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     | Tuesday, January 30, 2001 - 06:14 pm Is Islam a fair religion? Does Islam favor male domination over women? Is there one standard for man and one different standard for women? Is the judgement of Allah fair towards women verses men? You tell us about the truth of your experiences and we all will learn. Why does Islam condon slavery of another human being? Why is judgement so harsh on women if they marry non muslim man when a muslim man can marry anyone he wants? Will a muslim woman really burn in hell while her christian husband looks down from above at her or is that just a myth to keep women in control? This is your forums to express your feelings without fear of intimidation or abuse. peace
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| | Tuesday, January 30, 2001 - 07:42 pm Yahya, what makes you think you deserve an answer? The worst of all people who believe religion are South East Asians; Indu,and Pakis. Cow worshipers, you now what! we eat cows.
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| | Tuesday, January 30, 2001 - 11:18 pm First of all change name, that name is not for you..second of all you people bug me......why are you in here keep everything in the same place.....I mean we are discussin things like this in the non-somali topic......... I'll answer your question......and it's a long answer so you better read it boy...........but before I do that....I have to tell you a thing or two when you acuse a religion for double standard.....make sure that what you are basing you debate on is right......second of all don't try to find your answers in somali forums......I strongly advice you not to.......but if you choose to be objective listen....but don't swalow it all......when you have some basis then go and luck out for the truth..........now to your answer The status of woman in Islam constitutes no problem. The attitude of the Qur'an and the early Muslims bear witness to the fact that woman is, at least, as vital to life as man himself, and that she is not inferior to him nor is she one of the lower species. Had it not been for the impact of foreign cultures and alien influences, this question would have never arisen among the Muslims. The status of woman was taken for granted to be equal to that of man. It was a matter of course, a matter of fact, and no one, then, considered it as a problem at all. In order to understand what Islam has established for woman, there is no need to deplore her plight in the pre-Islamic era or in the modern would of today. Islam has given woman rights and privileges which she has never enjoyed under other religious or constitutional systems. This can be understood when the matter is studied as a whole in a comparative manner, rather than partially. The rights and responsibilities of a woman are equal to those of a man but they are not necessarily identical with them. Equality and sameness are two quite different things. This difference is understandable because man and woman are not identical but they are created equals. With this distinction in mind, There is no problem. It is almost impossible to find even two identical men or women. This distinction between equality and sameness is of paramount importance. Equality is desirable, just, fair; but sameness is not. People are not created identical but they are created equals. With this distinction in mind, there is no room to imagine that woman is inferior to man. There is no ground to assume that she is less important than he just because her rights are not identically the same as his. Had her status been identical with his, she would have been simply a duplicate of him, which she is not. The fact that Islam gives her equal rights - but not identical - shows that it takes her into due consideration, acknowledges her, and recognizes her independent personality. It is not the tone of Islam that brands woman as the product of the devil or the seed of evil. Nor does the Qur'an place man as the dominant lord of woman who has no choice but to surrender to his dominance. Nor was it Islam that introduced the question of whether or not woman has any soul in her. Never in the history of Islam has any Muslim doubted the human status of woman or her possession of soul and other fine spiritual qualities. Unlike other popular beliefs, Islam does not blame Eve alone for the First Sin. The Qur'an makes it very clear that both Adam and Eve were tempted; that they both sinned; that God's pardon was granted to both after their repentance; and that God addressed them jointly. (2:35-36;7:19, 27; 20:117-123). In fact the Qur'an gives the impression that Adam was more to blame for that First Sin from which emerged prejudice against woman and suspicion of her deeds. But Islam does not justify such prejudice or suspicion because both Adam and Eve were equally in error, and if we are to blame Eve we should blame Adam as much or even more. The status of woman in Islam is something unique, something novel, something that has no similarity in any other system. If we look to the Eastern Communist world or to the democratic nations, we find that woman is not really in a happy position. Her status is not enviable. She has to work so hard to live, and sometimes she may be doing the same job that a man does but her wage is less than his. She enjoys a kind of liberty which in some cases amounts to libertinism. To get to where she is nowadays, woman struggled hard for decades and centuries. To gain the right of learning and the freedom of work and earning, she had to offer painful sacrifices and give up many of her natural rights. To establish her status as a human being possessing a soul, she paid heavily. Yet in spite of all these costly sacrifices and painful struggles, she has not acquired what Islam has established by a Divine decree for the Muslim woman. The rights of woman of modern times were not granted voluntarily or out of kindness to the female. Modern woman reached her present position by force, and not through natural processes or mutual consent or Divine teachings. She had to force her way, and various circumstances came to her aid. Shortage of manpower during wars, pressure of economic needs and requirements of industrial developments forced woman to get out of her home - to work, to learn, to struggle for her livelihood, to appear as an equal to man, to run her race in the course of life side by side with him. She was forced by circumstances and in turn she forced herself through and acquired her new status. Whether all women were pleased with these circumstances being on their side, and whether they are happy and satisfied with the results of this course is a different matter. But the fact remains that whatever rights modern woman enjoys fall short of those of her Muslim counterpart. What Islam has established for woman is that which suits her nature, gives her full security and protects her against disgraceful circumstances and uncertain channels of life. We do not need here to elaborate on the status of modern woman and the risks she runs to make her living or establish herself. We do not even need to explore the miseries and setbacks that encircle her as a result of the so-called rights of woman. Nor do we intend to manipulate the situation of many unhappy homes which break because of the very "freedom" and "rights" of which modern woman is proud. Most women today exercise the right of freedom to go out independently, to work and earn, to pretend to be equal to man, but this, sadly enough, is at the expense of their families. This all known and obvious. What is not known is the status of woman in Islam. An attempt will be made in the following passages to sum up the attitude of Islam with regard to woman. Woman is recognized by Islam as a full and equal partner of man in the procreation of humankind. He is the father; she is the mother, and both are essential for life. Her role is not less vital than his. By this partnership she has an equal share in every aspect; she is entitled to equal rights; she undertakes equal responsibilities, and in her there are as many qualities and as much humanity as there are in her partner. To this equal partnership in the reproduction of human kind God says: O mankind! Verily We have created your from a single (pair) of a male and a female,m and made you into nations and tribes that you may know each other... (Qur'an, 49:13; cf. 4:1). She is equal to man in bearing personal and common responsibilities and in receiving rewards for her deeds. She is acknowl-edged as an independent personality, in possession of human qualities and worthy of spiritual aspirations. Her human nature is neither inferior to nor deviant from that of man. Both are members of one another. God says: And their Lord has accepted (their prayers) and answered them (saying): 'Never will I cause to be lost the work of any of you, be he male or female; you are members, one of another... (3:195; cf 9:71;33:35-36;66:19-21). She is equal to man in the pursuit of education and knowledge. When Islam enjoins the seeking of knowledge upon Muslims, it makes no distinction between man and woman. Almost fourteen centuries ago, Muhammad declared that the pursuit of knowledge is incumbent on every Muslim male and female. This declaration was very clear and was implemented by Muslims throughout history. She is entitled to freedom of expression as much as man is. Her sound opinions are taken into consideration and cannot be disregarded just because she happen to belong to the female sex. It is reported in the Qur'an and history that woman not only expressed her opinion freely but also argued and participated in serious discussions with the Prophet himself as well as with other Muslim leaders (Qur'an, 58:1-4; 60:10-12). Besides there were occasions when Muslim women expressed their views on legislative matters of public interest, and stood in opposition to the Caliphs, who then accepted the sound arguments of these women. A specific example took place during the Califate of Umar Ibn al-Khattab. Historical records show that women participated in public life with the early Muslims, especially in times of emergencies. Women used to accompany the Muslim armies engaged in battles to nurse the wounded, prepare supplies, serve the warriors, and so on. They were not shut behind iron bars or considered worthless creatures and deprived of souls. Islam grants woman equal rights to contract, to enterprise, to earn and possess independently. Her life, her property, her honor are as sacred as those of man. If she commits any offense, her penalty is no less or more than of man's in a similar case. If she is wronged or harmed, she gets due compensations equal to what a man in her position would get (2:178;4:45, 92-93). Islam does not state these rights in a statistical form and then relax. It has taken all measures to safeguard them and put them into practice as integral articles of Faith. It never tolerates those who are inclined to prejudice against woman or discrimination between man and woman. Time and again, the Qur'an reproaches those who used to believe woman to be inferior to man (16:57-59, 62; 42:47-59; 43:15-19; 53:21-23). Apart from recognition of woman as an independent human being acknowledged as equally essential for the survival of humanity, Islam has given her a share of inheritance. Before Islam, she