site-wide search

SomaliNet Forums: Archives

This section is online for reference only. No new content will be added. no deletion either...

Go to Current Forums ...with millions of posts

Debate: Thought Processes; Everyone is welcome; whether scholar or common man!

SomaliNet Forum (Archive): General Discusions: General (Current): Debate: Thought Processes; Everyone is welcome; whether scholar or common man!
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  

Sophist

Tuesday, April 03, 2001 - 03:19 am
If you would like to enter this debate feel free to join your ideas are welcome.

Indeed it is a "heavy" subject to tackle.

We will start the debate with this assertion:

"Thought Processes" is the wrong linguistically language to use when applying it to animals. True or false. (Give reasons)


The word "Thought" as defined by the Encarta Dictionary is as follows:

thought1

1. The activity or process of thinking

2. An idea, plan, conception, or opinion produced by mental activity

3. The intellectual, scientific, and philosophical ideas associated with a particular place, time, or group

4. The ability to think and reason

5. The process of applying the mind to thinking about a particular person or subject

6. An intention of doing something

7. An expectation or hope that something will happen

8. A feeling of respect, affection, or consideration for somebody or something

9. A small amount on a comparative scale

Thought2

Past participle of think Past tense of think

Another word for "thought" is COGNITION, which is:

Act or process of knowing. Cognition includes attention, perception, memory, reasoning, judgement,

Process is defined as:

Process2 VI

To move forward in a procession

Process1 n

1. A series of actions directed toward a particular aim

2. A series of natural occurrences that produce change or development

vt to treat or prepare something in a series of steps or actions

So now we can take it from here.

If you think this is too tedious let me know.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  

Anonymous

Tuesday, April 03, 2001 - 03:30 am
What is this; a mind excercise?

Come on people leave your intelectulityu out of this place.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  

Abaay

Tuesday, April 03, 2001 - 03:45 am
This was every funny.......

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  

Anonymous

Tuesday, April 03, 2001 - 03:57 am
the following would apply to animal:

Act or process of knowing. Cognition includes attention, perception, memory, reasoning, judgement,


elaborate on what types of animal you are speaking of, us are classified as a type of animal mammal. your question is too board......

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  

DrWho

Tuesday, April 03, 2001 - 03:59 am
Salamu ALaikum Warahma to you all

I can not believe my ayes Mr Sophist! Why on earth did you post this subject on the Somalinet? This was a private discussion, I am sure you are not going to post all the emails we have exchanged? Or are you? Anyway since this is done; I might as well inter the debate in public. Before doing so shall i ask whether you have notified with the other acquaintances that were participating this debate? Anyhow I shall forward your last email to them insha Allah.

Since some of us aren't versed in the study of animal psychology I put it to You all that our discussion will centre around a purely linguistic analysis of certain terms and what connotations they incur on objects of reality. This does not bode well for the attainment of anything resembling a satisfactory conclusion. However for the sake of our whimsical rapour I will begin:

Note that I have not at any stage of the proceedings ever enunciated a ideological stance reflective of any doctrinal principles I hold. I have restrained myself to merely attempting to challenge your contention that processes of thought are exclusively a feature of Human Beings. I have never contended that other beings have the same level of humanity or self conscious spiritual identity but they undeniably posses the ability to construct, sequence and sum a series of cognitory units (i.e. textural, special,
velocity, temporal...). It is these cognitory units that all these living sentient beings assimilate and process (the linkage of cognitory units=process of thought) to arrive at certain conclusions pertaining to their immediate surroundings in order to walk, communicate, eat...in short to function.

Thought processes therefore are a prerequisite of functionality in a multi-layered and complex physical environment.

So there you are.

Wasalamu alaikum

DrWho
London

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  

Anonymous

Tuesday, April 03, 2001 - 04:33 am
Very intellectual, i like that style of yours, what do you do for a living? any chance of being Somalinet Writer?

