     wanaagsane | Thursday, January 04, 2001 - 11:35 pm
Assalamu calaykum:
Recently, I had the opportunity to visit Africa, having being in the west for many years. What I found was people(somalis) whose main ambitions in life was to emigrate to the west. Infact, a disease called "BUUFIS" has found its way into somali brains. (Note this is actually state, when a person is so pre-occupied with leaving the continent, that he forgets his other humanly duties.
After having travelled extensively in Kenya and somalia, my only conclusion was that, we somalis are un-appreciative of the life we lead in western countries. We have at least security and safety.
My question is "are we somalis ungratefull?, Can we be ever part of the countries that adopted us (those countries that gave us basic freedoms, we seldomly got from our so-called brothers?).. Where does our loyalty lie?
Please debate this issue |
| xamaali. | Friday, January 05, 2001 - 03:33 am
Wanaagsane.
Don't be fooled by the used ford or whatever you drive. It doesn't bring about loyalty. |
| Kamal | Friday, January 05, 2001 - 05:26 am
I agree with xamaali
brother don't let your visa, the pay check from 7/11, your American travel document,the cell phone and the six
pack of beer that you have been drinking deceive
you. If you so desperate for gratefulness; be greatfull to almighty Allah.
salama |
| Qarad | Friday, January 05, 2001 - 07:36 am
Wanagsane, I am grateful that I don't live with hypocrites who tell me that we share the same relgion and come at night to slauughter my brothers. I have become, what I consider myself: A naturalized American of Somali origin. I don't need people with pariochial tribal agenda to define who I am or validate my relationship with Allah.
To hell with moryaan and all that have moryaan mentality! |
| xamaali. | Friday, January 05, 2001 - 03:32 pm
Qarad.
I don't recall the somali identity being for sale. You can take a hike if it suits you......No tears will be shed. One thing you.... masaakiin need to get...straight into...your brains is... that.. no one cares about whoever bails out...of the somali flock... Your visits to this website proves...you can't do without us...Pity..that..you..still can't do without us..don't you think?... |
| xamaali. | Friday, January 05, 2001 - 03:37 pm
A hypocrite..by definition..is one who lies when he talks...cheats when trusted...breaks...his oath..after hetakes it.....prays for the sake of people. Make sure you ...don't have one of those traits...yourself...I beg for the exclusion to allah almighty.. |
| Halyey | Friday, January 05, 2001 - 04:16 pm
Wanaagsane
Yes we are! No doubt about that! We are the most ungrateful race on earth! Those morons who are shouting their pseudo nationalism from the rooftops will scuttle to their attorneys and beg their local politicians if they were told to go back home! Make no mistake about that. HYPOCRITES! |
| xamaali. | Friday, January 05, 2001 - 04:47 pm
Halyey(weakling).
Believe me...I don't feel any loyalty to anybody.. And I am not required according to islam to have any loyalty to anybody EXCEPT...TO THE PROPHET OF ISLAM.... Parents come next.... I contribute to this country a lot and get taxed to death.... You would have seen politicians learning somali to court us...into their vote.. Hell...I am liked and respected for my being somali... Now...for someone... who doesn't share islam with somalis...can be understood...they have a way of expressing decent. . by calling themselves...somali names..lol. Well, I am not fooled.
Why not guys show your gratefulness by...kissing the boots for whomever you want....I am muslim first then somali...at any given time and second...My friends like it and respect me for being somali and different.... You guys can choke to death...for your..animosity towards somalis... I am not dissappointed in that none of you can...be without us...I am disheartened that every HYPOCRITE...and disbeliever comes to us...under the guise of civilization....to be even with somalis..... Why there has to be..somali connection.... for some people to be heard.. Disgustful isn't it.
I knew what it meant to come to...a different country... Take advantege of it...and use it positively to my OWN GOOD.. Not to drum up and shore support for the unappreciative...of me..and of Us. You would have seen..how people revere the somali somalis...who cling on to their islamic culture and attitude....We got nothing to lose by being who we are wherever....whenever...however situation we are in...
I am disgusted with THE LOYALTY call to a disbeliever's ill fitted psych and culture... Is that Islamic?.... Sold outs!!..I want to see some of your true colours you weaklings... I am here to give you the perfect medicine that.. cures your sickness.. Any takers?.... |
| xamaali. | Friday, January 05, 2001 - 05:15 pm
Halyey(fuley).
If you can't resist to diss islam...feel free..because that is when...you will really stand up for your cause.... buona fortuna.. I am all ears...oops! wait....I am all eyes to see if you can do it. |
| Idea | Friday, January 05, 2001 - 06:30 pm
lol @ xamali
"are we somalis ungrateful?"
Hmmmm, i don't think so. Why are you looking just at the Somalis...what about the other nations?
Go east..go west...No place like HOME. |
| Ice-Man | Friday, January 05, 2001 - 06:34 pm
Welcome back wanaagsane.
