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     | Thursday, November 30, 2000 - 04:54 pm Assalaamu Alaikum, I have not posted anything on this site for quite some time. So accept my warmest greetings and Ramadaan Kariim. To come to my objective, I would like to know why Somali people from Somalia Proper have this hostile view of Somaliland and its people? I make this allegation not out of thin air, but the negative and deplorable topics of this SomaliNeT Forum. So can any one please tell me where this hatred stems from? Let me remind you we are in the Holy Month of Ramadan, thus we must even more so refrain from vindictive and evil deeds. The way I see it, most Somali people from Somalia Proper are down right oblivious about Somaliland. They only have vague and misinformed ideas about it. Furthermore, it seems they cannot comprehend the logic in reclaiming one's Sovereignty. Now I speak to the elite, once there is a referendum - which the outcome I am most certain will show the desire of the people of Somaliland to preserve their independence - what will be your reaction? Wassalam Wa bilaahi Towfiiq
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| | Thursday, November 30, 2000 - 05:52 pm Mr = T-girL
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| | Thursday, November 30, 2000 - 06:08 pm MR Ignore these southerners,they only hide under their southern sweet Hospitality charms.We know they need some education and maybe some manners on how to use Restaurant Dinner table utensils.First use the,Napkin,anckles on the table,pick up the folk on your right hand,and a light table knife on your left hand.
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| | Thursday, November 30, 2000 - 06:12 pm I only said anckles on the table because i would think coming from a savage south backround it will take time to get use to new manners.Normally.........anckles are not supposed to be on the table.Bad manners!
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| | Thursday, November 30, 2000 - 06:26 pm to anonymous WAAR BAL IIGA SHEEKEEYA WAXA ANONYMOUSTAN MEEL WALBA DHIGAY MIYAA LAGU DHALAY MEESHA TOLOOW? CAJIIIIIIIIIIB.
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| | Thursday, November 30, 2000 - 08:24 pm to MR: brother is the other way round. it is not the somalis that hate the Northern ppl it is the northern ppl who hate the southeners. u blame all somalians for what happened to u guys in 1988. which is very wrong
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| | Friday, December 01, 2000 - 08:17 am Assalaamu Alaikum, Ms Hargeisa, sis you are out of line. Please do not insult any one. In addition, I hope you apologize. Libaax, you didn't answer my question. Scroll up and try once again. Having said that, I have an additional questions; who is to blame for 1988? Who is to blame for the atrocities and the use of excessive fire power (i.e. MIG's)? Who is responsible for the South African mercenaries? Siad Barre alone?? I think not! Wassalam Wa bilaahi Towfiiq.
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| | Friday, December 01, 2000 - 09:57 am mr you talk to much
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| | Friday, December 01, 2000 - 11:02 am Look you ignorant idiots Mr and ms Hargeisa. I have family from both parts of Somalia; South, and so called Somaliland. And I strongly disagree with the idea of a divided Somalia, cause Somalia is stronger united. I really don't pay to much attention to claims that people from the so called Somaliland make about them getting their own nation. Cause lets be seroius if it was going to happen it would have happened a long time ago. Other nations except Ethiopia have already said they would never recognize you guys as a seperate nation so give it up.
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| | Friday, December 01, 2000 - 11:05 am aka honic, nigga why u hate on us?????????
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| | Friday, December 01, 2000 - 11:15 am i agree with AKA honic, i myself is from the north yet i think somalia is greater as one nation.
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| | Friday, December 01, 2000 - 11:17 am MS. Hargeisa, you really need to grow up and educate yourself, cause if there were any somalis that need training in manners, and so on it is the people that live in the south. Remember before the war Mogadishu was the biggest, and most modern city, while you people almost lived on the street. Now I don't say all this to be rude or anything, but I really hate it when idiots like you get to us a computer and express their ignorant views. And to Mr. you must remember even though it was not just Siad Barrie that acted alone, everyone under his control at the time thought he was doing the right thing. There are dictators all over the world, Hitler, Castrol, Sadaam, and many more. These men have done worst stuff to there own then Siad Barrie, but were still very popular. It is just a matter of how good the dictator and bull$hit his way around, and how good he can pay people that work for him to keep doing the evil things they are doing. Oh and you must remember that was all in the past, sure people died some of my family from the North too, but people die everyday. You must learn to move on; look in the case of the USA, the whites used to own slaves, but don't do that any longer cause they learned that is bad. So is it okay for black people to hate every white human being, even if they weren't involved in the slave trade.
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| | Friday, December 01, 2000 - 11:28 am to Mr: to answer your question: it was the government that was responsible for what happened in 1988. SNM wanted to overthrow the government that is why it happened. and i ask u the same question: who do u think was responsible? i think i already know your answer. u r going to say all somalians were responsible, i could be wrong but i feel your answer will be like that, since so many people from the north believe that it was somalia as a whole responsible for what happened
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| | Friday, December 01, 2000 - 01:34 pm the people of norhtern somalia before they freed the british colonge dreamed of making one greater somali nation.in (1960) five days after independence day,the norhtern people formed the nation they dreamed about,without hesitation. Even knowing and ignoring the potential risk and the difference between them and the (south).in (1960)integration was disadvantage to northern people,1'st they dumped their master colonge(british)over a strange and dummy master(italy)who even couldn't provide a primary school in (south),2'nd they lost a better administrational system,educational and law. 3'rd 30yrs instead of moving forward,they fallen backwards.despite of all that they still brought unity(1960),so now you (south)people owe (s/lander)AND it's yr time to find (somaliWEYN)and may allah help you SOUTH 'cause yr on the wrong path for (somaliWEYN). to MR.yr answer is simple, southern people never credit or recognize any efforts or hard work came frm yr region,seriously,example,the unity you brought in(1960),the hard work they done for us and other somalis musa galal,mohamood ahmed ali and also the role you(north)played to form somali(SUUGAAN)and(POEMS)all that was never rewarded you'cuz you belong to tribe they hated, but they(south)recognized and credit it the man,who killed yr gran mam(sayidkii),they may as well recognize AYDID'cuz he fought with gaalo too. my love goes out to all somalis out there,stay strong mather suckers.one more thing a poem in1960 wuxuu yidhi. [ADOO GURI BARWAAQO AH,GEEL DHALEY KU HASYTA. [GEEDI LAMA LALABOO,ABAAR LOOMA GUUREE. [WIXII ILA GARAADOW,GOBONIMO HA TUURINA.
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| | Friday, December 01, 2000 - 05:45 pm To: Mr. why do not you ask the devious politician schemer of all time Igaal? wasn't he a member of Siyad bare regime? You posted here a referendum about the wish of so-called Somaliland. I am from North of Somalia and I believe strongly the unity of our country but to be reason with you Is there such a thing called Somalilander or you have a six clans Dhulbahante, isaak gudubursi ise warsangali and gaboye? If so where does the consensus or lack of it with respect of secession lie?foreign and naive Somalis could be misled by this name and the illusion of non existent nation. Later
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| | Saturday, December 02, 2000 - 07:12 am MR, IT'S THINGS LIKE THIS WHICH STARTED ALL THE WARS IN SOMALIA. I DIDN'T THINK THAT THE YOUNG GENERATION STILL THOUGH LIKE THIS. IT JUST PROVES MY POINT THAT, IF PEOPLE LIKE YOU GET BACK TO SOMALIA, THERE WILL NEVER BY PEACE. NO PEACE HOME, AS LONG AS EVERYONE IS CONCERNED WITH QABIL AND QOOLO ( EXCUSE MU SPELLING). I'M BASICALLY SAYING TRIBES CAUSED THE PROBLEMS. SOMALI PEOPLE CLAIM NOT TO BE RACIST, BUT THEY SHOW THAT THEY ARE BY BUTCHERING AND SLAYING THEIR OWN PEOPLE. THIS NEEDS TO STOP.
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| | Saturday, December 02, 2000 - 07:14 am AK HONIC, WHO CARES WHAT THE FLIPPING ETHOPIANS THINK OF SOMALILAND? I HOPE U AIN'T LISTENING TO PEOPLE WHO ARE PROSPERING DUE TO OUR MISFORTUNES.
