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     | Friday, January 26, 2001 - 01:25 pm Hi people If you are Somali and you have a faith which is not Islam ...I love to hear from you. I am agnostic Somali and I love my country and my people, though a lot of them do not understand me, but that is fine.. may be one day they will... Peace and respect Warsame
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| | Friday, January 26, 2001 - 02:14 pm warsame you are also Gay.faggot.
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| | Friday, January 26, 2001 - 06:00 pm Warsame: Hey brother I am with you 100%. Forget about all those other fools who run with the crowd. I am taking charge of my own salvation not letting others try to intimadate me into something that I dont want. I am glad you have the courage Warsame to stand up for what you beleive in and do whats right in life. This shows that you are a real leader and a man amongst men. Afterall - anyone can run with a gang it takes a real man to say no and stand to what he beleives in. Peace
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| | Saturday, January 27, 2001 - 06:51 am johnnyjake so are you saying if I choose to be a muslim that makes me to a weak human being???? or did I misunderstand you????? Yes it takes a man to say no and stand to what he belives in, but and there is a but to it johnny I don't have anything with you being non muslim that is your own choice and no one has the right to force you or intiminade you to belive in what you don't whant to belive in. but it takes a man also to not be influenced by others, you see johnny belive in what you whant to belive in but before you do that be sure that it is the right thing. We often choose what the little "naf= life" whants, PS. solvation is given it's not something you can take charge of, and it's given by Allah the Almighty
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| | Saturday, January 27, 2001 - 06:57 am Acuudu Billahi MinashayDani RaJiim..Bismilaahi Raxmaani Raxiim... In The Name Of Allah, The Most Merciful, The Most Kind...Might the Lord WHo Created u both help u guys(warsame and johnny). Salaams
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| | Saturday, January 27, 2001 - 08:07 am Jamilla, It is true that one takes charge of his/her own life and therefore his/her own salvation. What this means is if I will be judged by God for doing right or wrong then my life is my responsibility and not a group decision. If I chose to worship God the way HE wants man to worship Him and it doesnt agree with others then I will not be intimidated to change because of the group. Before Islam God gave HIS Word to mankind in the form of laws and commandments. These are God's Truth to mankind that shouldnt be changed. YOu will never learn what God wants of you until you read for yourself and have a good understanding. It is best to have a good understanding of God's Word and to truely understand HIS salvation for mankind. Many are led by customs and traditions to a particular religion without finding out for themselves what is truth. Yes I know that all truth is redundant but we must build our own knowledge and understanding of what God wants without the religious political pressures. Many Muslims say that if you are not a muslim and beleive in Islam you will burn in hell - I disagree! Many muslims say that if you are a muslim man and you marry a christian woman its ok but if a muslim woman marries a christian man then she will burn in hell - I disagree! That is a classical double standard because those muslim men who marry christian women become more christian than christians - my own brother for one. Muslims men state that the men are in control of the family thats why muslim women cant marry christian men but in all households that I have seen its the woman who controls and teaches the children not the men. To me it is better for a muslim woman to marry a good man who keeps God's laws and commandments than to marry a muslim man who doesnt - just because he is muslim. To me it is better that a person studies Torah, Injel and Islam to be well rounded and with that knowledge make a sound choice of what path to follow. As I said before, we are in control of our own salvation and if you allow others to dictate their dogmas on you then its your own fault. To be honest I dont find no fault with the practice of islam but their are higher levels that islam dont address. As I said before God reads the heart of man and judges him based on his deeds and behaviors. It is better to know too much than too little when it comes to God's Holy word. And by the way Jamilla, salvation is given to those who keep God's laws and commandments but you must maintain your good deeds until the end. And to you Mr X thanks for your blessings but these are tactics muslims used to intimidate - to make it seem like we are doing something wrong for not being muslims. It will not work bro. We all must answer to God for our own deeds and God will judge us not you nor mankind !
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| | Saturday, January 27, 2001 - 08:27 am Warsame Magacaaga wanaagsanaa, mabda' aaguna madoobaa. Salaan iga hano allahana ku soo hanuunsho. Gaalada magacyada Soomaliga soo qaadata oo isku dayaya in ay halakan naac naac dooda ku soo qoraan ha tagaan meelaha diinta loogu doodo. Waxaad doontaan aamina waa idinka iyo ilaah wax idin dhex yaala. Qurankana waxaa jirta meelo lagu dhaqo oo aan halakan aheynee la taga meelahaa.
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| | Saturday, January 27, 2001 - 10:42 am I agree with you and at the same time I don't agree with you. You see johnny sometimes it's good to have your facts straight ok. I'm not offending you I'm just trying to point out things you missed. Let me correct you, you said :"Many Muslims say that if you are not a muslim and beleive in Islam you will burn in hell - I disagree!" What many muslims say and what Islam say it's not the same. That's all I have to say about that "Many muslims say that if you are a muslim man and you marry a christian woman its ok but if a muslim woman marries a christian man then she will burn in hell - I disagree" Once again what many muslims say and what Islam say is not the same. Not at all it's a big diffrence. Yes the man is allowed to marry a christian woman, but and there is a but it's better of if he marrys a muslim woman. and that is said. You are trying to portry islam as a injustice religion, but it’s not at all. Yes you are right about that the men who marry christian woman that they become more christian then the christians, and the reason to that is simple he didn't have his diin straight. Men who are allowed to marry christian woman are those who have their religion straight so that they can influence their children, but the most men who marry non muslim woman are men with weak faith. and johnny to god we are all equal he does not think better of the other gender he knows what's good for us and that is why we have diffrent obligations. But that does not make one inferior the other. And what muslim state and what Islam state is not the same. You see a muslim is a human being and a human being is not perfect, and Islam is not a human being and Islam is perfect. Islam is complete and the other religions is not complete. Can you honestly tell me that the other religions are complete?? It’s good that you study the three religions carefully. Then you can see for your self wich one who is correct because I my self found that the others are full of contradictions but Islam does not have any not at all, and Johnny I would be very glad if you could find only one contradiction in Islam, only one. Yeah I agree with you that we shouldn’t alow others to dictate their dogmas to us, becuse that wold be wrong. You can’t become muslim just becuse some one threatens you are forces you to, then the religion wouldn’t taste so good. I fully agree with you it’s better to know too much then to little of gods words, and johnny you don’t have to turn to the others just to look after Gods holy words because The Quran will do it for you. I'm in a hurry right now... so I finish some other time
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| | Saturday, January 27, 2001 - 01:41 pm Johnny, Do not judge a religion by it's people,rather, judge a religion by its message, its philosophy, its word. In reading your postings, you've been obviously assessing Islam by the individuals you meet. Also, you seem to be measuring you worth by the fact you're not going with the "group". My boy, have you left Islam because you wanted to retaliate, you want to be different? Study Islam, read the Quran, come to your senses.
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| | Saturday, January 27, 2001 - 01:42 pm Judgment Day...someone will be down on his knees repenting thinking how foolish he was to go astray. For now you may feel that you are the captain of your own destiny, but on this day you will no longer deny, for the chosen are few and you will dread the fire that lies in wait for your bones. So in this life you can blaspheme as you wish but in the next...all will know of the bane you are. Alas, you can now do your yoga and meditate but the truth lies some where with in your soul lurking behind all the layers of misconception.
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| | Saturday, January 27, 2001 - 07:33 pm My dear Jamilla, Not to be putting anyone's religion down but if a religion goes against what God has spoken to mankind then I will chose God's Word everytime. YOu asked for one example but I will give you two of how Islam goes against what God has said: 1). Dietary Laws for all mankind The Quran says it is halal to eat camel but it goes against God's Word: From the Torah *Leviticus 10:10 - And that ye may put difference between holy and unholy, and between unclean and clean; *Leviticus 11:4 - Nevertheless these shall ye not eat of them that chew the cud, or of them that divide the hoof: as the camel, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you. Islam says it is clean to eat camel and many muslims eat camel to this day. This is a direct violation to what God has commanded! There is a difference to eat unclean food out of ignorance but when there is a religious writing that goes against what God has said that is blasphemy! 2)The use of alcohol and drinks The Quran says it is a sin to drink alcohol but this goes against what God has written to mankind. This is concerning the feast days of God: Deuteronomy 14:26 - And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household, So you see Jamilla there are some contradictions between Quran and what God Himself has said. Anytime you have documentation of laws it is like a legal notice and God will judge the truth of your Quran. As for turning the blind eye about what I had written earier about marrying a man just because he is muslim not because he is good. You and many others fail to see the error of your faith. God blesses a man or woman because they are good not because they are christian or muslim. Search your mind and learn from the wisdom of your heart. Why shouldnt a good christian man marry a muslim woman if other muslim men rejects her? She has a life and needs like all others. Because it is written that it is better to marry than to burn. Do you think it is better for a muslim woman to marry a christian man or to go out and have sex without being married? Because that is what is happening today. These are the basics sister: if a man is good and a woman is good then God will bless them - end of story. WoW As you may know, it is human nature to associate the message with the messenger. Being Somali you know all to well about Mohammed Ahmad Grin (the left handed) who went into Somalia and Ethiopia with the slogan: Islam or die! They burned alot of Christian bibles but not all and cut out the tongues of all christians who didnt convert and who prayed to God. That example of message and messenger goes very negatively; especially after the Ethiopian King agreed to help the prophet Mohammed during his times of trouble. Sureal Your muslim intimidation tactics will not work here - use those techniques on women and weaker muslims who are unread and will listen to any one who acts like they know what they are talking about. As I said many times before, God judges the heart and the deeds of mankind not your association with a social-political-religious group. If we all followed God's laws and commendments individually we wouldnt waste our time on such organizations. And for others who read this posting I know you will say that both the Torah and Injel are corrupt but not so! Maybe that is why muslims invaders always tried to burn all the books of a country when they take over so the Quran will be the only book left - but that too didnt work. As you may or may not know already the Ethiopian Coptics Church have many Injels that were not affected nor corrupted by the Roman Emperor Constantine when Rome took over christianity. Also in Ethiopia are the Falashas Jews who still have uncorrupted copies of the original Torah. So the Quran didnt know about these books when it made its publication. Peace
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| | Saturday, January 27, 2001 - 10:20 pm aaabooy aabe//qa qabiil qabiil aan isku heeysanay haddana qolooyin kale oo diimo qalaad wata aa na soo galay? allow sahal amuuraha this should be a wake up call. balaayo daba la qabto maleh ee geeso la qabteey leedahay. daadka intoowsan ku qaadan ayaa laga hortagaa hadaad i fahmeeysaan qof walboow bal dib isugu laabo. maxaa arintan iyo balaayadaan nagu soo fool leh uga hortagi karnaa. dadkanse diimaha kale sheeganaayo qaarkood maba ah soomali ee watch out
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| | Sunday, January 28, 2001 - 01:57 am Johnny I am really sorry for you, and I hope that you one day come to your senses. The above statement you made is statements made by a lost man. Right now I'm very bussy so I can't use my own words as I whant to, cuse it will take me all day to write you all I know. And what you found is not contradictions all tha has it's explinations, you see johnny you have forgotten a very essential thing and that is WHAT GOD HAVE FOBIDEN CAN'T NEVER BE ALLOWED, AND WHAT GOD HAVE FORBIDDEN HAS IT'S EXPLENATION. I tell you about that later but now I think you need a lesson in what Islam is beacuse it acures to me that you really don't have a clue about it, the Islam you know is not the same as the one I know. But first before I do that, I have to correct you said:" Being Somali you know all to well about Mohammed Ahmad Grin (the left handed) who went into Somalia and Ethiopia with the slogan: Islam or die! They burned alot of Christian bibles but not all and cut out the tongues of all christians who didnt convert and who prayed to God. " Johnny what that man did and what Islam teaches is not the same, that man was an extremist. Honestly he didn't know Islam. Islam is more then that. Why would they kill a man with a monotesits faith, they don't have the right, he belives in God and that is the eccense. When Islam had it's glory days, when they had power. They didn't kill non-muslims, they allowed to them their own curches and they were free to live. This is lesson Nr 1 and you are free to comment it, as usal. 1. THE RELIGION OF ISLAM The first thing that one should know and clearly understand about Islam is what the word "Islam" itself means. The religion of Islam is not named after a person as in the case of Christianity which was named after Jesus Christ, Buddhism after Gotama Buddha, Confucianism after Confucius, and Marxism after Karl Marx. Nor was it named after a tribe like Judaism after the tribe of Judah and Hinduism after the Hindus. Islam is the true religion of "Allah" and as such, its name represents the central principle of Allah's "God's" religion; the total submission to the will of Allah "God". The Arabic word "Islam" means the submission or surrender of one's will to the only true god worthy of worship "Allah" and anyone who does so is termed a "Muslim", The word also implies "peace" which is the natural consequence of total submission to the will of Allah. Hence, it was not a new religion brought by Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) in Arabia in the seventh century, but only the true religion of Allah re-expressed in its final form. Islam is the religion which was given to Adam, the first man and the first prophet of Allah, and it was the religion of all the prophets sent by Allah to mankind. The name of God's religion Islam was not decided upon by later generations of man. It was chosen by Allah Himself and clearly mentioned in His final revelation to man. In the final book of divine revelation, the Qur'aan, Allah states the following: "This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion". (Soorah Al-Maa'idah 5:3) "If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah (God) never will It be accepted of Him" (Soorah Aal'imraan 3:85) "Abraham was not a Jew nor Christian; but an upright Muslim." (Soorah Aal'imraan 3:67) Nowhere in the Bible will you find Allah saying to Prophet Moses' people or their descendants that their religion is Judaism, nor to the followers of Christ that their religion is Christianity. In fact, Christ was not even his name, nor was it Jesus! The name "Christ" comes from the Greek word Christos which means the annointed. That is, Christ is a Greek translation of the Hebrew title "Messiah". The name "Jesus" on the other hand, is a latinized version of the Hebrew name Esau. For simplicity's sake, I will however continue to refer to Prophet Esau (PBUH) as Jesus. As for his religion, it was what he called his followers to. Like the prophets before him, he called the people to surrender their will to the will of Allah; (which is Islam) and he warned them to stay away from the false gods of human imagination. According to the New Testament, he taught his followers to pray as follows: "Yours will be done on earth as it is in Heaven". lesson nr 1 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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| | Sunday, January 28, 2001 - 02:05 am Ps. what do you mean with : use it on woman? First you talk about the double standards of Islam when it really is you with double standards. Johnny not every woman are easy to influence, as you know not all men are easy to influence. and I forgot to comment you , when you said :" it is human nature to associate the message with the messenger" yes it is human nature to associate the message with the messenger, but are you honestly saying that the messenger of Islam is that man Mohammed Ahmad Grin?? if you are then you are more lost then I thought you were. take care people
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| | Sunday, January 28, 2001 - 02:26 am i hate non-muslim people specialy somalian and u are lucky bro you are here couse if u were in somalia i would have killed u 100% so u better watch your back couse if i see u iam going to kill you!!!!
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| | Sunday, January 28, 2001 - 04:54 am Please, correct me if I am wrong. But I think a person who was looking for a non- Moslem Somali started this whole thing. His only objective was to find a non- Moslem he could relate to and he found that person in Johhny. Thus, it was totally wrong for anyone of us to even comment let alone offer them salvation. To: My dear sister Jamila. Please, don't take this the wrong way, but I would like not to respond to this guy anymore. For one thing, we don't know who he is and what he is up to. Is he for real or he is just trying to confuse us about Islam. Today, Islam certainly is the fastest growing religion in the world and that is not because, as he said, Moslems kill or maim people of other faiths or burn their books and force them to become Moslems but in contrast they have seen the truth and the equality that Islam teaches. Secondly, My sister, you too have realized how he distorts the facts and at the some time contradicts himself in a very short time. One time He talks in detail about how he thinks Islam is discriminating women by not allowing them to marry non-Moslems when man are allowed to, and he turns around and calls women week. So my sister, even though, I believe you obviously are very intelligent and well educated, I believe you should not waste your time and energy explaining Islam to a person who cares and thinks of Islam less. To the guy. well, now that you obviously found a religion that appeals to your sense, why don't you stick to it and let us enjoy ours and worship our god in peace. And if you are curious to know why we always talk about fear, here is the answer if it will make sense to you. All prophets, whether it was Issa, or Moses or Abraham or Mohammed (pbuh), whom god had sent to mankind come with one message (itaqu laah). They did not say love your god, they specifically asked their people to fear for God and that is what Islam is all about, if you don't fear for god you will burn in Hell Fire. This is not intimidation by Moslems; it is a fact only Moslems who worship Allah will seek paradise.
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| | Sunday, January 28, 2001 - 05:14 am To: All the Moslems. It now is very clear that Warsame and Johhny are the same person if you want a prove check the date the Msges were posted. Msg1-Friday, January 26, 2001 at 06:25 pm. Msg2-friday, january 26,2001 at 07:14 pm. My friends, this a clear sign of how low this person has sunk. He is clearly a person who is very troubled. I can only imagine that he did this just to get our attention. This person is nothing but a Satan and when we see something like this we should remmember Allah more and say Subhaana laah. To him. we are very strong. Islam is so fixed in our hearts that a troubled person like you can sway us from the right bath. accudi bilaahi mina shaaydaani rajiim. May allah protect all the Moslems.
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| | Sunday, January 28, 2001 - 05:41 am Jamilla, Well done sister.You are the best.And well versed in Islam.I coulnt have said more than you did.Islam needs people like you to stand for it.And reveal is true colour. Johnny, Brother you are not the first somali to cast doubt into the the Islamic faith,though i doubt that you are somali.Trust me it happens.Specially when you are young and confused and bombarded with so many iformations from different religions.And the less ignorant you are the more confused you become.I know in your past you asked yourself so many questions,as to which religion is the right one.What about if christianity is the right one.What about if Islam is the right one.What about if i choose this or that religion,and it happens to be the wrong one and i go to hell.In the end you have to settle for one.And in your case you choose christianity.Contrary to you,and amid all those confusion i choosed Islam.I got help from science.It made me make up my final decision.You see science is a proven facts and dont lie.A true religion must be based on science.And it must agree with scientific facts.Islam does.And it agrees with every scientific facts.And infact its more advanced so far that the level of scientific knowledge humanity has reached so far is far behind.Islam is talking about a level of science that the world of today couldnt even concieve of. On contrary christianity and judaism conflict head on with science.And dont have any scientific importance.It is so amazing that christian scientist have more respect for Islam than the common layman or even born muslims so speaking.In most cases in the Koran Allah is speaking to those with knowledge.Scientific knowledge.For they are the ones who could really understand what the Koran is talking about. So brother as Jamilla told you you have to deferenciate between Islam and the deeds of the muslims.90% of the muslim population dont practice Islam.Just like the way 99% of christians dont practice the true form of christianity.The bible ,the torah and the Koran are the books of Allah.They we sent down to a true prophet of Allah.Though both the bible and the torah were not perfectly preserved as in the Koran.The bible has to be upgraded every now and then in order to keep up with ever changing lifesyle or the political opinion of its believers.Hence the Koran doent change.It is too advance for its time that no one could even think of catching up with it let alone changing its content.I dont think any one with the right sense can call christianity a religion any more.It is more of a politacal doctrine than a religion.It goes and change with time.Trust me you are better of being a repuplican or a democrate,a nazi or hard liner comunist than a christian.In that way you will avoid all this hypocracy asociated with christianity and have goal in life.And talking about double standard,even politic have less double standard than christianity. To be honest with you i dont give a •••• if you are chriastian or an animal worshiper.All iam saying to you is increase your knowledge of science.You will find the answers to your questions and it will lead you to the true faith.A conrete proof...Isnt that what you are looking for. I agree with you one thing ....that the Ethiopians are the true christians left in the world.And for your information king Nagashi of Abysinian died as a muslim not as a christian.He was the first king ever to accept islam.Unlike others of his time like kisra ebarwis of persia...Whose arogance against islam and the disrepect he hard for Prophet Muhammad{pbih} lead him to his down fall and disintegration of his mighty empire. Final words....Islam is the religion of abraham,moses,solomon,john the babtist,jeramia,Noa,joshua,jacob and jesus.And all others in between.Allah sent mesengers and prophets to every comunity on earth.And they all spread the goodness and the one-ness of Allah.And Islam respect and recognise them all as the mesengers of Allah. Jesus never siad he is the son of God neither did he believed in trinity.Here is how the Koran describe Allah,in surat al-samat "say Allah is one.Allah the eternal besout of all.he begets none and nor was he begoten.And there is non comparable to him". So if you believe that jesus is the son of God..brother you are in a mortal lose.And its totally unscientific even in a cloning sense. You mentioned something about dietary contradiction in Islam.When Islam forbides somthing it has good scientific reason.For intance the swine.It is peoven in science that eating swine or it derivatives could lead to a complex medical problems.Same as taking intoxicant and all other forbiden stuffs.And of camel science cherish is milk and its meal.And Islam do the same.Properbly what you read in the bible is not the words of Allah but the words of the likes of king james who altered the the holy book.So who would you trust.A stone age homosexual called king james or the true words of your creator and the undeniable facts of science.Well it yours to judge.And good luck with your confusing and chaotic life.
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| | Sunday, January 28, 2001 - 06:25 am 1)SurReal. 2)Issa. 3)jamiila. Excellent job to all of you. I fear you have been drawn into an bottomless theological discussion. By a person that appears to defends the Christian faith of our neighbor Ethiopia, with no comprehension of yours. You see, is really hard to discuss with a person, prone to presenting his case, ignoring yours, and intent on subverting your believes. Each one of you presented Islam in the well educated manner that is so common of those with strong faith. I will refrain from adding to your excellent works. johnnyjake I have been far and wide in this world. I have read Torah and two versions of the bible. I can sit here and list quote after quote, as I present one from Mathew, you can quickly find me another from King James Version, which contradicts or thwarts my argument. Such is the manner I have dealt with Christians before. I really feel bad for prophet Issa (PBUH), for his massage even his birth was galvanized. When one looks at a faith and it's infallibility, one must take into consideration the historical context. To the Jews the chosen ones, from poor enslaved society god (Jehovah, Latinized Hebrew Uhova, aka ALLAH)came a faith. For their lack of respect and utter disregard to their maker and benefactor, ALLAH gave them Islam (submission) under Issa (Christ). 300 years prior to his miraculous birth, the Macedonia/Greeks overrun the land and instituted their tradition. Their tradition, that if a virgin was found pregnant, she can claim contraception with on of their gods, this was morally frowned upon and reasonably doubted but religiously accepted. The Gods of choice were APOLLO or ZEUS. Here came Mariam, of prophatic Lineage, blessed with child. To the antagonistic Jewish scholars and Greek intelligencia it was quiet reasonable to explain this miracle according to tradition. Mind you, the Jews were previously warned of the coming of this prophet (PBUH). After his short life on earth, he was impeded to expresses his massage, much like prophets before him. The gentiles, or non-Jews, found this half massage appealing and filled the rest themselves. Hence you have "Christianity". 600 years later(Jehovah, aka Allah)gave the brothers of the Jewish, the pagan ARABS, his last massage. All I can tell you is read the Quran before you come and discuss with me or any other Muslim, because the "book" is more than selves explanatory. As for your points I agree, god (Allah) did allow drinking previously, but he found his people too drunk to accommodate their duty, not to mention the immorality that comes with drinking. So for once and for all times, our maker gave us our final massage, this was not a request but an order. Submit to him that created you, don't assign any gods onto me, guide thy brothers on the right path, don't translate nor tran-illiterate my massage and live in peace. In exchange I promise you my presence and friendship after life. What could be better than to sit next to your creator, the all knower and talk to him as if he was your best friend. johnnyjake, I don't want to dig deeper in this theological room you created, I don't want to mention the many and various theological argument and conflict raised by the Ethiopian Coptic church of 1800's,I will explain that better for you some other time, when I obtain the appropriate texts. For now I will quote a line from the Quran against my better judgement, and fully knowing, that I will have to answer for this in the here-after. May Allah forgive me. "Laakum dinaacum, wa liyaa diin" you have your faith and I have mine.
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| | Sunday, January 28, 2001 - 07:06 am Jamilla, I didnt plan on starting a religious war with my posting but I see emotions are hot! Thats good because when emotions are hot then our minds will open later and hopefully learning will take place. It is true that all God's prophets submitted to God's Will throughout history but these were men and they made mistakes. ONLY Jesus submitted totally to God's WILL when HE died on the cross and was blessed with ever lasting life afterwards to be the First Born of the Dead who has risen. [I like this type of discussion because we all will learn.] As you may or may know already Islam considers many more people from the Torah as prophets than the "people of the scriptures (POTS)." For instance Adam, the first man who sinned by disobeying God's will by listening to his wife(Eve),is not considered a prophet by us. God told Adam not to eat from satan's Tree of Good and Evil (which is the Tree of Lies and Deception)in the midst of the garden. God told Adam that in that DAY that HE ate from that TREE HE would die. Man could have lived forever had Adam not sinned. Now Mankind was doomed by death; this is not the first death which is dying and going into the ground but the second death which is burning in the 'Lake of Fire'. In other words because of Adams sins he doomed all of mankind forever into the lake of fire. And sin can only be removed by death! The death of mankind. [I will do my best(with help from the Sprit of Truth) but I cant explain everything in one posting.] It is written that it greived God to have to destroy HIS creation and in heaven among all the hosts in heaven, God asked the question, ...WHO IS WORTHY TO OPEN THE BOOK OF THE 7th SEAL...? And the LAMB of God (before HIS named was changed to Jesus)agreed to open the Book of the 7th Seal and to do all in it that has been written. God and the Lamb of God had agreed that only death will take away mankind's sin and the Lamb will die for all of mankind as an offering of sin. As a result of HIS dying, all mankind belonged to HIM. As it is written, ...a body has thou prepared for me...to be transformed from spritual body to human body because spritual body cannot die! So the Lamb of God had to come as a man. He came through the lineage of David the king of Israel and was planted into Mary(of the tribe of Judah) by the Angel Gabriel. She was the only woman who had holy seed to bring forth birth of a human. As it is written, ...I don't come in my name (Jesus)but in the Father's name (the MOST HIGH GOD)who has sent me. Before HIS name is Jesus, the Lamb of God was known as Melchizedek - Priest of the MOST HIGH GOD, 'I AM' during the time of Moses, and 'YHVH' (Jehovah)before HIS adoption as the Son of God. This Melchizedek is the one who met Abraham after returning from battle and winning and bringing back his nephew LOT. Melchizedek met Abraham with HIS holy tools - Bread and Wine (symbolic of the blood and the body of Jesus the anointed by God) The God of Moses 'I AM' gave the Laws of God for mankind to live by. He appeared to Moses and spoke to Moses face-to-face. I AM also appeared to all of Israel in the wilderness. As it is written ...no one has ever seen nor heard the Father(Most High God) at anytime nor seen HIS form. So when the Lamb of God was borned as a man, HE was Son of Man(being born as a man, living like a man, and dying like a man)also adopted Son of God (being the firstborne from mankind to raise from the dead to live forever as God). This adoption took place as the MOST HIGH GOD anointed HIM King of Israel and of this world. When the Lamb of God returns to this world it will be to fight. Each of the 7 Books will be opened and the 7 vails of wrath will be pour out on this world. I will discuss those other prophets later but LOT is not a prophet to POTS (people of the scriptures)nor is Aaron Moses brother. Both these guys made sins. LOT had incest with his daughters and Aaron made a golden calf as an idol god while Moses was receiving the laws and commandments of God. For those who read this posting: I hope an pray that God will open up your heart so the light of truth and understanding will shine in. Peace
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| | Sunday, January 28, 2001 - 07:40 am I just can't resist doing a input in here, johnny do you know what the bible says about Prophet Mohammed ( PBUH) ?......Do you even know that the bible mentions him?????.......... I wait for your answer......it better be a good one.....  and to Issa bro I'm not taking it wrong way.thank you for the consern...but bro you see I'm not wasting any time at all.....this only brings me close to Allah and it only strengthens my belif....maybe he'll listen and maybe not.....but you see brother issa the reason I respond to him and give my spare time in here is that I know it's not only he who has left his faith..there are a lot of somalians who has done it or they are considering on doing it......so I just whant to inlight them before they dicide what they whana do.....but thank you anyway thanks dick .....
