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     | Monday, March 12, 2001 - 12:21 pm Salama... The hypocrites had been exposed. Have a readable mind, and judge it yourself. _________________ Published Monday March 12, 2001, by iviews.com By Abdul-Haqq A journalist friend asked this writer’s opinion over the issue of the Taliban destroying the Buddhist idols. The response came naturally that God forbid if Prophet Ibrahim (peace and blessings be upon him) had not destroyed all the idols in the Kaaba, perhaps thinking that he had set the example, then his followers in our age might have taken upon them the completion of this task. Humanity has been given one Message, the message of monotheism, and over the ages, this message was lost and garbled. The Maker of the original message dispatched His messenger to remind and reestablish the Message, voiding the distortion that had crept in uninvited. The Second Commandment is "You shall not make for yourself an idol." That commandment is reinforced in Deuteronomy 4:16: "Do not act corruptly by making an idol for yourselves." Unlike, Judaism and Islam, Christianity has tended to ignore the Second Commandment. This is why Christian art is full of religious painting and sculpture, and Judaic and Islamic art is not.Instead of reminding the world that both the Torah and the Bible disallow the crafting of idols, Dr. Muzammil H. Siddiqi, president of the Islamic Society of North America, however, declared that the "decision is un-Islamic," and the destruction of idols "will give a very bad name to Islam and will create hate against their people among the nations of the world." His other argument is that "past generations and governments of Afghanistan did not destroy these images and yet Islam flourished in Afghanistan. In many other countries where Muslims are a majority, and have ruled those lands for centuries, they did not destroy the religious symbols of other people. Such images and symbols of the past still exist in almost all Muslim countries." Ironically, not just Afghanistan and not only past governments, in fact, many Muslim countries are embracing idolatry at full steam. Perhaps, Ataturk’s Turkey is the modern Muslim world’s worst offender, and of course we have Saddam sprinkling his graven likeness everywhere there is public space. Not just modern dictators, but also past Muslim rulers, such as the Mughal kings in India, innovated idolatry with magnificentmausoleums, aiming to be remembered in death. Absolute rulers who cannot install their likenesses in stone are erecting other symbols of self-glory, such as airports and every conceivable public structure named in their honor. Citing the Sunnah Scholars and everyone with an opinion on both sides of the argument in the Taliban’s idol-smashing issue is vying each other in their citing of the Sunnah.The anti-smashing lobby argues that Prophet Muhammad (may Allah's peace and blessings be upon him) only destroyed the idols in the Ka’aba only after he had established the religion. The question is whether he stopped after disposing the Ka’aba idols. There are several examples in the Seerah that show that the dismantling of idols went beyond the confines of the holy precincts. On the 8th of Ramadan, Khalid ibn al-Waleed was sent to Nakhlah with orders to destroy the goddess al-'Uzza that was being worshiped by the Bani Quraish and Bani Kinana. Later in the same month, the Prophet dispatched 'Amr bin al-'As to destroy the idol Suwa' which was being worshiped by Hudhail. In addition, Sa'd ibn Zaid al-Ashhali was sent to al-Mashallai to destroy the idol, Manat, worshiped by Bani al-Aws and Bani al-Khazraj. Certainly, these examples support the view that the destruction of idols extends beyond the walls of the Ka’abah. The Afghan objective focuses on the statues at Bamiyan that measure 170 feet and 120 feet high and were carved in the 3rd and 5th centuries and is believed to be the world’s tallest standing Buddha.The argument that the idols of a misguided people are 'national treasures' of a land cleansed of idolatry does not hold. If the Prophet who assiduously preached tolerance considered it such, he would have simply taught his people such and ordered the idols moved into storage. Instead, he specifically ordered their obliteration. Dr. Siddiqui argues: "They are very useful for Afghans and others to know about Afghanistan's past history and its transformation into a Muslim community that recognized Tawhid andworshiped only one God." But the Prophet did not preserve the idols of the Jahilyah for such educational purposes. The mention in the books that upon the Tawhid, the idols were reformulated into stone is education enough. Similarly, when the order for the banning of alcoholic drinks was received, the Prophet did not dissuade the Muslims from smashing the drinking utensils and preserve them as educational tools. Non-utilitarian Objects ______________________ Afghanistan was a center of Buddhist learning and pilgrimage. Today, however, the nation is Muslim and no one needs these statues, as idols do not belong to a Muslim house. Even if one may argue that Buddha may have been a prophet, the issue arises: are we allowed to cast graven images of prophets? If a community were to leave Christianity, does it have any use for the imaginary likenesses of Jesus and should that community preserve such a heresy? The Taliban had the option to block them from public view and even sell them, but the correctly declared that selling what is unlawful is not the work of a Muslim state.But the Taliban's decision to destroy the statues could have been at another time. The most important thing for them to focus their attention on is to settle their differences with the opposition and end the civil war. Killing fellow Muslims is a far more serious crime than letting idols stand unscathed. Multiple Standards _________________ The United Nations, and many countries continue to condemn the Afghan actions. Even the government of India, whose supporters destroyed the historic Babri mosque, has been on the forefront of international criticism. Furthermore, it is hypocritical for the UN and others to admonish to the Taliban, as they have for years, turned a blind eye to the bulldozing of olive groves in occupied Palestine, where many of the trees gave shade to the prophets as they stood and preached, including Prophet Jesus (may peace and blessings be upon him). These olive groves are far more sacred than any Buddha. Not only are they sacred but they also continue to provide sustenance to many. The Muslim minority reaction to the Taliban move is not much different than the reaction of Muslim countries. The Islamic Republic of Iran that triumphantly pulverized the statues of the Shah joined the chorus of criticism. Perhaps Iran did not want to miss out on having a go at the Taliban, their political nemesis. The condemnation of the Taliban far exceeds than the criticism leveled against Tel Aviv for its continued rape of Palestine and its people. And the United States, that is forever crying over its Vietnam War dead or its handful of dead in the gulf War, has failed to move even a finger of gratitude toward the Afghanis who fought the hot phase of the Cold War and won it for humanity. Indeed, the Taliban by the destruction of the Buddha idols has sent a powerful message to the world that it needs to smash hypocrisy just as the idols were smashed. Before, asking others to civilize themselves, those who demand civility need to become civilized. Those who support the occupation and rape of Palestine and Kashmir have no right to lecture anyone, leave alone the Taliban. __________________ Abdul-Haqq is a writer on international affairs. ___________________ I'd said again and again that the Taliban never, in your wildest dreams, tries to please a man. Whatsoever. In howsoever. And I must remove my hat for them. __________________ Nabadeey!!
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| | Monday, March 12, 2001 - 12:39 pm Outcry as Buddhas are destroyed 3/12/2001 (BBC) :: India and Pakistan have led global condemnation of the Taleban''s destruction of two ancient statues of the Buddha in Afghanistan, which was confirmed on Monday. Indian Prime Minister Atal Behari Vajpayee described the demolition of the Buddhas in central Bamiyan province as "an act of barbarism". Pakistan''s Foreign Minister Abdul Sattar, who has accused the international community of doing too little, said it was "a tragic disaster". In Bangladesh, a rally was held in the capital, Dhaka, to protest against the destruction, as Muslim nations from Malaysia to the Middle East queued up to stress the attacks on the statues had nothing to do with Islam. Earlier Unesco Director-general Koichiro Matsuura said in a statement that the demolition of the relics was complete. "I was distressed to learn from my special envoy, Pierre LaFrance, that the destruction of the Bamiyan Buddhas has been confirmed," he said. Mr LaFrance has visited Afghanistan twice in an attempt to save the artefacts, but to no avail. The Taleban Foreign Minister Wakil Ahmad Mutawakil, in Islamabad to meet with UN Secretary General, Kofi Annan, confirmed that the two giant statues had indeed been destroyed, along with all moveable artefacts. "We do admit all these statues were the cultural heritage of Afghanistan, but we will not leave the part which is contrary to our belief." Mr Mutawakil said. Explosives Even a delegation of senior Muslim scholars from the 55-nation Organisation of Islamic Conference (OIC) had been unable to dent the Taleban''s resolve to annihilate the country''s pre-Islamic heritage. Journalists are barred from the region, but international aid workers have confirmed that the militia used explosives to bring down the soaring statues. "The destruction work is not as easy as people would think," Taleban Information Minister Qudratullah Jamal told Reuters. The statues are now said to lie in ruins at the foot of the cliff where they have stood since the second and fifth century. Intolerance Standing at 51 and 36 metres high, the statues were once a symbol of the religious tolerance that pervaded the region but today Bamiyan is a war zone. Islamic leaders around the world have stressed that the Taleban''s iconoclasm has no justification in Islam. Only Sudan and Saudi Arabia, one of only three countries to recognise the Taleban as the legitimate government of Afghanistan, have remained quiet. Kofi Annan, in Pakistan on a tour of the region, described the Taleban''s acts as a "disservice" to themselves and to Islam. Some analysts believe the demolition of the statues may have come in retaliation for UN sanctions imposed for the Taleban''s refusal to hand over Saudi dissident Osama bin Laden. