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     | Unrecorded Date The other one was full again. I didn't get trough again. for the responce: I never was in pursuit of the Mandane. 'For all the riches of the world will not trough me off my mission.' (the true meaning of life.) For the dinosaur remark. You acted like you knew anything (You don't)that's why I put it in. If I would live my life out and would agree with everything you are saying, then I would be saved. But in other religions it sez that if I don't do it in there way I would perish. So how can I decide wich book is the true book. My final message(back in a few days) I think that what you believe for your self is true. So if I think that I would live a surtain way and follow it, I would end up there. There for: If I would believe in reincarnation, I would be subjected to it, when I'm dead. I know you will not agree, but I accept it. 'Savior in yourself, by acting out your best way of life.'
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| | Unrecorded Date Extreme said: "If I would live my life out and would agree with everything you are saying, then I would be saved. But in other religions it sez that if I don't do it in there way I would perish. So how can I decide wich book is the true book." Listen, there is no need repeating the same arguments all the time. I agree that there are many religions and books. And non of them are correct in their interpretation of God. Only Islam does. You can compare them by reading without making a decision based on your ignorance about Islam. See what it teaches. That is the short answer. You are not inclined to accept anything as long as you are a thinking adult human being except what is reasonable and common sense. That is what Islam teaches. Use Your Intelligence To discern Facts From Fiction. Quran: "16.78 It is He Who brought you forth from the wombs of your mothers when you knew nothing; and He gave you hearing and sight and intelligence and affections: that you may give thanks (to Allah)." "7.10 It is We Who have placed you with authority on earth, and provided you therein with means for the fulfillment of your life: small are the thanks that you give!" "22.5 O mankind! if you have a doubt about the Resurrection, (consider) that We created you out of dust, then out of sperm, then out of a leech-like clot, then out of a morsel of flesh, partly formed and partly unformed, in order that We may manifest (Our power) to you; and We cause whom We will to rest in the wombs for an appointed term, then do We bring you out as babes, then (foster you) that you may reach your age of full strength; and some of you are called to die, and some are sent back to the feeblest old age, so that they know nothing after having known (much), and (further), you see the earth barren and lifeless, but when We pour down rain on it, it is stirred (to life), it swells, and it puts forth every kind of beautiful growth (in pairs)." Listen, those verses and many more verses that give the reader a true picture of humanity and what it is are found in the Quran. Go get the Quran and don't repeat all the time the same superstition of incarnation and whatnots. Oh! another thing, buy a faster computer so that you will be able to download long thread without a proplem dutch boy.
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| | Unrecorded Date My computer isn't slow this site is slow. It keeps giving me that infernal ERROR message. Did YOU actually read the other books instead of only the Koran. If you did, then you can talk. But if you didn't read them why should I speak to you, cause you are also speaking out of ignorance. You are pointing the finger at me, now I'm pointing the finger at you. And what do you mean with 'We', in verse 7.10 and the other verses.
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| | Unrecorded Date Bashir Two points saahib. The first is that there's a flaw in the logic train. Just because the Qur'an makes some points which subsequently turn out to be valid does not mean that EVERYTHING in the Qur'an is valid. The Book of Mormon also demonstrates the same phenomenon. In one passage it states not to drink black tea or coffee because it hurts your bones. Medical science has now proven that caffeine content in coffee and black tea weakens the marrow in your bones. Does this mean everything in the book of Mormon is correct. They have a bunch of these observations just like the Qur'an. Also, I have a question. I notice a consistent trend in the Qur'an which is threatening in tone. I must believe or I will go to hell. What's wrong with that picture?
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| ExTrEmE...........what ever, ya aint seeing me here anytime soon. | Unrecorded Date Mad Mac don't talk to them any more. I just realised that there all bigits. You can't change there mind. They know there right. And act upon it. But here is a newsflash: Your wrong and you don't even know it. In eveything you and all those others told me. It comes to mind to you find your self surperior then everyone. Every religion is wrong accept the Islam. MY ASS. I aint going to go any further with this. You are a bunch of STUBBORN FOOLS ALL OF YOU. You talk about accepting everything, that your tolarant. MY ASS. LATER, Last you see me HERE. Bunch of bigits. You elude the questions with more questions. And you know that no one can answer them and then you proclaim yourself as the winners. If that what you want. Fine by me. See ya, And what I conclude is about those verses you keep quoting. It only says that a bunch of REALLY smart people wrote the Koran. Just as earlier said: all information that was available at the time. So don't give me any of that ......, that only Allah could have given you these facts.
