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     | Thursday, November 16, 2000 - 01:18 pm The Title may sound a bit extreme but the truth of the matter is, that is the fact. I write this as Somalia's president lands in Addis Ababa to have talks with the Ethiopian leadership. If there is one nation that has benefited from somalia's misery that is Ethiopia. Ethiopia's meddling of the internal affairs of Somalia is one of the prime reasons that has prolonged the chaos in Somalia. Even at this stage when most of Somalis seem to be behind their government Ethiopia still does not show signs of good neighborly attitude. It continues to aid and abet the discredited warlords. It is about time the Addis administration should realize that their ( warlords )time is up and for it to refrain from the hostility it has towards our nation. I will not go in to the history of our conflict or the contentious points that kept the two neighbors at odds for long time as we are all aware of it. Ethiopia must stop its hegemonistic design in the region. Their recent victories over Eritrea might have emboldened the Ethiopians but they need to be reminded that messing up with Somalia is a different ball game all together.
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| | Thursday, November 16, 2000 - 08:36 pm BROTHER IT IS TRUE THEY TOOK ADVANTAGE OF US DURING LAST 10 YRS, BUT I GIVE THEM A CREDIT. IF SOMEONE IS SMARTER THAN ME I WILL GIVE HIM A CREDIT FOR THAT. ETHIOPIA USED WHAT IS CALLED USING ONE STONE TO KILL TWO BIRDS. IT WAS SOME SOMALIAN WARLORD WHO WERE USING THE ADDIS ADMINISTRATION COZ OF THE HATERED BTW US, AND THEY TOOK ADVANTAGE OF US BY THEM KILLING OUR PEOPLE AND AT THE SAME TIME GIVEING WEAPONS TO THOSE SOMALI'S WHO WERE PRO ADDIS TO KILL THERE OWN BROTHERS. I WOULD DO IF I HAD THAT CHANCE ON ETHIOPIA TOO.SO THEY WERE SMARTER THAN US IT IS NOT THEIR FAULT. WHAT WE NEED TO DO? FOR THE TIME BEING WE NEED TO STOP RELATIONSHIP WITH ETHIOPIA, COZ ALL THEY NEED NOW IS TO USE SOMALIA AS APORT. THEY ARE LAND LOCKED. THEY HAVE BEING TEMPPORARALY BEING USING DJABUTI BUT NOT ANYMORE. I AM WONDERING RIGHT NOW WHY THE SOMALIA NEW GOV'T ARE HAVING TOO MUCH MEETING IN ADDIS. ETHIOPIA NEED US AND DJABUTI WHICH ARE OUR BROTHERS. I DON'T THINK THEY CAN USE ERITREAS OR SUDAN PORT ANYMORE. SO WE SOMALIAN WE NEED TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF ETHIOPIA RIGHT NOW. WE CAN ASK THEM TO PAY HIGHT PORT TAX, TO PAY COMPERSATE FOR THE SOMALIS THEY KILLED, AND FREE OGADENIA. I SWEAR GOD ETHIOPIA LIFE IS IN OUR HANDS TODAY. I TOOK ADVANTAGE OF US AND WE CAN CAN DO TOO. BYE
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| | Friday, November 17, 2000 - 06:21 am Ethiopians r our biggest enemy..but most somalians don't even know that..the only good thing Siad Barre did was to declare war on them.. damn those russians and cubans..if they hadn't come in..it would have been a different story Ethiopia has the support of the west..but it won't matter..coz we r a country now
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| | Friday, November 17, 2000 - 07:32 am We have had enough of this. Let us make it loud and clear to Ethiopia that Somalia is for Somalis and our sovereignty and national integrity has to be respected. It can't invade and occupy our land as per its whims and fancies.
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| | Friday, November 17, 2000 - 11:34 am US Marine For president: US Marine For president: US Marine For president: US Marine For president: US Marine For president: US Marine For president: US Marine For president: i say Big point right there bro....ethiopia i would say did keep a lot of somali refugees for years now, but they have get paid from the UN for that. and now, there a millions of Ethios in North somali as refugees. but like u put, we have big advantage now. and they're finding way of dividing us now, talking to somaliland about a PORT usage, and stuff......but we need to be one before we try to defeat them... peace out....
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| | Friday, November 17, 2000 - 05:26 pm lol sharmarke. i am unopposed president lol. thanx though. they might not except me coz i work with marines but one think i am still somalian. u can work for microsoft but u will be still somalian. as u said they will use somalilands port, nope somalialand is provence of somalia. we need to bring back the five star. (djabuti, ogadenia, NFD ) so their is no way somalia land can be a country by itself.i don't want get deep into this somaliland. what doe somalialand stands for . the land of somalis. so it is pert of somalia. Egal was acting as president for the last 10 yrs what constractive think did he did for them , nothing but killed thousands of them so he is another warlord. i know loke the back of my hand somalianders wanna be part of somalia but they can not trust the central somalia gov't , all we need is to trust each other and show some love to each other. how can that happen. we rule bye the book of God. wabillahi towfiq
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| | Friday, November 17, 2000 - 06:42 pm Yo I say we kill all those stupid Ethiopian bastards. As soon as we get a good functioning government, with a a fair size military we should not only take back Ogadenia, but also the rest of that fucking country. Then after we do that we should take Djibouti, Eritrea, Sudan, Tanzania, Kenya; and our goal is by 2025 all Africa to be under Somali control.