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| | Sunday, January 28, 2001 - 07:53 am I just can't resist doing a input in here, johnny do you know what the bible says about Prophet Mohammed ( PBUH) ?......Do you even know that the bible mentions him?????.......... I wait for your answer......it better be a good one..... and to Issa bro I'm not taking it wrong way.thank you for the consern...but bro you see I'm not wasting any time at all.....this only brings me close to Allah and it only strengthens my belif....maybe he'll listen and maybe not.....but you see brother issa the reason I respond to him and give my spare time in here is that I know it's not only he who has left his faith..there are a lot of somalians who has done it or they are considering on doing it......so I just whant to inlight them before they dicide what they whana do.....but thank you anyway thanks dick ..... lesson nr 2. this is an article I found read it..... THE MESSAGE OF FALSE RELIGION There are so many sects, cults, religions, philosophies, and movements in the world, all of which claim to be the right way or the only true path to Allah. How can one determine which one is correct or if, in fact, all are correct? The method by which the answer can be found is to clear away the superficial differences in the teachings of the various claimants to the ultimate truth, and identify the central object of worship to which they call, directly or indirectly. False religions all have in common one basic concept with regards to Allah. They either claim that all men are gods or that specific men were Allah or that nature is Allah or that Allah is a figment of man's imagination. Thus, it may be stated that the basic message of false religion is that Allah may be worshipped in the form of His creation. False religion invites man to the worship of creation by calling the creation or some aspect of it God. For example, prophet Jesus invited his followers to worship Allah but those who claim to be his followers today call people to worship Jesus, claiming that he was Allah! Buddha was a reformer who introduced a number of humanistic principles to the religion of India. He did not claim to be God nor did he suggest to his followers that he be an object of worship. Yet, today most Buddhists who are to be found outside of India have taken him to be God and prostrate to idols made in their perception of his likeness. By using the principle of identifying the object of worship, false religion becomes very obvious and the contrived nature of their origin clear. As God said in the Qur'aan: That which you worship besides Him are only names you and your forefathers have invented for which Allah has sent down no authority: The command belongs only to Allah: He has commanded that you only worship Him; that is the right religion, but most men do not understand ". (Soorah Yoosuf 12:40) It may be argued that all religions teach good things so why should it matter which one we follow. The reply is that all false religions teach the greatest evil, the worship of creation. Creation-worship is the greatest sin that man can commit because it contradicts the very purpose of his creation. Man was created to worship Allah alone as Allah has explicitly stated in the Qur'aan: "I have only created Jlnns and men, that they may worship me" (Soorah Zaareeyaat) 51:56 Consequently, the worship of creation, which is the essence of idolatry, is the only unforgivable sin. One who dies in this state of idolatry has sealed his fate in the next life. This is not an opinion, but a revealed fact stated by Allah in his final revelation to man: "Verily Allah will not forgive the joining of partners with Him, but He may forgive (sins) less than that for whomsoever He wishes" (Soorah An-Nisaa 4:48 and 116) --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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| | Sunday, January 28, 2001 - 08:18 am subxaanalaah you are certinatly lost...... that is the worst contradiction I ever heard...... when I posted my message I was surprised to see yours.......I honestly was...... Araon was not the one who made the golden calf..you are wrong the one who made the golden calf is the "bastard boy".....I tell you about him later.... and Lot (cs) was a prophet and he did not have an incest with his daughter he were a prohpet send by Allah Subxaanwatalla.... he and his family were blessed by Allah except his wife.... she belonged to thoose who stayed.the doomed ones.....you must have your facts straight.....this is wrong completly wrong I tell you about it láter I have to rush now..... But I hope Allah inlightens your dark soul.....cuse you are lost....very lost read this article..... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- According to the Quran every human being is honored just by virtue of being human before people are even categorized in terms of creed or breed. The Quran says "We have honored the children of Adam, provided them with transport on land and sea, and conferred on them special favors above a great part of our creation." (17:70) Islam emphasizes the oneness of Humanity as a family. "O mankind: fear your Guardian Lord who created you from a single self and created -out of it- its mate, and made from them twain scattered (like seeds) countless men and women." (4:1) All people are equally eligible for the basic human rights, including the right to freely chose one's religion without coercion, for within Islam the space of the "other" is well preserved and protected. Islam is not an exclusive religion, and no human being, clergy or otherwise, is ever permitted to set limits on God's mercy and forgiveness, or to speak on His behalf in assigning rewards or punishment. The ultimate judge is God Himself.. "your return in the end is toward Allah.. He will tell you the truth of the things wherein you disputed." (6:164 The Christians "Relate in the Book (the story of) Mary, when she withdrew from her family to a place in the East. She placed a screen (to screen herself) from them: then We sent to her Our angel, and he appeared before her as a man in all respects. She said 'I seek refuge from you to Allah (God) Most Gracious: (come not near) if you fear Allah'. He said 'Nay, I am only a messenger from your Lord (to announce) to you the gift of a pure son.' She said: 'How shall I have a son whereas no man has touched me, and I am not unchaste?' He said: 'So (it will be): your Lord said 'It is easy for Me: and (We wish) to appoint him as a sign unto people and a mercy from Us'.. it is a matter (so) decreed. So she conceived him, and she retired with him to a remote place. And the pains of childbirth drove her to the trunk of a palm-tree. She cried (in her anguish) 'Ah! would that I had died before this.. would that I had been a thing forgotten. But a voice called her from beneath (the palm-tree): Grieve Not! Your Lord has provided a rivulet beneath you; and shake toward yourself the trunk of the palm-tree and it will let fall upon you fresh ripe dates. So eat and drink and cool your eye. And if you see any human (person), say 'I have vowed a fast to God Most Gracious so this day I will enter into no talk with any human being.' At length she brought the babe to her people carrying him (in her arms) and they said 'O Mary! You have indeed done an amazing thing. O Sister of Aaron: Your father was not a man of evil nor your mother a woman unchaste!' But she pointed to the babe and they said 'How can we talk to one who is a child in the cradle?' He (the babe) said 'I am indeed a servant of Allah (God), He has given me Revelation and made me a prophet. And He has made me blessed wheresoever I be; and has enjoined on me prayers and zakat (alms giving) as long as I live. And made me kind to my mother and not overbearing or unblessed. So peace be on me the day I was born, the day I die, and the day I shall be raised up to life (again)." (19:16-33) Such is one narration of the story of Jesus in the Quran. The Quran mentions him as "Jesus" twenty five times, as the "Messiah" eleven times and as only the "Son of Mary" twice. Mary was mentioned by name thirty four times and as "The one who guarded her chastity" twice. We do not intend to give an exhaustive list since a few quotations should be sufficient to express the high esteem in which Jesus and Mary are regarded in Islam. We feel astounded and dumbfounded when we read notable scholars and specialists and, most painful of all, clergy imaging Islam and Muslims as the enemies of Christ. Conversely, many uninformed and misinformed Christians are astonished when we tell them the respect and love we have for Jesus and Mary even though we have doctrinal differences. "Behold! the angels said: 'O Mary: God gives you glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honor in this world and the hereafter" (3:45) "Christ Jesus the son of Mary was the messenger of God and His Word that He bestowed on Mary and a Spirit proceeding from Him" (4:171) "And (remember) her who guarded her chastity: We breathed into her from Our spirit, and We made her and her son a sign for all peoples" (21:91) Rebuking the Jews for not accepting Jesus the Quran says: "We gave Moses the Book and followed him up with a succession of messengers, We gave Jesus the Son of Mary clear signs and strengthened him with the holy spirit, Is it that whenever there comes to you a messenger with what you do not like, you are puffed up with pride? - some you called impostors and others you slay?" (2:87) Muslims also believe in the miracles that Jesus performed by God's leave and which the Quran mentions: "Then God will say: 'O Jesus Son of Mary: Remember My favor to you and to your mother. Behold! I strengthened you with the holy spirit so that you did speak to the people in childhood and in old age. Behold! I taught you the Book and Wisdom, the Torah and the Gospel. And behold! you make out of clay -as it were- the figure of a bird by My leave, and you breathe into it and it becomes a bird by My leave. And you heal those born blind and lepers by My leave. And behold! You bring forth the dead to life by My leave. And behold! I did restrain the Children of Israel from you when you showed them the clear signs: and the unbelievers among them said: This is nothing but evident magic" (5:110) The tone of praise widens to encompass also the Christians, both early Christians and those at the time of prophet Mohammad who declined the call of Islam, and inspite of the doctrinal differences we shall shortly explain. "Then in their wake (Noah, Abraham and the prophets from amongst their progeny) We followed them up with (others of) Our messengers: We sent after them Jesus son of Mary, and bestowed on him the Gospel, and We ordained in the hearts of those who followed him compassion and mercy" (57:27) "And nearest (among people) in love to the believers (Muslims) you will find those who say 'We are Christians'.. because amongst these are priests and monks, and because they are not given to arrogance" (5:82) Let us now consider some of the areas where Muslims and Christians have different beliefs. Foremost among these is that Muslims, believing in the chastity of Virgin Mary, say that Jesus was "created" by God without a father but do not say "begotten" by God. To them God is beyond such biological characterizations, for He is the eternal and the absolute, expressed in the Quran as: "Say: He is Allah (God) the one; Allah, the Eternal, Absolute; He begets not, nor is He begotten; and there is none like unto Him." (112:1-4) This literal sonhood of Jesus to God is at variance with the Islamic faith (although it is acceptable to say that, metaphorically, we are all the children of God), also unacceptable is the doctrine that Mary is the mother of God. Both Mary and Jesus are highly honored "human beings", and the fact that Jesus was born without a father does not, according to Islamic doctrine, make him "the only begotten son of God." The Quran relates: "The similitude of Jesus before God is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him 'Be'.. and he was." (3:59) According to the Quran, Jesus never claimed divinity for himself or for his mother "And behold! Allah will say 'O Jesus son of Mary: did you say unto the people 'Take me and my mother for two gods besides Allah?' He will say 'Glory to You. Never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing you would indeed have known it. You know what is in my heart though I don't know what is in Yours, for You know in full all that is hidden. Never said I to them aught except what You did command me to say: Worship Allah my Lord and your Lord. And I was a witness over them while I dwelt amongst them; when You did take me up You were the Watcher over them, and You are a witness to all things. If You punish them, they are Your servants; if You forgive them, You are indeed the Exalted (in power), the Wise." (5:116-118) Muslims therefore identify with such verses in the New Testament as Jesus saying "Why callest thou me good? There is none good but One, that is God" (Mark 10:18) According to the New Testament, when Jesus was on the cross he cried "Eloi Eloi, lama sabachtani?", translated as "My God, My God, why thy hast forsaken me?" (Mark 15:34) Obviously he must have been talking to someone else than himself. The whole concept of the Trinity and the Triune God has no place in Islam: "Say not three; desist, it will be better for you, for God is One God, glory be to Him, (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in heavens and on earth." (4:171) Muslims do not conceive that infinity can be divided or compartmentalized into three or accept the deification of Jesus or the Holy Spirit. They see that Jesus never said anything about three divine persons in a single Godhead and that his concept of God never differed from that of the earlier prophets who preached the Unity (never the trinity) of God. Moreover, the concept of the Trinity was unknown to the early Christians. Historically, it was decreed to be the creed of the Roman Empire in the Congress of Nicaea in the year 325 CE and was enforced by all the might of the empire under Emperor Constantine. The New Catholic Encyclopedia (1967, art. "The Holy Trinity", vol. 14, p 299) states: "The formulation 'one God in three persons' was not solidly established into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the 4th Century." Another area of variance is the story of the original sin. According to the Bible the devil tempted Eve to eat from the forbidden tree, and then she tempted Adam to do the same: thus committing the sin. They were then punished by being banished in shame to planet earth with more blame befalling Eve as the prime perpetrator, "Unto the woman He said: I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children, and thy desire shall be to thy husband and he shall rule over thee" (Genesis 3:16) The Christian teaching is that all human beings inherit that sin, and that every newborn is born in sin. In the Quranic version the devil tempted both Adam and Eve, they both sinned, they both repented, they both were forgiven, and that was the end of the original sin. "So Satan whispered suggestions to them in order to reveal to them their shame that was hidden from them (before).. he said to the two of them 'your Lord only forbade you this tree lest you become angels or such beings as live forever', and he swore to them both that he was their sincere advisor." (7:20-21) After their repentance, "Adam learnt from his Lord certain words and his Lord forgave him, for He is Oft-Returning, Most Merciful." (2:37) Adam was then raised to prophethood and the human race was delegated to planet earth as God's vicegerent. Satan swore to follow them and corrupt them, but God promised to provide them with such guidance as to immunize them against Satan's plots, except those who willed to turn their back to divine guidance. Every human being therefore is born pure, and it is later on that our choices blemish us and make us sinners. Sin is not something that children inherit from their parents. In this respect, Islam emphasizes that accountability is individual. "Whoever receives guidance receives it for his (or her) own benefit, and whoever goes astray does so to his own loss. No bearer of burdens can bear the burden of another" (17:15) The idea of vicarious sacrifice is therefore alien to Islam, and the claim that Jesus, or anyone else, had to be slain in atonement of human sins is unacceptable. God's forgiveness, in Islam, is to be sought through sincere repentance and doing righteousness, without need for bloodshed. Salvation is granted by the grace of God, "And those who, having done an act of indecency or wronged their own souls, remember God and ask for forgiveness for their sins - and who can forgive sins except God? - and never knowingly persist in the sin they have done: for such, the reward is forgiveness from their Lord.." (3:135) No sin is too great compared to God's forgiveness. "Say O My servants who have transgressed against their own selves: despair not of the mercy of God, for God forgives all sins, for He is Oft-Forgiving, Most- Merciful." (39:53) According to prophet Mohammad, God says: "You child of Adam, you approach me with an earthful of sins then you repent and worship me taking no associates with Me, and I approach you with an earthful of forgiveness." Devoid of the concept of atonement for sin by the blood of Jesus or of a chosen race (enjoying special privileges with God), Muslims' greatest hope in God's forgiveness, is by being themselves forgivers. The role of forgiveness, whether between individuals, tribes or nations is of the essence of Islam. Even when the law intervenes by meting a punishment commensurate with an aggression, the wronged party is encouraged to transcend justice to forgiveness, "The recompense for an injury is an injury equal thereto (in degree), but if a person forgives and makes reconciliation his reward is due from God" (42:40) "And let them forgive, and let them forgo: don't you love that God should forgive you?" (24:22) The seeking of God's forgiveness is a direct relation between the individual and the Creator, without intercession. To go to a fellow mortal for confession upon which he would say something to the effect of "Go my child, you have been forgiven", has no place in Islam. Forgiveness is the domain of God alone, and no one else is ever in a position to play His role. As a matter of fact there is no clergy institution in Islam. Although there is theological scholarship, there is no priesthood. With the hope that God's mercy is boundless, it is up to Him only to handle us with His justice (and He is the Absolutely Just) or with His mercy (and He is the Absolutely Merciful), and all our life we pray He treats us with His mercy rather than His justice. Repentance should also be sincere and serious, and if it resides in the heart it should show in the deeds. It would be a contradiction if someone stole my wallet and repeated "Forgive me God" even a million times. Justice should first be done when a third party is involved. These doctrinal differences are neither trivial nor ignorable, yet it would be foolish and counterproductive to fight one another or hate one another over them. Debate over them should abide by the highest ethics of civilized debate, "And dispute you not with the People of the Book except in the most kindly manner -unless it be those of them who wronged- but say 'We believe in the Revelation which has come down to us and in that which came down to you; our God and your God is one, and it is to Him we submit (in Islam)" (29:46) Although the views of the Christians in our eyes are no less serious than Islam's views in theirs, Islam is very keen on expounding the common grounds and enjoying their spaciousness "Say: O People of the Book.. come to common terms as between us and you, that we worship none but God, that we associate no partners with Him, that we erect not from among ourselves Lords and Partners other than God: if they then turn back then say 'Bear witness that we (at least) are Muslims (submitters to God's will)" (3:64) Beyond that, relations should remain peaceful and friendly. Having thus covered the religious (doctrinal) aspects, it will not be out of place to briefly survey the geo-political history between Muslims and Christendom. At the onset of Islam the world was dominated by two major powers, the Persian Empire to the East and the Roman to the West. As the Persians were fire worshipers and the Romans Christians, Muslims' sympathies naturally lay with the Christians. A long military conflict raged between the two empires, and the beginning of Islam witnessed a time of defeat for the Christians, but the Quran made the prophecy (which came true) that the tide would change: "The Romans have been defeated -in a land close by- but they, (even) after this defeat of theirs, will soon be victorious within a few years. With God is the Command in the past and in the future. On that day shall the believers rejoice with (that) victory from God, He gives victory to whom He wills, and He is Exalted in Might, Most Merciful" (30:2-5). Years later, however, Islam prevailed in the Arab peninsula and consolidated it into a state and an emerging political power right at the flank of both giant empires. Both saw it as a serious threat and started to instigate hostilities against it utilizing their client Arab tribes and later on their colossal armed forces. The outcome of that inevitable military confrontation was almost miraculous, comparing the meagerness of the Islamic forces both in number and in equipment in relation to their adversaries. In the East the Persian dynasty came to an end and the people, almost in totality, opted for Islam. In the West the authority of the Roman Empire was driven back, and in less than a century a pluralistic Islamic empire covered more than half of the known world at the time. This was the seat of the Islamic civilization that preserved the Greek heritage from annihilation by the Church and brought forth leaps of progress in the various disciplines of knowledge like medicine, chemistry, physics, astronomy, mathematics (algebra is an Arabic word and the science was invented by Muslims), music, philosophy, etc. apart from the religious sciences and Arabic literature and linguistics. People of all races and religions generously contributed. Europe got its first shock out of the dark ages by seeing a civilization without censorship (religious or otherwise) over the human mind. Arabic was the language of science, and the earliest European universities employed Muslim professors and for many centuries used the books of Muslim authors. Europe knew about the Greek philosophers by translating from Arabic, and when the press was invented most of its production was the translation of Arabic sources. As the Muslim Empire weakened Europe counter-attacked. Amongst the important historical developments were the Crusades in the East and the victory of Ferdinand and Isabella over Islamic Spain in the West. The latter gave birth to the Inquisition and the religious cleansing of Spain of Muslims and Jews and cleared the way for the discovery of the New World, the reign of the conquistadors and the establishment of state-run slave trade. The Crusades were an attempt to directly invade the Muslim heartland. At the time the justification was to free the Christian sacred places in Jerusalem from the Muslims, and for over two centuries the Crusades evoked a religious furor that still lingers over the Western mind and shapes Western culture in one way or the other. This continues even after contemporary mainstream Christianity has condemned the Crusades and branded them as being no more than colonialist driven wars that donned the cloak of Christianity while committing such atrocities that are an affront on Christianity itself. The word "crusade" (verb and noun) has settled in the language as a nice word, with a deeply entrenched psychological aftermath. We believe, as well as many Christians both clergy and laity, that Christendom should be re-educated on the Crusades in a spirit of soul-searching and self- appraisal, as already done with a large measure of success concerning the Spanish Inquisition and the German holocaust. A concerted effort to give the "Crusades" its true colours might be a crucial step in preparation for a New World Order, opening the gates of reconciliation between two blocks of humanity each comprising one billion people and perhaps helping to prevent similar evils from camouflaging a pseudo-religious aura, as in Bosnia and elsewhere in the world. It is not our intention here to expand on the Crusades any more than a few (sample) quotations from Christian authorship. Here is a Crusader's report of the occupation of Jerusalem by the first Crusade in July 15, 1099: "With drawn swords our people ran through the city; nor did they spare anyone, not even those pleading for mercy. If you had been there, your feet would have been stained up to the ankles with blood. What more shall I tell? Not one of them was allowed to live. They did not spare the women or children. The horses waded in blood up to their knees, nay, up to the bridle. It was a just and wonderful judgment of God" (Kohn N., The Pursuit of the Millennium, 1957, p.68). In 1202 the fourth Crusade took off from Venice and on the way called in at Christian Constantinople where they rampaged the city and inflicted such atrocities that the Pope himself rebuked his own crusaders in a message saying: "It was not against the Infidels but against Christians that you drew your swords. It was not Jerusalem that you captured, but Constantinople. It was not heavenly riches upon which your minds were set but earthly ones. Nothing has been sacred to you. You have violated married women, widows, even nuns. You have despoiled the very sanctuaries of God's Church, stolen the sacred objects of altars, pillaged innumerable images and relics of saints. It is hardly surprising that the Greek Church sees in you the works of the Devil." (Gascoigene, Bamper: The Christians, 1977, Publ. Jonathan Cape, London, p.119) If this was what the Crusaders did to Christian Constantinople, one could imagine what they did to the "Infidel" (!) Muslims. One of the significant milestones of modern times, however, was the radical shift of the views of the Holy See on Muslims that should hopefully work as a catalyst for better understanding between Muslims and Christians. Whereas in 1095 Pope Urban II (also known as Urban the Blessed), who was the first to call for the Crusades, characterized Muslims as "Godless people, idolaters, enemies of Christ, dogs, chaff destined for eternal fire" etc., the Nostra Etate of 1965 under Pope Paul VI sees Muslims in an entirely different light. "Upon Muslims, too, the Church looks with esteem", the document says, and proceeds to expound that Muslims adore the One God, the God of Abraham with whom the Islamic faith is happy to associate itself, and how they worship, pray and give alms, and revere Jesus and his virgin mother and consider him the prophet and messenger of God. Ever since the Crusades, the relation between Europe and the Muslim world was distorted by the colonialist agenda of the European countries, and after World War I almost all Islamic countries were in the grips of European colonialism. A long struggle ensued that secured political independence, but colonialism merely took another from, neocolonialism headed by the United States of America, which does not depend on occupation armies but on economic leverage. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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| | Sunday, January 28, 2001 - 10:54 am My Dear Sweet Jamilla, Why do you always try to be right when you know you are wrong. You just want to beat a brother down. IF you were my wife you would beat me down everyday with your Quran on a daily basis - heeheehee! You overwhelm me with continous jiggerish from false prophets then you ask me a silly question like "...do you know that the prophet Mohammed is written in your bible...?" My question to you is where? Where does it speak about your prophet Mohammed anywhere in the Torah or the Injel???? Secondly, I am so proud of you for not being intimidated by others into not discussing topics with me. Afterall we both will learn something from each other. On your point about LOT being a prophet of God - I disagree. Abraham is the prophet in that HE communicated with God not LOT, however the angels did come to him while he lived in Sodom and Gomorra. LOTs wife was turned into a pillar of salt because she disobeyed the angels who told her not to turn around and look back. But to POTS (People Of The Scriptures) we dont call him a prophet at all. And it is written that his daughters thought that they were the last survivors on earth after God destroyed Sodom and Gomorra, and they got their father drunk to have a baby so that they could keep all humanity alive. We, POTS, don't beleive that Aaron was a prophet neither. In fact Moses had to plead and beg God not to kill Aaron for making the golden idol calf. It really doesnt matter who fashioned the golden idol but Aaron was in charge of the camp while Moses was in the mountains talking with God. So Aaron was responsible. As it is written, Aaron anounced to the camp of Israelites ...here be your gods oh Israel...(refering to the golden calf idol). Jamilla here is a question for you and others: If Islam is the religion of choice and it is written in arabic, then why did God say Himself that he will destroy the language of the Egyptian sea (arabic)? Here is another question for you: As it is written, God said,...out of all the families of the earth - Israel only have I known...Also written is ...with Israel are the Oracles of God... God chose Israelites to be HIS prophets and messengers and to teach all mankind about the laws and commandments of God. The question is we know that your prophet Mohammed is a Hebrew because he comes from the line of Abraham I was told, but if he is a true prophet of God he would have to be an Israelite - is that possible???????? There is not one prophet in the bible outside of Abraham and Isaak that were not Israelites. HOw be it that God changed HIS protocol for Mohammed??? Peace I will not flood you with writtings of others if you will not do the same. thanks
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| | Sunday, January 28, 2001 - 11:40 am JonnyJake, Answer for question one: Arabic was not the language of Egypt. Egypt was arabized by the arab muslims conquerers. Answer for question two: Mohamed (pbuh) came from prophet Ismail's line NOT Issac. Lastly but not least, prophet Ibrahim was a MUSLIM.
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| | Sunday, January 28, 2001 - 11:42 am You Johny, I saw before that you don,t know what you have chosen and your original religion which you disobeyed, really you are not worth to talk to you, so make sure what are calling the people to follow, otherwise you are going to know your kufri an other day, all in all the God guirds you and us.
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| | Sunday, January 28, 2001 - 12:52 pm Hello Young Somali Sister - I am glad you joined our discussions - peace to you! Your answer #1 arabic is not spoken in egypt before the muslim conquerors. Reply: As you know that Ishmael (father of all arabs) is the son of Abraham the Hebrew and his mother Haggar the Egyptian. When they lived with Abraham and went on their own Ishmael spoke his mother's tongue (language)Egptian. Ishmael also married a Hamite woman and thereby establishing the language of the 13 princes of arabia. As you recall, I stated, it is written that God will destroy the tongue of the Egyptian sea (Red Sea area - this includes all of arabia, sudan egypt etc) the language here is arabic. your other answer: Ishmael was not of the lineage of Isaaq - thats truth and that is my point. God only dealt with the promises made to Abraham, Isaaq and Jacob (Israel) So if the prophet Mohammed was not in Issaq's lineage then was he a true prophet of God????? All of God's prophets have been from Isaaq's lineage that's who God made the promises with. It strikes me that Mohammed knew so much about the Torah because, as you know he told Ali ...thou are like Aaron unto me... so Mohammed was either a Israelite or he knew and learned the Torah very well. To say that Abraham was a muslim means that he did God's will. This is true but the word muslim and islam has such a negative cannotation to it that most POTS would disagree with you. To be a muslim is like a title to say that one has surrender his will to God. If this is true then are there really any muslims around???????? If a person is true muslim then he would be fasting and praying all the time and communication with God. Do you really put yourselves up to the same level as all the prophets who you call muslim????? If not then another title is needed.
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| | Sunday, January 28, 2001 - 01:02 pm Dear Seefu Laahi masluulah, Regarding your statement that I dont know what I have chosen but the keyword in your statement is "I have chosen". You see if I am right or wrong I will answer for my actions not anyone else. If you will read the Torah, INjel and the Quran as I have done you will get enough information to make a well rounded decision on which path you MUST follow. I cannot speak for anyone else but I want to make sure of my salvation with God and not be led down the wrong path because of traditions and other cultural intimidations. It is written that we should seek the truth for ourselves with an open heart. We must take charge of our own life and stand tall for our decisions. But if you think about it if you follow God's laws and commandments you cant go wrong! Being labled a christian or muslim dont matter. Just do what you can to follow God's laws! Read and study and show yourself approved. Dont be led away with the hype - find out for yourself and stay true to God's laws! Peace
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| | Sunday, January 28, 2001 - 05:37 pm For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 1:7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. 1:8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. 1:15 John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me. 1:16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. 1:19 And this is the record of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, Who art thou? 1:20 And he confessed, and denied not; but confessed, I am not the Christ. 1:21 And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No. 1:22 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? that we may give an answer to them that sent us. What sayest thou of thyself? 1:23 He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias. 1:24 And they which were sent were of the Pharisees. 1:25 And they asked him, and said unto him, Why baptizest thou then, if thou be not that Christ, nor Elias, neither that prophet? 1:26 John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not; 1:27 He it is, who coming after me is preferred before me, whose shoe's latchet I am not worthy to unloose. 1:28 These things were done in Bethabara beyond Jordan, where John was baptizing. 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. 1:30 This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is preferred before me: for he was before me. 1:31 And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water. 1:32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him. 1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost. 1:34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God. 1:35 Again the next day after John stood, and two of his disciples; 1:36 And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God! 1:37 And the two disciples heard him speak, and they followed Jesus. 1:38 Then Jesus turned, and saw them following, and saith unto them, What seek ye? They said unto him, Rabbi, (which is to say, being interpreted, Master,) where dwellest thou? 1:39 He saith unto them, Come and see. They came and saw where he dwelt, and abode with him that day: for it was about the tenth hour. 1:40 One of the two which heard John speak, and followed him, was Andrew, Simon Peter's brother. 1:41 He first findeth his own brother Simon, and saith unto him, We have found the Messias, which is, being interpreted, the Christ. 1:42 And he brought him to Jesus. And when Jesus beheld him, he said, Thou art Simon the son of Jona: thou shalt be called Cephas, which is by interpretation, A stone. 1:43 The day following Jesus would go forth into Galilee, and findeth Philip, and saith unto him, Follow me. 1:44 Now Philip was of Bethsaida, the city of Andrew and Peter. 1:45 Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph. 1:46 And Nathanael said unto him, Can there any good thing come out of Nazareth? Philip saith unto him, Come and see. 1:47 Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him, and saith of him, Behold an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile! 1:48 Nathanael saith unto him, Whence knowest thou me? Jesus answered and said unto him, Before that Philip called thee, when thou wast under the fig tree, I saw thee. 1:49 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel. 1:50 Jesus answered and said unto him, Because I said unto thee, I saw thee under the fig tree, believest thou? thou shalt see greater things than these. 1:51 And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man.
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| | Sunday, January 28, 2001 - 06:59 pm TO THE SO CALLED JJOHNYJAKE. LISTEN KUFRI, U R A PIECE OF A ••••. 1ST U HAVE TO KNOW THAT ALL OTHER HOLLY BOOKS BEFORE QU'AAN IS NOT GOOD TODAY AND ALLAH SAI FOLLOW THE QU'AAN. IN THE QU'AAN ALLAH ALSO SAID THERE'S NO RELIGION BUT MUSLIM. I SENSED UR POSTINGS THAT U SPENT ALOT OF TIME READING SOMETHING ELSE WHY DON,T U READ QU'AAN? I ALSO SENSED U FEELING GUILTY 'CAUSE U KNOW THAT WHAT U DOING IS WRONG. BUT LET ME TELL U SOMETHING U DON'T WORTH TO BE CONVERSED WE WILL STICK WITH OUR MUSLIM FAITH WHY DON'T U STICK WITH THE PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE WHAT UY BELIEVE?? SMOKE IN THE HELL UR MURTAD. EVEN IF U R JOKING.
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| | Sunday, January 28, 2001 - 07:37 pm johnnyjake: i have some questions for U? how many different versions of the bible are there? how authentic is the bible? lets take mathew, mark, luke, john...they haven't seen jesus and they were centuries after jesus...so how did they write bibles?... and about the trinity... there is the father the holy ghost and jesus... they believe whatever one does all three do... wherever one goes all three go... whatever happens to one happens to all three... that sounds good...it creates unity... all christians believe that jesus was dead for atleast three days...some believe that he was dead for five...some believe that he was dead for more than that...but that is not the case here...i have 1 question for u: since whatever happens to one happens to all and all three are dead, who was in charge of the universe for those 3 days or five days or whatever days...
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| | Sunday, January 28, 2001 - 09:02 pm Jamilla Thank you sister. you put tears into my eyes.Honestly.Only the words of truth would do that. johnny, Trust me brother your words has no taste and you are fighting a lost course.So give it up.And one more thing....hamitic people do nto speak arabic,they speak a collection cushitic languages including Somali,berberi,and toureg and those of early Egyptians.And Arabic wasnt the language of Egypt.And there was no arabs in Egypt before 8th centuary. Read closely at what you posted.In the bible you will find the words of god,that of jesus and those of his followers presented as the words of God.Where as in the Koran the only one speaking is Allah.the words of Muhamad{pbuh} and those of his followers are in separate books.So look again and explain to us why you have all those speakers in your holy book, and presented as the words of God?Does this make the bible credible?Is truely{ most of it}the words of man just like me an you. You can believe what you want but rest asured that no one here will fall for what you fall for.Iam very confident that my well learned brothers and sisters here would take care of you.Jamilla and the others keep it up.You make me feel proud.
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| | Monday, January 29, 2001 - 01:48 am PORR JONNY WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO YOU TO MAKE YOU LOSS YOUR BELIVE I NOW THAT YOU ARE NOT THE ONLY ONE BUT WHY THAT IS WHAT I WHAT TO NOW YOU HAD THE HONER OT BE BORN A MUSLIME THAT HAS TO BE THE GREAST HONER OFALL TIME. AND GOD SAID THAT ANY ONE THAT CHANGES FROM MUSLIM TO ANOTHER BELIVE SHOULD BE KILLED. MORE LATER.!!!!!!!!!!
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| | Monday, January 29, 2001 - 01:59 am Another heated debate! Atlas emotions are high again but thinking is gone. Dick your concern about what is hamatic and shematic languages. If it is true that Ishmael was the father of the 13 princes of arabia then their language would be the language of their father Ishmael - agreed? So if Ishmael spoke his mother's language (Haggar the egyptian maid) [because as you know, they left Abraham and went into the wilderness] then that means that he spoke a Hamitic language not Shematic like Abraham. Also Ishmael married an Egyptian woman so I dont see how arabic is different from the old egyptian language. There have probably been some adaptations with other peoples like the Midianites of Arabia but Moses(the Egyptian Israelite) could speak that language with his father-in-law Jethro. So you see if you did research of that area back in that time you will learn that the whole area was part of the land of Kush a Hamite tribe. The King of that area was Nimrod the Kushite son of Ham. So it stands to reason that all people in Arabia spoke some form of Hamite language. Nubian Boy I will not even reply to you since you like to eat from where you xxxx. There is no need to be rude of use foul language. This is a discussion - we are not making atom bombs here - so it aint that serious bro! Wisdom there are many versions of the bible but only ONE TRUTH - God's Word! All men should seek God's truth not look for things to discount God's Word. There is only ONE LAW for all mankind! And if you beleive those words you will spend more time finding that truth instead of wasting time trying to find fault with everything in the world. Peace
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| | Monday, January 29, 2001 - 02:49 am JohnnyJake, Indeed there is only one LAW for all mankind and if YOU (johnnyJake) believe those words, YOU (JOhnnyJake) will spend more time finding that truth instead of wasting time trying to find fault with everyone in this page, hear me JohnnyJake! JohnnyJake, the Old Egyptian language was the common language in daily use about 4000BC untill the 11th century AD. During the Middle Ages, it was replaced by ARABIC and expired as a spoken tongue. Now the ancient Egyptian language is a dead language and only continues as a fossilized form in liturgical usage by the Coptic (Christian) Church in Egypt. JohnnyJake, you are right when you said that Ibrahim had left behind Ismail and his mother Hagar (the egyptian maid) in the Arabic peninsula. But what you may have forgotten was that some people (ie arabs) did found Hagar and her son and did ask her permission to settle down with her. And that Ismail did grow among those people. JohnnyJake, i will leave all doubts behind in trying that you are targeting to confuse somali youth with weak faith in their religion. Rather i will regard you as a truth seeker. But as a truth seeker...i am giving you a HONEST advise...this is NOT the Right Place you can find the truth you are looking for. Good Luck my brother in humanity and I pray Allah that He guides you. The real guidance is from Allah only, May He have mercy on our weak souls, amiin. Lastly but not least, Allah (swt) said that He will protect Quran from all evils. Who are you to refute what Allah said!!! Subhan-Allah. Peace to you
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| | Monday, January 29, 2001 - 01:03 pm I am so glad that you all are now coming to your senses as not to continue this conversation with apparently this disturbed person. If he is not what I strongly believe A KAFIR then what happened to Warsame? Was Warsame someone he created and then killed so he could have this baseless debate with us?. Secondly, you said that we would learn from each other. Honestly, what do you think that we will learn from you? Every thing you wrote was a lie and distortion. We know our religion and we are very happy with it. So, why don't you disappear and look for your kinds. Do you think we will reason with you and accept you stand against Islam? Dream on man, as my brother said "lakun diinakun walii diini”
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| | Monday, January 29, 2001 - 02:30 pm First of all I must say thanks to you all for your participation. Some I have learned from and others are just wasting my time and theirs with verbal attacks - it shows a lack of self-esteem and knowledge. As you know Issa this forum is for Non-Muslims. Do you think that only muslims have views and opinions? This is what makes the Somalinet the great communications channel that it is - people express themselves. Issa you and many other so-called muslims have a bully mentality! If anyone thinks different from the NORM - attack them! There was one fool who gave me a death threat because he lacked intellect and is motivated by mob-muslim thug action of threats and intimidations. This same mentality causes wars and fights among brothers. Just think for one moment, why should you be so concerned if I or others are not muslims? Does the thought bother you that much???? Is your life so shallow that you have to be bothering someone else and not mind your own business. Is your salvation so guarantee with God that you have to get into other peoples lives? ISSA what is wrong with me reading the Torah, Injel and the Quran and getting information and learning???? ISSA what is wrong with me because after I have read all these books I made a decision about MY LIFE to choice a different path than islam????? Does islam force people to join it???? Dont I have a free choice to choice what to beleive in??? Why does it bother you????? ISSA what is wrong with me taking control of my own life and salvation and not being bullied or intimidated into something that I dont want????? If I make a mistake, it was my decision that caused the mistake not you or the group forcing me into something that I dont want. If my path is wrong then it is up to me and my creator - not you and other muslims. My decision was based on evaluations. I didnt try to read the Torah or the Injel with a bias mind but with an open heart. If God wanted to lead me to islam then it would have happened. But the true test is praying about it and seeking the truth with an open heart - not biased. I have done my research and I have prayed and I have made my choice! End of story.
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| | Monday, January 29, 2001 - 02:57 pm Dear Young Somali Sister, Thanks for your input. You bring so much positive energy into this discussion. There was another sister Jamilla who I learned alot from - but now she is lost or intimidated to stay away. Anyway sister I have to go with MY Belief System! I am seeking truth and understanding everyday. God has led me to Truth and has opened my heart to understanding. As the sayings go, ...sometimes you have to go outside of the camp to find God...That means sometimes you have to stop what you are presently doing and change paths. The power of God will fill your life when that happens. I am not saying that you don't have truth and understanding but I am just telling you what worked for me. There is one factor that must exist in books of truth: The Law and the Testamonies - the law and the testamonies - without both there is no light (truth) in them. Fortunately the Quran has bits of both the Law (Torah) and the Testamony (Injel)but it is not comprehensive. Regarding Haggar and Ismael growing up with those people in Arabia - that is just my point. Those people were Hamites. Arabic and Israelite Hebrew is made up Hamitic languages. Remember Nirod (Kushite king of Babal) ruled all of that area and his people populated from the Tigra River to all of Africa (Land of Ham). I appreciate your input sister :-) peace
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| | Monday, January 29, 2001 - 03:02 pm Kanaxoow nafta waa!!!!! To:Warsame Bro here is onother agnostic Somalian, which means I don't disbelieve and I don't believe GOD and his religions. that means whether the God exist or no it is not my business nor my concern. Please don't confuse agnosticism with atheism (which categorically denny in the existence of God). As we have already seen a lot of ignorant readers will call me Kufaar, gaal, iwm... you can save your energy to someone or somewhere else cuz I already went through all those freaking words that have only intimidating meanings to somebody but nothing to me. Johnyjake and Jamiila I appreciated your civilized discussion, though as I said both religions are not my business. The rest of you Guys, you need to upgrade your brain.
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| | Monday, January 29, 2001 - 03:19 pm Brother Toore - Welcome to the forum! Please join in on our discussions and tell us how you had the courage, and I do mean courage to swim upstream from islam? HOw did it happen and why you feel as you do? It is refreshing to fine brave somali brothers who will stand for what they beleive and take control of their own lifes without fear of being bullied or intimidated. I think we can learn alot from you and brother Warsame if he wasnt lost. peace
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| | Monday, January 29, 2001 - 04:28 pm first i would like to thank my lovely sister Jamila.Jamila thanks for ur lovely work and may allah "swt" bless u for the good work. u have said enough to tell someone that the islam is the only religion that allah "swt" choisen for this world. eventhough i didn't read most of the johny's postings, but i think u taught him what islam is about basicly, and u answered his questions. it's up to him whether he excepts the right faith or not. thanks again sis Mr johnyjake I know u r not somali, so please go to where ur fellows are. this site is designated for only and the only somalians. ur non-somali so keep it out. but it doesn't matter i'll send an e-mail to the somalinet administration and then they'll get rid of ur topic. To Jamila Again sis i don't know what to say to u. u made me love my religion so much. u don't know how much i apprecited ur posting. i read every single of ur posting and they were so sweet to read. Johny i don't think any one reads your posting eccept Jamila who wanted to respose ur senseless argument. Jamila keep it up sis Love u jamila just for the sake of Allah
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| | Monday, January 29, 2001 - 05:22 pm Mr KW, It is not my topic its Warsame topic - I am just a participant like you. I guess you must feel that I am a threat to your beleive system - if you are so secure in what you beleive then why do you want to have this topic removed. It says for non-muslims so you chose to provide input - no one forced you. I was replying to Warsame and everything took off from there. If you want to use your time in a good manner why dont you try talking to some of the participants who use vulgarity in their postings. These discussion are supposed to be civilized. And again if you dont like the topic then dont particpate - thats simple? peace
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| | Monday, January 29, 2001 - 05:30 pm Johnnyjake Because the Bible seemingly contains errors, therefore the bible is not god's word. The Quran on the other hand is free from discrepancies& this is the proof that the Quran is from god since Sura4:82 states: "Do they not ponder on the Quran? Had it been from other than Allah, they would surely have found there in much discrepancy" The Quran also states; "If this is not what it claims to be, then all you have to do is this or this to prove it false" In 1400 no one has been able to do "this or this" and thus one has to accept its authenticity. "Prove it wrong" If you write an exam, one cannot give the teacher a note and say "This is perfect.There is no mistakes in it. Find one if you can." The teacher would not be able to sleep until he found a mistake. This is the way the Quran approaches mankind, a feature that is unique to the Quran which no other scripture can ever come near. Read the Bible to understand its meaning and message.It is the ERRORS in the BIBLE that prove that the Quran is not from god. For instance, Where in the Bible does Jesus(Pbuh) ever explicitly say "I am God" or "Worship me?" I dare you to find it because other Christian scholars could not do other than saying "You just have to believe" Can you answer me, has god begotten a son? Do you believe in Trinity? I will let you know why the Christian scholars could not answer these two questions next time. I will also let you know and will Quote to you that our beloved prophet Mohammed(Pbuh)is mentioned in your bible.Most Christians don't know that do they?
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| | Monday, January 29, 2001 - 06:07 pm Dear Mr Edil, Kw, Toore, Dick, Warsame etc etc That same voice rings through in your writing so why you hiding your identity? Look brother dont be ashamed to learn! Right now you are like a bottle filled with water and nothing else can go in you. If you really wanted answers to you questions you would read my posts above. All your questions have been answered. However there is no such thing as christian scholars with understanding of God's Word. Because God didnt give HIS Word to scholars to understant but to HIS Chosen people Israel to teach all the sons of Adam. You have your Roman Catholics christians who stole and put themselves in place as the authority of christianity but not so! Its not their charge to understand Gods Word and teach it. God only gave HIS WORD to Israel no other family on earth. It is stated many times that God only deal with Israel. Thats why I asked the question was the Islamic prophet Mohammed a Israelite. If he wasnt then that doesnt go with God's protocol for prophets. I also gave 2 examples of how the Quran goes directly against what God said HIMSELF. There is a BIG Difference in discrepancies and out and out controdictions! If you dont want to read my earier postings I will tell you what the contradictions are: Eating of camel is halal in the Quran but God said directly not to eat it. Drinking wine and strong drinks-this is a haram in Islam but God said it acceptable to drink wine or strong drink Trinity there is not such thing as a trinity that is teaching from Euro-Roman Catholics- westerners. (Read the posting "...In the Begining was the WORD, and the WORD was with GOD and the WORD was God..." that will explain alot to you. Your other question about has God begotten a son has be explained thoroughly earier - all you have to do is scroll up and read my posting about this subject. I will answer all your questions that you have - forget about christian scholars - I will kick the truth to you. peace
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| | Monday, January 29, 2001 - 08:18 pm A MUST READ FOR johnnyjake: how can we have a discussion when u r not answering my questions...or is it that these questions put a doubt in your heart and you r afraid of facing those doubts...here are my questions again... i'll start with the foundation of christianity since the foundation is the most important part... it is the trinity... there is the father, the holy ghost and jesus... they believe whatever one does all three do... wherever one goes all three go... whatever happens to one happens to all three... that sounds good...it creates unity... all christians believe that jesus was dead for atleast three days...some believe that he was dead for five...some believe that he was dead for more than that...but that is not the case here...my question for u is: since whatever happens to one happens to all and all three are dead, who was in charge of the universe for those 3 days or five days or whatever days... the idea of trinity is what confuses christian ppl and that is the biggest reason why so many christians are converting into muslims...even the priests don't understand it... AND THE TRINITY IS SUPPOSED TO BE THE FOUNDATION OF CHRISTIANITY...IF THE FOUNDATION IS NOT CLEAR THAN WHAT IS GOING TO BE CLEAR... how many different versions of the bible are there? the answer is 33,000 bibles the least...and none of them similar lets take mathew, mark, luke, john...they haven't seen jesus and they were centuries after jesus...so how did they write bibles?... and what were their last names...no one even knows their last names... the so-called Saint Paul was killer...he slaughtered christians were ever he saw them all of his life...until he woke up one day and said he had a dream about jesus telling him to continue from where he left... and he wrote 15 more books which were added to christianity without any hesitation... that is like Hitler, after killing the jews in WW11 he says to the jews "i had a dream last night about jesus" and he writes 15 books and those books are added to Judaism... that is how dumb it looks like...and the christians accepted it without any hesitation... so ppl judge for yourself: HOW AUTHENTIC IS THE BIBLE WITH IT IS SO MANY AUTHORS AND SO MANY VERSIONS? it is not authentic at all... how do u feel when u r in a course and they keep on upgrading the text book every month...u gonna be mad at them for making u buy a text book every month...ppl are playing with your money and u have the right to be mad... BUT JOHNNYJAKE HOW DO U FEEL WHEN PPL ARE PLAYING WITH YOUR FAITH LIKE THAT?... u don't have to answer the last question...keep that to yourself...
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| | Tuesday, January 30, 2001 - 01:58 am Well bro Wisdom :-) At last a serious question from you. By the way your question(s)were answered in my earier postings but I will do it again and again and again until you hear my screaming out your answer! YOUR QUESTION: "since whatever happens to one happens to all and all three are dead, who was in charge of the universe for those 3 days or five days or whatever days... " MY ANSWER: The trinity that you speak of consists of 3 entities - The MOST HIGH GOD, THE LAMB OF GOD (Jesus)and Gabriel (angel). There is a protocol (structure to actions)that takes place with God. The Most High God gives a command to The Lamb of God - Jesus, Jesus gives the command to the angel Gabriel (The Holy Sprit Of Truth) and Gabriel takes the command to mankind. 3 actions = ONE Commandment from the MOST HIGH God. 3 separate entities working together as ONE. That is my explaination to you bro - you can accept it or find fault in it. YOUR CHOICE! Concerning the confusion that you speak of about how long Jesus stayed in the grave death: All this was prophesized that "...as like Jonah, who stayed in the belly of the whale (great fish) for 3 days and 3 nights, so will the Son Of Man stay in the Grave for 3 days and 3 nights. As I said earier the confusion of christianity starts from the European Roman Catholics controlling it and misteaching it. It was not given to them by God to teach Mankind but only to the Israelites. Only with the Israelites are the Oracles of God! That is like a chinese reading a book and trying to teach the world about Somali culture and languages and all those special things that make up somalia. Who better to teach this subject a Chinese or a real Somalian? It is the same when you tell me of all these idiotic occurance of peoples confusion over christianity - it is writen that these Euro-Roman Catholic christians are and will be the followers of the Beast and the False Prophet who tells the world that he is God. So I hope you will accept my humble answer to your question as truth and we can move on to your other questions. Peace
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| | Tuesday, January 30, 2001 - 03:48 am Jonny jake if this religion U speak of is for the whole of mankind, it shouldnt really matter if it taught by a "roman" or an "isralli" since it has failed to be displayed to the whole of mankind ACURATELY I can only assume it was not meant (by GOD) for the whole of mankind but only for those who have portrayed it acccurately for period of time it STAYED accurate. Islam however IS meant for the whole of mankind so WE as muslims do not use EXCUSES like it was taught in such a place. Because there is ONE Islam and ONE Qur'an (not 33,000) AND one Allah (not 3) I would also Like to bring to ur attetion that U still STILL fail to answer WISEDOM'S questions! U have me laughing now. He did not ask who who comanded who....but who was in charge of the universe while the trinity (God, Jesus and Gabriel) were all dead! SUBHANALAH!!! They say sometimes children understand things better than Adults, I'm sure even a three year old would have some difficulty in understanding how the world would still exist, still function, still revolve, if the CREATOR, the power behind it, had died!