was not only deprived of that share but was herself considered as property to be inherited by man. Out of that transferable property Islam made an heir, acknowledging the inherent human qualifies in woman. Whether she is a wife or mother, a sister or daughter, she receives a certain share of the deceased kin's property, a share which depends on her degree of relationship to the deceased and the number of heirs. This share is hers, and no one can take it away or disinherit her. Even if the deceased wishes to deprive her by making a will to other relations or in favor of any other cause, the Law will not allow him to do so. Any proprietor is permitted to make his will within the limit of one-third of his property, so he may not affect the rights of his heirs, men and women. In the case of inheritance, the question of quality and sameness is fully applicable. In principle, both man and woman are equally entitled to inherit the property of the deceased relations but the portions they get may vary. In some instances man receives two shares whereas woman gets one only. This no sign of giving preference or supremacy to man over woman.The reasons why man gets more in these particular instances may be classified as follows: First man, is the person solely responsible for the complete maintenance of his wife, his family and any other needy relations. It is his duty by Law to assume all financial responsibilities and maintain his dependents adequately. It is also his duty to contribute financially to all good causes in his society. All financial burdens are borne by him alone. Secondly, in contrast, woman has no financial responsibilities whatsoever except very little of her personal expenses, the high luxurious things that she likes to have. She is financially secure and provided for. If she is a wife, her husband is the provider; if she is a mother, it is the son; if she is a daughter, it is the father; if she is a sister; it is the brother, and so on. If she has no relations on whom she can depend, then there is no question of inheritance because there is nothing to inherit and there is no one to bequeath anything to her. However, she will not be left to starve, maintenance of such a woman is the responsibility of the society as a whole, the state. She may be given aid or a job to earn her living, and whatever money she makes will be hers. She is not responsible for the maintenance of anybody else besides herself. If there is a man in her position, he would still be responsible for his family and possibly any of his relations who need his help. So, in the hardest situation her financial responsi-bility is limited, while his is unlimited. Thirdly, when a woman gets less than a man does, she is not actually deprived of anything that she has worked for. The property inherited is not the result of her earning or her endeavors. It is something coming to them from a neutral source, something addition-al or extra. It is something that neither man or woman struggled for. It is a sort of aid, and any aid has to be distributed according to the urgent needs and responsibilities especially when the distribution is regulated by the Law of God. Now, we have a male heir, on one side, burdened with all kinds of financial responsibilities and liabilities. We have, on the other side, a female heir with no financial responsibilities at all or at most with very little of it. In between we have some property and aid to redistribute by way of inheritance. If we deprive the female completely, it would be unjust to her because she is related to the deceased. Likewise, if we always give her a share equal to the man's, it would be unjust to him. So, instead of doing injustice to either side, Islam gives the man a larger portion of the inherited property to help him to meet his family needs and social responsibilities. At the same time, Islam has not forgotten her altogether, but has given her a portion to satisfy her very personal needs. In fact, Islam in this respect is being more kind to her than to him. Here we can say that when taken as a whole the rights of woman are equal to those of man although not necessarily identical (see Qur'an, 4:11-14, 176). In some instances of bearing witness to certain civil con-tracts, two men are required or one man and two women. Again, this is no indication of the woman being inferior to man. It is a measure of securing the rights of the contracting parties, because woman as a rule, is not so experienced in practical life as man. This lack of experience may cause a loss to any party in a given contract. So the Law requires that at least two women should bear witness with one man. if a woman of the witness forgets something, the other one would remind her. Or if she makes an error, due to lack of experience, the other would help to correct her. This is a precautionary measure to guarantee honest transactions and proper dealings between people. In fact, it gives woman a role to play in civil life and helps to establish justice. At any rate, lack of experience in civil life does not necessarily mean that women is inferior to man in her status. Every human being lacks one thing or another, yet no one questions their human status (2:282). Woman enjoys certain privileges of which man is deprived. She is exempt from some religious duties, i.e., prayers and fasting, in her regular periods and at times of confinement. She is exempt from all financial liabilities. As a mother, she enjoys more recognition and higher honor in the sight of God (31:14-15;46:15). The Prophet acknowledged this honor when he declared that Paradise is under the feet of the mothers. She is entitled to three-fourths of the son's love and kindness with one-fourth left for their father. As a wife she is entitled to demand of her prospective husband a suitable dowry that will be her own. She is entitled to complete provision and total maintenance by the husband. She does not have to work or share with her husband the family expenses. She is free to retain, after marriage, whatever she possessed before it, and the husband has no right whatsoever to any of her belongings. As a daughter or sister she is entitled to security and provision by the father and brother respectively. That is her privilege. If she wishes to work or be self-supporting and participate in handling the family responsibilities, she is quite free to do so, provided her integrity and honor are safeguarded. The standing of woman in prayers behind man does not indicate in any sense that she is inferior to him. Woman, as already mentioned, is exempt from attending congregational prayers which are obligatory on man. But if she does attend she stands in separate lines made up of women exclusively . This is a regulation of discipline in prayers, and not a classification of importance. In men's rows the head of state stands shoulder to shoulder to the pauper. Men of the highest ranks in society stand in prayer side by side with other men of the lowest ranks. The order of lines in prayers is introduced to help every one to concentrate in his meditation. It is very important because Muslim prayers are not simply chanting or the sing-a-song type. They involve actions, motions, standing, bowing, prostration, etc. So if men mix with women in the same lines, it is possible that something disturbing or distracting may happen. The mind will become occupied by something alien to prayer and derailed from the clear path of mediation. The result will be a loss of the purpose of prayers, besides an offense of adultery committed by the eye, because the eye-by looking at forbidden things - can be guilty of adultery as much as the heart itself. Moreover, no Muslim man or woman is allowed during prayers to touch the body of another person of the opposite sex. If men and women stand side by side in prayer they cannot avoid touching each other. Furthermore, when a woman is praying in front of a man or beside him, it is very likely that any part of her dressed body may become uncovered after a certain motion of bowing or prostrating. The man's eye may happen to be looking at the uncovered part, with the result that she will be embarrassed and he will be exposed to distraction or possibly evil thoughts. So, to avoid any embarrassment and distraction to help concentrate on mediation and pure thoughts, to maintain harmony and order among worshippers, to fulfill the true purposes of prayers, Islam has ordained the organization of rows, whereby men stand in front lines, and women behind the children. Anyone with some knowledge of the nature and purpose of Muslim prayers can readily understand the wisdom of organizing the lines of worshippers in this manner. The Muslim woman is always associated with an old tradition known as the "veil". It is Islamic that the woman should beautify herself with the veil of honor, dignity, chastity, purity and integrity. She should refrain from all deeds and gestures that might stir the passions of people other than her legitimate husband or cause evil suspicion of her morality. She is warned not to display her charms or expose her physical attractions before strangers. The veil which she must put on is one that can save her soul from weakness, her mind from indulgence, her eyes from lustful looks, and her personality from demoralization. Islam is most concerned with the integrity of woman, with the safeguarding of her morals and morale and with the protection of her character and personality (cf. Qur'an, 24:30-31). By now it is clear that the status of woman in Islam is unprecedentedly high and realistically suitable to her nature. Her rights and duties are equal to those of man but not necessarily or absolutely identical with them. If she is deprived of one thing in some aspect, she is fully compensated for it with more things in many other aspects. The fact that she belongs to the female sex has no bearing on her human status or independent personality, and it is no basis for justification of prejudice against her or injustice to her person. Islam gives her as much as is required of her. Her rights match beautifully with her duties. The balance between rights and duties is maintained, and no side overweighs the other. The whole status of woman is given clearly in the Qur'anic verse which may be translated as follows: And women shall have rights similar to the rights against them, according to what is equitable; but man have a degree (of advantage as in some cases of inheritance) over them (2:228). This degree is not a title of supremacy or an authorization of dominance over her. It is to correspond with the extra responsibilities of man and give him some compensation for his unlimited liabilities. The above mentioned verse is always interpreted in the light of another (4:34). It is these extra responsibilities that give man a degree over woman in some economic aspects. It is not a higher degree in humanity or in character. Nor is it a dominance of one over the other or suppression of one by the other. It is a distribution of God's abundance according to the needs of the nature of which God is the Maker. And He knows best what is good for woman and what is good for man. God is absolutely true when He declares: mankind! reverence your Guardian-Lord, Who created you from a single person, and created of like nature his mate, and from them twain scattered (like seeds) countless men and women (4:1).
