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     | Wednesday, April 04, 2001 - 08:50 pm "Israel may have the right to put others on trial, but certainly no one has the right to put the Jewish people and the State of Israel on trial". -Ariel Sharon (quoted from BBC online.
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| | Thursday, April 05, 2001 - 10:40 am The Peace Process is dead. And I, MAD MAC, predicted it here on Islam net. Arafat can not deliver peace and neither can Sharon. Each side has to make one more MAJOR concession each - and they won't do it. The Palestinians have to acknowledge Israels right to exist. The Israelis have to acknowledge Palestinian right of return. Where return is not feasible, compensation must be paid. That's billions of dollars. It won't happen. Hence the war will go on because the people there want it to, or because they don't want peace enough to stop it. Same old story, different chapter. God knows I've seen it enough times. You know, as much as I feel for the Palestinians, I can't help thinking that their own stupidity brought them to this. And as much as I feel for the Jews, I can't help thinking their own stupidity brought them to this as well. I think the Bush administration is correct for distancing itself from this no win scenerio, we need to stop sending money to this sink-hole. Throwing good money after bad if you ask me.
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| | Thursday, April 05, 2001 - 11:11 am Ariel Sharon, Should answer The shatila massacre. Later
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| | Thursday, April 05, 2001 - 11:34 am MadMac, I agree with many of the things you've stated above, but if one thinks about what is happening in the Middle East, there was actually never any "Peace Talks." What the Palestinians need is not "Talks" but some serious actions. Which we will all be lucky enough to see happening any time soon! Israel is acting like a little immature brat thanks to "Big daddy:U.S. Government" and untill Israel either matures up or the U.S. government has a sudden attack of consience nothing about the M.E. crisis will improve.
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| | Friday, April 06, 2001 - 04:33 am MadMullah Dude, your post showed the same lack of maturity you accuse Israel of. First of all you say what the Palestinians need is acts not words. I'm not sure what you mean here. Action from the Palestinians or action from the Israelis. I could easily turn that around and say what the Israelis need are words and not acts. There is nothing the Palestinians can do in the name of active measures that will improve the situation. The more they raise the level of violence the more the Israelis will respond in kind. Since the Israeli capacity for violence is much greater than the Palestinian capacity, we end up with lots of dead people - most of them Palestinian. Even were the US to cut aid to all sides (and for political reasons that won't happen) Israel is a nuclear state. The entire Arab world can not truly defeat it. So the only way out of this is through negotiation. Since we appear to be dealing with a lot of unintelligent, emotional people here, don't count on that happening anytime soon. There is nothing the US can do to improve the sitution. US Aid is now in the "nice to have" catagory. Before Israel goes down it will take the rest of the Middle East with it in one big nuclear holocaust.
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| | Saturday, April 07, 2001 - 04:50 am MM The Palestinians recognised Israel's right to exist as part of the Oslo Accord. Neither that nor the Right to Return are actually matters that need addressing immediately, it is the cessation of building on P'inian land, the removal of the settlers from among the P'tinian populace and increasing the area under PA rule in the West Bank and Gaza. The R of R is crucial but is accepted by all sides that it could addressed on long term basis. Peace talks are not dead, in fact they never stopped talking even while they are killing each other. Sharon is in my view a War criminal who should have been indicted for the Sabra and Chatila massacres, but he is not stupid. He promised the Israeli public not to negotiate with Arafat while the Aqsa Intifada continues, but he reneged on that promise as soon as he came to power. His son Omri has been conducting high level negotiations with Arafat and the rest of the PAs. Having said thet, I firmly believe that the color of the Gov't in Israel, or the personal views of the PM makes any substantial difference to the overall situation in the conflict. Your Isolationist views are understandable but rather naive. The sheer power, numbers and clout of the Jewish lobby in USA will ensure that America is forever involved in this trouble-spot and is on the side of Israel even when level-headed economic calculations say otherwise. There are in this conflict a clear-cut Victim and Oppressor. Israel can wrap-up the whole war by simply leaving those Arab lands it illegally and forcefully occuppied in 1967. All the other issues can be addressed in later discussions. And don't fall for that nonesense about Israeli security fears. No country in the world can stop determined Terrorism, while no country in the region can confront Isreal's military might in a frontal war! So what Security fears are they on about? Your repeated accusations that the "P'tinians brought it on themselves" is understandable only when viewed from unprincipled height of neutrality. But Neutrality in the face of apparent injustice is tantamount to accepting and encouraging evil.
