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Why does Islam condon Slavery of human beings: Sab Clan Slavery still exists!

SomaliNet Forum (Archive): General Discusions: Archive (Before Feb. 16, 2001): Why does Islam condon Slavery of human beings: Sab Clan Slavery still exists!
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Yahya-Khan

Thursday, February 01, 2001 - 04:02 pm
The Yibir clan and many other so-called Sab Clans are nothing more than 21th century slaves. How can you call yourself muslim and condon such behavior? Why enslave your own Somali brothern and feel so pompous to call yourself Muslims. Many negative behaviors performed by so-call Muslims are driving others away. Search the depths of your heart for truth and you will know that this practice is not fair.

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Edil

Thursday, February 01, 2001 - 04:35 pm
Yahya Khan

You should steak to one Topic.

It does not seem like you want to know any of these answers, as you seem to already have made up your mind.

My answer to you is very simple, Islam, means "submission to god(ALLAH) the creator of the universe"

Muslims are those who take that religion.
Some are stronger than others and follow everything that the religion commands and others, are not so religious.

You have to be able to separate the two, don't confuse them to be one.

So now my question is, which one do you want an answer to?

I will be very happy to explain to you about Islam and its grounds, but if you want to know "why some Muslims do this?,"
I am sorry, I won't be able to help you with that.
It would be like asking, "Why do some people kill?"
I hope you understand, people cannot all be the same. Every society, have some of those people you mentioned.

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Kubalah-Khan

Thursday, February 01, 2001 - 04:45 pm
Yibir is Yibir

Sab is Sab

Slave is Slave

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Yahya-Khan

Thursday, February 01, 2001 - 04:57 pm
Any time a society allows an injustice all are guilty of the crime. To enslave Sab clan people for centuries is a very big crime.

Slavery - you are either for it or against it. And if you are against slavery of your own Muslim countrymen you would have stopped this practice years ago.

Even the white Christians in the USA went to war to free slavery of black people. Many of them give their lives to fight and die to stop slavery but it still goes on today in Muslim countries - WHY?

Please no more excuses!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Edil

Thursday, February 01, 2001 - 05:12 pm
Yahya-khan

Can you please name the "Muslim countries" that
condone the slavery you speak of(name them please!!)
Or it it one of those "propaganda," stereotypical
views that the west has?

I am not even familiar with this clan slavery that
you are speaking of.

Is that the Clan war that is taken place in Somalia that you are referring to?

If that's the case, then you have to understand most of us here are victims of the war. If we condoned it, we would have been part of it( with guns) But we are here seeking peace and trying to get our country back to order instead.

Just explain what you referring to.

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Yahya-Khan

Thursday, February 01, 2001 - 06:23 pm
I am referring to slavery in Mauritania, Somalia, Sudan, Saudi Arabia etc etc

Have you heard of Sab clan slaves before - like the Yibir in the north of Somalia?

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azhom

Thursday, February 01, 2001 - 07:43 pm
It would have been better if some evidence was
put forward to support your claims concerning slavery's existance in Somalia and other muslim countries you mentioned. But if your intention is to spread state department propaganda, you have chosen the wrong crowd. However it is worth mentioning that discrimination dose exist in areas of marriage and employment where Somalia is
concerned. This discrimination effects all Somalia
Society although some clans are discriminate against very frequently. and like all other societies it is something we are not proud of.
It is my hope Somalis will use the altimate cure (Islam).

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BLACKRAP

Thursday, February 01, 2001 - 08:28 pm
Gentlemen, I greet you here on the bank of the James River in the year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and twelve. First, I shall thank you, the gentlemen of the Colony of Virginia, for bringing me here. I am here to help you solve some of your problems with slaves. Your invitation reached me on my modest plantation in the West Indies where I have experimented with some of the newest and still the oldest methods of control of slaves. Ancient Rome would envy us if my program were implemented. As our boat sailed south on the James River, named for our illustrious King, whose version of the Bible we cherish. I saw enough to know that your problem is not unique. While Rome used cords of woods as crosses for standing human bodies along its highways in great numbers you are here using the tree and the rope on occasion.
I caught the whiff of a dead slave hanging from a tree a couple of miles back. You are not only losing a valuable stock by hangings, you are having uprisings, slaves are running away, your crops are sometimes left in the fields too long for maximum profit, you suffer occasional fires, your animals are killed. Gentlemen, you know what your problems are: I do not need to elaborate. I am not here to enumerate your problems, I am here to introduce you to a method of solving them. In my bag here, I have a fool proof method for controlling your Black slaves. I guarantee everyone of you that if installed correctly it will control the slaves for at least 300 hundred years. My method is simple. Any member of your family or your overseer can use it.