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| | Tuesday, January 30, 2001 - 11:31 pm Read this you stupid idiot The Status of Woman in Islam from "Islam in focus" By Hammuda Abdul-Ati, PH.D. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The status of woman in Islam constitutes no problem. The attitude of the Qur'an and the early Muslims bear witness to the fact that woman is, at least, as vital to life as man himself, and that she is not inferior to him nor is she one of the lower species. Had it not been for the impact of foreign cultures and alien influences, this question would have never arisen among the Muslims. The status of woman was taken for granted to be equal to that of man. It was a matter of course, a matter of fact, and no one, then, considered it as a problem at all. In order to understand what Islam has established for woman, there is no need to deplore her plight in the pre-Islamic era or in the modern would of today. Islam has given woman rights and privileges which she has never enjoyed under other religious or constitutional systems. This can be understood when the matter is studied as a whole in a comparative manner, rather than partially. The rights and responsibilities of a woman are equal to those of a man but they are not necessarily identical with them. Equality and sameness are two quite different things. This difference is understandable because man and woman are not identical but they are created equals. With this distinction in mind, There is no problem. It is almost impossible to find even two identical men or women. This distinction between equality and sameness is of paramount importance. Equality is desirable, just, fair; but sameness is not. People are not created identical but they are created equals. With this distinction in mind, there is no room to imagine that woman is inferior to man. There is no ground to assume that she is less important than he just because her rights are not identically the same as his. Had her status been identical with his, she would have been simply a duplicate of him, which she is not. The fact that Islam gives her equal rights - but not identical - shows that it takes her into due consideration, acknowledges her, and recognizes her independent personality. It is not the tone of Islam that brands woman as the product of the devil or the seed of evil. Nor does the Qur'an place man as the dominant lord of woman who has no choice but to surrender to his dominance. Nor was it Islam that introduced the question of whether or not woman has any soul in her. Never in the history of Islam has any Muslim doubted the human status of woman or her possession of soul and other fine spiritual qualities. Unlike other popular beliefs, Islam does not blame Eve alone for the First Sin. The Qur'an makes it very clear that both Adam and Eve were tempted; that they both sinned; that God's pardon was granted to both after their repentance; and that God addressed them jointly. (2:35-36;7:19, 27; 20:117-123). In fact the Qur'an gives the impression that Adam was more to blame for that First Sin from which emerged prejudice against woman and suspicion of her deeds. But Islam does not justify such prejudice or suspicion because both Adam and Eve were equally in error, and if we are to blame Eve we should blame Adam as much or even more. The status of woman in Islam is something unique, something novel, something that has no similarity in any other system. If we look to the Eastern Communist world or to the democratic nations, we find that woman is not really in a happy position. Her status is not enviable. She has to work so hard to live, and sometimes she may be doing the same job that a man does but her wage is less than his. She enjoys a kind of liberty which in some cases amounts to libertinism. To get to where she is nowadays, woman struggled hard for decades and centuries. To gain the right of learning and the freedom of work and earning, she had to offer painful sacrifices and give up many of her natural rights. To establish her status as a human being possessing a soul, she paid heavily. Yet in spite of all these costly sacrifices and painful struggles, she has not acquired what Islam has established by a Divine decree for the Muslim woman. The rights of woman of modern times were not granted voluntarily or out of kindness to the female. Modern woman reached her present position by force, and not through natural processes or mutual consent or Divine teachings. She had to force her way, and various circumstances came to her aid. Shortage of manpower during wars, pressure of economic needs and requirements of industrial developments forced woman to get out of her home - to work, to learn, to struggle for her livelihood, to appear as an equal to man, to run her race in the course of life side by side with him. She was forced by circumstances and in turn she forced herself through and acquired her new status. Whether all women were pleased with these circumstances being on their side, and whether they are happy and satisfied with the results of this course is a different matter. But the fact remains that whatever rights modern woman enjoys fall short of those of her Muslim counterpart. What Islam has established for woman is that which suits her nature, gives her full security and protects her against disgraceful circumstances and uncertain channels of life. We do not need here to elaborate on the status of modern woman and the risks she runs to make her living or establish herself. We do not even need to explore the miseries and setbacks that encircle her as a result of the so-called rights of woman. Nor do we intend to manipulate the situation of many unhappy homes which break because of the very "freedom" and "rights" of which modern woman is proud. Most women today exercise the right of freedom to go out independently, to work and earn, to pretend to be equal to man, but this, sadly enough, is at the expense of their families. This all known and obvious. What is not known is the status of woman in Islam. An attempt will be made in the following passages to sum up the attitude of Islam with regard to woman. Woman is recognized by Islam as a full and equal partner of man in the procreation of humankind. He is the father; she is the mother, and both are essential for life. Her role is not less vital than his. By this partnership she has an equal share in every aspect; she is entitled to equal rights; she undertakes equal responsibilities, and in her there are as many qualities and as much humanity as there are in her partner. To this equal partnership in the reproduction of human kind God says: O mankind! Verily We have created your from a single (pair) of a male and a female,m and made you into nations and tribes that you may know each other... (Qur'an, 49:13; cf. 4:1). She is equal to man in bearing personal and common responsibilities and in receiving rewards for her deeds. She is acknowl-edged as an independent personality, in possession of human qualities and worthy of spiritual aspirations. Her human nature is neither inferior to nor deviant from that of man. Both are members of one another. God says: And their Lord has accepted (their prayers) and answered them (saying): 'Never will I cause to be lost the work of any of you, be he male or female; you are members, one of another... (3:195; cf 9:71;33:35-36;66:19-21). She is equal to man in the pursuit of education and knowledge. When Islam enjoins the seeking of knowledge upon Muslims, it makes no distinction between man and woman. Almost fourteen centuries ago, Muhammad declared that the pursuit of knowledge is incumbent on every Muslim male and female. This declaration was very clear and was implemented by Muslims throughout history. She is entitled to freedom of expression as much as man is. Her sound opinions are taken into consideration and cannot be disregarded just because she happen to belong to the female sex. It is reported in the Qur'an and history that woman not only expressed her opinion freely but also argued and participated in serious discussions with the Prophet himself as well as with other Muslim leaders (Qur'an, 58:1-4; 60:10-12). Besides there were occasions when Muslim women expressed their views on legislative matters of public interest, and stood in opposition to the Caliphs, who then accepted the sound arguments of these women. A specific example took place during the Califate of Umar Ibn al-Khattab. Historical records show that women participated in public life with the early Muslims, especially in times of emergencies. Women used to accompany the Muslim armies engaged in battles to nurse the wounded, prepare supplies, serve the warriors, and so on. They were not shut behind iron bars or considered worthless creatures and deprived of souls. Islam grants woman equal rights to contract, to enterprise, to earn and possess independently. Her life, her property, her honor are as sacred as those of man. If she commits any offense, her penalty is no less or more than of man's in a similar case. If she is wronged or harmed, she gets due compensations equal to what a man in her position would get (2:178;4:45, 92-93). Islam does not state these rights in a statistical form and then relax. It has taken all measures to safeguard them and put them into practice as integral articles of Faith. It never tolerates those who are inclined to prejudice against woman or discrimination between man and woman. Time and again, the Qur'an reproaches those who used to believe woman to be inferior to man (16:57-59, 62; 42:47-59; 43:15-19; 53:21-23). Apart from recognition of woman as an independent human being acknowledged as equally essential for the survival of humanity, Islam has given her a share of inheritance. Before Islam, she was not only deprived of that share but was herself considered as property to be inherited by man. Out of that transferable property Islam made an heir, acknowledging the inherent human qualifies in woman. Whether she is a wife or mother, a sister or daughter, she receives a certain share of the deceased kin's property, a share which depends on her degree of relationship to the deceased and the number of heirs. This share is hers, and no one can take it away or disinherit her. Even if the deceased wishes to deprive her by making a will to other relations or in favor of any other cause, the Law will not allow him to do so. Any proprietor is permitted to make his will within the limit of one-third of his property, so he may not affect the rights of his heirs, men and women. In the case of inheritance, the question of quality and sameness is fully applicable. In principle, both man and woman are equally entitled to inherit the property of the deceased relations