     Muslim sis | Friday, October 13, 2000 - 09:27 am
Americans been Killed for the Sake of Jews!
YOu have been the best supporter to the Filthy Jews since this Middle east Crisis started.....and you mentoin several times that Filthy Jews are more Smarter Than Muslims.........Do,nt you thinG they are not smarter than Muslims but They are smarter than Idiot Kafirs, who have no intres in Israil yet Daying every where when ever Israil, play their dirty tricks in Phalestine? You see Mad-Caw...they Use you like a dirty, your ppl dying cuz of Them,yet you acting their Loyal (DOG WAH! WAH!)don,t you feel Idiots when you create Hatred and Enemy through the Worl.....in the Sake of Jews?
It is the Time Kafirs Think Clear and Realise, no matter what they Tried ,Israil will never be the State of Jews. and Blood shid will Conteneue until Phalestine get their own Land....what a double stander of the Kafir Policy they want give Jews other PPls blonging ,yet they want world to maintain peace! how came? |
| Side-watcher | Friday, October 13, 2000 - 02:54 pm
Americans and jews are in the same boat!
I think brother Osama told us that!
America choose this way
in order to keep the jews
in the heart of muslims.
By the way....
..I wonder what is wrong this MAD COW?
Does he/she have not a life?
No work or whatsoever?
you, A f*****g jew!
The history'll rebeat |
| Abdi | Friday, October 13, 2000 - 03:13 pm
Abdi
American is the one behind all what is happenin to the Muslims whereever they are. In Phalastine Jew oppress them in the of America, They give the money and the weopons that Isreal using to kill innocent people like children and women.
British is the one who give the land of phalatine to the jew. so British is responsible waht is happening to the inoccent Phalastians. They love when they watch from TV what is happening to those people. |
| Sweetgirl | Friday, October 13, 2000 - 05:38 pm
Mad Mac I don't believe you said the jews are smarter than us, the jews are nothing but murderers. Do you have any idea how many palestinian children they've killed, they intentionally shoot them in their upper-body area so that they do not survive, can you imagine the grieve they cause to the poor parents of those children? A little 9 year old boy was shot at the head and he's now brain dead, another twelve year old boy is lying in the hospital with a bullet in his head and his mother sitting by him waits for him to die, it just stories like this that make me wonder how could anyone with a heart take Israel's side, and your country supports them even though they claim that they're just etc etc. and here you defend them too, when you always claim to be open-minded and using your intellect to judge, so tell us aren't the jews wrong? aren't they murderers of poor inocent children??? |
| MAD MAC | Saturday, October 14, 2000 - 02:14 am
Everyone but Sweetgirl
Look, I am a professional soldier. I am not paid to think about the right or wrong of a given op, and since we quit in Somalia against that swine, Mohamed Farah Aideed, I have given up thinking about it. The Army pays me, they give me missions, I execute them. It's pretty simple. Since I haveN#t been required to deploy to Israel I haven't been required to do more than think about this from an existential viewpoint. I'm not nearly as emotional about it as you guys cause I don'T care about those people. I think they're all idiots - the Palestinians and the Israelis. Don't have the sense God gave 'em.
Sweetgirl
Little Sister (I still love your user name), I did not say Jews are smarter than you. Either you read the imposters comments or you mis-understood mine. Frankly, I haven't seen anyone in this conflict exercise a great degree of intelligence. Barak and Arafat get on TV, hurl accusations at one another, and no one profers and real advice on how to solve the problem.
I agree the IDF has used excessive force, but overwhelming force is part of their doctrine. You throw a rock at an Israeli soldier and he's going to throw a bullet back. Everyone knows that. I think that parents who allow their children to participate in riots against armed troops are irresponsible. This same thing happened to us in Somalia. Women and kids mixed in with gunmen - you end up with a lot of dead women and kids. In one case a women with a BABY in her arms fired a pistol at us during the fight on 3 October!!! I'm not making this up. Why would a mother do that??? So while I think the IDF has been heavy handed, every time I see a bunch of Palestinians on TV throwing rocks at Israeli troops I am reminded of the old saying "You play with matches, you're gonna get burned." The Palestinians who are rioting shouldn't act surprised when they get their asses shot off.
Let's just hope that Arafat and Barak can now reach an agreement that they can sell politically in to their respective populations. I'm sick of turning on CNN and watching the same old thing. Unlike you guys I don't identify with either side and I have no genuine sympathy for any of them. I appreciate the fact that the Palestinians have gotten screwed, but so have the Jews. History isn't always kind. |
| MAD MAC | Monday, October 16, 2000 - 12:11 am
Hmmmm, no responses. Guess I satisfied the query. |
| asad | Monday, October 16, 2000 - 03:15 pm
"I appreciate the fact that the Palestinians have gotten screwed, but so have the Jews. History isn't always kind"
the history of jews is full of them getting screwed. misery is their permanent national characterictis. "...and struck upon them were abasemenet and poverty. and they drew on themselves wrath from Allah. this, because they were ever disbelieving in the signs of Allah and slaying the prophets unjustly. this, because they disobeyed and were ever transgressing" 2:61.