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| | Tuesday, January 30, 2001 - 04:27 am salaamu calykum brothers and sisters in islam,, I am very happy with the answers made by Sistah-X, wisdom, Issa, Dick, and the others.....keep up with that........you guys are more learned then I and honestly when I read your postings....it makes me very happy.....love you'll...... hi johnny I'm still here, so don't worry right now I really don't have much to say ,,,,well I whant you to look at what you have written and I wonder if you can see the missing part as I did and sistah-X did and all the rest of us I repeat your words and please look carefully "There is a protocol (structure to actions)that takes place with God. The Most High God gives a command to The Lamb of God - Jesus, Jesus gives the command to the angel Gabriel (The Holy Sprit Of Truth) and Gabriel takes the command to mankind. 3 actions = ONE Commandment from the MOST HIGH God. 3 separate entities working together as ONE" and read this article ( sorry u said to me that I shouldn't overfload you with writings of others but I strongly advice you to read this) 1. CONCEPT OF GOD IN ISLAM It is a known fact that every language has one or more terms that are used in reference to God and sometimes to lesser deities. This is not the case with Allah. Allah is the personal name of the One true God. Nothing else can be called Allah. The term has no plural or gender. This shows its uniqueness when compared with the word god which can be made plural, gods, or feminine, goddess. It is interesting to notice that Allah is the personal name of God in Aramaic, the language of Jesus and a sister language of Arabic. The One true God is a reflection of the unique concept that Islam associates with God. To a Muslim, Allah is the Almighty, Creator and Sustainer of the universe, Who is similar to nothing and nothing is comparable to Him. The Prophet Muhammad was asked by his contemporaries about Allah; the answer came directly from God Himself in the form of a short chapter of the Quran, which is considered the essence of the unity or the motto of monotheism. This is chapter 112 which reads: "In the name of God, the Merciful, the Compassionate. Say (O Muhammad) He is God the One God, the Everlasting Refuge, who has not begotten, nor has been begotten, and equal to Him is not anyone." Some non-Muslims allege that God in Islam is a stern and cruel God who demands to be obeyed fully. He is not loving and kind. Nothing can be farther from truth than this allegation. It is enough to know that, with the exception of one, each of the 114 chapters of the Quran begins with the verse: "In the name of God, the Merciful, the Compassionate." In one of the sayings of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) we are told that "God is more loving and kinder than a mother to her dear child." But God is also Just. Hence evildoers and sinners must have their share of punishment and the virtuous, His bounties and favors. Actually God's attribute of Mercy has full manifestation in His attribute of Justice. People suffering throughout their lives for His sake and people oppressing and exploiting other people all their lives should not receive similar treatment from their Lord. Expecting similar treatment for them will amount to negating the very belief in the accountability of man in the Hereafter and thereby negating all the incentives for a moral and virtuous life in this world. The following Quranic verses are very clear and straightforward in this respect: "Verily, for the Righteous are gardens of Delight, in the Presence of their Lord. Shall We then treat the people of Faith like the people of Sin? What is the matter with you? How judge you?" (68:34-36) Islam rejects characterizing God in any human form or depicting Him as favoring certain individuals or nations on the basis of wealth, power or race. He created the human-beings as equals. They may distinguish themselves and get His favor through virtue and piety only. The concept that God rested in the seventh day of creation, that God wrestled with one of His soldiers, that God is an envious plotter against mankind, or that God is incarnate in any human being are considered blasphemy from the Islamic point of view. The unique usage of Allah as a personal name of God is a reflection of Islam's emphasis on the purity of the belief in God which is the essence of the message of all God's messengers. Because of this, Islam considers associating any deity or personality with God as a deadly sin which God will never forgive, despite the fact He may forgive all other sins. The Creator must be of a different nature from the things created because if he is of the same nature as they are, he will be temporal and will therefore need a maker. It follows that nothing is like Him. If the maker is not temporal, then he must be eternal. But if he is eternal, he cannot be caused, and if nothing outside him causes him to continue to exist, which means that he must be self-sufficient. And if the does not depend on anything for the continuance of his own existence, then this existence can have no end. The Creator is therefore eternal and everlasting: 'He is the First and the Last.' He is Self-Sufficient or Self-Subsistent or, to use a Quranic term, Al-Qayyum. The Creator does not create only in the sense of bringing things into being, He also preserves them and takes them out of existence and is the ultimate cause of whatever happens to them. "God is the Creator of everything. He is the guardian over everything. Unto Him belong the keys of the heavens and the earth." (39:62, 63) "No creature is there crawling on the earth, but its provision rests on God. He knows its lodging place and it repository." (11:6) 2.God's Attributes If the Creator is Eternal and Everlasting, then His attributes must also be eternal and everlasting. He should not lose any of His attributes nor acquire new ones. If this is so, then His attributes are absolute. Can there be more than one Creator with such absolute attributes? Can there be for example, two absolutely powerful Creators? A moment's thought shows that this is not feasible. The Quran summarizes this argument in the following verses: "God has not taken to Himself any son, nor is there any god with Him: For then each god would have taken of that which he created and some of them would have risen up over others." (23:91) And Why, were there gods in earth and heaven other than God, they (heaven and earth) would surely go to ruin." (21:22 when you get here....... .....tell me doesn't that sound perfect........?? we don't have trinty we have one Allah........and he is the almighty take care for now........
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| | Tuesday, January 30, 2001 - 04:29 am to johnny you sad bastard you came from somalia as muslim then you got influenced by the whitees so if you had a dick you gay faggot,motherfucker you would be a muslum no matter what dickhead
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| | Tuesday, January 30, 2001 - 05:31 am Honey with Guts You're pretty open-minded you know that? Way to go. When i'm looking for theological discussion I'll know right where to turn in the future. I just have one question. Do you actually know how to think???
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| | Tuesday, January 30, 2001 - 06:02 am Respect to all my muslim brothers and sisters, may ALLAH(swt) bless your souls. Warsame, jonnyjake etc, how can you follow a book which has been tampered with by men?, when the Quran has been untouched for more 1,400 years. Take a good look around you the evidence is there, that is Islam is the true religon. Muslim brothers and sisters, the devil has taken his soul and is trying to take you away from the guidance of ALLAH(swt).
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| | Tuesday, January 30, 2001 - 06:13 am Honey with guts, Abdifatah I just start disliking the Islam when I see ppl like you who saying they are Muslin. I have my doubts and questions on Islam... but I am not sure whether this place is the right one to pose them. Take care all of you and be civilized to eachother
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| | Tuesday, January 30, 2001 - 06:18 am Jamila, sister I admire the way U protray the truth of Islam without anger or insult but with faith and concern. I admire the way U state concisely The verses of the holy qur'an. I too, like KW, would like to thank U for bringing knowlege and reason into this topic. Sometimes there are things U know in the back of ur mind but when somebody reminds U of them U fill with emotion....well I do anyway! It reminds me of how lucky I am to be a muslim and that is a blessing from Allah. Thanks sis, Love U!
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| | Tuesday, January 30, 2001 - 06:33 am Ps Anonymous. I would advise U NOT to make a decision on whether U want to accept Islam based on what the so called muslims in this forum write. Instead I advise U to make ur own judgement based on the religion itself.
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| | Tuesday, January 30, 2001 - 06:51 am salaan dhamaantiinba, Aqyaarta yaan Johhnyjoke la isugu tagin, haddii uu doortay diin ka duwan tiina waa wax caadi ah, ma'ahan in idinku aad saxsantihiin isaguna qaldan yahay, maxaa yeelay awalba balaayadaan diimaha lagu sheegayo iyagoo iswato oo misna isdagaalaya, kalana maseersan ayeey halkaa iyo bariga dhexe meel la yiraahdo naga soo galeen, haddii aad si u fiirisidna saddexda diin waa raadraacii ilbaxnimadii bariga dhexe ka jirtay. Anaku barigii hore inteeysan diimahaas nasoo galin waxaan laheeyn diin inoo gooni ah, carabtii wey xasuuqeen awoowayaasheen iyo diimahoodiiba. Marka waa inaan soo nooleynaa waxeyna ku harsan yihiin meelo Afrikadaa bari ah. Kolka ilma-adeerayaaloow Carab iyo reer-Yurub diimahooda hanaku kala qoqobininee ee anakaa dad isugu dhawee Africaanka aan diimihii awoowayaasheen la caabudno.
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| | Tuesday, January 30, 2001 - 08:12 am JohnnyJake I am not a guy. But let's get back to the subject. I have asked some fair questions which you still didn't give me answer to. "Where in the Bible did Jesus ever explicitly say "I am god" or "Worship me?" You mentioned before that our beloved prophet Mohammed(Pbuh) was not mentioned in your bible. In the Deuteronomy 18:18, Moses stated that Gold told him:"I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers; I will put my words in his mouth, and he will thell them everything I command him. If anyone does not listen to my words that the prophet speaks in my name, I myself will call him to account."  Deuteronomy 18:18-19NIV) From these verses in the bible, I conclude that the prophet to be sent by god is: 1) From among the Israelite's "Brothers," a reference to their Ishmaelite cousins. Ishmael, the other son of Abrahah, is an ancestor othe prophet Muhammed(Pbuh) 2) A prophet like Moses. There were hardly any two prophets who were so much a like as Moses and Muhammed(Pbuh). Both were given a comprehensive law and code of life. Both encountered their enemies and were victorious in miraculous ways. Both were accepted as prophets and statesmen. Both migrated following conspiracies to assasinate them. Anologies between Jesus and Moses overlook not only the above similaririties but other crucial ones as well. These include the natural birth, the family life, and death of Moses and Mohammed(Pbuh) but not of Jesus. Moreover Jesus was regarded by his followers as the Son of God and not exclusively as a prophet of God, as Moses and Muhammed were and as Muslims believe Jesus was. So this prophecy refers to the prophet Muhammed and not to Jesus, because Mohammed is more like Moses than Jesus. Also, one notices from the Gospel of John that the Jews were waiting for the fulfillment of three distinct prophecies. The first was the coming of Christ. The second was the coming of Elijah. The third was the coming of the prophet. This is obvious from the three questions that were posted to John the Baptist: "Now this was John's testimony, whrn the jews of Jerusalem sent priests and levites to ask him who he was. He did not fail to confess, but confessd freely, "I am not Christ." They asked him, "Then who are you? Are you Elijah?" He said, "I am not." "Are you the prophet?" He answered "No." (John 1:19-21 NIV). If you look closely in the Bible, the words "the prophet" occur in John 1:21, and these words refer to the prophecy of Deuteronomy 18:18. So I conclude that this prophecy in Deuteronomy 18:18 does not refer to Jesus Christ but to the prophet Mohammed(Pbuh) Note that god said in the verse after the prophecy in Deuteronomy 18:18, "If anyone does not listen to My words that the propthet speaks in My name, I Myself will call him account." Deouteronomy,18:19 NIV) This means that whoever believes in the Bible must believe in what this prophet says, and this prophet is the prophet Muhammed(Pbuh) One should be able to defend his view. Since I have quoted the bible, Can you in your defence Quote the Quran and where it talks about "Eating camel meet being un lawful(haram)," and Where does it say "It's Lawful to drink any sort of alcohol?"
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| | Tuesday, January 30, 2001 - 08:20 am Please disregard the funny faces that Appear. I am not making them, I don't know why they appear.
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| | Tuesday, January 30, 2001 - 11:48 am jazaakala qeiran Sistah-X..I am your number 1 fan.... Hands up to Young somalie sis Sistah-X Edil wisdom Issa Dick and the rest of y'll wallahi sis you are very smart...you showed him....and what you have said is something I my self learned for a few months ago......I read Ahmed Deedas book.....and there he talked about what the bible says about Mohammed (scw).......and I advice you brothers and sisters to go and buy you Ahmed Deedas books.....I promise you all that your brain activity will increase ( or maybe not)...... Allah subxanawatwallah whant's us to find the truth........and you can find the truth by seeking and thoose who are born as muslims are very lucky.....but there are few who turns away from there faith...and I strongly advice you guys before you do that....make sure you have your facts straight so that you won't be one of the lost lambs .....honestly keep your diin straight..don't ever belive in what people teach you don't accept everything they say to you.......... you must be your own master you must read the quran for your self.......so that when Allah ask you on the judgemandt day you won't answer like this : Well I didn't know better cuse Xassan said it was xalaal....... bad luck for that little fella........ you guys maybe wonder : what's wrong with her? well I'm just in a good mood today that's all johnny I whant you to read this.... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19. Surât Maryam In the Name of Allâh, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful. 1. Kâf HâYâ'AînSâd. [These letters are one of the miracles of the Qur'ân, and none but Allâh (Alone) knows their meanings]. 2. (This is) a mention of the mercy of your Lord to His slave Zakariya (Zachariah). 3. When he called out his Lord (Allâh) a call in secret, 4. Saying: "My Lord! Indeed my bones have grown feeble, and grey hair has spread on my head, And I have never been unblest in my invocation to You, O my Lord! 5. "And Verily! I fear my relatives after me, since my wife is barren. So give me from Yourself an heir, 6. "Who shall inherit me, and inherit (also) the posterity of Ya'qûb (Jacob) (inheritance of the religious knowledge and Prophethood, not the wealth, etc.). And make him, my Lord, one with whom You are Well-pleased!". 7. (Allâh said) "O Zakariya (Zachariah)! Verily, We give you the glad tidings of a son, His name will be Yahya (John). We have given that name to none before (him)." 8. He said: "My Lord! How can I have a son, when my wife is barren, and I have reached the extreme old age." 9. He said: "So (it will be). Your Lord says; It is easy for Me. Certainly I have created you before, when you had been nothing!" 10. [Zakariya (Zachariah)] said: "My Lord! Appoint for me a sign." He said: "Your sign is that you shall not speak unto mankind for three nights, though having no bodily defect." 11. Then he came out to his people from Al-Mihrâb (a praying place or a private room, etc.), he told them by signs to glorify Allâh's Praises in the morning and in the afternoon. 12. (It was said to his son): "O Yahya (John)! Hold fast the Scripture [the Taurât (Torah)]." And We gave him wisdom while yet a child. 13. And (made him) sympathetic to men as a mercy (or a grant) from Us, and pure from sins [i.e. Yahya (John)] and he was righteous, 14. And dutiful towards his parents, and he was neither an arrogant nor disobedient (to Allâh or to his parents). 15. And Salâmun (peace) be on him the day he was born, the day he dies, and the day he will be raised up to life (again)! 16. And mention in the Book (the Qur'ân, O Muhammad SAW , the story of) Maryam (Mary), when she withdrew in seclusion from her family to a place facing east. 17. She placed a screen (to screen herself) from them; then We sent to her Our Ruh [angel Jibrael (Gabriel)], and he appeared before her in the form of a man in all respects. 18. She said: "Verily! I seek refuge with the Most Beneficent (Allâh) from you, if you do fear Allâh." 19. (The angel) said: "I am only a Messenger from your Lord, (to announce) to you the gift of a righteous son." 20. She said: "How can I have a son, when no man has touched me, nor am I unchaste?" 21. He said: "So (it will be), your Lord said: 'That is easy for Me (Allâh): And (We wish) to appoint him as a sign to mankind and a mercy from Us (Allâh), and it is a matter (already) decreed, (by Allâh).' " 22. So she conceived him[], and she withdrew with him to a far place (i.e. Bethlehem valley about 4-6 miles from Jerusalem). 23. And the pains of childbirth drove her to the trunk of a date-palm. She said: "Would that I had died before this, and had been forgotten and out of sight!" 24. Then [the babe 'Iesa (Jesus) or Jibrael (Gabriel)] cried unto her from below her, saying: "Grieve not! Your Lord has provided a water stream under you; 25. "And shake the trunk of date-palm towards you, it will let fall fresh ripe-dates upon you." 26. "So eat and drink and be glad, and if you see any human being, say: 'Verily! I have vowed a fast unto the Most Beneficent (Allâh) so I shall not speak to any human being this day.'" 27. Then she brought him (the baby) to her people, carrying him. They said: "O Mary! Indeed you have brought a thing Fariya (an unheard mighty thing). 28. "O sister (i.e. the like) of Hârûn (Aaron) [not the brother of Mûsa (Moses), but he was another pious man at the time of Maryam (Mary)]! Your father was not a man who used to commit adultery, nor your mother was an unchaste woman." 29. Then she pointed to him. They said: "How can we talk to one who is a child in the cradle?[]" 30. "He ['Iesa (Jesus)] said: Verily! I am a slave of Allâh, He has given me the Scripture and made me a Prophet;[]" 31. "And He has made me blessed wheresoever I be, and has enjoined on me Salât (prayer), and Zakât, as long as I live." 32. "And dutiful to my mother, and made me not arrogant, unblest. 33. "And Salâm (peace) be upon me the day I was born, and the day I die, and the day I shall be raised alive!" 34. Such is 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary). (it is) a statement of truth, about which they doubt (or dispute). 35. It befits not (the Majesty of) Allâh that He should beget a son [this refers to the slander of Christians against Allâh, by saying that 'Iesa (Jesus) is the son of Allâh]. Glorified (and Exalted be He above all that they associate with Him). When He decrees a thing, He only says to it, "Be!" and it is[]. 36. ['Iesa (Jesus) said]: "And verily Allâh is my Lord and your Lord. So worship Him (Alone). That is the Straight Path. (Allâh's Religion of Islâmic Monotheism which He did ordain for all of His Prophets)." [Tafsir At-Tabarî] 37. Then the sects differed [i.e. the Christians about 'Iesa (Jesus) <><>], so woe unto the disbelievers [those who gave false witness by saying that 'Iesa (Jesus) is the son of Allâh] from the meeting of a great Day (i.e. the Day of Resurrection, when they will be thrown in the blazing Fire)[]. 38. How clearly will they (polytheists and disbelievers in the Oneness of Allâh) see and hear, the Day when they will appear before Us! But the Zalimûn (polytheists and wrong-doers) today are in plain error. 39. And warn them (O Muhammad SAW) of the Day of grief and regrets, when the case has been decided, while (now) they are in a state of carelessness, and they believe not[]. 40. Verily! We will inherit the earth and whatsoever is thereon. And to Us they all shall be returned, 41. And mention in the Book (the Qur'ân) Ibrâhim (Abraham). Verily! He was a man of truth, a Prophet. 42. When he said to his father: "O my father! Why do you worship that which hears not, sees not and cannot avail you in anything? 43. "O my father! Verily! There has come to me of knowledge that which came not unto you. So follow me. I will guide you to a Straight Path. 44. "O my father! Worship not Shaitân (Satan). Verily! Shaitân (Satan) has been a rebel against the Most Beneficent (Allâh). 45. "O my father! Verily! I fear lest a torment from the Most Beneficent (Allâh) overtake you, so that you become a companion of Shaitân (Satan) (in the Hell-fire)." [Tafsir Al-Qurtubî] 46. He (the father) said: "Do you reject my gods, O Ibrâhim (Abraham)? If you stop not (this), I will indeed stone you. So get away from me safely before I punish you." 47. Ibrâhim (Abraham) said: "Peace be on you! I will ask Forgiveness of my Lord for you. Verily! He is unto me, Ever Most Gracious. 48. "And I shall turn away from you and from those whom you invoke besides Allâh. And I shall call on my Lord; and I hope that I shall not be unblest in my invocation to my Lord." 49. So when he had turned away from them and from those whom they worshipped besides Allâh, We gave him Ishâque (Isaac) and Ya'qûb (Jacob), and each one of them We made a Prophet. 50. And We gave them of Our Mercy (a good provision in plenty), and We granted them honour on the tongues (of all the nations, i.e everybody remembers them with a good praise).[] 51. And mention in the Book (this Qur'ân) Mûsa (Moses). Verily! He was chosen and he was a Messenger (and) a Prophet. 52. And We called him from the right side of the Mount, and made him draw near to Us for a talk with him [Mûsa (Moses)]. 53. And We bestowed on him his brother Hârûn (Aaron), (also) a Prophet, out of Our Mercy. 54. And mention in the Book (the Qur'ân) Ismâ'il (Ishmael). Verily! He was true to what he promised, and he was a Messenger, (and) a Prophet. 55. And he used to enjoin on his family and his people As-Salât (the prayers) and the Zakât, and his Lord was pleased with him. 56. And mention in the Book (the Qur'ân) Idris (Enoch).Verily! He was a man of truth, (and) a Prophet. 57. And We raised him to a high station. 58. Those were they unto whom Allâh bestowed His Grace from among the Prophets, of the offspring of Adam, and of those whom We carried (in the ship) with Nûh (Noah), and of the offspring of Ibrâhim (Abraham) and Israel and from among those whom We guided and chose. When the Verses of the Most Beneficent (Allâh) were recited unto them, they fell down prostrating and weeping.[] 59. Then, there has succeeded them a posterity who have given up As-Salât (the prayers) [i.e. made their Salât (prayers) to be lost, either by not offering them or by not offering them perfectly or by not offering them in their proper fixed times, etc.] and have followed lusts.[] So they will be thrown in Hell. 60. Except those who repent and believe (in the Oneness of Allâh and His Messenger Muhammad SAW), and work righteousness[]. Such will enter Paradise and they will not be wronged in aught. 61. (They will enter) 'Adn (Eden) Paradise (everlasting Gardens), which the Most Beneficent (Allâh) has promised to His slaves in the unseen: Verily! His Promise must come to pass. 62. They shall not hear therein (in Paradise) any Laghw (dirty, false, evil vain talk), but only Salâm (salutations of peace). And they will have therein their sustenance, morning and afternoon. [See (V.40:55)]. 63. Such is the Paradise which We shall give as an inheritance to those of Our slaves who have been Al-Muttaqûn (pious and righteous persons - See V.2:2). 64. And we (angels) descend not except by the Command of your Lord (O Muhammad SAW). To Him belongs what is before us and what is behind us, and what is between those two, and your Lord is never forgetful, 65. Lord of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between them, so worship Him (Alone) and be constant and patient in His worship. Do you know of any who is similar to Him? (of course none is similar or coequal or comparable to Him, and He has none as partner with Him). [There is nothing like unto Him and He is the All-Hearer, the All-Seer][]. 66. And man (the disbeliever) says: "When I am dead, shall I then be raised up alive?" 67. Does not man remember that We created him before, while he was nothing? 68. So by your Lord, surely, We shall gather them together, and (also) the Shayâtin (devils) (with them), then We shall bring them round Hell on their knees. 69. Then indeed We shall drag out from every sect all those who were worst in obstinate rebellion against the Most Beneficent (Allâh). 70. Then, verily, We know best those who are most worthy of being burnt therein. 71. There is not one of you but will pass over it (Hell); this is with your Lord; a Decree which must be accomplished[]. 72. Then We shall save those who use to fear Allâh and were dutiful to Him. And We shall leave the Zâlimûn (polytheists and wrongdoers, etc.) therein (humbled) to their knees (in Hell). 73. And when Our Clear Verses are recited to them, those who disbelieve (the rich and strong among the pagans of Quraish who live a life of luxury) say to those who believe (the weak, poor companions of Prophet Muhammad SAW who have a hard life): "Which of the two groups (i.e. believers and disbelievers) is best in (point of) position and as regards station (place of council for consultation)." 74. And how many a generation (past nations) have We destroyed before them, who were better in wealth, goods and outward appearance? 75. Say (O Muhammad SAW) whoever is in error, the Most Beneficent (Allâh) will extend (the rope) to him, until, when they see that which they were promised, either the torment or the Hour, they will come to know who is worst in position, and who is weaker in forces. [This is the answer for the Verse No.19:73] 76. And Allâh increases in guidance those who walk aright [true believers in the Oneness of Allâh who fear Allâh much (abstain from all kinds of sins and evil deeds which He has forbidden), and love Allâh much (perform all kinds of good deeds which He has ordained)]. And the righteous good deeds that last, are better with your Lord, for reward and better for resort. 77. Have you seen him who disbelieved in Our Ayât (this Qur'ân and Muhammad SAW) and (yet) says: "I shall certainly be given wealth and children [if I will be alive (again)]," 78. Has he known the unseen or has he taken a covenant from the Most Beneficent (Allâh)? 79. Nay! We shall record what he says, and We shall increase his torment (in the Hell); 80. And We shall inherit from him (at his death) all that he talks of (i.e. wealth and children which We have bestowed upon him in this world), and he shall come to Us alone. 81. And they have taken (for worship) âliha (gods) besides Allâh, that they might give them honour, power and glory (and also protect them from Allâh's Punishment etc.). 82. Nay, but they (the so-called gods) will deny their worship of them, and become opponents to them (on the Day of Resurrection). 83. See you not that We have sent the Shayâtin (devils) against the disbelievers to push them to do evil. 84. So make no haste against them; We only count out to them a (limited) number (of the days of the life of this world and delay their term so that they may increase in evil and sins). 85. The Day We shall gather the Muttaqûn (pious - see V.2:2) unto the Most Beneficent (Allâh), like a delegate (presented before a king for honour). 86. And We shall drive the Mujrimûn (polytheists, sinners, criminals, disbelievers in the Oneness of Allâh, etc.) to Hell, in a thirsty state (like a thirsty herd driven down to water), 87. None shall have the power of intercession, but such a one as has received permission (or promise) from the Most Beneficent (Allâh). 88. And they say: "The Most Beneficent (Allâh) has begotten a son (or offspring or children) [as the Jews say: 'Uzair (Ezra) is the son of Allâh, and the Christians say that He has begotten a son ['Iesa (Christ) <><>], and the pagan Arabs say that He has begotten daughters (angels, etc.)]." 89. Indeed you have brought forth (said) a terrible evil thing. 90. Whereby the heavens are almost torn, and the earth is split asunder, and the mountains fall in ruins, 91. That they ascribe a son (or offspring or children) to the Most Beneficent (Allâh). 92. But it is not suitable for (the Majesty of) the Most Beneficent (Allâh) that He should beget a son (or offspring or children). 93. There is none in the heavens and the earth but comes unto the Most Beneficent (Allâh) as a slave. 94. Verily, He knows each one of them, and has counted them a full counting. 95. And everyone of them will come to Him alone on the Day of Resurrection (without any helper, or protector or defender). 96. Verily, those who believe [in the Oneness of Allâh and in His Messenger (Muhammad SAW)] and work deeds of righteousness, the Most Beneficent (Allâh) will bestow love for them[] (in the hearts of the believers). 97. So We have made this (the Qur'ân) easy in your own tongue (O Muhammad SAW), only that you may give glad tidings to the Muttaqûn (pious and righteous persons - See V.2:2), and warn with it the Ludda[] (most quarrelsome) people. 98. And how many a generation before them have We destroyed! Can you (O Muhammad SAW) find a single one of them or hear even a whisper of them?
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| | Tuesday, January 30, 2001 - 01:22 pm To all of you spec. for Jamiila and Johhnyjake I am the one who started this discussion and the purpose of this discussion is not to teach or try to persuade your faith to others. I wanted to know if there are non-muslim Somali and may be have a brief comments on reasons which we choose to believe something different from traditional and dominant somali religion which is Islam. So please be brief and thoughtful. Thanks all of you for taking part this discussion Warsame
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| | Tuesday, January 30, 2001 - 03:47 pm Peace and Blessings in the name of Jesus! Whew! All of these posts I got to reply to. First of all I would like to thank you all for your participation in this discussion and to our founder the MOST famous Warsame - peace brother. Sorry that things got out of hand from time to time with the high emotions. I would like to say peace and blessings to my dear sweet Jamilla. You are an understanding woman and can read a persons character well. Welcome back sis I thought we had lost you. Also I want to praise all the sisters in this forum, especially sisters Edil (sorry for calling you a guy) and Sister X for your quality input. Again these discussions are for learning from one another and I am not too proud to say that I have learned something from a muslim. NOW LET's Begin! I will try my best to answer as many questions as I can but if it seems like I didnt answer all your questions that means that I dont have the answer and will not lie. My begining question is to all those who call themselves muslim. I have read your postings stating that prophets from Adam, Moses, Jesus to Mohammed were all muslims - right? So the word muslim is a title of high esteem - right? MY Question: How do so-called muslim people put themselves in the same catogory as the prophets (you call muslims) by saying that they too are muslim? God has communicated with all of these prophets that you call muslims - that gives them a destinction over other human beings. Has most muslims communicated with God as these prophets or have done the things as these prophets have done? It just seems pretty pompous to put yourself in high esteem by giving yourselves the same title as the prophets! I hope you understand my question? ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ OK! Sister X your question about it doesnt matter who teaches God's Word because it hasnt been taught to all mankind anyway. Thats a good question! God has given that responsibility to the Israelites no one else and after the DAY OF BATTLE when the Lamb of God takes control of this world - the Israelites when take up their original job to teach all the sons of Adam. They havent lost their jobs but are on some type of break until Jesus comes back to fight in the LAST DAY. Sister X your other concern about who was in charge during the death of the trinity. First of all I am not aware of the death of a trinity - Jesus died and was buried in the grave for 3 days and 3 nights. HIS death didnt affect the angel Gabriel nor the MOST HIGH GOD. I hope this answer is satisfactory for you? Jamilla, YOur long articles talks about Allah as a personal name for the god of the muslims. My question and reply to your article is: ...if Allah is his personal name - who named HIM Allah? I didnt know that someone could name a god? Even the Lamb of God doesnt have a name before HIS name was called Jesus. HE went by 'I AM' or the functional/principle of 'YHVH' (Jehovah).Thats why Jesus called the MOST HIGH GOD the FATHER and HE being the adopted Firstborn SON OF GOD after HIS recesrection(rebirth from the grave). The MOST HIGH GOD gave Jesus a Name Holier than any name. But no one gives the MOST HIGH GOD a name. Father is a title not a name. Also Jamilla your article talks about Allah has no image or body like a man. I dont know maybe it's true about your god. But for our God we are created in the likeness of HIM. That means that humans look like HIM. Jesus even said Himself - if you have seen me you have seen the FATHER. Sister Edil, You have 3 questions but I will answer only 2 of them here in this posting. Your second question is more profound and needs its own treatment. Your 1st question: Where in the bible does Jesus say I am God worship me? No where in the bible does Jesus say I am God worship me! However, after the death and rebirth of Jesus into the God family, HE picked up HIS old job as Melchizedek, Priest OF THE MOST HIGH GOD. Now because of Jesus being the sin offering and dying for the sins of mankind - all prayers have to go through HIM as our mediator to the MOST HIGH GOD. All and everyone will have to pray to God through Jesus the Anointed KING/PRIEST of Israel. Edil Your Second Question: "One should be able to defend his view. Since I have quoted the bible, Can you in your defence Quote the Quran and where it talks about "Eating camel meet being un lawful(haram)," and Where does it say "It's Lawful to drink any sort of alcohol?" MY ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION: Edil I never said that eating camel meat is unlawful in the Quran nor did I say that drinking is Lawful in the Quran. I said that the Quran goes against what God HIMSELF has commanded to mankind. Here is what I said: 1). Dietary Laws for all mankind The Quran says it is halal to eat camel but it goes against God's Word: From the Torah *Leviticus 10:10 - And that ye may put difference between holy and unholy, and between unclean and clean; *Leviticus 11:4 - Nevertheless these shall ye not eat of them that chew the cud, or of them that divide the hoof: as the camel, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you. Islam says it is clean to eat camel and many muslims eat camel to this day. This is a direct violation to what God has commanded! There is a difference to eat unclean food out of ignorance but when there is a religious writing that goes against what God has said that is blasphemy! 2)The use of alcohol and drinks The Quran says it is a sin to drink alcohol but this goes against what God has written to mankind. This is concerning the feast days of God: Deuteronomy 14:26 - And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household, So you see Edil there are some contradictions between Quran and what God Himself has said. Anytime you have documentation of laws it is like a legal notice and God will judge the truth of your Quran. ***So the question is - Do you beleive God or Do you beleive the Quran???????????? My dear brother Warsame, I am sorry for posting long replies. YOu are right and I respect your wishes. Also if everyone would not cut and paste from other sources on this forum. It is best to put it in your own words. Anyone can cut and paste but it takes more effort to explain in your own words.
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| | Tuesday, January 30, 2001 - 04:38 pm johnnyjake, For me the biggest and most obvious blunder of Christian doctrine is the the belief that God Almighty is a man. Christians believe that humans were created in the image of God. It is pretty pompous and narcissitic of humans to project human qualities to God. We are but ONE of the millions of species on this earth. The bodies that we have are created purposely for life on this earth, tell me what use does God have for a heart, a liver, a nose. I truly believe that God is beyond our imagination in terms of form and shape.
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| | Tuesday, January 30, 2001 - 05:54 pm JP, Thanks for your input but if you read the creation story in the Torah it explains much better that I can but I will try. After God created the heavens and the earth HE created the fish of the seas, birds animals and lastly mankind GOD gave mankind domainion over all creations because HE was making Heaven on earth. Since the host of them that were created on earth, after its kind in heaven God has dominion over all in heaven - ...in the likeness of God created HE him, man and woman created HE them!... BUT GOD NEVER CREATED MAN AFTER HIS KIND (God) Man was formed in the likeness of God only. I hope you accept my answer as truth. peace
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| | Tuesday, January 30, 2001 - 06:00 pm I like to make notice of Mr. Warsame great effort in creating this open forum for Non-Muslim Somalis. As of January 30, 2001 this forum is the most popular in the Discussion area. Thanks to Mr Warsame for his guidance and hard work in making all this possible.
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| | Tuesday, January 30, 2001 - 08:36 pm johnnyjake: u don't make sense most of the time...u didn't even answer my question about trinity...the question was who was in charge of the universe when jesus was dead for those three days since all three were supposed to have been dead...instead of answering the question you started talking about lamb of god...i didn't ask you about any lamb...what the hell does lamb have to do with this... and in some other place you said: "I said that the Quran goes against what God HIMSELF has commanded to mankind." loooooooooooool looooooooooooooool the quran is Allah's word...don't think it is like the bible and it is written by men...how could Allah's word go against what He has commanded...watch what you r saying...don't embarase yourself...u already did that by quoting from the bible...even christians don't do that...they know the bible is fraud...why quote someone else's work when u can write your own version... johnnyjake i know u have alot of doubts about christianity...there is no religious christian who doesn't have doubts...christianity is full doubts...u know that and i know that...so why don't u stop blind following and start looking for the truth...to make your journey short start by reading the quran...it is your choice man...whatever decision you make will either be good for u or lead you to an everlasting severe punishment...
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| | Tuesday, January 30, 2001 - 10:27 pm Hi everybody, Ok johnny I will stop with the long postings, and I'll write with my own words.......now let's begin.......if you are right johnny I'll listen......but johnny you are so wrong...and I can see that your postings has changed a little bit from what they were in the begnning......now you don't seem so sure anymore........honestly that only shows me that you from the start was weak in your faith and now it has weakend even more..........you see a muslim is sure about her/his faith......they don't need to do what so many christians do...go out in mission.......the only thing they need to do is.......let the heding read the quran and most of the time that'll do............... ok now to the questions and thier answers johnny if you were on trial...honestly the judge or the jury would have dessmissed you cuse you can't even answer a question......either you answer it or you don't......it's no harder than that......... for exmpel the question about the trinity......you didn't answer it.....and you said I'm not to proud to say to a muslim I have learned something......then go ahead say it....I HAVE LEARNED SOMETHING..........aparently you have learned a lot..........so johnny answer the question about the trinity........ you asked me:if Allah is his personal name - who named HIM Allah? the answer is simple.....OUR GOD YOUR GOD DOESN'T NEED A NAMER...HE HIM SELF NAMED HIM.....NO HUMAN CAN DO THAT...HE NAMED JOHN THE BAPTIST SO WHY ON EARTH WOULDN'T HE NAME HIM SELF......????? "I didnt know that someone could name a god?" somenone can't name a god......................... Now to your question " So the word muslim is a title of high esteem - right?" No the word muslim is not a title for high esteem...the word muslim is a title for submission..... "How do so-called muslim people put themselves in the same catogory as the prophets (you call muslims) by saying that they too are muslim?" it's easy they are muslims when they have adapted Islam as their belive....the prophets were send to us.......so that we could adapt Allahs religion close to our hearts......the prophet them selves are human beings they are made of flesh and blood......they are for us the messengers of god whom we prase as well........we are not puting us in the same catogary as them......they were great men......but not greater then Allah and they weren't equal to Allah....Like Jesus is for you....... every man/woman who submitted to gods will..represent the eccense of worship only to one God Allah.................. MUSLIM(S) (also spelled Moslem) is based on the same Arabic root as Islam (s-l-m) and means one who submits to God, that is, a believer in Islam. Any person who believes in the creed and the teachings of Islam is called a Muslim. The word Muslim in some places in the Qur'an is also used to refer to all the ones who believed in Allah and his messages and submitted to Him, even before Muhammad (s.a.w). Many prophets, like Nuh (NOah), Ibrahim (Abraham), Musa (Moses), and Isa (Jesus), are called Muslims in the Qur'an. 3. the question:Where in the bible does Jesus say I am God worship me? you answered it perfeclty in the first sentenece...but why did you continue it with a foolish sentence I really can't understand that.....facts is facts you: No where.....let's keep it that way.......
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| | Tuesday, January 30, 2001 - 10:29 pm to warsame, if you don't like what you started in the first place...then I'm not the one to blame or the others..you started it and we won't stop discusson no matter what you say..... if you don't like what you are reading then...leave the place and don't come back.......
