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| | Unrecorded Date Hey everyone I got some new insights in religion. Religion is a form of control. But not the controll you think. It create's a basis around a family and makes them stronger imposing values on them. These values will help them live and keep controll in life. It's good to finally see this. But what I see with religious family's I also see with higher educated people, they create a values for them selves. But this is not for everyone befitted, young children and adults who are educated don't know how to controll them selves. Educated people will form these values or barriers in hardship. But not everyone can do this. Religion puts these values their so that people when they are young, don't have to learn these things on there selves. These young people must also learn to respect this religion otherwise this won't work. (That's why Huriwaa was so angry.) Further more there are more books then the three books of the Islam, Judism and Christianity. These books have all good facts of life and if you read them you will know a lot more of just living and 'understanding nature'.(you don't have to convert or anything) If you want to know more just go to your local library and get them, there all there. Look under 'religion.' And this about the trinity of god. I find it inaccurate. God is everything and nothin' you can't perseive it or describe it. You can't name it, or see it. You can't smell it, so how can you know anything about god. God is etarnal you can't put a name on that. P.S. I thought you had respect for eachother. So why ARE YOU CALLING EACHOTHER NAMES. Mad MAC have patience with Huriwaa. When he finally stops bablin' about respect then he will make some sence. HURIWAA COME OF IT. This is a discussion about religion not about RESPECT. Everyone has an opinion, so deal with it. to bashir abdi: Let's get this straight. If something is bad for you it's Haram. If something is good for you it's Halal. But you are now watching in your monitor. and I tell you that is bad cuzz it's causes braintumors and other .......! So you will stop watching in your monitor or just go on?!? Post something back. If any one wants to say something post it. You only have one day cuzz then I'm going back to my studies.
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| | Unrecorded Date ExTrEmE, I laugh and smile at the silliness of you and MAD MAC's assertions and your comments regarding to religioin. Assertions made by MAD MAC is even more laughable than yours. MAD MAC claims that he does not believe in hell and heaven, but then again, to him hell is in this world. He believes that when people die they will come back and live again in this world. Among the fallacious claims made by MAD MAC is that THE HOLY QURAN is INCORRECT and has some inconsistencies. But, for this absurd claim of his fails to present any evidence. He permits his imagination to play havoc with him, hence he bases his claim on his disbelief and what he thinks of hell and heaven. Assuming that there is no hell and heaven and assuming that there is no judgement(accountability)-----how on earth then can such a man like Hitler and his victims get the same justice and if they get Justice, who is Judging Hitler? Well, according to MAD MAC's belief and his babbling' about what might happen to a man like Hitler, MAD MAC says that Hitler may get another chance to do better and come back to the world, but for now he is in a bad situation. Again, the question to MAD MAC is if Hilter is going ot be in a bad situation for his deeds, who punishing him and put him in the situation he is in now? I thought that---according to MAD MAD, Allah can not be both Merciful and Judge.!! ExTrEmE, you and MAD MAC, have nothing but ludicrous, puerile and absurd comments regarding religion. Some times it is laughable reading both of your comments about religion and what you believe, but then do you expect me to respect both of you?
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| | Unrecorded Date Extreme. I am at work and on break my freind. You have a very funny comments out there. It is interesting though and I would like to respond to it. The proplem: There is an internal server error with somalinet that tells me it can configure or post the message. I am not even sure this will get through. If it does, I will respond to you tommorrow Allah willing. And it is not a big deal you don't have more days to stick around. You know, if it is your own benefit and would like to go deep in this subject, you will find plenty of time. Untill then, Let me make sure The server proplem is fixed. Adios. Huriwaa. Thanks bro I will ever be thankflu for your help.
