     Perfecthusband | Saturday, December 02, 2000 - 01:18 am
Polygamy
The Ultimate Feminist Lifestyle
By Elizabeth Joseph
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I've often said that if polygamy didn't exist, the modern American career woman would have invented it.
Because, despite its reputation, polygamy is the one lifestyle that offers an independent woman a real
chance to "have it all".
One of my heroes is Dr. Martha Hughes Cannon, a physician and a plural wife who in 1896 became the
first woman legislator in any U.S. state or territory. Dr. Cannon once said, "You show me a woman who
thinks about something besides cookstoves and washtubs and baby flannels, and I will show you nine
times out of ten a successful mother". With all due respect, Gloria Steinem has nothing on Dr. Cannon.
As a journalist, I work many unpredictable hours in a fast-paced environment. The news determines my
schedule. But am I calling home, asking my husband to please pick up the kids and pop something in the
microwave and get them to bed on time just in case I'm really late? Because of my plural marriage
arrangement, I don't have to worry. I know that when I have to work late my daughter will be at home
surrounded by loving adults with whom she is comfortable and who know her schedule without my telling
them. My eight-year-old has never seen the inside of a day-care center, and my husband has never eaten
a TV dinner. And I know that when I get home from work, if I'm dog-tired and stressed-out, I can be
alone and guilt-free. It's a rare day when all eight of my husband's wives are tired and stressed at the
same time.
It's helpful to think of polygamy in terms of a free-market approach to marriage. Why shouldn't you or
your daughters have the opportunity to marry the best man available, regardless of his marital status?
I married the best man I ever met. The fact that he already had five wives did not prevent me from doing
that. For twenty-three years I have observed how Alex's marriage to Margaret, Bo, Joanna, Diana, Leslie,
Dawn, and Delinda has enhanced his marriage to me. The guy has hundreds of years of marital
experience; as a result, he is a very skilled husband.
It's no mystery to me why Alex loves his other wives. I'd worry about him if he didn't. I did worry in the
case of Delinda, whom I hired as my secretary when I was practicing law in Salt Lake City. Alex was in
and out of my office a lot over the course of several months, and he never said a word about her. Finally,
late one night on our way home from work, I said, "Why haven't you said anything about Delinda?"
He said, "Why should I?"
I said, "She's smart, she's beautiful. What, have you gone stupid on me?"
They were married a few months later.
Polygamy is an empowering lifestyle for women. It provides me the environment and opportunity to
maximize my female potential without all the tradeoffs and compromises that attend monogamy. The
women in my family are friends. You don't share two decades of experience, and a man, without those
friendships becoming very special.
I imagine that across America there are groups of young women preparing to launch careers. They sit
around tables, talking about the ideal lifestyle to them in their aspirations for work, motherhood, and
personal fulfillment. "A man might be nice," they might muse. "A man on our own terms," they might
add. What they don't realize is that there is an alternative that would allow their dreams to come true.
That alternative is polygamy, the ultimate feminist lifestyle.
From a speech given by Elizabeth Joseph at "Creating a Dialogue: Women Talking to Women", a
conference organized by the Utah chapter of the National Organization for Women. Joseph is an
attorney, a journalist, and lives in Big Water, Utah. |
| Perfectwife | Saturday, December 02, 2000 - 02:02 am
No, thanks perfect husband. I am a monopolist and free competition is not in my agenda. |
| Have it all | Saturday, December 02, 2000 - 08:58 am
I'm not ready for stressful life.
*Man with experience is not an option for me too,
Sorry.
Ps: Would you do all that Mr Perfecthusband?
I guess not, Huh! |
| T-GIRL | Saturday, December 02, 2000 - 01:32 pm
Another COPYRIGHT infringment policy broken..Hmmmmm Interesting |
| Perfecthusband | Sunday, December 03, 2000 - 12:57 am
Perfectwife
Nolosha haku fiirin selfishnimo, Caqli iyo xisaabtan ku fiiri.
hadalka ay qortay Elizabeth waa hadal macquul ah, oo reer fiican oo ka koobma dhowr qof lagu dhisi karo.
Sababtaad ku diidday inaad xaas u noqoto nin aad u fiican haduu xaas kale leyahay maxey tahay? |
| Perfecthusband | Sunday, December 03, 2000 - 01:03 am
Benefits For Women
Automatic childcare in a sexist society gives women more effective choice to have a career without devaluing the role of homemaker.
Being able to marry men who are already married means that women can marry men who have already proved themselves, therefore minimising their risk.
Being able to marry the men who attract most women means they don't have to settle just for what's left after other women have the best pickings.
Having the possibility that a husband can remarry without divorce extends practical security to a woman. She needn't worry about losing her husband and income as she loses her looks, because if her husband is attracted by a younger woman, he doesn't even have to think about leaving his wife.
Polygamy removes the pressure on a husband to commit adultery, and removes damaging deceit from a marriage.
Polygamy provides a method where a woman can have a female friend for life as well as a husband.
Polygamy therefore provides more people and a better chance of meeting diverse needs.
