This section is online for reference only. No new content will be added. no deletion either...
Go to Current Forums ...with millions of posts
     | Unrecorded Date Sorry guys, I had to do this to accomodate those who would like to continue talking to ahmed. Incase you suspect I like what Ahmed writes, rest assured that I don't. I don't share any of his submitter views. 1- Unlike Ahmed, I believe our prophet was the last of all messengers and prophets. 2- Unlike Ahmed, I pray the way the prophet prayed and read the Prayers(salliga) for both prophets Abraham and Mohamed. 3-Unlike Ahmed, I don't believe that prophet wrote the quran. Because when first Gabriel commanded the prophet to read, the prophet replied "maa anaa biqaari'in" or I don't read. In that case SUBMITTERS AND AHMED are liers and like christians and jews who accused the prophet to have copied the quran. 4-Unlike Ahmed, I don't check into each group thinking they may be right or have the correct path because the prophet said "I leave behind me two things Alquran wassunna" "Hold them tight with your teeth" "And I warn you against the INNOVATIONS, because each innovation(into religion) is astray, And all astrays go TO HELL". So submitters are going to hell and Ahmed will join them if he does not repent inshallah. 5- Unlike Ahmed, I don't legalize songs. 6-Unlike Ahmed, I don't accuse the sahabah of being liers and fabricators. 7-Unlike Ahmed, I don't consider quoting the bible is worth since quran says"If you have a dispute amonst you, refer to ALLAH and HIS MESSENGER" in that case there is no need to go around looking for guidance and support from the BIBLE. The list is long guys. I did this to avoid your deserved anger and curses. I hope this debates will enlighten ahmed in the end will realize that Islam is the way.
|
| | Unrecorded Date By umar on Thursday, February 3, 2000 - 02:52 am: Ahmed said: "Lying always never gets anyone anywhere, Umar. I never admire Rashad Khalifa" Well, it is not a lie that Ahmed admires the KADAAB, for Ahmed's job is to copy things from the web-site of Rashad Khalifa while promoting the Rashad Khalifa's teachings on to this forums. If Ahmed does not admire the KADAAB, why he didn't mention all these times that he was really copying things from the web-site of Rashad Khalifa's followers established and selling Rashad Khalifa's teachings---until Bashir exposed him? Well, cheating or plagiarizing things is what a hypocrite does---if fact---they say---an *imitation* is the best form of flattery(adulation or admiration). Ahmed said that Rashad Khalifa was "one smart man" and lots of people follow him and join his path every day! Well, SATAN was *one smart" creature too, the KADAAB himself, but he still rejected Allah and he out smarts those who *imitate* him and follow his footsteps.
|
| | Unrecorded Date By Nur (Nur) on Thursday, February 3, 2000 - 07:44 am: Asalamu Alaykum; Ahmad said to me; * Jews are people who want to GET AWAY from the *filthness* of the Gentiles -- throughout history, they were persecuted for this reason...for being SO proud of who they're they wanted their own little world. Now, what in the world...would they benefit from hiring Rashad khalifa??? * Well Ahmad, I was not actually certain that this Rashad Khalifa guy was hired by the Jews, and I do not remember saying it, thanks for the inside information. Although it was an uncontrollable outburst but thanks anyway. Soomaalidaa waxay horey ugu maahmaahdey: wixii uurkaaga ku jiraa afka kaa xada. Regards.
|
| | Unrecorded Date By Ahmad on Sunday, February 6, 2000 - 02:18 am: Asalama Alaykum Muslims! NUR, LOL! HHAHAHAAHAHA! Truly, I sometimes wonder about you. Did I not tell you before that what does NOT concern you are NOT addressed to you??? I was talking about Ansaari’s little ridiculeous comment -- it had nothing to do with you. You were supposed to listen to it -- and then do whatever you wish to it...not respond to it...like it was for you, silly! :) Also, your saying *delivery* sorta brought it up. All just paranoid stuff, Man. And, the reall sad side is -- that it’s ALL of humans. Jews say similar things about Arabs/Muslims, etc. Umar, You said; [Well, it is not a lie that Ahmed admires the KADAAB, for Ahmed's job is to copy things from the web-site of Rashad Khalifa while promoting the Rashad Khalifa's teachings on to this forums.] Huh? *promote*??? What am I missing? Agreeing with Rashad as much as I agree with you is promoting one another? Do I admire you when I agree with you that Jesus will come back -- or that he did not die? GIMME A BREAK! You also said; [If Ahmed does not admire the KADAAB, why he didn't mention all these times that he was really copying things from the web-site of Rashad Khalifa's followers established and selling Rashad Khalifa's teachings---until Bashir exposed him?] First of all, Bashir did not expose anything -- the guy is merely losing it. One day being hyper...the other day sugar. I do not copy anything...but I learn -- I learn from ALL sects, was that news to you? LET me ref-resh YOUR mind -- I DO learn from all sects(YES, all!) You may consider non-sunnis as non-muslims, but hey, who CARES? X-tians consdier us infidels who need to be re-born in order to be in *God’s Kingdom* -- similar, Jews think Gentiles are just filthy people who Jews need to rule. So, certainly, nobody cares what ridiculeous any other people think of anyone, period. It was Ansaari who said *Ahmad learns from the submitters*(or something like