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Apologise to Americans now?

SomaliNet Forum (Archive): General Discusions: Archive1 (Before Feb 2000): Apologise to Americans now?
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Abu-Susan

Unrecorded Date
Knowing my country and my people, I do not foresee any peace for my country in the near future, a very sad event as scores of innocents lives are being wasted and thousands more suffering due to collapse of health care system and food security.

Eventually Somalians must mature and start behaving like all other civilised people who effect change with the force of reason and not the reason of force. Every one will agree though that such a time is a few decades away. We can enhance or rather jump start the peace process and return to a conventional mode of government by asking international peace keepers into the country to disarm all warring factions, train a local police to keep law and order, conduct civic education and eventually have elections etc.

So should the Americans be called back to sort out the mess for us? But before this we must call the Americans an apology, shall we?

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hebel

Unrecorded Date
I stiil don't see the reason why we should apologize....don't get me wrong I got nothing against Apology but why the heck why?
And by the way are you somehow married to a New yorker?

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Cleopatra

Unrecorded Date
Lol@@Hebel.
Abu-Susan, don't overestimate foreign interference. That ain't the answer. It is the will of the people that brings about change and peace. Not foreigners who don't have a stake in the situation.

As they say, even when you are despairing,don't drool on yourself and be a wimp.
Apologize... for what...? What have Somalis done to Americans that the Americans haven't done to Somalis huh??
Enlighten us please.

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Ahmad

Unrecorded Date
Asalama `Alaykum Muslims!

Abu-Susan,

WWWwwahhhhhhaaaaaattt???? You know, i'm sorry...but with somalis like you -- who needs an enemy. You think we should apologize to America? Why? America tried to make somalia a *colony* part of their country, remember??? Haallooo? Am I the only one who recalls the `92/`93 deal? Somalis don't need the filthy of America -- as simple as that. I would rather live under the tyrancy of Saddam than the democracy of the U.S. planted in Somalia -- TRULY, democracy needs apology itself.

BESIDES, you yourself said so "reason of force" does NOT do any good. If somalis are forced to be civilized...it will NOT work. Maybe for a year or a decade -- until each tribe is strong enough to buy weapons of their own, again. I say let somalis decide when and if they want to be civilized. AND, if the unthinkable should happen -- and somalis cease to exist, then we'll only have to blame ourselves for that. Otherwise, Somalis will never learn to grow up and will blame everything that goes wrong in their world for others. Do you think that helps? No, of course, not.

And, yaa Abu-Susan, don't you know that we ALL contribute things to our world? Yu're changing your culture by naming your children names that do not belong to you -- you could name her "caraweelo" or "cambaro" or "ceebla" or "xaadsan" or any other SOMALI name. Yu chose *Susan* hehehe -- are you x-tian? i'm muslim that is why i'm "Ahmad" -- now, if you're x-tian...couldn't yah find a name like *susan* in somali? maybe suuban? don't worry -- i'm only joking with you! Forgive me!


Peace, Ahmad!

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hebel

Unrecorded Date
Oh oh the FBI is coming the FBI is coming

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Muudeey

Unrecorded Date
abu-susan ee ku dheheen,walee inaa aqliga ka wasan tahay,suusan ku lahaa...sambaka beel,bal muu SUUBAN dhoho....saxariir u dhimo!
Gaal aa la gudin oow soo raali naqa na lee yahay,cimrigaa gaabay!!!....war wexee mareekan nagu sameeye oosuu yiri Apologies

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hebel

Unrecorded Date
ar muudeey odey goblan ah sidiis aa habaar ka bixi weesee xay tahay abuu-cumarkii maa kuu gali waayi?