Polygamy provides a potential for at least three adult incomes, reducing state dependance and the fear of unemployment.
Controls Placed On Men
If a man wants to have another sexual partner in a polygamous system then he has to meet his responsibilities - pay for any children produced from all his relationships without priority being given to those from a 'legal' relationship.
Polygamy removes or reduces the seduction of innocent young women - If a man promises to marry
her, he cannot use his existing marriage as an excuse for not fulfilling a promise.
Polygamy reduces the number of women who are available. Currently, with more women than men, this 'cheapens' women. With less women available their 'value' goes up. In other words, polygamy makes men have to try harder and do better with women if they are to win them in competition with other men |
| PerfectWife | Sunday, December 03, 2000 - 03:32 am
To Perfecthusband,
What act of selfishness are you talking about! I wish you could re-read what you just wrote.
Sir, We live in a world of first come first served. No such idea of communism exists. And all things in this world never lose their altruistic value, remember world of scarcity. We live in a world where only the survival is for the quickest, smartest, and strongest. If i think that Mr Man is all that...i will keep him for myself and enjoy the fruit of what i have earned by my keenest search. If i find Mr Man is in the hands of my sister...n i will leave it for her...after all i would not like endanger my own species!
Yes to Monopoly...No to Free Competition :-) |
| Perfecthusband | Sunday, December 03, 2000 - 11:05 pm
Perfectwife
you wrote " We live in a world where only the survival is for the quickest, smartest, and strongest"
It sounds like the rain forest!
I thought we humans are a class above, for instance we reason, we look at an issue from all aspects and then select the best possible solution.
In a world where no one can have all one wants, isn't it wise to compromise on what we have. We learn to compromise as kids when we compete for limited resources.
Polygamy is in the best interest of women, it is more responsibility for a man, while monogomous relationships fail to be a crystall ball solution for all circumstances especially when women in a society outnumber men in which case we have three options to choose from.
1. Monogomous relationship, bad luck for the rest.
2. Monogomous relationships, but allow extramarital relationships
3. Polygamy
Being honest to your gender, which one of the above would you pick, and why? |
| PerfectWife | Monday, December 04, 2000 - 07:59 am
Perfecthusband,
Rain forest! I wished that was the case. Our world is more challenging, more demanding, more frightening :-(
Though i can't deny that Allah has made us carry the message that Mother Nature humbly asked not to but by our malicious desires we have proven that we are a class under animal beings. Have u seen animal exterminating and genociding other animals claiming that they are better Race!!
Don't think so but for Mr Man...me mentioning names and examples, could go on till dooms DAY :-(
Monogomy rules! We indeed like it or not are a perfect duplicates of little darwin :-(
Polygomay option offers this:
1)On contract you are married, but where is the husband (guess with wife #20!)
2)Losing the extra-income that you would otherwise have enjoyed
3)Extra marital relations,ooh that is harram :-( |
| Perfecthusband | Tuesday, December 05, 2000 - 10:40 am
Perfectwife
With all my respects for you, you are not addressing the issues that I have put on my last posting.
Please think clearly, and take the time to answer each point with valid logical discourse.
I wrote: " while monogomous relationships fail to be a crystall ball solution for all circumstances especially when women in a society outnumber men in which case we have three options to choose from.
1. Monogomous relationship, bad luck for the rest.
2. Monogomous relationships, but allow extramarital relationships
3. Polygamy
Being honest to your gender, which one of the above would you pick, and why? "
Instead of answering you wrote back " Polygomay option offers this:
1)On contract you are married, but where is the husband (guess with wife #20!)
2)Losing the extra-income that you would otherwise have enjoyed
3)Extra marital relations,ooh that is harram :-( "
I assure you that a perfect polygamyst who is a muslim can only accomodate 4 wives, not twenty as you claim.
I also assure you that Islam protects your income, your husband has to take care of the bills, you can enjoy your earnings as you wish.
I also assure you that you will not require more intimacy and love than a perfect polygamyst can provide with enthusiasm. Studies show that men who engage with their spouses more than twice a week are more immune to diseases and thus much healthier than bored husbands.
Extending this theory,we can deduce that a polygamyst will meet all your emotional needs and will rejuvenate you like the ocean tide with gentle breeze periodically,each time you see him, you will adore him, indeed something worthwile to look forward for. A Muslim perfect husband will treat all his wives with respect and love, while his perfect wives receprocate this love.
I responded to your questions logically, be fare and respond to mine likewise.
A last thought, this arrangement is approved by Allah, it is thus good for you, think about it! |
| Perfecthusband | Tuesday, December 05, 2000 - 10:50 am
Perfectwife
With all my respects for you, you are not addressing the issues that I have put on my last posting.
Please think clearly, and take the time to answer each point with valid logical discourse.
I wrote: " while monogomous relationships fail to be a crystall ball solution for all circumstances especially when women in a society outnumber men in which case we have three options to choose from.
1. Monogomous relationship, bad luck for the rest.
2. Monogomous relationships, but allow extramarital relationships
3. Polygamy
Being honest to your gender, which one of the above would you pick, and why? "
Instead of answering you wrote back " Polygomay option offers this:
1)On contract you are married, but where is the husband (guess with wife #20!)
