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     | Unrecorded Date Waa sheeko socota - continuation from: About AHMED from free-minds (the submitters) Sheyaadiinta Casriga !!! http://somalinet.com/forums_archives/39/2856.html
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| | Unrecorded Date Asalama Alaykum! WELL, I'm glad you're around to help!(I was thinking of doing it myself!) :) ...also, why don't you close(but make it available to read)...because people will out-of-orderly post there! Ta-Ta! Thanx much, Peace, Ahmad!
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| | Unrecorded Date Ahmed. You are a funny guy too. A comidian if you will. I am still waiting your say about MUSLIMS being muskhrikiin by praying for the prophet at the end of the prayers.
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| | Unrecorded Date Asalama Alaykum! Bashir, I told you, Bashir...i'm not available to debate with you UNTILL you finish my post to you regarding Jesus' status of coming back, etc. I don't believe people should "SKIP"...debates. You're either in or out; currently, since you haven't told me that you read it or anything, your status in my debating with you is UNAVAILABLE! OH, and i'm a funny guy??? HA! Well, I should take your Award---and after fasting all day, go with some `Jinns and party until I puke! AHMAD: "I wanna thank all of the comedy party, i wanna thank my observer, the fans and the CO. Oh, i'm so speechLESS I don't know what to say, devdujach!"...runs back to the stage; "OH, silly me, I forgot; I WANNA THANK THE ACADEMY!" Ramadan Mubarak to all those who believe! Peace, Ahmad!
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| | Unrecorded Date Hi Ahmed. Well, I told you, you were funny. I was not being sarcastic but the way you write your language deserves a mention. Let us not sanction each other. I honestly want to avoid your judgement. There is brotherhood and islam at stake. Just convince me that SALLI in the prayer is shirk and why?..
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| | Unrecorded Date Waxaa laga hayaa Axmed inuu yiri: ....Xadiisku wax ma xarimi karo, quraanka kaliya ayaa wax xarimi kara ayaa lagaa hayaa.... ....Meelo kale waxaa lagaa hayaa Abaa Hureyra raaci maayo, been buu sheegay ama laga sheegay..asagoon marnaba daliil u haysan doodahiisa... ....Waxaa kaloo lagaa hayaa khilaafid uu khilaafey xataa salaadii Nabiga... ....Waxaa kaloo lagaa hayaa salaama naqsiga looga baxayo salaada waxuu u duceyaa qofka midig/bidix kaa fadhiya, balse Suubanihii salaada waa u diidey in uu salaada dhesdeeda Allaah ugu baryo... ....Waxaa kaloo lagaa hayaa inuu ku tilmaamey dadkii saliga Ibraahimiyada AQRIYAA waa dad Mushrikiin...(Subxaanallaah)! ....Waxaa kaloo lagaa hayaa in heesuhu banaan yihiin... ....Waxaa kaloo lagaa hayaa xayeeysiin/faanin yahuud markasta sheekadiisa ku daro...wax uu ula jeedo & macna aay sheekada ku suubineyso ayadoon jirin???? ....Waa aay badan yihiin oo aay badan yihiin waxa lagaa hayo...ISLAAMNIMADANA waa looga baxaa sidan, islaamnimadiisa shaki ayeey ku jirtaa. Naf quusatey (dhunsan) ayuu sidaa, balse loo sheeg, daliil loo keen dhegba uma furna. Dadkan oo dhana waa dad walaalahiis ah oo ka naxaya kulana rabo kheyr balse AXMED waa sii fogaanayaa. GABAGABO: Illaah XAQA ha tuso, hana hanuuniyo haddii uu XAQ raadis yahay, haddiise uu XAQ raadis aheyna Allaaah (swt) ha qabto, qabasho ADAG!, waayo fitno (bidcinimo) ayuu ummada la dhexjoogtaa.
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| | Unrecorded Date AAMIIN,AAMIIN,AAMIIN. WAAD MAHADSANTAHAY ANSAARI. ISAGANA(AHMED) RABBI HADEEYO INTA SHAYAADIINTU XIDH XIDHANYIHIIN. WAXAAN U ARKAA INUU MID UMMADDA WAREERINAYA YAHAYE.
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| | Unrecorded Date salaamu calaykum, yaa ikhwati filcaqiida; Ninka saligii Nabiga aan ku heshiin weynay, Islam-ka intiisa kale tolow siduu u arkaa? Islam ku ma cibaado qura miyaa? ma camal qura?ma xukunbaa? Arimaha waaweyn ee mabaa'didda Islaamku ku dhisan tahayse tolow "Khuraafaadlayaashu" Siday u arkaan.
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| | Unrecorded Date Asalama Alaykum! Bashir, Islam and Brotherhood is never at any stake; I do recognize you as a Muslim and respect you for being a Muslim. I do not need to judge you or ridicule you, in anyway! You're my brother in Islam...and that is never an issue. HOWEVER, that doesn't mean...that I need to have a one-sided debate with you! NO, NO, and 1000 times NO! You and I were debating...to skip that when it suits you is a very UN-debating take...and I have nothing to do with it. If you think you can just ignore part of the debate...and then come back for some, then you're gravely mistaken! Trust me...I have made that mistake with others here...AND, you can trust me when I tell you, that I learned my lesson! It's an "in..." or "...out!" Ramadan Mubarak to all those who believe! Peace, Ahmad!
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| | Unrecorded Date Ahmed. Everybody cares owing to his/her intention. Your view interest me very much as to why and how they came into being. You opposed the norms and said something worth attention. Now if you think though I am at fault you are welcome to voice your opposition. Unless you are telling me that you are right and I am wrong. I have a list of questions derived from your comments here. Even the one that you want me go back and read is printed but there are others that urgently need hammering out. I am not interested in lampasting you or anybody for that matter. Just to perform my prayers according to islam and how the prophet taught them. Well, if you think you can do that fine but if you insist on just bieng stabborn that is fine too. The faith of the person is not guaranteed that it will be forever. There are things that invalidate it. Tawhiid needs continous protection from harms and if not attended it goes out the window. IBLIIS was ahlu tawxiid too, just refused an order and ran out of lack.
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| | Unrecorded Date Asalama Alaykum! Bashir, You're right...Iblis WAS ahlul-tawhid; a paste tense. Today, a Muslim who believes that "there is no god except God, and that Muhammad(pbuh) is a Messanger of his" is a ahlul-tawhid...while a person who believes only "there is no god but God" is not ahlul-tawhid. Because, being an ahlul-tawhiid depends on the last object God points as from Him. As for what the Prophet taught, with the Qur`an, one can know that, perfectly! If nothing else, take it from me that the Qur`an is a Book of proof. It literally has every thing in Islam. Its teaching maybe over-looked...but it's all there. Man does over-look things. Small and big things; but God bears witness that the Qur`an has every example for us. Who is more truthful than God? NONE! Every history, every hadith...can be proofed through the Qur`an. In history books, we read that there were Pharoahs from the Time of Abraham to that time of Moses. YET, the Qur`an always tells us the only time that there was "Pharoah" was the time of Moses. The idea that there were Pharoahs is derived from the Bible...which its authors are "annonymous!" The Egyptian Oral-History agrees with the Qur`an. As for your questions, Insha Allah, I will have plenty of time this weekend, so post all of your Qs. And I will answer as much as I can! Ramadan Mubarak to all those who believe! Peace, Ahmad!
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| | Unrecorded Date Ahmed. At the appointed time god willing. As for the agreement of the Quran with specific subjects or histories the PROPHET Said"in it, you find the history of past nations,the ruling amongst you, the news of what is to come". In light of that, we don't need to rely on anything except the legitimate islamic sources. Let us stop giving any importance what so ever the bible and the previous books okey!! why? because of these verses "And because of their breaking the covenant, We have cursed them and made hard their hearts. They change words from their places and have abondaned a good part of the message that was sent to them. And you will not seize to discover deceit in them, except a few of them. But forgive them and overlook(their misdeed). Verily ALLAH loves the kindly". QURAN al-ma'idah..... So we are better off without these thugs and their so called bible. The quran teaches respect for the previous revelations but does not give a dime of reliance of what is there. I am allergic to the bible after I saw what I saw in it. With due respect you and me should only use the quran and when found the explanation given by the prophet. This is an advice not a dictation Mr Ahmed. And we will talk at the time you said you have enough time.
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| | Unrecorded Date Asalama Alaykum! Bashir, XCUSE ME...but we DO need to quote the Bible when it agrees with the Qur`an. Doesn't it agree with the Qur`an that People made Hajj to Makkah before Muhammad(pbuh)???? Doesn't it agree with the Qur`an that Muhammad is the Prophet(pbuh) of Allah? Doesn't it agree with the Qur`an that Salat was established the nations before us??? You're allergic to the Bible??? WHY??? Because it confirms with the Qur`an that Islamic Practices existed before Muhammad(pbuh)??? Please, say you're not interested in the Truth, then we'll not have anything to talk about! BUT, don't use that old trick on me! I have been there before...and it worked(but only for a while!) I am a Muslim...who, WHOLE-HEARTEDLY, believes that anything but the Qur`an for religions are corrupted to the core! But, that is what it is; CORRUPTED! Not gone to ashes! The Bible has ALOT of what God tells us in the Qur`an. By checking it with the Qur`an, you will see that the Bible is really corrupted...but you also see that there is a good Book of God in it(because it agrees with God in the Qur`an!) Muslims ALWAYS did this; dis-regard history and the past nations...and say "NO, lets stick with this!" Xcuse me, but that is manipulation! SO, please, tell me the difference between those and those who said; "NO, we'll believe only what was revealed to us!"...ONCE again, the Qur`an is full of wisdom, but is anyone listening??? The Qur`an does not give a dime of reliance of what is there??? XCUSE ME, AGAIN! LOOK at the following verses; "2.41 And believe in what I reveal, confirming the revelation which is with you, and be not the first to reject Faith therein, nor sell My Signs for a small price; and fear Me, and Me alone." "2.91 When it is said to them, "Believe in what Allah Hath sent down, "they say, "We believe in what was sent down to us:" yet they reject all besides, even if it be Truth confirming what is with them. Say: "Why then have ye slain the prophets of Allah in times gone by, if ye did indeed believe?" "7.157 "Those who follow the messenger, the unlettered Prophet, whom they find mentioned in their own (scriptures),- in the Law and the Gospel;- for he commands them what is just and forbids them what is evil; he allows them as lawful what is good (and pure) and prohibits them from what is bad (and impure); He releases them from their heavy burdens and from the yokes that are upon them. So it is those who believe in him, honor him, help him, and follow the Light which is sent down with him,- it is they who will prosper." These and more are in the Qur`an telling us and the People of Torah and Gospel...what is with them and how there are things to CONFIRM in their books! So, XCUSE me...but lets get REAL and HONEST! Scholars of the past and the present FORBID(nearly) for us to read the Bible! I always wondered why...UNTIL I read it! Because, it confirms with the Qur`an things that will NULL their some so-called "hadiths!" HELL, even some hadiths null many of other hadiths! Islam is a barrier of a Truth, Bashir! No Bible or any other book can null it. The Qur`an is full of everything man needs to stay on the safe-side of the road! To it, everything is proofed or disproved! I'll quote the Bible ONLY when it agrees with the Qur`an. I do not quote the Bible when it does not agree with the Qur`an. To me, anything that do NOT agree with the Qur`an is not even worth mentioning(may it be the Bible or Western History or the Hadiths, etc!) So, if you are seeking the Truth and not just trying to cover the Truth, you have nothing to worry about regarding the Bible; God gave you a Book of Proof, the Qur`an. It's a gift from God to be knowledged and out of darkness! I'm very sure you will agree with me when I say; it's the Best Book! Ramadan Mubarak to all those who believe! Peace, Ahmad!
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| | Unrecorded Date bashir is correct in saying that there is nothing we Muslim need from the bible. i read some where that one time a man came to the prophet, i think he was omar ibnu khitab. he was carrying or reading the book of the jewish. the prophet said to him neither confirm nor deny what is in the jewish book or the ahlu kitaab books. so we have no need for us in the books of bible or torah. we do not need their conformation or their rejection of what God said. so, it does not matter if the bible confirms the truth of God or not, bashir is right by saying that there is nothing of importance in the bible for us, except to know that there are some corrupted saying in that book.
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| | Unrecorded Date therefore, the bible can't confirm or deny the quran or hadeeth. it is the other way around. the quran is the book that conforms or contradicts the hadeeth or any other books, be it the bible or torah. whoever used the bible to confirm or deny the hadeeth is wrong. i mean, who will take the bible's saying over hadeeth sayings, a muslim?!!!
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| | Unrecorded Date when i said we know that there are some corrupted sayings in that book of the bible. we know that because the quran said so. the prophet said to that man: do not take what the ahlu kibaab books say as the truth nor deny it. so if the culumas(the scholars of islam) of yesterday, like umar ibnu khitab, were forbidden to confirm or validate what is in the bible, why ahmed is taking now the bible's saying over the hadeeth's sayings?
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| | Unrecorded Date i mean do you go to the bible to confirm the hadeeth? !!!
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| | Unrecorded Date Brother omar. You asked the same question I would ask MR.Ahmed and thanks for the help.
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| | Unrecorded Date Ahmed. Does it matter?... If Omar Ibnu Khadhab was rejected by the prophet for his sincerity that the prophet could use some of TOWRAH verses and was told " O' Omar , if my brother moses was here today, he would have no way else but to follow me"... Then the message is clear that we ought to follow only our QURAN regardless of the agreement of the bible or the towrah for that matter with some subjects. We know what kind of god they teach in the bible. -JEWS insult god and call him POOR. -CHRISTIANS teach in the same bible:- -That NOAH slept with his two daughters and had SEX with them. - That JONAH(yunus) peace be on him WRESTLED WITH GOD and subdued him. (laughable eh?..) -That DAVID(da'ud) killed a man because he wanted the WIFE OF the man. -That PEOPLE OF GOD can cheat anyway they want if it is for the sake of god himself(no wander they had an american indian VERSION OF THE BIBLE that taught JESUS WAS AN INDIAN). (compatable with anything right?... You are doing A DAMAGE(intentionally because you are not ignorant) by arguing that we can quote the bible AND IT IS BETTER THAN SOME AHADITH. I hope you don't say I lied about you... - As of the verse of 7.157 and the previous verses in the same SURAH talk about:- ...those who followed moses and what they will be rewarded and those rebuked him and what they will be rewarded. ...Reminds them the truth about the prophet and that they knew him(in BAQRAH) just like they knew their kids. ...What MOHAMMED will teach them if they follow him and what they would be rewarded. You are MR KNOW ALL.. You did not understand why SHIIQS did not let you read the bible untill you discovered why eh? --You had no shiiq as you told us before. --Shiiqs don't prohibit things they follow the quran. --You giving support to JEWS AND CHRISTIANS WHO ACCUSED THE PROPHET OF COPYING THEIR PERFECT BIBLES.
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| | Unrecorded Date bashir, something occurred to me just now and it is along the lines of ahmad's thinking or logic. say, if the bible is corrupted and can't be trusted 100%, why would ahmed should go to the bible to confirm the hadeeth? also, say that all hadeeth can't be trusted 100% and the hadeeth is corrupted like the bible, shouldn't ahmed also go to the hadeeth to confirm the bible? i mean what is good for the goose is good for the gander, right? also what i would like to ask ahmed this is: did the people before the prophet mahammed pray the way he, ahmed, performs his prayers now? if this is the case, where is the evidence? i mean did the people before the prophet mahammed read or recite the fatiha before rukuuc and sujood, like ahmed does now? evidence, ahmed, evidence, please.
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| | Unrecorded Date Omar. lET HIM RESPOND TO THE PREVIOUS MESSAGES BROTHER. this will be ONATHER subject but for now let us WAIT FOR AHMED TO HAVE HIS SAYING ABOUT OUR MESSAGES. WASALAAMU CALEYKUM.
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| | Unrecorded Date i think ahmed can answer both questions. he is intelligent enough to kill two birds with one stone. let me clarify the questions for him: this is along the lines of or it pertains to ahmed's thinking or logic. and this will make my two questions into one question: here you go: all hadeeths can't be trusted 100% because the hadeeth is corrupted...since the hadeeth is corrupted and the hadeeth of the prophet of Allah talks about how to perform the prayers can't be trusted 100% i mean in the way we should perform the prayers, how then ahmed trust the previous books on this issue since the bible and torah are corrupted too and where does ahmed get the correct way to perform the prayers, in the bible or in the torah or both..in ahmed's thinking or logic, i want where did he find the formula of prayers? is the method of prayers in the previous books that are corrupted or he just accepts word of mouth that tells the correct way to perform the prayers and that is how he knows how to perform the prayers correctly? and this is where the fatiha question connects to this line of questioning or logic: did the people before the quran recite the fatiha in their prayers before the rukuuc and sujuud like ahmed recites fatiha when he performs his prayers now?
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| | Unrecorded Date i mean which one do we trust: the hadeeth, or do we trust the bible or torah in the way of prayers, the salaats? if not both, then where did ahmed get the source that tells the correct way to perform the prayers? i mean since the quran does not tell us the method of prayers, does ahmed know different book other than the books of albukhaari/muslim that tells us the correct way to perform the prayers? evidence, ahmed, evidence, please.
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| | Unrecorded Date OMAR. Assalaamu caleykum brother. you have a way of saying things. I am delighted the way you put things forth. Let us wait and see. Wasalaam.
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| | Unrecorded Date Asalama Alaykum! Umar, My goodness...what is this? You asked the same/similar questions...OVER and over!hahahaha! Why, one post is enough! :) You're making things dark. I never said we should quote the Bible if it doesn't agree with the Qur`an. XCUSE ME, did I? In fact, if I remember correctly, I told more than once that we should never quote the Bible unless it agrees with the Qur`an. Umar, the Qur`an came to be its own---and that OTHER things should agree with the Qur`an. See, what I'm saying? Everything else(may it be Hadith or another Book) is corruptable. Thus, they must agree with this Qur`an that is not corruptable. As for the Hadith that you're quoting---ASK me if I believe it's a "true" hadith! 1- Jews and Christians have in their Books a wicked concept of the Prophets and God---and I DENY that, in the blink of an eye! 1- Jews and Christians have in their Books that Baca(Mecca) is the Holy House of God! I AGREE with that, in the blink of an eye! SO, where is the hadith? I deny/agree with the above BECAUSE GOD says so, in His glorious Qur`an! If Hadith contradicts that---well, heck! I have seen many many many others which contradicted the Qur`an! The Qur`an, people, the Qur`an is superior to anything else! And, oh yes, read my "Salat in the Qur`an" and "salaad" posts in the Islamic Section! Regarding the Salat of those people, the Qur`an tells us that the People of the Book lost the Salat(this too is proven in their Books!) BUT, the Arab Pagans did NOT lose it...they corrupted it! The Qur`an teaches that also! It teaches how their "salats" were nothing but a mockery. Same with Hajj and Fasting and Zakkat! Some Muslims deny that the People before us established Salat(as we do!) Umar, there is no favoring; the hadiths are corrupted...and so is the Bible(and the history of the West!) The point is...they're "Corrupted"...thus, UNLIKE Submitters, I don't think the hadiths are ALL wrong. Truth is Truth---it's CLEAR from error! Bashir, You see, to me, it's all the same; ANYTHING(may it be Hadith or Bible or History)...MUST agree with the Qur`an when I quote it. If it doesn't, then I know it's the corrupted part...and no need to quote it! As for "shiiqs!" hahaha! OH, Brother, what---you think I just came out no-where??? I had been SUNNI(born in Sunni family!)...and then became SUFFI...and then became Aqwan(sunni)again...and you say I had no "Shiiqs"??? LOL! As for helping Jews and Christians; OH, gimme a break---Jews and Christians IDENTIFY Muhammad(pbuh) in their Books. They KNOW he is the Prophet of Allah; they don't want to believe him because he was "Aravim!"(i.e. Arab!) BUT, then again, Arabs did the same thing. When they knew Prophets would come from Children of Israel---they denied them...because they were "yehuds," their enemies! Ishmael and Kedar preached and preached the Glory of God---and taught them the Prophets that would succeed them...yet they denied them all! So these creatures play games---but the thing is who cares? Let them say the Prophet coppied their Book. We KNOW he did NOT...and so do they! So, what the heck---let `em accuse whatever! We are Muslims---We believe the Book is from God, and we believe Muhammad(pbuh) was his Prophet. So, if all man, let alone just Jews/Christians, believed otherwise...it'd not matter! Please, lets get things straight; I NEVER claimed to "know it all"---and if you want to debat, you had better darn well stop talking like that(remember my rules?...NO INSULTS!) I'm not twisting your arm to debate with me---if you can't handle it...that is that; but no need to call names...and make attributes that one does not deserve! I'm just like anybody else...who is strifing for the Truth; I'm NOT, and will say it again, am NOT a "Mr. Know it all"...so quit calling me one. Ramadan Mubarak to all those who believe! Peace, Ahmad!
