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Observations about Somalis by Gerald Hanley

SomaliNet Forum (Archive): General Discusions: Archive (Before Jan. 23, 2001): Observations about Somalis by Gerald Hanley
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MAD MAC

Wednesday, December 20, 2000 - 02:40 am
Note these observtions are from the early 1940s. Still you can see where some traits still come through.

I once worked up a mania about rags being used as plugs in the ends of rifle barrels. I used to tell the Askaris how this made the barrel sweat and damaged the rifling and how in other ways it was unsoldierly and dangerous. I went on about this until there was only one askari left in the unit who still sneaked a rag plug into his rifle muzzle when on the march. One day I sent a patrol out and this askari was one of their number. He was carried back a few days later with his right eye missing and a good deal of the right cheek bone as well. He must have been in terrible painwhen I stood over him and had a look at the frightful wound. I knew what had done it but said nothing. It could wait but the askari started on it right away.
"You think it was a rag in the end of the rifle muzzle don't you Effendi?" he said. The other askaris standing around the bed smiled and looked to me to see what I would do with the possibilites in this piece of brazen nerve.
"I didn't say anything about a rag" I said innocently.
"There was no rag in the rifle muzzle" the askari said sternly. "I don't want you to think that. When I opened fire there was this explosion and now my eye is gone. It's going to cost the Army a lot of money."
"The bullet blew the bolt out into you eye didn't it?" I said.
"I didn't make the rifle or the bullet" he said. "It was your rifle and I know nothing about what made it knock my eye out." The corporal of the patrol came in then with the smashed rifle and showed me the split muzzle, the shattered breechwork and it was quite obvious to us all that there had been a plug in the muzzle, forgotten in the excitement until the explosion and the tragic wounding. The corporal told me that the askari had already admitted that he had a plug in the muzzle when he had fired, but had said he was determined never to admit it to me.
"Lies" the askari moaned on the bed. "lies, lies." All the askaris laughed.
"I'm sorry about your eye" I said. "We'll get you down to Mogadischu as quickly as possible." He was a fine looking, healthy Majertain tribesman but he was not in any way upset about the pain and the disfigurement he suffered, only about being right.
He called me as the truck carrying him to Mogadischu crashed into gear, gripped my wrist and stared into my eyes with his one splendid eye.
"Don't believe the corporal and the others" he said to me. "They're all against me in this. There was no plug in my rifle. You told me never to use one, didn't you?
"I did."
"Haven't I always been an obedient askari?"
"Always. Except for that plug in your rifle." He turned his face away in disgust, weary of me and the whole effort of the miserable business. The other askaris, like hawks about the truck, listening to this final passage, looked sharply at each other as the truck drove away.
"You won there" the corporal said to me.
"It's not a question of winning" I said. "It's a question of discipline." (A lie. It was a question of winning.)
"No, but you won. You beat him. You got him right down there with that last bit. He thoguht you were going to give in. But you won."
"And he was a good liar too" an askari said, thoughtful and admiring.


I could never hear the word Ghee (Subuk) for after Somalia without a tightening up of the whole nervous system. They used to cook their food in ghee, clarified butter, and when the ration ran out in the bush and I knew we would get no more, perhaps for months, I used to drag the rags of my will together and get ready for months of anguish about ghee. Like white troops without cigarettes, they talked about the ghee all day and all night. But unlike white troops, they held conferences about it, drew up statements, compiled measurements of the ghee they had not had and must expect from me when the time of ghee came again, and some of them would come trembling with fury to me about the ghee, after having worked each other up over the campfire.
"There is no ghee here or for hundreds of miles" I screamed one night at them, a deputation who had not even got a word out of their mouths before my scream, and they convulsed with laughter.

One last thought:

"Of all the races of Africa (and perhaps the world), there can not be one better to live among than the most difficult, the proudest, the bravest, the vainest, the most mercialess, the friendliest: the Somalis."

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TimeMagazine

Wednesday, December 20, 2000 - 06:20 am
"Of all the races of Africa (and perhaps the world), there can not be one better to live among than the most difficult, the proudest, the bravest, the vainest, the most mercialess, : the Somalis."


YOU GOT THAT RIGHT - MAD COW DISEASE!

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Aro

Wednesday, December 20, 2000 - 09:58 am
MadMac,

A senior consultant for Horn of Africa. ( A new post for you, ans let me know I will provide you an excellent reference for that matter)

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MAD MAC

Wednesday, December 20, 2000 - 10:03 am
Well, at the moment, I'm still gainfully employed. But in a few years I'll be there. And I'll be willing to work for free (I have an Army pension which in Somalia should be more than enough). MAD MAC, military advisor to the new Somali Army. Sounds like a good time.

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Arawelo

Wednesday, December 20, 2000 - 10:07 am
Hmmmmm, but I thought you were still young. what is up man.

But I doubt if you want work for an Islamic government.

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Mercutio-

Wednesday, December 20, 2000 - 10:36 am
MAC THE REST WAS CHIPPERISH!!

THE LAST THOUGHT" GAVE ME GOOSE BIMBLES!!!

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Poisonous

Wednesday, December 20, 2000 - 11:33 pm
OK Warthog.

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MAD MAC

Wednesday, December 20, 2000 - 11:38 pm
Arawello
I have been in the Army for 16 1/2 years. I have 3 1/2 years to go (June 2004) until retirement. When I retire I am heading to the dark continent to kill black people (that was a joke - you guys don't need my help there). Seriously the Army gives you a 50% pensin after 20 years of service. So I will get my pension and then I want to move to Somalia and work some aid projects. Not typical here I am the white guy coming to help you stupid African aid projects. There are already plenty of Somalis with the appropriate technical expertise. I want to provide assistance in pimping western governments for funding of projects (and making sure the funds don't get ripped off by the omni-present corrupt government officials) and helping some individual friends of mine get a leg up so they can raise their families without wondering where their next meal is coming from.

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Durgal

Thursday, December 21, 2000 - 05:36 pm
MAC

You are right Somlis are most friendly poeple on the earth. For example you are an army officer and may you have worked agianst somali interest, but it still it does not matter, you have been accepted in this Net. It shows tremendous grace on the part of somalis.

Are somalis most merciless people? On this part Somalis are misunderstood? Listen this amusing and horrific story. This anthropologist, Colin Turnbull,goes to Africa, and does ethnography of group called Ik, or mountian people. The Ik people have taken art of survival to whole another level. When Turnbull arrives one of the villages of this tribe he meets with an old man who has a sick wife. The two arrange some sort of deal where the old man works as guide and in turn he gets his wife's medicine. Months later Turnbull learns that eventhough the guide's wife has been dead for sometime he was still cashing on the medicine. Turnbull then confronts with guy and demands an explanation for why he was not told about this. The old man simply says he forget to tell him. she was not that important.
In the same villege a couple take their 12 year old daughter to sight seeing. However, when they realized nobody was around they surrounded her with a fence and they told her that they were going to look for food. They never came back and she was too weak to break out, she died. Making sure she was dead the parents came back three days later. There were other horrific examples of the lowness of human survival. Turnbull never blames these people, he simply says only when you are in their position you can say I would do that or I would not do it. Coming back to my story, and the strangest of all things is that the Ik people believe somalis are meaner and dishonest people, In fact Turnbull was warned to be careful when dealing with group of Somali businessmen who owned stores in a near by town. Where was this? It was the border between Uganda and Sudan. In his introduction Turnbull describes those Somalis as the most caring and honest people he has seen during his stay. So In short, If Ik people believe we are merciless and mean people then, it would be very difficult for us to seriously consider what others think about us.

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Anonymous

Friday, December 22, 2000 - 09:26 am
Yawn..........................Ok,I read the book and one thing gerald handley failed to realize,is that although somali nomads are/were extremely fearce,most of the intended victims were other somalis.

If the somali are/were indeed the fiercest people on the african continent,why didn't/don't they load up their camels and head west to fight the xabesha in ethiopia?Well,because they would surely be exterminated.

The xabesha are valiant race of africa and we're much more attractive than somalis/many of whom are black as tar.

kasa

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Tah-Hotep

Friday, December 22, 2000 - 10:27 am
To MadCow or Mad-dog whatever your filthy name is.

You are missing the big picture here, talking about working in somali for Aid projects is the most disgusting and hopeless thing I have ever heard from alpino soul-less people such as yourself.
Having said that,Greater somali will be reunited,those wound will be healed, and young intellectuals, very well educated from hard-knock world ( I am not referring it to those filthy institution you call it university whereby you program idiots) will take over those rotten rats you been dealing with. Pride and dignity of somalis will be reborn again, so stop dreaming and smell the camels milk that will came soon on your high street corner in every american cities.

So just it is matter of time, and getting my action plan together with my true Nomads.
and do not think that true hardcore somalis are dead...they will be there forever. to preserve everything we hold so dear.
finally, somalia needs change but definitely not charity. I can not wait the day that all somalis gets this picture.
I am aware of your mission and master plan you have for somali race. I despise those Scorpion who suck foreigners, I have nothing more to say except death and humiliation be upon them( including you)
So hold your horse

Tah-Hotep

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MAD MAC

Friday, December 22, 2000 - 11:02 am
Teh Hotep
Those sound like fightin' words Jalle. Good luck squaring off against The Mad One. Pound for pound baby, pound for pound.

Anonymous
He said they were the fiercest, not themost exspansionistic. He loves Somalis, I thought that came through loud and clear. He would rather live (or would have, he's dead now) among the Somali nomads than back in his birth home. Did you like the book? I found the authors style to be interesting. His observations about the Somalia in some cases brought back memories. However, he did a poor job translating Qabil and I was never sure if he really understood that Somalia does not have different tribes - the Somalia are one tribe. They have different clans. Not the same thing. Just as the Scottish are one tribe but have different clans. I love the beginning where he's talking to Ali who mentions how Islam will rule again.
Durgal
I didn't say they were the most friendly. I personally found the Haitians to be much more friendly than Somalis. Handley said that.

BTW the name of the book is "Warriors, life and death among the Somalis" for any of you who might be interested in reading it.

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TroubleGirl

Friday, December 22, 2000 - 01:06 pm
One thing I am actually good at.........I HATE POLITICS........Im gonna watch the boys argue over it.

Garcon, Dove mera Popcorn s'il vous plait?

:)

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Tah-Hotep

Friday, December 22, 2000 - 01:51 pm
Mad Dog

although cyberwarfare is not my style, lyrically speaking, I invade nations on the cyberspace, take them a hostage. when I slash you with my keyboard you will feel the pain in your vain.

There are five classes of spies,local spies, internal spies,converted spies,doomed spies,surviving spies, and you are all of them.
you are the worst enemy that somali can have. how plain stupid is to believe a guy like you the worst enemy that somali can ever have has a love for somali and like to mix with.


I suggest you go back to your filthy inferior race those soul-less hypocrites and leave the somalis alone.


true cyber warrior

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Ubax101

Saturday, December 23, 2000 - 02:13 pm
Mister Mad Mac you must realize and take into consideration the fact that you might not be still alive after three and half years. Besides, why dont you join your fellowship and retire to some Senior Citizen Home somewhere in Florida or something? I think you would rather be called The-Old-Colonel, than Gaalka? But then, there are two kinds of people: The Doers and The Dreamers, i assume you are the later?

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DICK

Saturday, December 23, 2000 - 05:17 pm
mad mac


I DIDNT READ THE BOOK.THOUGH INTERESTING.BUT I CAN NOT HELP NOTICE THAT SOMETHING IS OUT OF PLACE.FOR INSTANCE BOTH ASKARI AND EFFENDE IS NOT SOMALI LANGUAGE.ASKARI IS ARABIC WORD AND SOMALIS USE SOMETIMES.BUT "EFFENDE" IS OUT OF PLACE.IT IS SWAHILI WORD,WHICH SOMALIS OF THAT TIME COULD NOT POSSINBLY USE.UNLESS THE SOLDIERS YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT WERE OF EAST AFRICAN ORIGIN.THAT'S WHY MAY BE THEY WHINE SO MUCH FOR FOOD.AND ITS A POSSIBILITY THAT THE WRITER COULD NOT TELL THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE SOMALIS AND THE OTHER AFRICANS.I SUSPECT THAT SOME OF THOSE SOLDIERS WERE NOT SOMALIS.IN THOSE DAYS IT WAS SHAMEFUL FOR A SOMALI TO CRY FOR FOOD.THEY WERE NOBLE BRAVE MEN, AND THEY USED TO DIE HARD WITH DIGNITY.MOST DEFINATELY THE GUY WHO BUSTED HIS EYES IS SOMALI.HE WAS STUBORN.IF YOU WARN A SOMALI ABOUT A DANGER AHEAD,HE WILL GO AHEAD TO MAKE SURE IT IS REALLY A DANGER.


ANON OR KASA

I BELIEVE YOU ARE HABASH.YOU DONT SEEM TO BE FAMILIAR WITH THE HISTORY OF HORN OF AFRICA AND WHAT THE SOMALIS DID TO THE ETHIOPIANS.DID YOU FORGET THAT THE SOMALIS USED TO MARCH WEST EVERY GENERATION OR SO LIKE THE MONGOLS, BLUNDERING EVERYTHING IN THEIR PATH AND YOUR ASSES TOO.DID YOU FORGET HOW "AHMED GUREY" THE LEFT HANDED, DEFEATED AND CONQUERED ETHIOPIA IN 16TH CENTUARY.DESTROYING AT THE SAME TIME THE PORTUGUESE ARMY LEAD BY CHRISTOPHER DE GAMA,WHO CAME TO YOUR AID.AHMED GUREY EXCUTED BOTH "DE GAMA" AND THE "KING OF ETHIOPIA" IN ONE PLACE AND FORCED ETHIOPIANS TO EAT RAW MEAT, ONCE THEY COULD NOT DARE TO LIT A FIRE IN THE NIGHT TIME. HAVE A NICE DREAM FOR THE TIME BEING,COZ WE ARE COMING ONCE AGAIN, WHEN WE SORT OUT OUR DIFFERENCES,AND WE GONNA TEACH GOOD LESSONS TO YOU, THE KENYANS AND THE REST OF THE WORLD.

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wisdom

Saturday, December 23, 2000 - 06:01 pm
true that
true that

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Jeego

Saturday, December 23, 2000 - 07:45 pm
Dick bro forget this Anonymous, he is definitely Somali? Please read again what he wrote? have you ever seen any Axmaar write like Somali (Xabasha)
I know what kind of Somali is this anonymous is good for nothing Xabashi Spy?

Bro no need to explain the history everyone knows and Xabasha know what we are capable?!
And this moron calling somali ugly and xabasha nice looking fierce people must be joking?

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Whoa

Saturday, December 23, 2000 - 08:14 pm
Y'all miss a BIG picture about da guy Bradley Hanley....or whatever his name was.....Can't you see the hinted annotation of homosexual references in him? This poof was no doubt attracted to these men, emphasising adjectives such as "He was a fine looking," - "gripped my wrist and stared into my eyes with his one splendid eye." People be smart and examine the agenda under construction of this Mad cow disease.Remember - dont eat the meat if you can't handle the disease!

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rose

Sunday, December 24, 2000 - 10:41 am
Whatever this is about, I only got the last bit about Somalis being great (maybe it's the only bit I wanted to see) but I though it was quiet disgusting. Can someone please tell me how you can still talk and above all lie after half your face has been blowed away?

Mad Mac, I think African people don't need any more aid, it's what's making them lasy.

Tah-Hotep, go easy on the uni's ok? They don't program anyone.

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Galool

Sunday, December 24, 2000 - 01:07 pm
Mad-Mac

You obviously made some poor Somali hearts really happy. They enjoy all that stupid patronising stuff. I cannot think of a race that would not describe itself as Proud and Brave. Of course at least one country has those words in its national anthem.

The thing is, unlike us, most other races have SOMETHING to be proud of. Besides we Somalis are not really proud are we? After all the whole wide world saw us fighting over some donated wheat after we created famine through sheer idiocy.

I wish we were described as rich, educated, kind, gentle, tolerant, open-minded, democratic, intelligent. In fact any adjective will do as long as it is not that wretched word - Proud. You see people call you "Proud" when they can't find any really useful adjectives that apply to you.

And MERRY CHRISTMAS old chap.

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s.y.i

Sunday, December 24, 2000 - 01:44 pm
HEY HEY HEY wait a minute man fu*k you mann hey put your ass in there situation damnit you'd be so damn staarving and hungry you'd fuckin mistake ol' mad mac's wrinkled dick for a banana.
sh*t mann this country has been through a damn crisis alright you hear me a damn crisis it doesn't need any analyzing fu*k analyze this bi*ch (you relize i'am in a mad tone, that's why i'm cursin at all of ya'll) remember how ignorant you were of tha fact that america wasn't aiding shi*t man for god's sakes all they did was do harm for them it was just another country to add to there must •••• list ....you know why they wanted to do this cuzz they are the kind of ppl that •••• you when your down. they take advantage of you and make sure you never rise up...ehh but look what happened to them huh.....aid is like welfare it makes sure you never rise.. you want a good example huh ....look at the black ppl of north america hey they're on aid that's why they aint' going no where ....this sort of system was seen in the pharoic era ...remember him fir'coon...huh well look up his history ...america has these millions of satelites that monitor everything (almost) ..they can see what saddam hussein wore this morning how many times he cleaned his damn corn ..they see all the sh*t ...but yet they can't see the damn cocaine supply ships that bring drugs into the country ...huh ..no they know ....they just wait untill that kid sold enough crack to buy a car for his sister buy a house for his momma and is prosperring of the drugg an all of a sudden they bust in an take everything ....that's all there is to it..mannn you just think b'4 you say sh*t .and frankly your all still ignorant ....alright ok then ....this is superior yet inferior...over n'out

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dick

Sunday, December 24, 2000 - 02:05 pm
lol@s.y.i

S.Y.I., you busted my ribs."ol.mad mac's wrinkled dick" for a banana!

Galool you better watch out when you get starved.

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Anonymous

Sunday, December 24, 2000 - 02:21 pm
Mad mac,
Did gerald handley author more than one book about his experiences in africa?

You asked whether or not I liked the book-the answer is"yes".I found his style very flavorfull and descriptive.His main focus seemed to be how somalis differed from other africans.In case you don't already know the european power basicly did a brain-washing job on most other blacks in africa.Most other blacks were extremely subordinate to whites,they seldom complained or fought back.

In gerald hanley's own word"the somalis are not in awe of the white man's magic & machinery".I think this,coupled with the fact that somalis are some of the most difficult people to get along with,he developed a certain respect for somalis.It's well know that the british often treated the more warlike races a little better than the pacifist ethnicities.I guess as he saw it,somalis have never completely bowed to the white man's wishes,but I fought him,worked with him,and achieved a compromise.

Oh yeah!someone said something that I think may be true.Gerald handley was so detailed in his descriptions of somali men(physically)that there is the possibility that the dude was a homosexual.I mean,how often do straight men pay close enough attention to the way that another guy looks,to the point of being able to describe them so vividly?

Last,I like how you aren't shewed away by the hostility of some somalis here.Keep posting man,we need level-headed people(of any color).

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Xoogsade

Sunday, December 24, 2000 - 03:05 pm
Anonymous:

This man Hanley really knows the Somalis. Ever since that English traveller Burton described the Somalis as the "Irish of Africa" our race has held some fascination for many a Hibernian finding himself in Africa. Some hated the Somalis but this particular one obviously responded to them. I personally am never surprised if someone says he likes Somalis. I have never found any single race that can compare to Somalis in all my travels in the world. Simply the best.

This man Hanley wrote another book called "Gilligan's last elephant" about a retired British soldier taking an American playboy on an elephant hunting expedition. Gilligan, the Brit employs an arrogant Somali guy as his guide and some kenyans as his baggage carriers. There is much discussion of the Somali character along the way. In the climax of the book, the two white guys become tangled in a competition as to who would beat the other one in the march without succumbing. The Somali guy easily beats them and then rubs it in their faces boasting that no one can outlast a Somali in a march. That the Somalis are impervious to heat, thirst and hunger and fatigue. For the record the British came second and then the American then the Kenyans way way back.

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Xoogsade

Sunday, December 24, 2000 - 03:06 pm
He also wrote a novel called the "The consul at sunset" set in Mogadishu if I am not mistaken. I have never seen that one though.

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Anonymous

Sunday, December 24, 2000 - 03:08 pm
Xoogsade

so...it doesn't diminish the fact that he was a FAG......are you?

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Alipapa

Sunday, December 24, 2000 - 10:30 pm
xoogsade,

if somalis are friendly, then why, in the allah's name, don't you stop bashig the poor mad mac?. and why do you hate the other black men?.

i guess, i know the answer. you are just typical reer waqooyi motherfucker who bows to white man. but then again, in reer waqooyi culture, jealousy can override the bowing .

you are just being jealous the attention that mad mac is getting. And the black men's case, you are also being jealous when other black men fuckk somali women cuz you are ma wase lagamana wase.

keep hating and take care somali women's pussies as pussyguard. And keep on jerk off at the end of the night.

Alipapa

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CoolPoison

Monday, December 25, 2000 - 12:42 am
lol...pussyguard

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dick

Monday, December 25, 2000 - 01:22 am
At the begining of 20th centuary when the Mad Mullah's campain was at it heights, and the Brittish were facing defeat after defeat,one English lord busted with anger and exclaimed,

"WE CAN TOLERATE A DARKMAN WHO ACCEPT HIS INFERIORITY,AND WE CAN TOLERATE A DARKMAN WHO GIVES AS A GOOD FIGHT,BUT WE CAN NOT TOLERATE A DARKMAN,WHO GIVES AS A GOOD FIGHT,AND WHO IS EQUALLY AS INTELLEGENT AS WE ARE,IF NOT MORE INTELLEGENT THAN US.THATS WHY THERE IS A UNIVERSAL DISLIKE FOR SOMALIS".

hundred years latter after he said that,the world still dislike somalis.

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MAD MAC

Monday, December 25, 2000 - 01:37 am
Dick
Actually most of the Askaris in his charge were Somalis, I think mostly Darood. But there were also a number of Kenyan tribes there and a couple he mentions were Somalis from the NFD. Since he doesn't address this issue I can'T say for sure, only hypothesize.

As for the Ghee - they weren't whinning about food, they were whinning about not have the Ghee. They were eating. And I'm not sure it was really whinning. They felt like they signed a contract and weren't getting their end of the bargain. I experienced this same thing when I was in Somalia with some of the Somalis I worked with. Complaining and trying to squeeze the last ounce out of anything is a common human trait. The Somalis have simply mastered it.

He is quite clear about the courage of the Somalis. He thought they were great soldiers in the aggragate. Some fought in Burma later and did quite well. Re-read the last paragraph again on this subject.

Anonymous
I don't know if he was homosexual or not. Granted he failed to describe the woman at all. Even when he came into Hamer for some dow time. He talks about getting drunk and eating but not about getting laid - something that's always a serious priority for sodliers when they come in from the field. But to be fair, it's likely that, since he spent a lot of time solely in the company of men, he might remember them somewhat more vividly. Still, Somali woman are so striking, esspecially for someone who is first seeing them, that it's hard to imagine him not describing them at least. So maybe you have a point.

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Galool

Monday, December 25, 2000 - 02:37 am
SYI + Dick

You missed my point. The famine was not a natural disaster, WE caused it. And SYI, No thank you. I will leave sucking things to you. Bon apetit! You obviously tried it before.

To All

I have seen Somalis described by other western adventurers as avaricious, callous, despicable and savage. Fishing for pointless compliments from long-dead `whiteys' is a clear indication of how insecure we are as a race.

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Jeego

Monday, December 25, 2000 - 08:21 am
Galool
Walalkiis you have a point we caused most of our present day problems but I see nothing wrong boosting our positive side especially this Times so we can bring back to our people their lost bride and same time build our character and the country.

Alibaba lol you must have been waiting Xoogsade to show up?!!

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Jeego

Monday, December 25, 2000 - 08:52 am
Galool
How could any one be rich,gentle,tolerant, open-minded when you have gun pointed on your Head.
look man since the ancient times there have been always invasion after invasion, well you can blame it to our location the gateway to Africa and we have done lot by defending this port. anyway You know the people you wish for us to be where they ended? Slavery! ok I rather be called PROUD then anything else and thanks to my ancestors sacrifices!!

S.Y.I damn man lol wrinkled banana LoL...........

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Tah-Hotep

Monday, December 25, 2000 - 09:07 am
To MAD MAC

Knowledge of enemy's dispositions can only be obtained from other men. knowledge of the spirit world is to be obtained by divination; information in natural science may be sought by inductive reasoning; the law of universe can be mathematical calculation; but the disposion of the enemy are ascertainable through spies and speis like you alone.

So, what's in it for you? in somalia and somalis? if you are not spy with other mission.

Tah Hotep

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Xoogsade

Monday, December 25, 2000 - 01:19 pm
'When the Eurpeans go from Kenya,' Ali said, 'what will happen to the Somalis who live there? They wil not live under Kikuyu rule. They will refuse'

I told him that I did not know what will happen to all the Somalis in Kenya, but I agreed with him that it was unlikely they would willing to live under what he called 'Kikuyu rule'.

Africa is like an enormous Europe, full of people of one colour but who differ like Swedes and Spaniards, Greeks and French, Czechs and Italians.

The Somalis, whether they live in the place still called French Somaliland, or what was British and Italian Somaliland and in the Ogaden which is now ruled by Ethiopia, and in the Somali country of Northern Kenya, are all one race with one language and one religion and one way of life, and eventually they must all unite as the pencil lines drawn by European powers on the African map a century or so ago begin to blur and vanish.

I had once tried hard to get the Somalis to give up their contempt for Bantu people, at a time when we had Nyasa soldiers in the scattered garrisons of the Somali moonscape. But they broke the hearts of the softer Bantu soldiers.

'We cannot obey slaves' Somalis told me. 'It is impossible for us to live under slave people even when they are in uniform and have arms.'

'We cannot go on living here among these people,' a Nyasa askari had cried hysterically at me. He was charged with causing a riot in a coffee shop in one of the more sun-blasted of the desert ouposts. 'They despise us, they sneer at us, they hate us,' the Nyasa told me. I knew all this but could not change the Somali feeling of superiority over these chunky, black people from the lush south, nor wipe out the memory they had of a time when these Bantu people were slave material for the Muslim world to the north. That was the trouble, the curse of race, looks, noses, lips, eyes, legends. Colour had little to do with it.

They liked to taunt the Bantu askari, and the Bantu innocence had little chance against the sharp, splintered wit of the nomad Somalis. Fights were frequent, and the unhappy Nyasas pined for home. They also had misfortune not to be able to go long without water compared with Somali askaris, and the Somalis used to enjoy baiting them about this, especially on long patrols in the fierce heat.

But the average Nyasa soldier had a staunchness of personality which took a lot to bend and break it, and the Somalis and their wilderness, were able to do it in the end.