but the portions they get may vary. In some instances man receives two shares whereas woman gets one only. This no sign of giving preference or supremacy to man over woman.The reasons why man gets more in these particular instances may be classified as follows: First man, is the person solely responsible for the complete maintenance of his wife, his family and any other needy relations. It is his duty by Law to assume all financial responsibilities and maintain his dependents adequately. It is also his duty to contribute financially to all good causes in his society. All financial burdens are borne by him alone. Secondly, in contrast, woman has no financial responsibilities whatsoever except very little of her personal expenses, the high luxurious things that she likes to have. She is financially secure and provided for. If she is a wife, her husband is the provider; if she is a mother, it is the son; if she is a daughter, it is the father; if she is a sister; it is the brother, and so on. If she has no relations on whom she can depend, then there is no question of inheritance because there is nothing to inherit and there is no one to bequeath anything to her. However, she will not be left to starve, maintenance of such a woman is the responsibility of the society as a whole, the state. She may be given aid or a job to earn her living, and whatever money she makes will be hers. She is not responsible for the maintenance of anybody else besides herself. If there is a man in her position, he would still be responsible for his family and possibly any of his relations who need his help. So, in the hardest situation her financial responsi-bility is limited, while his is unlimited. Thirdly, when a woman gets less than a man does, she is not actually deprived of anything that she has worked for. The property inherited is not the result of her earning or her endeavors. It is something coming to them from a neutral source, something addition-al or extra. It is something that neither man or woman struggled for. It is a sort of aid, and any aid has to be distributed according to the urgent needs and responsibilities especially when the distribution is regulated by the Law of God. Now, we have a male heir, on one side, burdened with all kinds of financial responsibilities and liabilities. We have, on the other side, a female heir with no financial responsibilities at all or at most with very little of it. In between we have some property and aid to redistribute by way of inheritance. If we deprive the female completely, it would be unjust to her because she is related to the deceased. Likewise, if we always give her a share equal to the man's, it would be unjust to him. So, instead of doing injustice to either side, Islam gives the man a larger portion of the inherited property to help him to meet his family needs and social responsibilities. At the same time, Islam has not forgotten her altogether, but has given her a portion to satisfy her very personal needs. In fact, Islam in this respect is being more kind to her than to him. Here we can say that when taken as a whole the rights of woman are equal to those of man although not necessarily identical (see Qur'an, 4:11-14, 176). In some instances of bearing witness to certain civil con-tracts, two men are required or one man and two women. Again, this is no indication of the woman being inferior to man. It is a measure of securing the rights of the contracting parties, because woman as a rule, is not so experienced in practical life as man. This lack of experience may cause a loss to any party in a given contract. So the Law requires that at least two women should bear witness with one man. if a woman of the witness forgets something, the other one would remind her. Or if she makes an error, due to lack of experience, the other would help to correct her. This is a precautionary measure to guarantee honest transactions and proper dealings between people. In fact, it gives woman a role to play in civil life and helps to establish justice. At any rate, lack of experience in civil life does not necessarily mean that women is inferior to man in her status. Every human being lacks one thing or another, yet no one questions their human status (2:282). Woman enjoys certain privileges of which man is deprived. She is exempt from some religious duties, i.e., prayers and fasting, in her regular periods and at times of confinement. She is exempt from all financial liabilities. As a mother, she enjoys more recognition and higher honor in the sight of God (31:14-15;46:15). The Prophet acknowledged this honor when he declared that Paradise is under the feet of the mothers. She is entitled to three-fourths of the son's love and kindness with one-fourth left for their father. As a wife she is entitled to demand of her prospective husband a suitable dowry that will be her own. She is entitled to complete provision and total maintenance by the husband. She does not have to work or share with her husband the family expenses. She is free to retain, after marriage, whatever she possessed before it, and the husband has no right whatsoever to any of her belongings. As a daughter or sister she is entitled to security and provision by the father and brother respectively. That is her privilege. If she wishes to work or be self-supporting and participate in handling the family responsibilities, she is quite free to do so, provided her integrity and honor are safeguarded. The standing of woman in prayers behind man does not indicate in any sense that she is inferior to him. Woman, as already mentioned, is exempt from attending congregational prayers which are obligatory on man. But if she does attend she stands in separate lines made up of women exclusively . This is a regulation of discipline in prayers, and not a classification of importance. In men's rows the head of state stands shoulder to shoulder to the pauper. Men of the highest ranks in society stand in prayer side by side with other men of the lowest ranks. The order of lines in prayers is introduced to help every one to concentrate in his meditation. It is very important because Muslim prayers are not simply chanting or the sing-a-song type. They involve actions, motions, standing, bowing, prostration, etc. So if men mix with women in the same lines, it is possible that something disturbing or distracting may happen. The mind will become occupied by something alien to prayer and derailed from the clear path of mediation. The result will be a loss of the purpose of prayers, besides an offense of adultery committed by the eye, because the eye-by looking at forbidden things - can be guilty of adultery as much as the heart itself. Moreover, no Muslim man or woman is allowed during prayers to touch the body of another person of the opposite sex. If men and women stand side by side in prayer they cannot avoid touching each other. Furthermore, when a woman is praying in front of a man or beside him, it is very likely that any part of her dressed body may become uncovered after a certain motion of bowing or prostrating. The man's eye may happen to be looking at the uncovered part, with the result that she will be embarrassed and he will be exposed to distraction or possibly evil thoughts. So, to avoid any embarrassment and distraction to help concentrate on mediation and pure thoughts, to maintain harmony and order among worshippers, to fulfill the true purposes of prayers, Islam has ordained the organization of rows, whereby men stand in front lines, and women behind the children. Anyone with some knowledge of the nature and purpose of Muslim prayers can readily understand the wisdom of organizing the lines of worshippers in this manner. The Muslim woman is always associated with an old tradition known as the "veil". It is Islamic that the woman should beautify herself with the veil of honor, dignity, chastity, purity and integrity. She should refrain from all deeds and gestures that might stir the passions of people other than her legitimate husband or cause evil suspicion of her morality. She is warned not to display her charms or expose her physical attractions before strangers. The veil which she must put on is one that can save her soul from weakness, her mind from indulgence, her eyes from lustful looks, and her personality from demoralization. Islam is most concerned with the integrity of woman, with the safeguarding of her morals and morale and with the protection of her character and personality (cf. Qur'an, 24:30-31). By now it is clear that the status of woman in Islam is unprecedentedly high and realistically suitable to her nature. Her rights and duties are equal to those of man but not necessarily or absolutely identical with them. If she is deprived of one thing in some aspect, she is fully compensated for it with more things in many other aspects. The fact that she belongs to the female sex has no bearing on her human status or independent personality, and it is no basis for justification of prejudice against her or injustice to her person. Islam gives her as much as is required of her. Her rights match beautifully with her duties. The balance between rights and duties is maintained, and no side overweighs the other. The whole status of woman is given clearly in the Qur'anic verse which may be translated as follows: And women shall have rights similar to the rights against them, according to what is equitable; but man have a degree (of advantage as in some cases of inheritance) over them (2:228). This degree is not a title of supremacy or an authorization of dominance over her. It is to correspond with the extra responsibilities of man and give him some compensation for his unlimited liabilities. The above mentioned verse is always interpreted in the light of another (4:34). It is these extra responsibilities that give man a degree over woman in some economic aspects. It is not a higher degree in humanity or in character. Nor is it a dominance of one over the other or suppression of one by the other. It is a distribution of God's abundance according to the needs of the nature of which God is the Maker. And He knows best what is good for woman and what is good for man. God is absolutely true when He declares: mankind! reverence your Guardian-Lord, Who created you from a single person, and created of like nature his mate, and from them twain scattered (like seeds) countless men and women (4:1). --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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| | Wednesday, January 31, 2001 - 01:13 am I think culture is confused with religion.
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| | Wednesday, January 31, 2001 - 02:06 am So What about the Slavery?????????????????????
