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     | Wednesday, September 06, 2000 - 07:09 am People say that Somalis are 100% Muslim. I saw a statistic that said 99.96%. That's 0.04% that is something else... more than likely Christian. Has anyone ever heard of a Somali Christian??
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| | Wednesday, September 06, 2000 - 10:55 am I haven't seen one yet albeit someone called ABRAHAM who visited here somalinet and wanted to know about islam. I don't mean to offend you but I think you sound kind of sympathetic to christians which is not wrong at all. What is your down to earth interest in chrisitianity if you are not a christian?. I am just curious.
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| | Wednesday, September 06, 2000 - 12:09 pm Assalaamu Calaykum Walaalahayga ISLAAMKA ahoow, MAGACA SOOMAALI waxaa macnayaasha lagu fasiro ka mid ah SOOMAALE, SAMAALE (oo macneheedu yahay WANAAGLE ama SAMAWADE)waxaa kaloo lagu macneeyaa MUSLIM. Sababtoo ah Walaal intaasoo CALAAMADOOD qofka laga helaa waa MUSLIM. Marka haddaad aragtaan QOF inala AF ah ama luuqadeena ku hadla kaasoo haddana sheeganaya KIRISHTAAN magacii SOOMAALI waa ka harayama wuu ka baxay waana AMXAAR waayo nimankaa deriskeena ah isku dad baynu ahayne waxaa labadaa magac ina kala siiyey ama qaar inaga midana ka dhigay SOOMAALI qaar kalena AMXAAR waa DIINTA. SOOMAALI = MUSLIM AMXAAR = KIRISHTAAN wassalaam Walaalkiin Islaam@usa.com
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| | Wednesday, September 06, 2000 - 12:24 pm Islam, imminka af Soomaaliga waan baranayaa. fadhlan af ingriiskii hadli. mahadsanid.
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| | Wednesday, September 06, 2000 - 04:14 pm Runta. You didn't answer my Question. It was simple and plainly put to you. Are you a christian?. Don't be afraid to say so if you are because it will help us avoid inconviniences and killing time figuring out where you are coming from. Are you promoting religious harmony and tolerance(this move has become unbearable now since it was abused and bruised by two former gaals in the forumss)?. Or as your username advertises you came to tell us(the muslim somalis) a truth that was clouded from us?. The suspence is thrilling Mr.Runta. What is up ?..
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| | Wednesday, September 06, 2000 - 07:08 pm Yes, I am a Christian and I just wanted to know if more were out there. You asked I told...no hiding. Actually, there are some... but didn't know if on SomaliNet there were Christians. You can be Somali and Christian. I also wanted to know the perceptions of whether Somalis think Somali Christians existed among Somalis here. Some delude themselves into thinking it is not possible. Some may know of Somali Christians.
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| | Wednesday, September 06, 2000 - 08:20 pm Runta. <Yes, I am a Christian and I just wanted to know if more were out there> Looking for soul mates huh..?. Let me ask you this question again; Why look for specific affiliation when being somali was enough for you?. Is it that you felt no connection whatsoever to somalis because of their being muslims?. Do you admit that religion plays more role in connecting people than blood kinship would play connecting them?. <You asked I told...no hiding> I don't mind...that is exactly what you should do..coming forth with your belief more honestly.. I wouldn't say I don't care, because you have been nice so far... <Actually, there are some... but didn't know if on SomaliNet there were Christians.> So, you guys look out for each other?. The obvious of course. I have seen some disbelievers(no other word to define the subjects) who didn't say what they really believed in... They were confused, dissatisfied with christianity would be my guess... No explanation was given by them.. except islam is bad..some were repulsive.. down right acuudubillah minkum... <I also wanted to know the perceptions of whether Somalis think Somali Christians existed among Somalis here.> A little info might do you something: There had been some missionaries in somalia, dating back 1900, and they were not successful. However, in the 1980s they started promising a good life in diaspora, and were selling christianity that way. Many collected the money and prayed in the mosques.. I don't think that yielded much of a result either... Now.. with the mass immigration of somalis.. still the churches distribute candies in somali communities to kids...and some even translated the bible in tapes...giving out games to kids who don't understand what god is.. and asking them to pray to jesus..HOW WICKED THOSE MISSIONARIES CAN BE..?. It buffles me to the extent they go misleading people from the worship of the creator to the worship of a simple man.. who ate, cried, feared, travelled on foot..slept.. etc etc.. Anyway...I have yet to see somali christian.. except someone like you and others who rarely come here... I am proud to say..somalis are destined to be muslims inshallah... The struggle of staying islam will continue forever... <Some delude themselves into thinking it is not possible. Some may know of Somali Christians. > Nobody bothers keeping truck of them(somali gaals) and if they exist they are individuals like you who announce their kufr(disbelieve)... IT IS RARE, and I think someone will or might show up here and leave his/her e-mail for you to establish a contact.. NO one deludes to nothing. It is irrelavant and unworthy for somalis to bother who chooses his/her god according to situations.. and environment.. I don't think they should. It is not that important yet. Goodluck.
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| | Wednesday, September 06, 2000 - 08:21 pm Did you convert to christianitiy or you were born as a christian?
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| | Wednesday, September 06, 2000 - 11:15 pm The total number I heard when I was in Hamer in 93 was 5,000. Mostly Christian and a few animist. The animist were linguistly Soomal but of Bantu stock. I have to admit I'm highly suspct about the numbers - could be more or less, I don't think there's an accurate count. In all of my travels I have met only one Somali family that was Christian (man-wife-two kids). This family lived in Medina and were very much persecuted. They were from the Abgal clan. Our chaplain was trying to help them move to the States because he feared they would be eventually killed. I don't know how that ended.
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| | Wednesday, September 06, 2000 - 11:18 pm Hie there : I have actally met two Somali christian women when I was small : their names were Madelaine and Catherine. One was actally the wife of the Ambassador of Djibouti in Nairobi in the years 85-86. They are orphans and were raised by missionaries. I am not actually sure if they are Djiboutis or Somalis. Then when I was around 16, I met a Djibouti christian woman who was married to a Somali speaking French, but that lady was born christian cause it was her mother that converted to christianity. Again, in 1998, I went to a Somali conference in Montreal. There was a Djibouti guy who took the microphone, and admitted to everyone that he was a christian and asked if it posed a problem in him being Somali or not. Cheikhs, elders, and intellectuals all spoke successively and said that he is indeed a Somali. So in my life I've met 4 christian Somalis (to be accurate Djiboutis) who are christians. I think our country has the best percentage of muslims in the whole world after Saudi Arabia. One more thing about christianity. I don't want to criticize it, and I respect it, because our prophet Muhammad(sas) has told us to respect it. But It is a fact that Issa (as) told his followers to praise Allah. Issa was a Jew(and a muslim) and asked his followers to follow the path of Allah (swt). He didn't get much followers, and other Jews felt he was a threat to them. You all know the rest... What is important is that Issa (as) never told anyone to worship him. He never said that he was a God (and I dare any christian to prove it by giving me citations in the Injil(Gospel)), he never said that he was the Son of Allah and he never said that he was the holy ghost. It is one of his followers (Mark) that modified and changed the version of Issa (as) by the year 300, so that it could have originality from the Jews and more followers. Many of Issa's followers refused to see Issa as a God, but when emperor Constantine became Christian by Marc's theories and that Christianity (as Marc's version) became a state religion and that Rome became the capital of Christianity, Marc's version was kept, and other versions eliminated. That is why Christians are gonna go to Juhanam for not believing in God but in a person, and for being polytheists (3 Gods), and for worshipping idols, and for drinking alcohol, and for eating pork and constantly modifying the word of God (by altering the Bible). Mussa (as), Ibrahim (as) and all the prophets never ate pork nor did they drink wine. Christians have modified the Bible so that it could suit them. In fact there are 18 different Bible versions in 800 languages, which the narrator is someone other than God or the prophets. You don't believe me ? Read "Quran or the Bible, which is the word of God ? "by Shaykh Ahmad Deedat You don't believe me ? Read Surat Nisaa : "Jesus the Son of Mary, was no more than Allah's apostle" (Surah 4:171). Surat Maryam : "Those who say 'The Lord of Mercy has begotten a son,' preach a monstrous falsehood (19:8892). Surat Al Ma'idah: "Unbelievers are those that say: 'God is the Messiah, the son of Mary' . . . He that worships other gods besides Allah, Allah will deny him paradise" (Surah 5:72,73). Also 5:116. Surat Al-Tauba: "The Jews say Ezra is the son of God, while the Christians say the Messiah is the son of God. Such are their assertions, by which they imitate the infidels of old. Allah's curse be on them! How perverse they are! They make . . .the Messiah, the son of Mary, Lord besides Allah; though they were ordered to serve one God only . . . (Surah 9:30-31). You still don't believe me ? Read the Injil, which is the true word of Issa (as) and the Bible is not.If you see in the Injil, a single reference of Jesus (as) saying himself that he is God and asking people to worship him, then please tell me the exact page. But don't cite me the Bible, cause even I can even create my own version and sell it. As a matter of fact, there is no arabic word for Bible, but there is one for the Torah, and one for the Gospel. This says everything about it's importance.
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| | Thursday, September 07, 2000 - 12:20 am The total number mentioned by Mad may include the villages built by the missionary guy killed in mogadishu. He built whole villages that looked alike(in LEGO district), and tried to convert people through the proccess. A house with one milking cow, meant worshipping jesus peace be upon him. He knew somali language eloquently (as I heard), intermingled with people, often approaching youngesters in SHABEELLE who were crazy about the west. The guy had the whole city shaken up. I saw his picture when he was killed in news outlet translated in three languages. It had all the details and what he did in somalia. It mainly alluded to humanitarian mission that he was doing. I was so happy that I cried when he was killed(May Allah grant forgiveness and his mercy the man who saved so many weak muslims from the trial and fitnah of polytheism). I think, situations like these call for vigil and educating the undereducated in islam. Also governemnts should be pressurized to keep in mind the state of the country and the uniformity of the culture to avoid future proplems that arise from religious strife like Lebanon and other devided countries through religious lines. I am not proposing to do this violently, although I wouldn't mind if neseccity calls for it, but rather to prevent it from happening by teaching the people of all ages THE IMPORTANCE OF MONOTHEISM and THE DESTRUCTION OF POLYTHEISM and different conflicting religions in our country. I can't say enough about this AND I don't care who might feel disheartened about my passionate fear of the somali culture which is islam. If we don't go out there and do the service to our future generations, I don't think someone else will do it for us. We have to protect our unique identity and culture by way of being aware the wolve in the sheep's clothing.
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| | Thursday, September 07, 2000 - 03:02 am THERE IS NO ROOM FOR AMHAARO IN SOMALIA SOMALI MEANS SAMAALE WHICH MEANS MUSLIM SOMALI=MUSLIM AMXAAR=CRISTIAN DID YOU UNDERSTAND
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| | Thursday, September 07, 2000 - 03:40 am Muslim Here's you Qur'anic message for the day. Surah 60:8. "Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who Fight you not for your faith, Nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: For Allah loveth those who are Just." Surah 5:69 "Those who believe in the Qur'an, Those who follow the Jewish scriptures, And the Sabians and the Christians - Any who believe in Allah And the Last Day, And work righteousness- On them shall be no fear, Nor shall they grieve." Surah 5:82 "Strongest among men in enmity to the believers wilt thou find the Jews and the Pagans; And nearest among them in love to the Believers wilt thou find thos who say 'We are christians': Because amongst these are Men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant." You see, the Qur'an's message is subject to interpretation if read at face value. Some Surahs indicate you should avoid association with Christians, others indicate that you should associate. Therefore I think we should look at the Prophet Mohameds example. And what did he do with Christians in his midst? Did he banish them? Dod he feed them to the Lions (like the Romans were so fond of)? Did he cheat them or steal their women? Did he forcibly convert them? No. He did none of these things. He instructed the faithful to treat those of other faiths with dignity and respect in all things so long as those communities reciprocated. There were both Jewish and Christian communities in what is not Saudi Arabia until the Wahabis took over and chose to ignore the messages in the Qur'an they didn't like. Islam is tolerance and I don't see much of that in your message. Lastly, Christianity is not polytheistic. You guys have warped the trinity into something it is not. I don't even believe in the trinity, but I know it is not a symbol of polytheism. Christians worship the same God as you - the God of Abraham.
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| | Thursday, September 07, 2000 - 03:42 am I want to say all our somali-muslim brothers and sisters,please refrain to comment the articles WRITING BY those kufaaris who are VISITING THIS SITE. PLEAS BRO AND SIS DON'T REPLY THE ARTICLS WRITING BY THOSE KUFAARIS AND DON'T HELP THEM TO SPREAD THIER GERMS HER. WALAALAYAAL GAALADA AFKA KA XIDHA QOFKII RABA IN UU WAX KA QANCIYOOW HA TAGO WEB-PAGE YADOODA EE WALAALAYAALOOW NEFIS U DIIDA GAALADA QUDHUNKA AH KANA FOGEEYA NIJAAS TOODA FORUMKEENA. GUUL MUSLIM BAA LEH GAAL GUU DARUU LEEYAHAY. WASALAAMU CALAYKUM.
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| | Thursday, September 07, 2000 - 06:00 am Hi all, To answer your question...my father is Somali and my mother is American. So I had the opportunity unlike most Somalis to grow up learing about Islam and Christianity. Neither my father or mother were very religious. My mother's parents were VERY religious and they taught me about Christianity, while my father's next wife was VERY religious too and taught me Islam... suras, how to pray, how Muslims do things,etc. I wasn't really Christian or Muslim I just did whatever I was asked to do since I was so young. Eventually, I had to decide. I couldn't be both. After a lot of thought I decided to be Christian. I'm not your average Christian either. Actually most folks that claim to be Christian really aren't. It doesn't take much to give yourself a label. It does take a lot to live the life. Whatever I chose, I knew that I had to be "hardcore" with it. This wasn't just some faith that was handed down to me... they're Christian, so I'm Christian, etc. It was something I had to really believe in over the other religion I was taught as well. When a Somali says that I am being closed minded I ask them if they grew up in a Christian and Muslim family at the same time. If they haven't then they have no room to talk.
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| | Thursday, September 07, 2000 - 06:07 am Oh yes... and does that mean that I am considered an apostate? worthy of death?
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| | Thursday, September 07, 2000 - 06:07 am "I wasn't really Christian or Muslim I just did whatever I was asked to do since I was so young. Eventually, I had to decide. I couldn't be both." i hope you didn't flip a coin. i mean can you tell us the difference between islam and christianity that made you decide to choose one over the other? is jesus your god and savior and how come?
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| | Thursday, September 07, 2000 - 06:15 am "Oh yes... and does that mean that I am considered an apostate? worthy of death?" runta, the truth is-- if i were you, as afraid as you are, i would not mention being a christian in somalia. imagine what can happen to a homosexual person coming out of the closet in somalia. :-) accidently, there was a reason you didn't at first declare yourself to be a christian---until you were quizzed about your religon by formerguest.
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| | Thursday, September 07, 2000 - 07:01 am Again I want to tell all our brothers and sisters that there is a some kufaar(missioneri) elements who visit this SITE and claim "that they are somalian,and they grow up in america my mother is christian......) and so on.they just want to tell us that there is many somalian who prefer christianity in islam,and it is normal some one who are somalian and born muslim to change or choose what ever religion he/she want. BRO AND SIS AGAIN BE CAREFULL THE TACTICS OF THE KUFAAR AND THE MISSIONERIES AND AS I TOLD YOU THE BEST WAY TO FIGHT IS TO SHUT UP AND NOT TO READ OR COMMENT THEIR ARTICLES OTHER WISE THEIR DEVIL THING WILL EFFECT YOU SOME WAY OR ANOTHER. WASALAAMU CALAYKUM.
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| | Thursday, September 07, 2000 - 07:15 am Oh great MUSLIM 1 No I actually am Somali. I'm not a missionary. I don't like lying. asad, Of course I didn't just flip a coin. It was a decision made with a lot of anguish and tears. My Muslim family hated it, but I think that they got over it. They hope that I will be Muslim some day. I don't like to put down other people's religion to their face. I feel like the time that I put down Islam I can talk about Christianity instead. Before I go into more detail about my decision could you please answer me a few questions asad. Have you ever told a lie? If so what does that make you? Have you ever stole something (maybe borrow and never bring back)? If so what does that make you? Honestly, what do you think about most during the day? What do you think about the 10 commandments? Just out of curiosity... does me being a Christian make me an apostate? You didn't really answer that. I actually am going somewhere with these questions. Please be patient and answer them for me.
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| | Thursday, September 07, 2000 - 07:50 am "asad, Of course I didn't just flip a coin. It was a decision made with a lot of anguish and tears." i'm glad that you didn't flip a coin, just like that. i just wanted you to tell us what made you decide to become a christian. "My Muslim family hated it, but I think that they got over it. They hope that I will be Muslim some day." because they love you. they want you to be save from hell. they know that jesus will not save you. they know that jesus is not your savoir. Allah is your savoir and your only Lord. "I feel like the time that I put down Islam I can talk about Christianity instead." yes, tell us your religion and then we can talk about the difference between the two religions. i would love to talk to you about your christiantiy too. "Before I go into more detail about my decision could you please answer me a few questions asad." Okay. "Have you ever told a lie? yes, i did tell lies many many time. i would be lying to you know that if i tell you i did not tell a lie. and i'm sure you told lies too, right? "If so what does that make you? very bad. "Have you ever stole something (maybe borrow and never bring back)? yes. i took few shillings from my father's pants while he was sleeping when i was ten. have you ever stolen anything? runta sheek, okay. "If so what does that make you?" very bad. "Honestly, what do you think about most during the day?" different things. maybe my work. also, besides when i'm performing my five times salaat, i think of Allah too. "What do you think about the 10 commandments?" they are in the Qura'n too. i love them. the first commandment is the most important one. if one breaks it, he will go to hell. if you break other commandments you committed sin which maybe forgivable. but if you break the first commandment---"thou shall not tall other gods besides God, the one". i understand, as a christan, you have your god and lord jesus christ, right, runta? "Just out of curiosity... does me being a Christian make me an apostate? You didn't really answer that" if you were a muslim and then became a christian, then you are an apostate. "I actually am going somewhere with these questions. Please be patient and answer them for me" take your time. i hope you tell what you believe so we can learn from you. tell us what you think about jesus, the son of mary--is he your lord and savoir?
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| | Thursday, September 07, 2000 - 08:07 am Hi Asad, I'm so glad that you acknowledge the 10 commandments. Where I was going was that if you tell a lie that makes you a "liar". If you steal that makes you a "thief". The first commandment is to have no other Gods... well these days many people don't have idols that they go home and bow down to... at least in the West. But you don't have to worship something to place something before God... that is have another "god" before him. Do you think about God THE MOST? If not than you have something you esteem more than God...you have a god before Him. That's the FIRST COMMANDMENT. Answer me this if you stand before a righteous just God on judgement day... will you be guilty or innocent? The law of God is perfect and he who breaks one point is guilty of it ALL. Are you GUILTY or INNOCENT?
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| | Thursday, September 07, 2000 - 08:14 am runta, not all sins are equal. one sin that is unforgivable is the sin of taking another god besides Allah which you commit all the times since you are a christian. you have jesus as your lord and savoir besides Allah, is that right? if i did steal someting or or told a lie makes me a thief and a liar, but if i take jesus as my god or lord besides Allah, i become a kufaar, mushrik. Allah will forgive all sins, except the sin of kufur. kufur is one you reject him and deny his Words, His Oneness.
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| | Thursday, September 07, 2000 - 08:19 am i mean kufur is rejection of Allah's Oneness. Mushrik is one who takes another god beside Allah. you do commit both sins, don't you, runta? again, is jesus, the son of mary, your lord and savoir, runta?
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| | Thursday, September 07, 2000 - 08:42 am Hey you didn't answer asad... guilty or innocent?
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| | Thursday, September 07, 2000 - 08:52 am said i'm guilty of committing sin. but you didn't answer if you are guilt of committing shirk and kufur. i ask you many times this question, but you refused to answer: is jesus christ, the son of mary, your lord and savoir, and why, runta?