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Muudeey

Unrecorded Date
Hebel

Xaad ii udaa,mugaan abuu-cumar xiraayo maadho gacalo???..ye anigu qoxooti qaajo iyo qaboob dishey maahi,gablane eebihii samaa aa iga koriye oo siyeed muluq aa ii joogo:

xanfarey
xaayoow
macoow
maano
gacal
garasoow
colaad
cambareey

Gudoone waa gebertii ii ilmo dhashey ee cayuulkaa ku hadleey.Halyahoow injirta badan

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nationalist

Unrecorded Date
abusosan

america send their best and most trained soldiers they have to somalia to fight with us
i was there and fought with them we were about 15 and they were 3500 and 21 helicopters and another almost 5000 other troops who were supporting them we taught a lesson that despite the number and weapons you can be defeeted by a brave soldier who does not turn back that lesson america put in their constituion that they will never be involved in somali war we killed almost 70 but they only tell 40 we shot down four helicopters but they admit only 2 and each of these worth 30 miilion dollar some of them were so called un shootable

so we somalis are those who reach when peace is coming and no one elsse can defy that

american they called for peace and rally for shikhs and then killed them and that was naked aggresion

so the one who is saying we have to apolgise we are saying they have to remmber us for what valuable lesoon we tought

those of you think that america is all that they are •••• and they are going down now
so the power is somali it was it is now and it will be

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hebel

Unrecorded Date
aar muudeey haduus siyeed muluq rabigeen fajaq kugu siiyay xaad la habaartamee ood ii habaaree?
yaahuu aan ku iri isku bax oo hoostaa la hel qandho la dacay dheertee sidii mukulaal rati ku roogsadaad ban ka wareegee hadiid isku key soo qaadqaadid.
nabadaa gal odey ani xabo iga qaadi meysid ee yaanan sidii giringo gafuurka kaa tumin
imaba taqaanidee hee day.

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enough Intelligent

Unrecorded Date
To: Nationalist,


I think you are the looser!
If I just ask you a very simple question "what do you think have americans brought to your country?" just simple.
Americans were deployed into Somalia by just only one reason and that was the starvation happening in your home land to which you had to cause to your fellow Somali people to suffer.
If you are familliar with what we call Algebraic mathmatics or even American constiution-according to your pointing that out earlier- read the math book called (Elementry algebra), especially the the ratio chapters I beleave, then you will see what the huminity is, this book was written by Bitinger Alenbogen and I beleave it is the either third or fourth aditoin;therefore, you may have the concepts of what the reponsibilities are at least.
In 1992, it was really very hard and disgusting to watch what was going on in Somalia as a results or consequences of hunger, starvation, war,kidnaping,raping,killing, looting and many other serious crimes of senseless preservitive actions caused by irrisponsible people who could not have any mental and intelligent capability to manage the normal standard life of their society,by that reason was what had driven many troops out of their countries in order to just restore hope in Somalia;unfortunately, it did not happen, because you and your fellows were hindering those troops and humanitranian supporters out of their hands and you put their lives in danger as well as many other Somalians.Nonetheless, you were eliminating both foriegners and native people out of nothing, then right after the war you fled behind them to seek refuge into their countries and use their advanced thecnology like coputers, isn't that really very shameful to you guy?!
America was right to save many lives as much as they could and they will be, and we will help them to reach that goal as long as they are doing the right thing, every human person who is in sanity will support that,too.
Until later,take care of your self.

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fardofuul.

Unrecorded Date
I think I can answer ""what do you think have americans brought to your country?"

Nothing! Except with our eyes open, they blasted BUUR HAKABO and melted it only to fill it in MILITARY TRAILERS and ship it to the United States. Also BACAD CELINTII SHALMBOOD is gone too. They also melted and shipped it to United States to make glasses and help boost their SILICON VALLEY industry. Because the somali soil is pure and full of silicon. It is heated to a degree untill the element silicon bonds together to make a sizable thick iron. From there on we have something called wafers which is the mother of the microchips. So called enough-intelligent is using the looted SOMALI SOIL IN HIS/HER computer and and doesn't even know it. Sick with tribalism is what blinds people like enough intelligent to the facts that kids were being killed for nothing by so called SKIN HEADS in the American and Canadian military. And we know what the belgian troops did in kismayo too. I say good riddance to fags. The day the troops arrived bay region in the name of humanity came along christian missionary with their own radio calling people to christ and their radio on board one of the American carriers CAN YOU BELIEVE THAT?. They also looted children from their parents never to return and their parents are striken with the knowledge that their children are gone. They can only pray to allah as our prophet JACOB " I only tell Allah my grievance and sadness" joseph. Enough intelligent, I think your user name down plays your acute shortage of intelligence and enjoy the used car and the little macmacaan while you can it won't be long before you realize who you really are?. Maryooleey labo xabbo ingiriis intey barteen qabyaalad xabadka fariisatey bey gaal taaginda ka kadiya maantoo idil daba dhilfeeyaan. Daba dhilifnimada meeshey idinka soo saarto aan aragno.