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| | Unrecorded Date Originally this was for MAd MAC ONLY but I hope it will also give some thinking to our guest Extreme. Mad The other place for bashir and Huriwaa isn't working for some reason but this one does hopefully. And if it does I wrote this message for you this morning read it. Mad MAC. You said: "Saahib, What I said was that we don't understand what the rules are. Even when you read the Qur'an it is clear that when God judges it's not simply a case of if A then B." True in the last part. It is not from A to B but an explanation to every individual and what he/she has done for him/herself. You see, that is what you would expect in a normal court procedure. And Allah's court is the best in justice in which no one will be denied his full rights. First you gotta understand, to Allah it is easy to bring Mad Mac back after his death for Allah says: "30.11 It is Allah Who begins the creation; then repeats it; then shall you be brought back to Him." And when you come back to him vuala! it is your judgemenet day and you will see all that you did in deeds both good and bad in detail but you will be a witness unto yourself my freind: "On that day Man will be informed of what he sent forward(of his evil or good deeds), and what he left behind" "Nay! Man will be a witness against himself." "Though he may put forth his excuses" chapter 17:14-15. There you go Mr. Mad, you will be told all you did without any injustice to you but you will also be given a book in which you can find all that you did recorded in detail. And if you think or can't immagine resurrection is not true read about this people and what they said. Allah talks about them: "And they used to say: "When we die and become dust and bones, shall we then indeed be resurrected?". "And also our forfathers?". "Say (Yes), Verily, those of old, and those of later times". chapter 56:46-49. No doubt, THE GOD who started the creation is able to bring them back even after they dissappear. The same way he started everything, is he able to bring them back anytime he wills and that is set for a day called judgement day in which people are told in their totality what they have done. And as you have read above they are witnesses unto themselves and know better than anybody else what they have done. Mad, I have something real for you, consider the coming verses very good. "And the stupor of death will come in truth: "This is what you have been avoiding" "And the trumpet will be blown- that will be tha day whereof warning(had been given)" "And every person will come forth along with an (angel) to drive (him) and an (angel) to bear witness." "(It will be said to the sinners): "Indeed you were heedless of this, Now we have removed your covering, and sharp is your sight this day!" "And his companion (the angel) will say: "Here is (this record) ready with me!" "(And it will be said): "Both of you throw (Order from Allah to the two angels) into hell, EVERY STUBBORN DISBELIEVER." "Hinderer of GOOD, TRANSGRESSOR, DOUBTER." "Who set up another god with Allah, then cast him in the severe torment" "His companion(in hell, the satan) will say: "Our lord! I didn't push him to transgress, but he was himself in error far astray." "Allah will say: "Dispute not in front of Me, I had already, in advance, SENT YOU THE THREAT" "The sentence that comes from me cannot be changed, and I am not unjust (to the least) to the slaves" Chapter 50:19-29. Mad Mac , this is a good lesson for those who want to care about God and the life after death. Read them and let us know what you learnt from them.
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| | Unrecorded Date To bashir abdi: Do you know what I know about this. Force. If you do not belief you will be trown in a pit and burn for ever. So if it comes to this, your religion is based on force. If you don't do this, you will die. And isn't it said that all your bad and good things are acknowledged, so that the one that has did the most good things will go to heaven. This all will be trown aside because your not a true believer.(I think you better bring the message better out to all the people in the world, because hell will be a bit overcrowded.) This also proves that god isn't fair. If you were suppose to life this way, it would be in your nature. But if your nature says that you should do something that is not permitted in the Koran you would be punished. Okay.( I know that your nature is influanced by your upbringing but some facts come from deep down there.(your soul)) And THis to both of you: Have you actually readed my points, because if you don't see that this is true. Then it will be a good thing to stick your head outside for a wile to see what's out there. These points are not against the Islam, so. What's the harm. To Huriwaa: Your not doing a good job at all. You were suppose to bring the message to the community, and All I'm seeing that you are a stubborn fool. I know Moslims who are open. And if I look at you and read what you have to say.....? p.s. Huriwaa, You were again indirectly saying something about RESPECT.(shut up) You are suppose to say something that will confince us otherwise. So this will be a bad thing. And you will be your witness to your self. Even if you are a believer. You better start doing a good job. It's in your own sake. So you say to your self.
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| | Unrecorded Date To the Extreme Atheist: Exteme said: " Religion is a form of control. But not the controll you think." Actually, religion is guidance and not control. There is difference. It is the guide book for the Human beings sent with them by THE GOD who ENGINEERED them so they know their proplems and survival. Just the same way as a device has a booklet to tell all about it, Humans had/have a book that talks about the purpose of their being here in the first place. Who made them, and why. What is beyond tommorrow and what the future holds for them. It is not about behaviour as you atheists simply put it, but a lot more knowledge and deep reflections on human beings. In short, humans know less and need help. If we agreed that the human capacity of awareness is very very limited and can't see what is beyond tommorrow for sure, then there must be some guide for them to be a life saver . In fact if you look at human beings they are obsessed with being alive and have to worry about it. Extreme, We are very weak entities who can't survive without a guide from A powerful being, an eternal, almighty God who sustains Us and everything else. Let me ask you this; What is time? I mean, can you really explain time in a sentence?. If you are a game, I would like you to think about that for a moment. I am sure scientifically it is proven that time doesn't really exist. Here is a quote: "The perception we call time is, in fact, a method by which one moment is compared to another. We can explain this with an example. For instance, when a person taps an object, he hears a particular sound. When he taps the same object five minutes later, he hears another sound. The person perceives that there is an interval between the first sound and the second and he calls this interval "time". Yet at the time he hears the second sound, the first sound he heard is no more than an imagination in his mind. It is merely a bit of information in his memory. The person formulates