessness after their numerous years under the thumb of military occupation. According to the al-Fajr Poll, 20.2 percent believed in the value of "steadfastness," remaining in the area and resisting assimilation into Israeli society; 7.3 percent responded favorably to "diplomatic initiative"; and only 1.2 percent endorsed "civil disobedience" as an effective method. <35> The Palestinians are afraid of listening to the Israelis, according to one resident named Ahmed: "Sooner or later the Israelis would try to explain the situation from their point of view, and and that would be very dangerous to us." <36> The Palestinians fear that negotiations with Israel would be less productive than attempting to force a solution through the use of violence. However, a portion of the small Israeli-Arab middle class is opposed to the use of violence. One young woman, Abu-Saud, was warned by the Palestinian businessmen who own a-Rawda, the community college she attends, after writing poetry expressing nationalist feelings: "They also accused me of inciting the other students, and they warned me that if I made trouble it would harm the reputation of the college." <37> However, this opposition to violence by the Palestinians seems more like the typical co-option by the Israelis of the potential enemy into the established power structure. An analogy can be made to the Chinese gentry class of the Ming dynasty (1368-1662). They performed a role similar to that of the modern businessman; they had influence and received official encouragement for their civic duties but were neither appointed to official positions nor recipients of government salaries. They were denied official positions because they were not born into the established class, but they were sufficiently intelligent or ambitious to challenge the structure of the Ming dynasty's Confucian bureaucracy. In order to avoid possible attempts to overthrow the government, they were given a modest amount of local power -- outside of the exclusive Confucian class of bureaucrats and scholars. Similarly, these Palestinian businessmen have become more comfortable within the system and are a part of the Israeli structure blocking the Palestinian state. The Israelis use a variety of methods in their attempt to maintain the protective structure against the advances of the Palestinians. The spotlight has been on the use of violence by the Israelis, but they also rely on harassment and discrimination to control the Arabs under their rule. According to Israeli military government regulations, a "suspect" can be held for up to 18 days without an appearance before a judge and for six months before a trial. In 1983, the West Bank human rights group, Law in the Service of Man, accused the Israelis of rounding up young Palestinians immediately before the tawejihi, the university entrance exam held twice a year. This tactic effectively halts the education process for many Arabs. <38> Even the basic need for security from criminals is manipulated by the Israelis. The sign on the police station in the Arab town of Ramallah is in English and Hebrew, not Arabic. <39> One Gaza psychiatrist, Eyad el-Sarra, apprehended an intruder himself, without even thinking of calling the Israeli officials. He feels that they would have exhibited little concern for his safety. <40> Palestinians are subjected to more subtle forms of discrimination, ranging from arbitrary spot checks of Arab-owned cars, to deliberately small Arabic letters on highway signs. Arab license plate differ in color from those of the Jews: blue instead of yellow. Is this racism, revenge for the forced wearing of yellow badges during World War II? Perhaps the logic is strained, but the comparison illustrates the dangerous intolerance of the Israelis in their methods. What is the motivating force behind these physically non-violent methods of controlling Palestinians? If the goal of an independent Jewish state, run by Jews for Jews, is recalled, then the values fall into place. The Israelis feel that the land belongs to them by biblical right; they argue that the Palestinians have no right to live there as an independent nation that would displace their state. They feel that they are securing Israel for the Israelis; Arabs must assimilate to be tolerated. The majority of Palestinians refuse to do so and the result is harassment bred from ignorance, intolerance and fear. A 1984 survey by Dahaf Research Institute found that 60 percent of Jewish teenagers thought that Israeli-Arabs were not entitled to the same rights as Jews, 47 percent that present Arab rights should be reduced, and 42 percent that democracy should be restructured to deny Arabs their civil rights. <41> This same intolerance and fear of the Palestinians is reflected in the Israeli refusal to negotiate with the PLO, the recognized organ of the Palestinian people. Such a stand illustrates the shortsightedness of the non-violent Israeli methods of operation with the Palestinians; it reflects the warped values espoused by the vocal majority of Israelis who fear negotiations with the enemy. The violent methods used by the Israelis are even more shortsighted and inappropriate for the conflict. A 22-year-old student at Hebrew University sums up the problem: "I'm afraid of what occupation has done to our society. Only bad things. Our moral standards have become almost inhuman." <42> The United Nations has condemned the methods used by the occupation forces of the West Bank and Gaza Strip. The Chairman of the Special Committee on the subject said that the status of the human rights of those