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Women in Sports

SomaliNet Forum (Archive): Islam (Religion): Archive (Before Sept. 29, 2000): Women in Sports
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MAD MAC

Unrecorded Date
Question. I have a friend, she recently converted to Islam. She is a competetive distance runner, however. Obviously running apparel doesn't cover the arms and legs and the Hijab is somewhat impractical. She asked me about this (believe it or not her Moslem friends were clueless) and I said I'd ask. for Moslem woman who compete in international competition is it generally accepted that this is OK? I notice a lot of distance runners from Kenya and Ethiopia and someone told me there was a Somali woman who won the Bronze medal in the olympics a long time ago. What are the generally accepted guidlines for this?

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Abdul Malik

Unrecorded Date
A woman must not ever show her "beauty" in public regardless what kind of sport she may doing.

I would have recommend that sister to stop that kind of sport (demanding nudity) of which she may deserve Allah's anger.

The best is to satisfy your Lord.

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MAD MAC

Unrecorded Date
According to that approach woman may never compete in international swimming, running, gymnastics, soccer, etc. Are you saying Muslim woman are not allowed to compete in international athletics? What about woman like Tennic Players who make their living from sports?

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huriwaa

Unrecorded Date
MAD MAC,

FYI, men also are not allowed to show their upper legs---tights and lower part of the stomach(the belly, the tummy and the nipples too, thus, men as well as women are not allowed to show their bodies for everyone to see. running, gymnastics, swimming.....and all other activities that are for show are what is called LAHWA---none-sense things, especially when the aim is to show off and please other people's entertainments.) When it is added the showing off the body parts of both men and women, it becomes more than LAHWA.

Both men and women are commanded to lower their gaze and not look at each other's body parts and you are talking about displaying their bodies for everyone to see.! MAD MAC, i think you are missing a big point about Islam. Islam did not come to please and oblige or force you and me what we want. According to the approach the Islam takes about these issues concerning people--is not about what they desire or dislike; it is about what is expected of them(both men and women). Islamic law concerning people is about---take it or leave it--- it is the motto of Islam that people are free to do what they want, but the consequences of their actions (good or bad) are ahead of them. What is good about displaying body parts of men and women, especailly when the aim is to show off and please other people----while at the same time---breaking the law of Islam(lower you gaze)?

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MAD MAC

Unrecorded Date
Huriwaa
OK, now I'm definately missing something. Even the Saudis (who are religious nuts) take part in the olympics and international soccer competition. Are you saying that Islam forbids athletic competition?

A friend of mine in Nairobi told me last year that Al-Itihad will never really get anywhere in Somalia because they are against everything that is fun. Then they claim that Islam says you can't do it (no matter what it is). If your interpretation is right he might have a point. We went to a restarant (he's Somali) that was owned by a fundamentalist and after we ate (you should have seen the stares I got, very funny) they told him he couldn't smoke because nicotine provided a high and that was against Islam.

Anyway, back to the question at hand. Can I extrapolate from this that all forms of liveentertainment, be they sports, theater or whatever, are prohibited by the Qur'an. If that's the case there really are hardly any practicing Muslims on the planet, something I pistulated privately to Bashir not too long ago.

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Ansaari

Unrecorded Date
As muslim men and women,
we can do everything except
what Allah (swt) has forbidden.
The teachings of Islam tell us
what the limits of behaviour are.

Anyone who goes beyond these limits
is likely to meet trouble, both in
this world and in the next world.

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huriwaa

Unrecorded Date
MAC MAD,

I told you that Islam is not about what you and I say or want; Also, Islam is not even about what the Saudis (who are religious nuts) say or what the Al-Itihad say or their interpretation of Islam or mine. Rather, Islam is about what Allah said.

What you are missing is that we do not increase Allah's power if we all practice Islam nor do we decrease Allah's power if we all do not practice what Allah says in the Quran. Islam needs no one; we need Allah and his DIIN(religion).

As brother Ansaari said, "the teachings of Islam tell us what the limits of behavior are. Anyone who goes beyond these limits is likely to meet trouble, both in this world and in the next world."

