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     | Tuesday, February 27, 2001 - 01:28 pm Hello just observation..if some how some miracles break through and Bosaaso , Baladwayn , Banaadir , Baydhabo and Bakool agree to bring unity all south Somalia , will the north Somaliland reunite and bring Berbera , Boorama and Burao to beautiful One Somalia ? or is that mean the youg generation of Somaliland have the same sentiment there will be no reunion ..I know lot of them were born south Somalia especially Hodan Kasapopolare which I grew up myself .. please respond friendly ...thank you all..
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| | Tuesday, February 27, 2001 - 01:47 pm as a mere observation , boramo, las anood ,some of ceerigavo people have nothing to do with the notion of breaking somalia.let's be serious, the people who want to break away are the isaaqs. here is my take though. read my lips , no one can and will brake up somalia. the northerners are very civilised and shown a great capacity for civil society. what ever happens, there won't be dictatorship from the south, so there should n't be fear and paranoa that would only serve those that are the power hungry. history will be the witness.so i don't know why are you making the northerners as a breakaway repubic. no one recognized it and no one will.
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| | Tuesday, February 27, 2001 - 04:04 pm Assalamu Aliakum, Dear Ali_ghedi, I find your remarks quite ludicrous and unsubstantiated. For your information, Pan-Somalism was the euphoria behind the illegal union of Somaliland and Somalia. As I have stated time and again, the constitution was never ratified in Somaliland in 1961. In addition, there was no such thing as "beautiful one Somalia" as you put it, for the people of Somaliland were a mere Colony of Somalia for 3 decades. Not to dwell in the past, but was it not Ali Mahdi who proclaimed himself President of all of Somalia without any consultation with any one, before Somaliland decided to reclaim its sovereignty? As much as you would like to distort the truth, Somalia Proper is solely responsible for the disintegration of the former Somali Republic. The ideal of Somali Unity has been perverted and vandalized by Somalia Proper. Today, by the grace of the Almighty Somaliland has recovered. There is no reason to re-invent the wheel; we have seen the fruits of the illegal merger with Somalia. If we forget, we don't have to go far; we are reminded of what it was like, by the unexploded ordinances buried on our soil that detonate from time to time. Having said that, I pray to the Almighty that people from Somalia Proper relinquish themselves from this turmoil and turn to being the best of the greatest people in the world that they can be. Wassalam Wa bilaahi Towfiiq
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| | Tuesday, February 27, 2001 - 07:31 pm Mr, Right on bro.. Wooow...your answer was the most civilised answer I have ever seen a Somali propose in these forumss. BTW, I am not a secessionist, but liked the way you responded, that's what I call civilization.
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| | Tuesday, February 27, 2001 - 09:54 pm Mr 5 star onething I salute and admire very especial way the people of Somaliland , all communities how courteous manner they handle this difficult time of Somali history , compare to south..very gracious..I salute you again all Somaliland ..you said the people who want to break away are the Isaaqs ...are all Isaaq community share this feeling or is it small group only ? the last One the era of dictatorship is Over ...................................... Dear Mr.. after Somalia gain its independent , both North and South the founding fathers their jubilant nattionalism , the north came when the south become independent after four days to unite greater Somalia both in seaking to distance itself from its colonial past . its true the Somali constitution did not include strategies designed to move citizens away from clan loyalties and toward National object...and this [One beautiful Somalia]will never die in my heart.]..1960-69 yes there were mistakes happen but from 1969---1991 we most Somali's were under severe dictatorial colony both north and south , and after..Ali Mahdi and all other warlords who committed this savage crime we will hold accountable and wait the right time to come..Yes this mess created by Somali's solely .and must clean by Smali's solely ..the peace and prosperity in the north Somaliland I am raelly very proud that we have some Somali community who are well civilize ,and always all my prayers with you .and I pray every single day Almighty Allah to unite peace in our hearts..thank you
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| | Wednesday, February 28, 2001 - 03:06 am The one beautiful somali you are talking about did not last long did it, first thing is first i am issaq and personaly take pride in the way somaliland is recovering form the civil -war which we did not initiate , but were pushed into, by the unjust way we were treated, what is the point of the reunification of somaliland with somalia it did not work the last time , why should it work this time triblism still exists and that is the problem besides the wounds and pain caused by the civil-war need to heal. as for triblism the whole thing is pathetic and my stand on it is that we are muslims first and then somalis, and any muslim is my brother or sister regardles of heritage but at the same time we all need an identity and to take pride in who we are. y2laila@arabia.com just a note to any girls that may visit the discussion, leave your ideas behind,
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| | Wednesday, February 28, 2001 - 06:14 am ONLY ISHAAQ'S CAN'T BE A NATION.THEIRE POPULATAON'S NOT UP TO 5,000.MOSTLY GAYS AND THE GREATEST SHARMUTO'S AVAR SEEN ON THE EARTH.
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| | Wednesday, February 28, 2001 - 08:32 am Libaax get out the discussion if you have nothing to say, imagine if someone says that about your family. Somaliland supporters, Mr and the Liala There is nothing wrong with having a regional autonomy, or being "Somaliland" however there must be something else beyond that, like PlAN. Cigal is local bitch who knows only how to get rich, beyond that, he is blind old man. He will lead Reer Wuqooyi, one of the most intelligent people in Somalia, into circle of poverty and anemy's exploitation. To avoid that Reer Wuqooyi must adopt to the realities that are unfolding in Somalia every where. There must be a fresh, modern,and dynamic leaders who see things beyond succession.
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| | Wednesday, February 28, 2001 - 10:39 am Waw. where should i start. yes there are alot of northerns who were born in the south and many of them still like the idea of big somali, but u know what , they can not even go to the place they were born right now, they can not claim thier biuldings in Xamar. even most the people who are from the south can not go to Xamar. I believe onething if u can manage your village then u can look farther to the region. Somaliland and thier government managed to creat peace in the north, even though i would not say Cigaal is the better leader than the other wareloads, the people in the north made the progress. And i tell u Cigaale is not against the big somali you mentioned, it is the people on somaliland that would not let him to do that at this time, because thier is no big somali at the moment. what would u tell them to unit with, you just want them to join the killing and war that is going on in the south. when the south get thier act together and live in peace and stop killing each other then let us talk about big somali. we have see to beleive it. foreheaven sake take control of this warloads, they just killing innocent somalis and destroying the country. sorry for the essay, but instead of being angry with the somalilanders, first do something in your back yard.
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| | Wednesday, February 28, 2001 - 01:58 pm Who cares anywayz... No one will recognize them as long as they are using Somali......... I guess they should call them self Khaldanland instead of somaliland.... peace and one to all Somalis
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| | Wednesday, February 28, 2001 - 04:04 pm Hi Laila ..the beautiful One Somali is in my heart I can't help...regardless our troubles the Somali community preserved its basic unity because of the relative homogeneity of the society sharing One religion ,common language and cultural etc..and the reason it didn't last long first time may be as [Mr] siad there were no ratification for the unity ..this time we will make sure evrything fits our common goals and destiny...and for the civil war no body intended to happen this way ..Amaru Alah.... I wish it never happen..but its real..and the tribal issue you hit the target I don't have an answer its the most evil practice in Somalia ..may be we should appoint a committee that study and educate Somali community what is it mean.......Yes we need more time to heal I agree with you ..but I am only doing observation the young generation how they feel .thank YOU
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| | Wednesday, February 28, 2001 - 05:10 pm Usually i hate to participate in such discussions but it seems that most of the people here accept Anti- KHladan are making good and clean discussion. Back to the subject, to reunite the whole Somalia we need a peace first in whole country. Somaliland and majority of northern part of the country are kind of peaceful and doing just fine and i don't believe they gona reunite in the near future due to the lack of proper government in the south. I had a big hope for the new government in the south but it seems that it will take a long time as warlords are in stronger Positions. Also, the people from the North need more time to forget one of the worst civil war in Africa though every body suffered from it equally but don't forget they were the target in the beginning. I agree Cigaal is not the proper leader to Somaliland now ,however, the reunification of Somalia is in the hands of the people of Somalia no one can stop them if they want to, as happened before. peace
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| | Wednesday, February 28, 2001 - 08:26 pm Ali Gheedi Do you mean? " Will Isaqq reunite the rest of Somalia" The only people who want to devide Somalia that I know Walaahi are Isaaqqs So why not ask for all of us this sincere quastion then we can proceed from there? Peace
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| | Thursday, March 01, 2001 - 02:53 am Guys, we are well of without that region, ley them stay away from us.