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Anonymous

Unrecorded Date
Thick-head fardofuul,

Go on with your fairy tale nacas. So americans looted bacaadkii, buurihii, birtii to make computers. While your hero mr. Caydiid was busy saving starving and war molested somalis in their millions):):!

Adduunkaan maxaan xawayaan kasta oo jaahil qabiiliste ah ku aragnay.

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Somali

Unrecorded Date
I wonder who is the right one of you? you all look smart but hardly to agree with each other.
Don't blame americans for whatever reason they came they came for their interest. It is you who can not figure out what is good or bad for your selves. Something is for sure 15 people could not and can defeat the most powerful army in the world. The reality is that America did not want to save somalia or somalians. The reality is we somalians caused all the suferring to our nation and people. We should apologize to each other before we apologize to Americans. We need to grow up before it is too late.

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Anonymous

Unrecorded Date
Tell to your mother !!!!!!!!!!

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MAD MAC

Unrecorded Date
Comrades
I too fought in Somalia. On the American side. First I'd like to say to nationalist. Here are the numbers - they're unclassified and with some research you can confirm. Americans killed in Somalia from Combat and accidents: 44. Helicopters shot down: 5. Of these, two successfully made it back to friendly gound. One was shot down in Iamer Weyne on 25 September. Your "victory" was truly a pyhric one. Haber Gedir casualties were in the thousands. The SNA was financially bled white. As Mark Bowden accurately points out - the ship of goodwill has sailed and it won't be coming back. Somalia has effectively written itself off the map. I bear my former adversaries no grudge. That fight is over.

Now for Susan. Somalia doesn't owe the US an apology and apology or no I suspect the chances of the US sending troops back to Somalia is around 0%. When the UN went there it was spending in excess of two billion dollars a year. This was money that was going into the Somali economy and had the potential to stimulate economic growth. In short, you had the goose that laid the golden egg and you killed it.

Lastly for Fadofuul
The notion that the US was stealing minerals out of Buur Hakaba or anywhere else is beyond ludicrous. There's nothing special about Somali sand and the oil reserves haven't been tapped. In short, US decision making to deploy troops to Somalia was driven by the media coverage of the famine. President Bush was under enormous pressure to act from a population which did not think through the consequences of the action. Everything isn't a dark conspiracy. Your Somali culture has given you a pessimism that in this particular case is unwarranted.

Nabad Gelyo

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Qumayo

Unrecorded Date
to hebel.

adigu afka qabaalka meel walba sidaa u soo dhig hoogyey..walee taad sirtaa hoogtey.


peace and luv.

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Adam

Unrecorded Date
I think you guys need to stop blaming America for Somalia's Problems I am a US born Citizen and my parents are from Somalia. I am so ashamed to call somalia my country because of all the hunger and disease. I am so tierd of people saying that they beat America because they didn't, all they did was shoot down a few helicopters and killed a few soilders. I was young at the time but I am 16 now and I know that America did not loose to such a third world country as Somalia because America is the richest and most powerful nation in the World and Somalia is the opposite. I really think we owe them an apology and we should beg back for their help because there is no one else that can help Somalia get of its feet.


And for all of you "flight 13" people who keep putting America down I think they were wrong to bring you in this great country and give you a fucken "Green Card" as they call them I wouldn't know cause I never had one. If you so have a problem with the US I think you should go back to Somalia and stop taking welfare because you are wasting our tax dollars.