Many of the Nyasas fell, insanely sometimes, in love with the beautiful Somali women, and when they got them they worshipped them, to the amusement, and anger, of the Somali males who watched it all. Far more beautiful than the Bantu women so far away, the Somali girls first laughed at this worship, and then grew to like the strange experience of being precious to a man. Somali men knew how to love, but not with the hopeless tenderness Nyasa soldiers brought to it.

The Somalis never treated the Nyasas as their equals, not even when they soldiered together in the same units. A slight warmth might be shown to a Bantu who proved he was a Mohammedan, though even then there could still linger suspicion and hostility. A great deal of it had to do with looks, facial features, and the Somali, lean and handsome and hawknosed, felt himself to be more becoming than the Bantu African.

In fact the Somalis resented being considered Africans at all, and they demanded different rations and uniform than that given to Bantu. Bantu troops like discipline. Somalis resent it. Every individual Somali fights to stay himself, a person. The Bantu liked the certainty and safety of unit life, and functioned well as a receiver of orders. The Somali fumed under disciplineand loved the irregular life, the scattered patrol and lone effort which might bring him to individual notice, to recognition for what he might achieve on his own. The Bantu had patience. The Somali had to control himself, even when learning how to handle weapons, which he loved and cherished. I have seen a Somali tear a machine gun out of the hands of an instructor and prove on the spot that he needed no more instruction, that he knew it all and could handle and strip and assemble the weapon after one lesson. He had resented the very implication that he needed the long dreary lessons which the instructor seemed resigned to giving him.

When the Somali battalion sailed for the Burma campaign they demanded Indian scale rations, and uniforms with collars on them, 'like Indian troops'. They did not want to dress like the Bantu troops, who wore collarless khaki blouses. They all went into green jungle battledress anyway when they reached the front.

When the Somali battalion, after shattering artillery bombardment from the Japanese guns, finally attacked with the bayonet, they went headlong and their officers could not keep up with them. One of them who was decorated for bravery in that battle, a Degodiya from the Northern Frontier of Somali Kenya, told me that he had enjoyed it, and that he admired the way the Japanese infantry liked to stand and fight it out. But he was not satisfied with the ghee ration they were getting. We had a long converstion about it, and it made me think of the ghee problems in Somalia, and the Somali askari could not understand what I was laughing about,

In the deserts of Somalia the Nyasa soldiers were alright for about six months, but after that, worn down by isolation and heat, insult and hostility form the Somalis, they deteriorated. They could not understand this continual challenge, this nomad machismo, or the sharp, impatient bloody mindedness of the Somali.

********************************

.(Xoogsade: The Somali veterans in Burma related that they were impressed with the courage of the yellow man, not so much with whitey's. It was the same story with Mad Mac and his buddies when they soiled their pants under severe Moryaaan pressure)

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Xoogsade

Monday, December 25, 2000 - 01:20 pm
Cali Baabah:

How is your mommy?

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MAD MAC

Monday, December 25, 2000 - 01:36 pm
Xoogsade
Remember while Aideed won the war in the short term, we won the battle. The SNA declared a unilateral cease fire on 9 October not because Aideed was a man of peace. We kicked the Haber Gedirs asses over and over again. So don't get too full of yourself. I'd take 10 "whitey" SF guys over 100 SNA Mooryan any day of the week and twice on Sundays. And unlike you, I know what I'm talking about.

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Poisonous

Monday, December 25, 2000 - 03:32 pm
Of 12000 Somalis killed by Mac and co in Som 91-94 8000 were women, children and old ppl...lol...Kicking asses.

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indos

Monday, December 25, 2000 - 06:44 pm
Mad mac for the record i was in mogadishu if u remember the black sunday and am a military officer in the navy, so as u know clinton even said one of his darkest moments as a president was when the 18rangers were killed. even though am not a pro aided supporter i respect his ability as somali hero one day. i went to go back to somali as soon as am done with duty in military good luck to all of u and ahappy eidd

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Junior

Monday, December 25, 2000 - 06:56 pm
lol@Xoogsade

I agree..but will someone please stop using the word Moryaan?..Its annoying,is even beginning to sound like a nick name for Hawiye? Stop!!!!! lol@

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MAD MAC

Tuesday, December 26, 2000 - 02:48 am
Poisonous
I'm sure Indos can vouch for me when I say that when the shooting started, your women, children and old people didn't exactly run indoors. They were, as often as not, active participants in the fighting.

Here's some food for thought. When we cleared the Paki checkpoint that divided the green line, thousands of Somalis lined the road (National Street) and were cheering us (the woman were doing that funny thing with their tongues). Why do you think they were doing that???? Most Somalis did not support the SNA, contrary to popular fiction now being offered by SNA supporters and those folks who are just anti-American in principal.

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Galool

Tuesday, December 26, 2000 - 04:23 am
Xoogsade

You know what, It sounded like you were enjoying that racist BS about some poor and ignorant soldiers fighting whitey's wars sixty years ago!

I know you weren't, it just sounded like that!

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Anonymous

Tuesday, December 26, 2000 - 07:52 am
Mad mac,
You said"I'm sure Indos can vouch for me when I say that when the
shooting started, your women, children and old people didn't
exactly run indoors. They were, as often as not, active
participants in the fighting. "

Lol! That's exactly right,the u.s. military has a world-renown reputation for going out of it's way to avoid civilian casualties(women and children).This is the reason that when third world countries find themselves in conflict with americans,they use civilians as human shields.Somalis did the same.Knowing that the average u.s. soldier isn't a baby-killer.

I tell you,I think we in/from third world countries ought to be thankfull that a stable-minded super power like the united states,basicly runs the world.Suppose the germans or soviets did,do you think thet would give a damn about chopping down women,children and old people?I DON'T.

Last,the u.s. left somalia,not because of the petty resistance the mooryan put up,but becuase it's intentions there were more political,than military.

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Anonymous

Tuesday, December 26, 2000 - 07:59 am
Galool,
You said"You know what, It sounded like you were enjoying that racist BS
about some poor and ignorant soldiers fighting whitey's wars sixty
years ago! "
Lol! Do you honestly think that he is the only somali who thinks this way.It's my guess that a hefty percentage of somali males have/or know about this book and treasure it's content.Why because they feel especially proud that a white man(the richest and most powerfull race on earth)had a certain level of respect for darkies(somalis).

It's only natural to seek affirmation and acceptance from the powerfull.hehe!

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Xoogsade

Tuesday, December 26, 2000 - 10:52 am
"For years before the white man appeared in East Africa the Somalis had been driveing south towards Kenya, wiping out the Galla and moving across the Jubba river, while down south they had been pushing back the Boran, both the Galla and Boran falling back against the spears of the Masai. In the eighties and nineties of the last century the Masai were enfeebled by smallpox, by the new disease, pleuro-pneumonia, so virulent to an unaccustomed host, and their inter-tribal wars had weakened them further. Even so they were still formidable, yet from years spent among the warrior tribes of the Somalis I doubted if the Masai, even at their best, could have withstood the Somali warriors for long. It would have been a jihad for the Somalis, as it was against the pagan Galla and Boran, a holy war of the believers against the kafirs, the infidels, than which there is nothing more headlong, not even the prize of thousands of cattle. This war of the Masai and the Somalis would certainly have taken place had the white man not appeared, so that by accident the white man saved the Masai, and the Kikuyu, the Nandi, the Wakamba, the... No matter how well organized in their regiments, and they organized well, I could not see the Masai standing up against Somali warriors, such as the Degodiya and the Marehan."

*************************************************
*************************************************

This makes me recall the time I was bantering with some Ethiopian friends and after they started boasting about the way they kicked our asses in '77. I shut them up by pointing out that if it were not for the Rooskies and Cubans(haraabweyn, they have chest like a small girls tits!!!!!!!! ) that we would be conducting the very conversation in Somali!!!

So it was ever thus that Somali aspirations were at every turn being thwarted by the odious white man. If it were not for the white man Somali would be lingua franca of Africa spoken from the Indian Ocean to the Atlantic. We were undone by superior technology and traitors in our midst like Galool and this Anonymous woman(Long may you remain that way, you and your filthy, misbegotten progeny).

Sadly Somalia will never rise again because the Somali character has become so attenauated, that this Hibernian adventurer would scarcely recognize the people who call themselves Somali nowadays. Bunch of feminized nitwits forever chanting the vacuous homilies of western liberalism or brutish thugs commiting atrocities that would have been anathema to Somali tradition(caada-dhaaf).

Sad, very sad.

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Tah Hotep

Tuesday, December 26, 2000 - 03:13 pm
When European began seriously to expand in middle of the 15th century they immediately came into contact with peoples whom they could enslave. in Europe, as elsewhere at that time, slavery was an accepted, if limited, practice and had always been limited so, Due shortage or scarcity of material or slaves.

With respect to the European expansion from 15th century until the present they could not defeat Somalis with their superior technology, which guaranteed the exploitation and defeat of many other races.

It was not only superiority that somalis had, they were also brave and hostile. That is why Somalia existed.

Friendly toward unknown people or intruders had its downside that is why it takes its toll among other native Africans

I give you an example:
Vasco Da gama could name a coastal district in southeast africa Terra da Boa gente: land of the good people"
He characterized them as a gentle friendly, and very hospitable always smile when they talk, not afraid of strangers, offer you their meals and homes for shelter, indeed very good nature.

Christopher Columbus could report that the Amerindians were of " excellent and acute understanding" and describe them as " a loving, uncoventeous people, so docile in all things that there is no better people..Or better country they loved their neighbours as themselves and they had the sweetest and gentlest way of speaking in the world, and always smile"
Writing of Hurons in 1640 father Le Jeune said:

I naturally compare our savage with certain villagers because both are usually without education; though our peasant are superior in this regards: and yet I have not seen anyone thus far, of those who have come to this country who does not confess and frankly admit that the savage are more intelligent than our ordinary man.

Yet, only a century later, these black and amerinds,originally described in such a glowing terms by European explorer, could be characterized as : lazy, filthy pagan, of bestial morals, no better than dogs and fit only slavery, in which state alone there might be some hope of converting them Christianity" now you see the inferiority complex that the white man suffers. When they could not beat Somalis in every way, they send their spies like Mad Mac to brag around here how many innocent children and defenseless women they butchered in Mogadishu.

That is why a white man can not stand with Somalis as one of them said in English parliament " we can stand a dark man who give us good fight but accept his inferiority, but we can not tolerate a dark man who give us good fight at the same time superior than us"
I have no more to say but viva Somalia and those hardcore patriots whom kept us alive....
it is such a tragedy to see the extinction of those true Somalis.
I am last standing...lol
I am losing my sense of humor here bye all and

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Basra

Tuesday, December 26, 2000 - 03:24 pm
Professor Xoogsade...still Lecturing? looool


Mad mac ..ever had of Anthropology class?If you ever get interested to take this course at college, you should try antropology of Somalis,you'll get straight A's......Promise.


Other than that..everyone is boring here!loooool

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Alipapa

Tuesday, December 26, 2000 - 04:12 pm
Folks,

would you please give a break?. Did i hear you saying that you got something to be proud of?.

Look, with due all respect, i think when you came to western world, your little egoes have been crashed and you are all reduced to size of a bug!. you went so low in the world of self esteem. That is only why you are sollacing and yearning some history words that some gaal said ago'n long time.
C'moon you can do better than that ... and i swear.

As Galool said trying to get satifiction and inspiration from some gaal's words only shows how much you hate yourself and how low self esteem you are.

As i said, you can do better. Don't you go to school and see how smart you can be and how you can beat everybody!. Don't you go to interview job and fooled everybody by claiming "waa daadshey" (i am jerk of all trade)?. Don't you see how you can out perform eveybody at work place?. There are zillion things that you can out score eveybody else here in the west. you don't need to live on and yearn the past and seek satisfiction some gaal's words. All you need is to know to your homework.

eidul mubaarak,

xoogsade,

keep on pretending that you didn't get hit and keep on changing the subjects whenever you were caught red-handed."you can run but you can not hide".

Alipapa

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MAD MAC

Wednesday, December 27, 2000 - 03:59 am
Xoogsade
I think you should keep in the back of your mind that the key to Somali success in the early phases of the Ogaden war was the fact that they were loaded with Armor (both soviet and American). The Ogaden is great tank country!!! The Ethiopians were very much short on armour. The Ethiopians (when taken in the aggragate) have far more resources than the Somalis for the Somalis to win a mid intensity war UNLESS they have a sigifnicant techonological advantage or can force a division among the various Ethiopian tribes.
As for a future Somali rise, military capabilities on the modern battlefield are, as they were 25 years ago, based on technological, material and economic resources. Fighting spirit, while important, won't help you even a little bit if you don't have these critical elements.

Tah Hotep
There's more racist nonsense in this than I dare entertain. On the one hand you decry white mans racism (I decry it too) then on the other hand you boaast about Somali superiority. What's wrong with that picture?

Basra
I had a Lieutenant who was an anthropology major. He was with 2-14 Infantry in Hamer. He taught me the concept of segmentary opposition, so applicable to the Somali environment.

As for everyone else, sorry I brought this whole thing up (OK, have sorry, the debate has been fun). I didn't expect the response I got, I thought everyone would think it was kind of interesting reading and maybe want to check out the book. didn't realize it would lead to recrimination upon recrimination. Guess I should have known better. Jeez.

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Galool

Wednesday, December 27, 2000 - 04:49 am
Xoogsade

Me a traitor!? That is rich coming from someone who so passionately advocates the dismemberment of the Somali nation, (through your support for Somaliland).
Your hypocrisy is truly astounding!

Besides you seem to be hankering after a glorious past that never existed. We did not resist European colonisation any more vigorously than any other African nation, and some, like the Zulus, had put up a far more spirited fight than we ever did. That is a simple historical fact.
On the contrary, we were such pussycats that even the shoe-less arabs from Oman ruled whole chunks of Southern Somalia for 80 years and eventually sold it to the Italians! Brave, warlike and proud? I think not!
There never was a "Somali civilization" like you had in some other parts of Africa and technologically, we were right at the bottom of the heap.

Fast forward, and we are still right at the bottom of the heap again! I can't think of anything that we ever did or had which we should be proud of.

You accuse others of unsomali behaviour, yet you readily insult Somali women who dare to have opinions different to yours. That is not only Unsomali and Unmanly, but qualifies as the Mother of All Hypocrisies!

Good-Eid Father of Hypocrites!

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Galool

Wednesday, December 27, 2000 - 05:08 am
Anonymous

Americans will intentionally kill women and children as readily as the Rwandans if they feel their interests are threatened, and have done so in the past.
You seem to have forgotten Hiroshima and Nagasaki, My Lai, and countless German cities that were fire-bombed during the WW11.

Above examples were no "collateral damage", but calculated and deliberate massacre of children in school uniforms, patients in hospitals, mothers giving birth, lovers in their beds and men in their work places. In fact the Hiroshima bomb was bloody-mindedly timed to coincide with start of the working day to cause maximum casualties.

So, don't listen to all that Uncle Sam gallantry BS. It only exists in Hollywood movies. The reality is far more uglier.

Having said that, I agree that US influence around the world today is generally a benign one.

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MAD MAC

Wednesday, December 27, 2000 - 05:21 am
Galool
You are half right. In our training and indoctrination, we are trained to avoid collateral damage when possible. However, once the fighting gets going, we can become as bad as the next guy. Certainly our disinclination to kill woman and kids was exploited by the SNA - I don't think that's disputable. But I also wouldn't dispute your other contentions of historical context. However, keep in mind that was another era, when mass bombing raids without the advent of precision munitions made collateral damage acceptable and the notion of breaking the enemies will through the destruction of his cities also acceptable - even if no one wants to admit it. Remember, we did not, for example, fire bomb Belgrade or Bagdhad (though it might have been a lot of fun to try it out). I think at the soldier level our troops receive a fair amount of training that troops in say, the Haber Gedir Militias, don't get in terms of the law of land warfare. I could be wrong here, but you have to concede maybe I have a point.

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Xoogsade

Wednesday, December 27, 2000 - 01:37 pm
This is some good debate. To be continued.

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Tah Hotep

Wednesday, December 27, 2000 - 02:19 pm
Concerning the art of warfare let me inspire you Mr Mad Mac. First and Foremost to fight and conquer in all your battle is not supreme excellence; there is heavy price to pay, supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting. america failed that.
In practical art of war, the best thing of all is to take the enemy's country whole and and intact you want to know how? just ask me. to shatter and destroy it is not so good and exactly that is what you did to innocent babies and women.

Thus the highest form of generalship is to balk enemy's plan: with your superior technology you could have done it easily but failed again.
the next best is to prevent the junction of enemy's forces, the next in order is to attack the enemy's army in the field. and worst policy of all is to besiege walled city and that is why you been kicked by mooryaan with no military training whatsoever.
I wonder what happen to your superior military training and state of art equipment as you failed handling small units of mooryaans.

I rest my case military case.

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Devils_love

Wednesday, December 27, 2000 - 02:52 pm
Xoogsade :

I am in agreement that the character and the courage of the dreaded somalis are no much to those of Eithopians ...forget about the Bantus...my understanding is...that Bantus concede defeat or retreat before the guns are drawn....rumour has it that somali women alone will suffice to wage a constant on-slought against them....I remember a while back when ARSINIO HALL's show was on he air...there was an episode where iman was to appear...and ARSINIO was making fun of how the so called "RANGERS"...who were supposedly the best trained army of the states ...were defeated by a somali militia....He jokingly said and I qoute "If the black slaves here in america were SOMALIS white men's ass would have been kicked long time ago"....Indeed my people are wariors there is no need for me to brag about..it is in the history ..and quite frankly that has backfired on us...because we turned those blazing guns against us...nevertheless one has to know the history of the somalis to distinguish from the passive african tribes...the old greec used to refer the somalis as the black barbars...the portugese piss on their pant...when the hear somalis....the Eithopians....would rather eat a raw meat....than wait for the somali wariors to butcher them.


As one American soldier put it.. "somalis are the TARTARS and MONGOLS of the 21 century".....I am proud of being somali...and yes we do kill if we deem it appropriate......


Love to all my Somali people....

Devils Love.

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Devils_love

Wednesday, December 27, 2000 - 03:50 pm
Galool:

Keep in mind that Zulus were butchered and murdered by the thousands....while the great somalian warior SAYID MOAHAMED was massacring the top brass of the Royal British Army...While the zulu's attacks barely hindered the british army's advance on south african territory....the somalian war against the British was constant and so relentless...that the British had to resort a far more superior weapons like Firing Jets and Attack planes....

Clearly it is in the history that somalia was the first country in AFRICA that Jets were used to fight against them. You tell me what would have made jets essential to fight against bunch of nomads who are fighting while riding on a horse. I can only think of one thing..FEAR..FEAR....


Remember that HUTUS despite the fact they are 80% of the population were all displaced and kicked out of Ruwanda by minority TUTSI who trace their ancestory back to EAST AFRICA...Well..there is certainly some somalian linkage...perhabs TUTSIS were lost through the nomadic life...that sometimes takes tribes to a unfriendly territory....but they still show signs of resemblence...be it features or bravery....My God.....they are trully the lost tribes of SOMALIA.





Devils Love.

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MAD MAC

Thursday, December 28, 2000 - 12:30 am
Devils Love
Man you guys kill even when it's not appropriate. Face it, most Somalis just like to kill. It's a somali thing.

Tah-Hotep
You just put down the Art of War by Sun Tsyu or what?? Hell, the quotes are almost verbatim. when the Art of War was written, however, he wasn't really addressing Operations Other Than War like we were facing in Somalia. The SNA was damn lucky the MAC faction wasn't calling the shots or they would have been toast. And any other Gedirs who got in the way would have been toast too. And it would have taken about a week. You guys thought the civil war was tough, we'd have visited destruction like you read about. You got lucky that the weak knee'd among us made the calls.

Remember, the Mooryan didn't really win anything. And they never really hurt us militarily. They broke our political will - no great feat there, that's easy enough to do. Essepcially when fighting a Clinton Administration (now fading to history, Insha Allah).

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dick

Thursday, December 28, 2000 - 06:05 am
mad mac

what are you telling us,that the Bush Jr administration would storm somalia once again,to finish what his father started?

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dick

Thursday, December 28, 2000 - 06:13 am
mad mac

i had this fear ever since he won that he would do just that.even if not,he would try to shape somalia to his dream,and cause alot of misery to alot of innocent people.

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Galool

Friday, December 29, 2000 - 11:31 am
Devils & Xoogsade

I do not understand where your hostility for our fellow Africans comes from. As far as I know they never did us any harm.

I think some home truths may be in order here, particularly for Devil boy. Sayyid MA Hassan failed to win a single battle with the British and their Somali allies during his whole campaign. NOT ONE BATTLE! He did not kill that many Brits either. (56 sticks in my mind, can anyone please give exact figures)

Sadly his main victims were actually other Somalis who disagreed with him. Some(mainly but not exclusively Issaqs) were of course traitors who perhaps deserved retribution, but he also targetted any group that had the cheek not to join his Dervishes!

The Zulus on the other hand made their mark on the world map for their organization and guts. It is worthwhile to remember that Britain lost more men in a single battle with the Zulus (Isndwana) than it lost in the whole conquest of the Indian sub-continent! So all this "Warrior" nonsense is actually not supported by historical facts.

Sorry lads, but it may time you started appreciating that many other human values are far more important, and more useful than killing people!

Mad-Mac

There is no need to even contemplate camparing the SNA with the US army. Most SNA militia were lucky if they were taught which end of a Kalashnikov should face the enemy!

But my general point stands. We are all capable of committing the most atrocious and barbaric acts, given the "right" circumstances. This includes the deliberate murder of women and children, torture and mutilation. Everybody has done at some point. And I disagree with you that WW11 was somehow in a " different era". 60 years is extremely short even by the standards of man's tiny evolutionary history.

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Anonymous

Friday, December 29, 2000 - 12:25 pm
Xoogsade and/or devil,
I am more than inclined to agree with many of galool's last statements.The"mad mullah's"primary victims were other somalis.He killed very few brits.

Also,the spreading of somalis throughout the horn,wasn't a carefully orchestrated military campaine as many(even some western historians)like
to belive.It was to do with desertification,whereby more sedentary and cattle herding people sought greener pastures further south and west.I am sure that the galla/oromo people of east africa put up a hell of a fight,when they had to.I mean,even to this day they number about 20 million in ethiopia and kenya,so who could claim that they were wiped out
by somalis?.

Also,I think the british interjection in east africa,had very little effect in halting the somalis spreadig throughout africa.We had hundreds of years to push south ,if we really could have.

Your statements are a wee-bit far-fetched.Why not also say that somalis(without european intervention)would have pushed through northern kenya,tanzania,zimbabwe,and south africa eventually defeating the zulus in south africa.After that we would have spread westward through the sudan,wiping out the black/arab tribes like the bedyat.Then we would have pushed fruther west decimating the black west african empires like the mali and songhai.After somali control of sub-saharan africa was complete,we would have pushed north wiping out the arabs and berber people.Then we would have colonized europe and placed a somali outpost in every country.

ANYONE WHO BELIEVES THE ABOVE(or similarly)IS DEFINATELY SMOKING CRACK.

anon lady

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Xoogsade

Friday, December 29, 2000 - 01:47 pm
Galool:

I have nothing against our African brothers, I was merely presenting some historical character studies. Perhaps I just want to remind the young ones out there about the noble history of their people which they won't learn in White's schools. I had the good fortune to listen to some of the oldtimers including men who have soldiered with Sayid Maxamed and who used to recite his poetry and tell the tales of the campaingns. Others who fought in the Second war overseas. Some who fought alongside the British when they recaptured Somalia from the Eyeties. Some who fought tribal skirmishes. They all used to tell us the history of Somalia in this momentous century. They also used to teach us about the myths and legends of Somalia. The uniqueness of the Somalis and their history. One nation, many tribes, one religion and one language. I just want to clarify and sharpen that Somali identity in this forums for the benifit of the young, speciaaly in these days of touchy feely, we are all the same pepople liberal hooey.

If it appears chauvinistic, that is your problem so work it out.

As for the Sayid:

There were four main expeditions in the first four years of the century against the Dervishes. There were 18 skirmishes during these expeditions. Most of them were minor skirmishes.

The biggest battles occured at Beerdhiga and Fardhidin where the dervishes inflicted some damage but suffered some reverses and had to withdraw. The British easily conceded that the Dervishes on both occasions showed incredible bravery and commitment to the cause. At Beerdhiga the British put their casualties at 150 men but only 3 British officers and the Dervish casualtes at 62 killed. The dervishes claimed to have killed 1000 men. The anecdotal evidence of the region gives more credence to the dervish account of events.

The biggest victory recorded by the dervishes came at Cagaarweyne(Gunburu) when they completely overran the enemy position and utterly destroyed them. The British claimed 9 British officers(All of the British officers) dead, 187 men dead, 29 wounded.

The Dervishes claimed to have killed more in this instance as well. Although the British never contested the reality of their military defeat at Cagaarweyne they satisfied themselves by terming it a "pyrrhic victory". And indeed the dervishes suffered frightful losses.

Regarding your point that few Brits were killed during the course of this campaign, you have to remember that their numbers were few and far between. They only provided the officer material.
A more telling statistic is the percentage of the total British officer corps in Somalia killed by the dervishes. You will find it very high indeed.

Their forces typically consisted of 50% local levies(Somali). The rest Sudanese, Sikhs, Hindus, Africans etc. officered by Brits.

But beyond all the battle statistics, the Sayid's greatest victory was the fact that due to the constant harrassment the British eventually had to retreat to the Coast adopting the ill-fate policy of Coastal Concentration. In his book on the dervish movement, H Prevost Battersby, no lover of the Sayid, bitterly reflects that the Sayid had the singular and unprecedented success of actually rolling up the union jack and forcing the King to surrender territory under his lawful protection. With all due respect to the author this was the second time(America being the first) that His Brittanic Majesty was forced on the backfoot. That the Sayid was unable to build on this success was due to his political clumsiness.

Ps:

I have immense respect for the Zulus. Tremendous people. Noble and proud warrior race with a distinguished history.


Anon Lady:

Your excellent sarcasm notwithstanding, I agree that Somali expansion was haphazard and unorganized and primarily motivated by the search for greener pastures.

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dick

Friday, December 29, 2000 - 02:43 pm
GALOOL

first of all you are the one who is with hate.a hate directed against your own people.you are nothing but a foreigner ass-wiper.you are blinded to the history of your people.may be your grand fathers were nobodies and could not take part in the actions of liberation.but dont think that other peoples grand fathers didnt do nothing. my great grand father fought with "mad mullah".and he rebelled against him too.and alot of his familly members were wiped out.but that dont make me bitter and deny the fact that mad mullah was the greatest, the Brittish ever faced.it took 30yrs for the British to defeat the daring darvish and it took them one single battle to silence the Zulus forever.Britain sent 32 expedition to mad mullah and only won two.We all know how they won the last one,they used fire power and flying beast as mad mullah stated in his last poem,but do you know how they won the first one.this is how they won and at the same time it will give a picture of how the Darvishes mastered the art of tactical warfare,which the brittish were miserably ignorant.