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| | Saturday, November 18, 2000 - 12:58 am LOL AKA HONIC I WILL BE THE GENERAL LEADING UR TROOPS.
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| | Sunday, November 19, 2000 - 12:25 pm Timirtii horeba dab loo waa I agree with you people Xabashada are using warlords to shape somali politics. They have done so and from political point of veiw they have to do it in order to survive. Besides they have more guts than we do at least so far. Do you know Zanaawi was refugee in Muqdishu studying politics when people like Cigaal, C/laahi Yuusuf and majority of Warlords were practicing politics two decades before he started even, and some of them were highly skilled at it. What happened. NOTHING except that somali politicians are Gun, Adoon, Niggers. Today they are under pupil. That has to be the ultimate humilation, but again do they care humilation. My friends, those who think we can squeeze Xababasha, you are dreaming. Yes we have the resources to do the job. but who will do it. A refugee pupil seems to be shaping our future not other way round. At least if we are honest with ourselves and little bit more realistic we can say this is what happened and start all over from the scratch, and to do so we have to equip ourselves with our past, history if you like. We can master political survival, and most important of all we need to start learning ISLAM. What happened to the Somalia who brought Xabasha to its knees. How we ended up being here.
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| | Sunday, November 19, 2000 - 01:54 pm TO WISDOM ALL ALL OF you areSTUPID I BET 100 BUIK IF YOU SEE AND ETHIOPIA GIRL YOU WILL ASK HER OUT. BEFORE YOU GUYS START TALKING about ETHIOPIA just asked youself what had made as come to american in the first place. people like you guys start talking about fucking thing like this and i now all of you guy are old and stupid maybe what you guys do is sit around and go to computer all day.
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| | Sunday, November 19, 2000 - 01:54 pm TO WISDOM ALL ALL OF you areSTUPID I BET 100 BUIK IF YOU SEE AND ETHIOPIA GIRL YOU WILL ASK HER OUT. BEFORE YOU GUYS START TALKING about ETHIOPIA just asked youself what had made as come to american in the first place. people like you guys start talking about fucking thing like this and i now all of you guy are old and stupid maybe what you guys do is sit around and go to computer all day.
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| | Monday, November 20, 2000 - 07:51 am Hi All, People like Pink need to get their act together. This forums I guess is not for the likes of you. We are discussing an issue that is of paramount national importance to us and you bring in stuff like dating Ethiopian gals and so on. The issue of Ethiopia's interference in our interbal affairs is one that can't be underestimated. To be realistic, there isn't much we can do to that nation at the moment but we must first make the people aware of the problem. Knowing the existence of it, is the first step towards solving it. Ilaahoow noo gargaar. Aameen
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| | Monday, November 20, 2000 - 09:40 am there we go, another somalian physco.lol,,,what does diz topic have to do with dating Ethio Girls. lol... anyway,,,i bleive if we unite we can take them basterds ova, like the 77,,, can u bleive somalia was the ****STRONGEST BLACK AFRICAN COUNTRY*** in 1977. yes, that is right, we were, and we can do that again.
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| | Monday, November 20, 2000 - 09:51 am Why somalians love war?
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| | Monday, November 20, 2000 - 09:53 am Pink, Semi-mooran fag I am not old, but you can be pretty sure that we are going to help Xabashada destroy itself. Mark my words. How? pure skill, double manuavering,historical exploitation. There are too many differences in xabashada than there are in somalia and when the opportunity presents itself we 'll set those on fire. In the mean time we will watch closely What the Eithiopians are doing.
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| | Monday, November 20, 2000 - 10:06 am was up somalis? nothing like warmongering to whip up national sentiments huh?. what happens when lets say by the grace of Allah (swt) we beat Eithopia in a war?. We still gonna chew oursleves up again. we beeen following the same formual for years guys, ever since independence. we should break the cycle through defining ourselves through constructive identities.. war will not help.. casue as soon as it is over...we back to square one.. and our somali butts will fight.. starve die.. etc etc.. the broken record of human tradegy one love
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| | Monday, November 20, 2000 - 11:00 am While I can understand the cautiousness of the Somali government in its dealings with the Ethiopians. I see no good enough reason why shouldn't the Somali government publicly demand that Ethiopia vacates the areas in the south of the country that it annexed. That is no disputed territory like Ogadenia.