Muslims commit sin; we are human being (no one is sin free), but when we deny the sins we commit and then say that what Allah said in the Quran is not correct, our postulation is not going to save us from the consequence of our sins. Repentance and Allah's guidance (Islam) can save us from our misgiving, postulation and disbelieve---which can lead us to hell. Again, what is good about displaying body parts of men and women, especailly when the aim is to show off and entertain other people----while at the same time---breaking the law of Islam (lower your gaze and cover your body parts)?

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MAD MAC

Unrecorded Date
Huriwaa
Abowe, you didn't actually answer the question. In your view, is it a sin to men and woman to compete in athletic competition? We all know that athletic clothing is designed to facillitate performance. You don't run as fast in long pants as in short pants. You don't cut as easily on a field with dress shoes and with cleated shoes. You need a swim suit to swim. So my question stands, is it a sin for men and woman to compete in athletic competition?

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huriwaa

Unrecorded Date
MAD MAC,
Actually, I did answer your question twice. It is just that you did not read it. I said that it is a sin to break the law of Islam. Islamic law is not about what can or can not facilitates your desires. I said that Islam (like it or not) is a law and to break an Islamic law is a sin, just like any other law that you have to follow. If you do not follow laws, you'll have to answer it. There are some man made laws that I do not like it, but I have to follow it unless I am asking trouble.

I told you that Muslims commit sins, but they do not deny the sins; only the non-Muslims and ignorant/arrogant ones do not think their doings are not sins. The non-Muslims who do not follow Islamic law do bad things because they feel like it without expecting consequences. Muslims, on the other hand, do bad things (knowingly or unknowingly), then they ask for forgiveness.

What I said that you did not read was this: "what is good about displaying body parts of men and women, especially when the aim is to show off and entertain other people----while at the same time---breaking the law of Islam (lower your gaze and cover your body parts)?

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huriwaa

Unrecorded Date
Speaking of what can facilitate performance, i'm asking, are both man and women (who particiabe the olympic sports) allowed to break the law of Olympics by using steroid----since we all know that steroids is designed to facilitate and enhance performance?

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Anonymous

Unrecorded Date
Why is MAD MAC(a white american) always here with us and always looking for information? always about somali politics or islam?....HMMMMMM!

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MAD MAC

Unrecorded Date
Huriwaa
OK, so I just want to make sure I have this straight. To participate in competetive sports (we'll use the olympics as an example) is a violation of the laws of Islam?
Abowe this is a yes or no question. I want to make sure I'm not reading into your reply.

Anonymous
That is the purpose of message boards, to move information and learn new things.

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huriwaa

Unrecorded Date
MAD MAC,
Yes, to participate in competitive sports or non-competitive sports can be a violation of the laws of Islam---if and when a person (a man or a woman) breaks the law of Islam (in this case, the rule of dress)---even if this participation in sports prevents a person from doing the obligatory Islamic things---like the prayers and the observing of other Islamic conducts or behaviors---he or she is breaking the law of Islam. Again, what is good about displaying body parts of men and women, especially when the aim is to show off and entertain other people (not Allah)----while at the same time---breaking the law of Islam (lower your gaze and cover your body parts)?

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huriwaa

Unrecorded Date
I agree with MAD MAC that the purpose of this message boards is to move information and learn new things, but with that in mind, we hope that MAD MAC will at least enlighten himself first and read the Quran. We are not Muslim scholars; we can only point out what the Quran says. However, MAD MAC, in his Western thinking of what ISLAM is, gets the way of him understanding the basics of Islam-----that is why he is having hard time understanding of Islam as a comprehensive system influencing all aspects of life of a person (in his or her Worship and Moral Code of Islam). But we are happy to point out and get some veiw rewards by pointing out to him or any other non-Muslim (a gaal) who wants to learn Islam-----what the Quran says. But MAC MAC has to first understand the 101 lesson of Islam and that ISLAM consists of two key aspects: a set of beliefs i.e. the CREED, and a system of LAWS regulating person's actions emanating from the CREED.