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| | Thursday, March 01, 2001 - 03:41 am salaan: WHAT IS SOMALILAND?. I THOUGHT IT IS SYNOMEOUS WITH SOMALI PROPER. N NOW HERE IS AN INTRESTING QUESTION: IF THOSE WHO BELEIVE IN THE WORDS OF THOSE WARLORDS IN THE NORTH CALL THEIR ARTIFICIAL COUNTRY SOMALILAND, AND THOSE IN THE CENTRAL PART OF SOMALI (SEMI ARID AREA LED BY A BOGUS AND AGING WARLORD AS PUNTLAND.. AND THOSE IN THE FERTILE SOUTHERN TIP, WHO ARE HARRASSED INTO FOLLOWING AN INSANE GENERAL WHOSE NAME IS THE SAME AS A WHISKY DRINK CALLS THEIR JUBALAND.... WHAT CAN I CALL MY AREA: I AM A SOMALI WHO LOVES SOMALIA AND DON'T IDENTIFY WITH THOSE "LANDS". I AM NOT FROM SOUTHERN OR RIVERINE AREA OF SOMALIA AS SOME OF YOU MIGHT THINK BUT I SENCE THAT SOME OF YOU ARE TRYING TO USE THE QABIIL CARD WHICH HAS MADE US STATELESS, AND WITHOUT IDENTITY. NOW HERE IS A CHALLENGING TASK FOR YOU LANDERS: GO TO YOUR RESPECTIVE AREAS AND HELP REBUILD THEM INSTEAD OF LIVING AND HAVING THE COMFORT OF THE WESTERN WORLD. FOR THOSE SO-CALLED SOMALIS STOP ASKING QUESTIONS ABOUT LANDER BECAUSE YOU ARE GIVING A CREDIT TO PPL WHO DO NOT DESERVE. I HAVE FOUND AN ACRYNOM FOR SOMALIS WHO HATE THE NOTION OF LANDERS: CIIL-landers
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| | Thursday, March 01, 2001 - 08:34 am Like the saying goes,, Empty trash Cans make the most Noise ! I hear a lot of Noise and No substance at all. The claim that Somaliland wants to break up from Somalia is ludicruos, There is NOTHING TO BREAK UP. Somalia is DEAD. Now I know you better not be asking what or who killed it. SO stop whinning and go and make something out of your Mess. Let those who want to reclaim their lives, their liberty, and Most of all their Humanity do what they please. After all they have the Right to self determination that is a basic human Right. If Djibouti, a Village of 500,000 people can call itself a country then Puntland, Somaliland, and any other Region might as well go ahead and move on. Cant just wait for those Morons in Mogadishu to come to their Senses (if they have any). Life Goes On.
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| | Thursday, March 01, 2001 - 10:03 am I strongly agree with Reality Dose... I don't think I would personally want to dwell...in the western world..for the rest of my life...waiting for senseless folks...to put some use to that emptied shells! Let Somaliland....puntland...rahaweynland..whatever more lands....create their own world....n make some kind of peace! A place...where we can flourish.....build futures...raise kids...n have for once a place we call...HOME. I am sick & tired of being homeless.
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| | Thursday, March 01, 2001 - 10:05 am Ali Ghedi, where are you man? Did you get my email? Any way do contact me through mahdi in your last topic. We are starting something big. Talk to you soon
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| | Thursday, March 01, 2001 - 11:39 am All we need is Habar Ghidir and Abgaal re-unite then all the break- ups and fiefdoms will stop. now it seems what we need is peace and peace must start with Mogadishu and the powerful tribes. I would like to see Hawiye rushing the reconciliation peace process. it seems they don't even care to see peaceful Somalia no more. Open up the harbor and the airport. let others come back to mogadishu and everything else will come to normal. the epicenter of Somalia is there and the people who run the business in there need to hurry up and wake up from the long sleep. Business is booming and you are making progress. in your midst there are ambitious thugs and warlords who don't wanna see any rule and normality. Somaliland is nothing so is Puntland and don't even mention Jubbaland. all somalia needs is these two tribes to come to their senses and start doing some constructive dialogue. forget what happened and take the leadership.
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| | Thursday, March 01, 2001 - 12:25 pm As I read some of you are riding a high horses and need to come down a pit. I haven't seen anybody recongize so called Somaliland so far, and basicaly if it didn't happen in 10yrs it won't happen now. Take care.
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| | Thursday, March 01, 2001 - 12:32 pm Long Live SomaliLand!
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| | Thursday, March 01, 2001 - 06:17 pm look, i think somaliland should be allowed to separate. i mean y should we bring them down, just coz we cant solve our problems. u know although i was born and raised in xamar, but because my family lives in boorame, i have the chance to go to holidays to somaliland, which is like somalia, just different name. at least i can look forward to going back to my fellow muslim ppl and finally go home. as long as we have peace anywhere, i dont care how we get it, as long as we have it.
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| | Thursday, March 01, 2001 - 06:54 pm let's recognize somaliland, then awdalland, then sanaag land. let's recognize puntland, then bayland, any one who wanna break up, break up. just leave and don't come back. we don't need Qat chewing Qaldaan, we don't need always begging eelaay and we don't need cantenkerous majeerteens? what is there in Bosaaso anyways? don't sweat people..the proper somalia still is there and will always be. bayland will be landlocked. no there won't be no JUBBA LAND. kismaayo to merka to buulxaawo and baardheere to xamar and baledweeyne to dhuuso-mareeb to hobyo and all between is more enough than us. we got all we need. the rest were just parasites and trouble makers. let's all let them go. F dem.
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| | Thursday, March 01, 2001 - 07:09 pm NOt only Somaliland.....Basra dear....any region of Somalia.....that has some kind of government...functioning......Hail...to them all...!!
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| | Friday, March 02, 2001 - 09:54 am I am a southerner and believe somalilanders should break away as long the southerners are brewing up trouble.
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| | Friday, March 02, 2001 - 10:25 am There is no doubt in the realization of a new Somalia, a united Somalia:the question is how long will it take. When all is done and said, I do not see Somaliland in any other way than as a de facto state. I'm sure this has been said countless times,but let us stop the tribalism, nepotism and favouritism, which I think is a faux pas in any civilized society. peace.
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| | Friday, March 02, 2001 - 01:03 pm mo man you are an insightfull man. it's absolutly necessary to look things beyond the tribal system. i myself am not advocating for a grand idealogy that will bring peacce and mutual trust, but i believe the idea of "one nation, indivisible , under God." i acknowledge of the injustices that the northerners suffered , and all somali people suffered in the past twenty years. but three is no way that those events would justify the breakup of a nation. it seems to me we are the wilder beast bulls fighting, over the right to rule the herd , while the lion(ethiopians) is stalking them.
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| | Friday, March 02, 2001 - 01:26 pm -----------0--------------------------- ----------0-0---------------------- ---------0---0----------------------- --------0-----0-------------------- -------0-------0-------------------- 0000000---------000000000--------------- -0--------------------0--------------- --0------------------0---------------- ---0----------------0----------------- ----0--------------0---------------- ---0-------0--------0---------------- --0-----0-----0------0--------------- -0---0-----------0----0------------- 0-0-----------------0--0-------------- 0-----------------------0------------- I believe all people of the same language, same culture, same religion, same color, same name, under one flag, one country. I love all my brothers and sisters living in all the "LANDS", Ethiopia, Kenya. May Allah bless the somali race, may he give us peace and brotherhood,(oh sisterhood too) may he cause all the warlord to die of the worse cancer ever seen on the earth. AMIIINNNNNNN
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| | Friday, March 02, 2001 - 02:44 pm Isthakfurullah bro... Majority of the postings are so fasinating to read, my god i have not encountered a single posting that produced the type of verbal art that is displayed here. Only conclusion one can reach is that malis are all either political animals or politics is a mental aphrodiziac. I was born in the south but am lander! Everyone is forgetting there are people among us that have no status in somali/land, they have no voice, they have not power. You all know who. Somalilanders should be left alone to develop themself and improve the standard of living of thier people. I would not for a second hessitate to inform you of the simple fact with or without recognision they are free from southern abuse. I do believe if there is ever any unity it will be one that is achieved through mutual need to strenghten the region's economy and currency. United does not mean a single president or government. Individual governments that will insure the succes of their own back yards accompanied by clearly defined partnership among all divisions would be most appropraite. Before unity each fraction must see to the needs of their own people and clean their own homes before each can bring something of interest to the unified round table of somaal... Any enforced unity will lead to war hence death and i am against murder for any reason. I am not into politics but if i can see the simple solution to this question why can't you all see it? are you too busy making pretty speech to realise the content and political flirtations you are making. Take the Euro as an example. Unite if their is reason to otherwise each to his own interests. Yo dem that are calling names, you just plain ignorant and i hope you don't pass any of that to your siblings or next.gen. i doubt your own people would want to have anything to do with you cos you so full of hate... go an burst that hate bubble inside you like you squeeze all those spots you got on you face! evening ladies and gents