Britain sent one of its largest expendition against mad mullah,and the order was to get him even if he goes to South Africa.

the british knew only one way of fighting.Iam sure if you watched American Independence war you know what iam taliking about.About facing the darvishes,they line up there canons and heavy wepons,and their soldiers ,in a long line across a desert field.Waiting for the Darvishes to show up and charge like mad men to the waiting inferno.But the darvishes didnt do that.they were not stupid enough like the Zulus to walk into a blazing fire.Infact they were hiding in a valley ahead,in order to fool the brittish to think that the darvish scared away,and attack them when they load up their heavy wepons and are on the move.

After three long days that was about to happen,and the brittish commader ordered his army to load up and prepare for a hot persiut.But unfortunayely there was two traitors with the Brittish,who defected from the mad mullah.they know how the darvish fight,and they told the secret to the commander.they told the commnder that they are hundred percent sure that the darvish are hiding in the valley ahead,and they asked for hundred men on horses in order to smoke them out.they said that the darvish were crazy ,and if fired at, they will charge after them and come out into the open.then the soldiers would retreat and run toward the main army.and then they would divide into two groups.one to the left and one to the right,and leave the darvishes at the middle of the of the open field.Then the British could unleash whatever fire power they have, at them.

2500 darvishes perished that day,and they had no choise but to retreat.the british were after them.At sun set the darvishes camped.At the camp fire mad mullah asked the wisemen,on what they think should be done.the darvishes were surounded by enemies at all corners.The Italians to the south,the Ethiopians to the west,the Majerteen to the east and the Brittish to the north.There was no escape.

The wisemen were sitted in a circle,and mad mullah went round asking each and every one for advice.each one of them wisemen said somthing,but there was one who said nothing,and mad mullah was not contented with the advice given by others.Finally after several rounds, he come back to the quiet one and said, today it is your advice or we all perish.The silent oldman then said..

"LET US RUN AWAY FROM THE PEOPLE OF HELL INTO THE LAND OF HELL"

Every one knew what he meant by the LAND OF HELL.The land of hell was unhospitable part of NUGAAL region, where even the hardest nomad, would avoid.It is rocky with shape cliffs,thorny and with snakes and scopions.and also exreamely hot with no water for hundreds of miles.It was impossible for the Brittish with their heavy weapons to venture into the unforgiving land.The only way they could go in is with light weapons and they would be butchered mercilessly.mad mullah knew that and he ordered his men to pack up in the night and not wait for the day light,coz the Bittish were not far away.The Brittish never came after them and mad mullah recovered and fought for another ten years.

So that is how the Brittish won and loose,and the darvish loose and won.

So Galol shut the fuckup and stop talking trash, if you dont know nothing about how our grand fathers saved us, from the slave neckless of the whitemen.You should be thankful that alot of men laid down their life for your freedom.Otherwise today you would be born in harlem or equally miserable place as a grandson of an ex-slave.

IF IT WASNT FOR THOSE TWO TRAITORS LIKE YOUR GRAND FATHERS,THE BRITTISH WUOULD HAVE BEEN DOOMED IN HELL THAT DAY.

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Ice-Man

Friday, December 29, 2000 - 03:54 pm
Word. Dick

My great grandfather fought that war. I am damn proud of it.remember those who hate Sayid mohamed and his struggle Jihad were collaborators

Later

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SAALIM

Friday, December 29, 2000 - 07:27 pm
MAD MAC.....Whatever U R...let me ask U this? why this hatred to one Somali CLAN..THE HABAR GHEDIRS?

To all MY Somali brothers and sisters...forget our pride ....just let's not be divided and ruled...show me some love and that makes me proud!

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Galool

Saturday, December 30, 2000 - 03:26 am
Dick

You obviously have the IQ of a mentally-handicapped cockroach, so I will not attempt to decipher what is emanating from your $hit-smeared little antenna.

Some little facts you can take down to the sewer with you and discuss it with your fellow-cockroach brains:

Fact: SMA Hassan was a murdering thug who killed
lots of Somalis simply because they
disagreed with him. (a pity your ancestor
wasn't one of them, could have saved us the
stench!)

Fact: He lost every single battle during the
whole campaign.
Fact: He fled from tiny little planes that
could have only remained in air for no
more than 20mins.
Fact: The British clearly remember the Zulus,
the Ethiopians, the Sudanese and the
Ashanti - and respect them.
Not so with SMA Hassan.
Fact: Nobody laid down their lives for my
freedom. The British and the Eyeties
were looking for ways of escaping the
place ever since they occupied it!
"No water, no gold and locals are
$hit-for-brains" is what they said (they
must have met your grandfather)

And now shoo! there is the sewer! follow the smell and join your grandfather!

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jamiila

Saturday, December 30, 2000 - 05:54 am
THIS IS PERHAPS THE LAST GOOD DEBATE... SOME PEOPLE CAN'T CONROLE THEIR FEELINGS..I'VE FALOWED THIS DEBATE AND FOR ONCE I REALLY INJOYED JUST READING AND NOT ANSWERING... IT IS THE BEST DEBATE IN THIS DISCUSSION FORUM.. MANY SMART AND INTELIGENT PEOPLE ARE HERE TO SHARE THEIR OPPINOINS AND THIER WISDOM.. IF ONE DOESN'T THINK LIKE THE OTHER THEN COREECT EACH OTHER WITH RESPECT...DON'T SINK SO LOW THAT YOU INSULT EACH OTHER THAT IS REACHING THE BOTTOM... ACT LIKE ADULTS AND DEBATE IN A CIVILISED WAY.......

I'M VERY INTRESTED OF HISTORY AND I WHANA KNOW WERE CAN I LEARN SOMALIAN HISTORY..I LIVE IN EUROPE AND I HAVE NEVER COME A CROSS A BOOK WITH SOMALIAN HISTORY..SO I WOULD BE VERY THANK FUL IF YOU TOLD ME WERE I CAN GET THEESE BOOKS..

MAD MAC YOU STARTED THIS DEBATE..SO KEEP UP WITH IT DON'T GO

GALOOL YOU HAVE STRONG OPPINIONS AND I SEE THAT YOU STRONGLEY BELIVE IN THEM..ALTHOUGH IT MIGHT BE RIGHT ( I DON'T KNOW AS I SAID NOT WELL INFO IN SOMALIE AND AFRICAN HISTORY) SOMETIMES IT WOULD JUST DO YOU GOOD IF YOU WERE LITTLE OPPEN MINDED...THE SAME TO DICK AND ALL THE OTHERS
...

ONE THINK THOUGH YOU TALK ABOUT WOMEN AS IF THEY WERE IN NEED OF HELP.. I'M NOT FEMINIST BUT HAVE YOU EVER THINK OF WHAT WOULD HAPPEN...

IF YOU GAVE WOMEN THE SAME TRAINING AS MEN AND SENDED THEM TO FIGHT ???

I WHANA HEAR YOUR THAOUGHTS ABOUT THAT

KEEP UP WITH THE DISSCUSSION...HONESTLY IT'S THE BEST.....

BYE AND TAKE CARE

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Xoogsade

Saturday, December 30, 2000 - 10:39 am
Galool:

Maybe you share something with the cockroach. Every time the light is shone on your murky arguments you make a beeline for the gutter. What is with the bile? I am disappointed that some young tyro can make you lose your composure like that!

As for your assertion that the Sayid lost every battle, well that is just silly, isn't it? And pray tell why did the infidels resort to aerial bombardment if they had the measure of him? In fact this was just about the best way they could get him out of his heavily fortified structures.

And do not doubt the psychological impact of these flying machines:

Even in 1935 they were still causing consternation among the nomadic warriors.

This poem illustrates the point. Composed by the Ogaden poet, Maxamuud Cali Beenalay. Having been chased and harried by Mussolini's planes all over the Qabridahare and environs, this is what he said in comic resignation:

Cirka waxaan sallaanku u sudhnayn sida sayaariinta
Oon saraca hoosiyo arlada cagaha saaraynin
Oo siifadduu kaga hanqarin haadku sare joogsan
Oo laga salsaliyoon lahayn siigo iyo leexo
Oon lagu salaaxayn haddaad sumuc ku liishaanto
Belaayada qalbiga suurisaye samada xiimaysa
Oo sool dhexeetiyo hawada sulunsulxaynaysa
Oo gaal sameeyoon Illaah nolol u suuraynin
Baa sebenka Ciid looga tegay sabashadeediiye
Oo sanada dayrtiyo arlada loogu suudalaye
Dhulka wixii socdaa laga holaa samay colaadeede
Xagga sare wax kaa dilahayoo sun iyo baaruud leh
Oo aanad dagaal lagu sardamay kaga sed qaadaynin
Inaad samirto mooyee ma jiro waxaad samaysaaye

Sarsar awdan saamo iyo aqal siibad iiyo daaro
Siraad iyo bannaan soohdin iyo sud iyo meel hawda
Socod iyo negaansho iyo fadhi seexad iyo rooris
Sina waxaanad kaga maag helayn nalagu soo saarye
Saddex boqol haddaad sii dhaxdiyo saayid iyo maalmo
Salaadii dilaacdaba Iblays dhalada kaa saaran
Oo Eebbhahay kugu salliday saancad kama weyna!!

Sanaciisa laga fajacay ninkii bahashan soo saaray
Sixir lagu tusyaa iyo farsamo waxu sameeyaaba
Alleylehe ninkaaasaaa sanciyo saayiqnimo sheegtay!

Wax sawaabka haadeed leh baa saabtay dunidiiye
Sintuu dhigay Amxaarkii lahaa seerahaan jebine
Kolka adigu Soomaliyeey qaado samirkaaga
Oo dhaha "Sinyoorow na daa waanu soo geliye!!"

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MAD MAC

Saturday, December 30, 2000 - 11:04 am
Galool
I think you over-state things some. The Mad Mullah is remembered in British Military History and he was able to force the British into their garrisons along the coast. This is, of course, largely due to the fact that they were not willing to expend the resources to subdue him (not becuase they could not, as Dick seems to allude to). You are, however, amsolutely correct when you say that the vast majority of his victims were Somalis. During his 20 years of trouble 1 in 3 Somalis in Somaliland died. It was refered to as the time of eating filth.

Dick
You should avoid falling back on the excuse making and childish notion that some defeat or failure to achieve victory was the result of deception or lying or treachery. The truth is, all armies emplyoy reconnaisance forces. It's pretty hard to believe the British would not in Somalia, so achieving a tactical surprise of the type you are talking about in a largely desert environment is tough to conceive of. The British didn't get where they were by being stupid military tactictians.

Saalim
I use to hate the Haber Gedir. I'm over it now. It's easy to develop extreme dislike when people are trying to blow your head off and kill some of your friends. I took a dim view of it.

Jamilla
I'm not going anywhere - don't worry. As for woman in combat, I can personally vouch for the fact that women can soldier reasonably well, however, they are physically weaker and infantry style combat is VERY physically demanding, so for this role in military operations I think women are generally unsuitable.

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DICK

Saturday, December 30, 2000 - 01:47 pm
Word-Up bro,galool is sufering from WHITEMAN ASS-WIPERS SYNDROME.Its generic--like grandpa like grand son.

GALOOL

Iam not gonna urgue with about the UNdesputable victories homed by the dervishes,coz every one can see that you are totally ignorant about them,and you reserved personal hate for the Mullah and his achievement as a somali hero.And you are not alone,half of the somali population dont like him,solely coz of his courage and believe in his religion.If i was in his shoes,i will cut the neck of any traitor.The worst enemy is always the enemy within,and that is what caused the down fall of MAD MULLAH.

You put weight on the fact that the darvish run away from a plane.for your info it was not only one plane but more than a dozen.And if you go back in time,you will realize that aeroplanes were invented by the wright-brothers not long ago,and 90% of then world popullation couldnt even comprehend that such thing existed.aeroplanes were at its infancy and europeans started using it for war few years earlier.And infact those planes used against the Mullah were one of the very few to cross the southern hamesphere,and were the first to ever,to fly over the blue skys of Africa.

So put yourself in the shoes of those brave men,and tell me what would you have done,when you are confronted by a flying beast,spiting fire and death and at the same time fighting ground forces WITH CANONS AND ARTILERY, who out numbered you,and attacked you in surprise.AND ALSO RIDING A HORSE WHICH PANICKED AT THE SIGHT OF THE DEADLY FLYING BEAST.

The Brittish took advantage of the ten years sease-fire which they signed with the Mullah,and attacked him in surprise.The darvishes were also preparing themself for the final show down,but they were caught off gaurd,and they paid dearly for for relaxing, but NOT without Bravery.As one English commander witnessed when he attacked a remote darvish strong hold in Las Gorey.

He said "WE MET HERE THE BRAVEST OF ALL BRAVES.AND THE LAST ONE OF THEM CHARGED ON US.AND WE OPEN FIRE,AND ALMOST ALL OF THEM WERE SHEIKHS,HAJIS AND MAALIMS".

This are the words of the enemy commemarating on the bravery of his opponent.

Mind you the darvish had their OWN plan prior to the surprise attack.due to the peace accord,mad mullah built his army, and was importing arms.And he sent spies to yemen.he aquired warships and was planning to invade YEMEN and cut off the life line from the Brittish army in Somalia.One of this Spies was the Famous Alimax,the one who fall in love with Awralla,and dies of it.MAD MAC and JAMILLA you should read this book.It is called "IGNORANCE IS THE ENEMY OF LOVE".It will give you an insight into the lifes of somalis at the begging of the 20th centuary.And also the legendry tales of Alimax and Awralla.

Galool,you said that the Brittish still remember the Zulus,Sudanese and the ASHANTIS of west Africa.The reason is simple.The Brittish defeat them all and force them to bow-down.And the Ethiopians survived,coz the christian nations were obsessed with them since the begining of time,and they didnt wanted to bring down a christian nation in the middle of Islamic region.To them Ethiopia was a symbol of christianity IN THE REGION which they didnt wanna bring down.The only thing the Brittish remember about somalia is doom and defeat and they made sure that the world at large stay ignorant of it.Five books were writen about the Mad Mullah.Two in English,Two in French and One in Italian.I tried hard to get the English copies while i was in UK last year,but i coudnt get them.I went to every library and every major book store.But there was none.I even tried to order one in Amazon.com,but iam still waiting for them to get hold of it.Why is it so hard to get a books like that,if the Brittish didnt take them out of circulation.The truth is they dont wanna the truth to be known,otherwise Holywood would take advantage and make a killer movies out them.
You also said that the brittish were dying to get out of somalia.The question is why did they stayed so long,and loose lifes, if Somalia wasnt so important for them.Somalia was important to them then, the same way it was important to the Americans and the Russians,and still is.

Richard Barton once siad that "TO A SOMALI,SOMALIA IS THE CENTER OF THE UNIVERSE".

I believe that is true,Somalia is the gateway of three continents,Africa,Asia and Europe .And who ever controls the Horn controls the trading route of the great seas.It is as important as the Suez Canal.

One more thing to amuse you.At the begining of the "Operation Restore Hope" the Americans asked the Brittish to contribute their "Rapid reactionary force" equavelent to the "delta force of America.".The Brittish government said "NO".

They said "WE DONT WANNA ANOTHER MAD MULLAH'S CAMPAIN IN OUR HANDS" and this is a fact.
THE BRITISH WON, BUT NOT WITHOUT THE HELP AND THE MASSIVE MILITARY SUPPORT OF THE ITALIANS,THE FRENCH,THE ETHIOPIANS AND WORSE OF ALL AND MOST DAMAGING,THE SOMALI TRAITORS.
Sleep well Galool.


MAD MAC,

YOU ARE NOT THE FIRST SCOTTISH TO FIGHT THE IN SCORCHING HEAT OF SOMALIA.SCOTTISH SOLDIERS FOUGHT AGAINST THE MAD MULLAH WAERING SKIRTS.MAD MULLAH HAD MORE RESPECT FOR THEM THAN THE ENGLISH.HE CALL THE SKIRTIES, IN HIS POEMS , "BRAVE MEN IN WOMEN DRESS".


JAMILLA

I will take your advice and refrain from foul words.It is not easy to find somali history books but if you try hard iam sure you will find them.try the Internet,there are alot of stuffs there,you can not believe how much somali history the Internet holds.Some of them dating back thousand of years,and also try the book i mentioned to you above,it is wicked. So take care sister.AND DONT WORRY ABOUT MAD MAC,HE IS SCOTTISH AND HE CAN TAKE WHATEVER THROWN AT HIM

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DICK

Saturday, December 30, 2000 - 02:13 pm
MAD MAC

I DID NOT READ THE LAST PART WHERE YOU WERE TALIKING TO JAMILLA.THAT IS WHY I COME BACK AGAIN.

I TOTALLY DISAGREE WITH YOU THAT WOMEN CANT PERFORM LIKE MEN IN COMBAT,GIVEN THE OPORTUNITY.THE BRITTISH LOST TWO AEROPLANES AT THE LAST BATTLE THEY HAD WITH MAD MULLAH,AND ONE OF THEM WAS DOWNED BY A WOMAN.

VIRGIN WOMEN WERE THE MAIN BODY OF THE ANCIENT QUEENDOM OF QUEEN ARAWELLO OF SOMALIA.AND SHE CONQUORED LANDS AND SUBDUED MEN.AND HER RULE EXTENDED AS FAR AS YEMEN.

WHITE PEOPLE TRIED TO IMITATE THAT IN MOVIES.CALLING THEM AMAZON WOMEN.BUT THE REAL AMAZON WOMEN EXISTED DURING THE REIGN OF QUEEN ARAWELLO.SO DONT TAKE IT FOR GRANTED THAT WOMEN CANT FIGHT IN COMBAT.PAINTINGS OF THE AMAZONIAN WOMEN WERE FOUND WHEN THE CITY OF ARAWELLO WAS UN EARTHED SOME 60YRS AGO.

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Galool

Saturday, December 30, 2000 - 05:03 pm
Xoogsade

You need all the torches you can, since all the lights are certainly out in your brain. The boy Dick has made a habit of using foul language without justification, and I was demonstrating to him that others can use colourful language with far more punch than he can ever muster. Judging from his two last postings, it is a leson well-learnt.

But at least Dick's misguided nationalism is straightforward, honest and consistent. He shares his views with millions of other simpletons up and down the land. Sadly, the only thing consistent and honest about your opinions is the ignorance and the narrow-mindedness.

You challenged my assertion that the Dervishes lost every battle they joined against the Brits. This is of course a historical fact. They lost more men in every battle they ever fought, and they never succesfully "liberated" a single hamlet from colonial rule, even when the English simply upped sticks and left during WW1. In fact the dervishes' only "success" was evading annihilation for 20 years. If you consider that a victory, then so be it! You are drowning in your pointless Chauvinism, and we know what drowning men do - They look in vain for straws amongst the scum!

MM

There are no over-statements in my assertion. It is actually innaccurate to say that the Dervishes "forced" the Brits to do anything.
The British were always thin on the ground in Somaliland. You see, they did not like the place one bit (do you blame them?) and whole swathes of the country was always ungoverned. They removed their armed personnel during WW1, and after arming their Isaq allies, basically left the land at the Dervishe's mercy. It is perhaps a measure of MM's military and political incompetence that he failed to capitalize on this, for he did not take a single town from the disorganized and greedy(no offence to Isaqs, all Somali clans are greedy!) Isaq clans.
Incidentally, this is the period the locals refer to as "Xaraama cune",(which you translated as Filth eating) The Iidoors, now armed to the teeth went on a spree of camel-raiding. They declared open season on their neighbors, on each other and on the Sayyid himself. The object of their desire was, of course camels! Xaraame Cune means "The time of eating the Stolen".

I am also adamant that when compared to the Zulu or Ashanti kings or the Mehdist uprising in the Sudan, the Sayyid is indeed a very small fry in the annals of British military history. MM's exploits are not taught in British schools, no films were made about it, there are no Somali artifacts in London's Museums and no Victoria Crosses were won in the Battles against the Mullah! Relatively speaking, he is a non-entity!

So I really fail to see what exactly I "over-stated"

Dick

Planes were used against the Libyans, the Boers and the Afghans, amongst others. They all stood and fought, unlike MM. Sorry for shattering your nasty little dreams! Shhhhh. Now suck your thumb and go back on the ledge! Attaboy! and watch your step, you may slip on Uncle Xoogsade on your way up! You see he is a little bit slimy!

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MAD MAC

Sunday, December 31, 2000 - 05:03 am
Galool
The key indicator that The Mad Mullah had some success is he is known wworld wide. Like The Mahdi in the Sudan. You must have some success to go from unkown desert nomad to household name. As I said, I think you over-state your case, not that your case is invalid.

Dick
Reread my post. What I said was that infantry combat is very physically demanding and that I find woman GENERALLY unsuitable for this role. I also wrote that there are many military roles for which woman are suitable. From a scientific standpoint woman are about 30% weaker in the aggregate (to be sure there are plenty of exceptions).

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jamiila

Sunday, December 31, 2000 - 05:08 am
MAD MAC I'm not gonna dispute whith you about the women being the man phisically inferior, because that is correct. But have you ever think about when you give women the same training or even more dificullt then the man, and sending them to fight. You said this :

"they are physically weaker and infantry style combat is VERY physically demanding,"

but I wasn't clear when I said that above statement, what I meant to say was if you take from the woman everything that she loves, her family and her beloved country then train her,
do you know what happends? She would be the man very superior in combat. If you give the man the same reason he would as the woman be very angry and he would whanted revange as well, but he wouldn't come far with that, do you know why????

I hope you understood my english

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Anonymous

Sunday, December 31, 2000 - 05:36 am
No we dont understand your english jamilla get a transletor please.

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Galool

Sunday, December 31, 2000 - 06:06 am
Mad-mac

Mad-Mullah a household name? I give up! You're not by any chance trying to suck-up to the Fascist Xenophobes here, are you?

Women will do fine in the US army since Americans no longer "fight" anyone in the true sense of the word. They are so "casualty shy" that they now almost totally depend on aerial bombardment - a task so easy even Xoogsade's toothless granny can undertake it!

Seriously, I see no reason why women should not undertake combat duties, if they so wish. Soviet women served as tank drivers, gunners and fighter pilots during WW2, and Israeli women are trained to fight in the trenches if necessary.

My only concern is how they would react to creepy-crawlies - real ones not Xoogsade and Dick type. I mean you don't want your corporal screaming aaawww! Spider! Spider! Please kill it ! Do something! ....and this is while you were recceing an enemy outpost in the dead of the night! ouch!

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jamiila

Sunday, December 31, 2000 - 07:13 am
Galool

are you insulting the woman in general now?

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Galool

Sunday, December 31, 2000 - 07:59 am
Jamiila

It was a joke!

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Galool

Sunday, December 31, 2000 - 08:01 am
Jamiila

It was a joke!

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DICK

Sunday, December 31, 2000 - 08:55 am
MAD MAC,GALOOL

MAD MULLAH left his country when he was 13yrs old for further learning abroad.he travelled extensively and went as far as Russia.So he want not just a simple nomad.he came back to Somalia when he was 40yrs old.And he found whiteman occupying the land.violating human right and abussing the inhabitant of the land.They even went to the extent of silencing the morning call for prayers.many mosque Imams were shot in could blood for waking up a whiteman in the morning. Most of the people in the coastal cities were merchants and did not wanna do anything to offset thier bussiness and their sole income.One day the Mullah went out of town and met a group of children.And when he asked them who they were,the said they were the children of FATHER so and so,i dont remember the names.the fathers were christian.And Christianity was taking hold of the land.He fought with his mouth for many years,but to no success.The people were adapting first the way of the whiteman.

mad mullah finaly realized that the only way to stop this madness,was by the means of force.And city people were not good candidate of war.So he went to the interior.To the hard core nomad worriors who had nothing to loose but camel,which they could easily replace by looting.And from there on he started the uprising against the infidels.

Galool sometimes i dont know if you are mad,damn or blinded by hate and ignorance.Your case is nothing but an outright denial no matter what.The only men who cama close to mad mullah were mahdi of Sudan and and the Afghan leader who inflicted the deadly blow to the brittish.But none of them lasted as long as the Mad Mullah.mahdi was captured by the brittish and died.mad mullah was killed by a little mosquito,Not the brittish.he peacefully died in Imey,while reorganising his army once more for war.And the Brittish did not leave somalia at the mercy of the dervish.They even tried to excavate his grave and take his borns to England,since they could not get him alive.His familly found out before hand,and re-buried him in unknown grave in unknown location.

And one more thing.Mad Mullah's war was a war of poem.Not only the mad Mullah but the Brittish were into poem.The poems of mad Mullah used to be recited at TRAVALGAR SQAURE.Even the brother of Gen.CORNFIELD excuted by Mad mullah,Recited his own poem at Travalgar Square in suport of his brother,When the Brittish government discredited him.May be Mad mullah,s history is not taught in schools in Britain,but he was a man in the mind of every man in britain at that time.

JAMILLA

IN SRI LANKA,THE MOST FEARED FORCE ARE THE WOMEN IN "TIMIL TIGERS" REBELS.THEY COMMAND SO MUCH RESPECT THAT, EVEN MEN OF THEIR OWN RANKS FEAR THEM.AND THIS PROVES TO YOU THAT WOMEN CAN INDEED BE DEADLY IN COMBAT.JUST AS YOU SAID ,IF THEY ARE FORCED TO AN INTOLERABLE CONDITION.

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jamiila

Sunday, December 31, 2000 - 09:10 am
Galool there is no such thing as jokes.

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devils_love

Sunday, December 31, 2000 - 09:37 am
Galool :

I am yet to figure out why you have to suck up to other African history while you portray the feared and the respected somalian heroe's victories as being somewhat of a trivial achievement. "Ashanti and Zulus " are not known for fighting and downing American choppers which was made with a cutting edge a technology, even Iraqs were not able to shoot it down during the golf war. Ask the Nigerians who were held captive by the somalian militia how those kids do not fear death and then your punk ass might just realise that somalis would rather die than bow to some primitive African tribes or some sophisticated American military who are equiped with a weopons of mass destruction for that matter.


If you look at our culture there is one thing that can not be denied, no matter how much hostility you harbour towards somalis --the bravery of the somali people and the century old pride that our people would die in millions than accept domination from any other nation in the entire world. Even the general greeting of the somalis is "NABAD MIJIRTAA or NABAD MALA SHEEGAY". That oughta tell you that peace was rare in the somalian culture, so please do not tell us WAR for it is in our blood.


Remember that the great warrior SAYID MOHAMED said in a poem ..."nin kaad dili nin kaad dagi nin kaad dabin oqooleyso waa la isku kala daadshaa yuusan kaadidine"...that was the tactics of the Somali war against the British while the Zulus and the ones alike were just running and shouting towards smoking guns...and please watch the movie called ZULU by Micheal Cain to see how Zulus lacked techniques of war. As a result they lost the war and danced for the British army for their victory---An act that is not possible from the fighting spirit of the somalis---.