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Afghan refugees ''not forgotten'' 3/12/2001 (BBC) :: UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan has told Afghan refugees in Pakistan that the world has not forgotten their plight. I want to let you know that you are not without friends UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan Mr Annan was speaking to a gathering of refugees at the huge Shamshatu camp in Peshawar in north-west Pakistan, which houses tens of thousands of refugees who have fled Afghanistan''s two decades of war, as well the more recent drought. More than a million Afghans live in refugee camps in Pakistan and there has been a huge influx since last September. The Pakistani Government wants them to return home. ''Determined'' to help Mr Annan said that the UN was doing its best to get as much assistance to the refugees as possible - both in Pakistan and in Afghanistan itself. Kofi Annan: Discussed issue with Pakistani leaders "I heard the message your elders gave us and I want to let you know that you are not without friends," Mr Annan said. He added that the international community was "determined" to help them, and said that his presence at the camp showed that they were not forgotten. One report from the camp said that after Mr Annan''s motorcade began to move, some stones were thrown by protesting refugees. Pakistani police had to intervene to stop them. The United Nations is particularly concerned about 80,000 Afghans living in a makeshift camp at Jalozai near the border town of Peshawar. The refugees are living under thin plastic sheeting with no sanitation, and the Pakistani authorities have stopped most aid from reaching them in the hope of forcing them to return to their homes. The secretary general wants to visit Jalozai to see conditions for himself, although it is not clear whether the Pakistani authorities have agreed. Possible assistance Mr Annan raised the subject of the refugees during a meeting with Pakistan''s military leader, General Pervez Musharraf, on Sunday. Mr Annan said they had agreed it might be necessary to move the refugees at Jalozai to another site. General Musharraf called for the United Nations to provide more assistance inside Afghanistan to stop the refugees from leaving. The Pakistani authorities, who see the Afghans as a drain on the economy, have refused to allow new arrivals into the country. After his visit, Mr Annan flew on to Nepal, where officials are expected to offer additional soldiers for UN peacekeeping forces. His trip has been overshadowed by Afghanistan''s ruling Taleban''s decision to destroy priceless pre-Islamic artefacts including two massive statues of the Buddha. Mr Annan described the Taleban''s acts as a "disservice" to themselves and to Islam. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- UN chief meets Afghan refugees 3/12/2001 (BBC) :: The United Nations Secretary General, Kofi Annan, has told Afghan refugees in Pakistan that the world has not forgotten them. Mr Annan, speaking during a visit to a camp in northern Pakistan, said the international community was determined to help the refugees; the Afghans were not without friends. He told them the UN was trying to get as much assistance to them as possible. Hundreds of thousands of Afghans have been living in Pakistan and Iran after fleeing the effects of war and drought in their homeland. The UN estimates that about a million people inside Afghanistan itself could face severe food shortages this year -- and has been appealing for international assistance. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- UN Chief Tours Afghan Refugee Camps SHAMSHATOO, Pakistan , 3/12/2001 (AP Wire) :: U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan toured a squalid camp sheltering tens of thousands of Afghan refugees Monday, trying to convince the world to help in Afghanistan''s humanitarian crisis despite anger over the Taliban''s destruction of historic statues. Pakistani police joined hands to form a human barrier to hold back crowds of refugees trying to get a glimpse of the U.N. chief as he and his wife visited a school for girls in Shamshatoo camp in northwest Pakistan. ``My presence here should confirm to you that the international community has not forgotten you and you do have friends,'''' Annan told refugees. He added to reporters, ``We have made concrete proposals to raise money.'''' About 70,000 refugees have been living in dirty plastic tents and ramshackle wooden shacks at the camp since early January, when they fled here from war and devastating drought in their homeland. Some 80,000 more refugees live in even more dire conditions at Jalozai Camo, a dust-choked patch of land with open sewers and no drinking water, where there are almost daily deaths from disease among children and the elderly. Annan was to fly over the camp in his helicopter later after Pakistan called off his planned tour there for security reasons. Annan said he is seeking to raise money to help Afghans displaced within their own country and those in Pakistan. But he must overcome donor nations'' anger at the Taliban''s destruction of all statues in the country — particularly its rich heritage of ancient Buddhist statues. On Sunday, Annan was notified by the Taliban''s foreign minister that the most prominent of the statues, two monumental Buddhas hewn out of a cliff face in the third and fifth centuries had been completely demolished. ``I don''t think it is going to make it easier to help the Afghans,'''' Annan said Sunday in Islamabad, the Pakistani capital. But the world has to realize that ordinary Afghans ``didn''t do anything to destroy the Buddhas,'''' he said. An aid worker said witnesses had corroborated that the 170- and 120-foot statues at Bamiyan, 75 miles west of the Afghan capital Kabul, had been reduced to rubble at the foot of the mountain by explosives in an operation overseen by the Taliban defense minister. The hard-line Islamic militia ordered the demolition to purge Afghanistan of what they called idolatrous images, ignoring pleas from around the world, including Muslim nations. That has intensified the country''s isolation at a time when its humanitarian crisis is worsening. In Afghanistan, the World Food Program warns that as many as 1 million people could face starvation. An estimated 80,000 people are living in U.N.-supported camps in Afghanistan''s western Herat and another 10,000 people are stranded on the northern border with Tajikistan. In the northern city of Mazar-e-Sharif, another 150,000 more Afghans are living in makeshift shelters in search of food and water, say U.N. officials, who warn of a catastrophe if more help is not forthcoming. ``We are trying to convey the message that things are getting worse, that it is not the same as last year,'''' said Erick de Mul, the U.N coordinator for humanitarian aid to Afghanistan. While a relentless civil war has shattered Afghanistan''s economy, a devastating drought that threatens to worsen this year has broken the backs of farmers, destroyed entire herds and wiped out crops, he said. For the some 200,000 Afghanis who have fled into neighboring Pakistan since September, prospects are no better in the camps near the border. Conditions are worsening each day, said Yusuf Hassan, U.N. High Commissioner for Refugees spokesman in Pakistan. ``I shudder to think what it will be like'''' in the next months, when summer temperatures begin their climb to 100 degrees, he said. At Shamshatoo, thousands of Afghans squatted on the camp''s hillsides and watched as Annan''s motorcade of four-wheel-drive vehicles passed. At the girls'' school, Annan knelt on a plastic mat and listened as the children recited verses from the Muslim holy book, the Koran. Annan watched as the World Food Program handed out bags of flour to refugees clutching small white identification cards they had received from relief workers. The line of people waiting for handouts reached about 300 yards. Pakistan has closed its borders to refugees from neighboring Afghanistan — though tens of thousands have slipped through using mountain paths. Islamabad fears it will be forced to support the new waves of refugees without U.N. help at a time when it is trying to repair its own ailing economy. The country already hosts 1.2 million Afghans in camps set up after the 1979 invasion of Afghanistan by the former Soviet Union, and it no longer gets U.N. assistance for those refugees. It receives emergency aid for the new influx, but Pakistani officials fear that money will dry up. ``We are not only overstretched. We are exhausted,'''' said Pakistan''s Foreign Minister Abdul Sattar, who accompanied Annan on his tour of Shamshatoo. ``We just do not have the means.'''' The United Nations has also imposed sanctions on the Taliban for refusing to surrender Saudi dissident Osama bin Laden, wanted in the United States for the deadly bombing of U.S. embassies in Africa. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bamiyan statues being destroyed, Taliban tells Annan Reported by: Kyodo ISLAMABAD, 3/12/2001 :: Taliban Foreign Minister Wakeel Ahmad Mutwakkal has said that all moveable statues in Afghanistan have been destroyed and the destruction of two giant statues of the Buddha has begun, U.N. Secretary General Kofi Annan told reporters Sunday. Speaking at a press conference in Pakistan, Annan said he told Mutwakkal that ''''you have to respect what is sacred to others,'''' and the destruction was a lamentable act and a disservice to the Taliban itself and to Islam. Asked if the destruction of the statues would affect the response by donors to his appeal for more funds for humanitarian assistance in Afghanistan, Annan said it would not help. But no country has so far said it will not provide such funds if the statues are destroyed, he said. Annan said such funds are meant for people who have nothing to do with the destruction of the statues. ''''I think a hungry child is a hungry child and we should do everything to help him,'''' he remarked. After his meeting with Annan, Mutwakkal told a press conference that work had started on the destruction of the two Buddha statues in Bamiyan, northwest of Kabul, but he did not know the current status of the work. ''''I do not think they have been completely destroyed because they are tough ones,'''' he said, pointing out that in the days of former Afghan King Zahir Shah, cement and iron had been used to strengthen them. Mutwakkal said there was no possibility of moving the statues abroad or selling them. ''''Surely we will destroy them completely,'''' he said. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Annan appeals for aid for Afghanistan''s starving Reported by: Ananova 3/12/2001 :: Kofi Annan has visited refugee camps in Pakistan as thousands shelter from the harsh winter weather. Tens of thousands of Afghans have plastic bags as their only shelter . Children and the elderly people are dying every day of disease in Jalozai Camp. UN Secretary-General Annan stopped first at the Shamshatoo camp, where about 70,000 refugees have been settled by the United Nations since early January. Conditions for the many refugees are worsening each day, said Yusuf Hassan, UN High Commissioner for Refugees spokesman in Pakistan. "I shudder to think what it will be like," he said. The influx began in September as Afghanistan''s protracted civil war and a devastating drought drove hundreds of thousands of people from their homes. Inside Afghanistan, the situation is also grim, with the World Food Programme warning that as many as one million people could face starvation.