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| | Tuesday, January 30, 2001 - 11:12 pm Arguments from ignorance lead to no solution. And as it appears, the two sides seem to be resorting to their respective holy books for evidentiary support. Though it is quite frankly sad to see one deviate from the societal norms, we have to know one thing for certain that god has given each one of you the will to choose which way to follow. However, having ben coming back to this forum to observe the way the arguments were developing, i noticed that both sides are arguing from ignorance and as a consequence, you all seem to be treading to that awful road of "my way,,i am always right..".. Johny jake has his beliefs and though his beliefs are quite different from what you were brought up with, you all seem to be biassed against him. The sentiments show that at the begining of the argument, most participants expressed their dislike of individuals like Johnyjake. This is too bad as it doesnt address the issue. Instead of convincing Mr Johnyjake with plausible arguments, you all turned to the commonality issue of christianity. I am not surprised at this attitude. We are all brought up to believe that christians are evil people. Nevertheless to argue with someone doesnt mean to just oppose him for the sake of opposition. You have to by all means try to convince your opponent that his views arent right and that yours are right. But that doesnt just happen automatically through the expressions of hatred and stubidity and expressions of nonsenses, rather it takes and needs strategies that go beyond what appears here. You should enlighten the person you are arguing and persuade him by presenting your arguments in the best way. Yet the worst part of all is that Islam doesnt address the issue the way you guys have approached. Besides, doesnt Islam say that everyone paves the way for his destiny?. Islam isnt a constricting religion. Everyone who feels that Islam isnt for him and who as aresult of that conviction quits, then no one can force him to return to it..Let his beliefs tke him where he desires. That is between him and his lord. But approach him and talk to him in a manner that doesnt depict islam as a militant religion. You all seem to be militants equiped to the end who are ready to bounce on anyone who quits.. Johnyjake, your beliefs are yours, kep the theological thoughts continue,,.. As to Jamila, you seem to be the only sensible enlightened young girl in this forum who knows how to address these issues, i gave you credit and this time it is due,,keep up da good work..
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| | Tuesday, January 30, 2001 - 11:37 pm JohnnyJake, <Thanks for your input> You are welcome. <You bring so much positive energy into this disuccusion> Okay :-) <There was another sister Jamilla who I learned alot from - but she is lost or intimidated to stay away> No, she is still here trying to show you from her own perspective what is right, where is truth found. No one has the power over no one in this place...ie the Net. We are all here free to comment, free to enter this page if we were muslims or non-muslims :-) <Anyway sister I have to go with my Belief System> Your belief system, hmmmmmmmmmm... i wonder what is your belief system!Is your belief system that one which claims that God is three in one? Does your belief system rationalize that God would say something and then irrationally contradict Himself? <I am seeking truth and understanding everyday,God has led me to Truth and has opened my heart to understanding> That is Funny. I thought you said that God contradicts Himself!!! I thought you said that God said will destroy that language of quran! The God i believe in said that He will protect Quran from all evils. So, JohnnyJake are we talking about the same God or different Gods. For sure I know that the God I believe in ...will Never contradict himself. He is One and will always be One. Not like what you claim. <As the sayings go...sometimes you have to go outside of the camp to find God> Okay, but definitely you won't find God if you constantly claim that He is *three* and that He is a *liar* who contradicts Himself! <Regarding Hagar and Ismael growing up with those people in Arabia, that is my point> What is your point??? <Those people were Hamities> Ooooh, is this your point :-),okay. But i thought Hamitic is a linguistic term not an ethnic designations. JohhnyJake, Hamitic doesn't refer to a racial or ethnic group rather to a language group. <Arabic and Israelite Hebrew is made up of Hamitic languages> Oooh JohnnyJake...brother...the thing you can't see is that you taking other *misled* peoples' claims and *lies* and you *mistakenly* think that these are the *truth* that you were seeking. And accordingly make these *lies* the foundation of your *belief system* JohhnyJake, Allah...God is One. Quran is the created word of Allah...Mohammed (phuh) is the last prophet. Anything other than that is *fake* Like the above sentence that i have quoted from you which is *fake* Arabic and Israelite Hebrew does not go under the category of the *Hamitic Languages*. <I appreciate your input sister :-)> Okay :-) <peace> peace to you too :-)
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| | Wednesday, January 31, 2001 - 06:37 am Well jamila, I couldnt have said it better myself. Jonnyjake if U want ask questions at least make them a lil hard so we need to think a bit! I mean honestly! "who named God?" lol.
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| | Wednesday, January 31, 2001 - 07:09 am johnnyjake: if any one submits himself/herself to God's will than that someone is called a muslim. don't look at the religious term of it...muslim is submitting to Allah's will... since the following ppl all submitted to Allah's will then we can say adam was a muslim noah was a muslim abraham was a muslim moses was a muslim jesus was a muslim mohamed (saw) was a muslim the ppl who follow these and the other prophets are muslims since they too submitted to Allah's will. the angels are muslims. the trees are muslims. the mountains are muslims. the earth is muslim. the sky is muslim. Allah commands the angels, mountains, earth, sky, wind etc and they r all in submission to Allah therefore they r muslims... jamiila is a muslim. sistahx is a muslim. i am muslim. i know what your next argument is going to be... u gonna say "what about the muslims that drink and kill are they like the prophets" the answer is this: Islam is the religion and muslims are the ppl...i could be a muslim and not be following everything that islam teaches...so that makes a bad muslim...but i am still a muslim... and the fact that you r a muslim doesn't mean that in the judgement you'll be judged the way the prphets will be judged...everyone is going to be judged according to his/her deeds...unlike Christianity were ppl believe that they r forgiven no matter what because jesus died for their sins... johnny jake which sounds more reasonable to u: if i say that u'll be forgiven no matter what because some one died for your sins... or if i say u r responsible for everything you do and everyone else will be judged according to his deeds... you be the judge...
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| | Wednesday, January 31, 2001 - 07:27 am Wisedom...Word! So jonny do U understand now how simple Islam is? Reading ur postings takes me a long time for real! Not because U write so much but because it is so hard to follow! One minute I'm tryna understand how the "trinity" thing works, the next minute U talking Lamb! I'm like huh? U need to just put it simply, like we do. U see Jonny, Islam is a very logical Religion. And thats why I follow it, because I beleive in logic. And logic is what convinces ppl that something is correct. U cant just make up a whole load of stuff and confuse every1! That is where the science comes in, as Dick mentioned before. Wisedom, Christianity can only appeal to those looking for an easy way out. Those who dont have the courage to seek the truth, no matter how hard it is to find and no matter how much they struggle. But instead they say "hell we cant be bothered, lifes a bitch so let jesus pay for everything" wish it was that easy Jonny.
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| | Wednesday, January 31, 2001 - 10:29 am Professor Please don't use that name. What you stated was far from what a professor would say. You called both sides "ignorant," do you know what ignorant means? Ignorance would be to hold a view that you have no knowledge of, surely that's not what is happening in here. If you have seen the facts and quotes, you wouldn't have said that, so now who is the ignorant? Johnnyjake Your answers have only confirmed my beliefs. I knew that Jesus(Pbuh) never said "I am God" or "worship me" in the Bible. Infact, you agreed with me. You didn't give me any facts or quotes, you only gave me myths& beliefs. You can't possibly expect me to believe in that alone. Second, you assumed that the Quran was not God's words but the Bible was. So my question then becomes, What makes the Bible God's words when it is "Corrupted." The Bible has gone through a number of changes and edition, which is openly admitted and declared by the textual scholars of the Bible; because of this and a number of other reasons, their ascription to these prophets is doubtful: 1) The books that comprise the Bible are not the ones given by the respective prophets to whom they are ascribed, 2) These books do not meet the criteria of unbroken and debendable chains transmission 3) A number of intentional and intentional changes has occured in the text of these books, which renders to them to the more "corrupted," the first two criteria were adequate, in rejecting thse books as "basis" of one's religion beliefs. For instance, we believe that the Torah(Torat)was revealed to Moses, and Gospel(Injil) was revealed to Jesus. But it is pretty obvious that these books, as they appear in the Bible today , that neither of books, are written by these writers, or even dictated by them. Torah, as well as Gospel are more of historian's accounts of the lives and teachings of Moses &Jesus respectively, than the books revealed to them. Thus, I don't thinks anyone who is aware of the history of the conpilation of the Bible really has any problems in accepting the statement that various books of the Bible as we have today are more likey to be a lot different from what was revealed to and taught by the prophets to which they are ascribed. If we look at the Torah, we know that it was revealed to Moses(Pbuh) at about 13-th century BC. But the books today that constitude Torah, do no date that farther back, furthermore, we believe that the Torah was not written or even dictated by Moses(pbuh) himself for reasons such as the following: Bible J, was written around 850 BC, Bible E, was written around 750 BC. The two were combined around 650 BC, as the result decument was called JED. In around 400 BC, priestly & ritual laws were written and were added to JED- now growing to JEDP. The JEDP as it became in 400 BC, in Pentateuch(the Torah)as we know it. Thus, a book considered to be written by Moses around the 13-th century is actually written in the fourth and fifth century. The Intentional changes in the Bible: 1) Changes involving spelling and grammar 2) Harmonistic Corruption 3) Addition of Natural complements& similar Adjucts(words added by the narrator) 4) Clearing up Historaical& Geaographical Difficulties(ascribes who were aware of the particular historical being made but believe it to be incorrect, tended to correct) 5) Conflation of Reading 6) Alteration made because of Doctiranal consideration 7) Addition of Misceleneous details. How can You then say that the Bibles as we have them today, are "God's Words,?" I will prove to you why we believe the Quran as being "God's words" in my next piece of writing. Please NOTE: The Arabic word "ALLAH," means "GOD" The word "ALLAH" is a name for "GOD," which is widely used by the Arabic speakers, Both Arab Muslims and Arab Christians. In Aramaic, a language that Jesus hopitually spoke, God is also referred to as "Allah"
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| | Wednesday, January 31, 2001 - 03:26 pm Idil You have missed the point i tried to highlight, and have chosen the a way of seeing it as quite bervarious. Nevertheless, Johnyjake argued and highlighted his argument. But in your case, you are trying to convince Johnyjake using that which he has doubts--your religion. To merely argue using that style is to miss the point and that depicts a little mentality so confined within itself. If i tell you that i dont believe in islam would you resort to convincing me using that religion i doubt as your reasons of my being wrong? Sister, you are really so twisted if you think along tht line. Use your rationality and convince Johnyjake with argument that are so reasonable and stop your blattant criticism which show your ignorance ,,, Ignorance isnt the way you defined it...It depends on how you adopt it and how you understand it,,..You can be ignorant yet be conscious person to know when danger is on your way.. Dont like to delve into sociological argument with you, but frankly you need to broaden your argument, in order to include that spice of human rationality which appears to be missing from the islamic sector,,
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| | Wednesday, January 31, 2001 - 04:40 pm Please and blessings to you all in the name of Jesus! Again I want to thank you all for your participation in this discussion and also welcome any new participants. And to my old discussion mates I like to compliment you all on the quality of information that your are providing. This discussion is becoming even more scholarly each day - we even have a professor participant :-) I apologize if I didnt answer the question regarding the trinity in the way many thought appropriate but to defend a position that I never mentioned is unfair to begin with. First of all there is no trinity as many of you might have heard other Christians speak of it. Second the death of the trinity is a new concept and smacks of pure stupidity. I think it would be unfair for me to ask you to defend a subject that I heard a muslim talking about - for instance, Elijah Mohammed is said to be the last muslim prophet how does that relate to what the Quran says. You see it is unfair for me to bring up something like that off-the-wall and out-of-the-blue and then ask you to defend it. Basically that is what you all are doing to me when you bring up these ridiculous questions and then want me to respond to it. Then you are not satisfied with my answers to your question. Thats not right! If you first ask me of my views of a subject or scripture then I can respond to it but to do other wise is not fair at all. I want this forum to be an enjoyable place to communicate and learn without intimidation, threats and name-calling. If we all would learn to have some consideration with one another (especially with me) I think it will all go smoothly. Like the professor said, ...you all make islam seem so militant... and you all act like religious militants... So I would like to establish with you all some sort of RULES of Conduct and Behaviors for this forum. But we all must agree to these Rules of Conduct and Behavior. In fact we can make our own policies. As you know it is very hard for me to address each and everyone's questions and other concerns; especially when someone has many subject areas. But do you all think we should stay on one topic at a time or do you prefer the Free-flow ask any thing and wait for an answer format? I think it is time to have more organized discussions then we will benefit more. What are your views on this?
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| | Wednesday, January 31, 2001 - 06:12 pm LOL...JohnnyJake, You are one funny character. You can't answer the questions in hand. You can't answer the questions that you have raised by your own *contradictions* instead you go telling us that we have to *behave* and that we have to *establish* rules and conducts. Come on, if you can't handle fire then don't play with it.
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| | Wednesday, January 31, 2001 - 06:15 pm Dear Bros/Sisters I would be a fool to think of that there is God. Religion was invented to create order in this world. Over the last 200-300 yrs mankind has achieved another way of creating orderly world called politics. Now religion is hiding behind a big screen called "aakhiro" after-life, and I have no interest of what happens that time. If you are a good human-being then fellows you don't need God, only those who can't even do a normal days work make a living out of religion. Fear-mongering to them became an Art-form.
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| | Wednesday, January 31, 2001 - 06:27 pm All, So what have we concluded in here? I thought we would reach some kind of conclusion..interesting though! lol
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| | Wednesday, January 31, 2001 - 08:59 pm johnnyjake: u said: "I think it would be unfair for me to ask you to defend a subject that I heard a muslim talking about - for instance, Elijah Mohammed is said to be the last muslim prophet how does that relate to what the Quran says. You see it is unfair for me to bring up something like that off-the-wall and out-of-the-blue and then ask you to defend it." that is easy defend: Elijah Mohamed is a liar...how many ppl claimed to be jesus in the past century...they were liars just like Elijah Mohamed... and i see that u have admitted the trinity is fraud...and trinity is supposed to be the foundation of christianity...the reason u can't defend it is for the same reason the biggest pastors in the world can't defend it...u have indirectly agreed that the trinity doesn't make sense...so why do u have to follow something that doesn't make sense? u answer that lost soul...
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| | Wednesday, January 31, 2001 - 10:14 pm I would like to see johny answering wisdoms Questions with out digging in the bush and using techniques and strategies that doesn't work. Bye
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| | Thursday, February 01, 2001 - 08:05 am *Sigh* You know what people i am constantly seeking ways to increase and strengthen my Iman and understanding. It would go against my personal practices to point my fingure at anyone and call them ignorant or a Kafir for i am not sure of my level of understanding, but i can for sure say one thing to anyone who is willing to devote so much energy to try to play a game of comparison with the books given to man by Allah[SWT]... At least you are making the effort to read and i suppose that is a step towards self education... Walaal i believe in Allah[SWT] unconditional and i also believe Allah[SWT] guides us all, so if Allah[SWT] has givin you the mission of testing the Islamic people who use this forum then please do your best to try and add or subtract anything you like to our knowledge of Islam. I am not qualified to help you and i have not read the words of anyone who is able to enlighten your heart or offer any possible way for you to alter your point of view. Seek the help of someone who has greater dept in Islam, any mosque near you will have well versed Muslims who can help. If however your only desire is to create division in the somali community, then i hope somalis will see through your disguised plan..... Every man has the right to be and do as he wills for that is the right given to him by Allah[SWT]... For those of us Allah[SWT] has blinded there is nothing anyone on earth could say to them or show them until Allah[SWT] opens their eyes. I hope and pray Allah[SWT] does guide us to the right path. I ask only one thing you all seem well read/educated or what ever... Islam is clearly without a doubt a guide to peace, love,order,justice and many more things that you know for yourself so please don't insult those of us that wish to follow. Even in war there are rules of conduct and human rights... Your words are clear unadulterated attack... May Allah[swt] forgive us all...
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| | Thursday, February 01, 2001 - 08:20 am WHAT ABOUT THOSE FOLKS WHO BELIEVE IN NO RELIGION ? Imagine you die, and nothing happens, no heaven nor hell. Religion is created when man reaches into the unknown. It comforts him to believe in a hereafter and a Spirit who will correct the injustice of the world. So to the Christian or Muslim Proponents, take my words to heart. This world is your heaven or your hell depending on what you make it. SOMALIS AGAINST RELIGIOUS DEBATES (SARD) The only ONE TRUE RELIGION FOR SOMALIS IS QABIIL. QABIIL IS OUR RELIGION, WE DIE, KILL FOR IT.
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| | Thursday, February 01, 2001 - 10:28 am subxaanaalh, first of all I whant to give you credit kamal for you are the only one in here who is neutral......and I whant to welcome you to the debate....we are sertinetly short of guys like you..... and to this one called Sard.....what do I loose on beliving??? answer that.....maybe I come to a here after with no hell or paradise......but that doesn't mean I belived in vaine for such is not the case.......I belive and I still belive and I hope that I belive in the future for no man can truley be happy without faith.....you see the atiest is always unhappy.....the polyteist is always confused....but only the monoteist is always filled with strength ...........I belive and I still belive..........( it sounds like Dr Martin kings speach I have a dream....I still have a dream...... ) and tell me sard how can you call Qabiil for religion??? qabiil is something Allah swt has given us so that we know each other.......but now days people think that qabiil is some excuse to think that they are better than the other......and that is wrong.....religion is supose to be something constructive and qabiil now days is something destructive.....so how can you say that qabiil is our religion......people say that qabiil was what started the war but I say NO.....Ignorance is what started the war....but Qabiil is not the Topic mr Sard.........Religion is....... Johnny, right now I feel sorry for you......everyone is on your back......but I suppose that you knew that this would happen you.....Johnny you said "I think it would be unfair for me to ask you to defend a subject that I heard a muslim talking about - for instance, Elijah Mohammed is said to be the last muslim prophet how does that relate to what the Quran says. You see it is unfair for me to bring up something like that off-the-wall and out-of-the-blue and then ask you to defend it." yes it is unfair for us to bring up something "off-the-wall and out-of-the-blue and then ask you to defend it...but johnny don't forget that you were the one who started by saying : "It is written that it greived God to have to destroy HIS creation and in heaven among all the hosts in heaven, God asked the question, ...WHO IS WORTHY TO OPEN THE BOOK OF THE 7th SEAL...? And the LAMB of God (before HIS named was changed to Jesus)agreed to open the Book of the 7th Seal and to do all in it that has been written. God and the Lamb of God had agreed that only death will take away mankind's sin and the Lamb will die for all of mankind as an offering of sin" "I don't come in my name (Jesus)but in the Father's name (the MOST HIGH GOD)who has sent me." now you must try to see it from our point of view...you were the one who came up with this...we didn't bring it up with you out-of-the-blue..try to see it from a muslims view...we are belivers of one God and trinity is something we are not use to our commen sense doesn't allow us to belive that or have some understanding for it......cuse there is no logic in it......so why not ask a christian? so we asked you...but it seems to us that you don't have the answers.........but u ask us question and we answer you......it's as simple as that............ now to your statement.....about Elijah wood you said how does that relay to the quran...well I told you before and I tell you it again...what a muslim claim doesn't necessary have to be what Islam stands for.......Elijah wood is a man nothing other than that......and that preducation about Elijah is not a question that most muslims get.......but the question about the trinity is a question most christians get and that is understandable becuse the christian faith is in some how based/founded on that trinity......or? and to the others don't take it so personal.....everyone has the right to say what they whant but do it in a good way.....don't force your belif on someone else........ take care for now
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| | Thursday, February 01, 2001 - 01:41 pm Professor I am still not getting your point. This is a "dabate" between Islam and Christianity. Like I said before, "Ignorance" is, not having a "knowledge" of the basis in which you speak of. I suggest you look at the dictionary for that word. You then stated that I am trying to convince Johnnyjake a religion in which he has doubts for. Well, I just laid down the facts, having learned both Christianity and Islam, those are the facts. You either take it or leave it, it is all up to the individual. You spoke of "Sociology," I don't see what that has to do with this discussion. I have taken several sociology classes, they focus on society and its invironmental problems(eg. homelessnes, the poor, racism, etc.) This topic is more closely related to my Ethics philosophy course, which focuses on defending the view in which you hold.
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| | Thursday, February 01, 2001 - 01:42 pm In London Uk there are these christians who call themself Johova witnesses. They are very well known for knocking on people's doors and subjecting them to something that is as near harassment as anything on earth. Basically it was there believe that all who are not part of there church will go to hell..Correct me if i am wrong but i think Islam is the only religion that leaves the decision of who goes to hell or heaven to Allah[SWT]... May allah forgive my ignorance but i read that the people of the Torah will be divided into 71sects and of them 1sect of the people of the Torah will enter heaven... Of the people of the the bible also 1sect from a divergance of72sect... Of the Ummah of mohamed[SAW] the followers of Islam will divide into 73sect of which only 1sect will also enter heaven... If i am wrong correct me please... but all other religions who seem to believe that islam is the most intollerant of faiths, name me one that says anyone other then those of their following will enter heaven. I have never encountered the Torah, but i grewup in a Seventh day advantist Boarding school "American influence" and i know the their bible cover to cover... according to them the world we leave in was to have ended in 1985... To anyone who is of a different faith after much stress over human opinion please keep in mind that there is more to co-existnace then just the right to freedom of speach... common curtecy, mutual respect, also if you have love for your people and have a real understanding of what is truely defficient in your community then you would share my view point. Be a hero not the villian, our community is full of villians but no visible heros... As most that are ahead of us have had we lack individuals that are willing to scarifice for the good of their own... this is apparent in all african communities. I ask you once again to think before you leap into a long defence arguement about what you know and what we don't know and may not need to know... If my view point does not please your field of view mine is 17" and it clear but in case your monitor is somehow 2" and you are using a magnifying glass then may present you with the truth of the matter .... Bismillaahir Rahmaanir Rahiim Qul yaa ayyuhal Kaafirrun Laa a budu maa ta buduun Wa laa antum aabiduuna maa abud Wa laa ana aabidum maa abattum Wa laa antum aabiduuna maa abud Lakum diinukum wa liya diin... Co-existance is a design of Allah[SWT] i got not trouble with Ibn-Adam... Judgement truely lies with the Creator of the Universe... May Allah[SWT] forgive us all, for we are all imperfect human beings... .......................... I am curious, do board support Html tag? :-) if not too bad... <html> <body> <marquee><blink> ::::::::::::: </blink></marquee></body></marquee></html>
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| | Thursday, February 01, 2001 - 05:45 pm Peace and blessings to you all in the name of Jesus! I am glad many of you have been actively posting thats great. Anonymous/Professor I will answer Wisdoms question if you like and I will answer your questions as well. I never run away from a sensible debate. Wisdom your question is: "and i see that u have admitted the trinity is fraud...and trinity is supposed to be the foundation of christianity...the reason u can't defend it is for the same reason the biggest pastors in the world can't defend it...u have indirectly agreed that the trinity doesn't make sense...so why do u have to follow something that doesn't make sense?" My answer is: There is no Trinity as intrepreted by the ignorant and the mistaught Christians. There are not 3 gods (trinity) but only 2 or Elohim the plural for El meaning 1 God. As I had said before there is the MOST HIGH GOD, and The Lamb of God, aka-<also known as> (Jesus the Anointed, The Word of God, Melchezedek, YHVH, Jehovah 'I AM' and GOD/Priest/King of Israel and all the world) As I explained in my earier postings, The Most High God gives a Commandment to Jesus and Jesus gives it to the Angel Gabriel - not 3 Gods but Elohim and Angel. The confusion of the trinity has been taught by the ignorant and false prophets who really didnt understand God's Holy Word. I treat this subject indeptly in earier postings. The concept of Elohim and Angels make total sense to me so I dont know where you are going with this. You are the one who dont understand it not I. You are the one at the disadvantage! You see I have read the Torah, Injel and Quran. Your knowledge is limited and you lack understanding - thats why you and many other muslims attack what they dont understand. The fault is your own not mine so why attack me because I was able to evaluate these books. YOu have alot of catching up to do to be on the same level. Ask the prof to help you more and then come back with something that is more challenging. peace
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| | Thursday, February 01, 2001 - 06:10 pm My Dear Sweet Jamilla, Peace and blessings to you Sister. If Islam has any treasures you are a real Jewel of Islam! Ok, enough of that!!!! Your question/comment: "Johnny, right now I feel sorry for you......everyone is on your back......but I suppose that you knew that this would happen you....." Please Jamilla thanks for your concern but please dont feel sorry for me - I am a man! I wanted this discussion to change directions and get more scholarly as it is doing slowly. The professor is an added value here because he is able to coach others into thinking. Do you know that before the Professor made his comments about how others were trying to prove their points with me by using information that I didnt beleive in, like the Quran-I thought I was retarded or something. You all were not making sense to me but you made sense to each other - thats what was scary to me. Now I see how Islam gather others with pure bombardment of the same things over and over until the person gets conditioned into thinking that the majority knows what it is talking about but it really doesnt. It is a form of brainwashing and subliminal suggestions that conditions the person into acceptance of the group. It is like being the only sane person in a crazy house! Adaptive behavior will make a person comform to the majority behavior - whether it be joining a religious group or mob actions. So thats how its done? SHAME!
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| | Thursday, February 01, 2001 - 08:22 pm johnnyjake: before there were three gods and now there is two gods...wow you r getting closer to the truth...lets forget about that...i am not even going to argue that... what i am going is: if u say jesus was god then how come he died... i know what your answer is going to be: you'll say he died for the sins of people... now that is what doesn't make sense...that means christianity is not fair...i could go kill a person if i wasn't worried about going to jail and i would say jesus died for my sins...u tell me, does that make sense... that means christianity teaches it's followers not to be responsible for their actions... WHAT DO U HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THAT... and u r always talking about how u analyze the torah, injel, and the holy Quran...u r just claiming that...what do u know about the Quran... u r just saying that to look like someone who did some research... you yourself said before that jesus never said any where in the bible to worship or that is a god...BUT WHY ARE U SAYING HE IS A GOD NOW, WHEN JESUS NEVER SAID IT HIMSELF?...man u have no case...you r contradicting yourself everytime...oh sorry it is not u...it is your religion... i'll try my best to put on the right path... here are some verses in the quran telling us what is going to happen in the day of judgement when Allah will question jesus about what you claiming he is(god)...pay good attention to this... 5:116-117 5:116; And behold Allah will say: "oh Jesus son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, 'Worship and my mother As gods in derogation of Allah'?" He will say: "Glory to Thee! Never could i say What i had no right (To say). Had I said such a thing, Thou wouldst have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, though i Know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full All that is hidden. 5:117; "Never said I to them Aught except what Thou didst command me To say, to wit, 'Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord'; And i was a witness Over them whilst i dwelt Amongst them; when Thou Didst take me up Thou was a watcher Over them, and Thou Art a witness to all things. johnnyjake this is what is going to happen in the day of judgement and this is Allah's word...u have heard it now...take it or leave...it is your choice...and whatever i said right now will be held against you in the day of judgement if u reject it because the truth came to u and you chose not to follow it... and don't forget to answer my questions...incase you haven't noticed the questions are in bold... peace out
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| | Friday, February 02, 2001 - 06:20 am HOW CAN U GUYS QUESTION ISLAM, I BET IF U WERE IN SOMALIA U WOULD NOT HAVE THE GUTS TO SAY WHAT U R SAYING NOW, YOU JUST WANT TO BE "WESTERNSED" HOW CAN YOU QUESTION A RELIGION THAT TEACHS US TO BE HONEST,LOYAL,FAITHFUL,STRONG, RESPECTFUL ETC CONCIDENSLY THESE ARE THE THINGS THAT ARE LACKING IN THE PEOPLE OF TODAY WHY? BECAUSE THEY CHOICE TO ABDON ISLAM, DOES THAT TELL U ABOUT HOW RIGHT AND TRUE ISLAM IS. OR DO U CHOOSE TO BE IGNORANT TO THE TRUTH THAT'S STARRING U IN THE FACE WRITE TO ME, LET ME KNOW WHAT U THINK PEACE OUT BRO/SIS
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| | Friday, February 02, 2001 - 07:32 am idil basically you have reduced sociology to a mre branch of knowledge which deals with the issues you have listed..well then , second mistake and i might say, an abnormal one from your side..Since you are here dealing with a person who is totally against that which you believe, and i guess you too, then it is only reasonable to suggest that the interaction of this nature can be explained in many ways using our knowledge of sociology..To understand why a certain group of people behave as they do, we need to go beyond mere generalizations and aim for a broader purpose in addressing those issues,, You say you have studied sociology,or have taken steps in that direction, i wonder and have doubts as to the truth of your statements.. Again,,Human rationality plays greater role in any discussion, by coming down to earthly lofty issues ,,you can solve your misunderstanding towards each other,,Using the quran or the bible will not help you reach a common framework for resolution, rather it will contribute to widen the evr-growing gap between christians and and muslims... I am righ because allah said islam is the truth,,...---idil johnyjake---iam right becausee jesus tells me christianity is the true religion,,.. Analysing these arguments ,,one can visualise the impossibility inherent within it if one argues his position by forwarding evidences that are grounded in his/her religion.. What this causes is a drift in the general discussion and as a result the issue becomes blurred as both sides engage a relentless conviction og righteousness,,.. Idil,,that is why i said,,come down from the revelation and address the issue in a manner that is consistent with human rationality,,even fools sometimes follow the dictates of human reasoning,,,
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| | Friday, February 02, 2001 - 01:32 pm Book 14, Number 2478: Narrated Imran ibn Husayn: The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: A section of my community will continue to fight for the right and overcome their opponents till the last of them fights with the Antichrist. Book 14, Number 2498: Narrated Anas ibn Malik: The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Use your property, your persons any your tongues in striving against the polytheists. Book 14, Number 2505: Narrated AbuHurayrah: I heard the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) say: What is evil in a man are alarming niggardliness and unrestrained cowardice. Book 14, Number 2509: Narrated Mu'adh ibn Jabal: The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Fighting is of two kinds: The one who seeks Allah's favour, obeys the leader, gives the property he values, treats his associates gently and avoids doing mischief, will have the reward for all the time whether he is asleep or awake; but the one who fights in a boasting spirit, for the sake of display and to gain a reputation, who disobeys the leader and does mischief in the earth will not return credit or without blame. Book 14, Number 2515: Narrated Hasana' daughter of Mu'awiyah: She reported on the authority of her paternal uncle: I asked the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him): Who are in Paradise? He replied: Prophets are in Paradise, martyrs are in Paradise, infants are in Paradise and children buried alive are in Paradise. Book 14, Number 2516: Narrated AbudDarda': The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: The intercession of a martyr will be accepted for seventy members of his family. ********************************************** My greatest fear when i started my path to re-discover islam be a muslim not just have a muslim by name was that i would hate anyone for their difference. I must say i have a lot of hate in me for those that are mocking Islam... ********************************************** Book 14, Number 2530: Narrated Abdullah ibn Mas'ud: The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Our Lord Most High is pleased with a man who fights in the path of Allah, the Exalted; then his companions fled away (i.e. retreated). But he knew that it was a sin (to flee away from the battlefield), so he returned, and his blood was shed. Thereupon Allah, the Exalted, says to His angels: Look at My servant; he returned seeking what I have for him (i.e. the reward), and fearing (the punishment) I have, until his blood was shed. Book 14, Number 2531: Narrated AbuHurayrah: Amr ibn Uqaysh had given usurious loans in pre-Islamic period; so he disliked to embrace Islam until he took them. He came on the day of Uhud and asked: Where are my cousins? They (the people) replied: At Uhud. He asked: Where is so-and-so? They said: At Uhud. He asked: Where is so-and-so? They said: At Uhud. He then put on his coat of mail and rode his horse; he then proceeded towards them. When the Muslims saw him, they said: Keep away, Amir. He said: I have become a believer. He fought until he was wounded. He was then taken to his family wounded. Sa'd ibn Mu'adh came to his sister: Ask him (whether he fought) out of partisanship, out of anger for them, or out of anger for Allah. He said: Out of anger of Allah and His Apostle. He then died and entered Paradise. He did not offer any prayer for Allah. Book 25, Number 3634: Narrated AbudDarda': Kathir ibn Qays said: I was sitting with AbudDarda' in the mosque of Damascus. A man came to him and said: AbudDarda, I have come to you from the town of the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) for a tradition that I have heard you relate from the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him). I have come for no other purpose. He said: I heard the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) say: If anyone travels on a road in search of knowledge, Allah will cause him to travel on one of the roads of Paradise. The angels will lower their wings in their great pleasure with one who seeks knowledge, the inhabitants of the heavens and the Earth and the fish in the deep waters will ask forgiveness for the learned man. The superiority of the learned man over the devout is like that of the moon, on the night when it is full, over the rest of the stars. The learned are the heirs of the Prophets, and the Prophets leave neither dinar nor dirham, leaving only knowledge, and he who takes it takes an abundant portion. Book 35, Number 4230: Narrated Abdullah ibn Umar: When we were sitting with the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him), he talked about periods of trial (fitnahs), mentioning many of them. When he mentioned the one when people should stay in their houses, some asked him: Apostle of Allah, what is the trial (fitnah) of staying at home? He replied: It will be flight and plunder. Then will come a test which is pleasant. Its murkiness is due to the fact that it is produced by a man from the people of my house, who will assert that he belongs to me, whereas he does not, for my friends are only the God-fearing. Then the people will unite under a man who will be like a hip-bone on a rib. Then there will be the little black trial which will leave none of this community without giving him a slap, and when people say that it is finished, it will be extended. During it a man will be a believer in the morning and an infidel in the evening, so that the people will be in two camps: the camp of faith which will contain no hypocrisy, and the camp of hypocrisy which will contain no faith. When that happens, expect the Antichrist (Dajjal) that day or the next. Book 35, Number 4232: Narrated Hudhayfah ibn al-Yaman: Subay' ibn Khalid said: I came to Kufah at the time when Tustar was conquered. I took some mules from it. When I entered the mosque (of Kufah), I found there some people of moderate stature, and among them was a man whom you could recognize when you saw him that he was from the people of Hijaz. I asked: Who is he? The people frowned at me and said: Do you not recognize him? This is Hudhayfah ibn al-Yaman, the companion of the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him). Then Hudhayfah said: People used to ask the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) about good, and I used to ask him about evil. Then the people stared hard at him. He said: I know the reason why you dislike it. I then asked: Apostle of Allah, will there be evil as there was before, after this good which Allah has bestowed on us? He replied: Yes. I asked: Wherein does the protection from it lie? He replied: In the sword. I asked: Apostle of Allah, what will then happen? He replied: If Allah has on Earth a caliph who flays your back and takes your property, obey him, otherwise die holding onto the stump of a tree. I asked: What will come next? He replied: Then the Antichrist (Dajjal) will come forth accompanied by a river and fire. He who falls into his fire will certainly receive his reward, and have his load taken off him, but he who falls into his river will have his load retained and his reward taken off him. I then asked: What will come next? He said: The Last Hour will come. Book 35, Number 4250: Narrated Al-Miqdad ibn al-Aswad: I swear by Allah, I heard the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) say: The happy man is he who avoids dissensions: happy is the man who avoids dissensions; happy is the man who avoids dissensions: but how fine is the man who is afflicted and shows endurance. Book 37, Number 4284: Narrated Thawban: The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: The people will soon summon one another to attack you as people when eating invite others to share their dish. Someone asked: Will that be because of our small numbers at that time? He replied: No, you will be numerous at that time: but you will be scum and rubbish like that carried down by a torrent, and Allah will take fear of you from the breasts of your enemy and last enervation into your hearts. Someone asked: What is wahn (enervation). Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him): He replied: Love of the world and dislike of death. ************************************************** If there is anything worth saying to a disbeliever then i prefer to share with them the endless knowledge that can be gained from the following sites......... ********************* http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/ http://wings.buffalo.edu/sa/muslim/isl/hadith1.html#TOC http://cwis.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/muwatta/ http://cwis.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/abudawud/
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| | Friday, February 02, 2001 - 07:26 pm johnnyjake are you there... i am still waiting for your answers...
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| | Saturday, February 03, 2001 - 02:02 am Salamu Calaykum bro/sis waxaan arkaa in halkan lagaga doodayo diin. waxaan doonayaa inaan idiin sheego in johnnyake aanu ahayn muslim ee uu halkan u yimi in uu isku dayo inuu ina fitneeyo oo hadii ay u suuro gasho uu qaarkeen diinta ka saaro. waxaa cibro inoogu filan in dadka wax bartay ee reer galbeedku ay maalin kasta ka tegayaan diinta kiristaanka oo agelayaan islaama ama noqonayaan dad aan diin lahayn. Islam is the fastest growing religion on the earth.And every ethnic are joining it. markaa johnny is not a Muslim. ask him to wright his message in Somali. allah xaqa ha inagu hanuuniyo dhamaanteenba.
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| | Saturday, February 03, 2001 - 02:04 am Salamu Calaykum bro/sis waxaan arkaa in halkan lagaga doodayo diin. waxaan doonayaa inaan idiin sheego in johnnyake aanu ahayn muslim ee uu halkan u yimi in uu isku dayo inuu ina fitneeyo oo hadii ay u suuro gasho uu qaarkeen diinta ka saaro. waxaa cibro inoogu filan in dadka wax bartay ee reer galbeedku ay maalin kasta ka tegayaan diinta kiristaanka oo agelayaan islaama ama noqonayaan dad aan diin lahayn. Islam is the fastest growing religion on the earth.And every ethnic are joining it. markaa johnny is not a Muslim. ask him to wright his message in Somali. allah xaqa ha inagu hanuuniyo dhamaanteenba.
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| | Saturday, February 03, 2001 - 07:12 am johnnyjake i know my questions will make you doubt your faith...but why follow a religion which you have doubts about...i see that you can't answer the questions...u have admitted that christianity is a religion full of doubts and contradictions...and the reason for that is it has been put together by men just like you and me... i have shown you all these contradictions in christianity and i CHALLENGE you to find ONE, just one contradiction in Islam...
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| | Saturday, February 03, 2001 - 08:16 am Can No,No, No you missed the point.. we do not want to be westernized, but we do want to get rid off the arabized mentality or arabisization!!!! we are entire ppl whom are brain washed by jaahil Arabs. We have had enough mental emptness caused by copying and trying to perform ignorant Arab Culture/Religion... I can't stand, I cannot tolerate anymore about Arab Culture, Religion, Language... because we systematically failed, so let's try what other ppl in this world can offer to us, lets read.. Japanese Budda, or Australian Aborigins's culture, or South-African Zulu Animist, or Roman Catholic, or Methodist.... or even make up a new faith... But please no, no, no, and still (Basta)Arab one (what you call Islam one)
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| | Saturday, February 03, 2001 - 08:47 am HA HA HA.......BRAINWAHSED I GUESS THE WHITE MAN DID A GOOD JOB BY BRAINWASHING YOU INTO BELIVING THAT ISLAM BELONGS to ARABS ONLY..........  you are FAILED BRO SORRY......BUT YOU ARE BRAINWASHED.......
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| | Saturday, February 03, 2001 - 10:23 am i somehow get the feeling that warsame, diirshe, professor and johnnyjake are all the same person.