2)Losing the extra-income that you would otherwise have enjoyed
3)Extra marital relations,ooh that is harram :-( "
I assure you that a perfect polygamyst who is a muslim can only accomodate 4 wives, not twenty as you claim.
I also assure you that Islam protects your income, your husband has to take care of the bills, you can enjoy your earnings as you wish.
I also assure you that you will not require more intimacy and love than a perfect polygamyst can provide with enthusiasm. Studies show that men who engage with their spouses more than twice a week are more immune to diseases and thus much healthier than bored husbands.
Extending this theory,we can deduce that a polygamyst will meet all your emotional needs and will rejuvenate you like the ocean tide with gentle breeze periodically,each time you see him, you will adore him, indeed something worthwile to look forward to. A Muslim perfect husband will treat all his wives with respect and love, while his perfect wives riceprocate this love.
I responded to your questions logically, be fare and respond to mine likewise.
A last thought, this arrangement is approved by Allah, it is thus good for you,
Timesharing a perfecthusband is better than monopolizing a jerk.
think about it! |
| Hibo | Tuesday, December 05, 2000 - 11:44 am
Perfecthusband: U r one of those religious guys trying to get urself.. another wifey.....from our educated sisters... who believe in monogamy......nah.. man... do ur parasiting somewhere else.... we believe in symbiotic life style.....We like to be the predator and the prey at the same time.... wait.. do u understand me?? |
| Perfectwife | Tuesday, December 05, 2000 - 04:14 pm
Perfecthusband,
Allah (swt) said: "And among His signs is that He created for you mates from among yourselves that you live in tranquility with them and He has put love and mercy between you" 30:21
Marriage is not just a physical or emotional necessity but it's a relationship of mutual right and obligation based on divine guidance. To foster the love and security that comes with marriage, muslims wives have various rights:
1) Muslim men are obliged to provide her with food, shelter, clothing and all her other needs
2)she has the right to kind treatment. Our beloved prophet pbuh said: "the most perfect believers are the best in conduct. And the best of you are those who are best to their wives"
It is true that Quran permits but does not command a man to have four wives.
Allah (swt) said" If you fear lest you may not be perfectly equitable in treating more than one wife, then, shall be content with one" An-Nisaa
It is next to impossible that you equally love, cherish and be just to your four wives!
So, my dear perfecthusband all the benefits that you mentioned above due to polygamy such as women having more time to establish themselves as career women went to the drain, if we went to play according to the rules of Islam My place is at Home...My needs are your commands...SO, relax and think about it. How can you physically, emotionally, economically manage with four wives and their children...and remember you have to give each one of them your complete, undivided love, caring, and lovemaking.
I Guess...u can't manage that...which leads you to my point...Monogamy Rules :-) |
| Perfectwife | Tuesday, December 05, 2000 - 04:20 pm
By the way Perfecthusband,
I did answered you questions...and very logically
just the way u put them.
Feel free to defend your argument, you will find me, convincing you of the oppossite...in whatever
field you decide to explore :-) |
| Trauntlabgirl | Tuesday, December 05, 2000 - 04:58 pm
Perfect wife: No offense sis but I was knodding all the way while reading your last post till I came to the sentece "It is next to impossible that you equally love, cherish and be just to your four wives!" While marrying more than one wife is a right given to men by their creator, the honesty to treat them equally with justice and love is upon them and is btn them and thier lord. It is not open for debate whether they can marry two, three or four. Having said that, the prophet(saw), his companions(sahabas, may allah be pleased with them all) and those that followed them (the taabien) had more than one wife. I don't think we understand that verse in suratul an-Nisa better than they did, to the point we limit the marriage of more than one wife with the pretex that it is impossible to treat them equally.
With that in mind, if you wanna say that it is not for you, it is a different case. But to say that it is next to impossible to treat them all is a bit too hasty and echoes deficiency in knowledge of our beloved religion.
By the way, any of you heard of the "Modernist movement"....they love to explain women issue in Islam in accordance with Western perspective... Polygamy and how it is impossible to treat 4 wives equally is their best one. |
| Perfectwife | Tuesday, December 05, 2000 - 05:58 pm
TLG,
Our beloved prophet had more than one wife, he treated them equally as best as he could. And yet he had one wife which was dearest to his heart.
For a muslim man to equally give his four wives everything ie in a materialistic way, that is possible...but had anyone divide giving his love between all four!!! To me is impossible. And since that can't be achieved then it is best to stick to JUST ONE WIFE.
(Idea) |
| Muna | Wednesday, December 06, 2000 - 08:53 am
To Perfecthusband:
I must ask you this..You stated the above with much conviction and I for one would like to inquire if I may,weather or not you would still be pro-polygamy if hypethetically you were a woman in this day and age??
Please try to answer this with as much logic,honesty and objectivity as you can.Also, I would prefer it if you refrained from quoting other people for whom polygamy has been a solution,especially non-muslims.Instead back up all that pro-polygamy talk with some substance and perhaps hard evidence pertaining to your own experiences.Do not even entertain the thought of telling me that you are single and have never even set foot in an institution of marriage.