The American Ambasador in Kenya , in a desparate attempt to warn the invading Americans, said and I qoute "Somalis have either been in war with each other or with others", he added " Beruit will be heaven compared to somalia". This latter statement costed him his job as an Ambasador.


Galool are you related to the minority Bantus in somalia, somehow you harbour some hostility towards somalis.

Another segment of the rich poetry of the British's nightmare...SAYID MOHAMED....just goes to show how mortally prepared the Darvish were "DIIDI MEYNO DHIMASHADA MARBAA DAA'IN(ILAAH) NOO YEERAYE"


Devils_love

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Galool

Sunday, December 31, 2000 - 10:34 am
Devils Love

You got one thing right, There is always war going on somewhere in that God-forsaken place. No wonder really, given the country is heaving with beetle-brains like you. BTW, Somalis are probably the only people in the world who will consider boasting about " war going on all the time" in their country!
Does that say anything to you Devil's Love?

And since you are such a fan (tribally-inspired I suspect)of Mad-Mullah, you may wish to remember that the riverine Bantu tribes offered him sanctuary when he was being pursued by his mainstream Somali enemies. He said, gratefully "Sanyartii saancad bay noqotee Sanweynta allow sabaalee".

Dick

Sorry Dick, another load of tosh you have been told. He never saw Russia or any other place - apart from Southern Arabia. No Mosques were ever silenced, and not a single Imam was shot. It is an absolute and total fabrication.

I am actually (honestly) starting to feel sorry for you. It must be awful realizing that all those little stories you were brought-up to believe were actually no more than, hmm, tall tales. So just for you, here is something that is defenitely true!

SMAH aka Mad-Mullah was an icompetent military leader and a useless politician but, to me at least, he is the greatest Somali Poet that ever lived! His epic laments, moody reflections, even farces are masterpieces of Somali oral literature and probably comparable to anything written by Homer or Ummar-Al-Khayam.

Jamiila

You are one serious girl! Okay, no jokes.

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Tah Hotep

Sunday, December 31, 2000 - 11:12 am
Run ahaanti ma jecli inaan arko halgan soomaalida qabiil qabiil isugu caynaysa ama dadka shisheeyaha ah naga faaiideestaan daciifnimada qaar ka mid ah soomaalida
marka waxaan u maleynayaa in aad NRG (energy) Galisaan meelaha looga baahanyahay oo aad wax ku qabataan si ay uga faaideestaan dadka dhamaan aad ku dhexnooshihiin.

Nabadgalyo

Tah Hotep.

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dick

Sunday, December 31, 2000 - 12:11 pm
galool

Most of your topics are identical.denial denial and denial.Give mad mullah his credit.He was in Nairobi.he was in Sudan and lived among the Nubis.As he mentioned their mercilessness in his poem.He was in Cairo,Alexandria,Istanbul,He visited baku and northwards to Russia,Beirut and most cites in Arabia.He was In India and visited and studed under a reknown Islamic schoolar.he went eastwards to the yam Yams.He traved by land and by sea.The man was out of the country for 27yrs,did your stupid mind told you that he spent all that time in Aden,Yemen.

Just sit down for a while before you post anything more and compare mad Mullah to your insignificant miserable Grand father.And just for once give the man his credit,It doesnt hurt to admit the truth even for few minutes.Somalis are known to deny giving credit to each others and you are a good example.

One more thing i noticed about you is the fact that you are a clanist.The way you insulted the Isaqs is a good example.When i look at what you post, all i see is a sick man binded by clanism.And i dont believe you have any other resson to be against mad Mullah and discredit his achievement,other than clan.

But iam not gonna be as damn as you and insult my fellow country men,solely coz they are of different clan.I will cherish any history made byany Somali regardless of who they are.And mad mullah is not anyway related to me,other than my grandfathers took part in his struggle.And i really thank him for struggling.Coz today my name would have been goerge,james,jack or jeramia.

So stop this mad Blah blah,and come up with something people can understand not an out right denial of even the smallest achievement of Mad Mullah.Give the man his credit.

And for me, my personal history is totally different from you.And i dont have the same kind of hate you were brought up with.sO So you cant judge me.Even if you do ,you will only mislead yourself.

TO ME SOMALI HISTORY IS SACRED.

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Anonymous

Sunday, December 31, 2000 - 01:02 pm
with people like Dick Somalia and Somalis futeure will be alright. But change thtat for goodness sake

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devils_love

Sunday, December 31, 2000 - 01:43 pm
Galool :

It is too bad that you are behind a screen. I wish I saw you in person. I would have settled this dragged-on-matter with my hand (MANO A MANO). Cowards understand only a whip on the ass...sadly I am not close by..or..my AK-47 would have randered you speechless after I empty the 30-bulleted-magazine on your Bantu-praising ass and then put your corpse out for the predators to slice your shattered chest.

Hey that was just a joke...though..I am capabale of doing it if called upon for the duty.

My question is and I am serious about this..why are you against the struggle of the somali people ...I can only conclude one thing. That you are either BANTU who are good for nothing except building houses and cultivating the land for farming....and do you ask yourself why they were subjected to this....after we defeated them we dominated them....and we did them a little favour and gave them a lifeline...through which they agreed....Construction was to become their eternal duty. Or you are the looked-down tribes like "MIDGAAN" who are filled with animosity towards other "NASAB" somalis...LOL just kidding.

To settle your baseless accusation that I am tribally motivated when it comes to the somalian hero SIYAD MOHAMED ....I am not even remotely related to his clan.....so do not even go there....I just admire the guy for his heroism. Unlike you I like and respect my people i.e... SOMALIS including even the Bantus of "WABI SHABEELE" who are good muslims and respect our culture.

As for other somali haters...I have only one thing ...a bullet per person....it is a great tradition of ours to kill the traitors...and...burn them afterwards.

Galool say your prayer ...you are about to inhale a hale of bullets....for you have been found guilty of siding with somalian enemies like the BRITISH....I shall carry out my duty...as you have been sentenced to.....DEATH BY A BULLET.

Beetle-Brained like me...are good for one thing....shooting down the "GALOOLS" like a swam of geese......ha ha...oops ..my hunting rifle is not loaded...perhabs I could use my knife to tear your stomach open...or..rip open your chest to yank out your heart while beating.


That is the dreaded and the merciless Devils_love's happy new year's present for you GALOOL.....Bullet in the mail...look below..there is the bullet.

.
. . .
. .
. .
. .
.....
.....

Seriously answer my question ...why do you hate the dreaded SOMALIS....assuming if you are one...after all....Galool is a name of a tree..not usually found other afrcan countries....except somalia...?

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Soomaali

Monday, January 01, 2001 - 01:17 am
Step aside everyone,


Many Good wishes for very very happy and prosperous new year to my dear friend and brother
Major Mad Mac......

May the key that opens your front door be more than that to you- May it be the key to a brand-new joys and still more dreams to come true wishing you all the best Today and Always.....
Love
Soomaali

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Galool

Monday, January 01, 2001 - 01:36 am
Devils-Pussy

Hand-to-hand? Nah! You will take too long to expire, and as I am a kind and considerate man, I wouldn't want that to happen! Knife? Too messy. Also I don't want your smelly yellow blood on my $2000 shoes! But If i were forced to stab, I will do it once - straight into the thoracic cavity and then turn the knife 90 degrees. Quick and clean and avoids repetition. Not interested in your heart as it is dark and slimy!

If we were to meet, you will find yourself staring down the wrong end of a Soviet-made semi-automatic carbine SKS. Now this is vintage sixties, but has been loved and cherished. You see Devil, this rifle has a pedigree, unlike you! This type of Carbine was used against the Fascists (they are a more intelligent version of yourself!) My carbine has also been customized to fire a slow, flat-nosed slug. It shatters on impact, and sort of dances round your body, while a standard slug may go right through you at close range!

...Now what was your point again?

Dick

Your tenacity is astounding! OK Dick, here we go!
We Somalis are violent SOBS who rule Africa! Sayyid was cool and he was everywhere! We kick ass! Happy now Dick? what else do you want me to say?

Happy New Year!!!

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Dawaco

Monday, January 01, 2001 - 01:57 am
Galool me thinkes you is cool dude

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MAD MAC

Monday, January 01, 2001 - 02:04 am
Jamilla / Galool
Anger has no place in modern warfare. Soldiers are successful on the battlefield when they are well schooled, well conditioned, intelligent and motivated - and of couse well equipped. What really motivates soldiers to fight is their commitment to their fellow soldiers (not for God or King or Country or the honor of the Umpty Umpth Regiment). Being angry simply allows emotion to cloud your judgement and on the modern battlefield that will get you killed quick. A keen analytical moind when given the training and equipment - that's lethal. Modern infantrymen are wearing a flak vest that weighs about 10 pounds. Then they have a rifle - another 6 pounds. Then they have ammunition - another 5-8 pounds. Then there's radios, Bayonet, Night Vision Goggles, Kevlar Helmet, Water. By the time they're done they can be carrying more than 100 pounds of equipment. With all of that they have to be able to run, maneuver and fight. And shoot acurately, which requires regulation of the breathing. Bottom line: Women in general are at a physical disadvantage and in my experience are simply not well suited for this type of combat. They do reaonably well as aviators, mechanics, intelligence specialist, MLRS (Rocket Launcher) crewmen, Patriot Air Defense Crewmen, etc. But as infantrymen the historical record and testing indicates that women infantry units tend to have higher casualties and a lower mission success rate.

Galool
The current gun shy policy is a temporary thing derived from technologial superiority. We will not maintain that superiority forever. The US Army can fight - we have some of the best light infantry in the world. Our soldiers still train realitically and are prepared to fight a tough enemy. When push comes to shove our political leaders will too. The current policy of casualty avoidence is a good thing. It gives our political leadership pause when employing force. And they should have pause.

Devils love
First let's start with the Zulus. Outstanding military tacticians. On the Veldt trying to fight a guerilla war against both the British, the Boers and other local tribes would never have been successful. Since the Zulu only constitute about 13% of South Africas population, they were not in a position to utilize such tactics that allowed the US colonies to gain independence.

As for the SNA phyric victory, of course the Iraqis shot down plenty of aircraft, including UH-60s and other rotary wing aircraft. However, most of these aircraft were flying in areas where there were no Iraqi forces present. They were delivering troops and supplies from point A to point B. The UH-60 is a utlity aircraft, not an attack aircraft. It's utilization in the attack role was a poor utilization. You guys didn't drop a single UH-60.

Dick
The British were never particularly brutal leaders and always allowed local traditions to remain intact. As a matter of policy they had little interest in spreading Christianity. They were interested in making money. Theonly reason they maintained a presence in Somalia was to supply their garrison in Aden with food. Aden was a major British naval station supporting the far east colonies.

Hey Somali, check it out, it'S about to become Lietenant Colonel MAD MAC. Too cool huh? That's 600 bucks a month more baby!!!!! And 300 more in retirement.

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MAD MAC

Monday, January 01, 2001 - 02:06 am
Devils Love
That last line was suppose to say "You guys didn't drop a single AH-1 (Cobra)." And had we had AH-64s in theater, well, things would have been REALLY ugly for the SNA then.

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Jeego

Monday, January 01, 2001 - 06:53 am
Galool

I dont know what Somalis have done to you or your people? One thing I am sure is you hate the Somalis so much you go your way even to distort the History?!!

You said to XOOGSADE

" You know what, it sounded like you were enjoying that racists BS (Gerald Hanley)about some poor and ignorant soldiers fighting whitey's war sixty years ago."

then You said again?

"MM's exploits are not thought in British schools no Films were made about it, there are no Somali artifacts in London Museums and no Victory crosses were won in the battles against the Mullah."

You hatred is so deep it makes you contradict yourself? what are you telling us is if poor BS guy wrote what he saw about Somalis Soldiers is racist and irrelevant in the other hand is very important if the BS teach in their schools and confiscate your wares (artifacts) and display in London, same time present their Victories armies to Crosses?!!

Your argument is baseless and irrational.

You call every Somali Stupid what daes that make You? and who is acting stupid here?!!

Mad Mac

You disappoint me man? I tough you were smarter the then to suck-up Galool who is here to get even with Somalis lol..(Whatever Somalis have done to him)

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Concern sis

Monday, January 01, 2001 - 08:19 am
Looool@devil's

You All Somali Fools!

Do,nt get Confuse this 2 charecters...cuz Mad-mac=Galool
N Da Galool Act as he is a kafir Somali.....I will tel you this Guys when Mad-mac's theory can,t go no where...N somalis to tel him 2 get his Azz out of here cuz he is Yakee looser..Then only then he uses the Name Galool....so he can claim 2 be Somali N stil can pormute Mad-mac's Nonsense...if you guys don,t beleive me.go N Visit Islamic Current Pages....N u will see what I mean.most of the time he argument himself..so ppl would,nt notice him, N when you think about it they R togather every Isue......so Mad-Mac I am faster than you .stop messing around..N loosing our Time!


peace all

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Galool

Monday, January 01, 2001 - 08:35 am
Jeego

I don't hate Somalis. I am one, so is everyone dear to me in this life! I was born in Somalia, educated there and have some fond memories of my country and people. So let us put that Somali- hate accusation to rest.

Please check my arguments calmly without jumping to rash conclusions as some idiots already did.

A summary of my ideas were:

We are Africans, let us not be racist to our fellow Africans. In fact, let us not be Racist full-stop!

Boasting about violence is beyond the idiotic. Violence, not only is a bad thing (the understatement of the millenium!) but it led us to where we are today.

Muhammad Abdulla Hassan was a Nationalist and a religious man. However, I am sick and tired of Somali leaders who murder their own people in order to achieve their political goals. The mad-mullah falls into this category, so I am not a great fan of his. However, I do consider him a giant of Somali oral literature.

If anyone disagrees with me on either of above main themes, I am prepared to listen, debate, provide evidence and learn from others!

How these two simple themes make me a "Somali Hater", I really do not understand!

Happy New Year!

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dick

Monday, January 01, 2001 - 08:57 am
GALOOL

I wish you said what you said from your heart,But all the same ADIOS MUCHACHO!


DEVIL'S LOVE

DONT LET GALOOL OR ANY ONE ELSE, IN FUTURE, FORCE YOU INTO TRANSGRESING MINORITIES IN SOMALIA.I BELIEVE 100% THAT GALOOL IS ONE OF THE SOMALI CLANS,THOUGH HE HAS HIS REOSON TO HATE THEM.MINORITIES TOOK PART IN THE STRUGGLE AGAINST THE INVADERS.AND THE FARMOUS WILD HORSEMAN,FROM LOWER JUBA, BY THE NAME "MUDEY",WHO RODE WITH THE MULLAHS, WAS ONE OF THEM.AND "REER SHABELLE" PUT UP GREAT FIGHT WITH MAD MULLAH WHEN HE WANTED TO TAKE THEM OVER.AND ALOT OF DEADLY PEOMS WERE EXCHANGED IN THE PROCESS.

JEEGO

LOL!


MAD MAC

LT.COL.MAD MAC,I KNOW YOU ARE TRYING TO PUSH ME INTO ANOTHER ENDELESS URGUEMENT,BUT FOR THE SAKE OF IT LET ME SAY FEW WORDS.

Of all the invaders and all the colonisers,I believe the Brittish were the most resonable and caused least damage to thier captives.But that dont give them a clean bill of conduct.They have thier down fall too in history.And are respossible for alot of races to disapear from the face of earth,directly or indirectly.due to their world domination in the past few hundred years.

The Indians of America are close to extinction,the Aborigines of Australia the same.And they left behind a pollital curse in Africa,which kills people by the millions each year.The Somalis say"THE LOCUST LEFT,BUT IT LEFT BEHIND IT EGGS".

When the Brittish landed in Somalia,they had no respect for the people,and they behave as they wished.To them a black person was inferior,and a colonial wasnt any different from any other colonial.Alot of people made that mistake in somalia,and paid dear price.

You are wrong when you said that the brittish werent brutal in Somalia.They were,and only changed when the Mullah uprissed.For fear of the popular support the mullah was getting at the time.There was a major competetion between the mullah and the brittish of who would win the heart of the people.And the brittish succeeded in that,by not being as Brutal as the Mullah.But i believe they would have been as Brutal as him,if he wasnt in the picture,as they displayed at the beggining.I can imagine what would have happened if the mullah wasnt there,and the people uprised against the brittish.First of all the Brittish would have good reason to be brutal at that time.They were stationed in Aden,yemen in order to protect their far east trade.And somalia was exactly oposite of yemen,at that narrow red sea channel.Their arch-enemy the French,had Interest in the land too.And there was no way they would let the french take over the land and jeopadise their control over the trading root,even if that means Exterminating every one in Somalialand.
Yemen was a barren desert,and Somalia sustained the brittish garisons there.So loosing Somalia ment loosing yemen,and lossing yemen ment, loosing the far east trade to the french.It was a catastrophy waiting to happen,but thanks God it never happened.And thanks to the appearence of Mad Mullah for so speaking.For he saved the lifes of millions of people and the existance of the somali nation.If war broke out at the red sea,the economy of the Europeans,would have collapsed,forcing supply ships going round the "cape of Good hope",and force the Europeans to eat filth.As they did during the medeaval time when the Muslim forces blocked their way to the east.And controlled what they get or not get.Time is like chain reaction,it never stops.One Empire raises another falls.Look what happened to the formidable Soviets.And America is not exceptional.
Though white races are clever enough,not to let such thing happen to them.They came a long way to achieve their pressent supremacy over all other races.But not without blood shade,endless wars and anarchy,extermination of others,slavery,genocide, treachary,misleading and mis educating others.Division and distruction of historical facts, colonisation and looting of resources of other nations, and at the same time
up dating themselfs with one form of cuting age technology to another in order to stay supreme.But at the same time if you look at the bright side,white people transformed the world,from close to stone age, to a highly technological space age world.I doubt if other races,given the opportunity would have done the same.I dont know what this world would be in a hundred years to come,but i hope for the best,and i hope mankind turns thier guns on the universe instead of turning it on themself.Happy new year to all of you.

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Ice-Man

Monday, January 01, 2001 - 09:40 am
Galool Faggot.

Unlike your Grandfather, The Dervishes and Mohammed Abdule hassan fought and die on the principle of truth justice and freedom for our country. even White conservative in the house of commons in 1913 admitted their struggle,
Distinguished nationalist once described the Mullah and dervishes as "Brave men striving to be free"
You are Substanceless gadfly Faggot.

Concern sis.... you are Absolutely right Mad-Mac and "Fag Galool" are one person who is mentally Impaired,
I don't know why he thinks being a Christian and Imposter as An American is something to be proud of it. Next time debate as Chines"No More Yankee ••••" you will reach the Jupiter

Don't open your stinky mouth.

Later

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MAD MAC

Monday, January 01, 2001 - 09:57 am
Ice Man
Alas, Concerned Sis is incorrect, Galool and I are not the same individual. Your lack of intellect and respect for others opinions comes through loud and clear. I don't see how you could express yourself with less intelligence, but keep on working on it.

Dick
I think you exagerate the impact the loss of Somaliland would have had on the British Empire. It would have been inconvenient. It would not have led the the total loss of all the colonies.

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Xoogsade

Monday, January 01, 2001 - 10:02 am
Jeego:

Well-spotted. Very acute analyst, you are, lol.

Excellent debate, long may it continue. Now I have to go watch Scum Utd get slaughtered hopefully.

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Galool

Monday, January 01, 2001 - 01:11 pm
Monkey-Vomit (aka Ice-man)

You can insult me as much as you want and call me all the names in the world, but unless you apologize to that gent and his family, I will hound you through the net and show everybody what a cock-sucking, cunt-licking, slime-trailing peanut-brain slug you are!

So apologize or be shunned, you plague-invested, Aids-carrying, mother-fuking closet-queen! Apologize or I will hound you.

All

Sorry guys, but this slime-ball has broken a sacred rule in the Net. He actually mentioned the name of what I believe to be a real person in here, and claimed it was me. He also insulted the man, his wife and daughter!

So I request from everyone here, even those who hate me, not to respond to this moron's contributions, not to dignify him with answers until and unless he apologizes!
Search your conscience as a human being and see how you will feel if some brainless punk insulted you and your whole family on Cyberspace for ABSOLUTELY NO REASON!
Thanks.
PS: Can someone be kind enough to tell me how to copy this message on other pages?

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Galool

Monday, January 01, 2001 - 01:33 pm
Concerned Sis

Sis what is "pormute"? Pardon me, this is a foreign language to all of us, and we are bound to make mistakes in it, but to invent your own vocabulary is truly remarkable!

Sis, I have seen you use this word so many times, and I am utterly and completely fascinated by it,
so please enlighten me before I go bananas!

oh! and Sis, I AM Mad-Mac! Happy? (sorry Mad-Mac)

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Ice-Man

Monday, January 01, 2001 - 02:19 pm
gALOOL fAGGOT DICK SUCKER

you are brainless mother fucker. Galool I will make sure to chase you Around and tell everyone what An Alcoholic you are, every where you go mother Fucker. Your information will be known every creature who visit here.Don't pretend who you are not. Run Run Swine


Later

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Xoogsade

Monday, January 01, 2001 - 06:27 pm
Why is Galool squealing like a stuck pig. Iceman what have you done, did you find out something about him? So far we know that he is an alcoholic, that he is a white man's ass-licker what with his whole face smeared with shitt. Now you found out smothing extra? Please share.

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Poisonous.

Monday, January 01, 2001 - 06:30 pm
Hello. Has Galool gone bonkers? Alternatively, perhaps he has given up on his always-impossible task to convert Somalis into Christianity?
These are a few of what Galool has been doing while claiming to be Somali:
• Calling Somalia ‹‹that God-forsaken place››
• Somalis enjoy all that stupid patronising stuff
• Somalis created famine through sheer idiocy.
• Somalis did not resist European colonisation any more vigorously than any other African nation
• Somalis were such pussycats that even the shoe-less arabs from Oman ruled whole chunks of Southern Somalia for 80 years and eventually sold it to the Italians
• There never was a "Somali civilization"
• Somalis are still right at the bottom of the heap
• I can't think of anything that Somalis ever did or had which Somalis should be proud of.
• Somalis are all capable of committing the most atrocious and barbaric acts including the deliberate murder of women and children, torture and mutilation
• You see people call you "Proud" when they can't find any really useful adjectives that apply to you.
• British consider Somalis as ‘$hit-for-brains’
• Sayyid Mahamad lost every single battle during the
whole of his anti-colonial campaign.
• Somali Derwishes never succesfully "liberated" a single hamlet from British colonial rule
• there are no Somali artifacts in London's Museums (this because the British did not steal anything from Somalia, I wonder?)
Is it possible for one to ridicule and rubbish his ‘own’ kind at every turn, disparage and belittle his ppl at every opportunity?

Secondly He wrote:
•To Devil: ‹‹Somalia is heaving with beetle-brains like you››
•to Dick: ‹‹You obviously have the IQ of a mentally-handicapped cockroach››
•to Xoogsade: ‹‹ You need all the torches you can since all the lights are certainly out in your brain››
•And to Xoogsade again: ‹‹ Dick shares his views with millions of other simpletons (Somalis) up and down Somalia››
•To Ice-Man: ‹‹cock-sucking, cunt-licking, slime-trailing peanut-brain slug you are!››

In spite of all these, Galool has the audacity to demand an apology from Ice. Plus, he says ‹‹I request from everyone here (the same Somalis he has been insulting), not to respond to this moron's (Ice-man’s) contributions›› Goodness me! This man’s arrogance is truly astounding. If anyone is a moron, Galool is the only one here. He is the one who should be avoided like plague. Let this guy struggle with the massive chip he carries on his shoulder.

Poison.

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MAD MAC

Monday, January 01, 2001 - 10:37 pm
During the course of this argument I was reminded of something I read by P.J. O'Rourke. Keep in mind I'm quoting fro memory here, so it's not 100%. Here it goes:


"....The Mad Mullah was unimpressed. He wrote a letter to the British Commissioner at Berbera. 'You have aligned with all the wastrels of the world because you are weak. This alliance of yours, with Seiks and Bunyans and Moors and Egyptians and Americans and Nubians and Serbs and Arabs and Indians and Russians. We stand on our own, independent and free. But because you are weak, you must solicit, as does a prostitute.' Seventy Five years before the fact, Sayid Mohammed Abdullah Hassan was able to accurratley predict the size, composition and moral stature of todays UN.

Down by one of the local Mosques I saw a Somali handing out leaflets depicting two mounted men mounted on a horse. One had a shield with the star of David on it. Two men mounted tandem on a horse was a sign of the Knights of the Templars, an ancient religious order that fought in the crusades. Sense may be short in these parts, but memories are long."

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Ice-Man

Tuesday, January 02, 2001 - 12:42 am
To.Xoogsadse

I know his kids "Galool" and where he lives he is really disgrace to be Somalia and if you, guys need further information I will be more than happy to tell you. that's why he is begging everyone not to believe what I posted about him, I know his son in law. that's how I found out the name he debates here Galool"

Galool Faggot you are Finish Catholic beggar.

Later

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Ice-Man

Tuesday, January 02, 2001 - 12:59 am
To. Poisonous


We really don't agree that much and its healthy way to disagree but you nailed it this time, Thanks poisonous I don't owe him an Apology. Give me few days either he will change his attitude toward Somalis or he will disappear on net. the worst scenario he will do is change his name and Debate like a Girl or Anonymous.

Later

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anonymous

Tuesday, January 02, 2001 - 01:48 am
lol...monkey vomet!!! still laughing man! this dudez' crazy man!!!

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SmArTSis

Tuesday, January 02, 2001 - 05:05 am
I'm not a constant visitor to this site and i dont waste my time readin what flea-brained somalis have to say but i couldn't help going thru this posting. I must admit we do have a few smart people around but one thing ya all keep shouting is that somalis are BRAVE.......OH plzzzzz!!!!! What we need is not some ignorant morons willing to die 4 silly causes but intelligent, smart people who are willing to bring about some change....

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dick

Thursday, January 04, 2001 - 12:27 pm
MAD MAC

Finally you acknowledged and gave some credit to Mad Mullah. Mad Mullah was futuristic and far away from his time and people.He predicted alot about the far and near future.He also predicted when mankind would travel to the stars and explore the universe.I guess we havent reached that stage yet,but iam sure we will one day.
Mad mullah travelled alot and learned alot ,and he knew who is who in the world around him.But unfortunately at that time,people in somalia were far behind him in terms of knowledge.He had to lower himself to their level in order to put some sense into them and show them ,where he wanna them to head.It was like when prophet mohamed{P.B.U.H} was preaching Islam,and he had to speak in such a way that would make the ignorant tribes of Arabia,Understand the true meaning of the holy Quraan .The Quraan was far ahead of its time and still is. Thats why the Arabian tribes thought it to be a fabricated magic .And it so happened that the people of today understands the Quraan more than the people of the past as the Quraan and the science agree in every field of knoweledge. And still people of tomorrow would understand it even better ,as science advances and agree more with the Quraan. The Quraan mentioned the Interstelllars, Speed of light, gravitational force, rotation of earth and moon around the sun, the great invisible walls of the oceans, Many more and the recently discovered black hole in space, which Allah said in the holy Quraan, "I SWEAR BY THE PLACE WHERE ALL STARS END". Astro physicians observed that everything in the Universe is speeding towards the "BLACK HOLE".