it) -- so, surely, Bashir was a little late with his tabloid piece. It was ansaari who was giving the urls of where I and the submitters were alike and so on and so forth. It’s wonderful to notice how NONE gives the urls where I and the submitters are not alike. BUT, then again, a corrupted world...is always a corrupted world, correct? Ah, God CURSES the conjectures, Umar -- we only need the Qur`an for that! You said; [Ahmed said that Rashad Khalifa was "one smart man" and lots of people follow him and join his path every day! Well, SATAN was *one smart" creature too, the KADAAB himself, but he still rejected Allah and he out smarts those who *imitate* him and follow his footsteps.] BUT, you see -- God promises in the Qur`an that His religion will be the most dominant religion on Earth. So, if Rashad brought a bad path -- it will show...like those before him. Lets wait - for I too am those who wait! I can tell you one thing though -- UNLESS Muslims come together and get their religion back on the track, we’re FAR from that religion that God talks about! Umar, Brother, you’re wasting my time when day-in and day-out we talk...without any progress. You do NOT want to believe the Qur`an -- you need another source beside it...to be above it. I don’t. WHEN and if you’re ready to say that the Qur`an is your #1 source -- and that you want to live by it’s #1ness -- we can talk all we want. However, before that...you’re only wasting my time and energy. And trust me -- I have much important things to do with my time. YES, yes, yes -- I know you say Qur`an is your #1 source, but is it, really? You believe these things that Qur`an HAS NOTHING to do with; -- John was not given a Book, -- Luqman was a Prophet, -- Aaron was just a *wasir* and Prophet with no Book but only to help Moses, -- The Book was given *primarily AND principally* to Moses, -- It was the *Torah* that was given to Moses, and more. All of those are coming from a source beside the Qur`an -- and a NUMBER 1 source always has the pleasure of being number 1...and no seconds -- and it doesn’t have to agree with another source...but other source MUST agree with it. Do you see what i’m talking about? UNTIL you base those in the Qur`an -- and proof it to me and to others...you cannot call the Qur`an as your number source -- but you can say like some other Muslims that Hadiths are another Qur`an which has the same status as the Qur`an. You asked me to name the book of John. -- I asked you to name the book of Abraham, -- I asked you to tell me ONE verse that says Torah was given to Moses, -- I asked you to tell me ONE verse that says the *Book was only given to Moses*... -- I asked you to tell me ONE verse that says Luqman was a Prophet, -- I asked you to tell me ONE verse that tells us a Messenger(without also being named a Prophet) and was given a book, The whole point of you and me are discussing is what the status of a Prophet or a Messenger is --- and without those points...we cannot get that. REMEMBER, I do not quote anything BEFORE the Qur`an -- but it is ALWAYS something that agrees with the Qur`an. True believers strife for the Truth -- and do not settle for something just because the oldie fathers of yore said so to be the *Truth* --- they accept it from God...and strife for what is the Truth. It was never in me to defend a belief that I have...without proof -- I never settle down with things because someone said to be it true. No, I have seen way too many parables in the Qur`an -- and the whole point of God mentioning them to us was that purpose; TO LEARN FROM! The whole message that God conveys to us is that MAN has so many ungrateful beings to screw things up -- no matter how blessing. People whom God given food from the heavens(manna and quals) ended up worshipping other gods beside God for the simple reason of it being worshipped by a *majority*. People whom God had put in paradise rebelled and followed the wicked lies of Satan. People whom God sent Messengers killed them. It’s sad truth -- but that is MAN! Now, some people who are in the time of the world’s WORST time are claiming to be *different* -- ah, GIMME a break! Like every other Messenger’s Message, when Muhammad died -- not many years later...died parts of his message as well. People corrupted and invented lies and attributed to him and to God. His nation was devide into many sects. His family was killed injustly(EVEN his favorite people; his grand-sons). His so-called followers smitten everyone that he adored -- for what? I always try my best to forgive the unforgivables -- but somethings are beyond my understanding. SORRY...for the little time-flash-back! Peace and Love to all Muslims wherever they’re,
|