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| | Thursday, September 07, 2000 - 09:22 am The whole point behind asking those questions was to gauge your sin consciousness. It seems that many people for some reason see sin in their lives so lightly..."Oh God will forgive me... it's ok... as long as I don't do this sin or that" People don't live with a fear of their eternal destiny... everyone thinks that they have a good shot of getting into heaven. God is a holy and righteous God. Sin cannot exist in His presence. Do you want a roach in your house? Even if it is a "small" roach. You don't want a disgusting roach in your house whether large or small. God doesn't want sin in His house. You and everyone else has done enough sin to damn us to hell forever. We didn't do one sin... we did many. We have intentionally disobeyed God. If God is just how can I escape punishment? How could let me off the hook and be merciful, but He wouldn't be just. He could damn me to hell, but he wouldn't be merciful. Asad, one of the greatest realizations you can come to is that you are not a good person... no one is. We did nothing to deserve heaven. We derserve hell. Yet God is merciful and just at the same time... how can he fulfill both? We broke the law... we deserve to be condemned. How can you escape hell fire asad or anyone for that matter? Asad... because there are so many misconceptions about Christianity from Muslims and vice versa... I don't like to answer such a misunderstood question of yours without working my way to it... I could just give you an answer and the misconceptions would still exist. Or I can challenge the misconceptions then give an answer. Permit me this. Thank you, asad.
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| | Thursday, September 07, 2000 - 09:47 am "The whole point behind asking those questions was to gauge your sin consciousness. It seems that many people for some reason see sin in their lives so lightly..."Oh God will forgive me... it's ok... as long as I don't do this sin or that" runta, the fact is that, no one is sin free. you and i are sinners. everyone commits sin. not all sins are the same, that is what you should understand. when i commit sin, i feel bad. the Qur'an and hadeeth say that Allah is most forgiven and most merciful. if no one committed a sin (which is imposible), Allah will create other people who will commit sin and ask forgiveness in order Allah's quility may come to manifest. this does not mean we should commit sin intentionally. however, when one commits the biggest sin of it all, the sin of kufur, one has no hope from Allah, except to return to his Lord and give up his disbelieve in the ONENESS of him. "Thou shall not take another god besides the ONE God". In the day of judgement, Allah will forgive a believer who committed sins or punish him or her for a while, but a disbeliever of the ONENESS of Allah, will never get forgivness. One who believes that jesus or any other creation is equal to Allah and dies in this state, will not get to heaven. "Asad, one of the greatest realizations you can come to is that you are not a good person... no one is". yes, i know. i know that only Allah is good, i believe jesus said that. he said "there is only one who is good and that is God" while pointing his fingers upto the sky when a jew addressed and called him "a good lord". jesus responded. don't call me that. only God who is above is good. "We did nothing to deserve heaven. We derserve hell. Yet God is merciful and just at the same time... how can he fulfill both? We broke the law... we deserve to be condemned. How can you escape hell fire asad or anyone for that matter?" according to your bible, when that guy asked jesus how he can reach salvation and get to heaven, jesus responed and said "follow the commandment". jesus didn't say, accept me as your savoir because i will die for your sins. according to the christians, all you have to do to go to heaven is to believe that jesus christ, the son of mary, died for your sin. but the fact is that, the mercy of God is not with jesus's blood. the mercy of God is with God, only. He is the only one who forgives sins, no one else can or will. "Asad... because there are so many misconceptions about Christianity from Muslims and vice versa..." i'm just asking you what you believe. is that so hard for you to give answer? "I don't like to answer such a misunderstood question of yours without working my way to it..." work with me, then and tell us what you think i misunderstood about your belief. "I could just give you an answer and the misconceptions would still exist." try with me. after all, we are here to learn from each other. "Or I can challenge the misconceptions then give an answer.Permit me this. " be my guest, but i understand why are you reluctant to give answer. it is like you are ashmed of your belief. is jesus christ, the son of mary, your lord and savoir? is this hard question? "Thank you, asad." you're welcome.
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| | Thursday, September 07, 2000 - 09:48 am runta My mother was a muslim but my father a christian i read both the bible and the quran but even b4 i read the quran i knew that the bible was false....i mean how can there be so many different versions (while a piece of the quran was dung up which had been buried for over 300yrs an it was found to be the same words as from the Quran today) if it is one religion and i mean in none of the Bibles i read did it say that Jesus is god but then u have so many ppl believe he is... The Quran tells us how a womans egg becomes fertilzed by the mans sperm, it has been there for over 600yrs while scientists have only discovered it some odd 50yrs ago. As well as the fact that Jesus cannot have been burn on the 25th of December since his mother Maryum gave him a date after he was born while in dates only grow in the summer....there are a lot of this in the bible that contradict each other....i mean Runta before u made ur decision did u read both the Bible and the Quran
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| | Thursday, September 07, 2000 - 09:59 am "My mother was a muslim but my father a christian i read both the bible and the quran but even b4 i read the quran i knew that the bible was false"habiba, forgive me if i ask you this question" you said your mother was a muslim. is she still a muslim? how about your father--did he convert to islam? did your muslim mother know that she could not marry a christian man?
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| | Thursday, September 07, 2000 - 10:11 am RUNTA(LIAR). Cut short the chase and to the point; Your message: Since we all sin we need jesus peace be upon him for salvation right?. Is that what you are getting at?. Seek and hide is the not the kind of game you play with us. Start with the core message of christianity. JESUS WAS CRUCIFIED BECAUSE WE SINNED SO MUCH RIGHT.? The only son of god was slaughtered like a sheep on the cross for your irresponsibility right?. He went to heaven to prepare a house for you right.? So it seems we should worship him right.? Jesus is the same as god and one in all together with the holy spirit right.? What else..hummm... let me think a little bit. Start with those points okey. No need to circulate around with so much to do in life.
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| | Thursday, September 07, 2000 - 10:28 am my mother is a so called muslim just like my father in name only but do not practice the religion properly
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| | Thursday, September 07, 2000 - 10:35 am thank, habiba. but i'm glad that you are a muslim in name and practice. hope you marry a muslim man.
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| | Thursday, September 07, 2000 - 10:39 am Habiba, FYI-- the dead sea scrolls did the same thing for the Bible... they found that the dead sea scrolls confirmed the manuscripts that we use to translate the Bible today. FYI -- the Bible never gives Dec 25th as the date of Jesus birth or any other date. Dec. 25th is merely tradition. It's not in the Bible. Yes... I had read in the Bible and Qu'raan.
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| | Thursday, September 07, 2000 - 10:41 am Such violence formerguest..tsk tsk
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| | Thursday, September 07, 2000 - 10:41 am Asad--- Looks to me you are making a pass at Habiiba. .@LOL
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| | Thursday, September 07, 2000 - 10:56 am RUNTA. <To answer your question...my father is Somali and my mother is American. So I had the opportunity unlike most Somalis to grow up learing about Islam and Christianity.> I could do that to confuse people with the reality of the situation. Like, Okey I was muslim first, then become dissatisfied with it , became a christian and want to propagate it. Ah..what a big deal. In short, Who cares if your father was a jew or say the dignitary of the other planet. You might also know if your father's wife taught you about islam in complete, you would have learnt the christian in belief IN THE QURAN FULLY. A learned muslim in islam knows what your belief is. IT PROVES THAT YOU WERE NEVER TAUGHT ANYTHING ISLAMIC. That is why I called you A LIAR the other time. <When a Somali says that I am being closed minded I ask them if they grew up in a Christian and Muslim family at the same time. If they haven't then they have no room to talk. > If you are not close minded yourself, you would have answered to ASAD when he asked you about your beliefs in jesus. DO YOU TAKE HIM AS YOUR GOD CO-EQUAL TO ALLAH?. DON'T YOU ASK HIM FORGIVENESS WHEN YOU SIN?. DON'T YOU EXPECT HE WILL TAKE YOU TO HEAEVEN WAITING FOR YOU?. Answer that. Why do you scape from the reality of your situation and polytheistic beliefs you harbour. You either do or don't, so say it. <I feel like the time that I put down Islam I can talk about Christianity instead. > JUST GREAT!. why not start with explaining the concept of trinity and three gods which become one. <Answer me this if you stand before a righteous just God on judgement day... will you be guilty or innocent?> We know what saves us from Allah in the day of judgement. Believe in him alone is the top of the order not associating with him JESUS or anybody else. "6.151 Say: "Come, I will rehearse what Allah had (really) prohibited you from": Join not anything with Him; be good to your parents; kill not your children on a plea of want;- We provide sustenance for you and for them;- come not near to indecent deeds. Whether open or secret; take not life, which Allah had made sacred, except by way of justice and law: thus does He command you, that you may learn wisdom >. <"16.90 Allah commands justice, the doing of good, and given to kith and kin, and He forbids all indecent deeds, and evil and rebellion: He instructs you, that you may receive admonition." <23.102 Then those whose balance (of good deeds) is heavy,- they will be successful: >. the concept of christianity that ALL SINNED no matter(the original sin) is just plain untruth and illogic. No one is guilty of what he hasn't done period. THE COMMON SENSE. A child is not born with sin nor does the baby is dark with it. The individual is accountable when he is an adult able to reason in islam.
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| | Thursday, September 07, 2000 - 10:57 am Asad, "according to your bible, when that guy asked jesus how he can reach salvation and get to heaven, jesus responed and said "follow the commandment". jesus didn't say, accept me as your savoir because i will die for your sins. according to the christians, all you have to do to go to heaven is to believe that jesus christ, the son of mary, died for your sin." Yes, you got that from Mark 10. Here's what Jesus also said in that dialogue...Mark 10:21 "21Then Jesus, looking at him, loved him, and said to him, "One thing you lack: Go your way, sell whatever you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, take up the cross, and follow Me." ...Not God, huhn? Read this please...I don't think Muslims (who in general don't read the Bible think that this is here.) John 10:27-38 (jesus speaking) 27My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand. 30 I and My Father are one." Renewed Efforts to Stone Jesus 31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him. 32Jesus answered them, "Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?" 33The Jews answered Him, saying, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God." 34Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your law, "I said, "You are gods"'? 35If He called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken), 36do you say of Him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, "You are blaspheming,' because I said, "I am the Son of God'? 37If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me; 38but if I do, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, that you may know and believe that the Father is in Me, and I in Him." Oh and formerguest... I was giving background not side stepping. asad...Jesus satisfies the law of justice and mercy. Jesus died for our sins... taking our punishment VOLUNTARILY in our place (justice of God) and we are forgiven and given eternal life (God's mercy) A debt had to be paid and Jesus paid it for us... being God. (that is humans have a human spirit within us and Jesus had the spirit of the living God instead residing within Him.) Sounds weird, huhn? Yeah, I can name many things about God that we can't understand yet we accept it since God can do all things... can he not. asad?
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| | Thursday, September 07, 2000 - 10:57 am "FYI-- the dead sea scrolls did the same thing for the Bible... they found that the dead sea scrolls confirmed the manuscripts that we use to translate the Bible today." if what is found the in dead scrolls confirms to be the same bible the christians have today, then God and jesus had nothing to with the manuscripts. jesus never contradicted himself; the bible has many contradictions. and God is not the author of confusion either, right, runta? anonymous, i didn't make a pass at her. i don't even know if she is available.
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| | Thursday, September 07, 2000 - 11:02 am RUNTA. Address the questions put to you. Somalinet is not an institution built for cheap propaganda.
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| | Thursday, September 07, 2000 - 11:16 am runta, i'm glad that you started to qoute some bible verses for us. let's benefit these bible verses and what they mean to the muslims and christians. Question No.1 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Jesus said: "I and the Father are one" (Jn.10:30), therefore, is not Jesus the same, or, "co-equal" in status with his Father? Answer No.1 ^^^^^^^^^^^ In Greek, `heis' means `one' numerically (masc.) `hen' means `one' in unity or essence (neut.) Here the word used by John is `hen' and not `heis'. The marginal notes in New American Standard Bible (NASB) reads; one - (Lit.neuter) a unity, or, one essence. If one wishes to argue that the word `hen' supports their claim for Jesus being "co-equal" in status with his Father, please invite his/her attention to the following verse: Jesus said: "And the glory which Thou hast given me, I have given to them (disciples); that they may be one, just as we are one." (John 17:22). If he/she was to consider/regard/believe the Father and Jesus Christ to be "one" meaning "co-equal" in status on the basis of John 10:30, then that person should also be prepared to consider/regard/believe "them" - the disciples of Jesus, to be "co-equal" in status with the Father and Jesus ("just as we are one") in John 17:22. I have yet to find a person that would be prepared to make the disciples (students) "co-equal" in status with the Father or Jesus. The unity and accord was of the authorized divine message that originated from the Father, received by Jesus and finally passed on to the disciples. Jesus admitted having accomplished the work which the Father had given him to do. (Jn.17:4) Hot Tip: (precise and pertinent) ^^^^^^^^ Jesus said: "I go to the Father; for the Father is greater than I." (Jn.14:28). This verse unequivocally refutes the claim by any one for Jesus being "co-equal" in status with his Father. ********************************************************************* -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Question No.2 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Jesus said: "I am the way, ...no one comes to the Father, but through me." (Jn.14:6), therefore, is not the Salvation through Jesus, ALONE? Answer No.2 ^^^^^^^^^^^ Before Jesus spoke these words, he said; "In my Father's house are many mansions (dwelling places); if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a mansion (a dwelling place) for you." (John 14:2). ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ The above explicit statement confirms that Jesus was going to prepare "a" mansion and not "all" the mansions in "my Father's house". Obviously, the prophets that came before him and the one to come after, were to prepare the other mansions for their respective followers. The prophet that came after Jesus had evidently shown the current "way" to a modern mansion in the kingdom of heaven. Besides; the verse clearly states; Jesus was the "WAY" to a mansion. It is a folly to believe that Jesus (or any prophet) was the "DESTINATION". Jesus said; "I am the door" to find the pasture. (Jn.10:9). A sheep that walks through the "door" will find the pasture. A sheep that circles around the "door" will never find the pasture. One who crosses over the "way" will reach the mansion. Anyone that stops on the "way" and believes the "way" to be the end of his/her journey, will be out in the open without any shelter and a roof. Hot Tip: (precise and pertinent) ^^^^^^^^ Jesus said; "Not every one that says to me; `Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven; but he who does the will of my Father, who is in heaven." (Mt.7:21). ****************************************************************** -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Question No.3 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Jesus said: "He who has seen me has seen the Father" (Jn.14:9), does this not prove that Jesus Christ and his Father were one and the same? Answer No.3 ^^^^^^^^^^^ One day to prove a point and settle an argument, Jesus picked up a child and said to his disciples; "Whoever receives this child in my name receives me; and whoever receives me receives Him who sent me;" (Luke 9:48). Jesus said; "He who believes in me does not believe in me, but in Him who sent me." (John 12:44) "He who hates me hates my Father also. ...but now they have both seen and hated me and my Father as well." (John 15:23-24) "And this is eternal life, that they may know Thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom Thou hast sent." (John 17:3). The call of sincerity demands that if believing in the Truth is the honest intention then one could only pass an ethical judgement after reflecting upon all the relevant texts. John 17:3 (quoted above), if read with the following verse clears the air. Hot Tip: (precise and pertinent) ^^^^^^^^ Jesus said; "Truly, truly, I say to you, a slave is not greater than his master; neither one who is sent greater than the one who sent him." (John 13:16). During his ministry, Jesus repeatedly said he was sent by his Father. *********************************************************** -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Question No.4 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ The Bible; "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life." (John 3:16); should you not believe in Jesus to have eternal life? Answer No.4 ^^^^^^^^^^^ Of course, we believe in Jesus for what he was and we do not believe in what he was not. We Muslims believe Jesus was a Messiah; "Spirit from God"; "Word of God"; the righteous Prophet as well as Messenger of God and the son of Virgin Mary. But, we do not believe Jesus was "the begotten son of God." The truth of the matter is apostle John never ever wrote; Jesus was "the begotten" son of God. Please obtain a copy of the `Gideon Bible' from a Hotel or Motel near you. It is distributed free since 1899, all over the world, by The Gideon Society. In the beginning of this famous Bible, John 3:16 is translated in 26 popular world languages. You may be amazed to discover that in the English translation, the editors have used the traditionally accepted term "His only begotten son." Whereas, in several other languages the editors have used the term "His unique son" or "His one of a kind son." In 1992, when I discovered this textual variations, I wrote letters to various universities in North America requesting them to confirm the original Greek term used by John. Below is a copy of the response received from The George Washington University:- John 3:16 and John 1:18 each have the word `monogenes' in Greek. This word ordinarily means "of a single kind". As a result, "unique" is a good translation. The reason you sometimes find a translation that renders the word as "only begotten" has to do with an ancient heresy within the church. In response to the Arian claim that Jesus was made but not begotten, Jerome (4th century) translated the Greek term `monogenes' into Latin as `unigenitus' ("only begotten"). Paul B. Duff, 22 April, 1992. Professor Duff's response was based upon `Anchor Bible', volume 29, page 13-14. The Greek term for "begotten" is `gennao' as found in Mt.1:2, which John did not use. Hot Tip: (precise and pertinent) ^^^^^^^^ Jesus said to Mary; "...go to my brethren, and say to them, I ascend to my Father and your Father..." (John 20:17). This verse demonstrates that the usage of term `Father' was purely metaphorical. As for Jesus being a "unique son", he, unlike us, was created without a physical Father. *********************************************************** -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Question No.5 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Jesus said: "Truly, truly. I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." (John 3:3); I am a "born again" Christian, are you a "born again" Muslim? Answer No.5 ^^^^^^^^^^^ The truth of the matter is apostle John did not use the phrase "born again". The Greek text reveals, the phrase used by John is "born from above". The Greek word used by John is `anothen' (`ano' + `then'). `ano' means `above' and the suffix `then' denotes `from'. Hence, what Jesus said was "unless one is born from above, he cannot see the kingdom of God." And, that sounds logical. Since none of the living creature is "born from above", no one can see the kingdom heaven during his life time. The concept of being "born again" to see the kingdom of heaven is an innovation to instill the concept of Baptism. The same word `anothen' appears in the same Gospel and in the same chapter in verse 31. Here the editors have translated the word as "from above" and not "again". This further supports the logic of Jesus having said; "born from above". To enter the Kingdom of Heaven one has to keep the Commandments. God's distinguished Command known as the `Covenant of Circumcision' (physically, "in the flesh of your ####") was an everlasting Covenant (Compact,Treaty) between God and man. See Genesis 17:10-14. Can an everlasting Treaty be abrogated or revoked unilaterally? Did Jesus abrogate it? No. Jesus was circumcised in the flesh (Luke 2:21). We, Muslim males, are circumcised. Are the male Christians circumcised in the "flesh of their foreskins"? If not, please read the following verse:- Hot Tip: ^^^^^^^^ Jesus said; "Whoever then annuls (discards) one of the least of these commandments, and so teaches others, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." (Matt. 5:19). ************************************************************** -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Question No.6 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Jesus said; "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit," (Matthew 28:19); does this not prove that the `Doctrine of Trinity' and its present day formula was communicated and promulgated by Jesus Christ himself? Answer No.6 ^^^^^^^^^^^ With all due respect, we tend to disagree in view of the following compelling evidences:- 1. `Peake's Commentary on the Bible' published since 1919, is universally welcomed and considered to be the standard reference book for the students of the Bible. Commenting on the above verse it records; "This mission is described in the language of the church and most commentators doubt that the trinitarian formula was original at this point in Mt.'s Gospel, since the NT elsewhere does not know of such a formula and describes baptism as being performed in the name of the Lord Jesus (e.g. Ac. 2:38, 8:16, etc.)." 2. Tom Harpur, author of several bestsellers and a former professor of New Testament, writes in his book `For Christ's Sake'; "All but the most conservative of scholars agree that at least the latter part of this command was inserted later. The formula occurs nowhere else in the New Testament, and we know from the only evidence available (the rest of the New Testament) that the earliest Church did not baptise people using these words - baptism was "into" or "in" the name of Jesus alone." 3. The above command (authentic or otherwise) does not indicate that the three names mentioned in the formula are or were, "co- equal" in their status, as well as, were "co-eternal" in the time frame, to conform with the acknowledged `Doctrine of Trinity'. 