as race, the jews as mentioned in their books are people who are adicted to greed, a special aptitude for eny-making, corruption, aversion to hark, lack of social tact and crime or objectionable act committed by any indivitual jew. horrors of jewish history, whether of remote past or recent as 1940's are well known, lamented by friends and gloated over by foes, but recognized and admitted by all. for ages, in the words of christian historian, the hebrew history has been the same everywhere in which we miss the quality of agony. and a leading jew is said to have exclaimed, if there are gradations in suffereing, israel has reached its hightest acme. certaintly, there is no history so full of mournful pathos as theirs. adn it is instructive, if also pathetic, to note tha tin the years 1938-39 with all the wealth and commerce and influence at their command, there are incessant refernces in their press to frighful persecution. and the beatings, the murders, the torture, the robbling, the blackmailing, the arrests and imprisonments and humilations, both public and private that are being perpetrated on them in several parts of civilized europe, only to turn back and do it the same things that has been done to them to others.! this persecution on the jewish by others were religious; it is pre-eminently racial and no escape was possible even after the change of faith. for we are distincly told neither baptised jews nor even christian children or grand-children of baptised jews are immune from the raging scourge. many jews in germany tried to abandon their jewish traditions, faith and usages and became entirely german, but as the official test of judaism now is not religious but racial, and as even those who have a jewish grand-parent are considered jews, they did not escape persecution by having been baptised or having became german in outlook. those jews who tried to germanise themselves (some even demonstratively repudiating their judaism are hit terribly hard, and many have committed suicide. the history of jewry is the history of human struggles. for more than two thousand years the jewish people have incessantly struggled for socail justice and self-preservation, but when it comes to palestinian people, the jewish people here are the ones perpetuating injustices. muslims saved jews many times and the jewish people found in islamic homes safe heavens, but as always, the jewish people are known to double-cross. the Qur'an is not the only book that give hints about the children of israel and their wicked ways. the Qur'an as well as their religious books are clear about their nature. Allah says they (the children of israel) turned away from worship of Allah, kindness to parents, kidred, orphans, needy; how rude they were to mankind, how they (all of them except few of them) gave up prayers and the giving of the poor-rate. Allah calls the children
of israel in that ayah and says to them after they rejected him this: "you are backsliders". even their own books say this about them: "i have seen this people (the children of israel), and behold, it is a stiffnecked people" Ex 32:9). "thou art a stiffnecked people...from the day that thou didst depart out the land of egypt, until ye came unto this place, ye have been rebellious against the Lord". the Qur'an tells us about these people: the children of israel are the people who worshipped the calf; they are the people who claimed that fire will not touch them (3: 24); they are the ones who denied the truth out of envy (2:90); they are the ones who killed their own brothers (prophets) (2:61); the children of israel are the ones made to wonder in the wilderness(5:26). since most of the israelites were rebellious people, the curse of Allah were upon them, because they were infidels and Allah curses infidels(2:89). |
| Galool | Thursday, October 26, 2000 - 10:15 am
To Mad Mac
Hey I am a Somali and I don't identify with either the Palestinians or the Israelis. Those Somalis who think that the Arabs are somehow closer to them than jews are deluding themselves(somalis are big on delusions). These two peoples live together, look like each other, share same culture and are ethnically identical-both being Semites. Those somalis who are Jew haters should remember that Jews has never done anything to harm Somalis, so why hate them? Remember what Muhammad Ali said about the Vietnamese?
Let us hope the Arabs and Jews learn to live together peacefully. |
| asad | Thursday, October 26, 2000 - 10:46 am
"Hey I am a Somali and I don't identify with either the Palestinians or the Israelis"
indentification between palestinian muslims and somali muslims is because of islamic faith. maybe you are a muslim, am i right? ;-)
"These two peoples live together, look like each other, share same culture and are ethnically identical-both being Semites."
wrong, galool. the fact is that---even-thought the palestinian and the jews people are semites and even-thought they are in that area of the world, they do not share culture.
"Those somalis who are Jew haters should remember that Jews has never done anything to harm Somalis,"
what wrong did the palestinian ever done to the somalis?
"so why hate them? Remember what Muhammad Ali said about the Vietnamese?"
muhammad ali had no identity with the vietnamese, did he? muhammad ali has identity with the muslims around the world. any muslim would hate muslims being terrorized by the israeli terrorists. ;-)
"Let us hope the Arabs and Jews learn to live together peacefully."
who are the victims and who are villains here? israeli terrorists are terrorizing palestinian people, right? |
| asad | Thursday, October 26, 2000 - 10:55 am
"Hey I am a Somali and I don't identify with either the Palestinians or the Israelis"
indentification between palestinian muslims and somali muslims is because of the islamic faith. maybe you are NOT a muslim, am i right, galool ? ;-) |
| formerguest. | Thursday, October 26, 2000 - 02:24 pm
I think GALOOL identifies with jews more than he does with the palestinians. He also expects Mad to reward him for being such an intelligent being than most somalis. Somalis are muslims who care about other islamic societies, in that case, Galool becomes an outcast and weirdo to somali culture. Congrats Galool, you won!. |
| common | Friday, October 27, 2000 - 01:02 am
Formerguest.