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| | Tuesday, November 21, 2000 - 03:03 pm Hello Brothers and sisters, Ethiopia has always served as a brocker for the west politically, religiously and economically for the last 140 years since minilik defeated the last Oromo battalion with the help of the British weapon and military advisors. The British added Ogaden to the newly formed empire as a reward and made the promise that it would help defend the empire against any foregin invasion and help it in its desire to conqor more lands to the south. People, that promise has never been broken. Today, ethiopia is the only threat and obviously to the stability of the whole region. Since the fall of the Mengistu regime, it has tested all of its nieghboring countries one way or another. As you all remember, it has invaded Somalia many times and finally occupied it illegally and against the will of the people. It has killed, tortured and imprisoned many local Somalis in Baidoa. It has invaded Eritrea and cutt off Djibouti its daily imports without any notice. It has sent its soldiers into Kenya illegally and robbed cattle from local people and killed the owners. It has kidnapped Kenyans including a 10 year old girl and refused to return the people and the cattle. People, we are dealing with street gangesters here not a government. While all the past Habasha governments were known for their lack of respect for the rule of law and human rights, this one is the most notorious of all. We, Oromos have tried every medium of communication and every language to tell the world that these people are savages. No body is listening. The world does not care about the Africans. We, specially, the Oromos and the Somalis need to come together and work together to accomplish the lasting peace and stability in the horn in particular and in the region in general. We cannot let this bulls run around fearlessly for ever. We have all it takes but the unity which is crucial. Khalid
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| | Tuesday, November 21, 2000 - 05:22 pm I agree with you, We are allies in our fight against the imperialist, rascist and fascist regime of Ethiopia which uses brutality to control other people. Every Ethiopian regime is a threat to Somalia. Both Oromos and Somalis must unite against that evil empire.
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| | Tuesday, November 21, 2000 - 06:04 pm the imperialist, rascist and fascist regime of stupidity.Please somali,start drinking camel milk.
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| | Wednesday, November 22, 2000 - 10:38 am y'all are stupid...I'm ethiopian, and all you somali cats try to be cool with us here in america...but this is how y'all feel. I can't say my peoples haven't done anything wrong, but which country in history ain't takin over someone or tried to build an empire? thats politics, people, deal wit it! To AKA HONIC...try runnin your own country before claimin to take over all Africa...and your plan to run things will make you just as bad as everyone else. Diplomacy is the answer, but first u need to get on your feet as a country, just like us and the damn Eritreans need to solve ours. Peace Out. Etyopya yashenifaloo
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| | Wednesday, November 22, 2000 - 11:22 am **************HISTORY IN SEQUENCE************ **************BLACK AFRICA**************** 17th Century...... The Strongest Black people militry and Economy wise ****SOAMLIS*** LEADER=AHMED GURY BASE=Zayla sultans and tribal wars After couple HUNDERD yrs later ***Strongest BLACK PEOPLE****** again Somalis 1850-1920 LEADER= SAYYID ABDULE HASSAN BASE=TALEH again after bout 80yrs ****STRONGEST BLACK NATION****** SOMALIA 1977 Economy and militry wise both LEADER=SIYYAD BARRE BASE=Moqdisho what did we learn????????????????????? 1. everytime somalis unite, they are strong and powerful. 2. history repeats itself 3. in periods of time ********FUTURE PRIDITION************ bye the year 2050 Somalia will be the strongest nation in AFRICA, in every asspect of live, if they unite today...... the 5star flag is comming back, and once again, AFRICA belongs to us. puntland, somaliand, Djabouti, NFD, and somalis all over the world will stand as brothers once again. with pride........ we're gonna RAID and Storm the enemy soon. we got more sceintist, Engineers, doctors and lawyers going back to home soon. am just thinking not only africa, but we might even take over the whole planet.
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| | Wednesday, November 22, 2000 - 01:20 pm Habesha, That is how we all feel and for a good reason. You have never been at the receiving end of forces of occupation. I am a Somali who grew up among Amharas and I know what it feels like to be under oppression.All we want is that Ethiopians learn to live in peace with neighbors.
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| | Wednesday, November 22, 2000 - 02:06 pm Stupid Somalis We have found an easy way of concuring somalia. We don't even need to send a troop, we have found the best weapon to use against Somalis--Another Somali. You see if we find opposition we just send arms to a rival clan and the business is taken care of. We are playing you fools and it is working.
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| | Wednesday, November 22, 2000 - 02:13 pm Shame on us and on our leaders. They have given those stinking Amharas a chance to play havoc with us. Without those leaders would this Amxar be in a position to talk to me like that today. The generations to come will not fall prey to the the Wayana designs.
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| | Thursday, November 23, 2000 - 05:18 am Looks to me the Whole Horn Africa is doomed if have your own Ways?!! Whay we need is to help each other! not destroy, couse we stuck together in this World! Somali,Oroma,Amhara,Tigrey,Eritaria,all the of us are Wasting our meager resources to war that will only bring disester to everyone living at the Horn Of Africa?! What is the point of this going for ever?! I wonder?!! Why we lust Each others blood all the time when we know we are Same people?! Example when you see anyone from Horn of Africa outside this area, What do you feel?! like Brothers and Sisters?! Right!! Why we can't do that back where it matters?! I mean bring peace to Our Troubled World so we can all prosper and rule the world..lol.......
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| | Friday, November 24, 2000 - 12:01 pm Habasha sucker! Who is stupid? A people who gave away the only port they had or Somalis who kicked your bud in 1977. Remember had not been the largest Soviet milatary assistance and shipment since the end of World War II we would have sorted you out. What, an empire? Look, you guys have the worst economy on the earth, even worse than Somalia, a country without a central goverment. What is up with that? Besides, how the hell you guys allowed a minority to rule you. Tigre are 2 million people and they are dominating a country of 40 million people. DANM THAT IS BAD. Imagine if the Tigre were moving Eithopia away from international begger and home of starvation to a decent economic development we would said let them rule, but like most minorities they are sucking it up and you guys are doomed forever.