in the occupied territories was "at its worst in comparison with other years," and that the "level of violence and brutality of repression is unprecedented." <43> According to the report, a plethora of military orders have effectively established a new legal system that violates the Fourth Geneva Convention. The al-Fajr survey reveals that 47.5 percent of those West Bank and Gaza Strip residents polled had experienced "political arrest;" 50.7 percent had been subjected to 'beatings, physical abuse or threats by the Israeli occupation authorities;" 55.7 percent had been exposed to "harassment or direct insults at Israel military checkpoints;" but only 6.3 percent had not had such experiences as these or with property/land confiscation, a ban on travel abroad, a curfew, the demolition of homes, deportation or fines. <44> What does this reveal about the values of the Israelis? These are attempts to control a group of people who are starved for the taste of their homeland; it is a complex problem with a myriad of factors to be weighed, not shot. The shortsightedness of the Israelis is a manifestation of the deadly combination: fear, intolerance and ignorance that comes with being occupiers for decades. The phrase "occupation corrupts, and lengthy occupation corrupts absolutely," is a variation on Lord Acton's 1887 comment on power; however, an earlier version [1770] by William Pitt, Earl of Chatham, may be more apt in the case of the Israeli occupation of the territories: "Unlimited power is apt to corrupt the minds of those who possess it." <45> The Israelis wield unlimited power in the occupied territories; they can search, seize, close, arrest and shoot at will. They refuse to negotiate with the PLO, the group endorsed by the Palestinians and the United Nations as the representative organ for the Arabs under occupation. The Geneva Declaration on Palestine, drawn up in 1983, recognizes "[t]he right of the Palestine Liberation Organization, the representative of the Palestinian people, to participate on an equal footing with other parties in all efforts, deliberations and conferences on the Middle East." <46> The Israelis are misreading the situation. In theory, the PLO uses violence as a means, not an end. However, this is not to exonerate this organization. The PLO and the unorganized Palestinians are equally guilty of misreading the motives behind the Israeli actions. In fact, if "unlimited power" is corrupting the Israeli occupation force, then a combination of limited freedom and myopic nationalism is corrupting the Palestinians. Ahmed, a young Palestinian, observed that the residents are "suffering a kind of slow death, and throwing stones is the only way they can resist." <47> The Israelis and the Palestinians do not understand the motives, the values behind the actions; consequently, each side sees the symptoms but fails to read the disease. An analogy to the Old English poem Sir Gawain and the Green Knight provides an insight into this combination of fear, ignorance and intolerance. The scene is King Arthur's Court at Christmas: a Green Knight enters the feast hall with a challenge for an exchange of "blows." Gawain misreads the challenge, seeing only the sharp axe carried by the mysterious knight. Gawain is too afraid to look with open eyes at the stranger in his home, equating a pause with cowardice. He lashes out with the axe when he could have tapped the Green Knight's shoulder or even kissed him on the cheek. Gawain dies from an ignorance of the full meaning of the challenge, reacting in fear with violence; his actions were rooted in his intolerance for the green man's disruption of the court's festivities, for his position as an outsider. Gawain should have been brave enough to listen to the Green Knight and to think rationally before swinging the axe at the stranger. Similarly, the Israelis and the Palestinians need to listen to one another, to marshal the courage to put down their guns, bombs and rocks in order to sit at the negotiating table. Notes 1 "Palestine Question," Middle East 4 (1980) (quote originally appeared in the Christian Science Monitor, June 11, 1979): 31. 2 Dov Friedlander and Calvin Goldscheider, The Population of Israel (New York: Columbia University Press, 1979) 30. 3 Walter Laquer and Barry Rubin, eds., The Israel-Arab Reader: A Documentary History of the Middle East Conflict, Basle Declaration (New York: Penguin Books) 11. 4 Bob Levin, "Victory's Children," Macleans, June 1, 1987: 23. 5 Thomas L. Friedman, "My Neighbor, My Enemy: A Report from Israel," New York Times Magazine, July 5,1987: 32. 6 Friedman, p. 32. 7 Friedlander and Goldscheider, p. 35. 8 Levin, p. 34. 9 "Mideast Peace Prospects: The Same Old Dark Picture," U.S. News and World Report, October 14, 1985: 49. 10 Levin, p. 33. 11 "Mideast Peace Prospects," p. 49. 12 Friedman, p. 31. 13 Thomas L. Friedman, "Quest for a Mideast Peace Parley Brings Disquiet to a Divided Israel," New York Times, March 11, 1987: 1, C4. 14 "Arab Reports and Analysis," Journal of Palestine Studies 16:2 (1987): 201. 15 David K. Shipler, "Arabs and Jews in Israel," New York Times Magazine , August 10, 1986: 28. 16 Shipler, p. 28. 17 Journal of Palestine Studies, p. 200. 18 Laquer and Rubin, pp. 94; 131; 366; 664. 19 Friedlander and Goldscheider, p. 30. 20 Ross Laver, "Legacy of Despair," Macleans, June 1, 1987: 26. 21 Laquer and Rubin, p. 131. 22 Laquer and Rubin, p. 366. 23 Friedlander and Goldscheider, p. 30. 24 Laquer and Rubin, p. 664. 25 Yehuda Lukacs, ed., Documents on the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict. 1967-1983 (Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1984). 