your post made me laugh, i think it was spot on,
Mad mac, can you please acknowledge Galool as intelligent,huh?.. whatdasay its "be nice to the native" day . Galool and..you would do well to learn what a "Arab" is, it is not defined by race but langauge.. or in case you were wondering, its not defined by mad mac either |
| common | Friday, October 27, 2000 - 01:05 am
i am slowly but definatly coming around to the view. that Galool should start losing body parts
<smile> |
| formerguest. | Friday, October 27, 2000 - 01:56 am
I hope GALOOL doesn't change his username and come back as ASHO to diss islam. |
| Hakima | Friday, October 27, 2000 - 02:26 am
formerguest....and whatz wrong with Asho!!!
are you saying women can't think & discuss things
as men do??? or something else...
please watch your words...
peace... |
| formerguest. | Friday, October 27, 2000 - 03:29 am
Hakima.
Accept my apologies sis if you were offended by the feminine part of the message. It was just an example and I should have used a man's name instead. I agree with you. take care. |
| Hakima | Friday, October 27, 2000 - 03:46 am
okay brother...
apology accepted.
peace... |
| MAD MAC | Friday, October 27, 2000 - 05:04 am
Well comrades, Galool is correct in noting the Somalis don't have a dog in this fight. You can claim the Muslim brotherhood crap all you want, but I have made the following observations:
a. All of you, and the VAST majority of your Muslim brothers and sisters, talk a good line, but when it comes to actually offering a helping hand (by fighting or otherwise) I notice all of you remain here on the net, not kicking some Israeli ass in one of those riots (OK, more likely getting killed for no positive end, but you got the idea).
b. The Saudis are RICH, RICH, RICH, with a higher stnadard of living than the average American, yet when it comes to giving up some of this wealth to their less fortunate "Muslims Brothers", well, there's where the brotherhood ends.
c. Most wars that occur that involve Muslim are with other Muslim "Brothers". This must be the Qur'anic version of tough love.
So, in fact, most of you think like Galool deep down, but on the surface don't express yourselves like him. You don't know any Palestinians, you don't relate to them, hell, most of you probably don't speak their language. None of you want to put you life at risk for them any more than I would want to for some "Christian Brother". |
| asad | Friday, October 27, 2000 - 07:57 am
"Well comrades, Galool is correct in noting the Somalis don't have a dog in this fight."
and you do? ;-)
"You can claim the Muslim brotherhood crap all you want"
and you can justify helping israeli terrorists and making excuses for terrorism all you want. ;-)
"but I have made the following observations: a. All of you, and the VAST majority of your Muslim brothers and sisters, talk a good line, but when it comes to actually offering a helping hand (by fighting or otherwise) I notice all of you remain here on the net, not kicking some Israeli ass in one of those riots (OK, more likely getting killed for no positive end, but you got the idea)."
we (muslims) are not in unity as the enemies in this fight and that is why we (the VAST majority of your Muslim brothers and sisters) can only feel pain and give moral support to the muslims who are terrorized by the isrealis with the help of the US and the west.
"b. The Saudis are RICH, RICH, RICH, with a higher stnadard of living than the average American"
well, most saudis are living a highter standard of living than any people in the world, but they are not rich. the saud family, the saudi royal family are the people you can call rich.
"yet when it comes to giving up some of this wealth to their less fortunate "Muslims Brothers", well, there's where the brotherhood ends."
the saudi royal family and those who help them (the enemy of muslims) can not be always in power. change will happen in the future. when the muslims start practicing the religion, then they will help each other both in fighting and in moral and fanincail support. when somalis and other less fortunate muslim do not hate each other and when they do not kill each other themselves and when they practice the religion, then they would not need anyone. Allah will help them. however, the muslim brotherhood never ends. if a muslim does or does not do some good things for another muslim, the brotherhood in faith does still exist.
"c. Most wars that occur that involve Muslim are with other Muslim "Brothers". This must be the Qur'anic version of tough love."
the early muslims who practiced the brotherhood in the Quran did shock the world. it is not like muslim brotherhood never existed. read the history of islam if you are ignorant about it. ;-)
"So, in fact, most of you think like Galool deep down, but on the surface don't express yourselves like him."
that is incorrect. i didn't know that you know what is in the heart of most of us. !!! ;-)
"You don't know any Palestinians, you don't relate to them, hell, most of you probably don't speak their language."
it's not about the palestinian muslims that we have identity with only. we relate with any muslim if he or she is in chechnya, in khashmir, or in palestine.... i do not have to speak in their language or to know them in person to feel the pain they feel. muslims share the pain other muslims feel. it does not matter if the pain is caused by the terrorism done by the israeli, rassian, indian or any other enemy or even the terrorism done by other not so good muslims and hypocrites killing muslims.
