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     | Unrecorded Date Asalama Alaykum Muslims! The Bible reflects the story of Adam and Eve’s departure from Heaven in Genesis. It reflects as if it was EVE’s fault---and that the pain of *child-birth* was her punishment...and the future daughters of hers...since she betrayed her husband and ate the Tree and made him eat the tree as well. Please, read; 12: The man said, "The woman you put here with me--she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it." 13: Then the LORD God said to the woman, "What is this you have done?" The woman said, "The serpent deceived me, and I ate." 14: So the LORD God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this, "Cursed are you above all the livestock and all the wild animals! You will crawl on your belly and you will eat dust all the days of your life. 15: And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring [] and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel." 16: To the woman he said, "I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing; with pain you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you." 17 : To Adam he said, "Because you listened to your wife and ate from the tree about which I commanded you, `You must not eat of it,' "Cursed is the ground because of you; through painful toil you will eat of it all the days of your life. Genesis 3: 12-17 Eve is the blamed one...who is PAINED forever(for even...her future DAUGHTERS)...while Adam is NOT pained at all---but the ground was cursed, AS THE BIBLE says! Everything the Bible said so far...contradicts the Qur`an. The Qur`an...does NOWHERE teach that Eve was to blame for anything she caused Adam to do---it doesn’t even give the SLIGHTEST hint that she was---any less or more guilty than Adam. They get casted out of heaven, together, and were VERY mad at, together, untill they returned to God...which by the way HE FORGIVES THEM(so...what kind of logic would it be to forgive them...and get pained in *child birth*)! See 2:31-36, 7:19-25, 20:115-123! Is Child-birth a punishment...or a joyous way of life? ANYWAY, the Hadiths...agree with the Bible. It is ironic...`cause the hadith looks a copy of the Bible to me; read on: Volume 4, Book 55, Number 611: Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "Were it not for Bani Israel, meat would not decay; and were it not for Eve, no woman would ever betray her husband." BUKHARI Bani Israel(i.e, Children of Israel) Book 008, Number 3471: Abu Huraira (Allah be pleased with him) reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: Had it not been for Eve, woman would have never acted unfaithfully towards her husband. MUSLIM! The hadiths say; WOMEN who are evil who betray their husbands...are because of EVE(what about the wicked men who betray their wives???)...it also teaches that women are UNFAITHFUL to their husbands(have an uffairs, etc)...because of Eve(What about MEN who are unfaithful to their wives???) Is it not the MOST wicked thing to fabricate lies and adopt from wicked people’s way of belief...and then attribute it to the Prophet??? WHAT does this say about the Prophet??? Does it make him a man who ruled on the Qur`an??? ...need I to remind you that THESE are *SAHIH* books??? Also, it is the same books that say WOMEN are the most people in Hell(imagine that??? what a wicked world of lies!) Where in the world do they get these ideas? GUES what? YUP, you’re smart! :) Isn’t it IRONIC...that the same people whom these notions are coppied from HOLD Islam as oppressing to women??? BUT, it’s not of Islam---the Qur`an does not teach these wicked notions...but it is from their Books! They make God a tyrant evil king who just punishes people for something they have no power of. Does not God tell us in the Qur`an MANY times that NOBODY is punished for another person’s failures???...That God is NEVER unjust to his servants??? Cursed are those who forge lies against God and His Prophets! God and the Angels and the Believers---all join in cursing them. The trees and nature and the Animals curse them; deaf and dumb...who have ears but do not hear...who have mind but do not understand. Ah, God is sufficient for the wrong-doers! Ramadan Kareem to Muslims! Peace, Ahmad!
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| | Unrecorded Date Salaam alaykum. Ahmad: Why am I not surprised I wonder? I mean, I have seen brothers/sisters consider you the *infamous*, anti-Abu Huraira, some even went far beyond that and call you a *Kafir*. But, I am not going to judge your *'Aqiidah*, what you believe and how you worship your Creator is between you and Allah. Nonetheless, I couldn't help but wonder why you decided to post this thread. I happened to have read some of your posting about Ramadan, and therein you had quoted some good *Hadiths*, ironically narrated by Abu Huraira himself. Fine. (You judge yourself, contradictory or not?) What I intended to ask, about this particular piece, was what exactly is your point? That we (Muslims) believe in the *original sin*?? That you are an authority on interpreting sayings of the Prophet (pbuh)??? You say, the hadith is a copy of the bible. Ok. So, if Abu Huraira (RA) reported the hadith from Mohamad (SAW), then the Prophet (Pbuh) copied it from the bible? Outragious I say! If you have any solid evidence for this serious allegations, I pray you provide them; the sooner the better. But what you have scrabbled above proves nothing! Besides, you failed to establish a connection between the x-tians blame on Eve (for the original sin) and the statement in the hadith you quoted. So, you are just hung in mid-air, trying to assert some authority over interpreting the words of the beloved messenger of Allah (pbuh). Why, you don't even know what you are talking about; I suggest you try to understand the meaning of the hadith, before you jump to conclusion or build up your own opinion on it. Or even better give up your wanna-be mentality and seek the truth about the nature of hadiths and the history behind them! Now, if you truely are fasting (I believe you are), then I ask, why in the world would you post something of this nature? If you have doubts or questions in your mind about this issue, why not ask or at least pose an appropriate question to the Muslims, who would honestly and earnestly would have answered your question? No, you decided to profusely manifest your own opinion, which would result in confusions among those Muslims with little or no knowledge of the matter, and the general public (non-muslims) would giggle and laugh, pointing fingers at us! Again, I ask, why in the Name of Allah? Why did you have to disgrace yourself? Why Oh! why for the love of Allah???????? Forgive me. A meagre servant of Allah. peace!@#$%&
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| | Unrecorded Date Nabad iyo Naxariis Ilaahay Korkiina Ha Ahaato Ramadan Kariim iyo Ciid Mubarak Alla markaad dhalaray maxay waalidka farxeen oo dheheen "Al-Xamdu Lillaahi waa wiil Ilaahayow ka yeel kii DIINTAAD u adeega" markaas bay kuu bixiyeen "AHMAD." Mise waa magac aad adigu la baxday si aad noo soo jiidato? Kay ahaataba waa magac macaan oo qalbiga qof kastoo Muslim ah ku daabacan saa Ilaahay Baa U Bixiyay Suubanow Rasuulkiisa Sallalaahu Calayhi Wacalaa Aalihi Wasalim Tasliima. "AHMAD" waa magaca Nebigeena Suuban Maxamed Bin Cabdullahi Khaatimal Anbiyaa Wal Mursaliin. Maxamedkii Amiinka Ahaa Maxamedkii Run Lowga Ahaa Maxamedkii Dabciga Wanaagsanaa "Wa Inaka La Calaa Khuluqin Cadiim" Aayad Maxamedkii Deeqsiga Ahaa Maxamedkii Xikmadda Badnaa Maxamedkii Xaakim Ahaa Maxamedkii Naxariista Badnaa Maxamedkii Bishaarada u waday Intii Ilaahay Rumaysa Maxamedkii Uga digay Carada Ilaahay intii garata "Innaa Bacathnaaka Bashiiran Wa Nadiiran Wa Daaciyan Ila Allaah" Aayad "Maa Yandiqu Canil Hawaa In Huwa Ilaa Waxyun Yuu Xaa Callamahu Shadiidul Quwaa" Haddiise heedheh ku dhihi mayo waxaad isugu yeertaye aad colaadda Suubanoow Rasuulkayaga (SCW) ku dheerato "Muutuu Fii GHIIDIKUM" "[al-Hajj 22:15-17] Whoso is wont to think (through envy) that Allah will not give him (Muhammad) victory in the world and the Hereafter (and is enraged at the thought of his victory), let him stretch a rope up to the roof (of his dwelling), and let him hang himself. Then let him see whether his strategy dispelleth that whereat he rageth!. Thus We reveal it as plain revelations, and verily Allah guideth whom He will. Lo! those who believe (this revelation), and those who are Jews, and the Sabaeans and the Christians and the Magians and the idolaters - Lo! Allah will decide between them on the Day of Resurrection. Lo! Allah is Witness over all things" Ilaahayow Noo Naxariiso
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| | Unrecorded Date Asalama Alaykum Muslims! Servant of God, I'll respond later when I have time(IF your post is worth to respond to!) Walaalkiin, Walaal, waxaan rabaa inaan ku waydiiyo; waxaad tiri; "Khaatimal Anbiyaa Wal Mursaliin"...su`aashaydu waxay tahay; Ilaahay ma wuxuu yiri; "KHAATIMAL NABIYIIN..." mise "KHAATIMAL ANBIYAA"??? FADLAN, xasuusnow, ereyga "anbiyaa" waa jamac ah NEBIYIIN/RASUULO. Ereyga "nabiyiin" waa wax u kaliya NEBIYIINTA. Inaan idin *jiito* baan Axmad ula baxay??? Walaal, Axmad waaridkay baa ii bixiyay. Runtiina ma`aqaan magac aan ku badalan lahaa...magac ilaahay sharfay oo qur`aankiisa ku daray...oo nebiyadiisa kii ugu dambeeyay loo bixiyay buu ahaa! Marka, Al-xamdullilah...magacayga waan jeclahay! Walaal, wixii NEBI Maxammad aduunka ku soo kordhiyay waxaa UGU qayr-badnaa Qur`aanka. Nebiyullahi Muxammadna(calayhi salaatu wasalaam) maalinta yoomul-qiyaame wuxuu oran doonaa; "Ilaahayow...dadkaygii Qur`aankaan way dayaceen." Runtii, maalinba maalinta ka dambeeysa, Walaalkiinoow, taas baan ku arkaa Ummada Muslimiinta. Allaha Raxmaanka ahna waxaan ka baryayaa...inuu dadkiisa qayrka Qur`aanka ku jira uu tuso. Aniga, Axmad baan ahay, Rasuul ilaahay ma`ahi---wixii aan barto waa wax aniga i anfacaya iyo wixii ila qaata(haday yihiin wax san)...rajo baana qabaa in Ilaahay uusan Ummadiisa ka jeesanayn. Ilaahay wixii Muslimiin ah ha kulansiinyo Laylatul-Qadarka... Ilaahayna ramadaankan Muslimiinta ha`uga dhigo mid ay ku indho furtaan...oo wixii baadil ah ay diintooda ka saaraan! Ilaahayna Ummada Muslimiinta ah jacayl ha dhigo dhexdooda. Cadowtinimada gaaladana Ilaahay Muslimiinta haka kulmiyo oo haka wayneeyo! Ramadan Mubarak dhamaan wixii Muslimiin ah! Peace, Ahmad!
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| | Unrecorded Date Asalama Alaykum Muslims! Servant of God, First of all...let me say that that is beautiful name! :) About your post; Am I anti-Abu Hurairah...or whoever attributed lies to him??? IF Abu Hurairah TRULY brought fabricated-hadiths against the Prophet---I would see him a LIAR! This is not the point. The point is that I don't really believe he had anything to do with this. Also, Servant of God, since you seem to have done your homework...I see that you missed the fact that I only think hadiths to be corrupted---and not all satanic-revelation. HOWEVER, being human and all, I don't hold anyone against their humanism. This is not my style...i'm sure you either over-looked or didn't get it, simply. You said: "What I intended to ask, about this particular piece, was what exactly is your point? That we (Muslims) believe in the *original sin*?? That you are an authority on interpreting sayings of the Prophet (pbuh)??? You say, the hadith is a copy of the bible. Ok. So, if Abu Huraira (RA) reported the hadith from Mohamad (SAW), then the Prophet (Pbuh) copied it from the bible? Outragious I say! If you have any solid evidence for this serious allegations, I pray you provide them; the sooner the better." HUH??? Jews don't believe in the Origional Sin and this *piece* of info is from the OLD Testament. Genesis is in the Old Testament. Needless to say, we read the Qur`an...and as I said TRILLION times before...NOTHING is over the Qur`an...no hadith, no bible, no history. If they do not agree with the Qur`an, they're simply not of God. The Qur`an does NOT, and I repeat, does NOT blame Eve, specifically. It blames BOTH of them. It says nothing about Eve tempting her Husband. This side of the story is PURELY from the Old Testament. Obviously, as I stated above, the Hadith agrees with the Bible; thus, is NOT of God. The Hadith says every woman who is unfaithful or betrayes her husband is because of Eve; this CONTRADICTS the Qur`an's saying that NO SOUL is dealt with unjust or another's account. 14.51, 20.15, 21.47, 39.70, 45.15, 74.38, and many more. Why would the Prophet of God(OF all people) say that? There is one clear option; HE DID NOT! I don't think Abu Hurairah did, either! God is NEVER unjust to anyone nor would he advocate evil; This is purely man's work. Men who rebelled against God and His Prophet. Men who would cause the Ummah to neglect the Qur`an!(25.30) God did not advocate something...so they advocated for Him...following the nations before...who neglected and lost their own world. Ah, what the heck! You wanted a connection, here it goes: X-tians: "What is the difference whether it is in a wife or a mother, it is still Eve the temptress that we must beware of in any woman......I fail to see what use woman can be to man, if one excludes the function of bearing children." JEWS: "No wickedness comes anywhere near the wickedness of a woman.....Sin began with a woman and thanks to her we all must die" HADITH: "Had it not been for Eve, woman would have never acted unfaithfully towards her husband." MUSLIM!...and "...were it not for Eve, no woman would ever betray her husband." BUKHARI Do you see any connection now? Now, lets see the incomparable Qur`an: "Whoever works evil will not be requited but by the like thereof, and whoever works a righteous deed -whether man or woman- and is a believer- such will enter the Garden of bliss" (40:40) "Whoever works righteousness, man or woman, and has faith, verily to him/her we will give a new life that is good and pure, and we will bestow on such their reward according to the best of their actions" (16:97) Are they the same? AH, God is forever just to ALL of his creations! Disgrace myself??? Telling people what is NOT of God is disgracing myself??? Ah, what the heck, if this is so...I must disgrace myself ALL day when I tell X-tians/Jews that their books are falsied and not reliable. Oh, silly silly me...who disgraces himself every turn. Ah, Praise Be to God, the Lord of the Universe! Ramadan Kareem and Eid Mubarak to all Muslims! Peace, Ahmad!
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| | Unrecorded Date Dear brothers and sisters; Are we witnessing Ahmad employing again his two distinguished learning tools, namely false logic and weird way of learning? Ahmad; You drew a comparison in where it is simply incomparable, neither in substance, in sense and in taste. Look and read again your comparisons, I hope you can demarcate the differences by yourself this time round. You wrote: {X-tians: "What is the difference whether it is in a wife or a mother, it is still Eve the temptress that we must beware of in any woman......I fail to see what use woman can be to man, if one excludes the function of bearing children." JEWS: "No wickedness comes anywhere near the wickedness of a woman.....Sin began with a woman and thanks to her we all must die" HADITH: "Had it not been for Eve, woman would have never acted unfaithfully towards her husband." MUSLIM!...and "...were it not for Eve, no woman would ever betray her husband." BUKHARI } You have then asked {Do you see any connection now? } Well; I just read what you have written, and I do not claim to be an authority to interpret Hadith to start with. However, I failed to see how the Christians` declaration of the uselessness of the women race can be compared to the Hadith’s factual and historical statement about the beginning of this particular habit “unfaithfulness” and how it has been carried through to generations. I also fail to see how the Jews` clear imprinting and upholding of women’s wickedness above and higher than any other possible wickedness by any human race, can be compared to the Hadith’s sequencing about the start of that particular loop of women’s habitude. What I have been able to see from the Christians quote is the endeavor to demean and degrade women, regardless of women’s’ role as a wife and as a mother. (You may read the quote again) I have also seen how the Jews are holding women and women only responsible for humanities’ misfortune (You may read that quote too) I must say however that I have been using normal way of learning. Ahmed; all you need to do, is to stop your temptation to fiddle with the Qur’an and Hadith for a moment, and try to see the meaning of what you cite. For a number of times we have illustrated to you how you can not interpret neither the qur’an nor the Hadith using (according to you) your two infamous tools (weird way of learning and false logic) Thanks IID MUBARAK TO EVERY ONE
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| | Unrecorded Date Brother NUR. See how women are treated in judeochristianity. This is a wonderful peek into their twisted so called god's word and want to sell it to everybody by anymeans they can. And make the comparison to the AHMED's claim that ISLAM treats women the same christians and jews treat them. After all "muslims blame EVE too" has a motive hasn't it. THE REASON BEHIND PAINS OF DELIVERY ----------------------------------- [Gen 3:16] God said to Eve when she tempted Adam, "I will greatly multiply your pain in childbearing, in pain you shall bring forth children, yet your desire shall be for your husband and he shall rule over you. POSTPARTUM IN THE BIBLE ----------------------- [Levi. 12:2] If a woman conceives, and bears a MALE CHILD, then she shall be unclean seven days.. But if she bears a FEMALE CHILD then she shall be unclean two weeks. AFTER AN INTERCOURSE -------------------- [Levi. 15:16] If a man has an emission of semen, he shall bathe his whole body in water, and be unclean until the evening. Every garment and every skin on which the semen comes shall be washed with water, and be unclean until the evening. [Levi. 22:17] WHEN THE SUN IS DOWN HE SHALL BE CLEAN. --------------------------
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| | Unrecorded Date AHMED. I wonder what is your gain in this whole game of undermining Islam and muslims?.. I know, I know, you don't need to be asked do you?. Who is your last prophet?. RICHARD KHALIFA or there is another one after him too?. Why don't you stay away from the unsuspecting somalis with your brand of Islam?. We don't need you, we don't care who the hell you are and if you have a sence of dignity you would not come back here time and time again with your filth and lies disguised as a religion.
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| | Unrecorded Date Asalama Alaykum Muslims! Nur, Brother, I never said they're IDENTICAL: I made a connection. What is the connection??? THEY ALL blamed EVE...for being the wicked of all. PLEASE, if you're True Muslim...who is NOT biased, one bit(AS Muslim should be) you will see what I mean: X-tains:"Eve the temptress that we must beware of in any woman" JEWS: "Sin began with a woman and thanks to her we all must die" HADITH: "Had it not been for Eve, woman would have never acted unfaithfully towards her husband."...and "...were it not for Eve, no woman would ever betray her husband." THAT was the connection---they ALL blamed Eve for the wickedness of others. I'm sorry, Nur...If you don't wanna acknowledge that---then there is something that is DEFINITELY wrong here. What is there to tafsiir, Nur??? They're ALL three very clear. NONE needs tafsiir in that. AND, if you are saying you want to get out of it...that is fine. SORRY, Jews and Christians themselves claim the same. Women are people, NUR---JUST like Men...they're NOT any more wicked than MEN...nor are they any better than MEN. God, in all places, mentions them to be the same(in spiritual) God made Men the care-takers of women...but that is worldly. They're not wicked or more weird than Men...nor are they any more unfaithful or betrayers than Men. Also, Eve and Adam were BOTH people who sinned against God. God punished them with being exposed to evil and they repented...and God forgave them...and also forgives their future children if they repent and turn to God as their parents did. NOWHERE in the Qur`an do we see that women or men are especially wicked because of their parents. This is bull and evil that is attributed to God and His Messanger---and the curse of God, Angels, and the Believers are upon those who invent lies and attribute it to God and His Messangers! AS I will post more hadiths, as time passes, you will see how Hadiths are corrupted with notions from wickeds of the wicked. And you will see the immorality in the hadiths...and the contradictions it has against the Qur`an; Book God perfected and completed. AND, since my logic is false and I learn weird, I ask you, Nur(LIGHT)...to give me some of your light! And, please, feel at home...and teach me about this! Eid Mubarak to Muslims! Peace, Ahmad!
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| | Unrecorded Date Ahmed. Stop begging and bring forth your cheap lies would ya?.
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| | Unrecorded Date Nabad iyo Naxariis Ilaahay Korkiina Ha Ahaato Ciid Mubaarak Gacal iyo walaal dhammaan Ilaahay Idin Badbaadiyo aan ku wada ciidno caafimaad san. Qoraaga mawduucan "Muslims blame EVE, like Jews/X-tians do..." wuxuu in door ah noo sheegay kuna adkaystay in uu yahay MUSLIM hadana uusan ahayn SUNNI. Wuxuu had iyo goor noo sheegaa in Qur'aanku yahay Kitaabka Kali ah ee uu raacayo madaama ummadda Muslimiintu kooxo iyo firqooyin noqdeen. Wuxuu kaloo noo sheegay in uusan raacsanay qolana hadana uu ka qaato qolo walba wixii isaga la wanaagsan. Haddii qof Ashahaato oo yiraahdo Laa Ilaaha Illa Allah Muxamed Rasuulu Allah waxay tahay in uu u nabad galo naftiisa, hantidiisa iyo xilihiisa. Mar haddii uusan jiran "XAAKIM" caadil ah oo Muslimiinta danaha u quma aniga waxay ila tahay in uu waajibku yahay "Idcuu Ilaa Sabiili Rabbika Bil Xikmati Wal Mawcidatul Xasanaha" iyo "Wa qul li NAAS XUSNAA." Hase ahaatee qoraaga mawduucan "Muslims blame EVE, like Jews/X-tians do..." kuma ekaan doodiisa ah waxaan ahay Muslim mana ihi SUNNI ee wuxuu u gudbay arrimo aad u ba'an oo khatar iyo kharibaad ku ah DIINTA ISLAAMKA: A- Wuxuu qoraalkan "Muslims blame EVE, like Jews/X-tians do..." iyo kuwo kala isku dayaayaa in uu kala QAYBIYO Ilaahay iyo Rasuulkiisa. B- Wuxuu noo sheegayaa in Nebi Maxamed Sallalaahu Calayhi Wa Sallim: 1- Ka leexday wixii Ilaahay Faray; 2- Beenlaw ahaa 3- Alifay waxaan Ilaahay farin 4- Uusan la imaan DIIN cusub ee uu ku dayday Yuhuud hore 5- Uusan ahayn "Ummi" waxna akhrin waxna qorin 6- Uu ahaa "Ummi" mushrik ah 7- Uu soo minguuriyay Tawraah iyo Injiil 8- Khilaafay Qur'aanka 9- Ku dayday salaaddii Yuhuudda C- Wuxuu kaloo noo sheegay in Nebiga (SCW) oo lagu saliyaa tahay shirki; D- Wuxuu kaloo noo sheegay in Saxaabadii Nebiga (SCW) ahaayeen: 1- BEENLOOYAAL ka leexday Qur'aanka 2- Ku dhaqmeen shirki 3- Ayna si daacad ah u soo gudbin DIINTA ISLAAMKA 4- Axaadiista iyo dhaqankii ka soo weriyaan Nebiga (SCW) ahayd waxay iyagu alifeen 5- Kuwa isku raacay Mu'aamaro lagu khaldo DIINTA ISLAAMKA 6- Mid curiyay been, Mid ku raacay, Mid ka aamusay iyo mid aan waxba ogayn. E- In aysan jirin wax looga daydo Nebiga (SCW) ama Sunno wax la yiraahdo. F- Wuxuu kaloo noo sheegay in ISAGA mooyee MUSLIMIINTU hoog iyo ba' ku sigan yihiin G- Wuxuu noo sheegay in uusan jiran Allaha ka dhigee HAL caalim oo Muslim ah oo uu raad raaci karo. H- Wuxuu kaloo noo sheegay in haddii aad rabto in aad DIINTA ISLAAMKA fahamto aad akhriso waxa ay qoreen YUHUUDDA Ilaahay Nacladay iyo Kiristaanka. I- Wuxuu noo sheegay intaas oo dhan in uu ka akhristay Qur'aanka oo Af Ingriis lagu turjumay. In laga aamuso oo la yiraahdo isaga iyo Ilaahii way ka wayn tahay arrinku Haddii Ilaahay Idmo. Ilaahayow Noo Naxariiso
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| | Unrecorded Date Asalama Alaykum Muslims! To; Walaalkiin, Hhhhmmm, runtii, Walaalkiis...waxaan arkaa waxa aan ku arkay Qur`aanka KUN jeer; in Ummada(Bini Aadamka ah) ay qal-qasho marka ay xujoobaan...Ah, what the heck! Inta aad sheegtay...wax ma u haysaa cadayn ah oo cadaynaya inaan iri???? Mise, Walaal, waxaad raacaysaa qoomamkii Qur`aanka ka sheekeeyo oo markii ay xujoobaan la yimaada been iyo misabad? to refresh your memory; I NEVER said...your A-I...but whatever I said you must've either mis-understood or simply forging a lie(which is not a surprise to me, anymore---I've seen worse than these before...) Ah, I guess...it's just a pathetic world! I asked you a question...IF you claim something, you should be able to clarify it...and teach it. I will ask you again; waxaad tiri; "Khaatimal Anbiyaa Wal Mursalain"...su`aashaydu waxay tahay; Ilaahay ma wuxuu yiri; "KHAATIMAL NABIYIIN..." mise "KHAATIMAL ANBIYAA"??? FADLAN, xasuusnow, ereyga "anbiyaa" waa jamac ah NEBIYIIN/RASUULO. Ereyga "nabiyiin" waa wax u kaliya NEBIYIINTA. ...and FYI, I don't believe there was a Prophet or a Messenger after Muhammad(pbuh). Eid Mubarak to all Muslims! Peace, Ahmad!
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| | Unrecorded Date Walaalkiin. Brother,really what this guy(AHMED)does not tell us is more ominous than what he told us so far. From the top of islam to the bottom of it, they (AHMED) and his group bring an opposition to everything islamic while they know they are wrong and swear to you and everybody else they are muslims. This thought of fighting islam from with in was started by western orientalists at the height of the occupation of islamic countries by the west. And many of his arguments can be found word by word if you visit www.moslem.org. May be this will look familiar "The Quran tells us that Muhammad wrote down the Quran - Muhammad's contemporaries are quoted as saying, "These are tales from the past that he wrote down. They are being dictated to him day and night" (25:5). You cannot "dictate" to an illiterate person" Unquote. You see clearly how they are falsifying here about the verses of ALLAH. And ahmed argued before in this forumss about the same subject in a smoke screen. A while back AHMED refused to call the arabs UMMIYIIN and said that ummi did not mean what it meant. Brother walaalkiin, Ahmed is too glued to this submitter teachings although he does not admitt. This website is run by the followers of RICHARD KHALIFA known as rashad khalifa. They also have other websites that teach the same thing AHMED dictates here. Ahmed in his last posting admitted that he does not believe there is another prophet after mohammed but look at this brother: "I visited the sites of these people. And most of what they believe is islam. OK, so they believe somebody was a messenger----well, lets start with this: WAS muhammed the last prophet or messenger? When we solve this....we will have our answer" unquote. There you go walaalkiin, AHMED lies all the time and goes back and forth to his misery. He is not even sure what to believe or say and goes after what he says within few seconds. Inshallah, By visiting that particular website you will see that AHMED COPIES them here ideologically as well compisition. AHMED. Another cheap story you wanna sell to us?.
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| | Unrecorded Date Aslamu Alaykum All; Dear brothers and sisters, I would like to wish every body a happy and a prosperous IID, aamiin. Ahmed I must admit that I find it bizarre to deal with zigzagging side steps, not only for the fanciful part of verbosity dance, but more for the playfully oscillating convictions. You addressed me as this: ** Brother, I never said they're IDENTICAL: I made a connection. What is the connection??? THEY ALL blamed EVE...for being the wicked of all. PLEASE, if you're True Muslim...who is NOT biased, one bit(AS Muslim should be) you will see what I mean: ** No Ahmed I do not see what you mean, and I even doubt if you yourself see what you mean either, I also doubt if you do understand the meaning of what you actually cite. Can you tell me from the two Hadiths you quoted where it says, “EVE is the wicked of all”? Ahmed, in a clear digression from the issue you then attempted to create some artificial background and introduced things like ** Women are people, NUR---JUST like Men...they're NOT any more wicked than MEN...nor are they any better than MEN. God, in all places, mentions them to be the same(in spiritual) God made Men the care-takers of women...but that is worldly. They're not wicked or more weird than Men...nor are they any more unfaithful or betrayers than Men. ** Can you again tell me from the two Hadiths you quoted where it says that Women are not people? Or Women are not just like men? Or Women are weirder than men are? Or Women are more unfaithful or betrayers than men? Ahmed, do you actually understand what you cite? I must say that as I progressed in reading your response I see you sequentially create more contradictions and more irrelevancies than before. Everybody can see clear irrelevancies in each and every paragraph in your post, and every one can clearly see the objectives of your endeavors from your last paragraph which states this: ** AS I will post more hadiths, as time passes, you will see how Hadiths are corrupted with notions from wickeds of the wicked. And you will see the immorality in the hadiths...and the contradictions it has against the Qur`an; Book God perfected and completed. ** Ahmed, we have been down this road before, we know the real issue for you here is the believe in the WAHY status of the Hadiths. You have not fell short of dismissing the WAHY status of the Hadith in clear and arrogant defiance to these Quranic verses: 1.231, 2.113, 33.34, 75(16-19) and 16.44 Once some one denies some Quranic verses, the next step for him/her is to deny the Qur’an all together. With regard to your appeal to my light, I must say that all I have been doing is to give you some light from the Qur’an and Hadith. You have not listened to it before, although I doubt very much that you would listen this time, I can only hope that some day you would. Regards IID MUBARAK TO ALL.
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| | Unrecorded Date Asalama Alaykum Muslims! Nur, Brother, you must understand...i'm MORTAL. I'm not divine...and I due to mistake(EVEN though I can't even see where---which may mean...part of being human) However, I'm trying. I wish you'd talk to me directly...instead of giving metaphors and poetic talks. You asked me; "Can you again tell me from the two Hadiths you quoted where it says that Women are not people? Or Women are not just like men? Or Women are weirder than men are? Or Women are more unfaithful or betrayers than men?" My saying that of that...was from the hadiths' saying that HAD IT NOT BEEN FOR EVE WOMEN WOULD NOT BE UNFAITHFUL OR BETRAYING TOWARDS THEIR HUSBANDS. Thus, making WOMEN some more wicked or not the same hight-level of humanity as Men. AND, the fact that there is a hadith saying WOMEN are the most community of hell---this is not only injust...but also wicked against people. AND, the fact that there is a hadith saying WOMEN'S pradise is condtioned on her husband>>>WHY NOT have hadiths similar about MEN??? Nur, HISTORICALLY, it's men who usually cheat and betray their wives---is that because of Adam? IS it? Please, lets not try to close our eyes, shall we? You listed verses for me...lets see if they have something to do with the discussion at hand;- 1.231, 2.113, 33.34, 75(16-19) and 16.44 -What do you want to list when you write 1.231??? I didn’t get that! -2.113 “When it is said to them: "Believe as the others believe:" They say: "Shall we believe as the fools believe?" Nay, of a surety they are the fools, but they do not know.” What does this have to do with the discussion at hand??? Beats me. -33.34 “And recite what is rehearsed to you in your homes, of the Signs of Allah and His Wisdom: for Allah is All-Subtle, All-Aware.” God is talking to the early Muslims...and telling them to recite the Qur`an at their homes. It is a historical fact that Prophet Muhammad would recite the Qur`an to the early Muslims...as it was revealed to him. It was part of their duties to MEMORIZE the Qur`an...because this was part of the PRESERVING the Qur`an---so that no corruption would go into it. While Zaid ibn Thabat wrote the Qur`an down for the Prophet, since he was his scriber...the companions would memorize it---and they’d rehearse it in front of the Prophet. Once, again, Nur, I don’t exactly know what this has to do with the discussion at hand. -75(16-19) “16. Move not thy tongue concerning the (Qurán) to make haste therewith. 17. It is for Us to collect it and to recite it: 18. But when We have recite it, follow thou its recital (as promulgated): 19. Nay more, it is for Us to explain it (and make it clear): ” These are some of the verses...that CLEARLY tell us that Qur`an explains itself. If one place you are not sure...or in dark---there is another place where it is clear and light. This is why God keep repeats some of the histories in different chapters...with different wordings. NOTHING in the Qur`an is too hard to comprehend. It is ONLY hard to understand for those who are forbidden from understanding it. REMEMBER? Those whose hearts are made hard...and are deaf, dumb, and blind. Those who hear...but do not hear, those who recieve it but do not understand...those who see it but do not see it. Ah, Blessed BE the Lord; The King of Man! -16.44 “(We sent them) with Clear Signs and Scriptures; and We have sent down unto thee (also) the Message; that thou mayest explain clearly to men what is sent for them, and that they may give thought.” Of course, being a Messenger...is to deliver the Message. Muhammad(pbuh) was no exception---He delivered the Message, TRUTHFULLY! For people who God made their hearts hard...and made them deaf, dumb, and blind---surely...the Messenger must explain things to them. Whenever verses or chapters were revealed, the Prophet would go into town...and RECITE out-loud his new message. Surely, his message had MANY explanations to the Jews and X-tians...since the Qur`an purifies what is with them, ALREADY. It explains the life that they decieved...and manipulated. The message also explained things to Arab-pagans...who were in a wicked kinds of culture; while they did the practices of the Abrahimia...corruptingly. People need to understand something. Muhammad had TWO personalities; MUHAMMAD and the MESSENGER. Muhammad was the man...who was like any other man---who even made grave mistakes.(please, refer to 66.1) Where Muhammad forbidden himself something that was lawful to him. The Messenger, however, was the staff of God...which delivered the Message, TRUTHFULLY. This is why his daily life as the man(in hadiths) are corruptable...while his career as the Messenger(Qur`an) is never corruptable. BUT, can people concieve that? Believers...do! But, those whose hearts are made hard...and are deaf, dumb, and blind---will never see that...nor will they ever see the Messenger in Muhammad(pbuh)! Nur, Brother, you said; “Ahmed, we have been down this road before, we know the real issue for you here is the believe in the WAHY status of the Hadiths. You have not fell short of dismissing the WAHY status of the Hadith in clear and arrogant defiance to these Quranic verses:” What are you talking about??? WAHY??? What is wahy??? Wahy is the process which the Qur`an was revealed---or a book is being revealed. What does that have to do with hadiths? The Quranic verses...that you listed say nothing about wahy and hadiths. PLEASE, lets get things straight; the Qur`an forbids people to have hadith other than the Quran; a long verse...that ends with; “fabi`ayi xadiithi bacdahu yu`minuun” which litterally means; “WHICH HADITH(SAYINGS) AFTER IT(the Quran) WILL THEY BELIEVE.”(Al-acraf, chapter seven!) We NEED hadiths for history purposes(WHICH can be corrupted, as normal history can be)...but are they like the Qur`an? NO! And NO! And 1000 times NO! IF a hadith contradicts the Qur`an---that hadith is NOT of God. God does NOT contradict himself. BOTH of the hadiths that I cited above...contradict the Qur`an, severely. Believing those hadiths as true...is believing God is unjust to his creations...which is NOT of Islam. Saying; “all women of all time...who betrayed or were unfaithful to their husbands were because of EVE”(because that is what “were it not for EVE, no women would be unfaithful or betrayer to her husband.” means) is purely evil that cannot be of God or His Messenger. Nur, I DO listen to what is of God. I don't listen to corrupted thoughts. There is plenty of that in the world. The Qur`an is pure and all safe. Lets use it as guidance and proof. Had Prophet Muhammad lived today---we'd be all in one way. That is not so today, but we still have ONE WAY; Qur`an. However, most of the Muslims; the Qur`an is not enough for them. They look for things beside it to help them be what they are...this is purely not of God. God gave us an un-corruptable way to be; QUR`AN. Guide me, if you think i'm lost, FROM the Qur`an. And, let me tell you...there isn't one verse in the Qur`an that I don't believe. I submitt to what God revealed in obedience to Him! Eid Mubarak! Peace, Ahmad!
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| | Unrecorded Date I went to the submitters page. They say the same things Ahmed is saying about the prophet. They say that the prophet's "daily life as the man(in hadiths) are corruptible...while his career as the Messenger(Qur`an) is never corruptible" However, the people who think like Ahmed(the submitters) double talk. They do not know that it is them that are corrupted. They say that Hadeeth is corrupted when they themselves corrupt the Quran with their own hadeeth and their own logic explanations. You are dealing with people who say that the Quran is not corrupted when at the same time they delete some verses in Quran. Do you expect people like these to believe Hadeeth when they say the Quran was tampered with and inserted two extra verses? They deleted from the Quran the last two verses of Surah Towba and they say "Qur'an is never corruptible"!! They say they do not follow hadeeth, but they do not know that they are following their own Hadeeth and their own logic. ! Allah said in the Quran "O you who believe! OBEY ALLAH and OBEY THE MESSENGER and MEN of authority from amongst you; then if you quarrel in aught refer it to ALLAH and the MESSENGER, if you indeed believe in Allah and the last Day. That is the best and the fairest interpretation" Suratul-Nisa-59. If "the Messenger must explain things", then he must be more than a message "deliverer". The messenger must be the infallible interpreter and the explainer of the Quran and obedience must be given to him as Allah ordered. Therefore, since the prophet explained the things in the Quran and was more than a deliverer of the message, "Muhammad(pbuh) WAS an exception" Should not then the Muslims obey the explanations of the Quran by the messenger and the learned MEN among the Muslims instead of the explanations of the Quran by Ahmed and people like him?
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| | Unrecorded Date Axmed! Miyaadan weli samrin? Soomalidu waxay dhahdaa: "Hasha geela ayadaa cuneysa, ayadaana cabaadeysa". Yaa Axmed!... shaley soow ma aheyn markii aad dadka ka garbixi weyday oo aad xirtay mowduuc kugu xirmay (jiq), deedna wixii la ogaa qortey (gunaanadkaadi). Oo waxaanba is iri Axmed TEGYEY!, mise!!....god kale ayaad qodatey? Mowduuc aadan iska tiirin karrin, aadna cilmigeed lahayn ayaad haddana shab iska tiri ood furtey ...soow maahan? ...Adiga lee waaye, hadhoow calaacalkaa yaan la arag. Waxaan ku faraxsanahay in ummada SomaliNet Forumka soo booqata oo dhami iska kaa jirayaan ooy ku yaqaaniin. Waligeey ma arag nin kaa caqli xun,....waxaad meelo badan xigatey: "the immorality in the hadiths" hadana cajiib....meelo kale axaadiis ayaad dadka usoo xigatey (source-ahaan). Aba Hureyrana axadiista uu wershay marna waad qaadan, haddii aay kuu cuntami weysona ..daaqada ahh? Waa Qariib waxaad wadid.
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| | Unrecorded Date Nabad iyo Naxariis Ilaahay Korkiina Ha Ahaato Ciid Wanaagsan Kor waxaa ku qoray sagaal qodob oo ku dhaleeceeyay qoraaga mawduucan hadana waxaa ku darayaa tii tobnaad: Qoraaga mawduucan dad badan baa ku tilmaamay in uu yahay GAAL ama YAHUUD iyo wax la mid ah. Waxaan taagnaa walaalayaal qof Ashahaadanaya ha ku dhihina GAAL. Hase yeeshee qoraagu wuxuu ka gudbay xitaa xadkii isagu dhigtay oo wuxuu joogaa in yiraahdo Nebigeenii Suubanaa Calayhi Salaatu Wasalaam wuxuu ahaa nin WAALAN oo leh (split personality)ama sida Soomaalidu tiraahdo Qof lagu jiro oo Marna ah BEENLOW SIXRAN oo Wax aan jirin sheegta marna ah RASUUL si daacad ah u soo gudbiya FARIINTA Ilaahay. Adiguba akhri qoraalkiisa: "People need to understand something. Muhammad had TWO personalities; MUHAMMAD and the MESSENGER. Muhammad was the man...who was like any other man---who even made grave mistakes.(please, refer to 66.1) Where Muhammad forbidden himself something that was lawful to him. The Messenger, however, was the staff of God...which delivered the Message, TRUTHFULLY. This is why his daily life as the man(in hadiths) are corruptable...while his career as the Messenger(Qur`an) is never corruptable. BUT, can people concieve that? Believers...do! But, those whose hearts are made hard...and are deaf, dumb, and blind---will never see that...nor will they ever see the Messenger in Muhammad(pbuh)!" Sidaa darteed waxaan caddaynayaa in qoraaga macduucan uusan ahayn GAAL ama YAHUUD ee uu yahay mid intaa ka fog aadna uga XUN. Qoraagani waa MUNAAFAQ waxaana marag iiga ah Ilaahay oo Qur'aankiisa noogu sheegay: Suurat Al-Munaafiqiin (63:1)"Idaa Jaa'aka Almunaafiquun qaaluu nash-hadu Anaka Larasuulu Allah, Wa Allahu Yaclamu Inaka Larasuulahu, Wa Allahu Yash-haddu Inna Almunaafiqiinu La Kaadibuun." Haddii Ilaahay Idmana waxaan mid mid uga jawaabi doonaa tobanka qodob ee MUNAAFAQANI Ilaahay iyo Rasuulka kula dagaalamayo. Ilaahay Noo Naxariiso
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| | Unrecorded Date Asalama Alaykum! Ansaari and Umar---why bother? You know I won't debate with you...OR the likes of you. I debate with people who can up-hold a deceny...untill their other side takes over(as we see in Walaalkiin). YOURS have gone forth---I don't need you...or your personalities. You can experience your latest personality in Walaalkiin---Ah, I'm Muslim...who does NOT give a damn anyone's personal thoughts of me. It's ONLY Allah's that matters to me, sufficient is He who gives life! Does a man who trusts in HIM need a man who eats, dies, and decays? Nah! :) ****************************************************************** People NEED to understand that Muhammad(pbuh) was a MAN and a MESSENGER! He was NOT crazy...nor had multiple personalities. In Muhammad, he can make mistakes and SIN(66.1)...in the Messenger, he was spirit that delivered the Message(4.170) TRUTHFULLY! "3.144 Muhammad is no more than a messenger: many were the a messengers that passed away before him. Is it that if he died or were slain, will ye then turn back on your heels? If any did turn back on his heels, not the least harm will he do to Allah. But Allah (on the other hand) will swiftly reward those who (serve Him) with gratitude." "3.144 Muhammad is no more than a messenger: many were the a messengers that passed away before him. Is it that if he died or were slain, will ye then turn back on your heels? If any did turn back on his heels, not the least harm will he do to Allah. But Allah (on the other hand) will swiftly reward those who (serve Him) with gratitude." I guess a person who insults others has no capability of understanding, to BEGIN with. However, TRUTH is far from error. The QUR`AN is complete---nothing is added nor is there anything taken from it. There is a sect in Shia who has A WHOLE chapter added to the Qur`an...there are Egyptians who took out verses, etc etc etc! Does that matter? The Qur`an is heavenly protected---none can tamper with it...but people who are ignorant and lost. Do we count the actions of the wicked now? The submitters are no better than those who added a whole chapter to the Qur`an titled and talks about ALI! The Qur`an is PROTECTED---period...and whoever tampers with it...only does so with a copy that they have; does that matter? NO! Let the ignorants do what they wish! Blessed is the God who sufficient against the wrong-doers! I hope all Muslims have a wonderful year to come... Peace, Ahmad!