| | Unrecorded Date By umar on Sunday, February 6, 2000 - 09:13 am: Ahmed said "You said; [Well, it is not a lie that Ahmed admires the KADAAB, for Ahmed's job is to copy things from the web-site of Rashad Khalifa while promoting the Rashad Khalifa's teachings on to this forums.] Huh? *promote*??? What am I missing? Agreeing with Rashad as much as I agree with you is promoting one another? Do I admire you when I agree with you that Jesus will come back -- or that he did not die? GIMME A BREAK! Well, not only Ahmed *admired* and *promoted* the teachings of Rashad Khalifa, he *concealed* insincerity without acknowledging where he copied what he wrote on here many occasions! So, what did Ahmed do before Bashir *exposed* where Ahmed copied his stuff? Ahmed copied----cheated or plagiarized---things with minor changes---from Rashad Khalifa's homepage---to here. Like the other Somali guy, who is/was in the submitters *cult*, Ahmed concealed and still hides his affiliation with Rashad Khalifa's cult memebership. Like the other Somali guy, Ahmed tries to be non-submitter. One time, Ahmed was told that he was a follower of Rashad Khalifa---then, Ahmed tried to sound like he didn't know about Rashad Khalifa that much and he was learning about Rashad Khalifa from what people write on him on here----yet that time Ahmed was still engaging his cut and paste job from submitters page to here! As I said, this is what a hypocrite does. So, an *imitation* is the best form of flattery(adulation or admiration) and Bashir really *EXPOSED* Ahmed. Ahmed said: "You said: [Ahmed said that Rashad Khalifa was "one smart man" and lots of people follow him and join his path every day! "Well, SATAN was *one smart" creature too, the KADAAB himself, but he still rejected Allah and he out smarts those who *imitate* him and follow his footsteps.] “BUT, you see -- God promises in the Qur`an that His religion will be the most dominant religion on Earth. So, if Rashad brought a bad path -- it will show...like those before him. Lets wait - for I too am those who wait! “ Yes, Allah also promoses and tells *those* who follows the footsteps of SATAN--the father of all KADAABIIN--that they are in a WRONG *path*. Rashad Khalifa led himself in the path of SATAN and like SATAN, Rashad Khalifa *mis-led* view people into his path. Some of Rashad Khalifa's followers believe him to be a messenger from Allah and some of them claim that Rashad Khalifa might have been a messenger from Allah. Like Ahmed, I’m not waiting for a prove from the skies----that Rashad Khalifa to be a messenger from Allah. I follow the path of Muhammad who said he was the last messenger and the last prophet of Allah. Thus, *like those before him*, who CLAIMED to have been from Allah, Rashad Khalifa was a KADAAB. Ahmed said: “Umar, Brother, you’re wasting my time when day-in and day-out we talk...without any progress. You do NOT want to believe the Qur`an -- you need another source beside it...to be above it. I don’t. “ Well, the correct *sources* of salaat and the finality of messenger-hood are derived from the teachings of our final messenger Muhammad and we believe them(the sources). However, like the followers of Rashad Khalifa, Ahmed is saying he does not perform his prayers the way of the Sunnah of our messenger Muhammad and also like the followers of Rashad Khalifa, Ahmed is saying he does not believe the sayings of our messenger Muhammad and the finality of messenger-hood of Muhammad(saw). Ahmed is now yelling and screaming and saying that I’m wasting his time. ! This is the same guy who could not take the heat and fled from another discussion we had on another forums. That discussion was about the correct way of making the salaat and this discussion on here is about the Muhammad being the last messenger. That time, Ahmed screamed and shouted this: “NO MORE debate! It's OVER! If you have a problem with my posts, too bad. Nobody is twisting your arm to read it...OR respond to it. No more, Baby! I only have so much time for one day...and I won't *WASTE* it on a couple of lunatics who have nothing else to do but lie...and distort against people. To debate all of you...would take time(and if it was a fruitful debate)...could be bearable, but to debate with a few of people with so many alliases...with no fruitful debate...is a waste of time.”
|
| | Unrecorded Date By Nur (Nur) on Sunday, February 6, 2000 - 10:43 am: Ahmed You said to me: * LOL! HHAHAHAAHAHA! Truly, I sometimes wonder about you. Did I not tell you before that what does NOT concern you are NOT addressed to you??? I was talking about Ansaari’s little ridiculeous comment -- it had nothing to do with you. You were supposed to listen to it -- and then do whatever you wish to it...not respond to it...like it was for you, silly! :) * Actually Ahmad said this exact words * Jews are people who want to GET AWAY from the *filthness* of the Gentiles -- throughout history, they were persecuted for this reason...for being SO proud of who they're they wanted their own little world. Now, what in the world...would they benefit from hiring Rashad khalifa??? * Were addressed to me, because it falls under where you address NUR, on Wednesday, February 2, 2000 - 03:15 am: Ahmad, You are either lying BIG TIME, Or It was a little delivery mix up! Either way, I will be nice to you, and give you the benefit of the doubt and say that it was a little delivery mix up. But again the absurdity of debating the contents of the message with the messenger does shine through. Regards
|