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| | Unrecorded Date eventhough i asked the question again and again, it is like i knew that ahmed was not going to answer it!!! now, how did i know that? can you call it a miracle? i asked that question more than ahmed himself acknowledged and yet he blindfolded himself and danced around the question and had no answer.!! instead ahmed talked about(in smoke screen style) other things and mentioned that the quran is not corruptible as if bashir and i said it is. who cares if the jews and christians books say the holy house is makah? who muslim cares even if the books of christians and jews deny or confirm any thing? ahmed went on to say the quran says the people of the book lost the salaat and that arabs had salaat but corrupted it, but then ahmed said people before us established the salaat as we do. now the question ahmed did not want to answer which he danced around is this: how the people before us established the salaat as we do and where is that found? did they read the fatiha as we do? where did ahmed get this information? it is in the quran, the bible, the torah, the hadeeth......or where else?....please, ahmed, evidence, please. please do not dance around this time...everyone is looking at you and waiting to hear you say here is the evidence. i want to know where you got the formula of the prayers, that is all, ahmed.
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| | Unrecorded Date Ahmed. This time I gave my rank to Brother UMAR. I will butt in when the need says. As for now we would like your answers on UMAR'S QUESTIONS. Hey, don't provoke me okey!! I did not touch yet the appropriate names that you might be called. eh ehehehehehe! you are touchy ouoooch! I did not mean that.
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| | Unrecorded Date salaamu 'aleukum Yaa ikhwati filcaqiida; Bashir Abdi Thank you, I like your movement..by cooling the situation!!.., Whenever the thruth is in our grasping, HE(actor!) starts to change his behavior and act indefferntly to cover the thruth........ It cost us nothing to be cool and calm... in order to shed on ligh !!!!. I wonder why should islam be coupled with bible and torah!!!!!!!!. Does it make sense at all, if the Torah and bible are lost completely or corrupted !!!! Where on earth Islam needs Torah or bible!!!!! to prove what???? Are we losing here the whole concepta behind the sending Qur'an and prophethood!! ISLAM CAN'T STAND ALONE?????????
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| | Unrecorded Date Yaska. Brother, I would like to see things from AHMAD'S point of view so I(WE) can decide. And I let MR.AHMED speak for his opinions. wasalaam.
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| | Unrecorded Date Asalama Alaykum! Umar, Brother, I reffered you to posts...where ONLY these are concentrated. EVEN though you didn't want to read them(or just like hearing doubles!hehehe!) I will tell you, again! If i'm not mistaken...you're asking this: "how the people before us established the salaat as we do and where is that found? did they read the fatiha as we do? where did ahmed get this information?" WOW! Amazing, how if you read those posts(you could get your answers)...but then again, we're experiencing "Somali-debate," ain`t we? Just jumping in...and suddenly wanting(the past discussion to be re-peated?)hehehe! :) ANYWAY, we know that the past nations established Salat, as God tells us; "21.73 And We made them leaders, guiding (men) by Our Command, and We inspired them to do good deeds, to establish regular prayers, and to give Zakat; and they constantly served Us (and Us only)."...God says that after He talks about Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, etc!(The part of the People of the Book!) After God talks about the Prophets in Chapter Mary, He tells us; "19.59 But after them there followed a posterity who missed prayers and followed after lusts soon, then, will they face Destruction,-" And then, we see God tells us; "2.125 Remember We made the House a place of assembly for men and a place of safety; and take ye the Station of Abraham as a place of prayer; and We covenanted with Abraham and Ismail, that they should sanctify My House for those who compass it round, or use it as a retreat, or bow, or prostrate themselves (therein in prayer)."...From this, we know the Arabs too recieved Salat(since Ishmael and Kedar both...lived one after another!) However, God then tells us; "8.35 Their prayer at the House (of Allah) is nothing but whistling and clapping of hands: (Its only answer can be), "Taste ye the Chastisement because ye blasphemed." NOT because they forgot it or lost it that they're punished, but because they BLASPHEMED!(I wonder what that means!)haha! :) Now that you know the generations before us established Salat as we are, and that some forgot and others blasephemed. As for the "fatiha." The commentors of the Qur`an, such as Ibn Katheer, etc...tell us that the words Adam(pbuh) recieved from God are the Fatiha(the Key!); "2.37 Then learnt Adam from his Lord certain words, and (Allah) accepted his repentance; for He is Oft-Returning, Most Merciful." Oh, and `Umar, there is difference between "losing" and "corrupting"---I hope you understand that! CORRUPTED: Arabian Pagans had the Ka`bah...they did not destroy it(even fought for it from Abraha!)...yet blasephemed. Corrupted the House to the core---with all them gods! LOST: Jews/Christians stopped making pilgrimage(Hag, in Hebrew) to Bacca(Makkah!)...and we see that from their books and their current knowledge of Hajj! ...are the two the same? :) Bashir, Brother, the "appropriate names"??? haha! Some believed they had "appropriate names" for me than "AHMAD" and now I don't think they worth the ink...let alone the energy! :) Healthy discussion...results understanding! I made a decision that anything that is not healthy is not worth the try. SO, lets keep our debates healthy and insult-LESS, shall we? Don't wanna get any irregularities or infections! :) Ramadan Mubarak to all those who believe! Peace, Ahmad!
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| | Unrecorded Date AHMED. I will wait my own turf and gave the ground to Brother Umar. And congratulations for quoting BROTHER IBNU kathir who was SUNNI.
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| | Unrecorded Date i do not believe ahmed referred me to any posts. think he is just goofing or maybe he is confused me with someone else or maybe he is seeing double vision! hehehe :). now, the point is not that the past generations established prayers; the point is how did establish the regular prayers. in other word, did they pray like us and recite the fatiha, the way we do it now. now, we know that the last verses of fatiha reads like this: IHDINA-SIRAADAL MUSTAQIIM SIRAADAL LADDIINA AN CAMTA CALAYHIM QAYRIL MAQDUUBI CALAYHIM WALA DAAALIIN. now, ahmed said this verse or these words were given to adam and adam recited the fatiha. now, the commentators of the quran such as Ibn Katheer say that the meaning of IHDINA SIRAADAL MUSTAQIIM, SIRAADAL LADDIINA AN CAMTA CALAYHIM QAYRIL MAQDUUBI CALAY HIM WALA DAAALIIN is: "guide us in the straight way, the way of THOSE ON WHOM YOU HAVE BESTOWED YOUR GRACE, NOT THE WAY OF THOSE WHO EARNED YOUR ANGER(such as the jews), NOR OF THOSE WHO WENT ASTRAY(such as the christians)". now, ahmed wants us to believe that there were people before prophet adam, WHO EARNED ALLAH'S ANGER, LIKE THE JEWS and those WHO WENT ASTRAY, like the christians!!!! WOOW. who is lying now about these verses of Allah, ibnu kathiir, or ahmed?
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| | Unrecorded Date if ibnu khatiir says in his commentator of this verse "THOSE WHO EARNED YOUR ANGER(such as the jews), nor of THOSE WHO WENT ASTRAY(such as the christians) were recited in prophet adams time and during the jews and christians, then ahmed is saying the jews and christians were really cursing and talking about themselves and didn't' know it whenever they recited this verse in fatiha.!!!
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| | Unrecorded Date Asalama Alaykum! Umar, WHAW! Now, you wait a minute; I posted a message to you and to Bashir on Sunday, December 19, 1999 - 03:59 am. In that post, it says the following; (And, oh yes, read my "Salat in the Qur`an" and "salaad" posts in the Islamic Section!) Brother, please, i don't need to lie...lies do not help anyone but hurt who tells them(in the end!) AS for the Fatiha, Please, do NOT forget, the fatiha was ONLY seven verses before Prophet Muhammad(pbuh)! God tells us in the Qur`an: "15:87. And We have bestowed upon thee the Seven Oft-repeated (verses) and the Grand Qurán." with the exception of the LAST verse, the Fatiha is seven. God gave this last verse to US(Muslims) because other nations before us went stray and God's wrath came upon them. ALSO, even if we say that this last verse was included, please don't forget IBLIS---he went stray and God's anger was upon him....BEFORE Adam was given these words! AND, don't forget this also; IBLIS was in the rank of the angels...untill he refused God's order and came of the cursed! "18.50 Behold! We said to the angels, "Prostrate to Adam": they prostrated except Iblis. He was one of the Jinns, and he broke the Command of his Lord. Will ye then take him and his progeny as protectors rather than Me? And they are enemies to you! Evil would be the exchange for the wrong-doers!" You said: "now, ahmed wants us to believe that there were people before prophet adam, WHO EARNED ALLAH'S ANGER, LIKE THE JEWS and those WHO WENT ASTRAY, like the christians!!!!" Does *IBLIS* ring a bell now? NOT only did he went astray...but also earned a great ANGER of God's! SO, even if the seven oft-repeated are without the first verse(Bismillah,) or the last...i'm either way in the rank of the same meaning! As God says in 6.65, God explains things in diverse ways! Isn't that just a gift? ...are things a little brighter now, ya Umar? :) Bashir, Brother, I'm keep getting the same questions from my Brother Umar, however, i'm liking him!(he's honest...and I like that!) And you were honest, too---so don't get on my case! :) AND, Bashir, gimme a break, will yah? I never said that Sunnis are all wrong...nor did I ever say any sect is all-wrongah...but also not all-rightah! You will find in the same person that you see another side of aspen! BUT, this is human---it was this was since the begining of time! And God forgives whom He wills! Ramadan Mubarak to all those who believe! Peace, Ahmad!
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| | Unrecorded Date I'm a muslim and a somali person. I do not know that much about Islam, but I've been reading and following this discussion. I've been leaning towards the opinions of a.adam@usa.net until now. I like the way he looks at things and he pretty much handles himself very well against the people who debate with him. However, this is the first time I've seen someone nailed him to the coffin. Umar, you just cleared the air and made a big point on a.adam@usa.net. Thanks.
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| | Unrecorded Date Asalama Alaykum! Umar, WRONGO, again! You see, X-tians and Jews never really prayed. CHILDREN of ISRAEL did(hahah---the two are different!) X-tians and Jews are the works of men...such as Rabbi Hillel and Saint Paul! While Children of Israel are those who were the nations of the Prophets(some good...and some bad!) The book of the Jew that I referred in the "Salat in the Qur`an" post, the guy says; "ANCIENT-JEWS"...imagine who those would be, `eh? :) The Qur`an told us that these people LOST it; they lost the Prayers! So, if they lost it...why would they need to say it?*No sense*...my logic is having a goo-goo launcher in your statements that do not make sense! FIRST; you need to understand who the "jews" and "X-tians" are...b4 you make things in their name! They're the "generations who succeeded them"...succeeded who? "THEM!" Them who? "Children of Israel!" :) Ramadan Mubarak to all those who believe! Peace, Ahmad!
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| | Unrecorded Date Asalama Alaykum! Geesi, Hahaha!LOL! Somehow, I don't feel like being "nailed" to the "coffin!" AND, Geesi, you leaned towards me? WHY? I wonder! Because you *don't* know much of the religion? Hhhmmm, not to worry...you will! Even if not from me, from others! Stick with Umar, he'll get yah there, for sure! The guy asks neat questions that I like! Oh, and by the way, it is sorta x-citing to see being called by my *e-mail* ahahh! Toodles! Ramadan Mubarak to all those who believe! Peace, Ahmad!
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| | Unrecorded Date the islamic section or the posts ahmed said he referred to me did not answer or address my question about the salaat and fatiha that i put to him. also, i did not say to ahmed that he lied; i just said ahmed was just goofing or maybe he is confused me with someone else or maybe he is seeing double vision! hehehe :). this ayat fatiha consists of seven verses and the ayah ahmed cited 15:87 says: "we have given upon you seven repeatedly verses". now, ahmed said Allah gave the last verse to US(Muslims), but in no where did ahmed tell us where he got that information which says the last verses were only given to the muslims and not people before? it is found in the quran, hadeeth, the bible, the torah or somewhere else? ahmed said that "the fatiha was ONLY seven verses before Prophet Muhammad(pbuh)!" again, where did he get this information, from the quran, the hadeeth, the bible, the torah, or somewhere else? evidence, ahmed, evidence, please. but, i do not understand. did ahmed mean to say fatiha was ONLY five verses before prophet mahammed, instead of seven? if the fatiha was only seven verses before prophet mahammed, as it is now, then christians and jews were cursing and talking about themselves whenever they recited that verses according to ibnu katiir's commentator of fatiha, right?! by the way, if we include the last two verses of fatiha, does that mean iblis was a member of the christian/jews before adam's time?
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| | Unrecorded Date Ahmed, I wonder if you know about the concept of "NASKH WA TANSIIKH"? Thnx Ramadan Karim
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| | Unrecorded Date Ahmed. I guess this is getting very exciting! And don't forget Ahmed that there will be a time that I will demand some answers just like brother UMAR. But know, I enjoy very much watching the two of you guys. Also some advice; when you are asked questions By Umar he is very smart so don't go into details just to the core as you have been doing.
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| | Unrecorded Date ahmed is starting to play jargons. he said "X-tians and Jews never really prayed. CHILDREN of ISRAEL did", but i got the feeling that ahmed is creating smoke-screen here by engaging terminology or jargons when we know already who is whom of ahlu kitaabs. however, no matter how ahmed slices this, still the question that stands in front of him which begs an answer is this: how does ahmed know that the ahlu kitaab people, the people before us(the jews and christains), recited the fatiha and that the fatiha was given to them also(even minus the last two verses of fatiha, as he claims)?
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| | Unrecorded Date If reading Salliga Ibrahm. in the Atahyat is a shirk and Idol worshipping... So I wonder, what Ahmed knows about how the prophet (saw) himself used to perform the ATAHYAT?
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| | Unrecorded Date Salaamu Caleyku Cumar & Nur, walaalayaal waan idiin salaamay. Ku soo dhawoowaada halkan.
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| | Unrecorded Date Ansaari waad mahadsan tahay Qof walbana Ramadaan kariim.
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| | Unrecorded Date Ahmed, I like the neat questions of umar too. Although I know not that much of Islam, you always had answers, at least answers to my liking. you seemed to know the religion better than anyone else, included me and you made everyone seem that they were off track with your answers and you suggested strongly in your writings that the somali muslims(the sunnis)were following not the religion Islam correctly, but now as it looks, omar's questions to you make things very clear and different. His questions show that you are the one who has been had and in the wrong track, since you are unable to answer his questions.
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| | Unrecorded Date Asalama Alaykum! Umar, Please, Brother...you shouldn't deny things that you say. You did say that I lied...in your post regarding the fatiha/Ibn Kathir! You said; "WOOW. who is lying now about these verses of Allah, ibnu kathiir, or ahmed?"...and I've the intellegence to know who you *think* is lying! :) ALSO, yes, all the answers you needed were in those posts(trust me, all of them were there...in different words)! AND, as I said, you should first understand the difference between: JEWS and CHILDREN OF ISRAEL! We're not the some wicked Arabs, Umar! We're Muslims---and God gave us a book of proof! Truth stands clear from Error(PLEASE, lets not forget that!) I ask you to find ONE nice/good verse about JEWS...while there are plenty good verses about Children of Israel! AND, FYI, there are TONS of nations that went before us who were not "Jews" or "X-tians" that went stray and deserved God's wrath. For example, the people of Noah, Lot, and Abraham. Also, the tribe Thamud and the tribe `Aad. Does it make sense that Children of Israel would ask God to not put in the ranks of those?hahah! ALSO, do we see any people before Abraham who are enjoined to establish Salat in the Qur`an? Adam recieved *words* from God...does that mean he established SALAT?(AND you wonder why I reffered you to my other posts?) OH, BROTHER! A shia-Muslim scholar/writer, Abdullah Ali(NOT Abdullah Yusuf Ali)...says, and I quote: "the words that Allah, swt, given to Adam are the Key(suraltul Al-fateha) except the last verse!"(p89 in his Ahlul-bayt in Iran!)You would think it doesn't make sense since GOD tells us in the Qur`an that there are seven oft-repeated verses that are given to us! HOWEVER, Sheikh Ali goes on saying that this "oft-repeated" verses only mean US(this Ummah; the Ummah of Muhammad(pbuh)! Ibn Kathir confirms that the *words* that were given to Adam were the seven oft-repeated verses! I AGREE with him because it makes MORE sense! God says; "15:87. And We have bestowed upon thee the Seven Oft-repeated (verses) and the Grand Qurán."--this verse is directed to MANKIND(Children of Adam!) It only makes sense that God given the same words to our Parents! I made a mistake...I should say with the exception of the last verse, the Fatiha is SIX(as that guy, Abdullah emplies!) BUT, I do not agree with him! The seven verses are perfectly workable for Adam, as Iblis was before him! They're putting *Jews/Christians*...as they're the ONLY ones who went astray before us! X-cuse me...in the begining, who went stray? ALSO, don't forget...when I was Suffi and then SUNNI*aqwanul-muslimiin,* and I used to recite the seven verses too...(and now I think that I WAS in Idoltory)...does that make any difference? Reflecting back...I see no difference between what I used to do and those of the Arabian Pagans---because I blasephemed, as they did! SO, even if the Jews/Christians said this trillion times...it did not matter, as they were ignorant about it! So, the ancient-Hebrews were maybe thinking of *noah's* and *abraham's* and *lut's* people, perhaps??? :) A quick question for yah; what does this mean: "1.7 The way of those on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy Grace, those whose (portion) is not wrath, and who go not astray." ...who are the ones whom God's grace were bestowed upon? God says a verse just next chapter to that: "2.47 O Children of Israel! call to mind the (special) favor which I bestowed upon you, and that I preferred you to all others (for My Message)."...so we ask God to make us like the CHILDREN of ISRAEL...and not the Jews/Christians? My logic feels so *eiped!* Umar, Bro, do you see where you're confused? :) ANYWAY, in the conclusion---we know "LAA ILAHA ILALLAH" did not change(no matter what Prophet, as God tells us in 21.25)...and guess what is next to that? SALAT! Do you think it changed? Do you think Hajj changed? Do you think Zakkat changed? ISLAM is clear from Error! Bashir, Brotha Bashir, don't ya feel stranger! :) Nur, Do I know it? Is there anyone who doesn't? :) Geesi, Tsk! tsk! tsk! Bhole zana, Brotha! Is there a question of Umar's that I didn't answer? Blessed Ramadan to all those who believe! Peace, Ahmad!