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| | Saturday, December 02, 2000 - 09:27 am Assalaamu Alaikum, Once again, I urge you all to please stop the insults. I plead and I beg you, otherwise our discussion will be fruitless. Please, if you have nothing constructive to say, don't bother saying it at all. AKA HONIC, brother you just reinforced my assumption the problem lies with people from Somalia's lack of knowledge of Somaliland. You state and I quote " I really don't pay to much attention to claims that people from the so called Somaliland make about them getting their own nation." Now, if you don't pay any attention how can you solve this dilemma? Second you blame Siad Barre and say he was a brilliant dictator that is why we followed him! Amazing! Please don't insult our intelligence. Libaax, you still did not answer my questions. They were: why so much hate on SomaliNet Forum, what will be your response to a referendum that returns the Somaliland peoples choice for re-claiming their sovereignty? Now you tell me it was the government's fault for 1988? Who was in the government? Who was in the Army? Who was making orders? Who was in charge? Who is responsible for the mines that 10 years latter reek havoc on innocent children as they play? AKA HONIC says don't dwell in the past, but how can you not notice when there are mass graves being discovered to this day? Just in the summer there was once again another mass grave found in Erigavo. Who is responsible? Ice-Man, you are entitled to your opinion. Frankly your stance of united Somalia and united Somalis is a NOBLE and remarkable idea. I cannot in anyway disagree with you. However, TIME has proven that UNITED SOMALIA that includes Djibouti, Somaliland, Somalia, Western Somalia, NFD is unattainable at the present moment. Somalis lack the maturity to understand being united. Let me remind you, when Somaliland and Somalia united it was an illegal merger for there was no binding agreement both sides agreed upon. The parliament passed a constitution in which Somalilander in every city either boycotted or returned a NO VOTE. That was in 1961, none the less we preserved the union because we thought sooner or later people from Somalia proper would realize SOMALI is SOMALI no matter where he comes from. Unfortunately that was not the case as we had Siad Barre and his crusade in eliminating segments of Somaliland's population. Even before Siad Barre, the man every Somali likes to qoute, Timacade, left parlaiment because of its blatant disregard for nationalism in 1963. Ice-Man, you tell me you want a united Somalia, that is fine but you are only allowed one vote, and when the referendum is held if the overwhelming majority choose to be in Somaliland what is your response? Acuudu Bilaah, I don't know what I have said that is wrong? I am not enticing war, I am speaking about issues that I see are important and that must be dealt with. People must learn to have mutual respect for one another regardless of their opposing opinions. To every one of you, I wish to point to the fact that Somaliland and its people have been in a coma for 31 years and it has been only this last decade they have awakened. You see the education system was much better back in 1960, so was the healthcare, so was everything else. Now if the people of Somaliland have an alternative to the chaos and the vicious competition in Somalia why must you insist for them -against their will- to stay in the fold? Wassalam Wa bilaahi Towfiiq
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| | Saturday, December 02, 2000 - 09:45 am To: Mr. You are right in a way,allow me to give you my appology.Whatever you say,my mind has been made up,somaliland should not be separate at all.The coma you are talking about is ignorance,and i am glad you iidoors are not ignorant anymore.You see we south have always be awake and nothing has changed.FAK YOU. Later
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| | Saturday, December 02, 2000 - 01:20 pm Yo, I would like to say to Mr. that the ideas you've brought up are some what relevent. My mother is from the south, and my father from the north, so I know about the dilemma of whether Somaliland should stay separate or join the rest of Somalia. In the present I say it should stay separate, until our YOUNGER AND MORE EDUCATED generation decides to rebuild a greater and united Somalia based on religious and clan tolerence. That could only happen if we not forget the past, but forgive. S*%$ happens, MOVE ON. PS: BS MAN, stop with your prosouth stands brother, let's build a bridge that has been damaged.
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| | Saturday, December 02, 2000 - 02:26 pm Hello everyone That was not me who posted To: Mr. and others.... HEY ICE-MAN wanna be find a name you bastard instead of pretending me coward. To :Mr Referendum will not happen in The North of Somalia because we do not believe So-called somaliland and if we do its like accepting the colony. its like saying the British were right to colonize and divide our nation. My response will be will the Unity of Somalia is not negotiable. Mr.the Unity of Somalia has nothing to do with civil war. sometimes politician screw up. But if certain tribes want to cast their vote they have a right to do so but it will not bring a Nation.what was Somaliland prior the British colonizer in 1884? Are we going to say every time we have a civil war the solution will be create another mini state? Are you willing to offend those who shed their blood in The North so we can get independent and freedom by diving our nation? How can you Achieve Greater Somalia MR. if you are willing to separate two regions we have now? To me its like accepting Again colonization by separating our nation and I cannot stand for that PS: Again That imposter who posted above Listen Punk get a life bastard and be wise to get your own name believe me I do not run coward like you I will have my name name no matter what you write Later
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| | Saturday, December 02, 2000 - 06:17 pm I am drying the tears of my face now(LOL). Mr I really feel sorry for you, I mean you think as if the only people to have suffered during the ''civil war'' in Somalia are the Northerners. Look I did not say Siad Barrie was a brilliant dictator, what I said was you must remember that he didn't act alone. To stay in power he did anything; even pay lots of money to people that could help him stay in power, even if that meant killing. Now I don't agree with what happened in general to Somalia, but we must learn to move on. I have never been to Somalia ever, but when people like you talk about separate states, it is like blaming me for what happened in North Somalia. Not everyone in Somalia agreed with what happened in North Somalia as a matter of fact I would say 99% don't like the killing that happened in that region. So what the best logical solution is to work with your brothers from all over Somalia, and make a positive thing happen. The good hearted people in Somalia out number the evil people by 99%. So if we come together we could make Somalia a very respectable, rich nation; but if we keep dividing ourselves over something not everyone agreed with, them we will keep make space for warlords, and tribes to keep controlling the future of our nation.
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| | Sunday, December 03, 2000 - 07:39 am Assalaamu Alaikum, OUTOFTOWNER, my intentions are not to seek sympathy. Far from that, I want to know why it is so difficult to respect one another despite the events that have occurred. You said •••• happens, MOVE ON. Well Somaliland has DONE THAT. Ice-Man, you scare me brother. I don't mean it. You say, "Referendum will not happen in The North of Somalia because we do not believe So-called somaliland." Amazing! You speak for the entire population! Then you go on and say "and if we do its like accepting the colony. its like saying the British were right to colonize and divide our nation. My response will be will the UNITY OF SOMALIA IS NOT NEGOTIABLE." Ice-Man, you have a problem my friend and its called accepting reality. When a VOTE happens, most RATIONAL people accept the outcomes regardless how they voted. In this case if the referendum does return a YES VOTE for re-claiming our Sovereignty then THAT WILL BE WHAT HAPPENS. Furthermore you confuse Somalia and Somaliland with a single country! What happened was not a civil WAR! It was an invasion! Somaliland has been like the WEST BANK, an OCCUPIED TERRITORY. The question to YOU IS WHO PUT GREATER SOMALIA IN A COFFIN AND WHO GAVE BIRTH TO IT? AKA HONIC, I said no insults so you became sarcastic.  AKA HONIC, I like you a lot, HONEST. I really, really like you. You know why because you are the perfect example of what I speak of. You have absolutely no CONCRETE KNOWLEDGE about SOMALIA or SOMALILAND. You have never been there! The problem with people from SOMALIA is, they cannot distinguish GOVERNMENT VS ITS PEOPLE and CLANS VS CLANS. What happened when Somalia fought over tribes is not the same as when a government committed genocide against its people. Now I see the light bulb flicker in AKA HONIC'S head and he thinks " The government fought the people in Mudug and Bari!" Yes that's a fact, but nevertheless the magnitude of the problem was not the SAME. Two-Thirds of the entire national ARMY never leveled the cities, nor where there BOMBER PLANES involved. Since you are a comic, I hope you understand when I say, BIG SOUND, BIG SCREEN, BIG DIFFERENCE! AKA HONIC, the last thing you want to do is make up some percentages that are UNFOUNDED. The same 99% that you allude to were calling people from the north " XABADI KEENTO". In your mind I guess that is a red carpet with a big WELCOME ! Wassalam Wa Bilaahi TowFiiq
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| | Sunday, December 03, 2000 - 10:03 am WHAT WHAT, SOMALILAND GO AHEAD AND SEPERATE. YOU TRIED AND YOU FAILED. TIME TO COME HOME DONT YOU THINK TEN YEARS WAS ENOUGH. OTHERWISE KEEP HOPE ALIVE AND BE LIKE JESSE I AM SOMEBODY. PATHETIC LOL EITHER WAY SOMALIA IS COMING BACK TO LIFE AND WE WILL BECOME A NATION. VIVA PRES QASSIM. VIVA VICE PRESS GALAYR.
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| | Sunday, December 03, 2000 - 11:46 am First of all let me start off by saying this to Mr. and any other Somali person in here. I do not hate you guys, I have nothing against any of you; the second thing I would like to say is just because I have never been to Somalia doesn't mean I don't know anything about it. When I say Somaliland has no business trying to separate, I am speaking from both the Northern and Southern points of view. I don't know if I already told you or not, but I have people in my family from both regions of Somalia. On top of that I also have a lot of friends from the two regions, and let me tell you I have heard more so called Somalilanders saying they want Somalia as a united country then anyone saying they want Somalia to be united. The only reason I argue with you about this topic is because, you represent the minority that believe by separating and running from your problems you will live a happier life. That sadly is not the true, Somalia stands to gain more united then divided. I could go on almost forever giving you a list of benefits a united Somalia can gain, but I am left almost most blank when I try to think of how any region of Somalia would ever survive alone. I am not saying it is impossible, but with what happened to Somalia, it is going to be very hard to rebound from a horrible civil war like the one we had. And if someone hasn't already told you running from the problem will never end it, if Somaliland separates now then 20 even 50 years from now the tribe wars will still be going on. If we come together as smarter, educated people that have seen the worst of the worst, and try to once and for all get rid of Somalias tribe system then we could leave in harmony. Oh and let me remind you, every get nation has been through civil war before. America has been through civil war, similar to what we have going; North and South, but when it was all said and done they came together and ended it, look were they are now.