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| | Unrecorded Date Ahmed knows that I've never insulted him, so why does he say that he can only debate with people who can up-hold a decency? I said that Ahmed thinks like the submitters do and that is not an insult. If the Quran is complete, why does Ahmed explain the Quran with his own logic interpretations? Ahmed is saying that the prophet was simply a deliver of the Quran. Also, Ahmed says that Muhammad(pbuh) was no exception!! However, we know that our messenger was more than an exceptional. The messenger was also more than a deliverer of the Quran. His life was an illustration and explanation of the Quran itself. Ahmed said that the prophet made GRAVE mistakes.(please, refer to 66.1), but does this mean that the prophet committed disobedience which is a sin. No, it DOES NOT. The prophet NEVER committed disobedience against Allah nor has he sinned. Rather, the prophet Muhammad(pbuh) WAS an exceptional, unlike what Ahmed is trying to make our messenger out to be. "And verily, you(O Muhammad) are on an EXALTED STANDARD OF CHARACTER"--68:4 Allah said to His messenger to tell the people this: "Say(O Muhammad to mankind): "If you(really)love Allah then follow me, Allah will love you...3:31 Allah described His messenger this way: "Assuredly there has come to you a messenger from among yourselves; heavy upon him is whatever harasses you, and who is SOLICITIOUS for you and is unto the faithful TENDER and MERCIFUL. 9-129
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| | Unrecorded Date Amiin to all Umar,Nur,Ansaari,Walaalkiin. AHMED. I see you are little pit scared. But not to worry dear enemy! You will have your head filled with XUJO. Also, You can copy submitter pages and comments here as much as you like for a confusion does not bring an order. Stick around, will ya?. Don't run like a scared rabbit and don't come back two days later with nothing but the same kutirikuten.
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| | Unrecorded Date Asalama Alaykum Muslims! Umar, You keep telling me i'm *submitter*---that is not insult? gimme a break! I take some of submitters' teachings...but I take some of Shias, Sunnis, Suffis, Wahabis, etc---this NOT because i'm ANY of them...but because as I SAID many times, the religion is between all of them. I'm NOTHING but a Muslim---you want me to be more than that...and truly that itself is insult to me. LETS stick with neutralism...IF you want debate. OTHERWISE, we can't have any. I'm keep telling somalis that they're in idoltry...but i'm not making anybody be what they're not---nor am I personally attacking anybody. NOR am I blaming any of the current people. There is a debate(where neutrally...each attacks the other idea, neutrally and peacefully) and there is a personal attack---i'm not intereseted the later one. LETS see what you said: "MUHAMMAD(pbuh) WAS AN EXCEPTIONAL" My God, and that is Islam? OK, people! Muhammad's character was exalted standard...but he was NOT exceptional...nor was he anything BUT a man like us. PLEASE, read the following Qur`anic verses; "[4.78] Wherever you are, death will overtake you, though you are in lofty towers, and if a benefit comes to them, they say: This is from Allah; and if a misfortune befalls them, they say: This is from you. Say: All is from Allah, but what is the matter with these people that they do not make approach to understanding what is told (them)? [4.79] Whatever benefit comes to you, it is from Allah, and whatever misfortune befalls you, it is from yourself, and We have sent you (O Prophet!), to mankind as an apostle; and Allah is sufficient as a witness. [4.80] Whoever obeys the Apostle, he indeed obeys Allah, and whoever turns back, so We have not sent you as a keeper over them." "[33.37] And when you said to him to whom Allah had shown favor and to whom you had shown a favor: Keep your wife to yourself and be careful of (your duty to) Allah; and you concealed in your soul what Allah would bring to light, and you feared men, and Allah had a greater right that you should fear Him. But when Zaid had accomplished his want of her, We gave her to you as a wife, so that there should be no difficulty for the believers in respect of the wives of their adopted sons, when they have accomplished their want of them; and Allah's command shall be performed." "[2.285] The apostle believes in what has been revealed to him from his Lord, and (so do) the believers; they all believe in Allah and His angels and His books and His apostles; We make no difference between any of His apostles; and they say: We hear and obey, our Lord! Thy forgiveness (do we crave), and to Thee is the eventual course." "[41.6] Say: I am only a mortal like you; it is revealed to me that your God is one God, therefore follow the right way to Him and ask His forgiveness; and woe to the polytheists;" And people say the Prophet was EXCEPTIONAL? What an idoltry world! SORRY, but give me something better---that is not it. This is the doom...where Satan makes people think that Messengers are more than Messengers...when God repeats; they're LIKE you! "12:109 Nor did We send before thee (as apostles) any but men, whom we did inspire,- (men) living in human habitations. Do they not travel through the earth, and see what was the end of those before them? But the home of the hereafter is best, for those who do right. Will ye not then understand?" "4:163 We have sent thee inspiration, as We sent it to Noah and the Messengers after him: we sent inspiration to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob and the Tribes, to Jesus, Job, Jonah, Aaron, and solomon, and to David We gave the Psalms." Muhammad must have not have human habitations, eh? Humans tend to mistake---I guess not, eh?...or he must have been so exceptional that A DIFFERENT way was inspired things to him. Logically, Jesus was MORE exceptional than Muhammad. He was born without a father, he put life to death...and brought the dead to life, he brought food from the sky to his companions, he was the Messiah that was destined to save and have the power of THREE, he was died without leaving children, he was raised above ALIVE, he comes back from heaven, NONE which Muhammad did, BUT, to me, he(Jesus) was also just another messenger...who lived and married and so on and so forth. I wonder what is wrong with X-tians then? Was it not because they tried to make the Messengers what they were not? Ah, hell was not created out of unneccasity. The Qur`an is MADE EASY IN OUR TONGUES, EASY TO REMEMBER, AND EASY TO UNDERSTAND:(refer to 19:97, 44:58, 54:17, 54:22, [44:58 Verily, We have made this (Qur'an) easy, in thy tongue, in order that they may give heed. 54:17 And We have indeed made the Qur'an easy to understand and remember: then is there any that will receive admonition?(in this chapter...GOD KEEP repeats over and over this verse---I WONDER WHY!) So, who should I believe? AL-BAANI?...or God? REMEMBER, How God does NOT, even one time, say...you need an explanation for it...because the explanation is INSIDE it. Ah, God is Merciful! I guess...some people cannot grasp that---could it be because their hearts are hardened...and they're made deaf, dumb, and blind? MAYBE! I don't know...I cannot tell that---i'm not from God as a messenger...I can only speak for my own understanding and seeing and hearing. Ah, well, what the heck---after all, in the end, it profits me or harms me, right? :) Peace, Ahmad!
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| | Unrecorded Date Asalaamu Calalykum yaa ikhwati filcaqiidda. Ciid Wanaagsan ! Another interesting article??! Marka hore sidaan horeba u idhi Hadii Diinta aan loo fahmin si guud oo shaamil ah, dhibaatooyinka ka yimaadda waxaa ka mid ah kuwan aan hayno iyo kuwo ka daranba. Waxaa la yaab ah in Qoraaga mowduucan(Ahmad)uu marka horeba aragtidiisa ku duldhisayo Logic aad u cajiib badan...He wrote " The Qur`an...does NOWHERE teach that Eve was to blame for anything she caused Adam to do---it doesn’t even give the SLIGHTEST hint that she was---any less or more guilty than Adam."!! ok, and again he wrote " Muslims blame EVE, like Jews/X-tians do" he keeps his argument until he said very loudly "ANYWAY, the Hadiths...agree with the Bible. It is ironic...`cause the hadith looks a copy of the Bible to me;"!!!!!! Su'aalaha Isweydiinta mudan hadaba waxay yihiin Diina Islaamku ma siday noola muuqato miyaa mise waa Qaala Laahu waqaala Rasuulu Laah ? Kala geynta lakala gaynayo Rabbi subxanahu watacaal iyo Rasuulkiisa ma diinba?kala fogeynta lakala fogeynayo muslimiinta iyo Rasuulkoodii Muhamed(s.w.c) ma diinbaa?Diintuse ma ra'yi iyo waxay ila tahay miyaa? Su'aasha aan hadda ka hor weydiiyey AHMAD-, iminkana walaalaha kale weydiiyeen waxay tahay Qur'anka ma aaminsantahay DHAMAANTIIS mise qaar baad ka aaminsan tahay? Haday jawaabtu tahay qaarbaan ka soo taaganahay sida xadiista, waa war cad, Haddii aad wada aaminsan tahay dhamaantiisna su'aalo badan ayaa jira oo u baahan in aad ka jawaabtid. Arinta Qur'anka iyo Diimaha kale meel baan ku tiirinay baan u malaynayaa, haddana bal ayno qur'aanka laftiisa iyo xiriirka uu la leeyahay Sunnadda Nabi Muxammed (s.w.c) iyo sida aad u fahamsan tahay ayno isla meeldhigno.
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| | Unrecorded Date If Ahmed is "keep telling somalis that they're in idoltry" is not an insult, what makes an insult when he is told that he is like the submitters? Ahmed says "OK, people! Muhammad's character was exalted standard...but he was NOT exceptional", but Ahmed didn't tell us who else was given an EXALTED STANDARD CHARACTER other than Muhammed? Is prophet Muhammed like Ahmed and umar or any other human being who is a sinner? No where did Allah say the prophet Muhammed SINNED or committed disobedience, so where did Ahmed get this information? Did Allah tell the people to FOLLOW and OBEY a prophet and a messenger who SINS ? Ahmed is contradicting the Quran which he says he follows. These verses Ahmed pointed out does not contradict or say the prophet was NOT an exceptional nor was a SINNER like Ahmed and Umar. "[4.78] Wherever you are, death will overtake you, though you are in lofty towers, and if a benefit comes to them, they say: This is from Allah; and if a misfortune befalls them, they say: This is from you. Say: All is from Allah, but what is the matter with these people that they do not make approach to understanding what is told (them)? [4.79] Whatever benefit comes to you, it is from Allah, and whatever misfortune befalls you, it is from yourself, and We have sent you (O Prophet!), to mankind as an apostle; and Allah is sufficient as a witness. [4.80] Whoever obeys the Apostle, he indeed obeys Allah, and whoever turns back, so We have not sent you as a keeper over them." All these verses talk about and is addressing is the HYPOCRITES who hate to fight in the way of Allah. If the hypocrites reaches some good, they say it is from Allah----not to any excellence on the part of the holy Prophet and the Muslims---And if there reaches them some ill, they(the hypocrites) say to the Prophet--it is because of three--in their intense hatred of the Prophet and the Muslims---then Allah contradicts the hypocrites way of thinking and says to the prophet to tell them---"Say thou: from Allah is everything . What ails then this people(the hypocrites) that they do not understand any speech" Also this verses Ahmed pointed out does not say the prophet was NOT an exceptional or a SINNER like Ahmed and Umar: The prophet did not commit a SIN or DISOBEIDANCE against Allah as Ahmed is trying to make it out to be: "[33.37] And when you said to him to whom Allah had shown favor and to whom you had shown a favor: Keep your wife to yourself and be careful of (your duty to) Allah; and you concealed in your soul what Allah would bring to light, and you feared men, and Allah had a greater right that you should fear Him. But when Zaid had accomplished his want of her, We gave her to you as a wife, so that there should be no difficulty for the believers in respect of the wives of their adopted sons, when they have accomplished their want of them; and Allah's command shall be performed." This verse is talking about the Zaid's marraige with the Prophet's cousin Zainab which did not turn out happy as the prophet wished. Zaid wished to divorce her, but the Prophet asked him to hold his hand and Zaid obeyed. She was closely related to the Prophet and people would certainly talk about if such a marraige was broken off and poor Zainab's reputation would be ruined. This was the fear in the mind of the Prophet. So, by way of counsel, NOT OF COMMAND, the prophet said to Zaid to "keep thy wife to thyself and fear Allah". Allah reminded the Prophet "And recall when thou wast saying to him(Zaid) on whom Allah had conferred a favor(by making him one of the earliest converts of Islam) and thou(prophet) hadst conferred a favor(by making him a freeman): Keep thy wife to thyself and fear Allah(be observant of thy duty of Allah) and thou DID NOT conceal within thee what Allah was going to disclose(the fact of the prophet's marriage with Zainab after her divorce from Zaid) and thou was fearing mankind, while Allah had a greater right that Him thou shouldst fear(the prophet was reminded that the affair which he was considering to be a purely private and domestic affair of his own, did not concern him alone; it was a matter of public duty, inaugurating, besides other advantages, a much-needed reform). Then when Zaid had accomplished his purpose regarding her(had dissolved his marriage with her), We wedded her to thee(O prophet) so that there should be no blame on the believers in respect of wives of their adopted sons, when they have accomplished their purpose with regard t them. And the ordinance of Allah was to be fulfilled(respecting marriage and divorce of adopted children, irrespective of the particular episode that has been the occasion of this ordinance)" As you can see, the Prophet didn't SIN or did he DISOBEIED Allah, unlike Ahmed and Umar. Ahmed cited another verse that will show that the prophet was NOT an exceptional or a SINNER like us: "[2.285] The apostle believes in what has been revealed to him from his Lord, and (so do) the believers; they all believe in Allah and His angels and His books and His apostles; We make no difference between any of His apostles; and they say: We hear and obey, our Lord! Thy forgiveness (do we crave), and to Thee is the eventual course." The verse says that the prophet was the first to believe in the Message of Allah, the apostle himself, then the believers. "They all believe in Allah and His angles and His Books and His messengers, saying "we discriminate not against any of his messengers(as far as the fact of apostelship is concerned by accepting some and rejecting the others unlike the Jews who receive Moses and reject Jesus, also unlike the Christians, who receive the prophet of Israel but reject the holy Prophet of Islam). And they say, "we hear and obey; Thy forgiveness, our Lord! and to Thee is our return" Nowhere does the verse say the Prophet Muhammed is like Ahmed and Umar nor does it say he SINS like Ahmed and Umar, as Ahmed is trying to make it out to be. Does this verse(41:6) say that the prophet was NOT an exceptional or a SINNER as Ahmed said?: [41.6] Say: I am only a mortal like you; it is revealed to me that your God is one God, therefore follow the right way to Him and ask His forgiveness; and woe to the polytheists;" Does this verse(12:109) say the prophet as moral of flesh and bone, compared with other human being like Ahmed and Umar was NOT an exceptional or a Sinner?: 12:109 Nor did We send before thee (as apostles) any but men, whom we did inspire,- (men) living in human habitations. Do they not travel through the earth, and see what was the end of those before them? But the home of the hereafter is best, for those who do right. Will ye not then understand?" I don't understand!---does Ahmed want us to believe like the Christians and the Jews who say the prophets of Allah committed SIN and where NOT exceptional human being?: "4:163 We have sent thee inspiration, as We sent it to Noah and the Messengers after him: we sent inspiration to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob and the Tribes, to Jesus, Job, Jonah, Aaron, and solomon, and to David We gave the Psalms." So, who should I believe? Ahmed and Submitters who say the Prophet of Allah, Muhammed, committed SIN and was NOT an exceptional unlike the submitters, Ahmed and people like umar or do we believe Allah who says "And verily, you(O Muhammad) are on an EXALTED STANDARD OF CHARACTER"--68:4 ? We Muslims, unlike Ahmed, believe that our prophet did SIN. Allah Himself protected His prophet from doing any SIN. No human being, Jin or satan was able to cause the prophet to fall into any error(SIN)...if they tried to do that, they could not succeed as Allah protected His messanger, Muhammad. And "were not the Grace of Allah and His MERCY on thee(Muhammad), a party of them had surely resolved to mislead thee(O prophet), whereas they mislead not themselves; they shall NOT BE ABLE to HURT thee(O prophet) in aught. And Allah has sent down to thee(O Muhammad) the Book AND Wisdom and has taught thee(O Muhammad) what thou knowest not; and the GRACE of Allah on THEE(O my Prophet Muhammad) is EVER MIGHT(It was this UNVARYING and constant Divine GRACE which made it IMPOSSIBLE for ANY ONE to lead the HOLY PROPHET MUHAMMED ASTRAY(to SIN). --------Suratul-NISA 133 Ahmed and the submitters can say the prophet SINNED as much as they want, but Allah Himself protected His prophet from any SIN and Allah has given His prophet GRACE. Allah said in his Holy Book about His Holy Prophet this when Allah was talking about protecting His Holy Messanger from any bad things....from any other human being, Satan, Jin or even the sin itslef. " And if We(Allah) willed, We(Allah) could surely take away waht We have reavealed to thee(O propeht), THEN THOU WILT NOT FIND AGAINST US ANY PROTECTOR. Except as a MERCY from the LORD, verily HIS GRACE unto thee(O prophet) is EVER GREAT. Suratul Bani Israel 86-7. So there is no fear of the possiblity of SIN becoming a fact in the prophet's EXALTED STANDARD OF CHARACTER "And verily, you(O Muhammad) are on an EXALTED STANDARD OF CHARACTER"--68:4
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| | Unrecorded Date Correction: "We Muslims, unlike Ahmed, believe that our prophet did NOT SIN".
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| | Unrecorded Date Ahmad-Yahuudy is an evil man. He has been flirting and fiddling with the very foundations of Islam while declaring at every turn that he is Muslim! Through his different posts (all of them starting with THREE DOTS) he has displayed a pattern of attack whose exclusive aim IS to reduce and dilute the authority of hadith in Islam and subsequently insinuate that our Prophet (pbuh) is a false prophet. What is difficult to fathom (and I hope to get to the bottom of this) is why someone (Ahmad) would gleefully try to unhinge and uproot the very foundations of same religion he/she professes to believe in! It does not make sense at all. It would make a lot of sense if these attacks were coming from a declared ENEMY of Islam. In which case, they (the attacks against Islam) would draw return-fire from scholars after being examined rationally on issue by issue basis, just as has been done over the centuries. However, here we have a ‘Muslim’ undermining Islam! Hereinafter, I want us to scrutinize and examine certain aspects of this person calling himself AHMAD. Firstly, it is essential to state and stress that AHMAD is not a man of Islamic learning. He is not qualified to speak on matters pertaining to Islam for he has not said he is a scholar of the Muslim faith! If a person writes an article/s claiming that a concrete beam on a bridge used by millions has been designed wrong, we expect him at least to be qualified in the field he is discussing, and that he passes its most basic tests. If then we find in his article/s obvious and repetitious errors, false logic, swaying convictions, etc, we conclude that he does not have the minimal qualifications to discuss the subject. It is a fundamental requirement of a critic to pass the preliminary tests of any subject under discussion, otherwise his contributions to the discussions would not deserve any consideration. My point is this: When reading through AHMAD’s ATTACK on Islam, we are surprised to find errors that prove beyond the least doubt, that the person/s writing them would not pass elementary school in the subject he fooling around with! Islamic learning is not AHMAD’s avenue. He is absolutely confused in trying to dilute the authority of Hadith. His confusion is the product of his stark ignorance of the Islamic faith in TOTALITY. Clearly, he is dabbling in matters about which he has no knowledge and possesses no ability and no qualification. All Muslims should beware of the un-Islamic and BAATIL propagation of those who hold no status in Islamic knowledge. Secondly about the Submitters and Rashad Khalifa. The architect of the so called Submitters’ ‘sect’ Rashad Khalifa, was a man who had openly committed KUFR by saying that “that the last two verses in the Qur'an in Sura nine are false, and should not form part of the Qur'an!” and by translating the Qur’an improperly. It must follow therefore that anyone pedaling and preaching Rashad Khalifa's theories and KUFR to unsuspecting Muslim visitor of this forums, must be a BIG KAAFIR and a Submitter himself! There is no doubt in my mind anyone trying to defend let alone selling Rashad Khalifa's mad theories is a Submitter and a BIG KAAFIR. Our brother AHMAD has been quoted from the submitters’ forums as QUESTIONING WHETHER PROPHET MOHAMMAD (pbuh) WAS THE LAST PROPHET ALLAH (swt) SENT OR NOT!! I have noticed AHMAD has been very very SILENT on this issue! Indeed, very strange for a man who is vocal (literally, the guy shouts in his posts!) I will have to end here, but insha-allah, I will post more articles on the erratic and wildly variable characteristics Ahmad has been exhibiting in this forums. AHMAD ponder this English saying; If you don't like the heat, don't stay in the kitchen. Thanks
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| | Unrecorded Date Dear brothers and sisters; IID MUBARAK everyone, I see a lot has happened since my festive break. Ahmad in my last post I have asked you this ( "Can you again tell me from the two Hadiths you quoted where it says that Women are not people? Or Women are not just like men? Or Women are weirder than men are? Or Women are more unfaithful or betrayers than men?" ) And you have answered me with this; * My saying that of that...was from the hadiths' saying that HAD IT NOT BEEN FOR EVE WOMEN WOULD NOT BE UNFAITHFUL OR BETRAYING TOWARDS THEIR HUSBANDS. Thus, making WOMEN some more wicked or not the same hight-level of humanity as Men. * God, what an answer! Where in this very hadith (you just put in capital letters above) does it say that; Women are some more wicked than men? Or Women are not the same high-level of humanity as men? Can’t you actually see the meaning of what you cite? The hadith is talking about women and when (the time) did the “unfaithfulness or betrayal habits” (WOMEN’S HABITS) started, and how that habit has continued through generations and how it had not happened had it not started at the time of EVE, the hadith is neither talking about men’s habits nor is it comparing humanity aristocratic classes. Is that too difficult to grasp? Brothers and sisters, while listing some quranic verses in my last post, I have listed as this; 1.231, 2.113, 33.34, 75(16-19) and 16.44 I have made the mistake of basing surat al baqarah as the first surah in the qur’an, for the first two verses, this was a mistake as surat al fatixah is the first surah of the qur’an and surat al baqarah is the second surah, so 1.231, 2.113, will actually be 2.231, 3.113, but the rest are correct as 33.34, 75(16-19) and 16.44, I apologies for any inconvenience or any miscomprehension this typing error have caused. I will use again these verses and their contents by re-posting here an edited early post of mine. The Qur'an has clearly endorsed the WAHY status of the hadith, explanations and the wisdom (hikmah) of the prophet Muhammad peace be upon him. Most of the Islamic scholars (who use good way of learning) have confirmed that the authenticated hadiths of the prophet (pbuh) can be called hikmah or wisdom, the Qur`an has said for that matter. 2.231. When ye divorce women, and they fulfil the term of their ('Iddat), either take them back on equitable terms or set them free on equitable terms; but do not take them back to injure them, (or) to take undue advantage; if any one does that; He wrongs his own soul. Do not treat Allah.s Signs as a jest, but solemnly rehearse Allah.s favours on you, and the fact that He sent down to you the Book and Wisdom, for your instruction. And fear Allah, and know that Allah is well acquainted with all things. Where does all the legislation (tashriic) for this particular matter is coming from Watch the language SENT DOWN TO YOU THE BOOK AND ‘WISDOM’… FOR YOUR INSTRUCTION, This means the two components of WAHY (revelation) that Allah sent down to Prophet Muhammad (Pbuh) is the BOOK (Qur`an) AND WISDOM (Hadith of the prophet). “FOR YOUR INSTRUCTION” subxaanalaah, (glory be to Allah) Allah has revealed in the Qur’an the sharai’c of divorce and the prophet through revelation from Allah has instructed all to do with divorce, in detail, in his hadith. Allah sent down both the BOOK and WISDOM to us for our INSTRUCTION (read the verse again) The Qur`an has also stated; 4.113 But for the Grace of Allah to thee and his Mercy, a party of them would certainly have plotted to lead thee astray. But (in fact) they will only Lead their own souls astray, and to thee they can do no harm in the least. For Allah hath sent down to thee the Book and wisdom and taught thee what thou Knewest not (before): And great is the Grace of Allah unto thee. Glory be to Allah (suxaanalaah): the Qur’an have already spoken about what we are now dealing with, in this right moment, and how people of skewed arguments will end up leading astray ONLY their own souls, the Qur’an also have spoken of what weapon to use against those people. THE BOOK AND WISDOM Ahmed, their will be no partitioning between the BOOK and WISDOM. On the other hand when the Qur’an was talking as an integral part of what was being read in the houses of umahat ul mu'minin (prophet’s wives), in clear contradiction to what Ahmad narrated like this; ** God is talking to the early Muslims...and telling them to recite the Qur`an at their homes. It is a historical fact that Prophet Muhammad would recite the Qur`an to the early Muslims...as it was revealed to him. It was part of their duties to MEMORIZE the Qur`an...because this was part of the PRESERVING the Qur`an---so that no corruption would go into it. While Zaid ibn Thabat wrote the Qur`an down for the Prophet, since he was his scriber...the companions would memorize it---and they’d rehearse it in front of the Prophet. Once, again, Nur, I don’t exactly know what this has to do with the discussion at hand. ** Ahmed, the verses are not talking to early Muslims, but talking to the wives of prophet Mohamed (pbuh), and I will tell you what these verses have to do with the WAHY (revelation) status of the hadith The qur’an has declared; 33.32. O Consorts of the Prophet! Ye are not like any of the (other) women: if ye do fear ((Allah)), be not too complacent of speech, lest one in whose heart is a disease should be moved with desire: but speak ye a speech (that is) just. 33.33. And stay quietly in your houses, and make not a dazzling display, like that of the former Times of Ignorance; and establish regular Prayer, and give regular Charity; and obey Allah and His Messenger. And Allah only wishes to remove all abomination from you, ye members of the Family, and to make you pure and spotless. 33.34. And recite what is rehearsed to you in your homes, of the Signs of Allah and His Wisdom: for Allah understands the finest mysteries and is well-acquainted (with them). SIGNS OF ALLAH AND HIS WISDOM (in Arabic recitation) * aayaatil laahi wal xikmah * Was there any revelation revealed on the prophet (pbuh) and read in the houses of the umahat al mu’minin (prophets’s wives) after the Qur’an rather than the Hadith? That manifests his sayings, actions, and assertions? And perhaps the clearest verses in the Qur`an declaring the WAHY (revelation) status of the Hadith is; (75.16-19 ) 16. Move not thy tongue concerning the (Qur'an) to make haste therewith. 17. It is for Us to collect it and to promulgate it: 18. But when We have promulgated it, follow thou its recital (as promulgated): 19. Nay more, it is for Us to explain it (and make it clear): Ahmad says * These are some of the verses...that CLEARLY tell us that Qur`an explains itself. * No Ahmad this verses tells us the revelation explaining itself, and what Allah means by returning the explanation of the Qur’an to himself besides his sayings in another verse 16.44 and We have sent down unto thee (also) the Message; that thou mayest explain clearly to men what is sent for them The qur,an is talking to prophet Mohammed(pbuh), this is clearly the Hadith of prophet Mohamed (pbuh) explaining Qur’an With our knowledge that Allah has not explained every think in detail in the Qur’an, doesn't that mean the explanations of the prophet which is manifested in his sayings, actions and assertions IS the explanations of Allah which itself is nothing other than WAHY? And Ahmad continues to say thinks like: * We NEED hadiths for history purposes (WHICH can be corrupted, as normal history can be * No Ahmad, the hadith of the prophet Mohammed (pbuh)is the WAHY of Allah to his prophet (pbuh) and we need Allah’s WAHY (revelation) for our salvation in this world and the world hereafter. But I am not surprised at you Ahmed, as you have taken your retribution against the Hadith of prophet Mohammed (pbuh) further into transgression against the personality of prophet Mohamed (pbuh) Then you use cheap tactics such as misquoting the Qur’an when you say things like: * lets get things straight; the Qur`an forbids people to have hadith other than the Quran; a long verse...that ends with; “fabi`ayi xadiithi bacdahu yu`minuun” which litterally means; “WHICH HADITH(SAYINGS) AFTER IT(the Quran) WILL THEY BELIEVE.”(Al-acraf, chapter seven!) * Well, let us quote that long verse, shall we; 7. 185. Do they see nothing in the government of the heavens and the earth and all that Allah hath created? (Do they not see) that it may well be that their terms is nigh drawing to an end? In what message after this will they then believe? Is this talking about the Hadiths of prophet Mohamed (pbuh)? Do you actually understand what you cite? Regards Ciid mubarak every one
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| | Unrecorded Date One more Quranic verse for Ahmed which proves that our prophet was a SINLESS----a verse that contradicts Ahmed's believe that our prophet Muhammad committed sin like any other ordinary men and a verse that proves that our prophet Muhammad was an exceptional human being. "And surely they had nearly tempted thee away(O prophet!--some of the Arab pagans had pressed on the Prophet certain privileges as the terms of their submission to Islam) from what We have Revealed to thee(O prophet), that thou(O prophet) should fabricate regarding Us(Allah) something else, and then surely they(the Arab pagans) would have taken thee(O prophet) as a friend!. And were it not that We(Allah) had CONFIRMED thee(O prophet-in SPECAIL and EXCEPTIONAL MEASURE, and had already, as a prophet, made you SINLESS) thou had almost leaned towards them a little(in thy anxiety to win over those pagans to the cause of Islam--i.e., you would have inclined to grant them some small concessions; but as even this was derogatory to your position as a sinless prophet, Allah prevented you from this inclination even....Prophet's not inclining to them little or much is understood from in the arabic term--LAWLAA--which requires this inference). In that case(purely hypothetical) We(Allah) would have surely made thee(O prophet) taste the double of the torment of life and the double of the torment of death(because of your very high and exceptional responsibility as a messenger), and then thou(O prophet) wouldest find a helper against Us(Allah). And surely they had almost unsettled thee(O prophet--by their apparent solicitude...the Jews, envious as they were of the Holy prophet's reception and stay in Madina, had advised him, seemingly in all sincerity, to emigrate to Syria, which, they said, had always been the land of the prophets) from the land that they might drive thee(O prophet) forth from hence. And in that case(if you had actually departed from the city), they would not have tarried after thee(O prophet) but a little while(had the Prophet departed, the unbelieving people too would not have been left untouched for long...The Prophet's departure was sure to prove a precursor of Divine wrath on them). This was Our(swift destruction of a people after the forced departure of their prophet) dispensation with those whom We(Allah) sent before thee(O prophet) of Our messengers and thou(O prophet) wilt not find a change in this Our dispensation"---Suratul-Bani Israel 73-77. So as you can see, the prophet is not allowed to be tempted, let alone have sinful tendency against himself. The Prophet of Allah couldn't sin, for Allah said in His Book ALAM NASHRAX LAKA SAT-RAK which roughly means "Have we not opened for you(O prophet) thy breast(by disposing and expanding it to receive the Truth and Wisdom and by freeing it from ignorance, sinful thinking, disobedience and uneasiness, Prophet)---Suratul-Inshirah, The Opening Forth Ayah 1........WARA FACNAA LAKA DIG-RAK which roughly means "And We(Allah) have EXALTED THY fame"----Allah always AIDED and BLESSED His prophet and said to His prophet this--"...And verily Allah is to you TENDER, MERCIFUL---WA INNA-LAAHA BIKUM LA-RA-UUFUN RAXIIM", so how could the prophet have SINNED and NOT be an EXCEPTIONAL human being when Allah Himself was protecting His prophet Muhammad this way?!!..Suratul-Hadid 9.
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| | Unrecorded Date AHMED IS A SUBMITTER. -He believes that prophet muhammad is not the last and he said in the submitter forums ""I visited the sites of these people. And most of what they believe is islam. OK, so they believe somebody was a messenger----well, lets start with this: WAS muhammed the last prophet or messenger? When we solve this....we will have our answer". This is the true AHMED, the submitter diehard who follows RASHAD KHALIFA.
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| | Unrecorded Date Not so fast AHMED ADAM SUBMITTER.(You are not planning to dissapear are you?.) Another proof that AHMED IS A SUBMITTER. Acopy from www.quran.org or www.moslem.org. submitter homepage. HADITH CAUSED DEVIATION FROM QURAN (3) Do you mention other names beside God's in Salat? It is God's commandment that we shall not mention any names in our Salat prayers, beside the name of God (72:18). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ But the Muslim masses today follow the innovations that dictate upon them the praising and glorifying of Muhammad and Abraham, while praying to their Lord. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "The mosques belong to God; therefore, do not mention any other names beside the name of God." (72:18) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ___________________________________ WHAT IS MORE CLEAR THAN THAT? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The "Muslims" have been duped by Satan into uttering the innovation known as "Tashahhud" where they shower praises and glorifications on Muhammad and Abraham. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ It should be noted that even the sources of Hadith & Sunna recognize "Tashahhud" as an innovation which is not part of the Salat prayers! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ IS THIS NOT FLAGRANT IDOL-WORSHIP??? There we go, We have ahmed adam SUBMITTER's ideology in prints from his SUBMITTER BROTHERS. Believers in RASHAD KHALIFA.
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| | Unrecorded Date Salaamucaeykum, Saaxiibayaal marka hore waxaan idinka codsanayaa inaad ku qortaan doodiina af soomaali si aan idinkala qeyb qaadanno...Tan kale saaxiib axmed kuma fahmin ma adaa qaldan mise umadda inteeda kale?. Ogow saaxiib haddii umaddaa islaamka ah waxay kugu sheegayaan ay run tahay waxaad ku sugan tahay khatar waxaanna kugula talinayaa inaad ALLAH u noqoto,haddii ayan sidaa aheynna aad u sheegto walaalahaa xaqiiqdaada si ay kaaga gar baxaan...
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| | Unrecorded Date hello, asad like you sad waxaan ka cod sanayaa in aad dhihin mar kale waxaad tiri wayo waxaa jiro dad aan aqonin af ka somaliga si da logoro amba hada ayaan bar tay wayo wa lugadaydi,hadaa rab tina atention in lu gu siyana I am afraid you can not have it.
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| | Unrecorded Date Nabad iyo Naxariis Ilaahay Korkiina Ha Ahaato Waxaan Friday, January 7, 2000 - 12:23 pm kor ku qoray in qoraaga mawduucan furay ayna "ekaan doodiisa ah waxaan ahay Muslim mana ihi SUNNI ee wuxuu u gudbay arrimo aad u ba'an oo khatar iyo kharibaad ku ah DIINTA ISLAAMKA." Waxaan kaloon Sunday, January 9, 2000 - 07:35 pm: kor ku qoray "Qoraagani waa MUNAAFAQ". Hadaba anoo cadaynaya tobanka qodob ee MUNAAFAQU isku dayay in uu ku diro DIINTA ISLAAMKA ayaan waxaan soo qaadanayaa qodobka kowaad. A- Wuxuu qoraalkan "Muslims blame EVE, like Jews/X-tians do..." iyo kuwo kala isku dayaayaa in uu kala QAYBIYO Ilaahay iyo Rasuulkiisa. Haddii aan soo xigto oo aan soo min guuriyo qoraaladiisa meeshan way buuxsamaysaa sidaa darteed akhristaha qaayaha leh waxaan u tilmaamayaa in uu ka akhristo SomaliNet's forums bogga ISLAM dhawr mawduuc oo MUNAAFAQU ku soo qoray sida kan hadda "...Muslims blame EVE, like Jews/X-tians do..." iyo ...WHO prohibits things in Islam??? QUR`AN or HADITHS??? on Sunday, November 14,1999 - 02:34 am: ...SALAT in the Qur`an!!! on Monday, November 22, 1999 - 10:53 am: ...SALAADA! on Saturday, November 27,1999-04:01 am: ...WHO prohibits things in Islam??? QUR`AN or HADITHS???(PART TWO) By Ahmad on Friday, December 10, 1999 - 02:59 pm: ************************************************ Barakada Magaca Boqorka Naxariista iyo Raxmadda Badan baan ku bilaabay. Ilaahay qalibagayaga ha rogin ka dib Markii Aad na solansiisay XAQ iyo Toobiyaha toosan. Intaan erayba eray ugu jawaabi lahaa MUNAAFAQA waxaan isku dayi in aan naftaydayda iyo idinkaba idin xusuusiyo tiirarka Islaamka. Nebigeena Suuban Sallalaahu Calayhi Wasalim wuxuu na BARAY in ISLAMKU lagu dhisay shan tiir "Buniya Islaamu calaa khamsa." 1- In aad qirto oo aad ka marag noqoto in ILAAHAY MOOYEE UUSAN JIRIN ILAAH KALE MAXAMEDNA YAHAY RASUULKIISA "Asha-haddu An Laa Ilaaha Illa Allah Wa Ash-hadu Anna Muxamedda Rasuulu Allah." 2- Salaaddood oogto (tukato) 3- Bisha Ramadaan oo aad soonto 4- Sakada oo aad bixiso 5- Xajka oo aad gudato haddii aad awooddo U fiirso halka. Nebigeenna (SCW) ayaa na BARAY in shantaa tiir ISLAMKU ku taagan yahay. Tiirka koowaad waa DHIHIS oo waa ereyo ay tahay in aad ku dhawaaqdo si dadkoo dhan u maqlaan. Afarta tiir ee kale waa FAL (ficil) iyo hawl ay tahay in aad la timaaddo. Hadana u fiirso. Nebigeennu nama dhihin shan tiir waa in aad tiraahdo "Ash-haddu An Laa Ilaaha Illa Allah" oo keli ah ee waan in aad raaciso "Wa Ash-haddu Anna Muxamadda Rasuul Allah." Nebi kale iyo Rasuul Ilaahay oo kale miyaa ereyadaa ku jira? Weligaa ma maqashay "Ash-haddu an Laa Ilaaha Illa Allah Wa Ash-haddu Anna Muusa (ama Ciisa, Ibrahim, Da'uud, Nuux ama Rasuul kale)Rasuulu Allah?" Waa Maya. Hadaba tiirka koowaad ee ISLAMKU wuxuu ka hadlayaa waa WAXDAANIYADDA ama KELINIMADA Ilaahay uu Yahay Ilaahayga Keli Ah ee Jira iyo in Maxamed yahay RASUULKA ISLAAMKA ee Ilaahay Soo Diray. Bal dhagayso Ilaahay oo leh: "Shahida Allahu Annahu Laa Ilaaha Illaa Huwa Wa Al-Maal'ikatu Wa Uuluu Al-Cilmi Qaa'ima Bilqisti. Laa Ilaaha Ilaa Huwa Al-Casiisu Al-Xakiimu" 3:18 Wuxuu Ilaahay Qirayaa In ISAGA Mooyee Uusan Jirin Ilaah Kale. Sidoo kale ayay qirayaan Malaa'igta iyo kuwa leh garaadka iyo aqoonta ee ku taagan cadaaladdu in Uu ISAGA Mooyee Uusan Jirah Ilaah Kale oo Mudnaa, Haybad, Awood iyo Xikmad leh. ....waan sii wadi doonaa Haddii Ilaahay Idmo.... Ilaahayow Noo Naxariiso
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| | Unrecorded Date Brothers. Let us hear from the AHMED guy so he will not be able to evade the questions asked by other brothers.