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| | Sunday, April 08, 2001 - 11:10 pm Galool The Palestinians have only nominally acknoeldged Israels right to exist. In fact in amongst the population (where it counts for a great deal) there is no such acknowledgement. I agree with you about the Settlers on the West Bank. They should have been removed long ago. But that can't happen now. Those settlers form one of the constituencies of the Sharon government. I still think that Peace Talks are dead for all practical purposes. Neither Sharon (who has at least a nefarious past) nor Arafat have the ability to sufficiently compromise without jeapordizing their political support. I am not truly an isolationist, but I do think it's time for us to reduce our involvement in this clusterfuck, and starting with the dollars. I agree that the Jewish Lobby is pretty strong and fairly hard to resist, aided and abetted as it is by Palestinian rioters (however righteous their position) and the deep pockets of some Jewish supporters of Israel. So in principal I agree with your position here. I am not naive on this point, I am simply stating what we should do, not what we will. I personally think our unrestricted support of Israel is a hinderance to establishing peace in the region. If you look at this conflict in a micro-scale you are right, there are clear cut oppressors and victims. But the world in so inter-related, it doesn't do the whole scenerio justice if you do that (remember for conflict resolution to be effective you must first and foremost understand your enemy, not simply dismiss his position as illegitimate). The Jews have been persecuted, unjustifiably, for centuries. That culminated with the holocaust. That provided the needed momentum rerquired for the Jews to re-establish a state in the Palestinian protectorate. The Jewish attitude was never again will that be left to the mercies of others - they will have their own state even if it's at the cost of someone else. Now, add to this psyche the religious philosophy that you are the chosen people and anyone else can be oppressed, killed, whatever because God finds has chosen you (essentially reducing others to the roles of animals) and you have the ingredients for what brought us to where we are. It doesn't justify what has happened, but it does explain it. And the Jews do have a point on the requirement for their own country. That issue has now been settled for all practical purposes. The reason that the Palestinians hate the issue of the holocaust is because they didn't cause it and now find themselves victimized by this rationale, which they want to argue as illegitimate (which it is not). The Jews can't win much in the way of a sympathy vote on that anymore, mostly because most who were victims of this time frame are now dead (if they weren't dead then). But it does provide grist for the mill concerning arumentation for the legitimacy of an Israeli State (not that I would want to live there mind you). As for terrorism, it can be stopped via two methodologies. The first is to look for ways at appeasing the population base while slowly apprehending the terrorist and their support chain. This worked in the US, for example, when dealing with the budding Black Panther movement, or in Canada when dealing with the violent wing of the Quebec Qois (Sp) movement. A terrorist wing needs a popular or government sponsor and without that, it doesn't have the staying power to continue to inflict damage. The second way is to make the execution of terrorist attacks so painful on the supporting population that the population can not or will not support the terrorists. This usually leads to something close to genocide, but did work for the Russians against the Chechnyans in the early 50s. When the Chechnyans realized that continued resistance was going to lead to all of them being rounded up and shot or sent to freeze to death in Siberia, they opted to join the home team. Israel is finding it difficult to execute either strategy with the Palestinians. The Palestinians didn't bring the whole crisis upon themselves, but they have continually, from day one of the conflict, miscalculated and provided Israel with excuse after excuse for tightening the screws. They don't understand how tenuous their position is. It certainly remains possible (though no one wants to admit it) that if sufficiently pushed the Israelis would remove the entire Palestinian population from the West Bank and push them into Jordan. This would doubtless trigger another Arab-Israeli war, but one that Israel would win. In the short term it would hurt Israel ecnomically, but they could compensate for the labor shortage created by this strategy by importing cheap labor from Russia (as they are doing now) and eventually the world would get used to this new arrangement as they got used to the old one. It would be much easier to secure a border along the Jordan river and sealing off Gaza and squeezing the population there would be childs play. I am not advocating this strategy, I think the Israelis should go for the buy out, get rid of the settlements, mollify the masses. This is the cheapest solution and also the most moral one. But you can't count the hot-heads out who think the Palestinians are a modern version of the Cannanites or something. In principal I agree with most of what you wrote, but I have a slightly different take both on what is happening, why and what the potential solutions and stumbling blocks are.
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| | Wednesday, April 11, 2001 - 12:47 pm Hey guys, This might clarify matters a bit. http://www.TheAtlantic.com/unbound/sage/ss2001-02-07.htm Or maybe not.
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| | Wednesday, April 11, 2001 - 11:16 pm PragmaticGirl Do you think the author in question is suggesting that he misses the good ol' days?? sort of like I miss being in Somalia in 93. There's something about a balls out gunfight that keeps the blood moving.