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| | Unrecorded Date again ahmed said he referred to me some section or posts that answered or addressed my question about the fatiha in salaat. i told ahmed he just goofed and he did not answer the question fatiha in the salaat, then ahmed said the answers were there in that section or posts and he didn't lie. then, i said to him, i didn't say he lied; i said he just goofed. the remark ""WOOW. who is lying now about these verses of Allah, ibnu kathiir, or ahmed?" was a question that i put to ahmed. if ahmed does not think he is not lying when he said the answers are there, let him show it to everyone here. geesi is right when he said that ahmed just was "unable to answer" my question. instead all ahmed could come up with is this kind of excuse: "all the answers you needed were in those posts(trust me, all of them were there...in different words)!" and jargons of who is whom of ahlu kitaabs. the issue i'm after is not about if the people who followed prophet muuse were actually called jews(ahlu kitaab) or the children of israel(the people prophet ciise was sent to after they deviated the ways of the torah or the prophet muuse's way). however, what i'm after and all i'm asking ahmed and want to know is this: how does ahmed know that the ahlu kitaab people, the people before us(the jews and christains), recited the fatiha and that the fatiha was given to them also(even minus the last two verses of fatiha, as he claims)? that is all ahmed.
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| | Unrecorded Date ahmed said the seven verses of fatiha are perfectly workable for Adam, as Iblis was before him! so, in according to ahmed's logic, not only iblis was *those on whom Allah bestowed His Grace*, but iblis was also *those who earned Allah's anger* and *those who went astray* at the same time. in ahmed's thinking, the prophet adam was to ask Allah(while reciting the fatiha and while making duca to Allah in prayer) to lead him the ways of iblis(who was THOSE on whom Allah bestowed His Grace) !!! ahmed asked me what does this mean: "1.7 The way of those on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy Grace, those whose(portion) is not wrath, and who go not astray." first of all, the answer is that Allahu caalim, but my thinking says that prophet adam did not ask Allah to lead him in the ways of iblis, for iblis did not earn an act of grace from Allah while adam was alive.
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| | Unrecorded Date Ahmed, Ama Tsk! tsk! tsk! lahee ama Bhole zana lahee, if you have any sense at all(without MUCANGAGNIMO), you would know that the last two writings of umar really destroyed your whole arguments. So, not only did you not answer his question, he really nailed you into the coffin this time.
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| | Unrecorded Date Ahmed. I am no stranger. Just don't wanna spoil the mood in the house which is going to my liking. Afterall, If I have someone representing my views why do I need to yell from the sides. I just wait motionless to see how you handle the SCUD II missiles.
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| | Unrecorded Date Ahmed. One more thing; your past does not proof anything. Your sayings that you were SUFI one time and SUNNI another adds only to your proplems AHMED. Let us stick to the present. We are interested in who you are now and just now. That is why we like talking to you BECAUSE WE CARE. later ahmed later.
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| | Unrecorded Date Ansaari. Don't rush my big big brother you will get there inshallah.
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| | Unrecorded Date Asalama Alaykum! Umar, Brother, there are things you must understand. You're mixing water and milk here. LETS concentrate one thing at a time, shall we? ~~~ADAM~~~ Please, don't insult your intellegence, Umar. The last verse of the Fatiha says; "The way of those whom thou hast bestowed thy Grace"---this is about those WHO submitted themselves to God and took His orders; *angels*...with the exception of Iblis. We know anybody whom God hast bestowed His Grace is those who submitt(FIND yourself anywhere where God says; "OH, JEWS...call to mind the favors that I bestowed upon you"...but we see "OH, Children of Israel, call to mind the favors that I bestowed upon you") SO, it makes sense that it'd NOT mean Iblis but other Angels who submitted themselves to God! "those whose(portion) is not wrath, and who go not astray"---GUESS who does not GO astray??? The Angels! Adam is here asking God to make of them the likeness of the Angels...and not of the Jinn(descendents of Iblis!) If you don't get that---then, surely, my logic is *eiped* :) AND, yes, please, don't forget; ADAM was alive while Iblis was in the ranks of the Angels. Remember, God asked him(Adam) to tell them of their names! REMEMBER??? It's in the fist maqra`ah of Sura Al-Baqarah! So, your saying *Adam was not alive when Iblis earn grace from Allah* tells me how *much* you know of the Qur`an. To just be in the ranks of the Angels is GRACE from Allah! *wax bay maqlaan laakiin ma fahmaan* taas waxaa lagu og-yahay gaalada, Walaalkiis. FADLAN, i dheh waad fahantey! Wisdom is given to those who believe! :) ~~~JEWS/CHRISTIANS~~~ As I SAID, this was once again in my posts. Brother, oh Brother, if you couldn't get that from those post...I guess I should get ready for a LONG explanation every time I wanna tell you something...since you won't get it, easily! You see, there is this book that I reffered to you in those posts. The book has a diagram and explanations of how those Ancient-Hebrews prayed. When you look at the diagram, you get the EXACTLY way that Muslims of today pray! The Book is written by a famous Rabbi! He recorded this from their *Mishnah*(OR Hadiths of Moses{pbuh}) SO, since the Fatiha was given to Adam(pbuh)...and then it was given to us, it only makes sense that the fatiha was given to them, as well! REMEMBER, the Ancient-Hebrews(Children of Israel)...were just like us(MUSLIMS!)(DESCENDTS of Abraham...just like the Arabs!)(THOSE who recieved the Book of wisdom and LAW: Taurat!) Does it not make sense that God would give them the same verses our fore-father was given just like we were given? AND, please, don't ever forget...God favored Children of Israel ABOVE all nations! The Qur`an is full of Wisdom, Umar! EVERY little thing it says has a meaing. It teaches Man what he knows not...if MAN lets it! If you read it over and over(in million times)...if you don't let it, it won't teach ya a thing! To let it, you don't need to say; "OH, I LET YOU, O` QUR`AN to teach me wisdom"...but you must believe with ALL of your heart and being that the Qur`an is COMPLETE; that EVERYTHING of example and wisdom that we need is within it. That it is FREE of anybody or any other book. That it, itself, guides man to the core of goodness! BUT, if you make it worth less than its worth by saying *there must be another books(i.e, hadiths, tafsiirs) to help us understand it or complete it...or it can't be without the *sunnah*" you rub off its worth of completeness and free of anything else. THUS, guess who ends up---just *reading* while not *understanding* it??? Yah, yur intellegent, Bro! :) Bashir, Brother, you see...that is where you're WRONGO! Your past is crutial to your present! WHEN it doens't matter is when you came from ANOTHER belief(i.e., Judaism, X-tianity, etc)...but when you're just in the same belief...you had better darn well EXAMINE it!hahah!Trust me, my past(EVEN though i'm young...) teaches me ALOT about my present and future! I learn new things every-day...because knowledge does not stop. However, the more I learn...the more I reflect and are wiser! It's nice to know that you care...and please, don't forget---even in not all positive way, y'all teach me alot! I learn and learn and learn---some more!hahah! Thanx! Geesi, Hahahah! Trust me, Geesi! Ya ain't gonna discourage me or make me *feel* down. It ain't gonna happen, Geesi! I had *Fulay* and *Geesi* before...and it sure darn well did not work! SO, don't ya waste yur time, K? My heart has been in a state of Islam---nothing can make it *down*...but GOD! Ta-ta! :) Ramadan Mubarak to all those wbo believe! Peace, Ahmad!
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| | Unrecorded Date ahmed does not know he is the one who is mixing apples and oranges and on top of that he got his own explanations about the last verses of fatiha. but the very person ahmed relies on his commentator in the fatiha says that "those whom thou hast bestowed thy Grace" are nothing but the chosen prophets of Allah, the receivers of the bestowed grace of Allah with their followers, the saints, and not the angels as ahmed is trying to sell us here. so this is really the mixing of apples and oranges, mixing the chosen prophets of Allah with the angels of Allah, the angels, whose nature is super-terrestrial/incorporeal and whose real and objective beings to to only serve Allah without choice. angels are being programmed only to be faithful servants of Allah and they are pure spirits absolutely sinless and incorruptible unlike adam(his progeny) and iblis himself, who fallen from grace. i looked up the ibnu katiir's explanations of the fatiha and in no where there does it say that prophet adam was given the fatiha, so this is ahmed's own fabrication and in doing so, he is really the one who is insulting our intelligence. ahmed again is mistranslating the verse of fatiha on his own. he writes it this way: "those whose(portion) IS not wrath, and who GO not astray" and while adding this: "GUESS who does not GO astray??? The Angels!". now, i mean while ahmed is following in the line of his own mistranslation, he made this quranic verse in present tense in order it to fit for his arguments sake. however, if you look up and read the Alah's verse, the correct translation of the verse is really a past tense and it reads this way: "those whose(portion) EARNED Your wrath, and who WENT astray". As you can see, ahmed is either a blind-follower of somebody or he is just blind to the facts which accidently makes him tamper or meddle the Allah's words in the quran, without care and without fear of Allah.!! also, ahmed is saying i said *Adam was not alive when Iblis earn grace from Allah*. now, ahmed misunderstood what i said or he is being fooled by his own eyes. this is what i said: "iblis did not earn an act of grace from Allah while adam was alive" in this world, while supposedly(as ahmed believes) adam was reciting fatiah and was asking Allah to lead him in the ways of iblis, "as Iblis was before adam". thus, SUMUN BUKMUN CUMUN LAA YARJICUUN" now, ahmed said he has shown me an evidence where fatiha was given to the people before us. he said he referred to me a book written by a jew rabbi that tells people before us prayed exactly like us and read the fatiha. have anybody seen this book? but what is amassing is that ahmed relies on a famous rabbi(one of the persons who have been known to corrupt their own holy book of torah while at the same time, he ahmed, is discarding the sunna of the prophet in the way of prayers). ahmed is saying that the book shows us how alu kitab(the children of israel) prayed and recited the fatiha, "EXACTLY way that Muslims of today pray!" then, ahmed made a conclusion that this evidence of his is the correct way to make the salaat, because it came from the same people who perverted the words of Allah in the torah, the jews. and then, ahmed said to me in request: "please, don't ever forget...God favored Children of Israel ABOVE all nations!", the same people that Allah and His angels and His believers(the muslims of both men and jin) CURSE till the day of judgement. "Surly those who conceal what We have sent down of evidences and the guidance after We have expounded it to mankind in the Book(taurat and Injil), they are the very ones CURSED by Allah and CURSED by the CURSERS". the same people(the children of israel) who are backsliders(2:83), the same people who worship calf after Allah guided them(2:51), the same people who confounding the Truth with falsehood(2:85), the same people who are the corrupters of Divine text(2:211), the same people who deny truth out of envy(2:90), the same people who drew WRATH(MAQDUUBI) from Allah(2:61), the same people who reject of Truth for momentary considerations(2:41), the same people who killed the prophets of Allah(2:61), the same people who created doubt about quran(3:73).....i think it is time that ahmed follows him own advice and learns the quran and it's wisdom.
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| | Unrecorded Date The Jury In the house: SCENE: They are shaffling their notes and whispering to each other, soon the VERDICT WILL COME. No mercy and a swift justice. For the love of god is greater than anybody and anything else.
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| | Unrecorded Date Asalama Alaykum! Umar, Brother, not only are you distorting my words...but you're also REALLY insulting your intellegence. Never in anywhere did I say that the Book of the Rabbi tells us that they recited "fatiha"...but I said a DIAGRAM; showing how they prayed exactly like us. MEANING in their bowing, prostrating, and standing and all the other actions that Jews did. I even told you that; "since the Fatiha was given to Adam(pbuh)...and then it was given to us, it only makes sense that the fatiha was given to them, as well! REMEMBER, the Ancient-Hebrews(Children of Israel)...were just like us(MUSLIMS!)(DESCENDTS of Abraham...just like the Arabs!)(THOSE who recieved the Book of wisdom and LAW: Taurat!) Does it not make sense that God would give them the same verses our fore-father was given just like we were given? AND, please, don't ever forget...God favored Children of Israel ABOVE all nations!" OH, and by the way, the book of the rabbi is available online to buy(I believe amazon.com has it...get it for yurself) :) ...and the only and AND ONLY purpose of quoting this book was to SHOW that Ancient-Israelites established Salat...and THIS agrees with the Qur`an! SO, Of course, I WILL believe it over any other book...`cause it agrees WITH the Qur`an! Can yah get that, ya Brothah?heheh! What I say in prayers...Has ALWAYS been because MUSLIMS agree upon it! X-cept...I don't agree with the Muslims that Salat was relatively new thing that Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) taught men...it was something he CORRECTED...not taught it as a new deal. And that we should pray in the Salats for anybody...as God asks us to NOT mention in the Masjids anybody but HIM(I wonder what people do in the Masjids!hhhhmmm...I should do a research on that, `eh?) As for them(Israelites) being *cursed*...I was not talking about any current nation...I was talking about THOSE whom God favored above ALL nations! Children of Israel...and any other nation before and after them...all went stray and/or corrupted their religion. DOES that make any difference? The verse you quoted, to tell ya the truth...I identify that with some *muslims* also!hahah! It goes for anyone who invents lies against God! AND, I have heard some who claimed that God said in the Qur`an that Ali was a Prophet and that the companion Uthman left it out---what a blasepheming people! AND, I have seen *Muslims* who think the Qur`an is in-complete...and needs the SUNNAH to complete it; what a lie against the Qur`an. ALL of these go under the verse, but who cares? Everyone is looking at the other! AS for Ibn Kathir's commentary, I will get you a link where a SUNNI scholar Muslims quotes Ibn Kathir that these are the words that God given to Adam. And, if it is not there...It'll only be another mistake that I made!(AND, I make many many of them...and I have the balls and the heart to say; I DO make mistakes...by trusting people's source!) AND, I only mentioned him...because Sunnis believe in the commentary of Ibn Kathir---but I myself believe these words are the ones God given to Adam...since it was for repetance and turning to God...same way that we're given the verses and is part of the Salat! As for the commetary of the verse, Bro..hahah; this is what I said: ["those whose(portion) is not wrath, and who go not astray"---GUESS who does not GO astray??? The Angels! Adam is here asking God to make of them the likeness of the Angels...and not of the Jinn(descendents of Iblis!)] TO ME, that makes a perfect sense. Adam does not ask to be an ANGEL...but to have their likeness(meaning in submission to the will of God)! He is praying against the likeness of Iblis! Weligaa ma maqashay hadal-hayska "waa sidii malaa`ig, hadii aad afka gacanta u geliso qaniinayn"...does that mean the person is *malaa`ig*? or *sidii malaa`ig*??haha! AS I SAID it'd...my logic is now definitely feeling *eiped* :) You see, I believe that God told us ANY changes that he made in the religion(salat, zakkat, hajj, fasting, etc) WITHIN the Qur`an. EVERYTHING; all examples are there, complete and honored! God let us have sexual-relations with out spouses during the ramadan month---something that was NOT allowed before! REMEMBER, how Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) used to ret-reat to the Mountains???haha! Don't ya think God would tells us if there was any change in the Salat?haha!No, no, Bro...and 1000 times no! Please, Brother, tell me that you believe the Qur`an is FULL of wisdom...and that EVERY explanation is in there for us...and that it is FULLY DETAILED AND COMPLETE and that it is FREE of ANY other Book. Declare this to me, if you believe that! AND, if not, i'm sure...there won't be anything to go on, as I BELIEVE all that! OH, and by the way, I eat APPLES and ORANGES together!hahahah! I also mix milk with water! I hope expressions won't offend yah---`cause they truly mean nothin`...and if they offend yah; i'll stop! :) Ramadan Mubarak to all those who believe! Peace, Ahmad!
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| | Unrecorded Date Asalama Alaykum! Bashir, LOL! Now look who is funny! :) Peace, Ahmad!
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| | Unrecorded Date Ahmed. Let us keep it cool. Shall we?.. And by the way, you don't have to assume anything alright?.. I keep my promise of not getting on your case senior.
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| | Unrecorded Date Ahmed is 21 years old, he learned the Quran in english, he knows more and more about Torah, Injil and other religions. He used to be Akhwaan, Sufi and now what..? never seen a 21 years somali man knows so much as Ahmed! Waaw I don't get it. Only God knows what is his Aim!
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| | Unrecorded Date ahmed said he referred to me some section or posts that answered or addressed my question about the fatiha in salaat. i repeated to him that he show me where is that, then ahmed pointed out to me a jew rabbi's book. now did i ask ahmed the fatiha in the prayers that he said the people before us recited or a DIAGRAM of how the people before us prayed? was this a deliberate distortion coming from ahmed or evasion to my question? but, still ahmed wants me to buy the book of that rabbi which he said is available online(I believe amazon.com has it...get it for yourself) now, is ahmed telling me i can find in that book of the rabbi the fatiha or just rukuuc and sujuud? i guess ahmed would have pointed to us if the rabbi said something about the reciting of the fatiha of the people before us, but either the rabbi did not want to include that in his book or there were not really fatiha to recite in the method of prayers for his people. i mean why right a book that talks about prayers of the people before us just doing standing, bowing and prostrating without reciting anything? ahmed said that the prophet didn't teach NEW things in the salaats. now, is ahmed saying that while the prophet was performing his salaats, he only recited fatiah and didn't recite the quranic verses that talk about the events of the past generations and events of his time OR is ahmed also saying that these quranic verses that the prophet mahammed taught and recited in prayers were also revealed at the time of the old generation and that they also used recited these verses(like they recited fatiha) while performing there prayers? also, ahmed said that "we should pray in the Salats for anybody...as God asks us to NOT mention in the Masjids anybody but HIM" now, does ahmed know that there are many verses in the quran that mention prayers(ducooyin) for different people and there is a particular duca(prayer) for our prophet that is in the quran which Allah said to recite(in everywhere, even in the masjid, even in the salaat)? al-ahazab 56: "INA LAAHA WA MALA'IKUHU YUSALUUNA CALA NABIYI YAA AYUHA LADIINA AAMANUU SALUU CALAYHIM WA SALIMUU TASLIIMAN" Is this a new thing or the people before us also recited this in their prayers or in their place of worship(masjids) or in becca(meca)? ahmed said to me: "Please, Brother, tell me that you believe the Qur`an is FULL of wisdom...and that EVERY explanation is in there for us...and that it is FULLY DETAILED AND COMPLETE and that it is FREE of ANY other Book. Declare this to me, if you believe that! AND, if not, i'm sure...there won't be anything to go on, as I BELIEVE all that!" i say to ahmed that i fully believe all the quranic verses and the quran is complete, but i also believe the prophet's sunna and sayings, just as you believe what that jew rabbi said and what your own explanations and mistranslation of the quran which lead you to believe your conjectures. mistranslation like this one: ahmed said that adam didn't recite the verse in the fatiha this way: "those whose(portion) EARNED Your wrath, and who WENT astray", but like this way: ["those whose(portion) *IS* not wrath, and who *GO* not astray]. who told ahmed this?
