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     | Tuesday, January 30, 2001 - 05:29 pm To all young Somalis who are bound to restore Somalia's dignity. As student of poltical science and economics I am honored to present a clear analysis of the political reality in Somalia, especially in time where Somalia's fate is at critical crossroad. I'll make two statements, first, Ethopia is determined to transform Somalia into Ethopian client state or colony. Second, Neither the warlords nor the interim government of Qaasim has the capacity to restrain Eithopia's ambitions. Therefore Somalia's future lies on our hands,particularly those of us who are in colleges. Eithopia's plan would not materialize even a within the next ten years, which gives us time to reorganize our priorities and be prepared for intellectual battle with this stinking enemy. Their plans would not work unless we shy away from that battle. Time will tell which one we choose, but I am confident we will come on the top. The Ethopian regime regards it a conventional wisdom that their country's national security requires a weak Somalia, which is basically transfroming Somalia into Ethopian client state. This veiw has taken a new turn when Ethopia lost its hopes of restoring their traditional ports from Ereteria. In addition all of the advantages are on their side,stable government, tens of thousands of deciplined troops as compared to a country who lacked a centeral government for nearly ten years, and have regime of unpatriotic, reactionary amateurs. In order for this transformation to occur, making somalia a defacto client state, two things have to be done. First, Somalia must be broken up and reduced to small and and weak "autonomous regions" ruled by recationary warlord who neither perceive the Eithopian threat nor feel the pain of those who live under them. Second, Somalia grants all kinds of economic concession and privilleges that would have her open to the enemy's penetration and ultimately total domination. Is this a reality? lets examine. These two processes are happening as we speak. For instance, what else would Ethopia undermine Art's government? does she like some Somalis better than others. I don't think so, she cares about its interests. Ethopia is behind all these headlines(read the details from Somalinet news) 1. "Cusmaan Caato oo la xaqiijiyey inuu booqday eithopia" 2."Gudoomiyaha gobalka Hiiran oo sheegay in maamul gobaleed ku dhawaaqi doonaan" 3. " Shir Ceel barde Ka dhacay oo la soo gabagabeeyay laguna soo saaray go'aamada: In la dhowro midnimada iyo madaxbanaanida umada Soomaaliyeed lana abuuro dawlad gobaleed" The number three headline is contradiction, you cannot protect Somalia interest and at the same time have regional autonomy, we are not ready for a less centralized regime yet. It is a peaceful and gradual process which is impossible when you have Ethopian troops on your borders. In addition, none of these warlords understand what they are doing. And more, who is funding Ceel Barde's meeting? Eithopia my friend, and they are using warlord's boundless search for throne. On the other hand they are bribing, courting, threatning warlords with PORTS. For instance, look at Eithopia's attempt in improving High ways in the so-called Somaliland. Cigaal is making all kinds of economic concessions to an enemy who has tens of thousands of troops at his border. In short, Ethopia does not give a danm about who rules somalia as long as these two processes are completed. What should Somalis do? The somali interim government must be supported without question, even though I have serious doubts over its capacity to lead, but at least it can frustrate the ENEMY'S PLAN. However, the real weapon that will destroy Ethopia's ambitions is US, Young Somalis who are in colleges. If within the next 7 years we do not return to Somalia with the modern socail science tools, political science, economics,law, sociology at our disposal not only would the enemy's plan materialize but we will lose both our history and destination to an enemy who cherishes nothing less than the total destruction of our religion and our way of life. I am a somali, would anyone tell me how can a stinking Ethopian concieve such an idea. WE WILL SEE. WARNING ANYONE WHO WORKS WITH ETHOPIA NOW IS UNDOUBTEDLY LEAVING HIS FINGER PRINTS TO ALOT OF ENEMIES WHO WILL NEVER FORGET SUCH A TREASON. THINK NOW FOR YOUR ACTIONS.
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| | Tuesday, January 30, 2001 - 06:21 pm Hey bro, Ethiopia would never invade Somalia. Ethiopia respects Somalia too much for that; however Eritrea looks pretty ripe for the pickings but never Somalia.
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| | Tuesday, January 30, 2001 - 07:21 pm Anon, they don't have to invade they are using warlords. The strategy is simple break up Somalia into small regions then control and make these regions accept Ethopia's economic concessions which in the end would make somalia a client state. Is like telling an elephant he is weaker than Fox. This process is systematic and requires tremendous experties. They want to create an environment where the ultimate objective is to literally destroy our spirit of national bride,by focusing on locals. In truth Ethopia depends on us, but only if there is a strong national government. I am social scientist I can trace and oraganize varoius unrelated accidents into intelligable whole. They are using the same social science tools to achiave their objectives. For instance, Ethopia's two fold objectives, are not different from what the Germans used against Bolsheviks in 1917. It is exactly the same replica of the German plan. Russia was in chaos, coming out WWI and engulfed by civil war. In addition Linen's Bolshevik's had barely overthrown Interim Government when the German troops made themselves avialable at the outskirts of Perograd, the capital city at the time. Bolsheviks were saved because partly they had Linen, Somalia would only be saved from future enemy if it produces a considerable number of social scientist. Take major or minor in any of these courses; political science, International realtions, Poltical Economy, Economis,Sociology.
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| | Tuesday, January 30, 2001 - 10:35 pm Durgal I majored in History and minored in political science and German language. I also have spent some 16 plus years as an intelligence officer. Let me take a crack at this one. I believe your assessment on Ethiopia wanted a weak Somalia is essentially correct. But not for the reasons you suspect. Ethiopia really doesn't have the vision to see Somalia economic potential. But it does remember the past. You want to know what Ethiopia fears?? Being fractured. That's because Ethiopia, unlike Somlalia, is not a nation. It's a state composed of multiple nations. And these multiple nations have not come to grips with how to run a pluralistic society. This fear was significantly aggravated by Ethiopias loss of Eritrea. When Somalia was a state it invaded Ethiopia in order to seize the Ogaden, a region with an ethnically Somali population. When not in a state of outright war the Ogaden has been plagued by movements like the WSLF, Al-Itihad, etc. If this fear were allayed, Ethiopia could be a significant trading partner to Somalias benefit. How to deal with the problem. In my opinion it's two fold. To wit: a. Encourage (at Ethiopian expense) the construction of a rail line from Berbera to Addis. Port fees can generate a whole industry and allow Berbera to compete with Djibouti and other Eritrean ports with political entanglements. b. Renouce military solutions to irredentist claims on the Ogaden. Perhaps, through subsequent economic leverage, the Ogaden can attain a semi-autonomous status, which should satisfy both Ethiopian and Somali concerns. Understanding the complexities of the Somali political situation, I don't think a strong centralized political system is viable. A confederacy with strong regional governments accomodates the Somali clan system far better. Thus a loose confederation of states (closer to the Swiss model than the American one) probably serves Somalias political best. Furthermore, I don't think a strong centralized government is possible. It will always be regarded with suspicion by all Somalis wh's clan does not control the presidency. Somalias economic potential, although difficult to recognize right now, is enormous. In additional to probable oil and natural gas reserves, Somalia lie astride the most active trade routes in the world through the Gulf of Aden. With deep water ports as Berbera and Boosaso, a perfect climate and no tropical storms to worry about, a Somalia with an educated population becomes a potential business bonanza. Somalia also has great tourist potential, particularly among rich gulf countries. It's blend of Islamic and African culture make it esspecially appealing to Arabs. In my opinion the key to neutralizing Ethiopia is to embrace it. Develop a Horn of Africa Free Trade Agreement (HAFTA). Make the Ethiopians economically dependent. Allay their fears. If Ethiopia senses that Somalia is a friend vice an enemy, the entire regional climate will change to everyones advantage.
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| | Wednesday, January 31, 2001 - 05:34 pm Mad Mac the real focus is what Ethopia is doing now, I don't really care if its helping the State Department or not. If Ethopia policies and actions contribute a weak national government, then it would not matter for Somalis if Ethopians collect the profit or someone else does. Strong central government has never been closer to reality than it is today, Only warlords seem to object. We don't want to institutionalize clans by giving them designated regions, what about those who don't have cities or regions? If you add your economic proposals with warlord feifdoms then you have exactly the German plan. There will be no economic development or trade with Ethopia unless there is central government who coordinates it and understand the economic and political consequences of such trade. No one will trust someone who let Nuclear wastes being burried on one of the most beautiful beaches in the world. Warlords time is over, any one who wants to take advantage Somalia's weakness must be reminded the strong bride that resides within Somalis. This is why State Department failed in Somalia on "Operation Restore Hope"
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| | Wednesday, January 31, 2001 - 06:55 pm Durgal, I agree with you mostly what you said about the Ehopia. Ethopia fear mostly strong Somali gov`t but at the same right we cant afford now to make Ehopia our enemy given the reality on the ground. It will be wise to deal with them peace fully, that we never tried before. Furthermore, HornAfrica needs peace we had enough wars in these regions than other sub-saharan states. To tell the truth deep down in my heart tells me on the contaray. We and Ehopian had been fighting more than centuries and i dont want to give up now but that is the case in reality more than half of the warlords are getting support from the Xabashi. So why we dont give peace a chance at least our side.
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| | Wednesday, January 31, 2001 - 09:02 pm GUHAAD, MAD MAC. The problem is Ethiopia goverment stucture as, polotical sceince guy mentioned. They have so many local problem. Not mention A dictatorship who is 13 years in power already and do not have any plane to step down any soon in the future. They have to paint Somalia and other country enemy to their poor people. later
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| | Wednesday, January 31, 2001 - 09:09 pm I hate to say most Somalian's are not patriotic they care more their Clan leader than the Country it self ,Yes we do have huge civil conflict still go'ing on ,but how do we find a solution to ? ? ? I Really believe and its reality neither Ethiopia nor UN have solution Somalia civil war .Only the Somali's can bring peace to Smalia .' but I don't think we are ready Yet'' the Warlords can have support from Ethiopia and New Gov'mnt can have any nation from support.....this civil war can go on the next ten years or beyond that . Ethiopia and the Warlords may have short term allies ,but both of them know they have different dreams .and this civil war will go on and on Until all Somali's are ready to bring peace this Beautiful land Heart breaking Society . will cont. Ali-Ghedi
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| | Thursday, February 01, 2001 - 12:26 am Durgal I totally dis-agree with You. I sense your Ethopian illness comes from your attachment to your Favourite WarLord and Arta Grouping then any benefit for Somalia or Somalis. And your deceiving to hide behind Nationalisim and same time painting yourself benefactor when We all Know the Somali Problems stems out Internal quarrel. Why are you against if the Soamli people decide to enact regional States? is that your Squating other peoples Land and you feel very threatned and you will be evicted sooon. and what is wrong if Everyone builds viable states and all states became part of Faderal Goverment, Durgal until you face the reality I don't think we can argue with this topic. if your interested well being of Somalis you should suport what works for your people then interest of your group or tribe. Central goverment failed Somalia big time and will fail again and I can't forsee inthe future. The only way we can build Somalia and maintain sustainable peace is to start what is called grass roots democracy or building Blocks. the demostration of this system has been succesfull upto date, especially for Somalia society (Somaliland,Puntland and Inshaalaha Southwest Region and so on).