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| | Thursday, April 12, 2001 - 09:00 am A salaamu Aleikum Wa Rahamatulahi Wabarakatu Hey Galool How are you, i like what you wrote and happen to agree buddy especially with the security thing Mad Mac Dear friend. Please listen, when you speak,you should choose your words like good dates i think you add to a system in which palestinian lives are dehumanised. While you write that you have no bone in this subject, you are quite pedandic about it.Your post this time suggests that there is parity in the situation,which i think heightens a dispicable practise..Israeli retaliation for the murder of one or two lives, with the murder of perhaps 15 ... maths and racism do the rest.This is then extended to premptive "retaliation" for the presevevation of Jewish life. Fundermentaly what surfaces is a soiled blood stained thought that a Palestinain life does not equal a Israeli life. Children of a lesser God Also i think you are as you often assert very intelligent,(Allah swt knows best) however inshallah you must be careful with your terminology. The difference between a political actor and a terrorist, one must assume is the question of legitimacy, therefore, while you point out that P'tains do not recognise Isreal as legitimate, you refer to Israeli political actors in either military political ,or civilian terms. But if they have no legitmacy as a state to use coercive force against the P'tains they must be a malveanant of some sort meanwhile.. you refer to certain P'tain actors as terrorists, which would denote some level of illegitimacy to their attempts to pentetrate a political arena within a teritorial area which they have been excluded from. Seeing as their action can only become "legitimate" (and i use legitmate and not moral) through belief, and you are opposed to their legitimzation in your belief system, (although you agree with their moral position) because of their actions, i wanna know how you will give dignity to those to whom you wish to see surrender their honour? On your dealing with terrorists advice. The sword has never ruled mankinds heart..you don't kill the dream by killing the dreamer. You stop terrorists by stopping the injustice that creates them The P'tains were an educated people,the most educated of all arabs what then makes someone pack explosives on their body and get on a bus?.... CNN and the BBC think it is the "soul stirring friday sermons", but we know, its desperation, depravation and the feveror of oppression.Live in a refegee camp for 50 years and then see it bulldozered down and explain to me how you convince someone there how much pressure you will make him/her feel of any attempt they make to kill...as the mind rules the body and the heart rules at least in instances with the mind, a body numbed with pain from the heart, will not yeild to your external pressure, lets be fair here, its not as if mossad and the CIA have not tried. 200 hundred homes were destroyed today.Arab roads and Non arab roads?.. in the 21 century? Systematic apartheid and injustice, is not a situation of parity. Whatever the historical conditions of Jewry, the Israel actions against P'tains must be condemned regradless of your opinion of Islam, don't let your low opinion of Islam or historical anaylsis of Jewish -European relations blind you to human suffering Lastly your point explaining that Isreal has a greater capacity for violence is very unfortnuate for her in this situation.A great Russian criminologist (i forget his long name) argued that the actual crime is the punishment, do you think Isreal is exempt from the injustice it creates and is involved in, or that it haunts her face like a malignant cloud? I remain your friend I apologize to both of you, for the things i have said in the past
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| | Thursday, April 12, 2001 - 10:10 am Common No need to apologise. Your famous "restless" often multi-dimensional contributions have been missed badly, so is Anon's in-your-face, no non-sense irritant load of single-track opinions. In fact your gang have been taking a bashing ever since you abandoned them. FG has been holding the fort tenaciously till I managed to knock him for six with a "substantial" wealth of assistance from WGN!Just joking! Welcome back! MM I do agree with you on all your points, but I think it is important for human beings, especially those who are emotionally strong enough not to be swayed by sentimentality in their world-views to have a set of guiding principles when judging highly emotive situations - be they local, national or international. Hence my strong views about this conflict. Unlike many here, I have no animosity towards the Jews, neither have I sentimental attachment to the P'tinians. You are therefore in a very similar situation to mine regarding this perrenial conflict. Where we part is the issue of maintaining neutrality. While I can understand your position, given your military background which of course values pragmatism and rigid logical assesment of given situations, I nevertheless believe your views on the issue leave room for improvement. Simply put, one can draw a clear line between an Oppressor and a Victim here, without delving into the details of the day-to-day events of the conflict. As such, neutrality should give way to sense of justice. All the other issues you raised, valid as they are, are details.