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| | Unrecorded Date to Ahmed; You are a very dangerous man. I have just finished reading your posts. Then I went and visited the "free-minds" web page. You make sense. You start wiht reasonable concepts. Let us keep our faith free of shirk. Keep the link clear and only to ALLAH (swt). So far so good. Then you start questioning fundamental beliefs. Quote as you will! But your bottom line is basically let us ignore the Prophet. That we should not include him in the shahaddah? That the shahaddah was incorrectly added to our faith. You try and erase the prophet? WHO THE HELL DO YOU THINK YOU ARE????? The prophet Muhammed (pbuh) was Allah's most beloved. He was choosen to bring us Allah's pure message. His life was an example to us. He SUFFERED persecution and hunger to bring us Allah's message. HOW DARE YOU demote him? I am not praying to the prophet when I include a "du'a" to him at the end of the salat! I am not enjoining him to Allah when I include his name in the shahadah! He was ALLAH's messenger. You can't take that away from him. What you are preaching is POLITICAL. The Saudis always wanted to demote the prophet- they almost abolished his Masjid in Madinah- long ago. WHY??? Because of fear of his tribe! Its political. Who are the leaders of the faith today- the descendants of those who persecuted the prophet. ALLAH's messenger deserves respect from all of us. He is afterall choosen by the Creator of the universe to bring us His message. And don't quote the Bible and Torah to me- these are not the original books ALLAH sent with Moses and Isa. That is all I have to say to you.
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| | Unrecorded Date AHMEDDEY. Bro I am baaaaack! I see you playing cat and mouse game. You always don't answer questions but ellude them. -You Are Mushrik Too: because you refer to yourself in the prayer(salat) several times:- rabbigfirlii,samicallaahu liman xamidahu. Again you pray for the people as you said when you close your prayers with assalaamu caleykum. I guess even your ommision of the salli won't make you safe from shrk as you accused of us. what do you have to say about this brother?....
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| | Unrecorded Date AHEMDDEY. Does it make a difference if you pray for yourself or for the prophet if you are honest?.. Because you said that salad is for god and then you mix with someone else(you and others) using third person singular which differs only in the prophet's case his real name?.. I wander if I will ever get an answer for this questions?........
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| | Unrecorded Date Nabad iyo Naxariis Ilaahay Korkiina Ha Ahaato Ramadan Kariim Walaal Ahmad muddo ayaan halkan ka aamusnaa oo aan sugayay in aad bal wax cusub sheegto. Hadda waxaan la saftay walaalaha kale ee kugu sheegay wax yaabo badan. Kumase dhahayo waxaad tahay "GAAL" waayo Ilaahay baa og waxa aad tahay! Waxaanse hubaa in aadan wax badan ka sokayn kuwa Ilahaay Yiri "Yuxarifuuna Kelima Can Mawaadicihi" ama kuwa Ilaahay Ku Yiri "Muutuu Fii Ghiidikum". Nebi Maxamed Calayhi Salaatu Wa Salaamu: Wuxuu ahaa nin aan waxna qorin waxna akhrin Qur'aanka Mucjisadiisana waxaa ka mid ah in uu ku soo degay nin UMMI ah. Nebigeena Suuban wuxuu ahaa Rususha iyo Anbayada Ilaahay Kii ugu Dambeeyay sidaa darteedna ma aha in aad tiraahdo waxaan raacayaa wixii Nebi Ibrahim Ku soo degay iyo Rusul kale ee walaal waxaa dhab ah oo kama guuraan ah TAN KU SOO DEGTAY NEBI MAXAMED (SCW). Haddii ay dhab kaa tahay ISLAAMKA aad sheeganayso maxaa kuu diiday in aad culamada MUSLIMIINTA ah midkood in aad MARKHAATI ama MARJAC ka dhigato? Maxaa keenay in Yuhuud Ilahaay Aakhiriyo Addoonba NACLADAY in aad DALIIL ka dhigato? Salaadda: Waa duco Waa Xiriirin Waa Naxariis Waa Baryo Ugu dambayn Aniga iyo Adiga iyo waxa dunida jooga midna ma gaari karo CIDDI keli ah oo Nebi Maxamed. Haddii aadan raacin SUNADIISANA adi baa walaalow LUMI. 1420 sano oo runtiisa la ogaaday ee OGOW Ilaahay Ballankiisa oo SUG MAALIN: [at-Taubah 9:23-24] O ye who believe! Choose not your fathers nor your brethren for friends if they take pleasure in disbelief rather than faith. Whoso of you taketh them for friends, such are wrong-doers. Say: If your fathers, and your sons, and your brethren, and your wives, and your tribe, and the wealth ye have acquired, and merchandise for which ye fear that there will no sale, and dwellings ye desire are dearer to you than Allah and His messenger and striving in His way: then wait till Allah bringeth His command to pass. Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk Ilaahayow Noo Naxariiso
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| | Unrecorded Date Dear Muslims, I have been reading and trying to follow all the views and opinions advanced here with much fascination! Esp, ever since this man AHMAD ‘gate-crashed’ into this forums! Thanks to AHMAD, I now know there are people (even Somalis!) who are fighting Islam from WITHIN. Thanks to AHMAD, I now know there are ‘Muslim’ people out to undermine Islam. Thanks to AHMAD I now know there are ‘Muslims’ in the payroll of the JEWS! Thanks to AHMAD, I am now more of a Muslim than before he came on the scene! And lastly thanks to the Muslim brothers and sisters who have EXPOSED AHMAD for what he is, and tried very hard to advice, preach and caution him again and again. Ramadaan Kariim.
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| | Unrecorded Date A question I have asked Ahmed and its subsequent answer, Question: Ahmed, I wonder if you know about the concept of "NASKH WA TANSIIKH"? Answer: Do I know it? Is there anyone who doesn't? I frankly do not know who does and who doesn’t? You also haven’t told me whether you (AHMED) know it or not? I will ask it again: Ahmed, do you know about the concept of "NASKH WA TANSIIKH"? If NO full stop. If YES then, Do you believe in it? Wasallam.
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| | Unrecorded Date Asalama Alaykum! Bashir, OK, Bro...as cool as you like! :) Umar, ONCE again, you're insulting your intellegence...or maybe your knowledge of english. The verse is a sentence, if a PAST tense is mentioned in the sentence(even in the begining)...da yah have to re-peat it, ya Brothah? This translation was made by Yusuf Ali, one of the most authorized translators. To check it for yurself, visit; http://www.orst.edu/groups/msa/quran/quran/1.html The last verse, yah Brothah, is one sentence; it goes: "7. The way of those on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy Grace, those whose (portion) is not wrath, and who go not astray." I wonder what *hast bestowed* are---present tense, perhaps, yah brothah? I wonder what is wrong with that translation(but, then again)...hahah---you may not *get it* as I should expect! :) Also, you said; "ahmed said that adam didn't recite the verse in the fatiha this way: "those whose(portion) EARNED Your wrath, and who WENT astray", but like this way: ["those whose(portion) *IS* not wrath, and who *GO* not astray]. who told ahmed this?" I never said that *fatiha* was not recited this or that way. The fatiha is in Arabic, yah Brothah...nothing to be confused in! The translations are all correct---it's you who is not able to see it! :) As for me to reffer you to a book, this is what I said, I hope you LISTEN this time; "You see, there is this book that I reffered to you in those posts. The book has a diagram and explanations of how those Ancient-Hebrews prayed. When you look at the diagram, you get the EXACTLY way that Muslims of today pray! The Book is written by a famous Rabbi! He recorded this from their *Mishnah*(OR Hadiths of Moses{pbuh}) SO, since the Fatiha was given to Adam(pbuh)...and then it was given to us, it only makes sense that the fatiha was given to them, as well! REMEMBER, the Ancient-Hebrews(Children of Israel)...were just like us(MUSLIMS!)(DESCENDTS of Abraham...just like the Arabs!)(THOSE who recieved the Book of wisdom and LAW: Taurat!) Does it not make sense that God would give them the same verses our fore-father was given just like we were given? AND, please, don't ever forget...God favored Children of Israel ABOVE all nations!" What do we learn from those two prags., 1: that there is a BOOK in those post that tell you EXACTLY how the Ancient-Hebrews prayed(I mean, in action...in a DIAGRAM!) 2: and that: "since the Fatiha was given to Adam(pbuh)...and then it was given to us, it only makes sense that the fatiha was given to them, as well!" It MAKES sense...not that it is in the BOOK of the Rabbi(we know Jews distorted the Religion---but that is that; distorted, there are some alive in it!) Who does it make sense to?(to me, of course...and to you, if you'd *understand*) AS I said, Umar, i'm sick and tired of the *debate* of the somalis. IF you read my posts, you would KNOW that EVERYTHING that I say in the prayers(in saying; may it be *fatiha* or *sami`Allahu liman-hamidah*) is from all the sects---and because they agree upon it, in ALL. When I'm debating with someone, I expect them to KNOW the history of my debate...or tell me so when they start debating with me like some did in this discussion. BUT, if someone comes in, all of the sudden...and talks like he *followed* my discussion, he had better darn well knew the history of it, da yah not agree? MAYBE not! As for *prayers*...they're allowed to be recited. Recite them...when you finish your prayer, wherever you're. When I say God asks to not have other people mentioned in his House of worships, does that mean you can't utter a word in somebody else's in the Mosques? NO, it means during the PURPOSE of the Mosque(Salat, of course)! Lets not manipulate the minds, shall we? I send prayers and blessings on the Prophet and All those who believe, but I do so...AFTER I pray(because they do not belong in the prayers!) I pray, especially for Prophet Muhammad(pbuh)...because i'm grateful to him to ALL that he brought to ME, especially! I pray for other Prophets because they're the Prophets of GOD who brought so much to those before me! I pray for the believers...because they deserve it for they're those who BELIEVE! However, it'd be a grave sin to pray for them in the SALATS! Salats are something you do FOR GOD...from YOUR soul(and NOBODY else!) It has NOTHING, and I say NOTHING to do with any other soul(may it be the Prophet or any other soul!) I asked you a question...and you answered the following; "i say to ahmed that i fully believe all the quranic verses and the quran is complete, but i also believe the prophet's sunna and sayings, just as you believe what that jew rabbi said and what your own explanations and mistranslation of the quran which lead you to believe your conjectures." Hahahaha! DO you see your problem, yah brothah? I believe with all my heart---that the Jew is corrupted...and that I could be MISTAKEN in EVERYTHING I SAY OR DO! Thus, you believe the same about Sunnah, right? I have my answer! :) Germani, Yecvud de Alle, salamatik! You said that I refer to myself in the salat? LOL!hahahah! DO I? This is what I just said to Umar, listen to it, deeply; "Salats are something you do FOR GOD...from YOUR soul(and NOBODY else!) It has NOTHING, and I say NOTHING to do with any other soul(may it be the Prophet or any other soul!)" The prayer is salvation for the soul---it's not a worldy prayer or gain. God tells us in the Qur`an that it strengthens our hearts against sin! I could never ask in the prayers anything of a personal gain! For you to tell me that I do *pray* in the Salat for me...is amazingly strange, don't yah think so?(if not, enlighten me!) To; Walaalkiin, Walaal, waxaad tiri: "Nebi Maxamed Calayhi Salaatu Wa Salaamu: Wuxuu ahaa nin aan waxna qorin waxna akhrin Qur'aanka Mucjisadiisana waxaa ka mid ah in uu ku soo degay nin UMMI ah." Mar hore miyaynaan kawada hadlin taas? Aniga ma`ahi nin weji ka raba Yehud iyo Nasaro---Qur`aanku mucjiso buu yahay Nebigoo UMMI ahayn! Hadii aad u malaysid in Qur`aanku *mucjiso* yahay sababtoo ah Nebigaa Ummi ahaa, adaa cirka roob ku og! Mida kale, aniga waxaan aaminsanahay in Anbiyada Alle oo dhan ay wadeen wixii ALLE u soo dhiibay. Aniga macaabudo Nebi Maxamed(scw)...waxaan caabudaa kii asaga, Ibraahiim, Musa, Ciisaa, iyo kuwii kaleba wax u soo dhiibay. Waa run, waxaan maanta raacaa wixii MAXAMMAD(scw) loo soo dhiibay! Tan aad leedahay Yehud baad *daliil* ka dhigatayna, waa wax ayaga ku saabsan...ma`ahan wax aniga igu saabsan. Fadlan, Walaal, wax ha isku darin. Aniga ninka uma soo daliilshan inaan raaco say u tukan jireen...laakiin inaan wixii diida INAY tukan jireen tuso INAY tukan jireen. Mar kale, waxaad iga dhigaysaa nin aan *raacin* sunnada Nebiga(scw)!hahaha! SUNNI baanan raacin wax kasta oo ay dhahaan waa *sunnada* nebiga, taas micnaheeda miyaa inaaanan raacin sunnada??? Aaahay, Kiristaamayaasha iyo Yehudu waxay na dhahaan ma raacno MUSAA IYO CIISAA...taas micnaheeda miyaa inaynaan raacin? Aahey, warka horey baan u maqlay, Walaalkiis! Mida kale, Walaal, ama cid kale la safo...ama ha la safan, aniga shalay saad walaalkay u ahayd(baad welina walaalkay u tahay!) Taas macnaheeda ma`ahan inaan wax isku raacno. Meeshaan dadka imaada YASKA baa jira qof aan ka dhaartey inaan dib dambe wax ula sheegto/doodo...welina waa walaalkay. Marka, la safadkaada...waa isugu kay mid aniga. Markii horena aniga wax ba iimaadan hayn(hadii aad ila safnaydna...Ilaah dartii bay kaa ahayd) hadana hadii aad cid kale la safato...waa isugu kay mid! Sidaa daraadeed, dhinacayga weli *Walaalkiin* baad ka tahay! :) Annonymous, I agree with you, mostly, but why don't yah be un-annonymous? :) Nur, Brother, I was only joking. To make it *full stop*; NO! So, teach me...before I tell you if and if not *i believe* in it! :) Ramadan Mubarak to all those who believe! Peace, Ahmad!
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| | Unrecorded Date the whole point of fatiha is this: ahmed relies on ibnu katir for his prove that fatiha was given to prophet adam, but ibnu katir in his tafsir does not say that the Fatiha was given to Adam, so where is ahmed getting this information from? so since ibnu katiir and sunni muslims do not believe that the prophet adam was given the fatiha, yet ahmed relies on an Ancient-Hebrews corrupted books which ahmed can't even tell us where the fatiha is written on. thefore, ahmed says, these people prayed just like us(and read the fatiha). now, since ahmed can't produce from the quran that the anceint-hebrews recited fatiha and since his tafsir from ibnu katiir, which he said adam was given the fatiha was wrong, isn't ahmed must be following his own hadeeth or sunna, apart from the suna of the prophet mahammmed? i mean, why does ahmed say he only follows what is in the quran, but then goes on to follow his own sunna, his own non-existence ibnu katiir tafsiir, and even the corrupted "Ancient-Hebrews(Children of Israel) books that does not even have the fatiha in it? now, if the corrupted ancient hebrews books had quranic fatiha, ahmed would have produced it, but his excuse is that he said the jews lost it and then arabs found it, then corrupted the fatiha in prayers, then prophet mahammed recited it with additional two more verses. i mean, where is all this information is found that ahmed believes? is it in the quran that he said he only follows? ahmed can't say. therefore, ahmed denies one sunna, but really follows another sunna, but he claims to follow only the quran.! i mean the information is not found in the quran and the prophet mahammed in his saying didn't say the fatiha was given other people before us and the verse that talks about the seven repeated verses of fatiah does not say it was given to adam or the people between adam and mahamed; rather that verse specifically says Allah gave it to mahammed. then, isn't he must be believing something other than the quran for which there is nothing else to collaborate the quran or the suna of the prophet about ahmed's claim abuot fatiha? I wonder if ahmed knows about this, his following something else. if he does not, then he must be in a cult-mentality which is making him see not his own misguided sunna! about the prayers(duca) in salaat, ahmed said that "When I say God asks to not have other people mentioned in his House of worships, does that mean you can't utter a word in somebody else's in the Mosques? NO, it means during the PURPOSE of the Mosque(Salat, of course)! Lets not manipulate the minds, shall we? I send prayers and blessings on the Prophet and All those who believe, but I do so...AFTER I pray(because they do not belong in the prayers!)" now, it is clear that ahmed does not know there are angels that always in constantly worship(prayer) of Allah, bowing, prostrating. I mean the angels whole spirit beings is just worship, yet Allah said that angels send their blessings upon to the prophet mahammed. then, why ahmed believes that the muslim are worshiping the prophet if they send him blessing while in worship of Allah? is ahmed also saying the angels also commit shirk whenever they send blessing upon the prophet mahammed? I mean where did he get the information that says it is not allowed to send blessing to the prophet while in worship When the angels do it, especially when Allah Himself is saying to the muslims send your blessings also upon the prophet mahammed and salute him with a goodly salutation? I mean there is no any other better time for sending a goodly salutation upon the prophet than when we are in the worship Of Allah...angels do it all the times since they are in worship of Allah all the times, why not us? "Verily Allah and His angels send their blessings upon the prophet. O you believe! Send your blessings also upon him and salute him with a goodly salutation" where does it say in the quran you can't send blessings to the prophet while praying, ahmed? somebody else, other than Allah and His prophet, is telling ahmed not to send blessing to the prophet while in worship.
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| | Unrecorded Date now ahmed asked me a question. he said: "Please, Brother, tell me that you believe the Qur`an is FULL of wisdom...and that EVERY explanation is in there for us...and that it is FULLY DETAILED AND COMPLETE and that it is FREE of ANY other Book. Declare this to me, if you believe that! AND, if not, i'm sure...there won't be anything to go on, as I BELIEVE all that!" then, "i say to ahmed that i fully believe all the quranic verses and the quran is complete, but i also believe the prophet's sunna and sayings, just as you believe WHAT that jew rabbi said and what your own explanations and mistranslation of the quran say which lead you to believe your conjectures." then, ahmed said "I believe with all my heart---that the Jew is corrupted...and that I could be MISTAKEN in EVERYTHING I SAY OR DO!" yet, eventhought he has not seen it, ahmed follows and agrees with the jews sayings about the fatiha in their prayers and without prove or collaboration source with the quran and the sunna of the prophet! but, did ahmed think i believed that he was a mistake free?! then, ahmed asked: "Thus, you believe the same about Sunnah, right?" i say to ahmed that i believe the sunna of the prophet without a doubt, because it is part of faith for me to believe that mahamadan rasulu-Allah and if i believe this, i must follow the sunna of the prophet and his saying about the salaat. then, ahmed concluded "I have my answer! :)" let's see it.
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| | Unrecorded Date Ahmed. I could not wait any longer my freind:- 1- Can we WE QUOTE THE BIBLE?. 2- Can you point in which chapter in the bible or the towrah FATIHA or what looks like it, can be found?. 3- Can we prefer SOME AHADITH over to the BIBLE?.. 4- Which AHADITH oppose the quran?... 5- Given "alxub fillah and albugdhi fillaah" can WE QUOTE ANY LOST GROUP such as SUBMITTERS?.