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  

Anonymous

Tuesday, April 03, 2001 - 04:36 am
Some of the people here are exhibiting a lack of wisdom or good sense hence they come accross us foolish. What is this sophistucaoeted things man?

Come on beat it will you all.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  

Sophie

Tuesday, April 03, 2001 - 04:53 am
This is one of the silly things that i have seen on the net.

Why are you Sohhist trying to prove, if this was something betweenyou and drwho " who i find it extremely strange man: highly intelligent, witty in a sardonic way, and a snob, who is full of satire and last but not least a man that his pride surpasses his pretentiuoness". I see this as silly and nacasnimo.

Anyway, what you wrote mr Drwhhoo i have no clue the meaning of it and i am law student as you are aware of So, you can not tell me my english is in it's infimacy.

Datoere: you nknow i am joking, i am just saying things that i dare not to say while i am with you dear, i find you exceedingly " to use your words" intimidating.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  

Anonymous

Tuesday, April 03, 2001 - 05:05 am
Sophie,

My actual sentiments, i knew some of us had enough of this middle class " pre-assumed one of course" intellengensia that gets no where if you are not one.

Guys we know you are learned men, so why do you need to flaunt it?

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  

Sophist

Tuesday, April 03, 2001 - 05:09 am
Why can you read and see what the people have written, if you can not contribute then to this topic then please do us a favour and leave us alone.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  

Anonymous

Tuesday, April 03, 2001 - 05:23 am
I do not understand.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  

Halimo

Tuesday, April 03, 2001 - 08:11 am
Full of impotence and rudeness i would say.

I find trhe whole thging quite a sham least to say.

Why are we insulting these brothers, if you guys hate their guys then why don't you tell them in person.

And you sophia, if you know drwho in personal level, why don't you tell him how you feel about his personal behaviuour, if you thing he is out of class then tell him if otherwise admire you bloke and you know what else to do.

To the others, i think this debate is fruitfull but i hate to admit is exceeds my ability, i have no clue what these people are talking about ant i say that with proud mouth unlike many of us who deem themselves to be caqliloowyaal but when it comes to reality they chicken out and insult the these men who come up with the delighhtfull and delicious nevertheless complex topic.

See you guys in ....

Halimo

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  

WelfareEATER

Tuesday, April 03, 2001 - 08:19 am
The first researcher to concentrate upon the life cycle in relation to
poverty and inequality was closely involved with the policy initiatives of
the New Democrats - David Ellwood, a Harvard Professor who worked with
Bill Clinton's welfare reform initiative. Besides collecting time-series data
for the initiative, Ellwood directly studied welfare offices and interviewed
welfare officials and recipients. The welfare system, he concluded - not
only in the US, but in Europe too - concentrates on the 'who' of poverty,
not the 'why'. One welfare recipient said, "l've been on and off welfare for
ten years. I've been in and out of the welfare office dozens of times.
Never once in that entire ten-year period did anyone ask me what I
always thought would be the first question, "What''s the problem, how can
I help you?" Instead they say, "What''s your income? How many kids do
you have?"

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  

Anonymous

Tuesday, April 03, 2001 - 09:03 am
LAUGHS OUT LOUDLDY

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  

Anonymous

Tuesday, April 03, 2001 - 10:48 am
Teresa Munby

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  

Mahir

Tuesday, April 03, 2001 - 11:47 am
Secret symbolic responses to intrinsic (arising from within) or extrinsic (arising from the environment) stimuli. Thought, or thinking, is considered to mediate between inner activity and external stimuli. That is what the Psychology books say about the definition of Thought.

