     Historian | Monday, March 19, 2001 - 03:00 pm
Well, well well. The civil war changed Somalia's political and class landscape. Like any other revolution, this change change in Somalia has its winners and losers.
Winners:
1- Isaaq:
This tribe is one on of the largest in Somalia and has a great history of being one of Somalia's elite tribes. Although their history is shiny prior to Siad Barre, they were dominated and oppressed by the military dictatorship of Siad Barre who came from darood tribe. After Siad's downfall, this tribe formed Somaliland and enjoyed a relative peace and economic growth over the course of the past decade or so. Somaliland is well and prospering.
2- Majerten:
Another elite tribe who was the center of Somalia's political arena for a long time. Like the Isaq tribe, Majerten suffered a lot under Siad Barre's regime. Like the Isaq tribe, Majerten now control a very large portion of the country with laws, regulations, peace and a functioning government.
3- Habar Gedir:
Unlike the above two tribes, Habargedir's success came in the 1990s and rose vertically. again, unlike the above two tribes, Habargedir people left their ancestral dry and rough land and started to inhabit Somalia's bread basket region known as "the two rivers". Habargedir people now control much of Somalia's economy, including large cities such as Kismayo and Marka. they also control most of Mogadishu. Not only do they control somalia's economy, the new interim government is also headed by Habargedir.
Losers:
1- Marehan:
Anyone who grew in Somalia in the eighties remembers how this nomadic tribe transformed into a very powerful kingdom. some historians say that Marehan people were camel herders who were implanted in big cities such as Mogadishu by their leader Mohamed Siad barre. They enjoyed very long 30 years of using national property illegally. They looted Somalia's national asset and anyone who tried to stop them was either killed or arrested. it was a ruthless kingdom. Every good thing must end one day. Now, that once powerful tribe in disarray and its people who lived in luxury are getting hard time adjusting their lives in the diaspora or in refugee camps.
Abgaal:
This is one of the largest Somali tribes who inhabit greater Mogadishu area. Lack of good leadership and clear vision made Abgal one of the poorest tribes in Somalia. Their strong hold is North Mogadishu where standard of living is much inferior to south Mogadishu which is controlled by Habar Gedir.
Lose/Win situation:
1- Maymay. This pastoral tribe was the center of Somalia's man made famine in early 1990s. The capital of the region was nicknamed "The Death City" by western journalists who showed the world how a man made famine could devastate people. This famine triggered the American Invasion. Things are improving now, this tribe's armed faction worked with Ethiopia to regain lost land to habargedir and now controls much of its land.
Over all, every Somali person is a loser in one way or another in this civil war. Darood tribe was was subjected to an ethnic cleansing which included rape and killing by Hawiye in the early days of the civil war. But the most killing took place when Habargedir started to use farce against other hawiye clans such as Hawadle, Murursade and Abgal.
Winner Cities:
From Galkacyo to Borama - These cities started to rebuild soon after the civil war erupted in the capital.
Bigest Lose cities:
Kismayo - This beautiful port city was once Somalia's pearl but now, almost every somali you see claims that his/her clan is the legitimate owner. Dir/Shiikhaal/maymay/ogaden/habargeir/Majerten/Dhulbahante/Marexan and so many other tribes claim the city. The city changes hands frequently and now is controlled by Habargedir. |
| non-historian | Tuesday, March 20, 2001 - 12:16 pm
I don't think you know anything about Somalia; all you know is what some one else told you. That's how one tribe is different from another. There isn't such a loser and winner situations. Besides people are trying to recover from long 10 years plus of beating each other for no reason.
Don't you see no one want to talk about what you wrote becuase they know you are one of those people who never learned from their mistakes. In my opinion, Somalis may be losers but remember most of the times losers becomes winners; therefore, they will become winners in the future.
In the meantime, even childen know what had happen ed during the civil war so who you trying to be their historian anyway. Although some of us maybe small at the time, they all understood what destroyed their beuatiful nation once called Somalia. If you are historian, how come you didn't include any events taken place before 1990s? At least, many people would consider you historian as you claim if you tell us Somali previous History, independenced Day and so on.
Let me tell you something, Somali soceity understand their long struggle of what so called tribal degrate system and today it has no room anywhere except those who still recall and can't get over it. We learn other people cultures, and histories rather than our own becuase it seem to be empty for the last 10 years.