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| | Unrecorded Date Only in your login train Mad Mac. You said: "Just because the Qur'an makes some points which subsequently turn out to be valid does not mean that EVERYTHING in the Qur'an is valid." Really, we are back to square one. It looks like you are obsessed with the Quran Having fallacy which you can't show personally. I told you Mad several times and I will repeat it now; Since you have the Quran why not post the verses that are not logical to you for all to see?. If you can't and you won't, would you come up with legitimate questions and concerns that you have and need to understand about them?. You see, several people complained about you and Extreme just being out of your way repeating the same accusations when you can't show the proplem the Quran has. I hope next time, you make your claim legitimate by bringing the evidence or discard this nuisance and ask questions that might benefit you if you are sincere about the whole subject like your second question which sounds more reasonable given your situation. Qur'an: "2.23 And if you are in doubt as to what We have revealed from time to time to Our servant, then produce a Sürah like thereunto; and call your witnesses or helpers (if there are any) besides Allah, if your (doubts) are true." Not only you are asked to produce a chapter, but look for all the help you can get to write something like it. Fair enough?. If you don't want "you both Extreme and Mad" accept that challenge then know that you are liers and ignorant individuals who are proving themselves to be unreasonable and are not worth any talk at all. Guys, I am not willing to become your agent in bad mouthing the speech of Allah. If you want to be fair do as you are challenged in the above verse. If you can't do it which I am sure you won't then other concerns should be priority. There is an open challenge for those who claim the fallacy of the Quran and are in love with their disbelieve. "17.88 Say: "If the whole of mankind and Jinns were to gather together to produce the like of this Qurán, they could not produce the like thereof, even if they backed up each other with help and support." Listen you stubborn heads, The Quran is written in a normal language spoken by millions. Yet no one since its revelation wrote anything like it. No one can. It is a challenge, do it if you can. Otherwise the devil is using your tainted thoughts and disbelieve to make you those who convey what Satan wants others to hear about the Quran. "Whoever, forsaking Allah, takes Satan for a friend, has of a surety suffered a loss that is manifest."4.119 "4.120 Satan makes them promises, and creates in them false hopes; but Satan's promises are nothing but deception." Allah has warned both you MAD mac AND Extreme when he said: "7.27 O you Children of Adam! Let not Satan seduce you, in the same manner as he got your parents out of the Garden, stripping them of their raiment, to expose their shame: for he and his tribe watch you from a position where you cannot see them: We made the Satans friends (only) to those without faith." "14.22 And Satan will say when the matter is decided: "It was Allah Who gave you a promise of Truth: I too promised, but I failed in my promise to you. I had no authority over you except to call you but you listened to me: then reproach not me, but reproach your own souls. I cannot listen to your cries, nor can you listen to mine. I reject your former act in associating me with Allah. For wrong-doers there must be a grievous chastisement." That is enough about the warning of devil and his soldiers who work deligently to mislead others by way of lies. And remember, next time you post the same accusation without a tangible prove you are satan's soldiers: "35.6 Verily Satan is an enemy to you: so treat him as an enemy. He only invites his adherents, that they may become Companions of the Blazing Fire." If I seem different it is because you guys are not listening to our suggestions. We agree to wait for you untill you find the fallacies you are looking for but before then don't repeat the same rhetoric time and again. Please. Mad SAID"Also, I have a question. I notice a consistent trend in the Qur'an which is threatening in tone. I must believe or I will go to hell. What's wrong with that picture?. In reality, the only thing that is wrong with the picture is your attitude towards the Quran. Usually when someone has his own set ideas about something it is likely that he will see it according to that idea he had imprinted in his mind period. Because, when you claim that visualization of the Quran, Millions read it everyday and are really satisfied with it. Why don't they see it the way you do just a continous threat?. Is It because they are idiots or insane or there is something wrong with you personally. The Quran is really a guide and mercy. "46.12 And before this, was the Book of Moses as a guide and a mercy: and this Book confirms (it) in the Arabic tongue; to admonish the unjust, and as Glad Tidings to those who do right." "17.89 And We have explained to man, in this Qurán, every kind of similitude: yet the greater part of men refuse (to receive it) except with ingratitude!" "18.54 We have explained in detail in this Qurán, for the benefit of mankind, every kind of similitude: but man is, in most things, contentious." That is how you guys act towards the Quran. Extreme doesn't have one yet but I suspect even if he gets one it is only to find loopholes and mistakes which will be very dissappointing for him. We muslims treat the Quran differently: "22.54 And that those on whom knowledge has been bestowed may learn that the (Qurán) is the Truth from your Lord, and that they may believe therein, and their hearts may be made humbly (open) to it: for verily Allah is the Guide of those who believe , to the Straight Way." Anyway I will answer if I can the Questions Extreme asked about the WE in the Quran next time I log on inshallah. Till then, take care. If my answer to you guys was dissappointing I didn't mean it but it was the reaction I felt was important to this continous unreasonable take on the Quran that you guys like to indulge. If there is something wrong show us. How many times do we have to say that.