26 Journal of Palestine Studies, p. 202. 27 Friedman, p. 30. 28 Journal of Palestine Studies, p. 202. 29 Friedman, p. 18. 30 Laver, p. 24. 31 Friedman, p. 32. 32 Laver, p. 27. 33 Laver, p. 27. 34 Laver, p. 28. 35 Journal of Palestine Studies, p. 202. 36 Laver, p. 27. 37 Laver, p. 26. 38 Laver, p. 27. 39 Friedman, p. 35. 40 Friedman, p. 35. 41 Shipler, p. 25. 42 Levin, p. 30. 43 "Israeli Practices in Occupied Territories, Dead Sea Cana, New Refugees," United Nations Chronicle 12 (1983): 54. 44 Journal of Palestine Studies, p. 202. 45 John Bartlett, Familiar Quotations (Boston: Little, Brown and Co., 1955) 335a, 334b. 46 "Perspective: International Conference on the Question of Palestine," United Nations Chronicle 10 (November 1983): 49. 47 Laver, p. 28. Return to 1987-8 Table of Contents http://www.loyno.edu/~history/journal/1987-8/milone.htm
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| | Tuesday, February 20, 2001 - 11:21 am Asad I believe that quote comes from Farakhan - who is not a Muslim. He claims Elijah Mohamnmed was a prophet. Elijah Mohammed was a very successful philanderer and womanizer. Now we have not actually talked about what the Israelis should do to solve the problem. Israel needs to do the following if it wants to be able to chill a little and stop living under siege: a. Give the Palestinians a state that includes all of the West Bank and all of the Gaza strip with a capital in East Jerusalum. b. Provide economic compensation to all Palestinians who had land confiscated. c. Give up the disputed Chinese farm area which isn't critical to their security. d. Demilitarize the Golan heights with a UN peacekeeping force capable of ENFORCING the demilitarized status of the Golan. The Golan returns to Syrian control. The Palestinians and the Israelis need to establish a joint reconcilliation commission on the model of South Africa so that everyone with grievances has an outlet to address them. Unfortunately for all involved the Israelis aren't any brighter than the Palestinians. It's sort of like that movie, Dumb and Dumber. . You need a better user name. You are right on the money. This was a good write up.
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| | Tuesday, February 20, 2001 - 12:09 pm "Asad I believe that quote comes from Farakhan" you believe wrong. the quote didn't come from frakhan. it comes from malcom. ;-) http://www.cmgww.com/historic/malcolm/ "who is not a Muslim." only Allah knows who is a muslim and who is not. ;-) "He claims Elijah Mohamnmed was a prophet." if he siad that, he is wrong, but malcom denied elijah being a prophet. ;-) "Elijah Mohammed was a very successful philanderer and womanizer." malcom was the opposite. ;-) "Now we have not actually talked about what the Israelis should do to solve the problem." i don't think they will do what you think they should do. no one is stopping them to do that and if they would do these things, they would have done it already------or they should not have created the problem to begin with, right? ;-) "Israel needs to do the following if it wants to be able to chill a little and stop living under siege" yes, violence will only beget violence, right? ;-)
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| | Tuesday, February 20, 2001 - 01:16 pm ANON I think your understanding of the Analogy concept needs some polishing up. I said that sympthay does not equate to fighting, so I fail to to understand your point. The whole gist of the discussion was the difference between your religious-based sentimental sympathy which is tribalistic and therefore inherently unfair and potentially destructive, and the principled stance of those who believe in, and fight for the universal human values of justice and freedom. And this is where my argument with MM lies. He tends to lose the bigger picture and concenterates on the apparent mendacities of the current events. I can't blame him, for he is, like the rest of us, the product of his culture. You keep on accusing me of sympathising with the Jews, and I will know I did not lose my objectivity, a commodity which is in short supply amongst those inebriated with religious fervour. I am disappointed by your failure to censor this nameless irritant who is taken to jamming the forums with this quoted nonsense. Where is your Fatwa teeth ANON? If the GOB was around he would have silenced the idiot long ago with a cutting, hadith-powered comment. He would say something like "brother, Abu qiddah once said those who bore people so as they are forced to refrain from conducting meaningful and interesting debate will not sit near the Prophet on the Day of the Qiyaamah" The simpleton will then be forced to retort sheepishly " Brother FG, Oh, the Wise One, Yaa Abul-hikam, I did not know this..." And then, Idea will say, " FG, Jazaa' aka llahu Khairan brother, you are so knowledgable etc.." Common, ever the keen student, will become all bends and curtsies at the Master's yet another demonstration of theological wizadry! By the time TLG joins in the guru worship-fest, I will be reaching for the sick bucket, but of course the Forum idiot will be reduced to a whimpering wreck in the corner of the half-built local mosque! And what do you do? Nothing! You can't even manage to issue a tiny-weeny little Fatwa! You continue behaving like that ANON and when your holy grail of the Islamic State eventually comes to fruition, you will end up the minister of Islamic Hygiene with especial over the halalness of washing-up liquids! You have been warned!
