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     | Monday, April 09, 2001 - 02:52 am Well, contrary to Asads expert boxing opinion (he told me I didn't know what I was talking about when I predicted Barrera had a good chance of beating Hamed) Marco Antonio Barrera gave Prince Naseem Hamed a sound boxing lesson. I won't go into the details here, suffice to say that Hamed lost a unanimous decision totally devoid of controversy. To Hameds credit he was very gracious in defeat - made no excuses. I will be anxious to see how he adjusts in the anticipated rematch. Did any of you watch the fight on your Haram TV?
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| | Monday, April 09, 2001 - 10:07 am There is no great fighter who did not loose a fight. I predict the next fight will be the one that decides which one of these two fighters is the best. We didn't find out the fight last night one one was the actual winner. The unanimous decision could have gone to anyone of the fighters. It was no clear victory for Barrera. How many points did they say he won, two? It is all about money. The Price and Barrera will get paid big in their next fight equally since the Price is still the man to watch.
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| | Monday, April 09, 2001 - 05:19 pm Mad Mac: I thought Hamed's pre-fight antics amusing in light of his resounding defeat. Does he do that--the fireworks, lights & trapeze acts plus the Muhammed Ali-like boasts-- before every fight?
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| | Monday, April 09, 2001 - 09:47 pm I watched the fight Are you serious? Barrera won by scores of 116-112 and two cards had it 115-112 (Barrera had one point deducted in the last round for his wrestling antics). It was a unanimous decision and it WAS clear cut. It was not a close fight. Maybe you're not a big fight fan so you don't know how to score a fight. Even Hamed admitted after the fight that he was outboxed. And the compubox numbers backed that up. Hamed was simply unable to land cleanly and Barrera dictated the entire course of the fight. It was a clean win. However, I agree the rematch will test the mettle of both of these guys. Hamed knows he will have to make adjustments, so the question will be can he adjust his style (he certainly has the physical ability - no question there) and how will Barrera respond to such adjustments. Pragmaticgal Yep, that's typical Hamed. It's not always a trpez, sometimes it's something else. He usually flips himself over the top ring rope but he left that little stunt out this time. Hameds ring persona is totally obnoxious, but his persona outside the ring, if you see him in interviews, is OK. I think he acts like a jerk as some sort of method of self-promotion, and you can't argue with him there, he has been financially very successful.
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| | Tuesday, April 10, 2001 - 07:43 am Hey, I agree with the person who said every great fighter looses a fight once or twice. Usually, the rematch decides who is the undisputed title holder. Sometimes fights are fixed to make money. If Barrera would have lost, rematch would not have made that interesting and the money would be less, but since the guy who lose is the one people hate to loose and since he is the one the brings people to watch the fight, he sometimes looses fights to make money for himself and others. I think Hamad is going through religious experience, but religion and boxing do not mix. I think Hamad wants to retire with big pay. He does not want to fight any more after this. He had made more than enough. He does not need to fight. He has gotten lessons from many great fighters like Ali and others.
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| | Tuesday, April 10, 2001 - 08:07 am http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/yosemitedr/naseemhamed/Naz-pics.html http://www.zyworld.com/naseem/
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| | Tuesday, April 10, 2001 - 09:59 am I am so disappointed! period!
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| | Tuesday, April 10, 2001 - 11:21 pm Kamal Religion and boxing don't mix? Exactly what the •••• does religion mix with?? Jesus Christ now boxing is un-Islamic!!!!! You ever hear of Mohammed Ali?? Now that guy was pretty damn religious and yet he loved to box, he lived to box. And the Islamic community has completely embraced him. Hellooooo? Anyone home there? Some of you guys just love to label something un-Islamic - it's like a full time profession. As for the fight itself, are you saying that Hamed deliberately tanked the fight so he could get a rematch?? He hurt is marketability UNLESS he wins a rematch against Barrera. Barrera is tough and a damn good fighter. A win is by no means a certain thing. And Hamed still has three other very tough customers in the division to fight if he wants to establish himself as an all time great - he's got to beat Tapia, Morales and Espadas - and of course now Barrera. I admit that one fight does not a career make, and certainly Hamed has a chance to bounce back, but let's not pretend that this is just some sort of financial ploy on his part. He has put three big money fights at risk if it is. Mystic K. Why are you dissapointed? It was a good fight. Sure it turned out to be more of tactical bout than most observers anticipated, I expected Barrera to throw more lead rights and press the action when he had Hamed hurt, but he fought a smart fight. When Hamed is hurt that's when he's most dangerous (witness the Augie Sanchez bout). Has that trait like Marciano did. But I wouldn't say it was a disappointing bout. It was a good solid fight. How many of those fights have you paid big bucks to watch and they turn out to be crap?