I hope you will tell us life in Somalia and where you went without telling us the cities you visited.security, education, Health, and life in general.
To go back the Debate. All human being are ungrateful to what they have, we Always need more and more. like xamaali's Argument. most African people escape poverty and harsh life style to became bunch slaves in western hemisphere, and it doesn't surprise me if Somalis back home are dreaming like Martin Luther king said once "A promise land" sadly we base our Arguments like "no one is bothering me here" or "I have a freedom"
what freedom? to become a slave? to settle less than what they don't deserve? to be dehumanized like a sub -human?
Most our people should remember this poem east and west home is the best. we might gain few dollars here but it will destroy us in a long term.
Wanaagsane I hope you taught those people you met in Somali what west is All about.
Xamaali sometimes it's better to die like a poor man and dignify than a coward who sold his soul to some creatures who don't Appreciate your effort
Later |
| Xamaali. | Saturday, January 06, 2001 - 12:12 am
Ice-man.
Living in a foreign land...doesn't mean..you have to conform to rules or customs..that identify others...All values are based on sacred or non-sacred laws...The wisdom...teaches..that we should accept..only the acceptable to our islamic culture..and reject what is rejected by it...I haven't seen loyalty included in the system...
We have a lot of adversities in our country... no doubt about it... It is all brought unto us BY US. Such things happen in all the times to different nations and people....Nothing unique about it.. Neverthless...when we tried to escape those adversities... Many among us..didn't have in mind to change their ancestral... customs... These guys.. are promoting the unacceptable.. by saying ... We have to be loyal to the hosts... Do we live freely in this country... If we were a proplem and a burden to these countries they would never... have accepted a sinlge person from us... They expected us among other things..to be productive and contribute to their wealth by way of cheap labor... They also have... candidates..who will work for their interest in the somalia of tommorrow.... They are thinking about the next century and who will carry their interest through out the lands... I don't think they did help us for the heck of it don't you think?.. I applaud for their shrewdness and smartness... However... I am not one who falls victim to the great plan of theirs... I have my own plans in the loop...
Idea.
lol.... I wonder why the singling out of somalis?.. |
| Qarad | Saturday, January 06, 2001 - 06:46 am
Xamaali in your emotional outburst you confused two words : 1) gratefulness and 2) loyalty. The 2 words don't mean the same thing. Being grateful doesn't entail being loyal. Another thing choosing to live where one wants doesn't mean forgetting the postive aspect of one's heritiage. In your debates, try to be logical rather than emotional aight! |
| spicegirl | Saturday, January 06, 2001 - 07:11 am
Qarad
I agree! |
| Xamaali. | Saturday, January 06, 2001 - 02:40 pm
Qadar.
Grateful as a word...entails three meanings..the second of which is..."Expressing gratitude"... To whom do I express my gratitude?... I am reiterating my position again..that I only express my gratitude for...the provision I have..the opportunities I enjoy... And all that...is favored on me to Allah only... Others expect from me a payback of somekind... Perhaps may be to have views like yours after being offered a paper that declares in my adolescence who I should consider my self to be...
Does the Question "Where does our loyalty lie".. Make any sense to you?..Where does your loyalty lie Qadar?.You said.. " I am grateful that I don't live with hypocrites who tell me that we share the same relgion and come at night to slauughter my brothers"... I beg to differ on the exaggerated security...you seem to be selling to me... I expect in any moment that a disgruntled worker can burst ...into my office and spray bullets on me... Further more...
Are all somalis hypocrites?.. If yes, that makes you the first one of them... No wonder You told us..what you consider yourself... What is that supposed to mean ...A moral boast for you after being so heart-broken?... Revisiting what you wrote may better serve...you just fine... I don't diss somalis to feel broad... Their imperfection doesn't mean they have to be...shunned..or worse.. to be trodded on by the same people..who would defend them...
Thanks for the literature... I appreciated being reminded of the word... grateful and what it means... It turned out to corroborate my previous understanding of it... The very essence of literature is the war between emotion and intellect... was it intellectual for you and for Halyey to talk the way you did?.. The emotions were evident in a stark manner from your... comments about your kind.... |
| ANAA WASA WANAAGSANE IYO WEST | Saturday, January 06, 2001 - 08:44 pm
sell out!!! |
| Will reveal the name later | Sunday, January 07, 2001 - 04:54 am
Ice-men and Xamaali
You are wrong wrong,
Look this.
Food and shelter huh, freedom to come to the Somalinet and insulted the clan you hate eh, freedom to say all the rubish thing that comes into your mind eh,
We have to be part of the countries that adopted us eh, how can you do that eh, keep your Quranic law at home eh, you can read it when you got home eh,
tell your sisters it is okey to have a boyfreand if she takes care of her health eh, do not hit her on the head eh, if she says i want get married tell her she could wait and see if the relationship goes okey, eh, have a couple of kids first eh, than see how it goes eh.
whatlese o yeh, if you are a woman stop the head scarf it makes you look like a grandma eh.