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| | Tuesday, February 20, 2001 - 02:14 pm "ANON I think your understanding of the Analogy concept needs some polishing up. I said that sympthay does not equate to fighting, so I fail to to understand your point." no, you said: "Surely there is a difference between respecting achievement and hard-work and actively "fighting" for a side for the flimsiest of reasons?" then, i asked you----who is "actively fighting" for the palestinian people when feeling sypathy for them? i said "i never heard somalis who are actively "fighting" in Palestine. i didn't know feeling sympathy towards the palestinians mean "fighting" for them! if feeling sympathy toward palestinians means fighting for them, then respecting the jews means fighting for the jews, right? ;-)" that is the analogy you are missing, galool. ;-) "The whole gist of the discussion was the difference between your religious-based sentimental sympathy which is tribalistic" the picture you are pretending to be missing is your hypocrisy. if feeling sympathy for the palestinian people is tribalistic, then isn't feeling respect for the jews tribalistic? ;-) "and therefore inherently unfair and potentially destructive, and the principled stance of those who believe in, and fight for the universal human values of justice and freedom." if it is unfair and injustice to feel sympathy for the palestiniain people, it is unfair and injustice to feel respect for the jews, right? ;-) "And this is where my argument with MM lies. He tends to lose the bigger picture and concenterates on the apparent mendacities of the current events." he will disagree with you on that point. ;-) "I can't blame him, for he is, like the rest of us, the product of his culture." lol-------like the rest of us, including you, galool, right? ;-) "You keep on accusing me of sympathising with the Jews" i''m accusing you of being a hypocrite. what i'm saying is that if it is unfair and injustice to feel sympathy for the palestiniain people, it is unfair and injustice to feel *respect* for the jews, right? ;-) "and I will know I did not lose my objectivity, a commodity which is in short supply amongst those inebriated with religious fervour." it is known by now that you can't help but to loose objectivity like an intoxicated iconoclast. most unthinking people are known to be attackers of established beliefs and you've proven that with no success. ;-) "I am disappointed by your failure to censor this nameless irritant who is taken to jamming the forums with this quoted nonsense." i'm no dictator and unlike you, i don't order people and tell them what they can write or can't write on here. ;-) "Where is your Fatwa teeth ANON?" lol----fatwa teeth. ;-) "If the GOB was around he would have silenced the idiot long ago with a cutting, hadith-powered comment." lol-----the idiot. ;-) let me ask you this galool: is it the love you have for the jews that making you censor people because you can't stand people writing the truth about the jews? ;-) "And what do you do? Nothing! You can't even manage to issue a tiny-weeny little Fatwa!" lol-----a tiny-weeny little fatwa? ;-) "You continue behaving like that ANON and when your holy grail of the Islamic State eventually comes to fruition, you will end up the minister of Islamic Hygiene with especial over the halalness of washing-up liquids!" i told you that you can't help but to loose objectivity like an intoxicated iconoclast. most unthinking people are known to be attackers of established beliefs and you've proven that with no success. you think this kind of vomiting coming from you will score a point on me or the religion. ;-) "You have been warned!" are you a dictator warning people? ;-)
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| | Wednesday, February 21, 2001 - 12:26 pm Has anyoned seen Common lately?? Where is he? He was a valuable member of the forums.
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