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| | Friday, March 02, 2001 - 08:14 pm To.Aligedi, I Think your Question was dishonest or maybe naive to somali issues There is no such Thing called Somaliland but North of Somalia especially few cities like Berbere, Buroa, Hargeisa that is eager to destroy the unity of our country just because they don't like The rest of us, you should ask your self These Question before you posted? 1)Where is S-called Somaliland? 2)Where is the Border? 3)what is so-called-Somaliland stands for? 4)Do you Think Tribe can be a nation? 5)Can Three Cities be a Country? 6)Don't you Think it's naive to make an Assumption That you made nonexistence Government to argue , here in Somalinet? If you are Still having Trouble figuring out The Secessionist Idea here are a few Clues. Their Aim is to destabilize The rest of Somalia so They can generate sympathy from other countries To get Hand out. Egal will go so Low even to deal with a scum bags like Osman Ato to carry his bad deed even to Murder an innocent people to Achieve his goal. Just to create conflict the rest of Somalia so he can survive, stable and prosper Somalia is a threat to so called Somaliland. Who Killed General Talan? Egal Orchestrated the murder but Gangs from Ato carry the crime, If Egal thinks he is President from Another country why is meddling other nation their affairs? His Aim was to scare Northern citizen to travel Mogadishu, and label those who reside Mogadishu as a savage who don't respect human life. plus To score few points from UN and other countries to boost his ego that he created a stable cities, which is my opinion nothing but a lie Those who want Independent homeland within Somalia, They don't have a right to secede anything because a Government existed Already and majority rules in a Democratic system, those who preach the secessionist had they left the country because Somalia is not ready to disunite, Rational people if they dissatisfy the government they can buy a land and create their own state call it Ice-man's land ,Ali land zaenaland. Cavemanland, whatever, Most of you will disagree but we are ruling you join us or If you can beat us try it, I know for fact you can't build a nation base on tribe but the good things some of his people are wise and patriotic so they won't follow hid unattainable dream Later
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| | Friday, March 02, 2001 - 08:51 pm June 1980 Foreign Minister: (Narration) We just had very contested war with DRS (Democratic Republic of Somalia), they the somalis over run the Natural gas rich territory of South west Ethiopia (Ogaden). We were saved by luck, the Russians and the reluctance of the West to help Somalia. President: Will Somalia ever give up it's claim to unite it's people and take back her territory?, Minister: We the Ethiopian government do not believe so. President: So what should our policy toward Somalia be? Minister: Well Mr. president our inteligency office informs us, Somalia is arming the Tigrey, the OROMO, the Ogaden, and the Eritreans. President: You mean the Somali republic is helping all those that want to break Ethiopia apart. Minister: That is correct Mr. President. Presdient: Find me a group in somalia that want to seperate and let us back them up. Minister: Sir, the norther part of Somalia, specifically the Issac clan is unhappy with the Union of the republic. President: Why are they unhappy about? Minister: Well sir, as you know they have been under the British, they have the civil code, they speak English and they feel, in the union they have been short changed. President: Do they hate Mogadishu or are they just unhappy with the circumstances? Minister: At the moment they are just unhappy. President: The Issac somalis, do they have a leader? Minister: Yes sir, he is currently in prison near Mogadishu. President: Why? Minister: Siad Barre is afraid, Egal the northen leader might challenge his rule. Presiden: I see, now what we need is to arm this clan, to provide them with a party and make them fight Mogadishu. Minister: (Narration) So the SNM was born, it challeged SIAD, and in response like a mad child, he caused the death and turture of million of ISAACs. Burned the Second largest city of Somalia to the ground. The hatred and split created between the Somalis can never be solved now. LONG LIVE THE SUPER POWER OF EAST AFRICA-----------ETHIOPIA.... Hope you like this fictional but educational dialogue... I have love for all clans of somalia non are intended to be offended, lets work togheter not against each other.
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| | Friday, March 02, 2001 - 09:17 pm when ever i hear the question, "somaliland is too small by its self," i say to myself how come Djibouti is independent? if Somaliland is amalgated to Somalia once again, is it not just as well tht Djibouti is too? they are Somalis are they not?
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| | Friday, March 02, 2001 - 11:02 pm Hi there Mr Ice Man -my question was not dishonest nor naive there are facts and fictions and this is facts I didn't create the name somaliland ,and that is what the majority northern Somali people want to call..and my question was aimed to the youg generation of all northern Somaliland if they share or feel this sentiment of secession .but if you look in puntland the atmosphere is totally different you don't hear separation of Somalia .. the second point yes it very true these warlords and fascists they will do anything to hold their seats ... Mr Mdgn ..the question was just observation for the youg generation of northern Somalia if they share the separatist idea of Egal regime ..yes there were huge massacre and air raid they suffered under former dictator ,but the whole Somali republic suffered too and disintegrate ..and my point is the younger generation must look beyond secession .. the progress and peace they enjoying we have to be all of us very proud.they are way civilze than the rest of what use to be republic of Somalia .
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| | Saturday, March 03, 2001 - 12:57 am Every should have a jurisdiction in their araes a centralist goverment is no good...the best option will be a federalism goverment...having stronger federal and state goverment with limited powers.
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| | Saturday, March 03, 2001 - 01:45 am INSTEAD OF TALKING ABOUT SOMALILAND UNITING WITH SOMALIA LET US TALK ABOUT WILL CANADA UNITE WITH USA COS THIS IS EASIER THEN SOMALILAND UNITING WITH SOMALIA. I AM NOT SOMALILAND BUT I RESPECT THEIR DESIRE TO GOEVRN THEMSELF AND I BELEIVE EVRY1 WHO DOES NOT RESPECT THE WILL OF SOMALILAND PPLE IS SIMPLY IGNORANT AND ARROGANT WHO DOES NOT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT HUMANITY
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| | Saturday, March 03, 2001 - 07:05 am I am From Sanag. I don't belive in Idorland. I shall paste an article I have seen on the www.somaliwatch.org couple weeks ago writen by a chap named Shirwac Maxamed jaamac from london: You can find the original article on that website: The beguile column of that Mr Yuule- Shirwa M Jama It intensely fascinates to say the least that Mt Yuule will expect us to believe the process that had been the result of Northwest administration "Somaliland" had the same validity as to that of Puntland. No offence; but it thoroughly discontents me great deal that Mr Yuule will take his precious time to write something that is classically futile. An argument that has no base entirely. "To distort the realities in Somaliland and how its sovereignty was reclaimed in order to refute the professor's myopic view of Puntland or the "balaayo-lands," as he often refers to them, raises a question of motive." If you read my column scrupulously Mr Yuule you would not see anything that indicates the deformation of the reality of "Somaliland" on the contrary it highlights the reality. What puzzles me is the fact that Mr Yuule is so courageous that he uses the word sovereignty at ease! I suspect that the honourable gentleman from Boston is artless as to the connotation of the word. "To learn the realities on the ground, all Mr. Shirwa has to do is visit Awdal and see it for himself. On the historical error asserted in his message, I would like to point out that the people of Awdal were instrumental in the Burco conference of 1991 at which all clans and subclans of Somaliland were signatories to the re-declaration of independence". In this he demonstrates that he is unlearned to the fact that there are certain things which are quite wide spread that you do not need to reason or rationalise it. I have to admit the fact that I have not visited Awdal that is beside the point. " your argument strikes me as the one of that Professor Samatar when trying to degrade the notable Professor Ion Lewis" However. Needless to say I know great deal about Awdal in contrast to my own region. We are aware of what SNM did to people of Awdal right after when the Former dictator was ousted from Mogadishu. I have heard numerous horror experiences that have been endured by the people of Awdal. Wasn't the SNM, spearheading an entire division of Mengistu's troops, slaughtered five hundred fifty innocent people in Borama, Dila and Zeila on February 4th, 1991. And when the SNM had occupied, with the "philanthropic" assistance of these troops and had inherited the ammunition dumps in the north west of Somalia, the first step they took was a deliberate clan-cleansing agaist the people of Awdal from their homes in Gebiley, Hargeisa, Arabsiyo. To humiliate further the people of Awdal, didn't they hijack their elders and took them first to Harar (Ethiopia) in April 1991 and later to Burao where they were intimidated to sign a "obligatory declaration of independence" that has been prepared directly by "Mengistu Haila Miriam". Two ex-Ethiopian generals, violating directly the sovereignty of the Somali State, were directing that so-called conference at Burao. Thus, by carrying out these odious deeds that are contrary to whatever values or culture we shared as Somalis since the last millennium, the SNM dealt a mortal blow to any bonds of brotherhood and sisterhood we shared. "It is worth taking the time to find out the facts and to separate signatories to a process of reconciliation from how the Egal administration governs, even if Mr. Shirwa's assertion was valid" You fail to comprehend my points. As Sanagian Myself, I do not recognise the legitimacy of the formation of the administration that you are advocating for. As the great Usuuli Principle says "Maa Buniya fasaadun Fahuwa faasid" "Whatever is built upon iniquitous is absolutely iniquitous" hence; it does not make any difference as to whether Hargeisa Administration is unjust or impartial. Fact that remains is "Somaliland" was built upon intimidation and against the will of those reside the region. Shall I just ask my honourable fellow, who shall he considers as the inhabitants of Somaliland, and where are the differentiating border between the Hargeisa and Gorowe Administration?, Does he think that Dolbahante and Warsengeli are Puntlanders or otherwise? "And I don't think he is a freedom fighter that Mr. Shirwa painted him to be". This is one of your many erroneous claims, where have I painted him to be a freedom fighter? I do not deny the fact that he feels for his fellow people in Awdal and the appallingly frightful time they have endured since 1991 and every just human being should feel sympathetic towards these poor people. "Professor Samater would be jubilant if Borama was administered from Mogadishu". Isn't that his personal and people of awdal's choice? Or you are disremembering the fact he lives in America not the So-called Somaliland where the Ega'ls cohorts can intimidate everyone who does not subscribe to their ideology? I shall conclude, I am ecstatic to witness as Somalis exchanging ideas without being formidable to one another. It is achievement, but let not retire, the road before us eminently long. Shirwa M Jama University Collage London England Shirwa@lawyer.com
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| | Saturday, March 03, 2001 - 07:15 am Sorry the addres is as fellows: http://www.somaliawatch.org/column.htm Thanks.