the perception of "time" by comparing the moment in which he lives with what he has in his memory. If this comparison is not made, neither there can be perception of time." By Harun Yahya, The relativity of time. Did you get what it means?. It means, your usage and differentiation of events in your life must have an outer factors by which you measure them. If those factors are removed from the universe, You are nothing but unintelligible animal who lives according to the rules of rudementary life. Take for example, Remove the sun and the moon and the shining stars, Can you immagine what is left?. A dark hell that has no time and direction. a continous flow of life without meaning. We would be doomed without those facilities of live. The sun and the moon. You see, Allah praised himself for the creation of day and night and told us what they stand for. "3.27 "HE causes the night to gain on the day, and HE causes the day to gain on the night; HE bringes the Living out of the Dead, and HE bringes the Dead out of the Living; and HE gives sustenance to whom HE pleases, without measure." "6.96 He it is that cleaveS the day-break (from the dark): He makes the night for rest and tranquillity, and the sun and moon for the reckoning (of time): Such is the judgment and ordering of (Him), the Exalted in Power, the Omniscient." "16.12 He has made subject to you the Night and the Day; the sun and the moon; and the stars are in subjection by His Command: verily in this are Signs for men who are wise." ARE YOU WISE ENOUGH EXTREME ?. The verses that talk about time and its wonders are many and those kinds of things are what we learn from the QURAN and a lot more. Think over these. "It is very evident that there exists a supreme Creator, Who has created the entire material universe, that is, the sum of perceptions, and Who continues His creation ceaselessly. Since this Creator displays such a magnificent creation, he surely has eternal power and might. This Creator introduces Himself to us. He has created a book within the universe of sensations He has created and through this book has described us Himself, the universe and the reason of our existence. This Creator is Allah and the name of His Book is the Qur’an. The facts that the heavens and the earth, that is, the universe is not stable, that their presence is only made possible by Allah’s creation and that they will disappear when He ends this creation, are all explained in a verse as follows: "It is Allah Who sustains the heavens and the earth, lest they cease (to function): and if they should fail, there is none - not one - can sustain them thereafter: Verily He is Most Forbearing, Oft-Forgiving. (Surah Fatir, 41) " By Harun Yahya, The mystery of Matter, The Real Absolute Being.
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| | Unrecorded Date Extreme. you are too fast my friend. The above message was saved and I wanted you to read it then answer. Slow down little bit. I will answer your points if I can one by one. I am not ignoring anything okey?. Let us not make this personal okey?. If brother huriwaa wants his feelings to be respected it is his right to ask for it. Don't overblow about it too much. All he is saying is "Stop fabricating and bring evidence" and that is the rule of integrity. I can't claim something is wrong when I know nothing about it. Let us focus on the subject alright. Now, I have to sleep for at least six hours and then wake up for friday prayers. I will answer to the rest if I can in the afternoon. Relax mister. INSHALLAAH. I answered some of your points so read carefully. I will answer the rest so take it easy.
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| | Unrecorded Date ExTrEmE, Do not tell me to stop being impertinence with you when you can’t stop being impertinence with me. I suggest to you that you take your own advice that you gave your friend MAD MAC (patience with Huriwaa). If you do not take your own advice, you will keep hurting your feeling. How many times did I tell you (directly and indirectly) that RESPECT is two way street. You are telling me that I'm suppose to bring the message to the community, but I can not help you if you are too obtuse and pig-headed to understand the messages I forwarded to you and your friend MAD MAC.
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| | Unrecorded Date to bashir abdi: Your right in the case that religion is guidance. But it's also a way of controll. Think about it. If the Koran was there but it did not mention Hell or Heaven. Nobody would follow it. The tread of Hell and the reward of heaven gives bearing to the people to follow the Koran. In so The Islam. And you are also saying about that the Koran is saying something about the future (what then?) I believe that when you live you must NOT know anything about the future, because if you did. It wouldn't be worth the living. You would already know anything. No surprise or anything. People would stop living at this fact. And for your information about A to B. Let me tell you this. If I were a serial Killer( I AM NOT), and I would think that is was in my good interest to kill all of the people in my...say my school. It would be good for my self. So most respected ALLAH would say then that it wasn't a bad thing. I mine perception ALLAH judges you by the reactions of others and what you do. So what I'm saying is this. Everything has a reaction. If you act like a dweeb it will afend people, if you act like a cool person it will afend people. So it must be by yourself. But you decide what you are. And your environment will form this, so the outside people also judges. There for I agree that it's a Hard Job for ALLAH to judge somebody. But is it His to JUDGE? We are his creation but we were given' life, and minds to choose for our selves. So why would he judge us. If he gave us these instruments. Also time: TIME DOESN'T exist. TIME is the information of the present, forged by the past. With this information you will be ready( if not) to pass forward to the future. It's like what you said, just a moment. But I didn't need the Koran or somebody else to explain this. Also your verse 16.12: think about this. So if he controlls the sky( the moon, the sun) He would then also have planned. eclipses. When the moon passes for the sun, and everything becomes dark.. So you are saying that they have a meaning????? about your last verses. Above them it sez think about these. Okay I did. What I think in leading of these verses is that we are all in the thoughts of The creator: ALLAH. So also the moon, the sky the planet everything. So everything is a thought and he preserves it with all his might. This explains also that he is inactive in the world. So if he would forget about us. Say bye bye to the world.(and your self). But why would he do that? Yeah as I think about it. Why would he create us. And why in his image. Why didn't he just use his imagenation and create some real fun stuff. Also if I invent a new thing say a hovercar. I heard that that invention would be because of god. Why, I invented it. I thought about it. So why would anybody say this. The fact that he is inactive in the world also says that this isn't true. And I also want a answer to this. ARE WE THE ONLY CREATION! p.s. I didn't want to go personall. But they started to call eachother names. A bit petetic aint it. Thats why I started to come on them. (him).