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| | Sunday, December 03, 2000 - 01:59 pm SOMALILAND MEN THEY CHEW ALL NIGHT AND SUCK MY DIECK ALL DAY. THEY ALL FU-CKED UP. COME SUCK ON MY ANACONDA. I WOULD ALWAYS WELCOME YOU TO SUCK ME ANYTIME. BRING YO MAMAS TOO
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| | Sunday, December 03, 2000 - 02:26 pm to honic,stop beating around the push and acting such a naeve person.we all know if we reunion and stay togather as a one nation,we stand strong. but wat if one of us won't let us stay strong and the other hand won't let us remaind separate??and wat about if we can't get alone togahter and each region (south)/(north) better off without the other??let me give you some feedback yo,aight. MR mentioned a Q?? above if u scrul up will c it. he said who put in a COFFIN and GAVE BIRTH to (somWEYN)???the answer i look it frm u.also AFWEYNE was managed to put hatred between the local tribes so he can live longer and finally he was out,but his lagecy lives till now,so in 1991 the northen region people known as(s/land) to day managed to destroy that hatred and made peace with the local clans,in 1991 all the local clans in norhtern region gathered in berbara,then held a second meeting in burco,then borama and the out came of those meetings first produced a peace and stability in the region and second it gave them a administration and order in the region.all this efforts and acheivements intirely came frm them without any help frm outside.brother look the south to day with all the international help and money that's pouring in and yet can't make a peace and destroy AFWEYNE'S lagecy b4 they construct any government.all iam saying is bro b4 we do any a reunion atleast proof it that(south)can stand on his feetfirst.remember when north gained its independence in 1960 they waited five days south to get its independence and the other hand carried their freedom,so south wat have you give them back and rewarded to them???.just like i said b4 SOUTH it's yr turn to find somWEYNE,how don't ask us,but omar galle will show you the right path to somWEYNE if you insist him.
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| | Sunday, December 03, 2000 - 08:16 pm CoolPoison does not write in CAPITALS! Appologies Somaliland People. It is that ugly whore T-Girl who is pretending to be me. Poison in Buckingham Palace.
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| | Sunday, December 03, 2000 - 11:41 pm TO Mr FIRST OF ALL I DON'T HATE SOMALILAND AND I DON'T THINK THEY HATE ME.. THE END THE QUESTION OF SOMALILAND'S INDEPENDENCE, IT SHOULD BE DECIDED BY SOMALILANDERS( EVERY SOMALILANDER)...IT'S THEIR LAND AND IT'S DEMOCRACY. I AM SAYING THIS COZ IT'S THE FAIREST SOLUTION, THOUGH I KNOW I AM GOING TO FIND IT HARD TO SWALLOW WHEN THE RESULTS TURN UP IN FAVOUR OF INDEPENDENCE. ANYWAY, WHAT IS BETTER THAN HAVING TWO STRONG SOMALI REPUBLICS COOPERATING FOR GOOD. RAMADAN KARIIM
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| | Monday, December 04, 2000 - 12:04 am assalamu calaykum: I am neither a southener or northener... I am a somali refugee living in a country where a few speak somali.. here comes a few thoughts about this burning issue that I hate to debate: I would like you people to differentiate between somalis as people and somalia as a country. There is no hatred between somalis.....infact there is nothing called somalilander, somalianproper, puntlander etc....This a misconceptious idea´, and further strengthens the idea of tribalism, which is killing us. To come to your questions MR. I would like to know why Somali people from Somalia Proper have this hostile view of Somaliland and its people? I DOUBT WHETHER PEOPLE ONE ANOTHER...BUT POLTICIANS AND WARLORDS WHO HAVE NOTHING TO GAIN BY PEACE AND UNITY ARE USING THE ISSUES OF NORTH AND SOUTH TO STRENGTHEN THEIR POWER BASE.....somalis as you know are scattered all over the world, so, I can't see no reason why the somalis cannot live in any part of somalia. "Now I speak to the elite, once there is a referendum - which the outcome I am most certain will show the desire of the people of Somaliland to preserve their independence - what will be your reaction?" WHO ARE THE ELITE?....WHAT REFERENDUM?.WHY ARE U CERTAIN OF THE OUTCOME?....WHICH INDEPENDENCE AND FROM WHOM?...DO I SENCE THE SAME SORT OF LANGUAGE USED BY WARLORDS?.....I have this hypothesis that, any somali of average intelligence will preserve to keep the unity of the somali people (NB...not land but ppl).....What purpose does an independent state serve?....I am sure every somali will benefit from a peacefull , prosperous and progressive north... I BELEIEVE THAT PEOPLE IN THE NORTH AS WELL AS THE SOUTH NEED LASTING PEACE WITH THEMSELVES AND OTHER SOMALIS..... SOMALIA'S PROBLEM IS NOT GETTING INDEPENDENCE BUT A CURE OF TRIBALISM AS ACCUUDI...METIONED... WHO CAUSED THE EVENTS OF 1988?...who caused millions of somalis to leave their country?.....greed, nepotism, and above tribalism...... so, let us stop this debate of north and south and instead embark on a mission ......to free somalis from the evils of tribalism...... Ramadaan kariim..
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| | Monday, December 04, 2000 - 02:48 pm Finally someone that understands me; wanaagsane I have been trying to convince Mr. for the longest time to give up this one sided mentality and think about what is good for Somalia, but he for some reason just wants to avoid talking logically and keeps asking for a sperate nation. Brother Mr I hope one day you see what I have come to realize, believe me I used to be a pro Somalilander, until I thought to myself Somalia's problems will never go away until we unite and face them head on.
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| | Monday, December 04, 2000 - 04:54 pm aka honic, lets just say that the south needs to take caare of own problems until it can reach the promise and peace of the north, know stop talking •••• and start think of ur ppl. yes we should unite, but not until u southerns can put ur act to gether and stop, remeber the fighting in XAmar r between ppl of the same tribe(hawiya) so shut up, we r seperated so let us grow to beocme a powerful and rich nation
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| | Tuesday, December 05, 2000 - 09:44 am to AKA HONIC you don't deserve to be responded and it's a waste of time to MR or other people on this forums to respond yr opinion 'cause first you are diseased and leaving AFWEYNE's legacy,second i seen yr other posts regarding s/landers on this forums and i know yr problems are not the separation of this region but it's a hatred that is bothering you, and if you just scroll up on this list,you said the minority believe separation technically you just sound like yr uncle AFWEYNE 'cause he used to sell cheap stories to somalis like in 1988 when SNM crushed in his best rangers in the north,he said to the media,those are just few BURCAD,their not even somali and the region is very stable,also somali football league in 1988,he said the north regions are in the league while they were chased by a bombers,anyway moda sucker if we united with south you still love to see us burn in hell, right.no more responses frm on now you are ignored.
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| | Tuesday, December 05, 2000 - 10:50 am I really don't care what any of you people think is my reason for wanting Somalia to unite. I have said before and I will say again I just want my people to stick together. Oh and Burcaawi, you say I want Somaliland to stay united with the rest of Somalia because of my hate for the northerners. Come on brother lets use logical thinking, if I hated the people from the North then why would I want them to stay united with me. And plus I have said many times that I also have a lot of family born in Hargesia. I have to many different tribes in my family for me to be siding with one of them instead of the other one. My Somali people from the North until you have suffered what the Native Americans in North America suffered, and what the blacks suffered during slavery, and the Jews; then please never complain. America has gone through civil war between the North and South, they have gone through slavery, they have gone through fights with Indians over land, and Mexicans over land. And after all that they have set their differences aside to unite and talk like educated people and become the richest nation on the face of the Earth. We have not seen even half of what has happened in America, Rwanda and other African countries and we still talk like we have seen it all. You Burcaawi are the ignorant, racist mined person.