Another thing I would like to bring to your attention is that you seemed to have ignored all the disadvantages of polygamy and steered clear of them altogether and hence I am led to believe that your argument is unfair and unbalanced.If you are trying to persuade your audience on a particular topic I would advise that you present both sides,in other words the pros and cons and then proceed to skillfully sway the generally opposing opinion.
We are all Somalis I presume,and with that in mind I would like to point out to you that we all in one way or another have come in contact with someone involved in a polygamous relationship..if you can't think of any try to recall your grandparents and people from their generation.
My parents married for love,have six children,have been married for 24 years now and are happily married.What I am trying to get at is that you stated that "monogamous relationships, bad luck for the rest of us...monogamous relationships,but allow extramarital relationships and polygamy."
Help me out a little here...
Do you mean to say that all monogamous relationships result in one of the spouse's having an extramarital affair,preferably the poor husband who was driven to it and to whom it was a last resort?
Do you mean to say that this bad luck you speak of which your gender will undoubtedly be stricken with is a Direct and Unavoidable fate resulting from two complete strangers choosing to be in a monogamous relationship?
Do you mean to say that all monogamous relationships are bound for failure?
Do you mean to say that the only way a man can ensure that he maintains good health is to have sexual relations with each and everyone of us his several wives,instead of just one?
Do you mean to say that a man can guarantee devoting himself mentally, emotionally, spiritually,physically and sexually to all of his wives?
Do you mean to say that there are Somali men out there who have the balls and the courage to inform their first wife of their intentions to seek out and marry another and not just resort to doing it the old fashioned way...JUST KEEP IT ON THE HUSH HUSH and when the cat finally gets out of the bag he will in great depth apologize to his first wife without whose consent the marriage shouldn't have taken place and then just buy her a couple of dirac's and some gold...Yeah that should definitely take care of all the anguish and betrayal she feels inside?
Do you mean to say that when a woman is approached by her husband who is techinically head over heels in love with her,about marrying another one...she won't feel cheap,misused and wonder what it is that the other woman has that she doesn't and think to herself what need it was that husband wanted fulfilled that she didn't?
Do you mean to say that polygamy guarantees and ensures that the children who are a product of these marriages won't envy and think of eachother as the child from dad's other marriage?
We have a lot of the latter in our community and believe it leads to nothing but senseless jealousy and hatred which carries onto and spills over to future generations!Oh yeah the last time I checked it was really expensive to have a child especially in the times we are living in...So are there really Somali men out there that have the financial capabilities of supporting four wives and their children with the greatest of ease...and I don't mean Cab driving and knocking yourself out senseless with Khad night in and night out because for some strange reason your lifestyle doesn't permit you to get the typical eight hours of sleep that every other normal adult does!!!If such men exists please the lead the way and I shall be glad to follow and convince them of the greatness of MONOGAMY and have it drilled into their heads!!!
I've said enough for today,I'll be taking by bow now and leave you with happy thoughts and MONOGAMY all the way!This would be a nice time for a HAND RECOUNT!For all those in favour say Ay!All those not in favour say I HOPE I'M RIGHT ABOUT THIS!
Until next time,peace,love and craziness to you all!
Muna. |
| Mercutio- | Wednesday, December 06, 2000 - 09:22 am
DOES POLYGAMY APPLY TO WOMEN HAVING MORE THAN ONE HUSBAND?
OR ARE JUST MEN ALLOWED?? |
| Trauntlabgirl | Wednesday, December 06, 2000 - 06:41 pm
Perfectwife or should I say Idea....loooool
sis i feel you now:-)
Anway, the assertion that you can't divide up your love to 4 wives doesn't make polygamy inadmissible or impractical. Tell me sis, does that mean we should limit oursleves to having just one kid since it impossible to devide our love to all the kids?
On a serious note though, yes the prophet did love one of his wives (Aysha radhiallu anha) more than the rest, but he didn't limit marriage to one wife even knowing that from personal experience. Nor did the Sahabas or the taabieen. And those were the best of generations. The question is not whether u can love them the same (atleast from my understanding) but should the marriage be limited to one wife with that pretex? I think not.
My take on this is that we can't deny the rights Allah gave to our brothers. It seems that the attack on polygamy stems more from our own cultural experiences rather than the religious position. If the men that are practising this form of marriage are messing around, it doesn't take away from the permisibility of the practise according to Islam. Those men will one day stand before their creator (as we all shall).
Oh, BTW, the practise of a woman marrying more than one man is called polyandry...I think it is practised in Nepal. This practise would obviously not work due the biolgical nature of the females. One obvious problem will be determining who the father is....perternity test you say? they are not 100% realiable ontop of being expensive. |
| perfectwife | Thursday, December 07, 2000 - 04:18 am
Sister TLG,
I am not against polygamy as being a right given
to men. I am against those who think that they can marry right n left misbehaving themselves.
