     Sharaf (Public user) | Unrecorded Date
Is it the message or the messenger?
Should locations be considered?
Who should have the especial preveleges to write relevent/irrelevent posting in these forumss?
Do age and marriage status be revealed?
Should Qabil be allowed in the discussion forumss?
Opinions please!
Common grounds are important I suppose.
Sharaf |
| Jama (Public user) | Unrecorded Date
What do mean bro or sis? |
| Suban (Public user) | Unrecorded Date
Sharaf, thank you so much for raising this issue.
Personally, I beleive in having a mature discussion on any topic without personalizzing it by name calling or insulting the perosn who proposed a subject. One is always free from debating if a subject is not to his her liking. I don't think one should discuss qabiil, since it is a sensitive subject. Religion, also should not be mis-used, but rather shared to inform ourselves of what is expected. Having said this, people are not equally knowledgable about the quran al kariim and the haddiths of the prophet (scw); and the best way to pass on the message is in a non judgemental way, without antagonizing people. Religion should not be used to silence adult people, if they chose to discuss issue in a secular way. An important thing to remeber is to respect the other person's opinion and debate the issue.The other day, I proposed a subject, and the backlash was funny. It surprised me how some people are unable to differrentiate between issues and personalities. There is a book called "Difficult Conversations", I will share some of it next time. The worst thing is using foul language. When some one uses foul language, I always think that their parents did not bring them up well.
The guidelines of Somalinet is very good.
We should remeber the following:
1. Repect people's opinion
2. Debate the issue and not the person (afterall, you don't know the person).
3. Abstain from contributing if all you have is insults and personal attacks.
4. Again, focus, focus, focus on the topic and not the person.
Well, that is all for now. |
| Didiid (Public user) | Unrecorded Date
Sharaf:
Here are my two cents.
1. 'Qabil, should be banned all together from the forums, reason being that it's a divisive Issue.
2. Any body can post any thing under the sun, unless it violets the guidelines set by the Administration. It's upto the indivitual not visit topics he/she doesn't like but if you do stick to issue.
3. Debate has to center around the message not the messanger.
4. As for Age, Marriage Status & Location it's the individual's choice if he/she wants to reveal it, Otherwise it's a previlaged info. If you want to reveal info of another, have the courtesy to get permission first. |
| Delug (Public user) | Unrecorded Date
I think any kind of discussion should be allowed as long as it conforms to the rules established by the network administrators. Moreover, I think "Tribalisam" and religion are OK discussions if and if and only we don't impose our ideologies and believe upon others. |
| Sharaf (Public user) | Unrecorded Date
Hi all, thanks for the brilliant feedbacks.
Jama: I'm one of the frequent visitors of SomaliNet's discussion forumss. Most often I see people who have trouble coming across a different opinion. These individuals sometimes, declare war with their oponents. And since this's only virtual basis, insult and other forms of anger becomes imminent. God knows what would happened had this been a coffee shop. Again, this results everyone to ommit/skip a good issue just for an unhealthy ending. I for one, do not like watching dog-fights so, I do similarly:-)
Dear Jama, my objectives in creating this perticular topic is HOW WE CAN FIND A WAY TO DICSCUSS ISSUES WITHOUT PERSONALIZING/INSULTING OR BEING TOTALLY IRRELEVENT.
Just one other note Jama, I'm a male:-)
Suban: my pleasure walaashiis. I'm sure you have listed down all the basic elements required to acquire a healthy discussion. However, on the religion part, I have couple points to state.
1- In the West, religion is simply some services of God, a worship to the supernatural. It's just another Daljirka Dahsoon (statue), you solute and give'm all the tribute when you are young without knowing what's inside there, and later in life you would realize it's just for some dude who's got killed first. Given that the battle field story was really a hell of one, you might not be interested to hear about it more than once. Western would rather be secular!
2- In our world supposedly, Islam is not only a name but a way of life and a principle that covers every aspect of our social stracture. It then, becomes an insepreble subject of all time. It could be my lack of knowledge but I prefer people who do not screen out others in the name of god.
Diid: Good points there.
About SomalNet guidlines, I think they would welcome our veiws in case we might want a change in the giudelines. After all, they created it for us and we might want our way not theirs.