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| | Thursday, February 01, 2001 - 02:15 am I read the other day that the TNGs minister of information was blaming the somali artists of not doing their part in the propaganda war against Ethiopia!!. So, i think mr. Durgal is doing his part, only her on net "YOUNG SOMALIS BE PREPARED FOR WAR AGAINST ETHIOPIA"  !. Mr, you can not fool any body here. Your hatred and war-mongering is totally rejected here. In the past 11 years of inter-clan raids and killings all along Somalia we didn't hear much about Ethiopia, only the last two years when Eritrea tried to wage a proxy war along somalia borders against Ethiopia, using all kinds of merceneries and fanatics. Only to be joined later by so called "governement" headed and dominated by new fanatics, this time called: Islah!. Now what do you think Ethiopia should do?. Convert as quickly as possible?! Mad Macs analysis are very sensible. Ethiopia has legitimate fears, nobody wants a blood-thursty neigbour, and any future governement must allay these fears. I also agree with Ali Ghedi in that it's basically local traditional clan wars that Mr. Durgal now suddenly want to internationalize. If we go that way one should be more worried about the role such rogue, terror states such as Sudan and Libya playing in Somalia and the armed support they are giving to "Arta group". Again i would like to repeat millions of times that even if we are a nation that traditionnally loves war and romantisice it, our recent experience have shown as clearly that we MUST change course. There is nothing better than PEACE!
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| | Thursday, February 01, 2001 - 03:41 am assalamu calaykum: I do agree that Ethiopia does not want a strong somalia because this will undermine her position as a regional leader. A strong somalia is a threat to Ethiopia...and its other neighbours. What is hurting is the so-called somalis who slept with the enemy "ethiopia". Almost all these so-called regional leaders have no mandate from the somali people they say they represent. In fact the somalis living in these so-called regions are captives who are terrorised into supporting them. I, therefore, think that we should instead of blaming of ethiopians for our problem focus on the somalis who brought us this mess. MAD-MAC: If we that we are bound to end up as a province of ethiopia and treated as slaves.with all due respect i read your views with a sceptical eye. Didn't you confess to murdering somalis in mogadishu?
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| | Thursday, February 01, 2001 - 04:37 am Salamu Alaikum Thank Goodness we have a sensible issue to discuss at last. I am currently reading Philosophy with Law at London School of economics. And having a sumptuous information of what took place historically between Somalia and our prime enemy Ethiopia I have to entirely agree with what that honourable durgal have stated. It is quite obvious to any Somali thinker that Ethiopia wants more than anything to see a fragile state of Somalia. What it really wants is mini-states like the ones we see in the Gulf. It is quite unfortunate that some Somalis have transformed themselves and sees Ethiopians like their chums. As our brother said, we the young educated Somalis will have the greater task; that is to restore the Somali unity and reinstate our name in the Horn of Africa. It is a challenge that is predestined whether we like it or not, so people let us organise ourselves and disremember our stupid tribal differences for once. United we stand, divided we fall. Mahir. NB: There is demonstration London against the Ethiopian interference and aggression in Somalia. It will commence on 2:00pm at Hyde Park Corner and then the masses will go the target place; that is the Enemies Embassy in London. This is the address of the Embassy: 17 Prince's Gate London SW7 1PZ If you need further information about this please do contact one of of the orginsers Bashir sh. Ahmed On: 02085747553
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| | Thursday, February 01, 2001 - 06:31 am Salamu Alaikum Having seen the atrocities caused by the Ethiopian government and demonstrated the endowment to preservere and also acquitted ourselves so admirably by refusing to allow power to diminish our many superior qualities upon Ethiopians, let's not blow it all now by becoming self-obsessed and tribally orientated. If we fall this time, it will going to be a fall that will take us a great deal of time to redeem. Ethiopia wants us to believe that they are merely after Religious people "collectively called Wadaado" , but we all know that is not the case.So, please my dear fellows, be awake and let us do something about this. Wasalamu Alaikum DrWho London,England
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| | Thursday, February 01, 2001 - 06:32 am War has already began and Somalis are not prepare. Instead arguing if Ethiopia is enemy or not? I was born the border between the two country and I know well Ethiopia tactics. They do not understand what friendship mean. It is part of their culture. Anyone who lived sometimes in West Somali knows. Never give anything Amhaar,never trust. Actually if you give something an AMHAAR he will takes grant. If you do not anything next time they kill you, Plus they kill those they know first. That is Amhaar mentality. My point is those Somalis who thinks their tribe will be better of having Ethiopia as friend think twice. What happened C/laahi yuusuf 1982? He helped Ethiopia and told them every secret any teach Somali way of gorilla warfare but when they together captured two Somali district they put their flag. He protested and they put him in prison. Gedo region went and asked help Ethiopia and now the friendship changed to bad dream. I agree we should have justice and representative government for whole Somalia. I agree also to have local governments but not any so called ...land. My hateric to traitors are increasing and to see Somali people defending the capture of Garbahaarey makes me sad. Same people argue to get back what they call occupied land
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| | Thursday, February 01, 2001 - 06:49 am Now! Hear this. Do you know that you are pointing FOUR fingers at yourself when you point a finger to others? History, Political Science, Economics or whatever you learn Mr. Scholar is beside the point. Ethiopia is invading Somalia and Somalis are wailing. Now! Who lost the nation? Somalis. Not Zanawi. Nay we-Somalis-say and then we point a finger to others while the blame is all ours. If Addis want a beach front and Egal, Abdullahi Yusuf, Yalahow and Masale are competing to rent Barbara, Bossaso, Mogadishu and Kismayo to them. Than all the power to the Ethiopians-the Christian Island in the Muslim ocean.
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| | Thursday, February 01, 2001 - 06:35 pm People Ethopia is threat only through the warlords, they themselves cannot achieve anything. So the task is simple, we have to kill the warlords as soon as the oppurtunity presents itself, one by one. Killing each warlord means saving one region. The trick though is making sure it does not lead to clan wars. Ethopia intensifies its efforts, so will the call for national emergency, which will make easier to separate warlords from their respective clans. Guhaad no need to worry about Ethopia militarily, they are afraid. Ahmed, Diversionary tactics are only useful when there is internal opposition, Zanaawi has total control in Ethopia so there is no need in engaging such provacation. Ali Gedi No one taught us how to love our country. It takes either bad expereince,like the one we have today, or governments teaching their subjects what It means to be citizen. The so-called somali fathers, with exception of few, built their houses, instead of the country. Now its our turn. Jeego and Aden Imagine Somalia falls to the enemy, would it matter then if I support Art government or any other warlord. Guys choose your options carefully. Besides, I am qualified to say what I am saying, it is my professional opinion not a personal one. DrWho and Ahmed Trust that somali bride, that is what saves somalia always. This why somalis never accepted any form of colonial development. Everyone else in AFRICA, accepted it, Somalia never did. The State Department found out that bride in 1993,and I don't see why it should be different this time. Mahir The point is Somalia lacks leaders, we don't have a single person who you can trust, they are stupid and reactionary. This gap of genuine leadership can be rightfully attributed to Bare' 21 dictatorship. He made the whole country followers by actively discouraging any independent thinking. And it seems fair that we are stuck with Caatos,Cigaals and other CCCC's. There is famous saying " No single group in history has ever attained mastery unless it has produced political leaders, its leading representatives capable of oraganizing movements and leading it." Mahir do you know who was the most successful political organization in Somalia? SYL, they followed their heart, and they were determined to make a change. We too can make changes in somalia, this why I am appealing to everyone to be prepared for such task. Thanks for listening. Are you legal historian, if you are check this title Law and legal theory in classical and Medieval Islam by Wael B. Hallaq 1995. It is great book. Finally do you guys think Somalinet is doing her job? They should be interveiwing people in colonized part of somalia, asking how they are treated by the occupying forces. After all this is what Journalism is all about, they should not sit in Mogadishu and tell us what Qaran says.
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| | Thursday, February 01, 2001 - 07:38 pm Durgal To memorize The American Civil war will not make you better man nor it will help Somalia? "Finnally do you guys think Somalinet is doing her job? they should be interviewing people in colonized part of Somalia, asking how they are treated by the occupying forces. After all this what Journalism is all about, they should not sit in Mogadishu and tell us what Qaran says" Ok Durgal which enemy they should Interview, the one that is squating other peoples property on Mogadishu and Shabeele,Kismaayo etc and massacre daily other somali.? as Aden says "the Minister was complaining the Somali Artist of not doing their part of propaganda war against Ethopia" your Almost Hysterical even telling Somalinet how to run their Business and help your disillusioned Idea of the Enemy? To tell you the truth Somali have no other Enemy then other Somalis , Especially People who are greedy enough to squat other peoples Property or land. What your after is not Somali freedom from outside interference its only a way to legitimize the ill gotten property and Land of the other Somalis Your Clan is Squating on. Anyone who falls for your absurd war cry is foolish ?!!
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| | Thursday, February 01, 2001 - 09:10 pm High there Everybody let is not lose this discusion it is very good debate ,and all of you are on the target ,yes we do have different opinion, but we all agree to see peaceful Somalia and that peace can Only come from the Somali's and Somali's can only control their destiny, nobody else all these other forces are only temporary. the Question is what the young generations can afford to get rid off these monsters worlords who is not going away ? as my friend Wanagsane said they brouth us into this mess , we Somali's know who they are and still allowing them to dictate our communities and create more mess to generations to come ''' we are not ready Yet''' will cont. Ali Ghedi
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| | Friday, February 02, 2001 - 01:20 am Great discussion!!! Durgal - and others who share his perspective. I disagree with your position on a strong central government on two counts. First, whether or not we agree that the Somali clan structure is a positive thing, we have to recognize it is reality. I don't like gravity other, it makes planes crash. But there's nothing I can do about it. There's nothing you can do to make Somalia forget their paternal lineage, so let's recognize that's pie int he sky. Centralized government will always be suspect by those marginalized, easily identifiable in Somalia. Here's my second objection. Governments can't be trusted. I don't trust mine and you shouldn't trust yours. In fact, you should trust yours less than I trust mine. African leaders in general, and Somalias in particular, do not have a good track record in the corruption department. A strong central government stands a very good chance of stealing the country blind. I maintain that Ethiopia has legitimate security concerns. It has not yet sorted itself out. Until it does, you must resist the urge to seperate the Ogaden from Ethiopia. That issue must wait. Same for the NFD. First things first. If at first we develop political and economic stability, THEN we can discuss the political status of the NFD and the Ogaden. Note I said discuss. The Shiftas were a big mistake and lead to instability and crime against those who originally made the Frankenstein. I'm encouraged to see most people here discussing this without a lot of name calling. One day, Insha Allah, Somalia will be the paradise it should be.
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| | Friday, February 02, 2001 - 02:35 am salaam: There is this paradox in what is happening in somalia today: The ethiopians are using somalis to get a military hegomony in eastern africa. They are fighting other somalis who want a clan hegemony. I have difficulty in diffentiating the good guys from the bad guys.... My heart is with my somali brethen who are fighting ethiopian agression BUT my brain tells me that, The people claiming to repulse the agression are doing that for their own good. Ethiopia as I noted earlier wants somalia to succumb to being an a liqudiated state. that is clear..a strong somalia will be a threat to ethiopia....Ethiopia wouldn't have had the guts to bring eriterea to its knees if we had a strong somalia........ Do you see my dilema?.... i love somalia and ready to protect/preserve somalia as a nation...and if need be to fight the ethiopians BUT how can i trust the so-called somalia leaders?...what happens when we remove the ethiopians out of somalia?.........