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ahmad

Unrecorded Date
asalama `alaykum muslims,

adam,

HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAH! lol! ask if somalis need yer american behind! NA-UH! we don't need ya! who said we have 'problems' with U.S.??? we DON'T! we are here -- and we are staying...eat a knife!

and, FYI, we DID beat the american govt. please ask -- are we even close in power? we are in third world -- were with NO government and NO power of anykind...but we kicked the americans OUT. that tells yah we beat them, doesn't it? we're not today any kind of 'american colony' -- which, by the way, was what america was hoping for. to be the 'protector' of that really 'poor' country that needs so much 'protection' hurrah! i only have this to say; BBOOO HOOO!


peace - ahmad!

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MAD MAC

Unrecorded Date
Ahmad
You've been chewing too much Khat again. Yes, our government quite in it's effort to restore some sort of governing body to Somalia. You're high if you think America wanted to colonise Somalia. That's just ridiculous. And obviously Somalia is one of the poorest and least cohesive nations on the planet. Even as you and I debate this YET AGAIN a large portion of your people are starving. Lastly, unless you are Ogadeni, the rest of the Darood political leadership - Mohamed Abshir, Abdullahi Yusuf, Mahamed Said Hersi, all supported the US intervention - although Yusuf later voiced some reservations. And Omar Jess was simply a lacky for Aideed so it's not like his opinion counted for much anyway. Did you force the Americans out? No. Did our political leadership loose its will. Yep. And do you know why? Because the American people said the entire population of Somalia is not worth a single American life. Screw 'em. We're out outta here. The ship of good will has sailed dude. It ain't coming back. All I've got is a little row boat.

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analyzer

Unrecorded Date
yeah..yeah..somalia will bounce
back with or without the help of the US because the US did not create the problem in the first place. so until we solve our problems while some of us think it is all conspiracy on the west or blame others, don't think we are desperate or anything.... as a nation, we exist, live and have normal lives despite the circumstances of the prolonged war....
by the way, a large portion of somalis are proud nomads and live as their ancestors lived for centuries.. huh? "the ship of good will has sailed dude..." man... that is just demeaning... wait and see.... please don't tell me about the manuplative lies that american politicians use to get their political strategies on.... weren't they interested in berbera around the late 80's.. just to name one and since the cold war smoothed out, they lost much of the interest.... they were just playing do it my way or i will force you to... and when the american public realized they were killing instead of helping the needy, it became an issue of bad policy and to avoid further embarrasment they pulled out... anyway, some of my brothers & sisters have different perspectives on some of the issues.... some go way back in the 60's... some put the blame solely on siad barre even what's happening today and they have some supporting evidences that are both logical and researchable.. whatever problems we have its ours.. and i object to your offensive and covert perceptions that we need the US to help our country...so get it mad caw... hhmm comprende..

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MAD MAC

Unrecorded Date
Analyzer
Interesting. A little hard to follow although I think your bottom line was Somalias problems are for Somalia to solve and the US should butt out. Well, that's the way it's been for the last 5 plus years. That solution doesn't seem to be working any better than when the US butted in. Anyway, that leaves the question open, what now? How does Somalia establish a government that can facillitate normal trade relations, provide security and so forth?

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ahmad

Unrecorded Date
asalama alaykum muslims,

mac,

brother, i respect you -- but you know NOTHING about your government. u.s. govt. is a government that would LITERALLY sale its people to have power over the world. some place where they have NO power over is east africa. it would be ALOT of advantage for american 'power' to have some sort of leg dizzed in that area. what would be the opportunity to do such thing? USE the poor somalis and ethiopians. however, ethiopia point plank will NEVER surrender to america or its powers. however, far beyond...is the somalis. they will never be part of any kind of 'colony'. and NO, mac -- you don't need to be a 'colonly' but a "COLONY". like israel -- a leg...in the sand for all the fish to see.(YES, mac -- fish sees through the shore sands. it does! hehehe!)

believe it or NOT, same thing was said about israel. 'no, our tax is not worth of the stinking jews,' etc etc etc. however, i believe the american people did a GOOD thing...for both somalia and america.