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| | Wednesday, January 31, 2001 - 02:25 am what about slavery?? why the change of topic??? What is your point, buddy
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| | Wednesday, January 31, 2001 - 07:16 am Yahya-Khan if you are so concerned about Women rights I suggest you go to India and rescue those women who are burned when their husbands die. Rescue those female infants who are thrown in the dustbins because their families are too poor and are afraid that they cant afford to pay dowry when she is ready to get Married (as it is in Indian custom). Keep this in Mind, Muslims in Islam were liberated almost 1500 years ago and were given equal rights. While in the so called western World Women could Not own property and were Not allowed to even Vote untill 1929. Women in the west were not even considered as "Persons" prior to 1929.
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| | Wednesday, January 31, 2001 - 11:02 am Abdul thank you man According to WHO world health organization, There are significant increase in abortion rates in South East Asia as result of technological advances, such as scanning machines, where a father can see the sex of his unborn child. Large number of girls are either misfed or disappear before the age of 10.
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| | Wednesday, January 31, 2001 - 11:28 am I was browsing through the forums when your discussion caught my eye. Allah (swt)is the most merciful,gracious,fairest, and so fourth so how would you even dare asking such a question!However I must admit some of the rules and regulations of Islam are a bit harsh towards women for example:Hijaab.The fact that you even had the intention of asking such a question proves that you have weakness in your faith.Anyhow I found some facts that will put any of your doubts to rest. My brothers and sisters everywhere! Islamic law - that Allah (Glorified and Exalted be He) sent down to His Messenger Muhammad - came to announce that women (exactly like men) are full human beings. Women (like men) are therefore required to follow the way appointed by Allah. A woman (like a man) is therefore obligated with all three degrees of this religion: Islam (outward submission to Allah), Iman (inward faith in Allah), and Ihsan (perfection of worship of Allah). It is thus required for every woman to testify that there is none deserving worship but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's Messenger; to pray; to give charity; to fast; and to make a pilgrimage to Allah's House if she has the means. It is likewise required for every woman to believe in Allah, His angels, His scriptures, His messengers, the Last Day, and to believe in Allah's decree (and that the good and evil consequences thereof are from Allah). These are the fundamentals of Islam and Iman. It is likewise required for every woman to worship Allah as if she sees Him. For although she cannot see Allah, she must believe that He sees whatever she does in secret and in public. Women (exactly like men) have been commanded with these three levels of the religion (Islam, Iman, Ihsan). Women are also obligated to enjoin good and forbid evil; to wage jihad by saying that which is truthful; and to adhere to all noble behavior, like: truthfulness, trustworthiness, courage, modesty, and self-respect. Every Muslim woman is commanded to be steadfast in her religion and not to be negligent with her faith. It is impermissible for her - under any pressure or compulsion - to open her heart to accept the word of disbelief. Hence every Muslim woman falls under Allah's statement: "Whose disbelieves in Allah, after he has believed - excepting him who has been compelled, and his heart is still at rest with the Faith - but whosoever's breast is expanded in unbelief, upon them shall rest anger from Allah, and there awaits them a mighty chastisement." (Qur'an 16:106) Clearly when Islam charged women with all these duties and in all these obligations made her equal to men, the intent was to honor her and permit her to reach the highest degree of perfection of her being. The duties that Allah has obligated humanity with are but a means to honor us. Prayer, as well as fasting, is an honor for the servant and a means to raise his rank. To adhere to Allah's straight path and the manners of Islam are, without doubt, a means to honor us and not to humiliate us as imagined by those who are ignorant of Allah and follow their desires. Such people think and imagine that a human being who does not believe in Allah, does not uphold the trust of these duties, and does not perform what Allah has commanded him is of a higher standing than the believer who adheres to the obligations of Islam. Such an idea is ignorance and renders human beings on par with the animals. Humans have been created to be tried by Allah and have been charged with fulfilling these duties to Allah (Glorified and Exalted be He) and His creatures. As for animals, while they have been created by Allah, they have not been charged with this trust. Whoever considers that a human being who does not uphold what Allah has obligated as equal to those who fulfill what Allah has obligated is like those who consider humans and animals to be equal. For this reason, Allah has said: "Shall we treat that those who have surrendered (as Muslims) as We treat the guilty?" (Qur'an 68:35) And He has said: "We have crated for Hell many of the jinn and humanity; they have hearts, but understand not with them; they have eyes, but perceive not with them; and they have ears, but they hear not with them. These are like cattle; nay, rather they are further astray! Those - they are the heedless." (Qur'an 7:126) The disbeliever in Allah is a guilty criminal, for he does not know whom He is to worship, i.e., his Creator, his Protector, his Lord, and He Who created this universe in which he lives. The disbeliever enjoys what Allah has blessed him with and yet forgets the One Who blessed and preferred him with such blessings. As for the believer, he is the honorable servant who knows His Lord and Creator, Allah, Whom he worships. He fulfills what Allah has obligated and travels upon the path that Allah has delineated for him.
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| | Wednesday, January 31, 2001 - 11:49 am Salam All Yahya Khan: Your post just reminds me of the people who never want to go out and research for their answers but like to get their answers from the media. What u just described was how the media portrays Muslim women. If u didn't know Islam gave Muslim women the rights that the women in the west are still fighting for 1400yrs ago. *Islam, fourteen centuries ago, made men and women equally accountable to God, setting no limits on her moral progress. As a matter of fact, it was only under Islam that women regained their rights to life, education and property. Since men and women both came from the same nature, they’re all equal in their humanity. Therefore, neither gender can be superior because it would be a contradiction of equality. *In Islam a women has the basic freedom of choice and expression based on her individuality. Women are encouraged in Islam to contribute their opinions and ideas. A Muslim women chooses her husband and keeps her name after marriage. A Muslim women’s testimony is valid in legal disputes. *A right to vote was given to Muslim women by God 1400 yr. Ago is the right to vote. On any public matter, she may voice her opinion and participate in politics. Islam does not forbid a women from holding important positions in government. *The Muslim women has the privilege to earn money, the right to own property, to enter into legal contracts, and to manage all of her assets in any way she pleases too. She can run her own business and no one has any claim on her earnings including her husband. *Under Islam women regained the rights to life, education and property. A women is equal in the pursuit of knowledge. Islam makes no distinction between men and women when it speaks of seeking knowledge upon Muslims. She is entitled to freedom of speech expressions much as a man is. It is reported both in the Quran and history that women not only expressed their opinion but also argued in discussions with the prophet and other leaders. These are just the few rights that Islam has given women. If any1 has anymore to add to this that i've stated above please do so Jazkallah kairan in advance. YahyaKhan inshallah u've picked up something and if not ATLEAST do ur self a favor and SEEK knowledge dont let the media bombard U with incorrect information. If i have offended any1 please forgive me and anything good i have said is from Allah(swt) and anything bad is from me or/and shaytan. Your sister in faith Muslimsista SalamzAll 
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| | Wednesday, January 31, 2001 - 12:39 pm YAH KHAN TAKE YOUR PACKI ASS TO WHERE U CAME FROM MOTHA FUCKA....... GHETTO GIRL: GEUSS WHAT BITCH I COULD ALREADY SEE YOUR UGLY PUSSY BEING SERVE AS PUSSY SHAWARMA ON THE MENUE IN HELL..... LEAVE ISLAM ALONE YOU DON'T KNOW SH*T ABOUT RELIGION ...SO SHUT THE •••• UP YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT THE HELL YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT..... BY THE WAY REPRESNTITVES FROM THE COMMANDS"CUT@ PASTE" ARE COMPLAINING FOR THE EXCESSIVE USE OF THEIR CLIENTS SO KEEP IT DOWN BITCH........ SALAMA
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| | Wednesday, January 31, 2001 - 02:28 pm NINXOON I"m not an Islamic scholar mind you I didn't say I wrote that "Anyhow I found some facts that will put any of your doubts to rest". and besides it's kind of obvious I didn't write it because it's all in quotes LoL So chill. Funny how people are quick to judge when they don't even know you. You probably attacking me because of the hate I proclaimed for Somali men and that's a statement I'm not going to turn back from. Hey at least I'm admitting it I don't believe in sugar coating the world!!!
