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     | Tuesday, December 26, 2000 - 01:10 pm Dear Readers,,, Do you sometimes ask, what is reality and what is mere surface appearance? Is this material thing real? Is the real only what is physical,material,and tangible? And what about your own reality? Are you a body, a material organism which avoids pain and seeks pleasure, a collection of atoms programmed to grow,mature, and to self-destruct, a product of the genetic material inherited from the past? But if you refuse to regard yourself as a material body, then what kind of reality do you have? Do you sometimes ask, what can we know? Is there any truth that we can believe? Is a statement true only if it is based on what your senses tell you, on what you can see or touch? But is there any guarentee that what we observe by our senses can establish the truth about the world? Do you sometimes ask , why i should be moral? Do you often notice that among the people you know the righteous and good people seem to suffer all kinds of grief, that their lives are lived in frustration and despair, and that often it is the selfish and the cheats who are prosperous and happy?Why not,then live the playful life , in which pleasure is the highest good---the life of pleasurable indulgence in food and drink and sex and drugs and sleep and all the tiltillations of the body that can be produced? But if the life of pleasure cannot be defended as ultimately good,, then do you ask what after all is ultimately good, worth living for,worth fighting for? What, if anything, can be said at the present time to be right or wrong,,, The questions will never end as they unfold in our own eyes,however,the main reason why i posted this message is to invoke your feelings and thoughts and see the world as it is,,,What are the ultimate qualities that we live for? whay do we struggle every day? and what is the end? Faisal Abdi I f you enjoy philosophical discussions,,you are welcome to join me for further discussions.. Kaafiyo@telusplanet.net feysalabdi@yahoo.com
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| | Tuesday, December 26, 2000 - 01:13 pm i see dead people!DuH
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| | Tuesday, December 26, 2000 - 08:30 pm lucky for you am in too philosophy. I doubt if you are somali cause we don't ask this questions since we know the answers. I think you're an outsider. Anyways i'll answer your question. The only reality is the hereafter cause it's eternal. This world is not the real reality cause it's temporaly. When you die you're in another reality or dimension. Our world is three dimensional (length, width, height). Other dimensions are not impossible, cause mathematically they are infinitely other dimensios. Therefore, this world is not the real reality. We as human beings are mortal. Death is the only certainty in life. We are a material substance made out of Allah's will. We are subject to HIS will and laws. The laws of physics apply to us just as they apply to everything in the universe. From a muslim perspective you can't philosophize or study science without the religion aspect, which is to rationally apply our human faculty WITH the Quran. For example, the Quran is a scientific document as much as it's a Holy scripture. The Quran states that the universe is continually expanding; recently astronomers discovered this fact. The Quran states that we're made of a leech like clot. This is DNA and embrology. Imagine that. The Quran states that we're made in the womb in three stages. This was discovered just 40 yrs ago. Imagine that. The Quran states that universe is created for a purpose and everything follows a writen pattern or law, like the sun. This is the sun's orbit. Imagine that. There are countless things mentioned in the Holy Quran that I coundn't even be able to put here. This is a document that even JEWS and CHRISTIANS admit themselves that is divine. My brother if you want to philosophize study the Holy Quran. If you want to study science study the Holy Quran. I have read Kant, Descartes, Marx, Thomas, Plato, Aristotle, Socrates, Nietzsche, Hegel etc. They all had great minds and great theories but they missed the point. How could you try to explain the world, universe, and human beings and everything else without relating or going back to the creator of all this things? You can't. I am not trying to preach here but I hope you got the point. The arabs became great in everything they did from the 6th century to 13th century cause of the religion. They went to the Quran first, then they went to nature and tried to find out if it's was true or not. That's why they became great in medicine to astronomy and including philosophy. while Europe was in the dark ages, muslims were the greatest scientists around the world. I bet you didn't know that the islamic civilization had great philosophers. Their works are collecting dust in great libraries around the world. I wonder why. I hope I have answered your question. Let me know what you think. Peace out Ambros
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| | Wednesday, December 27, 2000 - 09:02 am Ambros, That was great piece. but guess what! i think it would have been better if you didn't religionize the topic and would have used plain logic instead. By religionizing the topic, you are silencing Faisal and leaving him wit no much choice left but to agree with you. Amadeou
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| | Wednesday, December 27, 2000 - 09:37 am Well said ambros. Well said. Philosophy = Wisdom = Allah's words in the Quran.