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| | Unrecorded Date Asalama Alaykum! Umar, Brother, once again, you're insulting your intellegence. Have I ever told you that the *fatiha* was in the Rabbi's book or that he said Ancient-Hebrews recited it? hahah! You see, you keep killing yoursel in everything you say. The main purpose of bringing the book was for YOU to see that the Ancient-Hebrews prayed EXACTLY as we do. This has nothing to do with what they said in their salats. IN FACT, the Rabbis say that the Ancient-Hebrews said things in their Salat that REALLY contradict the Qur`an. SUCH as "O` Elohim, G-d on High, do not make our hearts weak to evil as our MOTHER!"(meaning EVE---what a wicked world!) and another thing that ONLY Men *said* in their salats, as the Rabbis say, "Elohim, Blessed is Thee who has not made me a woman. Glory is to you in the morning and the evening and all that is between!" (meaning that women are wicked, naturally! God's wrath is upon the unbelievers!) HAVE you ever heard any more contradicting the Qur`an than those *sayings*? SO, why would I reffer you to *what* they said in their Salat??? I was reffering to the ACTIONS in the diagram! What is in diagram(What to say...or what to do?) Please, don't forget, this book is from the *Mishnah*(it was derived from it)...and since the *mishnah* came before the Qur`an, it's interesting source for the past. Point one: WE KNOW that they established Salat. God tells us so in 5.12, however, God didn't tell us WHAT actions they took as to how they prayed...and this book provides us that. We know they didn't copy from the Muslims(if you'd argue that..) because Mishnah was even alive in the time of Jesus(pbuh). Point two: WE KNOW that they lost the Salat. God tells us so in 19.59! AND, this book is proof of that...since they do not have *different* thing to say in the Prayers than we have today. SO, they sure lost it. This book also agrees with the Qur`an; saying that Hebrews lost the Salat...and that it's now a practice of the *ancient* haha! In the Chapter Mary, God tells us that! "[19.59] But there came after them an evil generation, who neglected prayers and followed and sensual desires, so they win meet perdition," after God talks about the Prophets! So, they DID lose it. They also lost the Hajj...and even their HOLY BIBLE is witness of this. You don't believe the Qur`an now, Umar? HOWEVER, the Arabian Pagans did NOT lose it, they corrupted it. God tells us that; "[8.35] And their prayer before the House is nothing but whistling and clapping of hands; taste then the chastisement, for you disbelieved." They corrupted it...hahaha! I wonder when you'll *get* the difference! :) As for your saying that I said the Qur`an added a verse to the Fatiha, this was ONLY Abdullah Ali's idea---which I DO NOT agree with! As for me to follow part of the Sunnah and deny another---this is because people corrupted the Sunnah! I only believe and take as a true hadiths ONLY those that agree with the Qur`an. Same with the Bible and other History! SO, quit going back and forth in the same thing...and come up with some argument that is better than this! As for the Angels, hahahah....ANGELS only are in Salat all the time???HAHAHAHAHA! LOL! Brother, Angels RUN the Universe for God. They kill souls, give souls, help you walk safe, help you sleep, help you get up, help you eat without being chocked, help the rain fall down, help the grass grow, they bring revelations, they make earth-quakes, they create things...and you say they're foreverly in Salat??? There is different between *worship* and *SALAT* ya Umar. Worship is to even remember God, worship to pray to God....WORSHIP also is to establish Salat, fast, make hajj, etc. SO, what makes you think that Angels are constant *salat*??? Puhleeez, lets NOT manipulate the minds, shall we? I send BLESSINGS on the Prophet and the Believers, as God and his Angels do, and I don't think i'm in shirk. HOWEVER, I know there is a PLACE for everything! You asked me where it is in the Qur`an that tells us to not send blessing on the prophet while on Prayer. Try this; "[72.15] And as to the deviators, they are fuel of hell: [72.16] And that if they should keep to the (right) way, We would certainly give them to drink of abundant water, [72.17] So that We might try them with respect to it; and whoever turns aside from the reminder of his Lord, He will make him enter into an afflicting chastisement: [72.18] And that the mosques are Allah's, therefore call not upon any one with Allah: [72.19] And that when the servant of Allah stood up calling upon Him, they wellnigh crowded him (to death). [72.20] Say: I only call upon my Lord, and I do not associate any one with Him. [72.21] Say: I do not control for you evil or good." *Deviators*...who stand up for Salats---and mention others with God??? I wonder who those are! hhhmmm...oh, i can think of some! :) SO, do we have anybody today who is *Muslim* who stands up in prayer and calls somebody else in the prayers??? Anybody who *thinks* the Prophet is as high as God to mention him in the Salat with him, as the Prophet controls for *evil or good* for them??? WHO think their salat is not *accepted* without sending blessings on the Prophet in their Salats??? Who think they don't *love* the Prophet if they don't pray for him IN the Salats? Lets get real! Idol-worship...comes in all-sizes! Call to mind the Christians, they accuse of the Muslims of not loving Jesus...because Muslims don't believe that he is the Son of God. Hhhmm...examples, people, examples; QUR`AN is full of Wisdom, but is there anyone who mind? ALSO, Umar, I too believe the Sunnah of the Prophet without doubt. I also believe the Taurat and Injiil without a doubt. THIS was never, is never, and will NEVER be the issue! ALSO, I know I must follow the Sunnah...and I do. Was that ever the issue? THE issue is that I don't think the Qur`an needs the Sunnah to be complete...or that the *sunnah* of the sunnis is 100% the sunnah of the Prophet...or that the Sunnah is *Protected* as the Qur`an is protected! LA, wa LA...wa alfu marrah LA! Bashir, I see there is at least one victim of Umar's distortion! Sorry, BRO, don't ask me what you QUOTED from Umar---ask me what you quoted from ME! :) Can we quote the BIBLE? Yes, if it agrees with the Qur`an...if it doesn't, you can't. Where is the fatiha in the Bible? DID I tell you it was?haha! PLEASE, make sure...who you quote. Can we prefer some ahadith over to the Bible? KEEP in mind that they're BOTH corrupted by men. SO, if there is a hadith that does NOT agree with the Qur`an, but there is a verse that agrees with the Qur`an in the bible. YES, you can take the verse...and forget the hadith. SAME the other way around! Can we quote the Submitters??? I quote them, as I quote the Qur`an. That is when they agree with the Qur`an. So, quote them...if they agree with the Qur`an. As I said trillion times, the Qur`an is superior to anything else. May it be Bible, Hadith, or just normal history. If it doesn't agree, that thing is a goner...if it does, it is saved! Ramadan Kariim! Peace, Ahmad!
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| | Unrecorded Date Asalama Alaykum! Umar(and others) I will be busy for this and the next coming weeks, as everyone in my job is going off to X-mas/New Year. Thus, alot of work must be done. ANYWAY, I will come here at least once a day...however, my time will be very limited. I hope you won't mind if I don't find enough time to answer right away! Peace and love to all those who believe, Ahmad!
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| | Unrecorded Date Ahmed. I don't mind quoting UMAR. After all we are in this game together. However, I noticed that you were trying to outrun us by qouting alien stories and ideas that were not in the essence of the debate. So, to put the debate back on track, I rearranged the scattered questions around to keep you more focussed since I thought you had an attention deficit proplem(no wonder you talk about rabbis when we need the verses). To add an insult to injury, everybody is an idiot or insulting his intelligence. Or even stranger, nobody except you has the right to question as he pleases(remember you threatened to pull out if I express myself the way I want). Ahmed, I know you enough already to see your personality through your postings. At least you have a sense of humour if nothing else.
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| | Unrecorded Date My bothers..... Does Suffi(s) aren't SUNNI ? NACLATU ALLAHI CALAL KATHIBIIN....
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| | Unrecorded Date so in all exhaustion, my questions of FATIHA and ahmed's lack for answers, we have here no record of FATIHA written somewhere that ahmed could produce. All ahmed could say is that the children of israel recited FATIHA(minus two verses), then lost it(no evidence of where he got this information from), arabs had the FATIHA, but corrupted it and instead whistled in their prayers(again no record of in the quran was given by ahmed that arabs recited FATIHA), then ahmed said somebody told him that inbu katir's tafsir says adam recited FATIHA(but again no such thing exist in ibnu katir's tafsir). So, what is left for ahmed to say is that the people before us prayed as if I said they didn't perform prayers. all i was asking of him is where he got his information that says FATIHA(minus last two verses) were recited in the time of adam in prayers and that the children of israel lost the FATIHA in their prayers, as ahmed says. as we can see, ahmed has no answer for the FATIHA question. So this means that we have to only accept ahmed's own made up story(his own hadeeth, if you wil), but he expects us just like that to accept his story, that is all--without evidence just, even-though he keep saying to us he only follows quran alone. thus, who is here the one that is insulting our intelligent? i mean if there is NO whatsoever one shred of record or evidence of the FATIHA(minus two verses) being recited by the old genaration of the children of israel and prophet adam in the quran or no where else, then why ahmed is saying he "only believes and take as a true hadiths ONLY" when "that agree with the Qur`an"? so, he says to himself "Lets not manipulate the minds" now, after asking ahmed to give me an evidence from the quran where it tells us to not send blessing on the prophet while praying, he said "Try this; "[72.15] And as to the deviators, they are fuel of hell: [72.16] And that if they should keep to the (right) way, We would certainly give them to drink of abundant water, [72.17] So that We might try them with respect to it; and whoever turns aside from the reminder of his Lord, He will make him enter into an afflicting chastisement: [72.18] And that the mosques are Allah's, therefore call not upon any one with Allah: [72.19] And that when the servant of Allah stood up calling upon Him, they wellnigh crowded him (to death). [72.20] Say: I only call upon my Lord, and I do not associate any one with Him. [72.21] Say: I do not control for you evil or good." now, in ibnu katiir's tafsiir and others, they explained those ayahs this way, not the way ahmed believes: you see, the ayah "And that the mosques are Allah's, therefore call not upon any one with Allah", the tafsir reads: "masajid here means acts of adoration, not places of worship", for muslims do not only perform their salaats in the masjids. and, in the other ayah of "And that when the servant of Allah stood up calling upon Him, they wellnigh crowded him (to death)." , the tafsirs explain it this way: : "when the servant of Allah stood up Him" was when the prophet mahamed and his followers(muslims) stood up for prayer, the prophet and his followers received rough treatment at the hands of the arab pagan crowd at Taif. and, in the other ayah of "Say: I only call upon my Lord, and I do not associate any one with Him", the tafsir explains that the prophet was told by Allah to simply say to those arab pagans "i call upon Allah and do not associate anyone with Him" and the next ayah continues in the same manner where Allah is addressing His prophet and the muslims to say to the arab pagans "I do not own for you power of hurt nor a benefit" and that "none can protect me from Allah, nor can I find besides Him any refuge" in the prophet's mission to preach islam and that the prophet and his follower's only refuge from all kinds of trouble and difficult in the prophet's way, but all he could do is to obey Allah's orders, becuase in the next ayah the prophet continues to say "mine is but preaching from Allah and His message and whosoever disobeys Allah and His messenger, his portion is the Hell-fire, abiding there for ever" as you can see, in no where Allah said in those quranic ayats you can't send blessings upon the prophet mahammed. so, who do we believe and telling the truth or lying against Allah's true quranic meaning, ahmed or the mufasiriin? you see, the ayah of Allah # 72:14 says: "And of us some are *Muslims*, and some are *deviators. Then whose has embraced *Islam*---such have endeavored after a path of rectitude" now, the tricks of kufars(the enemy of muslims and islam) in their misleading way have someone like ahmed who bought their tafsiir of the quran, so here he comes like a blind-follower with his misleading tafsiir which he received from the enemy of muslims and islam and he says that "*Deviators*...who stand up for Salats---and mention others with God??? when in fact, the true meaning and tafsiir of that ayah above is: "And some are Muslims"(those who have come to accept Allah, His messenger, the true doctrine of the holy quran and the sunna of the prophet), but "some are deviators"(those who are far from the right course and did not accept Allah, His messenger, the true doctrine of the holy quran and the sunna of the prophet, so "then whosoever has embraced Islam---such have endeavored after a path of rectitude"
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| | Unrecorded Date ahmed says that angels are not always in prayers(salaat). we have albukaari/muslim books that tell us there are angels who are always in rukuuc and some of them in sujuud and some of them in qiyaama(standing). but i'm going to wait till ahmed comes back from his busy schedule and then we can continue the issue of sending blessing upon the prophet while in prayers and the angels. then maybe ahmed can tell us how does he know that there are some angels who are NOT in sujuud always and other that are NOT in rukuuc always and some that are in qiyaama always then, i'll inshaAllah produce those sayings of the prophet where he said there are angels who are always in prayers without stop.
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| | Unrecorded Date AW-CALI. Suufiyadu waa dad wareersan oo sida axmadoo kale wax walba wax ka qaata. Greek philosofy,budhism,sikhism,bible, everything works for them. Plus they have weird believes about ALLAH too that I don't want get into detail here. teeda kale dadka aad nacladeyso adiga yeysan kugu soo noqon. Suufi urkeeda iyo wareerkeeda soomaaliyaa looga soo cararey. LABAATANKII SANO EE UGU DAMBEEYEY WAAD HURUDEY BAAN U MALEYNAYAA.
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| | Unrecorded Date ahmed said that "I too believe the Sunnah of the Prophet without doubt and then "I know I must follow the Sunnah...and I do. Was that ever the issue? THE issue is that I don't think the Qur`an needs the Sunnah to be complete...or that the *sunnah* of the sunnis is 100% the sunnah of the Prophet...or that the Sunnah is *Protected* as the Qur`an is protected! LA, wa LA...wa alfu marrah LA!" ahmed is saying muslims are saying the quran needs the sunna, but what he does not understand is that muslims believe that the quran is complete and needs nothing and Allah needs nothing, but Allah sent the quran and the prophet who explains the quran which is called sunna. the quran is complete and needs no help, as Allah needs no help, but Allah did not send quran alone; Allah send a messanger who can explain and show the people how to worship and follow the message and the messanger, so the issue ahmed is doubting is the transmitted sunna(the practice) of the prophet in acts of worship, like the calling of the ADAAN where it is reported that bilaal used to call the adaan *in the masjid* saying Allahu Akbar, Alaahu Akbar, ashadu an laa ilaaha ila Allah, ashhadu an laa ilaaha ila Allah, wa ashadu ana mahammadan rasuulu-Allah, wa ashadu ana mahammadan rasuulu-Allah.... this sunna of the prophet i do not doubt, and that is the issue and ahmed never heard from me(umar) that i said that the quran is not *protected*. all other scriptures of Allah, including the injiil and torah, were unprotected, but i believe that the is quran the only scripture that is protected. so, if ahmed is saying that bilaal never said ashahadu ana mahammandan rasuulu-Allah while calling the adaan in the *masjid*, then ahmed has his own other sunna to disprove this, for there is no where in the quran or sunna of the prophet that says bilaal could not and didn't say these words while calling the adaan in the *masjid*.
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| | Unrecorded Date i have one question. as the title of this topic says, "AHMED from free-minds (the submitters)", i was wondering if the the free-minds and the submitters are the same or different? that is why i wrote up there "if ahmed is saying that bilaal never said ashahadu ana mahammandan rasuulu-Allah while calling the adaan in the *masjid*, then ahmed has his own other sunna to disprove this, for there is no where in the quran or sunna of the prophet that says bilaal could not and didn't say these words while calling the adaan in the *masjid*." nevertheless, since ahmed is saying that the companions of the prophet, including bilaal, were commiting shirk by sending their blessings upon the prophet while prayering, then the same applies here since ahmed has his own other sunna to disprove what the comanions of the prophet did because there is no where in the quran that says the companions of the prophets and all muslims for that matter were and are wrong and committing shirk to send their blessing upon the prophet mahammed while in salaat. properly, ahmed is going to say he gave prove that disproves the act of sending blessing while in prayer, but misleading tafsiir he presented in those ayats of Allah did not show anything that prohibs about the sending blessing upon the prophet while praying. but, i wonder if ahmed has any legitimate prove, other than his own midguided sunna or tafsiirs that properly came from the enemies of islam
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| | Unrecorded Date ASALLAMU ALLAYKUM ALL; Questions I have asked Ahmed and its subsequent answers, Question: Ahmed, I wonder if you know about the concept of "NASKH WA TANSIIKH"? Answer: Do I know it? Is there anyone who doesn't? Question: You haven’t told me whether you (AHMED) know it or not? I will ask it again: Ahmed, do you know about the concept of "NASKH WA TANSIIKH"? If NO full stop. If YES then, Do you believe in it? Ahmed’s Answer: Brother, I was only joking. To make it *full stop*; NO! So, teach me...before I tell you if and if not *i believe* in it! :) Ahmed, I must say that you have a weird sense of humor, and forgive me if I do not think it is funny at all to joke about AQIIDAH matters, I remember telling you, in another place, to learn more about Islamic belief and its knowledge, specially learning at the source, before you attempt to makes such big academic statements. I see that message have not got through to you. Instead, you continued to follow shallow understandings coated over by Biblical quotations and continued with your ever more complacent attitude towards Qur’an! Let us look some of Ahmed’s desultory understanding towards Qur’an; Ahmed you said; “In the Chapter Mary, God tells us that! "[19.59] But there came after them an evil generation, who neglected prayers and followed and sensual desires, so they will meet perdition," after God talks about the Prophets! So, they DID lose it. They also lost the Hajj”...and even their HOLY BIBLE is witness of this” Although the translation says, “neglected”, you understood it to be some thing irrecoverably lost, as you say “! So, they DID lose it” What is going on here? Discover your false logic and the fallacy in your thinking. And then why do not you continue to read the verse that directly follows this verse, (the two verses together) read like this; "[19.59] But there came after them an evil generation, who neglected prayers and followed and sensual desires, so they will meet perdition," [19.60] Except those who repent and believe, and work righteousness: for these will enter the Garden and will not be wronged in the least, How can you repent and come back to perform some thing that you have, according to your understanding, IRRECOVERABLY LOST? Discover your false logic and the fallacy in your thinking Let us take another one; You said; “HOWEVER, the Arabian Pagans did NOT lose it, they corrupted it. God tells us that; "[8.35] And their prayer before the House is nothing but whistling and clapping of hands; taste then the chastisement, for you disbelieved." They corrupted it...hahaha! I wonder when you'll *get* the difference! :)” This comes back to the whole question of, how much do you know about the (NAFY) in Arabic, and how much do you understand about (NEGATION) in English? Allah has NEGATED that there was prayers before the house, and has CONFIRMED that there were “WHISTLING AND CLAPPING OF HANDS” which the Arabs called it prayers. Like the Hindus, Buddhists and others call their meditations prayers, do you (AHMED) call those meditations corrupted prayers? Discover your false logic and the fallacy in your thinking; Then there is the whole question of quoting and taking confirmations from the Bible and Talmud; if you knew about the concept of "NASKH WA TANSIIKH" which simply means ABROGATION, ABOLITION AND ANNULMENT of all other Books which preceded Qur’an, then you will understand how the concept of "NASKH WA TANSIIKH" makes all your reasoning in this particular matter highly irrelevant! Please don’t you confuse this with the believe in the Books of God! That is a separate matter all together. Read the following ayah; 1.106. None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things? Once more discover your...., actually LEARN about the concept of "NASKH WA TANSIIKH" before you discover your false logic and the fallacy in your thinking. Ramadan kariim.