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| | Wednesday, March 14, 2001 - 04:58 am MWMA Dude, nobody cares about the Afghanis. They've gone to the well once too often. Besides, they enjoy killing each other so much, there's no reason for anyone else to do it for them and not much point in trying to stop them. The violence and killing (and associated hunger) go on because they want it to, or they don't want peace enough to stop it. As for hypocracy (and Muslims just LOVE to dwell on huypocracy) I quote: "Hypocracy is the cornerstone of civilization and should be cherished." All you motherfuckers sit back and love to bash the West and bash this and bash that, as if any of you were any better. Look at your own country. It's a disaster area. And what are you doing about it? Are you putting your nuts on the line and going back to fix things up and get the place on the straight and narrow??? Nooooooo. You're sitting safely ensconced in the West which gave you sanctuary all the while decrying how wicked it is: Now that's hypocracy!!!!! If you care so much about the Afghanis then why the hell aren't you there doing something about it??? Take your cash, get on a plane, and go help some folks out. Go join the Taliban if you think they're so great. Or are you too materialistic to actually do anything other than decry the materialism of the "west"?
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| | Wednesday, March 14, 2001 - 01:18 pm Mad, relax moron. If you have a difference of Opinion with what is posted, say it in a Scholarly manner.
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| | Thursday, March 15, 2001 - 03:42 pm lol@tlg. first time I see you insulting someone. Yeah, madcow can get to anyone sometimes.
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| | Thursday, March 15, 2001 - 11:43 pm TLG Moron??? Moi??? I might be crude, rude and socially unacceptable, but I take umbrage with the description of moron!!!! You'll notice BTW, that the hypocrits didn't have a response to my last post - and they deserved it!!! I'll admit it's annoying to have all these dues here talking smack - Allah this and Allah that and Islam this and Islam that but when it comes to DOING anything, well that's a different story. They all talk like they're the only ones who will "be saved" but none of them want to take a risk and go do anything about the endless misery they speak of. I'm pretty sure that meets the definition of hypocracy - what do you think???
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| | Friday, March 16, 2001 - 02:22 am TLG Was that you? I laughed so much I almost fell-off my chair. C'mon girl get it out of your system! use the F word, the C word and all the other words you feel like using. Try them on me! Earlier in my life, I used to just lurve when girls talk dirty! MM You just blown your chances of making it with my cyberniece! On the other hand who knows, there is a thin line between love and hate. Seriously, you are spot on on the hypocrisy thing. I said it so myself in the general discussions. While I believe that people have a right to live wherever they wish to live, it is nevertheless blatantly hypocritical to rant and rave against the godless West and how materialistic and anti-islamic it is, while at the same time enjoying the fruits of that very same materialism. As I said, none of these pro-Taliban guys here are willing to catch the Arianna to Kandahar are they? In fact every single one of them will do almost anything in order to shop at Wal-mart and guzzle fat American burgers in one side of their mouth while spewing hatred at Mcdonald's on the other! HYPOCRITES!!!
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| | Friday, March 16, 2001 - 07:02 am Galool, cute... VERY cute indeed......
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| | Friday, March 16, 2001 - 12:19 pm Passerby, you are right, MM can get to people sometimes. Madmac, you know I would have a greed with you to an extent if you didn't indulge in profanity and name calling. Anyway, I'll confess i'm the biggest of those hypocrites u mentioned above. But, hypocracy is not akin to us. You gotta admit your hypocracy is worse than ours. See, our hypocracy is something specific to us (the Muslims)due to weakness in faith. Our Islamic doctrine is not hypocritical. That is the big difference btn American policy which u subscribe to and our Islamic doctrine. Anyway, my hypocracy about the issues u mentioned is about to change soon ( I hope, insha allah). Common, myself and our "network" crew is also headed for Somalia. So we'll see u there insha Allah. BTW, I hope u don't mean what u said about the Afghans wanting and deserving the the killings and associated hunger. I hope it is just a reaction to what is posted. Galool, don't make me lose respect for you abtee. Somehow, I can't even say a moron to you. I wonder why, may be it is b/c u remind me of a family memeber. Anyway, I would say, true strength is not in the muscle but in controlling your anger. That is an Islamic teaching Galool. Subhallah, look how perfect this way of life is! Two years a go, I would have said all those words u mentioned above to you. But look what Islam did to me( or for me). I can't even insult u or MM when you belittle my belief and insult my creator. A change for the better I would call. Anyway, may allah guide you both and set your affiars right. Hey whitegirlNorway, u might wanna hook up with MM. You guys seem to have the same syndrome-love for Somalis. And since he is a lil experienced than you in this area, he will a valuable asset.
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| | Friday, March 16, 2001 - 12:55 pm Thanks for your advice TLG, but I don't "hook up" with guys... At least I prefer to chose them myself ;-) You know, I'm "legal" too... What's wrong about being curious or interested in people? What are you so damn afraid of, eh?
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| | Friday, March 16, 2001 - 01:52 pm WGN it is axiomatic that almost all Somalia are xenophobic - they can't help it. TLG I'll admit I'm profane. I mean, look at my background. I'm a professional soldier who has been soldiering for 16 plus years. And look, the Afghanis love to fight, they live to fight. If they wanted to stop the fighting they could, anytime. They generate reasons to fight just like the Somalis have. Where are you and Common, et al, going? I'm heading for Jasira.
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| | Friday, March 16, 2001 - 02:42 pm Mad Mac, yes, I have to admit that I feel like a stranger in here, but that's my own choice... Let's just say that I know how to survive...heheh! And it's also axiomatic that I'm in the wrong place... I hardly never discuss religion. As the heathen I am I have more than enough faith in myself. I just surfed on ANON and something he said about women... So it was all very harmless indeed...
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| | Friday, March 16, 2001 - 03:54 pm MM I think that was a bit harsh, which is out of character for you. Many Somalis are slightly Xenophobic, but that is because of ignorance, not because it is in their genes.
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| | Friday, March 16, 2001 - 07:09 pm Whitegirlnorway, you misread me. By "hook up" I meant team up with him, not find a lifetime partner in him. God, do u Norwegians always think in those terms when you hear the term "hook up"? There is nothing wrong with being "curious" or "interested" with people. And how is that you translated what I said to "fear"? MM, we are not limited to one city. We'll be ubiquitous.
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| | Saturday, March 17, 2001 - 05:21 am TLG, I knew exactly what you ment. But think in what terms...? I don't think Mad Mac needs to be a part of a team. He is doing perfectly well on his own... And as you already pointed out, he is more experienced than me, so I'll just let him do the typing... I can read and learn??  BTW; What is syndrome-love for Somalis?? A dangerous disease?
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| | Saturday, March 17, 2001 - 07:12 am WGN You can be interested in me anytime you want. I can say that now I know you are "legal"  I have no idea what that means, but it sounds interesting) Don't fly away little swan.
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| | Saturday, March 17, 2001 - 12:35 pm Galool, you have to ask TLG that question, because I borrowed the word from her....
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| | Saturday, March 17, 2001 - 01:03 pm Galool You think so? I didn't think I was harsh at all. I didn't even mention to here the national motto "Qabta gaal, di'il gaal." I do agree it is not in their genes, it's in the culure. IT always takes me a few minutes to get past that (in person of course) - something I'm actually kind of proud of. I think many guys are never able to get past it.
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| | Saturday, March 17, 2001 - 01:10 pm MM I was born and brought-up in Somalia, and I have never heard of that Motto, and I guarantee you it has never been a "national motto". It roughly translates as Catch an Infidel, Kill an Infidel, but it doesn't quite have the same ring to it in Somali. Where have you heard this? Was it used by the mobs during your stay in Mogadishu? I am fascinated. Please elaborate.
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| | Sunday, March 18, 2001 - 06:59 am Galool Calling it the national motto was kind of a joke. I could also say the national motto was "Issa Biyo" which I heard more than any other phrase. Yeah, it was used by people there and I have heard it since. I'm surprised you have never heard it. Yeah, your translation of my bad Somali is spot on. I wish I could speak better. IT bothers me that I have not really made an opportinity to learn it well. Where in Somalia did you grow up? Where you there when we were there? I loved it in Qooryoley and Merca and Afgooye and I never slept better than I did in Bale Dogle. I loved to waölk around Hamer, esspecially Iamer Weyne and Medina and Karan, where everyone was really friendly. Man I miss it.
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| | Sunday, March 18, 2001 - 07:19 am MM Issi Biyo is more like it! That is why I am going to open a chain of pubs all across the Somalia to quench the national thirst!(annoying FG and co. will be a welcome byproduct) No, I never heard Qabta Gaal... maybe because there weren't that many Gaals in Mog when I was there. I used to live in shibis, only ten minutes away from the old port. I also Afgoye, Shalambot, Qoryooley quite well. I left well before you guys came on the scene, but I remember there was a strong "tradition" of imitating America amongst Mog's young denizens, so I was surprised to see the town turn so anti-american. I remember quite few people calling themselves what they thought were American nick-names,(like Washington, James Brown, or the simple Ali Mareykan, Ahmed Mareykan etc) Such gaal-ass licking would be frowned upon in other parts of the country, particularly the more nomadic parts up north, but in Mogadishu people thought America was the promised land. One of the reasons I am still reluctant to go back is because I dread seeing all those places and landmarks I loved so much totally in their current state. It will be like looking at a fire-deformed face of a once beautiful maiden, and I m not sure how I will react to it.
