site-wide search

SomaliNet Forums: Archives

This section is online for reference only. No new content will be added. no deletion either...

Go to Current Forums ...with millions of posts

Help stop the genocide in Iraq.

SomaliNet Forum (Archive): Islam (Religion): Archive (Before Mar. 13, 2001): Help stop the genocide in Iraq.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  

TLG

Friday, February 23, 2001 - 06:41 pm
Asalaamu alaikum all,
A friend asked me to post this up. Please come out and support the rally if you live in the greater Toronto area and if you have the time. I'm sure a lot of your will wonder how effective such efforts are but I guess we have nothing to lose at the end of the day if we try and give whatever support we can. This is an effort to renew media coverage on the issue since the events there have been reduced to a "footnote" in the news these days. We kinda sorta haft use their tactics at times.

Salaam.

---------

Can't 5,000 people come out to this rally? One for
every Iraqi child killed by the US this month.

The demonstration, march and rally take place on:

Saturday, February 24, at 1:30 PM
Location: US Consulate on University Avenue
(South of St. Patrick Subway Station)
Time: 1:30 PM
Main Sponsors: Muslim Students Association, Amnesty International,
Inter-Church Action, Palestine House, Canadian Arab Federation, and the UofT NDP Club.
Contact: Mona Ahmad at leba79@yahoo.com or
info@nosanctions.org


If you live outside the Greater Toronto Area, please pass on this information to your friends in Toronto, implore them to get off their
sorry..... and for once do the right thing. For those of you who call Toronto's suburbs your homes; the Markham and Mississauga types,please
sacrifice just one Saturday this month and come out to show your commitment to
the cause of human rights, justice and equity. Surely afew hours of
solidarity with the strangulated people of Iraq will not be too much to ask for.

Help stop the genocide in Iraq. Sacrifice a Saturday to show solidarity
with Iraq. Come to the rally, stay for the march.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  

MAD MAC

Saturday, February 24, 2001 - 01:43 pm
TLG
I'll E-Mail your friend Mona (nice name) but if you want such a rally to have resonance it needs to rpotest two things simultaneously:

a. The sanctions against Iraq
and
b. The leadership of Saddam Hussein in Iraq.

Any protests must recognize the legitimate concern of other countries to Husseins ceaseless attempts to re-arm and threaten his neighbors. At the end of the day, it is critical for Muslims to recognize that the ultimate victims of Husseins leadership are other Muslims, both at home and abroad, and that he must be replaced by someone not making unreasonable irredentist claims or trying to develop weapons of mass destruction that would be used to destabilize a region already unstable enough.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  

TLG

Sunday, February 25, 2001 - 11:40 am
MadMac, Thanks for your advice. You know what your problem is? you don't wanna step outside of your "box" and look at things from a different angle. Without getting into the politics of the region(and I have issues with your stance on development of weapons of mass destruction by Hussein which in my not so humble opinion is a pretext for other things), I think what u need to realize is that we can't slap sanctions and take military action against countries whose dictators misbehave resulting in suffering, starvation, and death all in the name of teaching the tyrant a lesson, while we protect Israel and friendly arab dictators even when they violate human rights. While I agree with u that the "ultimate victims of Hussein's leadership are Musliims", I dont' understand how u guys are helping the situation by the placement of sanctions that have left that nation in total dispair and destruction. I think u should stop being a US soldeir for a day and put yourself in the shoes of an average Iraqi. Have you ever heard your country man Denise Haliday speak on this topic?
It is amusing how people's wellbeing or safety is contingent upon the behaviour of the dictator we are trying to "save" them from, even when those people have no control over how the dictator behaves!

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  

Anonymous

Sunday, February 25, 2001 - 12:29 pm
salam,

is such a rally premissible in the islam, i mean will it actually acheive something. what do the scholars of this century say about it, e.g. sheikh al-bani, binu baz, binu uthaymeem,etc?

don't get me wrong i am hurting seeing our brothers and sisters getting butched by the kufr.

wasalam.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  

diriye

Monday, February 26, 2001 - 08:12 am
Think about Somalia instead of Iraq idiots, and help the dying somalis

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  

Iraqi

Monday, February 26, 2001 - 03:53 pm
Diriye

How do u know they are not Iraqis appealing to Somali help?

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  

MAD MAC

Tuesday, February 27, 2001 - 12:47 am
TLG
I can see I have not adequately stated my position on the whole issue.

Let me answer first your position on other dictators in the region. Have you ever heard the phrase "he might be a son of a bitch, but he's our son of a bitch." The truth is that while the US prefers to work with democracies, it will put it's own interest first - just like every other state in the world. Please don't blather on about hypcracy - hypocracy is the normal state of affairs in this world which is anarchic. States aren't people and can not be judged by the same standards.

Now, as for MAD MACs position on Iraq, I think the US should turn the entire problem over to the leaders of Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Syria, Jordan and Iran. Let this collection of states, which are directly threatened by this goof ball, deal with the problem and lead the internaitonal charge. The US will offer support, but they take the political lead. If they want to lift sanctions, lift them. Whatever the military fall-out is from Husseins adventures it's these states who will suffer most. As for the Kurds and the Shi'ites, I feel bad for them, but not bad enough to fight another Gulf War. The Kurds need to accept that they are not a nation state and aren't likely to become one. The Shi'tes need to move to Iran or learn to live amongst a Sunni majority.