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| | Unrecorded Date Asalama Alaykum! Umar, What is up with you? You posted four messages withing four hours...you don't have to panic, we're only discussing, Umar! You can post all of your post in one post...no need to run around!hahah! God willing, brother, I hope you're alright! Also, forget about my busy schedule...I told you to not worry about it since I would be here at least once a day. So, don't bother holding anything(questions, etc)...just don't write ten different messages---write them all in one...for me to get it all in one, Bro. Hahahah! Umar, did I tell you that I believe all the Bukhari/Muslim hadiths??? Please, hear what people tell you! I DON'T! So, ask me before you quote for me! I think Bukhari/Muslim(OR any other hadith books) are really as corrupted as the Bible itself; I can bear witness to this, as I can bear witness to God's Messanger in Muhammad(pbuh)! ALSO, Umar, please, don't manipulate the minds; MUHAMMADAN RASULLULAH is part of the message of Shahadah! I'm not submitters/Freebie-minders who think it's *shirk* to declare that. SO, that kabuts that. Saying Muhammadan Rasullulah does not, in ANYWAY, commit shirk...as long as it is declared, OPENLY! PLEASE, also, don't forget, it's part of the *shahadah* to declare to others in regards of *where* we stand. Also, this does not benefit anybody but own soul---however, praying for the Prophet puts in the salat a benefit for the ANOTHER soul(s)(even if the Prophet and Believers)...and salat is something you do for God from your own soul---and from no one else. I see you keep forgetting that I AM MUSLIM...who believes in the SUNNAH, even if I don't think all of the Sunni's version of the Sunnah is the *Sunnah*. Get this through your head, Brother Umar. As for saying the Companions of the Prophet recited *prayers* for the Prophet in the Salat, I think this is PURE fabricated version of versions. I don't believe what people fabricated against the righteous. If i did, I would believe all of the Bible and the wicked events that it writes against my own Prophets! AND, if you or anyone else is so keen to believe *everything* that is said to be *sunnah*...then be my guest. You have your way, and I have my way...and there is a God who will tells us who and who is not right in His own day of Judgement. You wait, as I, too, am those who wait! As for me saying that SUNNIS think the Qur`an is in-complete, please reflect upon the following: Al-Baani says in one his speaches(from Doha, Qader, in Ramadan of 1392 A.H.); "we are certain that there is no way to understand the Qur'an correctly except in association with the interpretation of the Sunnah." This speach is by the way...printed couple years later! He bring examples(five examples)...but that doesn't justify his comment. I believe that there came SUNNAH which explained the Qur`an, but NEVER in my wild dreams...could I EVER believe the Qur`an is not understandable without that. There is NO WAY to understand the Qur`an without the SUNNAH??? My God, what an evil vile scheme! The Qur`an IS made EASY---I'm sure Al-Bani couldn't MISS that. Why would the Qur`an be ankle-wrapped with the Sunnah??? The Qur`an can't be understood without the SUNNAH??? It can't stand without the Sunnah, in other words! Oh, it makes me sick that someone claims to be Muslim and then can say such thing. God promised that the Qur`an is made easy for us. God repeats; "54.17 And We have indeed made the Qurán easy to understand and remember: then is there any that will receive admonition? 54.22 But We have indeed made the Qurán easy to understand and remember: then is there any that will receive admonition? 54.32 And We have indeed made the Qurán easy to understand and remember: then is there any that will receive admonition? 54.40 And We have indeed made the Qurán easy to understand and remember: then is there any that will receive admonition?" WHO is more evil than he who says..."NO, the Qur`an can't be understood without the Sunnah"??? Is God saying "we made the Qur`an easy WITH the Sunnah"??? Who is more truthful? A human being---WHO is due to mistake and corrupt...or the God who created him??? This is the SIMILAR crap that Jews make against the Torah...read on; Jewish scholar Hyam Maccoby, in 'Judaism on Trial,' quotes Rabbi Yehiel ben Joseph: "Further, without the Talmud, we would not be able to understand passages in the Bible...God has handed this authority to the sages and tradition is a necessity as well as scripture. The Sages also made enactments of their own...anyone who does not study the Talmud cannot understand Scripture." The Talmud, supposedly, is the *sunnah* of the Prophet Moses(pbuh) CAN you learn anything from this? I have! Good luck! As for the IBN KATHIR, as I said before, the ONLY reason I quoted him...was you're Sunni; thus believe in his translations. What is the meaning of the word *qa`asiduuna*??? As for you not wanting to see the light in the verses, i have seen the similar before. Jesus, NEVER, ever, EVER, said in the Gospel that he's the *son of God*---and we have BILLIONS today who think he did(due to *commentors*). SO, i'm never ever surprised anything, Umar! You said; [So, what is left for ahmed to say is that the people before us prayed as if I said they didn't perform prayers. all i was asking of him is where he got his information that says FATIHA(minus last two verses) were recited in the time of adam in prayers and that the children of israel lost the FATIHA in their prayers, as ahmed says.] NO, Brother, we were arguing how the people before us *established salat EXACTLY how we do* I was reffering to the diagram! I told you nearly five times that I DID NOT tell you that there is a fatiha in any Book of the Jews/Christians. I told you...that my own logic believes if Adam recieved(WHICH I believe he did)...then that must mean every other generations before us did...since we, too, recieved it! Adam is not the main purpose here...it's you who is making it. THE POINT is that Salat was established by the Ancient-Hebrews as WE DO! And EXACTLY how we do it. If the actions match, what we say must have matched also. From the Book of the Rabbi, our actions MATCH! And, the Book came from the Mishnah/Talmud...books that were written BEFORE the Qur`an. AS for the Pagan-Arabs, read the posts again...and get your infos about "Arabian prayers" they recited something similar to Fatiha with more things on it(like Hubal, and the three daughters of God!) However, I always think this book is a work of an angry Arab who just wanted to say Islam is *full* of pagan rituals. Because of Hajj, Salat, and Fasting. Only did he know that they're not Pagan rituals, at all! You guys, first...before you do anything else; LEARN what the Salat is! What is its purpose of existence. Why we do it! When one understands these, one has the option to choose! It's upon all of our shoulders to strife for the Truth. I'm committed to that, i'm sure you're too! :) NUR, Brother, i'm beating against the clock. However, I promise, next time I come here...I'll respond to your message! I had to respond to Umar first...as he posted his(more than one <grin>) before you! Bear with me! :) Happy Ramadan and Happy holy months to all those who believe! Peace, Ahmad!
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| | Unrecorded Date Umar Salaamu Caleykum (Jazakamulaahu kheyran adiga & walaalaha kaleba sida Bashir Abdi, Nur iyo kuwa kaleba). Walaal si cad oo bayaansan ayaad xaqiiqda u taabsiisey ninkan, iskuna daydey inaad wax fahamsiiso. Walaal waxaan umaleynayaa freemind-sku inuu yahay magac bog kaliya (site) kamida ah dhowrka bog (sites) ee aay submitters-ku netka ku leeyihiin sida http://www.free-minds.org/ iyo http://www.moslem.org . Freeminder ayaa loogu yeeraa (naaneystooda) Waxaa kadambeeya Yahuud & gaalo. Waa dadka la rabo in looga hortago ISLAM, mission-koodu waxaa weeye in aay diinta tashuush & shaki ku furaan siduu Axmedba halkan la yimid. Torah & Injiil ayeey soo xigtaan. Qalbi adakaa Axmad! loo sheeg oo loo aqri oo loo nasteexee, oo wax la tus, NIKS..ma socon. Imisa walaalo islaama ayaa ka qeyb qaatey mowduucan, mid kastana waani waxna usheeg Axmed... naga-TÁ!. Nin XAQ raadis ah ma ahan, balse waa nin bidci ah oo lunsan, Walaahu Aclam asaga & muraadkiisa, balse waanu ognahay walaalaha muslimiintana waan uga digayaa. Wuxuu horey uyiri in uu firqo waliba wax uun ka qaato (selecting)!. Xadiisyadana wiixii u cuntamaya wuu qaadan, wixii kale waa "DISTORTED". Salaada in lagu duceysto rasuulkana loogu duceeyo waa shirki (Idol-worshipping). Nin Ani yir, Dad iska saar ayeey soomaalidu tiraa, maa la qabsado waxa somalinet/forums ka buuxa oo dhan. Dafdaftaa ayuu meesha la yimid wuxuu sideyna ama loo soo dhiibayba waa na mari waayeen. Mida kale u fiirsada su'aal kasta oo la weeydiiyo ma kajawaabo amaba bad kale (Torah & Injiil) ayuu kula aadi. brother Nuur su'aashi uu weeydiiyey weli kama jawaabin. That's typical Ahmed. Rabadan Karim
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| | Unrecorded Date Imisa & imisa su'aalo ayaa Axmed ku maqan oo bilaa jawaab ah. Mid ka mid ah su'aalahaas faraha badan oo uu brother Umar weeydiiyey Axmed ayaan halka kusoo qaadanayaa: does ahmed know that there are many verses in the quran that mention prayers(ducooyin) for different people and there is a particular duca(prayer) for our prophet that is in the quran which Allah said to recite(in everywhere, even in the masjid, even in the salaat)? al-ahazab 56: "INA LAAHA WA MALA'IKUHU YUSALUUNA CALA NABIYI YAA AYUHA LADIINA AAMANUU SALUU CALAYHIM WA SALIMUU TASLIIMAN" (posted by umar on Monday, December 20, 1999 - 08:38 am:) JAWAABTOODI MEEDAY? waa su'aal ka mid ah su'aalihii illaa & hadda jawaabaha lahayn.
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| | Unrecorded Date ahmed asked to me to ask him before i quote bukhari/muslim hadiths for him! but what i said to him was that "we(meaning sunnis) have albukaari/muslim books that tell us there are angels who are always in rukuuc and some of them in sujuud and some of them in qiyaama(standing)" then i continued to say that I'll wait till he comes back from his busy schedule and "then we can continue the issue of sending blessing upon the prophet while in prayers and the angels" i mean, does ahmed think that i care whether he believes all the bukhari/muslim hadiths or not, when i already know that he knowingly fabricated lies and created misleading tafsiirs about the ayats of Allah which he says he follows them only?! now, ahmed says to me that the only reason he quoted ibnu katiir for me was because I was Sunni, but that is not correct. in fact, ahmed elected himself to write this: "The commentors of the Qur`an, such as Ibn Katheer, etc...tell us that the words Adam(pbuh) recieved from God are the Fatiha(the Key!); but when I pointed out to him that ibnu katiir did not say such things and that he(ahmed) was falsifying things, then ahmed changed his tune and said "It'll only be another mistake that I made!" and continued to say "I only mentioned him...because Sunnis believe in the commentary of Ibn Kathir---but I myself believe these words are the ones God given to Adam...since it was for repetance and turning to God...same way that we're given the verses and is part of the Salat!" now, how can muslims, including ibnu katiir, believe something that they didn't say or believe themselves? after asking so many times the question of FATIHA and it's evidence, ahmed said something about the FATIHA after presenting no evidence whatsoever this: "I DID NOT tell you that there is a fatiha in any Book of the Jews/Christians. I told you...that my own logic believes if Adam received(WHICH I believe he did)...then that must mean every other generations before us did.." now, this is what i was trying to get when i started my line of questioning ahmed. now it is clear that ahmed believes and follows his own logic, couples with some distorted quranic tafsiirs which is actually his own "sunna" and he elects to discard the sunna of the prophet and what the sunnis muslims in their worship. however, at least, we the sunnis have evidence to back up our sunni belief(hadeeths that agree with the quran) unlike ahmed's own sunna and logic belief.
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| | Unrecorded Date ONE OF AHMED'S BELOVED WEBSITES HAS THIS IN IT. The First Pillar of Islam (Submission): "Laa Elaaha Ellaa Allah" (No god except God) Verse 3:18 states the First Pillar of Islam (Submission): "God bears witness that there is no other god besides Him, and so do the angels and those who possess knowledge." This most crucial pillar has been distorted. Millions of Muslims have adopted Satan's polytheistic version, and insist upon mentioning the name of Muhammad besides the name of God. However, the Quran's great criterion in 39:45 stamps such Muslims as disbelievers: "When God ALONE is mentioned, the hearts of those who do disbelieve in the Hereafter shrink with aversion, but when others are mentioned with Him, they become satisfied." I have conducted extensive research into this criterion, and I have reached a startling conclusion: the idol worshipers who do not uphold the First Pillar of Islam as dictated in 3:18 are forbidden by God from uttering the correct Shahadah. They simply cannot say: "Ash-hadu Allaa Elaaha Ellaa Allah" by itself, without mentioning the name of Muhammad. Try it with any idol worshiper who claims to be a Muslim. Challenge them to say: "Ash-hadu Allaa Elaaha Ellaa Allah." They can never say it. Since this is the religion of Abraham (2:130, 135; 3:95; 4:125; 6:161; 12:37-38; 16:123; 22:78; Appendix 9), the ONLY creed must be "LAA ELAAHA ELLAA ALLAH (there is no god except the One God)". Muhammad did not exist on earth before Abraham. A Gross Blasphemy There is no greater blasphemy than distorting the Quran to idolize the prophet Muhammad against his will. Verse 19 of Sura "Muhammad" (47:19) states: "You shall know that there is no god except the one God." Shown below is a photocopy of the regular logo of a Muslim publicationTHE REVIEW OF RELIGIONS (The London Mosque, 16 Gressenhall Road, London SW18 5QL, England.) Using the Quran's calligraphic style, the publishers of THE REVIEW OF RELIGIONS added the phrase "Muhammad Rasool Allah" in such a way that gives a false impression that such is the Quranic statement of 47:19. What a blasphemy! You shall know that there is no god besides the One God, Allah. Muhammad is a messenger of God. [ The blasphemy ] Typical Example of the Distorted Islam
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| | Unrecorded Date No wander AHMED concludes his messages to THOSE WHO BELIEVE IN since we don't in his view. Many times he mentioned that SUNNIS are not purists. The sad thing is though he DOES NOT HAVE THE COURAGE TO SAY IT LOUD WE ARE NOT MISLIMS since that will render his DISGUISE USELESS. Don't hide behind the sweet talks just say what you believe in so that you don't carry the parden of lying all the time.
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| | Unrecorded Date AHMED. Oh' did I mention that you did not come here to learn anything but to teach us your new way of ISLAM. Sorry! but the title "TO ALL ANTI AHMED" must have been very helpful to the truth seeker like you but not the GARBAGE BELIEVERS like us.
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| | Unrecorded Date And better yet, ahmed starts with his responses that umar is insulting his intelligence or does not get it. Waryaa ciyaal baad tahay baan u maleynayaa. Diinta anaa kaa badiyey maahan e xaqa hala raaco weeye. Aqoon darri waxaa kuugu filan sidad isula qummantahay oo markii lagaa gar leeyahay aad isu maqiiqdo. eeboow yaa ku sirey?..
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| | Unrecorded Date Ansaari. cinwaankaad igu dishey cinwaanka. Macallinka waa sheydaan casri ah. Haddiin arkibo waligey tanoo kale. Waraada diinta in la barto waaye si axmad aas dadka u sirin.
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| | Unrecorded Date salamu calaykum waraxmatulaahi wabarkaatu yaa ikhwatal iimaan, walalahayga u jawaabay wiilkan dhunsan waad mahadsan tihiin ilaahayna cilmiga ha idiin siyaadiyo diinteenana ha inagu ciseeyo aamiin. To, Ahmed walaal ma noogtiid miyaa wali ma beladii baad wadaa yaa sheekh dadka ka fadhiiso oo aduunka shaqo y yeelo hadad rabto waxkugu raca waxa aad wado ama kugu riyaqa ma ka helaysid muslimiinta dhabta ah dhexdooda ee la raadso galadaas mida kale aad ayaad isula wayntahaye bal hadaad quraanka wax ka fahmayso akhriso qisadii QAaruun iyo isla waynidiisi meesha ay ku danbaysiisay waxkalena kuma dhihi karnee ilaahay haku soo hanunyo oo xaqa ha ku tuso. Ilaahayow noo naxariiso oo hanoo qaadin waxa ay sameenayaan sufaaganagu aamiin. walaasalaamu calaaykum. Yaasmiin
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| | Unrecorded Date For ahmed, evrybody insulting his/her intellegence and he is the only "saxsane". Shartiisa Alloow na mooti.
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| | Unrecorded Date Asalama Alaykum! NUR, Brother, I KNOW that I have a weird sense of humor; i agree with you in that! Brother, you gave me advice re-garding *learning*...i'm learning!haha! In my own weird way, I DO! As for the Chapter Mary verse; it says "NEGLECTED"---now, lets see; If the generation after that neglected it; what about the generation after that, and after that, and after that??? When you don't teach your child how to pray...if somebody else doesn't teach him---do yah think his child will know how to pray(or if even Salat exists???) AS for repenting and coming back to it, THEY CAN. It is in their history and the mishnah/talmud for them to see(EVEN if corrupted) that their fore-fathers had established Salat. ONLY now, this generation doesn't think so that they should. They think *it's the custom of the old*...and that they *don't have to* go back to it. SEE, what I mean??? So, did they not lose it or not? My *false* logic sees this as PLAIN as the day-light. AND, you have the right to not see it.haha! As for the Arab-Pagans praying; TRY AGAIN: "[8.32] And when they said: O Allah! if this is the truth from Thee, then rain upon us stones from heaven or inflict on us a painful punishment. [8.33] But Allah was not going to chastise them while you were among them, nor is Allah going to chastise them while yet they ask for forgiveness. [8.34] And what (excuse) have they that Allah should not chastise them while they hinder (men) from the Sacred Mosque and they are not (fit to be) guardians of it; its guardians are only those who guard (against evil), but most of them do not know. [8.35] And their prayer before the House is nothing but whistling and clapping of hands; taste then the chastisement, for you disbelieved. [8.36] Surely those who disbelieve spend their wealth to hinder (people) from the way of Allah; so they shall spend it, then it shall be to them an intense regret, then they shall be overcome; and those who disbelieve shall be driven together to hell." Oh, my *false* logic needs a break! DID you forget that SUFFIS *clap* during their prayers as well...Whenever there is a *trouble*??? They allow that you can "clap"...and continue with your prayer if food is burning, etc...to let someone else know. I find this to be "CLAPPING"...does it matter? the point is that they ESTABLISH prayer...even if they corrupt it. People believe what you believe...what is next? they didn't fast? they didn't make hajj? they didn't pay zakkat? OH, what a wonderful wonderful world! Why do Jews and X-tians accuse Islam of being a "pagan" religion??? Because they KNOW all the rituals were done pre-ISLAM in Arabia. EVERYTHING; salat, hajj, fasting, zakkat, etc. Surely, they were corrupted to the core, but they were rituals that was known to them...and was not a strange thing to them, at all. The very point of Prophet Muhammad's out-cast was that "you shall not worship anyone but ALLAH"---not because he wanted them to *learn* somethings new called *salat, hajj, saum, and zakkat!* AND, this is what history records. Maybe not *sunni* history...but history, at large---and what is more, for anyone who wants to SEE, the Qur`an agrees with them. As for the *concept,*...i'm glad you explained. Because now I can tell you that I don't believe in it. I believe EVERYTHING that agrees with the Qur`an, as a source. I MEAN, everything---even pagan books. The trick with me is...the other MUST agree with the Qur`an! It is very much true that God substituted the Books that were corrupted, but they're STILL very much the Books of God; only corrupted. AND, thus, with the verification of the Qur`an, they can be history and source. Whoever started with the *concept*...sure had alot to hide, `eh? I always wonder what is going to happen to the people who lie against the Prophet. BUT, then again, we have heard nations before them, who were much powerful in wealth and rule, who lied and fabricated stuff from their Prophets and God...whom God did away! Ah, God is Most Just! Bashir, Tsk! Tsk! Tsk! You think I'm *couragless* to be peaceful? You want me to declare Sunnis as *unbelievers*??? hahahah! Sorry, no can do. Sunnis are very much Muslims, but also very much corrupted...same with any other sect; including your *submitters and freebie-minders*(OH, and FYI, I DO like that site...because it makes me *THINK*) Hey, maybe you'd like me to say that *sunnah is satanic verses*...as Khalif Rashada??? haha! Sorry, ask a freebie-minder to do that for yah...:) OH, and FYI...I don't think anybody is a BELIEVER...but those who are Muslims! So, when I say "Those who believe"---don't forget, you're included. So, feel included!haha! Do you really think I'm trying to be in disguise??? When...i'm saying that Sunnis` *most* trusted scholars, such as Al-bani, commited "evil, vile-schemes"??? When i'm keep saying over and over...that SUNNIS(along others) are in "idol-worship" by compramising God's glory with others??? BUT, above all said, I still think Sunnis ARE Muslims. I still think the Sunnah has fabricated hadiths...but it also has MANY of good hadiths. I still call men...who call me "unbeliever" Brothers. I still talk nice to those who DO NOT deserve it. This is all because...I'm MUSLIM! And, I believe, no matter how oppose in *thoughts*...Muslims are brothers---and that for anything, no matter what, that is STILL a fact. Forgive me...if i'm not feeling like declaring people who doesn't deserve it from me as "Unbelievers". As for why i'm here...I did come here to learn...and to share my beliefs also. Cabdiqani, Sheekaba halkaasay isugu timaada, ma`ahan? XAQA! hahah! Uma arko *Xaqa* waxa lagu tuntay anigu...waxaan u arka *xaq* qayb ka mid ah laga dhaxlay..oo qaybihii kale...Ummado kale(sida freebie-minders, shiica, suffis, etc) ay heystaan! Mida kale, Umar...does insult his own intellegence---sababtoo ah...wuxuu la boodayaa wax yaabo aanan ku odhan...oo weli meesha ku qoran(talk about corruption...hahah!) Beyzani, Aar xaa sheegee??? sir minankay lagama yaqaan. Bacowda cuurka leh weydii aan ku dhahay. Mugaaney carabkaada lee cambuuree, Beyzanseta! :) Yaasmiin, In wixii xaq ah la sheegaa la noogaa miyaa??? Wax wax igu raaca iyo wax iigu riyaaqa toona dooni maayo---waxaan rabaa inay dadku helaan fursad ay ku maqlaan wixii XAQ ah. Ka dib intaas, ayagay u taala. Marqaati Alle wuxuu ummada uga dhigay...ummada kale. Sidoo kale aniga islama wayni...mana isla saxni. Meel kasta waxaan dadka u sheegaa inaan ahay mid QALDAMA...oo QALDAMAY KUN JEER iyo ka badan. Sidoo kale, ma ahi mid dadka inta orda dhahaya "gaalo" baa tihiin---waxaa jira kuwo *koob* ku qaatey taas...oo dila wixii ay is-fahmi waayaan, dadka gaalo ugu yeera, etc. I have heard it all---and seen enough! Ramadan Kariim wixii Rumeeyay Alle iyo Rasuulkiisa! Billo barakaysan!(p.s....Bashiir??? you're included) :) Peace, Ahmad!