I have outlined a number of differences among the slaves: and I take these differences and make them bigger. I use fear, distrust, and envy for control purposes. These methods have worked on my modest plantation in the West Indies and it will work throughout the South. Take this simple little list of differences, and think about them. On top of my list is "Age", but it is there only because it starts with an "A": the second is "Color" or shade, there is intelligence, size, sex, size of plantations, status on plantation, attitude of owners, whether the slave live in the valley, on hill, East, West, North, South, have fine hair, coarse hair, or is tall or short. Now that you have a list of differences. I shall give you an outline of action-but before that I shall assure you that distrust is stronger than trust and envy is stronger than adulation, respect, or admiration.

The Black slave after receiving this indoctrination shall carry on and will become self re-fueling and self generating for hundreds of years, maybe thousands. Don't forget you must pitch the old Black male vs. the young Black male, and the young Black male against the old Black male. You must use the dark skin slaves vs. the light skin slaves and the light skin slaves vs. the dark skin slaves. You must use the female vs. the male, and the male vs. the female. You must also have your white servants and overseers distrust all Blacks, but it is necessary that your slaves trust and depend on us. They must love, respect and trust only us. Gentlemen, these kits are your keys to control. Use them. Have your wives and children use them, never miss an opportunity. If used intensely for one year, the slaves themselves will remain perpetually distrustful. Thank you, gentlemen.


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BLACKRAP

Thursday, February 01, 2001 - 08:37 pm
Slavery in Islam
The Quran
O mankind! We created you from a single soul, male and female, and made you into nations and tribes, so that you may come to know one another. Truly, the most honored of you in God's sight is the greatest of you in piety. God is All-Knowing, All-Aware. -- 49:13
Prophet Muhammad, 570--632 AD
. . . yield obedience to my successor, although he may be an Abyssinian slave.
He will not enter paradise who behaveth ill to his slaves. The companions said, "O Apostle of God! Have you not told us, that there will be a great many slaves and orphans amongst your disciples?" He said, "Yes; then be kind to them as your own children, and give them to eat of what you eat yourselves. The slaves that say their prayers are your brothers."

[The first call to prayer at the Quba mosque built by Prophet Muhammad was given in 622 by Bilal -- a black slave freed by the Prophet. The Supreme Court of the United States declared in 1857 that the slave Dred Scott could not sue for his freedom because he was not a person, but property.]

Annemarie Schimmel, Islam: An Introduction
Slavery was not abolished by the Koran, but believers are constantly admonished to treat their slaves well. In case of illness a slave has to be looked after and well cared for. To manumit [free] a slave is higly meritorious; the slave can ransom himself by paying some of the money he has earned while conducting his own business. Only children of slaves or non-Muslim prisoners of war can become slaves, never a freeborn Muslim; therefore slavery is theoretically doomed to disappear with the expansion of Islam. The entire history of Islam proves that slaves could occupy any office, and many former military slaves, usually recruited from among the Central Asian Turks, became military leaders and often even rulers as in eastern Iran, India (the Slave Dynasty of Delhi), and medieval Egypt (the Mamluks). Eunuchs too served in important capacities, not only as the guardians of the women's quarters, but also in high administrative and military positions. -- p. 67
Roger Du Pasquier, Unveiling Islam
To answer this question, it should first be remarked that Islam has tolerated slavery but has never approved of it, and that all its teachings and prescriptions in this regard lead to its alleviation as far as possible in the short term, and, in the longer term, conduce to its progressive suppression. To abolish it would have been impossible in a world in which it was generally practiced by all the states which bordered on the new Muslim empire, and in which the idea of challenging the principle itself had not occurred to anyone. It was the custom to enslave prisoners of war -- when these were not simply massacred -- and the Islamic state would have put itself at a grave disadvantage vis-a-vis its enemies had it not reciprocated to some extent. By guaranteeing them humane treatment, and various possibilities of subsequently releasing themselves, it ensured that a good number of combatants in the opposing armies preferred captivity at the hands of Muslims to death on the field of battle.
It should be very clearly underlined that the slavery once practiced in the Muslim world cannot be compared to the form it had assumed -- for instance -- in the Roman Empire. Islamic legislation subjected slaveowners to a set of precise obligations, first among which was the slave's right to life, for, according to a hadith, 'Whoever kills his slave shall be killed by us'. In consequence, the murder of a slave was punished like that of a free man.

There are many other hadiths which define Islam's true attitude in this regard. The Prophet said: 'Your slaves are your brethren; therefore whoever has a brother who depends upon him must feed and clothe him in the way he feeds and clothes himself; and should not impose upon him tasks which exceed his capacity; should you ask them to do such things, then you are obliged to help them.' The Sharia takes this injunction, among many others, into account when defining the responsibilities and duties of slaveholders.