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| | Friday, February 02, 2001 - 02:37 am Salamu Alaikum to all the Muslims here. Let us first dear with the facts here not the hypotheses. The fact before us is that Ethiopia wants undermine the potentiality of Somali state. The day before yesterday I had the opportunity to meet with of the leading Social Anthropologist in the World Emeritus Professor Ion M Lewis, who taught at London School of Economics nearly 20 years. The professor and I discussed various issues including the fate of the new Dr Khalif's government. One of the things he mentioned was that he suspects it will be blow to the Ethiopia's hopes, and Ethiopia will ensure to minimise the power of this government. In his words he said, " it will utilise any means necessary to undermine this newly elected Government", he added I shouldn't blame them cause Somalia and Ethiopia has far complex animosity between them. So, u see one of the leading expert figures stated this fact. Now, what does this mean "any means necessary", this includes what we are witnessing now, the Military interference taking matters in their own hands. Are we the educated young Somalis going to sit and do nothing about it while the squalid Ethopian Soldiars rape our sisters and brothers.? This let down for ourselves and our great great fathers who fought against the aggression and the destiny " their destiny is to be the master of the region" ; if that is what you want then you are a mere ill-educated person. This goes to every erudite Somali in the whole World. If you want to be a member of a forums that brings together the young educated Somalis, whose have a clean and good heart then please do email me at mahir@lobbyist.com Wasalamu Alaikum Mahir
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| | Friday, February 02, 2001 - 02:59 am Thanks Mahir. You are a great guy. I have send you an email giving all my details. Somali
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| | Friday, February 02, 2001 - 03:02 am Good Idear. I shall write to you Mahir. We are desprately in need for educating idiologically one another. Nadira
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| | Friday, February 02, 2001 - 04:42 am Salaan every body! Durgal, you seem to be a powerfull man, who has the ear of your uncle Qaasim. Just a few days after your denounciation of SomaliNet, not doing enough in the propoganda war, i read today the company's office in Mogadishu is virtually shut down!. Well, every one can make his or her own conclusions about this matter. I have nothing more to say. Having said this, there is a somali saying which says "Asal waa ma guuraan". The reason this saying comes to my mind in this context is; here we have seemingly educated somalis studying in prominent universities, so one would suppose that when discussing this subject they would contribute with enlightened, constructive ideas. But helas! hearing some supposed ennemies, and the urgent need to wage war, most of them are agitated and excited, already pledging to paricipate!. What a shame. A deja vu from Hanleys "life and death among somalis" 60 years ago isn't?!. Before drawing this "ever exciting" conclusion none of these "educated" bothered to analyse the nature and tactics of the TNG govenment, or whether we, somalis, need to make drastic reforms ourselves before we point fingers to others, after all it's we who are responsible for our downfall. All these matters seem to be beside the point. Allah help Somalia and Somalis!
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| | Friday, February 02, 2001 - 05:40 am ADEN are you claiming Durgal closed the Somalinet office, first this topic has nothing to do here, Somalinet made folder to discuss that topic. I do not have anything to the DKMG however I cannot eccept Garbaharey accupied by against the will of Somali people who live there. Ethiopia already had enough Somali land and tortures Somali people their every day.
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| | Friday, February 02, 2001 - 08:23 am i can't really read all of these postings. mr. duurgal bro, don't worry. somalis will always be divided regardless of ethiopian involvement. you have daarood people who hate hawiye people. you have hawiye people who do the same and fight among themselves. we have one narrow minded isaaq population and so on/.. let's see where the fiefdoms take us to. you know there is a somali saying which goes like this.." qorax soo baxday,sacab malagu qarin karo " somali's problem is simply it's people. not ethiopia nor any other entity. it's us and that is a fact. the other thing is time solves things. warlords, clan groups, warring malitias all will vanish and a new trend will start. it could be even worse but let's not indulge predicting the unssen.
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| | Friday, February 02, 2001 - 08:51 am I do not know where to start but the topic is booming. I have only managed to read three of your inputs. Very good but two-sides of the spectrum. Looking the situation of Somalia in general I think, Verbal said all about it (nb I amnot narrowminded, I hope you got my point here) However, we have to strive to reach a solution for the on-going war. You all seem to have a point but divided up for the same reason as those back home . Ethopia is an anemy and I agree with Profesor Lewis that the enomosity between the two is very complex. Having said that, the present situation that Ethopia supports the somali warlods is not that the Ethopians have that good political plan but it is the Somali warlods that are troitors. They are scum and unfurtunetly the majority of us, let that scums to lead us. About the point whether Somalia should be divided into regions or whether it should have a centralised governement. I think, for mant reasons Cenralised government should be the solution. I am out of time now but will write tommorow about my reasons on that Insah Allah. Araweelo
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| | Friday, February 02, 2001 - 09:20 am wHAT WAS SYL EN WHATS IS TNG????????????
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| | Friday, February 02, 2001 - 10:31 am You go guys. I'm in. Gardaro never wins
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| | Friday, February 02, 2001 - 11:08 am SYL IS SOMALI YOUTH LEAGUE(13 YOUNG GUYS) TNG I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THAT ONE...
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| | Friday, February 02, 2001 - 05:20 pm Durgal, i support TNG 100% but i disagree with them how they are making accuses towards Ehiopia;yes its true Ehiopia`s milatery in Bay and Bakool regions;yes its true Ehiopias milatery in Gedo regions. All this disturbance took place before TNG. So, what i expected those leaders in the gov`t not to ignite the situation we are already in, but to fix the problems dipolmatic means. What we witnessing now is absurd and it makes worse the Ethiopian atitude towards Somalia which is not good for the civilan somalis. And it`s not wise to make the other side meaning warlords whom are aganist TNG anyway less nastionlistic.
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| | Friday, February 02, 2001 - 05:31 pm There are some legitimate concerns here, like Wanaagsane pointed out, and jeego implies. We know we have problem, however it would be futile to compare Ethopia's intention with the warlord's phenomenon. Warlord's intension is to sieze power by exploiting our clan differences, that is his power ball. He knows he failed and he can't get it done, so new tactics must be invented, divide the nation and get your own strip. By fanning out warlord's agitations Ethopia achieves it is first mission, Breaking up Somalia into small regions, then make them concede some economic expolitations, which warlords would not be able to see it at the time of the agreement and when they do it is too late to reverse it. In other words Ethopia will change warlords like shoes, when they become uncooperative, recruiting new groups. This continues untill Ethopia's plans are firmly grounded, which no one will be able to reverse it. If anyone compares Ethopia's plan with the disoreintation of warlords then he is simply naive. We are not going to let that happen. Art's situation is little different, If it becomes another dictatorial regimes then we have no choice to but to wage a crusade agianst it too. This is where Wanaagasane's concern will be addressed, but before we do that we should help them defend our national interest and restore order. About the closing of Somalinet office in Xamar, if it is true, I had nothing to do with. I just warned that such irresponsible behavior at difficult time might bring some consequences, and the Somalinet played into the hand of Art's people. Freedom and responsibility go together. If Art's people start closing all independent media, because they don't like it then we have to fight vigorously to get them back. Mad Mac, I know where you coming from and it is fine, but don't hide it just say State Department will be happier with Ethopia's plan. You tried in 1993 it did not work, what makes you think it will work this time. The transition from centralized state to a less centralized must be gradual, peaceful, and carried out by informed indeginous intellectuals who are acting in the best interest of Somali people. Not warlords, not Ethopia, not the State Department, not now. About those who imply Somalis hate each other naturally, it is just a false claim. It is proven that clan,race,religion,class are not inherently conflictual, they are manipulated by the elite for their own ends. It our task to change that trend not to resign over it. Finally lets prioritize the task 1. Make sure Ethopia's plans do not work. 2. Return to somalia normalcy, by strengthening the state, and emphasizing good will among somalis. 3. Make sure Art's goverment abides the law and respects civil liberty. All these require battles with its up and downs, but in the end determination, and Somali bride will lead us into victory. Mahir you can count on me.
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| | Friday, February 02, 2001 - 06:43 pm a little concert that i call BRING IT ON....THE TENTH ETHIOPIAN FIEFDOMS DADKAN MAXAA WAALAY? DAGAAL YAA BILAABAY? NABADA YAA DIIDAN? DAGAAL DAGAAL OOGAA BILAABAY NABADDA DGAAAL OOGAA DIIDAN DADKAN DAGAAL OOGAA WAALAY? AIDID..I DID I DID TOO .. HEY MY NAME IS SLIM SHADY AIDID JUNIOR AM THE SKINNIEST MOTHERFUCKER YEAH U KNOW MY NAME AM ATO I AM THE MOST POWERFUL I WORK FOR CIA YEAH I OWN SOMALIA DAMN AM MOSES THE DARK PROPHET OF MEDINA YEAH AM THE HAAJI I WENT TO MECCA AND AM INNOCENT NOW AM PURE I CCAN CONTINUE KILLING BRING SOME MINES LET'S BOMB THE WHOLE PLACE AM QANYARE AM A LITTLE GUY DON'T UNDERESTIMATE ME I CAN BLOW THE WHOLE NATION YEAH AM POWERFUL TOO AND AM STILL POWER HUNGRY.. DON'T BLAME THE WARLORD. HE BELONGS TO YOUR TRIBE. HE IS FIGHTING FOR YOU. HE NEEDS MORE ARMY YEAH GO AND SUPPORT HIM BRING THE ETHIOPIANS DIVIDE THE COUNTRY INTO FIEFDOMS DALKA QAYBI DADKA DULEE DUNIDA DAWARSO DIINTAADA DHAAF DIBADAHA WAREEG ADEEROOW I DAA EEDOO I DHAAF ABTIYOOW MA KU AQAAN NIGGA I LIKE U NIGGA I LOVE U NIGGA U COOL NIGGA U DECENT AM DOWN WITH U RECEYCLE, RE- USE, REMEMBER, HE IS COLONEL HE IS GENERAL HE IS A MINISTER HE IS AN EX PARLIAMENTARIAN. HE IS EGAL I OWN HARGEYSA I CAN CORRUPT ALL AND STILL ENJOY POWER YEAH MY FOLLOWERS HOW MANY QAT YOU LIKE TO CHEW DAMN I CAN ALL RULE KISS MY ASS KISS MY FEET NO MORE SOMALIA HE IS ABDULAHI YUSUF AM A RUTHLESS TOO I CAN BE THE KING YEAH WE HAVE BEEN RULERS WE ARE THE SMARTES I AM THE SMARTEST I HATE THIS PLACE BARI IS DESERT LET ME KILL SOME LET ME CREATE ANOTHER WAR WE HAVE TO GO SOUTH WE CAN'T BE IN THIS DESERT SHUT UP, AM THE KING HE IS ALI KHALEEF I STOLE SOME MONEY I SPEAK ENGLISH I AM A PROFESSOR I CAN STILL MORE MONEY I LIKE HANMAR I CAN SET UP MY CABLE TV STATIONS HERE YEAH I OWN ALL HE IS MORGAN I KILLED FOR LIFE I LIKE TO KILL SEND ME BACK TO HARGEYSA LET BARBEQUE SOME MORE PEOPLE YEAH I ALSO WANNA BURN KISMAAYO HE IS SHAATIGADUUD YEAH ARIIREEY YEAH AM LUNATIC I WANNA KILL DEEROW AM EELAAY NO ONE ESE IS I OWN ELLAYS MAAAYMAAYS YEAH I WANNA BE THE THIEF OF BAYDHABO YEAH I WANNA BE THE PRINCE OF BUUR YEAH I WANNA BE THE CHIEF OF DIINSOOR HE IS THE PRESIDEN HIS NAME IS ABDULQASIM HE IS WADAAD HE IS A FUNDEMENTALSIT YES MELES DOESN' LIKE HIM YEAH AM GENERAL MASLAX AM GENERAL ADAN GABYOOW WE WERE ONCE LIVING IN BIG VILLAS WE WERE MINISTERS OF DEFENCE WE KILLED FOR FUN WE STILL REMINISCE AM COLONEL BIIHI NO MORE MAREHAN PUT DOWN IF I CAN'T RULE LIKE MY DAD AFWEEYNE IF I CAN'T RULE HAMAR AGAIN WHY NOT GARBAHAAREEY HEY I DON'T LIKE THOSE WHO KICKED MY ASS BACK THEN BRING SOME ETHIOPIAN I HAVE ETHIOPIAN TROOPS I WILL KILL SOME SOMALIS I WILL TAKE OVER KISMAAYO NO, NO MORE SOMALIA WE ARE SOMALILAND WE WERE BRITISH OLONY WE WOULD JOIN THE ENGLAND WE BELONG TO COMMON WEALTH NATIONS. OH NO LAASCOONOOD IS PART OF PUNTLAND NO IT'S PART OF SOMALILAND ISAAQ VERSEUS MAJEERTEEN WHERE IS DHULBAHANTE. WHERE IS WARSANGEELI MORE FIGHTING, MORE KILLINGS. OK IT'S OUR TURN, WE ARE AWDAL REPUBLIC IT'S OUR TURN TOO, WE ARE HIIRAAN LAND IT'S OUR TURN TOO, WE ARE JUBBALAND SOMALILAND, PUNTLAND, JOWHAR LAND, NO SKIES, NO SEAS, MORE REFUGEES, MORE FAMINE, MORE DRAUGHTS, LET'S FORGET THEM NO WE CAN'T OH AFRICA WE ARE THE WORLD , WE ARE THE CHILDREN LET'S MAKE THE WORLD A BETTER PLACE BONO, MANDELA IN MOGADISHU YOUNG TECHNICALS ARE ALL OVER SAUDI RED CRESCENT SOCIETIES AL-ITIHAD IS BACK WE DECLARE JIHAD LET'S KILL ABDIKASIM HAWIYE IS WIPED OUT MOGADIHU IS RUN BY DOGS.. AFTER A CENTURY I HATE HAWIYE I HATE ISAAQ WE ARE SOMALILAND I HATE DAAROOD, WE ARE PUNTLAND RECYCLE RECEYCLE RECYCLE
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| | Friday, February 02, 2001 - 09:26 pm Durgal, I think if the president wasn't hawiya this government wouldn't dare to go to Mogadisho. Can you deny this? Why can't we have federal govt now, if clan strategy is proven to be successful by the new TNG. Federal system of governing can be implemented right now not later, when it's too late. I am sure, with a country based on clan traditon, another Siad Barre coup is on the way!! Federalist
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| | Friday, February 02, 2001 - 11:35 pm with all the respect ladies and gentlemen ,we all know what the Ethiopian ambitions are and their stooges .but there is one think I strogly feel to mention before and that is, there is a notion among the Somali's that ill feeling toward some of the warlords commit crime against other Somali's ..until we rally and show those who responsible who ever they are you will be accountable your deeds and we will bring you Justice .there will be no healing . and how you expect people who feel they are victims to show you solidarity .they do love their country as much as any one loves their country . and all of you if you want the truth instead of making riots Ethiopian Embassies let's do it in Somalia every major city and show the world we Somalians are taking back their country from the WArlords and the Ethiopians .it is been happening through out the world and brougth down powerful regimes ..????