| | Unrecorded Date By umar on Monday, February 7, 2000 - 04:07 am: Ahmed's idol----Edip Yüksel----wrote an ultimatum letter to his fellow submitters and incidentally the people he included in that letter and endorsed his utimatum to the submitters----is another Somali submitter by the name of Mahmoud Abib----the same Somali submitter who DENIED that he was in the memebership of Rashad Khalifa's cult---the submitters.! I wonder why Ahmed and Mahmoud Abib are NOT willing to come out of the closet and admit that they are in the Rashad Khalifa's cult---while *promoting* Rashad khalifa's teaching on the Somali forums? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- AN ULTIMATUM Are We Going To Repeat The Blunders Of Previous Communities? by Edip Yüksel -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In the April, 1997 issue of Submitters Perspective, an article titled "Pilgrimage: Hajj and Umrah" made me concerned about the direction of this community. The author, in that article repeatedly asked the reader to REMEMBER "the duties of the Messenger of the Covenant," a messenger who repeatedly asked people to remember that accepting anything besides the Quran as a religious source was shirk. Where could a person find the duties of "the Messenger of Covenant?" Sure, the students of the Quran know well that there is no such list of duties in the Quran. The author, in his article written on religious matters, was repeatedly asking his reader to REMEMBER a source besides the Quran. A messenger might have had many duties and he might have listed them somewhere, but it is not the duty of Muslims (Submitters) to memorize or keep remembering the list of a particular messenger's duties. Their duty is to follow God's word alone and reject any other source or authority besides it. It does not matter if the associated source is in written or oral. They are supposed to dedicate the religion to God alone (98:5). If we keep reminding each other of the words and writings of the late messenger, our children and grandchildren would most likely follow our advise and would remind each other of religious authorities besides the Quran, and as the sign of hypocrisy or ignorance, they might also be parroting the motto, "The Quran, the whole Quran, and nothing but the Quran." Distinguishing their messenger's hadith from that of the previous messenger's through pseudo differences does not change the fact that accepting anything besides the Quran as another authority is shirk, Period. There is no difference between orally narrated hadith that we cannot verify and that which is transmitted in print or by video tapes, which presumably we might be able to verify. Sayings or writings of messengers might be treated differently regarding their authenticity, but our rejection of Hadith and Sunnah was not based merely on their unreliability, but primarily on the fact that messengers were not another authority or even teachers of God's religion. Abusing the authority of prophets and messengers, and presenting their words or writings as an other authority besides God's word is one of the most common and repeated blunders of "Submitters" of many generations. Unfortunately, our community has not been different. We have witnessed some so-called Submitters claiming the infallibility of "the Messenger of the Covenant." We have witnessed published articles claiming that "Kitab" (The Book) mentioned in the Quran refers to BOTH the Quran and Rashad's translation. We have seen people claiming that the video and audio tapes of "the Messenger of the Covenant" are necessary sources besides the Quran, in addition to his three versions of translation, footnotes, subtitles, appendices and articles, thereby making him a "prophet" with new revelations. We have seen "Submitters" promoting ridiculous interpretations to justify clear errors and contradictions in Rashad's translation. We have heard outrageous misinterpretations of the claim "authorized translation" as if it meant that every word and letter of Rashad's translation were divine, including the revised and re-revised versions. Attributing human errors and contradictions to our Lord, the Omniscient, is not something to take lightly (6:21; 6:93; 6:144; 7:37; 10:17; 11:18; 29:68). We have seen people trying to freeze God's universal message with snap-shot understanding of a human messenger. We have seen people disoriented because of their insistence on following the Sunnah of "the Messenger of the Covenant" instead of indisputable facts. Despite all this mass reversion to shirk (associating partners to God), sure with a different idol and a different excuse, we have yet to see a single article in the Submitters Perspective criticizing this popular trend in this small community. Muhammedans who idolized Muhammad after his departure did exactly the same. While they repeatedly reminded each other of the duties and the words of "the Final Prophet" they focused their criticism on Christians and Jews. In fact, they were repeating the same great blunder with a few minor changes. They ignored the warnings of monotheists who soon became a minority and they oppressed or suppressed their voice. Unfortunately, our community has not taken heed from this history and it is failing the divine test designed for every generation (29:2). While we criticize Muslim's addiction with mentioning Muhammad besides God in their religious articles and books, we also feel a compelling urge to insert Rashad's title "the Messenger of the Covenant" in our speeches and writings. "Is God not sufficient for His servant?. .." (39:36) Well, should we remind those who follow the appendices, footnotes, subtitles, video and audio tapes of Rashad, one of the Sunnah of their messenger, like we remind Muhammedans of their own Hadith and Sunnah to expose their contradiction? Why not? Do you REMEMBER the only verse that was hanging on Rashad's office door for many years until his assassination? Wasn't it 39:36? Also remember that 39:36 was the only verse that is underlined in his translation. And should I remind them of another hadith? Remember Appendix 19 of the Messenger of Covenant; what does it say about you? Do you remember Rashad's book "Quran, Hadiths and Islam?" Have you applied it to yourself? Besides creating modern