Though I am not erudite in psychological study in general let alone the subject in question " namely Animal psychology", I would however, attempt " because Emdad states neither us are qualified to comment in that level" to state my opinion in this hefty issue. Depending on the relative intensity of intrinsic and extrinsic influences, thinking can be expressive (imaginative and full of fantasy) or logical (directed and disciplined). Other terms for the two aspects of thinking are, respectively, autistic (subjective, emotional) and realistic (objective, externally directed). Both types of thinking are involved in normal adjustment. Question arises " to use Russell's preferred word" Does these attributes present in animals " excluding of course us " mammals; especially humans" This I feel is the centre of this debate, if the answer to that question is no, then surely we know where the over all issue lies.

I am fervently waiting what your honourable friend response would be.

Mahir

PS Do excuse my poor usage of English, Some of us are quite unaccustomed to partake such highly esoteric debates, I hope my ill written piece would not put you off.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  

SpoiltRichGirl

Tuesday, April 03, 2001 - 12:54 pm
I've heard it all. U guys wanna communicate with animals now. I give up.

Intellectual my azz

SOPHIST
If U have anything to say other than the junk U just protrayed please do so, coz whatever U saying is uncomprehendable. Furthermore stop forwarding other peoples views and emails and passing it on as yours. I am not trying to offend you bro, but all Im saying is please display something interesting next time. Might save us the hassle of reading boring copyrights. Thanx for your attention.

LAYTA PEEPS

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  

LA Girl

Tuesday, April 03, 2001 - 02:34 pm
Phew!,
when I came upon this topic I knew it. the poster of this topic could not be non other than him. it had the putrid smell of DR.WHO
I have never met another human being whose mind is so jumble and so disorderly as His.
When the man talks ,your sense of direction departs. Such a jumble headed creature.
My good man, why don't you ever talk like a human instead of a broken down robot.
I suggest you should go back to cloud cuckoo land and Sip tea with the like minded screwballs.
You kooky of kook!
You are no scholar, but a big phony!

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  

Diasporagal

Tuesday, April 03, 2001 - 03:34 pm
Can we take the 'thought process' debate to another level?
I contend that the apes have more sophisticated thought process which enables the peaceful co-existence of large group of apes for generations on, a fact that greatly enhances the longevity of the average ape; by contrast the same can not be to said of Somali men's egotistically driven thought processes. A fact highlighted today by the current Somali state of affairs whether inside the country or in the diaspora. Statistics now show the average life span of the Somali to be 43 years! one of the lowest in the world!
Thought process? I say 1 for the apes and 0 for Somali men.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  

philosopher

Tuesday, April 03, 2001 - 06:44 pm
very good debate thinking things true thought means power of thiking or philosopher and we get older and older it will dwindle and becomes Alsimar-disease.........the brain will lose its power of thinking and remembering.....but technology is looking ways to improve...the brain such as electrical shock.....ama sida taariikhda Somaalidda u caadadda ahayd dhafoorka layska gubi jiray....haddii aad aragtid qof Somaaliyeed oo labadda xis ka guban Alsamir-disease ayaa laga gubay..philosopher

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  

DrWho

Wednesday, April 04, 2001 - 04:58 am
When are these people going to redeem themselves and re-instate their humanness?

Sophist had initiated a topic that some of us find quite intriguing, but if you are one of those who does not appeal topics such as the one before us, why can't you omit from your "thoughts" and let those who have the mental endowment to undertake such topics?

To all of those who appreciate a "lively" discussions. Please do not be discouraged by these disingenuously depraved people.

DrWho
London

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  

DrWho

Wednesday, April 04, 2001 - 05:04 am
Mahir,

Well well well.

I tip my hat off you my fellow friend.

I wonder what Emdad is going to say about this?

DrWho
London

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  

Durgal

Wednesday, April 04, 2001 - 05:41 am
I have news for the forces of ignorance and the defenders of the status quo: Your time has gone. It's time for change in this Somalinet Forum. The time for the young intellectual Somalis to take their stance.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  

IDMAN

Wednesday, April 04, 2001 - 05:58 am
i just want to let you know that i have read what you posted up in here and to be honest with you i dunno what the heck you talking about..