"None of you want to put you life at risk for them any more than I would want to for some "Christian Brother"."
if we don't practice the religion, we can not risk our lives in religious wars. the early muslims practiced the religion and risked their lives and succeeded against the enemy and helped the cause of islam and then they were able to help their weak brothers and sisters who were terrorized by the enemies of the muslims. |
| Anonymous | Friday, October 27, 2000 - 08:24 am
Hey all You
Glool=Mad-Mac...as usual he found this Somali Name to Make his stinky points.....so that he can discuss this issue more.
"So, in fact, most of you think like Galool deep down, but on the surface don't express yourselves like him. You
don't know any Palestinians, you don't relate to them, hell, most of you probably don't speak their language.
None of you want to put you life at risk for them any more than I would want to for some "Christian Brother".
We know more Palestinian than American.or rest of the Kafirs put Togather.
We speak their Language.....Most of Muslims Speak their Language..since their Language is The Quran>.
We realate to them cuz we sees them as our Blood brothers...That what all Muslims has to be... to feel each other like Blood br/sisters.
We share whit their Pain and their Joy.we cray whit them and laugh whit them.
Last, you get it wrong... yes if I get the chance I will risk my life the one of Palestine Children.
So MAd_Mac, please just stop talking about some think that you have no knowlage..I don,t expect the Kafir like you to Understand what being Muslim Means.....and how much it is affect our every day life....Althought I don,t agree many of your Opinions you can express your thoughts some issues about Trash Army Politics.......But when it Cames to Islam you are simply Lost! Do Us a favour and don,t tray so hard to understand why we feel the way we feel about Palestine......cuz unles u became Muslim you will never understand...no matter how one explain to you.
Peace All |
| Anonymous | Friday, October 27, 2000 - 08:34 am
Formerguest
Hakima said:
"are you saying women can't think & discuss things
as men do??? or something else."..
I can see once more you cross the line!
But the good thing about you you always tray to Explain what you mean and Apologize any Mistakes..That is what real Man should do.....well done to you.
But hope next time you becarefull...there is many femist around...LOL
Peace |
| Anonymous | Friday, October 27, 2000 - 08:48 am
Asad
I"f we don't practice the religion, we can not risk our lives in religious wars. the early muslims practiced the
religion and risked their lives and succeeded against the enemy and helped the cause of islam and then they
were able to help their weak brothers and sisters who were terrorized by the enemies of the muslims."
I can see you stil Scared to death a bit about going to Jihad....Why don,t you just say it Jihad is not For me!? o Matter if you Practice Islam or not As long as u are a muslim......You can,t Make all those Excuses saying I am not Going to Jihad Cuz I don,t Practice Islam! Jihad is a peart of Practising Islam.
Remember..I don,t want Create here another Argument whit is not going No where..but That is
my Opinion...and Opinion of mnay other Muslims.
Peace |
| common | Friday, October 27, 2000 - 09:19 am
i would fight
we are separated thats all, the majority of muslims in the area want to fight, people are demontstrating at the jordaian border tryna get at them pesky jews. The only thing is though i ain't never killed someone, that would be some what problematic , you know being inexperienced and all.
<smile>
Hey Mad mac would you teach me how to fight?.. i am serious, you wouldn't kill me though would you?.I mean i ain't afraid of dying, but it would be quite a silly way for me to die I figure you got experience, you can show me how to take care of myself?.. whatdathink?.. i could teach you somali in return(although my somali isn't the best). I wanted to join the army of the country i am # in for the training, but they too racist.You wouldn't kill me would you?
let me know |
| Anonymous | Friday, October 27, 2000 - 09:46 am
Common
I would fight!
Mansha,llah So Am I my br!
Glad to see brave Muslim brother..who want share the pain whit his Muslim Br/sisters...May Allah help you.
That is All we need determantion and self beleiving....I agree whit you so many Muslims want go there and Fight but they don,t have the Chance.....
I have seen many of them who saying if I get the ticket to Palestine I will go To morrow....Cuz most I know are student who have no financial Help.T
he end of the day Allah (swt)knows your Heart and if you willing to Die the Sake of Islam he will be there to help you!..I beleive....There is no Point Saying thet Well I don,t Practice Islam...so I may stay here...cuz I have Excuse no to go to JiHad......My question is any one who beleive that when He will be Muslim Enough to go to Jihad?
Peace |
| asad | Friday, October 27, 2000 - 10:35 am
"I can see you stil Scared to death a bit about going to Jihad. Why don,t you just say it Jihad is not For me!?"
if you were not scare to death about jihad, you would have gone to fight one, right? if jihad is for you, why are you here, anonymous? ;-)
"no Matter if you Practice Islam or not As long as u are a muslim. You can,t Make all those Excuses saying I am not Going to Jihad Cuz I don,t Practice Islam! Jihad is a peart of Practising Islam"
but the early muslims fought jihad after they practiced islam and they fought for the establishment of religion in the land, right? if they would have fought jihad while not practicing the religion, their jihad would not be accepted and they would not have accomplished anything, don't you agree? ;-)
"Remember..I don,t want Create here another Argument whit is not going No where"
you don't want to create argument, but you want to start one! ;-)
"but That is my Opinion...and Opinion of mnay other Muslims."
by any chance, did you read what albani wrote(his fatwa on jihad)? if you didn't let me know i'll post it for you, okay? ;-) |
| asad | Friday, October 27, 2000 - 10:51 am
"I agree whit you so many Muslims want go there and Fight but they don,t have the Chance"
what chance?