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| | Unrecorded Date Believe me Extreme, you show your lack of ability to prove anything when you threaten to leave and not come. I have a short answer for you though "GOOD RIDDANCE IF YOU GO". I knew for an atheist you were trying hard to conceal your true colour and now you showing your impoliteness, what brother huriwaa has been telling about you is real minus Mad Mac. He gets some credit because he is reading the Quran as he told us. Well, you will save somalinet a space and will make happy a lot of people who had enough of you already. Anytime you come back though, I am willing to read to you THE DOOMSDAY PHYSICS to make your head a little bit balanced. Adios.
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| | Unrecorded Date But Bashir Back to my second question. Is there a reason to accept the Qur'an besides my fear of the consequences? Is that what should be driving me? It's as if I had a dog and threatened to beat him if he did not do what I said. And anyone who knows anything about dogs (or people) will tell you that's not the way to get results. As I told you earlier, anything that says my father is damned, will never get my total support. My father was the best man I ever met.
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| | Unrecorded Date MAD MAC, If I were a betting man (which I'm not), I'll bet that you had *respect* for your father's *authority* and did not refuse the rules in the home when you were kid. I bet you knew the consequences for not having respect for your father's authority. I bet you had respect for his rules. I bet the love you had for him and the consequences of refusing his authority drove you to accept the rules in the home. I bet that if he told you to go to school and you refused to attend school while living under his roof, he would forced you to attend school or else leave from his home. I bet that you feared your father when you were a kid living in his home. I bet you knew the consequences of disobeying him. If your father disobeyed God and did not believe in Him, his Books and His prophet, His God's rules and not believe God's Oneness, he will get what he desired and chosen. Human being have choice to choose---to obey and get to the nice home (to the heaven) or to disobey and get to the not so nice home (to the hell). It is not Allah's fault that you and your father choose your home in the hereafter after refusing and not respecting Allah’s *authority*. Animals, on the other hand, do not have free will. Allah will not tell the animals that they would not be in his home (in heaven), because animals are not accountable for their deeds.
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| | Unrecorded Date Hirwaa- Ad your betting to this: I bet mad mac (who is a soldier) fears the consequences of disobeying and denying orders in peace time, war time, or during a training exercise from his superiors. I bet he fears what he would face if he were to deny, disobey and ignore any milatary law and will be in violation of military. The penalty will be doubled. Minimum-Warning, Maximum- Court Marshall and eventually the fear of loosing of his milatary career.