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| | Wednesday, December 27, 2000 - 11:53 am Ambros Thx for your point,,,however what you missed is really very clear,,,you forced me to keep my mouth shut because of your religious stand which wasnt what i have argued,,,,as you are now within the defence of religion,i guess the best policy is to say nothing about that subject,, thx,,,,,
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| | Wednesday, December 27, 2000 - 12:07 pm Ambros again let me hit the nail on the head--philossophy is in the library shelves earning nothing but dust,,,i agree with you because it is a road less travelled by the weak,,for philosophy proved to minkind that by proping deeper into our existence, we are likely to discover contradictions and experience a different mental attitude entirely different from the one we had,,,,Philosophy questions your beliefs,,particularly moral values,,,,,, And your suggestion that i am an outsider,,ie..not somali is totaly wrong,,i am somalian,,,secondly your sweeping generalizations arent true... I cant continue further than this as you have created an impasse by putting yourself under the defence of religion .... logical reasonning ........
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| | Wednesday, December 27, 2000 - 01:33 pm well done AMBROS!! ALL IN THIS WORLD IS relatively temporary. I would like to shed some light in regard of seeking the truth. The absolute not relative truth. No one is compelled to accept the Truth, but it is certainly a shame upon the human intellect when a person is not even interested in finding out what the Truth is! Islam teaches that our Creator has given human beings the faculty of reason. Therefore, it is incumbent upon them to reason things out objectively and systematically for themselves to ponder, to question and to reflect. Nobody should press you to make a hasty decision to accept any of the teachings of Islam, for Islam teaches that human beings should be given the freedom to choose. Even when a person is faced with the Truth, there is no compulsion upon him/her to embrace it. But before you begin to form an opinion ask yourself whether your existing knowledge is thorough enough. Ask yourself whether that knowledge has been obtained through third party sources who themselves have probably been exposed to only random glimpses and have yet to reason out objectively and systematically themselves. Is it fair enough that one should form an opinion about the taste of a particular dish just by a mere hearsay from others who may themselves have not necessarily tasted the dish yet? Similarly you should find out for yourself about truth from reliable sources and not only taste it, but rather digest it very well before you form an opinion of it. That would be an intellectual approach to the Truth. In making your next move to the Truth, Islam continually reassures you that your rights to freedom of choice and freedom to use that God-given faculty of thought and reason will be respected, for everyone has that individual will. No one else can take away that will and force you to submit to the will of our Creator, you have to find out and make that decision yourself! May your intellectual journey towards the truth be a pleasant and fruitful one.
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| | Wednesday, December 27, 2000 - 02:23 pm Faisal, Does philosophy exist? Philosophy can summerized by one of your lines " Is statement true only if it is based on what your senses tell you, or what you can see or touch? But is there any guarentee that what we observe by our senses can establish the truth about the world? Do you know the man who was the first to argue that knowledge of something can only be achieved through our senses, a concept which is reflected by the first part of the quote? He was the Thirteenth century Hanbali jurist sheikhul Islam Taqi Din Ibn Taymiyyah. He was not only the father of impericism, he, along with sufi master Abu Hamid al-Ghazali demolished philosophy. the second part of the quote reflects not only the incoherence of philosophy, but also reveals the bait of philosophy where ignorant people are easily mislead. This is what philosophy says if sometimes we cannot use our senses in order to know particular thing, you need to trust us, we will invent certian definitions, and accurately we will capture that thing for you people, who do not see it. Remember trust us. I might change mind if a philosopher can tell me who is standing behind certain wall. He will say, but we are still using our senses, I will say why don't you use your definitions now. Listen people, true knowledge belongs to Islam, by 14 century Islam was brought to perfection. If you guys need other persuation: 1.Reason alone does not lead one to true knowledge 2.Philosopher ideas cannot be separted from their class,race, their hatred to religion. 3. Islam demolished philosophy, Ask yourself why?