"I have seen many of them who saying if I get the ticket to Palestine I will go To morrow....Cuz most I know are student who have no financial Help."
lack of money is not what prevents people to go jihad. i have seen and heard many people who say they want to go to jihad, but in reality, they are doing lip services, just as many muslims are muslims in name only (they do not pray but they say they want to go jihad)!. this is a joke, but jihad is a serious business. if you can not even get up for fajar prayers, how can you get up for jihad (war)?
"Allah (swt)knows your Heart and if you willing to Die the Sake of Islam he will be there to help you!..I beleive. There is no Point Saying thet Well I don,t Practice Islam...so I may stay here...cuz I have Excuse no to go to JiHad. "
Allah said in the Qur'an, the help of Allah is with the muxsiniin, not the wrong doers. no practice; no help. remember the hadiis that says there was a guy who fought in jihad, but he didn't practice islam (he didn't have faith to be sincere for Allah). at the day of judegment, he will be thrown in the hell fire. ;-(. what was his point of fighting for the religion if he didn't practice the religion?
"My question is any one who beleive that when He will be Muslim Enough to go to Jihad?"
the answer is any one who believes jihad would practice islam first. financial excuse and false emotional talk while you are here is not going to help you. practice what you preach. ;-) |
| Anonymous | Friday, October 27, 2000 - 11:12 am
ASAd.
LOOOOOOOOOOOOL
"f you were not scare to death about jihad, you would have gone to fight one, right? if jihad is for you, why are
you here, anonymous? ;-)"
Althought, I am a sis and Jihad is not (Wajib)to me, If I get the opportunity I am willing to go and fight for palestine.
"lack of money is not what prevents people to go jihad."
And, yes there is many young Muslims who will go to morow if they can get financial help..cuz most are student and can,t afford any spare mony for a ticket...Can you help some of those if you better off? atleast you may get some Ajar from there since you are Scared to go ther?......LOL
Asad I stil beleive this is your Veiws about Jihad..since many Muslims including FORMERgues and Common and Many others,Agree This is a Jihad and they will go if they get the opportunity.Tel me are you the only one..who knows athe Real Islam? don,t Thisk so......So please lets say do what you like..lets all the Muslims do what they beleive....hey I am not saying u r not a Muslim here!
Pease
Peace |
| asad | Friday, October 27, 2000 - 11:27 am
"Althought, I am a sis and Jihad is not (Wajib)to me, If I get the opportunity I am willing to go and fight for palestine."
even if you were a man and went there and you fought for palestine (not for Allah and when your intention is not rule it an islamic law), that is not jihad. ;-)
"And, yes there is many young Muslims who will go to morow if they can get financial help..cuz most are student and can,t afford any spare mony for a ticket.Can you help some of those if you better off? atleast you may get some Ajar from there since you are Scared to go ther?......LOL"
that is what i heard too, but that is an excuse. i know plenty of older muslims who are willing to give the ticket money to these young muslims, but in most cases, when the money is ready, they disappear. ;-)
"Asad I stil beleive this is your Veiws about Jihad. since many Muslims including FORMERgues and Common and Many others,Agree"
what about the views of albani? did you read his fatwa? i agree with albani. ;-)
"This is a Jihad and they will go if they get the opportunity"
are you saying they can not afford the ticket money? ;-)
"Tel me are you the only one..who knows athe Real Islam? don,t Thisk so"
i don't know, but i agree with what albani and other muslim scholars said.
"So please lets say do what you like..lets all the Muslims do what they beleive."
we are all free to do what we think is right. i've no control of what others want to believe and do.
"hey I am not saying u r not a Muslim here!"
i don't even care if people think i'm not a muslim. i laugh at them. ;-) |
| Anonymous | Friday, October 27, 2000 - 11:39 am
Asad
"Idon't even care if people think i'm not a muslim. i laugh at them. ;-)"
How Can you care when you don,t even understand The meaning of JIHAD!? |
| asad | Friday, October 27, 2000 - 12:23 pm
"How Can you care"
the same way i did not care when you insulted me before. ;-)
"when you don,t even understand The meaning of JIHAD!?"
jihad has different meanings. when people do not do the jihad for their diin (their responsiblity to be practicing muslims), how can they do the jihad in wars? ;-) |
| asad | Friday, October 27, 2000 - 12:31 pm
"How Can you care when you don,t even understand The meaning of JIHAD!?"
i understand jihad the way albani explained. by the way, you didn't tell me if you read what albani said? if you have not read it, let me now---i'll post it for you, okay? |
| Hakima | Friday, October 27, 2000 - 12:54 pm
Asad,
please post it. |
| MAD MAC | Saturday, October 28, 2000 - 03:08 am
Asad
When I said Somalis don't have a dog in the fight you said "and I do?" Hell no I don't. You don't see me babbling on the net or anywhere else about how MAC is going to go over there and kick anyones ass. I think I've made it perfectly clear that I think all of these people have a screw loose. I want nothing to do with any of them. I don't know any of them, I don't want to know any of them and I don't care about any of them.