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| | Saturday, February 03, 2001 - 11:04 am Peace and Blessings in the name of Jesus! Sorry for not getting back to this fine topic sooner but I must keep the Sabbath too. Wisdom thanks for your patience in waiting for your answer. As I had said before, God gave mankind laws and commandments to keep. Each man will be judged by his/her sins. Dont be confused by the death of Jesus. Jesus came and died for our sins against the second death (lake of fire) not the first death. Each man will be judged during Judgement day for his sins against God. But before Jesus came to earth as a man to die as a man, all of mankind was doomed to the lake of fire (the second death) because of the sin of Adam. As it is written "...a body has thou prepared for me..." this body made for The Lamb of God, aka Jesus, Melchizedek-Priest of the MOST HIGH GOD, etc. As you know a spritual being cannot die like a man. God requires blood for sin and the blood of animals will not do for the sins of mankind! So Jesus came to take away the 'Death Sentence' off of mankind and again - it's the second death sentence. Wisdom: Now your question about if Jesus died for man's sins then why cant a person kill and get away with this sin and say "hey Jesus died for my sins so I am not guilty?" Jesus didnt come to remove God's Laws and Commandments but to fulfill them. The man who sins will still be judged at Judgement Day for them. But before the death of Jesus for mankinds sins' we were all doomed to the lake of fire. Now I ask you all who love truth and understanding ...I Jesus camed to earth as a man to die for our sins, What is wrong with that!!!!!? Now I will tell you more of what you didnt know before: When the time of the End of the World will come, there will be some things that will happen: 1) The Jews (false Jews who are Edomites) will build a temple in the outercourt way of the Al-Asqur mosque in Jerusalem. 2)The Pope in Rome will take it over and establish his seat there as god of this earth for 3 1/2yrs. He will assemble his nations from Europe and create his armies. He will get his power from satan the devil and make fire fall from the sky. He will create The beast and exact a mark on all to follow the Beast and this false prophet. 3)The Beast and the False prophet will attack other countries and start wars and meet in the vally of Middigado(Armagedon) 4)The Lamb of God will appear in the sky. He will tell the Angels to go and seal all the saints of God in their foreheads for protection. He will command other Angels to blow the 7 trumpets and to pour out the 7 vials of destruction as each trumpet blows. 5)As the last trumpet is blown there will be a great shout in heaven. And the dead in Jesus will raise from the graves first to meet Jesus in the sky as HE desends on the Mount of Olives. The Beast and the False Prophet will be casted alive in the Lake of Fire that will be created before Jerusalem. 6)After the Day of Battle, the Angel Michael will put great chains on satan for 1,000 years. Jesus will rule the earth in Jerusalem for 1,000 in peace. Those who beleive in Jesus will be with HIM in this great Sabbath as priest and rulers of other nations. 7)After the LORDs Sabbath of 1,000 years is over - Satan will be released from his chains for alittle season. He will organize the people of Gog and Mag to do battle. But God in heaven will strike fire down and destroy them all. Then Satan and his unholy angels will be casted into the Lake of Fire with the Beast and the False Prophet. 8)The Most High God will bring down "New Jerusalem as a bride adorned for her husband" There will be 12 gates after the 12 tribes of Israel. Everyone will have to affliate with one of the 12 tribes to enter into the city. I have given you the events of the end of the earth in a nutshell. There are more details that can be gather in the Book of Revelations. YOu can do it online at www.bible.com I hope those who seek understanding will want to read on for their own knowledge and salvation. Peace
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| | Saturday, February 03, 2001 - 11:11 am Dear Diirshe, I agree with you 100%! I can see the brain washingness in the attitude in muslim sisters especially - when they get kick in the a55 the tell you "... it wasnt in my a55 it was my shoulders and islam allows for that to happen, etc etc ..." Yeah right! wake up and smell the coffee. Dont pee on my head and tell me it's raining!~!!
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| | Saturday, February 03, 2001 - 11:42 am Forensic This time , you have shown me that you arent any longer a forensic except an imaginative guy whose imagination has misled him to come to such an arrogant conclusion.By the way, forensics dont jump to conclusions. They are of course cautious and careful ..but you,,are an utter failure ...
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| | Saturday, February 03, 2001 - 02:01 pm Hey Professor, Are you a Prof in a university in the USA or is it a title that you like to use? Anyway it is good to have your input and to try to keep us all thinking about our beleive systems. peace
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| | Saturday, February 03, 2001 - 02:19 pm To all Muslims in this discussion area: I am sorry if I insulted anyone or have been rude regarding what you beleive but I think to be a muslim is to be an Arab or an Arab-wanna-bee! It is written ...with stammering lips and another tongue will God talk with HIS people... So that means in many languages will God talk with HIS people not only arabic! I will not ask anymore questions (out of respect for muslims) that may be offensive to islam. After all - none of you wrote the Quran and shouldnt have to answer for whats in it. peace
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| | Saturday, February 03, 2001 - 02:54 pm Jamiila cadeey, Let's say I am brain-washed by the Westerns... Ok., but do you accept that you are brain-washed by Arabs?. If yes, which is better? If No, I can see that you have a nice smile with chicken brain. Sis you need to hygiene your small central nervous system. Take it easy Diirshe
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| | Saturday, February 03, 2001 - 03:03 pm Forensic Spec. If you are still student, you need to practice a lot and You have a long way to go. If an exam is close to you, sure you will fail and good luck. If you are already finished your study, that is a disaster. Bro you need to change the profession. In bocca a lupo.
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| | Saturday, February 03, 2001 - 04:36 pm It is so funny to hear these kids cut and paste information from some void in the WWW.lies.com. To you all...... HEAR ME ONCE AND ONCE ONLY... Allah[swt] sent messengers and people with the ability to inspire the words of Islam in the hearts of man throught out the history of man kind.... If Arabs produced the greatest of contributions to Islam then it is by will of allah[swt]to have given them the inspiration. Do you hate them because your forefathers might have had less input in the spread of the knowledge allah[swt] gave to mankind... Answer this what contribution do somalis make to the spread and preservation of the Islam in this day and age??? Diirshe:- brother you were born as a muslim... freewill was given to you by Allah[swt]... brother if i understand you right it is your understanding of the meaning and aim of Islam that is flawed!... shhhhhh rethink... check yourself before you reck yourself...Islam teaches you to seek knowledge in all fields of life, go forth and seek that knowledge but only when you have the necessary foundation which is your diin "Islam"... without that your effort is point less, for your perspective will undouptedly be without focus. Jonnyblade honestly brother your words cut through my soul without mercy, you are the illest of the illest. you speak with with a tongue sharpen then a blade... art thou the Dijjal amoungst mine kins men? Jonnyblade when they said the "the pen is mightier then the sword" they were reffering to the power of transmiting info, what ever your faith surely if you cause a single child to witness your words and hence lead them to become a polytheist or even faithless you would feel some shame... am i giving you too much credit to believe you have any emotion??? proffesor; of what? mis-guidence... in any war those that stand around pretending they are neutral are the ones who gain the most out of the conflict... to sum it up blade is the FATHER diirxi is the SON Pro-puff is the GOST We just need the 3withches and hey presto they might be able to start their own community... "CRAFTED COVENANT" out with you from amidst the inoccent and uncrupted..... disgracefull
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| | Saturday, February 03, 2001 - 08:29 pm kamal. Islam forces no one. Islam isnt a burden to no one except he who chooses to see it as a burden. Moreover, islam needs no one. On the contrary, it is we who need islam to save our souls. You accuse me of misguiding. What a narrow view!. Brother man, Allah guides whomsoever he wants to guide, and vice versa. How you came to such nonsense conclusion is a matter i dont wish to pursue any further. The tragedy however is tht there are individuals around here like you who are so impulsive and ready to jump to the wrong conclusion without digging deeper and familiarising themselves with the issues. It is no surprising then to see another stupid,dead Somali mentality depicted here, seeking the mere pleasure of criticism without base. You are indeed the one who is misguided. Furthermore, and i am laughumg at this, you babble and suggest that by-standers gain always in a conflict. I can't believ you have the heart to say such a generalization in public. Refresh your mind and understand that this is an open forum in which everyone forwards his input even if they are deplorable to certain sectors of the participants. Or have you forgotten that this was an open forum? Of course it is understandable if that is the case. And finally, a word of advice, of course you dont have to pay at all. It is free.."Dont misjudge people and jump to the wrong conclusion". You seem to be lamenting ....ah...ah..ah..ah....
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| | Saturday, February 03, 2001 - 09:08 pm There is no life after death.....We born live and die the End.... No heaven or hell! It all comes down to this: "walee hurdooy kaama dhergee waan kuu soo dhimani" Wa bilaahi towfiiq
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| | Sunday, February 04, 2001 - 12:35 am Yaa weeylanaa man bacathanaa min marqadinaa, haathaa maa wacada raxmaanu wasaddaqal mursaloon. - Marqadinaa = Jiifkayaga, Hurdadayada. Aayadaasi macnaheedu wuxuu yahay: Hoog baa inoo sugnaaday, yaa inaga kacshay hurdada, war maanta waa maalinkii uu Alle inoo ballan qaaday inuu iman doono, rusushi lasoo dirayna ay ka run sheegeen. Hadaba yaan rumeeynaa dadoow waa iga su'aalee... ma qoftaan hurdada usii damaanda dhiganayso... mise Allihii ina abuurtay? Wabilaahi Tawfiq
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| | Sunday, February 04, 2001 - 02:26 am THIS TOPIC SEEMS TO HAVE CHANGED DIRECTION....NOW ALL SORTS OF CHARECTERS WITH NO KNOWLEDGE WHATSO EVER IS SHARING THEIR VIEWS......IF YOU DEBATE REMEMBER DIIRSHE I RATHER BE BRAINWASHED BY ARABS WITH KNOWLEDGE OF ALLAH SWT AND HIS REALIGION..THAN WESTERN FOOLS WHO RESENTLY BECAME SO CALLED " INTELIGENT" THEY DIDN'T EVEN TAKE SHOWER MAYBE ONCE A YEAR DISCUSTING......THIS PEOPLE WHO USED TO BURN THEIR WOMAN IF SHE SHOWED ANY SINCE OF INTELIGENSE...CALLED HER A WITCH......COME ON IF YOU PREFERE THE WESTERN PEOPLE THAN YOU ARE A FOOL...........AND DON'T INSULT ME......CUSE I KNOW WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT AND YOU DON'T...........THE ARABS WERE A IGNORANTE PEOPLE BEFORE ISLAM CAME AND INLIGHTED THEM..........BUT THE WESTERN THEY WERE WORSER THAN ANIMALS.......SO DIIRSHE......DO YOUR SELF A FAVOR.......LEAVE THIS TOPIC............ SHE-DEVIL.....I REALLY FEEL SORRY FOR YOU............
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| | Sunday, February 04, 2001 - 07:46 am Anonymous walaalo waan ku fahmay somali qorintaydu way tahay deif, lakin dadkan innago ciyaray ummaleynayo in ay yihiin dad ah somali markaa inkasto aan jacelahey in aan lasee hadlo waxtigeyga iyo maskexdayda uun ban ku ciyyaar... Prof it is a skill amoung the well versed, to be able to express an opinion with a speech that will bore all to sleep..... forgive me if i have not bottered to read all you mumbo jumbo... I agree i did jumb to a conclusion but was i wrong to assume with all the knowledge you have given to you by Allah[swt]you don't value Islam!!!know Islam is oven attacked by non-muslims but also by people who are muslim by name.... I fail to understand your neutrality... simple ******** Arguments from ignorance lead to no solution. And as it appears, the two sides seem to be resorting to their respective holy books for evidentiary support. Though it is quite frankly sad to see one deviate from the societal norms, we have to know one thing for certain that god has given each one of you the will to choose which way to follow. ******** what confusses me with just mere Public school mentality is:- -"Arguments from ignorance lead to no solution".. huh... We have to defend Islam with ever particle of evidence known to us... -"the two sides seem to be resorting to their respective holy books for evidentiary support"... forgive my ignorance again but from that i read you are neither muslin nor christian... -"It is no surprising then to see another stupid,dead Somali mentality depicted here" Ru somali? man allah[swt] knows truely what is in my heart, if am wrong istakhfurullah... all i hear in that statement is exactly what you are accusing me off "impulsive judgement"... forgive me if i have wronged you in my character analysis but if you see how i began my contribution to this fruitless depate you will even See that JAMIILA considered me to be NEUTRAL... Allahu akbar Hadaad tahey qof somali ah siidaa umaad hedilehayn markaa walaalo waxaa kaa beryayaa hadaad dadkiina wax u shegeysid wax nafla uu sheeg hadii kale walaalo iska aamus oo afkaaga isku heeyso... Illahey ha ku tuso runta aad raadineyso ..... My somali is deif as i mensioned earlier but i'm willing to learn.. ******** May allah guide us all... c/salaam P.S. I do understand that this is general forum and i can always confine myself to stay in the Islamic pages... but i won't not so long as there are hypocrites around to twist and illude the minds of ummada nebi Mohamed[pbuh]
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| | Sunday, February 04, 2001 - 07:53 am i won't even reply to the other fools in here who arguing without any knowledge... johnnyjake: the more things u say the more you prove that u r dumb... u said: "I am sorry if I insulted anyone or have been rude regarding what you beleive but I think to be a muslim is to be an Arab or an Arab-wanna-bee!" let me ask you: what language was the original bible in? it was in hebrew because jesus was sent to the israelites and the only them...just like moses... and on the other hand Muhammed (saw) was sent to all mankind...God chose Mohammed to be his messenger...the Quan is revealed in arabic because Mohammed is an arab... it was Allah's choice to make any one he wants to be the last prophet...are you gonna tell Allah who to chose... for example: lets say that you are the owner of a big company and you wanna chose a ceo...it is your choice who u gonna make the ceo because you are the owner...just like that Allah does whatever he wants to do... and the other thing is that if the Quran was revealed in English, or Spanish or Portugues you would still see the unbelievers saying why is it like that and why is it not like this... in that case i proved that it is wrong for u to say "why is the Quran in arabic?" the answer is Allah wanted it to be like that... johnnyjake: u haven't still answered my other question which was: you have agreed before that there is no place in bible where jesus says i am God, so why did you say that there are two gods and one of them is jesus? aren't you going against jesus' teachings? and pls answer the questions straight forward and don't go in circles...
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| | Sunday, February 04, 2001 - 08:47 am Jamiila, Kamal and other Islam representatives Getting down into the matter, all what you are saying is that "if you are not Muslim You are fool". That is neither right nor fair. I can understand that one human being sometimes could jump a conclusion without using a minimum necessary brain to articulate a moderate discussion, but it's very difficult to me to understand most of Somali Muslims make such strong statements against non Somali Muslims based upon fear of Allah. You guys you shouldn't fear Allah, if you believe him you should LOVE him. because fear it can only push you to act unconsciously on everything and to express your repressed negative feelings, such as anger, violence, terrorism etc. Let them (non Muslims) express their feelings, ideas, etc. If Allah doesn't like them, he will punish them in the day of judgment, if not they were right about what they said. After all Allah said: "LAKUM DIINAKUM WALIYA DIINI" Peace
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| | Sunday, February 04, 2001 - 11:12 am My dear brother Wisdom, To answer your questions: " u haven't still answered my other question which was: you have agreed before that there is no place in bible where jesus says i am God, so why did you say that there are two gods and one of them is jesus? aren't you going against jesus' teachings?" Ok here are two answers your answer: #1 John 5:18 - This was why the Jews sought all the more to kill him, because he not only broke the sabbath but also called God his Father, making himself equal with God. #2 John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (The WORD=God and The MOST HIGH GOD=God, therefore Elohim-more than one in the Godfamily) 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God. 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. YOur other question: "what language was the original bible in? it was in hebrew because jesus was sent to the israelites and the only them...just like moses..." ANSWER to this question The original Comandments had to be written in Egptian Hierogylphics because that was the language that Moses was trained to write in. The Israelites liked in Egypt for over 400 years so it stands to reason that Hebrew wasnt invented during that time. Now that I have answered your questions - please answer my questions about the Quran: 1) Where in the Quran does it say that if you dont follow Islam you will burn in hell? 2) Where in the Quran does it say that if a muslim woman marries a christian man then she will burn in hell? 3)Where in the Quran does it say that(POTS) People of the Scriptures are Infidels and Kafirs? 4)Where in the Quran does it say that eating of camel meat is halal (clean)? 5)Where in the Quran does it say that drinking of alcohol is haram? NOTICE: To you Cut and Paste happy souls: you don't need to cut and paste just the scripture # and paraphase if you will. Peace
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| | Sunday, February 04, 2001 - 11:21 am Brother Kamal, The Truth is suppose to CUT LIKE A 2 Edge SWORD!!! Cut through the darkness of ignorance into the light of truth and justice. Peace
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| | Sunday, February 04, 2001 - 04:58 pm "1) Where in the Quran does it say that if you dont follow Islam you will burn in hell?" answer: to questions 1 and 3 3:19(Quran) The religion before Allah is Islam(submission to Allah)... 3:85(Quran) If any one desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), Never will it accepted of him; and in the hereafter he will be one of the losers. "4)Where in the Quran does it say that eating of camel meat is halal (clean)?" answer: eating camel meat is halal because there is no place in the Quran where it says eating camel eat is haram...whatever is not haram is halal... " 5)Where in the Quran does it say that drinking of alcohol is haram? " answer: 5:90(Quran) O ye who believe! Intoxicants and gambling, (Deidacation of) stones, and (divination by) arrows, are an abomination of satan's handiwork; stay away from such (abominations) that ye mat prosper. 5:91 Satan's plan is (but) To excite enmity and hatred between you, with intoxicants and gambling, and hinder you from the remembrance of Allah, and from prayer: will ye not abstain? "3)Where in the Quran does it say that(POTS) People of the Scriptures are Infidels and Kafirs?" answer: read verse 3:85 on the top johnnyjake i'll get back to you with the answer of your 2nd question...i have little bit of research...but the other 4 questions were very easy...
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| | Monday, February 05, 2001 - 08:42 am Wisdom & Jamiila, May allah pless you for your knowledge and love for Islam. I am proud to see people like you. PROFESSOR Loool. I wish I could print out your statements and show it my sociology proff. Let me give you a defintion of sociology which you should be familiar with(if have any knowledge of sociology): Sociology: Deals with contemporary social activities, actions and social structure of society. Focuses on the roots of problems, group behavior, personality information, socialization, deviance & control, population growth, abortion, drug abuse, Etc.. Again, sorry to burst your bubble, but what does sociology have to do with this debate? Are we trying to find the roots to Johnny's problems? Are we trying to define his belief being either a crime or devient? The answer ofcourse is "No" This is simply a "debate" I'll list all the sociology courses offered at post secondary level. Maybe you can tell me the one that you think is appropriate to our discussion. 1) Intro to Sociology 2) Current social issues 3) Race and Ethnic Relations 4) Marriage and Family 5) Urban sociology 6) Juvenile Deliquency 7) Sociology of Gender & Relations 8) Contemporary Sociologic Theory 9) Sociology of Families 10) Theories and Pattern of Ethnic Relations keep in mind, one or two sociology courses, does make one a "Professor"
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| | Monday, February 05, 2001 - 09:28 am Upon reading most of these writings, I realized that there are people of my culture and upbringing background with the same uncertainties about religion. I do believe in God and I also believe in one being in charge of His own salvation.... However, I also believe in this saying" WE DON'T CHOOSE GOD, GOD CHOOSES US" think about it and let's not deprive anyone from his ability to voice opinions.
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| | Monday, February 05, 2001 - 09:53 am JohnnyJake How sad, You couldn't win the "logical debate", so you turn the discussion into "personal attack" with statements like "You are brain washed by the Arabs" How low can you get? I thought you were smarter than that. I am going to answer some of the questions that you asked even though wisdom has already done so. What does the Qoran say about marrying "non muslims?" "Do not marry unbelieving women until they believe; a slave woman who believes is better than unbelieving woman, even though ahe allures you. Nor Marry your GIRLS to unbelievers until they believe; a slave man who believes is better than an unbeliever, even though he allures you. unbelievers do (but)beckon you to the fire, but Allah beckons by his grace to the Gardens of (bliss) & forgiveness." Albaqara 2:221 What does the Qoran say about non Muslims going to hell? "The Jews call Uzair the son of God, and the Christians say Christ the son of God; that is a saying from their mouth. They but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them. How they are deluded away from the truth." Al Tauba 9:30 "On the Day the Unbelievers will be placed before the fire (it will be said to them) "You received your good things in the life of the world and you took your pleasure out of them, But today shall you be recompenced with a penalty of humiliation: For that you were arrogant on earth without just cause; and that you(also) transgressed." AL Ahaqaf 46:20 "They have taken as lords besides Allah their rabbis(God) and their monks and Christ the son of Mary; yet they were commanded to worship but ONE Allah. There is no God but He. Praise and Glory to him. Far is he from having partners they associate(with him)." Al Tauaba 9:31 WHAT FOOD, are Lawful & What are Unlawful? Islam lays great emphasis on our physical as well as our moral health. It Allows all goods & pure things to be taken as food & drink. The Qoran says: " O mankind, eat the lawful and good things from what is in the earth & do not follow the foot steps of the devil. Surely, he is your open enemy." Qoran 2:168 PROHIBITED FOOD are: A)Dead animals & birds( those which died naturally) B)Animals Slain without the invoking Allah's Name C)Animals stranlged to Death D)Carnoivous Animals E)PIGS(the most dirty animal of all) F)Animals devoured by wild beasts Please NOTE, Scientis have found PIGS to be dirty with bacterias attached, Eating camel has never been an issue for the scientists as they know there are no health risks involved. DRINKING ALCOHOL "They ask concerning wine and Gambling. Say, "In them is a great sin, and some profit for men; but the sin is greater than the profit" AlBaqara 2:219 " O you who believe! intoxicants and Gambling(dedication of) stones, and (deviation by) arrows, are an abomination of Satan's handiwork. Eschew such (abomination) that you may prosper. Satan's plan is (but) to excite enmitty& hatred between you, with intoxicants and gambling & hinder you from prayer.Will you not then abstain?..." AlMaida 5:90-92
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| | Monday, February 05, 2001 - 11:14 am Idil Are you really SOCIOLOGY STUDENT? Please, you need to study deeper and concentrate harder on your field. I said this for the following reason-if you claim to be a student of sociology.. 1-Have you ever heard of Marx Weber...The founder of Modern Sociology of Religion? Here is a breif quote from one of my favorite proffessor who has a webpage dedicated to Marx Weber and his writings. This is what he has to say: "Max Weber's (1864-1920) sociology is the foundation of scientific sociology of religion in a sense of typological and objective understanding. Rejecting Karl Marx's evolutionary law of class society, or Emile Durkheim's sustained law of moral society, Weber established the understanding sociology of the subjective meaning of religious action or inaction. To make such knowledge of the understanding objective, he founded the methodology of the ideal type and the elective affinity of causal relationships. Weber "elaborated a set of categories, such as types of prophecy, the idea of charisma (spiritual power), routinization, and other categories, which became tools to deal with the comparative material; he was thus the real founder of comparative sociology." 1 Weber holds that there is no universal law of society as supposed in natural science, or the law of history which determines the course of the dynamic mechanically. The goal of Weber's sociology of religion is to understand religious action from the subjective meaning of the actor rationally and also emphatically; it is not to establish the laws of religion and society, or to extract the essence of religious action. Or the goal is not even to formulate and evaluate the social function of religion as Marx did that religion was the opium of the mass or as Durkheim did that religion was what made moral society hold together. Typological and comparative understanding of religious action depends on the theoretical construction of the ideal type through thinking or empathic experiments. Objective understanding of religious action, on the other hand, depends on the value-judgement free analysis of the subjective meaning of social action from the viewpoint of ideas as well as material and mental interests. To avoid the injunction of value-judgments, one has to distinguish the empirical recognition of "what is" from the normative judgment of "what should be." The validity of an ethical claim is not the matter of social analysis, but the matter of conscience and belief. The criteria of value-judgment is imperative, and does not depend on empirical reality. The understanding of "what is," on the other hand, involves not just empirical facts of social action, but also the subjective meaning of the social action. Social action is not mechanical reaction of the law of material interests, but the dynamic of ideas and interests which give the actor the conscious or unconscious meaning of life and the world. In order to understand sociological reality of religion, Weber holds the importance of religious idea which cannot be reduced to the component of material interests (Marx) or to the social nexus and function (Durkheim). Weber says: Not ideas, but material and ideal [ideological] interests, directly govern men's conduct. Yet very frequently the world images that have been created by ideas, like a switchman, have determined the tracks along which action has been pushed by the dynamic of interest. "by Proff Robert hunkins, Journal of Modern Sociology, V970, P23, 2000) Secondly, the list you have forwarded seems to be mixed as you appear to be unable to categorise sociology,. Sociology doesnt only encompass the study of current issues as you have said. On the contrary, you have omitted religion from your list. Is this a deliberate attempt on your part to avoid the plain truth, calculated to bring about, such words like "bubble" from your intellect? Anyway.
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| | Monday, February 05, 2001 - 11:33 am Idil I have forgotten the link,,,though the course is cheap, i believe it will help you and give you a good ground. The tuition fees are low, try it out,, I have never seen anyone denying the interaction of sociology and religion,. To me it seemed unorthodox, specially when you said that your bacground is in this field. Save yourself and dont show it to your proffessor. He will be shocked to learn that his students are dumps ,,no offence meant though.. Anyway here is a place to start if you..... http://home.moravian.edu/public/soc/so265.htm
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| | Monday, February 05, 2001 - 11:37 am I'VE GOT TO HAND IT TO YOU SIS......YOU ARE THE BEST......YOU ANSWERD HIM......AND NOW HE CAN'T SAY THAT YOU DIDN'T ANSWER HIM.........JHONNY QUESTIONS SHOULD BE ANSWERED LIKE THAT......SO NEXT TIME WHEN THE SIS OR THE BRO ASKS YOU QUESTIONS ANSWER IT LIKE THAT.......REMEMBER THAT....THEY STAND FOR WHAT THEY BELIVE IN.......BUT I GUESS YOU DON'T???????....... AS SIS EDIL SAID.....NOW YOU ARE FOCUSING ON PERSONAL ATACK....I REALLY PITTY YOU.......CUSE....YOUR OWN WORDS ARE TRAPING YOU.....YOU SAID : I can see the brain washingness in the attitude in muslim sisters especially - when they get kick in the a55 the tell you "... it wasnt in my a55 it was my shoulders and islam allows for that to happen, etc etc ..." Yeah right! wake up and smell the coffee. I REALLY FEEL SORRY FOR YOU.....DO NOT INSULT THE MUSLIM WOMAN...DO NOT THINK THAT HER FAITH IS MAKING HER INFERIOR THE MAN......DO NOT EVEN GO THERE CUSE....IF YOU WHANT THE TRUTH I'LL TELL YOU IT......AND THE TRUTH IS......WHEN ADAM AND EVE SINNED ALLAH SUBXANAA WATWALLA.....FORGAVE THEM...AND HE DIDN'T BLAME EVE....NOT AT ALL.......ADAM WAS THE ONE GOD WAS HARSHER ON......BUT YOUR RELIGION.....BLAMES EVE.....AND YOUR RELIGION DOOMED EVE.....READ THIS......AND YOU'LL GET MY POINT : "Unto the woman He said: I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children, and thy desire shall be to thy husband and he shall rule over thee" (Genesis 3:16) In the Quranic version the devil tempted both Adam and Eve, they both sinned, they both repented, they both were forgiven, and that was the end of the original sin SO I SUGGEST TO YOU JHONNY.....BE SURE THAT YOU HAVE YOUR FACTS.STRAIGHT......IF A RELIGION IS HOLDING THE WOMAN DOWN....THEN THAT REALIGION IS CHRISTIANITY.....NOT ISLAM.....ISLAM GAVE THE WOMAN HER LIBERATION.....1400 YEARS AGO.....SO JHONNY DO NOT EMBARESS YOUR SELF EVEN WORSE....DON'T DO THAT............... JHONNY AS I SAID EARLIER I RATHER BE BRAIN WASHED BY ARABS WHO IS TRU MUSLIMS......THEN WESTERN FOOLS......WHO RECENTLY BECAME INLIGHTED IN SCIENCE,PHILOSOPHI, ETC........THIS WESETERN PEOPLE YOU AND DIIRSHE SEEMS TO BE FOUND OF.....IS PEOPLE WHO WENT TO THE ARAB COUNTRY SO STUDY......PEOPLE WHO ASKED THE ARABS TO HELP THEM.........SO TELL ME DIIRSHE AND JHONNY......DO YOU RATHER PRFERE FAKE ONES OR THE REAL ONES.......CUSE THIS WESTERN PEOPLE ARE FAKE.......THEY COPIED THE ARABS......THE INLIGHTEND ARABS........ DIIRSHE DO NOT INSULT ME..CUSE I HAVEN'T INSLUTED YOU MORE THAN WHAT'S NECESSARY.... .....I KNOW WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT DIIRSHE...YOU DON'T LETS KEEP IT THAT WAY........ BURHAAN BROTHER YOU ARE RIGHT.......BUT I HAVE TO TELL YOU THAT.....I DON'T NEED TO FORCE MY FAITH ON SOMONE.......I DON'T HAVE THE POWER TO DO THAT......IF YOU HAVE READ MY POSTINGS THEN YOU'LL SEE THAT I....ONLY TRIED TO BE NEAUTRAL....AND AT THE SAME TIME TRY TO STAND ON MY POINT.....I MEAN.....I WROTE ABOUT WHAT I BELIVED IN AND THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT..RIGHT?.....AND JHONNY DID THE SAME.....WE DEBATED IN A NORMAIL WAY.......BUT NOW THE DEBATE HAS CHANGED DIRECTION.....NOW IT'S VECOMING MORE OFFENSIVE AND EVERY BODY SEEMS TO BE ON EACH OTHERS BACK.......AND THAT IS WHAT'S INOYING ME......WE HAVE A GOOD DEBATE LET'S KEEP IT THAT WAY....WE DON'T NEED ANY UNNECESSARY COMMENT'S.....HONESTLY WE DON'T.....SHARE YOUR FAITH WITH US AND WE SHARE OURS WITH YOU IT'S AS SIMPLE AS THAT.............. AND BROTHER KAMAL......I HOPE THAT YOU WON'T BE OFFENDED BY WHAT I'M TRAYING TO SAY YOU NOW .....BRO I SEE THAT YOU HAVE YOUR DIIN STRAIGHT........BUT BRO CAN YOU JUST KEEP IT COOL.....IT SEEMS TO ME THAT YOU ARE TAKING SOME COMMENTS VERY PERSONALY DON'T DO THAT....... I HAVE TO GO NOW SO SEE YOU AND WISDOM KEEP DOING WHAT YOU DO BRO
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| | Monday, February 05, 2001 - 12:04 pm To: SO CALLED professor. How do you explain this? Your own words "How you came to such nonsense conclusion is a matter I don’t wish to pursue any further. The tragedy however is that there are individuals around here like you who are so impulsive and ready to jump to the wrong conclusion without digging deeper and familiarizing themselves with the issues. It is no surprising then to see another stupid, dead Somali mentality depicted here, seeking the mere pleasure of criticism without base." and then you went on to say "Furthermore, and I am laughumg at this, you babble and suggest that by-standers gain always in a conflict. I can't believ you have the heart to say such a generalization in public. " Didn’t you when you said "STUPID, DEAD SOMALI MENTALITY". I guess you still have a lot of lerning to do in SOCIOLOGY. Short and concise, Idil is right and you buddy are DEAD wrong. Take your bragging to somewhere else where people are willing to listen, WE SIMPLY DON'T GIVE A DAMP TO YOUR SOCIOLOGY STAFF. FUTHERMORE, IT IS P R O F E S S O R NOT proffessor
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| | Monday, February 05, 2001 - 01:12 pm Thankyou issa ... took the words out of my mouth. Jamiila walaalo love you even more cos you pointed out the obvious in my tone and attack strategy...  . I am just a hot blooded brother and if this was real life i would probably kill them all and then ask the questions after only to end up in hellfire... May allah[swt] forgive us all for i accept my imperfection... Please don't think i in anyway accept or support these attackers.... but it has only been a year since the begining of my acceptance of islam... i was like others around just muslim by name... so i know there is nothing that can be siad to them to change their mind. Attempts to help them will only drive them away further because they have been breast fed by CNN and the BBC and the television stations that are run by christians and jews... There is no hope for any who tries to offer them any usefull advice... I leave these matter to illahey isagaa weyn oo waaxida may he touch their hearts inshallah and teach them the truth........ i have just contributed to a classical abroach which is what the SALAFI would do... teach by the methods of the asahaba who when as far as to cut off the heads of dis-believers..BROTHERS FORGIVE ME for my hard handedness it was unfair of me to take the depate personal.I'll pray that allah[swt] your true god irrespective of what name you know him by will send you the inspiration that you seek..... It is not all doom and gloom 2years ago i would never have thought i would be defending Islam for i used to think it belonged to the arabs and i hated them for it, blamed them for all the wrongs that are happening in our country..... Was i ignorant and ill informed!... It is worth the patience that the sisters have shown these people who insult their very essence for existance... if only they keep them coming back again and again and agian to recieve words of wisdom he who listens learns, he who learn will go forth and share what he has learned... it is a brave assumption but i pray the sister are fruitfull in their efforts and do get through to them... my methods are out dated and only will serve to agitate them and intimidate them and scare them away... so inshallah i pray allah accepts my silence as contrubution to their education..... brasho wanaagsan all my love goes out to you all Salamu calaykum
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| | Monday, February 05, 2001 - 01:30 pm hahahahahah hey professor wannabe no one asked you to cut and paste bullshit here. so take that sh*t somewhere else. and let the ppl have their discussion and by the way use the spell check next time if u wanna look like a professor. ignorant ass can't even spell what he is claiming to be
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| | Monday, February 05, 2001 - 02:04 pm I suspect this Johnyjake is not Somali but a Christian misionary who is trying to win your hearts and lead you into astry. Therefore, my bro/sis in faith be aware and ignore him unless he wants to learn Islam rather than make some biggotery comments against Our religoin. most of you responded him well and I appluad to you all. To Jake let me ask you, If we to believe like most Christains do that Jesus died for our sins,and only those who beleive and ask Jesus for salvation, will be saved from hell. Well.. What about the people who lived before Jesus? Did they too ask Jesus for salvation? We Muslims believe that every soul wil tast what it earned while in this life even if it is an atoms weight.I want to say more but I chose not to since these messages previously posted by my bro and sister fell on deaf ears. why should I wast my time. Jake you are really on the wrong path and May Allah subhaana watacaala have mercy on u. Another thing if you are somali Car afsoomali ku hadal? Let us read u in somali
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| | Monday, February 05, 2001 - 02:43 pm Issa, Kamal,Shaolin Temple Thanks for the hand. Professor First, I don't use the word "dumb" to express my point of view as it is the language of the "ignorant," couldn't you find any other word in the dictionary, PROFESSOR? O.K., so the Sociology of religion exists but let me tell you why it is not important in this discussion: Sociology of Religion: explores the implications of social thought by religion by examination of key works such as Marx, Weber, and Durkheim TOGETHER with the WORKS of RELIGIOUS THINKERS. Studying the local religious communities provides a window into fundamental questions of the nature of religious institutions and how they have been affected by SOCIAL CHANGES such as increasing individualism and egalitarianism of the society. LOCAL RELIGIOUS CULTURES ARE KEY to understanding group process. EXAMINE throughly on what I just wrote.The Sociology of Religion looks at how religious institutions have been affected by SOCIAL CHANGES. Like I said before, sociology focuses deeply into "the roots of society's problems" AGAIN, Sociology has nothing to do with our "DEBATE" P.S. you said; "you appear to be unable to categorise sociology," Let me tell you, they are not all in the same list of categories, every institution has its own list. You should have figure it out without my help.
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| | Monday, February 05, 2001 - 02:43 pm STUPID ASS, START READING THE QU'RAN. DON'T YOU HAVE OR HAD PARENTS AND IF YOU DID HAVE PARENTS WHY DIDN'T THEY DO THEIR JOB TO TEACH YOU THE QURAN???????? WHAT ARE YOU YAHUUD??
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| | Monday, February 05, 2001 - 06:59 pm Everyone is very jealous of professor. heis de best walaahi,,of all those who are against him,look back upon yourself. he is the most respectable person and i really enjoyed the way the discussion between idil and professor developed. Isa is another dog who just shows how jealous he is, brother do your best, i know you cant compete with the professor. Even idil though sometimes annoying seems to be coming down to the issues, She earlier rejected the view by proffessor that sociology encompasses many aspects of our lives including religion, yet she came back and admits that in fact it exists but offers another dimenssion which i totally disagree. Issa please stop the nonsenses and act with clear conscience, As to idil since you have been having thhis discussion with professor, i guess you should admit and accept when you are corrected. That is the whole point of discussion and debate.. persistence and denial arent good,,, Hey proffessor, walalo, keep up the good work, you are really an outstanding boy,, I wish ye da best
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| | Monday, February 05, 2001 - 07:18 pm Proffesor All i can say is ,,please dont engage anymore discusion with these people since they fail to accept their errors. Secondly issa,,,since i am new member here like you , i am asking myself where the hell do you fit in? you are low bro,,go and leave the room in peace,,you cant put two perfect beatiful statements like the proffessor,,.. Idil,,i am flabergusted by your ignorance and stupidity, being a social svcience student myself, i cant figure out you are in a university let alone a sociology student..walaahi, i mean it,,and i mean no offence ,, Sorry by saying dat, but it is all in your writing girl,,stop it,,i was in ma library yesterday when ma group of student came in to the net doing a little research ,,then i tried to check here just to see interesting posting,,but when i saw what you have written ,,really the fellaz with me couldnt help laughing at your sinister views,,you are condemned to oblivion for real,,. As to professor again,,why dont you join us since we seem to share a lot,,really,,after all, you have changed my views towards somali men,, what do you think if we establish ,,you know a private discussion between us? let me know your response to this,,and dont even bother to respond to both idil--the stubborn and issa--the fool...they broke the rules,,and the gravest of all is from idil,, have u failed in high school and couldnt realise your dreams of studying sociology,,anyway,,you tried but at the end failed by suggesting that religion and sociology have nothing in common,,yet now,,in your last posting you accept with no remorse, and furthermore you come in and post another message justifying your insistence.. what a ignorant you are!!! istarliin,,you are right and i totally agree with ye,, if we go back and check what proffessor posted ,,one surely is gonna find a consistent plausible logical and flowing continuum of statements that are too reasonable and within the confines of intellectual discusion.. hope to hear from ye too.. istarliin ye are as well invited,,and let me know what ye think..