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| | Wednesday, April 11, 2001 - 11:53 am If boxing is Islamic, entertainment like music, dancing, movies is Islamic. Everytime any person who is a famous Muslim does something like boxing, dancing and whenever he enterains people, he earns rewards. HHEHEHEHEH
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| | Wednesday, April 11, 2001 - 12:04 pm The prophets of Allah fought fights and some of these fights they won and some of them they lost. Hey, some of these Prophets were killed in the line of duty when they were fighting, but they didn't do these fights for money and for fame and they didn't entertian people whenever they went to fight. They fought for Allah. Was Mohamad Ali and Hamad fighting for Allah and whenever they entertained people with their antics, were they earning rewards from Allah? HEHEHEHHEHE
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| | Wednesday, April 11, 2001 - 11:08 pm LOL don't be a moron. According to your logic ANYTHING that doesn't directly relate to our immediate health or worshipping Allah is haram. Since the Qur'an does not forbid us in doing thinks for pleasure, something must be wrong with your logic. In fact, based on your logic the Eid festival is haram, because it's excessive. A simple meal following Ramadan would suffice to fill our nutritional needs. And sex for any purpose other than pro-creation is haram - whether you are married or not. And any sporting activity is haram since it's not neccessary to stay healthy (exercise at home would suffice). Any form of play - games, etc. must be haram, because you are neither worshipping Allah nor doing anything to improve your physical well being. I could go on but you get the point. What are trying to do, create the most dour environment possible for humans to live in????
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| | Wednesday, April 11, 2001 - 11:44 pm Mad Mac i am not certain wether violent sports are haraam or not for i have not yet read anything that directly address it! but i would like to say i myself am involved in semi-contact violent sports and i have seen many muslims involved in it. Infact the most agressive fighters i have seen to date are Iranians and afganistanians. I am not sure wether you can class sports as a haraam for sports can improve your health...If that was the case i would have nothing to do every evening!
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| | Thursday, April 12, 2001 - 02:26 am Hey MAD, something to ponder about boxing in islamic view, what is and what isn't allowed: Question: My local mosque is thinking about setting up boxing classes. I wanted to know whether this is permissibile. The reason being that is there not a hadith of the Prophet (SAW) where he sees two men wrestling/sparring and he tells them to avoid the face for we have been created in the likeness of Adam (AS)? According to this, is it mub'ah to practice boxing with another brother and hit one another in the face? Answer: Praise be to Allaah. The Islamic sharee’ah permits all things that are beneficial to the body and do not harm it, and it forbids all things that may cause damage or harm to the body. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Your body has rights over you.” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, Kitaab al-Sawm, 1839) If sports are free from things which are forbidden in sharee’ah, then practising those sports is beneficial. Boxing is an ancient sport that was practised by the Greeks. Boxing is the worst kind of sport, and probably it does not even deserve to be called a sport, despite the fact that western nations, in particular – where boxing is widespread at a professional level – call it “the noble sport” and a form of self-defence. They forget, or overlook, the fact that the main aim of boxing is to harm one's opponent and throw him to the ground, preferably with the “decisive blow” (or “knock-out”), as they call it, which is the highest level of victory in boxing. “Many voices have been raised in the parliaments of many countries demanding a ban on professional boxing, in view of the harm that has been caused to many boxers. Sweden has succeeded in imposing such a ban, whilst many other nations have failed to do so, despite the