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| | Unrecorded Date Asalama Alaykum Muslims! I apologize all the length of the messages---I don't have much time...so I wanna get some stuff out before I get busy again! I know everyone is busy...so, I will do my best to address some isues. Due to my limited time, I can't address everyone all at once. So, I hope you mind holding your forces. And, those who personal attack and/or insult...will not hear from me, obviously. So, don't yah feel bad! :) Umar, CALM down! You’re jumping up and down with nothing. PLEASE, lets get things straight; Muhammad(the MAN...) was a bashar(human) like anybody else. Muhammad(the MESSENGER) was a RASUL(Messenger) who was taken up to highest heaven to recieve knowledge. You simply can’t comprehend that Muhammad and the Messenger were not the same; READ MY LIPS: Muhammad was a bashar(human -- this identity means like Adam and Eve...he was due to mistake; please, also don’t forget...Adam was a Messenger...who GOD himself breathed his spirit into him, but don’t forget...he became a messenger AFTER he and his wife falled as a humans...) and there is a Muhammad(the Messenger...who could not mistake nor fall -- this is because this part of Muhammad was the staff of God) But, you can’t comprehend that, can you? To you, he must have either been a DIVINE---a mistakeless being....or a CRAZY who had a multiple personality. Let me tell yah, he was NONE of the above. And as long as you want to believe one of those...you’re in deep trouble, Brother! :) ALSO, Brother, Jews discriminate against the Old Israelites Apostles, as well. They say *Moshe*(Mosses) was a teacher...to all mankind; and other prophets were his students. This is widely believed concept in Judaism. They say...Moshe was the student of God---and the teacher of everyone else. They say the covenant with Noah did not matter...and that the later one with Moshe and the Israelites in Sinnai is the one for all mankind---and it’s unbreakable. And the X-tians believe Jesus was Son of God and everyone else is son of man. We Muslims believe, OR SHOULD BELIEVE, that all Messengers are the same---they’re all the same to us...but to God, some are exalted above others---because of Books that are given, etc...and things that ONLY God knows. The verse 2.285 is solely refering to what I explained in this paragaraph. Jews and X-tians differentiate messengers; Muslims are enjoined to NOT do so. However, I see there are millions of muslims who hold Muhammad to be much *exceptional* than others. Ah, what the heck---is the world seeing *idoltry* now? nah! ABOUT the 33:37, I suggest you read verse 36, as well. This is one of those times...when MUHAMMAD(the man...the human) goes against the Muhammad(the Messenger!) You’re making the story croocked, Umar...History records this(does hadith record this???). Muhammad(pbuh) didn’t want to tell his adopted-son that God already decided that he’d divorce her...NOT because of the people’s sayings against Zainab...but because people’s sayings against the Prophet---that he did a bad thing, etc. Zaid would be perfectly happy to do what God wanted to do, as he later accepted it, perfectly. However, the Prophet tried to keep them together(from fear of the people)---when he knew the word already went against their being together. You say; “does Ahmed want us to believe like Christians and Jews who say the prophets of Allah committed sin and were not exceptional human being”? Well, DUH?...Did I tell you they’re not exceptional human beings??? I’m telling you they’re Messengers---does that tell you something? HOWEVER, don’t forget, Moses killed a life---does that make him EVIL man who committed sin like anyone else? NO! But the mistake is there---and God mentions these things to us...so that we know they’re humans...who due to mistake....and not heavenly divines who are mistakeless! Prophet Muhammad prohibited himself something that was lawful to him---don’t you think that is a mistake? Maybe you don’t! You’re mixing milk and water, Umar. Do I think Prophets commit sin? NO! Do I think Prophets make mistakes? YES! We were arguing if Muhammad is like any other messenger and human being like anyone else. You think he was exceptional---I don’t think he was any more exception than other Prophets like him. God exalts some Messengers above others---and I have no knowledge of that...i’m enjoined to not discriminate between the Messengers of God. Also, i’m enjoined to not think anyone but God is divine and mistakeless. I’m also enjoined to believe that Muhammad was the Messenger of God, and the Last Prophet! Nur, It’s a little long...and I apologize! It truly is nice to see that there are some people out there who can actually debate...instead of personal attack the other-side of Aspen. Well, it’s pleasure! :) Now, lets start with the discussion at hand; <<< HAD IT NOT BEEN FOR CHILDREN OF ISRAEL, MEAT WOULD NOT DECAY...AND HAD IT NOT BEEN FOR EVE, WOMEN WOULD NOT BETRAY(and another says) OR BE UNFAITHFUL TOWARDS THEIR HUSBANDS>>> I’m not interested the first part(that would be ANOTHER post...because everything started decaying after Adam/Eve was casted into Earth...for they ate the Tree!) however, i’m interested in the EVE and WOMEN: You said; <<<The hadith is talking about women and when (the time) did the ‘unfaithfulness or betrayal habits’(WOMEN’S HABITS) started, and how the habit continued through generations and how it had not happened had it not started at the time of Eve, the hadith is neither talking about men’s habits nor is it comparing humanity aristocratic classes. Is that too difficult to grasp!>>> It seems, that you and I are not on the same page. Just what you said is my problem: WAS Eve ever unfaithful or betrayer????? NO! Most certainly, the Qur`an NEVER says such thing. The ONLY place such thing is *recorded* is the Bible. God narrates the Stroy in the Qur`an---and does NOT blame any of them, particularly...nor does he blame Eve for any of the future women’s habits(even though these habits are USED more in the male world...than the females!) Nor does God give us any reason to believe it was Eve who *betrayed* her husband---or that she ever did. IF every wicked thing in the societies are from our parents(one or the other...) does that mean...Adam was homosexual? or that Eve was lesbian?...Did Adam and Eve become unbelievers? Did they establish abortion??? These and other more wicked things are in this world...and they have NOTHING, and I mean, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING...to do with Adam or Eve. Cane and Abeel killed each other---the very first brothers of humans...did this have anything to do with Adam/Eve??? Should they be blamed for it? Nur, I think you got the picture! An Imam whom I challenged to tell me of these hadiths...declared it must have been error. Hhhhmmm, can it truly be that? NO...since it was published and re-published...over and over again with Scholars around “who used good way of learning”...HOWEVER, the Imam also acknowledged there are OTHER hadiths which must have “been error”---hhhhmmm, then why call such books “SAHIHS”??? When they can have “errors”??? It is the same Imam...who teaches it and translates it---to others...while he conceals that these very same hadiths are errorous; what is more ironic? Most authorized scholars in Judaism and Christianity KNOW the Books have been tamperred with---yet they teach it...and call it; “The word of God” I think it’s despicable! Man repeats the very same mistakes...WHILE they know it. THE BOOK AND WISDOM: Nur, don’t yah think it’s a little wishful-thinking that “BOOK AND WISDOM” are two things??? I’m sorry, Nur...but BOOK AND WISDOM = QUR`AN!!! Also, it means a favor...or a gift---which God gives the righteous. Just knowing; “Laa Ilaha Ilallah” is a wisdom. Prophet Muhammad, ALONG with all the Prophets...were given *wisdom*. NEVER in the Qur`an, does God say; Quran and the wisdom...or Quran and the Book. He either says “Qur`an” or “book and wisdom”...or just “BOOK” or “Wisdom”. Don’t you think the words; “al-quran wal-hikmah” can go together...like “al-kitab wal-hikmah” can? This cannot be because the QUR`AN is the hikmah. So, the Book(which is the words that make the book) and THE WISDOM(the meanings of those words) make up the QUR`AN! I hope the following verses will help you see what I mean: “Alif. Lám. Rá. These are the ayats of the Book of Wisdom.” 10.1 (LOOK how...the book is of wisdom!) “We have sent it down as an Arabic Qurán, in order that ye may learn wisdom.” 12.2 (NOTICE how it doesn’t say...[arabic quran and wisdom---because *hadiths* are arabic, too!]---but it’s from the arabic “quran” that teaches wisdom!) “These are verses of the Qurán,-a book that makes (things) clear; “ 27.1 (NOW, the Qur`an is a *book*---because the words in the Qur`an make a book!) “A Book, whereof the verses are explained in detail;- a Qurán in Arabic, for people who understand;-” 41.3 (Ah, clearly states...my Lord!) ALSO, God talks of Jesus(pbuh) and says that; ["And Allah will teach him the Book and Wisdom, the Torah and the Gospel," 3.48] Naming each of the books “BOOK” and “WISDOM”...but they’re STILL the Book! Gospel is a Book like Qur`an...and so is Torah. Now, about 33.32, Nur, please, I read the verses. However, verse 33.34 refers to the Muslims of the early times. The wives of the Prophet MEMORIZED the Qur`an...along with other Muslims, is there any confusion there??? Also, the wives of the Prophet along with the Prophet and the companions are called *early Muslims*. Saying these verses were only for the wives of the Prophet would make the confusion that other women are allowed to make dazzling displays. God is saying; “you’re not the same as any other women” because they had the responsibility to be EXAMPLE for women. I didn’t explain other meaning of the verses...but the *RE-HEARSING*---which was a famous thing for the early Muslims. This also helped later when the Qur`an was put together...there wasn’t much of dispution because of this---everyone remembered the Qur`an as songs and poems. The only trick was---these songs and poems were their daily life’s instructions. It defined them, especially. The bad thing with me is that when i’m talking with others---if the thing is a known thing among people...I assume the person knows it. I can’t, surely, go a-z...everytime with everyone, Nur! Also, the “aayatil laahi wal xikmah” -- this specific *aayat* refers to *words/verses*(because that is what it is when it has to do with *reciting* or the *Qur`an* or *revealed* or etc.)...and *xikmah* refers to, as I said, before the *meaning/wisdom* of the verses of the Lord. So, in other-words, God is saying; “verses and their meanings...” this is also another part: SOME people read the Qur`an while they leave out...or thinking about other things...when they SHOULD recite with the meanings. I mean, in madrasats in Somalia...I used to just read the Qur`an---and not think about its meaning. The Qur`an should be recited while its meaning is thought about. Heck, I used to pray without really thinking about what i’m saying. This is not just me...but everybody has done this one point or another. You’re reading the Qur`an---and thinking about something else...at the same time. Do you ever see that in yourself? About 75; 16-19. ANY Muslim believes the Qur`an was NOT revealed it all at once. The Arabian-Pagans used to get MAD when the Prophets recites something...and LEAVES without really explaining something. This was NOT because he was too proud or anything---but because it wasn’t reveal all. They later used to make fun of him...saying; “hey, look...he’s stuck...and can’t add more to it---he’s waiting for the demon to reveal some more to him” and they also use to say; “why all of it is not revealed at once, if he’s truthful?” all these and more. Also, the words *fa`idaa qara`naahu* literally mean “WHEN WE RECITE IT” the word *promulgate* does not explain the word “qara`naahu” correctly. Promulgate means; *announcation*...this is not so, Brother. Recitation is simply *read*...so God is saying; “when we read it to you” in other words. Anyway, the Qur`an woudl come down in stages...during the stages was when the Prophet would get ridiculed it---and God was just making sure he was NOT going to add or explain the Qur`an. Qur`an explains itself---truly, I came to appreciate this. One verse may seem a little different...then another verse(somewhere else) will explain the thing to you, CLEARLY! Also, Nur, remember, Qur`an did not come down in order...nor was it put together into a book. A little would come down---it was that little which was Muhammad’s(pbuh) job to recite and proclaim in public, however it came to him. MANY times, the Prophet was questioned his own companions...because there would come stage of the Qur`an---and this stage would leave the companions breathless or intrigued. MANY of the verses would threaten mankind and would give alot of scary thoughts...but would have another verse after it begining with *Except those who believe and do good* that would come late(after the 1st part was revealed)...and before the 2nd part is revealed, the companions would go; “oh, apostle of God, what does that mean;” and the Prophet would have no choice but to say; “Allahu aclam”(God knows)...and then it’d be revealed that *EXCEPT those who believe and do good...” and the companions would be reliefed! :) The Qur`an, Nur, without Hadith...is EXPLAINED IN DETAIL! Ask me any verse...if I can’t find it quick---it’s only because of my weakness. One place may seem is not explained in detail...but it’s explained elsewhere WITHIN the Qur`an. Someone was asking me another day...how I know Jesus returns back to earth---God CLEARLY tells us this in the Qur`an, but the dumb deaf and the blind cannot see that...without help! This very someone participates here with us...and was expecting me to say; “hadith tells me so”---it’s true that Hadith tells me so, but the Qur`an also tells me so. All we have to do is just believe in IT...and NOT neglect it from its prize and honor! :) I need the hadiths...as History books---because they wrote history down. I need this; but not so for my salvation. God is NEVER in twos, Nur...He’s ONE...and His words are ONE! He doesn’t send two messengers with two different books...but he sends two messengers with ONE book!(Moses & Aaron, etc!) “...FABI`AYI XADIITHI BACDUHU YU`MINUUN” this is truly the arabic recitation of the last part of the verse 185, chapter seven. *Xadiith* means *message*??? give me a break! Message = RISALLAH! Do *risallah* and *xadiith* sound the same to yah? You tell me what *xadiithi* means! Most people say it’s *saying*... This doesn’t talk about this particular *hadiths* that people have---but anything BESIDE the Qur`an. This is why I keep saying...everything MUST agree with the Qur`an. Otherwise, it’s not to be followed. Many of the hadiths that agree with the Qur`an...or do not contradict the Qur`an---are followable, because this will not deviate one from the Qur`an. History(corrupted by Jews/X-tians, no doubt)...list PHARAOHS. Qur`an only lists ONE...and other Egptian Kings, Qur`an calls; “KING”. The Ancient-Egpytian History, however, agrees with the Qur`an...because it calls the kings by their names...except the one in Moses’(pbuh) time. It calls him; “Fir`oun”---which means Pharoah! Same with Qur`an. So, which history are you gonna believe? the one that agrees with the Qur`an, obviously! I hope you had a nice Eid, and I hope all Muslims get to the next one healthy and happy! Peace, Ahmad!
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| | Unrecorded Date Asalama Alaykum Muslims! Yaska, Ah, for the first time...you didn't call me "GAAL"---does this mean you met the laylatul-Qadr? Well, Blessed Be that night...I'm glad you're changing, or are you? :) Walaalkiin, Su`aal baan ku waydiiyay---kama aadan jawaabin. Ilaahay ma wuxuu yiri; "Khaatimal nabiyiin" mise "Khaatimal anbiyaa"??? OGOW, in Alle yahay mid dadka wax u bayaaniya! Tabaraaka`Allahu axsanal khaaliqiin! Qof dadka wax ku sheegaya waxaa loo bahan yahay inuu sheego waxa xaqa ah oo laga codsado. Aduunka Ummada Bini Aadamka ah waxaa qurmiyay dad xujada Alle iyo Rasuushiisa ka dhuunta! Laakiin Alle waa mid xujeeya daalimiinta maalin ay ka dhuuman karin cidna---oo nafafyaashooda ay banaanka soo dhigayaan...oo ay ku marqaati furayaan! Sidaas oo kale buu Eebahay quwadiisa u tahay mid lagama dhuumato ah! ...ka soo jawaab su`aashayda, hadii aad tahay mid xaq rabitaan ay ka daacad tahay! Bashir, Ah, what the heck! Blessed BE me! Asad, Walaal, insha`Allah waan isku dayi doonaa inaa af-soomali ku qoro--in kasta oo ay waqti igu qaadanayso xariirka sababtoo ah fasiraada aayaadka qur`anka, iwm. Taada kale, walaal, waxaa la yiri; "ishaa u macalin ah"---aniga hadii aaduunka oo dhan iga soo horjeesto...oo Alle aan dhiniciisa ku jiro...bandar baan jiifaa! :)) Peace, Ahmad!
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| | Unrecorded Date Check out the forums bellow! It carries the same farce being perpetuated here by this KUFAAR calling himself AHMAD. In that forums the perpetuator calls himself RIZZY. Please visit and see a carbon copy of AHMAD dishing the same SUBMITTER theories AHMAD is pedaling here! http://wb.islam.org:8080/~IslamiCity/
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| | Unrecorded Date Asalaamu alaykum Ahmed you addressed me as this; * IF every wicked thing in the societies are from our parents(one or the other...) does that mean...Adam was homosexual? or that Eve was lesbian?...Did Adam and Eve become unbelievers? Did they establish abortion??? These and other more wicked things are in this world...and they have NOTHING, and I mean, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING...to do with Adam or Eve. Cane and Abeel killed each other---the very first brothers of humans...did this have anything to do with Adam/Eve??? Should they be blamed for it? Nur, I think you got the picture! * Ahmed; I must say that I am amazed how dogmatic you can get, but let me ask you, who ever said that *every wicked thing in the societies are from our parents(one or the other...)? * You attempted to use philosophical argument but you made a fundamental error of philosophical reasoning, Ahmed; I give you this scrap of wisdom free of charge, the precondition for philosophical reasoning is that we must first agree on a premise and then construct logic on that agreed premise, (are you there…?) go back to my post, or actually read it here again; * The hadith is talking about women and when (the time) did the “unfaithfulness or betrayal habits” (WOMEN’S HABITS) started, and how that habit has continued through generations and how it had not happened had it not started at the time of EVE, the hadith is neither talking about men’s habits nor is it comparing humanity aristocratic classes * Am I blaming either Adam, or eve for that matter, for every wicked thing others did or do? I am merely stating the facts and emphasizing on the time of the occurrence of those facts. Unlike philosophy Ahmed, the reasoning of Qur’an and Hadith does not need for an agreeable premise to happen first, but rather takes a conventionally agreed facts and builds its reasoning on those facts. Ahmed you are absolutely right we are not on the same page of reasoning. This is what you said about the THE BOOK AND WISDOM: * So, the Book (which is the words that make the book) and THE WISDOM(the meanings of those words) make up the QUR`AN! I hope the following verses will help you see what I mean: “Alif. Lám. Rá. These are the ayats of the Book of Wisdom.” 10.1 (LOOK how...the book is of wisdom!) * I have been trying helplessly to agree with you on one single thing, so I will agree with you partially on this one when you say *So, the Book (which is the words that make the book) and THE WISDOM(the meanings of those words) make up the QUR`AN! Words of the Qur’an and the meaning of those words indeed make up not only the Qur’an but the whole DIIN, the whole REVELATION, the whole WAHY, but Ahmed the question which throws itself here is who explained the Qur’an for us? I say and all Muslims say Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) the greatest mufasir of Qur’an. With due respect Ahmed in my list of classifying mufasirs you (Ahmed) do not score very much, I say this for a good reason when you clearly showed how you do not even know the basics of Arabic language. I see you can not differentiate between the two Arabic words (WADKURNA & WARDKURUU) in the Arabic recitations of the verse 33.32 Allah said (WADKURNA) when talking to the wives of the prophet, every one who read elementary Arabic would know that (WADKURNA) is used for MU’ANATH (feminine). Allah did not say (WADKURUU) in order to justify that Allah is talking to early Muslims (men & women together, that would prompt the use of the word WADKURUU). Ahmed your subsequent unlearned explanations based on false logic and founded on faulty philosophical reasoning and coupled with emotional fiddling is as worthless as any rubbish can get. And regarding the verse 10.1 can you note the difference in English between (the book of wisdom) & (book and wisdom)? Can you Ahmed? Because if you could you would know that one phrase is talking about a single object while the other is talking about two objects. In the Arabic recitation of the verse (wamaa anzala calaykum mina al kitaabi wal xikmah) Al kitab w AL-hikmah, in Arabic (‘AL’ is known as ‘AL’ li-tacriif) equivalent to use of (the) the known object. and let us do some NAXWE analysis, shall we? (minal kitaabi wal hikmah (wa minal hikmah)) FROM THE BOOK AND FROM THE HIKMAH, this gives the clear discrimination of the two sources (kitaab AND hikmah) BOOK AND WISDOM. And look at the other things you say: * “...FABI`AYI XADIITHI BACDUHU YU`MINUUN” this is truly the arabic recitation of the last part of the verse 185, chapter seven. *Xadiith* means *message*??? give me a break! Message = RISALLAH! Do *risallah* and *xadiith* sound the same to yah? You tell me what *xadiithi* means! Most people say it’s *saying*... * Well let me write the verse in its original Arabic recitation, 7.185 “awalam yanduruu fii malakuutisamaawaati wal ardh wamaa khalaqallaahu min shay’in wa an casaa an yakuuna qad iqtaraba ajalahum fabi`ayi xadiithin bacdahu yu`minuun” I would like to ask every body who know any Arabic, does HADITH in this context mean RISALLAH? Regards Salaamu Alaykum.
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| | Unrecorded Date In order to "get things straight", Ahmed says that Muhammad(the MAN...) was a bashar(human) like anybody else. Muhammad(the MAN...) was a bashar(human) like anybody else" Ahmed is implying as though I said Muhammad was not human(basher)! Now, the question is: was Muhammad(the basher) a SINNER "like anybody else", like Ahmed and Umar---OR-- Muhammad was protected and could not SIN, unlike Ahmed and Umar? Ahmed said I "simply can't comprehend that Muhammad and the Messenger were not the same" Now, is Ahmed saying with his own "LIPS" that Muhammad(the basher or the messenger) had TWO HEARTS which Allah "opened" to clean?!!! "Have we not opened for you(O Prophet) thy breast" Suratul-Inshirah, The Opening Forth Ayah 1 Ahmed said that "Adam was a Messenger" when he SINNED in HEAVEN. Now ---does Ahmed know that Adam was a Prophet, not a messenger? Adam was not a messenger nor a prophet when he and Xawa were in heaven---before he and xawa was thrown out of Heaven, was he? Now Ahmed is admitting that "a Muhammad(the Messenger...who could not mistake nor fall -- this is because this part of Muhammad was the staff of God)" Ahmed says to me that Muhammad "To me must have either been a DIVINE---a mistakeless being....or a CRAZY who had a multiple personality." What Ahmed does not understand is that Muhammad was eligible for a DIVINE privilege of his position. We call him the HOLY prophet/Messenger. He was not like other ordinary people. His mission and the Book he preached were both DIVINE. He could see what no ordinary people could see, by the Will of Allah. Allah said about Muhammad(the basher or the messenger) this: "...in order that We might show him(Muhammad--the basher or the messenger) of Our Ayat(proofs, evidences, sings, etc). Now, is Ahmed saying Muhammad(the basher) didn't see the Ayat of Allah and did not have eligible for this Divine privilege of going to the blessed Night Journey when he was taken to the heavens or is Ahmed saying that only Muhammad(the messenger) went up there while his body stayed on earth? I mean did the prophet have two personalities? We know htat Muhammad(the messenger or the basher) made mistakes, but these are not SINS or dis-obeiedence against Allah as Ahmed is trying to sell us. Ahmed said the prophet did "make mistakes and SIN", but Ahmed does not know that mistakes are not SIN. If I or Ahmed make mistake unknowinly, Allah will not write it as a SIN, so how come prophet's mistake become a SIN, according to Ahmed? Ahmed is saying that the prophet to have not made SIN means he had to be CRAZY---"a CRAZY who had a multiple personality." Ahmed wrote after doing his usual smoke screen antics this: "I see there are millions of Muslims who hold Muhammad to be much *exceptional* than others." Now, if Ahmed and the submitters think that they are like prophet Muhammad, then we have to take their own words and believe them, right? :-) OR------should we believe Ahmed's own logical explanation of this verse(33:37) where he and submitters say that our prophet committed SIN and disobedience against Allah's order when Allah Himself is telling the human being that "Assuredly there has been an excellent pattern, for you in him" I mean would Allah sent a messenger who commits SIN and disobedience against Allah and at the same time orders human beings to follow this same messenger whom Allah also said has an excellent pattern?!!! Ahmed does not understand that Allah wants us to follow the examples of a man(a basher) whom in himself were all types of good virtues---that we should follow the prophet's personality, a living personality, rather than become like him--messengers of Allah. I mean Muhammad(the basher) is our example---his daily behavior has instituted a course which all Muslims should observe even now that he is no longer with us. If this man(the basher), as the submitters and Ahmed are saying, was a "SINNER like anyone else"(Nacuudu-Bilaah), how could he be "an excellent pattern" for us? But we Muslims, unlike the submitters and Ahmed, know Allah would not have told us to follow a SINNER like us, but a man(basher) who was SINLESS and a man who never disobeyed His Lord. This man, Muhammad(pbuh) and his wonderful life, is a living illustration and explanation of the Quran and we can do no greater justice to the HOLY Quran than by following this HOLY man who was the mouthpiece of it's revelation. Now, Ahmed and submitters can say that our prophet Muhammad was not HOLY OR DIVINE, but Allah made Muhammad just that. We know that the the submitters and Ahmed expect us to not imitate and follow the Sunna of Muhammad.----why----because they say he was a SINNER(Nacuudu-Bilaah).----this is the same man whom Allah said that "....may bring you forth from darkness into the light.." How can one may bring us from darkness into the light if he is a SINNER himself? I mean if Allah us told to follow this man and to follow this man means Allah will love us(3:30) which also means if we follow Muhammad(the basher), Allah will forgive our SINS....So can we follow another SINNER in order that our SINS to be forgiven?!!! The point is that the submitters and Ahmed say that if the Muslims follow and perfect their lives on the model of Muhammad, Muslims are in idolatry---why--because unlike Muslims, submitters and Ahmed, do not believe that Muhammad was the perfect man and that his life is to serve as a model in every little detail for all true Muslims. The submitters and Ahmed repeatedly charge Muhammad as a SINNER like the Jews and the Christians of today and yesterday--that is why the submitters and Ahmed say that Muhammad was a SINNER. However, Allah is not telling us to follow a SINNER in Muhammad but Muhammad is an EXALTED STANDARD OF CHARACTER"--68:4--NOT a SINNER. Muhammad was/is a "MERCY TO THE WORLDS"--Suratul-Anbiya 107. The prophet was a SINNLESS and he was not sent, "except as a mercy to the worlds". His life serves as a universal guide in every little detail of life. Muhammad(the basher) could not sin, because he was not allowed to be tempted to sin. He was protected from sinning---Suratul-Bani Israel 73-77---his heart was cleaned "Have we not opened for you(O prophet) thy breast" Suratul-Inshirah, The Opening Forth Ayah 1. Allah protected Muhammad from sinning. For example, when Muhammad was about to make a simple mistake, not a SIN, Allah, automatically, corrected His messenger at once from sinning(80:1-3) Allah Subxaana Wa Tacaaalaa is swearing that He never was displeased with Muhammad---"By the morning brightness, by the night, when it darkness, Thy Lord has not forsaken thee(O Muhammad), nor is He DISPLEASED(with thee Muhammad, EVER in the world).........And as to the FAVOURS of thy Lord, discourse thou thereof(the character of Muhammad was even in his youth exemplary and EXCEPTIONAL in the most tempting environment of Makkah. He never even SINNED at that time. Allah was always protecting His future messenger. Unlike the submitters and Ahmed's "history" along with the Jews and Christians History, we Muslims have Mohammed's history along with Quranic evidence(Suratul-Inshirah Ayah 1 and Suratul-Dhuha) where Allah is swearing and saying that He was not DISPLEASED with Muhammad, a prophet who never lied, never disobeyed or SINNED. Was Muhammad(the basher) like Ahmed and Umar or was he an exceptional human being?!!!!Or did Muhammad have double lives? Allah revealed a verse and said to His Muhammad "We know well that surely what they say(by way of unbelief and blasphemy) grieves thee, but it is not thee they belie(the allusion was to a saying of Abu Jahl---who said Muhammad as a person is certainly truthful; he has never uttered a falsehood. We do not impugn his honesty. What we stoutly deny is the message he claims to have received from High above); it is the sings of Allah the ungodly gainsay(so do not grieve overmuch, O prophet! it is We who shall deal our affairs with them)--Suratul-Anam 33. Now, we know it is clear that Muhammad(without dividing him) was a sinless, but what the submitters and Ahmed say about the prophet is not the issue; the issue is the Sunna of Muhammad that the Muslims follow which the submitters and Ahmed deny---So this opposition by the submitters and Ahmed is nothing novel. Ahmed cited this verse that will show that the prophet was NOT an exceptional or a SINNER like us "4:163 We have sent thee inspiration, as We sent it to Noah and the Messengers after him: we sent inspiration to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob and the Tribes, to Jesus, Job, Jonah, Aaron, and solomon, and to David We gave the Psalms." Then, I asked him and said "I don't understand!---does Ahmed want us to believe like the Christians and the Jews who say the prophets of Allah committed SIN and where NOT exceptional human being?: Ahmed responded this way: "Well, DUH?...Did I tell you they're not exceptional human beings??? I'm telling you they're Messengers--does that tell you something?" Well, yes--it tells me that they are messengers and prophets of Allah like Muhammad and they are NOT like you and me, so they are EXCEPTIONAL HUMAN BEINGS whom Allah have chosen. :-) They did not DISOBEY Allah like we do and SIN. :-) Ahmed said "HOWEVER, don't forget, Moses killed a life---does that make him EVIL man who committed sin like anyone else?" Well, if you and I kill someone mistakenly it is not considered disobedience or sin against Allah. "Moses said: this is the work of Satan(accidentally and without intending his death--this was before Moses was a prophet and a messenger-----Allah protected after that and forgave him---whereas Muhammad never killed anybody wrongfully or by mistake, never sinned, never disobeyed---Allah always AIDED and BLESSED His prophet Muhammad. Still Moses and Muhammad were EXCEPTIONAL AND SINLESS human being whom Allah favored unlike you and me. We will never be like them, even before when they were not the chosen men of Allah. Ahmed said "Do I think Prophets commit sin? NO! But Ahmed now is contradicting himself.!!! In Ahmed's earlier post, he said prophet Muhammad DID make "SIN(66.1)"!!! Ahmed said "We were arguing if Muhammad is like any other messenger and human being like anyone else. You think he was exceptional---I don't think he was any more exception than other Prophets like him" Well, Ahmed is confused me with someone else who is debating with him in the issue of comparison of prophet's and messengers. My issue with him is that prophet Muhammad is more than an exceptional human being---more than Ahmed and Umar--Ahmed and Umar sin; the prophet Muhammad didn't sin and didn't disobey Allah like we do :-) Ahmed concluded and said this: "I'm also enjoined to believe that Muhammad was the Messenger of God, and the Last Prophet!" Unlike Ahmed and submitters, I believe that Muhammad was both the last Messenger of Allah and the last Prophet of Allah.
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| | Unrecorded Date Asalaamu 'aleukum Yaa ikhwati filcaqiidda AHMAD-GAAL, wrote: I'm glad you're changing, or are you? :) Hell no, Just to see if this could changes you. I wrote(ahmad-gaal) before i posted, then erased after while,.. But was useless to even try that. As like Umar said you have trouble problem with understanding of classical arabic terms and religion as whole. every subject demands certain degree of knowledgle as prerequist in order to understand firmly and to explore its secret. One should have deep knowledge of different branch of Islam religion such as FIQH,science of Hadiths, Science of Qur'an, Principle of Fiqh, Islamic History, Islamic Philosiphy and Logic, Islamic literature,Islamic Arts such as poetry, before everything he should have firm knowledge of classical arabic language.. Before he even thing he could interprate the Qur'an. If you heard in qur'an saying there are "SHamri" Wine in Janna ... you think it is the one we know now in this world??? You think you know the differnce between messenger and prophet, while you can't even distinguish between Hadith and Rissalah? Have you ever heard "Icjaasul Qur'an"?
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| | Unrecorded Date Nabad iyo Naxariis Ilaahay Korkiina Ha Ahaato Qoraaga Mawduucani wuxuu isku dayayaa in uu kala qaybiyo Ilaahay iyo Rasuulkiisa isagoo sheeganaya in uu Muslim yahay. Hadaba jawaabta ku habboon ee la siin karo MUNAAFAQAN waa in aan marka hore sugno oo aan is xusuusino baaxadda iyo qotada waxa uu la soo shir tagar. Ilaahay Baa Mahad leh oo dad faro badan baa uga jawaabay caqli xumadiisa. Diinta Islaamku waa Diinta Ilaahay "Inna Diina Cinda Allah Al-Islaam" (3:19) oo Diinta Ilaahay Agtiisa waa ISLAAM. Qofkii doona Diin aan ahayn ISLAMna laga aqbali mayo Aakhira waa mid hoogay oo khasaaray "Wa Man Yabghii Gheera ISLAMI Diinan Falan Yuqbal Minhu Wa Huwa Fil Al-Akhirati Minal Akhsariin" (3:85) Nebigeena Suuban Sallalaahu Calayhi WaSallim (SCW) wuxuu na baray in Diinta Islaamka lagu dhisay shan tiir. Tiirka kowaadna yahay in aad QIRTO oo aad MARAG ka noqoto adoo ku dhawaaqaya oo maqashiinaya dadkoo dhan in Ilaahay Mooyee Uusan Jirin Ilaah Kale Maxamedna Yahay Rasuulkii Ilaahay. Tiirka koowaad ee Islaamku waa Qirista Waxdaaniyadda ama Kelinimada Ilaahay in Maxamed yahay Rasuulkii Ilaahay. Bal marka u fiirso "Ash-haddu An Laa Ilaaha Illa Allah, Wa Ash-haddu Anna Muxameda Rasuulu Allah" waa hal tiir oo keli ah. Lagaama yeelayo in aad tiraahdo waan kala qaybin oo waxaan dhihi "Ash-haddu An Laa Ilaaha Illa Laah" oo keli ah. Maya. Waa in aad SUGTO oo aad QIRTO Waxdaaniyadda Ilaahay iyo in Maxamed Yahay Rasuul Alle. "Shahida Allahu Annahu Laa Ilaaha Illaa Huwa Wa Al-Maal'ikatu Wa Uuluu Al-Cilmi Qaa'ima Bilqisti. Laa Ilaaha Ilaa Huwa Al-Casiisu Al-Xakiimu" (3:18) Wuxuu Ilaahay Qirayaa In ISAGA Mooyee Uusan Jirin Ilaah Kale. Sidoo kale ayay qirayaan Malaa'igta iyo kuwa leh garaadka iyo aqoonta ee ku taagan cadaaladdu in Uu ISAGA Mooyee Uusan Jirah Ilaah Kale oo Mudnaa, Haybad, Awood iyo Xikmad leh. Ilaahay Muxuu Yahay? Bal dhagayso Siduu Ilaahay Kuugu Jawaabayo: "Qul Hu Allah Axad. Allahu Samad. Lam Yalid Wa Lam Yuulad Wa Lam Yakun Lahu Kufa'an Axad" Dheh Nebi Maxamedaw (SCW) Isagu Waa Allah Waa Keli (Isaga Mooyee Ilaahay Kale Ma Jiro). Waa Alle Deeqsi Ah. Ma Dhalin (oo ubad ma leh) Lamana Dhalin (oo waalid ma leh). Mana Jiro Wax Sidiisoo Kale Ah (dhinac walba). Haayoo Waa Ilaah Keli ah "Wa Ash-haddu Anna Muxamadda Rasuul Allah." Miyaadan maqal Ilaahay oo Leh "Muxamadda Rasuulu Allah" (48:19) Maxamed Waa Rasuulkii Ilaahay. "Idaa Jaa'aka Almunaafiquun qaaluu nash-hadu Anaka Larasuulu Allah, Wa Allahu Yaclamu Inaka Larasuulahu, Wa Allahu Yash-haddu Inna Almunaafiqiinu La Kaadibuun." (63:1) Markay Munaafiqiintu kuu yimaadaan waxay ku dhihi "waxaan QIRAYNAA in aad Rasuulkii Ilaahay. Ilaahayna Wuu Og Yahay in aad tahay Rasuulkiisii. Ilaahayna Wuxuu Marag Ka Yahay in Munaafiqiintu Beenloowayaal yihiin. Bal u fiirso oo ka baaraan deg Hadalka Ilaahay: Munaafiqiintu waxay QIRAYAAN in aad tahay Rasuulkii Ilaahay.. Ilaahayna Wuu Og yahay in aad tahay Rasuulkiisii.. Ilaahayna Wuu Marag Ka Yahay in Munaafiqiintu Been Sheegayaan.. Maxay been ku sheegeen... wax aan qalbigoodu ku jirin bay afka uga dhawaaqeen. Meel kale ayaan MUNAAFIQIINTA uga hadli doonaa Haddii Ilaahay Idmo. Waxaase nagu filan in Ilaahay Marag Ka Yahay in Muxamed yahay RASUULKII Ilaahay. Oo Maxamed waa ayo..yuu yahay? Dhagayso oo ku qanac Jawaabta Ilaahay: "Maa Kaana Muxamedu Abaa Axadin Min Rijaalikum, Wa Laakin Rasuulu Allah Wa KHAATIMU Nebiyiina, Wa Kaana Allahu Bi Kulli Shay'in Caliima" (33:40) Uma ahayn Muxamed Aabe Raggiina midkooda, Waxaase weeye RASUULKA Ilaahay iyo GUNAANADKII (kii ugu dambeeyay) Nebiyada. Ilaahay Wuxuu Ahaa Mid Ka Warhaya Wax Walba. Fiiro Gaar ah: Qoraagu MUNAAFAQ AHI wuxuu isku dayayaa in uu labo macno u kala yeelo NEBIYIINA iyo ANBIYAA. Wuxuu rabaa in uu ku doodo Aayadu Waxay leedahay "KHAATIMU NEBIYIINA" ee ma aha "KHAATIMAL ANBIYAA" sidaa darteedna Nebi Maxamed (SCW) ma aha 'KHAATIMAL ANBIYAA' Gablantay Hooyadaa! Bal marka hore muu barto macnaha Nebi, Nebiyiin iyo Anbiyaa. Nebi waa qof Ilaahay Karaamo siiyay oo loo WAXYIYAY. Waxyina Ilaahay Buu Ka Yimaadaa. Nebiyiin waa Wadarta NEBI ama labo Nebi iyo ka badan. Anbiyaa Waa wadarta Nebi hase yeeshee waxaa ku jira RUSUL. Nebiga kasta oo WAXYI u yimaado ma aha RASUUL Ilaahay ka sida FARIIN. Hase yeeshee RASUUL kasta waa NEBI. Hadaba ANBIYAA waa Nebiyo loo WAXYOODAY iyo RASUUL Risaalo sida. Qaybtan waxaan ku soo gunaanadayaa "FACLAM ANAHU LAA ILAAHA ILLA ALLAH"(47:19) "MUXAMEDA RASUULU ALLAH"(48:19) Ogoow in Ilaahay Mooyee Uusan Jirin Ilaah Kale, Maxamedna Yahay Rasuulkiisa. Halkeen ka soo xigtay waxa aan qoray? Maxaase Daliil ii ah in sida aan qoray ay dhab tahay? QUR'AANKA Waxaan ku saleeyay in ay DHAB tahay 'ASH-HADDU AN LAA ILAAHA ILLA ALLAH, WA ASH-HADDU ANNA MUXAMEDA RASUUL ALLAH' Aayadaha kor ku xusan ee QUR'AANKA. Qur'aanku Muxuu yahay? Jawaabteeda ayaa dhawaan soo qori doona Haddii Ilaahay Idmo. Ilaahayow Noo Naxariiso
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| | Unrecorded Date Dhamaan walaalaha: Omar, Nur, Bashir Abdi, Yaska, Walaalkiin, Mu'min & dhamaan walaalaha sida wacan uga qeyb qaatay doodan ugana qayb qaadan doona insha'Allaah, waxaan Alle idiinka baryayaa kheyr & Ajar & Dambi-dhaaf Allaah agtissa. Dadaalkiina aad ku gargaareysaan diinta Alle (swt)halkaa kasii wada. Insha'allaah si xiiso leh ayaan ula socdaa, ulana socon doonaa. May Allaah bless you all. TO AHMAD (kaligii-muslim)! Ma waantoowdid miyaa? Waxaagu dood maahin.
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| | Unrecorded Date Ansaari, dooda Ahmed and loojigiisa markii aan fahmay, waxaan arkey this: One time, he says Prophet Muhammad did COMMIT SIN and in another time, he denies that Prophet Muhammad committed SIN---Ahmed said: "Do I think Prophets commit sin? NO! Now, Ahmed loojigiisa waa sidaan: Muhammad, the man(basher) committed SIN, but Muhammad, the messenger did not commit SIN. So, loojigiisa waa sidan: For example. If a married man who is a president of a country(a man like Clinton) had illegal sex with an interim woman working at his office, according to Ahmed's logic thinking, this married man is the one committed the illegal sex with THAT WOMAN, but the president part of this man didn't COMMIT the SIN. Go figure! :-)
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| | Unrecorded Date Omar! That is typical of Ahmad, I know this guy. Bal akhri oo eeg mowduucyadan soo socda oo dhan sida: - Usama bin Laden, - Is Usama welcome in somalia, - Salat in the Qur'an, - Who prohipit things....., - Salaada, - About interest in Islam - & Jihad" meelahaas oo dhan marka aad aqrisid waxaad arkeysaa isagii oo kala hadhadlaya. Waxaaba ku filan oo kaliya inuu arko qoraaladiisa iyo sideey isku burinayaan.
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| | Unrecorded Date Better yet, AHMED SUBMITTER(As RIZZY) said in another forums about the intercession(shafaacada) this; "The concept of intercession is utterly illogical. Those who believe in Muhammad's intercession, for example, claim that he will ask God to forgive them and admit them into Paradise. They imagine Muhammad on the Day of Judgment choosing the candidates for his intercession. If you ask those who believe in intercession: "How will Muhammad recognize those who deserve his intercession?" they tell you, "God will tell him!" According to this concept, a person will go to Muhammad and request his intercession. Muhammad will then ask God whether this person deserves his intercession or not. God will inform Muhammad that the person deserves to go to Paradise. Muhammad will then turn around and tell God that the person deserves to go to Paradise! The blasphemy is obvious; those who believe in intercession make God a secretary of their idol Muhammad. God be glorified". The whole religion is a joke to this AHMED SUBMITTER. There is nothing he agrees on principle unless it suits his submitter beliefs. -------------------------------------------------- PERAZISHOOTER: IN responce to RIZZY(AHMED SUBMITTER). THE REALITY OF INTERCESSION: [Yunus 10:3] Lo! your Lord is Allah Who created the heavens and the earth in six Days, then He established Himself upon the Throne, directing all things. There is no intercessor (with Him) SAVE AFTER HIS PERMISSION. That is Allah, your Lord, so worship Him. Oh, will ye not remind ? [ar-Rum 30:13] There will be none to intercede for them OF THOSE WHOM THEY MADE EQUAL WITH ALLAH. And they will reject their partners (whom they ascribed unto Him). [an-Najm 53:26] And how many angels are in the heavens whose intercession availeth naught SAVE after Allah giveth leave to whom He chooseth and accepteth. Thus we see from the above verses, according to the Quran, Allah may ALLOW others to intercede. However, they will all be: 1. Not considered equal to Allah 2. Interceding by the permission of Allah 3. If and when Allah desires it. In other words servants of Allah, such as Angels and Prophets may be those who will be asked to intercede. So intercession is not a myth. Rizzy you need to get a life. Muslims are stauch monotheists. You are an extremist. Most Muslims understand the difference between loving a prophet and worshipping one. When I step on someone's foot and say I am sorry, or please forgive me, it does not mean that the person on whose foot I stepped on has the authority to forgive my Sins and send me to heaven on Judgement Day. It shows that I care and empathize with that person's pain that I have caused him/ her directly. I may also admire the courage and actions of another human being, because I may lack the same fortitude. This humility is hardly the definition of shirk. Mohammad suffered in his life to make sure we get the Quran, at the hands of the pagan Arabs. I am grateful to him for this. By your logic, we should not love, admire, idealize any other human being nor should we appologize to one another, because that would amount to worship. Which is a ridiculous point of view. Any person that does not empathize with the feelings, pain and emotions of others is arrogant. We know from the Quran, exactly where arrogant people are going. BTW, I have never heard of a single muslim ever suggest ASKING Mohammad to forgive their Sins. I have heard of some muslims ask Allah to forgive them with the intercession of Mohammad. This would mean that they are asking Allah not Mohammad. This would imply that the listener of the prayer according to these people is also Allah. The forgiving is being asked of ONLY Allah alone. The only request they have [in their prayer] is the intercession of Mohammad. This as far as I can see is usually a reference to the tradition that they follow ie, Mohammad's through the Quran. It is a way of confirming to Allah that He sent us the rightly guided prophet and gave us the Scripture Quran.
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| | Unrecorded Date Asalama Alaykum Muslims! Nur, Umar, and others who were in the discussion with me, I'll be back on friday night/saturday, God willing, with more time...and will be able to respond to your posts. Your posts have alot of stuff that itself opens doors to other discussions...and they cannot all be summoned in my little available time before the times I mentioned above. So, insha Allah, we'll talk more then. Yaska, Ah, Brother---I always hope the best from others...so, suit yourself...untill God opens some door for you. `Till then, have it your way! :) Prosperity, peace, and good health to all Muslims! -Ahmad!