There is another teaching which enjoins respect for the human dignity of slaves: 'Let none of you say, "This man, or this woman, is my slave". He must rather say: "This is my man, and this my woman."' Putting into relief the provisional character of social ties and the authority exercised by slaveowners over their slaves, the Prophet said: 'It is true that God has made you their masters, but, had He so wished, He could equally well have made you their slaves.'

To manumit a slave has always been regarded as one of the most meritorious of all acts, and many passages of the Qur'an recommend or even require it, particularly as a means of expiation for serious faults. Traditional legislation lays down the methods of voluntary liberation of slaves by their masters (itq), and there were very many Muslims who observed these, especially at the end of their lives, so as not to die and appear before God without having given full freedom to the human beings placed in their power during their earthly lives.

Additionally, slaves had the ability to enfranchise themselves at their own initiative, without waiting passively for the goodwill of their masters: the procedure known as mukataba allowed them to buy their own freedom with sums which they saved from their work, and which the state frequently augmented with advances -- a measure which the slaveowner had no right to oppose. In contrast to the situation under Roman law, slaves were not deprived of the legal ability to exercise their rights and to appeal to a judge against their masters in all cases of illegal treatment.

Besides domestic slavery, which was generally imbued with a patriarchal character, there also existed a form of military slavery, which was frequently employed by princes in need of recruits, especially for their personal guards. This situation had the effect of conferring an often considerable influence and power on men of servile condition or origin, and some of these became the founders of great and illustrious dynasties such as the Tulunids and Mamlukes of Egypt.

The object of a prosperous commercial sector, which under the Abbasid Empire was often the speciality of non-Muslims, particularly Byzantine and Venetian Christians, and Jews, slavery gradually declined in importance until, at the beginning of the present century, it was confined to a few survivals which have now disappeared entirely. Thanks to the strict traditional controls which have always regulated the practice, it would be difficult to deny that social conditions were remarkably humane during the great periods of Muslim civilization, and that these, moreover, were in conformity with the 'egalitarian' spirit of Islam, which, in a hadith, teaches that 'the blackest of Abyssinians' is superior to most noble of Quraishites, if he has more faith. -- p. 104 - 107

David Hecht, "Slavery" African Style
Howard Zinn, Declarations of Independence

The idea that entered Western consciousness several centuries ago, that black people are less than human, made possible the Atlantic slave trade, during which perhaps 40 million people died. -- p. 1
Sayyid Sa'eed Akhtar Rizvi, Slavery From Islamic and Christian Perspectives
Among all the religions it was only Islam that attacked the very foundations of this evil. -- preface
Sylviane A. Diouf, Servants of Allah: African Muslims Enslaved in the Americas
Author asserts that Islam was the first revealed religion followed by African slaves, and describes their struggle in upholding Islamic practices.

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Yahya-Khan

Friday, February 02, 2001 - 02:13 pm
BlackRap thanks for the informative information. It was quite enlightening.

But to say that slavery doesnt exist in Somalia is to have 2 blind eyes. Would you consider the role of muslim Sab clan members any less than slaves? They were not permitted to be educated like the American black people during slavery and still suffer a ethnic stigma that exist today.

It is good to talk about issues like this so that a solution may be developed.

Peace

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Ahmed

Friday, February 02, 2001 - 07:45 pm
Yahya Khan,

Brother khan, slavery of any kind is evil, I have lived all my life in a muslim Country, I have yet to see a human beings in bondage or held against their Will to freely exercise their god given freedom. If you are talking about discrimination of superficial supremacy in Somali tribal culture, or the rest of the world for that matter, I should agree with you definitively. Although some minorities are frequently discriminated Against more than others, the psychological effect are more or less the same. Prejudice and racism has no place in a civilized society, the same must be applied to Somali minorities.

As for your misguided information about Islam, I can only say to you, read the history of Christianity and slavery in contrast with Islam and slavery.

Speaking of Christianity and slavery, it was the last half of the fifteen-century when The Europeans developed a rationalization for their slave trade deeds on Christianity.
The Portuguese and the Spaniards led Europeans in invoking the missionary zeal of Christianity
to justify their activities on the African coast. Chaining Africans together for the purpose of
Consigning them to a lifetime of enforced servitude, was a “holy cause” in which they had
the blessings of both their king and their church.
Slavery in Islam was not an institution utilized for the production of goods from which wealth could be derived or to held people in captivity for profit. Only prisons of war was subject to a military and menial service. And if a prisoner
becomes a Muslim he or she would be released.

The true nature and the horror of slavery in the Christian world was revealed and manifested by those who lived under slavery and lynching.

