     MAD MAC | Monday, December 18, 2000 - 04:43 am
Has anyone seen or heard from Asad? I'm assuming he took Ramadan off. I kind of miss his contributions. |
| ANON | Monday, December 18, 2000 - 05:44 am
MAD MAC-------THE SAME PERSON (ME) WHO IS USING THE USERNAME *ANON* WAS THE SAME PERSON (ME) USING THE USERNAME *ASAD*. BOTH THE USERNAMES OF *ASAD* AND *ANON* ARE NOT HIS NAMES (MY NAMES); THEY ARE ANONYMOUS NAMES. |
| MAD MAC | Monday, December 18, 2000 - 09:53 am
Asad
What's up with that??? I almost said Anon sounds like Asad but then I said to myself, naw, he wouldn't change his username. Knock it off. It's hard enough keeping track of the players without them changing names. BTW I have the surah I promised you. I will post up tomorrow. I found it on the train. |
| ANON | Monday, December 18, 2000 - 10:08 am
MAD MAC------I'M NOT HERE TO BE A PLAYER AND I'M NOT TRICKING ANYONE. WHAT COUNTS IS THE VIEWS, NOT OUR USERNAMES, RIGHT? I'M GLAD THAT YOU FOUND THE SURA THAT SUPPORTS ALLEGATIONS-----------WHICH SAYS CHARITY WORK DOES NOT NEED PURPOSE.! I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO IT. |
| Sweetgirl | Monday, December 18, 2000 - 10:25 am
Asad how come you're not cutting and pasting? |
| ANON | Monday, December 18, 2000 - 10:33 am
SWEETGIRL-----THAT IS BECAUSE I DO NOT WANT YOU TO INSULT ME------WHILE YOU ARE FASTING-----AS YOU HAVE DONE IT BEFORE. |
| Sweetgirl | Monday, December 18, 2000 - 10:49 am
You never forget do you? |
| ANON | Monday, December 18, 2000 - 10:51 am
SWEETGIRL-----YES, I NEVER FORGET, BUT I FORGIVE. |
| MAD MAC | Tuesday, December 19, 2000 - 12:47 am
Asad
Sometimes you forget, or remember poorly. But don't we all. There's a lot of stuff on this net. anyway, i've got another question for you. I just read a book called Warriors, life and death among the Somalis. Written by a guy named Hadley. During WWII he was part of the British force that routed the Italians and then, with a force of about 60 British officers and men, administered Somalia using Somali Askaris. He lived there about 3 years, mostly in the area from Mudug to Boosaso. He tells a story about Omar Suleiman (I believe a sub-clan of the Majertain) who were know as magicians or sorcerers. In one passage he relates how his truck broke down and the driver accussed him of causing it by annoying some Omar Suleiman who then cursed the truck. He also talked about some riverine tribes of the Rahanweyne who practiced some sort of witch craft. When I was in Somalia I never heard of any of this. What's the scoop here? Is this fringe belief stuff like you see in the States, or is this main stream stuff like you see in Haiti??? |
| ANON | Tuesday, December 19, 2000 - 07:15 am
mad mac------yes, we all forget things sometimes, but i have never fogotten of what the sweetgirl said to me.
about the practicing of witch craft and the majicians and sorcerers in somalia, i have never seen them. i'm afraid of these people wherever they may be and whoever they may be. |
| MAD MAC | Tuesday, December 19, 2000 - 11:14 am
Asad
But have you heard of it? I mean, do people actually practice (or portend to practice) sorcery in Somalia and if so how is it generally regarded? In all my time there no one ever mentioned it. I stumbled upon it in this book. |
| ANON | Tuesday, December 19, 2000 - 01:47 pm
mad mac---yes, i've heard of it, but never seen the practice. it is devilish practice. i seek the refuge of Allah from it and those who practice it. |
| Galool | Tuesday, December 19, 2000 - 02:14 pm
MM
Somalis are not, perhaps surprisingly, particularly supertitious. Don't believe most of the things you read in those early books about Somalia. From what you have demonstrated here, I would say you know more about Somalis than most foreigners who wrote about the place and its people.