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| | Thursday, April 12, 2001 - 10:28 am Common Man I've missed you. Where ya been? Re-read what I wrote. Remember how I said there are two ways to win an insurgency, both of which revlve around the population of the insurgents. I don't want to get caught up in a semantic war here. Terrorists or insurgents, call them what you will (in the Army we call them insurgents). The way to win (from the Israeli perspective) is to either: Break the populations will. This usually means anything up to and including genocide. Co-opt the population. Pull the rug out from under the insurgents. The Israelis aren't successfully doing either A or B. They too light handed for A and their two heavy handed for B. I agree, they need to take the long view and look at how they can honestly settle the problem. The right of return will never fly, but in accordance with the Arabic tradition of dia, a buy out should be completely feasible. I still maintain that the Palestinians are their own worst enemy and could apply much more force through non-violent protest. They will never achieve their objectives through violence - the more they resist the more the Israelis will turn up the screws. I suspect things will continue to simmer just like they have for a while. Level of violence will increase some, but not to the point of a general war. BTW certainly all lives are equal - more or less - but as a principal of reprisal when someone kills one of yours you kill 10 of his. That's what the Israelis are doing now. And they have the ability to do it. There's no point in trying to moralize any of this, the name of the game in intimidation. That's why the Israelis are targetting PLO leadership, they want the PLO leadership to understand that they are personally at risk. Hey stop apologizing to me. You ain't ever said anything evil. And frankly you are a great contributed to the forums. Hope Asad gets back pretty soon so we can have the whole gang here.
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| | Thursday, April 12, 2001 - 04:52 pm Substantial wealth of assistance lol. Galool, your antics and wild farcical exuberance of a clown with the ludicrous grey hair might cause WGN not to be here discussing with people. Trust me, it doesn't hurt me because I CAN IGNORE it. But she can't thinking I am blaming her for your twists. I suggest you grow up from this mindless wackiness you employed lately. I didn't like what you wrote to JB. Subhanallah, That really made me rethink about the whole personality of yours on top of the other points I had against you. It is unconventional and far-fetched style of trying to score points against people or to talk the way you did talk to JB more than you did talk to me. That was pure evil. I am just waiting for the last straw that breaks camel's back. Anything you offer sooner rather than later is good because I have to fold your book. You disappoint me old man. Your beahviour is really unsomali. You are wicked. Yyou reminded me of Milton's saying: "Hence, then, and evil go with thee along, Thy offspring, to the place of evil, hell, Thou and thy wicked crew! --Milton. Don't make things difficult for people odey. You disappointed me the hundredth time.
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| | Thursday, April 12, 2001 - 04:57 pm The above message was for Galool. Sorry for the distraction.
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| | Thursday, April 12, 2001 - 09:21 pm Mad Mac, one (actually more) of your ex presidents stated, "I agree fully with General Washington that we must protect this young nation from an insidious influence and impenetration. That menace, gentlemen, is the Jew. In whatever country Jews have settled in any great numbers, they have lowered its moral tone, depreciated its commercial integrity, have segregated themselves, and have not been assimilated, have sneered at and tried to undermine the Christian religion upon which that nation is founded by objecting to its restrictions, have built up a state within a state and, when opposed, have tied to strangle that country to death financially, as in the case of Spain and Portugal. For over 1700 years the Jews have been bewailing their sad fate in that they have been exiled from their homeland, as they call Palestine. But, gentlemen, did the world today give it to them in fee simple, they would at once find some reason for not returning. Why? Because they are vampires, and vampires do not live on vampires. They cannot live only among themselves. They must sub-sit on Christians and other people not of their race. If you do not exclude them, in less than 200 years our descendents will be working in the fields to furnish them substance, while they will be in the counting - houses rubbing their hands. I warn you gentleman, if you do not exclude Jews for all times, your children will curse you in your graves" Benjamin Franklin
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| | Friday, April 13, 2001 - 01:27 am Banjamin Franklin Saxib I sure hope ayou are not a Muslim, because what you wrote is most certainly a violation of Qur'anic law. In this sense, if you are Muslim, you are sinning grievously. Muslims are commanded in the Qur'an to allow others to practice their faiths free of hinderance. And your attitude is most certainly un-American. Jewish Americans are most certainly Americans. And they assimilate in America considerably better than Muslims do. Now I don't know who your quote is from, but if it's obviously a bigoted position. It's not as if I agree with every utterance of th founding fathers. They were great men, not perfect men. Jews are people just like me and you. There is nothing insidious about them or their culture. This closed minded, bigoted attitude is what has gotten us to where we are today.