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| | Wednesday, December 27, 2000 - 04:14 pm Durgal Very interesting point, indeed.....Why do ppl believe that Islam and Philosophy go against each other??simply because philosophy goes beyond the foundations of religion by asking questions that religion can not resolve...that is why islam and philosophy are always two point on the same line yet far apart from each other....I believe that everything on earth depends on our natural perception which Allah bestowed on us,,,,However what is most astonishing is the fact that who ever raises any philosophical inquiry is going to face the wrath of the people.... Can you imagine a world in which nobody any longer asked the philosophical questions, nobody was philosophical? It would be a world in which nobody penetrated below the facts of everyday life to think about what is real, true, valuable, just, and meaningful in human life. It would be a world of mechanical men, women, and children moving among physical objects, a world in which we would have become hollow men going through meaningless motions and our speach would be empty chatter. Nothing would be questioned because it would have become poinless and hopeless to question anything anymore. It is of fundamental importance to raise these questions and to answer them in the way they do. But to ignore the whole issue and make sweeping generalizations on the basis of religious conviction is to deny the truth....to surface!!!
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| | Wednesday, December 27, 2000 - 04:42 pm Faisal Abdi are you familar with the writings by Muslim Philosphers or historical facts discussing the development of Philosophy in non Western countries. - Abu Ya'qub al-Kindi, who among other issues wrote about the rapport between reason and revelation; the meaning of the intellect and the relationship between philosphy and science. - Abu Nasr al-Farabi, in addition to other writings, he wrote a large number of treatise on logic, commenting upon all the logical works of Aristotle. - Abu Hasan Al Amiri, who wrote about islamic philosophy. He also wrote a book on Ethics; "On Happiness and Making Happy" _ Abu Ali Ibn Sina , I am sure you know this master philospher-scientist. His book , "The Book of Healing" is considered to be the largest philosphical encylopedia ever written by a single person. The book includes not only philosphy but also logic, the natural sciences and mathematics. He also wrote "Directives and Remarks" in which he points to the tenets of his "Oriental Philosphy" A school of philosphy which he based more upon intuition than the use of reason alone. - Al-Ghazzalli, who was against the early philosphers (or Peripatetic Philosphy). He maintained that the afore-mentioned philosphers held views against Islam on 3 points; 1. the creation of the world from nothing; 2. God's knowledge of particulars and 3. Bodily resurrection. He summarized the views of the peripatetic philosphers in his book the "Purposes of the Philosphers" and then criticized them in his book Tahafut al-Falasifah - Ibn Bajjah wrote "Regimen of the Solitary" he wrote about the perfect society resulting from inner perfection of individuals within that society. There are so many other Islamic Philosphers who discussed all the questions raised by you (more on this later....) Faisal, incase you are wondering why I am listing the above philophers; it is because I am flabergasted by your comment and I quote:- "I can't continue further than this as you have created an impasse by putting yourself under the defence of religion ....logical reasonning...." WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT HERE EXACTLY?????? Please enlighten me less I jump to a conclusion! Eid mubaarak.
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| | Wednesday, December 27, 2000 - 07:17 pm xaali I appreciate your directives and indeed i have read a couple of them...they are excellent work of philosophy,,,but... A mere work of philosophy--the production of large volumes of philosophical issues which are not only practical but also inapplicable to the present day reality--doesnt qualify the status of philsophy. Nevetheless,the main issue is::::Philosophy can go far beyond the superficial reality in which we live in the present day..Through philosophy,mankind is able to discover the truth in its pure nature... Yet, when a philosophical question is posed,the responses are only appeals to religion where one justifies his opposition to certain philosophical findings solely on the basis of religion... Do you think,xaali,of yourself as having a particular kind of philosophy because you are a somali or american or european, or because you are a woman. Does belonging to a particular social group affect the philosophy one has? Do different social groups give rise to different philosophical outlooks on the world, different ways of perceiving reality? It is shocking to see ppl appealing to non-universal religious principles in justification of their opposition to philosophical inquiries that go beyond their belifs... In your case,,xaali,,there is no any moral authority above religion even if there exists areas of doubt where religion doesnt say anything at all.. Xaali,,your approach to philosophy has its source in religion.. While much of what you said are questionable, yet it appears from where you are heading to, that religion is the ultimate overrider of philosophical findings... Finally, Xaali,,when we entertain any suspicion over something--including religious principles,,are we not justified to enquire, and cross into uncertainity in order to discover the cetain ,,,truth.? Or, shouldnt we look no further? Should we have to leave everything just because that thing goes against religious principles?????