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| | Unrecorded Date Nabad iyo Naxariis Ilaahay Korkiina Ha Ahaato Qoraaga Munaafaqa ah ee furay mawduucan wuxuu isku dayayaa in uu kala fogeeyo Ilaahay iyo Rasuulkiisa isagoo ku andacoonaya wixii Ilaahay keenay baan qaadanayaa wixii Rasuulkiisu la yimidna waxba kama jiraan. Layaab ma leh in isaga iyo habartii Xadiyo ahayd ee deganayd Ansalooti ay isku si wax u arkaan. Xadiyo waxay ahayd fooxiso markii habruhu u yimaadaan intay foox dabka ku rido tiraahda "heblaayo qoomam baa ku jira" oo intay digaag (dooro)qasho oo dhiigga cabto tiraahda "heblaayo waa laga dhawaaqay" ama "duul baa ka dul hadlay!" Cajiib! Hadda Munaafaqani wuxuu noo sheegayaa in Nebigeena Suuban Sallalaahu Calayhi WaSalim ay duulal ku jireen. Karood Cilan Ku Dil! Gacantu ku go'day bal wuxuu qoray arka! Nebigu (SCW) wuxuu ahaa buu yiri "laba qof". Markuu caadi yahay oo dadka kale la mid yahay waa beenlow, waa curiye mu'alaf ah, wax aan Ilaahay Farin buu ku dhaqmaa! MARKASE Xadiyo fooxa ugu riddo DUULAL AYAA KA DHAWAAQA oo WAX QUR'AAN LA YIRAAHDUU KU HADAAQAA. Duulalkaasi been ma sheegaan oo waxay ku dhawaaqaana waa in loo qaato sidii dooradii Xadiyo qashay Munaafaqanina dhiigeeda cabo! Waxaan isku dayay in aan naftayda iyo akhristaha qoraalkan xusuusiyo in DIINTA ISLAAMKU tahay DIINTA ILAAHAY. Ogowna in aan qofna laga aqbalayn DIIN aan ahayn ISLAAM. Waxaan kaloon ina xusuusiyay in Nebigeena Suuban (SCW) uu na baray in ISLAAMKA lagu dhisay shan tiir. Tiirka koowaadna yahay ASHAHAADA oo ah in aad QIRTO in Ilaahay Mooyee Uusan Jirin Ilaah Kale Muxamedna yahay Rasuulka Ilaahay. Xusuusintaas waxay ku salaysnayd Aayado Qur'aan ah oo aan soo xigtay. Hadda su'aasha taagan waxay ahayd waa maxay QUR'AAN? Jawaabtu ma aha sida uu rabo Munaafaqa furay mawduucan in uu naga gado oo ah in QUR'AANKU yahay hadal duulal ka dul dhawaaqay Nebi Muxamed (SCW). Ee jawaabta waa sida uu Suubanow Rasuulkii Ilaahay Maxamed Bin Cabdullahi Sallalaahu Calayhi WaSalam kula dardaarmay intii Alle iyo Rasuulkiisa Rumaysay oo ah "Waxaan Idiinka TAGAY LABO SHAY oo haddii aad QABSATAAN (qaadataan oo aad ku dhaqantaan) aydan gadaashay LUMAYN. Nebi Allow maxay yihiin LABADA SHAY? 'KITAABU ALLAH WA SUNNATII' waa Kitaabka Ilaahay iyo SUNADAYDA, ayuu yiri Suubanow Rasuulku (SCW). Oo muxuu yahay 'KITAABU ALLAH?' Bal dhagayso Jawaabta uu na siinaya Ilaahay Boqorka Caalimiintaa: "Daalika Alkitaabu Laa Rayba Fiihi"(2:2) Kaas (Qur'aanku) waa Kitaab uusan SHAKI ama/iyo TUHUN Ku Jirin. Qaar baa waxay dhihi 'DAALIKA ALKITAAB' waxaa loola jeedaa Tawraah iyo Injiil. In aysan saa ahayn dhagayso Ilaahay Hadalkiisa: "Kitaabun Fusilat Aayaatuhu Qur'aanan Carabiyan Li Qoomin Yaclamuun"(41:3) Waa Kitaab Qur'aan Af Carabi ah oo Aayadihiisa Loo Fasiray oo Loo Sharxay ciddii aqoon leh. Waa Kitaab laga Xikmadeeyay Aayadihiisa oo Hadan laga Furfuray ama laga Sharxay Dhinaca Eebe Agtiisa ay Tahay Xikmad iyo Khibrad "Kitaabun Uxkimat Aayaatuhu Thumma Fusilat Min Ladun Xakiimin Khabiir"(11:1. Wa Aayado Kitaab Xigmadi Ku Dheehan Tahay "Tilka Aayaatu Al-Kitaabi Al-Xakiim"(10:1) Waana Aayado Kitaab Qur'aan ah oo si CAD u Muuqda "Tilka Aayaatu Al-Kittabi AL-Mubiin"(12:1) "Tilka Aayaatu Al-Kittabi Wa Qur'aani Mubiin"(15:1) "Tilka Aayaatu Al-Qur'aani Wa Kitaabi Mubiinin"(27:1) Aayadahaas dhexdooda kuma jiraan, hortooda ama gadaashoodana kama imaanayaan BEEN, MALO AWAAL, KUTIRI KU TEEN iyo BAADIL Waxaana laga Soo Dejiyay Eebe Xakiim ah oo Mahad Mudan Agtiisa: "Laa Yatiihi Al-Baadilu Min Beena Yadayhi Wa Laa Min Khalfihi Tanziilun Min Xakiimin Xamiid"(41:42) Hadaba su'aashu waxaa weeye-- haddii Sidaa Qur'aanku yahay oo sida Nebigeena Suuban (SCW) inagula dardaarmay yahay mid haddii aan isaga iyo SUNADA Rasuulka (SCW) qabsanoon ku dhaqano aynaan habaabayn--sidee buu Qur'aanku nagu soo gaaray? Yaase na soo gaarsiiyay? Aayad ugu dambaysay ee kor ku qoran ayaa noo sheegaysa "Tanziilun Min Xakiimin Xamiid" in Qur'aanka laga soo dejiyay Alle Xakiim ah oo Mahad Mudan Agtiisa. "Tanziilu Al-Kitaab Mina Allahi Al-Casiisi Al-Xakiim"(45:2) Halkaa ayaan ka sii wadi doonaa Haddii Ilaahay Idmo Ilaahayow Noo Naxariiso
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| | Unrecorded Date Elsewhere in the same forums RIZZY was ASKED this: WHAT IS THIS SECRET THAT YOU ARE DISCOVERING NOW LIKE A LATTER-DAY CHRISTOPHER COLUMBUS, THAT WAS HIDDEN FROM MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF MUSLIMS FOR 1400 YEARS??????????
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| | Unrecorded Date I am confussed and losted with this debate. I need your help to enlighten myself. What is the meaning of these verses from the Holy Kuran. It was never Allah's (part) that He should send a folk astray after He had guided them until He had made clear unto them what they should avoid. Lo! Allah is Aware of all things. Lo! Allah! Unto Him belongeth the Sovereignty of the heavens and the earth. He quickeneth and He giveth death. And ye have, instead of Allah, no protecting friend nor helper. Allah hath turned in mercy to the Prophet, and to the Muhajirin and the Ansar who followed him in the hour of hardship. After the hearts of a party of them had almost swerved aside, then turned He unto them in mercy. Lo! He is Full of Pity, Merciful for them. Please respond in English.
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| | Unrecorded Date Nihal, where is that verse you cited located? Ahmed said to me when he was talking about our prophet Muhammad this: "To you, he must have either been a DIVINE---a mistakeless being....or a CRAZY who had a multiple personality. Let me tell yah, he was NONE of the above. And as long as you want to believe one of those...you’re in deep trouble, Brother! :) " Ahmed says that he follows the Quran, but I don't think he reads it----maybe he just takes what the submitters say and then he repeats these things on here without verifying them. Ahmed is saying our messenger Muhammad could not be considered a "DIVINE" messenger---he says t me "To you, he must have either been a DIVINE". Ahmed thinks that if I believe that our messenger to have been NOT DIVINE, then the messenger must be "a CRAZY who had a multiple personality". Ahmed BELIEVES that our messenger\prophet Muhammad was not a "DIVINE"---however, when we read the Quran, Allah IS contradicting what the submitters told Ahmed---about messengers---NOT being DIVINE. (AM LAM YAC`RI-FU RASUU-LAHUM-LAH *MUNKIRUUN*)---which roughly means--- "Or, is it that they did not recognize their *DIVINE* messengers, so they became his DENIERS" These people(the submitters and Ahmed) always talk about the Quran, but they do not know that they are the ones reciting their own idle stories--their own HADEETH-- while at the same time mocking in a disrespectful manner the Muslim's following the SUNNA of the Messenger----this gives an inkling into the submitters and Ahmed's mental attitude----they discredit the prophet's DIVINE position and their favorite pastime---like the Arab pagans, the Christians and the Jews--is to refuse to give attention to the Quran. Allah is questioning them and reasoning with them this way: "Did they never ponder over the Words(i.e., is it that their inattention is the real cause of their rejection of the Quran)? Or did there come to them what had not come to their fore-fathers" "Or, is it that they did not recognize their *DIVINE* messengers, so they BECAME HIS DENIERS" "Or, do they say: in him is MADNESS--(CRAZY LIKE AHMED IS SAYING--is it because the pagans, the Jews, the submitters, ahmed, Christians, doubt the prophet's SANITY AND HIS *DIVINE* nature?)--Aye! he(Muhammad) brought them the TRUTH(QURAN AND WISDOM, THE SUNNA), yet most of them are averse to the TRUTH(THE QURAN AND SUNNA--And that is the only real reason of their rejection of Islam and prophet's DIVINE nature)---Suratul-Muminuun 68-70. Ahmed said in his last post that he will talk about other topics-----I wonder if he can tell us if he believes THAT there is/are other messenger(s) to come after Muhammad.
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| | Unrecorded Date Assalaamu caleykum. Umar and other brothers waan idiin salaamey. I hope ahmed comes back changed for the better. I pray for you AHMED inuu ilaahey kusoo hanuuniyo.
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| | Unrecorded Date Waxaa weli maskaxdeyda ka bixi la' hadalkan laga hayo Mr. Axmed ee uu yiri: "I visited the sites of these people (submitters). And most of what they believe is islam. OK, so they believe somebody was a messenger----well, lets start with this: WAS muhammed the last prophet or messenger? When we solve this....we will have our answer" * The above statement has raised doubtness among us towards Ahmed. Such questions like this one: "I wonder if he can tell us if he believes THAT there is/are other messenger(s) to come after Muhammad." has been asked Ahmed over and over again by Bashir and now Omar and it's quiet strange that why Ahmed won't give an answer about that at all.
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| | Unrecorded Date Asalama Alaykum Muslims! NUR, Hey, I couldn’t make it either friday nor saturday. Humans -- we say we’ll do something, and God has already planned other things for us...lets you know how powerless we’re over our lives, `eh? God is Most Great! Brother, I don’t or didn’t mean to be *dogmatic* -- when people are debating, especially, if religion-related...there shouldn’t be any shame. Everything that exists -- good or evil is debateable. We’re debating about religion. AND, truly, Nur, betrayal and unfaithfulness are as wicked as those things I mentioned. IF unfaithfulness and betrayal begin with Eve, surely, Nur, every other thing that is bad must have also, right? What is more evil than to tie wicked things that people do today to the people of old? Is that not EVERYTHING that the Qur`an fights? One of the wonderful things that I love about the Qur`an is the equality of everything. Hadiths, however, have another stories to tell...and God does not love the unjust. Nur, why are you saying; “WOMEN’S HABITS”---do you really believe that these traits; “unfaithfulness and betrayal” are women’s habits? I think you’re missing my whole point. In the Qur`an, MEN AND WOMEN are inseperable. They’re equal--they both betray and do unfaithful acts...this has nothing to do with GENETIC...it has to do with every soul’s stooping level. No evil begins with specific someone -- it doesn’t. Every soul does it...because the whisperings of Satan. Nobody raises their children to be killers -- and even most parents talk to their kids against killing. YET, killing happens. Would it be fair to say...that; “was it not for abel and cain, there wouldn’t be any killing?” every soul, Nur, every soul -- has its responsibilities. And to tie evil to Eve is a wicked culture of the old that Islam has NOTHING to do with it. Judaism and X-tianity are doomed for their wicked thoughts against the righteous prophets and righteous believers. Their writings reflect how humans disrupt the good things that God gives them. TRULY, it is pitty to see that man repeats mistakes themselves. Now, about the second discussion, Nur, you don’t have to agree with me, Brother. If we agree on that God is ONE, the Creator of the Universe, and that Muhammad(pbuh)...the Arabian Prophet, was a Prophet of God and the Last One. Then, that is truly all I care for you to be my *brother*--everything else that we differ, there is a God to set things straight in a day where we are both helplessly trying to save ourselves. So, no need to agree with me...just agree with me in the above statement---and that is all. Who explained the Qur`an for us? But, God, HIMSELF...says that the Qur`an is easy for your tongue, easy to remember, and easy to understand. Who do you believe? The Muslims who are saying the qur`an was SO HARD that the Prophet had to explain it?...or the God who says; “No, it’s easy for your tongue, to remember, and to understand”? It would not be unjust if God sent a hard-to-understand book and sent a Prophet who would explain it, however, God is Most Merciful...and He sent a Book which is easy for our tongues, easy to understand, and easy to remember. I believe I cited the verses who are proof of this in above---where God clearly tells us that. I believe God, Nur. NOT what my father and his father and the one after that said. Generations and whole nations before me were turned upside-down for their following their fore-father’s *tradition*...instead of God’s. And, more or less, man repeats these mistakes over and over. I do NOT, did NOT, and will NOT...ever claim that I *tafsiir* the Qur`an; I don’t think it needs such thing. Some people accuse me that I tafsiir the Qur`an myself; this has NOTHING to do with me...but their deafness, dumbness and blindness that they’re too wraped up in other places that they can’t understand the Qur`an. So, when they see somebody who understands it without another person’s views, they think one is acting strange!hahaha!No, no, and 1000 times no. In order God to open one’s understanding, one must first declare that God is a Merciful God who sent an easy for the tongue, easy to remember and easy to understand book. THEN, and ONLY then...can one get the understanding---and can one be lifted off the deafness and dumbness and blindness. Why are the unbelievers so dumb? Because they don’t settle for God’s Maxium Mercifulness; they short it...or try to play it down a little. Ah, and God is sufficient for the Wrong-Doers. Nur, about the Prophet’s wives verses, I see that you’re still not getting my point. Literally, when God tells a law to the Prophet in the Qur`an and says; “O Prophet, tell your wives blah blah” -- does that mean...that law is ONLY applicable to the Prophet and his wives? Or is it because the Prophet was example to us...that it addresses us, too? As for the *book of wisdom*---I was just trying to tell you that the Book is of Wisdom. You’re saying the phrase is talking about two objects...while the the other is talking of two. You seem to forget the example that I cited for you...regarding JESUS(pbuh). So, what, now you think Moses and Jesus were given ONE thing together?(like the Prophet Muhammad was given THE BOOK AND WISDOM...as two things but for one person)??? each a one? the Taurat(Torah) and Injiil(Gospel)??? Ah, Nur, brother, debating is good when people take what is correct. But, if you’re trying to protect the old tradition...NO ONE can show you anything else. You must want to know the Truth...to get the Truth. If you come to defend your own truth...that will be defended, NO MATTER what. Didn’t you hear in the Qur`an; “samacnaa wacasaynaa”???(We heard...and disobeyed) NOT because they couldn’t see the Truth...but because they wanted to have their old one, even if it was not IT. Also, Nur, are we talking about *literalls* now? “BOOK and WISDOM” will seem to an unbeliever like TWO things. However, in the same token, “WE CREATED MEN” will seem to an unbeliever like TWO or THREE gods. Shall we have gods now...based on literall meanings of the way? Because the Qur`an is EXALTED, God exalts it by identifying it like the THE BOOK AND THE WISDOM. Because, it most certainly is a Book(filled with words...) and a Wisdom(filled with parables and a path to the God of the Universe...)! Similar, because God is EXALTED, God exalts Himself by saying; “WE” meaning of Exaltation and Greatness. Your defintion of; ‘from the book and from the wisdom,’ truly, Nur, I see this as clear as crystal. FROM the Book---words from the book...that if not paid attention to, are not anything but words that you can remember without giving the thought of understand it. And FROM the Wisdom---the meaning of the words that if you listen will get...the parables and the examples that can teach you great lessons if you pay attention. Which BOTH make up the Qur`an; the Glorious. Qur`an is NOT the title of this *book,* Nur. It is the NAME of the two things that come together to be the greatest work of all. The words...and their meanings. About *xadiith*---Nur, God calls risallah...risallah other places where it needs it. Xadiith, as even a proffesor at Arabic in a local university said; means “the way of telling something. A sayings or a storytelling.” He also added, “the sayings of a Prophet in Islam, Muhammad, are taken into books later which are now called ‘hadiths’” So, most certainly, the HADITHS copture the *fabi`ayi xadithin bacduhu yu`minuun*. Don’t you really think that IF Prophet Muhammad wanted people to write down his actions and sayings that he’d ask people to do it? Why did he not? because he most certainly knew that they would corrupted like Moses’...and end-up killing Islam. More over, the Prophet FORBADE anyone to write ANYTHING from him except the Qur`an. Now, why would the Prophet do that? Because the Prophet lived what the Qur`an said...and NOTHING but what the Qur`an said. If there was another wahy but the Qur`an, the Prophet would ask his scribes to write it down, as well. Nur, I know you want to hold on to the thought that the Hadiths are another part of the Qur`an, but that is not so, Brother. If it was, we would have two Qur`ans..that the Prophet ordered to be written down. Instead, we have ONE Qur`an...and something that was done even if the Prophet forbade it(like the Qur`an has). Muawiyah wrote down story from Zaid ibn Thaabat, the scribe of the Prophet, when Zaid himself told Muawiyah; “But the Prophet asked NOT to write of him anything but the Qur`an”??? this recorded in a *sahih* book. Later, in another *sahih* book, we see that Prophet Muhammad asked people to ERASE if they write anything from him but the Qur`an. Why was the Prophet so determined to not do this? Because Mishnah, supposedly the sayings of Moses, corrupted Islam in Children of Israel---it truly corrupted it to the core. And, Nur, I can say...if people truly believe, as MANY have now, that the Hadiths are another source similar with the Qur`an or that Qur`an needs it to be understood, we’re not far off the place the Children of Israel ended up. Umar, Brother, when you say that Muhammad was mistakeless, you imply that Muhammad was not human(bashar)! Human is mistakeable. GET this. No human can be mistakeless. Now, that is not the Messenger...but the human side of the person. When Muhammad gets a message from God, he will NOT make a mistake...nor can he make a mistake. However, Muhammad(the man)...can make a mistake like any other person. Now, no matter if its forgiven or not...mistake is a sin; it will not be counted as sin, but it is sin. Moses’ killing the man was sin...even if God forgave him. Prophet Muhammad’s prohibiting the lawful from himself(in 66.1) was sin, even if God forgave him. What is the whole point of sending HUMAN Messengers??? So that you can see that God forgives the sins...if one repents and returns. They’re example for us---to not forget the Mercifulness in God when we mistake...and not turn away. Muhammad was orphan...while his sons died, and he grieved. What is the point? So that he’s example to us in that what God gives and takes. I did NOT say that Adam was a messenger when he sinned, and if you look back again in the post, you will see that I didn’t. The point was, that messengership begin with him...why? why did God not wait for another person to be born who did NOT sin yet to be a messenger? AND, please, NOTE: everything that God sends to mankind are messengers...thus, every prophet is a messenger. Some messengers were NOT Prophets because they did not posses scriptures. Ah, Blessed is God who gives understanding! Now, Muhammad was eligible for Divine? Now, this is something to laugh about. You’re mixing Muhammad. Muhammad, the Messenger is a Messenger who is divine because he’s the staff of God. However, the Muhammad, the MAN, who lived and died and mistaked...was a human being who was NOT divine. Scenario; If the Muhammad, the man, tells you to do something...and that that something is from him. Is that divine? This is NOT devine...but due to be mistaken(even if it may not be) Where if the Muhammad, the Messenger, tells you to do something...and that that something is from God. Is that divine? YES! This is because...that is not due to be mistaken. You’re in deep trouble that you believe The MESSENGER in Muhammad made mistakes. This is very deep trouble, Umar. Muhammad, the MESSENGER, could NOT mistake on bit. NOBODY truly make mistakes, knowingly, but we know sins are sins...if or if they’re not forgiven. You’re saying Mistakes are not sin. WELL, well, what do I know. Imagine this...a baby is born to a christian family...and mistakenly taught that JESUS was a god or son of God. The baby grows up...and dies without having to know otherwise---is that forgiven? Also, I don’t believe Muhammad physically went to heaven, but I believe he fell asleep and went to heaven by the soul. While normal people’s souls hang around and do silly things, Muhammad’s soul was taken to heaven...and it got knowledge. Umar, you’re talking like the unbelievers when you try to make Muhammad and his soul seperate. They’re NOT seperate, but they’re not one, either. Maybe you can’t concieve that. Your very soul, UMAR’S soul dies every time you sleep...and God returns it to you when you wake up. Does that mean, you and your soul are different?...or that you are crazy to your body be soul-less while sleep? As for the verse 33:37, Prophet Muhammad feared the people instead of God; this was said by God, no matter how you try to explain it. And Muhammad(pbuh) is an example for us in this; that even when you do this...God is STILL Merciful and Forgiving. ALSO, you’re missing the point that we DO NOT follow Muhammad...but his Message. Muhammad could be nothing withou that Message. So, as far as people are concerned, it is the Message that needs to be followed and NOT the Muhammad, the man. Message comes down to him---and that messenger is NOT mistakeable where the message is concerned. It is part of being the Messenger to make mistakes. I never said that Muhammad(pbuh) dis-obeyed God...but he made mistakes. You keep going back and forth in “SINNER” that I say against Muhammad...or that Submitters say. FIRST of all, i’m not a submitter, so I can’t argue for them. HOWEVER, I don’t think Prophet Muhammad was a sinner who sinned every turn in life. This is distortion...and you know it. Also, it’s despicable that you’re saying I don’t think people should try to be the Prophet. I don’t think people can be like him, but I don’t think people shouldn’t do their best to be like him, in character. The point is that you guys(SUNNIS) and other people...corrupted his life to a different level. Where the Prophet is truly given a face-lift. The immorality that people attribute to Muhammad in the hadiths is truly despicable. YOU are doing like the X-tians; if you don’t believe Muhammad was NOT devine...you must not love the Prophet. Same way, X-tians expect you to believe that Jesus was th son of God...and if you don’t---you must not love the prophet. I think both are FUNNY! God sends...MEN...and MEN are anything but divine. If the messengers were suppose to be *devine* there’d ONLY be Angel-Messengers...but no, because those people are mistakeless...and they wouldn’t be a real example, now would they? NO! God is NEVER displeased with his messengers. SOME even called him poor and less power-ful...and abondoned their message...and he was not displeased with them...but he showed them the way and corrected them. And admitted them to his Mercy. I guess, some can’t concieve the Mercifulness in God. Ah, what the heck -- I’m only required of my soul...and that ALONE! When I said God enjoined me to believe that “Muhammad was the Messenger of God, and the Last Prophet”---Umar said that; “unlike Ahmad and the Submitters, I believe that Muhammad was the both the last messenger and prophet:” Umar wanted to say, I guess, “Unlike Ahmad and the Qur`an” since it was a quote FROM the Qur`an; [33:40 Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but (he is) the Messenger of Allah, and the Seal of the Prophets: and Allah has full knowledge of all things.] [Maa kaana Muxammadan aabaa axadan min rijaalikum; wa laakina rasuuluLaahi wa khaattamal nabiyiina; wa kaana Allahu bikuli shay`in caliiman.] Now, what made you believe that he was the last messenger, again? Let me think...hhhhmmm, Hadiths, correct! Oh, yes, Israelites believed that Joseph, the son of Jacob, was the last Messenger. And, yeah, guess what made them believe that??? Hadiths(similar to the hadiths of Prophet Muhammad -- where supposedly, saying of Joseph were kept)! Hadiths, correct! He was the last Messenger in Egpyt, they believed...but they also believed he was the last Messenger for all mankind due to corrupted books of the old. Hebrews in Egypt lived NOT expecting any Messenger of God. And Moses came to them -- maybe a Messenger will come to the Muslims...and he’ll be given signs...like making people fly or move mountains. `Cause it took similar for the Israelites to believe. Would you be so kind to explain to me verse 3;81? BUT, then again, Muhammad is divine where you concerned that he could CONFIRM his own book. Yup, my logic is most certainly *eiped*... Please, teach me...if there is something I don’t know. Hadiths stink -- the immorality in them...is more despicable than any other books. CORRECT me from the Glorious Book and Wisdom; The Qur`an! Bashir, Ah, now i’m someone else---*RIZZY*??? Oh, my, what a name. Why would I want that...when I have AHMAD????? I’m very MUCH happy with Ahmad---I would NEVER, in million years, changed it for another name...nor would I EVER go under another name. I’m one who is never afraid or ashamed to be who he is---nor do I need another name to get my ideas and views across the table. And, don’t you get old accusing people to be other people? Ansaari had similar thing, ask him where it got him. Don’t worry, whatever ideas I have...will ONLY be in AHMAD---not *annonymous* or another name. Ansaari, When do you learn...that I don't debate with Bashir or you...or Yaska, etc---anymore? I don't NOT want to squirel over the net...nor do I think it is attractive that people would go; "it is a" and "it is not a" in cirlces.Why would a comment of mine make you doubts towards me? I already told you from the begining that I was NOT Sunni. I don't get somethings that people say sometimes! Anyway, I don't believe there is or was a Messenger after Prophet Muhammad. However, the verse 3;81 speaks out itself...when people are not biased; read it...it would do yah great deal, IF you're not biased. Peace, Ahmad!
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| | Unrecorded Date Salaam all. Jazaa'akumullaahu khair to all the Muslims who defended the Rasuul from Ahmad's senseless attacks. Ahmad: You started off by saying that "Muslims blame EVE, like Jews/X-tians do". Yet I have as yet to see any proof of this. First of all, blame Eve for what? X-tians/Jews blame her for the "fall of mankind". That is, if it weren't for her temptation of Adam, "we would still be in Heaven" (absurd, since "we" wouldn't actually exist). But who said Muslims blame her? This is the Hadith you cited: "Had it not been for Eve, woman would have never acted unfaithfully towards her husband." You used this Hadith as evidence that "Muslims blame Eve". And also that Muslims believe childbirth is a punishment for women, and that women are the ones who cheat on men, and not the other way around. I'll (insha'allah) shed a little light on each of your erronous conclusions: First of all, what the Prophet is accusing of Eve, and what the Jews and Christians are accusing her of are entirely different things: Christians/Jews blame Eve for the "Fall of Man" and the loss of Eden. Eve is responsible for Adam eating the fruit, and their subsequent banishment. But the Prophet doesn't blame Eve for this. All he seems to say is that, somehow, Eve betrayed her husband. Personally, I would think that X-tians blame her for a LOT more than simple betrayal! I don't think I have ever read a Christian text that scolds Eve for betraying Adam: according to them, she did more than that! She betrayed herself (since she gets banished too), disobeyed her God, later tried to put the blame on Adam, etc etc. So is this "betrayal" the Prophet is talking about the same "betrayal" Christians are talking about? Furthermore, the Prophet does not say that Eve and her daughters will suffer in childbirth, as you seem to imply. Or that women will be punished with any other calamity. So what is your problem? Secondly, while it's true the Qur'an does not mention anywhere that Eve was to blame, neither does it say that Eve was NOT to blame! So I don't know why you think the Hadith contradicts the Qur'an. Could you show me this contradiction? As for the question of responsibility, it's true that the Qur'an says people are only punished for their own sins, and not for the sins of their ancestors or descendants. But the prophet did NOT say that women are punished as a result of Eve's betrayal! So once again, where's the contradiction? All the Prophet said is this: "Had it not been for Eve, woman would have never acted unfaithfully towards her husband." All this Hadith says is this: 1) Somehow, Eve betrayed her husband. It doesn't say what the betrayal was, and neither does it blame her for the "fall of mankind". So NO, Muslims do not generally "blame Eve". 2) Eve was the first woman to betray her husband. So? Not surprising really. Humanity has always been overachievers when it comes to sinning. Adam disobeyed God, Eve betrayed Adam, Cain killed Abel...and so on. Probably the grandchildren had a thief or two, a prostitute, a blackmailler, and each of them was the first to commit that particular sin. Had we know their names, we would probably have said: "If so-and-so did not steal/fornicate/blackmail, man/woman would never have". Perhaps all the Prophet was doing was pointing out that women betray men. But he didn't say MEN don't betray WOMEN, did he? I am pretty sure there's a Hadith or Sura in the Qur'an says something like "Had it not been for Cain, man would never have murdered his brother." Does this mean all men are murderers and all women innocents? Of course not. The point is, Eve's supposed betrayal of Adam was bound to happen. Just like Cain was bound to kill Abel. Yet look, Cain still receives punishment each time one person murders another, but Eve got off scot-free. Obviously, her crime wasn't anywhere near murder, otherwise she'd still be punished for it, each time another woman betrayed her husband. I am a woman, Ahmad, and yet I still manage to see neither the Prophet nor Abu Huraira said anything anti-women. But you just want to take any Hadith, manipulate it to say something it didn't, and conclude baselessly that the Prophet sinned. Fortunately, my Muslim brothers/sisters prove again and again that they are too smart to fall for your lame tricks.
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| | Unrecorded Date Ahmed said to me "Brother, when you say that Muhammad was mistakeless, you imply that Muhammad was not human(bashar)!" Human is mistakeable. GET this. No human can be mistakeless. Now, that is not the Messenger...but the human side of the person" Ahmed knows that WHAT I have been saying WAS that the *MEN* of Allah--(messengers of Allah)--make mistakes, but WHAT Ahmed does not *GET* IT is THAT-----MISTAKES are not SIN. Ahmed said "When Muhammad gets a message from God, he will NOT make a mistake"----HOWEVER, from this, it is clear that Ahmed does not read the Quran. Allah is again contradicting what the submitters told Ahmed and AHMED believes THAT without verifying ABOUT its TRUTH. Allah Subxaana Watacaalaa in His Book said while correcting His messenger--while--the messenger was *getting* the Quranic *message from Allah*--while the *messenger* in his anxiety not to miss a single Word of the Quran, kept repeating it simultaneously with its inspiration by Angel Jibriil--which was a MISTAKE(not a SIN): "Exalted is Allah, the True King! Hasten thou(O messenger) with the Quran(repeating it while it is being revealed to you) before its Revelation to thee is finished(through the angle Jibriil) and say thou(O messenger--if you fear lest a portion of the Quran might slip from memory): Lord: give me increase in knowledge(Knowledge, comprehends memory, retentiveness, proper understanding, in short, every means of acquiring and preserving knowledge).---Suratul-Ta-Ha 114. Ahmed needs to read the Quran by himself before taking what the submitters tell him--before he writes them on here..Ahmed said about the Messenger "..nor can he make a mistake. However, Muhammad(the man)...can make a mistake like any other person" Ahmed said "no matter if its forgiven or not...mistake is a sin; it will not be counted as sin, but it is sin. Moses’ killing the man was sin...even if God forgave him" Now, Ahmed is trying to sell us that MISTAKES are SINS. Where did he get this information---if not from THE submitters and their HADEETH? In Suratul Kahf, prophet Muuse made a mistake of not obeying a servent of Allah whom Allah sent Muuse to meet. This servant had a special knowledge consisted mainly of a pre-vision of the events of this world, and was a different from the Knowledge of Divine truths imparted to Muuse, though by no means superior to it. This servant of Allah's name is Khadhr or Khadhir. Allah said "....on him We had bestowed a mercy from before Us and him We had taught a KNOWLEDGE from Our presence. Muuse said to him: I follow you and you may teach me of what you have been taught a directive knowledge. He said: verily you(Muuse) will not be able to have patience with me; and how can you have patience over that which your knowledge does not encompass?(over things a of a mysterious nature, which will certainly appear to them as opposed to the Laws of God). Muuse said: You will find me, if Allah Will, patient, and I shall NOT DISOBEY you in any affair. He said: well, if you would follow me, then do not question me of anything, until I begin to mention it myself(and to interpret its meaning). Then the two(Muuse and his instructor) journeyed together until when they embarked in a boat, he(the instructor) scuttled it(the boat by pulling out a plank or two by means of a small axe which he had with him). Muuse said: have you scuttled it that you may drown the people thereof? assuredly you have committed a thing grievous. He(the instructor) said: did I not tell you that you would not be able to have patience with me? Muuse said: DO NOT TAKE ME TO TASK FOR WHAT I FORGOT and do not impose hardship in my affair(by taking me to task for a mere lapse of memory)..... As you can see, the moral of the story and my point of pointing out of it is that Muuse made a mistake while receiving knowledge from Allah and Muuse said DO NOT TAKE ME TO TASK FOR WHAT I FORGOT, the mistake he made. Ahmed does not want to accept that messengers of Allah CAN make MISTAKES while receiving MESSAGE from ALLAH, but these MISTAKES are not SINS.!!! Ahmed does not know that in Islam, unintentional and mere lapse of memory and mistake will not take you to HELL; deliberate disobedience to sin can take you to HELL if not forgiven. Ahmed said our prophet Muhammad PROHIBITED AND DISOBEYED Allah. He said "Prophet Muhammad’s prohibiting the lawful from himself(in 66.1) was sin, even if God forgave him". Ahmed and the submitters MIS-TRANSLATE in their RASHAD KHALIFA's Book, the same RASHAD KHALIFA who CLAIMED to have been a messenger from ALLAH.!! The verse says this: "O prophet! why do you forbid(BY TAKING A VOW) for you(YOURSELF O Prophet) what Allah has allowed to you, seeking the goodwill of YOUR WIVES(in your over-fondness or tenderness towards them, O Prophet)" This verse is talking about some incident in the Holy Prophet's domestic life. The messenger did not disobey Allah; He did not commit SIN; He just took a VOW and SWORE from his wives. What Allah forgave and made amends for the prophet is the VOW taken by the prophet and what Allah ordained for his messenger was absolution of the VOW. Now, In the succeeding verses after verse 1 tell the whole thing and if the prophet committed SIN and DISOBEYED Allah. "Surely Allah has ordained for you absolution from your OATH(of not going into his wives); and Allah is your Patron(your friend, helper and protector, O Messenger), and He(Allah) is the Knower, the Wise. And recall when the prophet confided a story to one of this spouses, then she disclosed it(to a co-wife). Allah apprised him of it(by a special Revelation); he made known a part of it(to the wife who had divulged his secret), and(out of modesty and considereteness of her feelings) a part he withheld(from her). Then when he had appraised her of it, she said: who has told you of it? He said: the Knower, the Aware has told me. Then if you two(the two co-wives concern--the messenger not including) turn to Allah REPENTANT, it is well, surely your hearts are so inclined. But if you support each other against him, then verily Allah! his friend is He and Jibriil, and so are the righteous believers(so the messenger can't be injured by any petty domestic intrigues), and furthermore angles are his aiders. If he divorce you(O wives of the Messenger), perchance his Lord will give him in exchange better wives than you(so you ought not to presume too much on yourselves): Muslims, believes, devout, penitent, worshippers, given to fasting, both an non-virgins and virgins." As you can see, the messenger is not the one committed SIN; he is not the one told to "turn to Allah's REPENTANT"; instead Allah defended His messenger and protected him. The prophet took an OATH and took it back with no sins. There were another story about another prophet(Yunis) who took an OATH. Prophet Yunis fell ill and had a very prolonged and loathsome illness-- was attended to very devotedly by his wife. Once the devil appeared to her, and taking advantage of her distracted condition reminded her of her past prosperity, and promised her that if she would worship him he would not only heal her husband, but restore to them whatever they had lost. On coming home she wanted to sound her husband on the subject. But hardly had she mentioned the proposal when the prophet Yunis was incensed at the very audacity of it, and SWORE forthwith to punish his wife hundred stripes. But After Allah Himself restored to Yunis his family, not only were they restored but also their number was doubled, Allah said to him further "And take in thy hand a handful of twinges(a bundle of rushes, a hundred in number), and strike with it(your wife--she was now restored to her former youth and beauty--and Yunis to satisfy his OATH taken in a mood of moral indignation, is now directed by Allah to strike her one simple blow with the palm-branch having a hundred leaves), and break not thy Oath(by abstaining from striking her altogether---the obligation of the OATH is rescinded as a matter of special mercy)" Thus, our messenger Muhammad by taking an OATH was forgiven(not by breaking any Law and sinning as Ahmed and submitters are trying to sell us). And while Yunis by taking an OATH was replaced with lesser thing, lesser punishment for his wife. Both prophets of Allah didn't DISOBEY Allah and both did NOT commit SIN.!---The Yunis's wife was punished little for her SIN and Allah restored for her husband, children and beauty while messenger Mohammed’s wives were told to seek forgiveness and they were given the choice to adopt a life of righteousness which they had chosen and done. !! Ahmed said "the Messenger is a Messenger who is divine because he’s the staff of God." Now, this is funny and laughable. Scenario. :-) If "the Messenger is a Messenger who is divine" as Ahmed said, then who was Muhammad? :-) Was Muhammad not the "Messenger", himself? :-) Ahmed continued and said "However, the Muhammad, the MAN, who lived and died and mistaken...was a human being who was NOT divine" Scenario :-) So, according to Ahmed, we had in Muhammad, the MAN(not the MACSUUM), the SINNER---"SIN(66.1)"!!! And we had the Messenger(not Muhammad the MAN), BUT THE MESSENGER ONLY who was *DIVINE*!! :-) Thus, according to Ahmed, we have/had a split personality for a prophet!(Nacuudu Bilaah). And if we may ask: Who has REALLY A SPLIT-PERSONALIY HERE---Ahmed---or---a MAN WHOM Allah said He CREATED AND MADE HIM TO BE QULU-QIN CADIIM.!! Speaking of split-personality, one time, Ahmed agrees with me and says "Do I think Prophets commit sin? NO!" and another time he says that the mistakes the messenger Muhammad made are SINS.!! ---"SIN(66.1)"!!! Ahmed says to me "You’re in deep trouble that you believe The MESSENGER in Muhammad made mistakes" when I have been telling him the mistakes the messenger Muhammad made was not SINS.!! Ahmed said "we know sins are sins",---but Ahmed at the same time says prophets DO NOT commit SINNS.!! Ahmed in his wacky logical thinking says mistakes are sin and prophet's make sins but they DO NOT COMMIT SIN!!! Then, Ahmed says to me "You’re saying Mistakes are not sin. WELL, well, what do I know. Imagine this...a baby is born to a Christian family...and mistakenly taught that JESUS was a god or son of God. The baby grows up...and dies without having to know otherwise---is that forgiven?" Well, if the "baby grows up" and he had heard that JESUS was not a god---but if this "baby who grown up" still believes this to be the "truth" that JESUS is god, then he is accountable this belief of his--- which is not a MISKTAKE. Ahmed said "I don’t believe Muhammad physically went to heaven, but I believe he fell asleep and went to heaven by the soul. While normal people’s souls hang around and do silly things, Mohammed’s soul was taken to heaven...and it got knowledge." Now, this HADEETH Ahmed believes is different from the HADEETH the MUSLIMS believe----BUT did AHMED say that he DOES NOT FOLLOW HADEETH OF HIS OWN---OR DOES AHMED FOLLOW AND BELIEVE THE HADEETHS FROM THE SUBMITTERS?!!! We Muslims, unlike submitters and Ahmed, believe that the Messenger of Allah was carried in BODY from the Sacred Masjid in Makkah to the distance Masjid on a horse called Al-Buraq in the company of Jibriil. Ahmed and submitters do not believe the Quran if they disbelieve this verse: "Hallowed be He(Allah)! Who translated His slave(BICABDIHI--THE HOLY PROPHET HIMSELF) in a night from the Sacred Masjid to the Further Masjid, the environs of which We have blessed, that WE MIGHT SHOW HIM(Muhammad with his bodily eyes) of OUR SINGS. Verily He! He is the Hearer, the Beholder" Now, we have our HADEETH and Ahmed and Submitters have their HADEETH. We say that the prophet was SHOWN with his OWN BODILY EYES the SINGS of Allah, but the submitters say the prophet's SOUL went up there while his BODY was down on the earth which the QURAN does not say......So, where did Ahmed get his HADEETH? But let's say and even let's allow Ahmed and the submitters that the AL-MIRAJ Journey was merely the SOUL, and not the BODY----does that mean then that Muhammad had TWO SOULS------in that the Muhamma(the MAN) didn't experience the Journey------and that only the Messenger in him experience the Journey to heaven?!!! We Muslims, unlike Ahmed and submitters, believe that Muhammad the MAN, like Ibrahim, the MAN, like Muuse, the MAN saw the SIGNS of Allah with their OWN EYES. "And in like manner did We show Ibrahim the governance of the heavens and earth(Allah gave Ibrahim a right apprehension of the government of the world and heavenly bodies), in order that he might become of the convinced"--Suratul-Anaam 75-------"that We may show you(O Muuse) of our sings the GREATEST"---Suratul-Taha 23. Ahmed said to me: "you’re missing the point that we DO NOT follow Muhammad...but his Message". I think Ahmed is the one missing *the point* by SEPARATING THE MAN FROM THE MESSAGE. :-). Allah said "Say(O Muhammad to mankind): "If you(really) love Allah then FOLLOW me, Allah will love you". Now, not only do we need to follow Muhammad--- whom Allah said is the CALAA QULI-QIN CADIIM---we ALSO need to LOVE him(Muhammad), even now that he is no longer with us---WITHOUT THE SOUL OR BODY OF MUHAMMAD. Ahmed is here flip-flopping---he says "I never said that Muhammad(pbuh) dis-obeyed God-----THEN AHMED SAYS-----but he made mistakes." and THEN HE SAYS---- "Mistakes are sin" AND THEN HE SAYS---- "prophets do not commit sin"....!!!!! :-) Ahmed said to me "what made you believe that he was the last messenger, again? Let me think...hhhhmmm, Hadiths, correct!" Yes, the HADEETH SUNNIS believe says that Muhammad is both the last prophet and the last messenger, but Ahmed's HADEETH which he wrote on here says "everything that God sends to mankind are messengers...thus, every prophet is a messenger. Some messengers were NOT Prophets because they did not posses scriptures. Ah, Blessed is God who gives understanding!" Now, If "every prophet is a messenger"---as Ahmed and submitters are saying----and if Allah said Muhammad is KHAATAMA-NABIYIINA(The final and the SEAL OF THE PROPHETS), then Muhammad is both the SEAL OF MESSENGERS AND THE SEAL PROPHETS, right, Ahmed? :-)
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| | Unrecorded Date salaamu calaykum waraxmatulaahi wabarakaatu IKHWATI FIL CAQIIDA BARAKALAAHU FIKUM WA KATHARALAAHU AMTHALAKUM AAMIIN walaalayaal ilaahay ha idinka abaal mariyo sida fiican ee aad u difaacaysaan Nebiga iyo Diinta islaamka ilaahayna ha idiinku daro miisanka xasanaadka runtii Ahmed hore ayaan isaga joogiyey hadalkiisa waxaana arkay in wax marayaa aanay jirin oo uu u yimi meesha muran iyo in uu dadka aan cilmiga diinta aan sifiican u aqoon uu geliyo shaki lakiin Nabigii salalaahu calayhi wasalam waxaa laga wariyey xadiith macanahiisu yahay <IN ANAY KA SUULAY UMADA NABI MAHAMMED (SCW) KOOX SHEEGTA AMA U TAAGAN XAQA ILAA YOOMAL QIYAAMA WAXNA AANAY U NOQONEEN KUWA KASOO HORJEEDA AMA DAMCA IN AY SIRAN ILAA UU KA YIMAADO AMIRIGII ILAAHAY EE AHAA QIYAAM AL SAACA> marka ilaahay xaqa ha ina waafijiyo oo ha inagu dilo aamiin, Ilaahayna waxaan ka baryeyna Ahmed iyo kuwa sidiisa oo kale dhunsan in ilaahay soo hadeeyo oo xaqa tuso isaga ayaa awooda iska lehe. wasalaamu calaykum waraxmatulaahi wabarakaatu Ukhtakum filaah Yaasmiin
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| | Unrecorded Date Asalama Alaykum! Deeqa, Sister, huh? You think Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) needs anybody's defending? I'm attacking Prophet Muhammad or the lies that are attributed to him? Do I attack Prophet Moses when I say that HE NEVER said "you can have the Gentile's wealth...and not return it -- if you wish"??? Because this is what is said "Moses said". What? Do you not travel the Earth and see any examples? PPPUUUUHHHHLLLLEEEZZZZ! This is the excuse of the old. Jews think i'm attacking Prophet Moses when I refuse that he said that, do you see parable? SIMILAR, Prophet Muhammad was *attacking*, according to wonderful *rightly* guided men among Quraish...when he refused that Ishmael and Kedar appointed for them gods...and prophecied for them those who'd "intercede" for them. Was he attacking Ishmael and Kedar -- when he told them that they didn't say that? About *which* betrayal it is; TRULY, I don't care for that. The point that i'm getting is that...WHY blame EVE??? "Had it not been for EVE," this says...she started it; this is itself is NOT Qur`anic. God mentions Cain's killing of his brother...and God also mentions in the Qur`an *betrayal*---why did not God mention Eve's *forever* betrayal...that didn't stop but continues??? Besides, any holy book -- the ONLY betrayal that is recorded is that of the TREE. And, instead of saying she betrayed God(IF she betrayed anything...which I do not believe she did ALONE but with her husband)...they say she betrayed her husband. And the hadith confirms that Eve betrayed her husband. Need I have to think hard that the betraying face of Eve is just one? Ah, God's wrath is upon the liars. You said; "The point is, Eve's supposed betrayal of Adam was bound to happen. Just like Cain was bound to kill Abel. Yet look, Cain still receives punishment each time one person murders another, but Eve got off scot-free. Obviously, her crime wasn't anywhere near murder, otherwise she'd still be punished for it, each time another woman betrayed her husband." HUH??? So, what? Now God holds Cain to every man that is killed??? My God, I need a BREAK! WOW! oh, WOW! Get this; I'm NOT againt the Prophet, nor do I think He said anything close to that. I'm against SOME hadiths and the notion that they're pure as Qur`an...when they are NOT! FYI, Sister, I have seen JEWISH Women...who are defending the evil of the oldie anti-women guys, as well. Nothing is news to me. I have seen women...who advocate and submitt to something that God, the Merciful, did NOT put upon them. Cursed are those who advocate evil and attribute it to God -- as God says, "who is more unjust" -- I know not. Umar, I will read/respond to your message later! Peace, Ahmad!