many injuries, and even deaths, caused to many professional boxers as a direct result of this violent sport. The fact of the matter is that the deaths of so many boxers is the reason for many voices calling for an end to this sport, or at least the imposition of strict rules to limit its violence.” (From Huna London magazine, issue # 413, March 1983). Dr. Roger Whirty, the spokesman of the British Medical Council in Wales, spoke of the aims of the Council’s campaign against boxing: “We want to show everyone that boxing is an extremely dangerous sport, not only because of the increasing number of fatalities, but also because of the disabilities which affect many more times that number. In order to achieve that, we are trying to put pressure on various official bodies to condemn this sport, and not to consider it to be a sport at all. I reiterate once again that the danger of this sport lies in the harm caused to hundreds of boxers as a result of the disabilities that they suffer. The number of boxers who have died as a result of injuries sustained in boxing between 1945 and 1983 is three hundred and fifty.” (From Huna London magazine, issue # 413, March 1983). The Islamic attitude towards this sport: The principles of Islam are completely opposed to the idea of the ummah accepting this dangerous deviation as a moral or intellectual trend which would permit such violent fights between members of the ummah or of the human race as a whole. Among these principles we may list the following: 1. Harm. We have already mentioned the harm and danger to human life involved in this sport, and the testimony of western specialists who are motivated by their humanitarian feelings to fight and strive to eliminate boxing from the international sporting lexicon. 2. Violating the sanctity of the face. Boxing is based on allowing punches to the face of one's opponent using the maximum force that one possesses. Blows to the face earn more points than blows to any other part of the body. This clearly goes against the teaching of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), as narrated by Abu Hurayrah: “When any one of you fights, let him avoid (striking) the face.” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, al-Fath, 5/215). Al-Haafiz said: “This prohibition also includes all those who are struck for the purpose of hadd or ta’zeer punishments or discipline. According to the hadeeth narrated by Abu Bakrah and others, which was recorded by Abu Dawood and others, about the woman who had committed adultery, the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) commanded that she should be stoned to death, and said, ‘Stone her, but avoid the face.’ (Narrated by Abu Dawood, 4/152). If that is the command in the case of one who is being punished and is going to die anyway, then the rule is even more applicable in cases of lesser severity.” See al-Fath, 5/216 Al-Nawawi said: “The scholars said: it is forbidden to strike the face because it is soft and all of a person's beauty and most of his senses are located there. If the face is hit, there is the fear that all or some of them may be destroyed or disfigured. Any defect in the face is a terrible thing because it is so prominent and obvious, and usually the person who is hit in the face will not be spared some disfigurement.” (al-Fath, 5/216). In al-Fath, he says concerning the specific prohibition narrated in the hadeeth: “Al-Nawawi did not discuss the details of this prohibition. It is clear that it is haraam, and this is supported by the hadeeth of Suwayd ibn Maqran al-Sahaabi, that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) saw a man slap a slave (or a boy) in the face, and he said, “Do you not know that the face is inviolate?” (Muslim, 3/1280. Qadaaya al-Lahw wa’l-Tarfeeh, p. 373 (www.islam-qa.com) MAD, I know you love the sport, but let us face it, Not everybody can watch these fights saxib, I FOR ONE DON'T HAVE THE STOMACH TO WATCH. Somehow I can't look at someone being hit and getting bruised. It takes a lot of gutts to watch and I did may be once or twice. I would learn karate or boxing for self defence though. Just like I would learn nything that helps and sharpens my skills of defence. Let me know what you think about the islamic perspective of the issue. And no "F" word please.