Goodbye |
| JAMAMA | Tuesday, March 20, 2001 - 04:58 pm
HEY LISTEN •••••• "HISTORIAN" - IN THIS CASE YOU'RE THE WEAKEST AND THE BIGGEST LOOOOOOSER I'VE EVER CAME ACROSS ON THE NET!!! AND IF SOMEBODY WINS AN OSCAR YOU'LL WIN THE WORST CATEGORY. SHAME ON YOU - YOU FREAKEN LOSER!!! YOU'RE PROBABLY COLLECTING WELFARE ONE OF THESE GODDAMN COUNTRIES (EUROPE/NORTH AMERICA) - YOU FREAKEN BASTARD!!! DON'T YOU HAVE A BETTER THING TO DEBATE OR TALK THAN CATEGORISING THOSE FREAKING GODDAMN TRIBES. GET A LIFE ONCE FOR ALL AND INSTEAD OF TALKING WHO'S WINNING OR LOSING WHY DON'T YOU READ OR WORK AND ATLEAST DO SOMETHING GOOD WITH YOUR LIFE YOU FREAKING PSYCHO!!!! WAKE UP YOU MORON AND KEEP THESE GODDAMN INHUMANE VIEWS OF YOURS AWAY FROM US~ WHAT A LOSER!!!! I HOPE I DON'T DEAL WITH YOU ANYMORE ••••••~ |
| marcos | Tuesday, March 20, 2001 - 06:35 pm
Somalis, don't you know that history is history and you cannot change it no matter how had you try to hide it. You may all hate Somalia's ugly past but the truth is that Somalia is f'ed up real bad. |
| Husein | Tuesday, March 20, 2001 - 07:13 pm
1990 BIGGEST SOMALI CIVELWAR OCUR BETWEEN HAWIYE AND DAAROOD NOT ONLY THAT BUT HABARGIDIR WAS THE ONLY ONE WHO WAS DOING THE UGLIEST THINGS LIKE ETHNIC CLEANSING, RAPE, TORTURE, IN DAAROOD BUT THE REST OF HAWIYE WERE NOT DOING THAT,
AS A HAWIYE TRIBE WE ASKED WHY HABARGIDIR IS SO MEAN TO DAAROOD AND WHY IS TORTURE, ETHNIC CLEANSING, AND RAPE BUT I THINK WE GET THE ANSWER,
LONG TIME AGO HABARGIDIR WAS COLONISED BY MAJEERTEEN BECAUSE THEY WERE LIVED BY THE SAME REGION IN MUDUG AND SINCE THAT TIME HABARGIDIR
NEVER FORGET THAT
AND THAT IS THE REASON HABARGIDIR DID WHAT THEY CALL REVENGE,
AS A HAWIYE GUY I AM SORRY WATH EVER HAPPING TO DAAROOD AND OUR COUNTRY AND I HOPE SOMALIS WILL LOVE EACH OTHER AS WE WERE ELEVEN YEARS AGO. |
| Governo | Tuesday, March 20, 2001 - 07:38 pm
Mr historian
I wish the fouding fathers of Somalia had strategies its citizens away from tribal loyalty and if they knew it will bring one day the death of the republic of Somalia , they would act differently..and if you think this evil practice of tribalims will save long run Somaliland ,Puntland and others who practice you deadly wrong and short viewed....learn that mistake from the founding fathers of Somalia? |
| Somaali | Tuesday, March 20, 2001 - 08:20 pm
Mr Husein who ever you are Drood or Hawiye you hooyaddii wase ...and if Majerteen colonize any one they colonized their own Ali saleeban....and Habar Gidir were after power and Siyad barre forces ...and never harm any civilian ,,and the people who went through these tragedy know people who did those ugly incidents.....Habar Gidir save and helped Drood in Mogadishu more than any other Hawiye Tribe...and that is facts...and if you hiding shadow yourself the truth always will prevail.....and like any other tribe Habar Gidir has its bad ones and good people......dadka aad isku diraysidna joogi maqnuud baad tahay....adigoo kalena waaye waxay Somaali la hormari la'dahay Eeeyahow.. |
| Anonymous | Wednesday, March 21, 2001 - 01:14 pm
Well, it seems Hisorian missed some of his history classes. Anything he said did not make sense at all. But this is for Husein, if you think it was HabarGidir that committed the most atrocities against Darood, you are mistaken brother. As a matter of fact, Habar Gidir did the least damage. Being a Darod, I have no problem with the Habar-Gidir as they faught as real men and lost as real men when they tried to take some Darod cities. The people who committed the most cruel and untraditional crimes were Abgaal, Murursada and Xawaadle. To me, I can talk to, relate to and deal with the Habar-Gidir people but not the Cawaans like the Abgaal who, despite the fact that they were the ones who benefited the previous regime as their city was made the number one city in the country, carried out unseen murders and rapes against innocent people. And thanks for the Habar-Gidir, whatever they have done to the defenceless civilians were done to them by the Habar-Gidir Moryaan.
Peace out |
| Historian | Wednesday, March 21, 2001 - 01:16 pm
My friends, I never said, any somali is better than the other. However, I highlighted historical events which took place. The point I made is that Somalia's civil war shook the nation and changed it in every way possible. here's one prime example, more majertens liver in Mogadishu than Galkayo and Boosaaso before the civil war but now Majertens and all other daroods combined are minority in Mogadishu. I am not saying that they were bad people but that's the fact on the ground. Also, Habargedir people emmigrated from galkayo, Dhusmareb and other cities to the south.
Whatever their motives are Habargedir people are somalia's new elite family. You may argue that Isaqs and Majertens made up their minds and started to go ahead with their lives without the rest of the country.
When I said winners/losers, I didn't mean the good and the bad but I based my findings on the reality.