Allah has allowed polygamy on conditions:
1)the wife should approve of it
2)the wife should be really sick that she is unable to take care of her husband and her house
3)the wife is biologically unable to have children. Allah had given us also rights, and if men want to exercise their given rights...N We should as Well.
But the brother arguing that he wants to excersie his manhood and have many lawful sexual intercourse to be healthy...that point pissed me off.
Perfecthusband: i will be away from the forums till december 18 (finals time)
IF u still want to continue, i will be available after dec18 |
| perfectwife | Thursday, December 07, 2000 - 04:21 am
ps: the prophet married so many times....that was for religious reasons...spread of Islam... |
| rose | Friday, December 08, 2000 - 04:10 am
WHATEVER!!!! |
| Perfecthusband | Friday, December 08, 2000 - 10:05 pm
Ramadan Kareem to
Perfectwife
TLG
Muna
First of all, thumbs up for Perfectwife for your strong belief in our beloved faith, Islam. As long as you quote Quran, even if you misunderstand, you are rewarded for making Quran and Sunnah the bases for your decisions in life.
TLG, I truly feel like you are my sister in Islam, your sense of ballance on all issues, and your sincerity in clarifying touchy issues to the objectives of our faith makes me have unparalleled respect and admiration. I wish more Somali women think freely as you do without maintaining the christian style family structure in their heads which is imposed on us after years of domination by the west. May Allah bless you in this month, forgive your sins and shower you with a lot of his blessings ..Amin
Sister Muna
I read your long logical discussion on the topic at hand, carefully, but it seemed that you have read me wrong at times and at other, you have let your prejudice drive you to a conclusion that was uncalled for.
In a society, in which women outnumber men, if every man marries one women, the remaining women have the following chices:
1. Stay chaste and never experience love
2. Take sheytaan's lead and be unchaste
3. Marry a married man
As a muslim sister, which one would you choose?
I never said that monogamous relationship to be bound for failure, but the persistence of a women not to allow her husband not to marry another woman can lead to his unfaithfullness and deceit, and a divorce when she finds out about his secret habits, pleae read on.
Yes, a man can divide his devotion to his wives, yes he can have the best relationship with both, but not from the prespective that you are looking from, THE WESTERN PRESPECTIVE.
Apparently, you have grown in the west, and it seems difficult for you to relate to a different philosophy of life, that of Islam.
Islam puts the interest of the community ahead of that of the individual, where as, in the west, The individual rights are given priority. As such, when Allah ordained the institution of marriage, Allah ordained it as a protective mechanism for the society ( safety net) and not to please any individual.
I am married to two lovely women, We all live together and my children have two loving mothers who care for them. Both of my wive have outgrown the western mindset of what a family should be, instead, we take our lead from our faith. We all realize that we are in a journey to the next life, and our companinonship has a purpose beyound physical and emotional attachment to individuals. We are seeking Allah Subhanahu wa tacaala and find enjoyment worshiping him.
When a friend of one of my wives asked her about her happiness, she answered that "she can not imagine a life with someone else"
The other wife in a similar situation was quoted as saying that " The other wife is like my real sister made lawful to marry my husband"
As for me, I go a long way to make my family a happy one, our happiness stems from our closeness to Allah, not to money, which with the grace of Allah we have, and not to devoting our lives with only one individual, but devoting our love to Allah alone .
We were not created to devote our lives to humans, but to the Almighty Allah, Being a muslim does not mean picking and coosing what you like like a supermarket. But rather a system of life that regulates all of our actions to make them in line with those of our creator.
You ask, can a man care for all of his wives and children, the answer is yes. That is if your yardstic is measured with a responsible man, and not a khat eating, cigarette puffing time wasting, typical minnesotan man.
I have taken a rich part in my kids lives, the happiest times are those i spend with my family, I have attended all the important functions in their lives, spent valuable time with them and still found time to keep a very rewarding career, Alhamdulillah that allows me to meet all of my families needs and that of our relatives back home, quality time with my wives, regular excercise, running five miles daily, and a time for my God reading quran and caring about the fate of our faith. Not to mention the time I spend with my friends, And pondering about the beauty of Allah's creatures, I read astronomy with interest to further strength my devotion to Allah.
Both sets of my children are so attached that you would not know which mother belongs to which child
and when you call my home, and ask my son for his mother , he will ask you " which one".
My wives feel respected, loved and appreciated, not humiliated , abused and used like western women.
About the issue of gealousy, it is a natural feeling for a women who loves her husband, it is healthy, as long as it does not lead to crime and loonacy, it shows love which is a basic requirement of marriage. But gealousy should not force a women to ignore her husband's rightful needs and force him to chosse between leaving him and denying him to marry another women who prefres to marry a man with the right attributes even if he is married.
Unlike other men who value women with their physical attributes, I was attracted to my wives with their intellectual attributes, and faith, since these qualities endure the times. Their soul is what I am deeply attached to forever.
Today, In our Somali community in North America, I find far more eligible women than men, most women I came across were intelligent, pious, and serious in their lives, whereas fellow Somali Men were struggling with the temptation of a flesh worshipping society, lack of secure careers, narcotics (qat) and time wasting habits.
logically these circumstances are partially the reason for which Allah has devised polygamy to allow more eligible women to find a caring husband.