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| | Friday, November 24, 2000 - 12:24 pm Faysal shut the •••• up. Fucking imposter. It is history. Now we have problem. Tomorrow it is their turn. They are disintegarating as we speak. We are becoming nation again slowly and slowly. It is US agianst them forever until we reduce Eithopia to rubles both economically,and politically. That is my ultimate Goal. What Eithopian are doing will not be forgotten. Mark my words.
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| | Monday, November 27, 2000 - 03:57 am The Somalis numero uno enemy are the Somalis. The Ethiopians are a very distant second. Jeego is correct. The peoples of the horn must find common ground to unite themselves with, not look for historical conflicts to feed future conflicts. There would be nothing I'd like to see more than a united (not one country - something more like the NAFTA of the horn) horn of Africa, with open trade and unrestricted travel. This can only happen when each country develops a just government, fights corruption in government, respects it neighbors and drops irredentist claims.
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| | Monday, November 27, 2000 - 07:59 am MAD MAC, With all due respect to your point of view, I think you are being idealistic when you talk of a united Horn. As you say such things are possible only when nations respect their neighbors which Ethiopia certainly does not do and according to me that is precisely what makes Ethiopia a monster to have next door.
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| | Monday, November 27, 2000 - 05:41 pm Mad Mac, some one said you were shot. Who are we now UN or OAU? Besides Eithopia does not have economic resources, what do we trade? Hunger. Politically speaking, Eithopia is locked up in a vicious tradational economy with fifteenth century bride. It is unlikely that we would coexist peacefully unless they restrain their animal ambitions for regional supremecy. In addition Future Somalia will adopt Shariica which incidently have no tolerence for such forces.
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| | Monday, November 27, 2000 - 11:02 pm Durgal It would appear that rumors of my death are premature. In response to you and Faysal, you overstate the case. First of all, let's start with Ethiopia. This is hardly a monolithic society. As I am sure you are aware, the Ethiopians have a veriety of ethnic groups (the Tigre, The Oromo, The Somali, etc. etc. etc.) that compose the state. It is not a nation state per se. As with most multi-ethnic states world-wide, one group is always trying to politically dominate the others. This is one of the advantages of democracy, it allows accomodation with different groups. But for it to function it requires compromise. The Ethiopians aren't there yet, but they're heading that way. This same thing applies to the Somalis. The Somali people have had to learn the hard way that different groups (in your case clan familites, you're all the same ethnic group) have to be accomodated. It appears that a parculiar form of democracy is taking shape in Somalia now. Hopefully, the Somali people will be united through the forge of civil war, although that remains to be seen how this scenerio will play itself out. Although the Ogaden remains a sticking point for the Somalis, clearly again there is room for accomodation here. Perhaps, if the Somalis are patient, the Ogaden can be reaquired through plebescite. But if not, then a democratic process would allow the Somalis in the Ogaden to have fair representation in an Ethiopian government. The Ethiopian peoples are not intrinsically evil or irredentist and you make a mistake when you view them in this light. You need to stretch out a hand in friendship to them. If you want people to be more like you then you need to be an example (something you're not right now) to them and exchange trade and ideas with them. Not attack them. As for Sharia, this is not likely in the cards for the Somalis. The Somalis, like Presbyterian Scotts, can be religious fanatics when they feel like it, but by and large are more inclined to take a liberal approach to Islamic teachings. I would be very much surprised if Somalia became the next Saudi Arabia. It doesn't suit the Somali national character, the Mad Mullah not withstanding.
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| | Monday, November 27, 2000 - 11:05 pm I left this out, but lastly, if you want endless fighting and poverty to be the fate of your country, keep pursuing your current philosophy. You can spend your meagre resources on warfare, kill each other (which does help keep population in check) with abandon, and have no economic or political future. This will ensure Somalia remains the backwater that it is today.
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| | Tuesday, November 28, 2000 - 08:23 am What is happening in Ethiopia is not one ethnic group trying to politically dominate others as MR. MAD MAC would like us to believe, it is one ethnic group trying to decimate others that don't dance to its tunes and if you ( MAD MAC ) call that democracy, than I don't like democracy. What is happening in Ethiopia amounts to ethnic cleansing and genocide and spare a thought for your brothers and sisters in Ogaden, the system is so deadly against them even the hardest workers among them can't make a decent living. I have first hand experience of what goes on in Ethiopia and how maltreated the Somali people there are, for the simple reason that they are Somalis and Muslims too. Those of us that advocate leniency towards the Amhars miss the point that Ethiopians consider it to be their divine right to rule the horn. Take it from me I grew up with them and I know their mentality.