4. If the Father and His Son were both in "existence" from the Day One, and no one was, a micro second before or after, and, no one was "greater or lesser" in status, than why is one called the Father and the other His begotten Son? 5. Did the act of "Begetting" take place? If YES, where was the "Begotten Son" before the act? If NO, why call him the "Begotten Son"? Hot Tip: ^^^^^^^^ "And Peter said to them, `Repent, and let each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins;...'" (Acts 2:38). It is most unlikely that apostle Peter would have disobeyed the specific command of Jesus Christ for baptising in the three names and baptized them in the name of Jesus Christ, alone. ****************************************************************** -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Question No.7 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Apostle John in his first Epistle, chapter 5 and verse 7 wrote: "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost, and these three are one."; is this not a fair testimony to acknowledge the `Doctrine of Trinity'? Answer No.7 ^^^^^^^^^^^ 1. The text quoted does appear in the Kings James Version but has been omitted by most of the editors of the recent versions e.g. Revised Standard Version, New American Standard Bible, New English Bible, Phillips Modern English Bible, because the quoted text does not appear in the older Greek manuscripts. 2. Renowned historian Edward Gibbon calls the addition a "Pious Fraud" in his famous history book `Decline and Fall of Roman Empire'. 3. Peakes commentary on the subject reads; "The famous interpolation after "three witnesses" is not printed even in RSVn, and rightly. It cites the heavenly testimony of the Father, the logos, and the Holy Spirit, but is never used in the early trinitarian controversies. No respectable Greek MS contains it. Appearing first in a late 4th-cent. Latin text, it entered the Vulgate and finally the NT of Erasmus." Hot Tip: ^^^^^^^^ Notwithstanding the above rejections, the verse that follows the quoted text reads in KJV; "And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood; and these three agree in one." (1John5:8). Are these three witnesses "co-equal"? Can blood be substituted with water? Can water be regarded as the same in any respect with the Spirit? Just as the spirit, the blood and the water are three separate entities, so are the first three witnesses, namely; the Father, the Son (Word, Logos) and the Holy Spirit (Ghost). ******************************************************************* -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Question No.8 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Jesus said:"He who believes in the son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him." (John 3:36); are you not under the wrath of God for not being a follower of Christ - a Christian, by belief? Answer No.8 ^^^^^^^^^^^ It is an interesting question. In fact, we Muslims should be asking the question to you the followers of Christ. Do the vast majority of Christians truthfully believe Christ for what he said he was, and, truly understand his commands and obey them? We believe, most of the followers who claim to be Christians do not even understand the implications of calling their Leader or Lord; "Christ". (The readers will understand what I mean by the last sentence, once they go through the rest of the text). Here is the answer to your question. The above verse has two parts. `Belief' and `Obedience'. On the subject of Belief in Christ, Jesus asked his disciples; "But who do you say that I am? And Peter answered and said, "The Christ of God." (Luke 9:20). Peter did not say God or a god. We Muslims truly believe Jesus was "The Christ (al-Masih) of God". The expression "The Christ of God" literally means; "The one that was anointed by God himself". Please go back in time and think. God performed the ceremony of anointing (physically or spiritually) and for that reason, Jesus became "The Christ of God". Now may I please ask you a simple question. Who is greater and exalted; the one who anointed, or, the one who got anointed? Since God anointed Jesus, God is the greater and exalted between the two, which we Muslims, do truly believe. But surprisingly, the followers who say Jesus is "Christ", don't. HOT TIP: ^^^^^^^ "...Thy holy Servant Jesus, whom Thou didst anoint,..." (Acts 4:27 - New American Standard Bible). This leaves no room for doubt that Jesus was a `Servant of God'. Besides, there are other verses which declare Jesus; God's Servant. ---------------- Now let us go to the second part of the quoted verse; "obeying the Christ". Please read the following verse and ask yourself a question; have I obeyed? "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears my word, and believes Him who sent me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgement, but has passed out of death into life." John 5:24 Have I believed and placed my trust basically, fundamentally and predominately in Him or in Jesus? Hot Tip: ^^^^^^^^ Jesus said; "But I do not seek my glory; there is One who seeks and judges." John 8:51. Who is this "One", who is not Jesus? Have you basically, essentially and fundamentally glorified the "One" or Jesus? Please remember, the "One" will be the Judge on the Day of Judgement and not Jesus. If you disbelieve or disobey the above word of Jesus please read the verse quoted by you and then think about the "wrath of God". ********************************************************************* -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Question No.9 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ In the Book of Genesis 1:26, we read; "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness..."; does not the use of terms "us" and "our" prove that the God which created man was not a singular entity, furthermore, does it not support the Johnannine concept (John 1:3); all things came into being through Jesus? Answer No.9 ^^^^^^^^^^^ 1. Below is an extract from a commentary for the above verse, written by the editors of King James Version (The Hebrew-Greek Key Study Bible, 6th edition): "The Hebrew word for God is `Elohim' (430), a plural noun. In Genesis 1:1, it is used in grammatical agreement with a singular verb `bara' (1254), created. When plural pronouns are used, "Let us make man in our image after our likeness," does it denote a plural of number or the concept of excellence or majesty which may be indicated in such a way in Hebrew? Could God be speaking to angels, the earth, or nature thus denoting Himself in relation to one of these? Or is this a germinal hint of a distinction in the divine personality? One cannot be certain." Having written "One cannot be certain", the editors try to advocate the theory of Jesus, as the "essential (internal) unity of Godhead." 2. The response to your question, as well as, to the commentators remark; "One cannot be certain", lies not very far, but in the next verse (Genesis 1:27), which reads; "And God created man in His own image,..." This statement tells us that the actual act of creation when performed, was performed by "Him" and in "His" image and not by "Us" in "Our" image. Hot Tip: ^^^^^^^^ As a closing conclusive argument, here is a statement of truth from Jesus himself; "And he (Jesus) answered and said unto them, `Have you not read, that He which made them at the beginning made them male and female." (Matthew 19:4). This statement by Jesus also negates the so called Johnannine concept put forward by you (NOT by apostle John); "all things came into being through Jesus." ********************************************************************** -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Question No.10 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ In the Gospel of John, we find that eight days after his resurrection, Jesus stood before his disciples and asked the unbelieving Thomas to feel his hands and side, to verify the nail marks and spear scar. After seeing the hands and the side, Thomas said to Jesus; "My Lord and my God." If Jesus was not God, he would have certainly reprimanded Thomas, but he did no such thing, does this not prove, `Jesus was God'? Answer No.10 ^^^^^^^^^^^^ Please allow me quote from the `New American Standard Bible' the entire text as it appears in Ch.20:27-28 from John's Gospel: "Then he (Jesus) said to Thomas, "Reach here your finger, and see my hands, and reach here your hand, and put it into my side; and be not unbelieving, but believing." Thomas answered and said to him, "My Lord and my God!" 1. Please observe the mark of exclamation (!) at the end of the phrase. (Note: K.J.V. has removed the exclamation mark). 2. Please observe there was no question asked in the entire narration. Hence, the text which reads "Thomas answered" is inaccurate. 3. The last phrase "My Lord and my God!" was not an *answer* but an outburst of *exclamation* by Thomas, having seen something inexplicable and baffling. Often, we too cry out; "O' my God!" when we see something totally bizarre or grotesque. 4. To prove that the above explanation is not my concocted theory, below are the texts from two reputed versions of the Bible that support this theory. a. In the `New English Bible' it reads: Thomas said, "My Lord and my God!" b. In the `Phillips Modern English Bible' it reads: "My Lord and my God!" cried Thomas. HOT TIP: ^^^^^^^^ Apostle John writes, immediately after the discourse between Jesus and Thomas; "Many other signs therefore Jesus also performed in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; but these have been written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ..." If John had recognized the answer by Thomas to be a testimony for the `Deity of Jesus' and the observed silence by Jesus to be his acquiesce to such a testimony, then John would have written "Jesus is the God" and not "Jesus is the Christ..." ********************************************************************* -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Question No.11 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Apostle Matthew records that Jesus was worshipped by Magi that came from the East (2:11); by the boat people (14:33); by Mary Magdalene and the other Mary (28:9); and also by his disciples on a mountain in Galilee (28:17). Since worshipping any one other than God is a fundamental sin, why did not Jesus stop these people from worshipping him, unless he was God himself? Answer No.11 ^^^^^^^^^^^^ 1. For your information, none of the above worshipped Jesus. Nor, did apostle Matthew record it so. According to the lexical aids to the Bible, the proper Greek word for `worship' is `sebomai' (4576) from the root `seb'. That word `sebomai' is used by apostle Matthew in 15:9 where Jesus said; "But in vain do they worship me,..." The Greek word used by the apostle in the above quotes is `prosekunesan' and not `sebomai'. `Prosekunesan' comes from `proskuneo' (4352), which literally means bow, crouch, crawl, kneel or prostrate. If the apostle wanted to convey; `Jesus was worshipped', he would have used the word `sebomai' which he did not. 2. To prove the point further, in `New English Bible' the translations of the quoted verses read; `bowed to the ground' in (2:11); `fell at his feet' in (14:33); `falling prostrate before him' in (28:9), and `fell prostrate before him' in (28:17). 3. The question of Jesus stopping them for worshipping, therefore does not arise, because they simply bowed or prostrated to him. HOT TIP: ^^^^^^^^ Apostle Mark records in 10:17-18; "And as he (Jesus) was setting out on a journey, a man ran up to him and knelt before him and began asking him, "Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit the eternal life?" And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone." It sounds inharmonious and inconsistent that a person who even refuses to be called "good" could have allowed any one to worship him. Since, no one is good except "God alone", should not Christians be worshipping directly to that solitary God to whom Jesus himself prayed more than a dozen times, according to the Gospels? ********************************************************************** -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Question No.12 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ When prophet Moses asked God; What was His name? What shall he say to his people? From behind the Burning Bush God replied; "I AM THAT I AM." God also asked Moses to say to the sons of Israel: "I AM hath sent me unto you." Exodus 3:14. When confronted by Jews; "Jesus said unto them, `Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am." (John 8:58 K.J.V.). Jesus also said; "I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am (he), ye shall die in your sins. (John 8:24, K.J.V.). Does that not prove, Jesus existed before his birth; he was the One who spoke to Moses from behind the Burning Bush; and if you do not believe that, you will die in your sins? Note: The word `he' in the verse above as well as in the Hot Tip below, appear in the italic types in King James Version (K.J.V.). Since I cannot use italics on e-mail, I have placed the word `he' within parenthesis. Answer No.12 ^^^^^^^^^^^^ Your question is based upon a simple conjecture. Even the editors of K.J.V. insinuate that fact. Under the foot note of Exodus 3:14 the editors write; "Jesus probably alluded to this name of God in John 8:58, `Before Abraham was, I AM." The use of phrase "probably alluded" clearly indicates it is not an established reality. My dear friend, a surmise can never take place of (replace) an acknowledged statement. This is what Jesus said; "...I am (he), and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things." (John 8:28). God of Moses that claimed "I AM THAT I AM" had no instructor or tutor, and, needed no tutoring. If God had an instructor or an educator, then what would you call that entity? God's mentor or boss?? As for the existence of Jesus before his birth, please remember Jesus was anointed by God before he was born. Hence, he was called Christ (Messiah). Besides Jesus, there were others who were either anointed, consecrated or made holy, before their births. (see Ps. 89:20, Is. 45:1, 61:1; 1 Sam. 24:6). God did take a solemn covenant from Novah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus - son of Mary, and Muhammad before they were sent, reveals the Qur'an. Bible records, God came to prophet Jeremiah and said to him; "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I have appointed you a prophet to the nations." Jeremiah 1:5. I have question for you. How would you explain this ensuing statement? Jesus said to Jews; "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day, and he saw it, and was glad." (John 8:56) HOT TIP: ^^^^^^^^ When Jews were doubtful about the identity of a particular blind beggar who had been healed by Jesus, the blind beggar - who was no more blind, kept saying; "I am (he)" (John 9:9, K.J.V.). Does that make the blind beggar, God! Further more, the beggar when questioned about Jesus who had healed him, replied to Jews; "And he said, "He is a prophet." (John 9:17). ********************************************************************* -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Question No.13 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Apostle Mark records in 16:19; "...He (Jesus) was received up into heaven, and sat down at the right hand of God." The question is, who can have such an unparalleled privilege and distinction, besides his own begotten Son? Is there anyone else who has been elevated to that station, in any other scripture? Answer No.13 ^^^^^^^^^^^^ 1. Are you aware of the fact that there are two versions of Mark's Gospel? One is called the shorter version and other, the longer version. The shorter version, which ends at verse 8, does not contain the above verse. 2. One of the two great achievements of an eminent biblical critic of the nineteenth century, Lobegott Friedrich Konstantin Von Tischendorf, was the historical discovery of the oldest known Bible manuscript `Codex Sinaiticus' from St. Catherine's Monastery in Mt. Sinai. The most damaging piece of evidence that Tischendorf discovered in this 5th century document was that the gospel of Mark ended at 16:8. In other words, the last 12 verses (Mark 16:9 to 20) were "injected" sometime after the 5th century. Clement of Alexandria and Origen never quoted these verses. Later on, it was also discovered that the said 12 verses, wherein lies the various accounts of "Resurrected Jesus", do not appear in codices Syriacus, Vaticanus and Bobiensis. Today, in many of the revised versions of the Bible, the said twelve verses appear within parentheses. Tischendorf also discovered that John's gospel was heavily reworked. For example, verses starting from John 7:53 to 8:11 are not to be found in codices Sinaiticus or Vaticanus. Similarly, a verse from the gospel of Luke that speaks of Peter running to the tomb, stooping and looking in and finding it empty and marvelling at what had happened is not to be found in the ancient manuscripts. (For detailed information please read `Secrets of Mount Sinai' by James Bentley, Orbis, London, 1985). 3. Peake's Commentary on the Bible records; "It is now generally agreed that 9-20 are not an original part of Mk. They are not found in the oldest MSS, and indeed were apparently not in the copies used by Mt. and Lk. A 10th-cent. Armenian MS ascribes the passage to Aristion, the presbyter mentioned by Papias (ap.Eus.HE III, xxxix, 15)." HOT TIP: ^^^^^^^^ The Book of Revelation (symbolic and obscure writings of uncertain authorship), records in 3:21 that Jesus sat down with his Father on his Father's throne. You write, based upon injected verse; Jesus sat down at the right hand side of God. Which one do you believe? ******************************************************************* -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Question No.14 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ In the Epistle of Paul to Romans, it reads; "that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you shall be saved; for with the heart man believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation." (Roman 10:9-10, NASB). The salvation is assured to us Christians who confess with our mouth and heart; Jesus Christ to be our Lord. What do Muslims have for their salvation? Answer No.14 ^^^^^^^^^^^^ This is a preferred verse with the evangelic missionaries. It is one of the bases of the Christianity propagated by Paul and needs to be addressed in detail and from various perspectives. 1. This is a quotation from one of the Epistles (letters) written by Paul. While reading a passage from an Epistle one has to bear in mind that these letters when written by the author, were a sort of discourse containing religious instructions and admonitions, and, were not intended to form a part and parcel of the canonical Scripture. 2. To substantiate the above claim, please read 1 Corin 7:25-26 and 7:40. Here Paul writes; "I give an opinion"; "in my opinion" and "I think" (twice). Whereas, Jesus - the prophet of God, admitted; "...and I do nothing on my own initiative, but I speak these things as the Father taught me." (John 8:28). One has to differentiate "my opinion" and "my thought" from the "inspired" or the divinely "tutored" document. 3. In 2 Corin 12:16, Paul - a zealous persecutor of the disciples that overnight became a fervent propagator of `Christianity', makes a perplexing statement; "...crafty fellow that I am, I took you in by deceit." Jesus was a righteous prophet propagating the `Kingdom of God'. His mission was, alike every other Jewish prophet, to glorify God alone. 4. Imagine, you are at a crossroad. There are three signs. Paul transcribes; Take the Left turn to reach the Destination. Jesus transcribes; Take the Right turn. The Old Testaments transcribes; Take the Right turn. Which way should you be headed if you wish to reach the Destination with certainty? Please bear this viewpoint in mind, while comparing various passages from the Bible. 5. Now let us go to Roman 10:9-10, the verses quoted by you in the above question. Please continue reading the succeeding verses, which say; "For the Scripture says, `Whoever believes in Him will not be disappointed.' For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ all who call upon Him; for `Whoever will call upon the name of the Lord will be saved." (Roman 10:11-13). Note: The editors of the New Testament have created confusion by translating the Greek word `Theos' (meaning, God) as "Lord". And, the Greek word `Kurios' (meaning, Master, Owner, Head of a house) as "Lord", as well. For those who consider Jesus to be God, it may not make any difference, but for the rest it does. 6. To resolve the dilemma as to who is this "the same Lord" who is the Lord of Jews, of Greeks and of all; let us go to verses 3:29-30 in the same Epistle. It reads; "Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also-if indeed God is one- and He will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith." Jews never accepted Jesus as their Prophet or Messiah, leave alone accepting him as their Lord (Master) or as their Lord (God). So, "Lord Jesus" is out of the picture, leaving "Lord the God" to be the "one God" of all. 7. To answer your specific question, the verse above reads; "Whoever will call upon the name of the Lord (Lord of all) will be saved." We Muslims call upon the name of that Almighty God, the God of all, who pronounced His Commands to Adam, Noah, Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, David, Solomon, Jesus, Muhammad and many others (peace be upon all the prophets). 8. BTW, the verses that you have originally quoted has one very portentous underlying theme which you probably might have over looked. It says; "and (if you) believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you shall be saved." This sentence conveys there were two separate entities: a. One called Jesus, who was dead and lying motionless in a tomb. b. One called God, who was alive and able to perform acts. The entity (b) raised the entity (a) that was in an agony. "And God raised him up again, putting an end to the agony of death..." Acts 2:24. I hope you will henceforth recognize "the dead" and "the alive" to be two distinct entities and "un-equal", whenever you think of the "Risen Jesus". 9. Would it not be an unfair practise on part of the Almighty God to have sent His son as a "Saviour to all" thousands of years after Adam. Did not that deprive those born before the Christian Era of "the easy way out" to the Salvation? God cannot be unfair. He is a Righteous God. May be the entire concept is an Innovation. 10. Tom Harpur, a former professor of New Testament and an Anglican Minister writes; "Perhaps I am lacking in piety or some basic instinct, but I know I am not alone in finding the idea of Jesus' death as atonement for the sins of all humanity on one level bewildering and on the other morally repugnant. Jesus never to my knowledge said anything to indicate that forgiveness from God could only be granted `after' or `because of' the cross." (For Christ's Sake, p.75). HOT TIP: ^^^^^^^^ "And there is no other God besides Me, A righteous God and a Saviour; There is none except Me. `Turn to Me, and be saved, all the ends of the earth; For I am God, and there is no other." Isaiah 45:21-22. (please also read Hosea 13:4). When God said; "all the ends of the earth" He righteously meant it to be so. The era of "cross" should make no difference. BTW, if you truly accept the end part of the quoted Isaiah, you have accepted the first half of the `Confession of Islamic Faith' called "Shahadah". Help: Do you have contacts with the editors of Islamic Magazines or ^^^^^ the publishers like ISNA, ICNA, WAMY? If so, please request them to serialise FAQ/BIBLE. ****************************************************************** -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Question No.15 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ From the prologue of John's Gospel, I have a very valid and legitimate three part question:- (a) Was not Jesus God from the beginning? Verse upholding (a); In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (John 1:1) (b) Were not all things made through Jesus?? Verses upholding (b); He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through him; and apart from him nothing came into being that has come into being. (John 1:2-3) (c) Was not Jesus made flesh and dwelt among us??? Verse upholding (c); And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth. (John 1:14) Answer No.15 ^^^^^^^^^^^^ This three part question is so often repeated, collectively or individually, that I will try to answer them (God-willing), from various perspectives. For an uncomplicated comprehension, I am going to separate the three part question into three separate questions. In this number fifteen, I will deal with part (a) above. 1. The verse insinuates "Jesus was God from the beginning" because Christians have, for the last numerous generations, embraced the concept of SUBSTITUTING the word "Word" (Greek term `Logos') with "Jesus". John did not write "Jesus". It is a SUBSTITUTION. 2. One can only SUBSTITUTE (of course with admissible logic), the original term *IF* the LITERAL translation of the used term fails to reconcile with the rest of the text. Unfortunately, as you will soon discover, the situation here is the other way around. 3. Please read the last two lines from (a) with the SUBSTITUTION. It reads; "and Jesus was with God and Jesus was God." How can Jesus be "with" God and "was" God, as well? It defies the logic. The SUBSTITUTION creates an enigmatic dilemma to which the Christian scholars have yet to find an answer. 4. The norm of accepting the SUBSTITUTION has been so deep rooted that no believing Christian scholar has sincerely attempted to find out what in reality is the LITERAL translation. Let us do it together. The Greek term `Logos' is derived from the root word `Lego' meaning `to speak'. The literal translation of `Logos' is `something spoken or thought'. The verification of the above translation is simple. Please pick up your English Dictionary and look for the word `Decalogue'. Surprised! It reads; `The Ten Commandments'. (deka=ten; logous=commands). Now please flip a few more pages of your dictionary and go to the word `Logos'. Please look for the word origin. In my pocket `Oxford Dictionary' it reads; "[Gk, = reason, discourse, (rarely) word]." 