versions of Hadith and Sunnah, some are trying their best to distort, pervert and dilute the great mathematical miracle of the Quran. As we know that some members of this community abused the mathematical code of the Quran with the unforgettable May 19, 1990 doomsday prophecy and they keep abusing it with their mathematical illiteracy. Some of them did not take heed from their blunder. Now they employ the same childish numerical manipulations to find more mathematical evidence for the messengership of a dead person. One of those doomsday prophets even claimed a divine rank through his childish calculations. Incredibly, he finds followers and supporters within this community. We have become extremely tolerant to the mushriks (those who set partners to God) among us.Probably, because of being trapped in cult-syndrome: we share the same unifying symbol, Rashad Khalifa, or "the Messenger of Covenant," equivalent to Muhammedans' repeated expression "Muhammad Sallallahu Aleyhi Wasallam." This cult or sectarian syndrome is addressed by an interesting Quranic verse: "Are your disbelievers better than those disbelievers? Have you been absolved by the Scripture?" (54:43). After Rashad's death, the fallible human messenger suddenly became an infallible messenger and all his work with all re-visions, contradictions and errors magically became another divine revelation. The devils who concocted or hoped such a mutation, in order to replace Rashad's translation with the original Quran, expunged the original from the translation. To imply an exclusive divine revelation, they also removed the name of those whom Rashad acknowledged for their assistance and contribution to the translation. In brief, members of this community are replacing the Hadith and Sunnah of Muhammad with Rashad's Appendices, footnotes, subtitles, audio and video tapes. Some of those who were addressing their messenger with his first name (Rashad) during his lifetime, soon after his departure, they developed a taboo against mentioning his first name. Muhammedans and those who repeat their blunder cannot commemorate their idols' names without words of praise or rank. Are we going to follow the footsteps of previous generations? What a miserable convergence! What a regression!: "Surely, those who slide back, after the guidance has been manifested to them, the devil has enticed them, and has misled them." (47:25) We cannot standby the repetition of the worst part of the history. If we cannot burn the new calf and throw it into the sea like Moses did, we might be required to repeat Saleh's words (7:79) to our people soon. This Ultimatom is endorsed by the following people: Apameh Bashar Mahmoud Abib Shawki Hamdan Milan Sulc Saeed Talari Sadruddin Karimboy Ali Fazeli Cathryn Kolton Sanobar Tafazoli Maryam Jenna Barbara Jeen Yasser Elkadi Hamid Baghdishi Fransisco Lay Daniel Lay Aisha Musa JOHN SPOONER Hossein Kowsary Ramtin Ghazi Haroon Khan PS: 2. If you would like to put your name on the list above please let us know. 1. The author has decided to prepare "19 Questions For Khalifites," as a next project, God willing. http://www.moslem.org/ultimatom.htm
|
| | Unrecorded Date Like Ahmed, Mahmoud Abib DENIED that he was a submitter while *promoting* Rashad Khalifa's teaching onto the Somali forums, but like Ahmed, Mahmoud Abib was *EXPOSED* by another Bashir.! Ironically enough, Mahmoud Abib joined another forums where he still engages his *promoting* of Rashad Khalifa's teachings to this day! Once someone is in a cult memebership, it is hard to give up! --------------------------------------------- http://www.listbot.com/cgi-bin/subscriber?Act=view_message&list_id=quranresearch&msg_num=2957&start_num=2964 Date: Jan 17 2000 10:00:47 EST From: Mahmoud Abib <quranalone@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Rashad Khalifa Salaam Tyler, Those ego-driven idiots who wrote this article think they follow the Quran alone. They also think what they wrote had Quranic basis. It was plain rubbish. If they follow the Quran alone, they will know: 1) Prophet Muhammad WAS NOT the last messenger, but was the last Prophet. 2) God will send messengers to humanity until the end when He so wills. 3) Mathematical Miracle of the Quran, was discovered in 1974, by Dr. Rashad Khalifa. So, this man was either an authorized messenger and was given this knowledge BY GOD, or he sneaked behind God and got this information via satan and was here to deceive us. 3) Quran IS NOT the ink and paper. If it was, how can we explain the text differences between the Hafs and the Warsh versions? 4) Yes, God protected the Quran, and, it is in the hearts of the believers. 5) The two ayats 9:128 & 129, are NOT part of the Quran which was revealed to prophet Muhammad. They were injected in the Quran by his idolators in a gesture of "honoring" him. But today, we indeed know, no falsehood will inter the Quran, and it consist of 114 chapters, 6234 numbered ayats and 112 un-numbered ayats. 6) Anyone, who believes in God Alone, live a righteous life and believe the Hereafter, is a MUSLIM. So yes, we can have a Muslim-jew, a Muslim-Christian or Muslim-Budhist. These Quranic facts are what the likes of Mujahilul Quranis and the so called Signs Magazine reject. Finally, you are very young, and are only few years older than my own son. So I will tell you what I tell him when he becomes talkative: Shut up and do more listening than talking! God has given you TWO ears and ONE mouth for a reason :) Peace, Mahmoud.