You are ungrateful indeed,
Have something to say, please go to the speaker's corner! |
| Halyey | Sunday, January 07, 2001 - 05:27 am
Xammali
You are carrying too much! You totally confused a whole bunch of often unrelated values and emotions. Gratitude,loyalty, nationalism faith.
You can be a Muslim and a loyal Somali and still show gratitude for the country who sheltered you from the bullets of your fellow somalis. Your patriotism and faith must be truly flimsy if you believe you will somehow lose them if you express gratitude. |
| dr.romance | Sunday, January 07, 2001 - 06:15 am
Xamali!
I'd rather be a could-be if I cannot be an are;
because a could-be is a maybe who is reaching for a star.
I'd rather be a has-been than a might-have-been, by far;
for a might have-been has never been, but a has was once an are.
xamali
God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.
Yours.dr.romance
Thanx! |
| dr.romance | Sunday, January 07, 2001 - 06:19 am
Bro/sis
In this age, which believes that there is a short cut to everything, the greatest lesson to be learned is that the most difficult way is, in the long run, the easiest.
yours dr.romance |
| Qarad | Sunday, January 07, 2001 - 09:34 am
Xamaali, you sound like some-one you sees everything in black and white. For you, everything is mutually exclusive of every other thing. You think: "if someone is not with me; does not think like me; does not see things from my prespective; then that person is against me and what I stand for" My way or the high-way!
For your information random acts of violence is not the same as a systemic mass murder of a group who are targeted for no other reason than the tribe they belong do. I am grateful that I have the choice of not living or dealing with moryan
Qarad is out |
| wanaagsane | Monday, January 08, 2001 - 01:50 am
assalamu calaykum:
Ice-man thx ...The somalis in somali proper are leading a life emboided in hardship. health care is non-existent (there are some pharmacies and so-called doctors) who capitalise on the suffering of the people. A calculated guess in this regard is that people pay upto a half of their income on medical care. There is no control of drugs in somalia.
Education: There are no public schools , The private schools offer mainly religious classes and language classes.
Xamaali and Kamal: I never took stance!! I am not intrested in the semantics of words but, rather a debate.
Qarad: good points. |
| SomaliCream | Monday, January 08, 2001 - 10:54 am
People hold up have u forgotten what the whole debate was all about it simply asked are somalis ungrateful? most of the answers dont actually give your opnion about the question, some of u such as Xamaali gone way out of the topic, i agree with Qadar when he says that u see the world black and white is either my way or the high way, try and reach an undertanding that other opnions dont have to agree with what ur saying.
What really makes me angry is the nature of this question, why does it state only somali people being ungrateful, it is human nature to be ungrateful, in every cultures and religions u will find a person who is ungrateful. How can a person generalise a whole nation to being ungrateful? do u know every single somali person in this world? no so why make such an aqusation. Some people are grateful to what they have and some r not, but that is their indivdulal problem and it should not make any differance if they are somali or not.
it is bad enough we have to be judged in this world because of our culture, but being judged by another somali person is much more worse. |
| Durgal | Tuesday, January 09, 2001 - 01:43 pm
Xamaali go bro.
Rarely do we see in any of these social discussions someone who defends an argument becuase he has full appreaciation of the way things are, or because he understands what they imply. In other words someone who has strategic sense of particular argument and its implication. This is what separates passive readers from active ones, Xamaali understands this strategic sense and he is consistently able to make good argument. I have seen many people who take positions that fundementally contradict what they believe,and who they are just becuase they want make good argument. It seems to me many people in Somalinet discussions would benefit if they develop that next step of pure intellectualism: the ability to coordinate their arguments with their ingroups. For instance, if you are Muslim you know that everything you do, eat, sleep, are predetermined, then does it make any sense to be grateful to anyone other than Allah. Now if someone takes different position then he might look like someone who needs intellectual coordination. Most of the participants are doing good job but they are unconciously saying something they don't want say.
Xamaali bro we are forming this somali oraganization, young somalis who are interested in lifting their country from intellectual, political,and economic stagnation so that we compete effectively in this world. If you think you have time for such an adventure please see this discussion " CAN THE NEW GENERATION MAKE DIFFERENCE? BY lION and keep contact with us. We don't see the right people often. |
| Sagittarius | Friday, January 12, 2001 - 06:59 pm
Wanagsane,
You maybe grateful where ever you are in the West, but still you have a debt to pay called first nature. Maybe, your offsprings can be very much way too grateful!
The question you've got to ask yourself is, was this the ultimum destination and the final quest in life? Then, perhaps you can share your lot in life for achieving safety and security in one's land!
Sagittarius |