But i have one Question to ask you and DR.WHO, what you guys proving us here eh?? That you are smarties, well-taken if that is the case...forgive me if i say something harsh aight..

pleasee do understand i am just curious that is all...

peace out

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  

Sophist

Wednesday, April 04, 2001 - 06:24 am
Dear Somalis;

I for one need not to prove anything to you all; I thought this is mentally challenging and I have assumed that there some people who can stick up to this level; but once more I am wrong. Drwho and I are good chums; we like to unravel issues that can be rigorous to our mental ability; it is called maximising our potential being " our minds". We accentuate on topics that we find quite stimulating; sometimes we over-stimulated things and provide a plethora of things that might be well kept in where they belong " but I hate to admit I like opening the Pandora box of rumpuses, is that healthy? That is to for the public to decide, it is sure better to engage issues that are quite distasteful not to mention of risqué things as we witness in the forums every day?".

We can only be blameworthy on the account of bringing up topic that requite a certain amount of art and enlightenment; if the majority of the public find us guilty on other accounts then we should endure the consequences.

Once again, please no name-calling and let us be real Somalis " Somalis are known to be people of high oratory and wisdom * this might not be reflecting in relation of what we are going through* "

Sophist

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  

Anonymous

Wednesday, April 04, 2001 - 06:30 am
Why are we hijecking thise people

i wonder what we gain from insulting one anopther.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  

DrWho

Wednesday, April 04, 2001 - 08:22 am
Sophist,

Dear Sirs,

I will say this one more time;My angles are many y sides are not few,and if you try to Attempt to psychoanalysis on me then you might be prone to be psychologically hospitalised. This is a warning and word of advice for those who endeavour all their efforts to undermine " not that they can do it" our efforts as residents of this Forum.

Waslamua Alaikum

DrWho
London

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  

DrWho

Wednesday, April 04, 2001 - 08:24 am
Sophist,

Dear Sirs,

I will say this one more time;My angles are many, my sides are not few,and if you try to Attempt to psychoanalysis on me then you might be prone to be psychologically hospitalised. This is a warning and word of advice for those who endeavour all their efforts to undermine " not that they can do it" our efforts as residents of this Forum.

Waslamua Alaikum

DrWho
London

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  

DrWho

Wednesday, April 04, 2001 - 08:25 am
Sophist,

Dear Sirs,

I will say this one more time;My angles are many, my sides are not few,and if you try to Attempt to psychoanalysis on me then you might be prone to be psychologically hospitalised. This is a warning and word of advice for those who endeavour with all their efforts to undermine " not that they can do it" our efforts as residents of this Forum.

Waslamua Alaikum

DrWho
London

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  

MAD_MAGG

Wednesday, April 04, 2001 - 08:48 am
Much of reading the analytical and reasoning of the horouble gents above, i think that you gents have bron in a wrong society. I would urge not to stoop down to the level of these filthy muggers.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  

Anonymous

Wednesday, April 04, 2001 - 05:53 pm
You know what I am shocked at the people posting this or shall I say person. It's my understanding that he wanted us "somalis" to broaden our train of thought and to come to a conclusion. To Sophists I honestly think your an intellectual person and anyone else in this room who has anything to say about his question. I think though you might be a little naive thinking that the majority of somali people will be intrigued by your questions.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  