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| | Friday, April 13, 2001 - 02:28 am FG Calm down old boy. You are underestimating WGN. Unlike you, people don't take life that seriously and I am sure WGN sees my teasing for what it is - just a bit of harmless fun. And god knows the forums will be dull without flashes of humour, which by the way is what WGN was attempting to introduce when she gave me this little gem of teasing H-bomb! Unfortunately for you, you just happened to be in fun world's equivalent of Hiroshima when I decided to drop it! Never mind. If it really upsets you, I will stop using it (or rather them, although you will be suffering from radiation for a while!) As for JB, well this shows partisanship of the highest order on your part. I NEVER insult anyone, but I always reserve the right to respond to any infringements against me. Now if some mindless idiot shoots his/her mouth off, I ignore it. But JB is no idiot and he has no need to travel to the gutter by acccusing me of Homosexuality and Bestiality. My posting was a response to a string of provocations from JB, who can make a point as good as anyone else here, but decided to take a trip to the gutter instead. OK I shouldn't have followed, but I would have been a target for every moron in the net to take pot-shots at me if they thought I won't respond. So believe it or not I was trying to keep this small corner of the forums as clean as possible in the long-term rather than keeping quiet now, and paying the price later. Consequently you should have addressed your comments to JB. I thought you guys subscribe to that Hammurabian philosophy of justice " Eye for an eye....and the Initiator of Evil is the more sinful" But obviously you follow the Hadith " Stand with your Brother, Aggressor or Victim" Sensible survival tool perhaps in early Arabia but not very Just or ethical is it? PS: And more thing. A simple lesson of life that will stand you in good stead in years to come. The best way to defeat teasing is to ignore it. After a while it loses its lustre and people get bored with it. By showing your irritation, you give it credence and the teasing retains a cutting-edge. Every smart school-boy knows this, but obviously not Allahi kids who weren't allowed any sense of humour? Were you an Allahi kid FG?
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| | Friday, April 13, 2001 - 03:11 am "where was I". lol. I was in Germany, and i looked for you...albeit halfheartedly
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| | Friday, April 13, 2001 - 04:23 am Galool. No, I wasn't Allahi kid. I never been to that school. I don't know why you say that!. Although the mention of it brought memories of the Allahi sing on top of the school where I used to walk by going home from downtown or from a game of football (soccer). I can't believe I forced you to be this gentle. Now I am regeretting. Seriously. Sorry if I was too harsh and insulted you or were offline in the heat of the moment. What I WAS worried is getting others involved so they have to blame themselves by thinking they caused me some displeasure. That was my concern. Otherwise, I have been putting up with your conspiracy galore in the forumss for long. You are painfully funny if I tell you the truth. You make me sin because when you down play the book of Allah and I laugh with you, it means that I don't care. But my reasons of talking to you is greater than what it appears to be on the surface. And I don't mean here that you can't express your disbelief and disapproval of islam. You know where it ends and who gets hurt at the end of the session. If JB accused you of perversion, and you seem to be unhappy about it, he needs to apologize. I for one never said anything like that to you. Anyway, ODEY, I hate seeing crying OLD MAN, Please, accept my humble apologies. Somehow you sadden me and I like you to be a muslim like us but Allah GUIDES WHOMEVER HE WILLS MAY ALLAH GUIDE YOU. I can't make a firm decision about you. I am in between hope and hate that you might reflect someday and see what made others different. I don't talk to you for the heck of it if you thought so. Later.
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| | Friday, April 13, 2001 - 07:22 am Asalamu Alaykum, Dear brother FG, I feel honored to have you in my corner, If Galool did not make those degrading comments aimed at you and WGN I would not have teased him about fantasizing. I know fully well what he meant but I thought I would play with his words and tease him, a bad route. Galool, I did not accuse you of the above deeds, I carefully selected my words and yes there were implication in my words. However, I did not initiate any of this, your attack on brother FG was an attack on me, we (beardos) call it brotherhood. So much for defending my actions….I sincerely apologize for my insinuating comments, Perhaps next time I will fight fire with water instead of fire. Mad Mac, I would not be surprised if one of the founding fathers made that comment (above). They were know angels and I’m sure these words have a lot of truth in them. Jews have a reputation for dominating the banking/lending/gambling/financial and media institutions. This rep may be true or false I don’t know for sure. I disagree with the quote because it generalizes. Common Nice write up! Preach on brother 
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| | Friday, April 13, 2001 - 04:16 pm Galool, >>"I NEVER insult anyone, but I always reserve the right to respond to any infringements against me."<< Is that so? then what do you mean by "Allahi kid"? Isn't that offensive? And what about; >>"Every smart school-boy knows this, but obviously not Allahi kids who weren't allowed any sense of humour?"<< I can see that you don't weigh what you say, since you conflict with what you write. Your anti-Islam & atheist sentiments are all over these pages and frankly speaking, they are boring me to death! This page is about the Middle East, please take your insults elsewhere! Mad Mac, >>"Jews are people just like me and you....This closed minded, bigoted attitude is what has gotten us to where we are today."<< If only half of the people in the U.S. believed that much, it would be a historic accomplishment "Oh! wise one." It's amazing that you are so willing to give your sympathy & stand up for anyone that does not associate himself with Islam, yet when the word "Islam" or "Arab" is uttered you develop a sixth sense! Is it possible that what you accuse others of is also evident in you, but is towards a different direction?