Husein, the biggest civil war happened between Habargedir/Abgaal in terms of death and destruction. You are also wrong about the rape comments you made. History is history and we cannot deny the truth. Most victims darood/non daarood were raped by Abgaal nomads. While abgaal youth were preoccupied by their intention of raping as many light skin women as possible, Habargedir was building an empire. |
| ayaan | Wednesday, March 21, 2001 - 02:11 pm
waan kugu raacsanahay huseen walaal
habargidir siduu majeerten ugali jirey oo u cadaabi jirey oo uu wabiyada meedkooda uu ugu guri jirey kadibna siyaad bare baa misana gacan ku siin jirey majeerteen iney gumaadaan habargidir
huseen waxaad tahay nin taariiq ogaal ah
sababtaasbey dhamaan daarooke oo dhan looga sheegtey habargidir aa ugu xumeed qabiilka hawiye uguna xaasisaneed hawiye oo kufsanjirtey,naagaha kadibna dili jirtey oo xataa maxaabiista daarood oo aan waxba sameen xataa dili jirtey sababla,aan
waxay habargidir ka aheed aarsasho. SOOMAALINA MA,MOOGO, |
| Southern-Guy | Wednesday, March 21, 2001 - 08:47 pm
Based on your irrelevent history you never told us what happened in Somaliland!. Many people haven't noticed your biased statements about the Isaqs. Why didn't you mention the Four thousand people who have been killed and raped in between Hargeisa and burco?. Why didn't you tell us how Habaryonis butchered the poor civilian people of Habarjecla?. Historian, you are hiding many things that happened in North-West of Somalia. You getta know that we are Somalians, and we know what has happened our Country as a fact. Are you telling us what happened in our Cities? damn, I have never seen a dummy like you who is trying to make Fame the people who claimed that they were "British"-> ISAQS . I have never seen such a people in my life time. Historian, I'm a Hawiye, and do not tell me what happened within the subclan of my Hawiye Tribe . Thus, if you want to discuss these topics, firstly, make yours very determined and don't hide the Cigal's poor leadership in 60's, and the how he is dictating NOW in AWDAL!. I have a question for you. Could you please give us some of the facts of ethnic cleansing and killings that happened in North-West in the last 10 years. Whose tribe won the leadership among the ISAQS? Habaryonis-->> Tuur, Habarawal-->Cigaal and Habarjecla-->>??. I have heard that habarjecla are the LEGS of ISAQS (Lack of leadership..Moryans), Habar-awal are the heart of ISAQS(Elites...Cowards), and Habar-yonis are the Brains of ISAQS(majority of ISAQS with no Funds). Please, give us some meaningful words whom we can call it "UNBIASED HISTORY"
Southern-Guy |
| non-historian | Thursday, March 22, 2001 - 07:27 am
Sallaan
Waar horta Somalia ma sadex reer baa leh; waa kanoo intiina badaniba ka hadashe REER Reer. Inkasatoon aad ugu xumaadey ninkani wuxuu soo qorey hadana maba ehi kuwa uu looserka ku sheegey.
Laakiin waxaan jeclaan lahaa inaad taariikhdii hore nooga sheekaysaan hadii aad waxka taqaanaan. Rutii Somalinet ku maaha meeshayda waxaan ahey baan u maleynayaa Ninka Ugu neceb Qabiilka sheekaynta.
Miyaaynaad ogayn in uu qabiil kulkii naga soo burburiyey. Marlabaad na murburinmaayo Insha'Allah. |
| Proud 2 be South | Thursday, March 22, 2001 - 10:54 am
To: southeren guy
well done bro, first of all as a southern or better to be say hawiyye, we don't have to deal or get nothing to do with isaaq ppl, first of all they don't know the word " appreciation" if u think u win the war with siyad regime u wrong, u won nothing, onother 20 years u would be killed and raped ur woman if we didnot help u, plus remember it's hawiyye who has the main power; economically and milatery, so u better understand who u giving ur big mouth, we r hustlers.
i'm out like |
| Historian | Thursday, March 22, 2001 - 12:43 pm
Mr. South, thank you very much! You are a prime example of a Somali brain at work! I mentioned some factual events that took place in Somalia and you labeled me as Isaaq. You are like a person who said that Sheik must be Daarod because he said it is Haram to rape darood women. I would be more than happy to put in my two cents about somaliland/Isaq people had you asked me politely.
Bias doesn't mean "not talking much about certain people" it means favor some over others. It is true that Isaq/majerten domitated somalia's political history. coincidentally, it is also true that there are governments and peace in the north while the south is in chaos. does that make me pro Isaq?
