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     | Monday, February 19, 2001 - 05:50 am i probably think yu guys have talked about this but my head spinned when i saw a report on cloning....a fertility centre in Kentucky and french group will be the first trying to come up with human clone within three years...the money going into projects are from private donors...do yu think man should interfere with how humans are made....do the clones have a soul.....and before yu say what kind of question is this....imagine this one could actually reproduce the likes of hitler by using his DNA strands...the extracted DNA is inserted into female egg whose genetic material has been removed...the question lies...since the DNA is from dead person...would the clone have a soul...? what's more scary is turning cloning into industry where athletes, famous people, etc are reproduced and nurtured......would this effect the belief system of the human and return to the PAGAN times where everything goes..? share your views peace
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| | Monday, February 19, 2001 - 06:20 am The very process of human cloning is an exercise in dehumanization. Cloning negates the inviolability of the human body, intrudes on the genetic ecosystem, and, most worrisome, forecloses genetic variability. It reinforces the values of genetic determinism, threatening individuality and diversity through identical replication. The Quranic paradigm of human creation, which holds that the entire life cycle of the body is a Divine act, seems to preempt any move toward cloning. peace
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| | Monday, February 19, 2001 - 06:21 am Yankee, this is a really strange issue that has been playing in my mind for some time. You know they are not really "creating" a new being, after all they are using oringinal human stuff right? like a human cell, or a human hair strand? Well I think they probably do have souls, I mean only god can create things, they may be a clone of that person, but they ARE NOT that person. Well that is all I have to say since I dont know too much about genentic rproduction.
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| | Monday, February 19, 2001 - 09:47 am Ok... I think the problem here is that we have not really understood the potential of genetic engineering.To me its the medicine of the 21st century and no matter how you oppose it, it will progress and prosper. The biggest misconception about g.e is that (u think) it will give sceintists the power to make more hitlers, blah blah... This isn’t true. Cloning technology can only produce a cloned embryo. The embryo must develop in a uterus. The developed child must experience childhood and adolescence. People think that a clone will be both behaviorally and physically identical to its donor. This also isn’t true. The clone will probably be identical physically, but not behaviorally. Genes contribute to the array of our abilities and limits, but our behavior and mentality is constantly shaped by enviromental factors. Even identical twins show differences in behavioral and mental characteristics. Someone trying to clone a future Adolf Hitler might instead produce a modestly talented painter. Numerous of remarkable benefits can come from cloning technology. One of these is a treatment for infertility.Cloning technology can help 'perfect' gene therapy,the actual correction or replacement of defective gene sequences(if u need me to elaborate on this, I will). Ethical implications involved in human cloning is only temporary. This can be shown in the development of In Vitro Fertilization(IVF). During the 1960s & 1970s, oponents of IVF argued that it was unsafe, children would be deformed, American families would be destroyed or changed, and it was against God’s will. These are the same arguments being used against human cloning. Eighty-five percent of Americans thought IVF should be outlawed during the 1970s. Public opinion changed when they saw Louie Brown, the first child born using IVF. People noticed that he was just a child. Their fears of IVF subsided. It became a routine medical procedure within a few years. This will most likely be the case. Cloning occurs naturally in many species on earth, including humans. The definition of a clone is 'a genetic duplicate of a person or creature'. By this definition, any creature that asexually reproduces creates a clone every time it reproduces. It clones itself over and over. Also included in this definition of a clone are identical twins. Therefore, any creature, including humans, that is capable of giving birth to identical twins is a natural, biological cloning apparatus. Cloning is a normal phenomenon that occurs in nature. Secondly, we cannot clone a personality or a person's beliefs. Also, we cannot clone a person's memory, which means that the idea that cloning would allow a person to live forever is incorrect. Last of all, clones are not produced in glass jars or any other artificial device.
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| | Monday, February 19, 2001 - 10:18 am iam not so much worried about the process it-self but the potentail abuse that come with it and degrading factors that would accompany it...i know it is asexual reproduction of the same being just like micro-organisms go through mitosis...but whose to say Hitler and Saddams won't be reproduced....any private organisation can legally clone a human and also keep him/her in a controlled enviroment where they could stimulate his\her brain according to their philosophy...sure genetics defects could be corrected....but after how many trails....call me crazy if yu want but i consider an embryo a human in the process of formation....how many embryo's do yu think will be discarded before the right one with no defects is chosen to be the clone......sure a child only grows in his mom's womb....but what do yu think is gonna stop the next generation trying to "create" or develop human by artificial means.....where do yu draw the line....the risks are far more greater than the benefits....this could be de-humanization of the human race.
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| | Monday, February 19, 2001 - 07:57 pm I love you Somali-Yankee loooool. You are one of a kind...I love the way you express yourself with such clarity and prestige. I just wish there were more Somali brothers' out there like you but hey what can I say life's a bitch then ya die lol. Keep up the good work.Warlord signing off lol.
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| | Tuesday, February 20, 2001 - 01:44 am Obviously you must have gone blind to make such a statement or you haven't been yet released from the mental institute that you've been for the last 10 yrs. There are infact many intelligent brotha's in this forum, they just don't associate with you.