|
| | Unrecorded Date Here is another submitter defending Rashad Khalifa while using, like Ahmed used, what Edip Yuksel wrote! -------------------------------------------- Qur'anic Research Center Home Page: Archive: Message #2939 Date: Jan 16 2000 19:16:20 EST From: "Nasif" <nasif@cheerful.com> Subject: Re: Rashad Khalifa Edip Yuksel wrote a reply to this Sign Magazine article. You can read it here: http://www.moslem.org/yuksel/sign.txt Peace, Nasif ----- Original Message ----- From: Tyler Jordan To: Qur'anic Research Center Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2000 2:54 PM Subject: Rashad Khalifa Qur'anic Research Center - http://www.quran.org Peace everyone This is an article I received from a sunni. Im not saying I agree with it, AT ALL. There may be some parts I agree with, but some I dont. You all know more about it then me so read on. It is long and Im sorry. I also apologize to those who get it more then once! :) >In the Name of Allah, most Compassionate, most Merciful > >Rashad Khalifa-Purifier or Pretender? > >By Signs Magazine, Glasgow U.K >Dr Rashad Khalifa's claim to be A Divine Messenger of The Covenant has >caused great controversy and concern. This appraisal of his work and two >translations of the Quran has a few revelations of its own. > >Looking at the first English translation of the Quran by Dr Rashad Khalifa >it is easy to be persuaded by its simple, clear presentation and ease of >use. The rendering is much the same as others available, the only >difference, as you might expect, is the choice of words. > >Although the intricate numerical analysis based on the number 19 is >included, the language is quite modern making the reading effortless. The >theme throughout is the Oneness of God and worship to Him alone. > >The revised edition is, however, something different. Apart from the >obvious differences such as layout, a much longer introduction and more >appendices, the focus of the contents has changed,-. > >For those who are familiar with his earlier edition this immediately >becomes >apparent but others who are not so well acquainted may mistake it for a >translation from the original Arabic Quran instead of the misrepresentation >it really is. > >Rashad Khalifa's impaired claims to messengership undermine all the good >that he has done. The contents of this particular translation go against >the views he expressed in his previous commentary and against the Quran. > >The foundation of his claim is based on the complex geomatrical values of >the >Arabic letters and verses. Mathematics is an exact science and, while it >is >acceptable that the alphabet has numerical significance, any findings which >form the basis of an extraordinary claim must be verified by a recognized >authority before they can be taken as a statement of fact. > >The average reader may be impressed by a string of figures which he cannot >possibly check, but unless Rashad's research can be corroborated by >independent investigation, it does not have the integrity which is required >to substantiate his claim. > >By establishing a formula within the Quran, Rashad's discovery of the >number >nineteen has had decisive impact. Many people have been so overwhelmed by >this discovery that they have absorbed, without question, any other >information 'supported' by this numerical miracle. > >In fact, matters which common sense would normally reject have been >accepted >by the ingenuous and ingenious alike. This opportunity has not been missed >and is used as a license to prop up the otherwise fragile claim as a >messenger of God. > >However, the discrepancies found in his two translations published some >years apart are evidence that his designation is self instated and not from >the Almighty. > >Rashad makes a notable distinction between prophethood and his >messengership. A messenger, he maintains, does not bring anything new and >he, as a messenger of the covenant, confirms and purifies the existing >scripture. And how does he refine the Quran? From Sura 9 he has removed >the >last two verses. In appendix 24 and under the title 'Tampering With the >Word of God' he explains: "Nineteen years after the Prophet's death, some >scribes injected two false verses at the end of sura 9..." and further on >says: " One of the scribes suggested adding a couple of verses to honour >the >Prophet". > >Surely, he cannot be referring to the same Quran and the same scribes >portrayed by God in Sura 80 verse 15-16 as ' ... an honourable scripture. >Exalted and pure. Written by the hands of scribes. Who are honourable and >righteous.'? > >Doees this mean that the Quran we have possessed for centuries was not the >authentic one? Apparently not. What seems to have happened, according to >Rashad, is that for the first 19 years the Quran was perfect, then two >additions took place. These appendages remained in the Quran for 1400 >years >until he, Rashad the "messenger", came to cleanse the Quran of impurities! > >In the first nineteen years undoubtedly many thousands of people all over >the Islamic region must have memorized the Quran. Was it possible to >inform >each and everyone that certain additions had been made? Did anyone not >question where these verses came from after 19 years? What has God to say >about this? Offensive accusations that any alterations ever took place are >shattered by the Quran's explicit verses: > >'We are in charge of putting it together in to Quran' Sura 75.17. > >'Surely, we sent down this message, and surely, we will preserve it.' Sura >15.9. > >'No falsehood can ever enter it, in the past or in the future; for it is a >revelation from God, most wise, praiseworthy.' Sura 41.42. > >God sent down His message, assembled it and preserved it. To believe any >verses were added is a perverted idea belonging only to those who dream to >assert their own authority above God. > >It is important to note that both nullified verse are included in Rashad's >first translation without any reservation being expressed. As Rashad's >subsequent claim to messengership is basd on the numerical value of >letters, >words or verses in the Quran, the removal