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| | Tuesday, November 28, 2000 - 08:56 am I can see the point of Mad Mac, though, he is not a Somali. Somalis are thier number uno enemies. However, it is a fact that Ethopians are one great enemy of the Soamlis. This goes bact to centuries and indeed bact to the Rise of islam.In other words Ethopians are Ortodoxy Christians that will never tolerate Islam ( see as an example the Serbians) If you look at history you will from time to time see the writer refering to the Somalis not only Somalis but Somali Muslims and their trditional anemies. ( check the Histort of Ahmed Gurey) Mad Mac, I see your frustration. Your experience in Somalia and the Somalis, and now the responde you get from the Somalis. Then, will make you wonder whether we are pretending to be like that ( hypocracy) but I will tell you man. when you wnt to Somalia, there was an anarchy ( and still is), and as I understood you went to Mogadiscio only. One will come to the conclusion that you met the mryans and their leaders. Somalis are more than that. To be continued
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| | Tuesday, November 28, 2000 - 09:41 am Ethiopia was the country that objected to Somalia’s participation in the recently concluded IGAD summit in Khartoum.Thanks to Sudan, Djibouti and Kenya that objection was finally over ruled. Further proof if any was needed that Ethiopia is trying to sabotage Somalia’s return to the community of nations.
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| | Tuesday, November 28, 2000 - 10:44 am Having siad that I beleive in diplamcy. We and the Ethopians can have good reltions, though, with cautios ( I do not know much about the subject i hear and read a lot about how they treat Muslaims under their rules) I do not beleive in the idea of uniting with the rest of Horn of Africa cuz I think relgion plays lot in poeple's life, and the fact that we have different relgions. BUT why are you good at talking and having a good plan s.th that seems very painful but distance now. I know some of you will shut me up, but do not you think we should be a bit more realistic and concentrare on the actual Somalia. I do think I can even express in words how I feel when I see educated somalis. Onething, unless you are the same clan you do not have consenses among you. You hate each other immesurable. You do not put into practise this religion you inheret, and made you the anemy of your neighbour ( do not get me wrong Islam is excellent and indeed the only correct religion) but do you tke an advantage of it. I do not think so. There are undeniably groups who are trying to put Islam into practise but they are suffering luck of experience, and they simple do not know how Islam can be both a sytem and a way of life. I think I am loosing my way so to be contunue
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| | Tuesday, November 28, 2000 - 11:08 am I think Arawello hit things on the head when she said DIPLOMACY. If Ethiopian policy is a rub (and clearly it is) you need to start negotiating with them. You are never going to win a war with them. Somalia is now pathetically weak. It has no ability to project power. The entire horn is a political and economic mess. If you want it to be something other than a political and economic mess, you have to seek political solutions to your problems and focus on economic growth. Islam and Christianity ARE NOT incompatible. There are numerous historical examples of Christians and Muslims living side by side without a problem. In fact, I'll bet most of you are living side by side right now with Christians. If you want to find a way you can. If you want to fight then recognize the cost of fighting will be poverty, disease and social dislocation.
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| | Tuesday, November 28, 2000 - 11:43 am Do Somalis in Somalia think that if we concede Ogadenia to Ethiopia, then they would leave us in peace? Those were illusions that were proven wrong since the collapse of the Somali state. Ethiopia annexed and occupied parts of Somalia and continues to do so. I was surprised to have heard from an Ethiopian gal in my office that Djibouti belongs to Ethiopia. Historically she said Djibouti used to be part of Ethiopia ( just like Eriterea, was ) ( need to do some research on this) Can anyone here throw some light on to this? That was news for me. Their hostility towards us goes much deeper than a piece of land. A friend of mine would always argue that this is not a battle over lands but of faith ( he would quote verses from the Quran to support his arguments). With each passing day I am feeling more inclined towards my friend’s view point.
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| | Tuesday, November 28, 2000 - 11:53 am MAD MAC, As self appointed spokes person for the Ethiopian regime, how would you respond to this. Is this what democracy means to you? Disclaimer The views and comments expressed in this e-mail are that of the originator(s) and not of Ethiolist services. Ethiolist SHALL NOT BE LIABLE for any damages suffered as a result of this e-mail. Open forums for news, discussions and free expression of ideas! !!!! http//www.ethiolist.com) **************************************************************************************************** * Solidarity Committee for Ethiopian Political Prisoners (SOCEPP) Postfach 411305, 12123 Berlin, Germany , SOCEPP-USA P.O.Box 28605, Oakdale, MN 55128, USA , SOCEPP-Canada, P.O. Box 413, Station E , Toronto, Ontario, M6H 4E3 e mail: Socepp@aol.com NOVEMBER 25/2000 UNDERGROUND SECRET PRISONS EXPOSED SOCEPP had been calling on international prison observatory bodies to check on the secret (so called "ghost) prisons that the EPRDF government maintains all over Ethiopia, including the capital Addis Abeba where private residential villas have been turned into secret and dark prisons. Furthermore, SOCEPP had highlighted the ruling party's (EPRDF/TPLF) practice of maintaining underground prisons (literally underground as he "cells" are dug deep down and the prisoners kept apart and incommunicado and in the dark) specially in rural areas with its own Tigrai area being the foremost. A high-level government security official who recently defected to Eritrea,Fiseha Haile Mariam, has confirmed the SOCEPP claim and revealed that the EPRDF maintains such hell holes in ADET (Axum area,Tigrai) and in AGBE (Tembien area, Tigrai). This is in addition to ZWAI where hundreds of political prisoners are kept and KALITI where many have died from the bad detention conditions and lack of medical treatment. The government maintains such prisons in the HUMERA region, in DUKEM (where an arms depot dug into a mountain by the former regime has been turned into a secret prison with prisoners kept in dark rooms in isolation), and other places. Many of the prisoners in such secret prisons re political prisoners on whose fate the government continues to refuse any comment. Members of opposition organizations like the OLF, EPRP and other opposition organizations as well as dissident members of the TPLF/EPRDF itself are the victims in these prisons. SOCEPP calls on the Red Cross and other prisons observatory bodies to demand to visit these prisons and to expose the violation of rights by the government in Addis Abeba. Visit our web page at www.socepp.de
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| | Tuesday, November 28, 2000 - 12:30 pm Well, a millitary intervention will never solve somalian problem rather a complete reconciliation of those warring fanctions would be the best chance of acheiving an ever lasting peace!!