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| | Thursday, April 12, 2001 - 02:34 am As Muslims we have a lot to be proud of with the noble art of boxing. First to capture the imagination of Muslims was Muhammad Ali who single-handedly changed the face of boxing into the commercial success and carnival it is to today. He was the Muslim gladiator of his time, even though he was aligned with the heretical Nation of Islam. Not knowing his relgious leanings, the sense of pride felt by the Muslims when he defeated a non-Muslim opponent was universal. More recently we have Mike Tyson, Chris Eubank and I suppose, the Yemeni, Prince Nassem Hameed (who tries to imitate the showmanship of Muhammad Ali and fails miserably) who continue to give Muslims a sense of pride in this sport. But as Muslims should we really enjoy and participate in boxing? I must admit up until recently I loved the sport, I enjoyed watching my favourite boxer knock out his opponent and used to get into the atmosphere created by the pre-match hype. I used to pour scorn on those who wanted boxing banned, what right did they have in banning such an exciting and exhilarating sport? I remember watching Chris Eubank and Michael Watson fight in which Michael Watson lost not only the fight but his quality of life, for he was left a vegetable confined to a wheelchair and with severe brain damage. This upset me greatly, as before my very eyes a healthy and able bodied man who could stand against anyone was now reduced to someone incapable of fending for himself physically and mentally. This would not be the only time I would see a good man reduced to a vegetable for sometime later the boxer Gerald McClennan suffered the same fate. Infact he was in a coma and it was feared that he would not survive. Fortunately he did survive, but was it really living? As he was brain damaged for life? It was after this incident that I started to think about boxing and its validity, not only as a sport, but as a sport sanctioned by Shari'ah. I am no scholar but given the evidence boxing must be a sport that the Shari'ah cannot justify. Some time ago, with the Bruno-Tyson fight I noticed a lot of interest by friends and family in the fight. During the pre-match hype my mind went into overdrive thinking about boxing and Islam and increasingly I was abhorred by boxing. Looking at the evidence against boxing, it is not hard to realise that boxing must be considered haraam (forbidden) or undesirable to the point of being haraam (Makruh al-Tahrim). The object of boxing is knocking an opponent unconscious by physically hitting him with excessive force about the head, the intent is physical damage to your opponent. At the end of all fights that I have seen, the face is left severely damaged and scarred, we know from ahadith that the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) forbade hitting the face: Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "If somebody fights (or beats somebody) then he should avoid the face." [Sahih al-Bukhari Vol III Hadith 734.] and also Narrated Salim: Ibn 'Umar said, "The Prophet forbade beating (animals) on the face." [Sahih al-Bukhari Vol VII Hadith 449] So we know that the word "forbade" here seems to indicate that this action is haraam when done to animals and humans are above animals in all respects. When the damage to a person is so severe such as brain damage or worse, fatal, then this has to be considered haraam, for their is no reason to suffer such injuries. Our bodies and lives are an amanah (trust) from Allah ta'ala given to us for safe keeping, they do not belong to us to do as we choose, so we have no right to participate in a sport whose object is intense physical damage or any other activity that violates the amanah. It is sad to see such people as Muhammad Ali, who once "floated like a butterfly and stung like a bee" now floating like a brick and stinging like a cotton bud, Muhammad Ali once one of the finest examples of masculinity coupled with charisma and elegance, an object of pride for the entire Muslim Ummah, now an object of pity and a distant memory of bygone glory. Ironic isn't it considering the current downtrodden predicament of our Ummah? Should a man have to be reduced to this through his own doing? As for Muhammad Ali I still have love and respect for him as a Muslim, and recently their was a documentary about him on BBC2 in a series called "Reputations", it occured to me that here was a man who had so much more than boxing to offer the world and the Ummah, a man principled enough to stand by his beliefs no matter what the consequences, a spokesperson for the oppressed, a voice that would always be heard. As a Muslim one cannot help but feel drawn to such a remarkable and likeable character and, alhamdulillah, he entered the fold of orthodoxy in the early 80's. If anyone wishes to read about Muhammad Ali then his biography has been available for quite sometime, it is called "Muhammad Ali: His Life and Thoughts" by Thomas Hauser and is well worth reading. Any parent whose child takes an interest in boxing should bear the severe dangers in mind and consider answering for their decision on the Day of Judgement, since our children are also an amanah from Allah ta'ala. The physical training offered by boxing is excellent and children should be encouraged into physical exercise. Rather than encourage them to do boxing parents should encourage children to learn semi-contact Karate or Kung-Fu, since the object of semi-contact is not physical damage but to score points by minium contact, anyone one using excessive force is penalised. Semi-contact Kung-Fu and Karate also teach vital self-defence techniques that are needed in an increasingly violent society and parents should instill discipline and good adab (manners) in their children not to show off the skills they may have learned.