Iam telling you this in order you and others, to see the picture, in the mind of Mad Mullah, and how it differed from those around him. Out of frustration he embarked into a violent journey, which caused his down fall. At a time of great difficulties and uncertain future, A young man came to Mad mullah and said, "LET US SEEK HELP FROM OUR ARAB MUSLIM BROTHERS". Mad mullah replied in a poetic manner "MY SON STOP WHINNING, THE ARABS ARE WOMEN".

Mad Mullah never enjoyed a fair judgement from the Somalis or the Brittish. His history suffered a centuary of smear campain and character asassination and denial of his achievement, orchastrated by the somalis and the Brittish alike. Just like what Galool is perpertrating at the begining of this new Centuary.

Mad Mullah died peacefully in his bed,at Imey,still unleashing poetic war on the Brittish.He died stuborn,and never Bowed and never accepted defeat.He reminds me of a man whose son, served under him,,and who was equally as stuborn.His name was "BULXAN GELLE".He was a brother of my great,great grand father. He fall in love with an extremely beautiful girl.His father "GELLE JAMAC" adviced him not to go for her,coz her family were greedy,and they will put him in an impossible situation.. Gelle Jammac was the famous hero who killed “JENI CAD” The white legged,most terrifying lion,in the history fo Somalia.Which terorised the nation for a decade.And divided the nation and stopped the movement of people from different regions. Bulxan was stuborn and he will do whatever he puts into his mind.He refused the words of his father and asked the family for the girl.He gave them whatever they asked for.The number of camels exceeded 500 and unidentified numbers of horses.Untill in the end he had nothing left for him to give away.Finally they asked for the impossible.They asked him to bring a famous horse which belong to another clan.The other clan found out,and they put 200 armed men to gaurd the horse round the clock,coz they had no doubt that Bulxan would come for it.And he did.With the help of his cousin sister, married to the clan,he was able to steal the horse,right at the nose of the 200 gaurds,and he uttered this words while speeding away ,

"LET THE MOUNTAINS CRUMBLE, LET THE DOOMSDAY FALL, AND LET NO FAMILY REMAIN IN THE FACE OF EARTH, BUT I WILL NEVER REGREAT MY ACTION".

Though Bulxan didnt regreat, alot blood were shade between the clans and alot of men layed dead, because of the horse..Bulxan was lucky twice.He wasnt among the dead and finaly, he got married to the girl.
Bulxan Gelle died of old age at the beginning of MAD MULLAH’S campain.
I guese this is the end of my debate,and so let me say thank you to the unknown person,who said few good things about me.

TO ANON,

Thank you very much and Allah bless you..

And to the rest of you, till some other time, happy new Millennium.

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devils_love

Thursday, January 04, 2001 - 01:44 pm
Galool :

If you thought that my swearings and threats were of any relevance...you are mistaken.

They were nothing more than a stunt gun...designed to hit couple of your nerves..so that they will stimulate or wake up the SOMALI in ya..and you will fight back as one.


In all honesty.. I am little disappointed with your views towards your own people..What is even more troubling is the fact that you have all the praise and admiration for other non-somalian nations. This I think is an under-estimation of unparallel dimension.

Make no mistake about it..I am not suggesting that you glorify or glamourize SOMALIS..but what I am merely suggesting is that you at least give them a fair game when comparing with other nationalities..I suppose that oughta be the resposiblity of any fair referee.


Do you recall during the ill-fated DESERT STORM operation led by the US. Every US Ally participated....with the exception of Britian which is rumoured to be the biggest ally of all to the US. Even France which does not have this rosy relationship with the STATES participated. The question is why Britian did not participate..Well according to a source close to the British authorities was qouted as saying that Britian is neither interested nor is it willing to lose its' soldiers to some ragtag militia. Clearly Britian has in depth knowlegde of the somalis given the wary history they had with these nomad people that you(Galool) and I originated from.


I am not over-doing this just in case you thought I was one....I am only stating facts as they are vital to this prolonged debate.


Devils_love

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Galool

Thursday, January 04, 2001 - 01:48 pm
Xoogsade

I got you and you know it! It is almost sad to see you reduced playing the Cheerleader to little bigots like Monkey-vomit! I may be a "Somali Hater" as the idiots said, but at least I am a Somali. You on the other hand, is a Somalilander, and therefore a Traitor, not only in the Somali Constitution, but in almost any National code I can think of. And as you may be aware, this offence carries a mandatory Death Penalty in our Penal system. But hope is at hand! As one of the few Somalis who disagree with the Death Penalty, I am a potential friend of yours! I therefore strongly suggest you be nice to me from now on- in fact you better start licking my boots as I may save your life one day!

Monkey-vomit

Don't be so encouraged by the support of the gang here. I will continue to hound you all the way to Bur Karole where you were shat, you son of a syphilitic old goat! Apologize to the gent and his family and I will talk to you again like a human being.

Poisonous

Thanks for summarising my views. You may add to your list that Somalis are generally cowardly, bullying, unjust, unfair, idiotic, moronic, uncivilized and beneath contempt!(and yeah, of course I am the exception that proves the rule!) I will give you an example. I said that Monkey should be chastized for naming a real person on the net. Any other Race - from the Aborigines to Eskimos would have said to monkey, "hey that is not fair! insult Galool but don't bring your family's feuds into the net by naming people". Not so Somalis. And another thing. You missed to note that I only insulted people who insulted me first.

PS: Anyone who wants to know what upset me can go to Islam, Fahamka Islamka, then Question.. and see how you feel.

Dick

I respect your rather innocent honesty and decency. I apologize for my earlier insults, but I was only responding to your provocation. I still do believe there is nothing to be gained by hanging on to a glorious past, real or imagined. I appreciated your answer to Devils Love about minorities. We can debate about the Sayyid's contribution to the nation if you wish. Let us shake hands and debate! how about that?

Mad-Mac
What was all that reminiscing and the Sayyid single-handedly establishing the UN about? In fact one of the few redeeming features Somalis have is our short memory. We are a deeply forgiving and forgetting race. I think you are wrongly lumping us with the people of the Middle-east. Somalis, like other Africans, forget history both recent and old, good or bad. Many of the senior people in our beloved DKMG are senior members of the Siyad Barre regime, which was hated by most Somalis. The Prime Minister is a signatory to the secession of Somaliland, but is now welcomed by somalis as a nationalist and accept without question his utterances of the "indivisibility" of Somalia. Long memories indeed!

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TLG

Thursday, January 04, 2001 - 08:48 pm
To all,
I'm a "silent" participant of this page. I must admit Dick delivered the case in a scholarly manner here. Madmac, is supprisingly objectional on this side of the forums. What happened to that objectionality when it comes to the "Islam" folder MM?
Dick, you are the best. Keep the knowledge coming, some of us are learning our history for the first time. Thanks.

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devils_love

Thursday, January 04, 2001 - 08:56 pm
Correction...I meant RESTORE HOPE...not DESERT STORM.....

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MAD MAC

Friday, January 05, 2001 - 12:28 am
TLG
I'm just having a little fun here. None of this is serious argument, not from me. I coulnd't care less whether or not the Mad Mullah was a psychopath or the second coming of Christ.

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Somali-Yankee

Friday, January 05, 2001 - 02:29 am
i personally think the Mad Mullah was visionary-something somalis back than lacked...he dreamed of somali statehood......n he made a great deal of contribution to da somali liteurute.....i admire him for his principals however i despise him for what he did to many innocent somalis in which my own family are part of.....my grandfather and his two sisters were sole survivors of his brutal campaigns....the rest of my granddather's family were savagely murdured..iam sure many other somalis met da same faith.

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Concern sis

Friday, January 05, 2001 - 03:10 am
LooooooL@Galool.......go banans!!!!!!


Listen to you,I know all the way that You are a (Mad-mac) but what really surprise me that.....how came every one else don,t know that? oh! they must all know you but, they don,t want waste their time for telling you who you really are....cuz,since you are confuze fella, why should they care to remind you? you see but I guess I am bit more Kind than the rest........so I am telling you again stop that Multipersonality of yours!!!!!! cuz......you may fool some ppl some of the time, or you may fool most ppl some of the time........but u never can fool most of ppl most of the time!!!!!! u wako!


Oh! N the word pormute, I meant pormote......lol big deal! it is not my language so who cares if I make spelling mistake? I don,t.....it is u to figure out what I meant!!!!!lol.........byeeeee

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Galool

Friday, January 05, 2001 - 05:55 am
Devils-love

I don't hate my people or my country. I objected to the bigotry shown by people here towards other Africans, which is unacceptable. Moreover, there is nothing wrong with opening a debate about our past and present, and looking at our history in an objective manner. It is a sign of a grown-up society that realistically assesses its achievements and highlights its short-comings.

There is no point in lying to ourselves and living in a cloud-cuckoo land. A lot people here were upset by my criticism of Sayyid. I think that is unfair and short-sighted. I conceded that he was a Nationalist and a great poet, but his military achievements are over-stated. More importantly, he victimized his own people. He knew what he wanted to achieve, but went about it in the wrong way. I am not alone in this. Whole sections of Northern Somalis consider him nothing but a vicious murderer. My feeling here is that those who unequivocally support him are doing so because of Clanist basis. Dick admitted as much, although I am beginning to respect him more and more. Many Southern people may also consider him a hero because he was so distant from them and the war and the wholesle murder was not taking place in their patch.

So lets debate without name-calling and threats shall we?

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MAD MAC

Friday, January 05, 2001 - 06:06 am
Somali-Yankee
Since Somali wasn't a written language until 1972 what language did he write his "literature" in??

Concerned Sis
What the hell are you talking about????

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QJ

Friday, January 05, 2001 - 06:26 am
Oral literature was the key point of communicating among somalis, spclly sayid maxamed and his darvish.
Let me remind you that somali language used to be written in arabic alphabet format.( dates back B.C)
Some of you might be little bit surprised to learn that somalis had written script language back in those early days called CUSMANIA.

Furthermore, somalis where the victim of historic theft.

I will hit you more next time...till then peace I will ask more my grandpa in dixon


Dixon Kid.

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QJ

Friday, January 05, 2001 - 06:29 am
I forget to add that it was the recent time when they started to write Latin alpha and that does not mean somalis had no written history before 1972.

peace.
the kid

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devils_love.

Friday, January 05, 2001 - 07:57 am
Galool :

My fellow countrymen had one weakness...and the British whose policy was based on a divide and rule...took advantage of it..we value tribalism more than nationalism..Somalis were divided and turned against each other by the British..some were even soldiers for the colonial British...this has brought about that the SAYID and his dervishs defend their lives from their own people....there are mounting evidences that an innumerable attempts to assassinate the MULLAH were made by the people who later found themselves inflicted heavy damage by the Dervish.

Some might argue that the MULLAH was tribally motivated..but as the history tells us...the MULLAH did not even spare his own clan..as matter of fact...some will argue that he inflicted the heaviest damage of all on them.

The British ..perhaps in their wildest blunder...tried to bribe the MULLAH so that he would abandon all that was important to him i.e ..his country , his people , his religion....but the MULLAH being a man of a strong convictions declined the deal....I know ask you ...how many somalis would have declined this sweet deal...


Finally I would like to clarify one thing...I am not related to the MULLAH...not even share the big clan with him...but I challenge those who accuse him of being clanist. Secondly as the saying goes "There is no garden without its weeds" ...Well the MULLAH did probably make some mistakes.....under what motivation did he make those....I firmly believe...to free somalia from the colonial British...it is no secret that there were paid collaborators who were using their clans to fight against the Dervish....but the Dervishs who were operating under the theory that says .."THE MORE YOU SWEAT IN PEACE THE LESS YOU BLEED IN WAR"...did their home work and took care the somalian collaborators before they engage war against the British.


Noone ever defeated SOMALIA united....but sadly they did so...SOMALIA divided.....after all why do I care if all my clan perished.....if my nation is under colony....think about it...and remember those who fought....on behalf of our country...


Somali_Yankee :
First let me say welcome dear friend...secondly It is one thing to despise the man for may be killing close relatives.....but it is another to consider what was under stake...the whole existence of you and me....the SOMALIA that we were all born free....Nothing comes without price tag...and of course....there were gonna be casaulties...but the truth remains.....that Dervishs enemy were not only the British..but there were also Somalis..who were under the pay role of the ....Colonail Britain...


devils Love.

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SomeGirl

Friday, January 05, 2001 - 08:03 am
DEvil

The Drvish was as Devil and Sick man, who is really Power Hungary...Infact I can call him a GAAL, why? Becouse he Kills so many Muslim Children, not he only Kills them he eat their Liver! He was Ignorent Triblist MOtherfucker, which Ever Exist on the Erath! so pis OFF!!!

Somali Yankee


I Feel you!!!!!!

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rasheed

Friday, January 05, 2001 - 08:26 am
a great man has said;
the worst kind of hate is self hatered,you will never hear somalian history with colonization
because the British had problem controlling Somalis
and the Muslims in India which present day Pakistan and Kashmir.
Go and asked your elderly about somaliland history
and they will tell you; 1) the somaliland tribes had an agreement with the British government that when a British lady was 7 months pregnant she had to leave the country to
give birth to her child. so, we wouldn't have the
same problem South Africans had with the dutch
2)The British used to pay taxes to certain tribes
in somaliland.
and that was unheard of when the colonizer is being
told what to do by the very people he's suppose to be colonizing.
so, this a little food for your thought.

To madmac:
I bet you guys thought Somalia will be another
Grenada,panama,Iraq
guess things doesn't always turn out to be the way
suppose to sorry for the rude awakening buddy
by the way the delta force thought they did a good gob rescuing those stranded Americans and got
the whole credit for that when the Somalis 's
are the one who should be awarded for that because
they chose not to fire on them inthe Mogadishu mile other wise the casualties would have been higher than 19 I know u know it and the Delta force knows it.

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devils_love.

Friday, January 05, 2001 - 08:29 am
SomeGirl :

I am very moved to see you put up a fight like that....

I am afraid I can't depate with ya...unless otherwise you rid yourself off this hate...


Perhaps...U spent too much time with your Granpa ..whose ( I am sorry to say this) view of somalia was that of his CLAN becoming the leader or the rulers of SOMALIA.

Don't you think that MULLAH dreamt big..beyond tribalism....and don't you know he had the balls to fight against the Colony....when no other somali would even dare to say anything against them....

Please read the history...forget about this clan legacy....it has no relevance..and by the way....there is a penal code system...which says..traitors....should be excuted....


devils Love

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Anonymous

Friday, January 05, 2001 - 09:09 am
To all my fellow Somalis,

Can anyone guide a history lover to where she can find good websites regarding somali history.

Thanks in advance.

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devils_love.

Friday, January 05, 2001 - 09:22 am
Rasheed :

Unlike the south africans ..Somaliland people fought against the occupiers..i.e..British.....but to suggest that there was some kind of treaty between the somaliland tribes and the occupying British was ludicrous and Preposterous to say the least...The British were not there by treaty but they were there by force....

There was this poem tought at grade seven back home...though I do not recall in it's entirety...the poem is reflection of what the ruthless British were doing to the decent and noble people of somaliland....I remember a little segment of it.....and it went like this..."NINKII AWOOWGEEY ADOONSADEY NINKII AABAHAY INDHAHA TIRAY NINKII ANIGA IIBSADAY..HADAAN OGA HAY OON KA AARSAN KAREEYN ..AAN OOYEE ALBAABKA II SOO XIRA." and he went on to say "ASAGOO EGLAND JOOGUU I IIB SADOO...."..I do not remember the rest but you can find it if look for it.....and the poet was from northern somalia....I am sure he was sick of the treatment of the British to his own people....so please do not be fooled.....the British do not give a rat's ass about some tribal treaty they signed..if any....it was a trick to settle the land.....


I think you will agree that poet gave a picture that is totally contradictory to what you depicted the relationship between the British and the Somaliland tribes were....

devils Love

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Anonymous

Friday, January 05, 2001 - 10:09 am
Devil's love,
You said"My fellow countrymen had one weakness...and the British whose policy was based on a
divide and rule...took advantage of it..we value tribalism more than nationalism..Somalis
were divided and turned against each other by the British.".

Haha! dude somalis have never for an extended period of time been a completely united nation,but instead have always been waring tribes.Every now and then we may have united to fight europeans or xabeshas,but after all is said and done,it's always this somali tribe against that somali tribe.ALWAYS ALWAYS.Why because there is something in the somali character that makes every fucking man want to be his own king.Coheshion is impossible with such a mindset.

Look at how the amxaras of ethiopia ruled over dozens of tribes in their country for so long.Even today they are only 5 million strong,but they're united.That's the difference between them and us.

You see, the british were master tacticiians,who knew exactly what buttons to press,to get what they wanted.The key to their dominance was that they exploited the weaknesses of the countries they envaded.They were keen to send missionaires to gather information about every tribe,race,ethnicity you could imagine.Where they found division,they were sure to exploit.WE CAN'T BLAME THE BRITSIH FOR DIVIDING SOMALIS,WE WERE DIVIDED LONG BEFORE THEY CAME.

Every somali man is his own sultan,
anon lady

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Anonymous

Friday, January 05, 2001 - 10:22 am
Devils Love

What resheed said is True...so talk about your south and Italian..what did they did to u? Sad? Sad? Sad?

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Somali-Yankee

Friday, January 05, 2001 - 12:31 pm
SomeGirl--thankx
Mad Mac.....i meant somalia's oral literature
Devil's Love......Wazzup bro.....i don't hate the guy my freind but nothing justifies the innocent lives he took.....n my relatives were on nobody's pay-roll.....we could be everything else but certainly not a sell out..... like i said his intentions might have been noble....but murder is always murder....n plz bro refrain yourself from despising or defaming somali minoraties....they were productive citizens and they certainly took part in somali's struggle for freedom....i understand what we are up agianst today....and it is unfortunate the "generation in Exile " didn't made sacrifices to reclaim somalia not just from our enemies but those ruthless warlods.....we lack is a credible leader....we certainly won't go extinct....we will survive

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DICK

Friday, January 05, 2001 - 02:03 pm
Iam very impressed at the way the debate is shaping-up.Iam begining to learn something i didnt know here and there.Iam sure alot of teenagers who visit the forums would have some knowledge about their motherland.Keep it up.

GALOOL

HEY BUDDY WHASUUUUP.HANDS WELL SHAKEN.NO HEART FEELINGS.I RUN OUT OF WORDS,BUT IAM SURE THERE IS ALOT OF PEOPLE HERE WHO WOULD KEEP YOU BUSY.

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DICK

Friday, January 05, 2001 - 02:16 pm
GALOOL

ONE MORE THING.I never admitted to be a clanist.and i dont believe in it.And it dont mean nothing to me,other than its historical importance.Knowing my history dont make me a clanist.I dream one day to see a mighty great somali nation commanding respect all over the universe.

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DICK

Friday, January 05, 2001 - 02:42 pm
TLG

THANK YOU.IAM DONE WITH MAD MULLAH,BUT I WILL BE HAPPY TO GIVE MY OPINION ON OTHER FIELDS OF SOMALI HISTORY.WELL THERE ONE GUY IN SOMALI HISTORY WHO REALLY MAKES ME LOUGH EVERY TIME I HEAR PEOPLE TELL HIS STORY.AND THAT IS NO OTHER THAN "EGAL SHIDAAD".THE GUY WAS REALLY COMICALLY WICKED.THOSE PEOPLE WHO LIVED IN HIS TIME SURE HAD ALL THE ENTERTAIMENT THEY NEEDED.HE IS KNOWN TO BE THE MOST COWARDIEST MAN IN SOMALI HISTORY.BUT WHEN I LOOK DEEPER I DONT SEE A COWARD,BUT A CLEVER MAN WHO WANNA LEAVE HISTORY BEHIND.I HAVE BEEN LOUGHING FOR AN HOUR MOMENT AGO WHEN A FRIEND OF MINE SAID FEW STORIES ABOUT HIM. HE WAS THE "MR.BEAN" OF ANCIENT SOMALIA.I DONT KNOW IF OTHERS SEE IT THAT WAY.

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Rasheed

Friday, January 05, 2001 - 02:54 pm
to devil's love
it's true when you said that they were there by force not treaty ,but once they got there they knew the Somalis are not your every day colony
so, they had to make adjustments to the situations
and that how the treaty came about.so therefore
the British colonization to somaliland wasn't your
average boss and server kind of procedure,
it was different kind of colonization that the British had to accommodate them and give them special treatment;that for example the British couldn't intervene with their religion values, their culture, their everyday life.
and as far as the poem is concern do u think you would be happy if someone occupy your house regardless of how much freedom or choices they give u at the end of the day your house is being
occupied plain &simple.
so, please don't under estimate the inelegance,self respect, deep pride within, knowledge, religious values, and the bravely that
our ancestors had.
because I don't never did never will.

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Fellow

Saturday, January 06, 2001 - 03:49 pm
Galool & Devils Love:

I have been watching what was being posted here for quite a while. Several different discussed issues such as poetry, music (songs), jokes and politics were harmless in a sense that everybody who reads them would not be appalled or feel offended.

The topic or issue that caught my attention or at least forced me to post this (which by the way I don't like) is one that related to non of the above mentioned topics, but not even any other topic that I can think of. The only thing that I
can say about it is that it was a bit of bogus argument, insult, and violent.
It is started by a chap by the name of Galool. There were some truth in some of his argument though very exaggerated. Most of his argument was from his pocket and had no base or solid evidence to support it what so ever. Please believe me when I say, "I am not trying to pick him on". Galool got not only people who were commenting about his argument, but a lot of attention, which I suspect was his initial intention in the first place as well. First round of comments were bit okay, but from second onward is where things got out of hand. Some people started using insult and violent derogatory words, and I would be
remiss if I don't mention one of Devils' essays, which I thought was a movie script version of "Dracula". That was out of line and too graphic and one's intelligence should be challenged by not thinking that he is one of warlord's die-hard supporters.

One should remember any one who has an access to the Internet can access
anything posted here, and before anyone posts anything they should ask themselves the following questions.
1. Is it worth posting?
2. Is the content of assay contains something that offends my community one way or the other?
3. Would other uninvited intruders take wrong picture form my community just by reading this? etc.
It is just sad if you don't care or don't like your community. The fact is.. regardless of what you think or how you act you are what ever you say your community is, and that is just a reality you can't escape from.

I would conclude this by giving some suggestions to some individuals. Galool, I have to admit that you are very creative because a creative mind could only come up with such exaggerated lie. If your intention was to get attention as I have
already mentioned.. congratulations..you have succeeded, but that does not make a better person, but rather worse. You have created a scenario which most people who commented about it were disgrace to our community even though most of them thought they were defending or doing something which was best interest of the
community. I strongly suggest.. you use your creativity to other areas.
Devils Love, I have read a lot of articles you have written about poetry, music and jokes. Most of them were pretty good and entertaining. You carefully use or select seductive words, and get response from a lot of girls as you hoped for. I also strongly suggest you to remain in this particular area, which you are good at..as your carefully chosen name indicates. Don't even think about going other areas because you simply suck (please mind the derogatory word).

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devils Love

Saturday, January 06, 2001 - 11:41 pm
Fellow :

Ha Ha...I can't help but burst into laugh...however if you thought my take on Galool was some kind of a movie version of "Dracula"...what do you suppose yours will be.....ever heard of MANGETTA VIVI (Eating alive) and INFERNO DERITO(Direct Hell ) ...both movies contain scenes of cannibalism.....Well I have to combine the scripts of these two horror movies...to see how graphic you would think this time I was...taking on your smart ass...No wonder Holywood is cashing in...with rise of HORROR movies...

I was brought up to take my revenge....and in fact I do believe ...revenge is sweet...so stay tunned.....I am prepared to do this....before GALOOL..hits you with his....


With regards to.....poetry , jokes and sensitive stuff you so openly praised my role ...let me tell you that.....I was only pursuing GOLDEN GLOBE AWARD for those postings...but I will only settle for the ACADEMY AWARD(OSCAR)...with my future pursuit of horror ones

The title of my upcoming movie which will be based on above-mentioned movies..is "THE EDIBLE FELLOW"


"The Edible Fellow"......coming soon ....stay tunned....as it is due to be released in selected forumss only.....


Viewer discretion adviced ...as it may contain..scenes of man-eating humans and cannibalism....


Devils Love.

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MAD MAC

Sunday, January 07, 2001 - 02:17 am
QJ
I have been studying Somali history and culture for 7 years and that's the first time I heard that. I must say, however, that it sounds wholly believable.

Rasheed
Every deployment is different. Don't get too full or yourself. The SNA was the big tough organization you make it out to be. We had one tough night. Our political leaders quit. If MAD MAC had been in charge, there wouldn't be an SNA today because they would all be dead. We could have killed every Gedir in Mogadischu ricky tick and the only reason we didn't is because Bill Clinton has no cojones.

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DICK

Sunday, January 07, 2001 - 03:29 am
QJ

YOU ARE RIGHT.THERE USED TO BE A FORM OF SOMALI WRITTING WHICH USED TO EXIST.AND IT WASNT LATIN AND NOT NECESSARILY ARABIC STYLE THE WAY I WAS TOLD.IT WAS ALMOST DYING ANYWAY AND SIAD BARRE ABOLISH IT WHEN HE INTODUCED LATIN FORM OF WRITTING.

MAD MAC

NO DOUBT YOU COULD HAVE WIPPED OUT THE GEDIRS CONSIDERING YOUR STRENGTH.BUT THE QUESTION IS WOULD YOU HAVE DONE SO IN AN EQUAL OPPORTUNITY WAR.I MEAN GUN TO GUN OR EQUAL STRENGTH .OR WITHOUT HAVING THE UPPER HAND IN TERMS OF WEAPONS.I READ IN PAPERS ABOUT A HIGH RANKING AMERICAN ARMY OFFICER ADMITING AND SAYING THAT THE SOMALIS "MASTERED THE ART OF URBAN WARFARE".
AND THAT THERE WAS NO WAY THEY{US} COULD SUBDUE THEM WITHOUT USING EXCESSIVE FORCE.

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MAD MAC

Tuesday, January 09, 2001 - 05:01 am
Dick
Define excessive force? Excessive is when you use more force than neccessary to accomplish your mission. If I have to firebomb all of the Black Sea to accomplish my mission then I am not using excessive force. If I firebomb the Black Sea to kill Aideed, that's excessive force. See the difference? Whoever that officer was, he wasn't me. And there's not an American - alive or dead - who understands what was going on in Somalia better than moi. Trust me on this. We lost because we quit. We had two approaches that could have led to victory. We could have armed and trained the adversaries to the SNA (the Abgal and then the Murosade and Hawadle in Mogadischu) and let them do the dirty work with our assistance. Or we could have simply killed all of the SNA leaders until they quit (that was my recommended solution). Once the shooting begins you never quit unless you are holding the loosing cards - and we weren't.