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| | Unrecorded Date Asalama Alaykum! Umar, Insha Allah, I will respond to your post later(as it needs...more time---and i'm against the clock here!) So, see yah later, Bro! Ramadan Mubarak! Peace, Ahmad!
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| | Unrecorded Date Asalaamu 'aleukum Liman tabica Hudaa; INTRODUCTION of David Samuel Margoliouth !!!!! David was born in London on 17 october 1858 an dead 1940. he was the only son of Ezekiel Margoliouth and Zahra Iglittzki, The fater former Rabbi, become an anglican missinary to the jews. David S. Morgoliouth was therefore a Jew by descent and product of Jewish converters to christianity. Margoliouth wrote extensively on islam, the book which gives a definitive biogrphical study and critique of Muhamed (ppuh) is his "Mohamed and the Rise of Islam". THis work received acclaim from western viewers. As an Oriental scholar, margoliouth wrote extensively almost every subject, he assumed the Laudian Chair of Arabic at University of Oxford in 1889, he held his position until about 1937. I don't want to reflect on these issues(his story about Mohamed (ppuh)) seriously here, but to share with you that What we are going through nowdays in our discussion and their historical background. Let me forward to you some of Margoliouth's though especialy "salat" in his book under the title of "Borrowing"!!!! Margoliouth sink s to the new low in his interpretation of various postures in salah!!! he argues that the "qiyåm" is Jewish, "sujud" Christian and the "julus" a combination of both. He sees Surah al-Fatihah as Modelled on the Paternoster and say that the " teaching of ritual purification before prayer existed in South Arabian communities long before Muhammed.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! all guys don't there hold on ... we are going into rabbi and fathers's zone !!!!!!
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| | Unrecorded Date To: All Muslim brothers and sisters. Assalamu Calaykum Something came up to my attention for the last few days and that is this discussion. After that I read almost all the debate articles posted by both side and I narrowed down to my readings to the articles that Ahmed posted. After reading all the articles of Ahmed, I just remembered an article I had read before regarding to the “Mushtashriqiin” if the Arabic word is right. Mushtashriqiin are people who can come from any nation around the world but they are on the payroll of Jewish. They are trained to learn Islam and go to Islamic Universities in Saudi Arabia or Egypt. Their main aim is to try to influence the average Muslim and convince them in a foolish way that their religion is not true or the right one. These people are well educated, they know both the Christian and Jewish books in addition to the Quran. So, I was wondering whether Ahmed is one of those guys. But what I would suggest is that other good brothers/sisters who is trying to convince him or show the right path, to stop this discussion because he may put “Wis Wis” suspicion about their religion to those minority who have not enough knowledge about their religion. Wasalaamu Calaykum Kusow
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| | Unrecorded Date Yaska. Thanks bro. Ahmed would do very fine for an orientalist known as(mustashriqiin) in arabic. The good thing is, he can't stand in between muslims and their beloved prophet. Who would listen to him when he opens his mouth and says that SALLIGA in the prayer is shirk, or JEWS prayed the same way we do now. Or yet christians have something useful in their books. No wonder they are confused and sworn eithists and CHOOSE their GOD according to the weekend. Now, It would be great if THE SCHOLAR(AHMED) would point the finger to the verses in the bible, towrah,talmud or anything that has SALAT AS KNOWN TO US IN IT. He forgot maybe this is the information age and that people can find anything they want at the click of the mouse. So Mr AHMED, don't waste your time but just point us to the sources and from there we will empark on the mission on our own. By the way we don't want you keep from working for the CHRISTMASS so just point the resources okey? hahahaha I am not surprised if your T'SHIRT says on both sides NO SUNNA,NO SALLI IN ATTAXYAAD BECUASE IT IS KUFR. see ya kiddo.
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| | Unrecorded Date KUSOW. asalaamu caleykum brother. Rest assured that AHMED won't be able to misguide anybody except his sorry SELF(inshallah). We are here to do a service and that is just pointing to the finger his writings and their shortcomings. So far he demeaned himself to a point where he acts SCHYZOFRENIC. Sometimes unable to find a quote and if he does A DISTORTION and LIES about the source is the NORM OF HIS DAY. So don't worry brother. THIS IS AHMED'S MESSAGE. - THE PROPHET IS NOT IMPORTANT SINCE HE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE QURAN.(by claiming we can not use the AHADITH to help us understand if we get stack). -SALLIGA in the ATAXYAD is shirk THUS MAKING US UNBELIEVERS since we are praying for the prophet. -THE JEWISH BOOKS AND THE 60 BOOKS OF THE BIBLE HAVE MORE IMPORTANCE THAN THE PROPHETS SAYINGS(he is giving an excuse SAYING SOME but who will buy that from him). -We can qoute anybody regardless of their stutas in islam THUS THE RIGHT WAY BECOMES COMPROMISED IN THE PROCCESS. -He insulted all MUSLIMS INCLUDING THE SAXABAH BECUASE HE IS THE ONLY MUSLIM IN THIS WORLD AND HIS DEVILS. AND MORE AND MORE. AS LONG AS WE HAVE A CONNECTION TO THE NET AND VISIT THIS WEBSITE WE WILL BE ABLE TO TELL THE TRUTH.
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| | Unrecorded Date Ahmed's backbone MAN. RASHAD KHALIFA: --------------- After more than 12 years of computerized research of Quran, PHYSICAL EVIDENCE was discovered proving that Quran is indeed the infallible word of God. This discovery became very popular among the Muslim masses throughout the world, and summaries of the work were printed and distributed by the millions. My personal popularity soared along with this most exciting, and most humbling, discovery. The continued research then unveiled a startling fact; that the extremely popular "Hadith & Sunna" have nothing to do with the prophet Muhammad, and that adherence thereto represents flagrant disobedience of God and His final prophet (Quran 6:112 & 25:31). This finding contradicts the beliefs of Muslim masses everywhere. Consequently, my personal popularity, and even the popularity of the Quran's miracle, plunged to the point of endangering my life and reputation. As it turned out, telling the Muslims that "Hadith & Sunna" are Satanic inventions is the same as telling the Christians that Jesus is not the son of God. Since the recognition of "Hadith & Sunna" as Satanic innovations is supported by PHYSICAL EVIDENCE, all free-thinking people will accept the findings reported in this book. For such people, the results include a totally new sense of salvation, and full awareness that the Muslim masses have fallen victim to Satan's schemes. Rashad Khalifa August 19, 1982 SO there you go guys AHMED IS A FREE THINKER a jewish lover and THE PROPHET HATER. Don't expect him saying I love the prophet and if he SAYS SO WHO CARES.
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| | Unrecorded Date brother ansaari, jazaka-Allah khayr. i visited these sites http://www.free-minds.org/ iyo http://www.moslem.org that you showed me and what they say about the salaat and what ahmed is saying are identical. like ahmed, they are saying if you make duca for the prophet mahammed while you are in the salaat, you are committing shirk. well, i make duca for myself and all the muslims in the world at least 5 times a day while making my salaat. i say: oh! Allah "ihdina siraadal mustaqiim, siraadal-dal ladiina ancamta calayhim qayril-maqduubi calayhim wala daaliin" then, am i worshiping myself and 1 billion muslims around the world and committing shirk? well, according to ahmed, i'm not but when i make duca for the prophet, then that is the time i'm committing shirk and worshipping him and prophet ibraahim. according to ahmed and http://www.free-minds.org/ iyo http://www.moslem.org , when i say: "Allaahuma sali calaa muxamad wa calaa aali muxamed kamaa salaytu calaa ibraahima wa calaa aali ibraahima Inaka xamiidu Majiid" i'm praying to prophet mahammed, ibraahim and Allah! but if you see that duca, i'm only asking Allah to send His Blessings upon mahammed. "Oh Allah! send your Blessings(and the Holy Words of Yours) upon mahammed and the family of mahammed, as You have send Blessing upon ibraahim and the family of ibraahim. O Allah! You are worthy of all praise, All Glorious" ahmed and his likes http://www.free-minds.org/ iyo http://www.moslem.org are inviting the muslims to compromise the religion of islam, especailly in matters of worship and ahmed and http://www.free-minds.org/ iyo http://www.moslem.org want muslims to agree with them that if you do not want the bible and torah, then you should not also want hadeeths too. Allah said in His holy quran people like ahmed this: "They wish that you should comprimise(in religion out of courtesy) with them, so they(too) would compromise with you" 68:9 but ahmed and http://www.free-minds.org/ iyo http://www.moslem.org(like the arab pagans) are sadly ignorant and they can't preceive that the prophet mahamed( the best teacher) is the best example and his teaching is what muslims must follow and not what ahmed and http://www.free-minds.org/ iyo http://www.moslem.org tells them to do.
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| | Unrecorded Date ASSALLAMU ALLAYKU ALL; Ahmed your previous criteria was not to believe any Hadiith which is, according to your limited understanding and weird way of learning, contradicts the Qur’an. But we now see your transcendental transcend to a higher, though dangerous, dimension. And that is; Every ayyah in the Qur'an that does not agree with your logic, false logic, and may I say your weird way of learning, is also out of the window. I am not surprised when you can not find the evidence Brother Umar have been asking for time and time again, if you would rely on your False logic and say to Umar things like this; “I told you...that my own logic believes if Adam received (WHICH I believe he did)...then that must mean every other generations before us did...since we, too, received it!” You have also employed your False logic again and said to me; “If the generation after that neglected it; what about the generation after that, and after that, and after that??? When you don't teach your child how to pray...if somebody else doesn't teach him---do yah think his child will know how to pray(or if even Salat exists???)” you continued; “AS for repenting and coming back to it, THEY CAN. It is in their history and the mishnah/talmud for them to see(EVEN if corrupted) that their fore-fathers had established Salat. ONLY now, this generation doesn't think so that they should. They think *it's the custom of the old*...and that they *don't have to* go back to it. SEE, what I mean??? So, did they not lose it or not? My *false* logic sees this as PLAIN as the day-light. AND, you have the right to not see it.haha!” Is this the great Mufasir Ahmed who is attempting to explain Quraninc exegesis using his two notable tools namely; false logic and weird way of learning? It was noteworthy while rejecting the exegesis of great Mufasirs like Ibn Kathiir, or great Muxadiths like Bukhari and Muslim to at least be qualified to know the difference between the two Arabic words (ADAACUU) which is the original word in the verse and (DAYYACUU) which you seem to pick it up subconsciously with your infamous learning tools. While the nearest English translation (though not comprehensive) you can find to the word is NEGLECTED but you would normally reflect on the fact that there is an exception to the inference, (NEGLECT AND EXCEPTION) does not constitute general loss, but under normal learning practices, do constitute widespread neglect and exception to that pandemic. Otherwise if we consider your logic, how will you explain the Rabbis who had always the true and the original practice and belief like (Abdullahi Ibn Salaam) and later became Muslims? Allah (swt) has even asked Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) to ask such men who were reading the true book before him. 10.94 If thou wert in doubt as to what We have revealed unto thee, then ask those who have been reading the Book from before thee: the Truth hath indeed come to thee from thy Lord: so be in no wise of those in doubt. Aren’t you also aware that the two verses "[19.59] But there came after them an evil generation, who neglected prayers and followed and sensual desires, so they will meet perdition," [19.60] Except those who repent and believe, and work righteousness: for these will enter the Garden and will not be wronged in the least, Is also true with us (Muslims) where a lot of us have NEGLECTED the prayers, or are you ,with your learning tools, declaring that this verse is not for us Muslims? And to this “Oh, my *false* logic needs a break! DID you forget that SUFFIS *clap* during their prayers as well...Whenever there is a *trouble*??? They allow that you can "clap"...and continue with your prayer if food is burning, etc...to let someone else know. I find this to be "CLAPPING"...does it matter? the point is that they ESTABLISH prayer...even if they corrupt it.” I say; Ahmed you are right, your false logic does need a break (like in crack), and yes it does matter because if you call the CLAPPINGS of Arab pagans as prayers, then to whom may I ask? To Allah or to the 365 idols they made? At least I know the Sufis do pray to Allah. Under that background, normal logic suggests that you (AHMED) would call Hindus and Buddhists meditations’ as PRAYERS as well. And you don’t believe NASKH or abrogation of other religions before us? does that mean that there is one less verse in the Qur’an that you do not believe? Because it contradicts your logic and your (according to you) weird way of learning. Ramadan Karim
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| | Unrecorded Date Asalama Alaykum! I read a message someone left me in another forums( http://forums.onecenter.com/somali-forums/57.shtml ). The messanger told me that I shouldn't care what you do(or something similar)...and also truthfuly reminded me my priorities. Even though the messanger was "annonymous"...I have a feeling that I know who it was. You see, my coming here was NEVER to argue, but to learn and share. To learn Somalis, as I don't have much of inter-action with them...and to help them with the chance to hear a different point of view(from what has been told to them!) Yu see, the first one is naturally taken---if I never have a somali person respond/discuss with me, i'm sufficient in knowing more and more of somalis...through their discussions. And my second one is also naturally taken---i'd share it...even if people *didn't* want them. I was stupid in thinking that I could learn/share in debating with you---because, truthfuly, many somalis suck in debate. I also came to know that MOST of whom I was discussing was nothing but a the same people(with different alliases)! Wasting my time...and just keep going over and over to something that I told/explained trillion times. Thus, I got the point that they were trying to *dis-charge* the discussion...and try their best to prevent me from going ahead in my sharing of different thoughts by going back and forth in the same ridiculing and intellegence-insulting things. Your game is over...now i'm calling the shots. NO MORE debate! It's OVER! If you have a problem with my posts, too bad. Nobody is twisting your arm to read it...OR respond to it. No more, Baby! I only have so much time for one day...and I won't waste it on a couple of lunatics who have nothing else to do but lie...and distort against people. To debate all of you...would take time(and if it was a fruitful debate)...could be bearable, but to debate with a few of people with so many alliases...with no fruitful debate...is a waste of time. But, then again, wasn't that the whole point? They're so wrapped up in *jews*...and how the *wicked jews* are after them and their beliefs. What, do they not know that *Jews* cannot stray or guide anybody? Do they not know that Jews think of NON-Jews as *filthy Gentiles* whom deserve no attention whatsoever? Do they not know that Jews think of non-Jews as people whom Jews are superior to in moral? hahaha! Oh, my, axad waliba cirkiisaa u buluug ah! People lost the trust in God. They now fear more of the *humans* than God himself. They have no faith...no peace or settlement. Do they not know that anybody whom GOD wills to astray from the right path would BE astrayed even if they NEVER talked with anyone??? Do they not know that the correct-path is unbreakable chain of goodness...and once you get it, unless God wills otherwise, you cannot go astray? Do they not know that if the WHOLE world comes together to astray one person...but God does not want that person to be astrayed, that NOTHING will happen to that person? Do they not take heed in the stories of those who believed in the Qur`an? Ibraahiim? Whom was even put in a fire? Walked out fine...BECAUSE God did not want him to be gone before his time. Look at Pharoah, Moses was sent to him with CLEAR and undeniable truth...yet disobeyed and turned away! Why? BECAUSE God did not want him to believe...untill it was too late! BUT, then again, who believes that? SOMEONE who truthfully and submissively believes in God...not people who commit shirk as they change clothes...and live in idoltory for eternity. NO, such people can never grasp the mercifulness in God. NONE can get this, until they're truthfuly and submissively declare and live the ONENESS in God. NONE---mark my words! The game is over. There is a difference between sharing...and wasting each other's time for something that does not help anyone but dispair. The truth is that it'd not matter to me if NONE believed what I believe. So, take a hike!hahah! Ah, Blessed is the God, the Beneficent, and the Merciful---who guides whomever He wishes! Ramadan Mubarak to all Muslims! Peace, Ahmad!
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| | Unrecorded Date Axmad Maxaa kugu dhacay? waxaad tiri: "I read a message someone left me in another forums" ok. yaa iska leh http://forums.onecenter.com/somali-forums . Maad dhahdid FOORUMKEYGA!, maxaad u cabsatay? Annaga ayaad inta adigu qortay "Anonymous" isaga kaaya dhigeysaa. God knows, balse anigu adiga weeye ayaan dhahayaa. Anonymous "Ahmed" waxaad qortey in YAASKA & ANSAARI aay yuhuud u shaqeeyaan, balse waxaa xaqiiqdii yahuud u shaqeeya cidda diida axaadiista & sunada rasuulka like you Axmed. Oohinta banaanka la'aad, doodaadu macno ayeey annaga inoo laheyd ah in aanu XAQA ku tusno diideyna. kuu digney Illaahna marqaati ayuu nooga yahay markaa adiga lee waaye.