And lastly, I am not hunting for another wife on the net, but rather helping my muslim sisters to be wise enough to judge with their heads and not with their hearts.
Islam makes you a servant to Allah alone
Not your whims, may Allah bless you. Amin
Ramadan Kareem |
| AC/DC | Friday, December 08, 2000 - 10:25 pm
Time out. |
| Trauntlabgirl | Saturday, December 09, 2000 - 01:45 pm
Perfecthusband: Maasha Allah bro. Is there room for number three? ...just kidding. I thought I should throw in a lil humour so that everyone can sit back and smile.
On a serious note though, maasha Allah may Allah increase the goodness for you.
Perfectwife: go hit the books. Not too hard though :-) |
| Perfecthusband | Sunday, December 10, 2000 - 01:55 am
TLG
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
My answer would be like what Musa Alayhi salaam said sitting under a tree tired after helping the daughters of Yaquub alyhi salaam collect water
" Rabbi innii limaa anzalta ilayya min khairin faqiir"
I have read a lot of your responses to other individuals, on different topics,on different BB and I must admit that you are one of the few keyboard warriors who are always up in arms to defend Islam, in a ballanced way, may be one day you can become a moderator of an Islamic forums for Somali women.
I wonder, where did you get your Islamic education, I am curious? and how long have you lived in diaspora? |
| perfectwife | Sunday, December 10, 2000 - 02:52 am
salaam alaykum perfecthusband,
May Allah (swt) guide you to His right path and be a guest in his paradise. May Allah make you stronger in controlling your worldly desires and keep peace and harmony in your beautiful small family.
I apologize for taking the extreme case in this dicussion, but i have seen by my own eyes that some muslims brothers by the name of Islam trying to unjustly treat thier wives just because Allah has made them have that right of marrying more than a wife.
I strongly believe when Allah said "al-deen yousr" and "laa youkalif allah nafsaan ilaa wisciha" So, this is a personal view, there are many cases that polygamy doesn't work. We are after all weak human beings.
Once again, maa-shaa-allah. Allah yeebarik feek waa fee naasalak waa yagcaalaak meen al-faizeen beel jaanaah.
TLG: OK...now i will hit the books, can't wait till it is over.
a muslim sister |
| Perfecthusband | Monday, December 11, 2000 - 01:13 am
Perfectwife
Thanks for your support, one other thing.
Please note that polygamy is one thing,
applying it is something else since human error will affect the administration of polygamy. So when we see a failed polygamous relationship, we should know that it is a human failure and not a failure attributed to polygamy. This is very important.
Polygamy is a principle that Allah has ordained.
We humans abuse it at will, due to our injustice to fellow humans which is an injustice to our own souls.
Marriage in general is an institution most couples are not trained for, and are ill prepared for it. Monogomaous marriages fail everyday, but that does not warrant to call for cohabitation as a solution.
When people get married, they are usually driven by desire, most do not look at what is ahead, such as children who need to be raised according to the tenets of our faith, and the contribution this unit will produce in years to come.
The more thought we put in this step, the better results we get at the end.
A woman, somtimes has to divide her time between Allah, her husband, kids, work, and friends , in that order. There are times, that her pain can be alleviated by a fellow woman sharing responsibilities that can turn into a win-win situation.
Polygamy thus, is a social remedy, not a requirement. |
| Muna | Monday, December 11, 2000 - 09:25 am
Asalama Caleykum wa raxmatullahi wa barakatu
To Perfecthusband:
Thank you for responding to my message.Frankly speaking I'm sorry that you feel that I had arrived at an "uncalled for conclusion."
However,I must say that the only reason that I chose to be so blunt with this matter in particular is that I have come across more than my share of Somali men who regard polygamy as a playground that Allah subxaanah wa tacalah designed for their carnal desires to come to play in.
As a Somali sister,I have come across both single and married men who believe in the above stated ignorant ideology.The reason for my frustration undboubtedly stemed from my the impatience I feel towards these brothers who so clearly trivialize our religion...hence pushing Somali women to a more westernized way of thinking(which I don't condone either).I'm not sure as to how you arrived at the conclusion that I'm too westernized and that I've grown to adopt their ways...but I will take that as an offence!
I was merely trying to get you to back up what you said and alxamdulilah you did!If the truth be told...I am happy that you are happily married to two muslim sisters who bore children for you.I am also glad that it is nothing but clear skies and smooth sailing with married life and that you with Allah's guidance are keeping all troubles and conflict at bay!You have much to be admired if you are capable of being a good father,a devoted husband,a juste and responsible muslim brother and much,much more.I can't think of anything wrong with that picture...to me it seems quite impeccable...that's something I hardly ever say about anyone's life..so take that compliment and run with it..ya heard!!
I never said that polygamy doesn't work...I just wanted you to tie back your strong convictions with your own life and how you made it work for you as a God fearing muslim.I would never even think about saying that polygamy cheapens women..for I believe that Al-Caliim would never put it in His Qur'an for us to follow if this were a lifestyle bound for failure!Our Prophet pbuh made his life an example for us to learn from and hopefully we would see his example as a way to avoid confusion so that his people may live their lives as God intended!