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| | Sunday, March 18, 2001 - 08:23 am http://www.dubaibuzz.com/db/subliminals.htm Subliminal Messages Subliminal Messaging in the Media Industry The music industry is littered with backmasked messages, the list is endless. But what really is frightening, is the fact that subliminal messages on nearly all types of media, TV, radio, advertising, computer games, exists. BBC The concept of backward masking is not new; in fact it has been exploited since the dawn of radio. In the early 1920s, the BBC began broadcasting on radio for the first time, but the people of that era thought that the radio was so sinister, it was considered the voice of the devil, much to their misunderstanding. The BBC wanted to change this attitude to radio. The following is the perfect example of how subliminal messaging can be used to indoctrinate or induce the nation. This radio jingle sounds innocent enough, but when played backwards it reveals its true purpose. The words 'This is not a noose, no really its not.' can clearly be heard. The BBC certainly believed that the subconscious could pick up backward messages in ordinary speech. Thanks to David Oates for this clip. This radio jingle sounds innocent enough, but when played backwards it reveals its true purpose. The words 'This is not a noose, no really its not.' can clearly be heard. The BBC certainly believed that the subconscious could pick up backward messages in ordinary speech. Thanks to David Oates for this clip. Walt Disney : Aladdin The Disney animated movie Aladdin was watched by millions of people, mostly young children all over the world. But in one scene, where Aladdin is talking to a tiger, a mysterious voice can be heard in the background. Listen carefully and the words 'Take off your clothes' are clearly audible. Indeed, the above is not the only example of 'subliminal sex' in popular children's programmes. Popeye the sailor The immensely popular 'Popeye the Sailorman' song also contains messages in reverse, but much more explicitly. Backwards the words 'Give me a f***.' and 'Give me a f*** now.' can be heard. Thanks to David Oates for this clip. Pokemon : Pokerap Pokemon is the craze that has spread like wildfire into the hearts and minds of young kids all over the world. This has proved the perfect medium for subliminal tactics. On one of many songs featuring Pokemon, i.e. the 'Pokerap', there seems to be a backmasked message during the forward lyrics 'Gotta catch 'em all, Gotta catch 'em all!'. Make of it what you will but it sounds just like 'O Satan, O Satan, O Satan..' There may also be many other forms of subliminal advertising in Pokemon TV shows and merchandise. Many people have said to feel the need to pick up their Pokemon toys just after watching the TV programme. Thanks to Brian Hosmillo for this clip. There may also be many other forms of subliminal advertising in Pokemon TV shows and merchandise. Many people have said to feel the need to pick up their Pokemon toys just after watching the TV programme. Thanks to Brian Hosmillo for this clip. Judas Priest : Better by you, better by me The group Judas Priest were involved in a very controversial court case a few years ago. The parents of a young boy claimed that their (Judas Priest) songs drove their son to commit suicide. In one of their tracks, the words 'I took my life' can be heard in reverse, if not more clearly than the forward lyrics 'Beyond the realms of death.' The words 'Do it! Do it!' are supposed to be audible also in another part of the song. Is this case proof of the theory that the subconscious can comprehend reversed messages in songs? Queen : Another one bites the dust The very popular song 'Another one Bites the Dust' from Queen contains a pretty clear speech reversal that says 'It's fun to smoke marijuana.' Twinkle Twinkle Little Star Another interesting reversal is from the not so innocent nursery rhyme 'Twinkle Twinkle little Star', a recording was made from a 6-year-old girl and when played backwards the words 'I wish there were no Allah' can be heard. In Islam, the listening, making and singing of music are prohibited. Some say that this is the work of freemasons, attempting to subliminally secularize their biggest enemy, Islam. John Lennon : Imagine Musicians have always exploited Music as a means of propagating political ideas. Political ideologies are ingeniously diffused without the listener having to confirm affiliation. John Lennon was recognised as much as a 'thinker' as he was a musician. He was hailed by many, and still is, as a proponent of Democracy. Below is illustrated how John Lennon incorporated Marxist and communist ideologies into his music, in the famous single, Imagine. Imagine that there was no heaven, it's easy if you try 1 No hell below us, above us only sky 2 Imagine all the people living for Today 3 Imagine there are no countries 4 It isn't hard to, nothing to kill or die for, and no religion too 5 Imagine all the people living in peace, Imagine no possessions I wonder if you can, no need for greed or hunger, a brotherhood of Man Imagine all the people sharing all the world. 6 You may say that I am a dreamer, but I'm not the only one I hope some day you'll join us when the world be as one. 7 1. The attack on Religion. Marxism propagates Religion as an obstacle toward economic prosperity. Russia was once the seat of the Muslims. Bukhara and Samarkand were the centers of Muslim learning and civilisation. Imam Bukhari was from Bukhara. Communism openly and systematically almost destroyed Islam. It is no coincidence that architectural designs within the former Soviet Union look like mosques. Thousands of mosques were destroyed. The Ulema (scholars) were persecuted, books were burnt. It is only after two decades of struggle and Jihad that the Soviet Union was tamed. 2. The belief that there is no Jannah (Heaven) or Jahannum (Hell), that there is no Aakirah (Hereafter). 3. The attack on 'self interest', the guiding principle of Western economies. 4. The attack on Nationalism. The idea of a world view, a one world government, a 'New World Order'. 5. Once again the attack on Religion. According to Lennon these ideas are not fantasy but are practically achievable. 6. The belief that everything belongs to the State. The abolition of private property, individuals should worship the state and recognise it as their 'Rabb' (sustainer). 7. A century after Marx's death, there were well over a billion persons who were at least nominally his followers. That fact led many communists to hope that the future might well see the eventual world triumph of Marxism. (taken from 'Music Exposed' by Siraj Yusuf Lambat 'Time Publications') Subliminal messages can also be seen visually, on TV, adverts, etc. This camel advert may seem simple enough, but look closely at the nose and mouth. This poster is advertising a type of beverage, or is it? Look closely at the ice cubes in the glass, what do they spell? Click pic to enlarge. Look closely at the right hand side of the background behind the bottle; that wasn't put there by accident. Click pic to enlarge. This skull like figure is a blow up of an ice cube from another beverage commercial. Can you spot the subliminal message here? Click on the image to reveal its hidden message. You'll never see this image without seeing the message again... This is a scene from the Disney animated film, The Lion King. What you see in the middle of the picture is some leaves and dust being blown into the air, but if you look closely, the word 'SEX' can just be made out. It's too close for comfort. Click on the picture for a larger image. This is a scene from another Disney film, called The Rescuers. The two characters here are flying in a tin of sardines, but what you may notice on the building behind them, is a picture of a topless woman. Click on the picture for a larger image. Signs of Free Masonic Existance in the Media -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Traditionally, the Freemasons work behind close doors and have their puppet leaders and pawns to carry out their tasks. The real freemasons are unknown, but they are laying the pathway for the Dajjal, or anti-Christ. Although not many people know this, the Freemasons have claimed a large stake over many corporate organisations and are using these organisations to manipulate and monitor the masses. But the Masons have scattered signs of their existence in commerce and industry, some of which are shown below. You may recognise this from the back of a dollar bill. It is interesting to note that the pyramid and all seeing one eye are well known freemasonic symbols. But if you turn the pyramid over to form a six pointed star, as shown in the image, five of the points on the star point to the letters M, A, S, O and N. View an animation of this by clicking on the picture. It may not be a subliminal message as such, but still evidence of deliberate manipulations on household objects. Note: The words 'Novus Ordo Seclorum' are Latin for 'New Order of the Ages' (Is this the New World Order?). The BT (British Telecom) is another interesting image. The image is of a man blowing a sort of flute into the air with his left hand, but if you look carefully, the Piper's right arm, which follows through to his right leg, actually is a snake with its head pointing towards the sky. The Windows 95 startup screen has many interesting images, some of which are examined below. (1). The Microsoft logo has 7 trails, with three main black ones at the top, middle and bottom. Each of the three main trails has 6 boxes following each other, unknowingly spelling 666. There are a number of hidden images that can be found on the Windows 95 start up screen with the clouds in the background. On the right hand top corner, the face of a man (2) seeming to be looking down onto earth, is clearly visible. There also seems to be another face looking up. Just to the left of the Microsoft logo, the image of a dark horse (3) can be made out. The meaning of this image is open to interpretation, but the phrase 'dark horse' are all well known expressions. It is interesting to note that the file win95.bmp is clearly different from the above and after careful examination it can be safe to say that the start up logo screen, had in fact been heavily retouched. It would be highly unlikely that these hidden images were formed by accident. In fact, it is common knowledge within the computer software industry, that Bill Gates, creator of Windows, had purchased a number of Winslow Homer paintings for a huge sum of money. What is intriguing about this is that the artist Winslow Homer was known among some people for placing hidden images, especially faces, on his paintings. There are a number of other hidden images on the win95.bmp file, which can be found in your Windows directory, such as the image of a flying bird just above the Microsoft logo. Main Page | Free Masons | Audio/Video Lectures | Articles | Contact us The truth behind today's popular music Music is more popular than ever and is a prt of everyday life, but what really lies behind the lyrics? Backtracking, or backmasking is the form of inserting hidden messages into tracks which can only be consciously heard when played backwards. Most of the time these messages are inserted purposefully, sometimes by accident, some people even believe that the subconscious can actually pick up these messages. But the nature of the backtracked messages in many modern pop songs is so sinister as to leave no doubt to the intentions and affiliations of these singers. The following are examples of such cases where the backward lyrics seem to fit the suggestions Micheal Jackson Michael Jackson is probably the most successful musician in history, but does he hold a dark secret? It is interesting to note that many major musicians have had close ties with Aleister Crowley, a Satanist well known to the occult. Michael Jackson's 'Dangerous' album (right) has the face of an old man in a suit (bottom right hand corner), fitting the description of Crowley himself. The cover of the Beatles album Sgt. Pepper has many faces and one of them looking similar to Crowley. Beat It : Forward: '(indecipherable gibberish) so beat it!' Reverse: 'I do believe it was Satan in me.' Forward : 'You better run, you better do what you can, don't wanna see some blood don't be a macho man.' Reverse : 'S-a-t-a-n. S-a-y (indecipherable gibberish) People all worship.' Morphine: Forward : 'This won't hurt you..' Reverse : 'O Satan!' Man in the Mirror : Forward: 'I'm starting with the man in the mirror, I'm asking if he'll change his way.' 