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| | Unrecorded Date Here is a lesson (a message) 101 for MAD MAC and ExTrEmE: ‘Surely, this is a reminder; so whoever wills, let him take a way to his Lord.’ (Qur’ân 76:29) Knowledge of the Divinely revealed laws, the methodology of worship and devotion, etc. are acquired by man from law which is based on Divine revelation and the teachings of the prophets. Since every individual is endowed with the innate knowledge of tawhîd, he is held accountable for his belief in Allâh precisely because of his fitrah. Not every soul, however, will be held accountable for not practicing sharî‘ah because knowledge of sharî‘ah is acquired only by those who received the message of the Divine revelations and the teachings of he prophets. The distinction between the inborn knowledge of tawhîd (which includes the knowledge of right and wrong) and the acquired knowledge of law (which includes what is lawful and unlawful) is significant because of the legal implications of each. The mushrik, one who violates tawhîd, will not be pardoned for his polytheism, irrespective of whether he received the message of Islâm or not. On the other hand, the practice of law is only required from the Muslim while the non-Muslim (who did not receive the message of Islâm) is not expected to fulfill this obligation. An individual may be forgiven for not practising the law if he had not received the message of Islâm, but he will not be forgiven for rejecting tawhîd. The Muslim will thus be held responsible for tawhîd and law. LAA DANBI BACDA KUFUR-----NO SIN AFTER DISBELIEVE---BECAUSE THE ACT OF KUFUR IS MORE THAN ANY SIN. It is related that the Prophet, may Allâh bless him and grant him peace, said that he saw in a vision an old man at the front of a large tree and around him were children and in the vision he was told that the old man was Ibrâhîm and that the children who were around him were the children who, before attaining the age of discretion, had died. At this, some Muslims had asked hum: "And the children of the polytheists too, Messenger of Allâh?" The Prophet, may Allâh bless him and grant him peace, replied: "The children of the polytheists as well." Being with Ibrâhîm meant being in Paradise, and this includes children of polytheistic families. It is clear, from the Qur’ân and from the hadîth, that every child is born with a pure nature, as a Muslim. Islâm recognises that all children, whether born of believing or unbelieving parents, go to Paradise if they die before attaining the age of discretion. Fitrah is the unconfirmed state which exists until the individual consciously acknowledges his belief. Hence, if a child were to die before he attains discretion he would be on of the inmates of Paradise. Islâm is also called dîn al-fitrah, the religion of human nature, because its laws and its teachings are in full harmony with the normal and the natural inclination of the human fitrah to believe in and submit to the Creator. ‘And who is better in obedience (in dîn) than he who resigns himself to Allâh?’ (Qur’ân 4:125) ‘There shall be no compulsion in obedience (dîn).’ (Qur’ân 2:256) Ad-dîn implies religion in the widest sense of the word, embracing both the practical aspects of the acts of worship and ordinary transactions of life, and the teachings of religion; and it is a name for that whereby one serves Allâh. ‘Truly, the religion (dîn) in the sight of Allâh is al-Islâm.’ (Qur’ân 3:19) The synonyms of ad-dîn are ash-sharî‘ah (the law), tawhîd (Oneness of Allâh) and wara‘ (caution). Ad-dîn also comes from the verb dana, meaning ‘he had indebted’. This is significant, according to al-Attas, because man is indebted to Allâh for his existence and sustenance. The believer will realise that his spirit acknowledged Allâh in pre-existence, and that the debt that he must return is his self, and this can be done by service and submission to Allâh. This return implies a return to man’s inherent spiritual nature, to his fitrah. The one who submits to Allâh is called ‘abd (a slave) of Allâh, and his service is called ‘ibâdah (slavehood or conscious submission to the will of Allâh). By worshipping Allâh in such a manner, man in fulfilling the purpose of his creation and existence. ‘I have not created the Jinn and man but that they should serve Me (li ya‘budûnî).’ (Qur’ân 51:56) Such worship or submission does not entail loss of freedom, for, freedom is to act as one’s true nature demands; that is, as one’s fitrah demands. Al-Attas succinctly explains the connection between submission, fitrah and dîn as follows: ‘When we say that such a man is fulfilling the purpose for his creation and existence, it is obvious that that man’s obligation to serve God is felt by him as normal because it comes as a natural inclination on the man’s part to do so. This natural tendency in man to serve and worship God is also referred to as dîn, … here in the religious context it has a more specific signification of the natural state of being called fitrah. In fact dîn also means fitrah. Fitrah is the pattern according to which God has created all things… Submission to it brings harmony, for it means realisation of what is inherent in one’s true nature; opposition to it brings discord, for it means realisation of what is extraneous to one’s true nature.’ A person is distinguished from the rest of the creation because he or she has been endowed with intellect (‘aql) and free-will (irâdah). The intellect enables him to discern right from wrong. He can use these faculties to complement his fitrah and to please Allâh or to be untrue to it and displease Allâh. The choice is his. The prophets and Divine revelation are external sources of guidance to guide the intellect and will of man. The Qur’ân declares that the Prophet, may Allâh bless him and grant him peace, enjoins the right and lawful things (ma‘rûf) and forbids the wrong and unlawful things (munkar). Man is responsible for his actions and accountable to Allâh for every atom of right and wrong that he does. It is in this sense of accountability that guides man to act in accordance with the Divine will. It empowers him to struggle against the wrong-doing of his lower self (nafs) as well as the negative influences of the social circumstances. The central hadîth makes plain that it is the social circumstances after the birth of the child that causes the individual to diverge from fitrah. Hence if someone follows an aberrant path it is not because of any innate wrong within his nature, but because of the emergence of the lower self or nafs after birth, and negative effects in the social circumstances. The concept of fitrah as original goodness, in my view, does not merely connote a passive receptivity to good and right action, but an active inclination and a natural innate predisposition to know Allâh, to submit to Him and to do right. This is man’s natural tendency in the absence of contrary factors. Although all children are born in a state of fitrah, the influence of the environment is decisive; parents may influence the religion of the child by making him a Christian, Jew or Magian. If there are no adverse influences, then the child will continuously manifest his fitrah as his true nature. Since many infants are born with gross physical deformities, the maiming referred to in this hadîth is not meant in the physical sense; it means that all children are born spiritually pure, in a state of fitrah. The reference to animals born intact in the central hadîth should be viewed as an analogy to illustrate the parallel spiritual wholeness of children at birth. It is precisely because of man’s free-will and intellect that he is able to overcome the negative influences of the environment and attain to the highest level of psycho-spiritual development, an-nafs al-mutma’innah, ‘the self made tranquil’. At this level, his inner and outer being, his soul and body, are able to conform to the requirements of his fitrah and the dictates of the sharî‘ah. He actualises his fitrah, and attains psycho-spiritual integration and inner peace. Religions may be contrasted with secular philosophies in that the former recognise the transcendent principle of human nature while the latter tend to view man as a material being. Religions usually refer to this transcendent principle as the spirit or the soul in man. Most religions recognise three dimensions within man: body, mind and spirit. Secular theories of human nature tend to recognise only the body and sometimes the mind. Western psychologists such as Carl Jung recognise the spiritual dimension not as an independent unchanging reality, but as a part of the human psyche. Religions in general, with the exception of Hinayana Buddhism, recognise the spiritual dimension of man as a distinct unchanging reality of human nature.