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| | Unrecorded Date Mad mac. I think warsame and Huriwaa have given a perfect answer to your question Mad Mac. Every individual is responsible for himself. You are not willing to take in place of your father if he committed a crime breaking the Us Law and is going to jail. You would say to him although you might wish his freedom: "If you do the crime, You do the Time". I am not the one who invented that saying. It all fits the logic train. Your father had responsibility towards Allah. He was supposed to believe in Allah the way Allah wanted your father to believe in him. If he messed up he will do his time. I think if you knew better, you would be worried too much about yourself. You see, you talking like you are right yourself and wish your father would be as right as you are. In any case, you need to correct yourself first and then worry about your father and mother. If your father is dead that is it. He is gone. His case lies with Allah and Allah is always there to reward his servants according to their deeds. Allah is just and oft-forgiving. Allah also warns people in their lifetime sending messengers to them and books to read and reflect upon. If you take pride in yourself and think you are better suited than others and don't take heed in ALlah's message, Allah has every right to punish and to damn you to hell forever without anyone asking him why. Yes, there are reasons to believe in Allah other than being afraid of his punishments. Willing to get good rewards and heaven. A beatiful life that has no end, knows no death and sickness. An eternal life that promises happiness with no worries. You get all you can think of and ten folds on top of your wishes. But you have to earn that privilege the same you earn the hell. It is all the result of your choice. Everything you do speaks of Allah. Even in your daily life you are driven by the rules Allah set forth for you though you disbelieve in him. You eat from his creation of plants and from the meat of his animals. And enjoy all that he gave you without you thankig him even a single second in your life. But you are here to claim Allah's book is false and doesn't agree with logic. Believe me, If Allah wasn't merciful he would have thrown your heart out today for saying that. But Allah doesn't like his servants being disbelievers to him and is always giving them chances to believe in him before it is too late. That is why there is more life than death, more health than sickness, more of everything good than more of everything bad. If you are serious, you can read the Quran with positive attitude and not expect that you only hear what your unbelieving self wants to hear. "3.179 Allah will not leave the believers in the state in which you are now, until He separates what is evil from what is good. Nor will He disclose to you the secrets of the Unseen. But He chooses of His Messengers (for the purpose) whom He pleases. So believe in Allah, and His messengers: And if you believe and do right, you have a great reward (without measure)." There you have it Mad Mac. Allah is talking to you directly. Evil must be separated from GOOD. Allah has secrets and won't disclose it to everybody untill After death. Allah chose messengers among people to convey his message to others. If you believe in Allah and Do right YOU HAVE A GREAT REWARD. Look, if you are the brilliant guy you claim you are, what is more just than the above VERSE of ALLAH. Either you believe in him or disbelieve in him. And then don't feel sorry neither for yourself nor your father if you get hammered by Allah for your disbelieves. It all makes sense. There is no excuse for you. You have the Quran. It is Allah's guide and message. Read and reflect.
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| | Unrecorded Date A little correction: At the end of my posting should read "There you have it Mad Mac. Evil must be separated from GOOD. Allah has secrets and won't disclose it to everybody untill After death. Allah chose messengers among people to convey his message to others. If you believe in Allah and Do right YOU HAVE A GREAT REWARD."
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| | Unrecorded Date Bashir, the secret and the unseen is in the question: "...Shall We then treat the people of Faith like the people of Sin? What is the matter with you? How judge you?" (68:34-36)
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| | Unrecorded Date What MAD MAC alleges is that the God in the Quran is a stern and cruel God who demands to be obeyed fully. In other word, He is not loving and kind. But nothing can be farther from truth than this allegation. It is enough to know that, with the exception of one, each of the 114 chapters of the Quran begins with the verse: "In the name of God, the Merciful, the Compassionate." In one of the sayings of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) we are told that "God is more loving and kinder than a mother to her dear child." But God is also Just. Hence evildoers and disbelievers must have their share of punishment and the virtuous, His bounties and favors. Actually God's attribute of Mercy has full manifestation in His attribute of Justice. People suffering throughout their lives for His sake and people oppressing and exploiting other people all their lives should not receive similar treatment from their Lord. Expecting similar treatment for them will amount to negating the very belief in the accountability of man in the Hereafter and thereby negating all the incentives for a moral and virtuous life in this world.
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| | Unrecorded Date An Islamic lesson for MAD MAC: Faith in God: A Force or a Choice? According to Islam, every child is born with the built-in ability to know and believe in his Creator; he has the cognition that has been placed by Allah in his nature (fitra). Allah describes the human soul in a very beautiful way. After swearing by the most majestic signs of His creation, Allah says: "...and by the soul and He who perfected it! Then He inspired to it [the ability to understand] what is good for it and what is evil for it. Successful is he who purifies it, and failure is he who corrupts it." (91:1-10) Allah has made our souls such that we are able to distinguish what is good and what is evil. But for a human soul to function on its fitra, there is a condition-it must be kept pure, it must be immunized against spiritual corruption. The soul is like a bulb which can give light, provided it itself is not surrounded with a thick cover or dust; every human being has that light in his soul; however, those who keep it pure can enlighten their path with it, while those who allow the 'spiritual dirt' to accumulate on it cannot see their path towards Allah. (Incidentally, kufr literally means a cover.) Besides this fitra, Allah has also provided us with various means to know Him and believe in Him; He sent prophets and messengers, He sent books, and above all He created thousands of signs in nature which remind us of Him. "Soon We shall show them Our signs on the horizon and in themselves (anfus), until it becomes clear to them that this is the Truth." (41:53) Having accepted that from the Islamic point of view, faith in God is ingrained in human nature, and that it is only the parents and the society that corrupt the soul and divert it from the Right Path. "Surely the Right Path is clearly distinct from the crooked path." The Western world limits treason to political and military terms. In the USA, treason consists "only in levying war against Americans, and in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort." However, sometimes even the Western world stretches the concept of political treason to include things which are not related to politics or military matters. For example, in England, treason includes violating the King's consort, or raping the monarch's eldest married daughter, as well as the sexual violation of the wife of the eldest son and heir. Even now, "polluting" the Royal bloodline or obscuring it is included in the definition of treason. Why has England included such non-political and non-military matters in treason? Because the Royal family and the purity of its bloodline is one of the most significant part of the British society and culture. In Islam, the concept of treason is not limited to political and military affairs, it also has a spiritual and cultural dimension to it. In the Islamic order of sacredness, Allah, then the Prophet and then the Qur'an occupy the highest positions. Tawhid, nubuwwa, and qiyama form the constitution of Islam. Just as upholding and protecting the constitution of a country is sign of patriotism, and undermining it is a form of treason in the site of Western World-------in the same way rejection of the fundamental beliefs of Islam is an act of treason in the site of God.