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| | Saturday, February 03, 2001 - 03:42 am Durgal,( the social sceintist or student of social sceintist???? I am puzzled by the title!!! which one is the correct form. ( NB I did not imply that the Somalis hate each other. I said it clearly and agred with Verbal) However, I wish I could agree with you that the Somalis do not hate each other but sadly they do. It is sad, it is unfurtunate and it is the reason behind our desister.I agree and It is true clan, race etc are not inherently confluctual and agree that they are manupulated by elite who have selfinterest.However, It is the last reason what all is comes down. I mean the worlords used the clan system that the Somalis are divivded and unfurtunetly it is too late to say the Somali caln system it harmless. ( I agree there many poeple who do not hate or take againgst the other because of their clan). Going back to the subject in hand. I think, I cannot cast-out mentioning again that our problem is based on clan. But, unlike most of the poeple here who beleive each clan should set up their own government because that is the only way we can have peace. I beleave the opposite. I beleave a centralised government should bring the peace. I think, we somalis do not respect democracy neather do we understand it. We need a powerfull central government that controls over all the somali regions. If we do not have this, we will continue fighting ever. why?? beacuse, I will give you an example, if the North and the Puntaland stand on their own. In the North there are other somali clans that would not like that idea, so they will keep fighting againsgt the Isaqs. The Puntland would want have Kismayo. But the Daroots in the Southwest ( marehan and Ogaden, Am I right) do not want that. so the fighting would go on. the Hawiye, in Mugadishu, do have their disagreements. And Ethopia will take advantage from this. They would always have a worlord, a scum, a traitor who would sold his mothers and sisters to anyone that satisfies his interest. How we would get this government or whether Abdulqasim is cabaple of doing this , I do not know. May be a mallitry coup would be the answer. At the moment, I as a muslim, a lady in the west, in my early twenties, only Duah is my weapon. I pary that Abdul qasem if has a good intention to serve both for Islam and the Somalis. that he will not take sides. May Allah help him. NB. I beleive Mogadishu should not be the capital. I was born there. so many popel from other regions were. Most of theSomalis from differernt clan literary built Mugadishu. BUt they were literary ripped off. I think, every clan should built were they beleave it is theirs. Then, they will care about it and would not be victimised ever again. And Insha Allah, for the decades to come we will be ( or our future childeren) be different from us. Mahir I am not in the Uk right now but you can count on me. By Arawello
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| | Saturday, February 03, 2001 - 03:47 am Anon We are trying to bring all the Somalis in various parts of the world. Mahir
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| | Saturday, February 03, 2001 - 03:50 am Mahir, My user name is Arawello.
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| | Saturday, February 03, 2001 - 04:51 am Respect to Durgal for bringing up this subject. I as you might or might not know, me, my brother(The Lion) and several others are trying to unite and education our generation, because Somalia's position in the next 10, 20, 30 years from now depends on us. I agree with you, Ethopia is trying to take over Somalia region by region, and because there is no unity, how can one clan defend itself from a nation like Ethopia?. We need as many Somalia as possible to became successful, and then come together and do something about it. Like Durgal said, we have some time. We need to first work on our self.
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| | Saturday, February 03, 2001 - 04:55 am Spike Luu, thanks, i really enjoyed the concert! That was fun and very true. It's time we see ourselves as we are, and not preach concepts we don't even understand what they mean. Now, it's not difficult for a crowd of already conspiracy-oriented somalis to agree on that Ethiopia has its "murky plans" for Somalia. But take them one by one and ask the "Hawias" "What is exactly you think the Darodds are up to" and the answer will certainely be again "murky plans" Now take a "Darodd" or "Issaq" and ask them about the plans of other clans than their own: you guessed it, "murky plans". Ladies and gentlemen there are no "murky plans", not from the ethiopians, not from the darodds, not from the hawias nor from the issaqs. Let's stop this pranoid, mistrust and war-footing attitude. All depends on how YOU behave. Show the other person, WHOEVER IS HE, your understanding, trust and willingness of co-operation and you get exactly the same from him as well. It's us, the educated who should promote these ideas among our people, not re-launch the "good old" and tried primitive attitudes of our for-fathers, clothed with western "wordings". The fact that Ethiopia has christian rulers, even if the state itself is secular, or we despute some territories that has self-rule and is called "Kilin 5", but we couldn't even settle for what we would call it "Ogaden" for some, "Somali Galbed" for others or a ruthless looter of other somalis properties, new-born fundamentalist points his accusing finger on it, all this doesn't prove that Ethiopia has "murky plans" for Somalia. If you put aside these presumptions aside, you will find that, to the contrary, the ethiopians have tried and would genuinely like to get a united, peace-minded Somalia as they neighbour and has no interest to have an anarchy along their border. Now, does somalis themselves want a united, peace-minded state of their own, is a different matter alltogether!. So, please stop the incitement and hatred, we have had enough of it. After thousand years, whatever governement we get, it has to deal peacefully with Ethiopia, if we are to prosper. The time of plitz raids, and quick conversions are over. And unfortionately, however much we like, we can never place ourselves in the fold of our beloved arab libyans and sudanis!. Let's at leat be realistic!.
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| | Saturday, February 03, 2001 - 05:04 am Hassan; Brother Do contact me throgough the email I have provided above. Mahir
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| | Saturday, February 03, 2001 - 05:22 am Durgal your one pride guy man and I agree with lots of things you said. I don't know much about politics and years and years I tried not to pay attention what is going on back home, since I live in the state and live peacefully. but deep down inside that is not the reality we should all pay attention and something about it, but how? some ppl are saying we shouldn't start a war with the Ethiopians,but the question is should we trade our dignity for peace? should we watch the Ethiopians taking over the country region by region using the warlords? should we watch our women's getting raped by a fucking Ethiopians? the answer by every som person is NO, the time is now and we should something right now, but how? I am wiling to 100% but where do we start? mahdi.
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| | Saturday, February 03, 2001 - 06:45 am Assalamu Alaikum, The topic is about the Ethiopian Threat! Now lets reflect for a second and analyze the situation. Ethiopians and Somalis never had good relations. In fact, there can be no good relations with Ethiopia while it controls Somali-Galbeed. For instance, Ethiopia is covertly leaving the Djibouti port for other African countries such as Kenya and Sudan; leaving Djibouti with no revenues and bad relations with Eritrea (Djibouti took sides in the Ethio-Eritrean War). Therefore, we know Ethiopia does not want the best interest of Somalis. If it did, it would have recognized the Republic of Somaliland. Ethiopia just wants its interests, Somalis with no recognized government to deal as it wishes. Right now Ethiopia handles the Banking of Somaliland. The advantage is people are linked with the world economy. The disadvantage is, why should we be dependent on Ethiopia? From this we can conclude Ethiopia's intentions are very scary indeed. However what scares me the most is the Somali people themselves. They would rather return to the rule of notorious war criminals rather than iron out the wrinkles in their differences. So what is the solution to our dilemma? It is prudent that we exhaust our efforts into dealing with our internal issues, rather than running around in international circles lobbying for aid. Don't blame Ethiopia because it is has Somalis in Check, lets regroup before it is Check Mate. As long as you blame Ethiopia and still cling on the TNG plagued by criminals, don't expect any miracles any time soon. Wassalam Wabilaahi Towfiiq
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| | Saturday, February 03, 2001 - 06:59 am I agree with the brother Mr, before we can go around asking for international aid, we should sort out our difference, get rid off the past and this hatred that plagues us. The blame is not on Eithopia, the blame is on us for being so divided and allowing this happen.
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| | Saturday, February 03, 2001 - 03:53 pm high there ladies and gentlemen it seem to be lot of us worrying and debating more what kind gov'ment we will have ,unfortunate this is the darkest time of our history ,and worst generations of Somalia , I am talking about Somali Youth ,. don't miss understand me I do care and love all Somali's no matter what part of Somalia they come from ,but it seem to be lately they out of touch . let me go back to the topic I think we will have plenty of time to debate what Gov'ment we will have .. the foccus now eminent is how we take back our country from the Ethiopian aggressions with their stooges or warlords ???? One think will be guarantee no matter what kind gov'ment in the future Somalia will have We will not put our Eggs One basket
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| | Saturday, February 03, 2001 - 06:45 pm You have Amazing ability to commit collective Amnesia and totally blind yourselves from the reality. Lets but the record straight. our biggest Enemy is not Ethiopians nor Israel, Al-islah, Ithahad etc. We Somali people are responsible our present situation. I will give you an example. The World War Two The Germans Captured all Europe except the Britain. I ask you what did the European and their allied Nations did to stop the War? did the European Ask the Victories Germany who flattened all Europe to Form European Government? Lets go back how we Ended in this mess we are in at this occasion and I dread what to come. Last organized Djibouti Conference inflated dying flames, and now we are worried Ethiopians invading Somalia when we have given the perfect opportunity to do so. The reason behind all this is same like what happened Back early Nineties when USA led United nations peace keepers landed in Somalia. Instead of telling like Europeans did to Germany either vacate the captured lands or else? we Somalis rewarded those who were responsible the killing and mayhem and awarded the seat of the president and Job of making peace. what did they do then, the first thing they decided to do was to liquidate the Warlord who was contesting with them in Mogadishu and invaded Balcad. second they sent peaceful areas to a hired mercenaries to distribute so they can beg those who will listen them and get more Money to buy Weapons, They send Weapons and Militiaman to strengthen the Lands they already were Squatting on. They promised fanatics like Al-ithahad Al-Islah if they support their grand plan they will make Taliban like Muslim country in Somalia. they Told Rogue Arab states they will make the country where they can use as a base to spread their vile policies. they promised Horn of Africa will never be peace to Egypt so Ethiopia will never be able to negotiate Nile water with them. all the above agreed to supply them Weapons and lot of Money. why do you expect the Warlords to do sit and wait till they are under the Arta Gangs? they went their way to bring their side more weapons and promised Ethiopia and anyone Else who have interest more then Arta Hooligans Promised to deliver to their new patrons? So ask yourself who is to blame the Warlords and all the tribes who have been show the only ticked to Respect, more MP and even to seat of Presidency is to commit murders,rape and occupy territory and property?!! Somalis Asked the Clan ( like the Germans, Serbian, Khmer rouge) who was responsible most destruction, killing, maiming Raping to Bring Peace to Somalia? and this is the reasoning behind this This Arta Consortium, Those who did the Crimes can bring to and End Somali crises?what a Joke and you blame the Warlords who are competing this Arta Gang and doing their part of the bargain.