'I'm starting with the man in the mirror, I'm asking if he'll change his way.''I'm starting with the man in the mirror, I'm asking if he'll change his way.' Reverse : 'Come on. Yeah Satan, yeah, just like me exact.' Led Zeppelin : Stairway to heaven If there were a top 40 of reversals, this would definitely be number one. It is interesting to note that one of the artists (Jimmy Page) bought Aleister Crowley's house in Scotland which had become a well known Satanic church and was known amongst them as 'The Toolhouse'. Crowley had advocated in his books that his followers should learn to read and speak backwards. Forward: 'If there's a bustle in your hedgerow, don't be alone now, it's just a spring clean for the May queen. Yes there are two paths you can go back, but in the long run there's still time to change the road you're on.' Reverse: 'Here's to my sweet Satan. The one whose little path would make me sad, whose power is satan. He'll give you 666, there was a little toolshed where he made us suffer, sad Satan.' Forward: 'When she gets there she knows...' Reverse: 'One chance. I hate you.' Forward: 'Your stairway lies on the whispering wind.' Reverse: 'Because I live with Satan.' The Eagles : Hotel California Comments: Indeed, the hotel in Hotel California is not in fact a hotel. The 'California' is a street in Los Angeles where the first Satanic Church was built, headed by Anton DeLovay, author of the Satanic Bible. Many major musicians were said to have attended this church, including Mick Jagger of the Rolling Stones (see below). Forward: 'There were voices down the corridor, thought I heard them say, welcome to the hotel California.' Reverse: 'Yeah Satan, he organized, oh, he organized his own religion. Yeah, when he knows he should, how nice it was delicious, he puts it in a vet he fixes it for his son which he gives away.' The Rolling Stones : Tops The Rolling Stones are much more subtle. They use particular sound frequencies to arouse certain emotions in people. At one large American concert it is reported that during one experiment they aroused people to a violent mood which resulted in five murders that night. Forward: 'Or be sorry for the rest of your sweet loving life.' Reverse: 'Yeah, I love you said the devil.' Electric Light Orchestra : Some people thought that the voice on the track was that of the devil. Forward: (indecipherable gibberish) Reverse: 'The music is reversible, but time is not. Turn back! Turn back! Turn back!' Madonna : Like a prayer Madonna is well known for her extravagant and unique style of music, but there are mysterious freemasonic elements in one of her videos. In one scene, the symbol of freemasonry, the all seeing one eye is seen coming out of Madonna's forehead. She is also seen dancing on some writing; closer examination shows that this writing is Arabic, the language of the Qur'an. Forward: 'Life is a mystery.' Reverse: 'O hear our savior Satan.' Pink Floyd : Empty Spaces Another perfect example of a deliberately backmasked message. Forward: (indecipherable gibberish) Reverse: 'Congratulations! You've just discovered the secret message. Please send your answer to Old Pink, care of the funny farm...' U2 : With or without you Forward: 'And I wait without you, with or without you..' Reverse: 'We slap you too, we slap you.' Queen : Another one bites the dust This clip is very popular, and could be an example of an accidental backmask, or could it... Forward: 'Another one bites the dust...' Reverse: 'It's fun to smoke marijuana' Metallica : Am I Evil? (Original from Diamond Head) Taken from the Underground Noize site. Forward: 'Am I evil? Yes I am. Am I evil, I am mam, yes I am.' Reverse: 'O-oh, I am Satan, I am I am. O-oh, yeah I'm it. Yeah I'm Satan, O-oh, yeah I'm it. Yes I'm it.' AC/DC : Dirty Deeds Taken from the Underground Noize site. Forward: 'Pick up the phone, leave her alone, it's time you made your stand...' Reverse: 'And I said yeah I'm the Nazi.. Ooh and I love it.. Who the f*** are you?' Forward: 'If you're having trouble with the high school head... he's giving you the blues. You wanna rock every night instead. It's what you gotta do.' Reverse: 'Oooh, should I discuss it. Hey Satan I'm the millionth guy to know me. Smooth murdering is easy, hey who is not? I killed one last night.' Nine Inch Nails : Gave up Taken from the Underground Noize site. Forward: 'Wake up, wake up, wake up, wake up, wake up in flames!' Reverse: 'F*** you, f*** you, f*** you, f*** you, f*** you!' You may say that these songs are harmless because nobody listens to them backwards, but some psychiatrists agree that the subconscious mind can pick up these backward messages and if you listen to them enough, they become embedded in your subconscious mind. These tracks may or may not have been deliberately altered, but the fact is that the backward lyrics are undeniably fitting to what they sound like. If they are, why would the artists put these messages in to their songs, and why do they have to be satanic, why can't they be something moral such as 'be good to your friends'?. Backmasking in tracks is not the only evidence of evil in everyday life. Subliminal messaging also exists... http://www.dubaibuzz.com/db/backmask.htm http://www.dubaibuzz.com/
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| | Sunday, March 18, 2001 - 11:32 am Anonymous Do you do any original work? Galool The city didn't turn anti-American. That's the media at work. Among the Abgal, Murosade and Hawadle we were treated like liberators. Everytime I went to Medina, Karan, Hawlwadawg, and other areas north of the city I was treated like a hero. Everyone was friendly. I even had a woman hug me and kiss me on the cheek once. It was only in the Gedir controlled areas where we had trouble. We weren't too popular with the Shekal either. and occasionally we had confrontations with the Ogadeni (not many in Hamer though) and the Dir. But by and large, most Somalis from Afgooye to Merca were really friendly - MUCH more friendly than the Saudis when I served there.
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| | Sunday, March 18, 2001 - 11:49 am Hm, anonymous, I find your post here quite interesting...because you have picked some of my favorite artists...lol....is it wrong of me to say so...?? It makes me wonder...what else is it that I'm not aware of... ;-)
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| | Sunday, March 18, 2001 - 12:25 pm NICE TO SEE A MOVIE ABOUT SOMALIA FINALLY. I WONDER IF THERE ARE SOMALI ACTORS IN THAT MOVIE OR EXTRAS. I BET THEY HAVE THOSE WHO LOOK LIKE SOMALIS PLAYING WORLDLORDS-------SUDANEES, ETHIOPIANS AND ERITREANS. THOSE WHO WANT TO JOIN BEFORE THE MOVIE PRODECTION IS OVER, CALL OR WRITE TO THE PRODUCER AND SEE IF YOU CAN BE ONE OF THE EXTRAS OR ACTORS IF IT IS NOT TOO LATE. .................. Sunday, February 25, 2001 - 09:41 pm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- February 21st, 2001 It would seem like the cast are being put through boot camp at the moment in preparation for the beginning of filming in Morocco very shortly. Josie from Mad About Ewan has sent in the following interview transcript from Empire Online which reveals more information about casting. Interview with British actor Jason Issacs: Q. What are you up to at the moment? A. I'm just off tomorrow to start filming Black Hawk Down - a Ridley Scott film about American troops who were trapped in Mogadishu in 1993. That accounts for the shaved head. We're shooting it in Morocco - they weren't too keen on us going back to Somalia to film there. Q. What character do you play? A. I play Captain Steel. He's the commander of the Rangers on the ground. The bizarre irony is that I've just been doing Boot Camp in Fort Bening Georgia with the real US Rangers for a week and there was seven of us Brits in it. So Ridley Scott's obviously decided to hire a lot of us!'. Q. Can you tell us anything about the cast? A. The Ewans are in it - McGregor and Bremner, Ioan Gruffudd is in it - although he wasn't at boot camp because he's playing a pilot, Orlando Bloom, Matthew Marsden, Tom Hardy. Q. Did you get nights off? A. No. It was tough. We were around the real rangers and they'd fought their way through the battle and a lot of their friends had died. So we took it seriously because we were trying to honour their memory. It was too tough, frankly. It's a great thing to have done, in retrospect. But I can't pretend that in the middle of it, I didn't wish I was here. The first two days was fun, and the last day was fun - it was just the time in between when you thought "When is this ever going to end?" The great thing for me is I'm playing a Captain. They treated me like a Captain for the week, so I got used to the rank which disappeared the second we finished on Friday night. I could say "Drop and give me 20" if they weren't behaving properly. So it would seem that Jason Issacs has been cast in the role of Captain Steele who led Chalk One which were amongst the first to respond to the downing of Durante's Blackhawk. Where Have We Seen Them Before? Jason Isaacs: The Patriot (Colonel William Tavington), Armageddon (Ronald Quincy) Ioan Gruffudd: Horatio Hornblower (A&E Movies), Titanic (5th Officer Lowe) Matthew Marsden: Coronation Street '97-'98 Tom Hardy: new to Hollywood films. News: January 11th - February 15th News: December 30th - January 8th Welcome to CineMAYHEM's anticipation site for the new action movie by producer Jerry Bruckheimer (Pearl Harbor, The Rock and Armageddon) and director Ridley Scott (Alien, Gladiator, Hannibal). Based on the true story of America's worst military battle since the Vietnam war, Black Hawk Down promises to be a gripping account of the events in Somalia in 1993 which resulted in the deaths of 18 soldiers. The production status meter on the right hand side of this page will be updated in line with what is happening on the production of this film. Principal photography is schedule to begin on February 23rd, with a release date of November 2nd, 2001. At this point in time Josh Hartnett (Pearl Harbor, The Faculty) and Australian actor Eric Bana have signed on to the project, with Tom Sizemore currently in negotiations. Studio newcomer Revolution Studios has picked up the project for domestic release. Over the next 10 months CineMAYHEM's Black Hawk Down website will bring you the latest production news, as well as information about the real events of that day in October. If you have any information that you would like to contribute to this site then please do not hesitate to