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| | Unrecorded Date MOST SURELY SHIRK (KUFUR) IS A GRIEVOUS OPPRESSION (SIN)!" (31:13) Why is it a "SIN," an "OPPRESSION" (zulm)? Who is "OPPRESSED?" It is "oppression on your self," a sin "against your own true self (nafs)!" Having been quite veiled of your own truth, your own essence, your original being, you worship a DIETY off in the heights somewhere, out there beyond yourself, and as such you fall into a polytheism against "ALLAH" by ascribing a partner to HIM. Eventually, that SHIRK--KUFUR leaves you deprived of countless qualities all available within the reality of your own soul! Here, this is the greatest oppression you ever bring on your self, on your own soul (nafs)! In point of fact, the ever ultimate oppression on yourself is to remain deprived of the reality of your own SOUL" (nafs), that you indicate by the word "I". That it is you who bring such oppression on yourself because of not fulfilling the necessary labor on its path. The rule that "he who does not know himself cannot know his Lord (Rabb)" results from the statement that "He who knows himself knows his Lord." Then further, to be arif (cognizant) of "ALLAH" is only possible after understanding "ALLAH." Such awareness can come only after comprehending what ALLAH is. Here our words come full circle to the point of "I," the selfhood, again! This subject is actually looked into in our book entitled "KNOW YOURSELF" in a wide sense. Still, we shall open it to some extent also here. As there is no other being along with "ALLAH," then what or who is referred by the word "I?" How does it come into being? Are there any clues given to us in order to reach a clarification about this? It must be specified that in answering these questions one must not create a contradiction with the meaning of "ALLAH" that we have tried to explain up to this point. Otherwise, if we bring an explanation which contradicts any of the points we informed so far, then we would get completely stuck in a false idea and consequently fall into the error of dualism of "a man and also his God!" The following information is available in the Koran al Karim about the aim of man's existence: "No doubt that I am placing on earth a khaliph." (2:30) The Book also specifies how man become a khaliph on earth in this way: "We taught him all the names." (2:31) What we first notice here is that man is the khaliph "on earth." What should be examined secondly is the reason of being a "khaliph." Which properties have given the man the quality of "being a khaliph?" As the answer to this question is given by the latter sign above: "We taught him all the names." The information given here is that Man (insan) has been brought to being along with a capacity and an aptitude to unfold and carry out as much of ALLAH's countless names as ALLAH wished. The endowment of such a capacity and aptitude to man is what "teaching him all the names" refers to. How really did that being called "human," who has been formed with a capability of carrying out the divine names, and the universe or universes he lives within, show up? Let us suppose you take a journey on a boat and meanwhile you begin a good friendship with the Captain on board. But, on striking an iceberg on its route, the boat is threatened by the danger of sinking. Then you hear the Captain's announcement on board: "The boat is sinking! All the passengers should immediately acquire a life jacket!" Some of the passengers take heed of his warning and get hold of a life jacket promptly. But, you say: "I believe in the Captain. I love him!" But you do not get hold of a life jacket, nor take a step. The boat is sinking in the process and everybody on board finding themselves in the water! Drowning, floating and sinking, you begin to beg the sea: "Oh sea, please do not let me drown! I used to believe in the Captain and love him!" The sea will replay in the mute language as follows: "If you had believed in the Captain, you would have been equipped with a life jacket now and would not have fallen into this situation! Not your belief in the Captain but instead following his warnings would be useful now, at this place. Your belief in the Captain was useful for you while on board. This is the place where your deeds are rewarded. Your belief or disbelief in the Captain is not discussed here any longer! If you had really had faith in the Captain and loved him, you would have taken heed of his warnings on board and would not have fallen