of the two verses, according to >the translator's calculations, brings the composition into perfect harmony. > >Exactly who is tampering with the Quran can be seen by comparing Rashad's >two translations. One which was published in 1981 and the other in 1992. >Not only have many Sura titles changed in the new version, some verses have >been mutilated and others interpolated with Rashad's own name. > >For example in his earlier translation Verse 56 in sura 25 states: 'We did >not sent you (O Muhammed) except as a mere bearer of good news, as well as >a >warner.' but in the new version it reads: 'We have sent you (Rashad) as a >deliverer of good news, as well as a warner.' > >Another conspicuous discrepancy worthy of note is that in the early >translation in appendix 1 under the title of 'simple facts', the word 'God' >is noted as having a count of 2,698 (19 x 142). In the later translation >the count is also given as 2,698. But the two verses of Sura 9, one with >the word 'God' have been eliminated. How can the total remain the same? > >In two other books by Rashad, Quran: Visual Presentation of the miracle and >The Computer Speaks: God's message to the World, Rashad has counted the >word >'God' only once in Sura 9:15 when it appears twice. In the later >translation it has been shown in bold letters and correctly counted as two >spearate words. It can be assumed that other calculations may also be >wrong, but it is not within the scope of Signature Publications to carry >out >the necessary research. However, this does raise some pertinent questions >and puts Rashad's research under suspicion. > >Rashad also had a vision in which he alleges to have experienced heavenly >travel. In some place in the universe he was introduced to all the >prophets >and recognized a strong resemblance that the prophet Abraham had to his own >father, uncles and, to himself. > >This fantasy is in complete contrast considering the disparaging remarks he >made abut the people who forged such nonsense about the prophet Muhammad. >In >his early translation, Rashad wrote in footnotes to sura 17.1 'Two hundred >years after Muhammad, some storytellers with limited knowledge, and a lot >of >imagination, fabricated a story alleging a night journey...' Rashad is >supposed to have made his celestial flight in 1971. His early translation >was in print in 1981 in which there is no mention of his divine status or >the extra verses. If his reverent position was bestowed to purify the >Quran >why did he publish a translation which would undergo major surgery in the >near future? Surely his utmost priority would have been to present his >mathematical prof with the corrected copy. > >It is his 'final testament' published in 1992 which is defective and it is >in this corrupt version that his name appears within the text of his >unscrupulously paraphrased translation of the Quran. Reading the >introduction and commentary of this sacrilegious text one wonders what is >the source of his information. The inconsistencies found do not correspond >with the mission of a messenger who has come to purge Islam of all >contamination. > >One of the eccentric beliefs peddled is that anyone who dies before the age >of 40 goes to heaven. This crucial period, if this notion is to be >accepted, is the post which marks the human beings 'coming of age'. > >A person under forty is not considered responsible for his actions and >anyone who does not believe this bizarre idea denies God's mercy! > >What about then those who idolize others besides God? Would all their sins >also be absolved? Or would they be subject to certain qualifications? Sura >4.48 states: 'God never forgives the idolization of anything besides him, >and He forgives all lesser offences for whomever He will'. > >The Quran says nothing about all sins being forgiven for those under forty, >this is only wishful thinking. In reality there is no evidence for hawking >this myth to give people a false sense of security. > >Another religious philosophy the revised version proclaims is that the job >of the messenger of the covenant is to lead the righteous believers - Jews, >Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, Sikhs, Hindus, and others out of darkness >and into light. Appendix 2 announces '...one may be a Muslim Jew, a Muslim >Christian, a Muslim Hindu, a Muslim Buddhist, or a Muslim Muslim.' > >The theory to include all religions based on beliefs common to all faiths >is >not a new one. This peculiar idea has been tried, without success, by >emperor Akbar of India, M.K. Ghandi, Brahmu Samaj and other novel >innovations pronouncing universal faiths. The message of the Quran is >belief in One God and peace through submission to Him alone. In sura 49 >verse 13 God says '...the best among you are the most righteous...' The >righteous follow His teachings which are in the Quran. One of the Quranic >fundamentals is the equality between Man and Man. > >How can Islam encompass the integral Hindu beliefs based on the racist cast >system, even if they both have some other things in common? Both systems >of >life are incompatible. If a Hindu rejects his inherent faith and accepts >the >Quran as God's word then he no longer remains a Hindu and becomees a >Muslim. >So there is no question of him becoming a Muslim Hindu which would be a >compromise between the two faiths. > >To try and assimilate other faiths into Islam in order to gain converts is >a >disreputable idea and the Quran warns: 'Anyone who seeks other than Islam >(submission) as a religion, it will not be accepted from him and in the >hereafter he will be a loser'. Sura 3.85 'As for the compromisers, they >will be fuel for hell.' Sura 72.15 > >'Submitters Perspective' (sometimes titled Muslim Perspective) is a monthly >publication of the Masjid Tucson (U.S.A.) of which Rashad Khalifa was the >imam before his death in 1990. In the April issue number 64, his murder is >likened to the termination of the prophet Jesus's life. It is said >Rashad's >soul was raised before his attackers, described as disbelievers, struck. >How this comparison is known to be true is not stated - unnless