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Poisonous

Tuesday, January 09, 2001 - 06:51 am
Mad-Mac, your naivity vis-a-vis the history of written Somali is unbelievable. Somalis in the know will tell you about the existence of different kinds of written Somali as far back as 1930. Personally, I was fortunate enough to read a book of 100´s of Sayyid Mohammad´s poems written in 1959 in the Somali charracters that you think was created by Siyad Barre(except CH is used instead of X) . And believe it or not, it was owned by Lusaka Library with a date stamp of 1967 or something.

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Hibo

Tuesday, January 09, 2001 - 06:53 am
I see the best debators of the net r in for a new hungry...sensitive issue... Mad Mac, Durgal, devils_love, Somali Yankee & so forth... Folks my salute... I will take the back bench for now.. n let the initial debators drain their energies......Mad Mac: I gotta say great topic off the latest trend of girl/boy subjects... Good job folks... keep it coming.. I am learning just like "Dick"... (though I hate this nick)...

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Rashed

Tuesday, January 09, 2001 - 11:07 am
mad mac
what are u talking about quitting ..it's known fact that Americans will quit as long as you could produce 10 body bags express to Washington....that's all u need ...
the next thing u know they gone ..leaving to wonder what hell was I doing here in the first place...... frankly pound for pound I 'll pick "skinny" somalian over your marines at any giving day .......

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Anonymous

Tuesday, January 09, 2001 - 11:53 am
Dick,
You said"NO DOUBT YOU COULD HAVE WIPPED OUT THE GEDIRS CONSIDERING YOUR
STRENGTH.BUT THE QUESTION IS WOULD YOU HAVE DONE SO IN AN EQUAL
OPPORTUNITY WAR.I MEAN GUN TO GUN OR EQUAL STRENGTH .OR WITHOUT
HAVING THE UPPER HAND IN TERMS OF WEAPONS.I READ IN PAPERS ABOUT A
HIGH RANKING AMERICAN ARMY OFFICER ADMITING AND SAYING THAT THE
SOMALIS "MASTERED THE ART OF URBAN WARFARE".
AND THAT THERE WAS NO WAY THEY{US} COULD SUBDUE THEM WITHOUT
USING EXCESSIVE FORCE. ".

Dumb ass! wars are won by any and every means necessary.What you are saying to mad mac is like saying"ok we have 103 bonny ass habr gedirs on this side with,88 klashnikovs,20 grenade launchers,2 bazookas and 1 pair of binoculars.I wan't 103 americans to give up their superior weapons and arm themselves similarly.Then lets' fight it out".Stupid STUPID STupid.

Ok mr DICK SUCKER let me ask you this-If those 103 bony,skeleton-like,130 pounds'soaking wet somalis dropped all of their weapons and fought hand to hand with the 170lbs + americans,who the •••• do you think would win?.That's what you are literally asking of mad mac.When in the f.u.c.k has any army in world history,willingly put down their weapons so that they enemies would be equal to them.

By the way-even if the americans were armed to the extent that somalis were,they would win.Why?because they are more organized.Remember the european powers ruled the entire african continent with little over 5 million men.

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Xoogsade

Tuesday, January 09, 2001 - 03:03 pm
So the conclusions we have reached are that the Somalis are an incredibly brave bunch of homicidal maniacs?

I think that about sums it up.

Mad Mac will confirm it. I saw the shots of the senior officers at the base holding their noses. It turns out that most of the guys involved in the firefight against the Moryan pooped in their pants out of sheer terror. The stench was that overwheling. Fuley xaar weyn ma maqli jirteen?

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Dare-Devil

Tuesday, January 09, 2001 - 07:06 pm
Ha haa haaa Dick your are the funniest pathological liar I have ever seen in this net.

There was a written Af-Soomaali Before Siyaad Barre????? ha ha ahaaaaahahahahahah! wuuuuuuuuuuuw yiiy!

ha ha ha ha even Mad Cow knows you are liar ha ha ha ahahahaha!

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MAD MAC

Tuesday, January 09, 2001 - 11:47 pm
Xoogsade
There were times when I was in Hamer that I would agree with you - you had a bunch of homicidal maniacs. They are mostly dead now though.

You're a fool if you believe that notion that our guys are all afraid and your guys are men of steel. Don't be a fool. Our sodliers fought incredibly well. That's why so many of your folks ended up dead. What's the figure I've seen from Yusuf Ali of the SNA? 13,000 dead. We lost 41. Fear, combined with good training, makes a good soldier. A Soldier who has no fear in combat is more likely to get sloppy and end up dead. And a dead soldier is a useless soldier. Furthermore, anyone who has no fear in combat is stupid. And a stupid soldier is a useless soldier. But if you think our guys were terrified - well think again. A healthy dose of adrenalin? Yeah. Terrified of your untrained maniacal slobs? No. BTW I was in that firefight - so please don't talk to me about some supposed photo you saw.

Poisonous
Cut me some slack will you? I don't even speak Somali. I thought it sounded suspicious when I read that Somali was not a written language until 1972. But that's the conventional wisdom.

Rasheed
It really depends on what the fight is about. In cynical terms, if the fight is over whether or not we're going to hang around and feed a bunch of ungrateful Africans and try and help them organize a government, then you're right. Kill 10 guys and we're likely to say "•••• it, let 'em starve." If, on the other hand, the fight is over oil, well then we're likely to say "let's go kill some people." I'm sure you've got the idea. The US will go toe to toe and win against ANYONE over resources. But if the fight is over some vague humanitarian concern, we won't fight for long. I think that's unfortunate, but it's also the way it is.

Please note when I say "a bunch of ungrateful Africans" I am talking about public opinion, not my own. I met many a grateful person when working in Somalia. I can remember one man who, when we offered him a job, was literally crying for joy. Many times we were greeted so warmly it made you feel like the whole thing was worthwhile - which for me it was.

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Rpg7

Wednesday, January 10, 2001 - 02:24 am
loooool Somali iyo been wa walaaloo dhe!!

I have been reading all the comments and frankly I was impressed by the high level of respect and the way in which each individual presented his view without swearing. But Mr.Baraf-Man broke the rules of engagement and started swearing.

If I give my opinions about the debated topics I will have to state that Galool was right 98% of the time. He truly and bravely pointed out the false selfimage that Somalis like to portray of themselves. The fact is Mad Mullah was a murderer, he won few battles, religiously he was not very educated at all note that his Religiuous leader Muhammad Salih declared him to be a disgrace to Islam, he forced the clans to follow him they were no freedom fighters they wanted to get rich and get more wifes I used to live in the Hawd do not tell me about my uncles and their mindset, its all in black and white just read the books.

Somalis are not close to being as great as the Zulu, have you read the Zulu history?? They are warriors of the first rank!There are other Africans that have produced civilisations Somalis can just dream about and yet we scorn them and you educated ones speak like a jahiil nomad in the Hawd plains that is what Galool was trying to point out I think! Somalis are asking Tansania and Kenya for asylum not the other way around. Nin baa yidhi "Somali abaal maleh" aniguna waxaan idiin idhi Allow muxuu ninkasii saxsana!!!


Somali iyo been walaalo wada socda dhe!!!!!!!!!
Somali iyo islawaayni aan jiriin walaalo dhe!!!!!

TODAYS FACT

Somalia has more idiots and liars per square mile than any other country, and that is a cold fact!!!!!!!!!!!!

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MAD MAC

Wednesday, January 10, 2001 - 03:37 am
RPG7 - Harsh. Very harsh.

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Hawd

Wednesday, January 10, 2001 - 05:00 am
salaan all fellow somalis,

Iam not a posting freak but this sight started as an interesting topic.

I wanna say some words about the Mulla. Befor the 1960 no somali will wver dare to praise the Mulla cause the genertaion who fought him and new him were a life.Speaking of the Mulla historically talking to elders and reading Bar's virsion are 2 thnigs.

I have read the Bio-graphy of the Mulla "DIVINE MADNESS" by a fellow somali, and i also read it by Doguls Jordan" THE MAD MULLA OF SOMALILAND".

I also heared so many elders talking about him, and have seen the poems of his enemy.

Ita amazing how somalis forget easily due to our "Hear Only knlowdgde" every thing is oral and after afew years when all the old men died history has a different heros.

To tell Xaaji Aadan Afqalooc(1860-1990), or Muuse Galaal(1880-1982) or Maxamuud Daalin (1864-1990), the Mulla was a heroe it would been laughed at.Maybe us young pepole can rationalize and in sreach oof a somali hero creat one out of the Mulla, but the facts are all against that idea.

The Mulla from his first afew years 1890-1904 was some how a natiolistic monk. After the war of Burco 1890 and the divison of his ally tribes(Habar Yoonis, Dhulbahante,Ogaadeen,Habar Jeclo) the Mulla entirly relied on afew Dhulbahante calns from his mother side. By 1919 even those die
hard ankles left him. Nad the prove of that is the testimony of his right hand boy. Ismaaciil Mire. Ismaaciil was asked about the mulla and said he was no different then a butcher, a crazy man who enjoyed sheding the blood of opposing tribes.
In His peom for Carab Dheere 1940:

Kaakaci wadaadkii laguna kuulmeeye
...................keenay Baardhige
Kadabkiisi wuxu goay marku kaday ragiisiye
Ragaw kibirka waa lagu kufaa kaana hala ogaado.


To say the least there was afew battles, if u can call them that between the Mulla and the Englsih.the rest of the time the Mulla was stealing camles from ..oppsoing tribes. in 1912 he stole 200 camles from the Habar yonis, in 1919 he took 300 cattles from the Ogaadeens. By the time he died the..Harti tribe were starving. all his allies left him even his embasdor to Yaman and Turky.later he sluaghtred his family in Sanaag.

Its different for the somalis, if they are Dhulbahnte, they were led to believe they were the daraawiish, ??? if u aske the Ogaadeen and Garxajis and other northen tribes they would say.. it was the best day the day he perished.

Then after 1960 the myth was brought to live . First poet ever parised the Mulla was Axmed Diiriye Qaasin ironicly he is a memeber of the same tribe as the Mullas arch enemies ( Muuse Faraax Igre and Xaaji Waraabe , 2 men with combined forces of 10,000 who buchered the Daraawiish ). But nationlism does starnge things to youth.

After 1969 Siyaad Bare given the fact his mom was Ogaadeen orodred the collection of all Mulla's poem.Bare thought he was another Mulla , he equated him self with Axmed Guray and M.C.Xasan. It was not allowed to collect any poem who was recited by the enemies of the mulla. Cali Jaamac haabiil(1950-1913). Cali Dhuux Adan..etc.

I think i would stop right there talked too much. one more thing true there was a Cusmaaniya scrpit back in 1950, and books been written in 1954 by Muuse Galaal "Xikmat Al Soomaal".


bye

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RASHEED

Wednesday, January 10, 2001 - 12:18 pm
RPJ7 ALL I GOT TO SAY TO YOU IS ELUDE BACK OF WHAT I SAID EARLIER "THERE IS NO HATE AS SELF HATRED'" SO, REACH WITHIN YOURSELF BROTHER AND TRY TO UNDERSTAND WHAT IS THE MATTER !!!!!!!!!!

Mad Mac:
ARE YOU TELLING IN THE GULF WAR HAD SADAM'S ANTI AIR CRAFT ROCKETS HIT ABOUT 100 F16 AND SUBSEQUENTLY LEAD TO THE CAPTURED OF PILOTS AND HOLD THEM HOSTAGES THE U.S. GOVERNMENT WOULD HAVE PRECEDED WITH THE GROUND ATTACK????!!!!
GIVING THE KNOWN FACT THE PUBLIC AND THE GOVERNMENT COLLECTIVELY WERE AGAINST THE WAR TO BEGIN WITH .......
YOU KNOW THE SAD THING THE U.S. NEVER FULLY RECOVERED PHYSIOLOGICALLY OF VIETNAM AND THAT DICK-HEAD SADAM GIVE THEM THE CHANCE TO PARTLY OVER COME IT ....BUT THANKS TO THE SNA THE USA WILL THINK TWICE BEFORE SENDING TROOPS OVER SEAS WETHER FOR HUMANITARIAN ,POLICING, OR TO DEFEND IT'S INTEREST THAT INCLUDE OIL NATURAL GAS OR WHAT HAVE YOU.

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dick

Wednesday, January 10, 2001 - 01:30 pm
HIBO

Hibo you don’t have to hate the nick, all you have to do is romance the head.

ANONAMOUS.

FIRST OF ALL LET ME BE A FREAK AND SAY WHO I HATE...I HATE "NO NAME" SCARY, FREAKY FAGS WHO HIDE THEMSELFS WHILE INSULTING OTHERS.I DONT HAVE TIME FOR A LEFT-HANDED HE-BITCH LIKE YOU.AND FOR YOUR INFORMATION,IF IT WASNT FOR HABAR GITHIR,YOU WOULDNT BE DEBATING WITH MAD MAC NOW.HABAR GITHIR AT LEAST SINGLE HANDEDLY WITHSTOOD THE STRONGEST NATION IN THE GLOBE.AND MADE THEM GIVE UP.THEY GOT NORIEGA,WHY NOT AIDEED,WHO INFACT HUMILLIETED THEM.

PUSSY ASS..LET ME TELL YOU THIS.WARS ARE NOT ALWAYS WON WITH ONLY ARMS,BUT GUTS AND COURAGE WHICH YOU SEEM TO LACK.A FAT CHUBBY WHITEMEN ENSLAVE EXTRA ORDINARILY GIANT AFRICAN MANDINGOS FOR CENTUARIES.HOW COME THEY COULDNT BREAK THE NECKS OF THEIR ENSLAVERS.WHY DID THEY USED ALL THAT STRENGTH TO DIG FARMS FOR THEIR MASTERS.WELL IT GUTS. THAT IS WHAT THEY DIDNT HAVE.WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT GODZILLA,SIZE DONT REALLY MATTER IN A GUN BLAZING BATTLE FIELD.WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT A BOXING RING.EVEN IN A BOXING RING, THE ONE WITH THE MOST GUTS WIN.MIKE TYSON PUT DOWN ALOT OF MEN STRONGER THAN HIM.AND BRUNO SCARED AWAY FROM ALOT OF MEN HALF HIS SIZE.
SO SCARY HE-BITCH, LET ME KEEP TELLING YOU THAT A "BONNY-ASS SOMALI" COULD WITHSTAND ANY SIZE AMERICAN OR ANY OTHER NATIONALITY GIVEN THAT THEY ARE OF EQUAL STRENGTH, ARMS WISE. AND WE PROVED THAT IN OUR HISTORY. A 170LB GUTLESS MAN IS LIKE A MOVING COPSE.I WOULD RATHER HAVE A SINGLE BRAVEMAN FIGHTING ALONGSIDE ME THAN A HUNDRED 200LBS GUTLESS WHO WOULD FREAK AWAY FROM THEIR OWN SHADOW.ANY BODY CAN EAT EXCESSIVE PROTEIN,AND PUMP STEROIDS IN THEIR VEINS AND BE AS HUGE AS AN ELEPHANT.BUT THERE IS NOTHING ON EARTH THAT CAN GIVE YOU GUTS. YOU GOTTA BE BORN WITH IT.MAY BE IN FUTURE PERHAPS, BY AN ADVANCE CLONNING.ALLAH KNOWS.MAY BE FREAKS LIKE YOU COULD GET SOME GUTS.

NEXT TIME GET SOME NAME AND LET EVERY ONE KNOW ITS YOU. YOU'RE NOTHING BUT A TWO DOLLAR FAG. FREAK OF NATURE.
I WILL NOT ANSWER YOU AGAIN WITHOUT A NAME.

Mad Mac

My simple plain understanding of excessive force, is when you hit a fly with a Bazooka. American soldiers were using latest tanks,armored vehicles,jet fighters,combat helicopters armed with depleted Uranium shells against a bunch of gun totting civilians turned soldiers, driving a junkyard look alike technicos mounted with a simple machine gun. No wonder why you killed 13,000 people. And fire bombing the entire Black sea to accomblish your selfish end without any consideration on how many fish you killed isn’t humane and definitely not bravery. And it is excessive use of force. And blowing up the heads of 13yrs olds, with “silver heads”, is not something to brag about. Mogadishu is basically inhospitable. People are breathing, to date, a depleted Uranium oxide dust. The place is more radioactive than Chernobil of Russia.
And it true what I said about the High ranking American officer. I read that ,a year ago,when I was doing some research on Somalia, in a Brittish News Paper called Independent. I was going through some old News papers then. And that is exactly what he said.And he was also criticizing Admiral Howe, best know as “Animal-Haw” in Mogadishu.
And one more thing.and I don’t think you can deny this,that the Americans used as human shield, and surrounded themselves with soldiers from other countries. The moryaans had to fight and pass through soldiers of other countries in order to get to you guys. It was all over the papers.

DEVILS LOVE


Call me liar or whaterver but the truth is a truth, and there was a write Somali that existed. It was commonly used in some regions in Somalia and not throughout Somalia. And before you jump into conclusion, first look at the facts. Do some research here and there, and before long you will come back here and agree with me.And cll me master.

Rpg7

You are just repeating old denials, and bias mentality of your wont get you any where.

HAWD

You Are nothing but a stone age man who wisened up in the west. May be you were misinformed by an ignorant old man with no historical value,and could offer you nothing but mischievious mentality. I don’t have time to debate with some one who doesnt know his back ground.

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Devils_love

Wednesday, January 10, 2001 - 02:32 pm
Dick :

Please do not confuse me for DARE DEVIL..I am DEVILS LOVE....and I have not said what u so blindly seem to accuse me of.....


I am sure when you look up...you will be able to tell the difference...good luck


devils Love.

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Rpg7

Wednesday, January 10, 2001 - 08:04 pm
Salama Caleykum rag iyo dumarba!!!

Mad Mac

Truth can either be harsh or sweet depending on who you ask, but it is always simply the truth.

Richard"Dick"

What are you stuttering about?? Are you realy believing that you are one of Mad Mullahs soldiers?? looooool common get a gripp on your self bro, by the way the facts "Hawd" presented are actually true, maybe you should look it up before you insult him and deny his findings, then again you could always choose to act the Somali way and deny it although you know its true loooooooool, brother don't be a dick looool!


Rasheed

loooool @ you, There is no selfhatred in me, I am displaying my love for my Somali people by telling the naked truth. Somalis are half pagan half Muslim and that is true if you look at our culture and behaviour!


Todays astonishing Fact

There are more cars in one American city then in the entire Somali inhabited territories!!!!!!!!!

Somali iyo horumar wax an jiriin dhe!!!

Somali sense of truth=Sheekoy sheekoy sheeko xaarirra shimbira..............loool!!!

Nabdgelyo!!!!!!!!!!!

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MAD MAC

Wednesday, January 10, 2001 - 10:00 pm
Rasheed
Every country should think twice before employing its armed forces.

Yes, the ground war was going to happen unless the Irai Army had withdrawn from Kuwait. As it was he had 32 pilots (they were POWs not hostages. Had Saddam killed them then we would not have stopped the ground war until he was dead - which would be bad forhim personally).

The fight in Somalia did cause pause over future interventions. And that's a good thing because the Clinton administration never stopped looking for places to deploy the military. This naturally leads to resentment.

Dick
We didn't use depleted uranium rounds in Hamer. They are used on the 30mm cannon of the A-10, which is a fixed wing jet not employed in Somalia. We used the AC-130, which fired HE rounds, and the Cobra gunship which fired 20mm he and AP rounds. So if there's a problem vis-a-vis radiation poisoning, don't look at us. Talk to your Italian friends who are purportedly using Somalia as a nuclear waste dumping ground.

The Army has a definition of excessive force and yours ain't it. Excessive force is more force used than needed to accomplish the mission. If smoking some 13 year old is required to accomplish the mission then it's not excessive force. We were at war with the SNA. If you think that we are going to allow him to exploit the rules of war to avoid engagement, or to engage us from sanctuary, then think again. Perhaps some American Officer said that - we don't have monolithic opinions. But he ain't right. We could have won and we should have won. If for no other reason than to disavow the notion that if we lose a dozen troops we'll quit.

The Americans used other countries soldiers as human shields???? Whoa, is this a distortion. Dick I fought in Somalia. I was there in 92, 93, and 94, and I didn't see you there. Now the Egyptians and Turks had responsibility for perimeter security at the airport and the Embassy and University compounds. Is this called using a human shield? We were fighting on the same side!!! They were soldiers and we were sodliers. When the Pakistanis conducted the inventory of AWSS 1, who lit 'em up? The fucking Gedirs that's who. Who are you trying to kid here? You think I just got off the banana boat?? Those Mooryan motherfuckers killed 25 Pakistani troops without a thought to Muslim brotherhood. And why?? Because they were taking heavy weapons out of the storage sites, that's why. And they didn't want anyone to count them and figure that out. And Aideed wanted to push the UN into a box to he could conduct operations as he saw fit - as if he were some sort of authority. We never used human shields, unless you define fighting side by side with other countries troops (the Malaysians were great - and troops of my unit have maintained friendships with them ever since) as using them as human shields.

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Dare-Devil

Wednesday, January 10, 2001 - 10:07 pm
The Good
Mad Mac,Galool and Hawd

The bad,
Xoogsade and the gang you stink like sh*t......

The Ugly,
Ice man you are skunk/imbecile...

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MAD MAC

Wednesday, January 10, 2001 - 11:42 pm
RPG7
The truth is not always the truth. Remember that axiom. Reality is what it's perceived to be.

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EBRO

Friday, January 19, 2001 - 11:17 pm
KEEP DEBATING...........GOOD JOB KIDS.
FYI only. Af Somali in latin was not first written in 1972. No. No. Back in the late 50's and early 60's, there were books available on what is today's Af Somali in latin. These books were called "IFTIINKA AQOONTA". It has such stories as Wiil Waal. Faarax Oomaar and his peers were the ones that came up with this latin approach. Afwayne's regeme witnessed a dabate that took place in Jawhar in 1969 at the Somali Mennonite Mission, or Shabelle School. The students there used to debate every Wednsday on various topics. There were 3 groups debating on the issue of adopting a scripture for the Somali language, namely, Ismaciiliyah, Arabic alphabets and the latin one of Iftiinka Aqoonta.... The latin one was practical for economic reasons and was therefore voted for.
Please continue..........
P.S. You all missed were Gerald Hanley in his book, Warriors and Strangers",warns the chief, if you all elderly would just vanish perhaps your children would have a chance to forget these blood feuds............. The man was able to forsee the current Somali Situation.
Ebro

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Hibo

Saturday, January 20, 2001 - 08:07 am
Hold up.......folks... I am confused... I thought History was to remain the same... what is all this contradicting facts u guys seem to be putting forth... I am not learning here folks......i am loosing the facts i have so megerly gathered.. Plss.... b4 u drive me nuts...come to some kind of mutual conclusions.. about the Somali history....I am begging u here...

Dick: I would prefer to romance the trunk than the head bro......

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GhettoGirl

Saturday, January 20, 2001 - 08:12 am
Free Mandela Free Mandela Free Mandela!!!!!!!!!!!
Opps Sorry Wrong Parade :)

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MAD MAC

Sunday, January 21, 2001 - 12:40 am
Ghetto Girl
Ahhhh, Mandela was freed, became president of South Africa, retired from public office, has worked as an African negotiator, gotten divorced and remarried and now is known as one of the greatest African leaders of all time. Just thought I'd better update on since you appear to have spent the last 10 years on the moons of jupiter.

Ebro
You know, I never thought about it, but yor're right. In a sense there's some forboding there for what will come, although I doubt Hanley could have outright predicted it. He ends his book on an optimistic note and thought Somalia was going to seize its future. What a shame it didn't. Somalia could have been the shining light in Africa. Too bad they valued the warrior ethic more than their other traits. I still love them though.

Time for another quote:

Passing down the long coastline of Somalia in an Italian ship the other week again I saw the scorched, burned, dried out rock and hot sand on which I used to sit with Hashim at night and talk. I have never forgotten one particular thing he said to me.
"When all your machines and ships and aircraft and all those things you make, when they are all finished, our Arab Dhows will still be sailing the seas, and we Arabs will hold together the world that we made from India and farther east too, to here and to Europe. We are not finished yet, even though we are beggars now."

And I have never ceased to be amazed at how many Somalis still believe this. Of course it is Islam that gives them this sense of pre-ordained superiority. But it's always there, sometimes hidden beneath the surface, sometimes not. It's the thing that makes Somalis so easy to hate and love at the same time. Other Arabs sometimes talk the talk, but they lack the convictions that the Somalis possess. Never have I seen a people throw themselves so completely into their beliefs or rush to destruction and death the way Somalis so often do. If we can ever focus that energy towrds building a productive country Somalia will rise out of the ashes to be Africas leader. Insha Allah!!!!

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Xamaali.

Sunday, January 21, 2001 - 02:07 am
Hawd.

The mullah was one of the best and there is no doubt about it. I don't have to listen to those who fought against him or served the interest of the italian or the brittish colonialists. Somalis were either fighting against him or fighting with him or else minded their bussiness and never joined sides. History has recorded well who was what and who served who. Thanks for the bigotry. Many who oppose have their roots in those who fought against the Sayid and what they tell is the hypocritic stories handed down by their forefathers. I read about the man and pass my judgement on the Man based on what is recorded from him not whay you and people like you write about him.

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RPG7

Sunday, January 21, 2001 - 04:54 am
Facts about the Mad Mullah:
1.He murdered more than 100 people

2.He was not of the Qadiriya Muslim order(most
Somalis are ) he was Salihiya(very extrem order)

3.He was declared a non-Muslim by Muhamad Salih his teacher

4.He was supported by the Turks, Germans etc

5.His most hated enemy was a Habar Yonis man called Ina Farah Igre

6.He killed countless woman and children

7.He hated the colonialists

8.He was among the 10 greatest poets Somalis have ever seen

9.He forced the majority of the Dhulbahante to follow him

10.He died in Imey(S/Galbeed)

That about summs up 10 important facts about the Mad Mullah!!!

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Galool

Sunday, January 21, 2001 - 07:54 am
Xammaali

I am not sure what you mean by MM being "one of the best" as you fail to elaborate on what exacly was he supposed good at. Sure he was one of the best poets Somalia, perhaps even the world has ever produced. I am always moved by the color, and the sheer raw emotion he puts into his prose. He also had a wonderful, dry, almost playful sense of humour - not very common in conventional Somali poetry.

Alas, I don't think this is what impressed you about the Mullah. You think he was a great warrior, and sadly, the facts do not support your expectations on this issue. He failed to win a single battle during his whole campaign, and he panicked and fled when faced with aerial bombardment. If he had shown a litle more grit the outcome may have been different. Half-an hour of Dervish guts and the planes would have returned to base as they would have run out of fuel. Instead he(MM) broke the line and ran for it, followed by his most senior henchmen. This caused the whole front to collapse, and men ran into all directions.