into this situation now!" But people are in obvious need of fulfilling particular kinds of practices in the Allah's orders in the Quran-- specified in order to actualize the potential powers within. Only then they may protect themselves from the torments and afflictions of the environment that will be confronted! If you believe in the totallity of Allah's Words in the Quran and fulfill the given practices on the path He informed and in the manner he specified and if you could actualize such potentials within your self, then you may save yourself from the environment known as "hell-fire." However, no matter how frequently you claimed "you believed," in case you do not fulfill such necessary practices on the path and in a manner the Quran specified, you will not have the properties and power required for the circumstances there and will consequently find yourself in "hell-fire!" "And for all there are degrees from what they do, that He may pay them for their deeds and they shall not be wronged" (46:19) "This is the reward of your misdeeds. ALLAH is not unjust to his servants!" (22:10) If so, grow in understanding and do not "oppress (zulm) your own soul (nafs)" by way of wasting (israf) the treasure of brain, its energy and your lifetime on earth in favor of things that you are going to abandon in this world through tasting death, and which will bring no benefit to you in the realm of life to come! "No doubt, ALLAH does not love the intemperate (wasteful)" (7:31) By "intemperate" (wasteful) in this sign not only the material spender but those "who are intemperate toward their own souls," "who waste (israf) their own souls (nafs)" are meant. It is said that, "do not waste" the divine qualities laid within yourself, within your soul, due to not appreciating them rightfully, since they are the virtues to enable you for the quality of khaliphate! What if you would waste something sometime before you left it in this world in any case, or not? But if you waste something that you are for ever in need of and you will never be able to get back again, in this case, it will ultimately turn out to be such a wrong (cruelty) you have done onto yourself that it is impossible to tell the grief of your regret that it will bring! It will leave you in an eternal disappointment to fail to appreciate your own soul rightfully which would give you simply divine forces and life in the Hereafter,. The reality of the Hereafter is completely different from that of this world! "And let every soul look to what he has sent forth for the morrow." (59:18) It means that, whatever deed man does in this world today will form what he will find in the next, tomorrow! If we genuinely desire to prepare ourselves for our lives beyond death, first of all we need to start with "ALLAH" and learn what is indeed meant through the name "ALLAH"! All our misdeeds are basically caused by labeling and calling commonly the imagined GOD in our minds as "ALLAH.", especailly people are raised into believing sata clause, easter bunny and other folk tales like god in three. "Have you seen those who have made GODs of their own fancies?" (25:43) As our misunderstanding of religion is commonly established on our acceptance of a GOD image by way of imitation (taqlid), we often fall into a state of denial and revolt finally that lead us in the process to give no heed to anything. However, if only we could understand the information that AHAD is "ALLAH," conceive that there is no god but Allah---comprehend that each one of us will be rewarded BY OUR OWN DEEDS only, then our life would entirely alter!
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| | Unrecorded Date Nicely done Huriwaa. I think enough for the weekend for Mad Mac to get by. Mad Can still ask questions without any unproven claims about the Quran. Just if he would ask the same questions like the one about his concerns of his father and other issues will be great. No offence shall be felt then and no proplems will come to us since we don't like to appear as some would love to claim that we are aiding nonmuslims to stampede on the Quran. Allah is the judge for all including Mad Mac.
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| | Unrecorded Date ooops....It seems we have copy right problems, me- WARSAME - and the "other Warsame" i've seen his input up here!!. No trouble, i know somalis simply love to copy any thing. Since i love my name i'll opt for WarsameX. I'm sure that even this one will be copied before long!!.