If you have some factual events that implicate somaliland/Puntland as ruthless as the southern warlords, why didn't you share with us instead of shooting the messenger. We are all here to learn from one another. Tell us what you know about the north. |
| Wacaysle | Thursday, March 22, 2001 - 01:42 pm
Mr Historian
adiga ayaa u baahan in aad taariikhda Somaaliya dib ugu noqotid ...intaan koofur iyo Waqooyi isku darsamin dhinaca koofur xukuumu daakhiliyadda Abdullahi Isse ayuu ahaa ninkii madaxda u noqday markkii Xorinimadda la qaatayna ...da'diisa ayaaa ka yarayd...markii koofur iyo waqooyi isku darsammeena Adan Abdulle ayaa madax ahaa ...afar sano ka dibna Abdirasheed Sharmarke ayaa madaxwayne noqday ,ma og tahay sababta majeerteen u dilay...waayo Sacad ayaa wata aayey ka caroodeen 1969 ilaa 1990..afwayne ayaa waddanka ka talinayey marka majeerteenka iyo Isaaqa aad sheegayso way ugu hadal badan yihiin Somaalidda ee wax xukun dheeraad ah ay qabteen ii sheeg... |
| HODAN | Thursday, March 22, 2001 - 02:50 pm
I think Mr Historian has some points..LOL I agree with him on many things... After all no name calling is needed. |
| SSOMALILANDBOY | Thursday, March 22, 2001 - 08:16 pm
YOU SOUTHERN GAY .........LOL U DONT KONW NOTHING ABOUT ISSAQ SO DONT SAY ANY THING ABOUT YOUR MASTERS.IF ISAAQ FOUGHT EACH OTHER THAT IS OVER NOW OPEN YOUR EYES AND WATCH THE TVs AIGHT?????
YOU ARE THE MOST STUPID LIER THAT I EVER SEEN I MEAN READ HIS WORDS. WARYAA REERKIINA GAAJOONAYA ARSAAQ OO IDIR LACAGTA CAYDHA HADIIKALE ANGA IDIN ARSAAQI EE NABARYA.........
LONG LIVE SOMALILAND |
| JAMAMA | Thursday, March 22, 2001 - 10:12 pm
NO, YOU'RE TOTALLY WRONG "HISTORIAN & HODAN" !!! BUT, KEEP COLLECTING YOUR GODDAMN WELFARE IN THESE WESTERN COUNTRIES BECAUSE THE TIME HAS COME THAT WE DON'T HAVE TO DEAL SUCH AN IGNORANT, MEAN AND CRUEL THAT LOVE TO CATEGORIES SOMALIA LIKE THAT. PLEASE, DON'T SHARE YOUR UNACCEPTABLE VIEWS. I'M ABOUT TO THROW UP -AAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!
ONE THING I KNOW IS YOU WRITE DAMN UGLY THINGS ON THIS NET BUT I WONDER IF YOU LOOK LIKE WHAT YOU WRITE? JUST WONDERING CUZ UGLY PEOPLE SAY UGLY THINGS IN LIFE!!!! DO ME A FAVOR YOU TWO UGLY ONCE STOP SEGRAGATING OR HATING PEOPLE. AND I BEG YOU TONS YOU SO CALLED "HISTORIAN" YOU ARE NO HISTORIAN BECAUSE YOU'RE A FULL OF S.!!! |
| Awdal | Friday, March 23, 2001 - 05:36 am
Speaking of tribes, think again. While the entire world moving forward, you argued just these things as follow:
1. There are no other Somalis exsisted but Isaaq, Hawiye and Darood. That's what they said, forget it.
2. Others want to created Reer Wogooyiland versus Reer Koonfurland so they can break up the nation.
3. Let an Awdal individual takes controll Somalia's future.
4. whatever we do it all come down to "MY TRIBE IS STRONGER THANT YOURS" or my is better.
5. Worst of all, here they talk about who won or lost the war. What war you juckies, it was single family fighting for nothing.
6. If you open your eyes to the world, you would talk trash and you would thing Somalis as a family.
7. Although some of the fighting within the family may be bad, the family will always need to support eachother. |
| Hudo | Friday, March 23, 2001 - 09:17 am
Mr Historain
You claimed to be fair and stating fact but let me ask you. Is the facts what you want to beleive? whatver qabiil you are you must understand that somalis equellly benefited from the regime for the first 7 or8 years. poeple learnt somale, moved to cities, many children ( boys and girls ) went school, as a result somalia became a a growing African country. that was not specific to Marehan or daarods. At the time Siyad Barre and his governers came to the power, very few poeple were going to schools.
Then we went war with ethopia and Siayad Barre's internal enemy took advantage of that. from there we went bad.
The somali clans you stated existed by name and only few of them were ruling. Mostly, they were clan leaders who had come to known because of that. Are you then saying there is a somali clan who did not ahve that clan leaders?
Nb I am not saying the government was good, indeed , I think, from that time it was very bad one.
I learnt all that and came to my honest judgement.
Wabilahe tawfiiq
your's sister Hudo |
| Southern-Guy | Friday, March 23, 2001 - 07:20 pm
Historian,
As our Somalian proverb says "He who has praised himself is like she-goat that sucked itself, indeed, your statements were merely like that. Infact, I know the civil-war that happened among the Somalian tribes. I didn't claim as a "Historian", and infact, If I would claim, I wouldn't be biased the true history that has occured among our people. What makes me angry, was merely the propaganda and the fictions that you created as an envoy of your mother-land (Somali-land). Historian, I'm a true Somalian, wether you could stamp me generally as a Southern-guy, and specially as a Hawiye. Unlike the other people ain't biased or favored to one special group as you stated earlier. The only thing that I wanted to tell you was that you are the one who claimed as a historian, and quiet frankly denied the true losers among the Somalian community. As a fact, you must know firstly, who has the most recognized Government among the Somali province?!.