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huriwaa

Unrecorded Date
Islamic lesson 101 for MAD MAC:

Allah said:
"I created the jinn and mankind only that they worship (obey) Me "[51 :56]

In Allah's Islamic Law, people are subject to the laws of Allah to regulate in all their affairs. All societies need laws to ensure a uprightness. Allah has given people the basis or the creed from which all their affairs emanate --ISLAM.

People are free to obey or disobey the orders and laws of Allah, but to ignore the orders is to ignore our responsibility in life. To lead a life apart from that given by Allah is to invite disobedience and sin. To sin or to err and then repent is acceptable in the sight of Allah, but to reject and deny the law is unacceptable in the sight of Allah. To deny Allah's law and to accept otherwise (other laws) is to invoke the wrath of Allah; to follow and acknowledge Allah's law is to invoke the pleasure of Allah. To deny the law and think you are not obligated to follow the law is more than sinning; it is a rejection of the law. to sin and repent is what insaan does; to deny the sin and reject the law is what kufri does.

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MAD MAC

Unrecorded Date
Huriwaa
I don't reject the existence of Allah. I believe that it is self-explanatory that nothing comes from nothing and thus creation is a miracle for which something must be responsible. For other reasons to I believe in God. I do not believe the Qur'an is the unadulterated word of Allah. I do not believe God has pubilshed a set of laws for us to live by. I also do not believe we were put here to worship him. There's more to it than that but we are far to small to understand it. In short, I don't think you'll find the answers to our exitence on this planet. Nor do I think it's important. I do believe there are two rules that you should live by: Treat others as you would want to be treated if you were in their shoes. Pray to God to give thanks, not only in your time of need. My rules are arbitrary and I don't expect anyone else to adopt them. I feel no need to convince others that my path is the right path. Learning more about other religions and cultures is a positive but it's not because I'm out to adopt one of them. I rejected Christianity long ago and am not likely to adopt something else.

The more I read the Qur'an the more narrow it becomes. It's also somewhat contradictory. Be humble but be proud that you're a Muslim. Treat people with respect but avoid unbelievers. God is merciful but will damn you to hell if you don't follow his rules.

Huriwaa I've read a lot of the Qur'an now. It's tone is way to vindictive to be the word of God. I believe it's been inspired by God but interpreted by men. Like all the rest of them.

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huriwa

Unrecorded Date
MAD MAC,
Although you have not shown any evidence that makes the Quran corruptible, you keep saying that you *believe* that the Quran is not the unadulterated word of Allah!

Muslims do believe that God has a set of laws for us to live by----we believe that there is a Day that is called--YOMATUL QIYAAMA (the Day of Judgement). For this reason, Allah has not left people to their own to do whatever they want---just to be born, live, and then die; rather, Allah has made people unlike the animals. If people were like the animals, there would not be such things called sins or wrong doings on part of people. Everyone would do what he or she wants without accountably. However, Allah has sent prophets and Messengers (Prophets with the divine law) to mankind to give people guidance in all of their affairs. The miracle given to our last prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was the last book of Allah, the Quran, the word of Allah.

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huriwaa

Unrecorded Date
MAD MAC,
The fact that you can not bring any evidence against the Quran or any contradictions which you claim the Quran has---shows that you are a lying kufur. You say that you do not believe we were put here to worship Allah, but we Muslims believe Allah's words---not yours and we Muslims do worship Him every day (at least 5 times a day) and recite His words while in worship: Praise be to Allah, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the worlds; Most Gracious, Most Merciful; Master of the *DAY OF JUDGMENT*; Thee do we *WORSHIP*, and Thine aid we seek. Show us the *straight way*, The way of those on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy Grace, those whose (portion) is not wrath, and who go not astray.