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| | Unrecorded Date Fitrah may be defined as a natural predisposition for good and for submission to the One God. Fitrah pertains to the deep, common spiritual essence of man. It is humankind’s natural and universal innate predisposition for goodness and submission to One God.) Knowledge of Divine mercy as well as knowledge of the innate goodness of the human fitrah, serves three very important functions: firstly it gives the believer hope of salvation and success; secondly, it gives him confidence in his own potential to do right and resist wrong; thirdly, it exhorts and admonishes him to actively pursue all that is right and resist all that is wrong. These are the merits of sincere repentance. Just as the Prophet Adam, peace be upon him, repented and was pardoned for his wrong action, so may his descendents repent and be pardoned for their wrong actions. Accountability and Hevean and hell---Judgement: "The Day when each soul shall find presented whatever it has worked of good and whatever it has worked of evil, it would like that there were between it and that Day a wide space. And Allah warns you of Himself; Allah is Tender to His servants---------Al'Imraan 30.----------"From whom It is averted on the Day, upon him indeed He has had mercy; that is a supreme achievement"---Al-Anam 16.----------"Re-call when Allah said, O Isa surely I shall make thee die and am lifting thee to Me, and am cleansing thee from those who disbelieve, and shall place those who follow thee above those who deny thee till the Day of Resurrection; then to Me shall be the return of you all; then I shall decide between you concerning that in which you have been differing"------Al-Imraan 55.--------"They ask thee to tell them if the Day of Judgment is true. Say thou: Yea! by my Lord, It is the very truth, and you shall not be able to escape"---Yunis 53.---------"Therein every soul will know what it sent before, and they shall be brought back to Allah, their rightful Owner, and there shall stray from them that which they have been wont to forge"---Yunis 30---------"Fair-seeming is made the life of this world to those who disbelieve, and those who scoff at those who believe, whereas those who fear God shall be above them on the Day of Judgment. And Allah provides whom He will without measure."----Al-Baqrah 212.---------"And warn thou therewith those who fear God that they shall be gathered before their Lord, when there shall be no patron nor intercessor beside Him; haply they may become God-fearing."---Al-Anam 51.---------"Remember the Day when He will assemble you, the Day of Assembly; that will be the Day of Mutual Loss and Gain. Then who-soever believes in Allah and acts righteously He will expiate from him his misdeeds and will make him enter the Gardens wherender rivers flow, as abiders therein for ever. That is a great achievment."---Al-Taghabun 9.----------"Our Lord! Surely Thou art the assembler of mankind on a Day of which there is no doubt. Surely Allah does not fail His promise"-----Al'Imraan 9.----------"By the winds sentforth with beneficence, and those raging swiftly, by the spreading winds spreading, and the scattering winds scattering, and the winds that bring down the rememberance, by the way of excuse or warning, verily what you are primised is about to befall. So when the stars are effected, and when the sky is cleft asunder, and when the mountains are carried away by the wind, and when the messengers are assmebled at the appointed time---for that DAY is IT timed? For the DAY of Decision. And knowest thou what the DAY of Decision is? Woe on that DAY to the beliers! Have We not destroyed the acients? And then We shall cause the latter ones to follow them. Thus We do with the culprits. Woe on that DAY to the beliers! Did We not create you of despicable water, which We placed in a safe despository. Till a time limited! So, We decreed. How excellent are We as Decreers! Woe on the DAY to the beliers! Have We not made earth a receptacle, both for the living and the dead, and have placed therein firm and tall mountains and given you to drink of fresh water? Woe on that DAY to the beliers! Depart unto what you were used to belie. Depart unto the shadows three branched---neither shading nor availing against the flame. Verily it shall cast forth sparks like unto a castle. As though they were camles yellow, tawny. Woe on that DAY to the beliers! This is a DAY when they shall not be ab le to speak. Nor shall they be permitted, so that they might excuse themselves. Woe on that DAY to the beliers! This is the DAY of Decision. We have assembled you and the ancients. If now you have any craft, try that craft upon Me. Woe on that DAY to the beliers! Verily the God-fearing shall be amid shades and springs, and fruits such as they desire. Eat and drink with relish for what you have been working. Verily We! in this way recompense the well-doers. Woe on that DAY to the beliers! And when it is said: bow down, they do not bow down. Woe on that DAY to the beliers! In what discourse then, after it, will they believe?----Al-Naba.---------"Allah! there is no god but He. Surely He will gather you together on the Day of Judgement of which there is no doubt, and who is more truthful in discourse than Allah"----Al-Nisaa 87.----------"And We shall set BALANCES OF JUSTICE FOR THE DAY OF JUDGEMENT. Then no one will be WRONGED at all if it be but the weight of a grain of mustand-seed, We shall bring it; and suffice We as RECKONERS"---Al-Anbiya. 47
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| | Unrecorded Date Excuse me brothers- Huriwaa and Bshir Abdi- but I really could not RESIST! To Extreme: Not all souls are created equal, and not all men can understand what surrounds them. For example: in classroom settings- some people get "A's, others B's, and most C's. And in the work environment- some are management, some workers and others janitors. This is also true in the spiritual world. You argue that religion is for control. Maybe that is all you have been able to understand. Now for a person with spiritual development- the A or B student -religion is not about control- but about faith. The constant search for the truth- to them it is a quest to understand the Creator. To the C or D student- religion is seen as a bunch of rituals to be followed out of fear. You argue that no one would follow the "Quran" if it did not mention Hell or Heaven. This is a very simplistic view. Think about it this way- as a warning. The Quran speaks of "Heaven and Hell" to warn the people. How can Allah judge us if we don't know what the repercussions are. First we are told the truth. Then we are told about the consequences of ignoring/following the truth. Then we are left to our devices. Allah gave us the will to follow Him or not. And also if the hell of brimstone and bubbling fountains of lava- leave you bored. Think about it this way: Heaven is being in the presence of Pure