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| | Wednesday, January 31, 2001 - 02:42 pm folks, Instead of cut and paste, you can post the link of the topic. By doing that you should save some space for somalinet. Ghetogirl, There is no such hijab in islam. I am talking about the ugly one that somali women take as dress. This was the idea of the some wahaabiya cult living in the past.This wahabiya cult madesomali women as guinea pig. I have been mostly all arab and muslim country and i didn't see any woman wearing this ugly stuff and claims that Allah ordered them. Most muslim women wear scarf and moderate dresses and trousers. Then you gotta wonder why somali women looks like some kind of lion sea. Alipapa
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| | Wednesday, January 31, 2001 - 04:28 pm I READ ALL AND I THANK ALL THE SISTERS AND BROTHERS WHO PASTED THESE TOPICS IN HERE. THE INTERNET IS FULL OF INFORMATION BUT POSTING THESE IN HERE IS EVEN BETTER. WE DON'T NEED THE LINKS SINCE THE SERVERS THAT ARE HOSTING THESE PAGES SOMETIMES GO DOWN. SOO KEEP COYING AND PASTING IT HERE...ALIPAPA..LINKS LEAD TO NOWHERE SOMETIMES... JAZAAKALLAH A TUTTI.....
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| | Wednesday, January 31, 2001 - 04:59 pm Salaama Aleikum First of All let me applaud my sisters Defending Islam May Allaah bless you, I have seen before lot of sisters Following there Desires,Thanks to Allaah lot of Sis are backing to there Deen. Second Alipapa your calling sister with Hijab guinea pig May Allaah give you what you deserve good or bad. What we are expecting Non-Muslims when So called Muslim called Pig our sister?
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| | Wednesday, January 31, 2001 - 05:00 pm I am confused, and correct me if I am wrong. If Muslim Women are so special and protected by Islam then why do many muslim men marry Christian women who show it all? Would I be wrong to say that the marriage rate between Muslim men and Christian women is growing? Would I also be wrong to say that Muslim men feel that Christian women are better in bed than muslim women??? Now if any of these be true statements then why should the Muslim woman dress up like some type of goon so no one will even desire her while the muslim men are looking at the Christian ladies with the short dresses on???? Is that fair????? You tell me bro!!!!!
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| | Wednesday, January 31, 2001 - 06:04 pm Yahya Khan My sincerest congratulation in raising this interesting topic. My dear unkown friend those wingers believe a version of Islam that is truelly Somalian and I call it Somalia's folkoloric religion. Secondly, they have to be an idiot not to admit that all religions are blind faith. God is not something that is tangible which means that you can't prove practically that he/she/it may really exist. Religion was established by great philosophers of distant time who were looking a way out of never-ending wars, and they intended to create a world of peacefull co-existance. However, those who invented those religions were so pre-ocupied in making peace among men that they have deliberately neglected all females in bestowing similar rights to those offered to men. Imagine my friend your ancestor what he used to believe before the arrival of Islam. Do you think that he made a wise decission in opting for Islam? What proof was he shown that Islam is really a factual religion. If the Christians came earlier could we have been Christians today? If you compare yourself to that ancestor, who is the more smarter today? Some Somali's are so narrow-minded that I can't even question my own BELIEF system. Grow-up guys.
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| | Wednesday, January 31, 2001 - 07:13 pm ACUUDI BILAAHI MINASHAYDAANI RAJIIM. It looks like Islam is under attack here in the Somali net forums than anywhere else. I've not seen such a blatant attack towards Islam in all my live. My brothers and sisters, do you know these people? Do you ever ask yourselves who they could be? I doubt at all that these people could be Somalis. And if there are, then a lot of things have changed for the worst. My people, or at least those I have known, never have doubted Allah, his books and his prophets. Through my live, I have seen Somalis who don't practice Islam, as matter of fact I have seen many who drink Qamrah, don't pray Salad at all, don't fast the month of Ramadan and yet they would allow anyone to call them a non-Moslem. How dare you call me a non-Moslem? They would right away ask you. I don't know weather that attitude is good or bad but I know for sure that they are much better than those who today call themselves Somalis and at the same time do every thing to decry Islam. As I sit in my room and read these postings I wonder what causes them to write these dreadful things about Islam. Are they doing this just to grab our attention? Or perhaps now they are in the western world they are exercising the so-called freedom speech, or may be they want to show off the good English they now speak? Whatever the reason may be they are asking for Allah's anger and that is not something to wish for. What should we do then? Since, we have no power of keeping them from posting these awful massages, I think we should refrain ourselves from debating with them. I know many of you would do every thing to defend Islam. But is it worth talking to these people at all? Do you think they will listen to you?
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| | Wednesday, January 31, 2001 - 10:15 pm Alipapa lol.. Sea Lion or maybe dressed up hippopotamus I noticed myself this woman are either feeble minded who are being led astray by sick beardos or they simply feel unatractive and they want to hide behind huge curtain and call that Hijaab!! I myself have been to a lot of different Muslim countries and never seen such ugly site like this creatures who look like dresses up Bigs. Somali woman used to be active and productive but since this Sic beardos and curtain dressing coons implemented their version of Slam, we lost whole generation of productive Females!!
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| | Thursday, February 01, 2001 - 04:44 am Yaha-Khan, first of all you are so dumb...honestly I never come a cross a dumby like you......what a woman preforms in bed has nothing to do with religion.....come on.....what does that have anything to do with it..... and if you are refaring to somali womans....that has it's explination it is the consecvense of FGM......you are so foolish....you asked a question you got answeres and yet you are not satisfied you bring up another subject what's up with that??????? and Ali papa ............................ ........................................ ........................................ .................................. ..................read between the lines you get it if you are smart................ 
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| | Thursday, February 01, 2001 - 08:11 am AM SHOCKED BEYOND WORDS! THIS IS DA MOST INSULTING POST I EVER COME ACROSS.. I agree with brother ISSA<<<< thez fre*aks can't be Somaliz... they just using our name. Whats da point of answering them anywayz.?? BUDHIST DUDE got his answers.... beautifully displayed to him in black and white ! Hey listen up ignorants... wanna learn about Islam? Go hit da books, there are dozens of them out there in da world...dont come here wasting pages with ur pathetic questions!. I HAVE BEEN ON THIS NET 4 A WHILE...AND SURELY I HAVE SEEN "BRAIN WASHED" FELLAS..! Who knowz this could be just one person imposting as multiple fre^ks...>>>cuz i know they do multiply like virus.! OR this could be MADMAC( and his missionary crew) ..... I HATED THIS FELLA FOR A LONG!! AND STILL HATE HIS STINKING ASSS! p.s. SOMALI PEEPZ... KEEP IT ROLLING....and if FREAKS GET OUT OF CONTROL... WE TEACH DEM DA HARD WAYZ! To all da ladies who positively replied to this post(esp HALIMO+JAMIILA)...... MUCH LUV TO U! PEACE
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| | Thursday, February 01, 2001 - 09:15 am Yahya-khan Islam should be the only religon for women all over the world, becuase it treats them the best. Why do you get this stupid idea?, because you see some so called muslim men mistreat their women, these men are not real muslims. If you are a real muslim, you should read and understand the Quran and Hadith, before you say anything. My muslim brothers and sisters, I agree with Issa, our great religon is under attack on this forums, and I doubt these ppl are Somalis. These ppl are satans little messengers, they should be ignored and not replied to.
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| | Thursday, February 01, 2001 - 10:42 am Hassan and Moh Luv..... brothers belive it theese people are somalians I'm 100% sure of it.....it's about time we open our eyes and see the reality as it is.....now days somalie people are not what they used to be.....I'm not saying every somalie is bad......but now days I have seen that it is so easy to influence my brothers and sisters......some of them are lost and some of them choose to belive in other religion than Islam just beacuse they are running from their roots......some are so lost that they think by changing religon the get respect from the white man.......we have to face this........this is reality..... much love to my brothers and sisters in Islam.......don't take this personal......answer them with much love don't answer when you are angry.......and Allah swt told us that we should be polite when we are debating with the people of the book ( JEWS, CHRISTIANS) so that for I apoligise that I wasn't polite when I answered you..................... to the budhsite............tell me what makes your religion better than Islam......I'm very curios to know
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| | Thursday, February 01, 2001 - 10:51 am loooool@ALIPAPA I reckon it's ugly as well but the thing I don't understand is why they insist on wearing the most hideous looking colors for example lime Green with Brown lol.I hope I don't end up wearing that when i'm a seinor.