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| | Saturday, March 03, 2001 - 01:12 pm darod hooyadaa was waxaad tihiin wasq qurun badan oo xaaraan ah somaliyan intaad degentihiin qeyr ma soo socdo. somaliyee darood ha la yo kill daroooood kill daroooooood kill darooooooood
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| | Saturday, March 03, 2001 - 03:03 pm Will Somaliland reunite with the rest of Somalia? Naturally the answer is..why will they? If we're calling Somaliland into the re-union for the sake of geographical expansion rather than the love and respect for its people, then this is an absurd idea! I have seen many people debating on the future of Somalia by stressing the need to unite all Somali regions, while at the same time not offering any political agenda to attract the Somalis living in these regions. Therefore, in my opinion Somalis are more concerned about geographical expansion more than the people living in these regions. A brief historical reminder; Somaliland was a separate state recognized by the UN when it joined into union with the south, and the end result of that union was an unjust treatment for the Somalilanders both in political and economical sense. Therefore, today if they claim back their sovereignty, it shouldn't be a surprise to anybody, since this is the only natural outcome from a failed experience. However, the politically naive would try to retort that everybody suffered from the military dictatorship and the aftermath, but then the rhetoric is, that's exactly why they should reconsider the union agenda. In retrospect, Somalis under the old colonial governship model by trying to adopt one state under one God couldn't be achieved, because of clan affiliation and disregard of basic human rights. In that case, not only Somaliland but the rest of landers should be a final solution for the Somali problem, as we've tried to unite all Somalis under one banner, we only created further animosity and hatred, by disregarding the basic concept of unification with dignity, as the main focus was on more land under one fake flag, and more geographical expansion with pride, and more humiliation for the people. While disregarding one of the main pillars of the STATE, people..people..people. In political science, the definition of a state contains three factors; geographic location, government, and people. Therefore, focusing on two factors such as; geographic location and government never yielded any human progress. A great example is; the making of united Europe,after disastarous wars to unite Europe under the Romans, Wilhelm Kaiser, Napolean Bonaparte, and recently by Hitler have acknowledged that unification is necessary not in a forcefull manner but in a gradual mutual acceptance. This is where all Somalis should take a great example rather than dwelling on a fictitious past and a rosy uncertain future. Somalis have tried to be one state, and by the failure of that experience, now is the time to re-evaluate the other alternatives. First alternative being separate entities of political sovereignty and integrated economies if needed, since sovereignty is the key word, any state not willing to integrate its economy has its own choice. My priori-rhetoric being, that Somalis don't recognize where they are at default, as the tribal differences are of comparable magnitude as any nationalistic, and religious differences that generate wars in other regions of the world, so Somalis should live in peacefully within their small geo-entities, and consequently when they are of enough political and economical maturity establish something along the lines of United Somali States, otherwise while trying to gain regional expansion ambitions, they will lose the Somali factor in all its meaningness.
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| | Sunday, March 04, 2001 - 06:58 am Assalamu Aliakum, Saggitarius, Well said! Durgal, I agree. Pres. Egal is nothing but a political dinasour. I believe he will soon become extinct, some time in 2002. Ali-Ghedi, this whole discussion will be SOLVED once and FOR all in SIX MONTHS time when the referendum takes place. I hope the outcome will satisfy your question. Wassalam Wabilaahi Towfiiq
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| | Sunday, March 04, 2001 - 10:55 am Darood people should thank ALLAH for somalilands creation, if the SNM would have taken part in the civil war on the side of USC there would be no Darood left at all!
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| | Sunday, March 04, 2001 - 02:23 pm truth, maybe that was better, it could forced daaroods to participate the civil war better than they did and still do. you know what European did other countries and other people who did not resist? Do you that Ghana has mosquito reward? well mosquito was the last soldier who defended Africa otherwise European could gonized the Africans and settled in Africa. did SNM took part for the independent war? well the British never showed respect the isaaqs. By the way do you know that jigjiga was part of British somaliland. isaaq never claim any land from Ethiopia. Three year before British left the north Somalia the British handed howd to Ethiopia which dominated by Isaaq. Isaaq should be thankful what they have today and should not disregard the people who died the freedom and unity of Somalia, even time when the colony offered independent and money the darwiishs. isaaq should claim first the part of British somaliland which Ethiopia occupied than we can talk about other things.
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| | Sunday, March 04, 2001 - 03:39 pm oh no , Truth if that happened god forbid ,then i wouldn't be here tonight to write this message!!!!!!!!. bro sagittarius, i have a question for you. what is somaliland proper bro? somaliland proper as was drawn it's map by the british empire includes sanaag, sool,and awdal. the people of these provinces vehemently oppose to any succesion of the land. furthermore ,gadhxajis- a subclan of isaaq opposes to the annexation. a legitimate question would be then where do we draw the border. do we then consider hargeisa,berbera and some of burco somaliland. another point is that there can not be a comparison between somaliland ,and DJibouti, because both tribes , the cissa and the caffar agreed to become independent state. it would be naive to think that there was a consensus among the people of somaliland to leave the union. i gree with you that we need to have a federalist system to avoid the mistakes of the past in the future. peace n love
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| | Sunday, March 04, 2001 - 03:44 pm I'm probably the dumpest person to talk about polotics.......i hate it and i dont understand it.....but i know the answer to ur question...Can Somaliland reunite the rest of Somalia? My answer would be NO........cuz the only way -i think- Somalia can be reunited is if they go back to Islam and rule by it.....live by it and follow its orders.........which will automatically take away all the tribalism........if that is not done....i dont think somalia will be reunited.... The other thing that might work out is if we get a dictator.....a strong dude with a strong army that MAKES everyone live by the rules.....!!lol adios
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| | Sunday, March 04, 2001 - 07:48 pm Mr Sheikh, I am not well versed in Somali political intricacies as you obviously are, but generally speaking my arguments were based on more broader facts than on limited clan agenda. However, Somalilanders and others given the chance and opportunity to realize a separate state, I believe they would have succeeded doing so, but I strongly believe there's constant interfrences from various groups that still adhere to the old grandiose dream of one Somalia. Therefore, shouldn't also these various groups focus on establishing a separate state of their own as is the case in Puntland now! Moreover, I am quite fascinated on how we always dream of greater projects such as the unification of all Somalis, while basicaly there's distrust and antagonism in the Somali social fabric. Hence, if your argument is based on how small geographical entity should claim sovereignty, then you obviously authenticate my basic argument on how Somalis are more obsessed with geographic expansion more than anything else! A great example for your query is, Liechtenstein, and Luxembourg which are tiny states in the heart of Europe ruled by single families, and apparently very stable and well recognized in their European standing. Therefore, how can one claim that smaller countries are ineffective by nature! Maybe you subscribe to the notion that claims "The bigger the better" Which obviously lacks many instrumental elements so as to be construed as a viable theory! Before anything gets bigger, logically it has to undergo many expriments, contrary to the Somali experiences which are very few and of limited quality. Somalia underwent three experiences. Firstly, separate tribes living in disparate lands without direct communication, and second experience was under colonialism, the third and most notably the most disastarous experience was independence and further struggle for the unification of all Somalis. The reason I call it the most disastarous is, priorities were misplaced and futher tribal animosities resurected, thus it only inhereted us the current abyss we are in. Hence, isn't it the only remedy for Somalia today afer all these awfull experieces, to disentegrate into separate smaller states along the same experiences of Taiwan, Hong-Kong, Singapore, and Liechtenstein! Or obviously we prefer bulky states with inherent social decay realized by forcefull compulsary integration!
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| | Sunday, March 04, 2001 - 11:43 pm honestita when u say dictator with strong army did n't u know that siyad bare was the most brutal dictator of all time and his army was the strongest in africa. but somaliland freedom fighters fought with 100.000 army with 20 war planes and 9 warships and they won it. so the only way somaliland and djibouti can unite with somalia is to find lasting justice for all
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| | Monday, March 05, 2001 - 06:34 am Kingmaker....lol......i told u i know NOTHING about polotics...wars...armies....or what ever....i was just kiddin' when i said that brotha...... anyway HAPPY EID EVERYONE...... adios
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| | Monday, March 05, 2001 - 07:19 am NEVER! go to "http://www.somalilandgov.com" and you will see why.