5. Having discovered the LITERAL translation of the word "Logos" used by apostle John, let us read (a): In the beginning was the `spoken word, command', and the `spoken word, command' was with God, and the `spoken word, command' was Divine. (John 1:1) 6. The LITERAL translation is not only logical but it coincides perfectly with the prologue of the Book of Genesis. "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." "And the God said, Let there be light; and there was light." (Genesis 1:1 and 3) ^^^^^ 7. You may now ask, why did I translate "Divine" instead of "God" in the last line?. The answer is based upon the usage of Greek grammar. In the second line, the phrase used by John for "God" is `ho theo', meaning `the God'. In the last line it is simply `theo', the definitive article `the' is not used. Why? Because, it is a predicate of the subject `ho theo'. The predicate is used to denote the nature, quality, attribute or property of the subject. Here the in this instance the nature of the God's spoken command was Divine. 8. In `New translation of the Bible' (1922) by the famous Dr. James Moffatt, it reads; "the Logos was Divine." And, also in `The Complete Bible - An American Translation' (Smith-Goodspeed) and `The Authentic New Testament' by Hugh J. Schonfield. Please look for No. 16 and 17 for answers to (b) and (c) above. HOT TIP: ^^^^^^^^ Paul wrote; "...if any man is preaching to you a Gospel contrary to which you received, let him be accursed (anathema)." Gal. 1:9. Suggestion: ^^^^^^^^^^^ Who does not like to make some money as a side income! Print a booklet of FAQs/BIBLE. Put a price on it and sell. Make some money. No royalty expected. My recompense `Ajar' is with Allah. ******************************************************************** -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Question No.16 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ From the prologue of John's Gospel, I have a very valid and legitimate three part question:- (a) Was not Jesus God from the beginning? Verse upholding (a); In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (John 1:1) (b) Were not all things made through Jesus?? Verses upholding (b); He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through him; and apart from him nothing came into being that has come into being. (John 1:2-3) (c) Was not Jesus made flesh and dwelt among us??? Verse upholding (c); And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth. (John 1:14) Answer No.16 ^^^^^^^^^^^^ Below is a response to part (b) above. Part (a) has been replied under FAQ number 15. Part (c) will be replied under FAQ number 17. 1. The opening word of John 1:2 in the Greek text is `houtos' (3778), which translates `the same'. The usage of word "He" in the above quote, is based upon the traditional concept of SUBSTITUTING the Greek term "Logos" with "Jesus", as explained in FAQ 15. 2. In the King James Version, it reads; "The same was in the beginning with God", which supports the above clarification. 3. Based upon the LITERAL translation of the word "Logos" as explained in FAQ 15, the verse should read; "The same (i.e. the spoken divine word, command) was in the beginning with the God." This LITERAL translation coincides with the opening of the Old Testament. (Genesis 1:3,6,11,14,20 & 24). 4. In John 1:3 above, the Greek word used for "him" is `autos' (846), which means; her, it (-self); (self-) the same; (him-, my-, thy-,) self; etc. If one was to continue the LITERAL translation from the beginning, the verse should read; All things came into being through it; and apart from it nothing came into being that has come into being. (John 1:3) Here "it" stands for "the spoken divine word, command." 5. For some reason, one was to quote Colossians 1:16 which reads; "For in Him all things were created, both in the heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities - all things have been created through Him and for Him." And, go on contending that in the above letter by Paul, "Him" refers to "Jesus", and his/her beliefs are valid, please let him/her read the following. 6. In `The Oxford Companion to the Bible", edited by Bruce M. Metzger and Michael D. Coogan, published by the Oxford University Press, on page 127, it reads; "The Pauline authorship of Colossians has often been challenged over the last 160 years. The grounds for this questioning concern the language and style of the letter; more recently it has been argued that there are major differences between Colossians and the theology of the main Pauline letters, particularly in relation to the person and cosmic work of Christ, the Church as the body of Christ, and early Christian tradition." 7. If all things, including men and women were created through Jesus, then the righteous Jesus would not have told the Pharisees that from the beginning "God" created man and woman. (Matt. 19:4). 8. However, if the person is unwilling to write-off the so called canonical letter by Paul on the basis of the above two observations, please ask him/her to read the quoted scripture below which unequivocally tells us that "God" created man, made the earth and stretched out the heavens with HIS OWN HANDS. HOT TIP: ^^^^^^^^ "It is I who made the earth, and created man upon it. I stretched out the heavens with My hands, And I ordained all their host." (Isaiah 45:12). Please also read Psalms 147-148, where the Psalmist bids Zion to "Praise your (their) God", who has done multitude of things and created; the heavens, the heights, His angels, His hosts, Sun, Moon, Stars and the waters that are above the heavens, by His own Command. *************************************************************** -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Question No.17 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ From the prologue of John's Gospel, I have a very valid and legitimate three part question:- (a) Was not Jesus God from the beginning? Verse upholding (a); In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (John 1:1) (b) Were not all things made through Jesus?? Verses upholding (b); He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through him; and apart from him nothing came into being that has come into being. (John 1:2-3) (c) Was not Jesus made flesh and dwelt among us??? Verse upholding (c); And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth. (John 1:14) Answer No.17 ^^^^^^^^^^^^ Below is a response to part (c) above. Parts (a) and (b) have been replied under FAQ 15 and 16. 1. To comprehend what apostle John wrote in (c) above, one has to read what John wrote ten verses earlier, i.e. in John 1:4. According to the LITERAL translation, in that verse, John wrote; "In it was life; and the life was the light of men." 2. As demonstrated earlier the word "it" stands for "Logos" (the divine command that was in the beginning with the God). Consequently, "In it (in the God's command was life); and that life was the light (the guidance, enlightenment) for men." 3. I have rendered "light" as the guidance and enlightenment, because in 1:9 John wrote; "There was the true light which, coming into the world, enlightens every man". 4. Unfortunately, "And the light shines in the darkness; and the darkness did not comprehend it (him)." (John 1:5). Note: In either case; the word "it" which stands for God's command, or "him" which stands for Jesus, makes sense. 5. Going back to (c) above; "And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth." (John 1:14). What the apostle LITERALLY meant was; "And the Logos (the God's command, which was from the beginning with God, wherein was the life) became flesh, and dwelt among us,..." 6. Briefly, the embodiment in flesh was of "Logos" - the God's command, and NOT of the God. The conception of Jesus within the womb of his mother, Virgin Mary, was in reality made possible by an act of God's command - the "Logos". Jesus was neither God nor the physical incarnation of God. 7. The entire text which reads; "and we be held his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father" is written within parentheses in the Kings James Version. Hence, it is considered as the editor's enhanced notes or addendum. 8. As for the true meaning of the original term used by John in his Gospel, for the mistranslated phrase "the only begotten", please see the earlier answers. HOT TIP: ^^^^^^^^ To those who prefer to contend; (a) "and the Word (Jesus) was *with* God" (John 1:1). (b) "He (Jesus) was in the beginning *with* God" (John 1:2). (c) "And the Word (Jesus) *became* flesh" (John 1:14) they have no recourse but to admit that it was either at the *beginning* or after the act of *becoming* happened, "Jesus" who was "with" God or "became" flesh, had to be either an additional, other, different, distinct, or dissimilar entity than the God. Now, having no way to retreat, please read the following: "No one can serve two masters;..." Matthew 6:24 If you wish choose the ONE and the only Master, please read; "Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honour and glory forever and ever. Amen." 1 Timothy 1:17 Can any one deny; "Jesus" who dwelt among us, was "visible"! **************************************************************** -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Question No.18 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ While declaring Christ's superiority to the Angels, in the Epistle to the Hebrews, God said to Jesus: 1. Thou art My Son, Today I have begotten Thee. 1:5 2. Let all the Angels worship you. 1:6 3. Sit on My right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. 1:13 How can you deny these "Words of God"? Answer No.18 ^^^^^^^^^^^^ 1. Before I answer your question, please tell me who was the author of this letter (Epistle) to the Hebrews from which you have submitted the above "Words of God"? Before one places his/her confidence in the quoted texts and builds up the faith, it is equitable and fair to first identify the authorship of the letter. 2. Have you noticed that the name of the author, which is invariably mentioned in the title (heading) of every Epistle, is conspicuously missing in the Hebrews. To know the reason why, please read the followings: 3. The King James Version is supposed to be the most conservative biblical version. The editors of K.J.V. (New Revised and Updated 6th, the Hebrew/Greek Key Study, Red Letter Edition), in their introduction to the Epistle to the Hebrews, write: "The author of the Book of Hebrews is unknown. Martin Luther suggested that Apollos was the author...Tertullian said that Hebrews was a letter of Barnabas...Adolf Harnack and J. Rendel Harris speculated that it was written by Priscilla (or Prisca). William Ramsey suggested that it was done by Philip. However, the traditional position is that the Apostle Paul wrote Hebrews...Eusebius believed that Paul wrote it, but Origen was not positive of Pauline authorship." 4. The traditional position that "Apostle Paul wrote Hebrews" is seriously undermined by the fact that the Epistle to Hebrews does not begin with his personal name. For your information, each and every other Epistle of Paul begins with his personal name. The Hebrews begin with God's name. Further, Paul had specified that his letters will bear his signature. 5. The Epistle to the Hebrews is not listed in the 6th century list of the manuscripts called Codex Claromon. This leads to the suspicion that it could have been written at a later date. 6. The critics who have studied the text of Hebrews suggest, it is not likely the work of Paul. It was written much later to prove the superiority of God's Son (Jesus) over God's Prophets (Abraham and others). In other words, the document was created by a pseudo author to prove the superiority of Christianity over Judaism. 7. All the three quoted passages from the Hebrews are in fact the direct quotes from Psalms. (Psalms 2:7; 97:7; 110:1). To say that the Psalmist had written these Songs "about Jesus" and not "about characters from their history" needs hard evidence, which is not to be found in the Psalms. Lack of such evidences have lead the bible critics to question: Were the prophecies of the Old Testament fulfilled by the history, or, the history was written to fulfil the prophecies? (May I add, specially when the authorship is questioned, not by the outsiders, but the insiders! KJV). HOT TIP: ^^^^^^^ Al-Hamdulillah (Praise be to "the God"), you yourself have indirectly admitted, by submitting the above three quotations that there is only ONE who is: 1. The Eternal 2. The Worthy of Prayers 3. The Supreme. Your quotes and my submissions: 1. Thou art My Son, Today I have begotten Thee. ^^^^^ Yesterday, the Son did not exist. "The God" alone is "The Eternal". ^^^^^^^^^ 2. Let all the Angels worship you. If you believe, since Angels worshipped Jesus, `Jesus is Worthy of Prayers' then in the Garden of Gethsemane, Jesus "fell on his face and prayed, saying, `My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from me." (Matthew 26:39). Hence, the Heavenly Father - "The God" is "The Worthy of Prayers" from Jesus, Angels and every one. 3. Sit on My right hand,.... Does not the above sentence clearly demonstrate (manifest) that "The God" who articulated or commanded the above, was sitting on the "Supreme Throne" and Jesus was standing and waiting to be told to sit down, next to him? "The God" is "THE SUPREME". Note: All the prophets, including Jesus used to "fall on their ^^^^^ faces" like we Muslims do, while praying. See; Abraham, Genesis 17:3; Job, Job 1:20; Moses and Aaron, Numbers 16:22; Jesus, Mt.26:39. http://wings.buffalo.edu/sa/muslim/isl/bible/biblefaq.html
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| | Thursday, September 07, 2000 - 11:27 am RUNTA. and while you are at it; To be son is to be less than divine and to be divine is to be no one’s son. How could Jesus have the attributes of sonship and divinity altogether? . Can you explain that.? Don't ignore, answer it, because people will lose interest in you if you dismiss the quiz put to you forth to answer. Establish credibility which you already lack here okey?. Second is, Christians assert that Jesus claimed to be God when they quote him in John 14:9: "He that has seen me has seen the Father". Didn’t Jesus clearly say that people have never seen God, as it says in John 5:37: "And the father himself which Has sent me, has borne witness of me. You have NEITHER HEARD HIS VOICE AT ANY TIME NOR SEEN HIS SHAPE"? If you are not one fo those missionaires who waste time and are not clear in their quest, I would suggest you change your mind, Because I have tons of questions for you, many shockers in the closet.
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| | Thursday, September 07, 2000 - 11:38 am formerguest, i don't think runta is after the truth. i have the feeling she might dis-appear and hide very soon. before she dis-appears, here is a good site for her to visit and do some more reading: http://www.angelfire.com/ak/BaltoMuslims/answers.html
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| | Thursday, September 07, 2000 - 11:40 am Runta: I feel awfully sorry for you men!! I can can't take your nonsense no more. I have read all you got to say about yourself and i think you made one huge ass mistake. From my view i think you either did not read the Quran b4 you made your regreful decision or just decided to flip a coin like it was said by Formerguest......OOh yeah...or maybe you decided to go with the flow of the wind....to be on the side of the majority since you were living in the west. YOu knew christianity doesn't forbid any of the unlawful acts that will suit your daily life, so you wanted to go with easy thing..... without thinking about the next life. One little advice for you men.....you still got time to repent....although what you did is Shirk....Allah is AL-GHAFUURU RAAHIM....THE MOST FORGIVIN'.
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| | Thursday, September 07, 2000 - 12:50 pm ASAD. This cracks me up okey. Mad LOVES somalis, so he promotes all kinds of things somalis dislike. Somtimes he is not christian but a macist, agnostic trumpet-head. The other time, he agrees with islam in many places. The last posting he fixed in here was that trinity is the islamic fabrication. Waaw, talk about hypocricy here. The other RUNTA person had a somali father right, and he was taught some surahs of islam by his step mother. Later in his adolescence, he goes with christianity. shows up in somali net trying to be all that when he can't explain TRINITY. Check out every gaal who shows up here, he has either a somali father, or loves somalis, or both are somalis but thinks Quran was written by our prophet messenger. Habibo. Don't feel bad, because I trust you and your story. I love you and all. You are my sister, but I am tired of these other guys who can't stand alone by themselves but need a somali connection to speak of their mind.
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| | Thursday, September 07, 2000 - 03:27 pm formerguest, i agree with you on your assessment about these people. i laughed when you said they need a somali connection in order for them to promote their agenda on somalinet while hiding their true colors. my experience in debates with people like them, i found out that they will do anything to promote their propaganda, but usually when they meet people like you who exposes their agenda while at the same time pointing out their weak points, they will dis-appear or they will do bizarre or weird and sometimes funny things. however, they can not help but to come back later on to do their stuff. they are people who are addicted to misleading people. they know they can't defend their beliefs. they try to appear sincere and people who are after the truth, but when things become clear and you catch their tactics, they will change their names. they are after the un educated people in order to mislead them, but as long as there are people like you, they will not succeed.
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| | Thursday, September 07, 2000 - 07:15 pm Asad. Added to their tactics is, log on anonymous, say somalis are bad, or violent, etc etc, then make a connection between the unislamic behaviours they mentioned to the Quran(Like the Quran is gonna get hurt from what somalis do). Or sometimes, they use islam itself to promote their share of the pie. They Talk about islamic tolerance to mute any oppostion to their lies. Be cautious if you see someone taking on somalis, he has another purpose in the loop. Their traps are no more that ellusive anymore. They can hide, but they can't run.
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| | Thursday, September 07, 2000 - 08:59 pm I'd like to presen't my thanks to asad and formerguest for there smart discusion with so called (runta)allah ha idin caafiyo cumrina ha idin siiyo We really need people like you thank you again brother's
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| | Thursday, September 07, 2000 - 09:50 pm Comrades I have two simple questions, anyone who feels qualified please answer. Why do all of you (even the quite intelligent and tolerant Asad) assume that when someone disagrees with you about religion he / she must be evil, have bad intentions, be subversive or diabolical. Is it not possible that we just have well meaning people here who disagree on the issue? Why do you guys always devolve to name calling and ridicule? Why can't you respect each others opinions?
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| | Thursday, September 07, 2000 - 10:25 pm This what the quran says: Surat AlNas " i do not believe in what u believe in nor do u believe in what i believe in i shall never believe in what u believe in and u shall never believe in what i believe in you have your own religiion and i have mine" but mad mac it is the somali way not islamic the quran teaches us to respect others religion
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| | Thursday, September 07, 2000 - 11:44 pm ME. Blessed be the somali way. MAD. We judge people who come here by what they write. You tell and dictate to people what you think and how we should view our religion. That is the proplem. I wouldn't argue with you, if you were joking about somalis all day long as you do. But what I can't accept is any bussiness like attitude towards islam. It is devine revealation from god, we believe in that and you should respect it. See if people harrass you after that. Besides, you don't talk like you are looking for knowledge or to gain anything from a discussion. You always sound determined in your way of thinking, touching off explosive subjects, so naturally one will be inclined to respond in kind, vigilance. May be that will explain myself.
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| | Friday, September 08, 2000 - 06:54 am Formerguest Why do you consider this subject explosive? Isn't it possible that you have your opinion, I have mine, and they're just different. At the end of the day I respect that I'm not going to change your mind, you're not going to change mine, and we simply agree to disagree. I am not dictating what people think. All I'm saying is you should show a little respect to people who disagree with you. If you said I think you're idea is out to lunch, how can you not see the wisdom of the Qur'an? I would not respond with some sort of venemous tirade about how you are disrepecting my beliefs. Why do you guys insist on doing that?
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| | Friday, September 08, 2000 - 06:59 am "Why do all of you (even the quite intelligent and tolerant Asad) assume that when someone disagrees with you about religion he / she must be evil, have bad intentions, be subversive or diabolical." i'm not assuming anything. if i disagree with you, i'll tell you about it. i don't know your intentions, be they evil or not. you are the one who is accusing us of being closed minded people when we disagree with you. you think if we say we only want to follow islam, you think we are not freethinkers. you claim that we do not know anything---about other beliefs. you promote that should read and follow other faiths. you think we could be in different faiths at the same time. what you are promoting is considered evil in islam. are you saying that you not promoting your propaganda, that you do not have an agenda on here. are you saying that there are not people who are addicted to misleading people? i've seen you calling people who disagree with you writing morons. is this what an intelligent and a tolerant person does? if you insult people and call them morons and they say to you that you promote evil teachings, then don't get mad. we can argue with you any issue you bring up, but don't be so arrogant as to presume that you are the only one who is after well meaning discussions about issue. don't think yourself highly, mad mac. if you respect people; then they will respect you. if you don't then, don't get mad.
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| | Friday, September 08, 2000 - 12:22 pm Asad By and large, you and I can banter back and forth and neither of us gets all fired up. But some of the other dudes here, men they go nuts. Scroll back up there and check it out. I know you don't do this, but some of your compatriots just seem to go crazy. I don't get it. Now you are saying that by expressing my opnion this is considered evil in Islam. I am not promoting propaganda, I am furthering a thesis. It's not proven, I just want to get your ideas on it. Maybe there are people who are addicted to misleading people, but I'm not one of them. You have to take people at face value until you have good reason not to. Otherwise everyone would go through life suspicious of everyone. BTW - I only called one person on the General Net a Moron. Did you see his write up? He had it coming to him.
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| | Friday, September 08, 2000 - 12:32 pm runta wat version of the bible were they used to transalate???? and which version do u swear by???
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| | Friday, September 08, 2000 - 02:21 pm "Now you are saying that by expressing my opnion this is considered evil in Islam. I am not promoting propaganda, I am furthering a thesis." you are preaching that we adopt different faiths. you are selling disbelief to us. satan does the same. you preaching is considered evil in islam. there is a such thing called amri bil macruufi wa nahyi calin munkar. you are preaching munkar which is what the devil does. we told you many times that Allah, in His Book, tells us that He will not accept any other religion other than ISLAM. He does not want us to adopt different faiths as you selling to us. i'm not saying your a the devil; i'm saying you are doing the devil's work for him. we prefer to follow Allah's advice. "do not die, except you being a muslim". we reject your preaching of evil ideas. what you are promoting, your propaganda which you are furthering in your thesis, will not work. the truth and false is clear. you are preaching to us false and Allah is telling us the truth.
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| | Friday, September 08, 2000 - 03:05 pm MAC. By now, after talking to many different guys, you would have figured, muslims are not accepting anything different than what the QURAN teaches. If that doesn't get to your head, you can insist on coming back here everytime and call us dogmatic, intolerate or whatever you want. Take all the intelligence and witmanship if they suit you. And as I went back to what is written up there, I found, I have no apologies to offer to nobody. Have you heard <Give Me Liberty, Or Give Me Death> by Patrick Henry?, That is our banner. Only now it reads <Give Me islam, Or Give Me Death>. We are supposed to die believing in nothing BUT ISLAM. All else are not legitimate way to establish contact to ALLAH. We can't approve of anything that ALLAH didn't approve of, if that is what you are looking for in somalinet. You will not be able to understand our point of view UNLESS YOU BECAOME A MUSLIM. As long as that seems a farfetched idea to you, I suggest everybody should keep to himself.