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| | Sunday, February 04, 2001 - 06:16 am jeego you are making a good point, but this is not the time for a finger pointing, right now we need to talk about how we regain our country from Ethiopia before is too late. I know they had a big demonstration in boosaso against abdullahi yosuf government,and t Ethiopia and it was a serious one, now we need in all other states to do the same, and we should have same goal"MIDNIMO" IT IS UP TO US, LET US NOT POINT FINGER TO EACH OTHER AND DO SOMETHING NOW. UNITE.......... PEACE. MAHDI
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| | Sunday, February 04, 2001 - 10:58 am Hello Jeego I can see your Opinion but you must distinguish two, OneI agree 100% those who commit this savage criminals will be hold accountable their crime and I don't know how long it will take but they will be brougth to justice either he is warlord or Art Gov'mnt or colonel or general regardless time will come to put them behind bars . I don't want compare but for Example the Nazi Germans they are still hunting down . those who responsible in Somalia they will get their time . the second One I totally disagree with you Ethiopia is fueling our problems and creating more animosities among the Somali's for her strong desier. they don't care either You Somaliland or Puntland or Art Gov'mnt . they have in their mind One goal disable Somalia is that What you want ? I will cont. than You
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| | Sunday, February 04, 2001 - 02:09 pm I am proud to call myself Somali if there are many people like you out there; Mahir, Ali Ghedi, Mahad and all of the rest of the gang, our sisters too. Spike Luu keep going man. Hassan, you are the brother of that kid Lion, he is impressive man. He is an original thinker,and with the right poeple around him he can be something. Any way nice meeting you. Mahir thanks for your organization, I did not post this topic for the sake of discusion, you recognized that and you are making it something. If there are some people out there who heard this message please step forward and join us, Somalia belongs to you as much as it belongs to us. We can make it better place to live, a place where God loves. We have extremely difficult situation but can tackle it in two ways. First, strengthen the position of anti-Ethopian Somalis, mainly Art's people and other regions. It is good to hear that we have anti-Xabasho demos in some parts of the country, Boosaaso, Baardhere. And like Mahdi said We need to expand these demos into other regions of somalia. Agian, we can be part of this awareness, for instance talk to your folks at home and explain to them what is at stake and win over them. No question we have a lot of savages who only see when they get hit, but lets talk to anyone who is listening both in Somalia and here. I agree with Mr and Hassan that Art's people are not doing their job, they are looking for Aid even though they control one fifth of Xamar. In addition, patriotic songs alone would not get the job done. In other words their PR is not sinking in, even though it is the real one. Shake up the foundation, substantiate your claims, take Audio or Visual components, get some evidence of the presence of the enemy in somalia, and the nature of his visit. Intercept telecomminication lines, then expose them to the poeple. Pay visit to the "radical states" like Iran and you will see people listening. In Xamar wage a campiang against the power base of Caato and Caydiid, reason with their suporters, buy off some poeple. Where you going to get the money, may be its time to send that useless parliement to vacation, and use their expenses. Again shake up so-called government, people without people have to go, and bring some influential somalis with real back up into the game. My goodness what is happeneing with this Art people. Any way that is their job. What about us? Like Mahir said we are going to be the real line of defence in somalia, especially within the next few years. Guys remember that Somali saying " Shimbirba shimbirteeda ayey laduushaa" that is what is happening now. For the first time in my life, I feel like I belong to community of ideas. Forget somalis with African American mentality,"don't care about anything". Our job is two fold one is recruite, talented somali kids, it does not matter if they are your relative or someone else. Take him on your shoulders, be there for him, contribute to their success, and we all win. Second, those of us who are united in restoration of the Somali dignity, we need to take mahir's project seriously, grow together,and set great example. I don't believe qualification, I believe ideas and results.
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| | Sunday, February 04, 2001 - 07:39 pm This is really interesting and extremely sad discussion. It is intresting because you have the chance to see the never-ending deceptions of politics, but it is also sad because you are its victum, our people are suffering as result of these deceptions. when I posted this article initailly I was able to figure out one side of the puzzle, and as result I was right on one thing and wrong about another. I was right about us making the neccessary preparations in order to save Somalia. This responsibilty is much more real now than it was in my last comment. The thing I was wrong about was my assessment of Art's people. I had my suspicions but I could not make the connections. But now,I must say sadly that after figuring out the other side of puzzle, Art's people are also the enemy of the somali people, its national interest. This is the reason. A lot of people remember where Art's group originated, but few can make the connection between the location of the conference and it is influence on Art's government. The official explanation of conference was to reconcile somalis and form a much needed goverment that would bring back order. However the real nature of that conference was to sell Somalia natural resources to French companies,and in return Bare's old timers would return to power. It is evident now that the conference was sponsored by french Oil companies. This claim is further strengthened by the agreement between three french companies, Total,Fina,ELF and Art's people in Mogadishu where these companies would start 6 year project in southern somalia. How can a group that controls one fifth of Mogadishu decide what somali people want. Somali people want peace, water, food health, and so on. They are tired, they are betrayed, they want these God forsaken people to disappear. What this means now? It means that the warlords have sold somalia's natural resources to the State Department which is using Ethopian troops. Ethopia wants to get its peice in somalia, and make sure that somalia stays weak, and by helping the state department, Ethopia, will be given the task of policing somalia, and protecting Conoco's interest. On the other hand the French companies will strengthen Art's government.So somali people will be caught up between these OIL Civil War. This is what is happening in parts of African continent, Siereleone, Congo. If you look at the ground development in Somalia, you would notice Ethopia sending is two military brigades to Southern Somalia where the French companies are scheduled to dig. It seems we have no one to turn but God and ourselves, we have to find ourselves, the Soul of our people. Many people have made various claims about the intelligence and the bravery of somali people, it has never been subjected to this kind of test yet. This is life and death situation. The great Sufi poet Jalaalu Din Rumi once siad " Sometimes there is no one to talk to, you must just set out on your own" It seems we are in that position my dear fellow Somalis.
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| | Sunday, February 04, 2001 - 08:43 pm Well said Durgal. For the past ten years I never listened to what a southern man has to say, simply because of what have they done to our country. I have to admit that you convinced me that you are sincere about your nationalism campaign. From your last post I sense that you no longer support arta faction and you are organising young somalis to support your views. Why not? Let's make a new SYL. For the sake of our country I am in your group (sceptic). Let me know the rest through my email. And keep up the good work.
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| | Monday, February 05, 2001 - 02:53 am Hello every body again! I liked Jeego's article and i hope it'll be an eye-opener to many manipulated somalis. Reading the genteleman Mr's article, i've seen one of the striking examples of the "collective amnesia" or wonder-wonder land situation we live in. The genteleman writes: "Therefore, we know Ethiopia does not want the best interest of Somalis. If it did, it would have recognized the Republic of Somaliland". What kind of logic is this?. To the contrary, the vast majority of somalis, and i am the first of them, would've been 100% convinced that Ethiopia is a deadly enemmy had it unilaterally recognised the so called "Republic of Somaliland". Not to mention that another gentelman even thanked Mr. for his nationalistic stand!. This reminds me a conversation i had with some of my somali acquaintances recently. When the situation of the alleged Ethiopian interferences came up and i said to them: "What about if the whole campaign is a desperate act of a failing fundamentalist, and that those regions are ruled by clan worlords just as the rest of the county?". One of them gave the following answer, which i suspect the other two shared with him. He said: "Of course, Ethiopia doesn't want Somalia to recover BECAUSE had it been Ethiopia which has collapsed, Somalia would never have allowed to recover" . So that was also another logic of sorts, which made Ethiopia guilty!. And what do you make of the latest dramatic twists and turns of Mr. Durgals reasoning. It seems that he lately discovered the Mr. Qaasim & Co. aren't fanatic enough to him and didn't escalate the battle to even wider proportions. Nor did they, according to him, aligned themselves enough with the respected states of Iran, Afghanistan, Libya, Sudan....! He realised that even though Mr. Qaasim promised to persue the cause of fanaticism and forgo "aduunyo", he liked the bucks after all and pocketed them big time!. What can i say, my heart bleeds for you! Let me make my position very clear. I'm pained, just as every somali brother and sister of the dismal state we are in, today. I'm also opposed categorically that an inch of Somalia territory to be under occupation of any foreign state. I appricaite some of the solutions put forward and i'll also write my opinions on the subject later on, if and when i get time. So long.
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| | Monday, February 05, 2001 - 05:02 am Comrades Look, you guys need to pack in the paranoid, conspiratorial theories and stay focussed on what's really screwing Somalia - and that's somalis. Not Ethiopians or the "State department" or whoever. Focus on what's really the issue here, Somali instability caused by Somalis. regardless of who supports whom, at the end of the day, Somalis are causing their own problems. Durgal - you're not stupid but you need to stop focussing your attention on Ethiopia and start thinking about how Somalia can achieve stability and continued economic growth. Again, what Somalis needs to do is allay Ethiopias fears concerning the Ogaden. Only then will Ethiopia feel comfortable with a united Somalia. Start thinking of Ethiopia as a potential trading partner instead of as a potential enemy. Think about a horn of Africa trade agreement. Think of the shortfalls and requirements on the horn and how these potential markets can be exploited. The possibililities are limitless. Solar energy (The horn is rich here - if you can exploit it). Farming (Somalia should be a food exporter), light industry, trnasit transpotation, etc. If Somalia wants to neutralize Ethiopia as a military threat then it needs to embrace Ethiopians - not threaten them. Somalia can't win a military campaign anyway unless Ethiopia disintegrates. If that happens and Ethiopia ends up like Somalia - ungoverned and unstable, this can only have harsh economic consequences for Somalia.
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| | Monday, February 05, 2001 - 05:21 am I should have taken political science instead of engineering!!!  not... Istakhfurullah I think politics is the game of the sheytan... that is the only reason no good sheikh will ever take part in politics... well i never ever ever ever heard about even 1... Nabad gelyo
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| | Monday, February 05, 2001 - 05:47 am I have some comments to Jeego, I do agree that Somalis is responsible their problem. But all other augments does not make sense, you do not have either any logic or fact to support your ideas. German is a country and was defeated other countries. So there is no comparison the situation in Germany 50 years ago and Somalia today. In Somalia no one win the civil war and there are no way to punish anyone we had chance when siyad barre regime collapsed 1991 but we did not take advantage. In the U.S.A civil war all people accept 500 got amnesty in fact one side won. In Somali, I do not think we will be able to punish everyone because it is very hard to decide who are criminals because we all participated in different way. Even you show strong partition ideas. Why you have to mention Egypt and Ethiopia relation? Ethiopia only can make peace in the region. Even if they leave the Republic of Somalia, the problem will not be solve. The ethnic Christen in Ethiopia must respect and accept the right of 50% Muslim people in Ethiopia which even do not have any basic rights. Why do you want ignore the right of Somali and Oromo people when you are asking your rights. Do you need to support Ethiopia aggression and injustice because you do not like the 3% c/qaasim tribe? I am very disappointed for you, you sound like a warlord without Islam and moral.