Delug: I see what you mean. About qabiilka, lakin what's there in it to talk about other than insults and blames? I think it should be banned for now until we are educated on how to talk about it. We are to this point where every time a national issue is raised a qabil becomes inevitable matter and distroys the optimum goal.
Lastly, Somalis have a culture which they consider a good one but I think needs to be shaped a bit. Well, I noticed that there's a trade off between religion and somali culture and again culture and science...it's confusing and inconsistent as well and that's why issues are scrumbling.
Well, one line led to another, next time I'll make it short and precise I hope:-)
Nabad iyo xiise dambe!
Sharaf |
| Badgal (Public user) | Unrecorded Date
waa idin salaamay...
haddaan ku darsado fikradeyda topic-gaan, sida eey ila tahay...
-tayada iyo wanaaga uu lahaan karo topic-kasta oo la soo jeediyo , wey adag tahay in fikrad isku mid ah laga qaato ama on that matter nabad galyo uu ku dhamaado.Maxaa yeelay xoriyadda uu qof walba u haysto Cyber-ka in uu soo dhex-dabaalan karo awgeed, waxeey ila tahay price-ka xoriyadaas waa in uu noqdaa "dulqaad" yeelad qof walba u diyaar garoobo....
-"how to debate" aniga waxeey ila tahay , xataa maamulayaasha SomaliNet ey ku jiraan , in ey aad u adagtahay in leysku raaco. laakiin, somalinet maamulkeeda ayaa go'aanka dambe leh....
-"how to debate" waxaan qabaa bacdamaa ey somali yihiin , dadka dooda yeelanaayo in wax badan oo dhaqanka iyo diinta ku saabsan aan isku raaci karno ilaa xad...
-midda ku saabsan in shaqsinimo leysku attack-go, aad ayeey u foolxuntahay oo taas leyskuma diidana, but anyone of us knows very well , when we raise a topic that is controversial in somali culture like qabiil etc, that he/she would faced a backlash, laakiin waxaan qabaa arin kasta in laga hadli karo, mar hadii somalinet maamulkeeda eey kugu qabsan qudubadooda...
maanta waa iga intaas |
| AMRAN M. (Public user) | Unrecorded Date
Asalaamu********Caleykum
Salaan Kadib Akhiyaarta:
aan anigana fikradeyda gaaban wax kaga darsadee there are two important things to be careful with debating: SELECTING A TOPIC AND THE DELIVERY
SELECTING TOPIC:
in many of our communicating situations, we are asigned a speaking topic. for example if a friend asks us about a certain person he or she would like to date, we have in effect been assigned to speak about this person, or if we are asked how to change a tire, we have been given a topic we know something to talk abut so we can usually give plenty of details about it. Thus, we hadve little difficulty responding or speaking in informal settings because the subject of our writing is often chosen for us; however, in a formal speaking situation, we often have to choose the subject and we do not need to be embarrassed by selecting a topic that seems silly or unimportant to our readers like (qabiil, personal attacks and so on) So we need to ask our selves four major essential questions before we select a topic.
1)Is the subject matter interesting to you?
2)Will the subject mattter be interesting to the readers?
3)What general purpose are you trying to meet by giving the talk or the writting?
4)what is the specific purpose of the topic?
THE DELIVERY:
always remember, readers are not passive receptacles for your words. They are actively involved into the process of encoding and decoding and sending and recieving at the same time you are writing or speaking.readers perceive, to some degree, both What is said and How it is said so let us feel what we say while we are saying it.
As I mentioned in another topic there is a saying that says
Your Attitude not Your Aptitude will Determine Your Altitude......
intaas aan uga baxay cafis wixii aan qaldey |
| Delug (Public user) | Unrecorded Date
Hey Sharaf, you are right that any National issue raised could be problematic because of the political nature in Somalia especially when Qabiil is concerned. I think it is because people put more emphasis on the negative side of it. If we change a little bit the way in which we view this "hot" topic of "Qabiil" we might start getting some solutions to how we can get rid off it or how we can use it in a positive way.
I definitely feel that the majority is educated on Qabiil but don't want to admit it because they use it for their own benefit. Ego has much to do with it, whereby people never want to admit their flows and feel compelled to support the wrongs of their "leadership". It is difficult to find people who will agree to disagree. That is why, I think it gets personal and often people attack each other verbally. I hope that this will be raised in this discussion board and we will have constructive dialog on this matter which will lead as to a better understanding of what it means to belong to a tribe and yet be Somalis.