Good- while Hell is the absence of good- the void- an abyss of darkness. About "Knowing the future"- you state that "if you did. It wouldn't be worth the living. You would already know anything. No surprise or anything. People would stop living at this fact." I think you are trying to say that "knowing the future would take away ones will in living"- Not so. This is the most complex of issues. See, we are the masters of our own destiny. We CHOOSE which path we will take in our lives. Each soul must pass through its own gates toward its own destiny. Now Allah is the creator of all and hence knows what choices we will make BEFORE we make them- because he KNOWS us. But we MAKE the choice ourselves. Do you see? God knows the future but has given us the will to choose our path. "ALLAH judges you by the reactions of others and what you do." Now, excuse me, but this is the most illogical and unclear thought I have read to date. Do you judge people by how others react to them????? So does that mean that you are unable to Judge with your own faculties and senses? Don't you have your own "reaction"- this is insulting. One of the characteristics of a human- is his/her potential to control their own reactions. We are the only creation on earth that can "control" our reaction- arguably some of us have not attained this! Here is an example. A judge/jury in a courtroom- does he/she/they pass judgment on a case based on "how others in the courtroom reacted"? Or does the judge/jury listen to all the facts and then pass judgement based on the evidence? Think. Then you said "So if he controls the sky (the moon, the sun) He would then also have planned. eclipses." The orbits of planets, stars and galaxies are precise. This is in physics. The Quran is the only book in existence that speaks of orbits and "materials in space"- over 1400 years ago. Visit your local space/science museum for more on this topic. Then you asked "ARE WE THE ONLY CREATION!" In the Quran, Allah refers to himself as the "Lord of the Worlds"- not "one world" but multiple! So that is your answer.
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| | Unrecorded Date Man you guys have been busy. We've now eclipsed Tolstoy in Volume. Bashir, I have a simple question for you. Is there a reason that I should suddenly pronounce my belief in the Qur'an besides fear of he after-life? It seems as if that's the whole motivator; as if the Qur'an were one giant warning triangle. As if the only reason I should follow Gods directives int he book are because I fear the penalty if I don't.
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| | Unrecorded Date 'The mindless fear of deception.' So you are saying that I'm a C or D student.(shows how much you know) If I would be the smartest man on earth and I would not believe in god, you would say to me that I am a C or D student(please). I know what your argument will be: But if he was the smartest man he would believe in god. So don't bother. 'Seeing what is there.' If Allah would have existed would he be almighty. Would he be able to created everything or has he also boundary's. You are devining him as a person and that is not what I believe. God is everything. Not a person. So if you direct him with 'he' it would be wrong. 'Scientific facts are there. It's for you how to interped these.' If this is the only book that says that there are materials in space. Do you really think that only the ones that readed the Koran would know this(yeah right). There were far more advanced civilizations than the arabic culture. Don't think you were the first. For example the Egyptians already news this. The Incans, Mayans, and loads of other cultures.(if you don't believe me go to your local book-store) And do you really believe that I wouldn't know anything about space. Please. If we would test our knowledge we would see who knows the most. 'Words can be interpeted in different ways.' If you say that he is the ruler of more worlds. This does not say that there is life there. It only says that he is the ruler. Further more, I believe that there is a chance of life in the universe, and I don't believe somebody created it. It all relies on the circumstances. I wonder if there was a comet headed towarch us and the whole world would be already converted to the Islam. Would your god save you then. Would your god, save his intire creation or would he just let you die. Also if he created the humans, did he also created the dinosaurs. And what was the point of this. Was he practising, before he created us. They had no real purpose in life only destruction. 'The future is what you make of it.' If he already would know al our choices what was the point of him releasing us on too the world. Nothing, absolutely nothing. It would be as watching a re-run on tv. Conclusion: Religion is based on scientific facts. And you are using the same religion to attack scientist. This is Futile. The book has helped a lot of people and contains a lot of informatian. But we our SELVES would find it all out on our own. Huriwaa, sorry I didn't had time to read your story( to Big and that is a understatement). This is about the explanation of the religion. You aren't suppose to write from the book. Please use your own words. I will read it in a few days, when I have time. Peace.
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| | Unrecorded Date Extreme- you have totally lost me with your writing. I don't think you understood what I wrote- at all. First- I used the parable of the class room grades to show you that as in the classroom, spiritual faith levels vary among humans. Second- you say were the dinosaurs juts for practice. I don't know! I wasn't around 60 million years ago. Were you? Third, you said would my God save me if there was a comet heading towards earth? How do you define saving? If the comet would lead me to my final resting place- which is heaven or hell- what am I being saved from? fourth, you mentioned that the aztecs and Egyptians knew about "materials in space and orbits"- this my dear person is an absolute joke! LOL! Now I can start my weekend with laughter. Weren't the egyptians those who thought that the stars in the sky were parts of the body of their god- after he was cut up into pieces by Seth (his brother)? And the Aztec used to think of the stars as divine!? You equate that knowledge with the knowledge in God's books? And finally you say "what is the point of life- and equate it to God watching a rerun on TV"- see you missed my entire point. Again, HE knows what we will do before we do it- HOWEVER- HE HAS GIVEN US THE CHOICE TO CHOOSE. By having the will to choose and choosing- we will either earn eternal peace or loose big time! And that dear person is the ESSENCE OF LIFE. He is the "ruler of the Worlds" and THAT should tell you that there is life elsewhere. Because WHAT IS THE POINT OF RULING AN ABYSS. Comprende? My goodness, you truly have been wasting your time in the pursuit of the mundane.