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| | Unrecorded Date Bashir What do you mean well done Huriwaa. It takes a graduate of Evelyn Woods speed reading class to get through everything he wrote. don't you guys believe in giving short answers with the bottom line up front? Actually Huriwaa, I was the Black Sheep of the family. The only soldier (My grandfather was drafted and hated the Army), the only womanizer (my father hated that), the only real drinker (the whole family hated that) and the only one to leave Boston and never return (my mother hates that). My father and I got into some bad fights. Esspecially when I was a teenager. My respect for my father did not mean I did not challenge his authority or his ideas. Also, he had no real opportunity to read the Qur'an. He had no exposure to it. He never saw a copy of it. Islam was as alien to him as Budhism. Now if he had been born in Mecca he would have had plenty of exposure. The whole philosophy is flawed - some folks get almost no exposure, some get born into it, some get absolutely none. Come on. The individual proclivity toward Islam is based more on where you were born than any single other factor. That's why there's a bizzilion Moslems in and around the Arabian Peninsula and almost none in South America. Geography is a HUGE factor. Does that sound even handed and just to you? Why didn't God have mutiple prophets all at the same time all over the world visit all the different cultures? Why just Mohamed? That makes no sense whatsoever. That means that the American Indians had to wait more than a millenium to get the message - and many haven't heard it yet. Does that make any sense to you whatsoever?
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| | Unrecorded Date MAD MAC, Actually, you were given two short answers to your question about facing consequences and being accountabile for your actions. The answers that Warsame and I gave you were short answers up front. The rest of the message was for you to read at your leisure time. Maybe you did not like the answer we gave you, especially the implications of breaking the laws in your father's home and the rules in the military. You said you and your father got into some bad fights when you were a kid living in his home------who won the fight when you challenged his authority? By the way, MAD MAC, most Muslims are not Arabs. FYI, maybe mostly the 90% of the one billion Muslims of today are non-Arabs. Since you did not read the rest of the message, here is short message for you: The mushrik, one who violates tawhid, will not be pardoned for his polytheism, irrespective of whether he received the message of Islam or not. Someone who worships trees or earth (whether he is an American Indian or not) will not be forgiven. The distinction between the inborn knowledge of tawhid (which includes the knowledge of right and wrong) and the acquired knowledge of law (which includes what is lawful and unlawful) is significant because of the legal implications of each. On the other hand, the practice of law is only required from the Muslim while the non-Muslim (who did not receive the message of Islam) is not expected to fulfill this obligation. An individual may be forgiven for not practicing the law if he had not received the message of Islam, but he will not be forgiven for rejecting tawhid. It is related that the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said that he saw in a vision an old man at the front of a large tree and around him were children and in the vision he was told that the old man was Ibrahim and that the children who were around him were the children who, before attaining the age of discretion, had died. At this, some Muslims had asked him: "And the children of the polytheists too, Messenger of Allah?" The Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, replied: "The children of the polytheists as well." Being with Ibrahim meant being in Paradise, and this includes children of polytheistic families. It is clear, from the Qur'an and from the hadith, that every child is born with a pure nature, as a Muslim. Islam recognizes that all children, whether born of believing or unbelieving parents, go to Paradise if they die before attaining the age of discretion. Fitrah is the unconfirmed state which exists until the individual consciously acknowledges his belief. Hence, if a child were to die before he attains discretion he would be on of the inmates of Paradise. Islam is also called deen al-fitrah, the religion of human nature, because its laws and its teachings are in full harmony with the normal and the natural inclination of the human fitrah to believe in and submit to the Creator. So, MAD MAC, are you telling us that your father, like you, did not know that there is heaven and hell and accountability of his actions? Did your father (like you) expect just to eat and do anything he wanted while living in this world like animals act and not be accounted for his deeds and belief) Who told your father to worship a human being like Jesus if he was a Christian? Jesus did not tell him that. It does not make sense that you and your father to present excuse for your disbelieve of heaven and hell being real. Allah gave you the intellect to face consequences of your actions and to choose a good situation(heaven) and bad situation(hell). You can not blame Allah for your actions and the implications of breaking and denying the laws of Allah. You are not like the animals, are you, MAD MAC?