So why don't we cut this non-sense about bravery and bravado and look at our past in an objective and realistic manner. This may help us assess our current predicament, and look to the future with calmness and rationality.

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Xamaali.

Sunday, January 21, 2001 - 10:50 am
RPG7.

Your so called facts are the brittish version of the their story to discredit the Mullah. The paper you talk about from Sheekh salix was actualy THE FORGERY and the Conspiracy of the BRITTISH colonialists. Not only that, but on many occassions, The brittish used to send his somali stooges and servants to blame the Mullah using islamic reasoning. They used to tell him that he(Mullah) was digressing by fighting fellow muslims etc etc. However, The Mullah was clever enough to understand the plans behind the shrouds of hypocricy. This is what he told them as an answer:

Nin aqdaamo ferenjiyo, maantiyo abuurriin
Ama aaladduu sida, ama awrtabuu u rara
Ama ariga buu qala, ama laba ugaarsada
Ama uba ilaala ah, ama uurka kala jira
Ashahaado beeniyo, Islaannimo halagu dhaqo
Ilaaheyna nama oran, anna ma oggolaan karo

If you don't understand the poem, which I suspect you don't, Let me help you with a close and rough translation of it.

For The One who serves the "gaal", Today or ever

Or carries the tools for that "gaal",
Or saddles the transport for him(the gaal)

Or for the One who slaughters the goats for him,
Or goes hunting with him

Or becomes a watchman for that Gaal,
Or associates with the Gaal in secrecy

For that person, False testimony of towhid,
And he be treated according to islam,
Allah didn't tell us, and I can't accept it.


Let me tell you this, All history about him are distorted except few books written in somali. All his peoms are the testimony of his ordeals with the somalis and proplems he had with them. Somalis don't like their country and have no allegiance to any ideological concept that binds them except for the last few years inwhich we saw an islamic trend seeping into the minds of the young people to find unity and purpose. Is it surprising then that some somalis DEVIDE THE COUNTRY RATHER THAN UNITE IT, or envite foreigners of all kinds rather than protecting the sanctity of our country??. The self serving bigotts in earlier history Have their pedegrees repeating the same conspiracy against the somalis and somalia by blinding us in the name of TRIBAL PROTECTION. Somethings NEVER CHANGE.

The tribes who fought against the Mullah did as much pillaging and looting to the Sayid as much he retaliated against them. The sad part of that history is, Those tribes conspired against a fellow somali while supporting an imperialist and expansionist Amxaaro. In fact the tribe of the Mullah used to raid THE DARVISHES with the Amxaro, the same way Northerners did raid the Darvishes with the help of the Brittish. The list of the conspiratories goes on and on. It is ugly. It ain't pretty so cut THE BS you ALL WRITE about the SAYID.

Galool.

Does everyone have to be inferior to you??. Let me guess, I admire the Sayid for religious purposes only and not for his literature??. Honestly, I like the truth to be told and that people stop telling us or deceiving the uninformed by relating the imperialist concocted fairy tales and the somali hypocritic version of our history. I don't like the bias that is based on tribalism that some people PRESENT AS INTELLECTUAL WISDOM.

I have seen your few pro-islam posts. We don't wanna go there. You should understand things from a patriotic point of view if you don't mess with POLITICAL ISLAM as you put it ot some people.

Peace to all except.

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Xoogsade

Sunday, January 21, 2001 - 11:07 am
Xamaali:

Don't listen to this damn fool. The Sayid was the greatest Somali who ever lived. Brave he was. A visionary. A patriot. Great poet. Orator of the highest order. And he had balls the size of an elephant.

They must be joking comparing the Sayid to a white man's ass kisser like Ina Iggare. The Sayid's history and his actions are and will continue to be a source of pride and inspiration for Somalis. And we will need that inspiration in say 5 years time when we see Amharic taught in our schools and vile Ethiopes running around on our sacred Somali soil. I mean patriotic Somalis will use his example. But the traitors might use and study the example and the ways of quislings like Ina Iggare.

Some of you are speculating on the on the origins of this shite Galool's Somali hatred? Is he an oppressed Midgaan? A filthy half-breed mongrel? A gay approximation of man who has been fucked by whitey not just in the ass but the head until he didn't know waht was what?

I say who cares? cause this man is a scum-sucking whore for the white man for whom he bends over with relish and there is no need to find motives for him. The facts are out there and he descredits himself everytime he opens his mouth but what he can't do is alter the true historical facts. They are in the record book:

Did the Sayid win battles so decisive that he sent the British running to the shores of Berbera frantically calling their ships for evacuation? No, definitely not.

But scarcely two years after he assembled his force, he faced four major Expeditions mounted against him. He fought a brilliant guerrilla war to keep them at bay despite the fact he was constantly outgunned and outmanned. On top of which he was constantly facing harrassment form local tribes who very hostile. People generally assume that all the Dhulbahante were with him. Not the case. Maybe 30% were loyal to him. His support came from all corners and tribes of Somalia but not in sufficient and large numbers to offset all the enemies he had. He called his troops the Daraawiish or Duubcad.

That the daraawiish suffered horrific losses is illustrated by this poem by Ismaaciil Mire:

Gumburo iyo Cagaarweyne iyo geedkii Daratoole
Goobtii Jidbaaliyo Xargaga guuldarradi joogtey
Gembigii ka dahcay Ruugga iyo gudurigii haagay
Gaboodeeda Beerdhiga wixii la isku gooraamay
......

But the fact is neither did the British achieve their aim of putting the incipient rebellion(if you can call it that). In the words of that famous war criminal Kissinger the government side loses if it does not win a decisive victory in a guerrilla war.

This is how Prevost-Battersby summarised the Expeditions:

"Such is the story of the British Expeditions in Somaliland none of which can be said to have attained its object. They may perhaps best be summarised by the battles which brought them all but the last of them to a conclusion:

The British Expedition, 1901. Lieutenant Colonel E J E Swayne(Suweyn Cawar loo yiqiin thereafter)
Samaala 2nd june 1901 -- Mullah defeated.

Fardhidin 17th July 1901 -- Mullah defeated, but the British force obliged to retire.

Second British Expedition, 1902. ---- E J E Swayne

Eeragoo 6th October 1902, Mullah driven off but the British force obliged to retire.

Third British Expedition, 1902-1903. ---- Brigadier General W H Manning

Gallaadi 17th April 1903----- British force cut to pieces.

Daratoole 22nd April 1903 --- British driven back

Fourth British Expedition, 1903-1904. Major-General C Egerton

Jidbaale**** 10January 1904 -- British victory but no decisive consequences.

Illig 21st April 1904-- Town captured but British force withdrawn.

*****At Jidbaale the dervishes suffered horrific losses and as essayed before by Dick there was an element of treachery involved. But the mother of all treacheries was the promise of refuge extended to the Sayid and his badly hobbled army by Boqor Cismaan of the Majeerteen and who proceeded to break after Italian pressure and sent out an army of 6666 men(The number of verses in the quran). Thereafter the Sayid recited his powerful and moving Jiinley poem which rallied enough support for him to stabilize the situation.


During all this fighting the Sayid maintained his war of words and psychological warfare. His watchwords were resolution in war and defiance in defeat( to borrow a Churchill's mottoes; He came to figure in the Mullah affair later on):

"IF YOU WISH WAR I AM HAPPY; IF YOU WISH PEACE I AM ALSO CONTENT. BUT IF YOU WISH PEACE GO FROM MY COUNTRY TO YOUR OWN. IF YOU WISH WAR STAY WHERE YOU ARE."

That is the essence of the man distilled in that missive to the British after the Battle of Daratoole. A brave fighter and leader and a patriot of the highest order.

After the conclusion of these expeditions the British changed tack and came to an arrangement with the Sayid through the Italian envoy Pezztalozza. The Sayid needed time to consolidate his forces and the British wanted some peace to conduct their livestock trade without too much bother and milatary expense.

He was ceded large tracts of territory in the Nugaal valley and as far south as the webi Sahbeele where he erected his forts. When he was sufficiently strong he started to flex his muscles again and started harrying the British and their loyalists. In the south The Biyamaal tribe and some religious orders were making life rough for the Eyeties.


So it was that in 1908 the British sent high level delegation consisting of General Sir Reginald Wingate, Governor-General of Anglo-Egyptian Sudan and Sirdar of the Army, and General Sir Rudolf Baron Von Slatin, Inspector General of the Sudan (better known as Slatin Pasha) in order to negotiate with the Sayid and come to final agreement for full peace. The Sayid disdainfully turned down their offers once again reiterating that peace will come only when all the uncircumcised infidels were driven out of the Land of the Somalis.

General Sir Reginald Wingate then recommended that the British give arms to all the loyalist tribes and then retreat to the coast. This was the disastrous policy of Coastal Concentration. Idiot Galool claimed that they pursued this policy because of their involvemment in WW1. Not true. It preceded that war by years and it was forced on them by relentless Darwiish harrassment and raiding.

I will address the situation of Darwiish in the final years some other time and the reasons for the final destruction of the Darwiish movement and why it did not survive the death of the Sayid.

Hawd:

The Sayid was commanding a large broadly based movement until the bitter end. There were however many problems I will elucidate at a later date. And they had huge wealth in all its forms. In fact that is one the reasons for their demise in that they became too fat and prosperous. They were no longer a guerrilla force that can move speedily and with little damage across the desert.

As to your claim that Siyaad Barre created this legend. Well that is just stupid isn't it? Sheekh Jaamac Cumar Ciise spent most of the late forties and fifties scouring all of Somalia putting together the history and poetry of the Darwiish era. He financed this glorious project by selling his own share of his family's livesrtock reducing himself to penury while enriching the history of Somalia. Muuse Galaal was working hand in hand with him on this project. Sheekh Jaamac wrote his notes and manuscript by using a modified Arabic script. Copies of his original manuscript in Arabic script, dated from the fifties can be found in some University libraries.

Governor Archer released a list of wanted men(and the price of the bounty on their head) consisting of the leadership of the Sayid's movement. It will show the broad national character of this movement:

Maxamed Cabdille Xasan, Ogadden, Bah Geri, Reer Xamar 5000 rupees
Khaliif Cabdille Ogadden, Bah Geri, Reer Xamar 1000 rupees
Mahdi Maxamed Cabdille, Ogadden, Bah Geri, Reer Xamar 500 rupees
Caamir Xasan Ogaadeen, Bah Geri, Reer Xamar 500 rupess
Calli Cabdille Xasan, Ogaadeen, Bah Geri, Reer Xamar 500
Yuusuf Cabdille Xasan, Ogaadeen, Bah Geri, Reer Xamar 500
Ilma Maxamed(20 of them) 100 rupees each
Xaaji Sheekh Warsame Xaaji Suudi, Habar Jeclo, Aadan Madoobe 1000 Rupees
Cabbaas Aw Muuse , Dhulbahante, Bah Ararsame 500
Nuur Xaashi, Warsangeli 250
Xaaji Farxad Hawiye, 500
Abshir Dhoore Majeerteen, 500
Xaaji Jaamac Yuusuf(Tamiinlaaye) Habar Awal, Sacad Yoonis 250
Ibraahim Buqul, Habar Jeclo, Aadan Madoobe 500
Xuseen Yuusuf(Ajuuraan) Dhulbahante, Jaamac Siyaad 500
Axmed bin Cumar Tage, Dhulbahante, Bah Ararsame 500

One group is obviously chosen for their close consanguinity to the Sayid. The others for their seniority and influence in the movement. An indicator of their pre-eminence is the fact that the hugely influential Darwiish warriors like Ismaaciil Mire and Xirsi Cartan Boos are nowhere to be found.

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Xoogsade

Sunday, January 21, 2001 - 11:08 am
Soomalia Ha noolaato

Cadowgeedu ha dhaco

Galool iyo eeydiisa ha la laayo

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EBRO

Sunday, January 21, 2001 - 05:12 pm
FOR THE RECORD.
THE INCIDENTED I MENTIONED ABOVE AS TO WHEN THAT DEBATE TOOK PLACE IN JAWHAR ON THE DECISION OF SOMALI ALPHABET, TOOK PLACE IN THE ACCADEMIC YEAR OF 1971-72 NOT 1969.

MAD MAC
IT'S BEEN 21RS SINCE I READ GERALD HANLEY'S, "WARRIORS AND STRANGERS", BUT IT TAUGHT ME A LOT ABOUT MY PEOPLE. AMONG THE REMARKS THAT I STILL RECALL ARE THE ONE THIS TOPIC WAS OPENED WITH, THE INCIDENT WHERE HE THREATENED THE CHIEF THAT HE WOULD KILL HIM, IF HE SENDS HIS MEN TO WAR. THE ATTITUDE OF A FELLOW SAVAGE, what we would refer to as, 'ALAYLAHEE WAA NIN XININYA LEH', AFTER ALL HE COULD RELATE TO ME FAR BETTER THAN THE GOVERNMENT HE THINKS I REPRESENT. IT WAS HIS FIRST UNDERSTANDING ABOUT THE SOMALI PEOPLE. ALSO WHERE HE REFERS TO THE SOMALI INTELLIGENCE AS SECOND TO NONE.

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RPG7

Sunday, January 21, 2001 - 09:04 pm
lool waar ragoow kala dareera xoolihi ayaa caawa so baxaay oo naga xumeyeey doodi si ficaan uu socotey eh!!

Xoogsade

Waar ninkaagan Xoogsade adiga waxaan ku bixiiyey "Bodyguard" wayo dee waxaad haysata caqliga ASKARI JAHIL AH, you would be the perfect bodyguard no brains just do what you are told.

Mr.Xoogsade(Bodyguard) your insults of Mr.Galool were also uncalled for and those kind of remarks might lead to a deterioration in the currently fairly functioning debate structure so please refrain from further insultive remarks for the good of the larger forums community.

Mr.Bodyguard(Xoogsade) your remarks about Ina Igre were not to pleasant either after all he was the victourious one, he was the last man standing after the battle, just as i am standing but Afweyne and his regim is dead, so please show the winner the respect that is due to a winner!

Xaamali

Did not the Mad Mullah have the support of the Italians at times and of the Turks and Germans all the time???

What is the difference between the German and English man????

The fact is Mad Mullah had weapons, many weapons, who provided those weapons??? The Turks, Germans and italians ofcourse at times the Mad Mullah sought the help of ethiopia, it is all in the books go back and read my brother!!

When you are talking about the Gaal this and the Gaal that, realise that many Somalis are Gaalos. Being born somali does not automaticaly mean you are a Muslim. I am not insultig you but a fellow Somali put you out of your country(Somalia) not a Gaal, however a Gaal gave you sanctity, housing, job-opportunity etc maybee even foodstamps lool intaasi kaftaan ayeey iga ahaayd lool, but you see my point so stop being a Jahiil or programmed Robot and judge from the facts not what some Jahiil old Somali qabiliisteyaal told you!!

Nabadgelyo iyo Kuulanti dambe!!!

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RPG7

Sunday, January 21, 2001 - 09:22 pm
TODAYS ASTONISHING FACT:

There are more people in New York City than in Somalia-Somaliland-Djibouti-NFD and S/galbeed put together!!!!!!

The irony is New york city has 16 million inhabitants who all live in one city peacefully!!

But Somalis are approximately 10 million and live on an area the size of Texas and California combined but they are poor.

Somalis are indeed a lost people who like to live in their dream castle, Xoogsade and his types have hijacked the nation and people of the horn and we need to fight them on their propaganda offensive recently launched on the internet.

I am commited to carrying my verbal RPG7 at all times for defense and at times i might shoot but when i do it is knowledge shoot right into the brain, xoogsade got the first shoot in the forehead lets see if the grenade entered his brain as knowledge, it would mean the first lost soul is recaptured!!!

Nabadgelyo!!!

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MAD MAC

Sunday, January 21, 2001 - 11:36 pm
Xoogsade
Your line about inviting voreigners instead of protecting the "sanctity" of the country is a classic example of Xenophobia the Somalis love to exhibit. We have people with this same primative mind-set in America, and also here in Germany where I live now. It never ceases to amaze me. The presence of difference cultures is an enriching thing, not a detracting one. You can always disregard those cultural aspects you don't like. But you can't adopt the ones you do if you are never exposed to them.
Additionally, your diatribe against Galool is ludicrous. Again, another classic Somali trait - no tolerance for one who is at variance in opinion with you. This is one of the principal reasons why Somalia decended into a raging blood bath. Instead of calling him names (which by the way is forbidden by the Qur'an - you might try reading it once in a while) you should simply hold your ground and argue the merits of your case.

As for the wars with the British - they did not lose because unlike most guerilla wars they did not need to win. All they wanted was to ensure their garrison at Aden was supplied with fresh meat and that no unfriendly state occupied Berbera or Bendar Kassim (now Boosaso) and establish a competing naval base. They succeeded in both cases. Where the Mullah truly failed, and the reason that the British, in the long run, were able to reassert their rule, was in not establishing a mechanism to keep his rebellion functioning until it won. He built a cult of personality which collapsed upon his death. That's why he has no lasting legacy outside that of the notion of resistance - the poetry not withstanding. He didn't build a government infrastructure, he didn't estabilsh a consitution, he didn't even establish much of a constituency. His legacy is one of violence and twisted rationales. If you want to look to a true Somali hero, someone with real cajones, look at Elmi. There's a man who gave his life in the effort to restore dignity to his people.

Ebro
I read the book two years ago. It was a gift from a friend of mine who saw it in a bookstore while on vacation in England. knowing of my obsession with Somalia she picked it up for me. I enjojyed reading it and thought he captured a lot of what Somalia is all about. However, there were times when he seemed confused about what constituted a Somali (he get's confused about the Somali clans) and I'm also not sure that he understood the Somalis (minus some bantu peoples) are all one tribe - they have different clans. But they are ethnically the same people. This happens a lot since:

a. Westerners have a hard time understanding clan feuds. They have forgotten their own history.

b. The Somalis only have one word for Tribe and Clan - Qabil. The word Qabil is usually translated as tribe, but in the Somali case this is a mis-nomer.

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Xamali.

Monday, January 22, 2001 - 06:43 am
RPG7.

I won't let losers mess with our history due to their hypocritic stories passed down to them by their brittish serving and ethiopian loving grandfathers. If anyone writes another lie I will copy here the poems of the Sayid that will solve the case as it is.

NO ONE MESSES WITH THE SAYID.

Xoogsade.

Thanks saaxiib. I am not worried at all. If they don't stop their hypocricy and lying about the facts, I will show them the true history that made them LOSERS.


MAD.

Somalia belongs to somalis period. Anyone enviting a foreigner is considerd ANOTHER FOREIGNER and can be GASSED. He can shove his somaliness and islamness in wherever he likes best.

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Galool

Monday, January 22, 2001 - 11:08 am
Xoogsade

My points are obviously hitting home. I will not mention your Seccesionist ambitions again, provided you make an attempt at using the right end of your anatomy for speech next time!

I really don't know why we are going over this Sayyid issue over and over again. I suppose it hurts the clannish feelings of too many people to realize that the Dervish uprising was a military and human disaster for the people of Northern Somalia as a whole. Well sorry, but I do not believe in falsifying history in order to protect the delicate nerves of clan-intoxicated simpletons.

So let me repeat the facts again, and watch the steam pour out of your filthy orifices.
The Sayyid abysmally failed in his attempt to chase the Brits out of Somaliland. He failed to win a single battle,(number of men killed, objectives achieved, land gained) or "liberate" even a remote village. In fact he spent most of the war either running or pillaging Somali nomadic hamlets. AND he lost the war. No argument. No excuses. No discussion.

You are right to suggest that the Dervishes were multi-clan, although all Northern. Ironically it was those very clans that rejoiced most when the Sayyid was defeated! A Somali National Hero indeed!

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Xoogsade

Monday, January 22, 2001 - 02:27 pm
None so blind as those that will not see

Drunken Galool once again honours us with his filthy presence and lets loose with his irrational anti-Somali tirades. His total foulness would not be so unbearable if at least his arguments and assumptions were even remotely girded in reality.

The Sayid a poor man of Allaah came back to his country and saw it controlled by foreigners and proceeded to fight against it. He may not have been succesful but only because time and chance conspired against him in that the Somali people had not had the chance to fully appreciate the foulness and humiliation of this colonial enterprise. So much so proud nomadic warriors resolved never to herd camels after the arbitrary and punitive seizures of livestock. Elders thrown into jail at the slightest resistance to draconian colonial measures. And that is to say of the savagery being perpetrated by the Italians in the South. The Sayid being the visionary that he was immediately sussed out the danger to our religion and noble way of life. They asked him to pay a landing fee after he disembarked from the sailing ship that brought him back from Mecca at which point he asked the filthy customs official "Who collected the landing fee from you when you landed in this land of mine?" and imperiously swept past dumbstruck infidel. Put Galool in the same situation and he would have paid the fee right away and as bonus he would have bent over for that faggoty Brit(They are all faggots and it is no wonder that Galool is in their country).

The Sayid because as result of his movement and harrasment was rolled up:

To:

Her Majesty's Principal Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs

London


Dated Hargeisa 20th August 1899

Political - Confidential:

....

I may explain that the Roman Catholic Mission consists of three members- two fathers and one Brother- and 69 Somali boys. The mission has been established for many years in Berbera, and though it was looked uppon with suspicion at first that feeling has worn off and many people are now well acustomed to the presence of the fathers and pay little atention to their educational proceedings.

.......


Signed H B M

Consul General

Somali Coast Protectorate


***********


We can clearly see the danger posed to our religion that the presence of proselytizing Christians was passing unremarked until the Great Man came on the scene. Within a year the British ordered the proselityzers out because of their fear that the Sayid would use this as a useful lever to gain the support of the wavering tribes of the Isaaq. In fact this letter to London was prompted by the Sayid's letter to the Sultan of the powerful Ciidagale tribe, Sultan Deria in which he sought Ciidagale support for his Jihaad pointing out the danger posed by the filthy Christian missionaries.

The British learned their lesson and never brought missionaries to the areas they controlled.

He may have been defeated in the end(And I will present a comprehensive analysis of the causes of the Sayid's eventual defeat at another time) but what is not deniable is the glorious way he fought the good fight to restore honour and dignity to our people as they were about to be ushered into that long night of colonial captivity.

Do not go gentle into that good night
His frail deeds might have danced in a green bay
But he raged and raged against the dying of the light of our honour and freedom

if I may paraphrase a loathsome drunk of an infidel.

The Great Master fought with all the resources and energy and learning and craft at his disposal and brought the the Famous Empire upon which the Sun never set to their knees and on the verge of running with their tails between their legs.

Long may you enjoy the Heavenly blessings and bounty that accrue to the Shahiid.


As for your claim that I am Somaliland supporter well that is patently absurd isn't it? If I am going to support a Land, it will be Darwiishland. I am not Issaaq and as a result can never feel at home in Somaliland. I don't trust and they sure as hell won't trust me. And Puntland? Malign Abdillaahi Yuusuf, the Killer? You must be joking! And let us not even mention Muuqadisho the slaughter house!

The point I am making is I only trust my fellow tribesmen and even then only implicitly. Let us all come back together after 50 years when (notice no ifs) things calm down and we have rebuilt our great country.

And when that is the case we will make sure that filthy gay assholes like Galool will not be allowed.

Neither will non-Muslims.

Liberals

Feminazis.

Men with earings

Women wearring pants
the list is long but you get the drift of it.

May Allaah give strength to all the true Somali patriots.

I am talking about the people in here like Xamaali and Dick and Ice-Man and Rasheed and Devils Love.

Down with the stooges and gaal-ass lickers like Galool and rpg7 and the rest of the cocksuckers

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RPG7

Monday, January 22, 2001 - 07:26 pm
Xoogsade

It is realy an coward act to be insulting me and this Galool man on the internet! Do you realise that all over the world Somalis as well as non Somalis read what you are writing??? we could respond but that would trash this good debate!

That being said, I would like to know what this Somaliland issue is all about??? I thought we were debating/disscusing the Mad Mullah, so where did the Somaliland discussion come in?????

I am a supporter of Somaliland and nobody will ask for your support Xoogsade, Somaliland borders are non-negotiable, blood was spilt to free that land and believe me blood will be spilt before one single inch is given away to anybody!!!

Galool

I tell you the same thing, keep the discussion on the topic which was the Mad Mullah. As I have stated to "Bodyguard" nobody will ask you or him about Somaliland, it is a choice of the majority of Somaliland. Blood has been sheed of heroes and innocent women and children and blood will be sheed of non-Isaaqs before one single inch of Somaliland soil is lost.

I quote SNM vice president Sheikh Madar 1991:

"We will have to be defeated to grounds before we give up Somaliland and I will not be living on that day"

Somaliland for Somalilanders!! Keep the discussion on the Mad Mullah! I am upset right now so i will write an other time!

Todays astonishing fact:

SNM fought against the second strongest army of Africa in the beginning only with Ak-47, as the war escalated the guerillas ambushed Tank divisions and captured many Tanks and other equipments. SNM also shoot down countless Mig29 jet fighters, one of the most famous shoot downs was the pilot that was still in his chair when he was shoot down lool.

Thee success of the SNM made Siyaad Barre say his famous statement:

"Waar Isaaq ma Qabiil mise Qaran waaye??""


Nabadgelyo!!!!!

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MAD MAC

Tuesday, January 23, 2001 - 12:02 am
Xamali
God damn you sound like a German!!! Somalia should be governed in accordance with the desires of its population, but no country has ever thrived as a xenophobic state with closed borders. Do you want to be another North Korea or Communist era Albania? Because that's what will happen. Are you living in Somalia right now? Becuase if you say that only Somalis can live in Somalia then the rest of that logic train means Somalis can't live anywhere else.

Xoogsade
If all Brits are faggots then faggots must be some real bad motherfuckers, because for a couple of centuries they dominated the world!!!

As for prostylitization, if no one can prostylitize in Somalia (other than Islam) then that means that no one can preach anything other than Anglican Christianity in England. And only Catholicism in Italy. Right??

I notice that the people who will be allowed to live in your Somalia are an ever shrinking circle of people. Again this is in violation of the Qur'an. You really don't read it do you? Islam professes tolerance of other faiths. Others may live in peace with Muslims. It's right there in the Qur'an. Dust yours off and check it out.

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MAD MAC

Thursday, January 25, 2001 - 03:04 am
Where did you guys go? Did you concede?

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Xoogsade

Friday, January 26, 2001 - 06:24 pm
Not a chance Mad Man(You have to be mad to be hanging out with Somalis all this time).

First of all the British are all faggots and everyone knows that(You have heard of the English vice, no?) As soon as the kid is a certain age all his mates in school start diddling him and even the schoolmaster. Same thing and even worse at their elite boarding schools(Eton, Harrow etc)

And when they go into the Armed forces more of the same. What did Churchill say about the only traditions in the Royal Navy are Sodomy, rum and the lash, loool.