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| | Thursday, February 01, 2001 - 12:25 pm Salaam Aleikum Last two years Somalinet was the place to attack Islam and Our culture, and those who are attacking are narrow-minded somalis brain-washed by western media. Insulting Hijab its likewise calling Qurun false, Allaah order Women to cover her modest. As Allaah promised that he will proctect his followers from Satan and human evil
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| | Thursday, February 01, 2001 - 12:43 pm Jamiila you are right, it's true some Somali ppl are totally lost and are easily influenced by satan and his followeres. But, Somalia ppl, even if they had doubts about our great religon, they would not have said anything. The western government's hatered for Islam is huge, and they will do anything in their power to take ppl off the right path.
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| | Thursday, February 01, 2001 - 02:15 pm Dear brother and sister i have just read all of your comments and I really find them interesting, my name is Suleiman and I am hassan's friend. I am Somalian and proud of it and I believe Somalian people are one of great creations of ALLAH(swt). I would like to make a small point on why Somalian people are in this situation, and also couple a of suggestions on how we can get out of it as a muslim nation. The reason why Somalia is in this disgusting situation is that we do not fear Allah as much as we should have. Also nothing happens without the will of ALLAH. O brother/sister do you not remember ANSAR AND MUJAHAREEN WHERE BITTER ENEMIES AND THEY BELONGED TO DIFFERENT CLANS BUT THEN MUHAMAD(PBUH) COME TO THEM WITH A MESSAGE TO FEAR AND OBEY ALLAH. AFTER THAT THEY FEARED ALLAH(SWT), AND ALLAH MADE THEIR HEARTS BECAME AS ONE. So ppl lets use this example so we can have peace in Somalia.
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| | Thursday, February 01, 2001 - 03:18 pm Religious folks, Anyone of you who have any explanation of why only somali women would wear this-ugly bag and wahabiya-made--hipo-looking stuff should drop me line. I need him/her show me where and when Allah ordered such thing. And please note i am not against a somali women wearing moderate dress (scarf, long sleeved shirt, long skirt, long dress)like any other muslim women, on planet mother earth, would wear . I am against the ugly one that only and only somali women wear those days--the one that made our women and islam look really bad. The rest of belind followers and wahabiya fooled folks can say what they have to say. they are exercising their born rights of freedom of expression. Again, drop me line if you think that ugly stuff is in the Koran or it is islamic dress code. Jeego, Man, thanks for seeing that ugly stuff. Whenever i see it part of me just die. You gotta wonder how these poor Allah-fearing women have been fooled by wadaad xume to believe this ugly stuff is devine from Allah!. you see jeego, Somali women are known wearing "garba saar" and "guntiino" or "diric". And they were just roaming around on the whole planet feeling save because somali men are not sexual preditors like arabs. They used to go anywhere they wanted without experiencing either physical harm neither reputation one. Then wahabiya came and all over sudden they put them in prison and impose them on wearing this hipo looking stuff. No way man. we need to fight back. we have to tell wahabiya that we need our women's fashion back--the way they used to be. Gheto, No you won't. In factyou can only wear that ugly stuff beyond your sanity.It got nothing to do with islam.but hey you can wear if your burned yourself down or lost some of your beauty to scam some poor wahabi guy. lol. Alipapa
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| | Thursday, February 01, 2001 - 03:40 pm It is apparent that most muslim women are afraid to really speak their minds because of threats and intimidation by the Muslim men. Why is it that Muslim women only look good when they wear western clothing. As you know - its a new day all over the world. Some Muslims still have that 14 century islamic mentality but technology has made the world smaller and it is a global world now. Not to insult anyone but no male nor female muslim really answered my question about why muslim men marry christian ladies (my own brother too) if muslim ladies are special in islam. Many muslim men are attracted to christian women because they dont wear muslim women clothing. A muslim woman looks very attract when she too wear christian clothing but you cant have it both ways. I will forget about why Islam condon Slavery of people for another time. Even the Sab clans are slaves in Somalia and Islam condons it all.
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| | Thursday, February 01, 2001 - 04:09 pm Yahya- khan, are you muslim?, if so read and understand the holly Quran. If not, what makes you think you know anything about our religon. Islam has remaind pure since the days of MUHAMAD(PBUH), that's the great thing about our religon. Now, to answer your question, many muslim men are mislaed, are lured into this world by the media, ppl like you, then they think christain women are better. Don't all women look the same underneath clothing?. Look, all you mislead ppl, religon was not meant to be a fashion show, a nice ride, it was meant to be tough, sometimes you have to do things that are uncomfertable, But isn't it worth paying the price for heaven?.
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| | Friday, February 02, 2001 - 03:44 pm yahye-khan, That uestion of yours should be simple. In islam it is allowed that muslim can marry christian woman. And today christians countries dominate the economically, politically and militarily. Thus, lead many muslim men immigrated to the christian countries. And in order the new immigrant muslim men to find way of staying and wroking this christian countries is to marry christian women which is lawfull in islman. They didn't violate any islamic rule nor any other secular one. And one more thing, it is the christian woman that is very where looking for a man since there are no enough men here in the christian countries. Alipapa I hope you have the answer you wanted.
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| | Friday, February 02, 2001 - 04:34 pm yahya , or what ever your real name is , are you an agent of some secret service? because abviously you are not muslim. we as somalis explicitly reject your ideas. somalis aren't sell outs like you cow worshipper , we are one ummah under allah, peace to muslims , and fear to kafirs and the infidels.
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| | Saturday, February 03, 2001 - 02:14 pm I think to be a muslim is to be an Arab or an Arab-wanna-bee! It is written ...with stammering lips and another tongue will God talk with HIS people... So that means in many languages will God talk with HIS people not only arabic! I will not ask anymore questions (out of respect for muslims) that may be offensive to islam. After all - none of you wrote the Quran and shouldnt have to answer for whats in it.
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| | Sunday, February 04, 2001 - 10:07 am Yahye, You sound a lil confused teen-age....All you saY is "I think this & That"...Al-Islam we don't saY "I THINK" everYthing has been divined & cleared for us ....to be A Muslim has nuthin' to do with being an Arab.. Al-Islam is the natural way of life for all of humanity not onlY Arabs..and everY human being is born a muslim .its our inviroment that makes us other that ..there are Billions of Muslims around the world .what makes u think they are all Arabs & Arab wanna-bees??..