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| | Unrecorded Date ExTrEmE, You missed Carweelo's point. Satan is the smartest being there is, in terms of knowledge of God. Satan knows God more than any smart person and he believes God's existance. However, despite his knowledge, he committed what is called KUFUR (REJECTION). So it is Satan's loss and those who follow his footsteps. However, later he will reject and deny that he misled you. I hope this was explanation enough. By the way, the explanation can be found and came from the BOOK (the QURAN), not me.
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| | Unrecorded Date Can some-one write about something he has admited to having a little knowledge of? Extreme has admitted that his knowledge of the Quran is limited. His is arguing from a point of ignornace. The same goes for Mad Mac. Guys, one can not critique something that one has no indepth knowledge of. Learn the quran in its totality, then attempt to challenge it.
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| | Unrecorded Date Peace unto those who are rightly guided My Bro/Sis in Islam arguing none Muslims somehow is not good It my lead offensive when someone says Mohamed was so and so on or your book have Errors. the best way to call none Muslims is to tell them read quran, if they believes that is what we wants if not is up to them . This is the simple way to approach ppl instead of debating days.And this is my back up from quran 1-Invite(mankind)to the Way of your Lord (i.e. Islâm) with wisdom (i.e. with the Divine Inspiration and the Qur'ân) and fair preaching, and argue with them in a way that is better. Truly, your Lord knows best who has gone astray from His Path, and He is the Best Aware of those who are guided. An-Nahl - 16:125 2-And argue not with the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), unless it be in (a way) that is better (with good words and in good manner, inviting them to Islâmic Monotheism with His Verses), except with such of them as do wrong, and say (to them): "We believe in that which has been revealed to us and revealed to you; our Ilâh (God) and your Ilâh (God) is One (i.e. Allâh), and to Him we have submitted (as Muslims)." Al-'Ankabut - 29:46 To: My Brothers in Humanity you may read what some new Muslims said about islam and the way they Entered rigth path. http://www.al-sunnah.com/onlyforyou.htm http://www.islam.org/Mosque/MyJourney/default.htm http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/newmuslims/
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| | Unrecorded Date Sumaya. Extreme was not born to a muslim parents as far as he told us nor Mad Mac. They have tons of questions in their mind. They could be pretending but how far can someone pretend? Not too long. If they pose questions we MUST answer if we Know. All along we directed them to the Quran and they can understand we are not speaking about us but about God. Allah can make both Mad Mac and Extreme better muslims than we are. If we have the message of blessing and guidance, we must not keep it to us but share with others in the proper manner. All I see is a typical media and cultural background that has affected both Mad and Extreme. I am sure they are exposed to the goodness of islam and would like to know more about it. The way they ask is based on their knowledge of Allah which is very minute. But their persistence although negative at the most is the conflict within their soul that forced them to speak and defy Islam. They just want to prove Islam wrong to find the truth. Only someone in their position can understand how they feel. Allah knows best. I hope in the future with sincere mind they can both become muslims. If they have questions they can post. That is all I have to Add. All Mad Mac and Extreme are saying are the same stuff people said to their messengers. "41:43. Nothing is said to you that was not said to the messengers before you: surely your lord has at His Command (all) Forgiveness as well as a most Grievous Chastisement."
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| | Unrecorded Date If you would say something about the world, the world would say. What would you know, I have bin here all my live, but you, you have lived here for about 30 years and will live till you're 100. Point: I doubt it if the Islam has all the knowledge of the world. The World is so big, even the Koran wouldn't have all the answers. Tell me this. Do you have the original Koran. Did you actually see it. If not, how can you speak about this, it undoubtly most have bin copied about a billion times over. Do you actually believe that it didn't lost anything during the copiing. Tell me this: Why didn't God gave the Koran earlier than 1600 years agoo. Maybe it could prevented all those wars. Why 1600 years agoo. It doesn't even make sence. WHY??
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| | Friday, September 01, 2000 - 03:01 pm I agree with ExTrEme. even tough i haven't read all that •••• u wrote, i think religion is just like a culture, i mean it has nothing to do with god and stuff, no body can tell if thereis god ...... that is the truth bro... don't bleive the ARABS
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