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| | Monday, February 05, 2001 - 06:20 am i hate to admit but i agree with mr gaal aka Mad Mac......Durgal i admire your patriotism but you are missing one key thing....n that's fighting for justice and laying down the ground rules for somalia's future......supporting a one centralised goverment is a mistake and it is gonna take us the same path we have been before ....we wanna somalia where nobody is taken for granted....where the lives and the basic human dignity are safeguarded......a centralised gov will always be run by somali powerful clans...those less agressive or peaceful will be left behind.....a prime example could be how the post independence regimes abuse the rights and the privelages of the Maymay people...somali's fastest growing population and one of the biggest political parties back than....these people has every right to fight their own state....give one reason why they shouldn't....the succesive regimes abused them and civil war becomenightmare for them....loosing the most in terms of human lives and property.....if yu ask me....i said hell with qassim's fanatics.....n that's coz i like the warlords...it is coz i have respect for the human life....nobody has the right to take it away.......n we need federalism.....yu gotta give the north a reason and incentive to join somalia...and the quite frankly i don't wanna one crazy man at top calling all shots...the power got be balanced....as for ethopia...i think if we solve own problems...there will be no much of room for ethopia to maneuver anything peace
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| | Monday, February 05, 2001 - 08:40 am Mr soomaali yankee, I do not have problem if you admire your country man's idea. Fedralisem solves power sharing? Can you tell me how many miniroty senator is in the U.S senate. If we choose fedralismen it will be end of minority representative in our society. This will lead a new civil war. There are more tribes than majeerteen,raxanweyn,isaaq and abgaal which will benefit four fedral state.
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| | Monday, February 05, 2001 - 10:15 am Somali state disappointed by TNG's attempt to make Ethiopia scapegoat for its internal havoc: Official Addis Ababa, Jan. 15(ENA)-- Head of the Somali State Administration says the Somali people and government are disappointed by the recent statement of the Somalian Transitional National Government (TNG) accusing Ethiopia of trying to intervene in the internal affairs of that country. Abdureshid Duleni told ENA on Sunday that TNG's groundless allegation has discredited Ethiopia's efforts to help the Somalis achieve national reconciliation and establish a broad-based national government. The government of Ethiopia has been in the vanguard to make successful the conference held in Djibouti to set up a transitional government in the war-torn Somalia, the head said. He said Ethiopia had hosted several meetings among the various faction groups of Somalia to end anarchy and bring about peace and stability in that country. Ethiopia has offered a save heaven to hundreds and thousands of Somali people, who fled their country to escape a brutal civil war in Somalia, Abdureshid said. There are still over 120,000 Somali refugees taking shelter in Ethiopian refugee camps, he said, adding over 100,000 other Somali citizens are leading a peaceful life in various parts of Ethiopia including the capital city, Addis Ababa. The head described as improper TNG's attempt to make Ethiopia scapegoat for its internal crisis. Abdureshid said the Somali State government and people would rally behind the Ethiopian government in its efforts to set up a broad-based government in Somalia and ensure border security in the area.
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| | Monday, February 05, 2001 - 10:23 am salaams, i am dissapointed that i am the only lady on this issue. Kamal, I agree with you. Durgal, Though, I have common interest with you, that is peace and stability in Somlia. I fair for the Somali external affairs when you and Wanagsane have to repsresent us. You guys need to be diplomatic than warriors. Mahir, what is the plan and Have you cont on me? MadMAc, Are you still alive man??? Arawello
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| | Monday, February 05, 2001 - 11:30 am Spike thanx for the insight man! Here's my view about Etheopia's involvement in Somalia. It's mine and mine only! Personally, I don't blame Ethiopia for Somalia's downfall. It is true that This country is Somalia's worst enemy. It is also true that Etheopia rules Somali people and land by force and the international community sided with it over the border dispute. Ethiopia always arms the weak to maintain balance in Somalia's power struggle. it is a very simple math - the rule of thumb: Always support the underdog to keep Somalia on its kneels. What really bugs me the most is that people like Durgal don't see what caused Somali people who hate Etheopia like any other Somalis cross the border and get a helping hand from Ethiopia? Somalia is now divided into many fiefdoms and majority if these factions/governments don't have any problem with Ethiopia. The following is a list of political powers who have no problem with Ethiopia at this time: 1- Somaliland; 2- Puntland; 3- RRA. The above two adminsitrations and RRA control over 2/3 of Somalia. Also many other faction leaders such as Aidid, Atto, Qanyare and Sudi have no trouble with Ethiopia. The only faction who's at odds with Ethiopia is the transisional government who controls less than 1% of Somalia. I am 100% sure that Ethiopia would side with the government if other factions and administations get together and create a powerful ally. Why? As I said, Etheopia's mission in Somalia is to maintain power balance between opposing forces. Carta camp is making a very big mistke by labelling other factions/adminsitrations as traitors. If Carta group is honest and fair to everyone no one would ever cross the border in the first place. I am asking those of us who are now crying out loud where were you when Ethiopia was arming Aidid and USC who turned Somalia into graveyards? How come Abdiqasim never condenmed his clansmen's actions in Mogadishu? He was in Mogadishu when his clansmen were raping and maiming Somali nationals? The new government may have civilian members from other clans but its forces are composed of former USC fighters. I don't see this government as a national government. As a matter of fact I see it as a new USC sub-faction in the block.
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| | Monday, February 05, 2001 - 05:18 pm Hi there everybody we all have brilliant Ideas and high degree of Inteligent people here. Durgal,Mahir,Mehdi very pure honest Somali's who wants to see this suffering of our people must stop without our archer enemy . woderful gentlemen . Aden and Jeego you absolutely right we Somali's are responsible and brought into this mess ourself and we must clean it .but we must also unite for the sake of our Country. than You .. Mad Mac your strategy is realy very good but how we going to implement fifteen warlords are competing our country .yes healthy Economy will help most problems vanish and will bring stability in the region .but we need miracles that can unite all the Warlords...or My brother Durgal said lets kill the warlords One by One so we can safe block by block..One Somali.
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| | Monday, February 05, 2001 - 05:47 pm Diiriye You seem to be missing the point? clan is not a Germany nor I wish any harm for any Somali Clan. remember We are all Victims and same time all guilty of supporting with out restraining all this Vultures who happen to belong your clan or my clan regardless of their Agend, as to his disappointment my friend DURGAL have just found out.!! We must never reward Aggression. this would be an exemple to stop this happening again in the future, for any clan with grand ambition of rulling whole of the Somalia.(Unfortunatly since Djabouti Conference every clan is racing to get as much weopens as they can get, and have a shot at the seat of the running the Country) funny eh. We must support those who maintain stabilty. and look ways to achieve stability for our troubled Country and its people. We should never kill each other for any foreing interest and their highly paid Somali Valtures.
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| | Tuesday, February 06, 2001 - 06:56 am Durgal, you adressed me earlier that Ethiopia was not problem milaterly. Sorry bro, i read today one of the Somali Internet newspapers that only 2- lieutenet(xiddigle)controls whole Luq-Ganaane and 1-lieutenet(laba xiddigle)controls Buulo-Xaawo and only one Colonel stationed Dooloow. For me that is enough of humilation knowing back then 1977 those regions when i was leaving the country through Kenya how we were strong milaterly. So brother i prefer to peace with Ethiopians at the moment when we are in a situation which is difficult to most of us to differenciate who is the bad and traitor guy and who is a good and patriotic guy. Ethiopia and Somalia had enough animosity and we dont need to make worse than already its now so i prefer to make peace with Xabashi. Though i am supporter of TNG but i disagree this campaign towards Ethiopia and everyone who is camaigning animosity to Ethiopians. We need peace and friendship with all the countries sorounding us then we will make a progress and prosperity our people in the region.
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| | Tuesday, February 06, 2001 - 11:11 am Assalamu Alaikum, Call me cynical, but you would all advocate for peace with Ethiopia, when you can't live peacefully among yourselves? You would rather bomb Hargeisa again rather than defend your country. What a shame. It is very short and simple, sovle your internal problems and never make a pack with the devil. Recently I came across an article that reports that there are businessmen from Isreal in Somaliland. What a shame. I guess no matter whether we are from Djibouti, Somalia, Somaliland,NFD, or Western Somalia, we are at the bottom of the pit. Wassalam Wabilaahi Towfiiq
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| | Tuesday, February 06, 2001 - 02:13 pm mad mac Durgal has tricked everyone into talking about his favourite topic- the Qasim regime. and the best way to form the Qasim regime is to talk about Ethiopia. Durgal You should be more worried about RRA Get of our land you blood suckers.
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| | Tuesday, February 06, 2001 - 05:20 pm Guuleed Welcome brother,we need to take back our country,and fight for those who can't fight for themselves.I don't mean by chatting, I mean business. Contact Mahir through email if he has not defected yet,that was joke. Mahir if you have my email send me all the gang's email. The rest of you who have nothing to contribute you just wasting your time. I have done some research about the legality of the reported transaction since every contract has some legal basis. Some contracts are signed under Savage laws others Western law,and still others Islamic laws. My questions was what the Shariica says about this latest transaction between Art's people and the french company Total, after all we are Muslims. There were two specific questions which I wanted the Shariica to answer. First, who owns these natural resources, is it the state or the community at large. Second, can one group, such Art's people take the liberty of signing a contract without the knowledge and the consent of other Somalis. The first question the Shariica rules that natural resources are collective or social property, it is not the government's property. According to Hadiith of prophet(Pbuh) natural resources, such as water, grass, fire are collective or social property. Further more, most of Islamic jurists agreed that natural resources are gifts of God. One of the most distinguished Islamic jurist, Ibn Taymiyyah believes that water, grass and fire are only examples, other instances having the same characteristics may also be included the list. This includes, all minerals coming out of free land as a collective property e.g. Naphtha,Gold,Silver,Salt,Oil, etc. The second question, follows the first answer, that natural resources are Gifts of God, thus no partner may act in a way injurious to the other partners. So from the shariica point of view Art's people have no foundation in Islamic law. In addition it is ironic that someone who cliams to be in favor of the institution of Islamic laws in Somalia to start his first ruling something which the Shariica totally opposes. You can figure out what is going to come next. I am not a jurist,I have just done some research so my question is where are those who make living on the behalf the shariica, why are they quiet. If someone says Sufi, they will go crazy. What this means? it means Art's people do not have a legitimate foundation at all, both in terms of decision making,particularly when it comes to our collective property; the natural resources, and its overall handling of the situation. They are criminals who are there only for themselves. Warlords are much worse, because they are giving the country to our arch enemy, Ethopia, without even knowing it. In short, we have to start from ground zero as though Somalia were under colonial rule and its people were sleeping savages. Our key responsibility is to prevent the coming Oil civil wars by educating whoever we come into contact. My next input of this discussion is PR paper lets distribute it. Print fifty copies and give it out to your local communities. I have already given out 100 copies. If you have any doubt what I am saying think of this. Art's people with their contract will start to move in where the Gold is. For their part Warlords/Ethopia/Conoco will make sure this never happens, the rest is simple, long civil war untill one of these groups is eliminated, which means killing 100,000, of Somalis. Conoco and Total are watching from the sidelines. "Hey my dog is going to beat yours." Our message now is DON'T FIGHT, lets get the word out.