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| | Saturday, September 09, 2000 - 12:43 pm Asad Maybe Allah is telling you the truth, but he's not doing it here on Somali.net. OK, let me try this from a different angle. You know and I know that the rest of the world is not going to commit to Islam. Religous population counts are fairly stable now. If we are going to share this planet how can we do it if everyone thinks that their way is the only way? For Muslims to share the planet with Gaal they have to respect gaal beliefs. Not accept them - just respect them. And the other way around of course. We have to share living space, the planet'S not big enough to do otherwise. Any ideas on how we're going to do this without killing each other off?
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| | Saturday, September 09, 2000 - 08:16 pm "Asad Maybe Allah is telling you the truth, but he's not doing it here on Somali.net. Allah told the truth when He said in His Book He will not accept any other religion other than ISALM. i told you what he said on this forums (somalinet). "OK, let me try this from a different angle. You know and I know that the rest of the world is not going to commit to Islam." what is why we are here on this earth. to be tested of who will accept Allah's mercy(islam). whoever rejects this and does not commit to islam, it is his lost. "Religous population counts are fairly stable now." islam is the fastest growing religion in the world, despite the propaganda of people like you; despite muslims not doing their job. "If we are going to share this planet how can we do it if everyone thinks that their way is the only way?" well, if you can not tolerate differences, then you will get what you deserve. "For Muslims to share the planet with Gaal they have to respect gaal beliefs. Not accept them - just respect them." right, and the gaal has to respect what the muslims belief. "Any ideas on how we're going to do this without killing each other off?" if muslims and the non-muslims fight because of religion, then that is good. i love to go jihad in the name of Allah and die, but so far, as long as there is a peace and no injustice and no corruption, as long as the non-muslims are not Hindering people from worshipping their Allah, then we will not kill each other. there is no such thing as turn the other cheek in islam.
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| | Saturday, September 09, 2000 - 10:49 pm Asad Why are we on earth? You say it'S to be tested on who will receive Allahs mercy. I personally think there's more to it than that. I also think all of the answers are not to be found here on Earth. Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world - but it's not growing very fast. None of them are anymore. The environment is pretty stable now in that area. I can not believe you said that a jihad between the Musslim world and the rest of the world is a good idea. You said you would like to die in a jihad because you would go to heaven. IF Muslims fight the non-Muslim world go to heaven you would, because the Muslim world would get cloberred big time. You don't have even close to the muscle to win such a stupid war. Perhaps this does account for why Muslim countries keep getting their asses kicked over and over. No one wants to tell Muslims what to believe (OK almost no one). But Muslims too have to follow their own religion and show tolerance to others or conflict is inevitable, and Muslims aren't going to win it. They often don't realiye their own weakness.
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| | Sunday, September 10, 2000 - 03:51 am <Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world - but it's not growing very fast. None of them are anymore. The environment is pretty stable now in that area. >. Mad keeps the tabs and the record books of who becomes a muslim. How else did he conclude it slowed down and is very much stable now?. If he can tell us that, it would be great, because we can use the trick. <For Muslims to share the planet with Gaal they have to respect gaal beliefs.>. Not nessecarily true. Everybody has his share of the planet to live on. Gaals can keep their opinions to themselves, muslims do all the time. Gaals shouldn't dictate how muslim countries are ruled. Gaals shouldn't.... the list of shouldn't can drag on miles. <because the Muslim world would get cloberred big time>. That is the gaalka opinion. If christians would wipe out muslims from the map, they would have done so. The reason all western countries envaded islamic countries was to desband the unity and brotherhood of islam. The formation of these small nations was the prevention of a mighty united islamic country that doesn't understand nationality or ethnicity or language differences. Not to mention your country trembles at the word of islamic fundamentalism. Why are they afraid of islam that doesn't virtually exist today?. You see, they know, if islam and muslims are left alone and are not checked, the western countries would be challenged. You are an intelligent officer right?. I bet your briefs include all the time the threat of islam and what should be done about it. You guys dream about islam and have all the time nightmares of being overpowered by islam. For your info, All islamic countries are not built for the service of islamic people. There are kings and sultans, puppets of other institutions(Add this in your intelligence report so that you guys can be aware of what is going on) who all care about the survival of their brutal regimes and unsilamic institutions. Immagine saud Arabia invests in technology, employs all islamic scientists, I think within a year they can produce the nukes you think are gonna be used if muslims fight. As long as we have these children of the american empire watching over islamic countries, you right in your assessment. If you read history, ISLAM ALWAYS HAD THE UPPER HAND OVER THE WEST AND THE EAST COMBINED. When our leaders failed in their duties, Islam is contained to the QURAN and individuals. That is how you should understand. Too bad you couldn't figure that out on your own, espacially when these things are planned in your backyard. Keep on defending these institutions that you are proud of, and when we defend our religion, say, we are close minded. At least, WE DON'T LIVE IN A GUILTY CONSCIENCE LIKE YOU DO. Write a book when you reach sixty about how you spent on servicing America who doesn't appreciate its hereos after they are done being used to murder and kill innocent people throughout the world for the emperial defence. MAKE SURE YOU TAKE SOME FLOWERS TO wherever you committed these merders.
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| | Sunday, September 10, 2000 - 05:50 am but the fact remains guest that we must respect others beliefs even if they do not correspond with ours....that is the teaching of the quran
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| | Sunday, September 10, 2000 - 07:38 am "Why are we on earth? You say it'S to be tested on who will receive Allahs mercy. I personally think there's more to it than that." there is a verse in the Qura'n that tells us why we are on this earth. wamaa qalaqnal jini wal insi ilaa la'yabuduun. to worship, acknowledge and obey Allah. if we do this, we will receive Allah's mercy. if we do not do this we are not worthy of this mercy. "I also think all of the answers are not to be found here on Earth" the answers are in the Qura'n. "Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world - but it's not growing very fast. None of them are anymore. The environment is pretty stable now in that area." yes, islam is the fastest growing religion in the world. if the environment is what prevents people from entering islam, so many americans in america would not be entering islam everyday. "I can not believe you said that a jihad between the Musslim world and the rest of the world is a good idea." jihad is good. there will always be jihad. jihad comes in difference forms, but to stop corruption on earth and religious prosecution, there must be war to stop wars. if you fight for your rights, it is good idea win or loose. there is no such thing as turn the other cheek in islam. "You said you would like to die in a jihad because you would go to heaven." if i do not defend my rights and stop prosecution and the hindering people from worshipping Allah and refuse to fight, i'm not going to heaven. it is sin not to defend yourself and fight for your rights. "IF Muslims fight the non-Muslim world go to heaven you would, because the Muslim world would get cloberred big time. You don't have even close to the muscle to win such a stupid war. Perhaps this does account for why Muslim countries keep getting their asses kicked over and over." again, you missed the point i made. if the so called muslim countries are fights because of their non islamic reasons, then they should be kicked their ass. jihad is fighting for religious reasons. there is no reward for them to fight, because they are fighting stupid war. fighting for Allah's religion is not stupid war. are you suggesting that just because the non-muslims are more powerful than muslims, muslims should just sit and do nothing if they are told they can not worship Allah? how stupid can you be, mad mac? i rather die than be slave to you.
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| | Sunday, September 10, 2000 - 09:14 am Asad On your last point I would agree with you. But no one is trying to enslave Muslims - if you don't count the Afghans and Iranians, who are really busy enslaving themselves. As for bad leadership, well I agree with you there. With one notable exception there's nothing about Islam that puts Islamic societies at a disadvantage. Here's the one disadvatage. I metioned this on this net somewhere before. A friend of mine was attached as an advisor to the Saudi Army during the Gulf War. One day they were suppose to pull maintenance on the tank and the crews were just sitting around, smoking and joking. My friend says, hey we've got to get to work here, there's a war going on. They responded with "If Allah wants the tank to work it will." You can't reason with that. Allah is not going to maintain the tank. That's ridiculous. Now that attitude is a real liability on the battlefield. The guys had balls when they fought, but if your equipment isn't working I don't care what you have in the way of Cajones, you're going to lose.
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| | Sunday, September 10, 2000 - 09:46 am "On your last point I would agree with you. But no one is trying to enslave Muslims" i'm glad that you understand that fighting for your rights and doing jihad is good idea. :-)
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| | Sunday, September 10, 2000 - 10:07 am Anon. I was waiting for MAD to address the issue. The respect these people demand doesn't mean the islamic respect taught in the QURAN. It means silence in the face of aggression and provocation. I am playing this game based on MAD and RUNTA initiatives. MAD. What is wrong with you?. I thought you were eager to discuss about your ass kicking and stupid wars muslims fight. Well, what did you say about the above message?. You don't believe in turning your cheek do you?. Say something.
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| | Sunday, September 10, 2000 - 10:09 am Hi all... I'm back. I was gone for a bit. I don't know how you guys hang around your computer so much. I wish I had so much free time. Hey asad, I tried to read your response to my last entry...but I didn't read it all because it was so long and I don't believe it was your thoughts...I didn't want to read someone's book. So please refrain from huge postings that are too unbearable for to read it all. I don't have that much time. So asad could you re-do your response by reading what I said and answering (your own thoughts) the verses that I (myself) used. That way conversation is much more concise. Okay. Thanks a lot.
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| | Sunday, September 10, 2000 - 10:14 am Hey asad... from a statistic I heard Islam is no longer the fastest growing religion in the world. It may have been at one point. But in sports for example...someone might have a world record and then lose the record in 5yrs 1yr 1mo, etc. I saw a recent ('00 or '99) I believe that said Christianity was the fastest AND largest religion in the world. It was a Christian missions source. however. Could you find an independent recent source ('99 but '00 is better) stating that Islam STILL is the fastest growing religion? Thanks
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| | Sunday, September 10, 2000 - 10:33 am "Hey asad, I tried to read your response to my last entry...but I didn't read it all because it was so long and I don't believe it was your thoughts...I didn't want to read someone's book" i hope you read it at your leisure time. you might benefit from reading. "Yes, you got that from Mark 10. Here's what Jesus also said in that dialogue...Mark 10:21 "21Then Jesus, looking at him, loved him, and said to him, "One thing you lack: Go your way, sell whatever you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, take up the cross, and follow Me." when that jew guy asked jesus to tell him how he can get salvation and heaven, jesus never said the way to get to heaven and salvation is to believe that jesus will die and God will shed jesus's blood for you, did he? jesus said follow me and follow the commandments and this is the way to get salvation and to heaven. in the verse i cited and the one you cited contradict what you and the christians bleieve. "So please refrain from huge postings that are too unbearable for to read it all." i do not care if it is unbearable for you to read it all or not. i'm not here to cater your wishes. if you do not want to read, that is your choice, but i know why it is unbearable for you to read. it is because the information is unbearable, not the reading. "I don't have that much time." read it at your leisure time. it will benefit you. "I didn't want to read someone's book." i did not know that the bible which you quoted was the book you wrote. ! btw, you are still refusing to answer the question i asked you many many times. is jesus christ, the son of mary, your god and savoir and why?
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| | Sunday, September 10, 2000 - 10:47 am "Hey asad... from a statistic I heard Islam is no longer the fastest growing religion in the world." and where did you hear from that statistic? from It was a Christian missions source, right? "I saw a recent ('00 or '99) I believe that said christianity was the fastest AND largest religion in the world." what world are you talking about, runta? the world of christian missions, right? "Could you find an independent recent source ('99 but '00 is better) stating that Islam STILL is the fastest growing religion?" muslims are not the ones saying that islam is the fastest growing religion in the world. you, yourself, said that Islam is no longer the fastest growing religion in the world. you are admitting that one time it was the fastest growing religion in the world. what did the christians do to stop the growth? i see where i live many churches turning to mosques.
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| | Sunday, September 10, 2000 - 09:58 pm Formerguest I don't believe in turning the other cheeck as a matter of state policy. I do believe in it as a matter of individual policy. You know abowe, I can kill a man easily. I have spent my entire adult life (and much of my childhood) mastering the fighting arts with both hands and weapons. But when someone is nasty to me I'm nice. When he acts stupid I'm nice. I'm nice until he crosses the line. Then I'm going to hurt him. I've only had to do that once in my private life. You can't go around killing everyone who makes you mad or escalating everyting into a conflict. It's not reasonable. As for state policy, leaders of states must recognize their own strengths and weaknesses and act accordingly. The US could militarily easily conqueor Saudi Arabi, Kuwait, and the rest of the Arabian peninsula. We don't do that because: It is unjust and we really try not to be unjust. The rest of the world would be pissed off. It would not be worth the effort. Therefore, your ability to physically do something must be tempered with the knowledge that even when you can physically dominate that does not mean your adversary is helpless. The reason I don't like the phrase Jihad is it is much mis-used in the Moslem lexicon. Asad I just have to throw this in. According to the Qur'an Jesus is the son of God. Read it carefully. The Qur'an verifies his immaculate conception (which I don't believe in, but you and the Catholics do) which is what the phrase son of God refers to. Jesus has no biological father. He is fathered by God who miraculously makes Mary conceive. I read this on the train the other day in my Qur'an. What the Qur'an denied is that Jesus and God are part of the same spirit. That Jesus himself is devine. Although theQur'an also holds all prophets devine to a degree - they are suppose to be infallible. Hence the big argument over Lots sex life we had here earlier.
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| | Sunday, September 10, 2000 - 11:05 pm "According to the Qur'an Jesus is the son of God." that statement is a lie. if you are not telling a lie, show us the verse number you are talking about. "The Qur'an verifies his immaculate conception (which I don't believe in, but you and the Catholics do) which is what the phrase son of God refers to." "Jesus has no biological father." that is right. jesus neither biological father nor any other father. he was born without a father. God said BE and he was to born without father. accidentally, adam had no biological or any other father either. also, know that immaculate conception does not refer to the phrase son of God, mad mac. "He is fathered by God who miraculously makes Mary conceive. I read this on the train the other day in my Qur'an. " that is a lie. the Qur'an does not say jesus is fathered by God. maybe you are not reading the Qur'an. maybe you are reading something else. maybe it is hard for you to give up the way you were raised---to believe that God has a son. "What the Qur'an denied is that Jesus and God are part of the same spirit." the Qur'an also denies God having a son. "LAM YALID WALAM YUULAD" "That Jesus himself is devine. Although theQur'an also holds all prophets devine to a degree - they are suppose to be infallible" jesus is a holy prophet of Allah, that is all. prophets could make mistakes. "Hence the big argument over Lots sex life we had here earlier." what you believe and what the christians and jews say about prophet lot is a lie too. prophet lot did not do what you accused of him doing. get your facts together, mad mad.
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| | Monday, September 11, 2000 - 12:09 am MAD. <According to the Qur'an Jesus is the son of God.> You forgot to refer to the verse that teaches such an indication. Can you be kind enough next time you log on, to tell us the verse number and the chapter number?. Because we don't know as muslims such a verse includes in the QURAN. <Jesus has no biological father. He is fathered by God who miraculously makes Mary conceive. >. The first part is true. On the second part,you have no proof(Miracle not included) except you are guessing. IF HAVING NO FATHER COULD MAKE JESUS THE SON OF GOD, ADAM WHO HAD NO FATHER AND NO MOTHER IS MORE ELIGIBLE FOR THAT POSITION. If we follow your logic, christians should worship ADAM too, don't you think? because of his nature of having neither parents would make HIM more eligible for worship more than it does to JESUS. Or is it a freewill?. You can do both or one of them right?. Here is your answer right from the QURAN concerning the creation of those two PROPHETS: <59. The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: "Be". And he was. 60. The Truth (comes) from thy Lord alone; so be not of those who doubt. > AL-IMRAN. 3:59:60. If you are not selective in your understanding, you have your answer right there. Both prophets are created from the same thing. Remember, next time you say the QURAN tells us something to quote the verse(it is more convincing for the crowd). <What the Qur'an denied is that Jesus and God are part of the same spirit. That Jesus himself is devine>. If I understand correctly, you are saying, okey there is no trinity, but sonship. Considering you are taking the QURANIC VERSES at face value, I have a rejection to your allegation right from the QURAN again. And the QURAN doesn't contradict itself. In that case, YOU ARE THE ONE AT FAULT HERE. See these verses: <2.116. They say: "(Allah) hath begotten a son" :Glory be to Him.-Nay, to Him belongs all that is in the heavens and on earth: everything renders worship to Him. 117. The Originator of the heavens and the earth: When He decrees a matter, He says to it: "Be," and it is.> Now, can you see it clearly from the QURAN. You can't use the QURAN to fullfill your wrong beleifs. Plus, ALLAH wanted to create a human being with no father, and he did, The same easiness he created ADAM with no father or mother. ABOUT LOTS SEX LIFE; Not only they lied about NOAH but they have a chain of false accusations against all prophets of god.
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| | Monday, September 11, 2000 - 12:32 am RUNTA. Why not start from MARK:10 verse 17:?. <Now as he was going out on the road , one came running, knelt before him, and asked him "Good teacher, What shall I do that I may inherit eternal life> Note here how the guy was asking about something he could do that would give him A PARADISE(inwhich people have eternal life). <18. So Jesus said to him, "WHY DO YOU CALL ME GOOD?" No one is GOOD but one, that is, GOD" Let us stop here and look for a little miracle in that verse which hammers your wrong beleifs about jesus and god being one in three, Also check how jesus is mindful of HIS GOD and doesn't forget to remind people who the true LORD is. See how JESUS is indicating "NO ONE(including himslef) is good BUT THE LORD?. I hate helping people who don't understand their BOOKS which they claim supports their fabricated ideologies that has nothing to DO WITH JESUS and WITH ALLAH. 1+1+1=1 is rejected by jesus himslef here. I hope you get that into your head and reread the verses very good. Simply put, the verse you quoted earlier plus those verses before and after, tell christians, if they want heaven, they have to work for it. Don't rely on JESUS is what JESUS peace be upon him IS TELLING YOU FALKS. And stop fabricating about him and HIS GOD.
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| | Monday, September 11, 2000 - 03:31 am Asad Actually there are a number of references. The best one I can't find now (most annoying). But these two should suffice. Read Surah 3:45 and 3:47. It plainly says that Allah causes Marys pregnancy. I can't believe you didn't know that. It is this phenomenon that causes Christians to call Jesus the son of God. If God is not his father who is????? You say Jesus has no father. Of course he does. The Qur'an spells it out plainly. Allah causes Mary to conceive. Miracle or not, Allah is still his Father. He caused the conception which is the definition of Father. Don't you see my point. You and Christians are claiming the exact same thing and then quibbling over how you describe it. In common English this is called stupid. Formerguest. I follow your logic train. I am hardly a theologian so I can not tell you why Adam is not also refer to as a son of God - but some Christians do refer to him as the Father of Mankind. Still, based on your observation I think he too would qualify as a son of God if anyone really gave it any thought. In fact, you could say God is both his father and mother. And what's with the charge "Don't understand their books". I don't have a book remmember. Bottom line: If Allah caused Mary to be inseminated then he is the father of Jesus. Now the Qur'an can subsequently deny the use of the term father - that doesn't matter a wit. You can't say you are the father in one sentance and then say you aren't in the next. And you say the Qur'an never contradicts itself- well there you have it. In black and white. If Allah caused Marys insemination he is by definition the Father. You can't have it both ways.
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| | Monday, September 11, 2000 - 04:53 am mad. <And what's with the charge "Don't understand their books". I don't have a book remmember.> Yes, you do have a book. The satanic book that writes and dictates all you are telling us. It is in your head. <Bottom line: If Allah caused Mary to be inseminated then he is the father of Jesus.. I think, you are satanically unique in this one. MAY BE, YOU ARE CONFUSED WITH THE TERM SON of GOD in the bible. Well, guess what?. It was used to address many different people and all humans in the bible, and following your logic, we are all the children of god. Have YOU seen these verses before;(How many sons god HAS following your logic and the bible LOGIC). Adam is a son of God (Genealogy of Jesus)..."the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God." Luke 3:38 Israel(Jacob) "Then say to Pharaoh, 'This is what the Lord says: Israel is my firstborn son." Exodus 4:22 David "He is the one who will build a house for my Name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever. I will be his father, and he will be my son." 2 Samuel 7:13-4 "You are the children of the Lord your God." Deuteronomy 14:1 "I said, 'You are "gods'; you are all sons of the Most High." Psalm 82:6 "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God." Matthew 5:9 "But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven." Matthew 5:44-5 "Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect." Matthew 4:48 "I will be a Father to you, and you will be my sons and daughters, says the Lord Almighty." 2 Corinthians 6:18 ",because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God." Romans 8:14 "they will be called 'sons of the living God." Hosea 1:10 http://www.angelfire.com/fl/religions/son.html <Now the Qur'an can subsequently deny the use of the term father - that doesn't matter a wit>. Yes, for a determined GAALKA and his devilish thinking, I guess, I have to agree with your assessment here. As for us muslims, well, THE OPPOSITE IS TRUE. About the QURAN being false, I think you have talked to many different guys. You know where it will end: Your surrender and admission that you can't prove your claim. Don't waste time here.