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| | Tuesday, November 28, 2000 - 12:35 pm wait till i see ya later!!
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| | Tuesday, November 28, 2000 - 12:46 pm i think war ain't da answer to occupation of the somali land.......indeed Ethopia is somalia's traditional enemy and Ethopia believes somalia is the only threat she has got and the only country that can unseat her as regional power.....the answer to our problems is to get our house in order first and reclaim ogedania through political process.....we could give ethopians an incentive to give up Ogenia by giving an excess to our ports and integrating our economies.......we could dominate the horn through economy.....the somali race could make it to the top as ethnic somalis have largest land and most resources in the horn...we should however promote democracy and tolerance and look out for our interests at the same time.......we could do this by accomadating all somalis (mainstream somalis, minoraties and immigrants).
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| | Tuesday, November 28, 2000 - 10:43 pm Faysal Somali Yankee answered the question for me. I do not defend the Ethiopian regime, I am merely stating that endless warfare will bring neither prosperity nor the resolution you seek to Somalia or the Ogaden.
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| | Wednesday, November 29, 2000 - 07:03 am All this talk of diplomacy and getting contentious issues resolved through dialogue does not appeal to me that much , because all through my life I have always noticed that at the negotiating table disputes are always resolved in favor of the stronger party. Darwin’s theory of “survival of the fittest” has never been truer. My guru taught me that If you want peace prepare yourself for a war as weakness from your side invites trouble. I guess no one is suggesting that Somalia goes to war with any nation, however prudence demands that we know who are our friends and who our real enemies are.
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| | Wednesday, November 29, 2000 - 07:37 am Faysal....i suggested Somalia look out for it's ineterets by any means.....going to war over ogenia is not a viable option now...n it is not in the best interests of the somali ethopians....we will have to first establish our selves as ecomonic power house in the horn with a relative strong military backup......we must use our brains A richer somalia can do alot more damage to ethopia.....and we won't be the underdogs in the negoitating table......we must first control the follow of wealthy in the horn.....also keep in mind disintegrated ethopia is not in the best interest of somalia....we should find a way to make ethopia depend on us economically and other-wise....this way we could dictate our terms without going to war and loosing precious lives from both ends.
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| | Wednesday, November 29, 2000 - 08:07 am Somali Yankee, I am glad you understand that we have a problem here that needs to be addressed for our own survival in the long run. " Somali Ethiopians" that word really bothers me a lot. I come from Dire Dawa and consider myself as much a Somali as any one else born in Mogadisho or Erigavo for that matter. The fact that Ethiopians rule us by the gun against our own will does not make me a citizen of that nation. When you consider me a Somali Ethiopian you are in a way legitimizing Ethiopia's occupation of our land. Thanks,
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| | Wednesday, November 29, 2000 - 11:16 pm Faysal YOU ARE A CITIZEN OF THAT NATION (or better said country). YOU ARE NOT A CITIZEN OF SOMALIA. Your comment cuts to the heart of the problem. Look at your mind-set. Step out for a second and analyze it without emotion. Here is a classic case of action-reaction. Somalis resist Ethiopian government, Ethiopian government regards it's Somali citizenry with suspicion. Somalis then regard Ethiopian government as prejudice against them, Ethiopians regard Somalis as disloyal citizens. Ethiopian police (non-ethnic Somali) begin to oppress Somalis regarded as traitors, Somalis regard Ethiopians as tyrants. And on and on it goes. It feeds itself. Of course, the Ogaden should have belonged to Somalia when the states borders were first established. But it doesn't. Ethiopia is not a nation-state, it is just a state. There are a number of different ethnic groups in that State, including Somalis. If the state continues to try and maintain itself through oppression it will not survive. But a bunch of ethnically based micro-states is not good for the horn, so don't fall for that for a minute. Eritrea made a grave error in insisting on independence. The peoples of the horn would be better served if the different regions of Ethiopia were granted limited autonomy but remained part of the same state. The key is respect for the individual and the estabilshment of a government that doesn't care about ethnic background. This is not easy to do, but it is doable. Do you think everything in the Ogaden would be hunky dory if the Ogaden were part of Somalia?? Of course not. The Somalis in the Ogaden could simply enjoy the blood-bath the rest of the country enjoys. Then, when famine hit, the other Ethiopian peoples could wash their hands of it and say, oh well, too bad. At least this time around they did act - if not altogether efficiently. A full scale famine, with the possible deaths of several million people was averted. A few months back I was in a bar with an Ethiopian guy who was Amharic. He was telling me how another guy in the bar was a jerk because he was Oromo and they want to seperate from Ethiopia. From his perspective this would be like Somaliland wanting to seperate from the rest of Somalia. He doesn't think it's right. Ethiopia, from where he's sitting, is one indivisible country. I tried to explain to him that the Oromos are under-represented in Ethiopian government - i.e. oppressed. He said that's because they don't want to participate. I think he's half right and half wrong. They don't want to and also aren't allowed to. It all comes down to respect. The peoples of the horn have got to start respecting each other and realize they're all in the same poverty stricken boat together. If they put their little knuckleheads together, get rid of corrupt leadership, and develop politcal and economic systems based on equity, the horn could be a model for the world. Something great could come out of the tragedy of the last 20 or so years. But if everyone adopts your attitude, and sees only enemies instead of potential friends, if you don't learn to bury your history, then you will never climb out of the morass. You have to make your own future. If you choose a violent path, then you will have a violent future. And you guys have had enough violence to fill several hundred years. Give it a rest already.