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| | Unrecorded Date Asalama Alaykum Muslims! Umar, FIRST of all, lets get somethings straight...I DO NOT quote the translation of Rashad Khalifa, and I don’t believe that Rashad was a Messenger(i’m learning more about him...but I sure don’t believe him to be a messenger) so don’t mistake in that. I quote Shakir, Pica., and Y. Ali. And, you can trust me when I tell you -- all of the translations have errors...one point or another. ANYWAY, lets see the very first verse of Lima-Tuharim! It reads; “Yaa ayahul nabiyu lima-tuxarima maa axala Allahu laka tab-taqii mardaata aswaajika walaahu khafuurul-raxiim” You accused me of misquoting that, correct? WELL, lets see that; I quoted as; “Prophet Muhammad’s PROHIBITING the LAWFUL for himself” The verse says; “LIMA-TUXARIMA MAA AXALA ALLAHU” where in the verse is there *ALLOWED* like you quoted? it’s *LAWFUL*(literally)...and PROHIBIT. “lima tuxarima” “WHY PROHIBIT” “maa axala Allahu” “WHAT GOD MADE LAWFUL(Litteraly)!” You can correct me if i’m wrong...BUT, did I mis-quote anything? I won’t accuse you of anything...even with the obvious. I don’t wanna defend myself...every time you decide to distort my sayings. It is better to be objective when debating with others, Umar. Also, you seem to have trouble between MISTAKES and FORGETFULNESS! Mistakes are sin...if or if not forgiven(SHIRK is not forgiven...even if its done, mistakenly!) I asked you in prior post---would it be fair to say that the X-tian baby who is mistakenly believed a different thing is held responsible for his actions? HOWEVER, if due to forgetfulness...we commit sin(do not pray, etc) we are not held accountable for that. Moses forgot...the promise...NOT mistaken. He says; “DO NOT TAKE ME TO TASK FOR WHAT I FORGOT” not “WHAT I’D MISTAKEN”. ALSO, Umar, what did you really learn from the lesson??? I, Ahmad, learned that God’s Messengers(the human-side) is like any other...who cannot stand what is beyond human. ALSO, please Umar, don’t say that which you do not know -- Moses wanted to get the knowledge...as Moses(pbuh)! God did not tell him to God to that Man. Nor was this wahy...or any Message to mankind. God records this to us...as a parable and example; that human messengers are HUMAN -- NOT devine...where the Angels are devine, after Iblis! This is because, after Iblis, there is evil. The Messenger side of the *human* is divine...because it is the staff of God. HOWEVER, the human-side of the Human...is still human, due to mistkae. Remember, when God finished making wahy to Moses(pbuh) in one of the early encounters Moses had with God...Moses asked to see God; why did he do that? Hehehe! :) Also, Umar, I see like the unbelievers...you cannot accept that which is your mind cannot handle. Prophet Muhammad, as recorded in history, would get sweats and change, literally, when recieving Nahwy. Once that was done, it’d be committed to his memory like *A* that he’d NOT be able to forget or mistake in it; that is the Messenger side of Muhammad. And the example one, while still a messenger, was the man...who we could learn from and was the parable living among the humans. The main important thing of sending a human-messenger is so that we can SEE their mistakes and how God forgives them and their humanity side. The divine side i’m talking about is the connected-side to the beyond world...where the God of Universe communicates with human-being; that side is divine and is not and cannot mistake. It is hard for you to see what I can see as crystal. We have in the Qur`an that a man was born without a father but by a mortal woman -- in my mind, I see that making perfect sense...and i’m sure yours has it, too. HOWEVER, a X-tian will never get that; he makes a father for Jesus...thus leaving his blocked-mind make entertaining thoughts as Jesus being literally the son of God. Now, you cannot see that Muhammad was a man like me and you...and that Muhammad also was a Messenger. And that a part of muhammad was human---that was due to mistake...while the other part was PROTECTED, supernaturally, to mistake or forget. Like the X-tian, you want him either all-devine...or all-human. And, that my friend...is not possible for Messengers---since they participate two worlds! He was the Staff of God, as a part. And, also, another part, a husband to A`ishah, Muriah, Zainab, etc! :) You think I have split-personality. Umar, I swear on my God’s name, a X-tian once told me that Muhammad must have been crazy to agree with the Gospel half...and have another half. Muhammad was not crazy, but that was because half of the story in the Gospel was right...while another part was corrupted. Umar, you just proved more of my point when you quoted God telling Prophet Muhammad to take it easy. This is because God WILL NOT let Messengers make mistakes. They don’t have that choice to make mistakes. The Message is not just send it on the human -- but God protects the HUMAN from making a little mistake in the message. The man, human, may make the mistakes...but the messenger, in the man, cannot make mistakes. The messenger part of him is supernaturally taken care of. Remember, God did NOT talk to Muhammad, peace and blessings be upon him, about this AFTER it was revealed...but before it was revealed---where Prophet Muhammad was talked to AFTER in 66.1! Do you see the difference? One part of him is made sure...BEFORE-HAND----while the other part is corrected later. And, history records Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) repenting to his Lord. And because he is the Messenger...His mistakes are always forgiven. God, takes the Messengers who rebell against him(JONAH...who left his message) and He takes them back to Him, in obidience, and then forgives them! Blessed is the God...whose Mercy is beyond Man’s capability of understanding! As for the BABY, I already told you that if he died without knowing anything else(say he came from WISCONSIN...in a small town like Genoa City---where nobody even knows Islam...let alone their beliefs!) do you think that baby who grows into a man in farm...and worships his *Risen Lord* will go to heaven due to the mistake? hhaha! Blessed BE! As for the verse, 17.1, once again, you go deep trouble identifying me with Submitters -- had I not tell you this before, I would assume...this is mistake. BUT, ah, God does not love the conjectures, Umar. *the envisions which we blessed*...and *by night* make perfect sense to sincere Muslim that Muhammad(pbuh) was dreaming...since God made the night a rest...and God is one who examples His creations in example. Also, who said that Muhammad the man didn’t experience anything that Muhammad the Messenger did? What i’m saying is that Muhammad the MAN could mistake unlike the Muhammad the Messenger. Also, similar, Abraham was shown a great test...was that with *his bodily eyes*??? Ah, not goody! You think God is limited to showing *physical*? God could show Prophet Muhammad anything He wanted BEFORE he was born...let alone in a dream; God only says it *BE* and *it will BE*...remember? :) Also, the point is...Muhammad was not shown just *signs*...but was summoned into Heaven to get knowledge; the Qur`an, the participation of the covenant with other prophets, etc. This is was what people believed untill the Hadith appeared in the 3rd century Hijriah. This belief was changed due to the belief that Muhammad was the *last* messenger...when God clearly teaches that there is a Messenger to come. Many shias belief that this will be *Mahdi*...and I won’t believe that untill the MESSENGER comes, may he be blah or mahdi. When he comes, he’ll be like any other messenger who brings proof...and i’m Muslim who will submitt to what he brings, if it is supported, evidently. But, the Qur`an is always a constant burden of evidence above those who deny the clear revelations of their Lord. You’re distorting God’s words when you tafsiir; “khaatimal nibiyiin” as “the final and the Seal of the prophets” it means one...whichever you choose. However, this is the thing; every messenger is a messenger...but not every messenger is a Prophet! Messengers came through-out time, however, the men-messengers...were Messengers and Prophets. Messenger-Prophets had the pleasure to both bring new message...and rule in Islam. HOWEVER, only-Messengers had only ruled what came before them...and didn’t bring new thing. Messenger that were not Prophet only brought people back to the religion of Islam...without adding/subtracting anything from it. However, Prophet brough new prohibitions/lawfulnesses. In 3;81...TRULY, God teaches the differences between Messenger and Prophet. He covenants with the Prophets(and says I will give you BOOK AND WISDOM) and tells them after that will come to them a MESSENGER who would confirm what was given them(Most, surely, this messenger is one who will not have a *BOOK AND WISDOM*...since he only confirms what the prophets, whom God covenanted with, brought)! Also, since this Messenger, that WILL be sent, is obviously not there, we KNOW Muhammad was there from another verse in the Qur`an. An ancient Hebrew writing in Jerusalem mesuim, there is a hadith which says that Joseph said he was the LAST Messenger in Egpyt and for all Mankind. This was surely a corrupted hadith. And, my famous phrase, that the *day repeats itself!* takes its toll on that! :) p.s. Umar, if you look where our discussions began, you'll see that it was YOU who was refusing that Prophets made mistakes! :) Peace, Ahmad!
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| | Unrecorded Date Asalaamu Alaykum Ahmed; when you last posted and said “Your posts have a lot of stuff that itself opens doors to other discussions” I confess that I asked myself what doors to other discussions? I then listed few borderlines that I acquainted myself with, during my debate with you, I listed the most repetitive and the most used style of yours before You even posted this last post. I listed false logic, irrelevance, faulty philosophical reasoning, inaccurate explanations, constant contradictions, emotional fiddling with the Qur’an and last but certainly not least personal crusade against the Hadith and the personality of prophet Mohamed (pbuh). All I needed to do was to superimpose Ahmed’s arguments to these borderlines and see how his arguments fit those borderlines. Ahmed you said to me “IF unfaithfulness and betrayal begin with Eve, surely, Nur, every other thing that is bad must have also, right?” What a logic! How can every thing that we do to this day start with our forefather or mother? Don’t you know the basics of how live evolves? With it, how habits and attitudes evolve? Do you understand the dynamics of the Qur’an being the regulator of all times? But then it is a wishful thinking to demand from your false logic to understand what I am talking about. Then Ahmad you continued “Nur, why are you saying; “WOMEN’S HABITS”---do you really believe that these traits; “unfaithfulness and betrayal” are women’s habits? I think you’re missing my whole point. In the Qur`an, MEN AND WOMEN are inseparable. They’re equal--they both betray and do unfaithful acts...this has nothing to do with GENETIC” Ahmed, I was explaining to you what the Hadith was talking about, the Hadith was talking about Women and Women’s habits, particularly the “unfaithfulness and betrayal” that does not mean men are not “unfaithfulness or betrayers” there are plenty of other Hadiths which talk about men and men’s habits, sister Deeqa has done a very good job on that matter only if you would LISTEN AND HEAR!. You do not need to draw the irrelevant topic of women’s rights movements. Ahmed, prophet Mohamed explained the Qur’an for us (people) it is clearly stated in this following verse; 16.44 and We have sent down unto thee (also) the Message; that thou mayest explain clearly to men what is sent for them The verse says that we (Allah) have sent down to you (to you prophet Mohamed) the Message, in order to explain to men, to people, what is sent down for them (the Qur’an). What is the message that is sent down to prophet Mohamed, in order to explain the Qur’an, rather than the Prophet's Hadiths (which are his assertions, actions and his guidance)? Allah is talking about two revelations sent down to prophet Mohamed (pbuh) one explaining the other. The verse clearly talks about what is sent down for us men/people (Qur’an) that prophet Mohamed is explaining it for us, by his assertions, actions and guidance which are clearly the revelations that Allah has sent down on to prophet Mohamed (the Hadith). This is also another clear indication of the WAHY status of the Hadith of prophet Mohamed (pbuh). Perhaps for those who know Arabic can clearly understand this concept in the original Arabic recitation of the verse which is: 16.44 Wa’anzalnaa ilayka aldikra litubayina linaasi maa nuzila ilayhim waxaan kuu soo dejinay fariinta (xusuusta)(xadiiska) si aad dadka ugu cadeyso wixii loo soo dejiyey(Qur'aanka) Hadaad af Soomaaliga taqaano Axmed waa wax nabiga loo soo dejiyey oo cadeynaya(sharxaya) wax dadka loo soo dejiyey, hadaad leedahay waxa nabiga loo soo dejiyeyna ma nabiga keliya ayey ku ekaayeen, ha hilmaamin aayadaha dhahaya waxa nabiga idiinla yimaada oo dhan qaata. Qur’an indeed is not hard, Allah have made it easy to understand, but the Qur’an as (jawaamicul kalim) contains a coded assertions which is valid till the day of the judgement, its mysteries (icjaaz) is being unfolded every day and its challenge that no one can ever come up with anything like the Qur’an is not only in terms of linguistic challenge but a challenge of every aspect of what is contained in the Qur’an. Ahmed, you and I know very well, that your Arabic is not that brilliant, but you still keep emotionally fiddling with the Qur’an and believe that Qur’an does not need any Tafsiir (interpretation). Let us look at one other pathetic imotional fiddling with the Qur'an; * In order God to open one’s understanding, one must first declare that God is a Merciful God who sent an easy for the tongue, easy to remember and easy to understand book. THEN and ONLY then...can one get the understanding---and can one be lifted off the deafness and dumbness and blindness. * Ahmad; In order to understand Qur’an one needs iman and KNOWLEDGE (ILM), in fact it is only through your knowledge that you will know that your iman is the right one, that your Aqiidah is the right one and that your deeds are on the right track. I must tell you at this point, that you are in the danger of falling among those whom Allah said about them “do not make mockery of Allah’s verses” Ahmad regarding prophets wives, it is you who have missed both the literal and conceptual meaning of the verses, your question of whether laws addressed towards prophets wives being applicable to other Muslim women is an irrelevant emission all together (we are not debating that), what we are talking about is whether the verses are talking literally and conceptually to prophets wives or not? I believe that the verses are clearly talking to prophets wives , when the verses say; “O Consorts of the Prophet! Ye are not like any of the (other) women” verse 33.32 as well as when the next verse says “And stay quietly in your houses” verse 33.33 I also see that Allah is still addressing the wives of the prophet when the verses continue to say; “And recite what is rehearsed to you in your homes, of the Signs of Allah and His Wisdom” verse 33.34. These verses Ahmad, are addressing the wives of prophet Mohamed (pbuh) and you and I were discussing particularly about what is being read in the homes of the prophet’s wives (prophet’s homes) “And recite what is rehearsed to you in your homes, of the Signs of Allah and His Wisdom” the question here Ahmad, is whether the addressed homes in this verse are the homes of the prophet or not? And what wisdom other than the Qur’an was being read in the prophet’s homes? The answer you either do not see or do deny is the Hadith of the prophet (his actions, assertions and guidance). Or are you saying Ahmad, that all the prophet read in his homes was the Qur’an only? While staying with literal and conceptual meaning Ahmad, I now doubt whether you have ever read the basics of Arabic language (even in Somalia) look at what you are saying and stealthily, though not that successfully, trying to pass through that whoever does not agree with you is an unbeliever!when you say; * Also, Nur, are we talking about *literalls* now? “BOOK and WISDOM” will seem to an unbeliever like TWO things. However, in the same token, “WE CREATED MEN” will seem to an unbeliever like TWO or THREE gods” * We created men, (inaa khalaqnal insaana), Everybody who read elementary Arabic literally understands, when “WE” or INAA in Arabic is used, (another free tutoring Ahmed) “INAA” is used on two occasions, when someone is with someone (in plural sense) or when someone is acting majestic, for example in England, the Kings and the Queens normally use “WE” instead of “I” when addressing their subjects. Every believer actually knows that one of Allah’s names is “MUTAKABIR” and Ahmad, every believer knows that Prophet’s assertions (Hadiths) are of WISDOM! By God! what misinterpretations or complete lack of knowledge of you Ahmed, when you say the following; * About *xadiith*---Nur, God calls risallah...risallah other places where it needs it. Xadiith, as even a proffesor at Arabic in a local university said; means “the way of telling something. A sayings or a storytelling.” He also added, “the sayings of a Prophet in Islam, Muhammad, are taken into books later which are now called ‘hadiths’” So, most certainly, the HADITHS copture the *fabi`ayi xadithin bacduhu yu`minuun*. * What a logic! Against the background of your professor’s definitions of hadith that it means “saying or story telling” or “the saying Of prophet in Islam” let us put this verse into context and see if Hadith in this verse means the “saying of the prophet” In Arabic recitation 7.185 “awalam yanduruu fii malakuutisamaawaati wal ardh wamaa khalaqallaahu min shay’in wa an casaa an yakuuna qad iqtaraba ajalahum fabi`ayi xadiithin bacdahu yu`minuun” In English Translation 7. 185. Do they see nothing in the government of the heavens and the earth and all that Allah hath created? (Do they not see) that it may well be that their terms is nigh drawing to an end? In what message (let us even substitute for Ahmad’s sake “WHAT HADITH”) after this will they then believe? I would like to ask those who can speak either Arabic or English, Does HADITH in this verse mean the hadith of prophet Mohammed (pbuh) ? Well Ahmad, your intentions are clear as crystal. You have a personal crusade against the Hadith and the personality of prophet Mohamed (pbuh), which the Submitters are well known for. Ahmad have tried very hard to compose that we (the brothers/sisters who differ from him) have said that Hadith is as the same level as the Qur’an, we have never said that in anywhere in this discussion or elsewhere. We have always maintained the Hadith to be second in position as source of TASHRIIC and Qur’an to be in the first position. Ahmed quoted Hadiths where the prophet forbade the writings of Hadiths when the Qur’an is being revealed, well Ahmed first I must say that your contradictions are breathtaking! You disqualify Hadiths by quoting other Hadiths and maintain the corruptibility of Hadiths as a source, what an interesting idea; [Disqualify Hadiths as source and use other Hadiths to disqualify Hadiths, and where needed call the help of Talmut and "famous" Rabbis]. I think we should name this as AHMADOLOGY! The Hadiths Ahmad quoted (with their debatable sahih status) are simply forbidding the sahabah to write the prophet’s assertions when the Qur’an is being revealed in order to maintain the hierarchy of the TASHRIIC. Wasalaam
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| | Unrecorded Date Ahmed said "FIRST of all, lets get something straight...I DO NOT quote the translation of Rashad Khalifa, and I don’t believe that Rashad was a Messenger" Ahmed knows that I didn't say that he did "quote the translation of Rashad Khalifa". He knows that I said "Ahmed and the submitters MIS-TRANSLATE in their RASHAD KHALIFA's Book, the same RASHAD KHALIFA who CLAIMED to have been a messenger from ALLAH.!!". Ahmed said he is "learning more about" Rashad Khalifa----as though Ahmed never heard before a guy named "Rashad Khalifa who CLAIMED to have been a messenger from ALLAH"!!! :-) And yes, "lets get something straight"---what Ahmed and the submitters MIS-TRASLATE is the verse(66.1)--which they say our Muhammad SINNED----and which by the way where the connection between Rashad Khalifa and Ahmed comes to play. :-) Ahmed and Rashad Khalifa's followers in their TAFSIIR claim that ""Prophet Mohammed’s prohibiting the lawful from himself(in 66.1) was SIN"---where as---Muslims, unlike Ahmed and Rashad Khalif's followers, believe that this verse:-------"O prophet! why do you forbid(BY TAKING A VOW) for you(YOURSELF O Prophet) what Allah has allowed to you, seeking the goodwill of YOUR WIVES(in your over-fondness or tenderness towards them, O Prophet)"-------and the succeeding verses tell the whole THING-----that----the prophet DID NOT commit SIN and DID NOT DISOBEY Allah. Ahmed keep saying that "Mistakes are sin", but what he does not know is that Allah will not write the mistakes people do through forgetfulness, though ignorance, or through unintentional as *SINS*. For example---if during the fasting day, I ATE something----through unintentionally---through mistakenly---through forgetfulness--or through ignorance of the time of the breaking of the fast---I did NOT commit SIN--------Yes-----I broke the LAW of fasting---which is a SIN----, but I did NOT break my fast or committed SIN!!! This is called QADA-------it is automatically forgiven. Can Ahmed understand this simple explanation? :-) Ahmed said "Moses forgot...the promise...NOT mistaken. He says; “DO NOT TAKE ME TO TASK FOR WHAT I FORGOT” not “WHAT I’D MISTAKEN”." I explained on top that Ahmed does not know that forgetfulness is in of itself a kind of mistake. Ahmed does not know that forgetfulness is an act of neglect which you did unintentionally. !!! :-) Ahmed is saying that since "FORGOT is not a MISTAKES", "MISTAKE is a SIN" But Allah is telling us in His Book that one time prophet Sulayman FORGOT the hour of his prayers to Allah or the prayers were rather delayed by his FOGETFULLNESS. So, let's see Ahmed's logical thinking when he said ""Moses forgot...the promise...NOT mistaken". Allah told us in what prophet Sulayman said when he FORGOT the time of his prayers: "Verily I have loved earthly good above the rememberence of my Lord(the performance of my prayers) until the sun disappeared behind the veil. Bring them(those horses) back to me(Sulayman said to those around him), and(to acknowledge for his momentary negligence, HIS FOGETFULNESS) he set about slashing their legs and necks(slaughtering them as a sacrfice to Allah). And assuredly We tried Sulayman(in another way) and set upon his throne a mere body(on a certain night, when he said he will do something, but FORGOT to add "if Allah Will"--which omission, though no sin in itself, was unworthy of a prophet of Allah). And then was penitent(of that slight negligence or forgetfulness, as befitted a MAN of his deep spiritual holiness). He(Sulayman) said, Lord! forgive me, and bestow me a dominion which no one may obtain besides me. Verily Thou(O Allah) art the Bestower"--Suraltul-Sad 32-35. As you can see that prophet Sulayman was regretting his forgetfulness to miss the prayers in its time---which was no sin---but he asked forgiveness anyway. ! :-) Ahmed said to me "please Umar, don’t say that which you do not know -- Moses wanted to get the knowledge...as Moses(pbuh)! God did not tell him to God to that Man". Well, if I may ask Ahmed---how does he know that "Moses wanted to get the knowledge" and had not been directed by Allah to go to that man? :-) In the verse 64 Allah said that "Muuse said: THAT is exactly what we have been *SEEKING*, then they turned back on their footsteps, retracing" Now, can Ahmed tell us--who(if not Allah) told the prophet Muuse the place they were *seeking* was precisely THAT place which they were to find that holy man---the place they FORGOT their fish which "found its way into the sea freely"? I mean, does Ahmed have special knowledge from Allah that told him "Moses wanted to get the knowledge" and that "God did not tell him to God to that Man" How does Ahmed know that Allah DID NOT direct prophet Muuse to go to that man with the knowledge? :-) Ahmed said "Nor was this wahy...or any Message to mankind" ---I said to Ahmed "this servant had a special knowledge consisted mainly of a pre-vision of the events of this world, and was a different from the Knowledge of Divine truths imparted to Muuse, though by no means superior to it." So, I don't know where Ahmed got from "wahy to mankind". !!! :-) Ahmed said "The Messenger side of the *human* is divine...because it is the staff of God. HOWEVER, the human-side of the Human...is still human, due to mistake." Ahmed does not understand that Muhammad(the messenger) a divine, but the MESSENGER DID AND COULD make mistakes AND COULD forget things-unintentionally, but THAT does do not mean he DID commit SIN or DISOBIDENCE-----NEVERTHELESS, MUHAMMAD WAS AN EXCEPTIONAL HUMAN BEING, PERIOD. :-) Ahmed said "Remember, when God finished making wahy to Moses(pbuh) in one of the early encounters Moses had with God...Moses asked to see God; why did he do that? Hehehe! :)" Why, Ahmed, Why? :-) Ahmed said to me "Also, Umar, I see like the unbelievers...you cannot accept that which is your mind cannot handle. Prophet Muhammad, as recorded in history, would get sweats and change, literally, when receiving Nahwy" Not only can I accept that, I can also accept that the prophet "would get sweats" when he was hot---when he was not even "receiving" anything. :-) But does that make him NOT an EXCEPTIONAL HUMAN BEING OR A SINNER like you and me? :-) Ahmed said to me while talking about our prophet Muhammad this "Like the X-tian, you want him either all-devine...or all-human" Well, I do not want him to be anything Allah didn't make Muhammad, a MAN whom Allah said is in him---CALAA QULI-QIN CADIIM. I am saying that Muhammad(the MAN) did not SIN; did NOT commit disobedience; he was not a SINNER, but a MACSUUM; he was QULI-QIN CADIIM, an EXCEPTOINAL HUMAN BEING unlike Ahmed and Umar. :-) Muhammad did NOT have TWO personalities in ONE, but he was a ONE HUMAN BEING who had NEVER dropped the ball, his responsibility of BEING A MESSENGER and Muhammad, the MAN, NEVER DROPPED "the Staff of God"; Allah. :-) Muslims, unlike Christians and Ahmed along with Rashada Khalifa's followers, do not SEPARATE the MAN(Muhammad) from the MESSAGE. :-) Ahmed said to me "As for the verse, 17.1, once again, you go deep trouble identifying me with Submitters" Both Ahmed and the Submitters--with their own HADEETH--believe that Muhammad in BODY was NOT carried from the Sacred Masjid in Makkah to the distance Masjid. Their HADEETH says that "the prophet's SOUL went up there while his BODY was down on the earth---which accidentlly---the QURAN does not say------So, where did Ahmed get his HADEETH, if not from the Rashad Khalifa's FOLLOWERS? :-) Ahmed asked me this: "You think God is limited to showing *physical*? Well, Allah can do anything He wants-----Allah COULD CARRY Muhammad in BODY alive up to the HEAVENS like Allah did to JESUS------So, Ahmed is the one who is saying it is impossible for Allah to "translated His slave"(BICABDIHI--THE HOLY PROPHET HIMSELF in BODY) from the Sacred Masjid in Makkah to the distance Masjid". :-) Ahmed started again doing his flip flopping. One time he is saying "every messenger is a messenger...but not every messenger is a Prophet!" and in another time he said "every prophet is a messenger". Now, once again----Ahmed is being ask this: If "every prophet is a messenger"---as Ahmed and submitters are saying----and if Allah said Muhammad is KHAATAMA-NABIYIINA(The final and the SEAL OF THE PROPHETS), then Muhammad is both the SEAL OF MESSENGERS AND THE SEAL PROPHETS, right, Ahmed? :-) Let Ahmed answer this, if he will :-)
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| | Unrecorded Date Assalaamu caleykum to those who uphold the quran and sunnah. AHMED. Although I don't want to distract you from the other brothers in the forums, I would really appreciate if you tell me how 1+1=1?. More than one personality speaks of trouble. And if we are to believe Mohammed the sinner(May allah forgive me)+ Muhammad the messenger= The ordinary messenger/prophet, then totaly Islam has no basis. Because a sinner is not qualified to be a messenger of god, an emmissary of peace and love, An example of minkind, A teacher of decency. My god! how can you attribute sinning to a prophet god spoke of his best AKHLAAQ."INNAKA LACALAA KHULUQIN CADIIMIN" or the prophet's sayings "ADDABANII RABBII FA AXSANA TA'DIIBII". AHMED, Don't you know that you don't get the sweetness of the IIMAAN unless you love the prophet more than you love everyone of your freinds,relatives,your father and mother and your wife?. Surely, Your way of learning the religion is questionable. Becasue you talk about asking things people who even don't believe in god or quoting those who insulted god. AHMED ilaahey haku soo hanuuniyo nin yohow.(I feel I lost a brother here). Somali submitter ahna waa ii dhimmanaa. Besides, Christians were being accused of saying 1+1+1=1, And here you are debating about two personalities in one. I see a big connection right there AHMED even we ignore the disgusfulness of your lies about the prophet.
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| | Unrecorded Date Bashir, Ahmed REALLY follows---either his own HADEETH---or----some other person's HADEETH. Ahmed said his HADEETH---which is like the HADEETH the Rashad Khalifa's followers---"makes perfect sense to sincere Muslim that Muhammad(pbuh) was DREAMING" and that Allah did NOT take him to the HEAVENS in PERSON---And that just Muhammad's SOUL went up there. However, when we read the Quran in the same Suratul Isra--verse 60, Allah Subxaana Wa Tacalaa is once again contradicting the HADEETH Ahmed and the Rashad Khalifa's followers have. This verse is talking about the miraculous experience of the night of Al-Isra that our prophet Muhammad had when he went up there: Allah said: "Recall when We said to you(O Muhammad): Your Lord has encompassed mankind(to find out who believes therein and who mocks thereat and rejects). And We MADE NOT THE VISION WHICH WE SHOWED YOU(O Muhammad as an actual eye-witness and not as a DREAM on the night of Al-Isra) but a trail for mankind, and likewise the tree(Zaqqum, mentioned) in the Quran. And We warn them(by Our constant warnings), but it only increases their exorbitance greatly" Hence, we Muslims have our own HADEETH on this issue--along with the Quranic teachings of Allah while Ahmed and the Rashad Khalifa's followers have their OWN HADEETH on this issue about the night of Al-Isra--along with the SAYINGS of Rashad Khalifa that talk about a DREAM he had, the same DREAM---that Ahmad and the Submitters say----our Messenger Muhammad had: This is Rashad Khalifa talking: And notice the SOUL and the BODY. ".....During my Hajj pilgrimage to Mecca, and before sunrise on Tuesday, Zul-Hijjah 3, 1391, December 21, 1971, I, Rashad Khalifa, the *SOUL*, the real person, not the *BODY*, was taken to some place in the universe where I was introduced to all the prophets as God's Messenger of the Covenant. I was not informed of the details and true significance of this event until Ramadan 1408. What I witnessed, in sharp consciousness, was that I was sitting still, while the prophets, one by one, came towards me, looked at my What I witnessed, in sharp consciousness, was that I was sitting still, while the prophets, one by one, came towards me, looked at my face, then nodded their heads. God showed them to me as they had looked in this world, attired in their respective mode of dress. There was an atmosphere of great awe, joy, and respect. Except for Abraham, none of the prophets was identified to me. I knew that all the prophets were there, including Moses, Jesus, Muhamed, Aaron, David, Noah, and the rest. I believe that the reason for revealing Abraham's identity was that I asked about him. I was taken aback by the strong resemblance he had with my own family - myself, my father, my uncles. It was the only time that I wondered, "Who is this prophet who looks like my relatives?" The answer came: "Abraham." No language was spoken. All communication was done mentally. It is noteworthy that the date of this fulfillment of the prophets' covenant was Zul-Hijja 3, 1391............"
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| | Unrecorded Date Salaamu 'aleukum liman tabacal Hudaa, Umar, Deeqa, Bashir Abdi and other muslims, guardians of Sunna of prophet Mohamed(ppuh) keep the good work sister and brothers, I am around but so busy with other topics.
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| | Unrecorded Date Yaska, Can Ahmed say that he does NOT follow and believe HIS own SUNNA and HADEETH or some one other's SUNNA and HADEETH----different than the SUNNA and HADEETH the Muslims follow and believe? I mean----since MOST of WHAT Ahmed says and believes are NOT found in the Quran and MOST of these believes of HIS do NOT agree with WHAT the Muslims believe-----then does not THAT mean-------Ahmed is REALLY following and believing---either HIS own HADEETH and SUNNA----or----some other person's HADEETH and SUNNA? !! :-)
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| | Unrecorded Date I mean---do you see my point and do you smell the CLEAR hypocrisy in Ahmed. He accuses the Muslims believing hadeeth and Sunna----when Ahmed himself is BELIEVING IDOL HADEETH and SUNNA of his own---his own hadeeth/Sunna or someone else’s HADEETH/SUNNA. :-) The wolf in sheep’s clothing is a fitting emblem of the hypocrite in Ahmed-----but the fawning, sneaking, and flattering hypocrite, can’t hide, for-----------Ahmed shows his true colors himself on here and no matter how he tries to hide his leading a double life----pretending to be righteous in the right bath----following ONLY the QURAN----his plunder hits him in HIS face. :-)
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| | Unrecorded Date check this out. http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/focus/0001som.htm
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| | Unrecorded Date UMAR. Brother, If you visit all the submitter pages, you will find exactly what AHMED writes here. The same argument, the same style, the same unfounded logics and the QURAN of RICHARD KHALIFA. The real KHURAAFI is AHMED. All his arguments are based on his twisted vision of religion and what is more disgusting is the way he believes in RASHAD and accuses muslims following the PROPHET. He legalized all the forbidden things in religion for himself and for others in SOMALINET FORUMS. He has no IMAN that connects him to the prophet. Where other muslims immitate the prophet and compete for his following in every way of their life, AHMED chose to disobey him by going even too far as to declare all muslims GAALO if they read SALLIGA in the ATTAXYAAD. If AHMED thinks without the prophet ISLAM works he must devise his own religion and call it JINNI.
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| | Unrecorded Date Bashir, Do you know what Allah said in His Holy Quran when He was addressing His Holy Prophet Muhammad? Allah said to Muhammad to tell the people who like Ahmed and Submitters this: "Shall I (Muhammad) declare to you (O people) upon whom the DEVILS (who according to your malicious suggestion about Muhammad) descend? They descend upon every calumniator(slanderer), SINNER (a description diametrically opposed to Muhammad, his holy, pure, and virtuous life, and exactly fitting his opponents and his slanderers who call Muhammad a SINNER); Who give ear(to the words of the devils), and most of them are LIARS (by nature or by habit--the devils and the people who give ear to the devils)".---Suratul-Shura 221-223.
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| | Unrecorded Date Asalama Alaykum Muslims! Nur, Brother, if God wills, i will post...during the weekend(fri/sat/sun). Umar, Yaa Umar, it seems that you’re either don’t get my points...or that you don’t/can’t understand my bad english...so lets try Somali, shall we? It takes longer to write somali...but it is worth the time if you’ll understand what I will tell you...since you couldn’t, obviously, understand in my bad english. Here it goes; Marka hore, Cumar, aan fahano in *qalad,* *jaahilnimo* iyo *hilmaan* ay kala duwan yihiin. Bal, fadlan, arag; QALAD: Waxaad tiri “qaladka dadka looma qabsado Islaamka dhexdiisa” hadaba...hadii ay taas run tahay -- muxuu Nebiyullahi Ibraahiim, markii uu aabihiis u cafis dalbay...uu intuu Alle ugu noqday u baryay inuu dambigiisa cafiyo(sababtoo ah gaal buu ilaahay u baryay)??? Al yacni, hadiiba ay *qaladaadku* yihiin wax aan dambi ahayn...oo isla markiiba la cafiyo...muxuu Nebiyullahi Eebehiis uga baryay inuu u dambi dhaafo??? Suurada lixdanaad, aayadeeda afaraad...baa si cad meeshaas kuugu sheegaysa. Muxuu ahaa tusaalaha Alle naga siiyay Ibraahiim??? :) JAAHILNIMO: Tan horta waaba mid qur`aanka oo dhan ka buuxda; waxaase, si FIICAN, Alle ugu bixinayaa suurada afaraad, aayadeeda todobo-iyo-tobnaad. Arag, sida Alle u lee yahay “toobada waxaa laga aqbalayaa kuwa danbiyada sameeyay jahli aawadii...oo hadana ka noqda.” HADABA, Cumaroow, hadiiba Alle lee yahay *dambiyada sameeya jahli aawadii* -- see ku dhehi kartaa *jahli* aawadii waxaad u sameeyso ma`ahan wax laguu qabsanayo? Ama jahli aawadii u samee...ama ha u sameyn, danbiyadu waa dambiyaal -- Alle kuwa u noqda oo ka toobad aqbalana, Alle wuu cafiyaa. HILMAAN: Tan qalad ma`ahan...jaahilnimona ma`ahan. Waa wax dhaca...oo qofka bini aadamka ahi uusan wax ka dhihi karin. Sidaas baa waxaa naloogu yeelay in hadii aan wax iloowno, aan sameeyno ISLA marka aan xasuusano. Taas waxay ku tusaysaa...in *waad iloowday* aan wixii lagaaga cafinayn. Dambi ma`aadan gelin, laakiin hadii aadan wixii sameyn marka aad xasuusato, dambi bay kugu noqonaysaa. Mida kale, anga waxaan ka hadlaynay *QALAD* qalad iyo hilmaana...isku mid ma`ahan. Intaynaan u gudbin wax kale, fadlan...bal intaas inaad fahantay iyo inaadan fahmin bal isoo kale sheeg! Cumorow, soomali waxay ku maah-maahdaa; “war jiraaba...cakaaruu iman” I’m hypocrite now? I’m not one who is trying to be someone he is not...that bothers you. It always bothers you. Likewise, there should be a saying; “the wolf who tries the sheep’s clothing...always ends up eating itself” TRULY, my friend, I could write a book on that subject...based on the experience I had with this phrase! :) Let me tell yah, a story; I once had a *fried*...who tried to be someone he was not. Truly, he even fooled me, NOT to mention his old friends. However, this particular friend used to tell me that it was I who wore a sheep’s clothing...while I was a wolf. Hahah! Needless to say, not only me...but also his old friends proved time and time again, that it was HE...who wore sheep’s clothing while HE was the wolf. NOT only did he try to eat everyone around him, he disrupted his mentality...and had his living room taken away from him -- because he was mentally unstable to run his own house! He still cookes and cleans the house, however, he is not stable anymore to have decisions...for nutties cannot make decisions. He woofs and aahs as so many different personalities(multiple-personality???hahah)...but as always, others could identify him as the wolf. `Cause no matter how wolf tries to wear others’ clothes, it still walks and gaufs like a wolf. Remember the story of the hadith? Where Prophet Muhammad walked over hell and saw people who are scratching themselves to death? remember what Gabriel said when he answered to his question? YUP, that friend was like that...always punishing himself for his own mistakes over and over. SADLY, I still pitty him. Gues why that *particular* friend used to call me that? Because I could never be in his party...nor the others that opposed him; and it nearly killed him...that I could STAND on my own two feets...without anyone else’ views or ideas. As Abba sang; “the history book on the shelf is always repeating itself” --- but does it, really? :-)) Sidoo kale, wiiga dhamaadkiisaa si fiican maqaal kuugu soo qorayaa! Hayga dhiman intaas!(God forbid!) Peace and Love to all Muslims, Ahmad!