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| | Tuesday, December 05, 2000 - 02:28 pm First of all let me start off by saying that I have read all the commentaries. In each one I've noticed that all of the brothers and sisters have brought up good points. But what we have to realize is that there is no right or wrong answer to the question of whether the north should be one country and the south should be another. I personally believe that Somalia should remain one country; since it would beneficial to rebuilding process of our country. But then again we must look at the point that maybe things are not working out the way they are, maybe a referendom and serpartion would be the best solution for both sides. I just think as Somalis our leadears need to come together and put all this clan garbage behind them and discuss what would be the best solution for both us as Somalis. That raises another point to me maybe the leaders that we have now are not doing the best possible job, maybe they are just looking out for their personal gain and not for the well-being of our people.....is it time for a change?????? Maybe what we need is new mentality.....I don't know what everyone else thinks thats those are just my feelings. Nuff luv & respect always, SPARKLE*
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| | Tuesday, December 05, 2000 - 05:30 pm Assalaamu Alaikum, First I would like to thank every one who is participating for not resorting to insults for the most part. I urge you once again to resist such temptations! Please don't take this personal. People there is nothing in wanting a united Somalia. However it is not practical because our 31-year experiment with it under a democracy and a dictatorship resulted in disgrace. At this point I think a brief history lesson is in order. Why, because when you have never been there (like AKA HONIC) you cannot imagine what it is like. Somaliland and Somalia's merger was dismal from its inception. The will of the Somaliland people was ignored as I stated before on the referendum of the 1961 constitution. Then the limited benefits from British colonialism were abolished. For intense the remarkably high standard education was dismantled and the boarding schools in Somaliland were shut down. The universal language of English ceased to be taught in school and replaced with Italian. In this period from 1960-1967, apart from robbing the people of Somaliland their political and educational rights, corruption was introduced. At the height of it all a political cockroach (current President of Somaliland) Mr. Egal quickly learned the rules of the game and won big in 1967-1969. Then came Mr Barre and his reign of terror. As one foreigner who traveled through out Somalia in 1985 clearly noted, that the north seemed to be a colony of Somalia. People were arrested for trying to rebuild neglected government institutions, as was the case in 1981 for the group who tried to rehabilitate Hargeisa's Group Hospital. In addition, people's wealth, homes and even their wives were confiscated. Not to mention the curfews, the rapping and the wide spread searches in homes. This is what we grew up with. Then we witnessed 1988. Columns of refugees as they fled were bombed like sitting ducks. The cities were totally destroyed and leveled to the ground. So you would think, the worst is over? No, there is more. Once again without consultation with the people of Somaliland, Ali Mahdi was crowned in Djibouti as President. It didn't end there, Aidid denounced this proclamation and you would think he would bring Somalis together. No he crowned himself the President. Among the rubble the people of Somaliland could not continue to go through this revolving door that leads to injustice. So the people of Somaliland demand Somaliland's sovereignty be restored. No political dinosaur whether it be President Egal or what have you, can change the people's decision. The reconciliation conferences that took place in 1991, 1993 and 1997 bore tangible results for the citizens of Somaliland. For the first time in history, there are two universities. For the first time, people can sleep without clan animosity. You have 5 different clans that share a common vision and a common administration, for Somali standards that's an unparalleled achievement. Even if you try to implement the noble idea of Pan-Somalia, it is impossible with people from Somalia Proper electing war criminals like AbdiQasim, the Interior Minister who ordered the bombing in Somaliland and a 19-year Minister under Siad Barre. Along with Gani, and Morgan as parliamentarians. It seems like the more things change, the more they stay the same. The way I see it, lets learn to live as neighbors first before we become ambitious. Lets for the first time take a fair referendum and respect the voice of the people. Wassalam Wa Bilaahi TowFiiq P.S. Sparkle thanks for your point of view sister.
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| | Tuesday, December 05, 2000 - 05:53 pm To Ice-Man First things first - you are the biggest liar I have ever encountered - you are worse than Bill Clinton himself. One minute you are from Somalia, and the other minute you are from Somaliland. If you are really from Somaliland and you are really a member of the minority then don't be afraid - remember this: minority right, majority rule. I smell something Ice Man, and it smells like bullshit. Let's get one thing straight, Somaliland has been independent for the last 10 years. You say Indepedence is not negotiable, but who cares what you think? I am a proud man from Somaliland, and I don't need wannabes like you disrespecting my people. Who knows? Maybe you're not even Somali. You could be some crazy idiot from Bangladesh for all we know. If you want to discuss real issues with real people, then I suggest you open your eyes and pay attention to reality, not fantasy.
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| | Tuesday, December 05, 2000 - 06:10 pm Bismillahi - Ramadan Kariim All! "Mr" I think you're looking for a truly comprehensive answer to that wicked of all questions: why do Somalis hate Somalilanders? To answer that, you must first ask yourself another question: who are Somalilanders? Are you referring to the Isaaq, Gadabursi, Dhulbahante, Warsangeli, etc.? Most probably, you're referring to the Isaaq. Correct me if I'm wrong. Let me tell you a story that hopefully proves my point: I was working with a young Somali guy. He was Isaaq but born and raised in Kenya (Sujuu). A few months before I got hired at the job, fellow Somalis told him about his clan and everthing because he had no idea (he was 21 or 22). 1 day at work, two very attractive women (American) walked in. He immediately trotted over to them, but said this to me before he left: "Waa laba Isaaq." What? Some guys who weren't even from his clan taught him who he was and know he's gonna choose two of the most attractive women and say they're Isaaq? Do you get? And, oh yea, first time I asked him where he was born he said Hargeysa. Hold up, dude had never set foot on Somali soil, forget Hargeysa. Get my point, and this is a true story I will never forget, its Ramadaan and if I'm lying Allah put me in Hell. But this is my point: the Isaaq are too over-proud of their accomplishments. And the way Egal's gov't his heading looks like the path of Communism with a building, massive army to crush down all personal freedoms. I warn you of the consequences. I look forward to your reply "Mr" Yuusuf, Somali Nationalist
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| | Wednesday, December 06, 2000 - 09:02 am TO haka honic, you said if s/landers would suffer same as the jewish or african american can complain only. well yr(ADEER)AFWEYNE and you(FAQASH) were planned and attempted to do worst then that disaster,too bad,it didn't work out for yr(ADEER AFWEYNE) and besides we resisted and put up with 8yrs of war against heavily armed soldiers but you(FAQASH)couldn't resist and stop complaining 8months of war based on local clans in 1991.you said you have family in hargeysa,i wonder if yr mama frm there'cause KUWA HABLUHU DHALEEN BAA UGU COLAAD XUN.anyway i don't think you realy interested the facts so plzee can we just get alone'cause this damn earth is big enof 4 both FAQASH and s/landers to live,also leave s/landers alone and if someone is ignorant and narrow mined is you goofy'cause you can't take yr mouth out of s/landers.
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| | Wednesday, December 06, 2000 - 11:08 am i just like to say i wish great somalia. i wish somali people to be one that is all. if not i am disapointed but i will always wish for us to be one.
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| | Wednesday, December 06, 2000 - 01:21 pm To:MowlidMacane. I never said I am so-called Somaliland nor will I ever. I refer that region Northwest of Somalia. I am from North Somalia and proud of it and I will wave the Blue flag in my regions whether you like it or not. Oh Man Minority? hahahaha I am not here to explain anything to you but Five regions in The North three of them I rule or at least half of it so I can't be minority....LOL Mowlid I can smell you want to star tribe retarded discussion here but I don't interest, that crap go "Rayiga dadweynaha" loosers post their disgrace filthy topics there reality not fantasy Hmmm let me guess who live dream and fantasy. It's you who entertain your people non existent Nation. that makes you a man with a Dream and Since you are dreaming you will not Achieve anything, because Dreaming means you are in a deep sleep. To: Mr. The will of the somaliland has been ignored... Who is Somaliland? would you rather said some tribes has been ignored..eventhough I disagree Mr. Harmony Among tribes in the North its good but it's not something you and I brag about it, They realize peace is the only way to live side by side Not to create a nation Finally Mr. North Somalia is five regions I hate Assume your intention but you are speaking certain tribes Although you hate to mention who they are but we All know, don't you think its kind of disrespect and naive to speak for others their destiny? I Agree Cabdiqasim was a minister in 17 years not 19 years. so as EGAL and his cronies in hargeisa who loot the poor people in the North. Are you saying EGal repent and Abdiqasim is evil Still? Mr. We Somalis all need peace harmony dignity and fair share but try to mention cronies who worked Siyad bare for so many years but now preaching separation. Aren't they criminal Too? if there is a such thing in Somalia? Finally dividing our nation over my dead Body and I never seen the North but stories I heard and the beauty lies that region especially sanag can't disappear my head Later
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| | Wednesday, December 06, 2000 - 03:34 pm The reason I said to you that you are the biggest liar I have ever encountered - you are worse than Bill Clinton himself. One minute you are from Somalia, and the other minute you are from Somaliland, Ice-mann let me borrow your phrase and add something to it okey...? From: Ice-mann Friday, December....01, 2000 I am from North of Somalia and I believe strongly the unity of our country but to be reason with you From: Ice-mann.....Saturday, December 02, 2000 and i am glad you iidoors are not ignorant anymore.You see we south have always be awake and nothing has changed.FAK YOU. Ice-mann pls go to crap "Rayiga Dadweynaha" you are sick!! qabiil. Lastly, I don't give a damn about what the international community thinks, all I know is I am proud of my country, my people and our achievements. We have culture, we have pride, and we have our beliefs and we stick by them, and that is enough. We don't need recognition from anyone else, just as long as we know who we are and what we believe in. For the fact that Somaliland has peace -- thanks be to God. For the fact of thanks be to God." Ten years ago, the young men of northern Somalia would have been carrying guns. Today they are playing football in peace and thousands of people are watching. The people of Somaliland are immensely proud of that peace, and baffled that the world ...... Somaliland has accomplished a lasting peace between all sections of the population; it has established peaceful cooperation with its neighbors, and it has put in place a democratic governance which is effectively running the country with the consent of the governed. Somaliland simply asks that its achievements should not be sabotaged or threatened by a proposal which seeks to draft Somaliland into a scheme which runs contrary to its interests and in which it will take no part. Somaliland, in summary, will not be involved with the Djibouti Initiative and, consequently, will not participate in any of the deliberations outlined in its plan of implementation. This position has been confirmed by Somaliland’s House of Representatives and by the public at large.