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| | Unrecorded Date Umar Salaamu caleykum! Walaal horey ayaan cinwaankan usoo dhigey, ma hubo in aad aragtey & in kale. Wuxuu sharax fiican kaa siinayaa The Submitterska bal guji oo aqri so. http://www.geocities.com/~abdulwahid/muslimarticles/cons_submitters.html w/salaam
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| | Unrecorded Date Waxaan halkan soo koobiyeeyay maqaalkii Axmed qorey ee Submitterska ku saabsan (Islamic gateway's forums). uu ka hadlayo submitterska. si fiican u aqri una dhuux. About "submitters/submission" Posted by Ahmed Ali on November 19, 1999 at 03:21:10: Asalama Alaykum All! What is wrong with being "Submitter"??? It is just a meaning of the word "MUSLIM" in English...just like "Submission" is the meaning of the word of "ISLAM" in English. I visited the sites of these people. And most of what they believe is Islam. OK, so they believe that somebody was a messanger---well, lets start with this: WAS Muhammad(pbuh) the last Prophet or Messanger? When we solve this...we'll have our answers! TO say we're "Muslims" in English...tells people, psychologically, that it's "another religion" when ISLAM(Submission) is the religion of Mankind, from Adam to Muhammad, PBUT. This is the same with "Allah"---alot of people think that this is speciall god for "Muslims"...when He, ALLAH(GOD,) is the God of Mankind. I read a Qur`ans that were translated into English...and I must say the translators did a very good job translating words like, MARIUM, TALUT, JIBRIL, ISA, IBLIS, Etc etc etc. My #1 though is...why translate if you won't translate ALL. When you read in a english translation "isa" a christian goes..."HEY, that is NOT my Jesus"---so what good did you do? Words mean nothing, no matter what language you translate into. If these people(the submitters) are writing "submitters" in Arabic also...let me know---cause i'll have alot to say about that. Untill then, lets be fair. I visited a site that was recommended by Ahmed---and all the site did was tell lies and lies about these people. "Many verses in the Quran are rejected" said the writer, when there is only TWO verses. Verses that a Koran that I have of Arabic reads "the chapter is revealed in Median except the last two verses". And, then the article is going on and on attacking these creatures...without giving anything that was useful to me that I could understand against these people. Anyway, with the exception of a few(like the messanger of the covenant, hadiths, at the end of world, jesus' status, etc) there are alot of things that they're right about. So, they're just another sect...but a sect that remained "ISLAM" by name.
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| | Unrecorded Date To. Walaalaha muslimiinta Diintan waa amaano, amaanana sida laga rabo in loo dhowro waad la socotiin. Waa in aanu macruufka farnaa, Munkarna ka hortagnaa. Waa waajib inna saaran meel kasta oo aanu ku aragno diinta oo lagu cayaarayo waa in aanu ka hortagnaa. Imisa qof ayaa ku sirmi karta waxa kanoo kale. Insha'allah aanu dadaalno Diinta Allena aan u gargaarno annagoo wadajira. Mustacadiin?
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| | Unrecorded Date AHMED. If you think you can debate about - MUHAMMED is not the last messenger.. -RASHAD KHALIFA was a prophet.... -SUBMITTERS are muslims... -SaLLiga in the prayer IS SHIRK.... -We can qoute the bible.... -THE BIBLE IS BETTER THAN SOME AHADITH... -WE can go and refer TO MISHNA AND TALMUD... -famous JEW RABBI CAN BE YOUR REFERANCE... -HIJAB IS NOT ISLAMIC.... -ABA HUREYRA WAS AN IDIOT... -SUNNA IS NOTHING... -THE QURAN ONLY WITHOUT AHADITH IS THE ONLY ISLAM... Then you can take your debate to somewhere you have people like you. I visited many websites and what you wrote are UNISLAMIC. DO US A FAVOUR POSTER BOY GET LOOOOOST.
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| | Unrecorded Date BY THE WAY AHMED... Waligey nin kaa sawirsan maanan arag. waxaad niyad qaboojis ka raadsatey inaad adiga isugu duceyso fooramkaaga eheheheheehe. Teeda kale ninkii adiga kuu duceeya aaqiro waaba loo heystaa sidaadoo kale buuna dambi ku jiraa. Soomaalida uma baahana beenaale adigoo kale ah oo intuu kutub jinni soo aqristey meesha waxbaan kala doodi rabaa leh. HADDII LAGU WAAYO WAA KHEYR BATEY NIN KUU ILMEYNAYA OO ARKEY WAXAAD QORTEY MA JIRO. Nasiib daro waxaa ah in waliba naftaada aad been ka sheegtay oo mabda'aagii aadan si fiican usoo bandhigin.
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| | Unrecorded Date salaamu calaykum yaa ikhwati filcaqiida; AHMAD!!!!!!!!!! Waa kusidee maxaa ku qaaday?????? Arintu markay YUHUUD nala gashay miyaa balaayo kugu kacday?sidan waad ka rooneyday maxaa ku qaatay?? Aakhiro ma doonayno in aanu ku aragno adiga oo Malaaigtu Lug iyo Gacan ku jiidayso oo Karbaash naar ah lagula dhacayo, Dabadeedna Naarta Jahanammo lagu Tuurayo. ee Ilaahay ka baq oo Waxan aad ku dhexjiro DIB U FIIRI!!! Walaahi thuma Walaahi in aanay Sheeko xariirtan aad shubayso iyo Qusacbalaadkan aad wado lagaa yeelaynin!!!!!!!! TOOBADDA ALLE WAY FURAN TAHAY, waxaanan Mar hore ku idhi: Alle(swc) waa xaliim,gafaar, waana jecel yahay adoomahadiisa waana ka naxariis badan yahay YASKA!!! ee Ilaahaygaas ku jecel u toobad keen oo ka baq. Waxaan Rajaynayaa In Ilaahay ku tuso Wanaaga Hadii aad idigu wanaaga doonto, Allena ma baadiyeeyo mid wanaag doon ah!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| | Unrecorded Date Axmad weligeey nin ka been badan iyo nin ka filin-suubis badan ma arag. Waxaan tagey forumska Axmed http://forums.onecenter.com/somali-forums , mise waxaa ka buuxa meel walba Ansaari, people like Ansaari, yaska....blah blah blan. Waxaa qosol leh dad (Mahad & Anonymous la yiraa) ayuu iga maslaxayaa oo leeyahay ...iska daaya Ansaari...dhaafa....faraha ka qaada! Waaww! Runti qosol ayaan is hayn waayey, waxaa ugu darneyd tii uu yiri Ansaari iyo Yaska waxaay u shaqeeyan Yahuuda. Waaaaaaww!. Beenloow waa la yaqaan hadba meel ayuu been & wax isku-xirxir ka raadiyaa. Waan ujawaabey (foorumkiisa), asaga lee waaye haddii u tirtirayo ama wax kabadbadalo ama iska dhaafaba.
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| | Unrecorded Date Dardaaran To Axmed Cabaar kadib markii aan qoraalkan kore dhigey illaa & hadda waxaan ka fakirayey Adiga, Axmed. Runtii waxyaalo badan ayaan ku fakirayey, balse waxaan goostey in aan xoggaa dardaaran kusoo dhigo halkan. Waxaan rajeynayaa in aad iga aqbali doonto. Waxaan rajeynayaa in doodan xiranto adiguna ku waano qaadatey. Waxaan kaloo rajeynayaa in aay kuu noqon doonto cashar & in aad adigu dib isu fiiriso oo isla xisaabtantid inta aad hadhoow (akhiro) lagu xisaabin. Maanta ayaad Aduun joogtaa, hadda ayaad jaanis heysataa. Rabbi (swt) muxuu nooga fadilay noolaha kale? Muxuuse Rabbi (swt) noo siiyey caqliga (in aanu wax ku garano, fahano), indhaha (in aanu wax ku aragno xaq & baadhil), dhagaha (wax ku maqalno) carabka, adimaha way badanyihiin. Illaahey (swt) wuxuu nagu galadeystay ma la soo koobi karo. Kulli, Intaba berri ayagaa ayaa ku qabsanaya, ayaga ayaa kugu mudicaya, ayaga ayaa hadlaya. Bal Quraanka dhab u fiiri, bal dhuux kalaamka Allaah. Axmed, fasirka Quraanku maahin "logic" in loo fasaro ee waa cilmi qofkuu Alle baro yaqaan. Ma sahlana ee ha sahalsan. Xaggee galaa qofkii berri Kitaabku (Quraanku) qabsado? Yaa u cidda qofkaas? Walaaloow, waa aduunyo maanta ayaad waqti haysataa, maanta ayaad Allaah cafis weeydiisan, Kuna cafinkaraa Raxmaanku. Ee soo noqo. Dib u aqri qoraaladaadi. Yaan Aakhiro lagu hor keenine. Diintu waxaay leedahay dad u ahal ah. Dad dhowrsoon oo Allaah wax garasyey, ee Axmadoow ka fiirso cidda aad wax weeydiisaneysid & cida aad diinta kuu dhigeysa. Tafsiirka Quraanka waxaa jira dad looga dambeeyo oo si wacana u turjumay Kalaamkaas Alle. Maanta waxaa jira dad badan oo diintii ku ciyaaray, kitaabkana sidii maskaxdooda xunta ah la noqotay u turjuma ayagoo isticmaalaya (logic), waana bidcinimo & gaalnimo weyn. Tusaale, halkan Denmark aan joogo waxaa jira kitaabka oo af-daanish lagu turjumay, waxaana turjumay nin daanish ah oo muslim isku sheeg ah, magac islaam laheyn, shacaair islaamna lagu sheegin, ninkaasi asaga ahi wuxuu dhahaa waxaan ahay muslim Axmadiya ah, balse culumada halkani dadka waa ay ka waaniyaan. Why not, Axmed? because Quraankii ayaadkii Alle waxeey ku turjumeen logic iyo siduu caqligooda xunka ahi la noqday. Is illaali Axmed. Axmed, yaa Axmed, intaas oo qofa waa walaalahaa, cid xumaan isugu kaa baheystay ma lahan, cid cid kaseysa malaha, balse walaal kastaba wuxuu arkey meesha xun ee aad diinta ka taagan tahay. Markaa xumaan ha uqaadanin (nothing personal) ee wanaag u qaado. Qaado talooyinkooda, kuwooda dhaxal gal ah (kuwooda san). Axmed, Rasuulka (scw) markii uu dhimanayey waxaa uu nagala dardaarmay labo shey Kitaabka & Sunnada. Markaa ha is dhihin sunnada waa qolo, shiicadu waa qolo oo qaarba waxbaan ka qaadanayaa. Waa hal jid waa jidkii Suubanuhu (scw) hayey, qulufu-Raashidiintii, taabiciyiintii, taabucu.taabiciyiintii ee salafka suuban hayeen. Haddii aad qabsato waad liibaani haddii aad ka tagtana naftaadi ayaad dulantay. Waxaan aad ugu farxey oo i maqsuudisey sida wacan ee uu brother UMAR in "his last post" kugu tusay in salaada oo lagu duceysto aaysan SHIRKI aheyn, wuxuuna tusaale usoo qaatey suratul Fatixa ayadaheeda ducada ah sida (…ihdinas siraadal mustaqiima, siraadal ladina ancamta caleyhim ….). Amed, waxaad akhrisataa kutubta siirada Rasuulka ee ka sheekeynaya sida uu suubanaha u tukan jirey. Nabigu salaada wuu ku duceysan jirey. Cid xumaan kuu qabta malahan, balse waxaan kula jecel nahay WANAAG & walaaltinimo. Waxeyna imaaneysaa markaa aad qof suuban oo muslima ah noqotid. Axmed waan kula dardaarmayaa, maanta waa Aduun, berina lama oga ? ee walaaloow sida isu dhaan. Haddii aad muslim tahay, haddii aad Islam qalbiga kuugu jiro, haddaba walaaloow sidaan TALO kuuma aha ee TOOS, haddii aad tahay qof GAAL ah, waxaanu kuu dhaafney Allaah si uu kuu qabto qabasho adag, dhinacna kuu dhaafiyo ummadiisa. Xaggeyga & xagga walaalaha kaleba waxaad ka tahay cafis, waxaana Allaah kaaga baryeynaa in uu ku tusiyo XAQA oo adoo fiican oo laab furan, Xaqana haysta aanu halka mar kale ku kulano. Waxaan Alle ka baryayaa in Alle Xaqa adiga & annagaba na tuso.
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| | Unrecorded Date ASALAAMU CALAYKUM ALL; Dear brothers and sisters; We have recently witnessed a mesh of an empty debate by Ahmed and the ‘time-bomb’ effect it had on itself. Ahmed’s claim that Hadiths do not prohibit things in Islam, was the starting of that debate, we have also noticed that as soon as Ahmed started the debate he has contradicted himself immediately by quoting Hadiths. He also continued to do so in other subsequent postings. For me that was the end of the debate. The Qur'an has delivered the final hammer to that claim. Most of the Islamic scholars have confirmed that the authenticated hadiths can be called hikma or wisdom, the Qur`an has said for that matter. 1.231, Do not treat Allah.s Signs as a jest, but solemnly rehearse Allah.s favours on you, and the fact that He sent down to you the Book and Wisdom, for your instruction. And fear Allah, and know that Allah is well acquainted with all things. Watch the language THE BOOK AND ‘WISDOM’…..Meaning the two components of WAHY (revelation) that Allah sent down to Prophet Muhammad (Pbuh) is the BOOK (Qur`an) AND WISDOM (Hadith of the prophet). The qur`an has also said; 2.113 For Allah hath sent down to thee the Book and wisdom THE BOOK AND WISDOM On the other hand when the Qur’an was talking as an integral part of what was being read in the houses of umahat ul mu'minin (prophet’s wives) has declared; 33.34, And recite what is rehearsed to you in your homes, of the Signs of Allah and His Wisdom SIGNS OF ALLAH AND HIS WISDOM Was there any revelation revealed on the prophet (pbuh) and read in the houses of the umahat al mu’minin after the qur'an rather than the Hadith? That manifests his sayings, actions and assertions? And perhaps the clearest verses in the Qur`an declaring the WAXY (revelation) status of the Hadith is; (75.16-19 ) 16. Move not thy tongue concerning the (Qur'an) to make haste therewith. 17. It is for Us to collect it and to promulgate it: 18. But when We have promulgated it, follow thou its recital (as promulgated): 19. Nay more, it is for Us to explain it (and make it clear): And what Allah means by returning the explanation of the qur’an to himself besides his sayings in another verse 16.44 and We have sent down unto thee (also) the Message; that thou mayest explain clearly to men what is sent for them With our knowledge that Allah has not explained every think in detail in the qur'an doesn't that mean the explanations of the prophet which is manifested in his sayings, actions and assertions IS the explanations of Allah which itself is nothing other than WAXY? I was stunned by Ahmed’s notion that during the course of this debate, some brothers have suggested that the Hadith is higher than the Qur'an, or the Qur'an is not complete. From the width and the length of this discussion and other relevant discussions (like who prohibits…) I have not been able to see anybody claiming that at all. What I have observed however, is the conformation of the completeness of the Qur'an, when it comes to principles and foundations, and the need of the authenticated Hadiths’ explanation when it comes to the practice and practicalities of concepts. We have also seen explainations of (ADIICUL LLAHA WA ADIICU RASUULA) and (IQTIDAA' A RASUUL) which means following the prophet Mohamed (pbuh) in what he said and what he has done, it is a well used phrase in Arabic language, which I suspect Ahmed is completely unlearned of, that to (ADIIC) person is to follow what he says and do what he does. This however was never a notion of making Hadith of prophet Muhammad(pbuh) higher than the Qur'an. To be fair to Ahmed, Although he has agreed that prophet Mohamed’s sayings and actions completely agree with the Qur'an, Ahmed refused to accept him as the MUSHARIC (the one who allows and prohibits things in Islam) but he made prophet Muhammed as a leader of the Muslims in his time only, and a normal person. According to Ahmed the Hadiths of the fraa’id (prayers, fasting, zakah, hajj) and its related issues is something that the prophet has just explained and corrected it, because all this fraa’id was present since prophet Ibraahiim (pbuh). While we believe that the fraaid (prayers, fastings, zakah and hajj) were being performed since prophet Ibrahim but we differ from Ahmed that all those fraaid was not being performed in its present form, amount or style on the exact way we are performing today. We all have seen how Ahmed has failed to produce any evidence, after the successful persistence of brother Umar with regard to the prayers being in its present form from the time of prophet Ibraahiim. Not only to Ahmed, but, we are prepared to forward this challenge to all submitters and Qur'aaniyiin to produce any shred of evidence, be it from revelation references or from historic facts. We also differ from Ahmed and believe that the salaat (prayers) for instant was commanded at the night of ISRAA WAL MICRAAJ. To the question of the Hadith or Qur’an and their contradiction to logic; I say that; the discovery of any contradiction of Hadith to “logic” does not follow a mathematical formula which does not carry errors. It is an argumentative procedure that can be right or wrong. It is further based on intellect, someone’s level of knowledge and comprehension. With due respect, I (and I do not claim to be a scholar of any sort) have been able to discover fallacies in Ahmed’s thinking. To put the whole procedure itself to the test; it is possible that some one sees a particular Hadith contradicting to his logic and to his thinking. While other person sees that same Hadith fully corresponding to his logic and to his thinking. Then the whole process has turned from ‘contradiction of the Hadith and the logic’ to ‘contradictions of two or several logics and thinkings’! Finally, I must say that the debate was not particularly about Ahmed’s personality, but was for the beliefs he holds and subsequently posted in this forums. We are against any distorted belief on the part of our religion. We wish Ahmed could understand that. It is also vital to point out, while we would like and wish for Ahmed to come to the right path, rest assured that we will continue to respond to any postings which require our reply, Let Ahmed know, it is not important to us whether he converses with us or not. We will continue to dissect his postings and their contents if and when. Thanks All Ramadaan karim.
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| | Unrecorded Date jazaka-Allah khayr brother nur on your take of what the debate was all about. I also i agree with you on your conclusion and for this reason ahmed opened another postings. as usual, he put out large amount of information, but ahmed avoids answering the questions when his discrepancy is pointed out to him. it is on islam forums under the title of "who is a muslim" please check out this site http://www.islaam.com/sunnah/ . it talks about the samethings you said above.
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| | Unrecorded Date assalaama calaykum. walaale ansaari aad baad umahadsantahay anigu markaan akhriyey wuxuu qoray axmad aadbaan uga naxay sababtoo ah diinta iyo rassuulka(SALALLAAHU CALAYHIWASALAM)iyo ASAXAABTA*(ALAHA KARAALI NOQDEE)ayuu meelkaga dhacay.qofkii quraanka iyo sunahana kala saarana danbi buugalay.waxaa sunahu wuxuu micneeyaa quraanka oOMA ARKAYSID XADIIS QURAANKA KHILAAFSAN.SALAADA INLATUKADO QURAANKAA LAGU SHEEGAY IYO SIDA LOO WAYSAYSANAYO LAAKIIN SIDA LOOTUKANAYO NABIGAA CADEEYEY OO SHEEGAY MARKA HADII AAD SUNADA DIIDID BAADIBAADKU SUGANTAHAY.ILAAHAY WUXUU QORAANKA KUYIRI.SUURATULL XASHAR>WAMAA AATAAKUMMURASULU FAKHUDUUHU WAMAA NAHAAKUM CANHU FANTAHUU WATTAQULLAAHA INAL LAAHA SHADIIDUL CIQAAB)...7.)AXMAD HADAAD RABTID INAAD DIINTA DADKA USHEEGTID SOOBARO OO NAFTAADA BarMARKA HORE.LAAKIIN ADOON BARAN WAXAADAN AQOON HAKA HADLID.WAXAA WEEYE HADAY AQOONLA AAN KAATAHAy waa inaad barataa hadii aad fitna wade tahay waxaan kaa baryeynaa inaadan diinta nagaqasin oo dadka soo galaya kahor istaagin. hadaad wanaag iyo waana rabtid wax maqal hadaad islaamka iyo muslimiinta xumaan larabtid alaha kugu celiyo xumaantaada. sidaas iyo nabad galyo
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