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| | Friday, December 29, 2000 - 09:42 am Xaali i am waiting your response with high anticipation lol eid mubaarak
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| | Friday, December 29, 2000 - 10:49 am salam alaykum Hi faisal Philosophy is merely an academic subject that can be addressed within Islam. Could you please post your age and academic qualifications in your next posting. Whats is it all about? why are we here? what is real? Morality? You claim that good people are unhappy and frustraated and bad people are happy and successfull!? As you should know all these points you raised are addressed in Islam. The theory of the big bang is flawed, in that it tells us the universe as we know it today resulted from the big bang. Okay, what went bang? And who created that very thing that went bang? As you know your personality and your own experiences past and present and your education have inspired you to raise this topic. And ultimately you might gain from this exchange. So please tell us more about yourself. age, where you live , where you educated, do you come from a religious family, have you yourself finished the Quran. I think you got my point. salam alaykum Nin Weyn
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| | Friday, December 29, 2000 - 11:29 am THIS MESSAGE IS FOR THOSE WHO MISUNDERSTOOD ME ESPECIALLY FAISAL AM ASKING EVERYBODY NOT TO STOP PHILOSOPHIZING I don't mean to create an impasse by putting myself under the defense of islam. If I did, then am sorry. First, I said that muslims philosopher's works are collecting dust in great libraries around the world, not christians or atheist philosophers. The kufr are trying to indoctrinate us with their philosophies, and that's why we study them. Otherwise if they cared for philosophy without any bias, they would have tought all the great philosophers of islam and the east (China). I brought the subject of islam to the forefront not to create an impasse, but to look at philosophy from a different angle or with different eyes. Philosophy and islam do not have to contradict one another, but if used correctly by induction and deduction with the scientific method it can be a great aid to islam. Now enough said and lets start to philosophize. This question is for everybody out there. Who do you think is the greatest philosopher of all time? NO INSULTS PLEASE P.S. Faisal I apologize. I was wrong.
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| | Friday, December 29, 2000 - 12:23 pm salam alaykum, Ambros YOu have changed your position. why?????????
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| | Friday, December 29, 2000 - 12:43 pm NINWEYN No need to dig deeper into our personal lives,,anyway,,i am obliged to answer your questions regardless of their personal nature My profile Age: 26 qualification: currently doing my fourth year toward JD-LAW AND PHILOSOPHY at Calgery University in Canada;;;;;;;JD=JOINT DEGREE Religious bacground: Strong My Location: Calgery,Alberta I hope these are what you asked me...
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| | Friday, December 29, 2000 - 02:10 pm Fiasal, you are wrong All of the relevent questions, whether Allah exist or not were supremely answered by the great thinkers of Islam. The questions is how much you people know or read it. I suggest you to study carefully what Islam has to offer and say in all these philosophical questions. If you are not convinced after that then you may have the right to rely on philosophy. It is extremely stupid to say philosophy has answer to what religion does not. If you are truely seeking the Truth I can refer to some classic Muslim works which came out the supreme collusion between philosophy and Islam. Until then it is premature to revive the ever dead subject of Philosophy
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| | Friday, December 29, 2000 - 05:22 pm durgal I agree with you ,,,yes the great islamic philosophers answered all these philosophical questions,,,,,but,,,they answered their questions in the light of the revelation--quran,,,that was their starting point,,,they philosophised everything basing everything and evaluating everything in the light of the principles of quran,,,, while that is commendable,,it follows that their philosophy is unquestionable, since their findings is based on islamic principles.... Look here we arent questioning islam here nor are we questioning anything that has to do with religion,,the reality is """"the discussion is going into the wrong direction,,let us pause,,and look back and see what we have so far achieved,,let us go back to what each of us said at the beggining and se what resolutions we achieved so far,,, eid mubaarak to all the muslims around the world and top my fellow somali brothers and sisters in and out of the country,,
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| | Friday, December 29, 2000 - 06:46 pm My Indestructible Questins Of Philosophy.. . Put a GUM! in it Freak!
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| | Saturday, December 30, 2000 - 12:04 am Hebel You are really parking like a dog eid mubarak
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| | Saturday, December 30, 2000 - 09:54 am To ALL YE HAPPY NEW YEAR
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| | Saturday, December 30, 2000 - 11:37 pm FAISAL HI FAISAL, I AM REALLY IMPRESSED BY YOUR INTELLIGENCE AND BELIEVE ME I HAVENT SEEN A SOMALI WITH SUCH A CLEAR MIND,,THE FACT IS HOWEVER, THESE SOMALIS CAN NOT REASON NOR CAN THEY UNDERSTAND YOUR POINT,,YOU ARE AN ACADEMIC I BELIEVE AND THESE GUYS DONT UNDERSTAND ACADEMICIANS LANGUAGE,,YET,,THE FEW OF US REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR PROPING QUESTIONS KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK..