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| | Unrecorded Date Should I translate in Somali for Ahmed this simple example that talks about-----the mistakes people do---through forgetfulness, though ignorance, or through unintentional----is called QADA---For example---if during the fasting day, I ATE something----through *unintentionally*---through *mistakenly*---through *forgetfulness*--or through *ignorance* of the time of the breaking of the fast---I did NOT commit SIN--------Yes-----I broke the LAW of fasting---which is a SIN IF DONE INTENTIONALLY----, but I did NOT break my fast nor committed a SIN!!! This is called QADA-------it is automatically forgiven. ???? Can Ahmed understand this simple explanation---or----FAR WAA-WAYN BAAN UGU QORAA WAX? :-) Ahmed says *FORGET* is not *SIN*, but *MISTAKE* is a *SIN* !!! I explained to Ahmed forgetfulness is in of itself is a kind of a mistake. In Webster's dictionary, FORGET is defined as an act(a MISTAKE) done unintentionally. When things are done unintentionally, error or mistake happens. Thus, "to omit or neglect unintentioanlly" a thing is kind of a MISTAKE.!!! For example, "I forgot to lock the gate" then a *mistake* or an *error* happened. Can Ahmed see this? :-) What caused me to *err or mistake*---my forgetfullnes---through forgetfullness QALAD can happend.....therefore, also through JAAHILNIMO QALAD can happen and throught HILMAAN MISTAKES OR QALAD can happend.!!! I mean, can Ahmed tell us which one came first the HILMAAN or the QALAD....or...the JAALILNIMO or the QALAD....or the QALAD OR HILMAANTA/JAAHILMINADA? :-) or is this the case of which one came first-----*the chicken or the egg*?. :-) I'll tell you what?-----it is not about that---this is the usual SMOKE SCREAM that Ahmad creats when he is in trouble. The BIG PICTURE Ahmed does not want to be seen is this: HIS OWN HYPOCRISY. :-) Ahmed said "It takes longer to write somali...but it is worth the time if you’ll understand what I will tell you". If Ahmed had the *time* to write something, why did he have to go through with all the usual *smoke scream* of his and instead just address the point of his hypocrisy? I'll tell you why---------Ahmed was caught in-red-handed using a HADEETH of his OWN. Ahmed has been blamming and protesting and saying that Muslims follow IDOL HADEETH, but Ahmad's OWN IDOL HADEETH that he presented on here is a PLUNDER that hits him in HIS face---this is what I meant when I wrote: "The wolf in sheep’s clothing is a fitting emblem of the hypocrite in Ahmed", and this is what Ahmed is avoiding and affraid to admit and address it. And so he creats *smoke screams*. I would rather deal with a WOLF who is NOT in SHEEPS' clothing THAN a pretended fellow who is afraid to admit his HYPOCRISY. :-) Ahmed does not want to acknowledge that he has his OWN IDOL HADEETH that talks about a DREAM the Prophet Muhammad had------which the QURAN does not say. ! Ahmed's HADEETH says that ONLY the SOUL of Muhammad went from the EARTH upto the HEAVENS and CAME BACK in the same night! Ahmed's HADEETH and the Rashad Khalif's HADEETH say that the NIGHT OF ISRA never HAPPENDED in REAL LIVE expereince in the BODY of Muhammad---while rest of the MUSLIMS believe that Muhammad experienced The MIRACULOUS JOURNEY in BODY and SOUL------and that Muhammad was not DREAMING.
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| | Unrecorded Date Axmad wuxuu igu yiri "Waxaad tiri “qaladka dadka looma qabsado Islaamka dhexdiisa” hadaba...hadii ay taas run tahay -- muxuu Nebiyullahi Ibraahiim, markii uu aabihiis u cafis dalbay...uu intuu Alle ugu noqday u baryay inuu dambigiisa cafiyo(sababtoo ah gaal buu ilaahay u baryay)??? Al yacni, hadiiba ay *qaladaadku* yihiin wax aan dambi ahayn...oo isla markiiba la cafiyo...muxuu Nebiyullahi Eebehiis uga baryay inuu u dambi dhaafo??? Suurada lixdanaad, aayadeeda afaraad...baa si cad meeshaas kuugu sheegaysa. Muxuu ahaa tusaalaha Alle naga siiyay Ibraahiim??? :) " Nabi Ibraahim dambi(SIN) ma galin. Aabihiisna QALAD(MISTAKE) kuma jirin ee DAMBI(SIN) ayuu ku jirey oo xagiisa QALAD(MISTAKE) uusan u arkin---xataa markii uu wiilkiisa dacwo siiyey. :-) Axmad wuxuu igu yiri "Cumaroow, hadiiba Alle lee yahay *dambiyada sameeya jahli aawadii* -- see ku dhehi kartaa *jahli* aawadii waxaad u sameeyso ma`ahan wax laguu qabsanayo? " Axmad wuxuu isku qal-daayaa wax lagu sameeyey jaahilnimo oo aan laga soo noqon oo lagu adkaysto markii qofka laga jaahil bixiyo iyo waxa lagu sameeyo jaahilnimo oo laga soo noqdo markii laga jaahilbixiyo qofka. Mathalan: haddii aan anigoo soo-man aan wax cuney waqtiga oo iga QALDANAA awgiis oo aanan ogayn jaahilnimo daraadeed waqtiga la afuro----ka dibna la iga jaahil bixiyey in waqtiga la afuro uu wali yahay. Markii la iga jaahil bixiyey arinkaan oo aanan ogayn jaahilnimo awgiis, mardambe waxba ma cunin oo waan sugey waqtiga afurka---wax dambi(SIN) ma galin soonkana ma iga furmin. :-) The verse Ahmed cited reads this way: "Allah accepts ONLY the repentance of those--(1-enlightement of the heart--2--detestation of the wrong-doing--3--a resolve to avoid it in the future--4--an earnest crying for Allah's forgiveness)--who do an evil in ignorance(sins committed in moment of forgetfulness, ignorance and unintentionally; without clear consciousness of guilt) and then repent soon afterwards(as soon as they found out that they were doing something they are not suppose to do); surely its they to whom Allah shall relent(in mercy). And Allah is Knowing(so He knows who did what intentionally and unintentionally and sincere), Wise(so Allah decides in accordance with His knowledge whose intention was right or wrong). INAMA'L A'C-MAALU-BINI-YAA. Ahmed does not know that in Islam, it is the intention of the heart that counts in the side of Allah. :-)
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| | Unrecorded Date Asalama Alaykum Muslims! Umar, Please, don't flatter yourself...and please, don't disrupt your opportunity to debate with me by personal attacking me. I don't need to be a wolf of any kind for anyone...because i'm truly happy of who i'm and what I believe. I have had with Carleone, truly. However, lets just stick with this, shall we? WITHOUT personally attacking anyone...or you can join the gang who will not hear from me...no matter how much they sweeten or soar themselves for they burned themselves in the fire beforehand. I do NOT need to be hypocrite of anykind. And because I don't believe some hadiths are not true, that doesn't mean I think hadiths or believing in hadiths are idol; I don't. Hadiths are corrupted, however, there are many many many hadiths in the hadith books that are origionally said by Prophet Muhammad(pbuh). NOW, it seems you either don't speak in somali...or you once again didn't get my brief message. DID I tell you that Abraham's father was in mistake? Did I tell you that God forgave him? NO! I told you that Abraham made a mistake...and he returned to the Lord. NOT because he forgot but because he made the mistake. AND, since you're bringing dictionaries...lets see what exactly the dictionary says; MISTAKE: 1; an error or fault. 2; a misconception or misunderstanding. FORGET: 1; to be unable to remember or call to mind. 2; to treat with inattention; neglect. 3; to fail to become aware at the proper moment. IGNORANT: 1; lacking education or knowledge. 2; showing a lack of education or knowledge. 3; unaware or uninformed. That is from one of the most trusted dictionaries of all time; The American Heritage concise dictionary. I miss where those three things have the same meaning that they can be explained with; "mistakes, ignorances, and forgetfulness...are" I MISS IT! An *error or fault* cannot be forgetfulness...it is an error or fault. You don't err or fault by lack of inattention, Umar. That cannot be so. IN your example; if you were fasting...and broke your fast due to time-confussion...it's NOT forgetfulness or ignorance. It is mistake. It is YOUR job to know when to break your fast...but if you had mistaken and ask God to forgive you...God forgives you, if you're sincere. HOWEVER, if you ate...out of forgetfulness; this is not mistake...but you suddenly became unaware that you were fasting. LIKEWISE, if you didn't know that this is the Month of Ramadan(non-muslim) it is because of ignorance. It is not forgetfulness or mistake. Also, Umar, don't yah think I don't need NOTES in the verses to help me see what the verse means? I'm not one who thinks that the Qur`an is so hard to understand...so you can just omit your notes from the verses that you quote to me. I don't need it. I have the Qur`an...and I understand it without any help of others. AND, when and if I mistake, let it be my own mistake. TRULY, the verses that you quote to me are baseless if they have more than one note -- since it gives the verse's meaning according to the translater's understanding of it...and I came to know that some translaters cannot understand the Qur`an due to their belief that the Qur`an is a hard book that needs explaining. SO, if you want your verses to have base in the discussion(on my side)...you can take the notes out when you quote...and if the quote itself has mistakes, i will let you know(and others as well!) NOW, you have so many little comments in your posts for this week that need their attention given, however, I want you to either understand or not understand the differences between these three words...and then we can move foreward. My time is limited...and I don't want to discuss carleone or his motives. ...anyway, let me know if you understand the difference between those three...and that they ARE NOT the same. Then, God willing, we'll move forward with other discussions that you brought...during the weekend. Peace and love to all Muslims, -Ahmad!
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| | Unrecorded Date Ahmed ask me this "please, don't disrupt your opportunity to debate with me by personal attacking me." First of all, I'm not attacking Ahmed, personally. I'm attacking the points Ahmed is making and the way he does it. No personaly attacks from me. :-) Secondly, why does Ahmed think I'm using the thirth person when I'm addressing him? I do not care if Ahmed debates with me or not; my intention is to point out Ahmed’s discrepancies and where I see the clear hypocrisy in his writings--that is all. This place is a public forums; Ahmed has the right to runway from the tough questions towards his comments or he can choose to ignore my comments about his writings if he wants to; it is not like Ahmed and I communicating with each other through private email. I'm still going to point out Ahmed's discrepancies---whenever the opportunity presents itself. :-) Ahmed says "I do NOT need to be hypocrite of anykind. And because I don't believe some hadiths are not true, that doesn't mean I think hadiths or believing in hadiths are idol." But the HADEETH Ahmed believes is NOT one of the ones found "in the hadith books that are originally said by prophet Muhammad(pbuh)" nor is it something that can be found in the QURAN-------so, where did Ahmed get his IDOL HADEETH, if not from the Rashad Khalifa's FOLLOWERS? :-) Ahmed said "I told you that Abraham made a mistake...and he returned to the Lord. NOT because he forgot but because he made the mistake" But Ahmed have not understood what I've been telling him.! I told him that---"Nabi Ibraahim dambi(SIN) ma galin"----which means the reason Ibraahim "returned to the Lord" was not a *SIN*-it's the submission of the prophets to accept what Allah tells them---it is their job always return to Their Lord willingly and without a question. In that verse------Ibraahim's saying to his father was NOT a SIN as ahmed is trying to sell us---since he believes MISTAKES ARE SINS. Allah explains in another Sura(Suratul-Tooba-114) that talks about the same incident this is way: "And Ibrahim's asking for the FOGIVENESS of his father-(by disposing his heart to the acceptance of Islam)- was ONLY in pursuance of a PROMISE which he had made to him-(Ibraahim could not have with confidence foreseen the final state of his father). Then, when it became clear to him-(through Allah's revelation)-that he(the father) was an enemy of Allah-(and had died as such)-, he(Ibraahim) declared himself quit of him-(and desisted from praying for his father)-. Verily Ibrahim was long-suffering, forbearing-(and this accounts for his promise to his pagan father). Allah is not one to lead a people astray-(and to consider them guilty)-after He has guided them until He makes clear to them as to what they should guard against-(this verse was revealed to assuage the misgiving of those Muslims who had prayed for the infidels before such prayer was forbidden---here they are told in effect that a SIN is a SIN *ONLY* when an act is consciously committed against a known law, and that there is no meaning in reckoning as SIN an act that has not yet been forbidden. Muslims, therefore, were guilty of NO SIN--like IBRAHIM--when they prayed for the infidel dead before such prayer was declared SINFUL) Such is the QURAN of Allah-----It explains Itself and the QURAN contradicts and goes against those whose desire is to mislead people and when it suits their evil suggestion against the prophets of Allah.! :-) Prophet Ibrahim did not commit SIN----whenever prophet's of Allah are told something they did--a mistake---or forgetful---and Allah shows them the correct way of doing things----as MEN of Allah---they automatically seek Allah's forgiveness----this case--when Ibrahiim said he SHALL seek forgiveness FOR HIS FATHER by imploring Allah to incline Ibrahim's father's heart to the true faith--was not a sin in the part of Ibrahiim---if Ahmed things Prophet Ibrahim made a MISTAKE and since Ahmed believes MISTAKES are SINS....Ibraahim did not SIN. :-) Ahmed said to me "if you were fasting...and broke your fast due to time-confusion...it's NOT forgetfulness or ignorance" Who said it was "forgetfulness? Ahmed said "It is mistake." Well, although a mistake done unintentional is not sin, it was not a mistake. However, let's say that the "time-confusion" was a *mistake* in my part------still I didn't commit sin nor did I break my fast! :-) Ahmed said that MISTAKE is SIN---BUT---FORGET is not SIN. Ahmed said his dictionary wrote: "MISTAKE: 1; an error or fault. 2; a misconception or misunderstanding." My dictionary--Random House Webster's College Dictionary--wrote: MISTAKES happed. 1-"insufficient knowledge"--2--"a misunderstanding or misconception"--4--"to understand, interpret, or evaluate wrongly". FORGET: 1-"to say or do something improper"--2--"to cease or omit to think of something"--3--"heedless, neglectful" Now, when talking about the "time-confusion", Ahmed said to me "It is YOUR job to know when to break your fast" Well, if Ahmad broke his fast through FOGERFULNESS, isn't it HIS "job" to THINK or TAKE NOTES since his mind FAILED him and that he failed to THINK and failed to TAKE NOTE about the RAMADAN and it's rules and regulations? :-) Ahmed said to me "you have so many little comments in your posts for this week that need their attention given" I hope that Ahmed addresses these "little comments"----especially----it'll be good if he tells us where did Ahmed get his IDOL HADEETH that says about---ONLY the SOUL of Muhammad went up there while BODY was down on earth--while Muhammad was DREAMING, if not from the Rashad Khalifa's FOLLOWERS? :-)
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| | Unrecorded Date AHMED. You need to grow up. And as long you open a discussion in which you transmit your submitter views, we will declare war on you. When you ran out your copies from the submitter pages, you complain about people attacking you. Make it easy for you and stop the stupid subjects you post and we will mind our own bussiness.
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| | Unrecorded Date Waxan jaclaan laha in doodaan socoto. Nina yuu ka daalin. Waxayaalo badan baa laga faaideysan karaa sida meeshaan wax uga sodaan. Waxaan arkey marwalba oon bogaan imaado quraankana waa i agyaalaa!!! Waxaan u malynaayaa in aad religoius iga dhigteen maxaa yeeleey hadda ka hor quraanka sidan uma akhirin jirin (smile) Kuligiin waa fiican tihiin. Ninka meeshaan bilaabey inkasta aan wax ku raacsanyan waa fiican yahay maxaa yeeley markasta uu bog bilaabo quraanka in lala soo boodo waaye oo la aqriyo (smile). Ninmanka la doodaayana waa fiican yihiin oo quraanka iyo xadiska wax waa ka yaqaanin si fiicana wax waa uga jawaabi karaan. Ninkaan meesha fureyna waa waxa loogu yeero in the english (( blessing in disguise)) maxaa yeeley dadka isiga la doodaayo waxba ma furaan inkasta oo diinta yaqaaniin diina ma ka hadli la haayeen haddi uu ninkaan marwalba topic diinta ka hadlaayo uu furi lahayn. sida kaliya ay diinta uga hadli lahaayeen waa in uu ninkaan wax ka sheegaa diinta!!! soomaalida inta isku timaado badan kooda diin ma yaqaanan marka haddii ninkaan uu marwalba ka hadlo diinta oo ay maqaaladiisa xiiso leehihiin oo nimankaan diinta bartey ay la doodaan waa wax fiican sida aan aniga qobo. please keep doinig you debates waxbaan ka baranaynaa ee. ha joojina ee wada dooda.
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| | Unrecorded Date salaamu calaykum waraxmatulaahi wabarakaatu To: Sis Caaliya bacda salaam yaa ukhti caaliya horta ilaahay ayaa mahadleh hadii doodahaani kugu soo dhoweeyeen diinta ilaahayna tii sifiican u sii barata oo ku tamasukta hakaa dhigo, anagana kuwii aan siideen ha naga dhigo aamiin wiilasha u doodaya diintana ilaahay miisaanka xasanadka ha ugu daro aamiin, Yaa ukhtii caziiza wiilka dooda furaa uma furo kala faa'idaysi iyo in uu umada wax u faa'ideeyo ee waxa uu u furaa isaga oo attack ku sameenaya diinta Islaamka iyo Nebigiiba iyo sidoo kale Saxabadiiba sidoo kale walaal waxa uu mawadiicdan u soo geliyaa ama uu dadaalkiisu yahay in u dadka aan diinta wax saasa ka aqoon geliyo shaki iyo khalkhal ah dhinaca diinta marka walaashayey kani ku kaa mudan ma aha amaane ilaahay hana cafiyo adigana haku cafiyo ilaahayna iimaanka ha inoo sugo aamiin wasalaamu caalykum waraxmatulaahi wabarakaatu ukhtag filimaan Yaasmiin
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| | Unrecorded Date Salaamu Calaykum Yaa ikhwati Filcaqiida; Umar, Ma shaki in uu iiga jiro ayaad u malaynaysaa, in Ahmad-Gaal khuraafad iyo Madiiddo la soo qoroqoray in uu laabta ku haysto. Hadii uu xadiista Rasuulka(s.c.w) raacayo ma halkan bayno joogi lahayn. Qur'aan Dhurwaaga uu akhrinayo sow wax dad u soo alifeen ma aha. Ali Binu-Abi Daalib (r.c) wuxuu odhan jiray: "Hadii diintu Logic ahaan lahayd, Khufaynka xagga hoose halaga masaxo ayaa la odhan lahaa" ilayn iyadaa wasakhowdee. American Dictionary ayaan ku fasirayaa Classical Arabic term, maxsuulka ka soo baxa ayaan Qur'aanka Kariimka ku fahmaya, isla markaana Naxwaha Soomaliga ayaan ku dabaqayaa.... Bal adigu Logic-ga noocaas ah meel u saar? Bashir Abdi, Ma kuula muuqataa in doonta aan saaranahay ay xagaa iyo Cilmul-Kalaam iyo Falsafadihii Yuunaanka inoola kacday? Mase kuu muuqataa in ayno ku sii siqayno in Qur'aanka eebe la Falsafadeeyo? Waaban Yaabanahaye.. Ahmad-Gaal iminkana wuxuu la shir yimid in uu "Sharxo" with sytle as usually...Waxyaabaha uu Ilaahay daalacdo iyo Criteria loo baahan yahay in la buuxiyo si danbiyadda loo qoro ama loo cafiyo? iyo walib Qaabka uu Ilaahay u fakiro?????? CAALIYA, Marka aan dib u jaleecno Qaabka waxbaridda ee Islaamka, Waligeed Taariikhda laguma sheegin in Muslimiintu wax ku barijireen dadka DOOD iyo Shaki galin, dadka laga shaki galinayo Diintoodda si ay wax u bartaan. Diinta Islaamkuna waxba ugama ay tagin cadaynta ay cadaysay Nidaamka Waxbaridda ee bulshadda, waxay ukala qaybisay BARE iyo BARTE. Ilaahay subxaanahu watacaa wuxuu faray kuwa jecel in ay wax ogaadaan "Fas-aluu ahla Digra, In-kum-tum laa taclamuun" -Weydiiya kuma Yaqaana cilmiga, hadaydaan idinku aqoon. Dhankale Mabaadidda Islaamka ee uu islaamka ku dul wareego waxaa ka mid "Al-amru bil-macruuf, Wa-nahyi canil-munkar" In Xumaanta aad reebtid, Wanaagana aad Fartid.. Waa howl u taal qofka ilaahay cilmi siiyey, ee markaa khusaysa arintaas ha yaraato ama ha waynaato...Bulshadda Islaamka oo dhan ayaa howhaas qabata. Nicmooyinka Ilaahay dadka ku nicmaystay, waxay mudan yihiin in Ilaahay looga shugriyo, Nimco kastaan shugrigeedda waxay tahay in laga sadeqeeyo, Hadaba sadaqadda Cilmigu waa in aad "Dadka bartid", Baridda dadka la baraa cilmigu kuma Nusqaamo ee wuu ku siyaadaa, waa hadaladdi Imamkii Jaliilka ahaa Xasanul Basri. Waa maxay farqiga u dhexeeya Baridda diinta Islaamka iyo Weeraridda ama Cayda iyo Duminta diinta Islaamka? maxaa diin barid ah maxaase Diin Dumis iyo Weerer ah? Ma Ahmad-Gaal oo dad diin baraya ayad aragtay?waxaan u malaynayaa in arinkiisu iskugu biyo shubtay.. Maxay ku noogtaa, Maxayse ka nuugtaa.
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| | Unrecorded Date Yaska iyo walaalaha kale ASALAAMU CALEYKUM. AHMED said"I'm not one who thinks that the Qur`an is so hard to understand...so you can just omit your notes from the verses that you quote to me. I don't need it. I have the Qur`an...and I understand it without any help of others. AND, when and if I mistake, let it be my own mistake". In this case AHMED is sayimg He can understand the QURAN and ALLAH says IN THE QURAN: "It is he who has sent down to you(mohammed) the book(the quran). In it are verses that are entirely clear, they are the foundations of the book and others not entirely clear. So as for those in whose hearts there is deviation(from the truth) they follow that which is not entirely clear thereof,seeking alfitnah(polytheism and trials etc),and seeking for its hidden meanings, but none knows its hidden meanings save ALLAH. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say:"We beleive in it, the whole of it(clear and unclear verses) are from our lord." And none receive admonition except men of understanding."Alcimra:7 Allah is saying none knows the meaning of the unclear verses AND AHMED SUBMITTER IS SAYING HE KNOWS ALL and doesn't need help. AHMED is a lier and an ignorant who does not know he was lied to. He is so dug in submitter garbage that he believes he can ignore the QURAN's teachings and go against it all the time. Compare AHMED'S saying that he understands all the quran and THE VERSES OF ALLAH THAT TELL US the quran both contains understandable and non understandable verses. suit yourselves. Also the verses of INHERITANCE need the prophets clarification and I wonder if MR KNOW ALL SUBMITTER can answer one of them. Just one of them. AXMED ceebtaada maad isaga xarootid meesha. Sidaan kuu maleyn jirey matihid. Meesha dhoobaad dhex fadhidaa. I know this, I know that, I don't need this, I don't need that, Toban jirrona waxaas kuma hadlaan. Yaska. Walaalkiis si fiican baan u aqrin doonaa qoraalkaaga haddii eebbe idmo. waslaamu caleykum.
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| | Unrecorded Date Yaasmiin iyo Yaska walaalayaal ma dhihin ninkaan meesha furey iyo meelaha kale uu furey markii uu ka hadlaayo islaamka in ay u jeedadiisa tahay in uu wax baro dadka. ee waxaan iri ninkaan waa in aa loo arag totally good for the religion. maxaa yeeley ninmanka kale ee la dooda ama ka soo horjeesta isaga iyo waxyaalaha uu halkan wax ku qoro they set the record straight. aniga shaki iigama jiro in nabiga la raacdo. aniga waxaan leeyahay ninkaan waa nin ah (( blessing in disguise)) oo micnaheeda ah dad badan oo soomaaliyeed oo aan aniga ku jiro ayuu ku dhiiri galinaayaa in ay diinta bartaan si kasta ujeedadiisa ha ahaatee. dadka isaga la doodaayo fikradahooda iyo isaga markii la isku barbar dhigo oo qof aniga oo kale akhristo wax waa ka faa iideysanaa yaa maxaa yeeley ishaa ma calin ah oo quraanka halkaan lagu soo qoro waan haystaa. Ilaaheey works mysteriously. sometimes Ilaahey uses dad iyo waxyaalo kale oo diinta shaqo ku lahayn ama ka soo horjeeda si uu u siiyo hidaayo. hadda ka hor baan waxaan maqley qiso ku dhacdey nin aalkuliiste ahaan jirey oo qamro la cabi jirey niman gaalo ah. gaalada diinta islaamka ayay cayi jireey ninka soomaliga oo aalkuliista ha ahaa. laakiin ninkii aalkuliistaha ahaa waa uu xanaaqi jirey oo uu la dagaali jirey nimanka gaalada ah oo diinta islaamka wax ka sheegi jirey. ninkii waa la xirey oo jeel baa la gashey. kadib ninka soomaaliga ahaa waa uu fakirey oo uu ku fakirey sababta jeelka keentey in ay tahay diin jacayl laakiin ma is ogayn. kadib ninkii tukasho ayuu bilaabay qamradiina waa iska daayey. it was a (( blessing in disguise)). sidaas darteed waxa halkaan lagu hayo ma aha wax xun. aniga dhiro gal baa igu dhaca markii wax laga sheego diinta inkasta oo aan saas wax uga garaneyn. hadeer markii aan akhristey halaan ama meelo kale oo islaaamka looga doodaayo waxay igu kaliftey in aan quraanka akhristo maxaayeeley ninkaan iyo dadka la doodaayo quraan ayay halkaan wax ku soo qoraan.
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| | Unrecorded Date WAAN KU RAACSANAHAY CAALIYA HADALKEEDA IN UU ILAAHAY ISTICMAALO DAD XUN IYO DAD FIICAN IYO WAX XUN IYO WAX FIICANBA SI UU QOF UGU HAGAAJIYO DIINTIISA. I LIKE THE STORY OF THE ALCAHOLIC SOMALI GUY. I AGREE WITH YOU CAALIYA TOO THAT AHMAD IS A BLESSING IN DISGUISE JUST AS THE SOMALI PERSON'S DINKING BUDIES WERE. YOU KNOW WHO IS NOT BLESSING IN DISGUISE? THEY ARE BROTHER NUR, UMAR AND OTHERS. THEY ARE OPEN BLESSINGS. ANY OF YOU BROTHERS MARRIED? I LIKE A KNOWLEDGABLE BROTHER IN DIIN AND IN WORLDLY MATTERS. I DO NOT LIKE A BROTHER WHO LEARNED WORLDLY MATTERS ONLY HADDII XATAA UU YAHAY PH.D HOLDER AND I DO NOT LIKE A BROTHER WHO LEARN THE DIIN ONLY.
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| | Unrecorded Date Salaamu Caleykum to my fellow muslimeen. Umar, Nur, Bashir Abdi, Yaska & Yasmiin Brothers/sister keep the good work! Rabbi ha idinka abaal mariyo dadaalkiina & jeceelkiina difaaca Diinta Alle. Axmed, waxaa lagu yaqaan "by his one-way communication method". Mar dhow waadun arki asaga oo 90 degree is-jaray weji kalena u yeelay jewiga meesha & weliba by starting to attack poeple. To. CAALIYA Sista, markaad tiri: "blessing in disguise", si waan kuugu raacsanahay, balse negative-keeda & fitnadeeda ayeey leedahayoo waxuu Axmed fidneyn karaa dadka qaarkii. Waxaan Illaaheey kaaga baryayaa inuu quraanka ku jecleysiiyo kuna baro diintiisa. Ogoow: "Qofkii Alle kheyr la doono, wuxuu jecleysiiyaa (waafajiyaa)Diinkiisa". Aakhirana waa la is weydiinayaa. To: sista (single-lady-in-search-of-good-muslim-man-in-marriage) May Allah (swt) help you to get the man of your dream. The One and the Only in the most halal way. W/salaam Ansaari
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| | Unrecorded Date Caaliyah & single lady and all brothers assalaamu caleykum. One time CAALIM said in his book of TAFHIIMUL QURAN; "...but all that you may do to understand the Quran is not enough. If you want to identify with the spirit of the Quran, you must practically involve [yourself] with the struggle to fulfill the mission. For the Quran is not a book of abstract theories and cold ideas, which one can grasp while seated in a cosy arm chair. Nor is it merely a religious book like other religious books, whose meanings can be grasped in seminaries and oratories." In this piece, ABUL ALAA MAWDUDI tells us, if you need to understand the quran you must get involved with it and try your best to follow it and not merely rely on small topics or in our case its degradation and insult. The quran is completely different from other books of faith which you can learn just attending seminars as MAWDUDI said or reading it for yourself like you can do to the bible. All you need SISTERS to do is go to the appropriate places and start learning it. Everytime I visit myself here, I see the need of memorizing the quran. Because it would help me grasp the evidences I need more easily and appropriately. Everyone of us has his own experience from this arguments. However, with little knowledge, it will be very dangerous and very likely that some of us might think what AHMED IS TRYING TO SELL IS TRUE. All I want to say is be careful and go to the appropriate places you can get XALAAL EDUCATION. Inta ka horeysa, meeshaan qatarteydey leedahay.
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| | Unrecorded Date Bashir, yaska, Umar and Ansaari Jazakalaahu kheyran. Walaal Ilaahey ha idin ka abaar mariyo dadaalkiina. Alxamdullilah Ilaahey cilmiga idin siiyey ayey mahadi usugnaatey. Axmed wax kale ku oran maayo oon ahey, Ilaahey ha ku soo hanuuniyo,isaga Qaadiro Rahmaan ahee.
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| | Unrecorded Date Asalama Alaykum Muslims! Nur, IF I remember, correctly, when I said; “your posts have a lot of stuff that itself opens doors to other discussions” I was reffering to the people who deviated from THIS discussion. We’re still discussing this discussion...so, obviously, that cannot apply to you. So, that is that. Now, MY POINT in saying that “every other thing that is bad must have also” was that since we’re saying some *things* begin with some people...why not other things, as well? The thing is, Nur, I don’t believe things begin with *one* -- can we say “had it not been for Iblis, no creations would EVER go astray”??? This is because...the later people have nothing to do with him...they have the CHOICE to refuse it or accept it, even though he is their evident enemy. Saying; “had it not been for Eve,” says that if she didn’t do it...NO ONE else would. Thus, that cannot be correct. Every evil was known to them...as it is known to us, too. YET, if they did it...it cannot be because they *started it*. When Adam and Eve falled from heaven, they KNEW it was against God’s orders to eat the Tree. It was not something that someone before them had done...for them to have done it later. You see what i’m saying? “HAD IT NOT BEEN FOR EVE...” cannot be just -- since it teaches...SHE STARTED IT(the unfaithfulness and betrayel against husband). Now, here comes the science bit, the hadith says; ‘had it not been for eve, no women would...” *NO WOMEN would dare do that...had it not been for Eve,* it says -- between the lines. So, if not blaming Eve...why MENTION her in this despicable acts??? What does she have to do with the future women’s choice of WILLING? “NO WOMAN WOULD” it says, Nur. Thus, it is like -- women wouldn’t do it...had not Eve done it; BLAMING point blank. And Islam does not blame the weaknesses of the humans. When God forgives them, that is that -- Islam will not hold anything against them. Do you EVER hear in the Quran; “HAD it not been for your parents, none of you would enter hell”??? It is exactly the same. Thus, the righeous Prophet could NOT say such thing. The hadith doesn’t say; “unfaithfulness and betrayal...on the women’s side against husband -- was first done by Eve, as human” had it said that, I would not have problem with it, even though not really believe it(since it is not mentioned in the Qur`an)! However, if it is said; “HAD it not been for Eve, no would would ever betray her husband” I surely have much problem with that...since God didn’t put this on the women gene to be inherited from Eve. This says...BECAUSE OF HER, WOMEN BETRAY AND DO UNFAITHFUL ACTS. This is a copy of the X-tians’ saying; “BECAUSE OF HER, MAN MUST DIE!” Women’s rights? EXCUSE ME, but why does God say; “righteous men and righteous women” and then says “evil men and evil women” --- this is because Islam gives Women the rights they deserve. So, don’t be so ticky about me and women rights. You think this is irrelevant??? Where have you been for the last 3000 years? Gimme a break! People impured women, and then comes the Qur`an and purifies women...then they come back and impure women, in another(ANOTHER) Book; hahaha...NO, NO, and 1000 times NO! Where have you been when somebody wrote in a *SAHIH* book that the most of hell’s community are women? Where have you been when in a *SAHIH* book has a woman had put every material that her husband used(including his wadu vesell...and a stick he can beat her with) on her body and walked around ALL-DAY untill he comes home. And, that was the first woman to go to HEAVEN!!! HAHAHAAHAH! That she even went to heaven before Fatimah-Zahra??? What does that illustrate to women, at large? *UNLESS you are slave to your husband, you cannot attain righteousness.* And, Nur, the curse on God is upon those who attribute lies to God and His Prophets. And, you say it’s *irrelevant*??? YES, I had a Jewish woman, too...who TRULY told me; “Ahmad, why make such a big anti-women thing out of it” when I debated with Jews who believe EVE is the blame of every man’s sin. And, yes, that too must have been irrelevant, I guess -- what a world. You were referring me to Deeqa’s *justifications* -- what, do you think the wicked thing agains women would continue through the centuries had women stood up for themselves? Had it been men, it would END long ago. Somaali baa waxay ku maahmaahdaa; “maroodi takarta saaran ma`arkee, kan kale takarta saaran buu arkaa!” Muslims of today insult and bad-mouth Jews and X-tians to no end regarding Women’s rights...when its them themselves, too, who live in the WICKED steps those people before them had planned...when they shouldn’t --- when God had given them a clear BOOK that is full of Wisdom. Likewise, the Jews and X-tians bad-mouth Islam to no end regarding women’s rights...when truly, it is them who started it all. Pre-Islamic Arabia...women could buy land and have their own business(THAT was pre-islamic time in Arabia...) what do you think after Islam had come to them? This was possible to Muslim women 1400 years ago...while the Western women could NOT do this just hundered years ago...and they say Islam oppresses women? X-tians and Jews can just gimme a break! As for the verse 16:44, God is talking about *ISLAM*...and please, remember, it’s the QUR`AN that made things clear to man -- through MUHAMMAD(Pbuh) whose job was to do that; bring the message through his utterance. Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) would say; “people of Mecca, you’re to pay the zakkat every harvest day -- and not every other year...” or “People of Mecca, you’re to keep holy the four months God made holy...EVERY year and not whenever year you feel like it...” this is the Qur`an, but it’s Prophet Muhammad who communicates with them and makes things clear for them(they do NOT hear God...but they hear Prophet Muhammad, pbuh). The phrase; *wa anzalnaa ileyka al-dikra litubayina lil naasi maa nuzila ileyhim” “to make things clear to man what is been sent for them.” Prophet Muhammad was a Prophet; a righteous. There is no doubt that he had the wisdom to understand the Qur`an...and make things clear to those who don’t understand it. However, God guarantees to the believers that they will understand the Qur`an; it is made easy in their tongue, in their memory, and their understanding. Similar, God guarantees to the unbelievers they will NOT understand it...and that they’re deaf and dumb and blind to it. Thus, anybody who claims they can’t understand the Qur`an...cannot be believer -- or they added water to their milky-belief. And they need *dhukay-gur!* hahah! :) Now, about the hadiths being second, that is all I ever want. However, when one beliefs that hadiths are wahy...then, that will mean they cannot be second -- but a similar to the Qur`an. Thus, the hadiths will be independant without the Qur`an and can prohibit and allow things(as WE have SEEN!) This cannot be a secondary...but a legislative in the house--who has equal right. I believe the Master in Islam is God...and the Qur`an is the #1 law in Islam. That means, EVERYTHING else...MUST agree with the Qur`an. Otherwise, it cannot be a #1. If not this, God’s Law will be two -- ending up being two gods; and this is everything Islam is not. Islam is one...it has always been anything but one. When two messengers were sent in the same time(Moses and Aaron) God sent one Book; the Torah. This is because God is One...and so is His Law. Everything in the universe is lawful untill God prohibits it. Every accused one is innocent untill proved otherwise. Every human begins being on the right path, untill leaves that. So on and so forth. Nothing is *specifically* lawful untill God lawfuls it. If you hear a lawful thing mentioned anywhere but in the Qur`an, it cannot be lawful, specifically, since God did not made it lawful, specifically. If you hear unlawful thing mentioned in any other book, specifically, it cannot be unlawful until God unlawfuls it, specifically. That is God -- He is the King...He did not made many things unlawful, specifically, because He is very Merciful. Man goes ahead and makes it unlawful, God reveals a book and makes it unlawful! This is what happened to Israelites, they made things unlawful to themselves(that God did not specifically made unlawful)...when the Torah was revealed, it was made unlawful to them. It was them, later, who breaks it! The sabbath...was NOT rest day untill the Israelites made it rest day. God revealed the Torah and made it rest day. Why? Because they made it...and God showed them that He was Merciful when He didn’t make it before--and that they questioned His Mercifulness. Later, they didn’t rest! Isn’t that an itch for dis-obedience? You keep talking about *KNOWLEDGE* -- how can you have a knowledge or faith when one believes that Qur`an NEEDS tafsiir? But God says...it’s easy. Is God a liar? NO! This tells you that one doesn’t have UNDERSTANDING; deaf, dumb, and blind. You need understanding...before thinking you can have *knowledge*. God does not give knowledge to people who believe God sends two books; one a book, the other its explanation. God does not say; “We made it easy for you, in another book” but he says; “we made the Quran easy for your tongue, easy to understand, and easy to remember” The *signs of Allah and His Wisdom* are in the Qur`an; they make the QUR`AN. BOOK(words) and the Wisdom(meanings) are what the Qur`an posesses...and is made of. God TELLS us to do them BOTH: “when the Qur`an is recited, listen to it” meaning; “when hearing the WORDS...listen to their WISDOM” As for what the Prophet re-hearsed in his home, this is a HISTORY, Nur. The companions of the Prophet would gather in his house...and memorize the new revealed verses, of whatever that was revealed at whatever time. The Qur`an was the ONLY thing, as far as religion was concerned, that was re-hearsed and memorized. And, please, note, that Prophet Muhammad’s wives were example to women of all people. I know what is used for *WE* Nur...but that is not literall. I told you the literal as you said *AND* was used. DON’T forget also, England’s King used to address the Queen Elizabeth as ; “My lover and Wife” does that make two things??? or...One? hehehe! I could argue that he means his mistress and his wife...but we know he means only his wife. ALSO, it’s amazing how you’re keep jumping over the example from the Qur`an where Jesus, pbuh, was said similar to; “BOOK AND WISDOM” and God mentions Taurat and Injiil. And we both know Jesus was given the Injiil(Gospel!) The first thing Jesus did...when he came to children of Israel as a Messenger was to do away with the Mishnah(which is *Hadith* in Hebrew Language!) He refused his followers to believe in it as a religious source beside God’s Book(the Torah)! The Old Rabbis were out-raged, no doubt...because this man is rejecting the *Oral Message!* He didn’t reject the oral message...he rejected what they fabricated. Now, in the Talmud(later books made from the *oral message*) they glow over the *death* of Jesus...and call his mother “a whore” -- when God says she kept her chastity. And, similar, God responds to them in the Qur`an and tells them; “they killed him NOT!” As for the meaning of *Hadith.* I didn’t mean to confuse you that I meant that this verse is talking about the literall hadiths of the Prophet. I was trying to draw the connection between; “after this” and the “hadith”(in the arabic recitation)! WHATEVER the coming hadith is, we know it’s NOT going to be beside the HADITH in where God tells his side of the story; the Qur`an. “what hadith after this will they believe” -- tells us, if NOTHING else, to not believe anything AFTER the Qur`an as occurate story-telling. History recalls the *hadiths* as being 200 years after the Qur`an. HAD the hadiths were similar book or part of the Qur`an, don’t yah think...Prophet Muhammad would write it down and ask his followers to believe in it...as a book beside the Qur`an as religious law? Did Bukhari and Muslim had to do for him? Zayid did nothing else but write what God’s Apostle told him to write...and if the hadiths are law beside the Qur`an(that independently prohibits and lawfuls)...Prophet Muhammad would ask Zayid to write the *oral message* as well. Also, you are mistaking me with submitters when you think I believe all hadiths are untrue. They are not all untrue. What untrue is what contradicts the Qur`an...or does what the Qur`an does not appoint. I believe hadiths can teach us a great deal about the religion(since it is history)...i just don’t think they’re as preserved or accurate as the Qur`an -- nor do I think they’re religious revelation beside the Qur`an. So, in a way, i’m between sunnis and submitters, but then again, i’m between all kinds of sects. There isn’t a sect that I don’t agree with...at something. In the same token, there isn’t a sect that I agree all the way with. I dissagree with the submitters, as much as the sunnis and shias. I have yet to meet a sect that I agree with all the way...maybe I should have my own sect called; “Ahmadology”? Nah, i’m very much happy with just being *Muslim*...and that alone. Many people nearly get MAD when I tell them that. Umar, Saying “Ahmad and Submitters are MIS-TRANSLATING in *THEIR* rashad khalifa’s book” says that I and the Submitters are getting quotes from Rashad’s translation. Rashad’s translation has many accurates...but I also see many inaccurates. I do not quote it due to the fact that this guy claimed to be a Messenger. I’m learning more about him(NOT in these few days...but months and months before) i’m learning more about him to make the conviction for MYSELF if and if not he’s a messenger of God. I do not question that there will be a messenger...I just question WHO! Many people tell me since I believe this...I shouldn’t consider other muslims who don’t believe this as brothers/sisters. This is wrong...since the Messenger is NOT here yet. When and if he comes, in my time, those who accept him and render him help are my brothers...may those be the jews or muslims or any other person. However, before that, anyone who believes that God is one and that Muhammad was a Prophet of Allah is my brother. You asked me *again*(even though I answered it already)...if every prophet is messenger and muhammad is the last prophet...isn’t that he is the last messenger also? Well, NO; everything that God sends, INCLUDING Angels, are Messengers. However, not every messenger gets to be a Prophet. The one who utters new Laws is a Prophet(because he is given a BOOK)...however, the one who confirms the books of those before him is just a messenger who rules in that preceeding one’s Book. are they the same? Now, God tells us that Muhammad(a PROPHET) is the last of the Prophets. This means, messengers may continue to come after him...but there won’t be any new books or laws after him. Think of it this way; a principle sends teachers to school...when one of the teachers is sick or gone(and the kids may GO bad) the principle sends a substitute who delivers the message that KIDS MUST APPLY TO THE LAWS of the School...while the substitute is not a teacher, but a one who keeps the kids within the boundry the principle set and the teacher left with. Lets say, the Principle decided that this class won’t have a teacher the remainder of the year. There will be substitutes...or a substitute whose job is to make sure kids don’t go wild untill the year is over...and they can pass to another class. OK, maybe this is a bad example...but it sorta fits the feet. heheh! :) ALSO, people are going up and down about *SUBMITTERS*...need I to tell you that *submitters* means *muslims* in English??? I, personally, Ahmad, like identifying myself as *muslim* -- this is NOT because I think it must be said in that form...but because I got used to it. I do not find it *odd* that Muslim people are identifying themselves as *submitters* any more than people are identifying Ebraahiim as *Abraham* or Allah as *God* or Essau as *Jesus* or whatever. You know, this is all language. The followers of Rashad Khalifa...translate EVERYTHING into whatever language they’re using; english, turkish, german, swedish, etc. In their site, they have translated into all these different languages, and for every language, they use the correct translation of it. The point is that Arabs organized the religion...as organized religion...which is NOT so. The true religion of God; the Religion of Abraham...cannot be organized since God cannot be organized. It is the way of life for those who submitt themselves to him in submission regarding of all His Laws and Rules. The thing that we’re most different of from Jews and X-tians, in the Qur`anic perspective, is that our religion is NOT organized. God forbids people calling Abraham a Jew...because Abraham was not organized...as Judaism is; Abraham was hanifi(monotheist)...and his religion was submission to the Lord of the Worlds(Islam...)! One needs to take a good look at the Qur`an and the representation of the Islamic World --- and it won’t be too long before one realizes...that this religion is organized, as much as Judaism and X-tainity...and that is due to the fabricated kinds of the hadiths that present a different Islam than that of the Qur`an. And, the fact that almost the Qur`an is neglected to no end, it probes the mind of explanation of why man does what he does. So, don’t go around differentiating *submitters* and *muslims*. When you do that, what is nex?...Abraham is not Ebraahiim? ;) ANYWAY, about the verse 66.1! You don’t prohibit things with normal vows, you prohibit things with VOWS that you will not eat them. Prohibiting anything that God did not prohibit is mistake...a grave mistake, may God forgive or not forgive. In the case of the Prophets, God forgave him...because they’re part of the example; that God forgives mistakes...if returned. WHY does God say in the Qur`an...those who *sin* out of ignorance...AND REPENT(why do they have to repent if they’re not responsible for it?) So, thus, ignorance or no ignorace...sin is sin; and you must repent it from. Adam and Eve were NOT ignorance about their mistake -- they were told first hand that they SHOULD NOT...and they did, yet God forgave them. This is because it doesn’t matter if or if not you know it; if you commit sin...you must repent. It is part of God’s plan that Messengers mistake...and this is because messengers are example to the humans. It tells you that there is no giving up in God -- God is forgiving...who forgives most horrible sins, as long as His Glory is not shared with another diety. And, BTW, as I told you...your references of the Quranic verses in you post has no base...since they have notes all over in the verses...which makes the impression that whatever the translator is translating is the correct way(of understanding)...and as I said, I came to know that some people do not understand the Qur`an due to their belief of the Qur`an being hard to begin with. Bashir said that the verse in Al-Imran says; "not clear" I guess some people just want to distort...I wonder what the meaning of "mutashaabihaatu" is! Oh, what a world! yeah yeah yeah! We STILL have the Qur`an, don't forget...it is a LIVING proof that none can attribute lies to! SO many verse in the Qur`an are mutashabihaat...does that matter to some? God is Most Great! Caaliyah, HA! You know, my entire intention of posting in here is NOT to change anybody's mind...but to give the opportunity to know. Did you think Prophet Muhammad's preaching to the Arabian pagans was to change their mind? No! It was to give them the opportunity to KNOW -- whatever they do thereafter is not his job. Likewise, I do not care IF the whole world believed what I believe...but i care that they get the opportunity to hear it. After that I have no say in their decision that is the existance of humans; to CHOOSE! Nobody can do this for anybody. Everyone must do themselves. Have fun with your learning! :) Muna, Walaashiis, Yehud iyo Nasaaro baa maalintii oo dhan i leh; "ilaahay haku soo hanuuniyo" sidaan ayaga ku iraahdana; "KULIGEENBA!" :) Peace, Ahmad!