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| | Monday, February 05, 2001 - 07:28 pm istarliin=professor istarliin-professor proof number 1: professor puts multiple commas after a sentence. so did istarliin. look at his first and last sentence. he tried to disguise put he couldn't. proof number 2: look at how professor spells Edil. he spells it Idil and look and so does istarliin. professor i feel sorry for you. no one was on your side to you started to back up yourself in disguise. we feel sorry for you. and i know it hurts when you do that. hey ppl don't be hard on this fool. i gotta an advise for you professor: don't be arguing with edil, she is too smart.
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| | Monday, February 05, 2001 - 07:37 pm amiino=professor the same proof as above applies here too. damn the guy is quick. when i was replying to professor's first disguise (istarliin) he came in and posted another message in disguise(amiino). i only saw the second one after i posted my first message. professor is caught red handed and there is nothing he can say about it. why you insulting our intelligence by posting under different names. edil: take it easy on him. see what you forced him to do.
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| | Tuesday, February 06, 2001 - 04:52 am Professor and Edil, When did you two get married? None of us were invited to your wedding. Man I swear you 2 act like an old married couple! Please, lets spend our time on more constructive issues instead of this intellectual masterbation! Will you 2 stop it! Damn kiss and make up or something @"|"@ ` V
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| | Tuesday, February 06, 2001 - 05:54 am johnnyjake: what do u have to say about the answers to your questions...you thought that you were asking some hard questions but instead they were very easy... don't worry about edil and professor...it is just an argument between a dumb person and a clever person...it is so one sided... edil: thanks for helping me out with the verses from quran...i don't why i am answering this guy's questions...i don't even have the time...but i felt like i was representing muslims...if i didn't answer him he would feel strong about what he is in...but i proved and some of the other ppl in here proved him wrong so many times...and he can't accept the fact that his religion and its scriptures are made up by ppl... johnnyjake: i have answered you enough so did the ppl in here...what is a debate when no one is gaining from it...i don't know about these ppl but i am out of this discussion...i just don't have the time...
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| | Tuesday, February 06, 2001 - 01:21 pm PROFESSOR(Starliin,Aamino) I have nothing further to say to you, seeing of how I already touched a nerve. Shaolin Temple Thanks a lot, that's excatly what I was thinking. JohnnyJake Let's wrap up this discussion. Make your conlclusion, I can see you are going off the Topic, probably beacuse you have nothing further to argue about. Just like Wisdom, I have no time, so If you come up with more clever questions, I' ll be more than happy to answer them.
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| | Tuesday, February 06, 2001 - 03:35 pm Edil and Wisdom, Thanks so much for providing me with answers to my questions. The answers that you provided proves once and for all that there is a big gulf between beleive systems. In fact we have different God(s) altogether. Your religious book (Quran) goes against what MY God has given us as a 'Golden Rule' to follow. And you prove the existence of your gods decision with science (science proves it's ok to eat camel) - hmmmmmm! So you muslims can eat rats and dogs and other dispecable animals as long as it is not pig? MY GOD gave us a fail-safe rule to follow and how to determine which animal is clean or unclean. Not so with islam? If it chews the cud like a cow and have feet like a cow or sheep it is clean. Both the camel and pig have clean and unclean traits, as follows: the pig has feet like a sheep but doesnt chew the cud. The camel chews the cud but doesnt have feet like the sheep or cow - both animals are unclean. This is what GOD HIMSELF commanded - this hasnt be misrepresented as alot of you muslims like to think. It's a Golden Rule to follow for all mankind. But the Quran negates this rule and says that God doesnt know what HE is talking about - it allows the eating of an unclean animal - the camel. Think on that and ask yourself the question: DO I BELEIVE WHAT GOD COMMANDED or what is written in the Quran? Therein your own answer will lie your own salvation! If we looked at how your Quran contradicts what my God gives us as commandments you would think it to be the book of Satan. Just look at some of the things that MY GOD commands us to do and not to do and you will see what I am talking about: ~ dont eat animals that dont chew the cud and have feet like a cow or sheep (cloven hoofs) The camel chews the cud but doesnt have the feet like the sheep. This is unclean by God. God comamanded this with HIS 'Golden Rule of Diet' But your Quran says it is clean to eat any animal except the pig and carnivous animals. ~ Dont repeat your prayers like the heathens who thinks with much repetition that their prayers will be heard - this is commanded by God Himself! Muslims repeat their prayers all the time. ~ Dont make your prayers in the open in view of others but pray in your closets so that others will not think you are boasting because they see you pray all the time. Muslims pray in the open as a group. ~ We are allowed to drink wine and strong drink but the Quran speaks against it. There are many other things that the Quran goes against what the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob has commanded. Edil - You talk about Mohammed being a prophet of God and that is going against what God Himself has said ...out of all the families of the earth, Israel have I know .... and ...with Israel are the Oracles of God...Israel has been the priests and prophets throughout history. Now if your prophet is not an Israelite as many claim that he isnt then how can he be a prophet of the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob????? Edil you pasted an article that stated that your prophet is written in the bible 'a prophet after Moses' but that article is a lie. As you know it states that the prophet would be among the brothern of the Israelites and not the Ishmaelites. God never even recognized Ishmael as Abrahams son at all! The blessings of God went to Issac instead of Ishmael the first born. There are so many differences in both doctrines to say that one is part of the other because it's not. Different Gods altogether! But you can beleive in what you want, since you dont have a choice in the matter, because you can be killed if you change from islam to a different religion -so what choice that is? There can only be ONE TRUTH and God will reveal HIS TRUTH in good time. But a hint of what will happen to your religion and the language of your religion: it is written that God Himself said that HE will destroy the tongue (language) of the Egpptian Sea (arabic)> So much for the Quran and the arabic language. Peace and Truth in Jesus' Holy Name
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| | Tuesday, February 06, 2001 - 07:44 pm if christianity allows to drinking whine than it also allows drinking and driving... your religion has legalized drinking and eating pigs and now you are talking about camels... we can have an endless debate but you are not going to gain anything from it until God wills...you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink... the israelites during Mohammed(saw) knew that there was going to come a prophet(the last)...and the description of the land where that prophet was going to come from was in their scriptures...so many israelites moved to madina years before the birth of Mohammed(saw) hoping that the last prophet would be born among them...but it didn't happen that way...after all Allah chooses whom He wills to be his messenger... forget about eating pigs touching them is haram... just look at these facts: the quran is the most authentic book in the whole world...it hasn't been altered since the day it was revealed. the quran was revealed 1400+ years ago it talks about human embroyology it talks about how salt water and fresh water don't mix it talks about how under the oceans it is very dark dark at the bottom.('bottom' means where submarines can't go) and so many other things...and the sad part is that scientists are discovering these facts in the quran day by day...what do u have to say about that? did Mohammed have a telescope or a microscope or did he study the salinity or the salt content of water...how did he know all these... Science agrees to what is the quran day after day whereas christianity and science are opposite...christians in europe killed most of the philosophers that said the earth revolves and it is not the center of the universe...they thought that they were going against christianity...the quran says that the earth revolves...what do u have to say about that?... lets not even compare the bible and the quran...i meant to say bibles...there is no single contradiction in the quran...whereas the bible is the book of contradictions... in one of my previous messages i told about the authors of the bible...mathew, mark, luke and john how they wrote bibles and they didn't even see jesus...and st. paul how he killed christians and then said he had a dream one night and wrote 15 books which were added to christianity without hesitation...johnnyjake that is what your faith is built upon...what do u have to say about that? and the god you are calling god is contradicting himself too... here is my argument: your lord said in the one of the ten commandments "You shall have no other gods but me" now where does jesus come in the picture...what do u have to say about that? we do believe that Allah has revealed scriptures to other prophets including jesus and moses...but in those scriptures Allah did not guarantee that He will protect them (from alteration) but in the quran Allah promised what he did not promise in other scriptures that is He will guard this book from any alteration... johnnyjake, i challenge you to find in anyone of the 33,000 versions of the bible where your god says that he will protect it...i know you won't find it...do u know why? the answer is: there wouldn't have been so many versions if Allah promised to protect them... everyone has his own bible. even george washington had his own bible. i have never seen anyone so proud of christianity like you...maybe it is because it is new to new...christianity is full of contradictions...it even teaches ppl to drink and drink strong... hahahahahha oh yeah i forgot something else; you talked about ppl getting killed if they left islam...that is true...and it is for the protection of the religion...just look at you, you are looking for every way to humiliate islam and muslims but you have nothing to say...ppl like you would have said "i am muslim" without any intention and say after a week "i am out", and spread wrong rumors about the religion...just like what you said in one of you previous messages, you said that you have analyzed the quran and the bible and the torah and you choose what you thought was right...which is a very big lie...every one can see that you have no knowledge whatso ever...and what if ppl like you were given the chance to come into Islam and go out whenever you wanted...and the fact is that no muslim in his right mind ever last islam...99.99% of muslims never leave islam...there was a documentary about that...whereas in christianity ppl are leaving every day and becoming muslims.why?...because they found out the truth and Allah wished to guide them and save them them from his severe punishment... i gotta good advice for u: search for knowledge don't blindfollow anything...and don't let your pride over take you...when you find out that you were wrong, accept it and repent to Allah...
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| | Wednesday, February 07, 2001 - 04:17 am Lol, My dear brother Wisdom the fact of the matter is you can't explain why the Quran contradicts what God said HIMSELF and gave it to mankind to live by. That is the dietary laws. True there are many so-called Christians who eat pork and other abominable things - and they are wrong and they know it but they never once changed it in any of the bibles to contradict what GOD Himself has written. The book of Revelations tells what is going to happen to those Christians who will follow the Beast and the False prophet. But they were wise enough to not supercede what God Himself has given mankind. The Quran does supercede what God Himself has given mankind because it is written in your religious book that you can eat camel. Things that you said that are in the Quran that scientists are finding is true. Well that can be explained very easily because most of the scientif discoveries have been found in Egpytian old writtings. And when Islam invaded Egypt it stole from those people and destroyed their culture. Why is it that when the Muslim invaders came into a country that they always destroyed and burned all the books? Then they brag about the Quran being the only book that wasnt changed but that is a lie. As I told you before, in Ethiopia there are original bibles that were never changed and the Falasha Jews in Ethiopia have their Torah that has never been tampered with. So your Quran didnt know about those books in Africa otherwised those muslims would have destroyed them. When you say that God uses who HE will that is not true. God uses Israelites to spread HIS WORD. Your Quran is wrong! Allah is a different God from the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob! God never changes nor contradicts HIMSELF and for your Quran to proport to be a holy book and Contradict GOD what kind of holy book is that?????? As you said these discussions will not go anywhere but one thing I have to say is: At least I have the freedom of choice to choose my salvation but Muslims dont!!!!! YOU CHANGE - YOU DIE!!!!! What kind of religion is that. Even if you did find the truth of God's Word you couldnt change without death - who in their right mind would want to join a gang like that. It sounds like joining the Mofia or some other type of gang where you are in it until death!!! peace and blessings in Jesus' Holy Name!!!
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| | Wednesday, February 07, 2001 - 05:55 am that is why i said "this argument is going no where" you are not answering my questions...you are talking nonsense... like i said before: in one of the ten commandments revealed to moses it said"you shall have no other gods but me"... where does jesus come in? i have given the reason why anyone who lives islam will be killed but you still talk like i haven't given you the reason...read my last message... and you make me laugh...it might look like a debate to you but you make me laugh... you said: "The Quran does supercede what God Himself has given mankind because it is written in your religious book that you can eat camel." how do u judge when someone is contradicting himself...you bring forth two statements that contradict itself...so bring two verses from the quran that contradict each other about camel meat... i have proven to you the authenticity of the quran and the how the bible contradicts itself but you still talk like we just starting our debate... how do you that what is in the bible is God's word and if it is which bible is right...all bibles have authors... and i see that you have agreed to the science proving the quran right... u said "Things that you said that are in the Quran that scientists are finding is true. Well that can be explained very easily because most of the scientif discoveries have been found in Egpytian old writtings. And when Islam invaded Egypt it stole from those people and destroyed their culture." so you are saying that those egyptians know better than the scientists now with all their high tech instruments...that is very wrong...there was no way they could have known all that... and my other argument: lets say that the egyptians were very clever ppl just for argument sake...when did muslims invade egypt...it was many years after Mohammed's(saw) death...and the quran was revealed during the life of the prophet...so that proves everything you said wrong... and if what you are saying is right there would have been so many different versions of the quran just like the bible... the reason why science is proving the quran right is because the quran has been revealed by Allah, the creator of the universe and the all knowing... that proves the authenticity of the quran... i have proven every thing you said wrong and whenever i ask you a question you never answer it...how come? johnnyjake go back to my last message and answer my questions...and believe me if you change the topic without answering my questions i am out of this discussions... you don't know what you are talking about... how do you know the right message of God? do you think it is in the bible? if it so in which bible? george washington's or abraham lincoln's? and how can your god come to earth as a man?did jesus tell ppl to worship him? and if he did so he came up with a new religion than that of moses. moses taught ppl that there is one God... and if jesus said that he is god than they were carrying different messages from different gods... you can't say it was the same god because the messge is not the same. what do have to say about that?
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| | Wednesday, February 07, 2001 - 06:02 am now which god is contradicting himself... forget about camel meat and pork and whine...lets talk about the message itself... looking forward to your answers
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| | Wednesday, February 07, 2001 - 06:17 am ooooooh my Allah where should I begin? Sorry but I haven't read everything, so forgive me if I repeat asking something you've already answered. Let start with- I'M A MUSLIM AND I'M VERY HAPPY 2B 1!!! I believe in 1 God. But 1 thing I don't understand is how God (in Christianity) can B God, The Holy Spirit and Jesus (or something like that I'm not quite sure please tell me how ppl in Christianity believe in God) I'll tell you what I know and believe in (some of it coz I'm rather busy @ da moment) Allah has in the Holy Quran tought US that we shouldn't drink alcoholic drinks by this Allah means (from my knowledge) that we shouldn't drink anything which can contribute or cause or brain or mind to think in different way or behave/act weird, i.e. when you drink some alcoholic drinks you get drunk, right? I (We) as a Muslim(s) am not allowed getting drunk because it enables me from worshipping Allah in form of prostrating properly and also it would make it hard for someone to receite the Quran correctly! Walaal Islam doesn't teach that you have to kill someone if they leave Islam coz practically 80% of all Muslims (Somalis) would be killed because they don't practize Islam as they ought to! If someone leave Islam it is said they deserve to be killed because the life they would lead would be pointless and worthless, but it's not an action which should be carried out, anyway it's not faral (not qasab) basically isn't not a rule we HAVE to follow! Brother as a Muslim I believe in all three books of Allah or God whichever way you like it! 1st book: The Torah 2nd book: The Gospel 3rd and last book: The Quran So I believe in all three books, but I follow the last book! I believe in all of Gods Prophets unlike Christians and Jews! Christians following the first testament the one revealed by God knew that Jesus wasn't a God and even Jesus himself said don't pray to me but pray to your Lord! they also knew that The Last Prophet (SCW) (Peace be upon him would one day come! What about the Jews they don't even believe in Jesus yet alone Muhammed, but they all knew he was coming and till this day they still beleive he will! But tell me please which Gospel (Bible) are you following? walaal if a religion is a real and correct 1 then howcome people can have the authority to change it whenever it suits them? I'm sure you've never come across another version of Quran coz it simply doesn't exists, and I'm positive you'll never come across one either! Walaal I would really love to learn more about Christianity so please if you don't mind would you teach me what you know, but walaal I'm not learning Christianity in order to become one, but in order to be more aware and hopefully become a stronger Muslim. Oh I can't believe I'm still here I really gotta go but Insha Allah I'll be back take care everybody 'till next time. Salaams everybody Muslim or not! I've got love for you all.
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| | Wednesday, February 07, 2001 - 10:27 am Bro Wisdom: Your question: "in one of the ten commandments revealed to moses it said"you shall have no other gods but me"... where does jesus come in? " Well as I said before in my earier postings before The Lamb of God was called Jesus, HE was Melchizedek-Priest of the Most High God, 'I AM' during the time of Moses, YHVH (Jehovah) etc. So when The Lamb of God spoke those Words HE was speaking in behave of the MOST HIGH GOD who sent HIM. Wisdom have you heard of AL Kemit or AlChemy or blackmagic or modern science well all of that was done thousands of years ago in ancient Egpyt. PreMuslims Arabs were in Egypt living under Roman rule for hundreds of years. In fact the Muslims helped the Egpytians kick the Romans out of Egypt and then after the Muslims betrayed the Egyptians and took over the country and burned all their ancient books. Muslims did the same in Persia too. So Wisdom if you think just because you scream the loudest that you are correct? Lol your whole concept of Allah superceding what the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob is laughable. In fact how does one beleive that an illiterate man could remember the Torah and Injel well enough to recite it all to ghost writers. It is like this Wisdom - either Mohammed was an Israelite or he wasnt a prophet of God! God has only deal with Israelites. It is so easy to say that this book or that book is false - any one can say that.But God HIMSELF has given us commandments and if your Quran goes against what GOD has said then I will go with what God said and you can burn with your Quran. End of story!!!!
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| | Wednesday, February 07, 2001 - 10:39 am you haven't answered my question...you just typed nonsense that is it end of discussion... there is no point having discussion with an ignorant person...u keep dodging my questions all the time...you are denying facts...end of discussion... peace out
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| | Wednesday, February 07, 2001 - 11:09 am ExDane, I think as a prerequisite before discussing here that you would read the earier posts - it will give you some history into the vain of our discussions. I think it is great that you are taking the intiative to educate yourself on all the books. Many Muslims regard reading the Torah and Injel a waste of time because they say its been tampered with but there is truth in them if one has an open mind and allow his/her heart to let God's light to shine in. Peace and blessings in Jesus' Holy name
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| | Wednesday, February 07, 2001 - 11:13 am Fine! If my answers are none sense to you then thats all I got to write. Your choice! Your are running pretty quickly - especially from my questions that I posted. YOu always want me to answer your question but you never answer mine. So Run-Muslim-Run!
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| | Wednesday, February 07, 2001 - 12:03 pm I am wondering and asking myself whether i was really talking to an intellectual person..but then she turns out to be that which i was asserting: an ignorant, idiot who understands nothing,,Idil,,go cut and paste that is your work,,,u concur with idiots and share with them da same mentality,,idiot,,i am telling ye,,ye are .. As to Aamono,thx and soon will contact ye,,never thought there are the likes of you out there,,istarlin thx,,too,,you are understanding,,, I have wasted my time with an idiot for reall,,no doubt about it,, good luck to you idil ,,you have a long way to go,,,damn ye,,why did u hide yourself? why didnt u tell me that u are a fool,,? like shaolintemple,,lol? Shaolintemple,,,,,u are realllllll fool,,insane who utters the most dispicable words,,, false accusations,,that was what i was expecting,,.. Tuug intaaan tuug la dhihin buu tuug ku dhahaa,,somali maah maah weeye,,, Idil,perhaps it was you ,,Shaolintemple,,i guess,,weak,,you are weak,,shame on ye,,everyone sees ye ,,but out of respect for a female,,keep your dirty work rolling,,lol,,, I am laughing at my stupidity for all this time i was chatting with a person with multiple personality disorder,,,damn me,,Johnyjake why id you tell me? for you are good at analysing these idiots?
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| | Wednesday, February 07, 2001 - 03:12 pm PROFFESSOR - The School of logical thought is out and all the dumbies have either flunk, dropped out or were kicked out for being a potato head! I can't stop laughing at the so called twisted logic used in these discussions. It's like a group of people singing the same song all the time over and over again and again. It is a mental illness I think that poses as a religion. Free thought is the real sin! Thinking logically is a real abomination! Think as the group and sing the same song and you will be a good muslim - whether the song makes sense or not. I can't image the techniques used to keep people in the fold of islam. The threats, intimidations and the fear of being killed if you decide that islam is not your cup of tea. It smacks of a Mofia Mob Family - once in you can never leave alive. Wisdom - your nick should be the opposite! You are like a tape recorder - only repeating what someone has told you and never experiencing on your own. I posed very direct questions to you that were clearly stated. Your refusual to answer my questions is a sign that the Quran is flawed and there is nothing you or any other muslim can do about it. The Quran is like a legal document that is flawed and God will judge it and those who follow it blindly; especially, when the truth has been pointed out to you. You could see for yourself that the Quran is flawed but no one has ever pointed this out to you before. So now Wisdom the choice is yours. To follow the truth or stick with the flawed Quran. As I asked you the question before Wisdom, after hearing the truth and the flaws of the Quran: WHO DO YOU BELEIVE, WHAT GOD HAS SAID HIMSELF OR WHAT IS WRITTEN IN THE QURAN??????!!!!!!! Your salvation depends on your correct answer!!! Peace and Blessings in the Holy Name of Jesus
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| | Wednesday, February 07, 2001 - 07:35 pm JOHNJAKY This is fact which you cannot deny, few weeks ago it was headline of some newspaper in U.S.A. Only 9000 Muslims are American army but 35 000 prisoner convert to Islam every year. Islam is fast spreading religion in the world. Not only that where mosque are becoming busy churches are becoming more empty. Indeed it will be new version of bible very soon it the European union decided already. They still think there is some part which is against the woman. First we do not eat rats and dogs and not music at all in the mosque just to inform you.. Secondly even I read most of your comments still I do not understand basic foundation of your religion. The Hindu has many Goods and Jews has one Good. So you guys believe two Goods! So profit Issa must to be one of them how a human can be GOOD? By the way most of the orthodox Ethiopian and Eritrian do not eat pork! Can we call another contradiction? Give time and read Islam. Go to any mosque and ask information about Islam. I pray Allah to save you.
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| | Thursday, February 08, 2001 - 04:20 am Ahmed, Peace and blessings in the Holy Name of Jesus! Welcome to the discussion and I will try to answer all your questions based on facts. First of all I dont know what kind of background you have - if you are familiar with the Torah and the Injel or if you only repeat stuff that you heard other muslims talking about. But I would recommend you read the Torah and Injel which are written in Arabic language. Your statement of Islam is the fastest growing religion could be true. It is written in the Injel that broad is the way to damnation and destruction (many will follow falsehood) but straight and narrow is the way to truth (meaning many are called but few are chosen). For some reason Islam is attractive to criminal minded people - it is the gang like mentality that Islam has that most criminals are used to. Rule by fear and intimidation and threats of death if you decide to leave Islam. But chosing from the lesser of two evils, islam does have its appeal to those who have no religion at all but once you start getting some understanding about all three books Torah, Injel and Quran you will understand the ways of God. Then you will see with your own eyes how the Quran is flawed because it goes against what God HIMSELF has spoken. This you can reseach on your own but beleive me there are flaws in the Quran. And I ask you Ahmed, if you find flaws in the Quran that goes against what God HIMSELF has written who will you beleive? GOD who has given us commandments or the Quran that goes against what God has given mankind? This is your decision and your salvation question. Peace and blessings in Jesus
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| | Thursday, February 08, 2001 - 05:02 am Ahmed, To answer your question about the Godhead (many Gods). In the creation God has created different species of beings: animals are broken down into reptile, birds, fish, mamals etc, etc. Also with mankind and spritkind are created catagories. Mankind is made up of all the races of man and woman. Spritkind is made up of angels both Sariphim and Churub angels. Then we have what is called Elohim. Elohim is also sprit kind but it is a uniplural word like mankind. One group but more than one beings. The single name for Elohim is El. This is the grouping of the MOST High God and Melchizedek Priest of the MOST HIGH God (aka - also known as, YHVH, Jehovah, Jesus and Lamb of God) If you read both the Torah and Injel you will understand the role that Jesus plays. Not as a God to be worshipped but as a intercessor to the MOST HIGH GOD. Jesus is OUR PRIEST TO THE MOST HIGH GOD we pray through HIM to the Father. I hope my explaination is clear enough of you to understand. Peace and blessings!
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| | Thursday, February 08, 2001 - 06:39 am ATTENTION ALL!!!!!! This is a challenge to any and all Islamic scholars to answer the following questions about the Quran: Both the camel and pig have clean and unclean traits, as follows: the pig has feet like a sheep but doesnt chew the cud. The camel chews the cud but doesnt have feet like the sheep or cow - both animals are unclean. This is what GOD HIMSELF commanded - this hasnt be misrepresented as alot of muslims like to think. It's a Golden Rule to follow for all mankind. But the Quran negates this rule - it allows the eating of an unclean animal - LIKE the camel. Think on that and ask yourself the question: DO I BELEIVE WHAT GOD COMMANDED or what is written in the Quran? Just look at some of the things that GOD commands us to do and not to do and you will see what I am talking about: ~ dont eat animals that dont chew the cud and have feet like a cow or sheep (cloven hoofs) The camel chews the cud but doesnt have the feet like the sheep. This is unclean by God. God comamanded this with HIS 'Golden Rule of Diet' Quran says it is clean to eat any animal except the pig and carnivous animals. ~ Dont repeat your prayers like the heathens who thinks with much repetition that their prayers will be heard - this is commanded by God Himself! Muslims repeat their prayers all the time. ~ Dont make your prayers in the open in view of others but pray in your closets so that others will not think you are boasting because they see you pray all the time. Muslims pray in the open as a group. ~ We are allowed to drink wine and strong drink but the Quran speaks against it. There are many other things that the Quran goes against what the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob has commanded. Many of you talk about Mohammed being a prophet of God and that is going against what God Himself has said ...out of all the families of the earth, Israel have I know .... AND ...with Israel are the Oracles of God...Israel has been the priests and prophets throughout history. Now if Mohammed the Muslim prophet is not an Israelite as many claim that he isnt then how can he be a prophet of the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob????? Would someone answer these questions and I will be satisfied. peace and blessings
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| | Thursday, February 08, 2001 - 07:49 am Prophet Abraham is the father of the jews and arabs in other words all the semites.....Prophet Mohammed PBUH ancestry traces back to Ibrahim. I hope that clear things.... and for your information somalia is one of muslim nation that had churches where people could practice their faith and there are even non-somalis who lived in the country peacefully
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| | Thursday, February 08, 2001 - 07:52 am correction..."there are non-muslim somalis that lived in somalia"
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| | Thursday, February 08, 2001 - 09:27 am ppl i am telling stop talking to this fool...hye doesn't even know what he is talking about...u ask him a question he won't answer it...you ppl are wasting your time with this fool...look at the messages i posted and all the questions i asked him...and look at his answers...he avoids answering questions and even if he answers them...they don't make sense... johnnyjake: i could go on and ask you questions that you can't answer like i have done before...but there is no point in doing that because you'll never answer them or you'll write nonsense thaT doesn't make sense... so ppl don't waste your time with this fool...he is talking about eating camel meat when his religion allows ppl to eat pork and drink alcohol looooooooool...... johnnyjake your arguments don't make sense...you are probably drunk when you r posting messages after all your religion allows ppl to drink alcohol... tell me what's the point of arguing with someone who is drunk?
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| | Thursday, February 08, 2001 - 09:48 am Somali-Yankee, I take it you live in the USA? As you know in the USA there is freedom or religion and speech. Now I have heard some things about islam and I want your opinion now. Is it true that if a person is born into Islam if they want to be another religion instead of Islam that he will be murdered by other muslims??????? If that is the case then islam doesnt give a person the choice and freedom that it says. Am I wrong about that? Peace and blessings
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| | Thursday, February 08, 2001 - 12:37 pm THIS PAGE IS FLOATING ON THE FORUM, THERE IS ALMOST (155) MESSAGES POSTED UNDER THIS TOPIC AND FROM TODAY ON THIS CASE IS CLOSED AND ITS ILLIGAL TO ADD ANY MESSAGE. NB;-THE OPINIONS AND FACTS PRESENTED ON THIS PAGE ARE INTENDED TO BE DIVERSE,AND REPRESENT THOSE OF THE TYPERS AND/OR CONTRIBUTORS,AND NOT EXACTLY FROM PROFFISIONAL MUSLIM SHEIKS/IMAMS. WE ARE COMMITTED TO PROVIDE U THIS INFORMATION TO ASSIST YOU IN YOUR JOURNEY TOWARD THE PEACE AND SERENITY WE ALL SEEK. THIS HAS BEEN A PUBLIC ANOUCEMENT!!!!!!!
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| | Thursday, February 08, 2001 - 12:42 pm Who is willing to see U satisfied. It is entirely up to U, I assume there is no one here to please u, but I would rather suggest my follow somalians to simply ignore ur disgusting articles based on stupidity, I found them very intimidating . Leave those respectful words ((((Islam & Muslim) a side and don't even think to mentioned it. To U all Bro/ Sisters Asalaumu calaykum Having read those articles, I am really disappointed to some of u, who have wasted their precious time to give some feedback comments to J articles. If any comments were ought to say I believe they will simply be based on negativity, rejection. I find his articles humiliating "I really do " Please, do not give an opportunity to this idiot who has been given a enormous doubt about his existence. Recently I have been designing methods and techniques to improve the standard of wadanka and relate those techniques to the future progress of our country and the pple. ** A research project based on Uk, but, here is another dilemma, mutually exclusive and indeed a problem that seems to defy a satisfactory solution which has to be though deeply. I hope there are some genius somalian pple some where on this planet, who have gathered the knowledge and have the potential to cure those transformed pple like warsame and the likes ** Xuunshada nacasoowday, waxmagaratda, caqli gaabka " Ala jecliyaa diintayda, dadkayga iyo dalkayga. Afkahooyana macaana ""
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| | Thursday, February 08, 2001 - 02:15 pm Johnny You seemed so confident at first, but look at you now. You are so desperate, you'll say anything. THAT IS THE REASON NO ONE WANTS TO CHAT WITH YOU ANYMORE. Your religion is a JOKE and you know it, so don't waste our precious time. Go back to what we wrote, you will find all your answers. If you are going to represent a company at a meeting, at least know what the company stands for. Why are you DENYING the very teachings of the BIBLE? I will be very glad to send you the Bible that teaches Mohammed's prophecies. I gave you the REFERENCES, all you have to do is go find the Bible and read it. What makes your religion a JOKE? 1) The very teachings of it has been changed narrator after narrator(that's why you can't find the prophecies of Mohammed(Pbuh)unless you go back to the old BIBLE) 2) If Mohammed has been prophecised, then why are you not following the religion he stands for, Islam? 3)In Islam, you simply counnot count how many times in the Qoran, Allah says "I am your lord, worship me," You cannot find a single phrase in your BIBLE of Jesus saying "I am God, worship me," Could it be because all along he was teaching his people to worship no other than ALLAH?(THINK about it) 4)You talk about eating CAMEL being prohibited. Just make me understand this, if you eat camel will your bain function at a NORMAL State? would you be sober? Could you KILL somebody because you ate CAMEL? The answer ofcouse is CLEAR, so then WHY does your RELIGION allow the consumption of ALCOHOL(HARMFUL) and then turn around and Prohibit the Eating of Camel(HARMLESS) GO back to the Old BIBLE, I am sure you will find it to be very similar to the teachings of ISLAM, before the Bilbe was CORRUPTED. DON'T BE DESPERATE. PEACE!!!!!!I am out
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| | Thursday, February 08, 2001 - 05:07 pm ATTENTION ALL: Just as I imagined the old case of RUN-MUSLIM-RUN!!!!! Run from my questions and hide under a rock! You can run from the truth but you cant hide!!!!! I gave you all facts and no one can answer those questions. In fact you recommend others not to provide input because you know that they cant!!!! Now we all see who and what is the real JOKE!!!!! My questions were asked very clearly and logically. Why do you take offense at me? I gave you truth and showed you the real flaws of your Quran. Remember I didnt write either the Torah nor the Injel so why get angry at me because I am giving you information that may give you salvation? The truth is very simple!!!! Do what God Commands us. Whats wrong with that? If I showed you verses in your Quran that contradicts what God HIMSELF has said - that show be your wakeup call to stop what you are doing and re-evaluate your wrong path! As it is written '...he/she who has an ear, listen to what the truth has to tell you ...' I know it is a scary thing to even think about changing from being a moslem - the treath of being murdered for changing religions is an intimidating factor; however, it may give you salvation if you do. So what was it that I said or asked that made you all so upset? I gave actually information from the Injel and Torah and compared it with what is written in the Quran. Is it my fault that the Quran is faulty and flawed???? I will ask this question again to all who read my postings: WHO DO YOU BELEIVE AND FOLLOW, WHAT GOD HIMSELF HAS WRITTEN OR THE QURAN THAT CONTRADICTS WHAT GOD HIMSELF HAS COMMANDED??? This should be an easy question for those who love truth and seek Gods' light! Peace and blessings in the Holy name of Jesus!
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| | Thursday, February 08, 2001 - 08:20 pm u said: "WHO DO YOU BELEIVE AND FOLLOW, WHAT GOD HIMSELF HAS WRITTEN OR THE QURAN THAT CONTRADICTS WHAT GOD HIMSELF HAS COMMANDED???" i believe that you wanted to say: would you rather believe what God himself has written or the quran that contradicts what God has commanded first of all this question doesn't make sense... before asking this question you have to prove that what God commands is in the bible and not in the quran...you are asking us this question like we agreed with you that what God commands is in the bible and not in the quran... the way you pose the question is very wrong...you are assuming that we agreed with you that the bible is God's word...if it was like that than we would have all been christians...but the fact is that we didn't agree with you that the bible is God's word infact we proved it to you that it is anything but God's word with its numerous contradictions and versions and updates... isn't that a prove enough that your question doesn't make sense... that's one of the reasons why no one wants to waste time discussing things with you... and the reason is that you don't answer the questions that you are asked...just look at the questions edil posted... did u answer them? no, you wanna dodge them... keep on dodging bullets. that's right bullets that is what these questions seem like to you...
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| | Thursday, February 08, 2001 - 09:50 pm TO WARSAME,JOHN ETC; •••• U LOSERS, WHILE U FAKE YOUR BIBLE I PROTECT MINE(THE KORAN)/RARELY DID U SEE A MUJAAHID OUT FOR JUSTICE/GOT MY GUN POWDER AND MY MUSKET..BLAOOOW!!/LIKE HITLER, STICKIN UP JEWISH WITH CHRISTIANS/MUJAHID WITH HIS SWORD, I PAINT MENTAL PICTURE LIKE (BADAR) WAR/TRYING MY BEST TO KEEP U OUT FORM HELL?/CATCH ME ON TOUR WITH USAMA BINLADIN IN DC/IRONMAN ROLL 2 TIGHT,U CAN'T TOUCH ME/BETTER BELIEVE THIS AND PASS OUT OR THAT WILL BE IT FROM THAT ASS/YOUR VITAL STATISTICS ARE LOW AND FALLIN FAST/PLAY A GAME OF (ABUU-LAHAB)AND I WILL HAVE U BLASTED/BARE WITNESS THAT ALLAH IS THE CREATOR OF ALL SIDES OF THE EQUATER/ CUZ I JIHAAD FROM AMERICA TO EUROPE, TO MEDINA AND BACK TO MECCA WHERE THE KORAN HAS BEEN REAVELED TO PROPHET MOHAMED(PBUBH)/AS YOUR VIEWS GET OVERSHADOWED WHEN U COME IN CONTACT WITH ME BEWARE/SET AND PREPARE A PLACE TO ENTER 4 ENTERNAL HELL/ LEAVIN UNBELIEVERS ABORTED,WITH NO VERBAL SUPPORT/AND WHEN I COMMAND FOR FIGHT IT GETS DEADLYER THEN WORLD WAR 2/WITH OMAR,ABUBAKAR,OSMAN AND ALI, THEY ARE WITH ME/WHO CAN STAND THE MORE POWER I GAIN/AND MAKE IT POSSIBLE FOR ME TO DROP A FEW KUFAARIS LIKE U/IMAGINE AND KEEP ON WISHING UP ON JESUS(AS god)/FINALLY WILL U REALIZE WHO IS THE TRUE GOD/NO BELIEVERS GET MY DICK & GENITALS BACKWARDS/MAN I STAY COOL U MAKING ME TO REACH TO THE POINT OF IRONIC/I WILL BE BACK RIGH AFTER THIS MESSAGE SO DON'T EVER TOUCH YOUR FINGERS ON KEYBOARD/KEEP AWAY FROM THERE AND KEEP A LIVE/
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| | Thursday, February 08, 2001 - 10:07 pm IRONMAN.....THE QURAN DOESN'T NEED A PROTECTOR..KEEP THAT IN MIND......ALLAH IS THE PROTECTOR OF THE QURAN....AND LEAVE THE CONDEMING TO ALLAH....... JOHNNY JAKE......EVERYONE HAS ANSWERED YOUR QUESTIONS....BUT YET YOUR NOT SATISFIED.....WE AREN'T THE ONES WHO ARE HIDING FROM THE TRUTH..YOU ARE......SO PLS THIS DEBATE ISN'T LEADING ANYWERE SO STOP IT NOW BEFORE IT GOES OUT OF LINE.........TO MY SISTER EDIL, MY BROTHER WISDOM YOU ANSWERED HIM....DO NOT WASTE YOUR TIME BROTHERS AND SISTERS......HE BELIVES IN HIS FAITH AS MUCH AS YOU BELIVE IN YOURS...........HE DON'T WHANT TO TURN AWAY FROM JUST AS YOU GUYS DON'T WHANT TO TURN AWAY FROM YOURS.......READ EVERYTHING YOU HAVE WRITTEN.....MY BROTHERS AND SISTERS YOU'LL SEE THAT YOU HAVE WON.......YOU HAD ANSWERS TO ALL OF HIS QUESTIONS AND YET HE DIDN'T HAVE ONE SINGLE ANSWER TO ANY OF YOUR QUESTIONS...........LET HIM BELIVE IN HIS...........AND YOU BELIVE IN YOURS............LAKUM DIINAKUM WA LIYA DIIN......WE'LL SEE ON THE DAY OF JUDGEMEND...... THIS DEBATE STARTED GOOD.....LET'S END IT IN A GOOD WAY......I'M ONLY 18..I'M STILL LEARNING MY DIIN......AND HONESTLY I'VE LEARNED A LOT IN HERE THANXS TO MY BROTHERS AND SISTERS IN ISLAM......... AND WISDOM AND EDIL.....DO EDMIRE THIS MAN....JUST BEACUSE OF THE SIMPLE REASON.....HE KEEPS HIS DIIN DEAR..........AND JOHNNY DO EDMIRE THEM FOR THE SAME REASON THEY KEEP THEIR DIIN TRUE........... SALAAMU CALYKUM BROTHERS AND SISTERS GOOD LUCK IN LIFE BYE JHONNY JAKE .......GOOD LUCK IN LIFE
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| | Friday, February 09, 2001 - 04:55 am IRONMAN - I like your flow! So you must be the Gangster Rapper of Islam???? To cool to be a fool - just muslim? YOu Represent your religion well! Wisdom, you guys are either foolish or very protective of your Quran to see the truth. YOu didnt answer any of my questions at all!!! and I answered all of yours. The posting above is my witness. Anyone who reads these postings will see that your questions have been answer. Maybe it wasnt the answer that you wanted but it was answered! So now that you all have retired to go home and sit and ponder the validatiy of my truths, you should do your own research to learn if I am a big liar or not! If you learn that what I said is true then you really got alot of sould searching to do about what you beleive in. It is one thing to find misspellings or things you dont understand in the bible, but it is another if the Torah and Injel is the foundation of Islam but the Quran contracts them! You be the judge! Peace and blessings in Jesus Name!