email myself and anonymity is assured for those who want it. http://www.cinemayhem.com/blackhawkdown/ Sweetg Monday, February 26, 2001 - 12:37 pm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MM, you gonna be in the movie If you gone be in the movie what role? Anonymous Monday, February 26, 2001 - 03:51 pm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- WOOW. MAD MAC IS AN ACTOR TOO PLAYING HIMSELF IN THAT MOVIE! WHEN WILL THIS MOVIE WILL COME OUT SO I CAN SEE MAD MAC IN ACTION? VERY GOOD Tuesday, February 27, 2001 - 12:33 am -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.philly.com/packages/somalia/sitemap.asp Table of Contents Chapter 1: Hail Mary, then doom Background: A defining battle leaves lasting scars Chapter 2: Dazed, blood-spattered and frantic Chapter 3: A terrifying scene, then a big crash Chapter 4: An outgunned but relentless enemy Chapter 5: 'My God, you guys. Look at this!' Chapter 6: Trying to get in sync amid the chaos Chapter 7: Another grenade, another chopper hit Chapter 8: A second crash, and no escape Chapter 9: Alone and at the mercy of an angry mob Chapter 10: At the base, bravery and hesitation Chapter 11: Besieged, disoriented as the bullets fly Chapter 12: Left, right, left - lost and bloody Chapter 13: No cover from the flying grenades Chapter 14: Hammered, and still no sign of help Chapter 15: Ambush after ambush; Fighting just to stay alive Chapter 16: Furious attacks on a second convoy Chapter 17: At first helicopter crash, more bodies Chapter 18: Rescue team comes under fierce fire Chapter 19: A desperate battle to hold the crash site Chapter 20: Uneasy partners under heavy fire Chapter 21: A shared quest: Punish the invaders Chapter 22: A Ranger's plea for help as the body count climbs Chapter 23: As darkness nears, a dreaded feeling Chapter 24: Disarray in command, and trapped Chapter 25: Besieged, disoriented as bullets fly Chapter 26: At rescue, relief tinged with sorrow Chapter 27: Durant's ordeal of agony and terror Chapter 28: On TV, the battered face of Durant Chapter 29: The final chapter: Freeing a pilot, ending a mission Analysis: How a relief mission ended in a firefight Photo Galleries Somalia: A Nation in Name Only - Photographs by Peter Tobia Introduction Guns and fear Daily living The future Soldier's Eye View - Photographs taken during the mission in 1993 by soldiers Video Clips Master list of video clips Videos categorized by speaker Audio clips Audio clips from radio transmissions Audio clips from interviews Ask the Author Round 1 of Q&A Round 2 of Q&A Round 3 of Q&A Round 4 of Q&A Round 5 of Q&A Round 6 of Q&A Round 7 of Q&A Round 8 of Q&A Round 9 of Q&A Round 10 of Q&A Round 11 of Q&A Round 12 of Q&A Round 13 of Q&A Round 14 of Q&A Round 15 of Q&A Round 16 of Q&A Round 17 of Q&A Round 18 of Q&A Round 19 of Q&A Round 20 of Q&A Final notes on Q&A Other sections Maps Graphics Glossary Who's who Ask the author Other resources About the series Anonymous Tuesday, February 27, 2001 - 12:56 am -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Losing Mogadishu: Testing U.S. Policy in Somalia Stevenson, Jonathan. Annapolis, Md.: Naval Institute Press, 1995. 183pp. $24.95 http://www.nwc.navy.mil/press/Review/1996/autumn/som-a96.htm The book jacket of Losing Mogadishu quotes the former U.S. ambassador to Kenya, Smith Hempstone, famous for his prediction of Somalia as America's next "tar baby," as saying that this book is "required reading of anyone interested in the origins of the Somalia debacle." I would go one step further: it should be required reading for anyone involved in a U.S. humanitarian effort overseas. Not only does this comprehensive, thoroughly researched book provide an honest appraisal of what went wrong in Somalia, it also spells out how the lessons learned from the experience should guide our foreign policy, the use of U.S. military force in humanitarian interventions, and our relationship with the United Nations. We would do well to heed its warning. Although author Jonathan Stevenson cites numerous reasons for the United States' poor performance in Somalia, two stand out in particular: the failure to understand Somali culture and a fear of repeating Vietnam. To this reviewer, who was in Somalia at the time of Operation RESTORE HOPE, these factors are more important than others because their impact is so far-reaching. In addition, they are deceivingly benign, so it is important that others less familiar with Somalia understand them. In his early chapters, Stevenson, a lawyer turned journalist, introduces us to Somali culture--a multifaceted society with one pervasive feature, the clan. One's clan affiliation determines everything in Somali life. This alone defies any notion of a centralized politic, a fact not appreciated by everyone determining American policy in the country. Stevenson further characterizes Somali culture as a series of "shifting loyalties and fluid allegiances." Loyalty extends only to the sub-clan, whose "collective alignment [rolls] with the moment." The author also addresses America's patronage of Somalia during the Cold War, specifically with respect to how remote the United States was. Such distancing precluded any attempt to learn about Somali culture. America's interests in the country were focused instead on the port of Bardera, which in 1980 became the U.S. Rapid Deployment Force's base on the Indian Ocean. Over the next few years, the United States would pour more money into Somalia, not to help the Somalis shoulder up against Soviet-backed Ethiopian border excursions but rather to overhaul facilities intended to help expand American military power in the region. Stevenson believes Vietnam was another reason why America kept its distance from Somalia. The United States' experience in Vietnam not only made it reluctant to insinuate its military into another country, it also "soured U.S. policy makers on the practice of intimately conditioning local governments to further American ideological interests." Thus another opportunity for a deepened understanding of Somali culture was lost. The consequences of failing to understand Somali culture and of being a slave to Vietnam's memory come through loudly and clearly in Stevenson's analysis of Operation RESTORE HOPE and the subsequent debacle. He describes a force that could "put a very large bomb on a small target from very far away" yet could hardly utter a "hello" to a Somali, a task just as important to the success of the operation as dropping bombs. There are discussions about the bungled psychological operations (PSYOPS) messages, innocent encounters that got rough because of a language barrier, and potentially embarrassing situations resulting from the failure of many soldiers to realize that most Somalis are Muslim. Although Stevenson applauds a PSYOPS campaign that was designed to keep the Somali population informed about task force activities, he points out that Somalis did not want just to be informed, they wanted to be included. He also describes how the original optimism slowly eroded with time. Marines became less friendly and more cautious. Somalis stopped perceiving Americans as saviors. As more time passed, the American forces simply "got cynical." There came to be two worlds in Mogadishu, one within the walls of the UN compound, equipped with most of the comforts of the Western world, and one outside the walls, with no running water, no sewerage, and no electric power. With this sort of information provided as background, the reader is hardly surprised by the disaster of 3 October. It simply represented the unfortunate culmination of ignorance of who Somalis are, American arrogance (in assuming Aidid's militias were incompetent, unarmed, and unorganized), and, to quote Stevenson, America's falling victim to "an old Third World seduction: simple people, simple problems, simple solutions." Stevenson's command of the facts and his intuitive understanding of the whole of Somalia make him well qualified to tell us how the U.S. experience there should guide the nation in the future, and he does so in the last few chapters of the book. His lessons run the gamut, from gentle reminders of things that should be obvious ("Military Intervention Is the Last Resort" and "Establish Tight Command and Control" to the less obvious ("Know Your Enemy" and "Keep Vietnam in Perspective". He also has extensive sections on the U.S.-UN relationship and the moral impetus of American foreign policy in the post-Cold War world--which the United States may or may not want to have. What makes this book so compelling is the author's ability to link the United States' poor performance in Somalia to such factors as ignorance and a fear of repeating the past. It is also compelling because of its timing. This book was published just as the United States was deciding to become involved in the Bosnia crisis. One can only hope those involved with Bosnia, either militarily or politically, had a chance to read this book before they took any action. Katherine A.W. McGrady Director, Joint Task Force Team Operating Forces Division Center for Naval Analyses Anonymous Tuesday, February 27, 2001 - 01:03 am -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://ez2www.com/go.php3?site=book&go=0275949257 PG Tuesday, February 27, 2001 - 11:21 am -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MM, Where are you? Wen will the book you are in come out? What is the authors name? ANON Tuesday, February 27, 2001 - 02:13 pm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- mad mac---i did search the book you told me to check-----Falcon Brigade, but i could not find it. i also would like to know the name of the author of that book. let me know, would you? XMAN Tuesday, February 27, 2001 - 02:41 pm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Looks like the book is about the moral support of the loosing americans in that little war and those who died in it. Falcon Brigade : Combat and Command in Somalia and Haiti, by Lawrence E. Casper.-----Within little more than a year of the Gulf fight, GIs were back in danger. This time it was the East African country of Somalia. Dispatched in late 1992 to save the starving, U.S. soldiers and Marines ended up fighting for their own lives on occasion: 43 would lose their lives there before America pulled out in 1994. Numerous Posts "adopted" units serving in Somalia. Contributions to morale ranged from donating care packages to ensuring the names of those killed were added to war memorials. Col. Lawrence E. Casper, CO of the 10th Mountain Division's Falcon Brigade, wrote from Mogadishu, Somalia's capital, in response to a Missouri Post's gifts. "Not only does your gift enhance the morale of our soldiers," he said, "but equally beneficial is the assurance that people back home do care about what we are doing. Your support helps motivate us as we execute our mission." Lt. Col. Bill David, commander of the 10th's Task Force 2-14, wrote to VFW magazine: "We have been involved in all the fighting here in Mogadishu since Aug. 1, 1993, to include the rescue of 90 Rangers and the ensuing battle of Oct. 3-4. LOL Wednesday, February 28, 2001 - 06:10 am -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is interesting! Mad Mac is hiding! w..g..n Sunday, March 18, 2001 - 01:33 pm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Interesting indeed. http://www.philly.com/packages/somalia/nov16/default16.asp
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| | Sunday, March 18, 2001 - 12:33 pm Now, THAT was NOT so interesting... I think I am aware of more here now....