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| | Unrecorded Date The point Ahmed keeps ignoring is that Rashad Khalifa’s translation about the LAYLATUL ISRA and Ahmed's TRANSLATION about that event are the same----Ahmed and Rashad Khalifa's HADEETH about the SOUL going up-to the HEAVENS while Muhammad was "DREAMING" is different from the HADEETH the rest of the MUSLIMS believe. Therefore, Ahmad and Rashad Khalifa have their own IDOL HADEETH----which the QURAN DOES NOT CONFIRM. So where did Ahmad get HIS HADEETH if not FROM the Rashad Khalifa's followers. That is the point! And the BIGGER POINT is that if Ahmed BELEIVES his own HADEETH; his own LOGIC, and his own TAFSIIR about the QURAN----similar to the way the Rashad Khalifa's followers BELIEVE---is not Ahmed then a hypocrite for BELIEVING the same things HE always accuses and blames on the MUSLIMS and isn't Ahmed also in idolatry? I mean, if Ahmed is "keep telling the Somalis that they're in idolatry", and that the SOMALIS are MUSHIRKIIN(are in idolatry), then Ahmed is both a MUNAAFAQ AND MUSHRIK at the same time since he is following his own idol HADEETH and since he is pretending to be better than the Somali Muslims. :-) Ahmed said: "I'm learning more about Rashad Khalifa(NOT in these few days...but months and months before) i’m learning more about him to make the conviction for MYSELF if and if not he’s a messenger of God" Unlike Ahmed, we Muslims have the FIRM *conviction* without a doubt and without *ifs* and *buts* that there were NOT and there will NOT be messengers from Allah after messenger Muhammad-----and without a doubt and without ifs or buts Rashad Khalifa---like the MEN before him who claimed to have been prophets and messengers from Allah---from Musaylama to Elijah---were nothing but LIARS--------KADAABIIN. Ahmed said: "I do not question that there will be a messenger" Unlike Ahmed, Muslims question any man who says he is a messenger from Allah and we will declare him to be a LIAR. Ahmed said: "since the Messenger is NOT here yet. When and if he comes" Unlike Ahmed and Submitters, Muslims are not waiting for a messenger from Allah----because---since Muhammad is the seal of all the prophets-----and since every messenger is a prophet---and since the QURAN does not mention that there will be another messenger from Allah after Muhammad--and since Jesus was both a prophet and a messenger of Allah, then a messenger who will be coming will only be an IMPOSTER. However, Ahmed and Submitters do not have to "question" Rashad Khalifa's claim or they can wait for another false messenger to come if they want to. :-) Ahmed said "everything that God sends, INCLUDING Angels, are Messengers" Well, is Ahmed a sent messenger from Allah and is that why he preaches to the Somalis on here? :-) Ahmed is here again contradicting himself and doing his usaul flip flopping: In one time, he said-----"every messenger is a messenger...but not every messenger is a Prophet!"----and in another time Ahmed said--------"every prophet is a messenger",----and now Ahmed is saying----"not every messenger gets to be a Prophet"!!! I mean is this guy Ahmad OKAY or is he a confused fellow? :-) Ahmed said "The one who utters new Laws is a Prophet(because he is given a BOOK)..." But Ahmed does not know that every prophet was not GIVEN a BOOK. Ahmed said "people are going up and down about *SUBMITTERS*...need I to tell you that *submitters* means *muslims* in English???" Well, Ahmed is denying that *SUBMITTERS* submit, obey and believe the *SAYINGS* of a man who claimed to have been a messenger from Allah---these people are also known as the FOLLOWERS OF RASHAD KHALIFA. :-) Ahmed keeps saying that, in verse 66.1!, our prophet Muhammad made "a grave mistake" and that mistakes are SINS, but Ahmed is also saying prophets of Allah DO NOT COMMIT SINS. !!!!!! :-) Ahmed said to me "your references of the Quranic verses in you post has no base...since they have notes all over in the verses" But Ahmed does not understand that an ENGLISH translation of the QURAN or any other language for that matter is not the QURAN. Like the notes, the English Quranic verses are not like the Arabic QURAN. Ahmed said: "I came to know that some people do not understand the Qur`an due to their belief of the Qur`an being hard to begin with" What Ahmed is trying to say is that---Ahmed is saying if we Muslims believe Ahmad's and Rashad Khalifa's understanding of the QURAN---"due to Ahmed's belief" and Rashad Khalifa's "understanding" of the QURAN!!---we will be guided. :-) Ahmed said to CAALIYA this: "Did you think Prophet Muhammad's preaching to the Arabian pagans was to change their mind? No! It was to give them the opportunity to KNOW -- whatever they do thereafter is not his job. Likewise, I do not care IF the whole world believed what I believe...but i care that they get the opportunity to hear it. After that I have no say in their decision that is the existance of humans; to CHOOSE! Nobody can do this for anybody. Everyone must do themselves. Have fun with your learning! :) " CALIAY, as I asked Ahmed above, can you also ask him----if Ahmed "LIKEWISE" one of the prophets and the messengers of Allah sent to the SOMALIS? :-)
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| | Unrecorded Date Sorry...the last sentence should be read this way: CALIAY, as I asked Ahmed above, can you also ask him----is Ahmed "LIKEWISE" one of the prophets and the messengers of Allah sent to the PEOPLE---in this case for Ahmed--sent to the Somalis? :-)
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| | Unrecorded Date Asalaamu Alaykum Dear sister; singleladyinsearchofgoodmuslimmaninmarriage Thank you very much, for the sweet comments, it was so nice of you. To answer your question, yes I am married, newly married actually (five months) I am able to say that I am still happily married, May Allah make it eternal. May Allah give every Muslim man and every Muslim woman a happy and a prosperous life. Amin. My thanks to Brother Ansaari. Ahmad; we are witnessing a classic AHMADOLOGY in action over and again, false logic, irrelevance, faulty philosophical reasoning, inaccurate explanations, constant contradictions, emotional fiddling with the Qur’an and personal crusade against the Hadith (when needed and with the help of Talmud and “famous” Rabbis) as well as a crusade against the personality of prophet Mohamed (pbuh). Ahmad you have also shown that you lack polemic taste when you tie the resemblance of “IF” in Iblis and “IF” in Eve, what your false logic could not grasp was that Allah, the most glorious and the most high have forgiven Adam and Eve for their mistake while Allah (swt) has expelled and put his curse on Iblis. Did you say Why Ahmad? Because Ahmad, Adam and eve have asked for Allah’s forgiveness after the sin, while Iblis continued in his arrogance. Read what the Qur’an say about Adam and Eve; Al-a’raf 23. They said: "Our Lord! We have wronged our own souls: If thou forgive us not and bestow not upon us Thy Mercy, we shall certainly be lost." In contrast to Iblis’s arrogance; (Al-a’raf 12). ((Allah)) said: "What prevented thee from bowing down when I commanded thee?" He said: "I am better than he: Thou didst create me from fire, and him from clay." (Al-a’raf 13). ((Allah)) said: "Get thee down from this: it is not for thee to be arrogant here: get out, for thou art of the meanest (of creatures)." Ahmad you might be disappointed to discover that you are not the first one to commit the SIN OF ARROGANCE, you see Ahmad; Iblis has beaten you in that, for Iblis is the first to commit the SIN OF ARROGANCE. Ahmad do not force the Hadith on what it never said, if you hear voices that is another matter, but the hadith never said: “BECAUSE OF HER, WOMEN BETRAY AND DO UNFAITHFUL ACTS” I am aware Ahmad that you would like the Hadith to sound like that, but it simply didn’t. And Ahmad; if you do not understand a particular statement it is admirable that you seek explanations from someone who can help you understand it (common sense, right!). It is however, unworthy to classify that statement to be unjust, just because you (Ahmad) do not understand it. This weird scientific AHMADOLOGY itself is prejudiced. On a separate note may I add that what is a fact is absolutely just. About your waffle on “women’s rights” I say it again: it is irrelevance upon irrelevance to the topic we are discussing, It is also a major problem if you Ahmad; can not understand that “irrelevant to the topic at hand” does not mean “irrelevant to life as a whole” Ahmad said to me “Where have you been when in a *SAHIH* book has a woman had put every material that her husband used (including his wadu vesell...and a stick he can beat her with) on her body and walked around ALL-DAY until he comes home. And, that was the first woman to go to HEAVEN!!! HAHAHAAHAH! That she even went to heaven before Fatimah-Zahra???” What Hadith Ahmad? Show us where you got it from, and prove to us its SAHIH status. We are all ears Ahmad! Sister Deeqa has given you the meaning of the Hadith and how she has read it, she has tried to reason with your logic, I am convinced that she is by now found out how unthanked that task is. Ahmad said to me; * The phrase; *wa anzalnaa ileyka al-dikra litubayina lil naasi maa nuzila ileyhim” “to make things clear to man what is been sent for them.” Prophet Muhammad was a Prophet; a righteous. There is no doubt that he had the wisdom to understand the Qur`an...and make things clear to those who don’t understand it. * Well, THANK YOU; and can you actually hear yourself and understand what you yourself is saying? The Hadith of the prophet is simply his explanations (in detail), his actions, and his assertions? Prophet Mohammed did not only always use to speak in Qur’anic verses, but used to tell the sahabah (in his own words) what to do, and what not to do, the prophet used to do actions and the sahabah used to copy those actions. Could you also understand Ahmad; the verse “wamaa aataakumu al rasuula fakhuduuhu wamaa nahaakum canhu fantahuu”? What are you saying here Ahmad; * However, God guarantees to the believers that they will understand the Qur`an; it is made easy in their tongue, in their memory, and their understanding. Similar, God guarantees to the unbelievers they will NOT understand it...and that they’re deaf and dumb and blind to it. Thus, anybody who claims they can’t understand the Qur`an...cannot be believer :) * Does that mean anybody who does not understand Arabic is an unbeliever? Ahmad; we know that your Arabic is not that good, where does that leave you? And look at this and the subsequent sidesteps; * Now, about the hadiths being second, that is all I ever want. However, when one beliefs that hadiths are wahy...then, that will mean they cannot be second -- but a similar to the Qur`an. Thus, the hadiths will be independant without the Qur`an and can prohibit and allow things(as WE have SEEN!) This cannot be a secondary...but a legislative in the house--who has equal right. I believe the Master in Islam is God...and the Qur`an is the #1 law in Islam. That means, EVERYTHING else...MUST agree with the Qur`an. Otherwise, it cannot be a #1. * I am declaring to you again that the hadith is the second stage of legislative (tashriic in Islam) after the Qur’an, if you can not find a law in the Qur’an you take the law (sharc) from the hadith, the Qur’an have indeed explained every thing when it comes to principles and foundations, and it was left for prophet Mohamed (pbuh) to explain and elaborate the practice and practicalities of concepts. Ahmad; the Qur’an and the Hadith (the Authenticated Hadith) of prophet Mohamed (pbuh) do not contradict each other, because they both came from the same source (WAHY). What contradict each other are your logic and my logic as well as your logic and other logics. We have recently seen that some particular Hadiths contradicting your logic and your thinking. While us (brother Umar, sister Deeqa, others and me) see that same Hadiths fully corresponding to our logic and to our thinking. Ahmad; the whole procedure of discovering contradictions of Hadith to “logic” is an argumentative procedure that can be right or wrong. It is further based on intellect, someone’s level of knowledge and comprehension. And to your assertion that Qur’an does not need interpretations is just another classic AHMADOLOGY. To this statement Ahmad; * As for what the Prophet re-hearsed in his home, this is a HISTORY, Nur. The companions of the Prophet would gather in his house...and memorize the new revealed verses, of whatever that was revealed at whatever time. * It is clear from the verses in discussion that they are directly talking (literally and conceptually) to the wives of the prophet (pbuh). The verses are simply saying to prophet’s wives: read what is being read in your homes of the verses of Allah and the wisdom. (the verses are also reminding the wives of the prophet to be grateful of what they have got) and to suggest Ahmad; that the prophet only read Qur’an in his homes and never uttered any other words while in his home, and remained mute, is simply absurd. The question here is what wisdom rather than the verses of Allah [as the two: (verses AND wisdom) are clearly discriminated in the verse] were being read in the prophet’s houses? The answer Ahmad likes to either avoid or deny is HADITHS. Ahmad you are simply wrong to equate Mishnah with Hadith and you deserve all condemnation for that, the two are not the same. You better get your ISRAILIYAT facts right. Mishnah is not the sayings of prophet Musa (pbuh) but it is the explanations of Jewish Rabbis of the Torah, you could equate it to the tafsiirs of Muslim scholars to the Qur’an but never with the HADIITHS. The Hadiths are the sayings of prophet Mohamed (pbuh). You are simply wrong. Another classic AHMADOLOGY. I do not know who you intended to confuse when defining the word “Hadith” but I can see now you ended up confusing yourself when you said; * I was trying to draw the connection between; “after this” and the “hadith”(in the arabic recitation)! WHATEVER the coming hadith is, we know it’s NOT going to be beside the HADITH in where God tells his side of the story; the Qur`an. “what hadith after this will they believe” -- tells us, if NOTHING else, to not believe anything AFTER the Qur`an as accurate story-telling. * Does the verse say this? Let us see, the verse says; 7. 185. Do they see nothing in the government of the heavens and the earth and all that Allah hath created? (Do they not see) that it may well be that their terms is nigh drawing to an end? In what message after this will they then believe? (Yusuf Ali) The verse is talking to the unbelievers, why they (unbelievers) do not look at Allah’s MALAKUT (the government ) of the heavens and the earth and all that Allah has created, and how it may be their terms is drawing to an end? What then, what other message (sayings) after this particular message will they then believe? Is there any hint of the Hadith’s of prophet Mohamed (pbuh)? Or are you Ahmed questioning how the Hadiths are authenticated after the gap between them and the prophet (pbuh)? Are you Ahmad? But then I continued reading the verse, which follows the verse above; 7. 186. To such as Allah rejects from His guidance, there can be no guide: He will leave them in their trespasses, wandering in distraction. And when I looked at what you have said which is; * in a way, i’m between sunnis and submitters, but then again, i’m between all kinds of sects. There isn’t a sect that I don’t agree with...at something. In the same token, there isn’t a sect that I agree all the way with. I disagree with the submitters, as much as the sunnis and shias. I have yet to meet a sect that I agree with all the way...maybe I should have my own sect called; “Ahmadology”? * Then I got my answer and I was not surprised, not at all. Salamu Alaykum.
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| | Unrecorded Date Caliya, like you, I’m learning things as I read and debate. If you faith in the Quran and Suna is firm, you have nothing to fear, but Allah. Although we are in different places and countries, I've seen and noticed that so many of us are returning to Allah---and filling up the masjids---as we have never done before when we were back home-----that is really Allah Mercy--Alhamduli-Allah----and yes, "Ilaaheey works mysteriously.". :-) Sister, single-lady-in-search-of-a-good-muslim-man-in-marriage, I'm not available for consideration----I do not know about the other brothers----but why don't you publish your email address so they can contact with you in private. :-)
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| | Unrecorded Date Umar&Nur. Brothers, I don't mean to flatter you for your service to Islam, But without you in this forums, we would have a real proplem. Yaska & Other Brothers/sisters. Not only AHMED believes there is ANOTHER messenger After Mohammed, he also encourages Somalis to have an open mind LIKE HIS SUBMITTER mind on the issue and he said this" I already told you from the begining that I was NOT Sunni. I don't get somethings that people say sometimes! Anyway, I don't believe there is or was a Messenger after Prophet Muhammad. However, the verse 3;81 speaks out itself...when people are not biased; read it...it would do yah great deal, IF you're not biased." I see two things in this qoutation; AHMED is contradicting himself with in the same place when he says he does not believe A MESSENGER AFTER MOHAMMED, But again he retracts that by saying TO BROTHER ANSARI that he should have unbiased mind so he can find out from the meaning of the verses that THERE IS ANOTHER messenger. I am waiting for the day in which AHMED will proclaim he is the SOMALI MESSENGER sent ot us. Ms. SINGLE. I saw your checklist and thought may be you would add "Submitters need not APPLY". Sorry my dear sister if this offended you. Just be careful about the believe of your future husband. Hope you will put into context of what is going on here and see that I am muslim always does not mean I am muslim. There are twisted and believers of strange religion among us. Leave your E-MAIL for those who are interested will contact you inshallah. I am married , But then if I wasn't I would not be qualified because I am a college drop out due to pressure from home. So have a mercy on those who would or may want to contact you and are not DEGREE HOLDERS. Because education is on going proccess that never ends through out life. I am sorry again if I ANGERED YOU. I stand corrected if I misunderstood your proposal. Wasalaam.
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| | Unrecorded Date BASHIR. NO WAY BROTHER. I WILL NOT MARRY A SUBMITTER. THE FIRST THING HE WILL SAY TO ME WILL BE TO TAKE OFF MY HIJAB. HE WILL ALWAYS BE ONLINE DEBATING AND SUBMITTING POSTS TO THE NET. MY CHILDREN WILL NOT PRAY LIKE ME. WHO KNOWS WHAT ELSE HE MIGHT DO. HE MIGHT BEAT ME WITH KITAAB ON MY HEAD WHEN HE GETS ANGRY WITH ME AND WHEN MY CHILDREN SAY SOMETHING GOOD ABOUT OUR PROPHET HE MIGHT BEAT THEM TOO. WHEN I SAID I WANT AN EDUCATED BROTHER, I MEANT TO SAY SOMEONE WHO WILL LEARN OR ALREADY LEARNED SOME DIIN AND SOME WORLDLY MATTERS. HE DOES NOT HAVE TO BE A COLLEGE GRATUATE. I KNOW SO MANY MEN WHO FINISHED UNIVERSITIES WHO KNOW NOTHING ABOUT LIFE. PEOPLE CAN EDUCATE THEMSELVES BY READING DIIN AND WORLDLY THINGS AND THEY CAN TAKE SOME PROFESSIONAL COURSES. I WANT SOME ONE WHO CAN SUPPORT A FAMILY AND SOME ONE WHO I CAN LEARN FROM OR WILL LEARN TOGETHER IN DIIN AND OTHER THINGS. SOMEONE WHO DOES NOT KNOW ABOUT DIIN AND IS NOT PROFESSIONAL WILL NOT BE A GOOD CHOICE FOR ME SPECAILLY WHILE LIVING IN NORTH AMERICA. HIS FAMILY AND HIS CHILDREN WILL SUFFER BOTH IN DIIN AND WORLDLY GAIN. I KNOW THAT MEN WHO STUDIED BOTH DIIN AND WORLDLY THINGS IS MUCH BETTER THAN ONE WHO STUDIES OR STUDIED JUST ONE THING. SORRY GUYS I AM TOO SHY TO GIVE MY EMAIL AWAY.
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| | Unrecorded Date Ms. Single. kheyr ilaahey haku siiyo iyo waxaad jeceshahay. How the heck do you think though they will contact you?. There is gotta be someway girl!!!! Being shy is good and favorable. May be The guys are shy like you and they won't post e-mails either. So sheekada waa i jiid aan ku jiidee?. This is really tough. waslaam.
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| | Unrecorded Date Ms. Single I chuckled and couldn't swallow my salliva when I read your last post second time. You said"HE WILL ALWAYS BE ONLINE DEBATING AND SUBMITTING POSTS TO THE NET. MY CHILDREN WILL NOT PRAY LIKE ME." And I thought may be we should let you debate with AHMED since his arguments are based on weak foundations and ungodly devillish sources. Who is a muslim and believes that A CONVICTED RAPIST is worth consideration as to whether he is messenger of god or not?. Rashad khalifa was Rapist AND ahmed follows that guy and tries to confuse muslims with his teachings. How ignorant and unfaithful to ALLAH one can be after AHMED?. I thought I saw enough strange things before, But AHMED told me otherwise. In short, take care and be vigilant as you are now. As for your marriage ALLAH said" Waman yattaqillaha, yajcal lahu maqrajan" oo ah " qofkii ilaahey ka cabsada, ered buu u furaa" Sidaa daraaddeed you will have your day in which you will enjoy what you like inshallah.
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| | Unrecorded Date Asalama Alaykum Muslims! Nur, Brother, you say; "I am declaring to you again that the hadith is the second stage of legislative (tashriic in Islam) after the Qur’an, if you can not find a law in the Qur’an you take the law (sharc) from the hadith, the Qur’an have indeed explained every thing when it comes to principles and foundations, and it was left for prophet Mohamed (pbuh) to explain and elaborate the practice and practicalities of concepts." BUT, you cannot find it in the hadiths if you couldn't find it in the QUR`AN, unless, as Rashad Khalifa says in one of his book; "a book where they find whatever they want". This becomes true...when something that the Qur`an didn't talk about, because of Mercy from God, the Hadith goes ahead and makes it haram/halal; "34. Verily, for the Righteous, are Gardens of Delight, with their Lord. 35. Shall We then treat the People of Faith like the People of Sin? 36. What is the matter with you? How judge ye? 37. Or have ye a book through which ye learn- 38. That ye shall have, through it whatever ye choose? 39. Or have ye Covenants with Us to oath, reaching to the Day of Judgment, (providing) that ye shall have whatever ye shall demand? 40. Ask thou of them, which of them will stand surety for that!" Chapter 68. Children of Israel have done this before...where they literally prohibited themselves to that which God did NOT(GUES where they got that from -- the hadiths of the Prophets, of course.) This is because...they attributed it to the Prophets when the Prophets had nothing to do with it. The Hadiths do this, Nur. Also, AS I SAID before, are you coming down from your belief that hadiths are another wahy to the Prophet??? because if not, hadiths cannot be a second. Nur, Brother, if something comes from God...and it is a revelation; it cannot superior itself from the other. When I say "revelation" i mean in regards of RELIGION. Had I believed that the hadiths are another part of the Qur`an, I would not believe they're second to the Qur`an. I said; "The phrase; *wa anzalnaa ileyka al-dikra litubayina lil naasi maa nuzila ileyhim” “to make things clear to man what is been sent for them.” Prophet Muhammad was a Prophet; a righteous. There is no doubt that he had the wisdom to understand the Qur`an...and make things clear to those who don’t understand it." Every Muslim believes that, Nur -- that is not the point. The point is -- who did Prophet Muhammad made things clear to? THOSE WHO DO NOT UNDERSTAND IT. Those who understand it, the BELIEVERS, only needed him as a companion of example...whom they could watch to correct the mistakes of man. Please, NOTE, Prophet Muhammad did not go to Muslims and preach(UNTILL Muslims got so many that there was SO MANY of hypocrites in them)! He would go to the ARAB PAGANS and the other UNBELIEVERS! No doubt, Prophet Muhammad showed his followers the right way...but not as much as those who did not accept him as Messenger from God. This is because those who believe, God purifies their hearts...they were little messengers themselves walking around as example to mankind as whole. Showing others what is taught them from their Lord. AND, of course, Prophet Muhammad spoke in his own words(as I quoted above)...but they were quotes/part-quotes from the Qur`an...that he added sentences to -- to help those who have no understanding to see better. He spoke the language of the Qur`an; the poetic form of life. Something that would attract the heart of the sincere lost. Arabian pagans despised that. This is why he would show up only the holy month(ramadan)...and hide into the mountains the rest of the year. Because he was more of a the "poetic" than a Messenger to them...and they resented a poet to be a Messenger -- and this because they had no understanding. This is why I belief the hadiths to have existance...because there is the words of the Prophet in it. That does not make it a Book beside Qur`an -- no, but a way of learning the Prophet and how he talked, etc. And having the thought that this is NOT another Qur`an...makes the believer know where it goes off-topic. Nur, I was never telling you that Adam and Eve and Satan were the same. THE POINT IS; at some point, they were the same. Adam and Eve were part of those who GOD vowed to fill hell with. Those who Satan promised to have whisper them away. HOWEVER, Adam and Eve returned. Satan did NOT return nor seen any fault at his actions; TRULY, he fantasized the phrase of; "laga bartaa, laga badi" and thought he had enough power to refuse God's orders. The Mishnah, Nur...is written by Rabbis and it has FULL of explanations. However, as the Hebrew Torah, there is in the middle of the pages, this paragraph which is a TORAH. The Torah in this mishnah is NOT the real Torah but an *ORAL MESSAGE*(RING a bell -- similar to your belief that Hadiths are another wahy?) If there is a page of Mishnah, 90% of the page is expalantions of the Rabbis(and one particular Rabbi called; Rabbi Judah "the Prince") However, the Hebrew speaking reader will know automatically notice there is a part in the page that does not belong with the other text; this part is the oral-message, supposedly, given to Moses(pbuh)! AND, similar to the Bukhari and Muslim, these Rabbis went around and collect the *oral message*. There is also the Talmud which comments on the comments of the Rabbis in the mishnah, yada yada yada. YOU wait, in 2ooo years, there'll be a commentary on the hadiths -- this is history, Brother. You seem to forget that Islam is relatively new religion...considered to Judaism. We're not close, Brother. Muslims are now experiencing what Judaism did so thousands of years before. Man repeats the same things...over and over. This is the only thing that I GOT, really, in life!haha! A rabbi explains what Oral-Torah is; "It's important to clarify a common misconception many people have about the role of the Oral Torah in Judaism. The Oral Torah is not an interpretation of the Written Torah. The fact is, the Oral Torah preceded the Written Torah. When the Jewish People stood at Mt. Sinai 3300 years ago, G-d revealed Himself to the entire Jewish People. He then gave Moses the 613 commandments along with a detailed explanation of how the Jewish People were to fulfill them. At that point in time, the teachings were entirely oral. It wasn't until 40 years later, just prior to Moses' death and the Jewish People's entering the Land of Israel, that the written Torah as we know it (containing various stories and sources for the mitzvahs), was given to the Jewish People." Also, a Rabbi explains why the Oral Torah was needed(notice how this side of the story almost matches with the Muslims`); "The Oral Torah was originally meant to be transmitted by word of mouth. It was transmitted from master to student in such a manner that if the student had any question, he would be able to ask, and thus avoid ambiguity. A written text, on the other hand, no matter how perfect, is always subject to misinterpretation. Furthermore, the Oral Torah was meant to cover the infinitude of cases which would arise in the course of time. It could never have been written in its entirety. It is thus written (Ecclesiastes 12:12), "Of making many books there is no end." God therefore gave Moses a set of rules through which the Torah could be applied to every possible case. If the entire Torah would have been given in writing, everyone would be able to interpret it as he desired. This would lead to division and discord among people who followed the Torah in different ways. The Oral Torah, on the other hand, would require a central authority to preserve it, thus assuring the unity of Israel..." I always thought "why are MUSLIM scholars are SO against us learning the Jewish religion" now I know why...because the sincere Muslim sees a copy of everything in the both religions. Both organize God. WOW! Both comment and PROHIBIT/LAWFUL what God did not over-look or forgot...but left it alone for He is Merciful! It is noteable that the chain of oral-message in Judaism and Islam are VERY similar! I do not have a personal *crusade* against the hadiths any more than I have any crusade against the Torah. And I do not have any persoanl *crusade* against Prophet Muhammad's personality any more than I have against Prophet Jesus. Cursed are those who invent lies, Nur, and then attribute it to God and His Apostles. My whole existance is surrounded by worshipping God and obeying His Messenger and Prophet; Muhammad(pbuh)...and loving him in order to love God. Certainly, one cannot do that when have *personal crusade* againt the subject. Islam is not what is today or was three thousand years ago...it is a way of life -- an age that was born with Adam and Eve...it cannot be corrupted, even when man tries damnest hard to do so. Remember, whoever advocates evil is returned to them. It passes through time...and is bound to be there...untill the end of time. IT, the True Islam, exceeds beyong *organization*... You think it's irrevelance to the topic? Excuse me...but what was the main reason for posting this discussion???? That hadiths contradict the Qur`an by being UNJUST to women. This was the point. IF you read the birth of this discussion, it read; "Isn’t it IRONIC...that the same people whom these notions are coppied from HOLD Islam as oppressing to women??? BUT, it’s not of Islam---the Qur`an does not teach these wicked notions...but it is from their Books!" WHY in the world would I say that had *oppressing women* is irrelevant to the discussion? Gimme A BREAK! Nur, now you're denying the FAMOUS hadiths somalis know by heart??? HA HA HA HA HA HA! I will get yah online one...if I find it, God willing! Face it, Muslims do oppress women because of hadiths -- the point is...it is just NOT Islam but Muslims! Islam is based on Qur`an, since it is the #1 source...thus, anything that does not agree with it isn't Islam(NOW, that is a common sense, BRO!) :) You said; "Ahmad; the Qur’an and the Hadith (the Authenticated Hadith) of prophet Mohamed (pbuh) do not contradict each other, because they both came from the same source (WAHY). What contradict each other are your logic and my logic as well as your logic and other logics. We have recently seen that some particular Hadiths contradicting your logic and your thinking. While us (brother Umar, sister Deeqa, others and me) see that same Hadiths fully corresponding to our logic and to our thinking. Ahmad; the whole procedure of discovering contradictions of Hadith to “logic” is an argumentative procedure that can be right or wrong. It is further based on intellect, someone’s level of knowledge and comprehension. And to your assertion that Qur’an does not need interpretations is just another classic AHMADOLOGY." HA HA HA HA HA! WOW! Nur, my logic contradicts a WHOLE religions that calls itself *islam*(by declaring to follow the prophets and the rules of islam) those are X-tianity and Judaism. YET, these BILLIONS of people correspond and accept the false teachings they attribute to God and His Prophet as wonderfully caputered as yours. Does this make me wrong? "wadar iyo waaxid kee waalan"??? HAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Oh, my logic is most certianly eiped. ALSO, Nur, it's NOT my assertion that Qur`an doesn't need EXPLANATIONS, GOD SAYS: [15.1 Alif. Lám. Rá. These are the Ayats of Revelation,- of a Qurán that makes things clear. 43.3 We have made it a Qurán in Arabic, that ye may be able to understand. 44.58 Verily, We have made this (Qurán) easy, in thy tongue, in order that they may give heed. 54.17 And We have indeed made the Qurán easy to understand and remember: then is there any that will receive admonition?] Please, note...that I don't say it doesn't need interprations...because there are those who do not understand Arabic --- but i'm saying; EXPLANATIONS! So, BROTHER, it is God who says; "it's easy for your tongue, easy to understand, and easy to remember" A BOOK LIKE THAT -- NEVER needs explanation. However, it is also God who says; "17.46 And We put coverings over their hearts (and minds) lest they should understand the Qurán, and deafness into their ears: when thou dost mention thy Lord and Him alone in the Qurán, they turn on their backs, fleeing (from the Truth)." This is why people want God to not be alone and sufficient -- in their minds, God cannot *explain* the Qur`an enough -- he left it for others to do it...yada yada yada! It is despicable, but most people don't know it, while doing it. I, Ahmad, was one of those who thought God left it to scholars to explain the Qur`an, correctly! What a world! And the sad part is, I too read the Qur`an thousands of times...and never had the understanding to notice it. Also, Nur, isn't a little tricky to translate the word "aayaati" as "verses"(thus making it means the *quran*)??? The word aayaati does not just mean verses -- but also SIGNS/REVELATION. This is what every translator I know and I myself see it to be. YUSUF ALI: 33.34 And recite what is rehearsed to you in your homes, of the Signs of Allah and His Wisdom: for Allah is All-Subtle, All-Aware. PICTALL: 33:34 And bear in mind that which is recited in your houses of the revelations of Allah and wisdom. Lo! Allah is Subtile, Aware. RASHAD KHALIFA: 33:34 Remember what is being recited in your homes of GOD's revelations and the wisdom inherent therein. GOD is Sublime, Cognizant. SHAKIR: 33.34 And keep to mind what is recited in your houses of the communications of Allah and the wisdom; surely Allah is Knower of subtleties, Aware. ISMAIL FAHMI: 33:34 And bear in mind that which is recited in your houses of the revelations of Allah and wisdom. Lo! Allah is Subtile, Aware. Hhhhhmmm, tricky or treat? How can hadiths be revelations then? AND, yes, all those people that I mentioned...except Rashad Khalifa...are people who agree with you, mostly! :) ALSO, I didn't say Prophet Muhammad did not utter any other thing(as Muhammad) but I was talking about as the REVELATIONS. I siad this; "The Qur`an was the ONLY thing, as far as religion was concerned, that was re-hearsed and memorized. And, please, note, that Prophet Muhammad’s wives were example to women of all people." I did not no-where said the Prophet didn't say anything else. Nobody was memorizing anything but the Qur`an. The Prophet was a messenger, NUR, it is his job to TALK TO PEOPLE and explain them things to -- but the point is, what did he talked of? the Qur`an. He ruled in the Qur`an, lived in the Qur`an, preached in the Qur`an, did everything in the Qur`an. He had the WISDOM to understand the Qur`an unlike the Arabian-pagans he lived within. Does that surprise you? God gave Wisdom to the Prophets...who lived in primitive people who knew not a-from-b. I'm NOT denying or avoiding anything, Nur. It is you who when given clear examples from the Qur`an does not comment or just ignore totally. Everything you brought to my attention...I talked about and explained my end -- and as always, i was open to re-discuss or be educated if I was wrong or so. The Qur`an is clear, Nur. Nothing to avoid it's A AND B! You're saying the verse of the *hadith*(that I mentioned) is talking to the unbelievers. Do YOU not know that Unbelievers know what God says in this? Was it not God himself who said that if we'd ask them, they'd say; "ALLAH". However, the verse has a meaning...much farther than that of seing. ONLY, one needs to read it...and understand it. As for me not agreeing with anybody, you think that is *wandering in distraction* HA HA HA HA HA! WOW! THEN, surely, sunnis too must be that...since the whole world does NOT agree with them. WHAT a logic! If we count the people on earth and the sunnis...we get, what? :) I GUESS, Prophet Muhammad, was "wandering in distraction" as well when he was the ONLY one in millions of people who believed something, eh? How about Abraham?...Noah? hhhmm, oh, my logic is SO eiped! At the time of the Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) there was STILL some Israelites who held onto what God revealed to them in goodness...who nulled and denied the fabricated scriptures that people attributed to the prophets and God. Yah should read the Qur`an! :)) Umar, You said; "The point Ahmed keeps ignoring is that Rashad Khalifa’s translation about the LAYLATUL ISRA and Ahmed's TRANSLATION about that event are the same----Ahmed and Rashad Khalifa's HADEETH about the SOUL going up-to the HEAVENS while Muhammad was "DREAMING" is different from the HADEETH the rest of the MUSLIMS believe." WELL, haven't I told you already that I TAKE some stuff from the Submitters as I do from other sects? Maybe you're the one who are avoiding that, eh? HAHAHA! Also, had you understood the Qur`an, you'd know what that is; "39.41 Verily We have revealed the Book to thee in Truth, for (instructing) mankind. He, then, that receives guidance benefits his own soul: but he that strays injures his own soul. Nor art thou set a custodian over them. 42 It is Allah that takes the souls (of men) at death; and those that die not (He takes) during their sleep: those on whom He has passed the decree of death, He keeps back (from returning to life), but the rest He sends (to their bodies) for a term appointed. Verily in this are Signs for those who reflect. 43. What! Do they take for intercessors others besides Allah? Say: "Even if they have no power whatever and no intelligence?" 44. Say: "To Allah belongs exclusively (the right to grant) intercession: to Him belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth: In the End, it is to Him that ye shall be brought back." 45. When Allah, alone, is mentioned, the hearts of those who believe not in the Hereafter are filled with disgust; but when (gods) other than He are mentioned, behold, they are filled with joy!" Do you think I agree with a group without a legitimate reason? God takes everyone by night...however, to some he keeps them...to some, he returns, to some he gives them knowledge. BUT NONE intercedes...unlike what the fabricated hadith teaches. That Prophet Muhammad went to heaven and reduced prayers by interceding for his nation...yada yada yada yada yada! Also, the verse above tells that everyone is taken by God. We just don't know what is done with everyone! WHY, in the world, would I be in idolrty by God's Mercy upon me to understand the Qur`an without anyone's help??? God made me a believer...who worships Him alone, who obeys His Messenger, who loves His Messenger. God tells me that he has MADE easy in my tongue, and my understanding and my rememberance -- is God lying to me? NO! God knows the unjust! You're denying the coming Messenger after Muhammad -- just know that 3.81 is on your neck...NOT mine! Why not translate it to us...and explain it to us, eh? OH, I forgot, as far as you're concerned, Muhammad(pbuh) was devine! RIGHT! You said: [Ahmed said "everything that God sends, INCLUDING Angels, are Messengers" Well, is Ahmed a sent messenger from Allah and is that why he preaches to the Somalis on here? :-) Ahmed is here again contradicting himself and doing his usaul flip flopping: In one time, he said-----"every messenger is a messenger...but not every messenger is a Prophet!"----and in another time Ahmed said--------"every prophet is a messenger",----and now Ahmed is saying----"not every messenger gets to be a Prophet"!!! I mean is this guy Ahmad OKAY or is he a confused fellow? :-) ] I never said I was sent by God -- I'm MERELY sharing what I believe to be the Truth. Do you not hear me when I tell you that I don't give a heck if anyone ever believes it? My point is to give somalis the chance to know -- and let them each decide whatever they wanna believe. I did not contradict myself, Umar, though you'd love it; ONE: I said; EVERY Messenger is a messenger. That is true. TWO: I also said; Every Prophet is a messenger; that is ALSO true. THREE: I also said; EVERY Messenger is NOT a Prophet; that is also true. ONE: Everything that God sends are Messengers. TWO: A Prophet is something that God sent --- so every Prophet is a Messenger. Three: NOT every Messenger is given a BOOK(which makes him a Prophet) -- thus, not every messenger is a Prophet. Do yah gather? And, don't ya worry, Bro...nothin` is wrong with me. I'm as clear as crystal -- however, those who have doubts...are not! :) You said; [Ahmed said "The one who utters new Laws is a Prophet(because he is given a BOOK)..." But Ahmed does not know that every prophet was not GIVEN a BOOK.] HAAHAHAHAH! Puhllleeezzz! The ONE who utters NO NEW LAWS are Messengers --- this is why the one who utters new laws become PROPHETS. The point of giving Books are so that they can change the laws that preceeded them. All the Messengers who were not given BOOKS only ruled what came before them -- and only brought people back to what they astrayed from. Where the ones given the Books had the pleasure of bringing NEW stuff to the religion. Let me know if you don't agree! You said; [Ahmed said "people are going up and down about *SUBMITTERS*...need I to tell you that *submitters* means *muslims* in English???" Well, Ahmed is denying that *SUBMITTERS* submit, obey and believe the *SAYINGS* of a man who claimed to have been a messenger from Allah---these people are also known as the FOLLOWERS OF RASHAD KHALIFA. :-)] I'm not denying that...and also talked about it in my post. I was talking about the meanings of the words. Umar, I once was in an Arab Forum where a Muslim Arab and Jewish Arab fought over *Talut* and *SAUL* -- these two names are truly in the same person; a King for the Israelites appointed by God. The two guys went up and down about who is who. So, i was just getting the point across. And, no, silly, i'm not *likewise* a prophet sent to somalis...but like the prophets and the believers, I do not care IF or IF NOT my preaching is taken. The intention is to let them know...and it's their DECISION to decide wheather they want to believe it or not. No soul is upon the neck of any other soul, Umar. IF none ever believes what I believe...or if the whole world believes what I believe, it's the same to me. Laha`riot! Single Lady, Good job! You remember the saying, don't yah? "Shimbirba shimbirkiisuu la duulaa!" I appreciate and it makes me feel good that you want your kind of thought/belief, etc. It sure is nice to know that there are some of somalis girls like that! God bless you -- and I hope you have a good life with a good husband whom you're the same! :) Blessed BE! Peace, Ahmad!