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| | Thursday, November 30, 2000 - 01:43 am assalamu calaykum: WHAT???? WHAT????....... HAVE YOU FORGOTTEN THE ONLY ENEMY SOMALIA HAS IS SOMALIS??????? Ethiopia, on the contrary, has been kind enough to admit to it's land somalis persecuted by somalis. Don't get me wrong, Ethiopia treats somalis born in ethiopia in a "harsh" way, by discriminating against them, starving them to death, arbitrarly arrest etc. But, by claiming that ethiopia is behind our plight is another way of saying that "we, somalis, are´not smart enough", that "ethiopians are a superior race to the somalis".... let me tell you this somalis: we have only to blame ourselves: when shall we stop pointing the finger at others and instead fight our own?..... somalis were from the begining of the so-called independence untill present day mislead into believing that ethiopia, kenya, western powers were behind our mishaps......... SO, TO CUT THIS SHORT: SOMALIS ARE SOMALIA'S ENEMY NUMERO UNO........THE OTHERS ARE SUGUNTO, TERSO ETC
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| | Thursday, November 30, 2000 - 02:39 am Fivo Ehiopians, Do you want me to support peace process which was initited or supported by our enemy arbas(LIbiya, yemen) who were behind killing of hundred thousands of somalina in baidoba and Mogadishu though The late Aidid. So what ever Ehiopia was yesterday is not today. Fianly all ican say is yesterday Aidid and today Abdiqasim whom libiya is trying to equip inorder to finssh the rest of somalians or to give his(Habargidir) followers opprtunity ti escapw what they did to us as a country. Peace. Ehiopian hanoolaato Libiya iyo Yemen hadhacdo
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| | Thursday, November 30, 2000 - 05:53 am Dont know much about history,dont know much about Biology,dont know much about mathmatics,dont know much about phsyiology,but i know that i love you.DuH! Besides.....Ethiopians smell nasty and the yemens are too too too short.Shorter than dwarfs.
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| | Thursday, November 30, 2000 - 07:52 am MAD MAC, I did expect you to say that after all you got nothing at stake here. You accept that Ogaden should never have been a part of Ethiopia and that is the bottom line of the whole issue here.No cosmetic autonomy that Ethiopia grants the people of that region will ever change the above mentioned fact. As far as Eritera goes, I am not the right person to judge whether they did the right thing or not, as a matter of principle I would rather go hungry and be indepedent then to have my belly stuffed but live under occupation. MAD MAC, you have never seen what it is like to live under occupation. coming to the autonomy and self governance that you talk of in Ethiopia, do you think that these regional administrations have powers to implement what they feel is good for the people?. The Addisababa regime has advisors in evrey regional administration and they are the ones who call the shots, this is sham Mr. MAD MAC. This is not America or any other democratic country where states have some degree of freedom from federal govt, clearly defined in the constituition. Mr. Wanaagsane we are not saying Ethiopia is to be blamed for our chaos but we just need to watch out for our interests and make sure we are not caught unaware. Ramadaan Kariim.
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| | Thursday, November 30, 2000 - 12:14 pm Check this link out. http://onlf.somalitalk.com/2000/november/30112000.html
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| | Thursday, November 30, 2000 - 01:34 pm I know some good Ethiopians. All the dead ones.
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| | Thursday, November 30, 2000 - 09:44 pm All the factions in Somalia have been armed by Ethiopia. All the warlords in Somalia freely go to Addis Ababa for all kinds of favours. All the Somali warlords fall over themselves to actually solicit these favours and more while in return they are willing to give off their ass; Witness Egal offering unconditional use of Berbera Port, Witness A. Yusuf of the infamous Puntland offering Bosaso + his ass to the Ethiopians, Shatigaduud wants Ethiopian tanks to help him capture Kismayo in exchange for free access to it's port, even Musa Suudi thinks he can be the President of Somalia by promising to Ethiopia 99 year lease on Mogadishu Port....the list is long. In short Land locked/Christian Ethiopia has always been fingering the assshole of the Somali Nation... and I think this will continue for as long as there are 'Somali' people pulling down the trousers of the Somali Nation. Poison
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| | Thursday, November 30, 2000 - 10:32 pm The recent droughts that hit OGADENIA and the slow response from ethiopia could be a sign of their attrocity toward us, they will never stop nor be tired of denying our right as somalis in somalia and somalis in OGADENIA!!