Boy, did some of these `Gaals'(this word means Foreigner as well as Infidel, I mean the first) say some interesting things. The one that amused me most was written by a Brit who was in Somalia at around the same time as your author. Coincidentally, he also happened to serve in the Northeast, although he spent some time in the South as well. He mentioned that Somalis with him ate insects like termites which, according to him " is considered something of a delicacy!" In fact Somalis are very squeamish diners. No Somali group goes anywhere near any insect, even if they are in the grip of a famine.
Having said that, there was always ritual activities like Saar, which is a semi-spiritual song-and-dance knees-up popular mainly among the middle-class Northern ladies. This and other similar rituals probably predate Islam, and may be a hang-over from ancient believe systems. Numerous forms of Sorcery, concerned mainly with personal relationships, are also believed and practised by the poorest amongst the riverine Somalis.
But generally speaking, your average Somali is probably less supertitious than you average Redneck. |
| MAD MAC | Tuesday, December 19, 2000 - 09:54 pm
Comrades
Thanks for the clarification. I thought it was fringe stuff, and I didn't see how it could be compatible with Islam. But I guess, theoretically, the Qur'an recognizes, if not by specifying then by default, that people might be able to summon spirits and so forth (what do you call them, Jinns?) but that that would probably be considered an affront to Allah of some sort. On the other hand, if the Qur'an doesn't specifically forbid it, then I guess it is not haram. |
| TLG | Wednesday, December 20, 2000 - 01:58 am
Yes, summoning anything other than Allah, Jinns or otherwise, to help or harm you is shirk (associating partners with God). The Quran clearly forbids it in many places. |
| MAD MAC | Wednesday, December 20, 2000 - 03:36 am
TLG
What about summoning for the sake of summoning. Not to perform anything, but just to do it. Is that Haram? If so, why is it being practiced in Somalia? How is this compatible with Islam, or do the people who practice it just not care? |
| TLG | Wednesday, December 20, 2000 - 10:16 am
MM, I will answer your questions later...i'm in a rush. |
| TLG | Wednesday, December 20, 2000 - 01:29 pm
MM,
Why should u do something for the sake of doing it? Shouldn't you have a purpose in whatever you do? If it is being practised in Somalia, then it must be something from before Islam as Galool mentioned above and the ones doing it are probably ignorant of what Islam says about the practise. |
| Sweetgirl | Wednesday, December 20, 2000 - 03:20 pm
Mad Mac why are you so interested in this issue are you thinking of summoning jinns yourself? |
| MAD MAC | Wednesday, December 20, 2000 - 08:42 pm
Sweetgirl
Yeah, I'm really ino the whole witchcraft thing. Sommoning Jinns to kill mooryan and stuff. Seriously I'm just curious. I read about it and it made me curious.
TLG
Lots of people do things just for the fun of it. You know, like reading your sign in the newspaper. A lot of people think it's foolish but read it anyway. Well, if I could summon spirits it might be kind of cool. Know what I mean. Not as if I'm trying to get them to do anything, but just to check it out. Like checking out a dark cave. |
| Sweetgirl | Thursday, December 21, 2000 - 05:52 pm
Mad Mac you don't forget or forgive do you? anyways I wish I could help you out but this is one of those things that I know nothing of. |
| Ambros | Thursday, December 21, 2000 - 08:48 pm
MAD MAC
WAZUP MAD MAC. I am not a religious scholar, so forgive me if am wrong concerning what am about to tell you. If am wrong, it's from me and nobody else.
Concerning Jinns, spirits, or anything like them, the Holy Quran says that the unseen is not for your eyes or mine. It also states that if you were to see the unseen, your mind would not handle it, and as a result you would go crazy.
The prophet PBOH said once that were you to know what HE knows you would weep more and laugh less.
Mad Mac, my brotha, the universe is much more complex than our human intellect can comprehend, if Allah (almighty God) wished for us to see the unseen, HE would have shown us.
Peace out |
| MAD MAC | Friday, December 22, 2000 - 10:45 am
Ambros
Thanks Abowe. That makes sense. I definately buy the complexity of the universe thing. Supposedly the guy who saw that magic (it was with one of the riverine Bantu tribes, I think on the Webi Shabbelli) found it deeply disturbing although the images themselves were harmless. Dovetails well with what you said. Mahadsannid. |