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| | Wednesday, December 06, 2000 - 04:22 pm To:MowlidMacane> Being a Northern doesn't mean Somaliland it means North of Somalia Listen if you read the post Above you will Notice that I didn't post the Dec 2 about "IIdoor or Fak you" And everyone knows that even I mention my post After the Imposter. who knows it could be you who is acting swine Now . As far As so-called somaliland goes No comment because you seem to be emotional and expecting other Northern Somalis who find laughable and Amuse you're dying unattainable goals to validate you as a Nation. If some Somali kids are playing Football or going school regardless, where they come from more power to them who would be Against? Don't be naive here. Later
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| | Thursday, December 07, 2000 - 10:19 am Assalaamu Alaikum, People I hate to be the moderator, but I feel like I must interject. I opened this topic for people to answer my question. I don't want to loose that focus, if you want to insult each other please open another page. The problem with my aproach was, I mentioned the word elite. Infact what I meant to say was rational rather than emotional. So people, lets not take this personal. Furthermore, I will not engage in tribal diatribe, and so far despite some blunders most people have stuck to the agenda. KLM, I understand your point of view, but as we all know, a person must learn to accept reality. " Waa inuu qancaa" Second there is a big difference between wishing and reality. So my brother, I wish with you that Somalis learn to be united. Ice-Man you wrote "To: Mr. The will of the somaliland has been ignored... Who is Somaliland? would you rather said some tribes has been ignored..eventhough I disagree" I disagree aswell because I am appalled by your sinister attempt to equate my statement to a tribe. I will not go down that slippery slope of tribalism. I hope you will not pose such a question again. Now, just so you are crystal clear, in 1961 people in Somaliland, in every city decided to boycott the constitution that was being ratified. Furthermore, those who voted overwhelmingly voted NO. I can look up the statistics for you, but every city from Borame to Erigavo returned a No vote. So when I say their political will was ignored, I should have said ROBBED because parlaiment ratified it anyway. This is a fact and that was under a Democratic Somalia. What do you make of that????? Furthermore, the two States were never legally amalgamated, since Somaliland people returned a NO vote on the constitution. My brother this is reality, not some made up propaganda. Ice-Man, afcourse I can be proud about the harmony in my country. Why wouldn't I? You see this society has come against all odds. Siad Barre's dictatorship polarized the tribal issue and to overcome such divisions and to live like brothers is a testiment to the great future ahead. Furthermore, those confrences were to reclaim and maintain Somaliland's Sovereignty, whatt did you thing was being discussed? Even the current Prime Minister for Somalia ran for Prime Minister in Somaliland in 1993 and he lost. Even the current Foriegn Minister was in Somaliland Government, but was replaced. So when were they right? Today or Yesterday? Ice-Man, again you are back to tribes "I hate Assume your intention but you are speaking certain tribes." Why would you assume? Where have you heard any mention of tribe in my writings? All I said was, WHY IS IT PEOPLE FROM SOMALIA PROPER HATE PEOPLE FROM SOMALILAND. I say this because any mention of Somaliland you have people coming with insults. Furthermore, how can you say " don't you think its kind of disrespect and naive to speak for others their destiny?" I am the one who is perserving every ones destiny. I say lets have a referendum, yet you appose it? Why am I for it and you against it? Maybe you can't swallow the results? Ice-Man, comparing Abdiqasim and Egal is like comparing apples and oragnes. Egal was in solitary confinement for 12 years and was released pending he follow the regime. Abdiqasim on the other hand was a minister since 1972 and that is 19 years. Moreover, its not that he was a minister, that doesn't mean you are criminal, but that he was the interior minister who ordered the bombings in Somaliland. He says that on TAPE in 1988 by CNN. Forget, that he was a minister, he was still a minister even when Siad Barre himself left Mogadishu. Isn't that fascinating? But then again, among Morgan and Gani they thought he had a better background. You see, I don't want to discuss who is who, the only point I wish to make is, even if SOMALIA PROPER STILL WANTS UNITY, IT ISN"T TAKING THE RIGHT STEPS WITH THE APPOINTMENT OF SUCH WARCRIMINALS. I mean you can have him as your president but he better not claim he is the Somaliland's president. TO BE HONEST ABDIQASIM FOLLOWS A STRING OF INJUSTICIES FROM 1960 TO BARRE, TO ALI MAHDI'S CROWN, TO AYDIID's CROWN. Ice-Man, you would die for Somali Unity, I didn't see you doing anything to correct Barre or prevent any of the above events that occured that I said in that brief history lesson. You see you can't have your cake and eat it too, if you die for Unity die for its preservation, don't just wake up when it is too late and say SOMALIS MUST BE UNITED. Any relationship must be nurtured, otherwise you are going to have diverging paths. LASTLY, I KEEP TELLING YOU PEOPLE, YOU HAVE NEVER BEEN TO SOMALILAND SO DON"T TALK ABOUT UNITY UNLESS YOU HAVE SEEN WHAT WAS PRODUCED BY IT, AND WHAT HAS PRODUCED SINCE.
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| | Thursday, December 07, 2000 - 10:24 am Assalaamu Alaikum, Lastly, I would like to know why we can't live neighbourly. Why must you all have this enimity of any one who speaks of Somaliland. Please this issue needs to be settled once and for all. The best way to settle it is through a referendum. I hope we can agree that regardless of the outcomes we should always have mutual respect. That was the only intention for me makint this topic. To respect one onothers opinion and realities. Wasalaam Wa bilaahi Towfiiq
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| | Thursday, December 07, 2000 - 11:18 am You are calling the newly elected president of Somalia a warlord because he once served side by side with Siad Barrie. Well if you didn't know Mr. Egal president of Somaliland also was part of the siad Barrie regime, why isn't he considered a warlord. I know what you are going to answer with, cause he is from the North therefore he wouldn't harm his own people. But the truth is that many warlords from the north help aid in the killing of thousand, if not millions of people from their region. Oh and why Somalia will never offially be divided is because of a treaty Mr. Egal himself, along with Siad Barrie and many others signed; saying that the two connected regions of Somalia must never spearate, and must try to regain land lost to Ethiopia and Kenya, aswell as Djibouti. So the whole mentioning of this divided Somalia topic is basically useless talking about.
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| | Thursday, December 07, 2000 - 02:04 pm Assalamu Alaikum, Mr.Borama, I never called Abdiqasim a warlord, I called him a warcriminal. There is a big difference. And the allegation against Abdiqasim is not because he served for Siad Barre's regime, but because he said on CNN in 1988 that the arial raids were necessary measures. He took an active role in Siad Barre's regime. You see, like Abdiqasim himself will tell you not every one who was in that regime was in charge, infact it was a small clique. Abdiqasim was in that clique. Every one else was put in prison at least once if not multiple times, or had long sentences. Not to give excuses for even they turned a blind eye, which I think was COWARDLY. However, the point is not Abdiqasim's character, it is the whole process that led to his election. He claims he is the president of people who did not elect him, and he already said he would bring them back by force, although he recanted it. My point is, People from Somalia proper want unity, but what kind of unity is it? Based on what? Injustice? Let us not argue about Abdiqasim. Let us discuss how we can carry on respecting one another and stop this hostility. However, I must appologize to those who have showed maturity, like A V and SPARKLE. Wassalam Wabilaahi Towfiiq
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| | Thursday, December 07, 2000 - 02:13 pm Can i ask you experts......why are you fighting over the separation issue?It seem both the south and north hate each other.Dont you think it will be a solution if the separation occurs?No hate will be there.Everybody will mind their own business.Isn't it obvious?