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| | Monday, September 11, 2000 - 05:20 am Wait, I just did prove it. The Qur'an says Allah inseminates Mary - hence is Jesus Father. It then subsequently says Allah is not Jesus' father. There you have it. That's about as blatant a contradiction as you can get. So I guess my claim is proven. Look it wouldn't matter what I could prove, your mind was made up long before you logged on to Somali.net. God himself could come down from the heavens and tell you that the he didn't author the Qur'an and you guys would all start calling him a liar. As for the other references, I have don't remember them. But obviously there's some allusory reference here. Also, don't forget, the Bible is not devine - it is devinely inspired. It is a collection of eyewitness and second hand accounts. You can not read any one passage in the Bible and be sure it's correct - it is certainly not the word of God. There have been too many translations, and the accounts themselves come from witnesses and oral histories which in itself is imprecise. The value of the Bible (esspecially the new testament) is in it's overall message of compassion. The Bible IS NOT The Chrisitan equivelant of the Qur'an - because thinking Christians and theologians recognize it's source. Of course you always get those hard core fanatics who insist it's God word 100%. They just a bunch of morons who don't seriously study the book or worse, use it for their own purposes.
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| | Monday, September 11, 2000 - 05:21 am "Actually there are a number of references. The best one I can't find now (most annoying). But these two should suffice. Read Surah 3:45 and 3:47. It plainly says that Allah causes Marys pregnancy. I can't believe you didn't know that." the fact is that surah 3:45 and 3:47 do not say jesus is the son of God. "Allah creates what He will. When He decrees a thing, He only says to it, 'BE', and it becomes." Allah said in another verse, the creation of jesus is like that of adam. neither adam nor jesus is the son of Allah, mad mac. they are created beings. "It is this phenomenon that causes Christians to call Jesus the son of God" and you, mad mac, think muslims believe that jesus is the son of God!? how dumb can you be. "If God is not his father who is?????" he has no father. adam and hawa have no father or mother either. "Of course he does." you are a KADAAB, a LAIR. "He caused the conception which is the definition of Father." as i told you above, immaculate conception does not refer to the phrase son of God, mad mac. "Don't you see my point." yes, i see it, but your point is based on lies and false conception. "You and Christians are claiming the exact same thing and then quibbling over how you describe it." you wish that we and the christians believe the same thing about jesus's creation. i did not know how dumb you can be, mad mac. or are you desperate? :-)
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| | Monday, September 11, 2000 - 05:47 am Nabad iyo Naxariis Ilaahay Korkiina Ha Ahaato Is he worthy to be worshiped? He begets a son millions of years after he created the world! He had his first and only son 2000 years ago! He sacrificed his only son at young age of 34 because of the sins of others! He gives others sons and daughters and condemns them if they kill their children! Surely no sane father will kill his only son period. That is an all time-confused dude who is not worthy of my worship! My God Is Infallible, Say: He is Allah, the One! Allah, the eternally Besought of all! He begetteth not nor was begotten. And there is none comparable unto Him. Ilaahayow Noo Naxariiso!
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| | Monday, September 11, 2000 - 06:11 am Nabad iyo Naxariis Ilaahay Korkiina Ha Ahaato No MAD MAC Qur'an do not verify your misguided assumption and surely Qur'an do not contricted itself. Here is the stroy of the birth of Prophet and Messenger of Allah Isa son of Mary Peace of Allah Be Upon them: Read Maryam 19:16-36 And make mention of Mary in the Scripture, when she had withdrawn from her people to a chamber looking East, And had chosen seclusion from them. Then We sent unto her Our Spirit and it assumed for her the likeness of a perfect man. She said: Lo! I seek refuge in the Beneficent One from thee, if thou art God-fearing. He said: I am only a messenger of thy Lord, that I may bestow on thee a faultless son. She said: How can I have a son when no mortal hath touched me, neither have I been unchaste? He said: So (it will be). Thy Lord saith: It is easy for Me. And (it will be) that We may make of him a revelation for mankind and a mercy from Us, and it is a thing ordained. And she conceived him, and she withdrew with him to a far place. And the pangs of childbirth drove her unto the trunk of the palm-tree. She said: Oh, would that I had died ere this and had become a thing of naught, forgotten! Then (one) cried unto her from below her, saying: Grieve not! Thy Lord hath placed a rivulet beneath thee, And shake the trunk of the palm-tree toward thee, thou wilt cause ripe dates to fall upon thee. So eat and drink and be consoled. And if thou meetest any mortal, say: Lo! I have vowed a fast unto the Beneficent, and may not speak this day to any mortal. Then she brought him to her own folk, carrying him. They said: O Mary! Thou hast come with an amazing thing. O sister of Aaron! Thy father was not a wicked man nor was thy mother a harlot. Then she pointed to him. They said: How can we talk to one who is in the cradle, a young boy? He spoke: Lo! I am the slave of Allah. He hath given me the Scripture and hath appointed me a Prophet, And hath made me blessed wheresoever I may be, and hath enjoined upon me prayer and almsgiving so long as I remain alive, And (hath made me) dutiful toward her who bore me, and hath not made me arrogant, unblest. Peace on me the day I was born, and the day I die, and the day I shall be raised alive! Such was Jesus, son of Mary: (this is) a statement of the truth concerning which they doubt. It befitteth not (the Majesty of) Allah that He should take unto Himself a son. Glory be to Him! When He decreeth a thing, He saith unto it only: Be! and it is. And lo! Allah is my Lord and your Lord. So serve Him. That is the right path. Ilaahayow Noo Naxariiso
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| | Monday, September 11, 2000 - 06:22 am Nabad iyo Naxariis Ilaahay Korkiina Ha Ahaato If that is not enough for you dear MAD MAC; read on [Al-Imran 3:42-62] And when the angels said: O Mary! Lo! Allah hath chosen thee and made thee pure, and hath preferred thee above (all) the women of creation. O Mary! Be obedient to thy Lord, prostrate thyself and bow with those who bow (in worship). This is of the tidings of things hidden. We reveal it unto thee (Muhammad). Thou wast not present with them when they threw their pens (to know) which of them should be the guardian of Mary, nor wast thou present with them when they quarrelled (thereupon). (And remember) when the angels said: O Mary! Lo! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a word from him, whose name is the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, illustrious in the world and the Hereafter, and one of those brought near (unto Allah). He will speak unto mankind in his cradle and in his manhood, and he is of the righteous. She said: My Lord! How can I have a child when no mortal hath touched me? He said: So (it will be). Allah createth what He will. If He decreeth a thing, He saith unto it only: Be! and it is. And He will teach him the Scripture and wisdom, and the Torah and the Gospel, And will make him a messenger unto the Children of Israel, (saying): Lo! I come unto you with a sign from your Lord. Lo! I fashion for you out of clay the likeness of a bird, and I breathe into it and it is a bird, by Allah's leave. I heal him who was born blind, and the leper, and I raise the dead, by Allah's leave. And I announce unto you what ye eat and what ye store up in your houses. Lo! herein verily is a portent for you, if ye are to be believers. And (I come) confirming that which was before me of the Torah, and to make lawful some of that which was forbidden unto you. I come unto you with a sign from your Lord, so keep your duty to Allah and obey me. Lo! Allah is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him. That is a straight path. But when Jesus became conscious of their disbelief, he cried: Who will be my helpers in the cause of Allah? The disciples said: We will be Allah's helpers. We believe in Allah, and bear thou witness that we have surrendered (unto Him). Al-Imran 3:53] Our Lord! We believe in that which Thou hast revealed and we follow him whom Thou hast sent. Enrol us among those who witness (to the truth). And they (the disbelievers) schemed, and Allah schemed (against them): and Allah is the best of schemers. (And remember) when Allah said: O Jesus! Lo! I am gathering thee and causing thee to ascend unto Me, and am cleansing thee of those who disbelieve and am setting those who follow thee above those who disbelieve until the Day of Resurrection. Then unto Me ye will (all) return, and I shall judge between you as to that wherein ye used to differ. As for those who disbelieve I shall chastise them with a heavy chastisement in the world and the Hereafter; and they will have no helpers. And as for those who believe and do good works, He will pay them their wages in full. Allah loveth not wrong-doers. This (which) We recite unto thee is a revelation and a wise reminder. Lo! the likeness of Jesus with Allah is as the likeness of Adam. He created him of dust, then He said unto him: Be! and he is. (This is) the truth from thy Lord (O Muhammad), so be not thou of those who waver. And whoso disputeth with thee concerning him, after the knowledge which hath come unto thee, say (unto him): Come! We will summon our sons and your sons, and our women and your women, and ourselves and yourselves, then we will pray humbly (to our Lord) and (solemnly) invoke the curse of Allah upon those who lie. Lo! This verily is the true narrative. There is no God save Allah, and lo! Allah, He verily is, is the Mighty, the Wise. Ilaahayow Noo Naxariiso
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| | Monday, September 11, 2000 - 06:37 am Asad... I thought through my showing of those Bible verses in John that I believe that Jesus is God. If you are still confused... yes I believe that Jesus is Lord, Master, Savior, and God. FYI- the term "Son" is not LITERAL...i.e God had sex with Mary and had Jesus. The term "Son" was used to simply describe a closeness of relationship in a way humans can understand. So when we say that Jesus is God's Son we don't mean that in the exact same way as a human relationship. Sort of how people say "son of the desert" "son of the road", etc. It's not literal, but it describes more of a relationship of closeness the person has with the road or the desert. With God however the relationship is much more profound. Have you ever thought that maybe those churches becoming mosques were not that the church "went out of business" but left due to growth... they had to find a larger building and you took their old smaller building. I remember when my church moved... it was to a much larger building. That was 4yrs ago. Now we are desparate to move again because we are becoming so large. Parking is a nightmare and people are packed in like sardines. My church is international and represents over 30 nations. So Christianity might not be dying as much as you think.  It's become an axiom that Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world. I just believed my Muslim brother when he told it to me but I never saw any statistics to prove it. I figured he wasn't lying. I don't believe that the missions organization was lying either here is the link: http://www.missionfrontiers.org/2000/03/overview.htm Actually... Islam's total growth rate (births plus conversions) are the greatest in the world (accept that of Charismatic/Pentecostal Christianity) but greater than Christianity as a whole. But Islam's conversion rate is lower than Christianity as a whole and MUCH lower than Charistmatic/Pentecostal Christianity. Since contraception is haram in Islam...total growth rate would be higher...but not for long. You might not be aware of this but there is a HUGE worldwide missions thrust. Prayer movements for the unreached. All sorts of stategies. Soon there will be more non-western cross-cultural missionaries than western missionaries. People are having radical experiences with Jesus through dreams, healings, visions of Jesus. Muslims are becoming Christians at the most unprecedented rate in history. After years of work inroads are being made. These ex-Muslim believers are even willing to give their lives for their new faith. A revolution is occuring and people are spilling their own blood to grow the worldwide church. It's not about giving out trinkets anymore...it's by spreading the Good News by life or by death. There is a quote in church history "The blood of the martyrs is the seed of the church." We don't need "rice Christians" we need people who "love not their lives unto death." With that mentality and the joining of non-industrialized country sending missionaries to the ends of the earth, and radical awakenings of Christians giving themselves to holy living... Christianity has a higher conversion rate Not as much emphasis is placed on sending Muslim evangelists and missionaries. Conversions are more one on one...someone coming to the masjid to look or knowing a Muslim...not through massive evangelistic and missions campaigns to even the most remote areas of the world as in Christianity.
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| | Monday, September 11, 2000 - 07:01 am pagekaan hala xiro ayaan oran lahaa oo yaan la sii qaadin, waayo, gaal weligiis gaal ayuu yahay muslimna waa muslim, marka halla kala daneysto, yaan waqtiga la isaaga qaadin. wassalam, walaalkiin somali-dhab-ah
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| | Monday, September 11, 2000 - 07:19 am You guys all kill me with all this quoting crap. So I'll give you a quote, which doubtless will leave you all pondering - well it should if any of you pondered. ".....You were sitting over there all quiet and ••••." "I was just thinking." "about what?" "About the miracle we witnessed." "The miracle you witnessed. I witnessed a freak occurence." "What is a miracle Vincent." "When God makes the impossible possible. But today, I don't think, qualifies." "Don't you see you're looking at this •••• all wrong. It doesn't matter if God stopped the bullets, he changed coke to pepsi, he found my fucking car keys. You don't judge •••• like this based on merit. Now whether or not what we witnessed was an according to Hoyle miracle is insignificant. What is significant is that I felt the spirit of God, God got involved." "But why?" "Well, that's what fucking with me, but I can't go back on the street." You're serious, you're really thinking about quitin'?" "The Life? Most definately." There's more but it's not real important. Food for thought. For all of you who say Mary conceived miraculously but Allah is not the Father of Jesus follow this logic train someone just used. If the Qur'an says that Allah is not the Father of Jesus then this can not be a contradiction with the immaculate conception because the Qur'an contains no contradictions. Got that? You guys are too funny. If I said the sky is blue you would say it's Charry Red. When I say 'No, I'm pretty sure it's blue' you would say 'Prove it. You're a liar.' Lastly, does anyone on this net know what the word liar means????
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| | Monday, September 11, 2000 - 07:40 am True Mr. Mac that miracles shouldn't be THE defining factor. However, when you have centuries of Muslim defiance to the gospel and now through many supernatural means they are beginning to listen I think that something is going on. You can debate with these guys until you are blue in the face and they won't listen if their minds are blocked. Ever had someone tell you something that you REALLY disbelieved and then one day it just dawns on you that they are right? Well, that's what is happening to a lot of Muslims and God is supernaturally revealing Himself not through simple "I found my car keys and my headache went away" miracles or even "my cancer went away" miracles. That's great. The miracle is that Muslims around the world are having such powerful divine encounters that they are willing to die for something that they were completely repulsed by just a few years earlier. Logic only take you so far. If they don't want to agree... they won't not even if you're the greatest debater in the world. I talked to one Somali Christian and she told me something like, "Somalis are ALWAYS right. No matter what. They never can be wrong." I don't like to debate. I only wanted to share... it has degenerated into a debate. It seems like Muslims know more about the Bible (which they only use non-Christian sources or liberal Christian sources which most orthodox Christians reject) than the Qu'ran. Muslims spend so much time trying to disprove the Bible... not the Vedas or the writings of Confucious but the Bible. I suppose because the Bible is a threat to them...America didn't spend time trying to make Japan look as bad as Russia during the cold war years because Russia was more of a threat. Your average lay Muslim will read a whole lot of Muslim books on the Bible and then think that it's ammunition. When those "Muslim scholars"...try to interpret something in which they have no true expertise in doing...Oh well, when Islam is all that is ingrained in your culture that's all you can see.
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| | Monday, September 11, 2000 - 07:53 am "yes I believe that Jesus is Lord, Master, Savior, and God." ruta, how can you worship a god who used to relief himself when he went to the restroom like you do, a god who ate the kind of food you eat? unlike the christian missionary version which you forwarded to us, here is the muslim version: In the US, where Muslims number over six million, the Islamic faith has in many estimates surpassed Judaism and is believed to be the second largest religion in America. In the United States, where Muslims number over six million, the Islamic faith has in many estimates surpassed Judaism and is believed to be the second largest religion in America after Christianity. While part of the rise in the population of Muslims in the United States is due to immigration, the phenomenal growth of Islam in the past 10 years has come from an increasing number of Americans converting to Islam from other religions. Muslim leaders estimate that half the number of American converts to Islam come from the African-American community. Islam continues to draw followers at an estimated rate of 135,000 converts per year. During the Gulf War alone, it was reported that approximately 3,000 Americans converted to Islam. American women make up the second largest group of converts to Islam. At the rate that Islam is spreading, demographers predict that by the year 2025 one out of four people in the world will be Muslim. The increase in the number of American Muslims may be a result of the presence of more mosques and Islamic centers that are sprouting up in several cities across the United States. There are approximately 2,000 mosques, Islamic centers and schools in the country. The continued growth in the number of converts to Islam should finally put to rest the myth that Islam was ever ‘spread by the sword’. The great number of adherents to the Islamic faith is evidence enough of Islam’s powerful message. http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/newmuslims/
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| | Monday, September 11, 2000 - 08:17 am Nabad iyo Naxariis Ilaahay Korkiina Ha Ahaato Oh Dear! MAD MAC please hear this and comprehend: Then exalted be Allah, the True King! And hasten not (O Muhammad) with the Qur'an before its revelation hath been perfected unto thee, and say: My Lord! Increase me in knowledge. [Ta Ha 20:114] "Lo! the likeness of Jesus with Allah is as the likeness of Adam. He created him of dust, then He said unto him: Be! and he is." Al-Imran 3:59 "And (remember) when thy Lord brought forth from the Children of Adam, from their reins, their seed, and made them testify of themselves, (saying): Am I not your Lord ? They said: Yea, verily. We testify. (That was) lest ye should say at the Day of Resurrection: Lo! of this we were unaware; Or lest ye should say: (It is) only (that) our fathers ascribed partners to Allah of old and we were (their) seed after them. Wilt Thou destroy us on account of that which those who follow falsehood did ? Thus we detail the revelations, that haply they may return. [al-A`raf 7:172-174] Ilaahayow Noo Naxariiso
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| | Monday, September 11, 2000 - 08:22 am Nabad iyo Naxariis Ilaahay Korkiina Ha Ahaato Oh Dear! MAD MAC please read on: His comrade, when he (thus) spake with him, exclaimed: Disbelievest thou in Him Who created thee of dust, then of a drop (of seed), and then fashioned thee a man ? But He is Allah, my Lord, and I ascribe unto my Lord no partner. [al-Kahf 18:37-38] Ilaahayow Noo Naxariiso
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| | Monday, September 11, 2000 - 08:25 am Nabad iyo Naxariis Ilaahay Korkiina Ha Ahaato Oh Dear! MAD MAC and here is more: "O mankind! if ye are in doubt concerning the Resurrection, then lo! We have created you from dust, then from a drop of seed, then from a clot, then from a little lump of flesh shapely and shapeless, that We may make (it) clear for you. And We cause what We will to remain in the wombs for an appointed time, and afterward We bring you forth as infants, then (give you growth) that ye attain your full strength. And among you there is he who dieth (young), and among you there is he who is brought back to the most abject time of life, so that, after knowledge, he knoweth naught. And thou (Muhammad) seest the earth barren, but when We send down water thereon, it doth thrill and swell and put forth every lovely kind (of growth)." [al-Hajj 22:5.18] Ilaahayow Noo Naxariiso
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| | Monday, September 11, 2000 - 08:47 am Nabad iyo Naxariis Ilaahay Korkiina Ha Ahaato Oh Dear! MAD MAC read on it might enlighten you: "Which guideth unto righteousness, so we believe in it and we ascribe no partner unto our Lord. And (we believe) that He - exalted be the glory of our Lord! - hath taken neither wife nor son, And that the foolish one among us used to speak concerning Allah an atrocious lie. And lo! we had supposed that humankind and jinn would not speak a lie concerning Allah"[al-Jinn 72:2-5] Ilaahayow Noo Naxariiso
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| | Monday, September 11, 2000 - 08:56 am Nabad iyo Naxariis Ilaahay Korkiina Ha Ahaato Oh Dear! MAD MAC please read on: "Hath not man seen that We have created him from a drop of seed ? Yet lo! he is an open opponent. And he hath coined for Us a similitude, and hath forgotten the fact of his creation, saying: Who will revive these bones when they have rotted away ? Say: He will revive them Who produced them at the first, for He is Knower of every creation, Who hath appointed for you fire from the green tree, and behold! ye kindle from it. Is not He Who created the heavens and the earth Able to create the like of them? Aye, that He is! for He is the All-Wise Creator, But His command, when He intendeth a thing, is only that He saith unto it: Be! and it is."[Ya Sin 36:77-82] Ilaahayow Noo Naxariiso
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| | Monday, September 11, 2000 - 09:05 am I didn't deny that Islam WASN'T growing the total growth rate is greater than Christianity as a whole. The point is that both Christianity and Islam are growing. It's not like Christianity just died all of a sudden giving and gave Islam free and open leeway to grow unchallenged. I've actually took the time to read about "Christians" who converted to Islam (actually at the same link you gave me). Have you ever read about Muslims becoming Christians from different countries? http://www.answering-islam.org/Testimonies/ please read. The Bible said that God is a Spirit. He doesn't have a Bible, but he is perfectly capable of placing his Spirit within a human body and be in heaven (because of the omnipresence) at the same time. It just shows how much God loves us to live among us and give His human life for us.