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| | Monday, March 05, 2001 - 09:31 am JILOOW JILOOW...ARBACA ADUUN HALAG MUSMAAR... AA-IISHO: "SOMALI ? WHAT? LAND? LAAN? LIKE S.I.I.L? DAMN THERE WHERE IS THE SOMALI G.U.S??" AW-OSMAN " UNUKA WAAYE ...THAT IS US....WE ARE THE SOMALI G.U.S.. WE KICK ASS AND WE DAMN GOOD AT IT..." AA-IISHO " OK THEN WHO IS SOMALI ASS? LIKE FUTO, DABO?" AW-OSMAN " THAT IS BAYDHABA...BAY MEANING REER BAAY ..ALL THE EELAAYS AND SO CALLED RRA..DHABA MEANS.... BEAT THEIR ASSES..WHIP THEM ALL...." AA-ISHO " OK I GOT THAT SO WHERE IS THE SOMALI WHAT/ WHAT SHOULD I SAY? NAAS? BREAST? " AW-OSMAN " IISHO, YOU NEVER STOP AMAZING ME..THAT IS PUNT LIKE BUDEEY LAND THEY ARE BOTH THE BREAST AND THE PUSSY...." AA-IISHO " SO WHAT IS THERE? THE LAANDHEERAYAASHII WAA KUWAAS ISKA SHUBEE YAA HARAY? GUSOOW????" AW-OSMAN " THE SEAS, THE AIR, THE SKIES AND ABOVE ALL THE G.U.S..US...G...GREAT US.....MY VERY EDUCATED MOTHER TAUGHT US ABOUT THE NINE PLANETS...THEN ABOUT THEN SAGAALKA ABGAAL....SHANTA SOOMALIYEED....HIRAAB IYO HERIDIID....KARINLE IYO SIIXAWLE...." AA-IISHO " WAA KOOW II WAD BO " AW-OSMAN " HABARTAABA HA HEEYSEE AMA HA GIDIREEYSEE HEEYBISEEY KAA RABTAA ..ILAAHEEY MA KUU GARGAARAA MISE GANFUUR GANFUUR AAS KUU TURRA ..IBTILO WAXAAS DHACDAY NAMARKII DADKII SODON SANO LAGU SOO GUURAAYAY RAACDEEYSTEEN DAAROODKII JINNIGA AHAA ..MAXAA DHADAA..SAR MA LEH..FIILO MA KU TAQAAN....XABAD IYO MADFAC LEE LA ISKU DHOWAY....YAAQAYOOW MAXAA QALDAY DADKAAN...." AA_ISHO " ANI MAXAAN U MUDAA MANIFESTO, GENTLEMAN, ALI MAHDI, BOOD, CAYDIID, DARMAAN, GUURGUURTO IYO INTII ODAY HAWIYE OO SIXRINAA AA TALA SEEGTAY " AW-OSMAN " IYAA AASY IISHO ADAABA SHEEKO HAAYO..WAA SOO WEEYSEEYSHAA EE SARIIRTA ISKA SII XAADIRI...." AA-IISHO " AAW G.U.S LEE MA LAGU DHAHAY " SOMALI G.U.S WAS THEN BORN LIKE THAT AT THE MOMENT........ DECODE IF YOU COULD............
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| | Monday, March 05, 2001 - 11:47 am bro saggi, the seperation is a limited clan agenda itself. iam not denying what had happened to the people of the northern somalia at all,if a clan wants to seperate from the union ,then so be it,but was there a consensus among the people of the region to be a seperate entity at the time when th colonial powers were deviding the country. also was there a consensus after the collapse of the somali government among the people of the "somaliland" which as i mentioned include sanaag sool ,and awdal. the answer is NO. what did you mean when you said that "they would have succeeded if given the chance"? is it just the clans that want to seperate or the whole people of somaliland ? to understand the problems of somalia ,one has to undestand the clan politics. i believe none of this seperation nonsensne will happen, but this will give a bargaining weight to the isaaqs in a federal system in the future.
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| | Monday, March 05, 2001 - 12:29 pm A good debate.......... I'm from northern Somalia(Somaliland),I lost my dear father in the 1977 war with Ethiopia,My mom's death was caused by siyaad barre's bombing campaign against the people of the north,to be more accurate and specific'the isaaq tribe" Am an orphan.....Why! My father died defending his so-called country Somalia and died,like many other isaaq's who fought bravely in that bloody war,And how did siyaad barre and the Somali nation thanked them!? We all know of their fate,most of them got killed in a no man's war,the rest were dealt with by the army's[non isaaq unit's]...... In 1988 a war plane carrying the Somali flag bombed Burco[of course a predominately isaaq town] and killed children,women,old and young men............Why?! Because they were isaaq,that was their crime. Conflict's and misunderstanding's accure between people,clan's and nation's but to discriminate against your own countrymen is something else. Ice-Man A typical southerner,have very little knowledge of what went wrong in the northern part of the country back in the 1980's and the 1990's. I believe in 1 Somalia but as long the folk's from the south are not willing to change their mentality,be sympathetic toward's those who lost their loved ones,Try to put yourself in my shoe and ask yourself"why should I? Sensitivity help's.
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| | Monday, March 05, 2001 - 05:54 pm Hello there most of you who participate in this debate have stated very logic and reality out there in northern Somalia or Somaliland ..seems like we all agree onething the tranquility and prosperity of all Somaliland must continue and stay on course . but the question I sensed is if all south Somalia some how manage and control its troubles and bring some unity...the northern Somalia or Somaliland the opinion of reunion seems strongly divided some groups believe no return on the wheel...their claim enough experience first unification how the South Gov'mnt treated the North Somalia ?..yes you right ..the first Gov'mnt for the prime minister seat mistake happen then..and the former dictator gov'mnt it was nightmare roller coaster to the whole Somali nation...have mercy..it taught all of us unforgettable lessons .never again big gov'mnt dictate our life...never again to put all our eggs in one basket..'''the second groups believe let the south come clean and put its act together than we can sit and debate very carefully our common goals and destiny with local power gov'mnt.......' the third groups believe yes we don't want the troubles of the south to come our neighbors but we are not breaking away One community of the northern Somalia wants and we don't share the separatism Ideology .........peace Somaliland... thank you all.
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| | Monday, March 05, 2001 - 08:02 pm Soomaal I hear you bro, and I am appologising to you not as a southener, but as Somali brother. You are right many southener's do not know what happened in the North. Why because, while Siaad was ordering the execution, murder and Mosque bombing, in the North, he was showing a calm picture in the (Mogadishu) , nobody knew half of the country was on fire. Now in 1977 I lived in Berbera, in the military airbase, I was only a child, but I am lucky to be alive, everyday, the Ethiopian jets bombed Hargeysa and Berbera because of Somalia, our forces on the ground got us a victory, how did it all ended, 200,000 young somalis of all clans walking home in disgrace while being shot in the back by the Ethiopians. All you have to do is go to Hospital Martinii and you will see the men and women that served our nation, bleeding in their beds 24 years after the war. In 1988, I remeber visiting the mogadishu airbase and during my visit there was a C34 returning from the north carrying somali boys that looked like if death was better than living without eyes, ears and limbs. Can you imagine if the soldiers looked like that, how would the woman and children look like. So in short I have seen what "SOMALIS" are capable of, let Allah if you still believe in him punish those that did this to our brothers and sisters. Let work together rather than hate and put ourselve down, we are not British Somaliland, French somaliland, Italian somaliland, NFD and The Ethiopian colony of Somalia. We are somalis. You know what a somali delegate from JBouti said in 1958 African countries conference "Can one break a human hearth into five parts and expect it to live?" May allah bring love and peace to somalia, for he knows how much we deserve it..
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| | Tuesday, March 06, 2001 - 05:53 am soomaal lot of us have lost someone we love, i pray for you u and your family and i hope everyone of us appreciate the peace wether in the south or the north. the rest thank u for the healthy disscussion specially the Ali Ghedi who started the topic, Sagi and SIRRUS for their meaningful thoughts and happy Eid to u all.
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| | Tuesday, March 06, 2001 - 07:38 am To. Soomaal, Always when someone lost his/her family is painful and rest of us should be kind to Them so They can grieve Their Death . having said That when a person disagrees with you, it doesn't mean I belong to certain regions. as you label me "A Typical Southern who have a little knowledge what we went through" I will inform you I am a Northern. who doesn't agree The secessionist Ideology base on Tribe promotion, Your father was a hero who gave his life The Unity of country to regain and free our Somalian brothers who are under colony and we should never forget That, so as many Somalis who fought and die during that war, I am Sure our former soldiers if they hear some political schemers like Igaal and Abdulahi yusuf and others in Mogadishu are Helping our number enemy Ethiopia to achieve her goal base on region by region, If its possible they will rise their grave to defend The Nation. But what I reject is, The Notion that some Tribes will use the victim card, like they the only once that suffered and slaughter in the name of Tribe or political gain. if you know what happened in Mogadishu its speechless civilian being murder without no reason You don't see Those people bragging about being killed and expecting to get something for return, they move on and ready to establish The union of our nation.. why shouldn't you??? Baidabo was the worst than North 300.000 being killed a man made starvation ,, you don't see Them yapping and demanding something for return They know The Union of our Nation is bigger than civil war and tribal conflict.. why shouldn't you see that light too? our Unity, Greater Somalia is bigger and wiser than Political interest and the conflict we have among us, our nation like AliGhedi said "Beautiful Somalia" is on Steak we should remember what happened all of us and never look back. Somalis Should realize All of us we encountered Death, and Destruction lets put This nonsense behind that every Tribe who lost people will say Gee, I am not happy so I will create my own mini-state, Nonsense Later
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| | Tuesday, March 06, 2001 - 07:58 am NOw...wait.,...I thought u guys were talking of... reuniting the Somalis....not.. NOrth...South..wars....or..did I misread....the message??
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| | Tuesday, March 06, 2001 - 11:44 am folks, Many people belief Said Barre was responsible for the destruction of our nation, I sincerely belief the Qat has major part of the destruction of the nation and you all know where it came from and who brought it to the people. My point is let them stay away from us, we will be okay.