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| | Thursday, December 07, 2000 - 02:35 pm HIBO HIT THE BULLS EYE
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| | Thursday, December 07, 2000 - 08:21 pm Artist: Xzibit f/ Snoop Dogg Album: The Restless LP Song: X * Typed by: Ghettofabulous98@hotmail.com * first single Yeah, ladies and gentleman Broadcasting live to you and yours It's Mr. X to the Z, Xzibit Yeah, bounce it Come on The first day of the rest of my life X stand behind the mic like Walker Kronkike Y'all keep the spotlight I'm keeping my rhymes tight Lose sight of what you believe And call it a night This ain't the light-weight, cake mix •••• That you're used to Teflon territory you just can't shoot through You gon shoot who? (Who?) Not even on your best day Rollin' the Wild West way, givin' it up Leavin' the whole world stuck not givin' a •••• Laid in the cut now we break through in the rut Hennesy and Orange Juice baby fill up a cup Quick to grab Mary Jane by the butt and squeeze Loosen up, let your hair down, and join the festivities Overcrowd the house like lockdown facilities Bitches be quick to give me brains while I post the range Going up and down my dick like the stock exchange 1 - (X) Rearrange the whole game with my rugged sound (X) Won't even say your own name when I come around (X) Stay on top but remain from the underground (X) to the Z and we all in the family Repeat 1 Ever since Xzibit has spit, been on some pimp •••• Approach every woman like a potential mistress Shine bright, make sure that X stay tight Cause tonight I might meet my next X wife Mr. Big Chief Reefa, Xzibit use his dick like a Visa I run it through and money come out Runnin' your mouth, I'll have somebody run in your house Ravel your spouse and have a little fun on the couch Now you know that it was bound to happen I came to give you what you lackin' Whenever you hear them other niggas rappin Rockin' chains, stadium, paladiums, cracked craniums My whole skeleton is dipped in titanium Drop tops sittin' on twenties Using rappers like crash test dummies Stackin' real estate and money It's funny how things change overnight When you thinking right I beat the odds like Ike beat on his first wife Repeat 1 (2x) What an event? We hardcore 100% Making it stick, Los Angeles proudly presents The real deal, how does it feel? No special effects Yank the chain off of your neck Demand the respect Now all your conversations sound strange to me It be like everybody around me done changed but me I stand alone on my own two feet Stagger tracks, strangle the beat Restless no time for sleep Niggas be weak, I'm concrete like Bejamin Greet It's a very thin line between a foe and a friend Straight to the chair (Not these niggas again) Come back, bounce in the spot and slide right in I ain't trying to see nothing but progress, regardless Home of the heartless, move right, remain cautious Represent nothing but the hustle and struggle Hennesy, rock plenty of ice, making a double, now SCREAM Repeat 1 (2x) [Snoop Dogg] So there you have it A-B-C D-P-G-C X to the motherfuckin' Z Mr. Xuberant, Mr. Xtravagant Xtrodinary, Mr. Xalata X 'em with a little bit of Xtasy X-ing a bitch out if you tryna test a g And what's the recipe? Xcalibur weaponary And we shoot Xceptionally That there is hot X marks the spot? •••• naw, X spots the marks Xclamation point niggas
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| | Friday, December 08, 2000 - 07:07 am A great deal has been written about the separation issue, but the people who consistently preach the separation sentiments have to realise that they don't represent the so called Somaliland. As we are all aware, the Northern Somalia belongs to a different Somalis,therefore, if some of them choose not to separate from the rest of somalia,then they have the choice and that is the point the separatist didn,t seem to understand, and clearily that is the simple reason why the dream of separation will never materialise. As far as the referandum is concerned, the other somalis live their own regions, so it is unrealistic to think that will they vote for your cause. In fact, if Notherners make a collective decission to separate from the rest of us, then I fully support your cause and will respect the will of the people who choose their destiny. On the other hand, the aggressive behavior and discoarse language has to be avoided in order to enlarge the scope our discussions without japordising the integrity of those who have a different point of views.
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| | Friday, December 08, 2000 - 11:57 am To Ms Hargeisa I believe you meant to say ankles in your earlier posting. There is spell check use it damnit!! Especially when your ugly ass is trying to make fun of so called "reer badiiyo" southerners! One thing I am gonna let you know this southerner can spell unlike your ignorant, esl speaking, low like got nothin to do but make fun of her own people hiding behind a computer bitch ass! PEACE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| | Friday, December 08, 2000 - 01:47 pm To: Mr. I think you confused the borders that Colonization marked for us as Somalis. You keep saying Somalia and Somaliland were never emerged legally. Since when they got divorced? Are you validating what colonization did to Greater Somalia? You have to realize Somalia existed before the colony in 1884 and 1889. but when the European came to our land they did not fight one another but each one got small land and they named us " British protector Somaliland" Italian protector land" "Ogaden, NFD and even Djabouti. the Last thing we should do here is. to claim the colonial master and their filthy names. The referendum issue. lets speak here for a moment two Northern guys Give me One reason why should I cast my vote something that I don't believe ? Do I have to Appease some small sect of the society to cast my vote so they can achieve their goals even though I doubt it? why should I obligated to do so? why Sool.Awdal Sanag and even Togder feel they should vote for referendum if they don't believe your cost? You are running from the union. I can see that but would you respect other Northern if they don't want to be part of your campaign to disunite our nation ? The whole Issue of separation is Siyad bare wasn't friendly with us and he doomed our towns so we will destroy the nation. Can people from Baidabo say that too because I think they suffered more than any region in Somalia?The Igaal's Argument and his people are Either give us a better deal or we will stay away from the rest of the country, fair Argument. but kind of deal is he looking for? we know So called independent Somaliland will never be achieved. because 65% Northern oppose that Idea. "The New president Abdiqasim was interior minister in Siyad bare regime" you label him as a war criminal. since when did he became a war criminal This man use to visit Hargeisa every three months and Egal was his mentor, wasn't he a criminal then? or Egal had a Amnesia? Egal once said Abdiqasim is the only man who we can deal with. but lately we are getting different signal Quote Egal"THERE IS A GREAT HOSTILITY AND BAD BLOOD TOWARDS HIM"ABDIQASIM" IN THE COUNTRY EGAL SAID "I REGARD HIM QUITE FRANKLY AS A VERY,VERY SHALLOW OPPORTUNIST" WAS Egal right before or NOW? You said the current Prime minister in Somalia and his foreign minister both Northern. one held a position in Somaliland and the other one seek a position. I know for fact mr Galaydh never believed separation end of it. for the other guy I am glad he changed his heart I hope others may follow his shoes. I don't know what you meant by "correcting Siyad bare and his regime" was I member of his government? lets say I wasn't even in high school when the war happened in 1988.so there is no way I could change his mind and how he governs our country. what I know Somalia Most I learn from the internet and the mass media, books. and I know Somalia very well. you mention(two Generals) As far as Morgan and Gaani goes. I don't know what else they could do. other than defend the nation Our Military swore to protect our nation internal and external enemy, Don't look far the real criminals are those who took guns with the help of Ethiopian and doomed their towns. Finally The Quebec issue is a good example for referendum, because if So-called Somalilanders voted independent the rest of Somalia has the last word on this issue , it's not easy as you think MR Later
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| | Saturday, December 09, 2000 - 06:52 am Qoonsade and AKA Honic I understand your views on seperation. My view is that there should be a fair and free referendum. If the majority of the population choose seperation, then that is what should happen. The fact that some people in S/land disagree with seperation should not hinder the will of the majority(which at this stage we simply don't know) My personal view is that the country should in fact be divided into three states. S/land should remain as it is, Puntland should unite with the central regions and the rest should become the third state. My reasons are simply administrative and economic pragmatism. I outlined my reasons in detail in another part of the forums, titled Mad-Mac's view of Somalia or something to that effect. Thanks.
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| | Saturday, December 09, 2000 - 07:56 am First of all I would like to start of by saying, that I don't believe it would be fare if only the people of Somaliland choose if they should be separated or not. Somalia as a whole should come together and decide. People listen to me when I say this, there is no getting yourself together and running a full functioning government, until you get to the root of all your problems. What that means is Somali people need to set aside their differences if there are any, and figure out how too get rid of those evil warlords that have made so much money of the chaos in Somalia. Again I go back to the example of America; which also has a civil war as we did North and South. However, after they fought for so long, both sides came together and discussed how they could function as one country. And look at were they are today; brothers and sisters we need to stop being ignorant uncivilized people and start using the brains that Allah has given us. We could over come, the tribe system in our country, heck Siad Barrie almost did it. We just need to talk, and one more thing, many Somalilanders complain about the newly elected president of Somalia. Somaliland had all the time in the world to come and join the conference in Djibouti, and make their presence felt. If Somaliland wants to get proper representation in the Somali government, they need to be present in conferences like those in Djibouti. What are Somalilanders to good to come and discuss the future of our nation, with other fellow Somalis? There is no use talking about war criminals regaining power, and thousands of gravesites, if the people of Somaliland do not try to make a difference. It has been 10 years and counting that Somaliland has tried to separate, and nothing in the form of recognition yet. I think it is time to give that up and make something good come out of your current situation, as members of Somalia.
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| | Saturday, December 09, 2000 - 07:59 am AKA HONIC Suck my cock,faggot.