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| | Thursday, April 12, 2001 - 02:53 am Mystic.K, I thought sufis were against voilence and they are for loving and peace making!
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| | Thursday, April 12, 2001 - 03:29 am  It is because i love other humans i have learned the art of self defence my human kin or khit. I try to enhance every aspect of my being[mental,physical,spritual & emotional]. I took up the art several years ago while at university and all my tournaments accured during that period! The art i am involved employs total body protection and not a single soul has lost their life as a result of this sport. As mensioned above by well informed muslims it is about point scoring and not about knocking anyone out. The actual win is determined by speed and skill not brute force as in boxing. There is no age limit, reason being it is that safe! The best fights to watch are those of the 8-12year olds they have the best flexibility and never giveup, even when they are crying they continue to compete till the end. All my children will insha allah be trained. We don't do it for money or other status but for the simple fact that it is an art and more about the expressing and showing your skills. great way to keep fit and learn coordination. Drastically enhances your life in terms of confidence, determination, focus and commitment... ..... <--- who ever you are i'd like to remind you that much of these type of arts where invented by spritual men Like the "monks"[Shoalin] so fort...Harmonising the body and mind to work together like a single entity is very hard to achieve and if this has aided me why would you think it is anti anything??? When did i graduate from Sufi school i wonder?
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| | Thursday, April 12, 2001 - 06:02 am Formerguest First of all, look at LOLs response and then mine to his. He was maintainng that anything you do that is not related toimproving your diin is haram - and that's not true. Now, as for boxing it is certainly controversial for the points you've mentioned. Here's my position (frankly I don't care if it's considered haram or not, that doesn't affect me). No one is forced to box. I boxed for 10 years. No one made me go through the ring ropes. If we banned everything that was hazerdous we would ban all sports, parachuting, car racing, etc., etc. Far more of Americas youth is injured and killed every year playing football than boxing. Boxing is dangerous but not widely so. There are many safety measures in the sport that minimize it's dangers, esspecially in the amatuer game. Since people who participate and watch are all doing so of their own volition, I believe that this is one of those things that the state has no business trying to ban. The idea that you can ban something other people like because you don't approve (even if the majority doesn't approve) is tyranny and condescending. As if I can't make up my own mind what risks I'm willing to take and which I am not willing to take and therefore the State has to decide for me. If you let it, the State will be happy to make all of your decisions for you.
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| | Thursday, April 12, 2001 - 10:22 am Boxing and Islam, nice writing.
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| | Thursday, April 12, 2001 - 10:24 am Here we go again... You guys always manage to turn everything into a question about right and wrong according to islam. And you don't even know the answer yourself, you have to search the net to find it! And on top of that you don't even agree with each other.... :-)))) why is it so difficult or dangerous to have an opinion of your own? Why not just say, I don't like boxing because it is a violent sport or I like it because it's a way of self-defence. Or whatever. Do you have to ask Allah for permission to pee as well?? Uhm, let's see, what was the question again...oh yes, "Asad, did you watch the fight"... I watched the fight too. Barrera got many good hits, especially in the first rounds.....it was rattling good in Naseem's jaw...heheh!
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| | Thursday, April 12, 2001 - 11:50 am If Mohamad Ali or any other fighter or any other Muslim singer does his thing, does that make it good?