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| | Saturday, April 14, 2001 - 01:14 am Madmullah You are obviously a Canada Kid. "Allahi" was the name of a school in Mogadishu. Nothing to do with Allah.
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| | Saturday, April 14, 2001 - 01:54 am Galool, Unusual for you to drop just a line and keep low profile. Man, what happened?. Don't be shy. Say Islam isn't for you old man. I am getting worried for you not to say that. This is strange. Say something to me galool. Or you are on my side from now on and no more?. Mad Mullah. SORRY SIS. JB. You can count on me.
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| | Saturday, April 14, 2001 - 01:59 am FG Hey, "gentleness" is my middle-name, but thanks for the apology anyway. I know many will find this hard to believe, but I am not here to cause offence or pain. Yes, I do enjoy a heated a discussion and I prod and provoke in order to solicit strong reactions, but I carefully choose who I address my views to, and unless I feel they are capable of withstanding an intellectual assault, I make every attempt not to offend them. Allahi was a semi-religious school run by Egyptians and was similar in some ways to Church schools in the West where strict discipline and emphasis on "good manners" was enforced (although I know one or two rogues from among its alumni) I do debate with you for the fun of it not to change your views, and I think your attempt at trying to convert me to Strict Islam is futile(after all it is hard to teach old dog new tricks) but keep on trying. JB Your apology is accepted and given. Lets forget the whole thing and discuss issues like civilised human beings. And I appreciate your honesty in admitting you were sticking-up for a fellow beardo, because as you have seen tease-handling is not FG's forte.
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| | Saturday, April 14, 2001 - 02:08 am JB Here's, as Andy Rooney likes to say, is the rest of the story. In the Europe of the early rennaisance, the Catholic Church issued a decree saying that charging interest was a sin. Now, a bank can not make money if it doesn't charge interest. The Jews were not limited by this edict, so it made it easy for them to dominate the industry - which they promptly did. Since the banking industry is a lucrative one, the Jews came to develop economic power in Europe out of all proportion to their numbers. When one minority group develops economic or political influence out of proportion to their numbers in a given population, this breeds resentment, and people start to aportion some sort of negative charecteristic to these people to explain why this group is doing well and they are not. It was sort of a self-fullfilling prophecy, because once the Jews were doing well, they were in a good position to stay that way. MadMullah Around you guys, if I give you an inch you'll take a mile. Around my Kufaar friends I defend Islam - because they swing the pendulum the other way and brand you guys as closed minded terrorists, etc. Not everyone of course, but some, and those some need to realize that not all Muslims are fanatical, Jew-hating Idiots just as not all Jews are fanatical, greedy schemers plotting to control the world. You judge people one at a time. Sure every group has certain traits which any one of us might admire or find flawed - unfortunately you have a habit of finding flaw in all groups that are not Muslim and never extolling their virtues. And frankly I would rather live among a bunch of Latinos in P.R. than amongst a bunch of Muslims in Yemen - the Latinos have more fun and are better dancers.
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| | Saturday, April 14, 2001 - 02:10 am FG What do you want me to say? I am now terrified to say anything interesting lest I offend someone and get profound quotes from Paradise Lost or something comparing me to the devil himself! I have been reduced to a nervous wreck! I think I will just keep quiet and sulk for a while - and its all your fault! Is Madmullah is a "sis"?