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| | Sunday, December 31, 2000 - 03:14 am Hebel well done!
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| | Sunday, December 31, 2000 - 03:52 am Faisal I really think you are great guy and all but could you try and get together with Estrella please. I think she is brilliant and I would recommend you to read some of her comments. I am not saying this in a bad way believe me I am just interested in you two. so let me now what you say about the matter
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| | Sunday, December 31, 2000 - 10:16 am Faisal Abdi...The new Pentium IV. . . 2000MHZ Ladies and Germs.
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| | Sunday, December 31, 2000 - 10:28 am Jama thx ,,for your interest,,however you havent told us your plan,,lol// happy new year
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| | Tuesday, January 02, 2001 - 08:44 am to faisal, from reading your messages we have noticed that you have a clear understanding regarding philosophers and their ideas. however, with all your academic knowledge it seems that you have been suffering from a lack of belonging, believe and therefore confused and wondering the PURPOSE OF LIFE. ps: if you further want to discuss any philosophical ideas particularly PLATO or even ARISTOTLE than e-mail us on either md_earthangle21@hotmail.com or hibs_2g@hotmail.com
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| | Tuesday, January 02, 2001 - 09:47 am to faisal abdi: u talk about finding the truth... first thing is first...every thing has its basics...u can't skip the basics and go into the advance just like that...the basics of the TRUTH that u r talking about is that is that everyone is going to die and everyone will be raised and judged according to their deeds...u can't skip this and jump into the advanced stuff...that is what all the kufar philosophers have done and that is the reason why they all contradicted each other...u name them Aristotle, Plato, Anximander, Pythagaros, Copernicus just tell me any two that agreed with each other...and the reason for that is they jumped from the basic truth to some very advanced stuff...u can choose to be like them and say that u r looking for the truth...and trust me you won't come up with anything by ignoring the basics... the other thing is that u were always telling ppl that your topic is about philosophy and not religion...that sounds like a reasonable thing to the non-muslims but not to the muslims...only the non-believers talk like that...and the reason why they say that is because their religion doesn't solve anything...infact it was put together by ppl who never saw jesus...and it is full of so many contradictions...there r 33,000 bibles today...so don't be surprised at them when they say "take the religion out of it"...they have a good reason to say that...religoin is like once a week thing for them...but for us it is a way of life...we muslims, we have a book that answers everything in life and in it Allah has challenged ppl to find a single contradiction in it...and for 1400 years ppl have been looking for contradictions and they couldn't have find any...so we as muslims "can't say take the religion out of the argument"...it sounds dumb... there is no truth without this book...that is like telling some one to solve a calculus problem without him knowing how to differentiate... an example of one of the philosophers who ignored the truth is Darwin...u familiar with his theory...most of the philosophers r like that...their argument has no base...and for years to come they will keep on contradicting and proving each other wrong... u say that u r majoring in philosophy...i got one advice for u: don't ignore the basics...it is good for u in this world and in the hereafter...and pls don't say to anyone to take the religion out of it...as i have proved to u, U CAN'T IGNORE THE BASICS...
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| | Tuesday, January 02, 2001 - 10:30 am wisdon spare us your fake self expressed wisdon of yours.NOBODY is interested. Talk about the Qaat you chew,atleast you have experience in that subject.retarded.