Common
Well, if you decide you want to come with MAC back to Somalia I'll teach you how to fight. I'm going to teach everyone who's on the team (not just me, I've got a few other soldiers who have spent 20 years and are therefore both experienced and financially independent). Of course I won't kill you - I consider you and the other folks here on Islam net to be friends of sorts. Why would I kill you???? That would be crazy. |
| formerguest. | Saturday, October 28, 2000 - 03:54 am
MAC.
I have this question for you MAC: Those twenty year veterans, are they somalis too?. Or just foreing legions like you who kill for the kill or for the money anyways?. Jazira is a nice place I used to play a soccer game at fridays afternoons over there. It won't be free ride for you guys. It belongs to somalis. It disturbs me that you talk about my country like a piece of land anybody can usurp. I know you said you wanted to develop but don't you think it is any government's job to do that?. You can contribute but I am thinking may be in a more secure manner and the goodwill from the people. You can't walk in there whenever you want. |
| MAD MAC | Monday, October 30, 2000 - 05:42 am
Formerguest
I guess you missed the part about I have friends there. Where do you live? America? You live in my country. You live there like it's a piece of land for the taking and at least initially likely off the largess of my taxes. Why can't I live in Jasira. I mean, I plan to by the property I want to live on, not steal it like some Mooryan. It is the governments job to develop the land, and they've done such a good job so far..... |
| common | Monday, October 30, 2000 - 08:06 am
America was built on the backs of people from our continent, your taxes loom not large in comparison |
| MAD MAC | Monday, October 30, 2000 - 08:13 am
Common
Remember your own history, it's almost as ugly as ours on this point. Where do you think your Bantu population came from???? However, I don't begrudge Somalis seeking refuge in America or anywhere else. I think Somali should be welcome there and provided reasonable assistance to make a decent new beginning. All I am saying is don't talk like a jerk when someone says he'd like to move to Somalia when you're living in that persons country. That's all. I don't disagree that Formerguest has a right to live in the states. I'm just saying that I have a right to live in Somalia too. I have friends there who have invited me to come and stay. What's wrong with that???? |
| common | Monday, October 30, 2000 - 08:41 am
Nothing wrong with that
your point taken, you are right.. less the jerk bit perhaps
and i remember our histories both mine and yours |
| MAD MAC | Tuesday, October 31, 2000 - 03:19 am
We really aren't so far apart. A few difference when it comes to divinity and the role of religion in society. You also foster a suspicion that the global economy is more centralized than I believe it is. But other than that, we aren't that far apart at all. |
| common | Tuesday, October 31, 2000 - 05:45 am
I have posts to make all over this joint, but here is a good a place to start as any.I do not "foster a supscion"that the global economy is "centralised" a word which i have never used, "conspircay theory" two word i have also never used. I have simply pointed out, the history of economics and the New world order. This is why we disagree so much. You throw wild accusations, and then move on in a completley eractic mannor. You have agreed earlier, that the market is not perfect. I don't know why you still claim i am wrong.
the rational of a "inner logic" running the global economic/political system is foolish.Economics is not a "science", that is "pure" scinece has its issues, so what makes you think economics doesn't?When i say something is wrong i prove it, here is my proof.
1.The 1000 year old thesis that you claim have been running the world economics is firtsly a incorrcet statement. Classical economic thought has seen a resurgence in in literature in the 1950/196os and in politics the late 70's early 80s, before that the state was running everything.It was state led development
2. After world war 1, wilson and his fourteen points and the gang decided that they need to be cooperation between countries in the world, economic nationalism was bad for global security, ofr this read fukiyama -the end of history 1989, and that democracies do not go to war with each other, for this read the economics laureal A.Sen
since then it has been U.S policy firstly by containment of communism and secondly by democratic enlargment, to hemogenise the whole world.If there is a inderdependance between the world,ie i grow your bannanas becasue thats what i am good at and you grow my apples, therefore everyone benefits.Hmmm are we forgeting imperalism here. Where the third world was systmematically stripped of its wealth for teh benefit of the west?. This rationale, assumes everyone is on a equal playing feild, you guys have hoards of wealth ..and know you wanna say, step up and play?..you want us to play in the NBA with two broken legs and call that fair?.is everyone equal? read Late capitalism my Emmanual, or Unequal exchange by Samir Amin don't be..to borrow the phrase a moron. Since then America has been intent To gain more "policy bang per buck"..(quote from the USAID department) there condionality on food aid loans, have succeeded in futhering there agenda.The U.S was instremental, in causing famine in Bangaladesh, by withold food aid in 1974 because they were selling juke sacks to cuba, you know how many bangladeshis died that year?.. at the height of the famine , the US came in with food "aid", which again is sold, at a discount price, not given..and secondly, you have to dump the surplus, otherwise the prices go down.I am not saying the global economic systme is centrailised, i am saying it is UNEQUAL.Do you get that. not centralised. UNEQUAL. No "Conspircay theory". UNEQUAL.The power relationships are not equal and the west uses this to their advantage, third world elites tend to do this and siphon off riddicoulous amounts of money, it is a happy partnership..and for all their cries of corruption, the west are perefectly happy with it. Venom has a heirarchy. Willyou avoid this again and accuse me of being a raving left loonie?Some of the succuess America claim food aid contributed to include camp david agreeemnet. Also and i quote food aid conditions have given US embassies in various parts of the world the right to and i quote "kick ass" when things don't go the way they want.Reminds me of your dumb friend "saying don't feel sorry for us, feel sorry for them casue we kicked ass"..ehhh ummm okay bart simpson..and you say we as muslims are arrogant? Ya Allah (swt)
With regrads to multi lateral agencies, you have mentioned them in the other areas so i will respond there to maintain clarity.