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| | Unrecorded Date THE OUTHORITY OF THE PROPHET AND HIS SUNNAH.(by Akramy Safadi). (In the Name of Allah, the Compassionate, the Merciful All praise be to Allah, and peace be upon His slaves whom He has chosen. Notes on the Hadith and Sunnah: The authority of the Prophet and his Sunnah 28.November.1995 1. It was among the duties of all messengers to make the message clear The Qur'an 14:4, {And We have never sent a messenger except with the tongue of his people that he might make clear to them.} 2. Allah Most High taught His Messenger and explained the Qur'an to him The Qur'an 75:16-19, {Move not your tounge with it to hasten it. Surely it is upon Us to gather it and to recite it. So, when We recite it, follow its recitation. Then surely it is upon Us to make it clear.} The Qur'an 4:113, {And He has sent down upon you the Book and the wisdom, and has taught you what you did not know before.} 3. Among the duties of the Messenger of Allah is to teach the Book and the wisdom The Qur'an 16:44, {And We have sent down unto you the revelations (al-Dhikr ) that you might make clear to humankind that which has been sent down to them.} The Qur'an 62:2, {He it is who has sent among the unlettered ones a messenger of their own; to recite unto them His ayah-s (verses), and to purify them, and to teach them the Book and the wisdom.} 4. Allah has inspired His Messenger the wisdom The Qur'an 4:113, {And He has sent down upon you the Book and the wisdom, and has taught you what you did not know before.} The Qur'an 33:34, {And mention that which is recited in your houses of the ayah-s of Allah and the wisdom.} The Qur'an 53:1-4, {By the star when it goes down, your companion is neither astray nor being misled, nor does he speak of desire, it is naught except an inspiration (wahy) that is inspired.} 5. Allah has guided and protected His Messenger from any error The Qur'an 42:52-53, {. . . and surely you guide unto a straight path. The path of Allah . . .} The Qur'an 68:4, {And surely you are upon a mighty morality.} The Qur'an 53:1-4, {By the star when it goes down, your companion is neither astray nor being misled, nor does he speak of desire, it is naught except an inspiration that is inspired.} The Qur'an 4:80, {Whoever obeys the Messenger, he thereby surely has obeyed Allah. . .} 6. Allah has commanded us to submit fully to the authority of His Messenger and to obey him The Qur'an 4:65, {But nay, by your Lord, they will not believe until they make you the judge of what is in dispute between them, then they shall find in themselves no dislike of that which you have decreed, and submit in full submission.} The Qur'an 33:36, {It is not for a believing man nor a believing women, when Allah and His Messenger have decreed a matter, to have the choice in their affair; and whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger has surely gone astray in manifest error.} The Qur'an 4:59, {O you who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger and those of you who are in authority; and if you have a dispute concerning any matter, refer it to Allah and His Messenger if you believe in Allah and the Last Day; that is best and more suitable to the end.} The Qur'an 3:32, {Say: Obey Allah and the Messenger. But if they turn away, surely Allah does not love the disbelievers.} The Qur'an 4:80, {Whoever obeys the Messenger, he thereby surely has obeyed Allah, and whoever turns away--We have not send you as a watcher over them.} 7. Allah has commanded us to take His Messenger as the perfect example and to follow him The Qur'an 3:31-32, {Say: If you love Allah, then follow me; Allah will love you and forgive you your sins. Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. Say: Obey Allah and the Messenger. But if they turn away, surely Allah does not love the disbelievers.} The Qur'an 33:21, {Verily in the Messenger of Allah you have a good example for whoever hopes for Allah and the Last Day, and remembers Allah much.} 8. Allah has promised good reward for those who obey and follow His Messenger The Qur'an 4:69, {Whoever obeys Allah and the Messenger--they are with those whom Allah has shown favor, of the prophets, the truthful, the martyrs and the rigthous; and the best of company are they!} 9. Allah has promised punishment for those who disobey His Messenger The Qur'an 24:63, {. . . So let those who go against his (the Prophet) command beware, lest a trial befall them, or there befall them a painful chastisement.} The Qur'an 4:115, {And whoever opposes the Messenger after the guidance has been manifested unto him, and follows other than the believers' way, We appoint for him that unto which he has turned, and expose him him unto hell--a hapless journey's end!} The Qur'an 72:23, {. . . And whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger, surely his is hell-fire, wherin such dwell forever.} 10. Allah has promised to guard His religion, Islam The Qur'an 15:9, {Surely it is We who have sent down the revelations (al-Dhikr), and We surely are its Guardian.} The Qur'an 5:3, {. . . Today I have perfected your religion for you, and have completed My favor upon you, and have approved for you Islam as religion. . .} The Qur'an 3:19, {Verily, the religion with Allah is Islam. . .} The Qur'an 3:85, {And whoever seeks other than Islam as religion, it will not be accepted from him; and in the Hereafter, he will be among the losers.} The Qur'an 9:33, 61:9, {He it is Who has sent His Messenger with the guidance and the Religion of the Truth, that He may cause it to prevail over all religion, even though the disbelievers are averse.} The Qur'an 48:28, {He it is Who has sent His Messenger with the guidance and the Religion of the Truth, that He may cause it to prevail over all religion, and Allah suffices as a Witness.} A k r a m Y S a f a d i Northwestern University, Evanston, IL, USA. ___________________________
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| | Unrecorded Date THE FINALITY OF ALLAH'S APOSTLE (MAY PEACE BE UPON HIM) from KITAAB MUSLIM. Book 30, Number 5677: Jabir reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: The similitude of mine and that of the Apostles is like that of a person who built a house and he completed it and made it perfect but for the space of a brick. People entered therein and they were surprised at it and said: Had there been a brick (it would have been complete in all respects). Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: I am that place where the brick (completing the building is to be placed), and I have come to finalise the chain of Apostles. Also AHMED said the prophet was sinner AND let us hear WHAT HIS WIFE A-ISHA SAID: THE HATRED OF ALLAH'S APOSTLE (MAY PEACE BE UPON HIM) AGAINST SIN AND THE ADOPTING OF A COURSE OF ACTION WHICH IS EASIER TO ADOPT FROM AMONGST THE PERMISSIBLE ACTS Book 30, Number 5752: 'A'isha, the wife of Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him), said that whenever he had to choose between two things he adopted the easier one, provided it was nor sin, but if it was any sin he was the one wio was the farthest from it of the people; and Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) never took revenge from anyone because of his personal grievance, unless what Allah, the Exalted and Glorious, had made inviolable had been violated.
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| | Unrecorded Date AHMED. Before I sleep since I have been working all night I would like to ask you this; Did the submitters provide you a wife too?. I was told they service their MURIIDIS very well. You know MURIIDI since you were sufi one time. Hey man listen! If you visit seattle washington avoid girls over there because some of my relatives moved over there recently. I hope you don't meet them before I put out the word. See ya.
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| | Unrecorded Date Asalama Alaykum Muslims! Bashir, Bro, you work all-night? I work third shift...and I hate it. Trust me, there isn't many people there(so, in that way, it's neat) but it's night...it's against NATURAL(*wajacalnaa layla libaasan, wajacalnaa nahaara macaashan*) remember? it's just against natural. I choose these hours...because it gives me privacy for salat. Also, I won't have to have the boss on my neck every friday prayer..it's awesome...and it sucks; you go figure! haha! As for Submitters providing -- oh, yes; a car, a house, a wife(actually...as much wives as u can have! HEY, Solomon/David did it!) accounts...full of money. Oh, what else, let me think...hhhmmm...they teach you how to *BAKE*(remember??hahah!) uhm, oh, what else?...hhhhmmm, ttthhhiiinnnkkkiinnnnggg...what else did they provide. OH, yeah, they let yah rape and get away with it. What else, oh..yeah, they let yah celebrate pass-over and drink all of the x-tian babies' blood, they are very well equiped with gas-masks(IN-Case saddam decides to send any scuds on us Zionists!) hhhmm, oh, just a lot of benefits that I couldn't get being Muridi!(HEY, but I sure loved eating coffee-beans with Sheikh Bahlul!!! These submitters suckers don't have 100% benefits as them somalis... :(( oh, well, u gotta do what u gotta do, right?) Bashir, tellin` me your new relatives in Seattle is sorta a code to get their hooks on me(so that you can experience some of the benefits them submitters/Zionists pay?)hhhhmmmm, i'll tell ya what...I'll have my people check out. They'll probably in Rainier...or Sea-Tac...or Tukwilla...so, i'll have `em found, deal? :) Sleep better; shall I sing you a lulluby? Want Yocheve's one?(Moshe's mother?)hheheheeh! Nahin, ye sab bhot acha hai, Bhai! :-) laha`riot, Peace, Ahmad!
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| | Unrecorded Date Ahmed said "WELL, haven't I told you already that I TAKE some stuff from the Submitters as I do from other sects? Maybe you're the one who are avoiding that, eh? HAHAHA! Also, had you understood the Qur`an, you'd know what that" But Ahmad and Rashad Khalifa have their own IDOL HADEETH----which the QURAN DOES NOT CONFIRM. So now Ahmad is *admitting* that he got HIS HADEETH FROM the Rashad Khalifa's followers----which mean---Ahmed is: 1---a hypocrite for BELIEVING the same things HE always accuses and blames on the MUSLIMS. 2--Ahmed is also in idolatry? Thus, since Ahmed "keep telling the Somalis that they're in idolatry",-----SOMALIS are MUSHIRKIIN(are in idolatry)------then Ahmed is both a MUNAAFAQ AND MUSHRIK at the same time-----since Ahmed is following the IDOL HADEETH from RASHAD KHALIFA and since Ahmed is pretending to be better than the Somali Muslims.------this is what Ahmed is avoiding to acknowledge. :-) Now, let's look at the TAFSIIR and the LOGIC of Ahmed and Submitters about these verses Ahmed cited: Ahmed said these verses prove that our prophet's SOUL went up to the HEAVENS while his BODY was down on the EARTH. "Verily We! W have send down to thee(O Prophet) the Book(Quran) for mankind with truth. Then whoever receives guidance it is for his own self, and whosoever goes astray, he goes astray only for his own loss. And you(O Muhammad) are not a Wakil(trustee or disposer of affairs, or keeper) over them. It is Allah Who takes away the SOULS at the time of their DEATH, and those who doe not DIE in their SLEEP; then He withholds those on whom He had decreed DEATH, and sends back to the rest for appointed term. Verily herein are sings for those who ponder" Now, is there somewhere in these verses that tell us the prophet's SOUL went up to the HEAVENS to MEET Allah one night and came back with NEWS as Ahmed is trying to tell us? Well, we have our HADEETH and Ahmed and Submitters have their HADEETH that tell us our Prophet was DREAMING while sleeping(while the prophet was partially DEAD) that night and while his SOUL was experiencing this MIRICLIOUS JOUNREY------THE SAME WAY Rashad Khalifa said he experienced when his SOUL was up there and his BODY was on EARTH.! :-) ".....During my Hajj pilgrimage to Mecca, and before sunrise on Tuesday, Zul-Hijjah 3, 1391, December 21, 1971, I, Rashad Khalifa, the *SOUL*, the real person, not the *BODY*, was taken to some place in the universe where I was introduced to all the prophets as God's Messenger of the Covenant. I was not informed of the details and true significance of this event until Ramadan 1408. What I witnessed, in sharp consciousness, was that I was sitting still, while the prophets, one by one, came towards me, looked at my What I witnessed, in sharp consciousness, was that I was sitting still, while the prophets, one by one, came towards me, looked at my face, then nodded their heads. God showed them to me as they had looked in this world, attired in their respective mode of dress. There was an atmosphere of great awe, joy, and respect. Except for Abraham, none of the prophets was identified to me. I knew that all the prophets were there, including Moses, Jesus, Muhamed, Aaron, David, Noah, and the rest. I believe that the reason for revealing Abraham's identity was that I asked about him. I was taken aback by the strong resemblance he had with my own family - myself, my father, my uncles. It was the only time that I wondered, "Who is this prophet who looks like my relatives?" The answer came: "Abraham." No language was spoken. All communication was done mentally. It is noteworthy that the date of this fulfillment of the prophets' covenant was Zul-Hijja 3, 1391............" I do not blame Ahmed for saying: "Do you think I agree with a group(RASHAD KHALIFA'S GROUP) without a legitimate reason?" :-) Then, Ahmed asked "WHY, in the world, would I be in idolrty by God's Mercy upon me to understand the Qur`an without anyone's help???" Well, the same REASON Ahmed thinks "Somalis are in idolatry" :-) Ahmed said t me "You're denying the coming Messenger after Muhammad -- just know that 3.81 is on your neck" ...NOT mine!" Ahmed believes in his own TAFSIIR and the HADEETH of Rashad Khalifa that this verse(3:81) says there will be another messenger after Muhammad. :-) Ahmed asked me "Why not translate it to us...and explain it to us, eh? The translation is clear and the explanation of that verse does not say that there will be another messenger after Muhammad. :-) Ahmed said to me "OH, I forgot, as far as you're concerned, Muhammad(pbuh) was devine! RIGHT" Yes, Muhammad was a SINLESS;PURE, and PERFECT MAN; HE NEVER LIED; NEVER DISOBEYED ALLAH; WAS QULI-QIN CADIIM AND WE CALL HIM OUR HOLY PROPHET---do you have problem with that, Ahmed? :-) "OH, I forgot----that---Ahmed said our prophet was a SINNER(NACUUDU BILAAH)-----but Ahmed also said PROPHET'S DO NOT COMMIT SIN. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm! This the contradicting nature of Ahmed and his usual flip flopping. Earlier, Ahmed said "The one who utters new Laws is a Prophet(because he is given a BOOK)..." Then, I responded "But Ahmed does not know that every prophet was not GIVEN a BOOK.]" Then Ahmed responded this way "HAAHAHAHAH! Puhllleeezzz! The ONE who utters NO NEW LAWS are Messengers --- this is why the one who utters new laws become PROPHETS. The point of giving Books are so that they can change the laws that preceeded them." Well, as I said, Ahmed does not know every prophet was not GIVEN a BOOK. For example----NABI HAARUUN was not GIVEN a BOOK. He was a PROPHET whose JOB was to be a WASIIR of HIS brother MUUSE. :-) Ahmed should learn the QURAN and stop agreeing with the RASHAD KHALIFA'S FOLLOWERS. :-) Ahmed said "And, no, silly, i'm not *likewise* a prophet sent to somalis" Well, Ahmed has been SILLY enough through out this discussion to compare himself with the prophets of Allah-----However, on the contrary, Ahmed is a SINNER just like everyone of us, but the PROPHETS of ALLAH are SINLESS and EXCEPTIONAL HUMAN BEING. :-)
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| | Unrecorded Date Asalama Alaykum Muslims! UMAR, HA HA HA HA HA HA HA! WOW! Aaron was NOT given a book??? OY VEY! What a LIE! Really???? Hhhhmmmm, what a world! [114. Again (of old) We bestowed Our favor on Moses and Aaron, 115. And We delivered them and their people from (their) Great distress; 116. And We helped them, so they were victorious; 117. And We gave them the Book which helps to make things clear; 118. And We guided them to the Straight Way. 119. And We left for them among generations (to come) in later times: 120. "Peace and salutation to Moses and Aaron!"] Chapter 37! ALSO; "21.48 In the past We granted to Moses and Aaron the Criterion (for judgment), and a Light and a Message for those who would do right,-" There isn't any Prophet who was not given a Book. The ones who are not given the Book are the Messengers(with nothing else)! The Messenger Prophets are given Book, but Messenger messengers are not given a book...but their duty is to confirm that which comes before them! Muslims make the Tablets as the Book given only to Moses. The point is, the Tablets are NOT book but a commandments part of the Book -- the Torah was revealed to both of them...and NOT just Moses. And, EVEN if the Tablets were a book, Moses got it...while Aaron was with the Israelites -- which gives him a job to do! heeheh! you see, either way...God is gracious! :) The whole point of Aaron becoming a Prophet was to help Moses deliver the Message -- due to Prophet Moses' prayer to God that his Brother should be assigned with him...and so did God. WITH him...not after him -- or to look after him. As usual, you left parts of the verses...you didn't get the verses. Bahoo! I never agree with people, Umar, unless it is based on the Qur`an -- would I do anything less than that, I would be one of the losers! Ah, sufficient is the God who sent down the Qur`an; full of Wisdom! ALSO, Umar, the True Believers are those whom God and the Angels send blessings upon them all the time. Anyone whom God and Angels send blessings upon -- is given a gracious gift! Blessed is the Lord of the Believers! Yes, Umar, Muhammad was a SINLESS;PURE, and PERFECT MAN; HE NEVER LIED; NEVER DISOBEYED ALLAH; WAS QULI-QIN CADIIM AND WE CALL HIM OUR HOLY PROPHET, ALONG WITH OTHER PROPHET(sorry u forgot!)...and He was STILL not devine! You go figure! Like X-tians and Jews...you'll probably think I contradict myself, but do I? :) Laha`riot! Peace, Ahmad!
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| | Unrecorded Date Salaamu Caleykum Brothers and Sisters. I asked this question previously; Why is Ahmad trying to unhinge and uproot the very foundations of same religion he/she alleges to believe in? I had opined, it would make a lot of sense if what this guy is doing (attacking Islam) were coming from a declared ENEMY of Islam. However, he is a ‘Muslim’ scandalising and undermining Islam. Now it is obvious this man is a man with a (paid) mission: not only to disparage and belittle the status of Hadith vis-à-vis Islam, but surely, in an escalating manner, to disqualify and invalidate Islam as a whole, as we have known for 1400 years. Yaa Muslims, we have seen how a lot brothers and sisters (I really sympathise) have tried in vain to convince and persuade Ahmad in the hope of redeeming Ahmad from his own perverted and twisted mind-set. What is shocking is that instead of achieving what brother Ansaari called ‘in bal Ilaahay ninkan soo hanuuniyo’, Ahmad has continued (with much more impunity) to write spurious falsehoods and derogatory epithets about everything Islam. Consequently, the debate has spiralled from questioning the authority of the hadith to attacks on Prophet Mohamed himself to blaspheming Islam and NOW THE CLAIM OF MESSENGERHOOD BY AHMAD HIMSELF! Now my question is MUST we continue to debate with this mad person? Yaa Muslimiin. Don’t you think we are giving him undue attention? I mean, by continuing to debate with him, are we not giving his sick ideas undeserved life and currency? Need we continue to prove the impossibility of reasoning with Ahmad? What is there that is left to know about Ahmad the submitter? Truly it is my considered opinion that this unfortunate episode has to end. In which case I suggest we IGNORE Ahmad. Quarantine is the word! Wassalaamu Caleykum. Psst. What does the SomaliNet forums rules say about: 1. Someone blaspheming Islam? 2. Someone using their forums to spread spurious and mad theories? 3. Someone preaching falsehoods? 4. Someone gaining financially from his participation is their forums?
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| | Unrecorded Date Mumin Salamu Caleykum akhee, Qof walba, culumo & caamaba oo halkan soo booqda wuu garan karaan in Axmed wax kororsi & cilmi raadis aheyn, balse uu uyimid in uu asaga dadka wax u dhigo oo la dhageysto. Akhee, I agree with you 100%, when you said: "Now it is obvious this man is man with a (paid) mission" taasna waxaa cadeeyn kara oo aad ka garan kartaa sheekooyinkiisa oon isku xir-xirneen & asaga oo wuxuuu ka hadlayo garaneyn isna burinaya. Dadka wuu xiijiyaa, asaguse waa camalkiisiyoo oo uu gudanayo, wixii loo soo dhiibo ayuunbuu inoo soo drop-gareeya. Walaal, in laga aamuso ma fiicna ayaan qabaa, waayo wuxuu jaanis uhelayaa ummada halkan joogta oo uu isaga dhigayaa "wadaad mumina". Fiiri hadda, meeshan oo dhan waa laga yaqaan, oo nasiib wanaag cid maanta wax ka dhageysan karta ma lahan, mahadaasna waxaa iska leh Allaah. Annigu waxaan qabaa in la ignore-gareeyo qoraaladiisa oon lala dhibayt-garayn (since he's not debatale), balse dushaas lagala socdo ummadana looga digo. To. Axmed Hi!, mr. Logico Have your salary been raised 50%, since you had been aktive and made some progress with your debating here in this forums? :) Ad waa kutoostey intiis oo USA joogtid lee, muggoo haddaas berriga Somalia joogi leheed ma lagu arkeen. Waxaas lagugu xukmi lahaa dil toogasho ah "blasphemy". ma kasinoo?
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| | Unrecorded Date Ahmed cited two verses that he thinks Haruun was given a Book. 37: 117 ---"21.48. 37:117--"And We gave them(Muuse and Haruun) a Book luminous"-----21:48--"And indeed We gave to Muuse and Haruun the criterion and illumination and an admonition for the Allah-fearing." Now, Muslims, unlike Ahmed and submitters, know that prophet Haruun was the lieutenant of Muuse(the WASIIR). The Book was primarily AND principally GIVEN to MUUSE---as Haruun being his WASIIR(lieutenant). Many places in the Quran, Allah mentioned only the name MUUSE being GIVEN the BOOK(the torah). "And indeed We GAVE Muuse, after We had destroyed the generations of old, the SCRIPTURE(the BOOK--the TORAH), enlightenment to mankind and a guidance and a mercy, that haply they be admonished" In the Quran, Allah said about Muuse and Haruun this: "And mention thou(O Muhammad) in the Book(in the Quran) Muuse; he was single-hearted, and was a messenger(and)prophet. And We cried unto him from the right side of the mount, and We drew him night for whispering(for having a private discourse with Us). We GAVE him, out of Our Mercy, his brother Haruun, a prophet" Suratul-Maryam. 51-3. Muuse who was both said to Allah "appoint for me a Minster from my household--Haruun, my brother" Suratul Taha. 29-8.-------"And assuredly We GAVE the BOOK to MUUSE and We place his brother Haruun with him as a Minster" Suratul Furqan. 35.----"Muuse said: Lord! I fear he will belie me(Fircoon) and my breast straitens(on such occasion) and my tongue moves no quickly: so send for Haruun(to come along with me and to be my assistant)" Suratul Shura 13-----"And assuredly Haruun had said to them beforehand: O my people! you are only being tempted with it, and verily you Lord is the Compassionate, so follow me and obey my command. They said: we shall by no means cease to be assiduous to it unit Muuse comes back to us. Muuse said: O Haruun! what prevented you when you saw them going astray; that you followed me not? Have you then disobeyed my command? Haruun said: my brother! hold me not by my beard nor by my head; really I feared lest you should say: You have caused a division among the Children of Israel and have not kept my word." Suratul Taha 90-4.---"And assuredly We sent Muuse with Our signs: and a clear authority" Suratul Mumin 24.--"And prior to it there has been the BOOK of Muuse----a guidance and a mercy. And this is a Book confirming it in Arabic speech, that it may warn those who have done wrong and as glad tidings to the well-doers" Suratul Axqaf. 12.---"And assuredly We GAVE the BOOK to Muuse and there arose difference concerning it....." Suratul Xamin Sajda 45.----"And recall when We GAVE to Muuse the BOOK and the distinction(the criterion) that haply you may be rightly guided" Suratul Baqra 53----"And to Muuse We GAVE the BOOK, perfect for him who would do good and detailing everything and a guidance and a blessing, that perhaps in the meeting of their Lord they would believe"--Suratul Ancaam 154.----"And assuredly We GAVE BOOK to Muuse, and disputation arose thereabout........."Suratul Hud 110.-----and on and....where I Allah mentioning the name Muuse ONLY in the Quran many times....... What about Nabi Luqman(a prophet)?-------was he GIVEN a BOOK too? :-) Watch Ahmed confused with the term XIKMA and scripture(a BOOK). :-) Ahmed said to me "As usual, you left parts of the verses...you didn't get the verses." I wonder if Ahmed can show us where in those verses that tell us the prophet's SOUL went up to the HEAVENS to MEET Allah one night and came back with NEWS as Ahmed is trying to tell us---the verses 39: 41-5----- :-) Ahmed said this: "I never agree with people, Umar, unless it is based on the Qur`an -- would I do anything less than that, I would be one of the losers! Ah, sufficient is the God who sent down the Qur`an; full of Wisdom!" Ahmed said that while responding to this: "Thus, since Ahmed "keep telling the Somalis that they're in idolatry",-----SOMALIS are MUSHIRKIIN(are in idolatry)------then Ahmed is both a MUNAAFAQ AND MUSHRIK at the same time-----since Ahmed is following the IDOL HADEETH from RASHAD KHALIFA and since Ahmed is pretending to be better than the Somali Muslims.------this is what Ahmed is avoiding to acknowledge. :-) Now, let's look at the TAFSIIR and the LOGIC of Ahmed and Submitters about these verses Ahmed cited: Ahmed said these verses prove that our prophet's SOUL went up to the HEAVENS while his BODY was down on the EARTH. "Verily We! We have send down to thee(O Prophet) the Book(Quran) for mankind with truth. Then whoever receives guidance it is for his own self, and whosoever goes astray, he goes astray only for his own loss. And you(O Muhammad) are not a Wakil(trustee or disposer of affairs, or keeper) over them. It is Allah Who takes away the SOULS at the time of their DEATH, and those who doe not DIE in their SLEEP; then He withholds those on whom He had decreed DEATH, and sends back to the rest for appointed term. Verily herein are sings for those who ponder" Now, is there somewhere in these verses that tell us the prophet's SOUL went up to the HEAVENS to MEET Allah one night and came back with NEWS as Ahmed is trying to tell us? Well, we have our HADEETH and Ahmed and Submitters have their HADEETH that tell us our Prophet was DREAMING while sleeping(while the prophet was partially DEAD) that night and while his SOUL was experiencing this MIRICLIOUS JOUNREY------THE SAME WAY Rashad Khalifa said he experienced when his SOUL was up there and his BODY was on EARTH.! :-) ".....During my Hajj pilgrimage to Mecca, and before sunrise on Tuesday, Zul-Hijjah 3, 1391, December 21, 1971, I, Rashad Khalifa, the *SOUL*, the real person, not the *BODY*, was taken to some place in the universe where I was introduced to all the prophets as God's Messenger of the Covenant. I was not informed of the details and true significance of this event until Ramadan 1408. What I witnessed, in sharp consciousness, was that I was sitting still, while the prophets, one by one, came towards me, looked at my What I witnessed, in sharp consciousness, was that I was sitting still, while the prophets, one by one, came towards me, looked at my face, then nodded their heads. God showed them to me as they had looked in this world, attired in their respective mode of dress. There was an atmosphere of great awe, joy, and respect. Except for Abraham, none of the prophets was identified to me. I knew that all the prophets were there, including Moses, Jesus, Muhamed, Aaron, David, Noah, and the rest. I believe that the reason for revealing Abraham's identity was that I asked about him. I was taken aback by the strong resemblance he had with my own family - myself, my father, my uncles. It was the only time that I wondered, "Who is this prophet who looks like my relatives?" The answer came: "Abraham." No language was spoken. All communication was done mentally. It is noteworthy that the date of this fulfillment of the prophets' covenant was Zul-Hijja 3, 1391............" Ahmed said to me "Umar, the True Believers are those whom God and the Angels send blessings upon them all the time. Anyone whom God and Angels send blessings upon -- is given a gracious gift!" How can a hypocrite Ahmed be one of the true "Believers"----the same Ahmed who says Prophet Muhammad is a SINNER? I mean what kind of "gracious gift" does Ahmed have----except the "gift" of saying---prophets of Allah are not EXCEPTIONAL HUMAN BEING and that they are SINNERS like Ahmed and Umar? :-) Ahmad said to t me "Yes, Umar, Muhammad was a SINLESS;PURE, and PERFECT MAN; HE NEVER LIED; NEVER DISOBEYED ALLAH; WAS QULI-QIN CADIIM AND WE CALL HIM OUR HOLY PROPHET, ALONG WITH OTHER PROPHET(sorry u forgot!)...and He was STILL not devine! You go figure! Like X-tians and Jews...you'll probably think I contradict myself, but do I? :)" Ahmed is contradicted himself as usual and he does not even know it: Before, Ahmed said that prophet Muhammad committed SIN, but in another time and even now Ahmed is saying Prophet's do not COMMIT SIN! Also, Ahmed agrees with me that we call the prophets of Allah HOLY prophets-----HOWEVER, Ahmed denies that prophets are not DIVINE. I mean what is the difference in Ahmed's LOGIC or his dictionary----the term *HOLY* and *DIVINE*? I thought Ahmed has been contradicting himself knowingly before------but I now it is clear that Ahmed does not now what he is talking about. :-) Ahmed should look up his dictionary what the term *HOLY* means before he contradicts himself anymore----- 1--SACRED-----2--BLESSED-----3--DIVINE. :-)
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| | Unrecorded Date Brothers/sisters. Assalaamu caleykum. From today on I decided that it is unworhty debating with AHMED. I don't care about the somalinet management. May be by letting AHMED SUBMITTER insult Islam and MOHAMMED scw which in return brings many opposition from muslims will benefit them, It will be upto them. Besides, Not every somali name or bussiness is ISLAMIC anyways. Anything could be the reason behind websites. We have seen tribal websites, Suckup to Kuffar websites and a lot worse. So what is the biggy here?. Well all I can say is, O'people learn your religion from THE MOSQUES AND MUSLIMS who love the prophet and his companions. I doubt if you lodge a complaint against AHMED, your complaints won't take a heed. This is bussiness guys. Keep in mind, the more loggers on tha service, the better the deal. Wasalaam.
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| | Unrecorded Date Correction: Ahmed denies that prophets ARE DIVINE.
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| | Unrecorded Date Ahmed, You are disgusting. Hey are you sure you are a muslim? Did they require you to submit Somali person to the organization, before you get eccepted? You said that you are alllowed to rape, could you tell me who gave you the authority, when Allah(sw) porhibited such acties in the Quran? Wasalamu Caleykum
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| | Unrecorded Date Delivery. Ahmed gaal iska ilaaliya. Bashir wrote january 24 2000. Yaa muslimiin AHMED meeshuu wax kasoo koobiyo kaalaya arka. Intuu afsoomaali ku dhex daro ayuu iska dhigaa NIN ISGA QOREY. TUUG LA QABTEY TALO MALEH. I am not SUBMITTER, Call It AHMODOLOGY! Hey AHMED, what did you think WE ARE GAALYOHOW IBLIISKA DHASHIISA AH. http://www.submission.org/eve.html http://www.submission.org/jews.html http://www.submission.org/mo-write.html Saddexdaas waa saddexdii mawduuc oo ahaa. SALAADDA. Ahmed waatuu ku doodey in salaadda sida yuhuudda loo tukado oo nabi mahammed waxba la imaan. Walaalayaaloow hitaaa sawirro ayaa ku yaal. Muslims blame EVE like christians do. oo aan aragney. IYO MOWDUUCAN OO CINWAANAK UU KA BADDALEY OO AHAAN LAHAA. Mohammed wrote the QURAN hase yeeshee wuu beddeley si loo aqristo. suit yourselves gys.
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| | Unrecorded Date BROTHER BASHIR, WOOOOOOOOW! I HAVE BEEN SKEPTICAL BEFORE ABOUT HIM BEING A SUBMITTER, BUT THIS TIME YOU NAILED HIM BIG TIME, BROTHER BASHIR. WOW! NICE DETECTIVE WORK! COPYING AND CHANGING WORDS TO LOOK LIKE HE WROTE IT AND ADDING SOME SOMALI WORDS. HEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEH.
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| | Unrecorded Date Dear Brothers and sisters From the first minute I had seen Ahmad’s comments, I knew he was a submitter no matter how strong and how mournfully he tried to deny that fact, but I always thought that was out of knowledgeable conviction (I hoped at least the person knew what he was talking about). I have constantly seen how he contradicts himself in a very untenable way and I thought that was too out of unsharpened arrogance, but now after I have visited the links brother Bashir provided where Ahmad copies word for word from whatever he writes in this forums, I finally understood why Ahmad talks about donkeys while we passionately talk about camels. I also understood why Ahmad oscillates and flip-flops in argumentative maze while he is confronted with simple clear directive. I also understand now why Ahmad is increasingly paranoid and confused with himself, regarding whether to go ahead with his messengerhood claim or wait for a while. The man simply does not write what he knows and certainly he does not argue what he perceives. Rather Ahmad copies (with slight editing) from those links and it is not surprising at all why the man can not argue his point. (Because it is simply not HIS!) I have visited these links http://www.submission.org/eve.html http://www.submission.org/jews.html http://www.submission.org/mo-write.html And I have seen a conclusive evidence of Ahmad’s copy and paste skills. We can ascertain from here how impossible it is to argue a viewpoint via a delivery boy, for the delivery boy can easily get stuck when the roads of reason close on him and he can only fluctuate in his little entangled world. Therefore, I have a little message for the delivery boy to convey back to his masters. The message is Ahmad; Bring your masters to debate with us, at least we hope they can argue their viewpoint if it is theirs! Walaalayaal; Waxaan ogeyn in Ahmad ahaa qof submitter ah sababtoo ah submittersku waxay u taagan yihiin oo dhan waa wax iska cad, balse waxaan moodi jiray in Ahmad ugu yaraan ay doodahani ka yihiin wax uu aaminsan yahay cilmina u leeyahay, waxaan dhowr mar la yaabi jiray siday Ahmad hadaladiisu sida qaabka daran isu buriyaan iyo sida uu u cantaaho marka dood laga helo, waxaan is oran jiray waa arin aan submitarsiku ceeb u ahayn caadana ka dhigteen (madax adayga.) Maantase markaan soo booqday bogaga linkiga ah ee walaalkeen Bashiir soo helay waxaan ogaaday sababaha Ahmad ku kalifay arimaha aan kor ku soo xusnay. Waxaan ogaaday in Ahmad alahiisba alle iska yahay oo fariin wade uun yahay. Marka aad tagto bogaga aan soo sheegay waxaad si aan shaki ku jirin u arkeysaa sida Ahmad usoo daabaco doodaha halkan ka socda asagoon wax gacan ah ka geysan arimaha uu so guurinayo. Hadaba waxaynu ognahay in aysan suurta galeyn in doodi ka dhex socoto dad loo kala fariin geynayo, waxaana Ahmad ku leenahay macalimiintaada noo keen waxaa dhici karta in ay ugu yaraan ayagu ku doodi karaan aragtidooda haday ayaga leeyihiin. Waxaan kaloo jeclahay sida ay walaalaheen qaarkoodaba ay u weydiiyeen maamulka Somalinet waxa ay ka qabaan arinta aflagaadeynta nabi Maxamed nabad gelyo iyo naxariis korkiisa ha ahaatee, anaga oon wax dhib ah ka qabin in aan wixii cilmi ah ku doodno (ayadoo la kala duwanaan karo) ayaa hadana su’aasha meesha taala waxa ay tahay in hadii aflagaadeynta qabiilka uusan maamulku ogoleyn miyeysan ka sii xaq laheyn in aan la ogolaanin wixii aflagaado loo geysto nabiga iyo asxaabtiisaba? Waxaase dhici karta in walaalaha haya mamulka Somalinet aysan si joogta ah u soo booqan karin bog kasta, muhiimna ay noqoneyso in email loo wada diro (aniga ayaana bilaabaya). Waad mahadsan tihiin.
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| | Unrecorded Date Brothers and sisters, Ahmed claimed before-----on another discussion about the prayers where he said----the Jews prayed exactly like the Muslims pray now----remember? I visited the site brother Bashir found out and where Ahmed copied his arguments. Remember that time Ahmed said a Jew RABI wrote a book about how the early Children of Israel--the ancient Jews-- prayed-------Ahmed argued that there is a DIAGRAM showing them--the ancient Jews--prostrating and kneeling down? Well, that DIAGRAM is one of the sites brother Bashir found out---where Ahmed copied and changed the words: http://www.submission.org/jews.html And before the PICTURE OR the DIAGRAM on the submitters page it reads this: "In a book entitles "To Pray as a Jew" I found a lengthy explanation of the Prayers as done by the ancient Jews and few of the contemporary Jews. In this book the author put diagrams showing the movement and positions during the prayer. A one look at these diagram is enough for the Muslims to realize the similarity of the prayers of the Jews then and Salat as practiced by the Muslims" Well now, the funny question is---if you have seen the PICTURE OR the DAIGRAM------:-) These people are wearing pants and shirts. :-). I mean did the Children of Israel--- the ancient Jews---wore that kind of clothes? :-)
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| | Unrecorded Date Jazakallah brother Bashir. (I sent you e-mail today) Walaalayaal waad u jeediin. Axmed waa la qabtey. Horeyna waanu u ogeyn haddana Allaah ayaa facsharay. Walaalayaal submittersku ( http://www.geocities.com/~abdulwahid/muslimarticles/cons_submitters.html ) waa daad gaalo ah oo yahuudu fan gareyso. Axmed inuu diintiisi "beeso" (Worldy life) siistay waanu aragney, markaa innaga maxaa innala gudboon in aanu suubino?. Meelo badan sida ASFA Discussion Board ( http://sunnah.org/forums/enter.htm ) oo ahlu sunnaha lee yihiin ayaan nac-nacdiisa ku arki jirey, balse waa laga eryay, by deleting all his postings. Xataa IG-Forum, Islamic Gateway Forum ( http://www.ummah.net/forums ) waa uga dhamaatey. Axmed Submitter wuxuu yiri: "Waxaan jiraa 21 sano, diinta krishtaanka & mida yuhuuda & quraankaba kuli waan aqaanaa oo ingiriisi ayaan ku bartey." Bal siduu isu hafrayo eega, beentiisa. Hadda howshu waxeey u taal qoloda somaliNetka iyo siddii aay uga mamnuuci lahaayeen meesha. Ha ogaadeen qoloda SomaliNetku in Aakhiro loo qabsan doono "kaalintooda" aay u ogolaadeen in Axmed isticmaalo kanaalkooda si uu caayo Diinta Alle & Nabigiisa si waliba kas (ula kaca ah) ah oon la dhihi karin waa cilmi xumo. Waxaan rajeynayaa in somaliNetku soo bandhigi doonaan arrintan & halka aay ka joogaanba.
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| | Unrecorded Date Salaamu 'alaekum liman taba'al hudaa Umar, Nur, Ansaari, Bashir Abdi, Mu'mun, Yaasmiin, Muna, Caaliya,Walaalkiin, Deeqa, and the rest of crew of this crusider-ship I am proud all of you , you did great job,..You caught him(ahmad-gaal) with iron hand and locked where he belongs in small cage. I told him right from his frist post, that he bought one-way ticket. What now Ahmad-Gaal? jump to another topic?I am affraid we are like carate film situation.... You.. you are so weak, call your masters...said Bruce Lee!!! :-) About SomaliNet People: I personally would like to heard their story!!!!.. First we (users)are content providers and they just manages these contents, what we are asking from them is just matter of control!. What about if they refuse to take action concerning this matter? any proposal, what to do next??
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| | Unrecorded Date TO ALL MUSLIMS, BREAKING NEWS!!!!!!!! AHMED KADAAB EXPOSED. NO MORE LIES KADAAB AND YOU ARE NOT EVEN WORTH TO BE CALLED THE NAME OF THE OUR BELOVED PROPHET. AHMED? KADAAB.
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| | Unrecorded Date Concerning AHMAD, i do not see why you all have to jump him. I think it is very interseting how muslims what to learn more, in the quran god says to our prophet peace be upon him go to the ends of china in search for knowlegde. This shows the importance to what to learn more, ahmed wants to understand as he finds something in what he has read confusing and does not make sense, if there is someone out there who can answer what he has asked answer it but do not shut him out. it seems he is trying to contridict but that is not it, as muslims we should be open to questions, and as i already know there is know question that the quran can not answer and so ther is nothing to fear to ahmed i would like to say well done in your search to understand and may god help you and i i hope all other muslims too. may peace be upon us all
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| | Unrecorded Date ahmed you say the following lines, i am all the way for your search in the truth. so could you help me could you please write down the the whole phrass which leads you to believe what you have written below. People need to understand something. Muhammad had TWO personalities; MUHAMMAD and the MESSENGER. Muhammad was the man...who was like any other man---who even made grave mistakes.(please, refer to 66.1) Where Muhammad forbidden himself something that was lawful to him.
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| | Unrecorded Date asalama alaykum muslims, umar, sorry, brother, i was gone for a while...due to my research -- and limited time on the internet. muhammad, the man, is the guy who god corrects him -- in what is and is not lawful. muhammad, the messenger, is the guy who god asks his creations TO OBEY him. one is devine -- and the other is not...and he is ALL in one man. all humans really need to know is that -- he IS falliable messenger, a human messenger...and not some pawn god who came down on earth, sinless and mistakeless. the most tragic thing humans do -- is make humans more than they're. this is not only idol-worship...but spits on god's face for all the good things he gives them -- starting with INTELLIGENCE. muna, finally, someone with common sense. peace to you. peace - ahmad
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| | Unrecorded Date to ahmad 66.1 could you please write out for me what it says and how that leads you to believe that our profet was not perfect.
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| | Unrecorded Date asalama alaykum muslims, relation, ha! what a nice name! FIRST of all, our prophet was NOT 'perfect'. maybe this will help you: HUMANS are weak(4.26) MESSENGERS are no more than human beings(14.11) so you can forget about the "perfect". SECOND, please read the verse(AND its historical background); [66:1] O you prophet, why do you prohibit what GOD has made lawful for you, just to please your wives? GOD is Forgiver, Merciful. [we learn from this discourse is that about the Holy Messenger himself, whose reverence and respect Allah Himself has enjoined as a necessary part of the Faith of His servants, it has been stated in this Surah that once during his sacred life he made a thing declared lawful by Allah unlawful for himself only to please his wives] Chapter Introductions to the Qur'an by Syed Abu-Ala' Maududi. our prophet, ya relation, was a human being -- chosen among us...to lead us to god and his straight path. when people treat him 'perfect'(subhannalah!) then people worship him beside the PERFECT being; god. such people cannot claim to be god's people. peace - ahmad!
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