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| | Monday, January 08, 2001 - 06:43 pm IT'S ME AGAIN wisdom keep up the good work. Faisal Abdi what's up. Keep up the good work also, but be carefully please. I say this because our religion (ISLAM) forbids us to ask certain questions without any signs from the Quran. So, unless the Quran gives us a clue or a sign about something, we have to refrain from talking about it. For example, we know there are angels and ALLAH says HE made of light. We are not allowed to dig any further on this subject. Some people have gone astray by trying to comment on which light the Angels are made from. This is just an axample. When we philosophize we should be carefull. Faisal I understand what your going through. Every human being goes through it sometime when they try to understand their purpose on this world and the lack of spirituality in the western life. I am sorry I have to repeat this, but the spirituality aspect of our lives can only be filled with religion; and since you're a muslim Faisal, you know where to start. Now Faisal you didn't answer my question before when I asked you who's the greatest philosopher of all time. I am not a preacher. No insults please peace out
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| | Monday, January 08, 2001 - 08:13 pm Ambros A/caleekum Thank you for your brotherly advice , it is well taken, as to your suggestion that we refrain from delving into the world of the unknown in which we know nothing about,like the angels as you said, well, that too is acceptable,for we are likely to commit major unforgivable sins in the sight of Allah... As to the greatest Philosopher ever in the History of Minkind,,,Rasuululah,s.a.w... I hope that best answers your question.... And once again, happy new year.. W/salaaam
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| | Monday, January 08, 2001 - 08:24 pm Ambros a/caleekum I have to admit that somehow there ought to be compromise between one's burning desire to discover the truth in terms of one's thinking and the general prevailing principles of one's religion,.. Well, then, as i have observed from your responses, i appear to be an outcast questioning the common principles of our religion, which i believe i havent questioned. Nevertheless,I have come to the point where, as Ambros suggested, that i am prohibited to question certain things which nature nor my thinking fail to answer.... Anyway, who should we turn to for an answer? I think , to the Almighty creator-Allah,,that settles everything then,,,if not, please enlighten me and share with us your knowledge.. W/salaam
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| | Tuesday, January 09, 2001 - 03:02 am Faisal Abdi I understand the situation you are facing,,,,really,,however,,,I dont think religion can prevent you from enquiring something,,, While the common sentiment in the forums seems to be in opposition to your views,,,i hope you continue,,,
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| | Tuesday, January 09, 2001 - 12:37 pm Lol Faisal..You really got pinned!!!!!
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| | Tuesday, January 09, 2001 - 03:43 pm Professor If you answer these questions effectively then I might be able to give philosophy a second chance. Is there anything in this world that we can't do without philosophy? What is the greatest contribution of philosophy to Humanity? A simple comparison might be helpfull here. Religion gave mankind legal and moral source. Natural science does not need an introduction. Social science: economics, political science are fundementally crucial to any social order. What is philosophy's thing? We know that greatest asset of philosophy is definition which is nothing more than the difiner's words. We also know that philosophy's ultimate objective, if there is one, is to prove that there is no God and with the usual implications. This is my question, Imagine there is no God, there is no final judgement, man will never be raised, and believer and non-believer will be the same, what do I have to lose? Nothing, I am like the unbelievers, and everyone will have what everyone else has and we all end up in the same place. Imagine however, there is a God, and there will be a day of Judgement where will you go? Of course I believed God and the reward will be mine. In this practical pure reason and logic can you tell me where does philosophy fit? Professor, Joseph Stalin once confided his aides in reference with Philosophers "All they do is talk, talk, and talk" and when he fed up with them he sent them to Gulugs. I am not sure if they don't belong in there. Finally, don't get me wrong and think I am agianst progressive thinking, all I am really saying is that philosophy is Western thought and it is not universal. Therefore we strongly reject any attepmt of universalizing it. I don't think your friends, third world philosophers have understood this conflict of interest. Edward Said's Orientalism might be helpful here.
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| | Tuesday, January 09, 2001 - 04:08 pm Durgal & friends You all confuse philosophy with Photosynthesis.I say that because,photosynthesis has something to do with light and cabonhydrate,which is essential for sight in your cases.You and this Faisal abdi and estrella.I dont see any real faith of Islam in you guys,you all make me sick.You discover one or two bilogically stimulation curiosity in your brains,and all of a suden yo u think you have become the great students of Philosophy.Dont forget,that object(brain) which creates that stimulation of reasoning was meant for you guys to learn more about your religeon and worship your Allah,not question him indirectly. My suggestions to you is,consult your religeon and re-construct your religeous faith,i see you are hopping on the train which destination is hell. w/alleikum salaam
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| | Tuesday, January 09, 2001 - 04:57 pm Wisdom/Philanthropist Can you please interpret what you just said?