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| | Saturday, December 09, 2000 - 08:09 am to ice wacker and alka holic congratulations idiots 'cause just proofed the whole point of discussions and cleared yr hatred toward s/landers,ice wacker you said those borders doesn't exist'cause of the canalization,well then who marked the somalian borders that we share with ethiopia/jabouti/kenya,are they fake too?? also you can claim sool but not sanaag goofy, nextime make claim only yr part of the region,qardho and laasqorey but not the capital city and the rest,aight wacky,i mentioned this before on my opinion,i said if to day s/landers even decided to reunion with south,you guys still love to see s/landers burned in hell,aim right fool,if you say no,plzee scroll up and read yr previous statements. PROUD S/LANDERS BURCAWI.
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| | Saturday, December 09, 2000 - 12:43 pm Xoogsade I would do that for you, but I wouldn't want to make your mom unemployed. Anyway if you don't have anything smart, and debatable to say, then please don't post anymore messages. And Xoogsade it is still Rahmadan, so take it easy for about seventeen more days.
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| | Saturday, December 09, 2000 - 01:12 pm Hi my brothers and sisters, I hope this month of fasting has been very easy for all of you Insha Allah. What I want to say today is you might as well let the people of Somaliland vote for themselves, because I can already tell you what the outcome will be. The out come of a Somaliland vote, by Somaliland residents will be in favor of staying united with the rest of Somalia. The reason I say this is because I have recently visited my town of Borama and other towns; which are all part of Somaliland, and the only people that seem to want a divided Somalia are the Issaq tribe members. None of my tribe and other tribes, and other surrounding town's people are in favor of a divided Somalia. You people might think I am just joking when I say this, but the truth is every other tribe except the Issaq that lives in the North are done waiting for recognition. Even the Issaq tribe is divided on the subject of dividing from the rest of Somalia. So I agree with logical people like brother AKA HONIC, that suggest we as Somali people should come together and talk about a way we could stay united without killing each other. In addition, I agree that the people of Somaliland should get involved in conferences talking about the future of Somalia, in order for their views on how the country should be run to be heard. I do not always agree with what brother HONIC says, but with two good points he has brought up, he is the only one that is trying to be the most logical. P.S. long live Somalia.
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| | Saturday, December 09, 2000 - 03:14 pm To Ice-Man, Northern Somalia is Somaliland and whether it hurts you or not is a personal dilemma. You say that we have dreams, and that is nothing but a deep sleep. My friend, what would we be without dreams? Martin Luther King once proudly told black america "I have a dream". He had dreams of a nation where blacks could live like equal citizens, and possess the rights that had eluded them for so long. Because of that "dream" black american are no longer considered "slaves" but as human beings. If us humans did not dream, we would not have advanced as a race, a species and a civilization. Secondly, I am truly sorry for the fact that you're a remnant of the old Kacaankii revolution , chasing ideals of a dream that could never become reality. The kacaannkii era is over and I will not look back to the evil that took place for 30 years. You have to wake up and smell the coffee because the revolution is over, and whether you accept it or not is up to you. But all I can say is move on and search for other goals to attain, because learning from your mistakes is the only way to seek redemption and attain salvation.
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| | Saturday, December 09, 2000 - 05:50 pm To Mr Borama Asalaamu Alaykum, Ramadan kariim, I disagree with you that Somaliland residents are in favor of staying united with the rest of Somalia but, i agree with you in one point. The military style enforced during the colonial era is over or Yugoslav style, we will choose our differences by vote, but it's no one's business except us somalilanders. I'll remind you, that in 1960 we joined them by our own freewill. But now, we feel the independence is our only choice, and should there be a chance of a real unification by the hearts and minds of Somalilanders, I believe it will take at least 2 or 3 generations to heal the wounds that we have suffered.
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| | Saturday, December 09, 2000 - 06:13 pm Ramadan Muburak to all: I am a young Somali woman, who lived in foreign countries for over two decades. I am a young woman who knew nothing about Somali politics and Somali people. When my time came to learn about my people, all I hear from them is a negative remark. Northerners insulating southerners, and visa versa. So, can any one tell me what is going on with Somalis? I observed and observed Somalis, and my results were that ALL, I mean ALL Somalis are ignorant, for exception of me and my family. When are Somalis waking up, and smell the coffee. I once had a dream of marring from U people (Somalis), but because of your ignorance, I will pass on you guys. I don't want to have your kids, because I am positive that my kids will come out as ignorant as Somalis, and to mention that all of yo have a low self-steem. So, I choose an African American over your sorry asses. Somali people, please WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE, and BUILD YOUR SELF-OF- STEEM BEFOR POSTING GRABAGE...... THANKS...... peace to all you.......
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| | Saturday, December 09, 2000 - 07:03 pm Let's get one things straight Miss Anonymous, for one thing you forgot something. You are a young STUPID AND NAIVE Somali woman. What makes you think that you are more knowledgeable than me? I have been around a lot longer than you on this earth, and you have no right to disrespect me by thinking you know better. You say that all Somalis are ignorant. My dear, you are the only ingorant one among us. In one respect, you insult your own countrymen, and destroy the memories and sacrifices that many Somalis before us had made. Somalis died for our country and made it possible for people like you to still have a country to live in and call your own. I am proud to be Somali, and it doesn't matter whether we have our differences or not. Even the whites and those living in "westernized nations" have their own problems to live with. The key is being proud of your nation, recognizing your roots, and respecting those who helped us continue as a nation. I don't give a damn whether you marry an african american. I am married to a beautiful Somali woman and we have two wonderful children and we are as happy as we could ever be. You accuse us of being ignorant. Well, sad to say, you are the only ignorant one among us. It is because of young idealistic people like you that have almost destroyed our nation. But unfortunately for you, it is people like me, someone who is proud to call himself a Somali which will keep our nation alive. So go and marry your gangster, drug smoking, bad mouth no manners African American, while us REAL SOMALIS continue being "ignorant" as you say, because frankly speaking, an opinion from a person like you simply doesn't count or mean a thing to us.
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| | Sunday, December 10, 2000 - 08:26 am Brothers and Sisters Ramadan Karim to you all I have read with interest your debates. I would like to point the following: 1.When Somalis were fighting the Ethopians and Europeans in all over Somalia prior to the fifties, there was no North or South. 2.In 1960 North and South united. If the South had obtained independence on June 26, 1960 and the North on July 1, 1960, the two would have reunited. It was not a case of two entities uniting but reuniting. 3.Both Northern and Southern Somalis fought for and died for the preservation and unity of Somalia. We must not deny history. We must give credit to the generations who have sacrificed thier lives for thier country. 4.After independence, Somalia was hijacked by a group of politicians foremost of which is Egal. He was there in 1960 and betrayed the people he represented. He was there in 1967 using the police in Mogadishu to shoot demonstraters. He is the author of parliamentary floor crossing, Arusha 'sell-out' and now is the mastermind of the hate campaign against Somalia. 5.Siyad Barre was a tyrant who murdered Somalis in the North, Mudug, Mogadishu and Bai. 6.We must never generalize. If Siyad and his henchmen shot innocent lives in Hargeisa, it was not the Southerns. If a captain from a Northern tribe shot 57 young men in Galkayo and allowed the gangraping of young girls, it was not the Norhtherns. If innocent brothers were mowed down in Jazira coast by soldiers mostly from the Mogadishu area, it was not the Mogadishians. 7.We all err. Do we move out of a house if rain comes through the roof or we repair it? Do we discard a car with a bad driver or change the driver? The generations before 1960 delivered. The generation after 1960 failed. A Yusuf. Atto. Eidid. Siyad Barre. Egal. And others I can name for lack of space. They were and are bad managers. What about us. We must not be thier dominos and pawns. 8.We need to solve the mess they left to us. How? The means are many. Civil war. Separation. Local adminstration. Strong Central government. Federalism. Confederation. Building blocks. Cantonism. Mini tribal states. Which one? 9.One man from Hargeisa was asked to sum up his visit to Hargeisa. He said common people are struggling hard to make ends meet. He was then asked to give an advice to all Somalis. I always quote him. He said: "Somalis love concerts. A concert's story and actors are exciting when you see the first time. You don't want to see the same script and actors again and again. I advise Somalis to be aware of thier local warlords. They are the same 1960 actors re-enacting the same script" 10. The morale of my piece is that unless new blood and this generation shoulders its responsibility, none of the above solutions will deliver. Only good managers deliver. That is what Somalia lacks. My fear is this generation is losing the focus too. As good managers, the path to the solution must start with what went wrong and how to ensure it is never never repeated. Instead, we are not looking at the bad driver. Instead, we are demanding the car to be changed. Got the point? Sorry for the length of my piece. Peace to you and God bless each of you.
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| | Sunday, December 10, 2000 - 09:22 am to Ms hargaisa. you should have a statistical credible evidence to make reasonable approach. but you don't which is why you simply abused the whole somalian community,now let me remind you one thing i am basically from OGADENIA but i really respect and love my other somali people and i hope i will drive Amhara out of my land with the help of my somali people.