With regards to Divinity and the role of religion in society, the west has a civil religion, highly involved in society and is loosely , very loosely based on christinaity.If it functions like a religion, what are you objecting to the actual naming of the religion. Basically what you are saying is don't tell me what you are doing, ignorance is bliss, and i will stick with my best of a bad bunch idea.If it looks like a duck, talks like a duck and quaks like a duck call it a democracy? interestingly though very time there is a crisis in America, Clinton is pictured coming out of the church with a bible in his hand, it never fails <smile>
(for a recent example that school shooting spate in columbus) |
| MAD MAC | Tuesday, October 31, 2000 - 09:15 am
I told you we weren't that far apart. Except for calling Randy Ramaglia dumb. Of course we're a little arrogant. We do kick ass. We're professional soldiers and we're proud of our abilities.
But as for your theory that the third world is starting from an unequal playing field you're absolutely right. Life is unfair. No two things in this world start with an equal chance. Guess what, that's not going to change. Somalia is not going to get a sudden infusion of wealth (which Somali leaders would likely steal anyway) from the West. They are going to have to figure out how to climb up. I'll be the first to admit this. Bitching about it ain't going to make it any better. We need to figure out a way to make •••• happen, not complain about the way things SHOULD be. Did colonialism make things tough? Damn right. So???? We need to plan for the future, not lament the past.
And you're wrong about socialism. I have a friend who was in the NVA (East German Army). He's now in the Bundheswehr and I asked him about the difference. Before 1991 he couldn't afford anything. No vacations, no TV, no car, no nothing. Then he changed armies and now he feels like a rich man. The reason socialism crashed is because the Russians were borrowing on the future until the check came due and they couldn't cash it. Their economic system came apart. Can't blame the West for that since we had nothing to do with their economy which was relatively closed. And if we did have something to do with it, that proves our system was stronger. Either way, the socialist system demonstrably sucked. As for Cuba, they do not have the best health care system in the world (I don't know where you got that from). They can't even afford modern medical equipment. They have a decent school system, but after that it's all down hill. |
| common | Tuesday, October 31, 2000 - 09:55 am
i do not "bitch". i do not even go in the vicinity of such obsecnity 
you have in the space of a week, called me a whiner, a conspiracy theorist, someone who "bitchs" , a dumb kid,. This is not ojective critism of my arguements, it is fattering though.If you started to compliment me i would be worried..galool you in trouble boy<smile>. Hey while we here, the dude sitting next to me is writing a email and he has written "i took ten pills this weekend", Ya Allah Ten!
we pray to remember ,they drink, take pills , chew khat, to forget..there is a big difference
yeah not too far apart, you call formerguest a jerk, i call randy dumb, swings and roundabouts
I am not lamenting, just pointing out.The reason for pointing out? insertion into a economic system that is unequal, will mean the rich get richer and the poor get poorera situation which has been happening for the past 30 years ,i don't care if the rich get richer, i am worried about the poorer getting pooer, if they can manage to find ways of getting richer, which doesn't equal misery for africans, i would not "lament".. boy are you lucky you are a proffesional solider and not my age..me and you would have had some serious beef growing up in the same neighbourhood.
.Surely you don't advocate further insertion into this economic world system, i agree it is fairly inextriable, in this unipolar world, its all we got to work with, but hey lets not say things like "SO?????"..that smacks of get of your ass and stop whinning you unproductive lazy backward african, which makes my little somali blood boil.
Tsjistan is just one of the countries in the former soviet block facing famine this year. Eastern europe is in a complete mess, don't tell me i'm wrong. Of course your friend in Germany is gonna have a pay rise west germany,now germany is one of the richest countries in europe.
medical equipment in cuba?..try U.S emargoes, Cuban doctors are the best trained in Latin America for sure.