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| | Thursday, November 30, 2000 - 11:27 pm assalamu calaykum: Well, somalis have been brought up to think that Ethiopians were second to warthogs....I have been taught through religious/political indoctrination that Ethiopians are around to eradicate all somalis from this world...... Some of those accusations were true but, what I was not told was this: -the somalis were cannibals: they maim, kill, murder one another. -they blaim others for their misfortunes -the somalis were fond of blaming other races/governments for the evils they do one another. the list goes on...... Don't get me wrong, the Ethiopians and kenyans will do everything to get their country rid of somalis..They use measures such as starvation, killing, etc.... after all somalis are busy killing themsleves.......... have you heard of this phrase:? anigoo ooynaayo ayaa sac seenta igu dhuftay. so, this my thesis: somalis are somalia's enemy nummero uno..........
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| | Monday, December 04, 2000 - 11:20 pm Faysal Try, just try, and be practical here. Somalia can not free the Ogaden through armed force. Nor can you liberate the NFD through armed force. Kenya and Ethiopia are larger than Somalia and they have useful friends. Somalia has a smaller populatin base, is poorer and has lousy friends. If you insist of fighting over the Ogaden this is what you'll get: Continued violence. Increased Poverty Unstable Security situation Unstable political situation in Somalia as Ethiopians work to undermine Somali stability. What you won't get is the Ogaden. Ethiopia will just crack down that much harder. If you back off this is what you might get: Stable government (if you can work through your other problems). Better economy (you don't spend all of your wealth on guns and ammo). Less violence. Then, if you can start working with the Ethiopians, looking at them as potential trading partners and friends as oppossed to historical enemies and cut-throats, you can start working on a negotiated settlement. Maybe even get a plebescite, which would certainly return the Ogaden to Somalia. The peoples of the Horn need to start learning to work together and not against each other if they don't want to remain poverty stricken and primitive. You offer no solutions, only the hope for more death and violence in a place that already has way too much of that.
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| | Tuesday, December 05, 2000 - 08:47 am MAD MAC, You are trying to use scare tactics here, wanting me to believe that if I don't renounce my long standing principled stand on Ogaden and Somalia's unity I am doomed and if we don't work with Ethiopia to the determinant of the Somali people's interest than heavens will fall, don't buy that . While I thank you for showing interest in this I would also like to tell you that we know what we want and how to get it. Ethiopia can't do more harm than it has already done and if we have been able to ride through the rough times in the past I see no reason why we should have any problems riding through what ever lies ahead. Going on a trip to Ethiopia( I run the risk of being arrested and prosecuted for my political views) and will catch up with you all guys soon, Insha Allah before the end of Ramadan. l
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| | Tuesday, December 05, 2000 - 08:54 am Thanks to Shatigadud or whoever initiated this discussion, it has been nice knowing what evreyone feels about this and sharing our views on something as sensitive as this. Keep up the good job and wish me good luck ( that I return safely),lol Faysal
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| | Tuesday, December 05, 2000 - 01:10 pm mad mac!! Lets not forget the saying that said ethiopia dont understand languege of talk but fire, i dont think the ethiopia of melez zenawi is negotiatable,ithiopian regimes never thought what are the interest of their people,if we somalis do we want ethiopian land?do we want be the empire of horn of africa?the answer is no. what we want ethiopian people is to stope the slaugter going on in ogadenia let that people for selv determination,without that you must only expect us no flower or frienship but fire. i wish ethiopia would have revised its policies of hate.
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| | Tuesday, December 05, 2000 - 01:10 pm mad mac!! Lets not forget the saying that said ethiopia dont understand languege of talk but fire, i dont think the ethiopia of melez zenawi is negotiatable,ithiopian regimes never thought what are the interest of their people,if we somalis do we want ethiopian land?do we want be the empire of horn of africa?the answer is no. what we want ethiopian people is to stope the slaugter going on in ogadenia let that people for selv determination,without that you must only expect us no flower or frienship but fire. i wish ethiopia would have revised its policies of hate.
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| | Tuesday, December 05, 2000 - 11:52 pm BN / Faysal I understand you know what you want. And I am sympathetic to the Somali side of the issue. But I do not believe you know how to get it. If you want to undermine another governments policy and you are in the right, then embrace them as a friend. They will surely collapse from within. This happened to the Soviet Union (remember Detente?). This is why the US policy vis-a-cis Cuba is wrong. We should be sending tourist there, conducting trade there. Castro wouldn't be able to control the information his people were getting. He wouldn't be able to stop the import of new ideas. Pretty soon things would fall apart and he'd be on the outside looking in. Instead, we make it easy for him to close out foreign ideas.
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| | Tuesday, December 05, 2000 - 11:55 pm BTW Faysal Keep your head down buddy. Looking forward to seeing you on the net again. As long as you carry a US passport and don't pop off too much, they won't arrest you. But make sure you check in with the US embassy right when you first get there. That way your absence will be noticed if you disappear. Insha Allah all will go well.
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