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| | Tuesday, January 09, 2001 - 06:55 pm Whenever one person tries to use his/her mind, there should be some pigots imposing this free thinker on some kind of religion rules. All this attitude of religion imposing comes to down to fear. Folks, It is time to set free those who want to find their way out in this world. Phylosophy is not new feild. It is as old as mankind. All human history mankind has been trying to find the power behind the mystry creation, but mankind was unlucky and the answer of the mystry creation remains unknown. there was religions who explained the power behind the creation and meaning of life. However, in every religion there were some people who remained skeptical.others were unconvinced and they rejected the exlplation of religion.This means through all human history there some athiests who questioned the explanations of relgions and existence of God. This means atheism is as old as human beings and shouldn't threat to anyone or religion. In the quran there are many verses talking atheists. They are called "al dahriyiin"--people of time. They believed that it was only times that makes them to come being and it is also same that put them to death--nothing more nothing less--" wamaa xayaatuna al dunyaa ilaa namuuti wa naxyaa. wamaa yahlukunaa ila al dahru". Thus, I believe humans beings should be set free and given chance to question everything. It is only then that if the questions the existence of God chooses a certain religion can be called believer of God. Many of us can't deffend why we believe in islam yet they claim they are muslims. Wouldn't it be nice if this people question islam and decide if they will remain muslims rather than being imposed on by their parents?. If that happens for sure we wouldn't being having a lot so-called muslims who are muslims by mouth and know nothing about islam. This explains why the newcomers to islam are more strong and knowledgable than most of us who were born in muslims. In conclusion, people should be left alone to explore their world and decide what to believe rather than imposing some religion rules on them or not letting them to excersise their freedom to choose. Durgal, Whenever i see what you wrote down something about islam some part of me just die. For some reason known only to God, i have this wierd feelings that you are some kind of hypocrite. please note I am not saying you are one.Only you and Allah know if you are hypocrite but this feeling inside of me was just telling me you are one. I don't know maybe it is satan talking to me but if you are one please leave islam alone by showing such much fear which makes you jump on anyone who tries to think freely. By this attitude, you are only making islam looking worst than making it look any better. Alipapa
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| | Tuesday, January 09, 2001 - 07:24 pm to alipapa: what u said is true...no one should blindly follow anything...even islam...ask questions about the things u r not clear with...Allah has said in the quran < if this book was from some one other than Me in it u would find many contradictions >...this verse is challenging ppl to find contradictions in the quran...islam doesn't tell u to blind follow anything...
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| | Tuesday, January 09, 2001 - 07:26 pm and can u pls define freedom? what is freedom?
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| | Tuesday, January 09, 2001 - 07:36 pm ALI PAPA YOU SHOULD TALK? HYPOCRICY IS YOUR MIDDLE NAME.JERK ASS IS YOUR NICK NAME.NJOO NIKUFIRE MATAKONI SHOGA WEWE. NIAJE?
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| | Tuesday, January 09, 2001 - 07:50 pm To;Wisdom ;;and durgal How dare you guys come here and deny the importance of philosophy in our lives. History of human development came to the present point because of philosophy. Islam is being professed today by billions of people who believe in its philosophy. While revelation is the ultimate philosiphy to you guys, there are millions of people whose belief depends on the philosophy of other men who were as much more practically reasonable than what you are believing.. Mankund is bestowed on this rational faculty we call, brain,not by nature as you want me to put it, in order to think and better their existence in this world. The whole system of governance in this world depends and have as their base the philosophy of ordinary men like you inspired by their desire to improve the living ways of minkind... Philosophy to mankind is what oxygen is to our existence... As i look in your argument, i observe the apparent analogy you use to illustrate the point, that of photosynthesis, which is totally not relevant to the issue. You accuse us , me, esstrella,durgal, of creating a unique stimulation,,as u put it,,On the contrary, you forgot that the issue of philosophy has been and is still the debate in a lot of international forumss. Has the mere airing of this topic make us reverends of this subject, as you said that we think we are educated?''and what made you suggest that we dont know what the purpose of our brains are for?. Brother, all i can say with sincerity is that you jumped in to the topic just to make your hrash criticism, which is welcome even though it is not related to the subject and goes beyond touching our personal characters which, as you know, you know nothing about.. I hope next time you will be more practical and air your points with the sole purpose of resolvimg the issue,,, And as to Durgal,,yes Stalin said that,,but what a bity you havent finished the full statement,, Let me add and finish.."Time has come for us to put the theories of philosophy into practice, yes" And that was what Stalin did, applying Marxist Ideology into practice.. Stalin was elected as being the masre srategist, the man who re-created Marxism from a mere