They may not be the limp-wristed kind but they are for sure sick and perverted Island race.

As for this business about Anglican church in England and nothing else. Well you have religious freedom in this country. That is the way you guys decide to set up things in these countries of the west. Maybe it works maybe it don't. I personally think it does not becaause look at this shitt that happened in Canada the other day where two guys got married to each other as well two lesbians. Everyday of the week I am told to live by the rules the way they are in this country:

Homosexuality taught to our children

You can't discipline the children

You can't discipline your wife

You can't have religion taught in schools

etc etc.

That being the case why should you begrudge me if I devise a system of my own no matter how unreasonble it may seem to you. After all I have accepted many laws and rules that I find to be unreasonable, hateful, wrongheaded and even barbaric.

To each his own my friend. Besides it is not like I am denying you the most bounteous plot of land in the world. It is just that little dessicated corner of the world that was home to my grandfathers and I want it to remain a land populated by people that resemble those grandfathers and speak as they did in the language of the proud Somalis.

To each his own. To each his own way.

Ergo no western-polluted vile human excrement of man like Galool.

As for you Mad Man I have seen you express a desire to return to Somalia in one capacity or the other. You make like to read up on the history of a British colonial officer who married a Somali woman. His name was Smith immortalized in these lines from Darwiish Ismaaciil Mire's poem: "Isma oga Ismiidh iyo ninkii ayro foofsadaye". He spoke fluent Somali. He believed he had done well by the Somalis and Somalia. He came to visit Mogadishu in 1967 where he was shot down by an assailant in the area that was later to be the Dhagaxtuur monument. He forgot or perhaps never knew of "Godob". Many times you have boasted of your killing of Habar Digir. I don't confess to knowing a lot about them but I am sure they feel the Godob sentiments as keenly as any Somali. I seen you boast about the killing of Gidirs by you and the American army. Perhaps you should research:

The death of Smith and what occasioned it

The institution of Godob

And how these two things combined have relevance for you were you to return to Somalia.

RPG7:

You are a brain dead moron and any words I throw in your direction are wasted. You never seemed to have any problems with Galoool when he was wiping the floor with the good name of Somalia and Somalis but when all of a sudden he said somthing bad about your precious Somalilaan he is public enemy #1. Well sir I am a Somali if the destruction and defamation of the good name of Somalis does not move you in the slightest bit well then you and I are at variance and I can never be part of any enterprise that you support. If Somalia can be partitioned then Somaliland can also be partitioned, after all from the foregoing discussion we can clearly see we have nothing in common. You have no care about Somalis. You did not defend their good name. Then sir you are a foreigner and you can go to the parts of Somalia populated by like-minded people but for me I will throw in my lot with people who care about the identity of Somalia and will take offence when such name is insulted by Homosexual half-breed mongrel toads like Garoor.

Goodbye and good-riddance

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Devils_love

Saturday, January 27, 2001 - 04:56 am
Aloow .......Gaalada jabi....Aloow janada ka waraabi....ku wii u dhintay difaaca dalka iyo diintaba......Aloow soomaali kor ka dhig.....


Maxamed Cabdule Xasan iyo gabaygii caanka ahaa koofil


Adaa Koofilow jiitayaan, dunida joogayne
Adigaa jidkii lagugu wici jimicla'aaneede
Jahannama la geeyow haddaad aakhiro u jihato
Nimankii jannow kacay war bay jirin inshaalleye
Jameecooyinkii iyo haddaad, howhartii aragto
Sida Eebbahay kuu jirrabay mari jawaabteeda
Daraawiish jikaar nagama deyn tan iyo jeerkii dheh
Ingiriis jabyoo waxaa ku dhacay jac iyo baaruud dheh
Waxay noo janjuunteenba waa jibashadiinnii dheh
Jigta weerar bay goor barqaa nagu jiteeeyeen dheh
Anigana jikrey ila heleen shalay jihaadkii dheh
Jeeniga hortiisey rasaas, igaga joojeen dheh
Jiiraayadey ila dhaceen jilic afkoodii dheh
Siday kuugu jeexeen magliga jararacdii sheego
Billaawuhu siduu kuu jarjaray jiirarka u muuji
Nafjeclaysigii baan ku idhi jaallow iga daa dheh
Jaljalleecadii baa wadnaha jeeb ka soo ruqay dheh
Jeedaaladii baa indhuhu kor u jillaadmeen dheh
Jimic kagama helin tuugmadaan jiriyey ruuxii dheh
Markaan juuq idhaahdaba afkey iga jifeeyeen dheh
Dhaxaan jalaacaye dheg baan jalaq la ii siin dheh
Goortaan jarreerana gefoo nolol ka jaanqaaday
Sida janannadii hore tashigu igu jaguugnaa dheh
Taladii jinnigu ii hormaray jaasadeed helay dheh
Jiidaha xanuunka leh markii la igu jeeraarshey
Jibaadka iga soo baxay dadkii jiifka qaban waa dheh
Markay rubadddu jaw tidhi or bay iga ag jiibsheen dheh
Jidhkaygii bahal baa cunoo jiitay hilibkii dheh
Jurmidiyo baruurtii dhurwaa jugux ka siiyaa dheh
Jiljilladiyo seedaha tukay igaga jaadeen dheh
Haddaan lays jikaareyn tolkay laga jil roonaa dheh
Weligood waxaa lagu jaraa jilibdhig duullaan dheh

Daraawiishi waa jibindhow iyo jowga soo bixi dheh.

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Galool

Saturday, January 27, 2001 - 06:00 am
Xoogsade

You sure have anal problems! you talk from it and about it so much that any casual observer will be left in no doubt whatsoever that you are a dick-swallowing anus-obsessed queer! Of course Britain is the land of the faggots, that is why you chose to live there, you ••••-eating, shirt-lifting father-shagging rimming-addicted closet-queen.

If you had your brains in the right place, instead of up your over-used arse, you would have noticed that I don't hate Somalia or Somalis, or wipe anybody's name on the floor. All I ever said was that Sayyid, while a literary genius, was an incompetent military and political leader, and supported my claims with incontrovertible historical facts. How that makes me a Somali hater, I do not understand. On the contrary, my dislike for the Darawiish struggle stems from my respect for Somali life and dignity, something that seems to hold no value for the cranially-challenged clan-drunk queers like you. The Sayyid, like all of today's Warlords, murdered and looted poor, defenceless Somali civilians at will. Their sin? They failed to fight the war on his side. Remaining neutral and minding your own business was not considered an acceptable option! Ironically, while pea-brains like you plump for the Sayyid today because of clan-loyalty, not patriotism (who are you trying to fool Xoog?) those clans closest to him during his time actually despised him. You see the Sayyid was an Equal Opportunties murderer, and while reserving most of his hatred for the Iidoor clans who opposed him, he nevertheless never hesitated to kill and pillage the very clans that formed the backbone of his support. He so devastateded the Dhulbahanta, that this usually stoic clan was reduced to cursing the mother that bore him(one of their own) Note the Dhulbahanta lullaby of the time :
Arro (Sayyid's mother) May you lose your Firstborn; Arro May you never taste the sweetness of Milk again! There was widespread rejoicing across the land when he was defeated, disgraced and humiliated. He so alienated Somalis that no mainstream clan was prepared to shelter him, and he was forced to seek asylum from the Bantu farmers on the River Jubba. Remember this " Sanyartii Saancad bay noqotee sanweynta allow sabaalee" Thousands of Daaroods as well as Iidors chased him across the Nugaal and upto Galkayo on the day he had his Waterloo. They kept on taking pot-shots at him and his men till he reached Imey. That is how real people felt at the time, while some pampered idiots like you and Xammali cocooned in the comfort of western Europe and America today would have us believe that the sun shone out of Sayyid's backside!

It is the likes of you who are Somali-haters, since you have no concern whatsoever for their people's life and welfare. All that matters to you is your wretched clan's pride and its supposed place in some twisted little history.

Xammaali

I would welcome translated excerpts of the Sayyid's poetry. And since you mentioned it, yes, I am better than the Sayyid, Aideed, Shargudud, Abdulah Yusuf, Igal and all the others with Somali blood on their hands!

RPG7

While I have nothing against the Somali people who live in that part of the country, I nevertheless hope that the country should become united once again. However, I am against this being done through coercion ,and since the people of that region(most of them)want to remain seperate at this stage, I will leave them and P/land alone for a while, but the long-term strategy should be one of unity. And taking RPG7 against your own people is not such a good idea, although idiotic, stinking cunts like Xoog sure makes you feel like it!

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MAD MAC

Saturday, January 27, 2001 - 01:54 pm
Xoogsade
I have never heard of Godob, but I would assume that it means blood feud. If that's the case of course I've heard of it. Do you think I'm afraid of those people? Be serious. Do you think I plan to go back alone and unarmed?? I don't think so. The only people we were killing we people who were trying to kill us. Everyone who was there knows the deal. Sure there will be the close minded dick with a grudge. I don't plan on letting people like that tell me where in this world I can and can't go.

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Arawello

Sunday, January 28, 2001 - 06:24 am
MM,
I definetly agree with Xoogsade and I think he was honestly with you about the nature of the Somalis.
I understand you fell in love with the poeple and the place but you got to understand our culture as well. I mean the Somalis would not tale that as self defence even if you were a victim yourself. NOONE KNOWS THE DEAL. and that is not for some but it is for the majority.
I suggest you should find somewhere else to fell in love. the world is very wide. I do not think ' Godob' means blood feud. But I myself not too sure so will leave Xoogsade to explain it.


Xoogsade,

I agree in Britain the only evil thing that most tolarated among the politicians is ''H' and I think about the schoolmaster stuff, it is just one of the examples. I did all my GCSE's and A levels in Birmingham and Leeds and I know what is like.
BTW what does ayro mean?


Galool,

My cousin you got this anylises of the Sayid right. Though, disagree with you the usage of the word '' murderer'' for the Sayid. I think, as you anylised the guy was a young polititian who had ups and downs in his mission against the British colony.

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Hawd

Sunday, January 28, 2001 - 08:54 am
Salaan all,

To: Xoogsade, its azming how awlays the Dhulbahnate glorify the Mullas adventure of all pepole and acuse the Isaaq and Other Darood tribes of tresaon. The Dhulbahante suffered the most followed by the Habar Yoonis (Muuse Care , Muuse Ismaaciil) followed by the warsangali and Ogaadeen.

But unfortunatly up to this day the Dhulos believe on the same man who reduced them to a wondering bush men,. in 1913 after the death of Richard Corfield ,Major Muuse Faarax Habar Yoonis(Muuse Care) was called off from India , to lead his own camel corps "Guuto" against the Mulla.

Muuse Faarax Igre used the same tactics as the Mulla , he began to loot the loyal tribes of the Mulla. Mainly the above mentioned calns. Furthermore, he called on the Colonial goverment to arm the oppsing tirbes with a rifal and a pony.Bye the end of 1920 the Dhulbhante and warsangali and Ogaadeen, were the weakest tribed both in Nugaal region and in the Hawd.

In 1921 the mulla was defeated and chased out into the Oromo land,.No pepole rejoiced more then the Dhulbhante them slefs: Cali Aadan Dhuux was a refugee in Berbara he recited his poem that day:

Waa lagu digtaa duul haduu kuu darnaan jiraye
Bal dayaay waa kaas Wadaadki sii dabayshadaye.


The troops of Muuse Faarax Igre around 10,000 and Xaaji Waraabe around 8,000 were left armed . The British was not able to collect all the fire arms back. In 1923 The Habar Yoonis began to expand their grazing area in the Hawd and conqured a wide region Hara Doolo, 8 wells and a masiive graving zone. The Ogaadeen were soo weak it was joked around the Habar Yoonis, the names such as "Hadhuudh Daatay" and etc.. were refered to the Ogaadeen.The longest fued began due to the Mullas policies, and longest poetic comapact began due to the Mulla war and the subseqents caln warfare.

The GUBA poems began as result of Doolo conquest. Cali Dhuux a Dhulos poet one day arrived at Camuud Well one of the wells of Hara Doolo. Now in hands of the Habar Yoonis, when Cali Dhuux was refused water he recited the first poem to encourge the Ogaadeeens and remaind them of thier lost region and defeat, by appealing to the Drarood sentiment. Cali Dhuux

Doqonkii Ogaadeen ahaa Doolo laga qaadye
Loo diid Danood iyo haduu dagi lahaa ciide
........................................etc
Habar Yoonis bay uga durkeen dagaladoodiiye
dawdeedu waxay ku jirtaa dhamac rasaaseed oo daacad loo ride.

This chaines of poems were particpated by more then 15 poets :

1- Salaan Carabay (Habar Jeclo)
2- Cali Dhuux Adan(Dhulos)
3- Qamaan Bulxan (Ogaadeen)
4-Jaamac Xirsi Guleed(H.Yoonis)
5-Ismaaciil Cigaal Bulaale(H.Yoonis)
6-Maxmad Aadan Caws "Yawle" (H.Yoonis)
7-Maxamad Cumar Dage (Ogaadeen)
8-Qawdhan Ducaale (Ciidagale)
9-Samatar Baxnaan (dhulos)
10- Cilmi Carab (dhulos)
11- Xaaji Buraale Aw Cali
12-Mxamuud Nuur Fadal(H.Jeclo)
13- Xarbi Dheere (Ogaadeen)

These fueds both in terms of poems and war went on for 20 years or more. The Dhulbahante lost the Caynaba region and the Ogaadeen lost the Doolo region it was the roots of the civil war in the North 1983-1990.The Ogdeen and Dhulos were reminded of their old fueds with Garxajis and H.Jeclo by Aadan Gabyo and Axmed Dafle. Siyad Bare used this old historic feud to stay in power.

So xoogsade u might think the Mulla brought any beniffts to the somali politics based on emotion , but history is ot on your side.You might accuse me of being biast , but i dear u to proof me wrong.

Its about the time that this Mulla myth be but to rest. The man was a disastor on the somali secne.

bye

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MAD MAC

Sunday, January 28, 2001 - 11:12 pm
Xoogsade / Arawello
Understand that I have friends there as well as potential enemies. I plan to live in Jasira, which is dominated at the moment by the Abgal and Musa Sudi. I have big plans to help these people as they helped me before. Anyway, as I told Asad, I would rather die in Somalia than live anywhere else. My going back is not up for negotiation.

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Jeego

Tuesday, January 30, 2001 - 07:29 am
Galool

"" the Somalis were a decentralized people, held together by language and clan ties rather then by state structure of COERCION AND CONTROL?!!
The role of Somali language has been particularly striking. no society in Africa is as deeply wedded to poetry and verse as the Somali, and no society (World)has evolved as elaborate a culture of verbal composition and eloquence, a ritual use of the Muse, as these Nomads have done. Their greatest hero of the twentieth century was MUHAMED ABDILE HASSAN. whom the British designed as the Mad Mulah. He fought the British and Italians with great CUNNING and DEXTERITY......

Most other African Countries are colonially created states in search of a sense of nationhood. the Somali, by contrast, are a pre-colonial nation in search of a unified post-colonial state. Most African countries are diverse people in search of a shared national identity. The Somali are already a people with national identity in search of territorial unification..""" by An African Author the well respected Scholar and writer a Kenyan Ali A. Mazrui

We must not Mix the man and Movement and I
think the man (MM) was poor administrator and tyrant who wanted to liberate his people from colonization.

According to the Old Somalis MM started fine first and appealed to a lot of Somalis who had different background and Tribe. Naturally Most Somalis shared his Nationalism and supported him wholeheartedly. as his repution and Power increased MM become corrupted leader and started to call himself SAYID and same time started inquisitions (waa Xujoowday).

According to the Old somalis MM was first Somali Dictator. If anyone had different Idea then him was simply murdered. He prohibited people to exercise their Mind he wanted everyone to flow what he called THE WAY (Dariiqada) like a sheep. naturaly Most Somalis resented him for this change of policy as people started to leave The WaY (DARIIQADA) MM become desperate and committed first recorded genocide in Somali History against WOMAN and Children, their only crime was they belonged Men who left the The Way (DARIIQADA)or MM saw them treat.

In the Mean time MM never left his mission of driving the colonizers out of the country and sometime I believe MM was very successfully, at least halting the colonization of Somalia as whole, after his death all Somalia was colonized. as I say before MM failed to develop or implement system of government or Administration that could succeed or continue the struggle of Somali people against the Imperialist as all the movements were under his command.

sadly after his death the Movement dead with Him as he never left anyone to succeed Him. Lot of Somalis fought against MM but no one sought slave Master or wanted to be under White mans Command to fight except the CAMEL CORPS and their leader Igare. To the World and Somalis they will always remain Coward Traitors who licked the Fagots boots. I mean Forever and ever, no matter how some people my try to paint them different color.....

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Jeego

Tuesday, January 30, 2001 - 07:31 am
"" the Somalis were a decentralized people, held together by language and clan ties rather then by state structure of COERCION AND CONTROL?!!
The role of Somali language has been particularly striking. no society in Africa is as deeply wedded to poetry and verse as the Somali, and no society (World)has evolved as elaborate a culture of verbal composition and eloquence, a ritual use of the Muse, as these Nomads have done. Their greatest hero of the twentieth century was MUHAMED ABDILE HASSAN. whom the British designed as the Mad Mulah. He fought the British and Italians with great CUNNING and DEXTERITY......

Most other African Countries are colonially created states in search of a sense of nationhood. the Somali, by contrast, are a pre-colonial nation in search of a unified post-colonial state. Most African countries are diverse people in search of a shared national identity. The Somali are already a people with national identity in search of territorial unification..""" by An African Author the well respected Scholar and writer a Kenyan Ali A. Mazrui

We must not Mix the man and Movement and I
think the man (MM) was poor administrator and tyrant who wanted to liberate his people from colonization.

According to the Old Somalis MM started fine first and appealed to a lot of Somalis who had different background and Tribe. Naturally Most Somalis shared his Nationalism and supported him wholeheartedly. as his repution and Power increased MM become corrupted leader and started to call himself SAYID and same time started inquisitions (waa Xujoowday).

According to the Old somalis MM was first Somali Dictator. If anyone had different Idea then him was simply murdered. He prohibited people to exercise their Mind he wanted everyone to flow what he called THE WAY (Dariiqada) like a sheep. naturaly Most Somalis resented him for this change of policy as people started to leave The WaY (DARIIQADA) MM become desperate and committed first recorded genocide in Somali History against WOMAN and Children, their only crime was they belonged Men who left the The Way (DARIIQADA)or MM saw them treat.

In the Mean time MM never left his mission of driving the colonizers out of the country and sometime I believe MM was very successfully, at least halting the colonization of Somalia as whole, after his death all Somalia was colonized. as I say before MM failed to develop or implement system of government or Administration that could succeed or continue the struggle of Somali people against the Imperialist as all the movements were under his command.

sadly after his death the Movement dead with Him as he never left anyone to succeed Him. Lot of Somalis fought against MM but no one sought slave Master or wanted to be under White mans Command to fight except the CAMEL CORPS and their leader Igare. To the World and Somalis they will always remain Coward Traitors who licked the Fagots boots. I mean Forever and ever, no matter how some people my try to paint them different color.....

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Jeego

Tuesday, January 30, 2001 - 07:53 pm
"" The Somali people today are an emphatic affirmation that it is possible for a sophicated culture to thrive without structures of the state control. that a culture of poetry can mature without Kings and Queens. that Nomadism and pastoralism can constitute an impressive CIVILISATION."" ALI A. MAZRUI

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Galool

Wednesday, January 31, 2001 - 12:10 pm
MM

Are you sure? 'cause I would rather live in the civilized, tolerant, rich and peaceful USA rather than that nasty, violent, and god-for-saken place they call Somalia. And I am not alone! Everyone else on this Forum agrees with me since they all live here!

The gauntlet is well and truly thrown. Let them comment. (Insults are welcome, as long as you are man enough to take them!) HYPOCRITES!

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Jeego

Wednesday, January 31, 2001 - 08:04 pm
Galool

I was right about You, You just can't stand Somali Name. whenever somebody exposes your blind hatred towards Somali people. You start throwing fake bombs to hide your true intentions rather then challenge the facts. wether you like it or not, are rather be in Somalia then be materialistic, fattened BIGS who can't tell the difference from right and wrong.

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Anon

Thursday, February 01, 2001 - 11:15 am
Galool lives in the US not the UK?

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Galool

Sunday, February 04, 2001 - 12:54 pm
Jeego

OK, I was trying to wind-up some people, and judging by measly response, not many fell for it! But the general point is valid, and you have you admit it Jeego. We all fulminate against the morally corrupt West but we are happy to chew the fat here. That is hypocritical. How many of us will pack their bags and proudly head for home if they suddenly receive a deportation order from the authorities here? I guess not many.

Now I firmly believe that people should live wherever they want, but that includes Somalia as well as America and Europe. My posting was designed to challenge those comatose neanderthals like Xoog who say that only some people(of their choice!) will be allowed to live in Somalia, while they (the Neanos) stuff their moronic faces with Uncle Sam's riches! Now that is what I call Hypocrisy and you call Somali-bashing? How reasonable!

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Jeego

Monday, February 05, 2001 - 02:08 am
Galool..lol.."How many of us will pack their bags and proudly head for home if they suddenly receive a deportation order from the authorities here?"

Well not many any of us (including myselfe) would be happily heading home for different reasons. remember Your Somali as you stated before you owe everthing to Somalia and its people then be proud of what your. of course nothing is wrong with constructive criticism of your people and country. what I don't understand is, for some reason you go your way to shame and ridicule The Somalis.

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Galool

Monday, February 05, 2001 - 09:45 am
Jeego

Thanks for your honesty. You manfully accepted the notion that it is OK to constructively criticize what needs to be critized, and to me that means every aspect of human(and therefore Somali)behaviour including and particularly so Nationalism, chauvinism and clannism.

However, you qualified your admission with an unwarranted accusation.

Would you please give examples of where I "ridiculed and shamed" Somalia? Are saying that criticizing the Sayyid and objecting to bigotry against other races is somehow tantamount to shaming the Nation?

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Xoogsade

Sunday, February 18, 2001 - 01:02 pm
Faggot boy Galool:

You cannot wind anyone because we know that you are white man's bitch. I say a bitch because you sir act like a woman in that females submit and you sir have been broken in by whitey. It hurts me that a Somali man can act like that but I pray as consolation that one day it will be revealed that you are a half-breed or some kind of mongrel with bad blood. Then we will know that you are one half polluted foreign sewage. And by logic we will know that your Somali half is garbage because only filthy, unworthy, self-hating, lowliest of the low Somalis go after foreigners and debase themselves that way. Foulness begets more foulness. the progeny of Xaaraan cannot be xallaal obviously. So you can •••• right offf you cocksucking homosexual.

Hawd:

The leaps of logic you make are so astounding that I am utterly at a loss where to begin.

You are blaming the Sayid for the actions of colonialists who came into Somalia furthering their imperial designs? Great Britain came to Somalia and tried to rule that country. Sayid Maxamed said get out my country because you sir are a foreigner and your presence is polluting to my culture and religion. They wanted to control the comings and goings of the areas they controlled unlike earlier Muslims who ran business interests along the coast. They were our coreligionist and we had a symbiotic relationship with them. The British on the other hand wanted to run the like it was the port of Dover. Well Sayid Maxamed said to hell with you, you can't do this because this is my land? What is wrong with that?

The problem came when other superpowers who couldn't care less about Somalia but who could not pass up an opportunity to make up life difficult for Britain stepped into the breech? Germany, France initially, and Turkey were willing to arm the Darwiish armies. And the British armed Somalis loyal to them.

So that the whole country was awash with arms and the brief skirmishes of old became more bloody.

The British never cared about any faction of Somalis. As the saying goes: We have no permanent friends, just permanent interests. Sayid Maxamed the visionary that he was knew this danger and how they cannot be trusted:

DAWO LAGAMA HELO GAAL HADDAAD DAAWO DHIGATAANE
Waa idin dagaayaa kufrigaad u debcaysaane
Dirhamkuu idiin qubahayaad dib u go'aysaane

Marka hore dabkuu idinka dhigi dumar sidiisiiye
Marka xigana daabaqada ayuu idin dareensiine
Marka xiga dhulkuu idinku odhan duunyo dhaafsade

Kolka xiga dushuu idinka raran sida dameeraaye
Kol haddaan dushii Adari iyo Iimey dacal dhaafey
Maxaad igaga digataan beruu siin la soo degiye


Now when you talk about the Short-sighted Cali Dhuux I really have to smile at your silliness. You tell me that he issued that call to arms at one of the Doollo wells, Wardheer to be exact and of course you know under whose sovereignty that particular peice of territory is under? And who gave it to them? The British that is who despite all their assurances to the Somali elders and negotiators who were going to the UN to broker a Unified Somali trusteeship.

remember this?
DAWO LAGAMA HELO GAAL HADDAAD DAAWO DHIGATAANE


Cali Dhuux(mr Shortsightiedness) was chafing under Issaaq pressure and was seeking help to get out of that box. It never occured to him that he was like a rat in cage fighting with other rats about who owns what corner of the cage. The British had them all caged and it never occured to all these fools until years and years later to fight the infidels instead of themselves.

They of course came to realise this only later when the other part of the Sayid's prediction came to pass:

Marka hore dabkuu idinka dhigi dumar sidiisiiye
Marka xigana daabaqada ayuu idin dareensiine
Kolka xiga dushuu idinka raran sida dameeraaye

Sheekh Bashiir fought against him and was gunned down for his troubles.

It became so bad the total domination and humiliation of the once proud and free Somali man that Ismaaciil Mire once composed a poem that he never again raise camel livestock after the British made it official policy to raid the camels of a lineage if even one member of that lineage did something wrong. No justice, no discussion, nothing.

The only time Somalis set aside their tribal differences was at the height of colonial power when they realised the extent of the evil posed by foreigners and the recognized the utter humiliation of their position. Normal people needed 40 or 50 years to see this. The Sayid with his powerful cognitive acuity(witness his poetry) needed the few seconds he spent at the port of Berbera disembarking to see where things were headed.

Somalia's problem was and is the opportunism and shortsightedness of people like Cali Dhuux who cannot see the forest for the trees. Take the example of this chap RPG7 who never took exception to Galool's hateful tirades against Somalis. That is until Galool attacked Soamliland and by inference the Issaaq tribe and their aspirations. The Sayid didn't cause the problems of today. Somali mentality caused the problem.

No Somali stood his ground and denounced Siyaad Barre for killing 13 sheikhs for their devotion to the Book of Allaah. Siyaad Barre brought the equality of women and men. We took it calmly and in our stride. He brought Socialism and collectivism to our land where such things are alien. No protest. He cracked down on the freedoms we Somalis have taken for granted hundreds upon hudred years. No peep. Until some tribes felt hard done by and they took to insurgency. Communism and the destruction of our faith do not bring people to a froth but harms inflicted on their tribe do.

My friend your diagnosis is very poor.

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