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| | Sunday, March 18, 2001 - 01:00 pm Thursday, March 01, 2001 - 04:06 am -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jamaal4, this is for you: What the hell is going on? Electronic Telegraph International News Tuesday 24 June 1997 Issue 760 Belgian UN troops admit to 'roasting' Somali boy By Robert Fox and AFP http://www.telegraph.co.uk TWO Belgian paratroopers who were photographed "roasting" a Somali boy over a flaming brazier are expected to be jailed for only a month and fined #200 after admitting the atrocity in a military court in Brussels yesterday. Privates Claude Baert and Kurt Coelus faced a maximum of a year in jail but the prosecutor demanded only a month. Sentence will be passed on Monday. The case against a third soldier accused of atrocities during the United Nations "Restore Hope" mission three years ago was adjourned until September. Sgt Dirk Nassel is accused of forcing a young Somali to eat pork, drink salt water, and then eat his vomit. The three soldiers were charged with assault and threatening behaviour. A fourth member of the 3rd battalion of the Parachute Regiment, based at Tielen in Flanders, is also due to go on trial in September. Sergeant Major Rudy Derkinderen is suspected of having murdered a Somali whom he was photographed urinating on. The circumstances surrounding the death of another child at the paratroopers' base near Kismayo in southern Somalia are also under investigation. According to the testimony of two former paratroopers, the boy, who had been caught trying to steal food, died after being locked in a container for 48 hours. The Defence Minister, Jean-Pol Poncelet, has promised that any of the paratroopers found guilty of criminal acts in Somalia will be dishonourably discharged. Baert has already left the army but Coelus is now in the navy and Nassel has remained at Tielen. Mr Poncelet has also ordered an inquiry to establish whether the incidents were part of a broader pattern of abuse of the local population. If it is, he has promised to disband the 3rd battalion. Fifteen members of the regiment were investigated in 1995 for "acts of sadism and torture" against Somalian civilians. One paratrooper has been sentenced to five years, following the murder of a Somalian youth, who allegedly had uncovered illegal arms trading by the paratroopers. Belgium is the third country involved in the "Restore Hope" mission to charge its soldiers for serious misdemeanours against Somalian civilians, including rape, torture and murder. In 1995 a group of Canadian paratroopers were investigated for torturing a Somali to death and killing three others. The charges of indiscipline, racism, and the rituals for new members of the unit led to the Canadian Airborne Regiment being disbanded last year. Earlier this month gruesome photographs were published in a Milan magazine of Italian soldiers torturing a young Somali youth, and abusing and raping a young Somali girl. Two Italian generals involved in "Restore Hope" have subsequently resigned to clear the way for a major investigation of the unit involved, the Folgore (Lightning) Division currently deployed on peacekeeping duties in Albania. The Italian parliament has set up a major investigation and boards of inquiry of the Italian army are at work. Paratroopers of the Folgore claim that they were specifically trained in methods of torture to aid interrogation. According to one witness Italian soldiers tied a young Somali girl to the front of an armoured carrier and raped her while officers looked on. The witness told investigators: "When the officers wanted to have fun, everybody went along with it." Over the weekend an interpreter with the Italian force in Somalia accused a Folgore battalion commander of sexually abusing a 13-year-old Somali youth. The "Restore Hope" mission has become the most controversial of all recent peacekeeping operations undertaken under the UN banner. It was mandated in 1992 to provide medical aid and food after civil order in Somalia collapsed following the overthrow of the Marxist dictator Maj Gen Muhammad Siad Barri, after a 17-year civil war. The operation was directed by an American admiral, and spearheaded by American Marines. After the murder of 20 Pakistani soldiers in an ambush and the killing and dragging of two American Marines through the streets of Mogadishu, the American command moved from peacekeeping to offensive operations against the warlords running the main Somali cities, principally Mogadishu and Kismayo. Though they used helicopter gunships and area bombardment, the Americans failed to defeat the leading warlord, Gen Muhammad Farrah Aidid, and eventually the UN forces were ordered to withdraw. A common thread through the accusations against the Belgian, Italian and Canadian forces, is the racism of elite units, particularly airborne units, and their inability to adapt to low-intensity peacekeeping operations. Last week an Italian paratrooper said: "What's the big deal? They are just niggers anyway." The head of the UN's peacekeeping department, Under Secretary General Bernard Miyet, said: "The image of the United Nations has been tarnished." movie Thursday, March 01, 2001 - 04:09 am -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Somali killings covered up by Canadians By Fred Langan in Toronto A REPORT on the murder and torture of Somali civilians by Canadian peacekeepers has condemned the senior military command and the government for trying to cover up the killings. But the findings were rejected by Art Eggleton, the Defence Minister, who accused the independent commission of making unproven allegations and blaming the entire military for the actions of a few. The Canadian Airborne Regiment was disbanded because of the allegations. The report said senior officers did not want to make a fuss because the then defence minister, Kim Campbell, was standing for the leadership of the Conservative Party. Mr Justice Gilles Letourneau, the commission chairman, said of the soldiers involved: "They felt they were above the law." http://www.telegraph.co.uk/et?ac=004452941505900&rtmo=LxlLythd&atmo=rrrrrrrq&pg=/et/95/1/25/airb2501.jpeg movie Thursday, March 01, 2001 - 04:11 am -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Belgian UN troops admit to 'roasting' Somali boy By Robert Fox and AFP TWO Belgian paratroopers who were photographed "roasting" a Somali boy over a flaming brazier are expected to be jailed for only a month and fined £200 after admitting the atrocity in a military court in Brussels yesterday. Privates Claude Baert and Kurt Coelus faced a maximum of a year in jail but the prosecutor demanded only a month. Sentence will be passed on Monday. The case against a third soldier accused of atrocities during the United Nations "Restore Hope" mission three years ago was adjourned until September. Sgt Dirk Nassel is accused of forcing a young Somali to eat pork, drink salt water, and then eat his vomit. The three soldiers were charged with assault and threatening behaviour. A fourth member of the 3rd battalion of the Parachute Regiment, based at Tielen in Flanders, is also due to go on trial in September. Sergeant Major Rudy Derkinderen is suspected of having murdered a Somali whom he was photographed urinating on. The circumstances surrounding the death of another child at the paratroopers' base near Kismayo in southern Somalia are also under investigation. According to the testimony of two former paratroopers, the boy, who had been caught trying to steal food, died after being locked in a container for 48 hours. The Defence Minister, Jean-Pol Poncelet, has promised that any of the paratroopers found guilty of criminal acts in Somalia will be dishonourably discharged. Baert has already left the army but Coelus is now in the navy and Nassel has remained at Tielen. Mr Poncelet has also ordered an inquiry to establish whether the incidents were part of a broader pattern of abuse of the local population. If it is, he has promised to disband the 3rd battalion. Fifteen members of the regiment were investigated in 1995 for "acts of sadism and torture" against Somalian civilians. One paratrooper has been sentenced to five years, following the murder of a Somalian youth, who allegedly had uncovered illegal arms trading by the paratroopers. Belgium is the third country involved in the "Restore Hope" mission to charge its soldiers for serious misdemeanours against Somalian civilians, including rape, torture and murder. In 1995 a group of Canadian paratroopers were investigated for torturing a Somali to death and killing three others. The charges of indiscipline, racism, and the rituals for new members of the unit led to the Canadian Airborne Regiment being disbanded last year. Earlier this month gruesome photographs were published in a Milan magazine of Italian soldiers torturing a young Somali youth, and abusing and raping a young Somali girl. Two Italian generals involved in "Restore Hope" have subsequently resigned to clear the way for a major investigation of the unit involved, the Folgore (Lightning) Division currently deployed on peacekeeping duties in Albania. The Italian parliament has set up a major investigation and boards of inquiry of the Italian army are at work. Paratroopers of the Folgore claim that they were specifically trained in methods of torture to aid interrogation. According to one witness Italian soldiers tied a young Somali girl to the front of an armoured carrier and raped her while officers looked on. The witness told investigators: "When the officers wanted to have fun, everybody went along with it." Over the weekend an interpreter with the Italian force in Somalia accused a Folgore battalion commander of sexually abusing a 13-year-old Somali youth. The "Restore Hope" mission has become the most controversial of all recent peacekeeping operations undertaken under the UN banner. It was mandated in 1992 to provide medical aid and food after civil order in Somalia collapsed following the overthrow of the Marxist dictator Maj Gen Muhammad Siad Barré, after a 17-year civil war. The operation was directed by an American admiral, and spearheaded by American Marines. After the murder of 20 Pakistani soldiers in an ambush and the killing and dragging of two American Marines through the streets of Mogadishu, the American command