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| | Unrecorded Date "No doubt, ALLAH does not love the intemperate (wasteful)" (7:31) By "intemperate" (wasteful) in this sign is not only the material spender but those "who are intemperate toward their own souls," "who waste their own souls" are meant. It is said that, "do not waste" the divine qualities laid within yourself, within your soul, due to not appreciating them rightfully. What if you would waste something sometime before you left it in this world in any case, or not? But if you waste something that you are for ever in need of and you will never be able to get back again, in this case, it will ultimately turn out to be such a wrong (cruelty) you have done onto yourself that it is impossible to tell the grief of your regret that it will bring! It will leave you in an eternal disappointment to fail to appreciate your own soul rightfully which would give you simply divine forces and life in the Hereafter,. The reality of the Hereafter is completely different from that of this world! "And let every soul look to what he has sent forth for the morrow." (59:18) It means that, whatever deed man does in this world today will form what he will find in the next, tomorrow! If we genuinely desire to prepare ourselves for our lives beyond death, first of all we need to start with "ALLAH" and learn what is indeed meant through the name "ALLAH"! All our misdeeds are basically caused by labeling and calling commonly the imagined GOD in our minds as "ALLAH.", but for people who are raised into believing Sata Clause, Easter Bunny and other folk tales like god in three would NOT seperate the just from the unjust---how wicked are these people for demanding from Allah what their instincts ONLY desire. "Have you seen those who have made GODs of their own fancies?" (25:43) "And for all there are degrees from what they do, that He may pay them for their deeds and they shall not be wronged" (46:19) "This is the reward of your misdeeds. ALLAH is not unjust to his servants!" (22:10)
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| | Monday, September 04, 2000 - 07:04 am ASSALAMU ALAYKUM TO ALL MUSLIMS AND PEACE BE UPON HE WHO FOLLOWS THE RIGHT PATH (ISLAM). I have read quite few of what preprogrammed Non Muslims wrote. the result which I have got is an abstract phenomena. I am not in position really to indulge in a long discussion specially when the adversary is not interested in seeking the truth, or appears to be obstinate against the plain truth(Islam). I am not yet in position to do so, when the main intention of the other party is to throw baseless and unreasonable confusion into one's belief rather than seek the truth. For the seeker of the truth: The truth of Islam is crystal clear and we never discuss about that or try to prove that to those who insist deliberately on its contrary, while being innately convinced that there is only one truth which is ISLAM. there is certain level when all the faculties of the wretched and bedeviled fail to conceive the truth such that SEEING THEY SEE NOT, HEARING THEY HEAR NOT, NOR SHALL THEY UNDERSTAND is their identity. Please, all my Muslim Brothers and Sisters, I would kindly advise you to refrain from pointless discussions from which no one will benefit. Please rest assured that it is very important to be aware that every letter and word you write here will be globally demonstrated and you will be responsible of any mistake and misinterpretation of Islam. So,try to either avoid presenting an image of Islam unless otherwise you have reviewed it more than once,discussed the matter with a reliable and knowledgeable Muslim friend,and you are sure of what you are writing. This is not a disencouragment but virtually the matter is of extreme importance:RELIGION We have thousands of clear evidences and proofs for anyone whose intention is to find the truth*, but nothing for the one who fancies mere opposition and reckless argument. Very Important*: In case you would like to humbly explore and find out the truth, please follow these steps: 1-Identify yourself by declaring your religion, creed, denomination, belief,opinion,principle in life, even your lusts. 2-Ask assorted questions of your own provided it is reasonable and pertains to subjective thinking. 3-Be convinced beforehand that religion is Laws,legislations, regulations,rules, tenets, code of life which is the most perfect revealed by the Most high Supreme being(ALLAH)for all creation. There are people who obey it called followers of that religion, and people who disobey it called disbelievers and those who swerve loosely in- between called hypocrites. Religion(Islam)is always ideal and the most perfect. followers, except the messengers and prophets thereof, are not infallible. Islam is complete surrender and submission to Allah, so every religion from Adam's to Muhammad's (SAW)was Islam. 4-Muhammad(SAW)is the last and seal of prophets and messengers. 5-Please think subjectively and seize any opportunity while alive to accept Islam by easily saying:ASH-HADU ALLAA'ILLAAHA ILLALLLAAH WA-ASHHADU ANNA MUHAMMADA RASULULLAAH.then practise its conditions firmly and accordingly. 6- Last but not Least, I pray Allah the Most High to guide you to the right path(Islam), Aameen.
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| | Monday, September 04, 2000 - 09:18 am Abdullah I don't agree with all of it, but yours was a well written post.
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| | Monday, September 04, 2000 - 01:26 pm MAD MAC, you don't agree with these: All our misdeeds are basically caused by labeling and calling commonly the imagined GOD in our minds as "ALLAH.", but for people who are raised into believing Sata Clause, Easter Bunny and other folk tales like god in three would NOT seperate the just from the unjust---how wicked are these people for demanding from Allah what their instincts ONLY desire. "Have you seen those who have made GODs of their own fancies?" (25:43) "And for all there are degrees from what they do, that He may pay them for their deeds and they shall not be wronged" (46:19) "This is the reward of your misdeeds. ALLAH is not unjust to his servants!"(22:10)
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