For all your talk about there being no "good guys and bad guys" and your rhetoric about being a jaded learned individual, you pretty anti socialist. I don't mind but tell me now why there should be any need to privitise a succesfully running nationalised company?, is there no corruption in business?.<looking at you sternly> Do all businesses make a profit?..<shaking my head> nope, so why on earth do you need to privitise a successfully run national business?,< and rasing my eyebrows> unless there is a agenda invloved, i mean sure privitise a ailing state run business, but a successful one?..i smell a rat.
i can't blame the United states for the demise of the soviet union.lol.? |
| MAD MAC | Wednesday, November 01, 2000 - 12:06 am
Because nationlised companies almost never are profit making. You need to spend some time in these countries. When I was living in Bosnia there were all sorts of companies owned by the state (a hold-over from the communist era). None of them were operating at a profit and none of them ever had. They were subsidized by the State. That's what led to the economic slide which is what led to the political slide and the subsequent war. Why do you think Russia came apart - because Gorbachev was a dumb ass? That wasn't it. Look at North Korea? The reason I cite the East German example was because here was a man doing exactly the same job and in a socialist German state he was earning just above the poverty line (below it by Western Standards), but he moves to a capitilist state and suddenly his wages increase 10 fold. Believe me, if you let the government run things, the more they run them, the more they screw them up. That is why I'm a fan of the free market.
Now, as for rebuilding the Somali economy, what's your plan? It's easy to point out flaws in something, but doing something better yourself well that's another ballgame. I have a plan. It'S really quite simple. We keep tax rates low, we maintain social stability, we lay the seeds for healthy investment. We encourage foreign business companies to invest (sure they take some of their profit out of country - in exchange for which we take no business risk that the venture will fail, and a portion of our population is employed, bringing additional hard currency into the country. If we want to estblish a minimum wage we must provide incentive for business to accept that vice going someplace without one. One example would be a well educated populace. A well educated labor force is far more productive than an uneducated one. So stability and education, in my mind, our the keys for our success. That's why I say Somalia must halt their irredentist rhetoric. They must focus on development. Perhaps it would also be possible to establish a Horn of Africa trade and investment agreement (sort of the NAFTA of the Horn). Lastly, I have reason to believe Somalia has untapped oil. If the reserves are significant, then Somalia could use this revenue to regenerate infrastructure. I have this idea of a modern railroad running from Mogadischu to Addis with stops all along the way (the towns along the Webi Shebelli) transporting goods from the port to all the towns on the route, not to mention passengers. Perhaps another smaller line running from Kismayo to Luuq. But that would have to be long term. In the short term, what I laid out below would be a short term solution to the problem. Why don't you do some research, examine the pitfalls and right a paper on Somali economic recovery and the policies the new government should follow. Do a good job you get an A and you can help the new government start setting its policies. They need all the help they can get. Most of them are graft artists vice economic theorists. |
| common | Wednesday, November 01, 2000 - 08:21 am
"its easy to point the flaws in something"
there's a chinese proverb that says it is better to light a candle than to curse the darkness, i agree brother, but does the paitent ever get better without a diagnoisis first?
foreign business, would only be enouraged by stupededously low taxes and little restrictions on them, they really ain't worth the hassle, besides i told you, no one is playing that game with sub saharan Africa.
Your right i am short on practical solutions economical for somalia...
stability is good, education is good, i don't disagree with your aims, but question your methods of getting there, but then again your right, i don't have much to offer |
| MAD MAC | Wednesday, November 01, 2000 - 09:50 pm
Common
Well you seem like a smart guy, with lots of enthusiasm to boot. Think it through. I mean, since I left Somalia in 1994 I haven't done much else but think about this problem (when I haven't been forced to think about Haitis problems and Bosnias problems and Kosovos problems that is). So far this is where I'm at. Just because there hasn't been a lot of business investment to date doesn't mean there can't be any in the future. It's just a question of selling the product. What does Somalia have? It lies right on the middle of GREAT trade routes. Trade East / trade west. Location, location, location. Secondly, it has a magnificent climate without cyclones and crap like that. If we add stability and an educted population to the mix, we're golden. The tax rate dosn't have to be ridiculously low, simply lower than the ridiculously high European tax rates. As long as you have those last two selling points, educated work force and stability, you can lure business ahead of other Sub-Saharan African countries. Then, of course, there are some very wealthy Somalis who could invest there if they felt comfortable that Somalia had a future. Hell, some are doing that now even in the current climate. Anyway, start thinking the problem through. We've only got a few years left before we head there. While I'm at it, what city do you live in? |
| common | Thursday, November 02, 2000 - 05:53 am
Mad
I enjoyed reading the word "almost" when you refered to state run business never being proitabily.. a token gesture of agreement, the British have been killed by the hundreds in the years since british rail was privitaised.lol.. they are so upset.. "profits before safty" read the headlines, well what did you expect?. Anyway i do not wish to give you a headache, you have your orders on the way to develop a country. Yes Sir! , On the double Sir!, Private investment Sir!, Small army Sir!.
How bout a army which is huge ,proffesionalised and deals with external enemies not internal suppression, how about a army that is strong and Lloyal to the governemnt ,not a high standard of living , power and tin pot leaders?..
how bout a repbulic that acts like a valient sheepdog in the face in the face of external wolves and doesn't act like a wolve to its own population.
Mad mac you honestly do not fully appraciate how many fears i harbour about you.... i live on the coast |