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| | Sunday, February 04, 2001 - 10:21 am Dear Zulu It seems that to read, write and speak Arabic that more acceptable as a muslim than those that can't. It is like in Roman Christian religion, only those who speak Latin will benefit. It is the duty for all muslims to go to Arabia to make Hajj and everything islamic tends to go Arabic culture. All muslims seems to adapt Arabic culture or they try hard to be more Arab as a status symbol. Sudan has started the Arabization of its country, Arab and islam goes hand-N-hand. I think yoiu refuse to see but are looking at Islam with Rose-Colored-glasses on. Think brother - I shouldnt have to do that for you??! peace
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| | Friday, February 09, 2001 - 10:35 am Yahya-Khan: I admire your questioning of Islam. At last people can ask the hard questions. And questions regarding women, slavery, and tolerance ARE hard for Muslims, because deep down inside they know the Qur'an/Hadith are not appropriate moral standards for the twenty-first century. They may have been revolutionary in the 6th century, but this is a different era: people are more open-minded, they feel safe in questioned cherished myths and beliefs (unless a fatwa is issued against them, of course!). They go right to the source, instead of relying on their Sheiks and parents to tell them what the Qur'an and Hadith say. I note the spin-doctoring the Muslim-apologists have made regarding women and slavery, so they could win converts and feel good about their outdated faith. But the truth is, women ARE treated unfairly in the Qur'an and in the Hadith. Saying that this is okay because Christians and Jews treated women worse is no solution, it just side-steps the issue and sends a red herring. I am always surprised by how many Muslims, when questioned about the injustices/cruelties in Muslim history, say, "yeah, so what? Christians and Jews were even worse!" First of all, you can't compare the way Christians/Jews WERE, to the way Muslims ARE, and say that Muslims come out on top. You have to compare contemporary Islam to contemporary Christianity, and if you do that, you realise that while Muslims were clinging to fake memories of a Golden Age of Islam, Christians were looking around and adjusting their outlooks to new truths about nature. The Roman Catholic church now accepts evolution (although they probably have a "special creation" clause for humans), while the majority of Muslims still cling to the idea that the world is flat. As an example of how Muslims often confuse the past with the present, let me relate a typical conversation with a Muslim: Me: Why does a woman only inherit half of what her brother inherits in the Qur'an? Muslim: Because men must take care of women. Me: But if a woman knows that her brother won't take care of her, can she demand an exception to the Shariah law, and get an equal inheritence? Muslim: NO! That would be disobedience to the Qur'an, and so it's haram. Me: So then it's better for her to starve to death, or marry purely for money, or work as a prostitute if she can't find financial support elsewhere? Muslim: She has to be a pure Muslima, and a Muslima never prostitutes herself!!! Me: You failed to note the other possibilities. Muslim: Oh. Well, you know what, do you know that women in the West weren't even allowed to own property until the end of the nineteenth century? And they couldn't vote until the twentieth century? Me: And your point is.......? Muslim: That Islam is best for women. Me: But it isn't: In the West, a woman can inherit a 100% of her father's property, if her father wants her to. She can vote. She can run for office. It's no accident that MSA all over America are presided over by men, that most Muslim countries specify in their constitutions that women can't be president, and some don't even allow them to vote. Whereas Christian organizations, scientific institutions, hospitals, research societies, atheist organizations, women's shelters, and myriad other PUBLIC organizations have women at the helm. Often you'll hear a Muslim say that women are not better off in a democratic Western country because they don't get paid as much as men are, or don't attain high offices as easily. Ever heard of pay equity? A short while ago, women working for the Canadian gov't sued it for pay inequity, and they received BACKPAY! Democratic nations don't ignore their weaknesses and discrimination against women, they address them and improve on their record. They don't sit on their tarnished laurels, mouthing hypocrisies about women being "truly equal". They pass legislature, change laws, and abolish laws that institutionalize unfair practices. Western nations fund research to find out why women are not going into law, or politics, or business. More often than not, they find out it's because women don't feel welcome in these fields. Often an institution is graded in terms of how many women it has in high offices. The annual ranking of business schools, for example, is based partly on how many tenured female faculty teach in a school. So schools have a good reason to hire more female professors, if they want to score higher on the ranking. Companies hire employment consultants to find out why they don't have enough women, or why women are leaving them. They then change their policies to reflect recommendations made by them, so that they could attract more women: they provide incentives, or give longer maternity leaves, or teach their male employees about gender equity. If we want to compare nations, beliefs and laws, we have to compare them in the same time-frame: not old abolished Western laws, to present-day Islamic laws so that Islamic laws can look good by comparison. That's just cheap. Muslim: Islam is the best way!!! To question the Qur'an is bid'a!!! I will go to Hell for listening to you!!! Shut up you Westernized faggot!!!! "For ages, a deadly conflict has been waged between a few brave men and women of thought and genius upon the one side, and the great ignorant religious mass on the other. This is the war between Science and Faith. The few have appealed to reason, to honour, to law, to freedom, to the known, and to happiness here in this world. The many have appealed to prejudice, to fear, to miracle, to slavery, to the unknown, and to misery hereafter. The few have said, "Think!" The many have said, "Believe!" [The Gods, 1872] Robert Green Ingersoll
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| | Friday, February 09, 2001 - 11:08 am PragmaticGal, I agree with you totally! But what makes even less sense to me is that muslim women themselves(no offense to you sister) seem to be brain-washed and conditioned into a false reality! If you ask a muslim woman why does she allow herself to be kiced in her a55 all the time with a obselete religion she will tell you that it was not my a55 but my legs and Islam allows for that. It will take the younger generations to see beyond the intimidations and threats to make a change. PragmaticGal I know you have suffered alot yourself by muslims. It is so hard being different and having your own mind. peace
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| | Friday, February 09, 2001 - 04:14 pm So where are all the sisters with the open minds to speak on this issue? Please dont feel threaten or intimidated
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| | Friday, February 09, 2001 - 04:43 pm Yahya-Khan: <If you ask a muslim woman why does she allow herself to be kiced in her a55 all the time with a obselete religion she will tell you that it was not my a55 but my legs and Islam allows for that.> YOu don't know the half of it. Ask a Muslim woman why her Just and Merciful God allows a man to beat her in the Qur'an, and she'll say, "but the Qur'an says to beat LIGHTLY". Ask her why she's only allowed to inherit half her brother's and she'll say, "but at least I am allowed to inherit, unlike the [obsolete] laws of the West". Ask her why she's not allowed to become Imam, and she won't have much to say, but she'll spend a long time saying it. But let's not be unfair to Muslim women and assume they are all brainwashed. Remember, they still have advantages: the can turn their nose up at non-Muslims; they can let someone else doing their thinking and be ruled by men (it's sometimes nice to let someone else take the responsibility for your own life); they can feel good about THEORETICALLY having it better than 18th century non-Muslim women (although you'll be hardpressed to find ONE Muslim woman who get to practice half the rights she touts as rightfully hers "under Islam" ); Muslim women also go to heaven, if they are obedient to their husbands and the Qur'an, if they are retiring, obsequious, saccharine-sweet, always keep their legs open for their husbands BUT closed to all other men, etc.... The younger generation do indeed see beyond the bullshit fed to the old, but most of them are being fed more bullshit by Muslim apologists who insist on describing Islam as adhering to "peace, diversity, equality" and other nice slogans that are rarely put into effect or scrutinized closely...... Just ask yourself one question: If Islam is such a moderate, practical, sensible, moral alternative to godlessness, why is it no Muslim nation practices it to the satisfaction of the majority of Muslims? You always hear the sentiment, "Muslims are not Islam", but the question is, "why not?" Is Islam so impractical, so unfair, and whimsical that no nation can actually implement it's laws, and no individual can live up to it?
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| | Friday, February 09, 2001 - 05:23 pm Wheeeeeeeeew! Sister, sister, sister! I feel your pain! YOu are the VOICE that is so needed in these forumss. But I am afraid that Bullies will try to scare you and intimidate you into SLAM submission. BUt I want you to know that I am with you and for you in your plight! If you like PragmaticGal we can create a Muslims women manifesto-discussion group. One step at a time. Oh by the way do I have your permission to copy some of your statements to other discussions? I really got an ear full and it saddens me too. peace
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| | Thursday, February 15, 2001 - 12:19 pm What a bunch of hypocrites you are guys. Religion sets up the basic structure of how one should live their life, so that they would be rewarded with benefits in after life. In my experience with meeting other Somali expats, I can conclude that the Somali faith is Tribal than Islam. When the discussion hovers around tribal-wars, most of them blindly stand up to their tribe, even if this includes atrocities that their tribe committed against others. This is the true anarchic nature of the Somali culture. However, when the issue becomes one that questions Islam or, criticisms that relates to gender issues in Islam, those tribal voices unite in annihilating the messenger even before h/her message is heard. Somalis are natural born anarchists for the simple reason that we were too dumb to follow ignorant men and the way they interpreted religion. Truly Somali women have suffered enormously and it is time that they should seek alternatives to Islam or Allah.
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| | Thursday, February 15, 2001 - 12:47 pm i AM MAREEHAAN ,,NOOLAADAA WALIGIIN,,HOOYADIIN WASEE
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| | Thursday, February 15, 2001 - 04:39 pm No Fear, I agree with you totally! It is better that traditional women who are intimidated to stay with islam have the courage to venture out and live their lives as normal women. God loves us all and wants us to keep HIS commandments but not be manipulated by culture and threats. Women shouldnt be robots but choose a lifestyle that will make them happy. One of the first commandments God gave mankind was to be fruitful and multiply and replish the earth. If you are not married and not having children then you are not functioning into your God given capabilites. Make the choice to find your own lifestyle that will both keep God's commandments and make you happy too.
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| | Wednesday, February 21, 2001 - 12:37 pm Yahya-Khan, Brother I appreciate your sympathy but I feel you might have misunderstood me: I am NOT a Muslim. Therefore, I could not in good conscience participate in a Muslim women's organization. Judging by your latest posting, you seem like someone who's a Muslim or at least believes in God, so I didn't want you to mistake my posting for other than what it was... E-mail me at PragmaticGal@hotmail.com if you would like to discuss more.
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