Don't you know that we as a (Southern province) are the most important province among the whole Somali-Community. We never brought our flag to the North-West or somewhere else. You as a Somali-landers, came to us on 26 july,in 1960s. As the history will tell, you Somali-landers will bring your flag back to where it belongs. By the way, I don't want to infrom you what has happened in North-West Somalia, and I really mean it. One thing I know is, that no tribe could be better than any other. Infact, all Somalian people are same. In that case, Isaqs killed and raped each-other as any other Somalian tribe. If you ask me to mention that, I will write down in my next statements, eventhough it will set back a "Fire".
NP: Historian, if all Isaqs are one, you getta know that all "Hawiyes are same" . That is my whole issue. And remember, no hawiye subclan can ever be LOSER.
Southern-Guy |
| Historian | Saturday, March 24, 2001 - 12:33 pm
Huda, Siad barre was a ruthless dictator but I don't blame him. The whole world was ruled by his kind at that time. He was one of the third world rulers. He shifted from communism to one-man-rule kingdom.
Awdal, The world is composed of nations, different ethnic racial groups. Africa is in this ruins today because it left its tradition that was based on bribe and never full took the western lifestyle which is based on capitalism and who has what. back to the subject, you are right, I talked about few tribes but that doesn't necessarily mean Somalia is inhabited by the handful tribes that I mentioned in my original article. Allah talked about tribes in his holly Kitab many times and Africans have lived in in tribal life thousands of years. It is only yesterday when people started to disassociate themselves from this tradition and culture because that's what the west told them. We can also the the effects of throwing your way of life by bracing western lifestyle. Today the western values are known as "normal" and used as bench mark every time people talk about other cultures.
southern guy, do you believe in any religion? If yes, what are you gonna do if Allah says "you were wrong about the historian! he doesn't belong to that tribe" You lied about me and I have one offer for you: Just ask me what you want to know about me and I promise to tell you!
Instead of calling me names, why don't you challenge me in a civilized way? |
| Historian | Saturday, March 24, 2001 - 12:37 pm
correction ethnic racial= ethnic and racial.
bribe=tribe
the the = see the effects |
| Southern-Guy | Saturday, March 24, 2001 - 03:47 pm
Historian,
As you stated earlier, you told us that you favored Somali-land, in that case I charged you as a Somali-lander. In other words, I have seen your first posting's number one favorism of the Winners, which was Somali-land people. What do you think in your idea that you could be?. "YES", I believe Islamic religion 100%, and alhamdulilah it is for the sake of "ALLAH" SWT. Historian, I don't know who you are, and what region your heart belongs. That is the signs of "GOD". I just used my common-sense and and my imaginational self "EGO" of my brain neurons.
Historian, I would have no problem if you would tell me either in the past or some time in your next postings. In that case, I would be more happy to hear from you.
PS: Warning,I might get more points once you declare your real favorite folks.
NP: With Clarity please!...-)
Southern-Guy |
| HISTORIAN | Sunday, March 25, 2001 - 09:55 am
Southern, I think we are all here to learn from one another. If I am wrong you can prove me wrong without labeling me as rer hebel. I did not favor anyone but the truth is that issaq people dominate much of the north and they are prospering. If you read research papers about Somalia, they all agreed on one thing life is very precious in Puntland and Somaliland. Residents of somaliland and Puntland live in peace with rules of law. No one gets killed for a minor reason in these two administrations. Are they winners? They are winners in terms of human life, peace and development. Stating the fact doesn't mean I am from Somaliland!
Some one said why didn't you mention the war between Igal and Toor. In answer to that, there are also 100S of battles that took place in Somalia which I never mentioned. I mentioned the costliest one - between aydid/mahdi. If you witnessed that particular war in Somaliland, feel free to share it with us. Remember no animosity is needed. We are only discussing history. I think I know about somalia's current history more than most of you. Yours is based on your tribe's point of views but mine is based on documented history, including my visit to Hargesa, bosaso, kismayo, baydabo and Mogadishu during the civil war. I went there to help the refugees who were looted, raped and murdered by their own Somali people. Somaliland and Puntland welcomed their people who fled the war in the south with open hands while tribes in the south were looting international relief aid at gun point.
Let me clear out something else before you call me a missionery: My faith is islam.
Since you asked to know more about me in a civilized way, here's my bio.
Born: Mogadishu - 1973
Father = Somali Abgal/Wacaysle
Mother = Russian
Education Bachelor (Political Science)
Doing Masters (African History)
Since somalia is one of my mother countries, I have a library of Somali history books. everything that's taking place now and then are being recorded by the international community in order to understand Somalia's uniqueness.
There's one thing I know about somalis. If I say caydiid was a great guy, the first person would call me habargedir or hawiye. Likewise, if I say Morgan is mujahit, I would be labeled as Isaq. I am 1/2 Somali and somalis call me the white guy when others call me "the color guy" since I have yellowish color. To the white man I am a colored person and to the African I am a white guy!