peace - ahmad

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observer so

Unrecorded Date
It seems to me Somalia is beyond salvation.The terminal disease that killed Somalia is in an advanced stage.Somalis failed to make the apportunity the US and other nations availed to them.The disease that have destroyed Somalia is tribalism.racism,discrimination,hollow clan supremists feelings,greed,bad recycled leader,genecidal mentality of some clan warlords.At the beggining of the collapse of the Somali nation state.Warlords like Eideed,Abdirahman Tour and others annexed lands outside their traditional homelands.The reason of their early gains is simple.They were armed to the teeth by war criminal Mengusto,they also loathed large amount of arms from the Somali national army.The impasse you see now is as a result of a military stalemate.No war lord has the military power to capture and retain large chunks of the country.They also lack the support of the people in the areas they annexed.Case in point a newly formed ragtag army (RRA) routed Eideed moryan from Baidawa quiete very easily, they enjoyed no support from the local people.Eideed moryan abused,raped,mass murdered the indigenous,peaceful people of Baidawa.Eideed moryan are recently on the run and being hunted down by very popular RRA.Finally i would like to say that Somalis awe the American people an apology.

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analyzer

Unrecorded Date
mad man,
of course, my writing is a little hard to follow just as much as the somali politics....what do you think we are discussing here? monica lewinsky....
on the other hand, your question...how does Somalia establish a government that can facilitate normal trade relations, provide security and so forth?...is the million dollar question that have haunted many Somalis for a decade....and frankly, our leaders have not figured that out yet....shame on them!!! for the rest of us, we are waiting and waiting and waiting....... HOPE NEVER DIES IN THE HORN OF AFRICA.... as our ancestors have adopted and overcame the harsh environment we call homeland for centuries....so nowadays, it does not bother me as much now that i look from that angle...i simlply see it(the whole crisis) as another environmental obstacle to deal with...and being said that, we are going to overcome...i can not honestly say when and/or how, but it will end...peace
p.s. your interest in Somalia amazes me dude, so stretch a little and be patient as Somalis are if you wanna see Somalia come back to normal state...

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analyzer

Unrecorded Date
here is an apology to america... sorry that you got involved and thanks for nothing....and the aid they provided is in return of those casaulties they have inflicted upon the innocent people in muqdisho...so beat it...
that is the way i see it and that is the way it ought to be is the typical somalian individual warlord's motto...comprimising is not on the agendas presented on all Somali reconciliation conferences...and that's why they all have failed...i think! SO until then for those who are fortunate enough, train for marathon or seek a Ph.d or something and keep your dreams and hopes alive...never forget about your roots ...peace

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MAD MAC

Unrecorded Date
Analyzer
You ought to be a stand up comedian. The Somali version of Jeff Foxworthy. You kill me.

While I agree that we killed a lot of people in Somalia you have to keep in mind they were trying to kill us. So let's be reasonable here. I'm not looking for an apology - but no one should be looking for one from me either.

Ahmad
Brother, I don't mean any disrespect, I respect you, but you don't know anything about the American Government. American policy has less to do with power projection (Madeleine "Bombsight" Albright not withstanding) and more to do with three central ideas. Idea one - we will use force to defend critical economic interest. Note here I said critical vice any. Somalia would fall into the any category. We are trying to push a doctrine which says that democracy is vital to world stability and free markets are a positive influence for world economic growth. The media can sometimes force us to take action (military or otherwise) to intervene in a crises where we really have no interests (witness Somalia) and just as quickly force us to reture (witness Somalia again).

Do you know how much the US pays attention to Somalia? Zilch, Zero, the American people and government wouldn't even notice if Somalia broke off the horn and sank into the Indian ocean. I am the only white boy who gives a ••••. You're talking to him now. There aren't any more. The rest of my compatriots - veterans of the Somali scene - think I'm nuts for even contemplating going back. I have found a few adventurers who are willing to go back with me but it's not because they love Somalia, it's because it sounds like something cool to do. The Somalis who are going back with me - now they love Somalia.