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| | Saturday, April 14, 2001 - 02:49 am A salaamu Aleikum Wa Rahmatulahi WaBarakatu JB Thanks ...Brotherman, you know i represent <pulling a face pleased with myself face>.. ima preach till the end of time.lol. Galool <shaking my head>.. what am i gonna do with ya huh?.. what is "strict Islam"?.. even as i ask the question.. i sense a splurge of mental escapism emerging from you including such terms as letter and spirit Madmac My cousins are Yemeni and they can move, they have rythem...at least they call it that.My granmother was also half yemeni, other half morrocan, i am not sure what her skills were like. With all this light people in my family, you wouldn't tell, i am as black as coal. <smile> guys if we are always disagreeing on subjects why don't we focus on areas in which we can find common ground? I am not suggesting a exhausting round of small talk, in which FG and Mad Mac spar over where the best place to get value for money quality socks is , but why are things always so heated?. I know Galool would die of bordom, but Ya Allah (swt) MM is not going to decide,..or admit, that the Isrealis are inexscuable in their actions. Galool is probably not going high five the next beardo he sees in the street and joyous marry him off to his daughter and FG and JB are not brothers who by the will of Allah, are going to scratch their heads and say,Gee i wish i was a liberal humanist, lover of mankind, unexposed to demanguoes and saw the light of beauty in all beings and no longer believed in a "unforgiving God" (as a BBC reporter once described) So is arguementation the best thing for us? <ducking the items everyone is throwing at me> one love respectfully Your brother in Islam here is one suggestion. How Galool and Mad Mac Can help the somali community, by postive action for people who desperatly need our help. You guys are talented, we could inshallah channel this misguided <smile>...exuburance into good deeds. In actions, which are non-political and beneficial I mean none of us have a problem with doing good right?... we just need to stay in area in which we can all define as good and promise not to rub each other the wrong way..oh and a recognition that Islam is supreme, always.. should solve that
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| | Saturday, April 14, 2001 - 03:15 am Galool. Yes, MADMULLAH is a sis as she told us when she visited here for the first time. I am surprised you picked up the beardo label here. Tell me Old man, How does it feel to control yourself as an atheist with no bounderies and rules(OOPS, I think this is a little harsh)?. It must be too hard for you isn't it?. We shouldn't be too rough on people though I must admit. People don't accept advices through scorning and intimidation which I mostly do. However, right now I can't resist taking advantage of you while you are this tamed and would like to see how far I can test the waters. Things are in my favour. I must make sure I don't spoil the ground for me. And you can keep thinking about not offending others. Strangest of all things. Galool, don't invite me again here please. Since you are trying to be accountable for a while, I will give you a break. Later. PS: Sorry to have changed the subject.
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| | Saturday, April 14, 2001 - 03:18 am lol Common, I can sleep now. That does it for the day. Wasalaam.
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| | Saturday, April 14, 2001 - 03:46 am Common I am not sure I like the new you, it reminds me of those rather smarmy Christian evangelists selling a newly disinfected and defanged wal-mart packaged version of their Faith, which was once upon a time as prickly and vengeful as contemporary Islam. Having said that, I do accept that there many things upon which we could agree. helping people is one, and I am sure that many of us already do as much as they can and are prepared to do more. If you have any practical ideas I will pleased to hear them. I have no problems with your "Islam Rules" motto, provided it does not include me! Pray, build Mosques, Fast, sashay down to Mecca once a year, harangue Somali beach babes to cover-up, brainwash the kids and terrify them to death during long Ramadan nights(as happened to me when I was a child) annoy poor sods with bad hangovers with your electronically-enhanced Azaan at at ungodly hours - but please don't IMPOSE your believes on me. Now howzat common?
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| | Saturday, April 14, 2001 - 07:03 am Galool Howzat?... not out. Your pushing it man, your attempts to wrestle the life out me is however quite cute I can assure you i am not donning a liberal Rabbi outfit, nor a make the church fun for kids type mentality. I am just extending a arm of friendship. Why are you so cynical? sheeh kebab Few corrections people do not sashay to Mecca, they make pilgrimage, people sahay down the catwalk, i am sure you know this tough guy the Azaan does not call at ungodly hours... rather the opposite, elephant head Lastly why on earth would i impose anything on you? That reminds me of when i watched the messanger the movie, and a leading member of the Qu'raish tribe said " Islam... I am not sure I still have doubts".. Then Omar RA said "maybe we should chop your head off and then there will be no more doubts in there". (which i thought was very funny) And then came a voice of reason Bilal.. who quietly said "Omar.. there is no compulsion in religion" At which point the guy turned and said "Bilal.. the slave... always so compassionate!" and then he said the ashahada So whats it gonna be, shall we chop your head off... or shall we leave you so that one day you may utter the ashahada with conviction. On the one hand we may be accused of brutality and imposing beliefs..and on the other hand we may be accused of becoming defanged emasacated modernists. It would be a hard knock life trying to live life in the sight of your memory, thats why its wise to live life in the sight of Allah's memory L.B.W brotherman La-Ilaha Il Allah Bilaahi Walaahi <smile>
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| | Saturday, April 14, 2001 - 07:04 am FG goodnight brotherman... a email coming your way.. inshallah i promise, right after i pretend i know something about the government of South Africa
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| | Saturday, April 14, 2001 - 09:56 am Common I am stumped! I knew the God clan has some weird sense of humour, but I never realised just how weird till you said head-chopping sessions were hilariously funny! And I am sure that poor fella in Messenger said the Shahada out of pure, well considered conviction! I mean he was given lots of choices wasn't he? Like "say the shahada in two minutes or you will find yourself a head shorter" Phew! Hmm! Hard one that! Now I have long-term plans of keeping my weathered old head right on top of my shoulders, and I will say Michael Jackson did not have plastic surgery and Dubya is a super intelligent prez who knows his world - let alone something as harmless as the shahada - in order to succeed in my endeavour! I am pleased to hear you have no plans of imposing Religious rule on the Somali people. That means I will able to build my ginormous non-haram(I established that brewing is NOT haram) brewery in Jowhar, publish secular books and magazines who write whatever they like (with minimum red-lines) and open schools were religious studies is not compulsory. On your part you will have your organisations (as long as they are non-violent) and will be able to field candidates in democratic elections. If you win you form the govt. See how generous I am? If you agree with above -which is what you said in your earlier post - then we are on the same side. Lets get the baddies!!!