Now, I talked about somaliland's prosperous situation and I became isaq all over sudden. |
| Historian | Sunday, March 25, 2001 - 10:00 am
correction again - morgan = I would be labeled as anti-isaq (NOT ISAQ) |
| Southern-Guy | Sunday, March 25, 2001 - 07:44 pm
Historian,
If what you are saying is true, we have many things in common, except that your mother is from abroad. By the way, the time is running and Southern cities are now recovering. Mogadishu, will be the most beuitiful city in the horn of africa. As you can see, unlike the other cities Mogadishu has 2 TV satelites, more than two airports, more than three seaports and many facilities such us tellecomunications of half-duplex and full-duplex radio waves.
Historian, your projects that you were prepared to write about the African-History could all be biased, if you don't willing to trace the real facts about that history. In that case, your thesis could only be a one sided history as Prof "Mohamed Said Samatar" wrote a fictional history which were not based the true Statistical Population Probability of Statistical Science(Sigma). As a Historian you can't write down what ever you want, in that case, you must have alot of cautions before you become the publisher of the Nation's History. Historian, even-though you come close to my side, still we have a different idea and different political aspects with whom we could rebel with each-other.
Ps: I don't see any Losers within the Sub-clan of Hawiye tribe, specially "Abgaal". In your idea, why did you put in the Losers list?. Remember, you already counted me as an envoy of any special group.
Southern-Guy |
| Hudo | Monday, March 26, 2001 - 09:39 am
Mr Historian,
Your answer as you already showed your first post, was cheap and classless. I did not say anything about Siad Barre but mentioned his name. My point was to prove you wrong that your ideas that some soamlis had kingdoms and others not. And that some are loosers and others are not.
I am mareexaan and I beleave that we are all loosers. we desrespected our religion and had no common sese whatsoever.
I think we all have same background and civilization whether good or bad. I do not beleaive what you sadi about Hawiye, daarood and isaaq.
by the way, I was born in Mugadisho and my family were there for a long time. I was born in mid-70's what can you tell me about Mugadisho.
I am about to complte my second degree ( both my degrees are from westren uni) adn I am gonna write soon my first book on Somali history. We will see me and you who wins. At least I will search the thruth.
wa bilaahi towfiiq
Hudo
Southernguy,
I agree a lot of things with you. I am 100% daarood but I beleive we are all brothers and sisters and have common heritage.
M |
| darwiish | Monday, March 26, 2001 - 05:55 pm
intresting debate. IF YOU WANT WRITE SOMALI TRIBES HISTORY. YOU CANNOT FORGET THE ONY NOBLE TRIBE. After all the high light of somali history must to be Darwiish revelution. Everyone who searched the western libariry and the net will agree with me. enter any search engine darwiish or simply dhulbahante. Dr lewis wrote " the most feared tribe in somalia"
The first English man visited somalia wrote "
"the country of the Ahl Oor Sing ally the great pasture-ranges of the Dulbahanta, a level country abounding in grass, water, and timber, and without a stone. Unlike their other brethren, the Dulbahanta are a nation who fight chiefly on horseback, their arms being two spears and a shield. Their horses are powerful and courageous; the breed ; descended, according to Somali tradition, from the stud of Suleiman, the son of David, and consequently is highly valued. The Dulbahanta, as far as I have seen of them, are a fine martial race of men, second to none of the branches of Darrood either in conduct or appearance, and they are described as being courteous and hospitable to the stranger who visits them"
another british historian wrote
"the Somalis had been able to hold their own in the hot low lands against the Christian Ethiopians and the tribes that had gone over to them. When it was spear against spear, Bagheri could attack Bertiri, and Dolbahanta cavalry was a match for the Galla" |
| Cadaado | Monday, March 26, 2001 - 10:46 pm
Darwish, Saaxiib waxaan aad ula dhacsanahay sidii geesinnimada laheyd ee qabiilka Dhulbahantaha u difaacay dalkiisa iyo diintiisa. Runtii waa wax aan aad ula yaabay, ciidanka ugu badan ee Sayid Maxamed waxay ahaayeen Dhulbahante, inkastoo ay gudahooda ku sii kala horreeyeen, waxaa aad loo sheegaa Cali Geri.
Runtii anigu waxa la yiraahdo GEESINNIMADA ayaan aad iyo aad u jeclahay iyo dagaalka xaqa ah. Waxaan u maleynayaa haddii aan joogi lahaa waqtigii Sayidka inaysan daqiiqad igu qaadateen inaan ku biiro ciidammadiisa. Qofba wax buu jecel yahay, anigu waxaan jeclahay "dagaalka" gaar ahaan markuu yahay Al JIHAAD diinta lagu kor yeelayo. Waxaan kaloo aad u jecelahay GABAYGA. Labadaas aad baan u jeclahay (WAR "the Holy War" and Poem).