As for the Israeli-Palestinian problem. I think the US should cut aid to both parties and tell them that if and when Palestine is an established state recognized by Israel, and when this Palestinian State recognizes the State of Israel, we will turn the fawcet back on. Until then, you're on your own amigos. Face it, we don't have a dog in this fight. If individual Jews or Muslims want to donate funds to "their cause" have at it. They will quickly get donor fatigue. It is their problem and up to them to solve. US involvement is simply leaving the US vulnerable to criticism by associating with these idiots. We need to ensure our oil supplies none of which eminate from Israel or the West Bank. If they want to go on killing each other - have at it. We can even sell them weapons - I mean we make the best - and make money off the whole thing.

Our problem is we are consistently getting involved in places where we have no business. I'm not an isolationist, but it's getting completely out of hand. We need to focus our efforts solely on where we have a genuine economic interest or in places where our help in genuinely desired and appreciated.

Diriye
While I can appreciate the sentiment, sympathy for Iraqis (or anyone else) in no way dilutes sympathy for Somalis who are suffering.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  

.

Tuesday, February 27, 2001 - 09:26 am
The hypocracy of the state is this: The economic sanctions, which are punishing the poor and the children of Iraq for the crimes of their leaders, should also be ended, as should those against Cuba also. I am in favor of eliminating weapons of mass destruction but in all countries by a legitimate world authority that is democratically elected by the the people of the world. Such a world democracy could send nonviolent and neutral officers to inspect and make sure all weapons of mass destruction are removed. Those individuals who refuse to cooperate with such inspections should be arrested and brought to trial by a world court of law. If they resist with violence, then whatever force is necessary to bring those individuals to justice may be used by those designated by a democratic world authority. In this way all of the weapons of mass destruction could be removed from every nation and be replaced by democratic world law administered by a federal system that recognizes and protects democracy and human rights in every country. The United States Government, which has not even fulfilled its treaty obligation to the United Nations by paying its large debt of one billion dollars or more to that organization (because the Republican Congress refuses to appropriate the money), has no right to use military force against Iraq unilaterally or even if supported by a few allies such the United Kingdom and France. Even the United Nations, whose executive authority is controlled by the five original nuclear nations who "won" the second world war, is not democratic enough to justify appointing the military of the United States the policeman of the world. United States is violating the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty. The failure of the United States and the other nuclear powers to agree to set aside time to discuss and negotiate complete nuclear disarmament at the second session of the Preparatory Committee for the NPT Review Conference in 2000 recently demonstrates that these nations are still in direct violation of Article 6 of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty done at Washington, London, and Moscow July 1, 1968, ratified by the U.S. Senate and entered into force on March 5, 1970 which reads: "Article VI. Each of the Parties to the Treaty undertakes to pursue negotiations in good faith on effective measures relating to cessation of the nuclear arms race at an early date and to nuclear disarmament, and on a treaty on general and complete disarmament under strict and effective international control." Certainly it is a dangerous precedent, a bad example, and a betrayal of the Gandhi's principles of nonviolence for India to test and develop nuclear weapons. For U.S. to condemn others and invoke sanctions against nations is the most blatant hypocrisy, and U. S. failure to consider nuclear disarmament is dangerous to the future of civilization.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  

TLG

Tuesday, February 27, 2001 - 02:24 pm
Salaam ya'll,

Anonymous, to be honest with u, I have no idea what the scholars say about this topic. Why don't u post their opinion on the issue so that we can all benefit from it? If u have access to such material that is.

Diriye, what makes u think we are not thinking of Somalia? Who says our attempt to help Muslims should be limited to specific areas? I think we should all do what we can for all people in need.

MM, the person who posted the last thing heralds my view. So I won't bore you with my input. The only thing I would add is that you are right. You guys decided to place the burden of policing the world on your shoulders and you are really poor at the task.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  

MAD MAC

Tuesday, February 27, 2001 - 09:57 pm
Guy with funny User-name

And I quote: "Hypcocracy is the cornerstone of civilization and should be cherished."

First let's start with your world government theme. I am from the school of Real-politik. It ain't gonna happen. The inclination of a world government would not only be to regulate world weapons development but also redistribute wealth. Anyone who knows anything about economics knows this would lead to a world where some people are poor to a world where everyone is.

As for the legitimacy of the UN - well you are quite correct there. The US is the 800 pound gorilla, and the 800 pouond gorilla gets to do what it wants. Morality plays only a token role in international affairs of state. If this is confusing or disturbing to you I invite you back to the first paragraph.

The fundamental problem with nuclear disarmament is enforcement. I mean, if everyone disarmed and then the Chinese said "April fools" what do you do. They have a big army and now they have nuclear weapons. They kind of have the drop on you.

TLG
While I will admit we aren't very good at this world policeman thing, neither is anyone else. Personally I think there should be no world policeman and if we insist on having one let the Chinese do it - there's a lot of them. A few less (killed policing the world) won't be missed.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  

Anonymous

Tuesday, February 27, 2001 - 10:53 pm
States aren't people and can not be judged by the same standards VS The US is the 800 pound gorilla, and the 800 pouond gorilla gets to do what it wants. Morality plays only a token role in international affairs of state.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  

MAD MAC

Monday, March 19, 2001 - 04:40 am
Anonymous
Were you going to finish this thing????

Feel like posting? Pleaase click here for the list of current forums.