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huriwaa

Unrecorded Date
MAD MAC,
We Muslims become convinced that Allah is the one we WORSHIP and rely on Him (His Book)---not an unbeliever (a kufar) who has no logic. There is no contradictory about the Quran in these issues: I can be a humble person and be proud to be who I'm at the same time--that is not a contradictory point. I treat people with respect but if an unbeliever mistreats me, I'm not going to even avoid him; he is going to receive the same treatment and respect he gave me. There is no such thing as--turn the other cheek--in Islam--that is not a contradictory approuch. Allah is most Gentle and most Just to his creatures. To treat people (the good people and the bad people) the same way---to treat them is an injustice and not at all merciful thing---in fact, it is contradictory to logic.

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huriwa

Unrecorded Date
MAD MAC, the Quran is both guidance (laws) and mercy to the believers. Only the unbelievers like you think that the tone of the Quran is vindictive. People who are raised into believing Sata Clause, Easter Eggs and other folk tales--like god in three--think that Allah is going to give the good and the bad the same treatment.!

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Anonymous

Friday, June 30, 2000 - 09:35 pm
MAD MAC,
I don't know what kind of a muslim you are, but obviosly we all can tell what type of mentallity you have. First of all, one of your biggest mistake lies in stating that Saudi Arabia are "religious nuts". Would you be shocked if I tell you that the Saudi government is the most hypocritical regime in the world. In some cases, worst than even the kuffar themselves? What type of muslims are they, if they arrest somalian refugees and damp them back to their country, during a time of war. What type of muslims are they if they allow the American government to use their country as a base while fighting Iraq. Even if you argue Sadam is a dictator himself, weren't they contributing to the murder of thousands of innocent civilians. Those are two examples relating to their behaviors towards their fellow muslims. But in their daily lives, they drink, fornicate, rape people, have a growing number of homosexuals, and all this is happening in the most sacred land in the world! Allahu Akbar. Now you mad doc, you have to set your priorities straight. There are some man made laws, and divine laws, such as the ones you read in the Qur'an. If you choose to mislead yourself, that's fine, but don't use the internet to spread your ideologies. It might reach people even more clueless than you are.

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MAD MAC

Wednesday, August 09, 2000 - 04:50 am
Sorry comrades. I've been off of the net for a while and I avoided religious debate because it was wearing on poor Huriwaas nerves. And since I like him I thought I ought to give him some relief.

Huriwaa
Don't you think "lying Kufaar" is a little harsh. Wouldn't it suffice to say that I have a different perspective from you and leave it at that. You could even go as far as to say "Look, I think you're wrong. This is what the Qur'an says....." I've never lied to you. I may have said things that you consider incorrect - but that's not the same thing as deliberately deceiving (which is the definition of lying).

OK, let's move on. Anonymous, if you didn't pick up on this already I'm gaal. And I am not trying to spread any ideologies. I read the Qur'an, I pray to God, but my girlfriend maintains a Buhdist Shrine in the house (I'm not Buhdist - but I do subscribe to some principals of zen). I've chosen to establish my own set of beliefs, not follow what is written in the Qur'an, Bible, or any other book.

Now I didn't say I thought God would give everyone the same treatment. What I said was that we don't know what treatment (if any) we will receive upon death. Maybe God judges us or maybe not. I think if there is a heaven then the Mormons are closer to the accurrate picture when they say that it's as if your feet are dirty and you don't want to walk into someones house. So you stay outside. Also, they picture heavan as multi-layered. Maybe I don't enter one area but enter another. The fact is neither you nor I know what happens.

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MAD MAC

Monday, August 21, 2000 - 12:24 am
Well comrades, check this out. Somalia has seven representatives attending the olympics this year and one of them is a woman. And she is participating in a running event!!!! Wearing shorts and everything. She gets harrassed in Hamer sometimes by the Islamic nuts but she's participating!!!! I am praying hard that at least one of the athletes medal - although that's unlikely. They haven't had as many opportunities to seriously train. Still, Insha Allah, we will see the Somali flag raised at the Olympics. That in itself is a victory!!!!

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MAD MAC

Monday, August 21, 2000 - 10:46 pm
Sweetgirl, what's your take on this?

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