Nin aan isku qabiil nahay (Habargidir) oo gabayaa ahaa noolaana waqtigii Ina Cabdille Xasan, yaa lagu yiri "war ninka Daarood gabay ku tiri ee ceebee, wax ka sheeg". Wuxuu ku jawaabay: war ninkaas waa nin ragannimo meel dhigtay oo muslim iyo gaalba iska celiyay oo dadkoo dhan ka baqayo inuu ku soo duulo, anigana, buu yiri, iskaba dhaaf inaan af cidlaa iyo been ka sheego e, waxaaban doonayaa oo aan cidna iga xigin inaan ciidankiisa ku biiro, gabay buu ku yiri sidaas, wuxuu yiri:
Gowraar Xawaale iyo Abgaal, godobyaduu joogay
Marreexaanka sii gudubsanee, Gedo ka hooseeya
Ingiriiska gaalka cad kufriga, badaha gowriira
Intuu gaaro gaaliyo islaam, geel ma ka idleeyay
Nin waliba ma gaashaday oo huradada, gama ma siin waayay
Wadaadkaa waxaan ugu gabyaa, way garaad li'iye
Af galoofa uma dhiibi karo, nin iga guul roone
Ninna haatan iigama gudbana, geyshka soo baxaye
Darwiishoow, waxaad ku mahadsan tihiin sidii Dhulbahante wadaadkii Ogaadeen ugu hiilliyay (Sayid Maxamed), Sayidkuna khaladaad fara badan waa lahaa, laakiin sida marag ma doontada ah ujeeddadiisuna aheyd wuxuu doonayay inuu dalka ka xoreeyo gumeystihii gaalka ahaa ee Ingiriis iyo Talyaaniba ahaa ee doonayay inay dadkannaga ka baddelaan diintooda Islaamka. Darwiishoow waa wax taariikhdu qoreyso sida Dhulbahantaha ugu gargaareen Sayidka, uguna dhammaadeen dagaalladii ba'naa ee ay la soo galeen Sayid Maxamed Cabdille Xasan. Mahadsanid. |
| Tasfanya | Tuesday, March 27, 2001 - 02:44 am
You Somalians are all idiots, mindless,useless and good for nothing.You must unite other wise we are going to invade the whole stupid, nomadic Somali nation.You have nice ladies with big butt. |
| Awd | Tuesday, March 27, 2001 - 02:56 am
You think you are better, think again. You are idiot but I'm a proud Muslim. |
| Historian | Tuesday, March 27, 2001 - 06:25 am
My dear friends,
Thank you very much taking part of this debate.
Huda, aside from emotions, Siad Barre was good to nobody. No one benefited from his ruthless dictatorship. He transported Somali western refugees to the north and made Isaqs and Ogadens bitter enemies. He closed almost all sea ports and airports of the country Except Mogadishu. He never built a university outside of Mogadishu area. Mogadishu was the only functioning city in the whole country. He did that ONLY to control people, their moves, and information.
Some people argue that Mohamed Siad was nice to his people. I challenge them! He used his clan as shield. He always told them if "I lose power, you'll be wiped out the face of this planet", and they believed him. People started to hate Marehan because Marehans thought the only way to survive was to die for Siad's dictatorship. What do you expect when you draft a nomad from the country and make him a general within few years. If Siad loved his tribe, Marehans would have more doctors, business tycoons and engineers today. He produced a tribe of Generals. Look at their provinces now! Very poor with so many diseases such as TB. I am not against Marehan but that's the aftermath of falling victim to the person they thought was their savior. No Marehan person wants to admit it but they were used by Siad. If he loved them, at least he would develop their state. Because of Siad's mismanagement, today you see Habargedir guys who are arguing that they are the rightful owners of Marka and Kismayo. Siad Barre's legacy cannot be completed in a short discussion like this one.
South, you said "why did you call Abgal a loser?" Well, I reached that conclusion based practical study, like visiting where they control, interacting with their elders and youth, reading about them, etc. As you said, Mogadishu has everything like TV stations but this particular tribe is not a front runner in business and innovation. Everything you see in Mogadishu is run from where Habargedir controls. Vast majority of Abgals are very poor and isolated from the rest of the society. This tribe is protectionist with dreams of controlling Mogadishu one day. If you go to Mogadishu today, you'll see every Somali tribe in the areas controlled by Habargedir. You even see Marehan, Leelkase and Ogaden business guys operating in these areas with no fear. Abgal people do not allow others to live in their neighborhood. Now, they are isolated and north Mogadishu has more animals than people. Abgal will be losing as a dominant political player unless they stop distancing themselves from other Somalis.
Darwiish, All I know about Dhulbahante is that many mebers of this tribe and very few other tribes such as Majerten do not think collectively. Just talk to few Dhulbahante guys and you'll see that everyone has his/her individual opinion like the developed world. The only people told me that they don't care about who rules Somalia as long as they can live in peace are from Majerten and Dhulbahante.