I am an advocate of free expression but oppose people who get out of control in debates and start using, insult, profanity, and vulgarity "whatever" to get their point across. As such, I agree with you on the point that may be this is not the right time to talk about Qabiil. Therefore, we ought to wait until the majority shows some kind of credibility in addressing this matter in a way that is acceptable to the public; and hopefully will not create a controversy. |
| AnonX (Public user) | Unrecorded Date
Sharaf and all: Thanx for this thread.
I think the best way to have a good environment would be if Somalinet or the regular visitors of the forums educate people about healthy discussions. Many of us do not know the difference between debate and argument, messenger and message, statistics and ideology, science and believes ...
Qabiil Talk! I am against qabiil talk because of the following reasons:
1- All other discussion places like soc.culture.somalia and guestbooks became ghost towns after Somalis started to talk about clan business. Many people who looked like very intellectual on other subjects became qabiil advocates when their clan leaders have been acused of genocide or something in that nature.
2- Somalis are Somalis and the people you see here in the forums are no exception. Many of us will defend a cold blooded killer because of their clan affiliation. To me, all the warlords including their father Afka Haji are a bunch of criminals, but to many others these same people are their saviors and heroes! One example, two of the the most hated Somalis (Morgan/Aidid) happened to be idols for thousands of Somalis. (kaftan: hadda qaar badan oo idnka mida qabiilkeyga ayey ku fakarayaan laba clues na way heleen, anti Aidid, Ani Morgan!) Talk to any Somali and he/she will tell you that his/her warlord is the only one who is on the right path.
Now comes the irony! Qabiil works in Somalia and people get killed and raped because of their clans. Everyone in Somalia is compelled to be involved in clan politics one way or another.
So where do we cross the line?
If we say lets talk about Somalia politics and Mr. Y comes in and reads Ms. X's article in which she concluded that Somalia is in this anarchy because of the actions of warlord Z and his militia. Then Mr. Y tells us that warlord Z is the savior of Somalia and he likes him so much, he even has his potrait on the wall. Then Ms X comes back and says you are defending this criminal only because he is your cousin. It is a matter of time before Mr. Y comes back and says "You know what? you don't appreciate the good heart of our savior because you probably belong to clan A or clan B". To add more fuel to the fire, the place is public! Every clan worrier will add more insult to the injury. I agree with Somalinet for isolating this disease!
I think there are two ways to discust Somali politics:
1 - Private group - Let all politics lovers have their own private discussion group. In this case, the members will be limited to only those who don't see things from their clan's prespective.
2- Creating a new organization which is against all clan based factions. I would be the first one to contribute to this new faction:-)
Anon, the X. |
| Herzi (Public user) | Unrecorded Date
Hello,
This seems to be a nice discussion. Firstly I think that discussing clan related issues is warranted. There is no point in trying to ban anything. Banning clan related topics only shows a total capitulation to its evils. We cannot just give up that way. If one, a supposedly educated contributor to this forums supports a cold-blooded killer on clan lines, leave her to wrestle with her conscience. But listen to what she has to say.
Number two. If one is strongly religious and feels that she has the truth in her pockets, I would just like to humbly say that those are your truths. You may share them with a few, maybe many others. But they are not universal by any means. Please make your point, based on your beliefs, and let others make theirs.
I think that the level of debate has dramatically improved. Six or seven years ago when the whole net thing started we had only the soc.culture.somalia as a discussion forums. The level of debate was so low that I resigned to hopelessness almost every time that I went there. Brilliant debaters were bullied and kicked out as some 'net warlords' wished and the silent majority watched helplessly. But a lot has happened since then. People are more tolerant and 80, maybe 90% of what is now written targets issues. There is still the 10% and such a discussion will help to reduce it.
Age, sex, marital status, clan, profession etc carry no weight. Ideas are 100%.
Cheers |
| Istie (Public user) | Unrecorded Date
Hi everyone, I just discovered this and I am impressed with you all. What a great forums to exchange ideas. About the issue of what to debate, my opinion is we can debate any topic as long as we have intelectual debates. By that I mean non-emotional debates, like genaral topics. Also it is a good to have constructive once so everyone can learn something from it. Keep up the good work, I am looking forwad to see when these debates will start. Bye. |