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| | Tuesday, March 06, 2001 - 11:54 am ICE_man You are Fucking Puntlander so why don,t u stack whit your region? instead advicing Somalilanders..get some life A$$ hole
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| | Tuesday, March 06, 2001 - 03:16 pm Assalamu Alaikum, People, we must realize there is nothing we can do as arm chair politicians. Please let bygones be bygones. Somaliland is here to stay whether you like it or not. To me it is comical to attribute Somaliland and one clan, for it demotes and trivializes the array of other clans that share this nation. We all have our opinions, but thats all we have a right to. Wassalam Wa bilaahi Towfiiq
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| | Tuesday, March 06, 2001 - 04:51 pm SUMMERTIME&SIRRUS&Ice-Man Thank you brothers,I almost came close to tears when I read your responses,Thank you once again. Lets be realistic Somaliland doesn't exist,it's a dream,Somalia is our country wether we accept it or not,ignorance is our #enemy,the likes of Somalilander and those who share his mentality are what's holding us back from creating an African empire. We as the new generation need to forgive but not forget lets say together'NEVER AGAIN" I know most of us lost our beloved ones in a nonsense war,Cigaal and the rest of these warlords need to be stopped. We need to create a happy future for our children free of tribalism free of hate. Let's get rid of qabiil loyalty if we are to stop this,we need to begin with ourselves first. ALLAH swt says"atamuroona al-naas bil macroofe waa tansuuna anfusakum" CIID WANAAGSAN.
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| | Wednesday, March 07, 2001 - 09:32 am Someone used my name "Somalilander" and I'll let it pass cause he used it in a way i support of. SOMALILAND DOES EXIST! If you do not beleive so please do humour yourself by visiting "http://www.somalilandgov.com" and you'll see for yourself...
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| | Wednesday, March 07, 2001 - 06:42 pm One thing I notice about all the idiots who were taking about a Nation called Somalia, is that they don't know it is DEAD. Somalia is DEAD...get over it dreamers. I'm a Canadian, but was born to a Somali, with no feelings,jobless father, like all of them. Anyway, stupid ignorant ppl move on with your life...enjoy the freedom and the peace that this land had given you. Open your eyes you fools and look. Somalia is a war zone and it was always like that and will stay. Besides that, it is a huge land fill for western garbage now and for ever. The land as well as the creatures who live there are polluted. Let's move on...and see the sun shine over here...baby. enjoy
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| | Thursday, March 08, 2001 - 08:44 am Proud to be the direct descendants of the Awdal (Adel) empire inhabitants, we are happy to announce that from now on we will revive our civilization and bring it back to the track from which it was derailed by the foreign forces. The Awdal Republic that will soon emerge will be democratic, compassionate and civilized. Certainly when we achieve our goal, gone will be the days when the Awdalians were the naked needles that sewed other people's clothes; gone will be the days when our destiny was in unfriendly hands and gone will be the days when we believed blindly in Somali nationalism. We believe strongly that a nation is a nation when the basic rights of every individual are guaranteed, but when the state in whose bosom the individual is supposed to feel secure is turned into a clannish spear to tear the flesh of the former rival clans, then it becomes the responsibility of every group to protect its citizens. Awdalians are no exceptions. By breaching the terms of the treaties with the Awdalians, the British derailed our state and played poker with our territory. The remaining parts of Awdal joined voluntarily to Somalia on 1st July 1960. The only fruits of independence became a nightmare: the loss of sovereignty, denial of basic rights of the individual, naked nepotism, intentional under-development by taxing the people without ever spending a penny for the Awdalian welfare. The sandy beaches of Mogadishu sucked and absorbed that revenue. "We can't fill the bag whose bottom lies at Mogadishu and whose rim touches Loyi'ado - a distance of two thousand kilometers-!", an Awdalian complained once. Awdal became the true stepchild of Somalia. A single project was not carried out in Awdal since independence. The virtual non-existence of any infrastructure in Awdal, its neglected landscape that was denuded of both flora and fauna, and the abject poverty of its citizens speaks poetically of the kind of union that we were duped into. In addition, the Awdalians carried the brunt of the wars against the dictatorial regimes of ex-Ethiopia. As a result, the ex-regime's troops shelled, bombed and strafed all towns and villages in Awdal. On 31st January 1984, the Mengistu's planes killed in twenty seconds eighty-four civilians, including thirty-five children, in Borama. While all this was going on, most Somalis were ignorant of the plight of these people and no one reported their continuous suffering. Moreover, the Awdalians shared with the rest of the country the brutal oppression of dictator Said Barre. It goes down in history that the first innocent civilian killed by Barre's firing squads in Hargiesa in 1970 was from Awdal. On top of all these calamities, the SNM, spearheading an entire division of Mengistu's troops, slaughtered five hundred fifty innocent people in Borama, Dila and Zeila on February 4th, 1991. And when the SNM had occupied, with the "generous" assistance of these troops and had inherited the ammunition dumps in the north of Somalia, the first step they took was a deliberate clan-cleansing of the non-Isack clans from their homes in Gebiley, Hargeisa, Arabsiyo, Eiragavo and Ainabo. To humiliate further the clans in the north, they hijacked their elders and took them first to Harar (Ethiopia) in April 1991 and later to Burao where they were intimidated to sign a "compulsory declaration of independence" that has been concocted directly by "Mengistu Haila Miriam". Two ex-Ethiopian generals, violating directly the sovereignty of the Somali state, were directing that so-called conference at Burao. Thus, by carrying out these repugnant deeds that are contrary to whatever values or culture we shared as Somalis since the last millennium, the SNM dealt a mortal blow to any bonds of brotherhood and sisterhood we shared. Now, if Somalia disintegrates, the Awdalians, who have been the victims of the Somali nationalism, cannot be blamed. History is our testimony that we have persevered in spite of all kinds of oppression and that we have striven to keep Somalia together but that earned us only scorn and a threat to our very survival. We can't be apart of a nation guided by the whims of crazy clannish zealots; nor shall we be part of a nation kept together by coercion, and we will never accept again to be the underdogs waiting for the offal. We understand fully that the decisions we have taken are not light but God has not ordained that we become the guardians of the Somali nation. After seeing half a million of its people starved to death and millions of others obliged to go through all kinds of humiliation, Somalia is not the same any more. Therefore, by solemnly declaring our independence, we are confident that the Somali people will support us for they understand fully the conditions and circumstances that obliged us to undertake this historic decision. Henceforth, we are the Awdal Republic - the heart of the DIR clan (GADABOURSI and ISSA) - and our boundaries are those of the 19th century Awdal.
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| | Thursday, March 08, 2001 - 08:48 am I Would only say to those who advocate Isaaqism: None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free. Isaaq will remain part of Somalia whether they like it or not. Isaaqs only inhabit 2 regions out of all the 18 regions of Somalia. How are they going to claim to be responsible for the people of Awdal?. We know that they do not dare to come to Carro Dhulbahante-Warsengeli I.E Sool and Sagaag "Puntland".
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| | Thursday, March 08, 2001 - 10:21 am darwiish are u dreaming dude?? The formation of somaliland was an ultimate goal for SNM the freedome fighters. now that dream has came true, and now somaliland exists, and remains the only proprous regions in the whole of somalia. somaliland whether ur isaaq or darood and godobiirsi, cooporation and caliboration is what builds a nation. it just happen to be that isaaq are the majority of these five regions which somaliland consists of. i find extremly funny that dulbahante who has taken part of the excuations of isaaq during barres ragime, and when bare was eventually elimated they become smaller then a cat and quickly feared of reprisal, and it only reflects that isaaq are true piece loving people, who will do any thing to preserv peace in the region, and did not do so. also gadobiirs has taken part of siyaad bares mass killings of innocent isaaq ppl. again isaaq has shown that forgiveness is an asset that only allah can give, and we forgave them. Consider this cinario, if isaaq would have tortured,and expose these tribes to what siyaad bare did to us, would there be any problem? no i don't think there would have been any now. dulbahnte and gudobiirse are double standard with no honour and diginity. it was us who dreamt of somali unity and belived that somalia would be a massive state with the potantial for growth and development. but our dream was turn into turmoil and dust by the somalis and we have been batrayed by darood in particular who thought that they would come and envade our land, and take away our land. now darwiish who is claiming the two regions which 75% of each is occupied by isaaq. this was bares policy for darood. to take thier land. i don't think so brother, sanaag and sool are part of the package and occupied by isaaq ppl.
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| | Thursday, March 08, 2001 - 10:37 am Somaliland exists because Haawiye allow it. S.land rules yeah
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| | Thursday, March 08, 2001 - 11:13 am whatever, I wanted to say my Fellow somaliland Friend Said it all, but I just want to say to you this Mr Xarwiish? If you happen to be from Sanag and Soul then I guest you did not do your home work Well. When did Warsangali and dhulbahante Had the force to resist the Great Worriors Isaaq? or are you trying to impress the other Daarood ?
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| | Thursday, March 08, 2001 - 11:17 am salamu alaikum all It is not easy to see who killed your people walking free and living a good life trying to be an angele. Gani and Morgan are still alive. Somaliland is doing well now, we are rich we don't need any help from any1. Thats why i support the separation am not againet the southren there are good people there. Darood specially, have no land of their own (except Maj who have no lives)they live in the norht with Isaaq or in the saouth with Hawiye and they know they are minority in both regions. They think in South they can control the Hawiye but in North they can't they know they are 2nd class citizin, thats why they want Somaliweyn.