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| | Friday, February 09, 2001 - 06:16 am johnnyjake: didn't i tell you before asking that question you should first prove that the bible and the torah are ENTIRELY God's word... man you have a reasoning problem... and you have agreed to that Islam is the fastest growing religion... i got 1 question: why are so many people becoming muslims day after day knowing the fact that they will get their heads chopped off if they leave it? why are they taking that risk? you see, i wouldn't have asked you this question if islam was the fastest growing religion in the world...i would first prove it to you that it is the fastest growing religion...but you made it easy for me and agreed to it by yourself in one of your earlier postings... unlike you, you asked a question: "WHO DO YOU BELEIVE AND FOLLOW, WHAT GOD HIMSELF HAS WRITTEN OR THE QURAN THAT CONTRADICTS WHAT GOD HIMSELF HAS COMMANDED" without proving that what God commands is entirely God's word... your question doesn't make sense without the proof... that is the same thing i posted in my earlier message...but you still kept on asking the same question... what does that prove to me, either one of these: 1) you don't read what ppl post 2) you don't know how to reason 3) or you are just ignoring facts by asking stupid questions that's why no one wants to discuss things with you...you are getting dumber and dunber discussion after discussion... i swear it is like i am debating with a wall...you pretending not to listen to what i am saying...but i know it hurts you inside... you said: "YOu didnt answer any of my questions at all!!! and I answered all of yours. Anyone who reads these postings will see that your questions have been answer. Maybe it wasnt the answer that you wanted but it was answered!" you are a liar, a big liar... give me any question that you asked and i didn't answer...and i'll show the last case where you didn't answer someone's questions...we don't have to go far: look at edil's questions... you are a liar.. you are a big liar.. AFTER ALL ONLY A LIAR (YOU) DEFENDS A LIE(CHRISTIANITY)... you are defending your religion with lies and asking stupid questions and ignoring facts...keep on doing that...and all the doubts you have about christianity build up... you talked about the death penalty for anyone muslims that leaves Islam... answer this: why are so many people becoming muslims day after day knowing the fact that they will get their heads chopped off if they leave it? this question is an answer to the question you asked about the death penalty on the muslims who leave islam... you wanted to make Islam look bad by asking a question like that...but look what i did...i used the same question you asked to defend Islam...can you reason like that without dodging questions... your question would be very hard to answer if no one was accepting Islam...but the fact that Islam is the fastest growing religion and you have agreed to that makes your question very easy to answer... you asked: "WHO DO YOU BELEIVE AND FOLLOW, WHAT GOD HIMSELF HAS WRITTEN OR THE QURAN THAT CONTRADICTS WHAT GOD HIMSELF HAS COMMANDED" and i said prove that the bible is God's word before asking that question...don't put in my mouth what i don't agree to it... i could also ask a question like this: "WOULD YOU RATHER BELIEVE AND FOLLOW WHAT GOD HAS SAID OR THE THE TORAH AND THE INJEL WHICH CONTRADICT WHAT GOS HIMSELF SAID?" do you see... i can only ask a question like that when you have agreed to that the quran is God's word...and i would look very dumb if i asked you a question like that...but you keep on asking the same question again and again...what does that prove? you are dumb dumb dumb and you can't reason... i spent so much time ansewring your questions and showing you that the way you put that question together was wrong...i don't mind spending that much time...but the thing is that when you keep on asking a question that i have answered again and again i feel like i am wasting time here...i don't wanna waste my time on a fool who doesn't know what he is talking about...but if i do then i am more of a fool than him because i am the one who is replying to him... let us not forget our brains when we want to post a message so i don't feel like i am wasting time in here...me and the other reasonable ppl here. peace out
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| | Friday, February 09, 2001 - 06:24 am Qub qac- IT'S OUR MISSION AS MUSLIMS TO PORTRAY OUR DEEN IN FORM OF DACWA AND FIGHT EVIL. BUT WALAAL IN ORDER TO TEACH UR RELIGION U HAVE TO LEARN ABOUT OTHER RELIGIONS TOO SO U CAN COMMENT ON THEIR SIMILARITIES AND THEIR DIFFERENCES. AND AS WE ALL KNOW JUDAISM, CHRISTIANITY AND ISLAM ARE SIMILAR RELIGIONS. THEREFORE IF U WANNA TEACH A CHRISTIAN PERSON ABOUT ISLAM U HAVE 2 LEARN ABOUT CHRISTIANITY AS WELL, SO U DON'T BORE THE PERSON U R TEACHING, THIS COULD MAKE THE PERSON MORE INTERESTED IN ISLAM AS THEY SEE THE LIGHT OF OUR RELIGION .>>>ISLAM<<< SORRY IF I'M NOT MAKING A LOT OF SENSE I'M KINDA TIRED 1LUV 4 HUMANITY
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| | Friday, February 09, 2001 - 08:09 am Rule #1 You dont answer a question by asking one and then saying I used your question to answer you. That is the dumbest thing I have heard in my life! Rule#2 Why get angry with me, I didnt write any of those books, Torah, Injel nor Quran. I am just pointing out the contradictions in the Quran when they go against what God Himself has comanded. Rule #3 The Torah and Injel is the foundation of the Quran so if the Quran goes against its own foundation then it doesnt have one. Rule #4 I will not answer foolish questions that is not based (written in Torah, Injel or Quran)example, if the bible says God is 3 in one .... It doesnt say that anywhere so I dont answer those types of questions. Rule #5 There is no point in our discussions if Muslims dont beleive in the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob. Wisdom: IF you get so emotional because it seems like your beleive system is under attack by the truth then dont get angry with me because all I am doing is telling you whats in these books. I dare you and challenge you to prove me wrong. You can research this very quickly by going to www.bible.com and doing a search on each question I asked. Please don't take my word but prove me wrong and learn while you are doing it. Peace and blessings in Jesus' name!
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| | Friday, February 09, 2001 - 08:59 am Johnny Listen carefully to what I have to say; The questions you asked about Islam earlier in the postings showed that you had no education regarding the religion of Islam. So please, go to the your nearest public Library and get some books about Islam. If you need some that compare Christianity and Islam, I'll be more than glad to send them to you. If you don't want to learn about it, then let's end this discussion. Not only are we educated about our religion, but we also educated about yours. So what are you trying to accomplish? You seemed to be smart and educated at first, but now you really seem desperate. END this discussion before you make more fool of yourself. WISDOM&Jamiila I got to hand it to you guys, you are really smart, honestly. We should start a new Topic for the like minded (even though we have no time,) what do you think? Assalamu-alaikum, PEACE!!!!I am out
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| | Friday, February 09, 2001 - 09:04 am Hey, just to round out the discussion: I am a Somali atheist. That means I don't believe there's any evidence what-so-ever for the existence of God(s). "Religion is a major weapon in the war against reality." Anonymous
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| | Friday, February 09, 2001 - 09:33 am and what is reality then??? tell me......I would gladly hear your thoughts about reality...tell me
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| | Friday, February 09, 2001 - 09:58 am Edil, You have a good strategy - can't answer the questions so end the discussion? I knew you wouldnt be able answer a single question. Moslems have this proud air about them that we are the best and what we have is pure but now I proved to you that what you have is tainted, sour and spoiled! To sin is one thing but when you teach others to go God against what GOD HIMSELF has commanded is an abombination!!!! So if you dont want to continue in this discussion - thats fine! In fact start your own. But when you come to this discussion plan on learning the truth. The truth will set you free! You know I wouldnt have asked this questions if I knew that there was any chance of being proven wrong. But these questions are from direct comandments of GOD HIMSELF. There is no 3rd party person to blame who you can say corrupted what God stated. The over vane of my question is this: Do you beleive in the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob??? If so, you have hope - if not there is not hope for you. Peace and blessings in Jesus name!
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| | Friday, February 09, 2001 - 10:02 am PragmaticGal, Please be very careful to tell anyone your beleif - especially if it is not Islam. Otherwise you will get intimidations, threaten, name called and if you were a muslim before - murder! So what made you leave Islam PragmaticGal??? I can imagine what it was but please do tell us. peace
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| | Friday, February 09, 2001 - 10:06 am So what is it about islam that will make a person leave it and not have a religion at all? So far there has been 3 ex-muslims who decided that they had enough and didnt want nothing to do with any religion. What is causing this?
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| | Friday, February 09, 2001 - 11:29 am I admire your questioning of Islam. At last people can ask the hard questions. And questions regarding women, slavery, and tolerance ARE hard for Muslims, because deep down inside they know the Qur'an/Hadith are not appropriate moral standards for the twenty-first century. They may have been revolutionary in the 6th century, but this is a different era: people are more open-minded, they feel safe in questioned cherished myths and beliefs (unless a fatwa is issued against them, of course!). They go right to the source, instead of relying on their Sheiks and parents to tell them what the Qur'an and Hadith say.
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| | Friday, February 09, 2001 - 12:06 pm Once again, STOP being so the DESPERATE, your Questions Have been answered. GO BACK and READ The Postings. Why should we answer when you are not even listening or trying to reason. Now I know what Wisdom was talking about. My god,you are like a wall, same questions over and over again. PEACE!!!!!
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| | Friday, February 09, 2001 - 12:32 pm Johnyjake: <So what is it about islam that will make a person leave it and not have a religion at all?> Don't kid yourself. I left Islam for the same reason I would never accept Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism or any other system of belief/good conduct that relies on the worship and adulation of non-existent beings--namely Gods. I am not some disillusioned Muslim who's easy pickings for a Bible-touting idiot who thinks anything that contradicts the Bible must be false. And FYI, if there are "3 ex-Muslims" here, it's because Somalis are predominantly Muslims, and anybody saying they no longer believe in God would be tantamount to saying they no longer accept Islam. There are thousands of "ex-Christians" in other web forums. Ask THEM what it is about Christianity that makes them leave and never accept any other religion. Face it: people are leaving organized religion in droves, and why? because the days of the elite few ruling the illiterate masses are over, at least here in the West: In India, Hindu priests are already blaming the victims of the earthquake for a natural disaster, and the survivors fervently agree; a little while ago Muslim youth rampaged through a major city in Nigeria, vandalizing hotels and harassing non-Muslims during a lunar eclipse, because they believed it was caused by the "sins and indecency" of the non-Muslims. In Brazil, people are still too afraid to admit they are atheists, because the Roman Catholic Church still has a strangle-hold there. There's still minds to free, and lives to rescue.
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| | Friday, February 09, 2001 - 12:35 pm Anonymous: That's funny. I could have sworn I just posted that paragraph somewhere else on the forum! hmmm, an admirer
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| | Friday, February 09, 2001 - 12:43 pm Johnyjake The ppl you are arguing seem to have multiple personalities, changing from xx to yy and now to zzz.. An imposter can never stand up to the reality let alone abstarct ideas. These guys argued with ye very well at the begining and now it seems they are out of "intellectual continuum" may i say to further the aims of Islam..' Anyway,,let them spit venoms that cant harm,,lol,, Very stupid ppl indeed,,they have a long way to go in mastering the art of intellectual discussion.. Johny--have you ever asked yourself " who are these ppl commmanding you to stop the discusion and submit to their orders? Kibirka somaalida ,,lol,,damn me,,,do this and that with dry words.. and who are they to command,,,? fools..keep parking and parking,,woof woof woof woof,,and mew mew mew..like a lost animals who can be tamed..Johny--i leave that to ye,,tame these animals ..
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| | Friday, February 09, 2001 - 12:45 pm ProgmaticGal..... I have a question for you.....what's wrong with beliving on A god on a higher power?...just a simple question..you may think it's dumb question......but do answer my question?.....you told us why people leave realigions.....but not what's wrong with beliving...??....pls answer my question
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| | Friday, February 09, 2001 - 12:56 pm May the peace and blessings of the Most High be upon those that follow the true guidance. Warsame, Johnny Jake and anybody else that doubts Islam: What makes you doubt Islam? Is it because "everything is (or seems to be) haraam"? Or is it because of the culture that other people like to add to it? Please answer. Thanx! Your sister in Islam! P.S. By the way "Proffessor", it is not... "keep parking and parking,,woof woof woof woof"... It's barking. Would you like a bebsi professor ?
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| | Friday, February 09, 2001 - 01:17 pm well proffessor, since you've already named your self to mr inteligent....why don't you go back and read everything that's been said in here...then you'll see were the ignorance lies....and you whant us to reason...well let's do it....lets put two and two together.......we'll reason..... WHAT YOU SAY ABOUT THAT JHONNY, WISDOM AND EDIL?? WHAT YOU SAY ABOUT IF WE REASON??.....WE'RE NOT GONNA USE ANY BOOKS ONLY OUR COMMEN SENSE.....LET'S DO IT SHALL WE AND SINCE PROF. IS EDUCATED IN HOW TO ADDRES ISSUES LIKE THIS.....WHAT YOU SAY BOUT IF WE LET YOU BEGIN....LEAD US TO THE RIGHT STRATIGY LET'S REASON
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| | Friday, February 09, 2001 - 02:07 pm Stranger Islam seems to me a dream of someone not a reality that you have to face every day life.... Somalis (who believe it and who don't understand the meaning of quran, who just memorize Quraan, who stay in Masjid in every friday for hours and do not understantand arabic language and consequently what the Sheekh is saying)........ are they what... stupids or victims?...Help!!
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| | Friday, February 09, 2001 - 03:34 pm Jamiila: Okay, okay! I'll answer your question. "What's wrong with believing in god(s)? Absolutely nothing. You can believe anything you wish: Allah, Jehovah, Jesus Christ, Buddha, Krishna, Ra or all of them simultaneously. Just don't try to intimidate people to believe what you believe, as everyone here seems to be doing: Johnyjake on the one hand trumpetting the Bible as the invariant "Word of God", nearly everybody else screaming that it's the Qur'an that's the true "Word of God" and anybody who believes otherwise is a "faggot" (somehow I never understood that: a Christian or Jew is as anti-homosexual as the next Muslim). And of course atheists get the short shrift: they are unreasonable because they deny the existence of God. In the Qur'an, an atheist is worse than a non-Muslim monotheist, right? Yet were do ALL non-Muslims eventually end up? Hell, of course. So I don't understand how a Christian is somehow better than a Hindu, if both are ultimately destined for the same place. It's another one of those contradictions and inconsistencies in the Qur'an that so baffles me. And that all Muslims explain away or overlook.
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| | Friday, February 09, 2001 - 03:35 pm LOl, gax gax gax gix gix gix Wooooooooah! Peace and blessings to all! I like to welcome back our founder of this most infamous discussion area, Brother Warsame - welcome back. It is good to have your input available to put things back in balance. PragmaticGal - I think you are a ex-muslim but I will not call you a liar dear! Anyway I like the way you were able to steer the discussion into another direction. We need your leadership andinput here. Please dont get discouraged by some of the harsh remarks. And Again the Professor is always a welcome participate here - we all have so much to learn from his intellect. That is if we allow ourselves to trust his judgement and to guide us in the art of debate. For those closed minded types, and you know who you are - I will not name you. YOu are seeking answers and truth inside. your mind is expanding with the possibilities of something - yes anything other than the NORM! Let us begin to learn from one another! peace
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| | Friday, February 09, 2001 - 03:44 pm Dear Stranger, What makes me doubt Islam is the people. Muslims are very negative and they have this way of intimidation and threats about them. If you dont stay in the fold or gang you-will-be-killed-if you-leave attitude. Or you will burn in hell if you do this or that. They boast alot too saying that everything is corrupted except what they have and you dont know nothing if you are not a muslims. Always trying to find fault in everything but never cleaning out their own eyes. That is the reason Stranger.
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| | Friday, February 09, 2001 - 04:34 pm You know PragmaticGal, I used to ask the same questions about those like the Hindus VS the Christians. It was like "oh the Christians are Kaffirs and Infidels" but it is still ok to marry the women. But you cant marry the Hindu woman because she is a Kaffir and a Infidel too - I am like totally confused by that logic. Or another is, a muslim woman can't marry a Christian man or else she will burn in Hell. But if she happens to have sex with him it is not a greater sin then to marry him - Hmmmmmmmmm That is the stupidest thing that I ever heard of. I would question my own sanity after hearing this all the time by many muslims. How can a group of people all think the same way like one big confused mind? So to ask a question like what is a kaffir and what is an infidel - I would hear "...oh they are both the same..." One big confused train of thought! So PragmaticGal because you are an athesis and I am a Christian we are both Kuffars and Infidels. No difference between us. :-)
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| | Friday, February 09, 2001 - 06:15 pm Dear Warsame and Johnyjake: May the peace and blessings of Allah be upon all those who follow the True guidance... Ameen! First and foremost, may Allah guide us all on to His straight path... Ameen! Honestly, the only thing that makes sense to me on this earth is Islaam. Not the Islaam that most Muslims are upon today, but the Islaam that the prophet (saw), his companions, and those who followed their footsteps are upon. May Allah (swt) make us of those who follow the Prophet's (saw) footsteps... Ameen! It truly does sadden me that there is even a seed of doubt in your heart. The most misunderstood religion in the world is Islam. Why?... because of it's "followers", as well as the whole propaganda that is in the media, etc. From what both of you wrote, it seems that what makes you doubt Islam are the Muslim themselves. Wallahi, I don't blame you one bit! Nevertheless, that is not what we are suppposed to judge a religion upon. When you say that you are a Muslim, you are saying that you have submitted to the will of Allah the Most High. Just because your parents are Muslim, doesn't necessarily mean that you are a Muslim. If your father is a doctor, does that make you a doctor? No. Same thing goes for being a Muslim. Islam is not a clan or a tribe that one belongs to. Personally, my father isn't a Muslim, and my mother is. Well, I could say what some people say... that I am half Muslim, half Athiest (since one parent is Muslim and the other is not). I don't see how that can make sense! Me, I am a Muslim, a servant of Allah, that has fully submitted my will to the Lord of the heavens and the earth. Islam is a complete way of life, which contains guidance as to how one should live their life. It is a religion, a path, a way of life. It is the best social system and works anywhere in the world, any time and in any place. In it (i.e. Islam), Allah has given us a set of rules to abide by. He has made a "physical" boundary for us. If we stay within it... then we will succeed. If we don't, then we won't. Allah (swt), the creator, knows his creation best, and has designed this way of life for us. When Allah (swt) makes something haraam, he has made it so for a more than valid reason. It is out of His wisdom that he has made it haraam. For instance, there are five main purposes of Shari'ah (Islamic Law): 1) Protection of Deen: An example of protection of deen would be jihaad. To ensure that Allah's word is superior and that his religion is not destroyed, Allah has told us to fight in His way when we (i.e Muslims) are being oppressed. Allah the Most High states: "And fight in the Way of Allah those who fight you..." 2) Protection of Honour: An example of this would be guarding our chastity. To guard our chastity, Allah, the Most Knowledgeable, has prescribed that both men and women lower their gaze, and protect their private part, as well as other things. "Tell the believing men to lower their gaze (from looking at forbidden things) and protect their private parts (from illegal sexual acts. etc.). That is purer for them. Verily Allah is All-Aware of what they do." "And tell the believing women to lower their gaze (from looking at forbidden things and protect their private parts (from illegal sexual acts. etc...." 3) Protection of Property: An example of this would be usury (riba). With this system, the rich only benefit, while the poor get poorer in most cases. To ensure that this does not happen, Allah has made usury haraam. We should not pay interest, not receive it. Allah (swt) states: "Oh you who believe! Eat not riba (usury)..." 4) Protection of Mind: An example of this would be intoxicants. As is prevalent in this society, intoxicants have caused much harm to the individual, including many people's lives by drinking and driving. It causes people to loose control of their mental faculty as well as causing brain damage. Allah, the All-Aware, has made intoxicants haraam for this reason. Allah (swt) says: "Oh you who believe! Intoxicants (all kinds of alcoholic drinks), gambling, Al-Ansaab, and Al-Azlaam (arrows for seeking luck or decision) are an abomination of Satan's handiwork. So avoid (strictly all) that (abomination) in order that you may be successful." 5) Protection Body: An example of this would be eating pork. Pigs are extremely dirty animals and contain diseases and worms. (Try leaving a piece of pig flesh out for one hour, and see what comes out of it!). Allah, knowing his creation much more than we do, has made it haraam for us. Allah (swt) states: "Forbidden to you are: Al-Maytata, blood, the flesh of swine..." These are just a few examples. There are much more examples that can be discussed such as pre-marital sex, hijaab, and the list goes on. My point here is, when Allah makes something HALAAL or HARAAM, it is made so for a reason. Wake up my dear brothers... WAKE UP! In regards to the follower's (AKA. Muslims), then that is a different issue. We need to separate the religion, from the culture and it's followers. Do NOT judge a religion by it's people!!! Warsame: >>Somalis (who believe it and who don't understand the meaning of quran, who just memorize Quraan, who stay in Masjid in every friday for hours and do not understantand arabic language and consequently what the Sheekh is saying)........ are they what... stupids or victims? << I fully understand where you are coming from. I recall, myself, when I used to go to "Islamic classes" (on Sundays) and all we used to do is memorize Qur'an, and nothing else. You have a very strong point, what is the point in memorizing when you don't even understand it? Well, there I was memorizing the Qur'an (alhamdullilah), and not even understanding it one bit. (I am not saying that children should not memorize it whatsoever. Moreover, they should, because that is the best time for them to do it. Nevertheless, they should also teach them arabic, and the meaning of the verses (depending on their age). By the mercy of Allah and my dear mother, she took us on a little trip one summer (let's just say it was extended to two years) to the east, and I was able to learn the arabic language. Wallahi, the Qur'an sounds the best in it's mother tongue, and truly does penetrate through your heart when you understand it. Once again, you have a valid point brother. Nevertheless, I don't think that this is a problem with the religion, it is with the people. Johnnyjake (where did you get that name from anyway?): >> Muslims are very negative and they have this way of intimidation and threats about them. If you dont stay in the fold or gang you-will-be-killed-if you-leave attitude. Or you will burn in hell if you do this or that. They boast alot too saying that everything is corrupted except what they have and you dont know nothing if you are not a muslims. Always trying to find fault in everything but never cleaning out their own eyes. << Yea, in regards to the people, yes... some people are very intimidating (Muslim and NON-Muslims alike). Let me just say that all of us are not blessed with akhlaaq (manners), and wisdom. There is a whole methodology, first of all, in giving da'wah. I must agree, many Muslims are extreemly lacking in this (I am not excluding myself out of this category). Let us look at the example of the Prophet (saw). There was a time when a bedouin relieved himself in the masjid. Some of the companion got up and wanted to deal with the brother. The prophet stopped them and let the man continue. Once he was done, he (saw) informed him that that is not something that one should do in the masjid. (Sorry, I don't have the hadeeth memorized, so I am majorly paraphrasing. To the best of my knowledge, this is an authentic hadeeth. If I am wrong, please do correct me. Do you see how the prophet dealt with this situation? Well.. I think I have said enough for now... I typed most of this up right now (except for the purpose of Share'a part where I copied and pasted from something else I wrote). So, my thoughts are most likely jumping from one place to another (and I hate reading over what I write!) Feel free to give me some feedback insha-Allah. Moreover, I will be awaiting for your feedback insha-Allah. If I have spoken correctly, then it is from Allah alone, and if I have made any error then it is from myself and from Satan. If I have offended anyone, then please do forgive me insha-Allah. Fee amanillah. Wassalaamu alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatuh Your sister in Islam!
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| | Friday, February 09, 2001 - 06:22 pm Oh.. by the way Johnnyjake, I just noticed your not a Muslim (from your post to PragmaticGal)... so I guess what I wrote to you was no use (maybe I should read the posts before I speak eh. Sorry!
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| | Friday, February 09, 2001 - 07:19 pm Warsame, E se siete in dubbio circa che cosa abbiamo rivelato (il Quran) al nostro worshiper (Muhammad), allora producagli un capitolo e chiami i vostri testimoni (sostenitori ed assistenti) oltre al dio se siete sinceri. E se non lo fate e voi può non farlo mai, quindi temono il fuoco (hell) di cui il combustibile è uomini e pietre. È stato preparato per i disbelievers. E dia le buone notizie (O Muhammad) a coloro che crede e fa i buoni atti, quella per loro sono giardini (paradise) in cui i fiumi entrano.... (Quran, 2:23-25) Da quando il Quran è stato rivelato, quattordici secoli fa, nessuno ha potuto produrre un singolo capitolo come i capitoli del Quran nella loro bellezza, il eloquence, lo splendor, legislazione saggia, allineare le informazioni, allineare il prophecy ed altri attributi perfetti. **time-out** anche, not che piccolo capitolo Quran (capitolo 108) essere soltanto dieci parola, tuttavia nessuno mai essere in grado per ven a contatto questo sfida, allora o today.1 alcuno non cred Arabo che essere nemico prophet Muhammad prov per ven a contatto questo sfida per dimostr che Muhammad essere non un allineare prophet, ma ven a mancare per fa so.2 questo guasto essere malgrado il fatto che Quran essere rivel loro proprio linguaggio e dialetto e che Arabo ai tempi Muhammad essere un molto eloquente gente che us per compor bel e eccellente poesia, alambicco legg e apprezz oggi.
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| | Friday, February 09, 2001 - 07:58 pm johnnyjake you said: "I will not answer foolish questions that is not based (written in Torah, Injel or Quran)example, if the bible says God is 3 in one .... It doesnt say that anywhere so I dont answer those types of questions." what about two gods? since you said that you believe in two gods... i'll prove to you that the bible is going against the torah (10 commandments) and the quran... you believe in the so called 10 commandments of moses from God...in one of those commandments god said: "YOU SHALL NOT HAVE OTHER GODS BUT ME" the quran also talks about 1 God... where does your idea about the two Gods come in the picture? now show me from here where the two gods are...were does jesus come in here? now tell me which book is contradicting which? your bible is contradicting the torah... so which one is God's word? i asked the same question and i didn't get an answer that makes sense... answer this question if you want the discussion to go on...
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| | Friday, February 09, 2001 - 10:46 pm J-jake ...the first man Allah created was Adam just same like Allah created Issa or jesus His image through Mariam ,and we never call Adam son of God because Quran is very clear they all Messengers ,Allah chose them and reveal with his message to us ...and muslims we believe Muhammad (SAW) was the last prophet to save us...... the secod One don't make confusion when muslim man want to marry a christian woman islam is very clear there are conditions first there must be no muslim woman around or available in the area..secondly instead of sinning he is allowed to marry only if she believes the four holy four books ..Ibrahim..Moses..Issa and Muhammad (SAW).... and the other one responsibilitiy ,in the christian culture and judaism the mothers seem to be the fundamental guide the children faith......but in muslim culture mostly are the fathers. and to my dear Warsame distinguish between the true islam and the cultures don't fall foolish crusade all glliters are not gold, everything you want is in the islam my Allah bless and put peace in your heart ..... islam is the answer.'''''''''
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| | Saturday, February 10, 2001 - 01:19 am Stranger, sis Honestly....you opened my eyes....you said in one posting....what all of us was trying to say....I do admire you sis.....well done sis..
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| | Saturday, February 10, 2001 - 05:36 am Peace and blessings to you all in the Holy Name of Jesus! I must admit we are getting some quality input from the new participants in this discussion group. Some postings have been very informative and educational as well. It is refreshing to have some 'Female Leadership' in this discussion area. I know that Islam doesnt condon female leadership but I, as well as (If I may speak on his behave)Warsame welcome this type of input. Sorry if I am not able to give much input now but it is Saturday, the SABBATH DAY and I must go church now. Peace and blessings!
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| | Saturday, February 10, 2001 - 05:57 am > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>>>Assalamu Alaikum This is a letter from Saudi Arabia and addressed to all > > >>>>>the Muslims. These are the words of Sheik Ahmed,the watchman of the > > >>>>>Prophet Muhammad's mosque (PBUH). On Friday night after reciting the > > >>>>>Holy Quran, Sheik Ahmed slept and saw the Holy Prophet (PBUH) in his > > >>>>>dream. The Prophet (PBUH)said to him, "Sheik Ahmed, this Friday about > > >>>>>six thousand (6,000) people died, but none of them went toheaven. The > > >>>>>women do not follow what their husbands tell them anymore. The believers > > >>>>>who have money do not help the poor. People do not perform their > > >>>>>pilgrimage as it is prescribed. The Muslims do not say their prayers > > >>>>>regularly, let alone how it is supposed to be." Sheik Ahmed, tell the > > >>>>>Muslims that this letter comes from you. They are to produce more copies > > >>>>>of this letter and give to other Muslims so that it can spread and get > > >>>>>to all the Muslims in this world. Anyone who produces this and spreads > > >>>>>it to other Muslims will see it indeed (will see the REWARD). The > > >>>>>Prophet (PBUH) will count such a person to Paradise along with his > > >>>>>children. The Muslim who receives this letter and refuses to disperse it > > >>>>>among other Muslims will not seebenediction INSHALLAH). Those who are > > >>>>>indebted must write. Allah in his infinite mercies will send help to pay > > >>>>>his debt. I, SheikAhmed, if what I said is a lie, may the Prophet (PBUH) > > >>>>>not send his divine benediction to me. Dear Muslim brothers and sisters, > > >>>>>you must follow the religion the way the Prophet (PBUH) honored it, like > > >>>>>the divine revelation it is. Ask for forgiveness, fast every Monday. > > >>>>>Produce twenty (20) copies of this letter and spread it to all Muslims. > > >>>>>Anyone who does this until all Muslims get a copy, will INSHALLAH, see > > >>>>>the opening of the Prophet's(PBUH) desires and success will follow. He > > >>>>>will see thethings he had never seen before. This is not a letter to be > > >>>>>kept. It must be dispersed in large quantities. * A man called Klavern, > > >>>>>got this letter andgave it to his secretary to produce twenty (20) > > >>>>>copies and disperse them. After some days, he saw many doors of > > >>>>>opportunities opening up forhim. Another person named Abdul-Salam got it > > >>>>>and forgot it in the drawer of his office, and after a certain time he > > >>>>>lost his job.He later remembered the letter and went and produced twenty > > >>>>>20) copies which were distributed and within five (5) days he got > > >>>>>employed and is in a higher position than what he had before. Another > > >>>>>man called Balemanthan received it and he thought it was something > > >>>>>useless and treated it without respect or courtesy. He tore the letter > > >>>>>and within nine (9) days he died. I am appealing to anyone who comes > > >>>>>across this letter to kindly circulate it in large volume. Thanks. May > > >>>>>Allah Bless You. With regards Golam Mortuza > > > i hope you guys enjoyed...... peace&harmony
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| | Saturday, February 10, 2001 - 06:07 am johnnyjake don't forget to answer my last question when you come back from church
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| | Saturday, February 10, 2001 - 06:19 am Dear poeple, Johnnyjake, let me correct you; Sabbath is for the Jew and not for the Christians since you claimed to be a christian. Why did you say you are a Somali when claerly you are not. ( if you argue against that I will prove it) I think, you should say who you are, that is not a problem. poeple have different races and still discuss in anything. I have been reading through all your posts and seems that you do not read what the Muslims have to say in reply to your inputs. second, I have noticed that you did not answer any of the questions that the brothers asked you while you welcomed all the women as sweets and dears. You are trying to point out to them that Islam is unfair religion to them while at the sametime the religion you are professing ( Christianity) is the bases of discrimination against women. Brother Dick gave you a very good answer regarding your beleave in The Bible. That is it is no longer the religion of God. Thus, I would suggest you should stop quating from the Bible. To the sisters, I would suggest you should take the advice the brothers gave you. at least, you should repeat the legitimate questions asked by the Brothers before you continue wortheless discusion with someone who is not answering the basic questions. It is an advice from a muslim sister take it or leave it.
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| | Saturday, February 10, 2001 - 06:47 am All Muslims I am still muslim (I think), though I am not conservative at all and sometimes I am very critic to Islam. Some of you are just keep repeating what every Somali person has heard since early childhood. I was expecting new ideas, specially from younger generation, to make Islam better than what used to be once upon the time, but all what I see is perseveration, just keep repeating whatever 14 centuries ago some ppl said (spec. Hadiisis). Could you imagine that non of Khulafaa'u raashidiintii and Phrophet Moh. knew how to read and to write even their own names. It's just scary to think about how some ppl want to stick with all their actions. Very simple and elementary example is how to use the toilet, knowing that at that time there were available neither toilet paper nor running water and we all know the consequence -- wide spread of oral-fecal transmissible diseases--. lol I hope every1 got it. I believe that, in the 21 century, Muslims (esp. Somalis) cannot afford to use the basic political, social and economic principals that Muslims dictated in the first 200 hundred years. The fact that all most all Islam countries are struggling to survive in this world from economic social and political point of view is one great example. Nuunow Non fa senso copiare le versette Coraniche da una pagina e collare su di un'altra. Se ti fa senso per te, micca fa senso per me. Per favore la prossima volta cerca di usare il tuo cervello e dire quello che pensi. Perche se non lo usi (il tuo cervellino) ti denuncera il giorno del giudizio. Inoltre stai anche attento che il cervello umano puo degenerare facilmente se non viene allenato --- come un muscolo. Fratello non te la prendere e stammi bene. Burhaan
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| | Saturday, February 10, 2001 - 06:52 am All muslims I am still muslim (I think), though I am not conservative at all and sometimes I am very critic to Islam. Some of you are just keep repeating what every Somali person has heard since early childhood. I was expecting new ideas, esp from younger generation, to make Islam better than what used to be once upon the time, but all what I see is persevaration, just keep repeating whatever 14 centuries ago some ppl said (esp. Hadiisis). Could you imagine that non of Khulafaa'u raashidiintii and Phrophet Moh. knew how to read and to write even their own names. It's just scary to think about how some ppl want to stick with all their actions. Very simple and elementary example is how to use the toilet, knowing that at that time there were available neither toilet paper nor running watter and we all know the consequense -- wide spread of oral-fecal transmissable diseases--. lol I hope every1 got it. I believe that, in the 21 century, Muslims (esp. Somalis) cannot afford to use the basic political, social and economic principals that Muslims dictated in the first 200 hundred years. The fact that all most all Islam countries are struggling to survive in this world from economic social and political point of view is one great example. Nuunow Non fa senso copiare le versette Coraniche da una pagina e collare su di un'altra. Se ti fa senso per te, micca fa senso per me. Per favore la prossima volta cerca di usare il tuo cervello e dire quello che pensi. Perche se non lo usi (il tuo cervellino) ti denuncera il giorno del giudizio. Inoltre stai anche attento che il cervello umano puo degenerare facilmente se non viene allenato --- come un muscolo. Fratello non te la prendere e stammi bene. Burhaan
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| | Saturday, February 10, 2001 - 07:30 am hayaay, all those thrown away from the islamic forums are here. Pragmaticgal, You refused my invitation because you are not she??? huh?? Burhaan, get your fact straight. The Khulafaa' u alrasidiin's could read and write Arabic. You see if you do not know the history of Islam you would think this way. That is, you think it is something out-dated. Your commont to Nuunow, Well, we have to refer to the Quran whenever we have to back up our arguments. The Quran is elegant, perfect and no one could produce anything like the quran.( 2;23-25, the Quran) We do not have to say something new. CERTO, Pensi ancora A muslimano, a perche??? none capisco La tua surrela Arawello
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| | Saturday, February 10, 2001 - 07:41 am I'll end this depate for you all... it is so easy. The Three Roman Idols -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- God, in His wisdom, knew that there would be polytheists like trinitarians and the like. To nip the matter "in the bud" for anyone who has any sincerity, he declared that the first of ALL the commandments was to know that he was only one person (God). I guess he knew that evil men would take advantage of His multiple, omnipresent abilities in their efforts of deception. Mark 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments [is], Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: Then Jehovah God spoke to clearly declare that He was ONE, with no one beside him Isaiah 43:11 I, [even] I, [am] the LORD; and beside me [there is] no saviour. Now if there were other "trinto-junior person" here, why would Jehovah claim to be the only SAVIOUR? Isaiah 45:21 Tell ye, and bring [them] near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? [who] hath told it from that time? [have] not I the LORD? and [there is] no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; [there is] none beside me. Hosea 13:4 Yet I [am] the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for [there is] no saviour beside me. It is extremely important to God that He be worshipped and not a counterfeit created by the devil. Notice that even in the new testament there is a warning that describes trinitarianism exactly. Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. Colossians 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: Then another verse leads us to the crux of the matter, which is why no trinitarian will be saved. They have manufactured an idol god, a three headed monstrosity that does not at all exist in reality, they are believing in a manufactured, junior, "second person" of a three headed idol. Jeremiah 16:20 Shall a man make gods unto himself, and they [are] no gods? They are "no gods". The "three persons" of the trinity theory do not exist. Now, there may very well be Spirits behind the idol that are accepting the worship directed towards the trinity, which may explain the whooo woooo in the false churches that some mistake for God. But "they are no gods", because they are gods that man made up. I Corinthians 8:4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol [is] nothing in the world, and that [there is] none other God but one. I Corinthians 8:5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) Some might ask why, with all these verses will men still follow after idol gods, and slander those who are trying to help them? Well....* I Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned. And so the deceived will ignore all the above verses and look at some verse that they don't understand and go "Duh, well that looks like more than one god (person) to me." and their false preachers will soothe them back to sleep with YAL (Yet Another Lie)... Steve Winter http://www.prime.org/$3idols.htm ................................. http://www.it-is-truth.org/ Dear Seeker of Truth, No one is compelled to accept the truth, but it is certainly a shame upon the human intellect when a man is not even interested in finding out what the truth is! Islam teaches that our Creator has given human beings the faculty of reason. Therefore, it is incumbent upon them to reason things out objectively and systematically for themselves to ponder, to question and to reflect. Nobody should press you to make a hasty decision to accept any of the teachings of Islam, for Islam teaches that human beings should be given the freedom to choose. Even when a person is faced with the truth, there is no compulsion upon him to embrace it. But before you begin to form an opinion about Islam, ask yourself whether your existing knowledge about it is thorough enough. Ask yourself whether that knowledge has been obtained through third party sources who themselves have probably been exposed to only random glimpses of Islamic writings and have yet to reason out on Islam objectively and systematically themselves. Is it fair enough that one should form an opinion about the taste of a particular dish just by a mere hearsay from others who may themselves have not necessarily tasted the dish yet? Similarly you should find out for yourself about Islam from reliable sources and not only taste it, but rather digest it very well before you form an opinion of it. That would be an intellectual approach to the truth. In making your next move to the truth, Islam continually reassures you that your rights to freedom of choice and freedom to use that God-given faculty of thought and reason will be respected, for everyone has that individual will. No one else can take away that will and force you to submit to the true way of your Creator, you have to find out and make that decision yourself! May your intellectual journey towards the truth be a pleasant and fruitful one. Once again each to his/her own mentus compus... Finito... mucho gusto tu intervension.... gratias... venos nochas... adios... Senioras ii senioritas... hehe noi deke... adios
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| | Saturday, February 10, 2001 - 07:42 am YOU PEOPLE DON'T UNDERSTAND THAT WARSAME,JONYJAKE,BURHAAN AND ALL THE OTHER SO-CALLED KUFAARIS IS JUST ONE AND ONLY DEVIL WHO STARTED THIS PAGE FIRST,THIS HARD HEADED BASTARD IS TRYING TO HAVE DIFFERENT NAMES AND MAKE US TO THINK THAT THERE IS ALOT OF UNBELEIVERS TO DEAL WITH;- WELL LISTEN MAN! WE DON'T HAVE ANY DOUBT FROM OUR RELIGION BUT I THINK U HAVE DOUBT FROM YOURS SO GO AND CONSULT YOUR WORRIES WHO EVER CARES, CUZ WE SOMALIANS DON'T CARE ABOUT! U HEARDDDDDDD MEEEEEE!!!!!!!!