moved from peacekeeping to offensive operations against the warlords running the main Somali cities, principally Mogadishu and Kismayo. Though they used helicopter gunships and area bombardment, the Americans failed to defeat the leading warlord, Gen Muhammad Farrah Aidid, and eventually the UN forces were ordered to withdraw. A common thread through the accusations against the Belgian, Italian and Canadian forces, is the racism of elite units, particularly airborne units, and their inability to adapt to low-intensity peacekeeping operations. Last week an Italian paratrooper said: "What's the big deal? They are just niggers anyway." The head of the UN's peacekeeping department, Under Secretary General Bernard Miyet, said: "The image of the United Nations has been tarnished." jamaaal4 Thursday, March 01, 2001 - 04:11 am -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- movie Iam not talking politics here nor am defending american action in mogadisho you lax.... A deadsoul has tobe buried proberly with respect. that is not only a common sense thing but also our religion's message....everything has a limit. once you kill someone and u stop there,you cant just try and torture the deadbody..its sickening. not only that..you also have to bury it if need be u need a lecture about (xormadda meydkaa).. unless u are cawaan..you dabaal..only joking. movie Thursday, March 01, 2001 - 04:12 am -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.newsworld.cbc.ca/archive/html/1997/06/30/belgium.html movie Thursday, March 01, 2001 - 04:31 am -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.texemarrs.com/101997/UNHELL.HTM movie Thursday, March 01, 2001 - 04:41 am -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jamaal4, Talk about dabaal, dragging dead american body on the streets is not politics, but raosting alive Somali boy is politics? jamaaal4 Thursday, March 01, 2001 - 05:16 am -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- what????roasting someone????? hey people aren't chicken tobe roasted.... this is the worst acrocity I ever heard.. I dont believe it though.. aniga maa doqon ah mise adiga??? one of us must be terribly dhaadhaan. lol Sister Thursday, March 01, 2001 - 12:00 pm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- movies, jamaal4 only stated that it is not something to be proud of american dead bodies that were dragged thru mogadisho streets.in Islam ,it says respect the dead bodies.you r not supposed to touch it little hard forget about dragging. why do Somalis always jump into something else?? he didnt talk about somali kids that were tortured! i dont see why you attacking him with your long infos.we all somalis know incidences happened in somalia. jamaal4, it is unfortunate alot of us(somalis) see or read into the posting in different manner. you r not first or last one who was attacked in this manner. at least you r lucky they didnt accuse you gender war that follows every posting! movie. Thursday, March 01, 2001 - 12:12 pm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jamaal4, You say you don't believe the roasinting a Somali boy alive story by the gaalada happened, but you believe the dragging a dead American guy story happened!. now you are not only daadhaan, but daba-dhilif. .@LOL jamaaal4 Friday, March 02, 2001 - 04:00 am -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- movie qosolkaa iga dhameesay aabahaa cun.. war illeen????? adigoo kalena waa iska joogtaa aduunka oo geesgees wax u fahma.... hey the sister said it all..if u can only try to understand yaa xoolo yaa muqafal... next time farwaaweyn in wax lagugu qoro weeyaan illeen damiin ayaa tahee... movie Friday, March 02, 2001 - 10:19 am -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jamaal4, it has been said that fools don't understand things clearly. They don't even understand if the joke is on them or not. They just laugh. The joke is no you, damiin. .@LOL MAD MAC Monday, March 05, 2001 - 05:41 am -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I'm impressed with the depth of the discussion. Movie, have you ever heard the saying that taking a warm coat off of my back won't make your back any warmer? The same applies here. The fact the some of the UN troops participating in operations in Somalia may or may not have committed some criminal acts in no way mitigates the dragging through the streets of Shugart, Gordon, Frank, Cleveland and Fields. It was both appalling and in contravention to Islamic law (I understand some of the ring leaders have subsequently been punished by Islamic courts in Mogadischu). Everyone here seems to get that point but you. Just as the soldiers who committed criminal acts should be punished for them, so the same holds true of those who committed this act (although I personally understood it, though of course I didn't condone it. I can't say I was appalled.) But you guys are always the ones raising the Islamic banner so now it's time to belly up to the bar - so to speak. movie Monday, March 05, 2001 - 12:23 pm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mad Mac, you are an american and you are a martinet, AFMIISHAAR OR GUULWADE OR ASKARI. I understand that you being an American ASKARI and your reactions, but what i don't understand Jamaali4. He thinks dragging dead american body on the streets is not politics, but roasting alive Somali boy is politics. He is not only hypocrite, but dumb and dabadhilib or dayuus. What hurts him more is the dead american body being dragged on the streets than roasting Somali boy alive.! He and you are different. You make everyone toe the mark right down to the last centimeter. You exact blind, unquestioning obedience--demand the strictest conformity to American rules, however arbitrary or tyrannical and will not tolerate the slightest devation from the orders of your superiors. You are, in short, the very epitome of the army drill sergeant, a superpatriot. Anything you own or belong to is better simply because you own it or belong to it, although you will be quick to find more justifiable explanations. BTW, what do you think of BLACK HAWK DOWN A STORY OF MODERN WAR BY MARK BOWDEN AND THE MOVIE MADE ABOUT IT? movie Monday, March 05, 2001 - 12:31 pm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jamaal4 said he does not believe the roasting a Somali boy happened. Isn't he blind or dayuus? He said >hey people aren't chicken tobe roasted.... this is the worst acrocity I ever heard.. I dont believe it though< However, he believes the dragging the dead American guy story to be true.! aniga maa doqon ah mise adiga???< I say adiga. .@.LOL@.@ jamaaal4 Monday, March 05, 2001 - 08:41 pm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- movie its eid day and iam very happy thus iam not going to involve in a personal argument with you.. you said iam dayuus...letme ask u this.. Do you understand what dayuus actually mean..I bet u dont...so shame on u coz u call people things u dont understand.... letme make clear to u for the last time... dragging deadbody on the streets is badddddddd. and I mean here anybody not necessarily american body...JUST ANYBODY... and I believe the incident in mogadishu coz I saw it myself on the tv. and dont twist things please.. when u say dabadelif,halkee dabadeyda ku aragtay waryaa..soo ma xishooneysid wax qof weyn ku hadlo miyaa waxaas........... you are not only dhadhaan but arrogant as well.. movie Monday, March 05, 2001 - 08:59 pm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jamaal4, i think you are a confused fellow. You started with your writing by saying >its eid day and iam very happy thus iam not going to involve in a personal argument with you< then you ended with the opposite by saying >you are not only dhadhaan but arrogant as well< Did I tell you that fools like you don't understand things clearly and what they are saying? .@LOL Dayuus is someone who says he does not believe the roasting a Somali boy alive in Somali happened when it is shown to him but believes and remembers dragging a dead American guy. ! Dayuus does not have damiir. He is like dameer. .@LOL I mentioned that you are not only dayuus, but a munaafaq, a hypocrite. You tell me that i left xishood and I talk bad to you when you are also doing the same things. Let me ask you the last time, don't you know that a Somali boy was roasted alive? Which one is worst------dragging a dead body and roasting a living being? SHAGGY Tuesday, March 06, 2001 - 12:12 pm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- SHE WAS HOT....THATS ALL I GOT TO SAY.... Anonymous Tuesday, March 06, 2001 - 12:19 pm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/p/nm/20010305/ts/mdf21501.html Anonymous Tuesday, March 06, 2001 - 12:21 pm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.stringer.it/Stringer%20Photo/images/buddha10.jpg
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| | Sunday, March 18, 2001 - 10:48 pm Anonymous no I'm not in the movie, guess I'll have to be satisfied with having played in the original. Thanks for the post though, I'm looking forward to seeing the movie when it does come out. Your report by Robert Fox and AFP is grossly distorted and most of his "facts" are completely inaaccurate. Example: US used aerial bombardment in fighting the SNA. No, the US used a single AC-130 gunship which is a precision firing weapons platform to destroy AWWS 3 & 4 just north of the city. The bodies of two US Marines were dragged through the streets. No, it was the bodies of five Army soldiers. 20 Pakistanis were killed causing the US response. No, it was 25. Only three countries (Canada, Belgium and Italy had prosecuted soldiers for crimes committed in Somalia. No, two US soldiers were convicted in seperate incidents. One, a SSG, was convicted of torturing a Somali with electric shocks after he caught the Somali stealing his walkman. He got 5 years in Leaveworth. One, an SFC, was convicted of Murder for shooting a Somali youth who stole his sun glasses. He got life at Leavenworth. For the rest of you cowboys out there, you will see mention of the book Falcon rigade by Lawrence Casper up above. That was my commander, I was his intelligence officer. I'm in his book (So I've been told, I have not yet read it), so you can find MAD MAC in the flesh in that particular piece of reporting.
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