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| | Tuesday, February 06, 2001 - 06:16 pm In The name of God the Merciful and the most Passionate. Dear Somalis, I would like to share with you the latest development from our beloved country. It is deeply troubling to learn that Somalia's natural resources, our collective property have been sold to foriegners by the infamous warlords who are not only responsible for the death of hundred of thousands of Somalis, but who are willing to hand over Somalia's history and destination to an enemy who cherishes nothing but the total destruction of our religion and our way of life. According to the Tradition of the prophet (Pbuh) natural resources such water, grass, fire are collective or social property. Most Islamic jurist agreed that natural resources are gifts from God thus no partner in the property may act in a way injurious to other partners. Other jurists, including one of the most distinguished Muslim jurist, Ibn Taymiyyah, believes that water,grass,and fire are only examples, other instances having the same characteristics may also be included the list. This includes all minerals coming out of free land as collective property e.g. Naphtha,Gold,Silver,Salt,Oil etc. Contrary to the Shariica's clear rullings, The new "Interim Government" have taken the liberty of selling Somalia natural resources to French companies. In addition, Warlord who are opposed to the Art's people(the government) are in their part selling Somalia's natural resources to American companies. The problem is since each company wants to get exclusive contract, Somalia's people will be cought in the middle. the french companies will support Art's people, while Warlords will get all the help they need from State Department through Ethopia. If you are in Somalia please DO NOT FIGHT for these Oil wars. In the Day of Judgement Allah will Ask you your deeds, beware! For the rest of Somalis, lets start educating our people on the true nature of these evil forces. Young Somalis, both in high schools and in colleges wake up return to your community. Ask what is happining lately, after all its your country. This is our first communication with you. Will keep in touch. Thank You. SNIC
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| | Tuesday, February 06, 2001 - 11:58 pm Its too late the Art and the warlords brought enough ammunitions and war machines the next two generations to kill each other .that is the fact on the ground...Clan consciousness and conflict among clans and subclans despite their sharing a common laguage,religion and customs , clan are integral to Somali life ..Clan consciousness has been described as centring around the struggle for recognition in all its forms_social,political economic and cultural rights and status... despite this clan consciousness the Somali community historically preserved its basic Unity because of the ralative homogeneity of the society . in 1943 the first Somali political party ,the Somali Youth club,was created and in 1947 the group changed its name to the Somali Youth League(SYL)and adopted the goals of unifying all Somalia territories and opposing Clannishness. today's youth worst generations go eat your Big Mac and we will count the body bugs ...............??
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| | Wednesday, February 07, 2001 - 05:56 am Durgal.....people disagree with you doesn't mean we are wasting our time here......we just stated our concerns....believe me we all want a greater somalia.....but we gotta clean up our act first....crimes have been commited...those who are responsible must brought to the justice or atleast they should acknowledge their wrong doings...i don't see the reason for me to support the boysin mogadisho...they are men looking for oppurtunity peace
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| | Wednesday, February 07, 2001 - 08:02 am hi folks what have you guys done lately? have you guys talked to your ppl back home and encourage them to do something? if you haven't you need to do so. folks thanx for the internet we have a good chance to get our messages across. TO ALIYOW and whoever agrees with him: we are not starting a war with ethiopians, they are. we are not in ethiopia they are in somalia. c'mon ppl wake up and stop pointing fingers. mahir i will email you and give you all the details. I gotta be honest first i welcomed the new government and had a high expectation but they disapointed me why? because this guy (abdiqasim) had the best chance to bring the ppl together and he didn't do so. he shouldn't hire or name a positions for members just to satisfy the clans, instead he should ask them what could they do. he should say can you go out and get your ppl and turn them against the warlords, but instead they sleeping the hotels in mogadisho doing nothing.for that matter i am disapointed that he didn't accomplish anything. but any way the focus now is ethiopia, ppl call your ppl, organize something, and lets be reunited for the sake of our country and our feature. later. mahdi
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| | Wednesday, February 07, 2001 - 09:30 am It is me agian, If you care about Somali people, distribute that open letter " Carro udoon (Snic)". It simply prevents the death of more somalis. I don't care if you agree with me or not, it is important that we get the word out. It is the sunnah to interfere two muslims and prevent war. Start it today, translate it, if you want, give out to Masjids friday prayer, comminity Caffee, and so on. Do your part. Mahdi thanks for understanding the gravity of the situation, and the importance of somalinet as distribution center. Again, I don't really like if you are in two groups: those who are caught in trivial matters and those who like to resign.
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| | Wednesday, February 07, 2001 - 10:19 am Durgal, I hope I am not among those you put down as time wasters or Am I? I think, what I said that You are a warrior, tells you a lot about yourself and you should appretiate. I am not your critic or as I have already figured out a woman ( You mentioned all the poeple's name and said sisters too when in facet I was the only woman wrote under here) Anyways, It is good when people have different views while at the sametime they have common agend. there are critics who would be your side but reading your writings I am a bit worried that you only expect one view and that is it. anyone one else has to be opposition. have you thought about what I mean you need to be a diplomatic??? where is your education if you cannot communicate with me. beleave me if you carry on the way you are now you won' get any where. I am bright young Somali lady who are willing to participate the re-buliding of Somalia. But not with poeple like you. Good by and good luck Arawello
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| | Thursday, February 08, 2001 - 09:19 am Somali-Yankee Sahib, I can't believe you and I are seeing the world the same way. I need to talk with you one on one. Please E-Mail me at iikorpsg2of@hq.c5.army.mil Looking forward to hearing from you. I won't be able to respond until Monday, but I will respond.
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| | Thursday, February 08, 2001 - 02:48 pm Somali yankee and Arawello, and the rest We have different views but we share the same dream, to unite our people. We need to work together to achieve this. Durgal is an individual, he is one of us I personally don't like some of his comments, that is his character and you can do nothing about it. Put aside your differences and work for your main goal. click this link to see what can we do when we work together. http://srg.somalitalk.com/denmark/aarhus/ I am not affiliated to any group and I am ready to work with you. What do you think people?, can we do it.
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| | Thursday, February 08, 2001 - 04:33 pm SKEPTICISM AND TRIBAL AFFLITION : To my disapointment I see folks, who otherwise would have been the redeemers of our beleaguered country, taking sides(presumably to their affilated group or clan). Some might argue how I have drawn this conclusion but after doing an extensive retrospect on some of the individuals who have contributed to this particlular topic, it is evident that they are blinding their souls from the hard cold fact, for the simple reason that it is not compatible with their affilated groups view. NUMERO UNO ENEMY: Numero uno fact : Ethopia has always been and will always be somalia's enemy as it currently occupies a large chunk of the somalian territory. If we are not able to see that then we are doomed and Somalia's future is very dim, by that I mean we are the ones who were supposed to saveguard our country, yet we are here exaggerating our differences and belittling the great danger that is dawning to our beloved country. It also the cold fact that we and only we(somalis) have placed somalia in its present state. We are all aware of the fact that mini states are emerging from what was formerly known as somalia and here are some just to refresh your mind, Somaliland, Puntland, Jubalan, hiiraanland and the list will grow at exponential rate if not confronted with measures to halt them. This secessionism trend is clearly the benefit of those whose ultimate goal is to position somalia in KURDISTAN state..i.e mini regions which are of no significance ruled by the neighboring countries. This is the long term goal of Ethopia and alikes, they will use any tactics to pursue this goal. THE INTERIM OF GOVERNMENT: I will be hypocrite if I don't not take into consideration the failure of the Interim Government of somalia, which was elected for the sole purpose of uniting somalia and ridding it off the warlords, who held our poeple's will prisoner. The Interim Government failed to reach out the break-away regions somaliland and puntiland which , in all honesty, established peace and law & order in their jurisdictions. They also failed to secure the safety of the elected MPs..we know for a fact that at least two of them were murdered. The Government failed to even open the AIRPORT and THE PORT which were the primary goals of the Interim Government. The Government has also broken the interim constitution by not complying it fully. Those failures have caused the confidence of many well-wishers and peace-loving somalis to withdraw their support. This has clearly placed the once-celebrated Interim Government in a state of failure, unless they employ corrective measures they will lose the support of the entire population. Having mentioned all those , it is crucial that we put our differences aside when the existance of our nation is at stake. Our enemy are well and alive, they are obviously cashing in our differences and turning us against each other. They are also aware of the fact that somalia united will be hard to conquer. Finally a request from a fellow brother..Please let us put our differences aside and work towards a better somalia...the solution does not lie in pin-pointing our weaknesses and differences...I am sure we are capable of doing better than that if we do it in a good faith. devils_love.
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| | Thursday, February 08, 2001 - 08:47 pm Hi there ..D-love that's very powerful massage I do agree everythink you said .I hope miracles happen to our sisters and brothers to wake them up , believe me Only Somali's have the ability to change the whole course of our country , we need first to create a massive demonstration inside and outside of the country , telling the warlords and the generals enough is enough , we Somali's are no longer your hostages ,we want our country for brighter future . once we achieve that -together we can deal the Ethiopian ambitions and those Warlords who committed crimes. to all Somali's peace and love
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| | Friday, February 09, 2001 - 08:54 am Assalamu Alaikum, Devils Love, your sermon might have been credible, if it wasn't for your tendency to reject the voice of the people. With all honestly, you failed to realize Somaliland and its citizens have made a decision to regain their sovereignty. It wouldn't have made a difference if your TNG made in Djibouti went to great lengths to rekindle the Pan Somali euphoria. So I humbly note, while you include Somaliland in your problems, nothing will be solved. Further more, your only displeasure with this TNG is because it hasn't produced tangible results. However, what you fail to understand is, if AbdiQasab could achieve something for the Somali people, he had ample time; 19 years to be exact, to demonstrate his capabilities. In those 19 years, all he has shown us is that he is nothing but a war criminal, and a great opportunist. Nevertheless, I agree with your characterization of Ethiopia. Frankly though, you cannot win if you are defeated from within. Wassalam Wabilaahi Towfiiq
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| | Friday, February 09, 2001 - 09:49 am can we just but the differences on the side for ones, and focus the main proplem? ETHIOPIA!!!!!
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| | Saturday, February 10, 2001 - 08:21 am Somali-Yankee, I have read again your input, and I have to say, though, my own mother would support you. I am afraid, I would go for Durgal. MadMac would agree with you since he is looking for that kind of thinking. reflect bro. Arawello
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| | Saturday, February 10, 2001 - 08:23 am NB, I do not mean my own mother literly. I mean the poeple that can be close to me as my mother. my mother is a God fearing lady who hates politics. Arawello
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| | Saturday, February 10, 2001 - 10:19 am Somalia is a lot like ancient Greece times. All these clans with no nationalistic pride. I intend to go back to Somalia and clean up the mess there. Did you know Italy has been dumping nuclear waste there? And China has been fishing there? I mean, what is happening to our country? Somalia needs help from its african neighbours and it also needs help from the international community. I'm at the moment starting a help Somalia network with somali professionals.