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| | Thursday, March 08, 2001 - 11:25 am SOMALIA: IRIN interview with Prime Minister Ali Khalif Galeyr - part 1 NAIROBI, 20 November (IRIN) - Somalia's newly appointed Prime Minister Ali Khalif Galeyr is in Nairobi for the first official meeting with Kenyan President Daniel arap Moi. The Somali parliament, elected in peace talks hosted in Djibouti, Arta, in August, gave the necessary vote of confidence for Galeyr's appointment on 9 November. Since attempting to set up in Mogadishu, the new government has suffered two assassinations and continues to face opposition from numerous faction leaders and the established breakaway administrations in Somaliland, northwest, and Puntland, northeast. Galeyr spoke to IRIN about what the first steps would be to establish a national administration after ten years without a central government. QUESTION: Why are you in Kenya? ANSWER: We are in Kenya for two main reasons. One is to reestablish contacts with the Kenya government. We also wanted to thank the president for his involvement in the Somali issue, the search for peace for Somalis - and for hosting the very large number of Somali refugees. There are also all those who use Kenya as a transit point. We want to establish relations and an embassy here, and ask the Kenyan government to open an embassy in Mogadishu. President Daniel arap Moi, as an elder statesman, has a role to play in our peace building efforts and also in Somalia coming back to the regional organisations, IGAD (Intergovernmental Authority on Development), and the OAU (Organisation of African Unity). We succeeded in taking part in the last UN General Assembly , and the UN Millennium Summit, the Arab League and the Organisation of Islamic Congress. What is remaining is to complete that circle, and to participate in all these forumss to occupy our rightful place among the international community ... Q: There were issues of recognition by the Kenyan government which recently hosted faction leaders opposed to you. Has that been clarified now? A: I don't think Somalia as a state needs recognition - the regime collapsed, the administration vaporised, and no-one since, has recognised Somaliland and Puntland. As far as the recognition or acceptance of the Somali government - what the United Nations and the Security Council has been saying about Somalia is testimony to our status. President Moi was very open about this. We still have to engage some of the individuals, groups and entities that did not take part in the Arta peace process - but as far as we are concerned, the Somalia state and this government is recognised and accepted. And that is certainly the impression I got when I met President Moi this morning. Q: When the previous government collapsed, some embassies were abandoned, some taken over, and some personnel simply continued - how is the new government dealing with this? A: We had about 26 embassies before the collapse of the administration. We cannot reestablish all 26 of them. We will start with the concept of roving ambassadors - groups and individuals and teams who will play that role. There will be no resident ambassadors. But in places like Kenya and Ethiopia and Djibouti we would like to be physically present as soon as possible. We have buildings that the Somali government actually owns. I think the residence in Kenya was a Somali-owned building, but there have been complications and I have been talking to the lawyer who has been handling that case. Our concept is to use the concept of roving ambassadors and, in the meantime, to get to know what condition these buildings are in. It has been more than ten years that some have stood empty; or, in some places, some people have been occupying them. Places like China, Yemen and Egypt still have staff who are holding the fort ... Wherever we have buildings and assets we will ... take possession ... I don't think any embassy has been occupied by a faction or a warlord ... in all the countries I know of, the individuals who are there, we are in touch with and they are loyal to our government. Q: And the issue of Somali passports which have been illegally issued over the last 10 years? A: We have a proposal which was tabled in the council of ministers. We are about to finalise that, and the technical specifications, and make sure from the point of view of security they will not be easily forged. Whether it is the passport or the new currency, we want to make sure that we do have the real thing and there will be no more potential for misuse. Hopefully, we'll do both of these before the end of the year. Q: If you start talking about taking control of passports and currency, you are taking about the status of the "self-declared" regions of Somaliland and Puntland. A: As far as I know Puntland is using the old notes ... but we will leave this to market forces. There is going to be a market economy. We were not just going to drop truck loads of these new notes on anybody. We want to make sure the establishment of the central bank and other banking institutions are in place. The economy is very much integrated - the bulk of Somali livestock goes through Berbera in Somaliland - after leaving from Gedo in the south and from other parts of the country. The bulk of commodities come into Berbera (from the Gulf States) and then goes all the way to the central regions. I think good money will eventually drive out bad money. Q: What about Somaliland passports? A: As far as we know this is a new venture they have come up with. We will leave it up to the international community. There is a unified Somali state, and a central role is to come up with passports and banknotes. In terms of the international community, nobody - as far as I know - has officially recognised Somaliland so I don't know where these passports are going to be used. Or which countries people holding these Somaliland passports are going to get visas for. We don't really want to create any confrontation over this issue, but we will have our say in it. We will establish what is a passport from the Somali government - and the international community knows that Somalia is represented by one entity, not multiple entities.
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| | Thursday, March 08, 2001 - 12:34 pm getto girl. what is your point, for this get and paste thing
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| | Saturday, March 10, 2001 - 07:35 pm Stupid people recognize: S O M A L I A I S D E A D Move on...enjoy the air you are breathing...Don't turn this land to war zone you IDIOTS. PEACE
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| | Sunday, March 11, 2001 - 05:44 am There has been few suggestions that somalia would be better of as federal state rather having centralised gove'ment. i couldn't agree more with this suggestions. But one thing i like to add to this and keep emphasising is that, somaliland doesn't want to be part of ur set up. We have our own plans for the future, and we have decided to go alone with our own destiny. We have paid a heavy price for our patriotism and plans that we had for bigger somalia. In order to join somalia, we need the somalis to prove to us that they are capable of changing. and shows are real progress. What makes me upset is that we have done no harm to anyone. We didn't come to south and kill ur ppl We didn't go to central regions and slaughter ur ppl. So why are these somalians hate us? it's mistery to me. believe me some of our ppl don't even know ur tribes let alone cause u harm. some ppl merely heard the word Majerteen or hawiye. may allah bless us all thank u
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| | Sunday, March 11, 2001 - 08:49 am TO THAT HOE XAMDA: LISTEN BITCH, HOW DARE YOU TALK LIKE THAT TO THE HONOURABLE DAROOD PPL. DID YOU FORGET THE SYL(SOMALI YOUTH LEGUE) WICH WAS 99 PERCENT DAROOD WAS THE MAIN REASON YOU GOT YOUR INDEPENDENCE. WE DID IT OUT OF LOVE AND SOMALI BROTHERHOOD. THE TRUTH IS, WE DONT NEED HAWIYE OR ISAAQ. DAROOD PPL INHABIT THE BEST GRAZING AREA AND CATTLE PRODUCTION(HAUDKA),THE BEST FISHING COAST(BARI),THE BEST CITIES(LAS ANOD, BOSSAS0, KISMAAYO, ERIGABO) AND THE MOST FERTILE PART OF SOMALIA(LOWER JUBBA). IF WE ARENT THE MOST EDUCATED AND INTELLIGENT PPL IN SOMALIA THEN HOW COME FOR 35 YRS WE WERE THE RULING ELITE IN SOMALIA. IN HERGAISA, DESPITE OF ITS OVERWHELMING ISAAQ MAJORITY; ALL THE HIGH-RANKING POSITIONS WHETHER IT BE CIVIL-SERVICE, THE GOVERNMENT, THE ARMY AND EVEN THE MAYOR WAS OCCUPIED BY DAROOD OFFICIALS. IN XAMAR ALL THE MAYORS, ENGINEERS,INTELLECTUALS, ARCHITECTS,CIVIL-SERVANTS,DOCTORS,LAWYERS AND 90% OF THE GOVERNMENT WERE ALL DAROOD. THEREFORE WALLAHI WE BUILT XAMAR AND HARGEISA AND THEY THANKED US WITH EXILE. THE TRUTH IS HAWIYE AND ISAAQ WERE UNJUSTLY OPPRESSED BY THE SUPERIOR DAROOD FOR THE PAST CENTURY SO THESE SAVAGE CLANS WENT ON A CAMPAIGN TO EXTERMINATE DAROOD PPL BUT BY THE WILL ALLAH IT DID NOT HAPPEN AND TODAY DAROOD IS STILL THE MOST NOBLE CLAN IN SOMALIA. ANYWAYS NO ONE WILL RECOGNISE IDOORLAND OR THE HAWIYE GOVERNMENT WITHOUT DAROOD SUPPORT SO U BETTER WATCH WHAT U SAY ABOUT US.
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| | Sunday, March 11, 2001 - 09:12 am Darood Blah blah bha, is blah blah blah than Hawiye wich is blah blah blha and Isaaqs are blah blah blah so in conclusion We are all here because of blah blah bhal. Somalia is dead so blah blah blah you idiots, everybody knows that Darood is blah blah and the rest of somalis are blah blah does anybody care about what I am saying, are you guys actually paying attention to me. Ha ha ha ha ha. Certain somalis should have never left the Nomadic lifestyle. It seems thinking causes them pain and disconfort. They come here thinking they are qualified enough intellectually to give their filthy opinion. What somalia needs is a DICTATOR just like SIAAD. I mean I hate the guy for what he did but you know what, he was able to quiet the filthy mouths of those idiots we find in this forums. Much love my ignorant people.