WARRIOR

Wednesday, April 04, 2001 - 07:50 pm
I HAD THIS NOMADIC WARRIOR CHICK ONCE AND SHE STOLE MY OLY ONE CAMEL...THEN I CAME TO THE BIG CITY AND BOUGHT ONE COW..THE COW WAS STUPID AND SICK SO I SOLD IT TO THE BUTCHER AND I BOUGHT A DONKEY WHO RAN WAY FROM ME SO I STOLE A ROOSTER FROM AN OLD LADY THE ROOSTER STARTED TO SING AND ALL THE KIDS OF THE CITY CAME TO ME AND YELLED AT ME ..I GOT SO MAD THAT I TOOK MY KNIFE OUT AND CHASED THEM AWAY BUT THE ROOSTER WAS GONE TOO, SO I SAT DOWN ON THE STREET AND I SLEPT, THEN I WOKE UP AND THIS OLD TOOTHLESS OLD CHICK WAS ON ME , DOING ME..I FELT SO MAD THAT I PUNCHED HER TO DEATH..AS I WAS ABOUT TO LEAVE, THE POLICE CAME AND I WAS TAKEN TO THE PRISON...THIS GANG LEADER TOLD ME TO BE HIS MAID AND I REFUSED AND WE HAD A FIGHT AND I KILLED HIM RIGHT THERE THEN I BECOME THE GANG LEADER IN THE PRISON...AFTER 10 YEARS I WAS RELEASED FROM JAIL THEN THE WAR STARTED AND I TOOK MY RPG AND JUST WENT ON RAMPAGE..I KILLED ALL THAT CAME CLOSE TO ME..I WAS SO MERCILESS. I WAS THE MOST RUTHLESS CRULE ACT IN THERE. THEN PEOPLE CAME TO ME AND SAID JOIN OUR TRIBE AND WE WILL MAKE YOU A WARLORD. I ACCEPTED THAT....AND THEN I TOOK A FLIGHT TO KENYA GUESS WHAT THE NOMADIC WARRIOR CHICK WHO STOLE MY CAMEL ON THE PLACE WAS THERE... I WENT TO HER WANTING TO KILL HER BUT SHE GAVE ME A HUGE HUG AND A KISS AND TOLD ME TO COME WITH HER TO AMERICA. NOW WE ARE IN AMERICA AND MY AND MY WARRIOR NOMAD CHICK HAVE TWO CRAZY KIDS TOGATHER. THEY BOTH FIGHT ALL THE TIME AND BEAT ALL KIDS WHITE, BLACK, YELLOW AND RED. THEY HAVE BEEN EXPELLED FROM SCHOOL DOZEN TIMES AND I AM PROUD OF THEM.......

THAT IS MY STORY..BYE

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  

Durgal

Wednesday, April 04, 2001 - 08:22 pm
Hey sucker don't use my nick. You can be at least Anon. Man you are lonely son of bitch. Retarded Racoon. Somalinet is becoming like ghetto.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  

soomaalcaanaha

Thursday, April 05, 2001 - 04:35 am
I couldn't Agree more.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  

Durgal

Thursday, April 05, 2001 - 04:58 am
You phoney Durgal leave my nick alone will you. You know guys and don't write like this man above. Have you seen me using SUCKER?

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  

awaale

Thursday, April 05, 2001 - 06:25 am
Interesting topic,albeit a rather stupid crew of Somalis. I do admit though, I must laugh long and hard at some of your posts & shananigans-mahir, sophist,drwho you gave me quite a laugh. Yes I find it rather amusing when people spend tremendous amounts of time attempiting intelligence but infact contributing nothing to the debate. aah well... back to the topic at hand.

For those of you who could not decipher the question from the multitude of pastes our friend sophist was kind enough to provide, to put it quite simply,it asked if animals have thought processes-is this linguistically correct?

Let me the first to say YES, TRUE, CORRECT. Thought is not dependent on language, as Sophist incorrectly assumed, infact nonlinguistic thought process of animals is analogous to that of preverbal human infants. In examining this closly, we must be cautious and avoid umbrella terms like "intelligent" and "sensitive." We can be more precise and ask, What do animals remember? How do they represent objects? What kinds of emotions, aside from basic visceral reactions such as fear, do they experience toward things that attack them or cuddle them? This has been an age old question i suppose-can animals think? yes animals think and feel, but not necessarily like us.

awaale

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  

Sophist

Friday, April 06, 2001 - 06:52 am
Awaale;

Thanks for your veiw.

Feel like posting? Pleaase click here for the list of current forums.