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| | Saturday, February 10, 2001 - 03:49 pm Hello everyone. I have been giving out the PR letter for the past three days and I have to say it has been successful, I hope you guys have done the same. About those who are confused of what I am doing let me restate my position. I believe Somalia now has the worst rulers in the history of this planet, and there is no need for explanation. They are the same in Mogadishu as well as the rest of the country. Now if we want to break that African cycle "waiting miracles", we need to make changes happen with our own hands. If that is what you want, then put yourself in position to help your country for the next six or seven years and when the call comes be ready to serve. Guys you don't have to be in my organization, or agree with me, if you think you can make difference don't sit there do something. In my organization I am looking for particular group of Somalis who are mature, honest and willing to devote their lives to restore the dignity of that Land. Some of the participants may be ready for such venture. For instance, Mahir was the first to recognize what I was implying which indicates certain level of emotional and intellectaul maturity. However, I sense that he was thrown off guard when I blew the whistle on Art's people. May be this is neccessary intellectual and emotional struggle that would ultimately define him, and direct him to where he wants to go next. Mahdi and I share alot of things, including bride,and responsibility which is indicative of high degree of intellectual maturity as well as(Damiir). Mahdi expresses this Damiir " I don't know much about politics and years and years I tried not to pay attention what is going on back home, since I live in the states and I live peacefully. But deep down inside that is not right, in reality we should pay attention and do something about it." Ali Ghedi is diplomat,conciliator and has tremondous capacity to pull people with various levels of concience together. He is indespensible to any future somali organization. There are also few other people whom I think will fit into this group. I do not believe character and motivation are static qualities they undergo growth and change, and in life they are normally marked by crucial junctures, and times of future determining decisions. May be some of us has not come to this juncture yet. One of the reasons why we should focus on the young Somalis is that selfhood formed in youth has a programmatic dimensions. It comprises not only the individual's sense of who he is, but his goals. Therefore shaping their outlook not only determines their success but their positive contribution to our Somali community. Sometimes waking up the intellect of person is enough to transform an idle gaint into a ruthless machine. I will continue the search of this group, for the rest of you I wish you all of the luck whatever you decide to do. Mahdi, Ali Ghedi contact me through Mahir
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| | Sunday, February 11, 2001 - 04:09 am Mumba You need to E-Mail me as well.
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| | Sunday, February 11, 2001 - 09:36 am hey durgal, i am glad you see my point of view for this situation, i did give my email to mahir, you can let me know where i can get those papers too.for every one else who have a different idea, we still need you. Lets become together and forget about the political issues. we are in 2001, and some ppl are still using clans, untill we but this clan crub behind we are not gonna get any where, and ethiopia will take over the country. Hey next thing you know the clans will become together, but this time it will be too late beacuse they gonna be the "rebels", and they will try to regain the power. I pray i will never that situation in my life, but if we don't do something now gues what? the time is now my ppl let us become together. mahdi
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| | Sunday, February 11, 2001 - 09:39 am I meant to say "never see that happen to us"
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| | Sunday, February 11, 2001 - 11:22 am I think the Ethiopian take-over is closer than you guys thing. Almost every rebel group that existed in Somalia has been created either in Ethiopia or with its help. After the Barre regime went to war with Ethiopia reports came out the some Somalis from northern areas of the country were spying for the enemy and this made the adminstration vervous, Ethiopia was paying spies from the Hargaysa area and over time this let to them retrieving (Somali) army personnel from the area. Things got worse and gradually and both governments trying to get the lead head in the region led to the creation of rebel groups, Somali supported Ethiopia's rebell group(s) and Ethiopia was able to do the same thing under the clan catagoty. SMN came out and started go to against the Somali government - the result was the destruction of Hargaysa (the second capital city of Somalia) and much of north Somalia. The SNM was kept at bay and suffered along with the people of the are because they waged war at a time the army was well experienced and larger than ever. Then came the clan wars, increasingly becoming more and more disasterious, Ethiopia trained yet another group under the clan name and this one proved worse than anything the people of Somalia had ever seen. USC started gorilla warfare in central Somalia, some beleive that they weren't as well funded as their counterpart, the SNM. They were able to cause much havoc around the Somali capital and generally face little resistance from the army due to the fact that the army moral was seriously low and people were weary of Barre's leadership. This was early 90s and there were about 3 dozen warlords (many came out and got a huge support from their people) to defend against the USC which was total destruction. The USC then waged war in itself and led to their own destruction and that has brought relative peace in Somalia in later years. Ethiopia during this time was building its armed forces and waited quietly for the most part. It has invited all warring factions for "peace" about a dozen times (this made a fool out of Somalia/Somalis) and nothing came out, lest we wonder. The northern region now claims it's own government and had very little success, not even from Ethiopia though it controls what it can/cannot do such as banking, etc. Are they blind? go figure out. The idea of having their own "nation" seems very attractive and makes them forget about the dangers of Ethiopia. It seems that they'd rather face that than unite with their own kind. What's happening in norther Somalia is the initial step of Ethiopia's colony over Somalia. The new government of Somalia is faced with huge challenges, but most of them are same as before - Ethiopian-led rebels facing a Somail government whether bad or not. Somaliland, Puntland, Jubbaland, Hiiraanland etc, are all the necessary steps for the coming colony and all of these "leaders" see Ethiopia as their best friend. We're screwed beyond BAD and some suggest we just surrender and end our misery there. Bye all.
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| | Sunday, February 11, 2001 - 12:50 pm Hello Mahdi Copy it from Carro U Doon, on above. It starts with "In the name Of God most merciful and most passionate" Just distribute it. Ask mahir my email, and contact me.
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| | Monday, February 12, 2001 - 05:34 pm Hi there everybody ,knowledge is power ,they said education is too expensive ,but I believe ignorance way more expensive , and once you don't participate politics in your community you let the ignorant rule you ....look what is happening our beloved country Somalia .......... Durgal count me I did sent my E-mail to Mahir thank you peace and love
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| | Tuesday, February 13, 2001 - 04:30 am Durgal.....my freind your ideas are noble and by any means iam not trying to discourage you...it is nice to see for once a somali trying to make a sacrifice and taking the risks that come with it....however your approach of resolving things need to go beyond your personal feelings...and more important you must be able to take rejections and those who might view you otherwise....i believe somalia has alot of resources....but to me the most important resource we got are the somali people....n one thing is for sure no one can run a country with it's people...those in power in their perspective fiefdoms don't realise it....the people of somalia have been abused over period almost 50 years now and iam sure you know what iam talking about.....iam not gonna bore with details...i believe for any viable solution to come out of somalia....people need to recompensated for what they lost not in terms of money but justice be served and those responsible for massacres be held accountable for what they did....the respect for human life is far more important than mere patriotism that springs up in the era of uncertainty...the new gov already shows the signs of previous regimes...all powers are in the hands of so called pres....mr Qasim is no less evil than late sayid barre...he had many years to prove what he is to somali people....the least he could have done is dis-engage from barre's cartel the same men are rocking the boat....and believe me we are in for another civil war...Ethopia is a just an escape goat Arewalo....abaa i don't buy into anyone's idealogy not Mad Mac's or for that matter anyone's else i do reflect on what i say....and i must say your mom is one of few somalis thinking straight. peace
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| | Tuesday, February 13, 2001 - 12:45 pm Somali Yankee your argument is legimate one, but I have already considered all of your concerns. There are three ways you can persuade a man: through feelings, reasoning, and material. Each one of these is effective depending on the environment in which one finds himself. Since reason and literacy are related we cannot communicate our people through reasoning. Money is out of the question, so we are left with emotions, and feelings. It is no accident that I find myself using it more than once,and as result I may appear to some as emotional. In general though my goal is simple, to persuade dozens of intellegent and religiously sound Somalis to devote their lives to save somalia and its people from its traditional enemies. Nearly all of the criticism that we have here are based on lack of information or limited knowledge about this subject. If I were concerned about personal feelings I would have responded to these criticism. In addition, I understand the value of team work, however it is not as important as the work of the team itself. I beleive we should accommodate others on the basis of their contributions not just the spirit of team work Agian, I agree with your second point, about Art's people and the rest of warlords being enemy of the ordinary Somalis. However, I have already taken the reality on the ground into a logical conclusion. First, it shows that if things are to change Somalia must rely on patriotic, intellegent, highly motivated young generations. Agian, it is no accident that I am appealing to all Somalis who can make a difference, especially young people. If we don't find all the people we need today, we have to continue searching tomorrow,and the day after that. Second, we have to convince many people the need to major in social science diciplines, Economics,Islamic Law, Polisci,Sociology,International Relations, Political Economy. The benefit of these are huge; we will learn how to rule ourselves effectively as well as our enemy, how to defend our values and religion, how to transform somalia's backward culture into truly modern Islamic culture. Ethopia is not a scape-goat it has been and will be our enemy until we figure out how to restrain it, in other words finding where our strength lies and where their weakness are. Who will do it,and how? You are Somali, it is your responsibility too.
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| | Thursday, February 15, 2001 - 05:08 pm hey durgal. I have tried to e-mail to mahir, for some reason it is keep coming back undelivered, any how guys contact me at dalab6hotmail.com. and let me know what's up. later. mahdi
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| | Thursday, February 15, 2001 - 06:31 pm ok ppl, let me fill u in wat the axmaari ppl r doing to our beloved country somalia (and somaliland if u dont consider us 1 country). in 1994 a large group of somali ppl, religious ppl, decided that they were sick and tired of the somali situation, so they decided to set up their own state. they rebuild the area, they set up skools, looked after the orphans, set up families, built hospitals, had the shariah law in place, to the extent where u could leave ur store open and not fear been robbed. and u know wat the miracle was, ppl from all qabiils, daarod, hawiye, issaaq...lived together in harmoney. ppl married for religion not qabiil, to the extent where an isaaq and darood couple could live in harmoney. anywayz to make a long story short, they created a perfect somali state. mashallah. but of course in somalia nothing good lasts. wat happened was somali ppl who had nothing in their minds than power decided they were gonna destroy this place of harmoney, of course they refused different qabiils living side by side and to top it off they were ppl who feared Allah. in their plan of destruction, those qabiilists sought the aid of the etheopian ppl. unfortunately i am sad to say, that this place which could of have served as an example for the somali ppl, was destroyed. ppl from every qabiil were killed and by those christian etheopians who killed them because of their religion. now for all u who think that etheopia is not a threat, here is an example of the extent of the threat. nowadays, the etheopian army can got into moqadishu or hargeysa and capture a god fearing somali because they feel that he is a terrorists. they have too much power and need to be stopped!!! to top it all off, they bring their AIDS into somalia, they rape our beautiful young girls, just go to the north, boorame, my family who live their have told me of incidents like this, and ull c for urself. we can all try to deny the threat, but we all know in the back of minds its real. wake up ppl and defend ur muslim nation. attacking the new government isnt going to get us anywhere, we should be like those true muslims in hargeysa and otha cities who spent the night be4 the new president was elected in prayer, asking Allah to give our land the most righteous and religious candidate, and alhamdullilah Allah has answered their prayers. i dont say qasiim is perfect, and im not saying he will be a miracle worker, but he needs our support as muslims. if he is unable to perform the job then i think he should leave the post, but first lets give a chance to proove himself. salaam all.
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| | Thursday, February 15, 2001 - 06:35 pm Anyone who kills an Ethiopian will go to heaven. Dila amxaarka eyda eydu keentay. Ilaahaw hay dilin anoon Amxaar dhiigiis ku xaraaraysan
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| | Friday, February 16, 2001 - 08:21 am Xoogsade and his crew ! Somalia's worst Enemy is the Somali Man himself. You have done More damage to Somalia than any other person. Somalia does not need any more Enemies, The somali people are very capable of destroying themselves. They dont need help in that departmen.
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| | Friday, February 16, 2001 - 09:24 am Assalamu Alaikum, Dear Muslim, I rejoiced as I read your article, and was very much pleased. However, your last paragraph didn't make much sense. You state "true muslims in hargeysa and otha cities who spent the night be4 the new president was elected in prayer, asking Allah to give our land the most righteous and religious candidate, and alhamdullilah Allah has answered their prayers." I find this blasphemous, telling us God fearing people's prayers have been answared with the like of AbdiQasab. Maybe next you will tell us they were praying for their homes to be bombed again? My brother you are not very far from the truth if you are a Muslim as you claim. Open your eyes and don't insult our intelligence. Xoogsade: How are you, I am pleased you are still alive. Those Ethiopians must vacate all Somali soil. We are in the 21 century and still under occupation. May God help us all. Wassalam Wabilaahi Towfiiq
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