I think we can all leanr from each oither if we debate without calling each other names. I know it is hard for the Somali person to accept not good comments about his/her tribe. |
| JAMAMA | Tuesday, March 27, 2001 - 12:21 pm
HEY SHUT THE •••• UP !!! YOU BLOODY UGLY ETHIOPIAN!!! WHAT'S YOUR FUCKING NAME TASTFOCKER? GODDAMN UGLY PEOPLE !!! YOU GUYS ARE NOTHING BUT A •••• PANK ASSES!!! AND YOU KNOW IT YOU'LL NEVER REACH WHERE EVER WE ARE LET ALONG TALK ABOUT OUR WOMEN!!! WHAT A FREAKEN LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSER!!! •••••••; JUST DREAM ON CUZ YOU'LL NEVER HAVE A SOMALIAN GIRL!!! LOSER!!! DID ANYBODY EVER TELL YA THAT NO SOMALIAN CAN SPELL RIGHT THE WORD "UGLY" EVERYTIME WE SEE YOU BLOODY UGLY ETHIOPIANS BASTARDS!!! JUST KEEP YOUR UGLINESS OUT OF OUR NET YOU FREAKEN TESFANYIIIIIII - ••••••!!! |
| St.Soma | Tuesday, March 27, 2001 - 01:26 pm
MY BROTHER "HISTORIAN", I DON'T MIND BECOMING YOUR OLD IDEOLOGICAL SPARRING PARTNER. BUT, YOU SURPRISE ME LET ALONG WORDER ME EVERYTIME I READ WHAT YOU WROTE. IDEOLOGICALLY WE ARE MILES APART. SOME PEOPLE MIGHT THINK YOUR VIEWS ARE HOPELESSLY "WET" BUT I FOUND THEM TO BE A LITTLE UNREALISTIC. ALSO, YOUR DEBATING STYLE WAS VERY HECTORING AND WAS NOT CONDUCIVE TO A FRUITFUL EXCHANGE OF VIEWS. YOUR TOPIC ABOUT WHO LOSSES AND WHO WINS TO BEGIN WITH WAS AN ABSURD INSULT AND A RELATIVELY TRIVIAL ON IN ITSELF. SO, THAT'S WHY I DON'T EXPECT THAT FURTHER DISCUSSIONS WITH YOU ON THIS SUBJECT WOULD BE FUTILE. |
| Governo | Tuesday, March 27, 2001 - 06:55 pm
Mr Historian
some of your comments are exaggerated ,back 60's general Daud warned Somalia military leaders Siyad Barre favoritism of practicing tribe as a avidavit to get promotion ,and when he became president 69 ,,those who forced him to hold this position he executed them ..Gabare ,Aynanshe and so on....but his ruthless became very aware most of the Somali's 76 when he executed publicly the Elders Culuma'udiin ,,,since then he killed to survive...and he created elite nomads all over the Somali gov'ment who misuse and abuse the power of the gov'mnt ,and most of them from his tribe , and majority of Somali's hated ...and he acknowledged it become unavoidable if he leaves the power it will be disastrous one ,even to his own tribe,,,and after the mass all Somali's are loser's no one can claim clear victory look around all of the chaos ,,,the real victims are the Somali civilians all over in Somalia ,,,the winners you talking about are the warlords who are still planning more disasterous to come ,,,Egal who is fascist and confused one from the beginning and up to present time,,,,,you telling us these monsters are the winners who are benefiting our own blood and beloved country ,,,let me tell you again and again the people who are suffering are our sisters ,youger brothers ,grandmothers ,granfathers and if you calling them the loser's of the Somali civil war you are history !!! |
| Tasfanya | Wednesday, March 28, 2001 - 02:48 am
•••• your People,yourland and your history assholes. |
| Somali | Wednesday, March 28, 2001 - 07:01 am
tasfanya, we didn't that you loved us so much! your stay here at somalinet clearly indicates how close you are to Somalis. By the way, somalis and Ethiopians are one to the white man. |
| JAMAMA | Wednesday, March 28, 2001 - 12:24 pm
TESFOCKER YOU ARE A SUCH BIG HUGE FUCKING LOOOOOOOOOOOSER!!!!
WHAT A PIG !!! GET A LIFE LOOOSER!!!LOL
YOU'RE SOOOOOO CONFUSED AND FUCKED!!!
LEAVE US ALONE YOU LOOOSER!!! DO YOU SEE ANYBODY TALKING ABOUT ETHIOPIA YOU •••• HEAD? HUH ? PANK!!! |
| Southern-Guy | Friday, March 30, 2001 - 03:49 am
Historian,
Do you know one of the richest man in Mogadishu?. Do you know that "Bakaraha" the market is an allies to all Somalis, not only special group. Your words were made up by rumors. Bro,bring up your real documentry history. I'm bussy right now, until next time have fun.
Hudo, walaal waad mahadsantahay. Waan garan karaa inaad Somali dhab ah tahay. Gacalo, anniguba Xamar ayaan ku dhashay, oon ka maqanahay in mudda ah. Allahayow waddankeenii nabad inooga yeel. Waad u jeedaa xabashida halkaan soo galaya iyo ajaaniibta jecel inay helaan sirteena. Wallee halkan waa in laga noqdaa dhowaan.
Historian, Saaxib marka danbe bal aanu ku soo qorno afkeenii hooyo. Adiga malaha kii aabbe buu kuu yahaye...lol--<<Kaftan>>.
Nabadeey
Southern-Guy |