I noted with interest the opening line from the president of Djibouti (I can not remember that august personages name) at the peace conference "The eyes of the world are on you." The world isn't paying even the slightest attention.

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ahmad

Unrecorded Date
asalama alaykum muslims,

mac,

HAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA! likewise, the u.s. govt....paid NO attention whatsoever to holocaust -- because...in the end, it was their prize. a leg must be REALLY broken...to be able to re-straighten it...to put itself in the sand. however, u.s. government doesn't know that we smell the coffie in OUR sleep -- and do not have to wake up to smell it, at all. ;)


peace - ahmad

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MAD MAC

Unrecorded Date
Of course you don't have to wake up to smell the coffee. You get so little coffee in Somalia that if someone starts brewing some everyone will smell it. Unfortunately what most people smell in Mogsdischu is the city itself.

Now to say the US government paid no attention to the holocaust is not completely fair. At first they did not have good situational awareness of the holocaust. Once they did they were already trying to overun Germany (we were at with them) and the Germans were fighting back. What really was inexcusable was during the pre-war years when Jews tried to emigrate to America and we turned them away. That is cause for national shame. And that in a nut shell explains better than anything else our unfettered commitment to the state of Israel. Of course on that subject the Arabs couldn't have misplayed their hand more if they tried. Nevertheless, incompetence not withstanding, the Palestinians really got a raw deal which we are still trying to unscrew.

Kind of reminds me of a line from PJ O'Rourke. The Israelis have just as many complaints as everyone else in the region - which is to say a lot. And they're just as much in the right as eveyone else - which is to say they're shits.

Anyway, I ain't sayin' American policy is perfect. If it were perfect I wouldn't be here right now I'd be home in the arms of my girlfriend. What I am saying is its not colonialistic, economic or otherwise. That idea is passe and ain't driven the train.

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ahmad

Unrecorded Date
asalama `alaykum muslims,

mac,

please -- read history. what exactly did america do to stop the holocaust????? they didn't know? OH PUHLEEEEEZZZZ! the ZOA(The Zionist Organization of America) and the WZO(The World Zionist Organization) -- did everything in their power to help it REACH every american...what was happening to the jewish people. however, the govt. looked the other way. please note -- the holocaust did not happen over-night...na-uh!

when america got around to help the jews, it was an american issue -- not jewish issue or humanity issue. not at all. people blame hitler for doing a horrible crime against jews -- i blame the world powers...who sat around and did nothing. i solute the british -- for it was against their own interest...but were willing to help. however, i always believe...we can learn from our mistakes -- and humans CAN make a difference...with lessons well learned.

peace - ahmad!

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MAD MAC

Unrecorded Date
Saahib
I was a history major. European. WW II was my specialty. Allow me to retort. The "Holocaust" that is the wholesale slaughter of jews began in 1941 when the decision to enact the final solution was decided upon at the Wannsee conference. Although it was obvious the Jews were being persecuted, it was not obvious they were being exterminated. Now you have to keep it in historical context. The Jews were persecuted in Europe for a very long time, with numerous pograms and the like throught the centuries. By the time we were aware that there was a holocaust ongoing the war was on.
Now the British and the Russians are the two countries you really have to give the most credit to for winning WW II, although the USA comes in a close 3rd. The British kept the war alive when it would have been easy for them to back out in late '49 and early '41. The Russians had to suck it up against the Wehrmacht for 3 years before we finally could open a significant front against the Germans in France. (I'm leaving the Far East out of this because it's not germaine to the holocaust).
Now the British didn't fight the Germans to save the Jews. They fought to defend their country against a VERY AGGRESSIVE European power that most assuredly would have looked to dominate them when opportunity struck. They were definately defending self-interest, although in 1940 some people thought Churchill should accept Hitlers peace offer.
That brings us to the US. We also fought the Germans out of Self-Interest, not to save the Jews. That doesn't mean we approved of what the NS regime was doing to them. It simply means that WW II was not a humanitarian relief operation. We were fighting to preserve our way of life.
As I stated before, I great shame was in not allowing the Jews to come to the US during the pogroms of the 30s. At that time we were in no position with our tiny Army (130,000 men) to project power into Europe. The Europeans screwed the pooch - including the British, by failing to invade Germany when the Germans violated the treaty of Versaille and occupied the Rhineland in 1936. At that time the Wehrmacht was weak and the German Generals were seriously considering removing Hitler from power if the allies had resisted. Allas that did not happen - to the detriment of all.
Blaming anyone other than the perpertrator for what happened in Germany is like blaming a guy for having his car stolen because he left the key in the ignition. Was he stupid? Yep. But at the end of the day it was the car thief who stole the car. Who's hand do you chop off, the dumbass for leaving the keys in his car or the guy who ripped it off. To me this is a no brainer.