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| | Monday, September 11, 2000 - 09:22 am Runta says <He doesn't have a Bible, but he is perfectly capable of placing his Spirit within a human body and be in heaven>. Oh yeah?. But aren't you forgettting THE THIRD GUY, THE HOLY SPIRIT?. Remember, WE HAVE THREE GODS DEAL HERE. GOD+JESUS+HOLY SPIRIT. I don't know if they become separate one time, AND all ONE in the other. May be, you can say and belief whatever you want. EVEN just lie about the BIBLE. Finally: MAD mac IS OUT IN THE open DECLARING HE WORSHIPS THE SON OF GOD. Where was the insistence of "I AM NOT A CHRISTIAN".?. Funny, how kidly, the forty year OLD GUY BEHAVES. PEOPLE: Runta has to YET ADMIT, HE WORSHIPS JESUS AS GOD?. I wonder, WHY he is not saying it?.
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| | Monday, September 11, 2000 - 09:22 am "I didn't deny that Islam WASN'T growing the total growth rate is greater than Christianity as a whole." that is good. "The point is that both Christianity and Islam are growing. It's not like Christianity just died all of a sudden giving and gave Islam free and open leeway to grow unchallenged." islam has always faced challenges, but it is still growing the total growth rate which is greater than Christianity as a whole as you admited. how you ever wondered how many TV and Radio Evegalical programs are there in the states promoting christianity-----while at the same time there is almost none for muslims-----still more christians are coming to islam!!!!
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| | Monday, September 11, 2000 - 09:27 am I meant to say God doesn't have a BODY (not have a Bible) I have questioned Christianity before...I was in between two different religions for a bit and I see myself as a thoughtful person...yet Jesus paying the penalty VOLUNTARILY, not forced-- for me makes sense. I don't HOPE that God loves me... I KNOW that God loves me. (He loves the world, each and every person) I have a love relationship with Him. When I pray it's not dead and dry... I love to worship Him and praise Him. I don't pray to Him 5 times a day for 5min. My prayer could last a few minutes to over an hour. I sense His presence near and have actually sensed His presence to the point where I couldn't physical stand... no lie. I love God with all my heart. It's sad to only know God from far away. Christians believe that God beckons us to come near to Him. God cares about a clean heart and spirit... since He contacts our spirit not our body. Ritual doesn't matter as much as the person has a humble and clean heart and flees from iniquity.
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| | Monday, September 11, 2000 - 09:37 am asad are you going to look at the site? Americans aren't just converting to Islam, but to Buddhism, Judaism, New Age groups (big time!), etc. as well. Does that mean that Christianity is all wrong and the New Age, Islam, Buddhism, etc. are all right? It just shows to me that because of Americans accept pluralism (something which Saudi Arabia and other Muslim countries has never allowed) all these different religions are coming out of the woodwork offering something to millions of people who grew up in a secular society that tried to get rid of God in public. And they are searching I've heard of many people talking about trying all sorts of religions and not being satisfied (even Islam)
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| | Monday, September 11, 2000 - 09:39 am "I don't HOPE that God loves me... I KNOW that God loves me. (He loves the world, each and every person)" God doesn't love each and every person. He loves those who do not reject Him. He hates people who do evil and people who setup partners with Him. He hates people who commit shirk and kufur, a people who worship a human being like jesus. "yet Jesus paying the penalty VOLUNTARILY, not forced-- for me makes sense." what penalty. children are not born with sins or did jesus paid any penalty. "I don't pray to Him 5 times a day for 5min. My prayer could last a few minutes to over an hour." even if you pray few minutes, you are praying to a human being named jesus. that is not good. that is shirk and kufur. jesus himself prayed to His maker; why don't you pray to the ONE jesus prayed to instead of praying to jesus? "
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| | Monday, September 11, 2000 - 09:43 am "asad are you going to look at the site?" i did. "Americans aren't just converting to Islam, but to Buddhism, Judaism, New Age groups (big time!), etc. as well. " from christianity, right? without all the churches and all the TV and radio evagelical programs, why are the christians running away from chrsitinty? "And they are searching I've heard of many people talking about trying all sorts of religions and not being satisfied (even Islam)" the numbers do not lie.
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| | Monday, September 11, 2000 - 09:55 am Nabad iyo Naxariis Ilaahay Korkiina Ha Ahaato Oh Dear! MAD MAC how wrong were you when you wrote these words "The Qur'an says Allah inseminates Mary." Those are your words not the Qur'an. In the Qur'an Allah Says: "And she who was chaste, therefor We breathed into her (something) of Our SPIRIT and made her and her son a token for (all) peoples." Do you remember dear MAD MAC when Allah Telling us: "Lo! the likeness of Jesus with Allah is as the likeness of Adam. He created him of dust, then He said unto him: Be! and he is." Al-Imran 3:59 Read here: "So, when I have made him (Adam) and have breathed into him of My SPIRIT, do ye fall down, prostrating yourselves unto him." [al-Hijr 15:29.14] Do you MAD MAC see the "likeness" in the creation of Adam and Jesus Peace of Allah Be Upon them……BREATHED INTO (HIM/HER) OF (MY/OUR) SPIRIT….. "Not inseminated" as you claimed dear MAD MAC. And what is SPIRIT you may ask! Hear what Allah Says: "They are asking thee concerning the SPIRIT. Say: The SPIRIT is by command of my Lord, and of knowledge ye have been vouchsafed but little." [bani Isra'il 17:85.7] And again dear MAD MAC read the story of Jesus and his Mother Peace of Allah Be Upon Them: "And she who was chaste, therefor We breathed into her (something) of Our SPIRIT and made her and her son a token for (all) peoples." "O People of the Scripture! Do not exaggerate in your religion nor utter aught concerning Allah save the truth. The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only a messenger of Allah, and His word which He conveyed unto Mary, and a SPIRIT from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers, and say not "Three" - Cease! (it is) better for you! - ALLAH IS ONLY ONE GOD. Far is it removed from His Transcendent Majesty that He should have a son. His is all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allah is sufficient as Defender. The Messiah will never scorn to be a slave unto Allah, nor will the favoured angels. Whoso scorneth His service and is proud, all such will He assemble unto Him; " [an-Nisa' 4:171-172] Ilaahayow Noo Naxariiso
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| | Monday, September 11, 2000 - 09:56 am runta, you said that both "christianity and Islam are growing----it's not like christianity just died all of a sudden giving and gave Islam free and open leeway to grow unchallenged" BUT you also said that "americans aren't just converting to Islam, but to Buddhism, Judaism, New Age groups (big time!), etc. as well." so how is it that the christians are growing like islam when you are admitting yourself that they are converting to many other faiths?
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| | Monday, September 11, 2000 - 11:12 am I'm sorry... I haven't been clear. There is a difference between your nominal, do anything I want, ignorant American who CLAIMS to be Christian and the true believers who live the life of a Christian...people who don't live like Christians and don't meet the criteria aren't Christians no matter what they call themselves. I call them "Christians" for lack of a better word. Maybe when I am talking about claimers I'll use "Christians" and when I mean true believers I will use... Christian without quotation marks. So "Christians" are converting to many different religions (as well as true Christianity) ...while Christians are growing in numbers. Even so the percentage of the combined Christian/"Christian" population is around 85% and has remained at a constant for the past ten years. Yet more and more Americans are becoming Christians. We have the key to eternal life... A life that isn't just to fulfill carnal pleasures of wine, honey, and sex. In heaven we believe that there is no marriage...that we will be too occupied with the glory and presence of the Lord. We'll join the angels in singing "Holy, Holy, Holy is the Lord God Almighty who was and who is and who is to come." That will be our pleasure. God beckons us to come to Him through Jesus.
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| | Monday, September 11, 2000 - 11:56 am "So "Christians" are converting to many different religions (as well as true Christianity) ...while Christians are growing in numbers." this is very funny. i have seen chirstians coverting to chrisinity. that is why we have the so called born again christians. "Yet more and more Americans are becoming Christians." the born again christians, right? :-) " We have the key to eternal life... A life that isn't just to fulfill carnal pleasures of wine, honey, and sex" if you are christian and if you die in the state of kufur, expect eternal life of no pleasure, no sex, no honey, no wine; expect eternal life of hell, because you worshipped someone other than Allah. people who die in the state of kufur will not taste the pleasure in the hereafter. i agree with you. "God beckons us to come to Him through Jesus." in the day of judgement, jesus will disown those who used to worship him. he will say, "i never knew you". he will tell them, we did not say to worship him. also, the devil who misled the christians will deny them and become their companion in hell. the christians will wish they worshipped God alone without a son; without a partner; they wish that they had not listen to the devil's concocted belief (trinity).
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| | Monday, September 11, 2000 - 01:01 pm Here is the account we have IN THE QURAN exposing the true STATE of those POLTYTHEISTS and ALLAH'S WARNING concerning their beleif. Whether , you will sing or not WE shall see: 5:73. They disbelieved who say: Allah is one of three (in a Trinity): for there is no god except One God. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous chastisement will befall the disbelievers among them. 74. Why turn they not to Allah, and seek His forgiveness? For Allah is Oft- forgiving, Most Merciful. 75. Christ the son of Mary was no more than a messenger; many were the messengers that passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth. They had both to eat their (daily) food. See how Allah doth make His signs clear to them; yet see in what ways they are deluded away from the truth! 76. Say: "Will you worship, besides Allah, something which hath no power either to harm or benefit you? But Allah,- He it is that heareth and knoweth all things." 77. Say: "O people of the Book! exceed not in your religion the bounds (of what is proper), trespassing beyond the truth, nor follow the vain desires of people who went wrong in times gone by,- who misled many, and strayed (themselves) from the even way.
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| | Monday, September 11, 2000 - 01:16 pm Also the disowning of JESUS in the day of judgement is told clearly in the QURAN, I hope RUNTA RETHINKS about his baseless claim that he will sing in HEAVEN: 5:116. And behold! Allah will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Did you say unto men, take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah.?" He will say: "Glory to YOU! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, YOU would indeed have known it. YOU knowe what is in my heart, I know not what is in YOURS. For YOU knowe in full all that is hidden. 117. "Never said I to them aught except what YOU did command me to say, to wit, 'Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord'; and I was a witness over them while I dwelled amongst them; when you did take me up YOU WERE the Watcher over them, and YOU are a witness to all things. 118. "If YOU do punish them, they are YOUR servant: If YOU do forgive them, YOU are the Exalted in power, the Wise." 119. Allah will say: "This is a day on which the truthful will profit from their truth: theirs are Gardens, with rivers flowing beneath,- their eternal Home: Allah well-pleased with them, and they with Allah. That is the great salvation, (the fulfillment of all desires). 120. To Allah does belong the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is therein, and it is He Who has power over all things.
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| | Monday, September 11, 2000 - 01:29 pm formerguest as much as you want to believe it... I believe in one God that can express Himself in different forms...not three separate beings. I don't have some altar full of idols and images of three separate deities. In fact, I don't know how many ways God can express Himself.
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| | Monday, September 11, 2000 - 01:33 pm Waxaa cajiiba waxa Mad Mac halkan ka sameeyo dhowrkii bilood ee aanu soo dhaafnay... ..maxaa dhowr bilood ah...sanad dheh! habeen iyo maalinba halka lagama waayo..topic kasta, section walba wuu dhexfadhiyaa isagoo...yaah.. ..saa qurunka u sayrinaya....maxaan ku dhahaa... ..nacalada afkiisa ka da'aysa.. yaah.. ..wuxu ma forumska ayuu dhexdegenyahay?.... ..waan fahmi waayey kufarkane Kulahaa somalia (Xamar) markii aan ciidanka u tagay waxaa gaal ahayd 5000 oo qof, qaar yaroo kalena 'animist' ayeey ahaayeenoo...beerka lagugu dhufay been badanaa!!
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| | Wednesday, September 13, 2000 - 10:29 pm Man, I go away for a couple of days and you guys have ben really busy on this topic. Formerguest - put down the Khat damn it!!! No more chewing before logging on. Because I defend a specific Christain thought does not make me a Christian. I defend specific Islamic thoughts too. I'm a Macist!!! Got it? Asad You are trying too hard to play the numbers game -as if because more people were converting to Islam that made it somehow more legitimate. Go back to my quote. "You don't judge •••• like this based on merit." You've got to feel what's right and what's not. Like I said, if you talk to God and he tells you Islam is the way then that's fine. And if Runta talks with God and he tells her that Christianity is the way, that's fine too. A relationship between an individual and his maker is ultimately between Allah and that individual. You have your view, she has hers, I have mine. They're all different. Maybe they're all right and maybe they're all wrong - or maybe only one of them is. But you can't solve this discussion through logic argument and math equations.
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| | Thursday, September 14, 2000 - 06:17 am "You have your view, she has hers, I have mine. They're all different. Maybe they're all right and maybe they're all wrong- or maybe only one of them is. " we have in the Qur'an a verse that says: QUL YAA AYUHAL KAAFIRUUN LAA ACBUDU MAA TACBUDUUN. WALAA ANTUN CAABIDUUNA MA ACBUD WALAA ANA CAABIDUUNA MAA ACBUD. WALAA ANA CAABIDUUNA MA ACBUD LAKUM DIINAKUM WALIYADIIN. i do not have doubt about what i beliefs; you have doubt about what your beliefs. ;-) "But you can't solve this discussion through logic argument and math equations." and you think you can solve this discussion by saying "Maybe they're all right and maybe they're all wrong- or maybe only one of them is.". why don't you just flip a coin, then for yourself? :-)
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| | Thursday, September 14, 2000 - 11:27 am Asad No I use two methods. I follow my instincts and I ask God. I know this sounds radical to you, but it works for me.
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| | Thursday, September 14, 2000 - 11:59 am "No I use two methods. I follow my instincts and I ask God. I know this sounds radical to you, but it works for me." but you still have doubts---"Maybe they're all right and maybe they're all wrong- or maybe only one of them is.". for me, i have do doubts, whatsoever. if a person says "maybe there is one God and and maybe there is no god- or maybe there is one god in three personality", there whatever his instincts or his god tells him will not be accepted. Allah only accepts clean belief without any doubts.
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| | Thursday, September 14, 2000 - 10:42 pm OF course you have doubts. You must if you are human. Doubt is the natural result of lack of proof. You have faith. Faith is necessary for something that can not be proven. IF the Qur'an could be proven the debate would be over and everyone here would be Moslem. Everyone is not. Some of the most brilliant minds in the world are not. So it can not be proven, obviously. That's not to say it is wrong. Many facts can not be proven. You're last line is the best. If that is correct we're all fucked, me you and everyone else.
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| | Friday, September 15, 2000 - 12:55 am I would like to leave with the crowd this QURANIC VERSES that are suitable for these occassion: READ WELL MAD and see our STANCE and point of view so you don't waste your time: <6:111. Even if We did send unto them angels, and the dead did speak unto them, and We gathered together all things before their very eyes, they are not the ones to believe, unless it is in Allah's Plan. But most of them ignore (the truth). 112. Likewise did We make for every Messenger an enemy,- evil ones among men and Jinns, inspiring each other with flowery discourses by way of deception. If your Lord had so willed, they would not have done it: so leave them and what they forge. 113. To such (deceit) let the hearts of those incline, who have no faith in the hereafter: let them delight in it, and let them earn from it what they may. 114. Say: "Shall I seek for judge other than Allah? - when He it is Who has sent unto you the Book, explained in detail." They know full well, to whom We have given the Book, that it has been sent down from your Lord in truth. Never be then of those who doubt. 115. The Word of your Lord does find its fulfillment in truth and in justice: None can change His Words: for He is the One who hears and knows all. 116. Were you to follow the common run of those on earth, they will lead you away from the way of Allah. They follow nothing but conjecture: they do nothing but lie. 117. Your Lord knowes best who strays from His Way: He knows best those who are rightly guided. >
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| | Friday, September 15, 2000 - 04:24 am "OF course you have doubts. You must if you are human." i told you that i have no doubts, whatsoever. "Doubt is the natural result of lack of proof." although i have never seen God in my own eyes, i have no doubt in my mind that He exists. "You have faith." and you lack faith. "Faith is necessary for something that can not be proven." if God would have shown Himself to everyone in order that people may have faith in Him, everyone would have believed. i told you that this is test we are facing. "IF the Qur'an could be proven the debate would be over and everyone here would be Moslem.Everyone is not. " there is a verse in the Qur'an that tells us when Allah created Adam and all the souls, He asked every soul. Am I not Your Lord. Every soul professed or acknowledged and said in unison YES. you say we are not on this earth for a test. I told you that every soul knows in its conscious the exists of God. The proof is there, but people reject the truth, thus, they became like you, a kufar. "Some of the most brilliant minds in the world are not. So it can not be proven, obviously. " some f the most brilliant minds in the world worship rats too. they are no different than those who worship another human being and those who deny, reject the justice of God, the creation of hell and heaven. "That's not to say it is wrong. Many facts can not be proven. You're last line is the best. If that is correct we're all fucked, me you and everyone else." not everone of us. there is a differnce between you and me. you are kufur, a rejector of the truth. Allah only accepts clean faith without any doubts. since Allah accepts only clean believe without any doubts, then He knows that people can have clean faith without any doubts. you can not blame Allah for your lack of faith. you can not blame Allah for your if you reject His justice (hell and heaven). blame yourself, don't include me with your kufur (rejection).
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| | Friday, September 15, 2000 - 08:23 am Reference your last paragragh. Of course I can blame Allah. He created me. Thus my flaws are his fault. He made me what I am. If he gave me free will to decide what I feel is correct and I choose wrongly that is his fault. He should have given me the innate information to decide correctly, or better yet, eliminate any choice at all. That I CAN choose unwisely is definately Allahs fault since he set up all the rules. You can't on the one hand say Allah is responsible for everything, that he made everything, and then absolve him of responsibility when things go bad. If Allah is all powerful then he must also be all responsible.
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| | Friday, September 15, 2000 - 09:50 am mad mac, you really made laugh this time. LOL. "If he gave me free will to decide what I feel is correct and I choose wrongly that is his fault. if Allah told you not to kill an innocent person and you become a killer, is that His fault too? i gues, hitler should also have the same stupid excuses that you are making. LOL
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| | Friday, September 15, 2000 - 10:54 am Mad. You didn't loose hope did you?. I mean, why blame ALLAH when you have the ability to decide for yourself?. You still have a chance I hope. Why don't you pray TO ALLAH to GUIDE YOU TO HIS STRAIGHT PATH instead of blaming him?. I am sure if you alone ask him GUIDANCE, HE WILL GUIDE YOU. Make sure no associates in the prayer and all will be fine(This is how many AMERICANS became muslims. They prayed hard to find the WAY). If you are sincere(Which I find hard to detect in your arguments) Allah will guide you so stop this nonsense of BLAMiNG ALLAH.
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| | Friday, September 15, 2000 - 12:46 pm aww... formerg you only believe islam because you were raised in it
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| | Friday, September 15, 2000 - 07:02 pm RUNTA. Actually RUNTA, I believe in islam because I need to have a faith that takes me closer to god with no interpretation and mediators blockading the way. Remember, I am in a free country where I can experiment and try other religions if I had doubts about islam. I am using my own intellect here with the help of ALLAH to stay firm in my beliefs in him. The more I am exposed to other cultures and beliefs, the more I understand the value of islam. I can safely say I understand islam better in these countries than I did in my own home country. Human beings have the ability to reason. They choose willingly, opposite of what MAD macist is preaching here. Tell me now RUNTA, YOU COMPARED THE QURAN WITH THE BIBLE Honestly speaking here?. Are you an evangelist and how old are you my friend?.