You know people get a lot of stuff really twisted especially with religion and sometimes they don't even bear in mind that we have the Qur'an for that reason...so that everything is clear and there are no doubts...every answer that we seek in life can be found in the Qur'an.But people will not listen,instead they will manipulate,distort and sabotage the word of Allah for their so-called gain and drag with them any Jaahil they can get to agree with them!That's what pissed me off.I didn't mean to make you pay for the sins of some ignorant men that I happened to come across bro!
You are a sight for sore eyes...I'm truly thankful that there still A FEW GOOD MEN!!lol.Oh yeah I love that you are so articulate and you exercise too..man didn't I tell you to point me to where the good men are at??!!..lol!
Until next time,peace,love and craziness to you!
Muna. |
| Ms. Imperfect | Monday, December 11, 2000 - 10:58 am
What is with the nicks? Perfecthusband/wife?
How can mere humans claim to be perfect. Your arrogance is disturbing. Less you forget, only Allah (swt) is perfect.
Yes, polygamy is allowed in Islam, however, men create a mess out of the rights given to them by selectively interpreting what has been ordained. As is the case in many patriarchial societies, men want to have their cake and eat it too!!
One never hears about advocacy for the rights that come with practicing polygamy. For example, does the polygamous husband deal equally (i.e materially, emotional support, and intimacy) with his spouses? Usually the case is, 1) men suffering a midlife crisis seeking rejuvenation by taking a younger wife. Wife #1 is neglecting and she is pathetically counselled that she is 'Min-weyn'. 2)travelling men, usually wadaads who are avoiding zina will practice polygamy, however, do they fullfill their obligations to wife #1
Sorry guys, I haven't read all that you wrote, so maybe you have answered all the concerns.
Let me sign-off by saying, I recognize polygamy is allowed in Islam, however, I will not tolerate it in my life. If that makes me a less than a perfect muslimah, so be it. Ina Laahu Khafouru Rahiim. |
| Trauntlabgirl | Monday, December 11, 2000 - 11:03 am
Perfect wife/husband/muna, salaam. I'm glad (alhamdulilah) we finally all came to the same conclusion.
Perfecthusband:
<My answer would be like what Musa Alayhi salaam said sitting under a tree tired after helping the daughters of Yaquub alyhi salaam collect water
" Rabbi innii limaa anzalta ilayya min khairin faqiir" >
Maasha Allah bro, there isn't a better answer to the quesion.
<may be one day you can become a moderator of an Islamic forums for Somali women.>
That is very generous of you, but you might have spoken too soon. My patience runs out very fast at times.
<I wonder, where did you get your Islamic education, I am curious?>
I graduated from the Islamic university of Madinah, faculty of... wishfull thinking on my part. Jokes aside, my Islamic knowledge (accumulated in the last one and a half year), which is in its initial stages of development, comes mainly from books, tapes, internet, Islamic lecture/conferences/seminars.
< and how long have you lived in diaspora?>
Tough one to answer, since the word diaspora is a relative term when it comes to Somalis. If you are refering to the dispersal of the Somalis after the war, then I don't think it applies to me, since i'm a product of "dispersals" that occured decades a go, for reasons i'm yet to comprehend. If however, the question is how long I have been in the West, the answer is about 7 years.
Regarding Muna's last comment... in btn the lols... can I say me three?.. lol ... Perfectwife, do I hear me four?lol |
| Amazon XX | Monday, December 11, 2000 - 11:07 am
What an interesting topic! Strangely enough-I agree with PerfectHusband- 3 or 4 wives are better than only 1 trying to meet all that is demanded of her. I see his point.
Now- let us take that concept a step further. Why can't women have 3 or 4 husbands. Imagine- one man to take care of the household chores, one man to raise the kids, one man to work outside the house (ie. bring $$$) and the last man to be the "bed-companion" !!!!
Such....is life!
I can dream can't I!
LOL! |
| Trauntlabgirl | Monday, December 11, 2000 - 03:36 pm
Amazonxx, is that you Madmac? if not pardon my suspicion, that writing style is all too familar. I actually thought for a moment i was in the "Islam" folder. Anyway, for an answer to your question about women marrying more than one husband, scroll up and read my second posting. If you still have issues, we'll talk :-) |
| Perfecthusband | Tuesday, December 12, 2000 - 07:32 am
To Muna
Wa calaykumu salaam wa raxmatullahi wa barakaatuh
Maa Shaa Allah, " Wa inna minal bayaani la sixran"
Indeed, there is a magic in your eloquence, After reading your thoughts, you have renewed my confidence in our Somali sisters in the West. But I have to give a due credit to your parents whose image you have brilliantly portrayed on this board, Without there nurture, and direction, its doubtful that we would find someone like you, hence the importance of the role of MOTHERS.
Consider my last remarks as " friendly Fire" And make Dua for me.
Please be patient and read on as I have a piece to share with BB participants.