theory into a real practical moving system of Socialism.... We are doomed,,realy, if we follow what you have suggested, namely not to inquire the aspects of life that we dont understand,,Are we really passive, only to receive and accept, never going beyond the surface? That wasnt the plan of Allah,,On the contrary, man was blessed with this rational faculty to dtermine his destiny, using his senses. While religion is a benchmark for the guidence of men,it has to be remembered that though the answers are there ,,,they are abstract to the ordinary mind, thus forcing one to question... That is why philosophy comes into the picture...Muslim men who are blessed by almighty with a sharp keen sense of understanding these abstract islamic principles.. Through these men, who inspired by their love for their religion and their strive to please and propogate the religion, answers can be found,,,and as such brother, there is nothing wrong if one questions the existence of god, or angels...Everything on earth has an origion, a source where we can find explanation and enlightment,,and few people see that fine line between abstract and plain principles,,, I totally agree with Alipapa,,,and hope that you go back and bause and reflect if your brain is merely for accepting everything even if it compells you otherwise.. It is all a reflection,,and all of us perceive each other because of the perceptions of our mind towards each other,,,
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| | Wednesday, January 10, 2001 - 02:49 am I am sorry but I have to disagree with some comments in here. The first recorded or should I say written philosofi came from ancient Egypt also known as Kemet which was the local name meaning Black, thus the lands of the Blacks, the Arabs and the Greeks came much much later! Now lets get philosophical: 1. What came first to earth the egg(beed) or the henn(Digaag)???????????? 2. Where were you when the world was created?????? 3. If you believe matter exists the I ask you is Light matter or not????? 4. Do we have a free will or is AllAH controlling our actions and in that case can we be held guilty for our actions?? I am a Muslim so I am sorry if I have commited shirk, Takbir Allahu Akbar Takbir Allahu Akbar!!!! These are just some of the questions I have asked sometime during my life but I have inner peace now thanks to ALLAH Subxana Watacala!!! Good website for muslims www.harunyahya.org click on english to understand in upper righthand corner!! Nabadgelyo
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| | Wednesday, January 10, 2001 - 06:12 am wisdom. I don't know what will be the official definition of the word freedom. But to me this is the way it goes: freedom = having the ability to do what you want while you are not harming (physically or psychologically)others or you aren't violating the rights of others. Alipapa
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| | Wednesday, January 10, 2001 - 12:14 pm Professor I am still waiting. For the rest of you, I am social scientist and I take pride in following an argument to its logical conclusion. To be frank though I have anticipated all of your responses, especailly Faisal. In addition, it is understandable why philosophy claims to be the basis of every subject, because it does not have its thing, a fact that made it a laughing joke in every social science building around the world. Does anyone KNOW what philosophy is? Is it a thought? Is it an idiology? Is it a dicipline? Or may be it is combanations of the three, who knows. Are we talking about European philosophy, Greek philosophy, or Third world philosophy. Is philosopher the same as thinker? Who decides this and on what basis is this decided? Is there clear distiction between the two in terms of division of labor? In general, can every subject have its own thinkers just as specualtive imagination has its own philosophers, Plato for example. Can we think of someone like Imam Shaafici, the supreme jurist of Islam, as philosopher becuase he was the founder of Islamic principles of Law, for the fact that he was able to introduce new method in the development of Islamic law? Faisal I am trying to locate what philosopher do,and not thinkers and vice verse. Point the finger at something. Is free thinking philosophy? Please be specific or I wont answer. THANKS
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| | Wednesday, January 10, 2001 - 01:36 pm DURGAL The clarity and concision with which you present some fairly abtruse ideas is truly commendable.... Well, philosophy has its origion in the intellectual and social problems of their own time and culture, and by their construction of a theory of reality, knowledge, morality, politics, or history, they serve to define the norms and ideals of the culture and the era... Every philosophic work depicts the living spirit of a mortal human being, in a specific cultural situation, struggling to understand, as we all must, the human condition in the changing yet continuous reality in which we find ourselves,,,.. With all due respect, i dont understand what your specific aim is? Free thinking ????is it a philosophy??? Without going deeper into that aspect, i leave that question to your intelligence to figure it out as a social scients who has appreciated that subject... The fact is ,,in all your arguments, none is supported by any acceptable premises..On the contrary, you seem to be asserting islamic philosophers to the forefront of your argument.. And finally, philosophy is not an ideology that operates in a vacuum.
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| | Sunday, January 14, 2001 - 02:03 pm Hi, faisal cut the crap, I dont care about it any more. Do you have an email, I got some assignment for you. You love Somalia, don't you? We can direct our energy to a different direction, and work together.
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