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| | Saturday, February 10, 2001 - 07:49 am •••• u jonhyjake, get ur motherfucken ass from here now! who do u think ur are bring your ass in somalinet with this bullshit! get a life bitch!
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| | Saturday, February 10, 2001 - 07:56 am WHAT THE •••• IS THIS jonhy,burhan and warsame talking about! come get my dick faggots! u brain washed suckers! hit the highway bitchies niggers! •••• uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
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| | Saturday, February 10, 2001 - 08:02 am WHAT ARE U GAYS SOME WHITE SPY ••••! U COME TO SPREAD UR DEADLY POSIOUNSE TO SOMALIS.WELL DON'T ASK US TO CHANGE OUR RELIGION CUZ ITS 2001/ GET OUT! U DUMB NIGGERS, U GET PAID TO DIVIDE SOMALIS!
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| | Saturday, February 10, 2001 - 10:07 am Warsame and those who sound like him are you getting pay your missionaries from the christian crusaders . You cheap and will have very soon heart diseases. it is not the religions....... you devils and lost your mind and hearts...
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| | Saturday, February 10, 2001 - 10:28 am Warsame,johnn,profesor, Burhaan Are all Fags yo, bluh bluh bluh bluh bluh bluh bluh bluh bluh bulls**t bluh bluh bluh bluh bluh bluh bluh bluh bluh bluh Bulls**t bluh bluh bluh bluh bluh Bulls**t bluh bluh bluh bluh bluh bluh bluh Bulls**t bluh bluh bluh bluh bluh bluh Bulls**t bluh bluh bluh bluh bluh bluh Bulls**t spreading garbage. ROT in HELL, Rot in Hell, Rot in Hell, Rot in Hell.
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| | Saturday, February 10, 2001 - 11:05 am Salama... No! Noooooh-Noooooooooh!! Oh-No-No!!! No, No, No, No!!!! They've been 'beaten' up in the 'real' stadium of Islaam. Yeah, they went Islam Forum. And the result: Allahu-Aclam. Yep, Warsame afraids in that particular discussion--the Islamic Forum, not this corrupted General one. Already, J-J admitted in there he is taking out from there, but did not OFFICIALLY admit how badly he was knocked off. And mention not what happened to this Pragm...Something...Girl-Gal. She was the worst. I don't know if she is taking a time-out from there. I didn't see her in there lately. How bad!! She had been humiliated, I believe. Well, now you know why they are going around, and around in this General page and mentioning about Islam without a referrence to the direct link of the Islam Forum. They know in that Islam Forum, the 'real' players are there. Doing their Dacwa. And I of one of them am proud to be one of them. If you {The Trinity of You} want want the real discussion of Islamic issues, why don't you simply go Islam Forum. No problem how bad you've been beaten, because you will 'save' your souls from a Day when your lips doesn't necessary be needed. In that Day, would you remember regretfully in the Quraanka Kariimka's very own words: "Lest a soul should say: O woe to me! for what I fell short of my duty to Allah, and most surely I was of those who laughed to scorn." {39:56} "And the Book shall be placed, then you will see the guilty fearing from what is in it, and they will say: Ah! woe to us! what a book is this! it does not omit a small one nor a great one, but numbers them (all); and what they had done they shall find present (there); and your Lord does not deal unjustly with anyone." {18:49} Laugh ye know as much as you want for now. But, forget not that Day. But, the one who laughs LAST knows BEST. ____________________ Nabadeey!!
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| | Saturday, February 10, 2001 - 02:19 pm brothers and sisters, i have seen warsame , who came to canada in 1991. he entered canada in buffalo ny. he is a bahai, in somalia he used to live in bangaariyada by the airport. he used work for the bankiga dhexe. he is about fifty. johny jake is not a somali , and please the best response to theis losers is no response to their provocative statements. let's not honor their words.restraints please let's not get mad , just ignore these.
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| | Saturday, February 10, 2001 - 06:28 pm All of you I see that some ppl are confused others are scared by the fact we (non-Muslim Somalis) exist. Others are having difficult time to tell who is who. other ppl still can not digest that we are Somali.... Ilma-adeerayaaloow Soomaali waa isla nahaye laakiin qof walba diintiisa halagu ixtiraamo, waa tan quraanku dhahayee "Lakum diinakum waliya diini" I am proud to be agnostic (non muslim, non Christian non Jews, non atheist etc.) and as I mentioned earlier I like my ppl and my country and I believe that toghether we can build a decent and civilized country. I believe that the diversity is always richness. If you believe otherwise I respect you. Jamiila and Stranger I like your civilized discussions and please keep up the good job. Johhnyjake, Pragmaticgal, Professore, Diirshe, Toore and other non muslims thanks guys for having a courage to stand up for what you believe. All what I want to know was to see if there are non-Muslim Somalis out there. Burhaan, thanks for you contribution. I can see that you are Borderline. Anyway good luck for your faith. If you are interested in agnosticism please let me know, I can help you. Kufaar Killer, Abdifataax,Miskiin Macruuf, 2Pac-Snoogy-DRE, etc......you guys do need a help!!, and please look for it before it is late. May be seeing a psycologist and taking Anti-psychotic medications would be best for you. Somegay ......what bluh, bluh, bluh, bluh suppost be: end-stage of Schizofrenia with negative symptoms !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Man you are there and good luck. Qeyr iyo nabad
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| | Saturday, February 10, 2001 - 08:07 pm Damn! Someone left the door open and all the doggs came running out!!!! Doggs maybe not doggs but hyenas! You guys really represent islam very well. Your behaviors will win over alot of people into SLAM! SLAM BAM THANKYOU MAM! I have never seen such terrible behaviors coming from those who call themselves - MUSLIMS? Yeah I guess it is true what they say about SLAM being the fastest growing religion. All the new converts are coming from the jails and prisons of the world! I would be ashamed to be associated with the likes of you all! YOU ALL ARE THE MOST UGLIEST OF SLAM! YOU ARE Defiantly THE ROTTEN FRUIT OF SLAM!!!!! TO THOSE MUSLIMS WITH THE UGLIEST BEHAVIORS: So hold your heads up high and feel proud of being a muslim because this is how the world sees islam - BY THE UGLIEST MUSLIMS ON EARTH! I cant beleive how you guys go around intimidating women and others. Me myself - I am hardly intimidated by UGLY MUSLIM PUNKS> I will KICK YO A55 from Mecca to Timbuktu!!!!! Beleive that fool! So if you step to me you better step correct or stay in your mosque or jail or wherever you waller around! Because I aint your daddy or your mamma and I dont play with other peoples kids!!!!! Think on that you fools!!!! Iam sorry to show the civilized muslims my ugly side but sometimes you have to fight fire with fire. Because FOOLS RUSH IN TO GET BEAT DOWN! Warsame someone one is telling others within the Somalinet that you and I are corrupting the young muslim minds with our doctrine. I cant beleive it! You stated very clearly in your introduction your goals and objectives. NOw people are saying that minds are being corrupted. Anyway peace to you all.
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| | Saturday, February 10, 2001 - 09:18 pm johnnyjake -what you use to be priest how many children you molestad fag--you sound like christian homosexual..I wonder so many fags becoming christian ...to those christian fags with the ugliest behaviors ...such j-jake you are already the lowest selfsteam on earth...and your Gods will put you to hell ..you worth nothing. Goooooooooooooooo toooooooooo heeeeeeellll pitch .
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| | Sunday, February 11, 2001 - 04:48 am May the peace and blessings of Allah be upon all those that follow the true guidance. Jamiila: Sister, I am sure that you guys have said exactly what I have said... I'm kinda just a little lazy when it comes to reading... especially when I saw over 180 posts! May Allah make me better than what you think, and forgive me for that that you do not know of me. Faaisa: Sister, now that I am actually reading, or, shall I say scanning. I see your point clearly. Thanks for the advice sis. Warsame: Just as you said, "To you be your religion, and to me my religion." (109:6) as well as "There is no compulsion in religion". Just one last thing for ya, "What would Somalia be without Islam?". It is more of a statement than a question! Johnny Jake: For one thing, I see that you do not do any reading either. Nevertheless, if you are going to "type", then you should also be prepared to read as well. (I came anew and took the short cut in asking you guys why you doubted Islam, so that I wouldn't have to read all the above.) Secondly, I find it quite funny that the only way you can attack our religion is by looking at the people. However, when we want to show you the falsehood in your religion, we show it to you from the cornerstone in which your whole religon is based upon, the bible. Yes, that same bible that has been changed/revised over and over again and that contains much contradiction. Oh yes, and that same bible also contains the verse "God's book cannot contain contradicitions" - what irony I must say! Thirdly, in regards to your statement that Islam is the fastest growing religion. Why wouldn't it be? Islam is THE ONLY TRUTH. It isn't only growing in the prison system. It is also the fastest growing religion in the navy, and in the marine. Furthermore, many priest (not the homosexual ones!) and notable have converted to Islam. In addition, more women convert to Islam then men do! That brings us to our fourth point, the position of women in Al-Islaam. Why would non-Muslim women want to convert to a religion of opression? Does that make sense to you? Well, I suppose we have to look at the definitions of opression/liberation/freedom. According to people like you, women are liberated when they "show off their beauty" and become sex objects for men's lustful stares. Hmmmmmmmmm... smell that sense of freedoom and liberty (achoo). In Islam, we value our modesty. That is why WE choose to cover. It was a prescription by non other than The Most High for two main reasons, 1) Protection, and 2) So that they may be known (33:59). Islam is the ONLY religion that liberates women!!! OPEN YOUR EYES!!! WOMEN HAVE ONLY BEEN GIVEN A VOICE HERE (in this corupt society of ours) FOR THE PAST CENTURY. However, are they truly liberated? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. This, will most likely be my last post here, because I do not see the point in doing so if all you are going to do is belittle our religion and talk non-sense. I want to leave you with this: "They are deaf, dumb and blind, so they will not return (to the right path)" (2:18) "They are deaf, dumb and blind, so they do not understand" (2:171) It is only Allah who guides and misguides. He knows His creation best, and knows who deserves His pleasures, blessings, and guidance! Kufaar Killer, Abdifataax,Miskiin Macruuf, 2Pac-Snoogy-DRE: Wallah, I love you guys for the sake of Allah since you guys are Muslims!!! I have much more respect for yall than JJ and Warsame and all those non-Muslims! Nevertheless, brothers, your vocabulary... come on! If we are Muslims, then let us not forget what Allah says, " And the slaves of the Most Beneficent are those who walk on the earth in humility and sedateness, and when the foolish address them (with bad words) they reply back with mild words of gentleness." (25:63) If I have offended anybody, then please do forgive me. If I haven't, then All praise belongs to Allah (the lord of all the prophets from Adam to Abraham to Moses to Jesus to Muhammad (saw). Your sister in Islam!
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| | Sunday, February 11, 2001 - 05:11 am Warxume all and all you just concluded... "Lakum diinakum waliya diini" Bro/sis what ever in between... I agre with you somalis don't like any somali that is deviating from truth... Even though most of us preaching to you are not very aware of the truth completely... Your arquements is point less for even those that know how to Allahu akbar... can use that against you when they see that you are trying to bend their ways..... let them be... you are right... each to his own then!!! Jesus sav you and deliver you in your hour of need... You are not doing anybody any favor cos you are without direction in your arquement......... you prooved that we are not a tolerant people... Ray ray raaaaaaaaaa Comon niger give it up! *********** *********** or i'll have to conclude that you are also a masecist... can't even spell the ••••........ but you are asking for pain.... mental pain...... your agetting high of off it....... REALISE...... if i see any further input from you i'll just have no other choice but to label you... just the same way all have done so far... Go in peace... jesus loves you... goforth and seek a preast... who will give you incrase in your mental awareness... "Lakum diinakum waliya diini" I heard there are a lot of convents near where you live sister... please if you have a problem with somali people and i think i recognise you... you hate the treatment men in your country have given you, don't be angry... go and live your life the way you think it is right... There are no solution to your anger here..... Just remember i was not one of those who contriputed to you pain..... if i did forgive my intervention in this topic....... Long live....."Lakum diinakum waliya diini" Go seek you maker......... "Lakum diinakum waliya diini" "Lakum diinakum waliya diini" "Lakum diinakum waliya diini" salamu calaykum warahmatu llahi wabrakatu
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| | Sunday, February 11, 2001 - 06:56 am johnnyjake: where is the answer to my previous question... it is not the first you dodged a question... i'll paste my question again (so u can run from it again)... johnnyjake you said: "I will not answer foolish questions that is not based (written in Torah, Injel or Quran)example, if the bible says God is 3 in one .... It doesnt say that anywhere so I dont answer those types of questions." what about two gods? since you said that you believe in two gods... your idea about the two gods you believe in is going against the 10 commandments... in one of those commandments god said: "YOU SHALL NOT HAVE OTHER GODS BUT ME" what do you have to say about that... and thanks to the ppl who informed about johnnyjake...that he ran away from the islamic forum...johnnyjake you are so full of doubts about your belief...and wherever you go you run away... so run-johnny-run... i think you've learnt something important from the islamic forum, which is: how to dodge questions... faaisa: i like the advice you gave: "I would suggest you should take the advice the brothers gave you. at least, you should repeat the legitimate questions asked by the Brothers before you continue wortheless discusion with someone who is not answering the basic questions." if we ask the same question, he won't be able to ignore it... and i don't care if he ignores it...as long as he heard...
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| | Sunday, February 11, 2001 - 12:39 pm Dear All! Why pay any attention to this stupid old narrow-minded fool? Can't you see that you feed his insanity and let him step on you guys time after time? Why not just ignore him until he gets tired of talking to himself?
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| | Sunday, February 11, 2001 - 02:50 pm Wisdom: OK Wisdom here is your answer to your question again. By the way if you would scroll up to my earier posts you will learn that your questions have been answered: YOUR QUESTION: "your idea about the two gods you believe in is going against the 10 commandments... in one of those commandments god said: "YOU SHALL NOT HAVE OTHER GODS BUT ME" what do you have to say about that... " MY ANSWER: Ok these scriptures will answer your questions once and for all regarding the role of Jesus. 1 For this Melchiz'edek, king of Salem, priest of the Most High God, met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings and blessed him; 2 and to him Abraham apportioned a tenth part of everything. He is first, by translation of his name, king of righteousness, and then he is also king of Salem, that is, king of peace. 3 He is without father or mother or genealogy, and has neither beginning of days nor end of life, but resembling the Son of God he continues a priest for ever. 4 See how great he is! Abraham the patriarch gave him a tithe of the spoils. But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things that have come, then through the greater and more perfect tent (not made with hands, that is, not of this creation) 12 he entered once for all into the Holy Place, taking not the blood of goats and calves but his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption. 13 Psalms 110:4 - The LORD has sworn and will not change his mind, "You are a priest for ever after the order of Melchiz'edek." Hebrews 5:6 - as he says also in another place, "Thou art a priest for ever, after the order of Melchiz'edek." Wisdom: As you know, anyone who is not an angel cant live forever! Especially in heaven sitting on the right hand of the MOST HIGH GOD. If Melchizedek is without mother of father and has no begining nor end. What do you call a being like that? We call him a God! His job is only to serve the MOST HIGH GOD. Peace and blessings in Jesus's name! Hebrews 5:10 - being designated by God a high priest after the order of Melchiz'edek. Hebrews 6:20 - where Jesus has gone as a forerunner on our behalf, having become a high priest for ever after the order of Melchiz'edek. Hebrews 7:11 - Now if perfection had been attainable through the Levit'ical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need would there have been for another priest to arise after the order of Melchiz'edek, rather than one named after the order of Aaron? Hebrews 7:17 - For it is witnessed of him, "Thou art a priest for ever, after the order of Melchiz'edek."
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| | Sunday, February 11, 2001 - 02:59 pm Brother Warsame and I would like to thank each and everyone one of you for your love and support in making the Non-Muslim Somali discussion area the most popular discussion area on SomaliNet. In these few weeks we have had more input than any other topic area. We are growing faster than islam!!!!! Peace and blessings in Jesus's name!
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| | Sunday, February 11, 2001 - 05:06 pm Oh, JohnnyBOY... See what I mean guys? HOLY S-H-I-T! HEHEHE!
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| | Sunday, February 11, 2001 - 06:06 pm To all non-Muslims may allah almighty guides, sure you are in the wrong path, i hope it is not too late for you to follow the right path. Allah almighty said in the Holly qur'an(the religion befor Allah is Islam(submission to His Will0 Nor did the people of the book dissent therefrom except through envy of each other, after knowledge had come to them. but if any deny the signs of Allah,allah is swift in calling to account)(aal-imraan 2:19). johnnyjake Qur'an is perfect never changed unlike the Bible and Torah.Allah almighty said(Say if the whole of mankind and jinns were to gather together to produce the like of this Qur-an they could not produce the like thereof,even if they backed up each other with help and support)(Al-Israa 88) Allah almighty said(And we have explained to man, in this Qur'an every kind of similitude. Yet the greater part of men refuse(to receive it) except with ingratitude)(al-Isra 89) Allah yahdiikum inahu qaadir. w/salaam
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| | Sunday, February 11, 2001 - 06:21 pm The Non-Muslim Somali section of Somalinet is so popular because we muslims see it as an opportunity to educate those who have gone astray. It is not popular because of non-muslims it is popular because of muslims trying to clear the misconceptions of Islam brought here. johny do you drink beer and eat pork and have pre-marital sex with strangers? Because if you do, you certainly are a diligent christian.
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| | Sunday, February 11, 2001 - 07:29 pm johnnyjake you said: "3 He is without father or mother or genealogy, and has neither beginning of days nor end of life, but resembling the Son of God he continues a priest for ever." wasn't jesus the son of mary... and in some bible it says that jesus was the son of a carpenter called joseph... and don't you believe that jesus died on the cross?... so why are you saying now that he doesn't have a father, nor a mother, he doesn't have a beginning and an ending... full of contradictions... your mouth is killing you man...
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| | Sunday, February 11, 2001 - 07:31 pm by running away from the islam forum you thought you would be safe in the general forum... think again...
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| | Sunday, February 11, 2001 - 10:37 pm Warsame Thanks for inviting me to agnosticism, but I have to tell you that, though I don't agree with most of Somalis about Islam, I am not interested to any other religion and I will stick with Islam in my way and I'm sure I'll be fine. Believe me Somalis (most of them) with any given religion would have had same negative and ugly behavior. So believe don't judge Islam on Somalis because they are ugliest and the most ignorant people on the earth. Look at those who say they are Muslim -Snoogdog, DRA, Tubac, A-te, Maskiinmacruf, Kufaar etc.- I wish I did not share the religion with you. Guys shame on you.
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| | Monday, February 12, 2001 - 01:17 am Buhraan... you are mistaken... You have not learn anything so far. Simple... he who know to say allahu akbar... must use it to defend any attacker of Islam... What are you basing your rightousness on when you see all of us, as ugly, ignorant and unworthy to be muslims... Shame on you... allah[swt] has proven to be the lord of the weak, sick, uneducated and last but not least the most undeserving... Why else would islam a religion that everything in science, philosophy and psycology is based on be sent lastly to a nations such as those we witness in the middle east... common allah[swt] has been the saviour of the weak and misguided and opperessed on earth. ???????? Are we talking of the same allah[swt]??? Allah[swt] of moses... wiped out the pharoahs allah[swt] of dauud... who helped drop a giant with a small stone allah[swt] of Jesus... who raises the dead ??????? Burhaan you are the ugly sister... for you see your own refelection on the screen... not mine... not anyone else... Let me add we are all here to represent the same allah[swt] some of us hypocrite i raise my hand and admite i am one.... but don't.... draw attension to your stupidity and ignorance ok... have some shame... It is hadith to keep your opinion to yourself if you are not too wise... untill you are sure you speak in support of allah[swt] then what ever you say will be accepted in support of your creator... only allah[swt] will accept you stupid comment i'll cuss you down to the ground for it... i know no mercy... child piss off you have angered me.
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| | Monday, February 12, 2001 - 05:27 am a reminder to johnnyjake: don't forget to answer my other question... scroll up and look at my previous messaage...
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| | Monday, February 12, 2001 - 07:53 am Salaams, It is funny how poeple cannot conceal their angar even when they went change their names. Burhaan you did not reply to me. Warsame, Burhan, Toore =Galool. But I do not have any problem withn that. Wisdom, Bro keep up. Aro
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| | Monday, February 12, 2001 - 08:51 am Well I must admit I have been reading everyone's posting and at the end of it have been so overwhelmed that I cant even think of what to write! It is becoming obvious that Jonnyjake is talking jibberish most, if not all, of the time. Wisdom I really admire the amount of knowlege U have but I really do think that Jonnyjake is a lost case simply because he does not have the intelligence to see that anything he is saying makes absolutely no sense! Jonnyjake you know even less about christianity than U know about Islam, I mean U even think that Elijia was a muslim! He was a kufir like U. So looks like U have more in common with him than we do. That is not meant to insult U. Kamal U are absolutely right about this disscussion being fruitless but may Allah bless and reward those who are spending thier time spreading the word of the true religion of Allah, Islam. Wisdom dont waste any more of ur time bro coz it seems that Jonny here is just going round in circles.
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| | Monday, February 12, 2001 - 11:26 am Well, well, what crawled out from under the old rotten log known as faith....... Let me see: everybody who's not a Muslim is apparently homosexual..... makes me wonder how the other 5 billion people in the world procreate. I especially like the e-mail chain letter instigated by the ghost of Muhammed! Gosh I hope all you devout Muslims are sending it to two hundred people RIGHT NOW! Or you'll die, and lose your job. Of course, you'll die anyway, and losing your job is not exactly the end of the world, but remember, you can't THINK, you must OBEY!!!! That's what a good Muslim does: obeys the mumbo-jumbo of any sheik and xaji who overdoses on stimulants and starts hallucinating. Speaking of which, do you all know that it's very easy to start seeing the angel Gabriel and hearing his voice? This is what you do: 1) Be worried about life, anxious about the fate of people, etc. It also helps if you're already very suggestible, and desperate for guidance. 2) Go to an isolated spot. Ideally it should also be dark, and enclosed. 3) Fast. Don't eat much or drink. 4) Pray. That is, chant some words repeatedly or hum 5) Do this for long periods of time. 5) Presto!!! Gabriel talks to you and you only! It's all psychological: The mind plays tricks on us when we are emotional, hungry and alone--especially if your saying things but not paying attention to their meaning (ie, praying). It's been proven again and again that hallucinations are easy to induce in most individuals if they want them enough--and even if they don't. Macruuf-whatever-whatever: You sound like you followed the above instructions to a T, mumbling jibberish about "laughing last" and "beating others". Tell me, how did your ilk--who stopped posting their OWN material because they couldn't think of anything to say--beat me? Seems to me, that all of you (FG, common, ANON) went into hiding, and some dumb idiot keeps pasting material from other (non-Muslim) sources. Or may be it's you who's posting the garbage. I came here--again--because the topic is about non-Muslim Somalis. BTW, it's interesting to note that there are two kinds of Muslim Somalis: the ones who post in the Islam forum (devout Muslims), and the far more numerous ones who post in the "corrupted" General forum (makes me think Somalis are not as religious as I thought) Stranger, Pigs are dirty huh? And how do you know this (your mamma/teacher told you so, right?) And BTW, try putting ANY kind of meat outside for one hour dear! <Thirdly, in regards to your statement that Islam is the fastest growing religion. Why wouldn't it be? Islam is THE ONLY TRUTH. It isn't only growing in the prison system. It is also the fastest growing religion in the navy, and in the marine. Furthermore, many priest (not the homosexual ones!) and notable have converted to Islam.> In prison, in the navy, in the marines (?), and in the priesthood: That's exactly my point! People who need religion are usually the ones who need dominance heirarchies. They tend to join the army, a church, or whatever. They like to be lorded over, and in turn to lord over others... They are exhibiting typical mammalian (particularly primate) behaviour. <In addition, more women convert to Islam then men do!> Yeah, right. In addition, the majority of these conversions: 1) occured when some Christian churches were suffering changes 2) Don't last long: a poll recently showed that the majority of women who change religions go back to their parents' faith...
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| | Monday, February 12, 2001 - 11:33 am Finally some smart words! Fruitless. Applause to you Sistah-X! Let old JohnnyBOY crawl around in circles!!!
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| | Monday, February 12, 2001 - 02:14 pm Kamal Bro I am sorry to tell you that you make no sense to me. I know you wish you could shoot at me or even kill me with primitive Muslim way, I mean with a big stone. I am glad that I share nothing with you,------ yes bro I'll be Muslim the way I want to, non the way you wish I would be. About Islam ---- Allah doesn't need a Lawyer----especially non you who is dumb and empty------ who cannot even tell wether Burhaan is Male or Female. Next time before you post your message please read it first and my be 20 times cuz you don't even know what you are talking about. Sometimes you seem that you copy and paste what others have just said. Anonymous Please first get a nickname and then you could ask me the question that you have claimed (which one?)but I have never seen it. Please next time don't write Burhaan = Anonymous. Lol. Se voui ti posso anche prestare unpo' di cervello per sapere chi sono. Bimbo non te la prendere, take it easy Ciao Burhaan
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| | Monday, February 12, 2001 - 06:59 pm Peace and blessings to you all in the name of Jesus! I really like reading your inputs when there is general respect for one another. Afterall, we are not making atom bombs here - it aint that serious! Bro wisdom, your question has been answered if you need more info go to church! I think that we all need to be able to express our thoughts, feelings, etc,etc without intimidation or threats. It is not the content that should be important in this forum but the freedom to express whats in your heart. I felt ashamed to say that muslim women seemed to be brain washed. I tried to see their logic when they defend their beleives but it just seems so unfair to me. It is like asking someone who just put their hand in fire if it hurts having the skin burned off and they tell you no it doesnt hurt. So it is not my business and I will not mention anything about it. However, I beleive it is better to have a religion and not need it then to need a religion and not have it. My reason for debate is this: the foundation of islam is the torah and injel. These 2 works are the foundation of my beleive system also, however, the Quran differs. What is written in the Quran negates, to a large extent not just what the prophets has written but also what GOD HIMSELF has commanded. I got a problem with that! Many Moslems say that the Torah and the Injel are corrupted but when I look at the corruption that they speak of is all content base and spelling/math etc etc. However when God makes statements in both Torah and Injel it is verbatim - no 3rd party writers. Then I asked moslems who wrote the Quran and I was told that the illeterate-Ishmaelite prophet Mohammed memorized it - both the Torah and the Injel. He memorized it and spoke it to others who wrote it down. My question was: if he could memorize all the books in the Torah and the Injel why couldnt he memorize how to write? All other Israelite prophets from Moses to the Aposltes could read and write - but not the Ishmaelite prophet? I look at it like this, I was not born during the time of any corruption of any books; therefore I have to go by what I have as truth. Someone would have to be a complete fool to tamper with any books in the Torah or the Injel after reading the following statement: 22:18 " For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. 22:20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. " It seems like if someone would tamper with these books they would have taken these statements out. Why do I think Islam is not the true word of God? MY REASONS: The Quran negates what God Himself has commanded (see my earier posts above for details) God states that HE will destroy the tongue of the Egyptian sea (arabic) So if arabic is not spoken then the Quran will not be used. I know many of you will argue Corruption! But those are my reasons and I am sure you have yours. Anyway like I stated before, each person is responsible for his/her own salvation. You dont have to let the gang or group pressure you into deciding anything. You are in charge of yourself!!!!! Peace and blessings in Jesus' name!
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| | Monday, February 12, 2001 - 08:13 pm johnnyjake u said: "I think that we all need to be able to express our thoughts, feelings, etc,etc without intimidation or threats. It is not the content that should be important in this forum but the freedom to express whats in your heart." now you changes the topic into freedom of speech...you couldn't answer the questions and now you are saying that the content is not important...wake up...that is another way of changing the topic... in here it is the content that is important... you said: "Many Moslems say that the Torah and the Injel are corrupted but when I look at the corruption that they speak of is all content base and spelling/math etc etc. However when God makes statements in both Torah and Injel it is verbatim - no 3rd party writers." what do you have to say about the so many versions of the bible...are you telling me that the only difference between bibles is the spelling etc...you are very wrong in that...better take that statement back...you know and i know that there are new versions and updates of the bible being printed as we speak... and don't say that the only difference between them is the spelling... and here is your biggest lie: "Then I asked moslems who wrote the Quran and I was told that the illeterate-Ishmaelite prophet Mohammed memorized it - both the Torah and the Injel. He memorized it and spoke it to others who wrote it down. My question was: if he could memorize all the books in the Torah and the Injel why couldnt he memorize how to write? All other Israelite prophets from Moses to the Aposltes could read and write - but not the Ishmaelite prophet?" Mohammed(peace be upon him) never memorized any of the scriptures revealed by God before...he was an illiterate...the quran was revealed to him like God revealed scriptures to his other prophets...the message is the same message...the stories in the scriptures are the same stories... i'll prove to you that you are ignorant and a liar: first of all go ask any one...Mohammed didn't know anything about the scriptures revealed by God before the quran was revealed to him...the stories of the prophets before him are revealed to him in the quran... and if Mohammed (saw) knew how to read and write ppl would say that he read the scriptures before him and memorized them(just like what you are saying now)...but the fact that he couldn't read or write doesn't allow them to say that... just ask yourself how could an illeterate memorize anything? and the fact that he was illeterate proves that there is no way he could have come across those scriptures... johnnyjake, you are against the fact that the bible have been tampered with by people... how do you explain for the so many versions of the bible... you said before that the trinity is something that doesn't exist... what about the bibles that have trinity in them... haven't they been tampered with?... let is not even bring the quran into this, you don't even believe in it... you beieve in two gods...and you have a bible about two gods (let just say that for argument sake)...and you are saying that jesus was preaching that there are two gods...one is him and the other is another god... and you know the message revealed to moses only talks about one God, the only creator etc. so the message revealed to moses is different than the one revealed to jesus...if that is so, then the two messages are not from the same god... so how can you say that the quran goes against the torah and injel and that the quran is false... the quran is also false, based on what? on the torah and the bible (will be your answer) but the torah and the bible are going against each other too... since now of them are exactly alike, how do you know which one is right and which one is wrong of the three? here is an important question: IF YOU BELIEVE THAT THE TORAH AND THE BIBLE ARE SIMILAR AND THEY HAVEN'T BEEN TAMPERED WITH, THEN WHY ARE THE JEWS AND THE CHRISTIANS TOTALLY DIFFERENT? answer that question and the next message i post will be based on your answer ...
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| | Monday, February 12, 2001 - 10:23 pm JOHNNYBOY, man, you're biting your own tail now! What's up with you?? First you talk like a mad man, then back to the lamb's role again.... Why so mentally unstable?? Are you shizofren or what?? You claim to be an "Israelite", a very relative word indeed, coz as you explained to me with your own words earlier; "It's not a jew - but a wanna be"  Now, Mr. Wanna Be, you're not a Non-Muslim Somali neither, so what are you doing in this forum anyway?? Are you a "wanna be" here too?? A hypocrite?? If not, then hold your tongue, grab your own precious BIBLE and READ it for ONCE! Matthew, 6:5-6. It's right there, in dry ink; And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the HYPOCRITES are: for they LOVE to PRAY STANDING in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be SEEN BY MEN. Verily I say to you, They have their reward. BUT THOU, when thou prayest, ENTER into thy CLOSET, and when thou hast SHUT thy DOOR, PRAY to thy FATHER who is IN SECRET; and thy FATHER who SEETH IN SECRET shall REWARD thee OPENLY. So please, do me a favour, SHUT UP, crawl back to into your closet and shut the door (I can lock it for you ), KEEP QUIET, and you will get your reward!! AMEN!
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| | Tuesday, February 13, 2001 - 12:11 am bismillah i never thought 'd see the day where the somali youth would question islam! What has happen d here! Gaaladii ayaa mskaxda idika badalshay miyaa! Y'll have been brain washed and some stupis psycgology ayaa idinsoo baray and thought u can practise it out!! What i have notices is that this guy has totally forgotton i;aahi dhamaa ee abuuray! but it is reyu yawmal qiyaamha ayuun baad garan what i got 2 ay now is ilaahay ha ku soo hadeeyo
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| | Tuesday, February 13, 2001 - 04:24 am BISMILAHI-RAHMANI-RAHEEM SALAMA-ALAYCUM 2 MY MUSLIM BROTHERS & SISTERS FIRST OF ALL WE WOULD LIKE TO SAY "MY ALLAH (SWT)REWARD U FOR WHAT U SAID" !!! FOR UR EFFORTS!!!!! 1 JAMIILA 2 SIRRUS 3 ISSA 4 SURREAL MAY "ALLAH" HELP WHO-EVER STARTED THIS TOPIC!!!! "JAZAKALALLAHKHIR"
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| | Tuesday, February 13, 2001 - 06:22 pm Peace and blessings in the name of Jesus! "First Hey folks, do you know if you forbid yourselves things that Allah (s.w) has made it Hallal for us, you'll be punished and may go to hell. So be careful of what you doing, don't just do whatever you see western people doing, we've religion and Koran to flow!! I think it's permissible if you've illneses or severe cases that wouldn't allow you to eat meat. However, am sure many amnong us know more than I do, and can kindly enlighten us about this issue." of all the talk about brain-washed muslims! The above state is a muslims' response on being a vegetarian. Wisdom: Have you heard this verse before? ...thou are like Aaron unto me... (Mohammed refering to Ali) I asked muslims how did Mohammed learn the Torah and they said it was revealed to him and he memorized both Torah and Injel. Now is that true or not? Your question who is Mary? Mary is the woman that Jesus came through. If you read my earier postings you would read ...the blood of oxen and cattle thou enjoy it not...but a BODY has thou prepared for me...This is Jesus talking to the Most High God. A body was made for Jesus and planted into Mary. Jesus came to earth as a sin offering for all mankind. His purpose was to come to earth as a man to die, stay in the grave for 3 days and 3 nights (like Jonan staying in the belly of the whale for 3 days and 3 nights) and rise as a new being. Rising as the first born of the dead the adopted Son of God. Jesus became God's begotten Son after raising from the grave. Your final Question: "IF YOU BELIEVE THAT THE TORAH AND THE BIBLE ARE SIMILAR AND THEY HAVEN'T BEEN TAMPERED WITH, THEN WHY ARE THE JEWS AND THE CHRISTIANS TOTALLY DIFFERENT? " The religions of Judahism and Christianity are different because God never gave Christianity to the Roman Catholic Church nor did HE give HIS word to Edomites (Eaus decentdants) who calm to be jews but are not but do lie. See the following: "Revelation 2:9 - "'I know your tribulation and your poverty (but you are rich) and the slander of those who say that they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan." "Revelation 3:9 - Behold, I will make those of the synagogue of Satan who say that they are Jews and are not, but lie--behold, I will make them come and bow down before your feet, and learn that I have loved you" This will give you an idea of how others have taken over the religion of the Israelites. When Jesus returns in the DAY OF BATTLE he will gather all of Israel from all corners of the earth. Peace and blessings in the name of Jesus!
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| | Tuesday, February 13, 2001 - 06:29 pm ATTENTION ALL: THIS IS MY LAST POSTING IN THIS FORUM. I LIKE TO THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR PARTICIPATION AND YOUR POSTINGS. PEACE AND BLESSINGS AND TRUTH TO YOU ALL!
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| | Tuesday, February 13, 2001 - 08:02 pm ru-johnny-run what is so special about jews?
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| | Wednesday, February 14, 2001 - 03:04 pm THIS DISCUSSION IS CLOSED!
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| | Thursday, February 15, 2001 - 06:55 am Ofcource this is your last posting you idiot-you ran out of the garbage that you've been spewing throughout this discussion.
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| | Thursday, February 15, 2001 - 01:23 pm the answer to the last question proves that the scriptures before have been tampered with. you can't say the y haven't been tampered with. run johnny run. like you always do. you ran away from the islam forum you ran away from the general forum what is next? the qabiil forum i bet you'll run away from there too
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| | Thursday, February 15, 2001 - 11:45 pm !Case Closed!
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| | Friday, February 16, 2001 - 06:05 am .
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