Ms imperfect
I chose my screen name as an attention getter, I am in reality Mr. Imperfect, and of course as an ideal to live up to, and in no way does my nickname portray my current state of affairs, being a mortal , I agree with you that only Allah is trully perfect. Jazaakallah for your note. This applies to Perfectwife also.
Please read the past discussion, to see how this topic has unfolded to its present conclusion. I found some of the most intellectually enriching Somali people on this site, please contribute your thoughts as well, we all value and celebrate difference of opinions.
TLG
A year and a half,? Ma ShaaAllah, Tabaarakallah.
Time well spent. I must insist that you, Perfectwife and Muna some how form an ad-hoc committee for the advancement of Somali women. Here is what I foresee as an objective for the proposed committe.
1. Ridwaanullah
Purpose
1. " Wabtaghi feemaa aataakallahu daaral aakhira"
Seek the ( Goodness )of the hereafter with (bounties) that Allah has provided you with.
Your group have, intelligence, elequence, common sense, iimaan, and above all you all CARE. These are bounties, and you must pay the tax, which is :
Means
Working to correct the perception of Islam among Somali women in all facets, specially the role of Somali woman as the molders and makers of great thinkers and leaders of social change. A woman empowered with the right islamic education, can accomplish a monumental results when she understands that there is more into raising kids and marriage than being a cook, and housecleaner. Not trivializing the house work, but, highlighting the importance of having a vision and living up to it.
Proposed action
Launch your comitte's website and reach out all sisters who have no where to turn to for the right information. In your forums, you can invite scholars, conduct debates, advise confused sisters, etc. in short energizing your lives with a purpose to live for and to meet your maker with your sincere and humble intentions and accomplishments.
Dear sisters
I will be away from this wonderful page for the remainder of Ramadan. I leave you with the following advise.
1. make more istiqfaar. Problems in our lives and unhappiness are the fruits of our sins, when we sin, the angels issue a trouble ticket to punish violator, if sinner immediately repents by Istiqfaar, the trouble ticket is torn, and punishment is dismissed. So Istiqfaar averts punishment. Also since we all like to get good things in our lives, and accomplish our dreams, our sins get in the way of our dreams, so if we want good things to happen, we must make a lot of Istiqfaar. In short , Istiqfaar brings good things and averts bad things, and the more times you say Istiqfaar, the more you get purer, and the more your heart begins to rid itself from attachment to anything other than Allah. please try.
2. SHUKR , You wake up in the morning, the first thing you do is brush your teeth,. now imagine that you have no arms, how many things can you do in the bath room, to start you would need someone to open the doornob.............................
If Your kidneys fail, you need to go to dialisys machine once every three days so you can urinate.
Your liver is a factory that performs over 500 functions, one function gets screwed up and you are patient in general hospital.
You wake one morning in a dark world, you can't see you cry, you are taken to a doctor who examins you and finds that you vision nerve is damaged for ever.................
Bacteria gets into your inner ear, you can't hear, a world of silence forever ............
And the one Nimco that we are all given is that of Islam, can you imagine being a kaafir ?
Being Shaakira means working for Islam, Shukur leads to the love of Allah, and if you trully love Allah, Allah will love you, If Allah loves you, your worries are over, you will experience serenity, and happiness as long as you confine your love to Allah alone, because, everyhting that we get attached to is finite and you will one day loose it to your dismay, but Allah is there for you , forever.
3. Dhikr
" And Remember me, I will remember you and be thankful to me and do not deny (my Nicma)"
The more you make dhikr, the more you love Allah, and the more you get closer to Him, The more you remember Allah, the more he helps you with your life. If Allah is the first in your daily TO DO LIST, He will make you the first in the list of his servants in the day of judgement. Constant rememberance leads to loving Allah and devotion, and seeing things the way he sees it. Finaly, if there is only one thing you should always remember, Remember Allah, and Allah will help you with the rest. (Try it for thirty days or your money back) Humor
If what I wrote was beneficial, please make dua for me. |
| Trauntlabgirl | Tuesday, December 12, 2000 - 08:26 am
Perfecthusband,
Jazakallahu khairan for the naseeha. I will insha Allah try your remedy, and will hunt u down for my money (time?) back...lol..(astaghfirullah)
About your proposal regarding the committee thing, I'll politely excuse myself. It is being said that as it is right now, i'm spending too much time on the net. Someone has even threatened to cut my allowance...lol... due to poor grades as a result of (though not only) Somalinet forumss.
since you will be away from the forums, let me take this opportunity to wish an early eid mubarak.
Perfectwife/Muna, i'll be seeing u girls around. |
| R. Dawkins | Wednesday, December 13, 2000 - 04:43 pm
Oh puhlease, "polygamy works"; all of what perfecthusband is saying can be explained as driven by the male reproductive technique: mate with as many females as you can, that's the most effective way to get your genes represented in the next generation.
Women have a different technique: choose the best mate possible since you have to nurture and care for the offspring. They invest more energy/care on any particular baby, so naturally they want to snag the choicest male, and keep him!
It ain't go nothin to do with this religion or that! |