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| | Sunday, March 11, 2001 - 12:05 pm LOOOOOOOOOOL SIRRUS. well when people are emotionally on fire they can't reason logically,and thats what happenening in here. well people especially,the sick ones, swallow a razor blade,with hot salty water. trust me you will get over it. isaaq blaaa daarood blaaa hawiye blaaa . dream on for there will never be somaliland , shitland or stupidland,becasue we can never agree on the borders of those stupid lands. it will not happen , unlike bush you can read my lips. it's okay to vent your angers here cuz somalia is one for ever. dummies, why are you losers insulting clans back and forth.
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| | Sunday, March 11, 2001 - 02:11 pm why are you trying to hold on to the north like they own a dick in your face. Get a life idiots. North is north, south is somewhere down there. Don't make a stupid mistake and allow yourself to believe you have a chance in hell of having a say as to our future. Siyad with all the united southern faqosh arms got kicked in the butt. Get the pict! politics is not a warriors cup of tea... why don't we just wait and see how tough you are when the North/south war starts again....... i see it coming again... This time north will take over the whole ex-somaal map... full stop... you all will get raped by Kenyans... and become half mombo....... hahahaha jumbo in the india ocian... You must be warned Northerners are all warriors... southerners are all diplomates.... i say you will all run.... at first sight of trouple.
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| | Sunday, March 11, 2001 - 03:46 pm SOMALILAND IS A DICTATORIAL CONCEPTUAL REGIME THAT DOESN’T COINCIDE WITH A VAST MAJORITY OF IT’S SO-CALLED ‘LANDERS’ VIEWS NOR ASPIRATIONS. THE FICTIONAL SOMALILAND CLAIMS TO HAVE A UNITY OF PEOPLE THAT FALL WITHIN IT’S FACTIOUS BORDERS WHICH IS FRANKLY UNTRUE. THE FACTS ARE: 1. THERE IS NO SUCH RECOGNIZED PLACE – EXCEPT AMONGST HATE MONGERS, POWER HUNGRY OLD MEN AND THE MISLEAD 2. THE FEW MENTIONED ABOVE SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO ATTEMPT TO GAG AND CONTROL THOSE WHO DISAGREE PROFUSELY WITH THE HATEFUL VISION GENERATED IN THE NAME OF NORTHERNERS. AFTER ALL IT IS THE VERY SAME IDIOTS THAT HAVE AIDED IN LEAVING US SOMALIS – THAT INCLUDES ISAAC – NAKED IN THE EYES OF THE WORLD LEFT US HUNGRY AND SCRAPPING FOR EXPIRED AND OUT-OF-DATE HANDOUTS FROM THOSE WHO RIDICULE US NOW LEFT OUR CHILDREN CULTURELESS AND CONFUSED IF NOT FILLING MENTAL HOSPITALS LEFT OUR MEN SHATTERED IN THEIR MANHOOD LEFT OUR WOMAN TO STAND ALONE LEFT OUR MOTHERS CRYING AND OUR FATHERS IN DISAPPEAR WITH THE GRACE OF ALLAH (SWT) SOMALIA WILL STAND ON IT’S FEET AND IT’S HAPPENING TODAY. MAY THOSE WHO DRIVE THE HATEFUL SOMALILAND CONFUSION BE DAMMED IN THE HELL THEY WITH TO CONTINUE CREATING AND MAY THE REST OF US HAVE A PEACEFUL SOMALIA FOR REAL SOMALIS THAT LOVE THE LAND OUR FOREFATHERS WORKED TO HAND OVER TO US. DON’T LEAVE SHAME ON THE CHILDREN TO COME IN ASSOCIATING THEM WITH A BLOODLINE OF MURDERS AND HATEFUL PEOPLE, LEAVE YOU’RE CHILDREN AND THEIRS AFTER THAT WITH THE LEGACY OF THOSE WHO LOVED THE LAND AND WORKED FOR THE BETTER OR OUR PEOPLE. LA GIRL IN LONDON
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| | Sunday, March 11, 2001 - 04:23 pm I am Isaaq I am Dhulbahante I am Majerteein I am Habar Gidir I am Abgal I am Marehaan I am Midgan I am Sab I am Ogaden I am Gadubursi I am Issa Who am I? If you say I am one confused f%cuked person, you are wrong, you see I am exactly all those clans, who am I.
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| | Sunday, March 11, 2001 - 04:47 pm I hate somalis I set clans against each other I ruled for 20+ years I lost the war and destroyed the somali united dream I ordered the murder of many Issaks,Marjertein,Hawiye I sent the Issaks against the rest of somalia I air bombed Hargeysa, mined the border and all the north. I killed over 500 000 people, some shot, some cut their troat and dumped in wells I signed a treaty in 1988 with Ethiopia, giving them half of my people for ever. I ordered the killing of Isaks in the middle of the night in Mogadishu and also the shoting of people in the Stadium after they booed me. I gave the goverment to my brothers and sisters, even if they didn't know how to run things. I left Mogadishu on fire and promised that I shall leave a country but not people. Who am I????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????/
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| | Monday, March 12, 2001 - 08:58 am Somalia will unite one day, but it takes time. There are many wounds which still have to be healed. I have read a lot of negative comments regarding Issaq, many seem to believe that they were responsible for the war and all the suffering. This is exatly where our problems lie, how can we move on when people refuse to acknowledge what really happened. Many people, especially Darood, will not accept that leaders from their tribe ( not them) were responsible for the war. Untill we have this, how can we move on or go anywhere??? We have to accept that many people feel hurt and betrayed by this, and will not trust again. Another point I would like to make, regards Somali Leaders ( North and South )They are all old me , and very much concerned with tribal politics. Some were even part of the previous Government. My point is, how can we move on when there are no young leaders to help us progress. None of our youth want to go back, we are all here enjoying ourselves, and we have forgotten that we are only here temporarily. I would also like to say that I visited Somaliland this summer, and while the people where hostile towards the idea of a unified somalia , people from other tribes ( Darood) were not treated badly by society as whole. Egal even has some darood ministers.
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| | Monday, March 12, 2001 - 09:29 am Well, the Idoors have developed some sort of guts to speak against their old time Masters " who are these master?, of course you would ask such a thing cause you don't deem to avow that Dhulbahante were your Masters and will continue to do so if you don't shut your ilkahaaga fucked up ah ee gud gudduudan". I can not believe you would say that the troubled child of Somalia "isaaq" is peace-loving man, I gather you have been living in a very murky environment when it comes to Somali politics. Dioors feared for their lives and not dared to fight against Dhulbahante people as they did our poor fellow Somalis Gadabuursi. If you had the effrontery then you would launch your ill-fated warriors " as you call them" to snare the Dhulbahante territory as you did to our underfed chums of Awdal. All these chaps who are in your fatuous little administration they are there with only one incentive and that is of course; to make sure that you would not get what the isaaqs crave for. If you have what it takes to tackle us and we welcome you to out lands. Do come and pick a fight like a man. Afhakame.
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| | Monday, March 12, 2001 - 09:33 am the question should be the other way around...for somaliland is trying to depart from the rest of somalia, they think the rest of somali will join and they would get hit one more.
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| | Monday, March 12, 2001 - 10:38 am i find this amusing hhaha Mr so call afhakame! poor dhulka and warsangeli and gadobiirsi My friend drop the name sanaag first of all, u shouldn't claim land that doesn't belong to u. Secondly dhulka! the most undiginfy tribe in the whole of somalis. marba meel halagu waso? marba meel u carar, mar southka qabo hawiye ha ku qaraacee. mar darood dhuuso weyn sheego majerteen ha ku qaraacee. man u don't even deserve my reponse i shouldn't be speaking to with likes of u dhulka. We are the elites of somaliland, and it will remain so. We have moved on, we have progressed and no one will turn the clock back. we have already chased u from erigavo, dhanaano, canyanabo, dareerweyne.
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| | Tuesday, March 13, 2001 - 12:38 am Forget about the old men who have died and those that are dying!!! i swear this is no lie... Northerners have developed emotionaly beyond your wildest fucking dreams... and i am sure so have the southerners... i promise you all if there is ever another war there won't be any survivorers on the whole map... People have all become heartless and care about noone and nothing... the ethist are large in number and murder will not even cross their mind... they will terminate all they can... so let north go... i beg you to let the idea of unity go with the wind... You all speak from your back sides as if you are politicians... i ask you to see the situation for what it is... you are here or there not in africa and you will be lighting a flame which will leave nothing standing...... North needs its total independance from southern ways... we in the north are a conservative down to earth people who care not for the greedy ways of the southerners... we are peacefull... we are of nomadic and warrior ancestary... we enjoy our stability and slow calm way of life... Southerners are too fast and far from conservative... we are different... we can't unity for our differences even though minor are enought to differentiate us beyond any level of tollerable co-existance... leave us be... let this dragon rest please... Wake our sleeping dragon and suffer the scorching flames that will errase all in it's path.
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| | Tuesday, March 13, 2001 - 09:17 pm listen care fully we great Garxajis there will be no somaliland is dead and we will bring northern somalia to Somali unity....we all Somali..
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| | Wednesday, March 14, 2001 - 07:09 am Garhejix who??
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