David Walker Calls for Justice-1829
Walker’s appeal in four articles, he wrote:
“ I ask every man who has a heart, and is blessed with the privilege of believing-is not a God a God of justice to all his creatures? Do you say he is?
Then if he gives peace and tranquillity to tyrants, and permits them to keep our Fathers, our mothers, ourselves and our children in eternal ignorance and wretchedness,to support them and their families, would he be to us a God of justice? I ask O ye Christians!!! who hold us our children in the most object ignorance and degradation,that ever a people were afflicted with since the world began".

Henry Bibb Writes to His Former Master-1844

“You may perhaps think hard of us for running away from slavery, but as to myself, I have but one apology to make for it, which is this:
I have only to regret that I did not start an earlier period. I might have been Free long before I was. But you had it in your power to have kept me there Much longer than you did. I think it is very probable that I should have been
A toiling slave on your property today, if you had treated me differently.

To be compelled to stand by and see you whip and slash my wife without Mercy, when I could afford her no protection, not even by offering myselft suffer the lash in her place, was more than I felt it to be the duty of a slave Husband to endure, while the way was open to Canada. My infant child was also frequently flogged by Mrs. Gatewood, for crying, until its skin was bruised
literally purple. This kind of treatment was what drove me from home and family,to seek a better home for them. But I am willing to forget the past".
Narrative of the life and adventures of Henry Bibb, pp. 155-156.


Brother Khan, do you sincerely believe that the Somali minority communities are slaves? And therefore they should be emancipated. Or, they are been discriminated against socially and economically, and there is a need for social justice, perhaps civil rights movement?.

Wasallamu Aleykum.

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F.U.C.K-YAHYA-KHAN

Friday, February 02, 2001 - 10:09 pm
AM GONNA SLAVE YOU MOTHERFUCKER YAHYA KHAN
YOU WIL WIPED EVERY DAY 500 TIMES. YOU WILL BE MY FIELD NIGGER AND THEN HOUSE NIGGER, THEN BATHROOM NIGGER. THEN I WILL HANG YOU AND LYNCH YOU.
BIATCH GET OUT OF HERE WITH YOUR FILTH AND SICK WAYS.
SOMALIS AND MUSLIMS ARE BETTER OFF TO ENSLAVE ANOTHER HUMAN. WE KILL, WE MAIM THAT IS BETTER AND WE GONNA ENSLAVE YOU AND KILL YOU BIATCH.

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Ali Dahir

Saturday, February 03, 2001 - 12:25 am
Mr Khan,
I would like you check out for the name and origin of the name you referred in here, i.e. SAB... because the SAB are brothers of Samale and are not enslaved in Somalia. They live in south Somalia as Rahaweyns. May be you got the name wrong? Yibir, Midgaan, Madhiban, Tumaal iyo Riibi are clans that you are referring and they have absolutley nothing to do with SAB. Just seeking for clarification.

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Yahya-Khan

Saturday, February 03, 2001 - 12:07 pm
Ali Dahir

You are right! You forgot the Dir Clans too. I hear from them of how they are slaves in Somalia so dont deny it.

Also the Saudis call all blacks Ab or Abit meaning slave becauuse they had so many slaves so dont deny it

Also Sudan and Mauratinia has many slaves in this day - I even asked a southern sudanese my self

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LiberalLady

Saturday, February 03, 2001 - 08:45 pm
Islam does not make ppl slaves nor approves slavery. It's ppl who inslave other ppl. I think u r confusing CUSTOMS AND CONVENTION FOR RELIGION(ISLAM). KNOW THE DIFF BETWEEN RELIGION AND TRADITION BEFORE U ADDRESS SUCH A QUESTION.

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Anonymous

Sunday, February 04, 2001 - 08:58 am
LaddyL!!
Well said sis.

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Yahya-Khan

Sunday, February 04, 2001 - 09:48 am
LiberalLady,

If a muslim see an injustice and does nothing to stop it-is he guilty also? If in a Muslim country there is someone making alcohol and selling it to anyone who wants to but it will Muslims protest and try to stop this practice?

It is the same thing with cultural slavery and other practices that goes against human rights and civility - any and all Muslims who love justice and truth such put a stop to it!

It is easy to say "...oh islam doesnt condon this practice it is just cultural..." But if this cultrual practice goes agains human rights - its wrong and shouldnt be condoned by an Islamic country where Muslims rule.

Do you know the difference between right and wrong or are you into making excuses for others?

Now you consider what I said and answer these questions yes or no!

peace

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BLACKRAP

Monday, February 12, 2001 - 05:14 pm
Sounds like the sisters will have to rebuild somali. keep on thinking sister.

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Anonymous

Thursday, February 15, 2001 - 08:22 am
Is there really slavery in Somalia?

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Hibo

Thursday, February 15, 2001 - 08:57 am
This is what happens when culture & Religion r made the same.... differentiate them... Yahya.. don't blame Islam.. blame.. culture..!!

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