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analyzer

Unrecorded Date
sacca waalan or mad cow,
let me interrupt your history preachings..for a moment....i took western civilizations courses about two years ago and i swear don't remember a crap about it, so that will give you an idea of how uninterested i am about both history and the west....i wish sometimes i remembered some of it only when watching jeopardy to impress my little woman...that's it..cut the beep out and answer your rhetorical question that you have so intelligently implied like you knew the answer.... how does somalia establish a gov. that blah..blah..blah...? if your answer is not satisfactory...you won't be able to pass this grade...and you will be banned visiting somalia for life... you know we don't beleive in social promotion...like here in america...so do your homework and be stressed out....and make sure..your superiors notice the pressure you are under....peace...

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MAD MAC

Unrecorded Date
Analyzer
Now that's a REALY TOUGH question. The last one was easy but this one. Oh man. Look, I'm a smart guy, but they call me an intelligence analyst. If I knew everything they'd call me Mr know-it-all. But since I am the one advocating return - it's a fair enough question. OK here goes:

First, we have to start small. Get established. My plan for that is to select a community along the coast somewhere not too far (driving distance ) from Hamer. Now originally I liked Jasira, but now that Muse Sudi and Abdi Hassan Awale (my old friend Qeybdid - we use to be close you know) have built a port there it's likely to be crawling with all sorts of unavory charecters. So let's move on. We'll need another location and I'm not sure what the best choice is right now. Barawe has some appeal but it's too far from Mog so I have to chew on that. But for the sake of argument here, let's assume that we find the spot. Prior to actually going there we pimp USAID and the German government for assistance - this will not be hard to do. I have three critical aid projects in mind for our newly selected community. One is a wind generator. This generator will provide electricity for the town - and for the base camp. Now as anyone who has spent anytime along the coast of Somalia knows, the wind blows all the time. Next is Water, we need a USAID project to get running water in the town and waste water disposal. Lastly is roads. I prefer cobblestone because cut stone is cheap in Somalia and cobblestone is labor intensive - this means work and puts money into the community. The money came from USAID or Charity donors which I will pimp. Once that is done we ought to be reasonably popular with the locals. I have a German friend who also wants to build a clinic as well. The Critical role for MACs folks is security - so the Moryan don't steall everything that isn't nailed down. That's where MAC comes in. I can train people and I have friends who can train people so we can protect our progress. This completes phase one.
That leads us to phase two. Now we need an ambassador without portfolio. I think the best choice would be General Gallal, but I could be wrong here. I will need Somali input. I'm convinced it needs to be a Somali who is not despised by any group. It does not have to be a man of stature, just a man of letters - a smart and PATIENT man. Then, along with his advisers (like MAC) he will start to negotiate with the power brokers of Somalia. This will be a long and grueling affair. We start in Hamer because as Hamer goes so will go the rest of Somalia. It's the psychological and economic center of Somali recovery - regardless of what the Darood and ••••• say. Once an agreement is reached in Hamer (and this could take some time) then we start slowly incorporating the rest. Start with the RRA, then move on to the SPM, then head north and bring in the SSDF. The last step will be reintegration of Somaliland. This will take about three years - in my humble estimation. Then I am going home and I'm finished with this ••••. No more soldiering for me. I hope that answers your question saahib.