someone >else >from the Masjid Tucson has also started receiving inspiration from God. > >In another issue, writer Parvaneh Parnian ends an article on Salat by >saying >'...Thus, in addition to the information sent down by God during the last >few months, all aspects of Salat are confirmed.' > >The Quran says: 'Who is more evil than one who invents lies then attributes >them to God, or claim to have received divine revelation when nothing has >been revealed...' Sura 6.93 > >In the February 1989 issue Rashad is quoted as saying "I was most >assertively told, through Gabriel, that Sura 36, and more specifically >verse >36.3 (Surely, you are one of the messengers), refers to me and I was >provided with the following mathematical proof..." But in his early >translation he interprets this verse as: `Y.S. And this Quran that is full >of wisdom; (prove that) you (Muhammad) are one of the messengers. >Advocating >the right path.' Sura 36 1-4. > >In his commentary to these verses he states: 'The miraculous numerical >code >associated with the Quranic initials such as Y.S. here, proves that >Muhammad >was indeed a messenger of God.' Since Gabriel transmitted the Quran to >Muhammad the obvious implication here is that Gabriel made a mistake at >some >point. If this is not the case than Rashad has prevaricated his story. > >The June 1990 issue announces that the Messenger of the Covenant has >accomplished his mission. In appendix 2 of the new translation one of his >principal duties was to establish a criminal justice system. Where and >when, if at all, Rashad established such a system is not mentioned. If he >has not founded such a system then his mission has not yet been completed. > >The dominant factor enunciated in Rashad's first translation was the >Oneness >of God and worship to Him alone. His sentiments for the idol worshipers >were clearly evident. Especially those who mention a prophet's name >besides >God are particularly despised. > >In the beginning of sura Al-Baqarah he clearly defined the three categories >of people (The Believers, The Disbelievers, The Hypocrites), and in 2.285 >the unconditional requisite to make no distinction between messengers is >articulated. To extol one messenger above another is tantamount to >idolatry. > >Yet in the Submitters Perspective of April 1993 followers of Rashad's >principles are defined as 'community of Rashad'. In effect the disciples >of >Rashad are differentiating themselves not as Muslims, The Believers, but as >a separate new sect belonging to the community of Rashad. How long will it >be before they present themselves as 'Rashadites'? > >God says in the Quran: Those who divide their religion into sects do not >belong with you (O Muhammad). Their judgement rests with God, and He will >inform them of everything they did.' Sura 6.159. 'The religion you preach >is one religion and I am your Lord, so observe Me. But the people divided >themselves into sects; each happy with what they have. Thus leave them in >their blunder for a while. Sura 23. 52-54. > >In his comments to Sura 6.159 of his early translation Rashad wrote: 'The >only reason behind the existence of several Islamic sects today is that the >Muslims have abandoned the Quran in favour of the human opinions of their >leaders who are in fact their idols.' > >This is exactly what has happened. The community of Rashad has a new >version of the Quran sandwiched between an introduction and commentaries >which are in fact opinions of their leaders. Conjecture, the Quran tells >us >in Sura 10.36, is no substitute for the truth. > >America is a breeding ground for religious groups of different shades. Each >tinged with the personality of its founder. The hues may be new but it's >the same old colour by which they are easily recognized. The original >translation of the Quran by Dr Rashad Khalifa may have been well intended. >But his present community has similarities which can be compared with other >cults. > >To justify why people deny Rashad's messengership, the community of Rashad >say these people are hypocrites who are expected 'to utter we do not need a >messenger.' This is precisely how the Mormons defend their apocrypha (see 2 >Nephi 29 Book of Mormon). The Jehovah's Witness state that there is no >hell, as death is the wages of sin. The community of Rashad preach that >you >are guaranteed heaven if you die before you reach the age of forty, even if >you are evil or an atheist. They also readily incorporate all other >religions so it would be easy for a Buddhist to become a 'Muslim Buddhist' >(!). This may seem a paradox to most people but not to the community of >Rashad. > >God says in the Quran '...you do not need to exalt your selves; He is fully >aware of the righteous' (Sura 53.32. At the end of appendix 24 of Rashad's >new version, the contributors acknowledge themselves with unanimous vote of >thanks for a 'job well done'. The Quran says: 'What about the one who >idolizes his own ego? Can you do anything for him?' Sura 25:43 > >Dr Rashad Khalifa's discovery of the number 19 pattern in the Quran was a >momentous step for Muslims all over the world. However, his changing views >regarding the essence of faith, recorded in his two renditions of the >Quran, >are not appropriate for a man commissioned by God. To declare himself as a >divine messenger was an unfortunate decision. It has overshadowed the >seriousness of his previous achievement. > >(Unless otherwise stated all quotations of the Quran are from Rashad >Khalifa's >original translation of the Quran published in 1981.) >
|
| | Unrecorded Date Asalama Alaykum Muslims! Annonymous, HAHAHA! Thanks for the help! :) Others, I will write more at the end of the week, insha Allah! Peace and love to all Muslims, -Ahmad!
|
| | Unrecorded Date to all muslims, asalamu alaykum, if you want to get an idea where 'AHMED'kadaab and his friends get the idea of ( a prophet being different than nabi) go to the site of the ahmadiya "no relation" and you wil see that it is 'an old idea with new coat'. striking similarities don't you think!!!!! http:// WWW.AHMADIYA.COM/TRUE-ISLAM/PROPHETHOOD.HTML
|