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| | Thursday, April 12, 2001 - 12:02 pm Is professional boxing for the sake of Islam allowed? Wasalam Asalam o laikum I am writing on behalf of an brother (born and brought up in UK) living here in the UK. This brother had a successfull amateur boxing career (fighting for England etc) and had many offers to become a professional boxer. He stopped boxing as he became a practising muslim and was told that it was Haram. If it is allowed then this brother would like to further his boxing career in the name of Islam by becoming world champion and donating all his money to islamic causes and raising awareness etc. Answer According to Shari’ah, one may engage in sports activities to enhance good health or preparation for Jihaad. Both the facts are not found in boxing. In fact, boxing is a danger to health and life. Many boxers have lost their lives in the ring due to head injuries. The icon of boxing, Muhammad Ali, who also has the honour of the only boxing professional to regain the heavyweight title three times is presently suffering from Parkinsons and many others sicknesses due to his career. It is not permissible to engage in any activity that will endanger one’s health. According to Shari’ah, boxing as a sport is not permissible. The income will be Makrooh.
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| | Thursday, April 12, 2001 - 03:57 pm The question wasn't addressed to me but no I didn't watch the fight. But naseem will always be the best in his division in my heart. He's got the style the looks the talent aaaand the roots.
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| | Thursday, April 12, 2001 - 05:30 pm Hello all! I don't know who stabbed me in the back here, but the poor thing did a lousy job... The "WGN" above isn't me. I don't care about boxing and I certainly don't care about who you talk to before you pee... Sorry about that!
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| | Friday, April 13, 2001 - 01:21 am #1 Fan. The roots?? Are you telling me Yemen is a boxing Mecca??? That's news to me. He is the only Yemeni boxer I've even heard of. Anyway, I personally like Tapia, a true technician, and I think he wouold beat Hamed as well. But only time will tell for sure. Hamed is exciting in the ring, no denying that. Interesting and unique stylist. .............. Let's talk about Ali for a moment. Ali loved to fight. He lived for the ring. He was born to do it. Now, there's no reason to feel sorry for Ali. He loves being Mohammed Ali. He gets a voice that you and I don't get and he got that voice through boxing. If he had not been a famous fighter he'd be just some guy with a big mouth that no one would listen too. But because of boxing, he's one of the most recognized personalities in the world today - and a great voice of Islam. All sports entail danger or are haram is some way if you take the narow view. Runners have to wear skimpy, light weight attire - no hijabs for women, and men are not suppose to be displaying their bodies either. Furthermore runners have a high risk of heart attacks while running (like Flo Jo). I run as part of my Army requirements and we always have a guy die every year from heart failure - sometimes even young guys. Football is a tough contact sport that results in numerous fatalities and a lot of debilitating injuries, esspecially knee injuries, every year. Soccer produces a large number of permanent knee injuries and does tennis. Then we have Baketball - simply brutal on the knees. Parachuting can be dangerous and every year experiences a few fatalities. I could go on and on, but you have the idea here. Very few recreational activities are risk free. And if there is a small risk - philosophically (or as far as the Qur'an is concerned) what's the difference then between that and a somewhat higher risk? If you say boxing is haram you must conclude that all sporting activity is haram.
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| | Friday, April 13, 2001 - 06:47 am Boxing is not a risk it's just killing; BANG BANG...... You just survive it by chance, where in other sports you get hurt by chance. That is why probably they called it controvetial sport. Kick-boxing banned because it's worst than boxing.
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| | Saturday, April 14, 2001 - 02:15 am Anonymous You ever box??? I boxed for 10 years and I never got killed. Not once. Neither did any of my frinds. We all boxed for years and a very competetive level, and we never got killed. Boxing is a sport, people like to play with the word because they want to make boxing illegitimate and the word sport gives the appearance of legitimacy. It's a symantics game used by those who don't like the nature of boxing. I reiterate, if you don't like it don't do it and don't watch it, but don't try and prevent me from doing the same. I don't like Balet and I think this form of culture is unheathly for society because it breeds elitists which I despise, but it doesn't mean I think it should be banned.
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| | Saturday, April 14, 2001 - 06:54 am NASEEM HAMED IS DA BEST!!! that is all I got to say......BTW Mr. Mad Yemen has been known to produce some of the best ppl in the world and a perfect example is ma hero.
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