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ahmad

Unrecorded Date
asalama alaykum muslims,

mac,

your fantasy has one down side -- you are not a somali. somalis will never trust you...as a "advisor". they never trusted those before you -- WHO financially helped the country rise much less a military guy...who is not even free to do what he 'wants' to do.

and you seem to forget that somalis are not on each other's throats anymore. they simply like the governmentless motion they are in. for them, the last fire STILL burns in their minds...that a 'govt' obviously won't cut it to them. i think, somalia will be the first successful NON-governmental country. right now, they would be -- except the world doesn't trust them to be without a 'parent'(govt.) and, as a somali, who recently have been there, i can tell you that the world is wrong, big time. somalis survive without a law -- perfectly. you know what they need? they need a tribal based sorta government -- that would DEFINITELY satisfy them, deeply. however, i say that...because we are still on what i call "the 40 years grace period" -- where we must wander...in the desert and survive -- and repent, and redeem, and return...and exile and confuse and go sane and insane at the same time. now, how is that for a spooky side of me? heheeh!(and, no, caraweelo...far be it from me to give you any novel ideas!) ;D


peace - ahmad!

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MAD MAC

Unrecorded Date
Ahmad
I don't know dude. It seems to me that the anarchic system now, while not the presence of War, is also the absence of peace. Would you want to rais e a family in a place like that? But I do think you're onto something with this idea of tribal based government. I'm just not smart enough to put it into form - at least not alone. Let me think about this one and consult with some of my advisers.
You can win trust. Even a gaal. Maybe esspecially a gaal. Because I do not belong to a clan. If I were Darood then the •••••• would be suspicious of me. If I were Majertain, the the Ogadeni would be suspicious of me. If I were Rahanweyne, then the •••••• would be suspicious of me. If I were Abgal..... Well, I'm sure you follow me. I think no matter what you are in Somali politics people will be suspicious of you. I knew an old Jalaaf woman who was in Mog in 93. SHE was suspicious of me and it took half a year before she finally came to one of my Somali parties. It was like pulling teeth. I'll just have to prove myself. Keep a consistent line, treat people well, and eventually they'll realize you are what you say you are.

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hebel

Unrecorded Date
can we all just..........get along?

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analyzer

Unrecorded Date
mad mac,
i am extremely disappointed in you....i am more disappointed on the way you simply underestimated the entire country......dude, here is where you exited the freeway...."..select a community along the coast line...." and as i understand attract people with usaid or what? german....god!!!that's it man....who are those (somali)freinds of yours who completely mislead you...or you simply reached your conclusion based on what you have seen during the heavy fight around 1993...do you beleive the saying THINGS ARE NOT WHAT THEY ALWAYS SEEM..we would not need a penny from anyone if the conflict is over...you need an understanding of the social structure of somalis that you obviously lack...why do i always sense in most of your writings offensive to my homeland man? because you don't know a jack about our history, way of life, apparently nothing about the conflict that brought you there in the first place...let me say you are alright but you are ideas are a century overdue.... try again and please cut that stuff about getting help from the west from your writings on this topic or else? i will have to not respond to you ever......peace...
what's up hebel...wadaad baa noqotay saaxiib...

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MAD MAC

Unrecorded Date
Analyzer
I need the help from the west to establish my own operation. I do not have the financial resources to do it alone. If you E-Mail me I'll explain the details. I think it's obvious I can't just move into Mog and set up shop.
I'll bet I know FAR more about Somali history, the cause of the civil war and the social structure than you think I do. I am NOT your average gaal. Of course, you ask 5 Somalis why the war started and you'll get five different answers. But I have a good grasp of what went on in Somalia. You made up your mind before the questions started that an American couldn't possibly have a good idea when it comes to Somalia. If you desire a more rapid exchange on this E-Mail me at:
comsforma3@sarajevo.5sigcmd.army.mil

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analyzer

Unrecorded Date
thanx for the offer mad cow,
since i can not offer neither any financial support nor my time to my country whether humanitarian or otherwise....i won't discuss this topic on a personal level with ya...peace

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MAD MAC

Unrecorded Date
Fair enough. Nabad Gelyo.

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