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| | Sunday, December 10, 2000 - 12:30 pm To AKA HONIC You suggested that a referendum for S/Land seperation should be open to the whole of the Somali nation. That is unreasonalbe, not to mention impractical. When Eritrea recently decided to secede from the rest of Ethiopia, the referendum was held only in Eritrea, not the whole of Ethiopia. If you extend your logic a little further, why not include that same referendum to NFD, Ogaden and Djibouti? I think your intentions are patriotic and noble, but I believe you are short on pragmatism. The Northern Isaaqs, who form the overwhelming majority of the S/land's population, are still smarting from what they thought was Southern oppression. They will simply not accept any referendum beyond their borders. I think seperation will be sad, but I also believe it is inevitable. They will secede, whether the rest of us accept it or not. I think it is wise not to antagonise them further by coming-up with hair-brain suggestions like nation-wide referenda. The nation will surely come together again. But I think this dream will not happen for the next 20 or so years. Borama I agree with you that most non-Isaq groups in the North do not wish seperation. Sadly, they form a tiny minority. You know that and I know that. The biggest non-Isaaq settlement in the whole of Somaliland is Borama. About 8000 souls live there. Contrast this with Hargeisa, Burao, Berbera and Erigavo - all exclusively Isaaq towns. If it came down to a free vote, I am afraid around 10% of the population will say YES to re-unification. Please, let us be grown-ups about this and stop deluding ourselves. A referendum will settle this matter, once and for all. How does that sound to you? Also I believe people put too much emphasis on political recognition, or the lack of it. This is perhaps because we have always been a nation of paupers, and recognition means the flow of charitable largesse. S/land had already proven it can survive, and indeed thrive, without recognition. Sadly, we know only too well what happened in the South when things got tough.
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| | Monday, December 11, 2000 - 10:15 am Assalaamu Alaikum, People, I cannot and will not allow tribalims to be introduced into this topic. I am sorry I have no stomach for tribe. Thank you in advance. Now as I have proven, time and again, united Somalia only brought havoc and mistrust to the people of Somaliland. Their homes and property were looted by the National Army, their assets pillaged by the National Bank and their lives terminated by the Somali State. Their will to reclaim their soveriegnty has roots back in 1961. A coup de'tat took place but was curtailed, however the individuals involved could not be found guilty. That implies if anything else, Somalia and Somaliland never united legally. Now, if the people want to establish their state, why are so many against it? For those who appose it, you say not every one is for it. Then lets take a referendum and find out the truth. In essense this is a simple case. AKA HONIC talks about Quebec, he doesn't realize Canada has a different constitution than Somalia, and it was two different countries that were never legally united, not two provinces who signed on to confederation. To ease this debate, and try to bring it to conclusion here is an excerpt from an unbaised and nuetral observer (the emphasis is mine): "In Somaliland, the armed struggle against the Siyad Barre regime from 1982 and onwards formed a point of departure for an impressive process of localized PEACE CONFERENCES that eventually embraced ALL GROUPS in the former British colony and resulted in the DECISION TO SECEDE. This decision also gained impetus from the first Djibouti conference in 1991, where yet another southerner had been proclaimed president. Somalilanders felt that they had suffered under the patronage of southern rule for 20 years and were not willing to try a new such constellation." Also, my original question of why people of Somalia Proper have this hostility is mentioned by him aswell: "The Northern 'enemies' There are few issues in the south that have created the amount of concerted opinion as has the ANIMOSITY against the secession of Somaliland. Nearly every one of the twenty or so 'peace agreements' that southern factions have signed throughout the war starts off with the phrase, 'The unity of Somalia is sacred.' The implicit reference to Somaliland (which never took part in any of these conferences) couldn¡¯t be made clearer. That Somaliland¡¯s economy has gradually improved and its politics are admirably stable has not IMPRESSED many southerners. With the former capital in ruins, and in a political climate of increasing fission among even tiny fragments, there is at least the COMMON ENEMY IN SOMALILAND to bemoan. It is as if the declared secession was to blame for all the disasters that the south has suffered. And while Puntland does not officially claim anything else than its willingness to be part of a future federal Somalia, it too is seen as a threat to the reemergence of a united Somali republic." IN SHORT LETS CLOSE THIS DEBATE IN REHABILITATING OUR PEOPLE FROM THE TRUAMA OF THE SIYAD BARRE ERRA WHERE VIRTUALLY EVERY ONE HAS BECOME A DICTATOR. NO DIFFERENCE OF OPINION IS TOLERATED. I AM SORRY BUT WE MUST LEARN THIS AND LEARN TO RESPECT ONE ANOTHER WHILE WE ARE AT IT. Wassalam Wa Bilaahi TowFiiq P.S. The article I refer to is by Bernhard Helander, WILL THERE BE PEACE IN SOMALIA NOW?
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| | Tuesday, December 12, 2000 - 09:24 am can't we all get along please somalis can't we all just get along i don't care your political position just lets get along please for somali sake
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| | Tuesday, December 12, 2000 - 10:05 am To Mr I agree with you. To all the haters Somaliland is here to stay so get over it.
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| | Tuesday, December 12, 2000 - 11:02 am Mr. when did I ever mention anything about Quebec? You see I have now proved your ignorance, you do not want to read the fact I present to you, but you want to respond to everything I say. I think this is why there are so many problems in the Somali community. I bet if you took the time to read what I write to you, as I take time reading your stuff. Then maybe you might see this whole situation a little differently instead of taking the word of EX- SNM soldiers for fact. Somalilanders are so abscessed with getting independence that they refuse to think of anything else, even if that something else is a more logical approach to the Somali conflict. Do you seriously believe that Mr. Egal has set this whole fake government up, just so he can get the freedom the Somalilanders deserve. No, he is just doing this to regain some Old Glory from his failed attempts to become president of Somalia. In addition, he wants to make up for all those political years that he has missed do to him being in prison. And for all those people that for some reason never want to use their brain, do you think if Somaliland becomes independent that, that is going to be the end of it. Please if you believe that by getting independence Somalilanders are going to live happily ever after, then I am going to tell you now you are wrong. Of course, the South will get mad, and then that will lead to another civil war. Come on we do not at this point want another war, so lets just get our so called tribe leaders to drop all this beef $hit, and agree on a logical ending to this Somali conflict.
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| | Wednesday, December 13, 2000 - 08:38 am god save us
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| | Wednesday, December 13, 2000 - 12:51 pm Mr. please explain yourself when you say,it was two different countries that were never legally united. I don't know where you get your information, but Somalia was a united country; yes legally.
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| | Thursday, December 14, 2000 - 12:12 pm You see Ms Hargeisa, and Mr haven't come back to this posting in a while, cause they finally realized that their ignorance couldn't last them forever. Somaliland should be a dead topic, cause many countries have been through civil war, but still can manage to coexist. All I have to say now is, long live Somalia.
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| | Thursday, December 14, 2000 - 05:35 pm Asalaamu calaykum w w & Ramadaan Wanaagsan To the guy who started this conversation, I have an honest question. Somaliland is now essentially the Isaaq, because the Gadabursi, Warsangeli, Dhulbahante and even the Garxajis, have withdrawn support. So I ask, how do expect Somaliland to survive with so much opposition to its existence? Hanad
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| | Thursday, December 14, 2000 - 05:35 pm Asalaamu calaykum w w & Ramadaan Wanaagsan To the guy who started this conversation, I have an honest question. Somaliland is now essentially the Isaaq, because the Gadabursi, Warsangeli, Dhulbahante and even the Garxajis, have withdrawn support. So I ask, how do expect Somaliland to survive with so much opposition to its existence? Hanad
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| | Thursday, December 14, 2000 - 06:41 pm Thank you mow..... I still think all Somalis are ignorant, and your comment won't change in what i believe in. I believe that Somalis are ignorant, as simple as that. They didn't fight for me, nor die for me, and if they did how did I end up in forign countries for almost all my life. Ramadan mubarak @ ya
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| | Thursday, December 14, 2000 - 06:41 pm Thank you mow..... I still think all Somalis are ignorant, and your comment won't change in what i believe in. I believe that Somalis are ignorant, as simple as that. They didn't fight for me, nor die for me, and if they did how did I end up in forign countries for almost all my life. Ramadan mubarak @ ya
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| | Friday, December 15, 2000 - 11:10 am Gadabursi representing, I tried to tell them, but they wouldn't believe me. Issaq think they only control the north. Wrong, my people live there too the Gadabursi, and were not down with this whole separation thing any more. So I can safely say, Somaliland was just a nightmare, but we will all wake up from it, and never have nightmares like that again. It was really a get rich quick program for Egal; the other tribes in the North have realized that. He does not care for Somalilanders; he is only in this whole mess to get rich for him self. If you people know what is, good for our country support the new Somali government. When I was recently down in Somaliland, this a$$hole Egal was arresting people just because they attended the Djibouti peace conference. I do not about you people, but I smell dictatorship coming up soon in the north. Insha Allah the new Somali government and other nations will realize we are dealing with a crazy man in Somaliland, and help us get rid of him.
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