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| | Saturday, September 16, 2000 - 03:14 am Hi all? think about it Allah did created Everything in the universe ... so why would he need to father someone when he is the Creator when Allah wants to creat anything he says "BE" and it will be what ever he wants it to be so Allah created Both Adam and Eave without parents so why would he need to father jesus when He is too Powerfull Alaah created The Humans and Jin and the angels then why would he choose to father a humanbeing whom go to the bathroom and cannot potect it self Allah is too Good to do such a thing as a mater of fact its insult to say allah is the father of jesus, jesus is like Adam and both Alaah created them. so think about it Allah is One The Universe is One The Religion is One Human is One His message is one (Only worship allh without no partners) so U should Use your common sense that Allah does not need humans but humans do need Allah Also everything in this world that Allah created is a pair( two) Example: Man=Woman Night= day Truth=lie Human =Jin Life=Death etc.................. Bye all
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| | Sunday, September 17, 2000 - 01:55 am OK, Formerguest Runta certainly has a grain of truth in what she is saying. The overwhelming majority of Muslims on this planet were born into Islam. The overwhelming majority of people who were Christians were born into Christianity, etc. These are facts which are obvious to all. People seldom leave their religion of birth for fear of ostacism. Look at the population Group that has turned to Islam in America. It's the black Americans. Not the Chinese Americans. Not the Mexican Americans. In overwhelming numbers it's the black Americans. Why??? Because they perceive Islam as an African religion - and certainly as an anti-white and anti-west religion. Since Blacks have been marginalized in American society for so long in many aspects of life they are looking for ways to express their outrage. That's why many have these goofy names that are not really African but sound like they could be. So I wouldn't read too much into the Islamic conversion in America. We're still talking small numbers. It's not going to sweep the country. Asad Sure. Follow the logic (it's yours, not mine). If Allah is all powerful and Allah has set up all the conditions then of course what I do is his fault. Now that's only true if you believe Allah is all powerful. I don't believe that. I think there is a balance in the universe between good and evil, right and wrong. Good needs evil or it wouldn't be good. Happiness needs sadness. Thus I have come to one of two conclusions: Allah embodies both good and evil (my instincts tell me this is not true) or evil (satan?) is as strong as good - they balance each other. Allah created the origins of man but he can not or will not control human events.
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| | Sunday, September 17, 2000 - 06:00 am "Since Blacks have been marginalized in American society for so long in many aspects of life they are looking for ways to express their outrage." in other word, what you are saying is that, these blacks didn't do research intellectually about islam for themselves and decided to convert it sincerely, but they just became muslims because of what they went through in this country? "So I wouldn't read too much into the Islamic conversion in America." i don't think these african american muslims care what you think of them, mad mac. whatever made them muslims and put them the right course is their choice. they left christianity to islam because islam made sense to them. "That's why many have these goofy names that are not really African but sound like they could be" i once watched a tv movie about the african american history (roots). there was a muslim african slave by the name of kunte kinte. his christain slave master was beating this muslim african slave and was forcing him to give up his name. the name the christian slave master wanted to give his slave was tobbie. "Asad Sure. Follow the logic (it's yours, not mine). If Allah is all powerful and Allah has set up all the conditions then of course what I do is his fault." mad mac, have you ever heard what is called *take responsibility for your actions*? "I think there is a balance in the universe between good and evil, right and wrong." that is right. "Allah created the origins of man but he can not or will not control human events." Allah can do whatever He wants to, but He gave you the free will to decide what is right and what is wrong. if you kill an innocent person, Allah didn't make you a killer; if you deny His Words, He didn't make you a kufar. again, don't blame Allah for your actions.
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| | Sunday, September 17, 2000 - 12:18 pm Formerguest and Asad Mansha,allh brothers we need a borothers like you who can educate us to Islam, you really guys put a light to this page Formerguest how truthfull was, the last verses of Quran, that u post. We have the prove of those verses front of us, Subhaanalaah by any chance is any one of you Islamic teacher? I really need to study Islam whit a right sources Jazaakumulaah khayran keep up the good faith.
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| | Sunday, September 17, 2000 - 10:40 pm Anonymous Although I'm just a kufaar, I think I can assert (based on the statements from multiple Muslims) that all you need are a copy of the Hadith and a copy of the Qur'an to study Islam. Those sources are the alpha and the omega of Islam.
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| | Monday, September 18, 2000 - 05:17 am formerguest... how old do you think I am? The thing is that I was confronted with two religions not one like yourself while I was a child (the most vulnerable and impressionable) part of my life. I can really say that I am Christian because I really sought out the truth. Once you become older, you become set in your ways more than when you are young. Because you were only taught Islam mostly during your impressionable years, you became Muslim. So now that you are older you became set in your ways and it doesn't matter if there are other religions around you can see... you've already been cemented into Islam from youth.
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| | Tuesday, September 19, 2000 - 03:43 am ASLMU ALYKUM BR IN ISLAM . SOMALIAN ARE %ISLAM MY NAME IS SADAK IAM FROM GERMANY THE BRS WHO BROUGT ME IN ISLAM RELEGIN . ARE SOMALIAN THERE IS MANY SOMALIAN PEOPLE IN GERMANY . I WAS ON OF NEW NAZI'S BUT NOW I FORGET IT? ALHAMDULILAH IAM IN ISLAM SO IT IS THE BEST .....
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| | Tuesday, September 19, 2000 - 04:33 am Sadak Now there's a great rationale for you, "I am in Islam so it is the best." That's one way of looking at. Runta You say you had the advantage of being born into two religions so you really sought out the truth, unlike former guest. But you chose one of the two options presented. How much did you study the Hindu religion, or Bhudism? What about Wicca or the Norse Gods? How bout animism? Maybe none of them are right. Maybe the truth has yet to be revealed. Maybe it's not suppose to be revealed. Did you consider all of these options and way each equally before you chose Christianity?
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| | Wednesday, September 27, 2000 - 03:21 am Hey Runta Yous till out there. You didn't pick up on this thread.
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| | Wednesday, September 27, 2000 - 05:10 am Hi Mad, Yes I'm here. My point was that when comes between the Christianity/Islam debate. (You know which one is better?) I have had the opportunity to be raised (not just study...raised in a religion and researching it are different) in both which gave me more exposure and more freedom to say that I chose Christianity over ISLAM not because I was raised in it only, but rather I had opportunity to see both. I really don't consider anything beyond the Big 3... I've researched how Jesus fulfills the law and several messianic prophecies that He fulfills. I have read and know former dabblers in the occult and such... so I know I don't want to be there. It's not really a debate to me... animism and Hinduism. I could go into a detailed reason of why... but it's very involved. And a side note to what I'm discussing here.
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| | Wednesday, September 27, 2000 - 05:17 am What about Zen Bhudism??? More a philosophy than a religion but there's something to be said for it. I also find Wiccan beliefs somewhat interesting. And although the Mormons are Christians, their beliefs are divergent enough to give them their own status. I am convinced that Joseph Smith was a prophet.
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| | Wednesday, September 27, 2000 - 08:35 am "I have had the opportunity to be raised (not just study...raised in a religion and researching it are different) in both which gave me more exposure and more freedom to say that I chose Christianity over ISLAM not because I was raised in it only, but rather I had opportunity to see both." let's see what you have chosen over islam mean and if you had the opportunity to research it: "Most Christians believe that the God of the Bible is the most fair and just and most important, most loving!. Let us see how much truth this belief really holds: Only 144,000 Christians will make it to heaven. According to the Christians' Bible, out of the 1.6 billion that are living and breathing today and out of the billions that existed from 2000 years ago till now and the billions that will exist in the next perhaps thousands of years to come, only 144,000 of them will make it to heaven!. Let us look at Revelations 14:1,4 "1. Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads. 4. Those are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they kept themselves pure. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased from among men and offered as first fruits to God and the Lamb." Let us look at Revelations 7:1-8 "1. After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth to prevent any wind from blowing on the land or on the sea or on any tree. 2. Then I saw another angel coming up from the east, having the seal of the living God. He called out in a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm the land and the sea: 3. "Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God [those who did not defile themselves with women according to Revelation 14:4]." 4. Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel. 5. From the tribe of Judah 12,000 were sealed, from the tribe of Reuben 12,000, from the tribe of Gad 12,000, 6. from the tribe of Asher 12,000, from the tribe of Naphtali 12,000, from the tribe of Manasseh 12,000, 7. from the tribe of Simeon 12,000, from the tribe of Levi 12,000, from the tribe of Issachar 12,000, 8. from the tribe of Zebulun 12,000, from the tribe of Joseph 12,000, from the tribe of Benjamin 12,000." Let us elaborate more on the meanings of Revelation 14:4 and Revelation 7-1-8 to see how those men dealt with women and remained pure and will ultimately be chosen for heaven. Let us look at Matthew 5:29: "If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell." In this verse, we clearly see that the God of the Bible has IMPOSSIBLE standards, that if a person just lustfully looks at a woman (which we all do at least once in our lives!........does masturbating sound familiar to you?) even once in his life, then he will end up burning in hell fire, unless he gouges his eye(s) and throw it away, which would result him in becoming blind. So even the agony of becoming blind BY CHOICE, is much merciful than suffering the punishment of hell fire just for using the eye(s) lustfully. Please don't misunderstand me here; I am not in anyway promoting lustful acts or pornography. But it is part of men's and women's natural instincts to think about sex during and after their teenage years. And for us to be put in hell fire for eternity just for thinking about it once is quite bogus!. Especially after knowing the fact (as you will see below in this article) that the Bible that punishes deadly punishments for lust is the same book that promotes X-Rated Pornography. So Matthew 5:29 explains fully Revelations 14:4 and Revelation 7-1-8. Yes, out of the billions of Christians that existed and still exist and will exist in this world, not even 1% of them will make it to heaven!. It's that crystal clear in the Bible!. X-Rated Pornography in the Bible It's quite ironic that even in pornography, the Bible has the dumbest contradictions!. Above, we've seen from the Bible that less than a fraction of the 1% of the entire Christian population that ever existed on earth will make it to heaven, simply because of lust and women!. But yet, it's the same Bible that speaks so highly about X-Rated Pornography. Let us look at few examples, where the God supposedly inspired it and not man wrote it only by himself : Comparing the sister's breasts to the size of the towers: Let us look at the following verses: "We have a young sister, and her breasts are not yet grown. What shall we do for our sister for the day she is spoken for? (Song of Songs 8:8)" and later about the sister....."I am a wall, and my breasts are like towers. Thus I have become in his eyes like one bringing contentment. (Song of Songs 8:10)" Let us look at Proverbs 5:19 "A loving doe, a graceful deer, may her breasts satisfy you always, may you ever be captivated by her love." Let us look at Proverbs 7:18 "Come, let's drink deep of love till morning; let's enjoy ourselves with love!" Could this verse in the Bible be referring to love making and sexual intercourse "till morning"? Let us look at Song of Songs 1:13 "My lover is to me a sachet of myrrh resting between my breasts." Let us look at Song of Songs 1:16 "How handsome you are, my lover! Oh, how charming! And our bed is verdant" Could this verse meant to say "And our bed in love making is verdant"? For a detailed list on how the Bible allows brothers to sexually fantasize about their biological sisters' breasts and vaginas, and to see how the Bible speaks about penises and their growth, and to see how the Bible talks about how "round" and "tasty like wine" women's vaginas and breasts are, see my article on X-Rated Pornography in the Bible. How does Allah Almighty view Mankind in Islam? Islam is a very simple religion. Islam simply means submitting yourself in peace to the One True Living GOD. "Then Praise be to Allah, Lord of the heavens and Lord of the earth- Lord and Cherisher of all the worlds! To Him be Glory throughout the heavens and the earth: and He is Exalted in Power, Full of Wisdom!. (The Noble Quran, 45:36-37)" The GOD of Islam is the GOD of everything He created. There is no middle man between the Creation and the Creator; "We [Allah] are closer to the person than the jugular vein. (The Noble Quran, 50:16).", and "Wherever you turn, there is the face of God. (The Noble Quran, 2:109)." Allah Almighty knows what's in the heart and will judge us (all humans, Muslims and non Muslims) according to our intentions: Let us look at Noble Verses 26:88-91 "The Day whereon neither wealth nor sons will avail, But only he (will prosper) that brings to God a sound heart; to the righteous, the Garden will be brought near, and to those straying in Evil, the Fire will be placed in full view." Allah Almighty created all mankind with different races, mentality and beliefs; "O mankind! [this includes Muslims, Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, Jews, Agnostics, etc...] We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other. Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous of you. And Allah has full knowledge and is well-acquainted. (The Noble Quran, 49:13)" Throughout the Noble Quran, Allah Almighty sometimes talks directly to Muslims, to non Muslims and to all mankind (both Muslims and non Muslims). This by itself means a lot to me as a human being. It tells me that Allah Almighty's Book (The Noble Quran) is not just meant for Muslims only. Anyone can reach his Creator through Islam. It also tells me that anyone can gain the Love of Allah Almighty, which would eventually lead him to know His Creator and end up in paradise under Him; "It is He Who has Created you [humans]; and of you [humans] are some that are unbelievers, and some that are believers: And Allah sees well all that ye do. He has created the heavens and the earth in just portions, and has given you [humans] shape, and made your shapes beautiful: and to Him is the final Goal. He knows what is in the heavens and on earth; and He knows what ye conceal and what ye reveal: Allah Knows well the (secrets) of (all) hearts. (The Noble Quran, 64:2-4)" He knows well that we need Him, and that we are nothing without Him and His guidance; "O ye men! It is ye that have need of Allah: but Allah is the One free of all wants, worthy of all praise. If He so pleased, He could blot you out and bring in a new creation, Nor is that difficult for Allah. (The Noble Quran, 35:15-17)" Should a person be a Muslim first to be accepted in Paradise by Allah Almighty? Every religion in this universe started with a Prophet of GOD Almighty. Judaism started with Moses peace be upon him, Christianity started with Jesus peace be upon him and so on. Islam on the other hand did not start with Muhammad peace be upon him. It simply started with the creation of Adam peace be upon him. The minute the man of mankind was created, the beautiful religion of Allah Almighty Islam was too created for mankind. Islam is a religion that started with Adam and ended with Muhammad peace be upon them. Every religion of Allah Almighty in between such as Judaism and Christianity is part of Islam. This is very important to know, because now we can see that the people who believed in the One Living True Undivided GOD Almighty before the birth of Muhammad peace be upon him were also Muslims. It is essential to not confuse the definition of the word "Muslim". A Muslim is one who believes in the religion of Islam, and as I mentioned above, the word "Islam" means submitting yourself in peace to Allah Almighty. It is up to Allah Almighty to decide who goes to Heaven and who goes to Hell. But as we've seen in the above Noble Verses, Allah Almighty doesn't just care about our faith, but also about our good deeds and hearts. All good righteous Unitarians (those who believe in One GOD Almighty) are Muslims according to Islam. Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him taught us that faith in One GOD is the most important and fundamental principle. It is the heart of Islam and the mainspring of its power. All other beliefs, commands and laws of Islam stand firm on this foundation. All of them receive strength from this source. Take it away, and there is nothing left of Islam. Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him said: "There is no time in which the son of Adam does not remember Allah Almighty in it, except that it will be a source of regret for him on the Day of Judgement." Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him also said: "The people of Paradise will not have any regrets except for those moments in which they were not engaged in the remembrance of Allah Almighty." Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him was once asked: "What action is the most beloved to Allah Almighty? So he replied: "That you continue to keep your tongue moist with the remembrance of Allah, until you die." One of the beauties of Islam is that when an individual becomes a Unitarian, this wonderful religion of GOD (Islam) comes natural to him by the will of Allah Almighty; "...Such are among the Signs of God: He whom God, guides is rightly guided; but he whom God leaves to stray,- for him wilt thou find no protector to lead him to the Right Way. (The Noble Quran, 18:17)". It comes in such a miraculous way that it creates a direct connection between Allah Almighty and the individual; "...Allah has endeared the faith to you, Has made it beautiful in your hearts, and He Has made hateful to you unbelief, wickedness, and rebellion: such indeed are those who walk in righteousness- A grace and favour from Allah; and Allah is full of Knowledge and Wisdom. (The Noble Quran, 49:7-8)" Once that connection is created, then the new Muslim will naturally avoid unbelief and wickedness and stay in the Path of Allah Almighty. The Muslim's faith will then only increase and strengthen; "For, believers are those who, when Allah is mentioned, feel a tremor in their hearts, and when they hear His Signs rehearsed, find their faith strengthened, and put (all) their trust in their Lord. (The Noble Quran, 8:2)" and also "Say, the Holy Spirit has brought the revelation from thy Lord in Truth, in order to strengthen those who believe, and as a guide and glad tidings to Muslims. (The Noble Quran, 16:102)" and also "It is He [Allah] Who sent down tranquillity into the hearts of the believers, that they may add faith to their faith- For to Allah belong the forces of the heavens and the earth; and Allah is Full of Knowledge and Wisdom. (The Noble Quran, 48:4)" How will Allah Almighty Judge us in the Day of Judgement? Allah Almighty is quite clear in the Noble Quran about how He will judge us in the Day of Judgement. Let us look at Noble Verse 10:61 "In whatever business thou mayest be, and whatever portion thou mayest be reciting from the Quran, and whatever deed ye (mankind) may be doing, We are witnesses thereof when ye are deeply engrossed therein. Nor is hidden from thy Lord (so much as) the weight of an atom on the earth or in heaven. And not the least and not the greatest of these things but are recorded in a clear record." In this Noble Verse, we see Allah Almighty clearly describing to us that every single act even an atom of a thing we do in life from good and bad will be recorded in our records. Let us look at Noble Verse 34:3 "The unbelievers say, 'Never to us will come the Hour': Say, 'Nay! but most surely, by my Lord, it will come upon you; by Him Who knows the unseen, from Whom is not hidden the least little atom in the heavens or on earth: Nor is there anything less than that, or greater, but is in the record perspicuous.'" Here we see in this Noble Verse Allah Almighty responding to the unbelievers when they approached our beloved Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him. Allah Almighty's response was that every atom of thing they do can not be hidden and is recorded in the record perspicuous. Let us look at Noble Verse 34:22 "Say: 'Call upon other (gods) whom ye fancy, besides God: They have no power,- not the weight of an atom,- in the heavens or on earth: No (sort of) share have they therein, nor is any of them a helper to God.'" In this Noble Verse Allah Almighty claims that no god but He will do the Judgement in the Day of Judgement. All of the idols and images that people worshiped and still do will not take part of any Judgement. They will be worthless. Let us look at Noble Verses 99:7-8 "Then shall anyone who has done an atom's weight of good, see it! And anyone who has done an atom's weight of evil, shall see it." Everything we do in life will be recorded for us. For every atom of good we do in life we shall see it, and for every atom of evil we do in life we shall see it also. And Allah Almighty will ultimately make His decision on whether you will make it to heaven or will make it to hell. Conclusion I hope I was able to prove to you that the Bible is nothing but a corrupted book!. It is not a pure Word of GOD Almighty as the Noble Quran (The Muslims' Holy Scripture) is. I hope I was able to show you the real mercy of Allah Almighty in Islam, and how the corrupted Bible even offends GOD Almighty himself. Since you won't make it to heave anyway according to Christianity, do you honestly believe that Christianity is a religion worth adopting and following? Do you honestly believe that it is a valid religion of GOD Almighty? Is GOD Almighty waiting so disparately for you to make a simple slight mistake so he can burn you in hell for eternity, unless you gouge your own eye or cut your hand if any of them sin? And what's this God that claims to love us so much but yet only 144,000 out of the billions that he created will make it to heaven, and the rest will burn in hell for eternity. Is he dumb or just plain hypocrite? You judge for yourself.
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| | Wednesday, September 27, 2000 - 10:10 pm Asad You're like my mother. Last week, some guy I've never met before died. So instead of saying "remember so and so" I'd say, "well, I knew the name, but I never met him." She'd say "well, he died." No, first I get so and sos life story. She took ten minutes to give me a description of what he did for a living, who he married, how many kids they had, what the kids are doing now, etc. etc. etc. Then, when I asked mom what the point of this story was she said "Oh, he died." Now you could have taken your last paragraph here and made your point. You didn't need all the rest of that crap. You're killing me here. Told you the Bible was the verbatim word of God. Course, the Qur'an isn't either - his verbatim word isn't on the planet. But I know you don't believe that.
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| | Thursday, September 28, 2000 - 05:58 am "Now you could have taken your last paragraph here and made your point. You didn't need all the rest of that crap. You're killing me here." i didn't mean to be your mother. i'm sorry if it is difficult for you (to the point where it kills you to read what i forwarded) then don't read it, as simple as that. "Told you the Bible was the verbatim word of God. Course, the Qur'an isn't either - his verbatim word isn't on the planet. But I know you don't believe that." i agree that the Qur'an and the bible are different. the Qur'an has no corruption like the bible.
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| | Saturday, October 07, 2000 - 11:55 am Hello fellas I have spent almost a hour to read ur battle conversation here.. And Salamu calaykum to Asad. Alhamdul lilah , iam thanking god for choosing me take islam as only and true religion in this world. Second..Iam begging alah, not to me those who sell their faith for less money. I urge Madmac and Runta to take time and honesly read The holy Koran. Dont ingore Islam ,, It will save ur life from hell in life after.Take an oppurtunity to go and do in depth research about Islam. Look at facts that why so many pple are taking islam as only religion here in western hemisphere while they could remain in Kufr. Because they wanted to find the truth and take it for their sake.
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