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| | Saturday, April 14, 2001 - 12:08 pm Gin factroy? Over your dead body, Signor Gaal-ool. You will not find yourself a head shorter because such a death will be far too painless for loathsome scum like you. Your death will be a ... well let us just keep it a secret for now eh! I know where the future leadership of Somalia is coming from. I am most reassured to have people like FG fighting to uphold the decency and morality of our community, what a great hero this man is. I usually do not join the discusions here since I do not feel I am sufficently knowledgable about the issues discussed but let me reassure you I read it regularly and find it very educational. So please keep fighting the foul human excrement that would besmirch our great religion. Nin cibaara badan laguu shuboo caadilaad tahaye Caqligu kaama suulee wadaad caadilaad tahaye Illaah haydin caawimo ducaan kuu cawilayaaye Markaa walaalow halkaa fusukha kala jahaad, maskaxdaada suuban ku burburi. Anigiyo ciidankayguna waxaanu nahay gudintaada daabkeeda. Dhaaxaa dalka fusukh lagu maamulaye Wallaahaan taa dib loogu noqonayn digniin waad qabtaan Gaal-ool iyo qudhun-ku-noosha aad futada ku wato. Caaqilada kaleen magacooda carabaabini hayga raali ahaadeen. waxaynu isku ognahay: War san, marin iyo luqun toosan.
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| | Saturday, April 14, 2001 - 02:53 pm Xoogsade. Thanks Bro. All the credit is due to Allah most high. Then those who built authentic websites where muslims can learn from their religion and find answers for almost everything they need to know. You don't need to contribute here to be educated in islam. A good word can suffice most of the time. I for one am not very educated in islam. I know where to look to find answers. The poem was really nice but too much for me lol. Now I have to harrass everybody and demand too much respect lol. I even thought running for president for a second. Take care bro and show your presence as much as you can.
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| | Saturday, April 14, 2001 - 06:55 pm FG, Thanks. What happened to Idea & TLG? I don't see them around anymore. Galool, What is the meaning of your never-ending atheist crapola? I am really fed up with it. Would you please stop your offensive campaign & stick to the topic at hand? Mad Mac, Ironic isn't it that you claim to differ with your friends about Islam and then here, you differ about Islam with the rest of us?
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| | Sunday, April 15, 2001 - 12:43 am <rolling my eyes> Yes Galool I see how generous you are
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| | Sunday, April 15, 2001 - 02:36 am I see we had a nocturnal visit from the cockraoches on the General Discussions page. Let their stench pass so that we can continue our discussions. Can't talk now as I am holding my nose!
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| | Monday, April 16, 2001 - 06:58 am Galool, here is a little encouragement for ya! I found this on the net and I couldn't help it, I thought of you and your brewery: Wine is forbidden for a Muslim here on earth: O you who believe! Strong drink and games of chance and idols and divine arrows are only an infamy of Satan's handiwork. Leave it aside that you may succeed. -- Sura 5:90 See also Sura 2:219. On the other hand in Paradise are rivers of wine: A similitude of the Garden which those who keep their duty (to Allah) are promised: Therein are rivers of water unpolluted ... and rivers of wine delicious to the drinkers. -- Sura 47:15 Surely the pious will be in bliss ... their thirst will be slaked with pure wine sealed. . -- Sura 83:22,25 Is wine good or bad? Is us forbidden on earth something that is truly good? Or is in Paradise not only allowed but provided in overflowing measures (rivers of...) something that is so bad that it is even called "Satan's handiwork"? Some people in here have predicted the future for you so isn't it good to know that you can put out the hell-fire with some delicious wine? Because there sure must be rivers of wine in hell too since it is Satan's handiwork?? 
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| | Monday, April 16, 2001 - 08:20 am You are contrasting two worlds who share NOTHINGS in common but symbolic names. if you take this way, you must think that "Paradise" in Hereafter is the same as "Paradise" in this world. Read more verses in the Qur'an, then, you will see that it's different realms. I will post some of those verses when I have the time.
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| | Monday, April 16, 2001 - 08:28 am Really, I am contrasting 2 worlds... No, I'm not, the Quran is....
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