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| | Tuesday, February 20, 2001 - 07:23 am lol I love your sense of humor lol. I could come back with an insult but I figured why waste my time?. Anyway I'm just speaking in general because I haven't seen a Somali Man that I find to be intelligent...I'm not saying there aren't any.Most of the Men of I've seen are at Donut shops' same thing with the younger ones' it's just a complete disgrace.Anyway I hope you don't find anything I said offensive because that wasn't my intention. Take care.
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| | Tuesday, February 20, 2001 - 07:35 am hay wazzup....girl...thankx for da copmliments...yu are one of few people in the forum that i admire even though we mightn't see things the same way...i love your critism though, for much of it speaks the truth....and i can see it already won you many " friends" lol...keep it sista....much love. peace
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| | Tuesday, February 20, 2001 - 07:57 am That's it, that's what pisses me off-"in general." You don't have to come back with an insult, you've already done enough by making such generalizations. To say that I, a somali bro who takes himself to BE intelligent, should be categorized with all the idiots you happen to associate with is definately a dis. I will not give you the discourtesy of calling you a fool-but then, what's MY opinion against thousands of others? adieu
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| | Tuesday, February 20, 2001 - 08:06 am Somali yankee: I must say i am very much impressed with ur rather unusual topics....congrates.. now that is that....lol.. Coming back to the topic.. I really don't think u should be scarred of human cloning... I know.. Islam....doesn't support much of what is being explored. INspite of all the religious believes... I really do support cloning.. b/c I believe its a test to the human boundaries...Come on... lets think for a while...if it wasn't for science... we won't be where we r today.. Talking about soulless creatures... well.. that is something we can never know... I don't want to sound like... a christian....but I believe in science... n i support pushing of human limits...to the extremes.. Allah said in his Quran... humans...can do many of the impossibles.. Actually Man is not playing the role of God when he is cloning.. he would have if he tried to create life....from scratch.. but he is using pre existing tissues to evolve newer beings.. that is just mockery of life.....to me all this is a pure bash!
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| | Tuesday, February 20, 2001 - 08:16 am Hibo that is called progress.Allah gave us the the ability to progress.As you said,cloning is only a result of already existing tissues and membranes.Enlightenment.
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| | Tuesday, February 20, 2001 - 08:25 am war naga tag jaahil yahoow iyo jaahilad yahay. Cloning waa saan iyo saan....•••• buu sameenaayaaaka fiican kaaga uraya,,iyo ••• weeyn oo ka fiican kaaga yar ee caatada ah, Ilaaheyy ilaaheeey,,ilaaheeey uun bey afka heeyaaan xaaraaaanta doofaaradda ah,, Aan idin waso kuligiin sidaa u dhantihiin nin iyo naag ba,,futada ayaan jeclahayeee. H a iska urto laakiin waa isbuunyo markuu galo guska,,urkana macno ma leh waa iga meereeysaa markaaan kaa dhameesto,,kaalaya guskeeyga aan idin ku clone gareeye wooooooooooooooooooooof Fools are agreeing to what they dont even understand. Criticism isnt the way u have thought it to be anymore. Anyway get life fuckers and losers. Cloning is just another impossible mission in life. Go and clone a complete human being without using the human body. these fuckers dont have brains to think. nacalad baa tihiin sidaa u dhantihiin
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| | Tuesday, February 20, 2001 - 08:26 am I am sorry for my dirty words. oppologies in advance.
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| | Tuesday, February 20, 2001 - 08:27 am lol cannot you read in between the lines’!!!!. I said I have not seen any intelligent Somali brother "I" is the keyword. That comment in no way discredits' your intelligence. Yes there are allot of intellectual brothers' who come on the forum but I haven't seen any of them in real life have I? That is all i am trying to say. It is more common to see those losers' I spoke of earlier but it would be great to actually see a smart intelligent brother for a change.
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| | Tuesday, February 20, 2001 - 08:29 am cannot=can't sorry for the Inconvenience
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| | Tuesday, February 20, 2001 - 12:11 pm hmmmm...Obviously you haven't met me. Well, back to cloning: it's closer than you guys may think. I happen to know someone who knows someone who knows somone who goes to University with this guy who happens to be in this cult in Quebec. This cult, or religious group, what ever you want to call the damn thing, is in the works to come out with the first human clone in three to six months. And man, they've already got the potential surrigate mothers down to 5! And there's more: This guy wants to clone his dead mother and raise her as his own child! I'm getting a copyright on my genes-and if you happen to clone me, you're facing a class action suit, let me tell ya.
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| | Tuesday, February 20, 2001 - 01:50 pm Man the good thing about cloning outweighs its many negative reasoning. I would love to see Somalis coming to their senses that our believe system is not in fact a practical one but only through our spirit'uality'. So far the score is 1 for science and 0 for Allah. (but it only half-time)
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| | Tuesday, February 20, 2001 - 05:19 pm Hibo, I solute you sweet sis. YANKEE REMINDS ME OF ME, 7 years ago. He just opened his first books and OH my god he can't not believe his eyes. They can actually clone humans being, Oh god you mean, man kind is "playing god". What could I do what could I do.... Yankee let me help with your dilemma. Everything we do is unethical. If god wanted us to fly he would have given us wings. If he wanted us talk across 1000 miles, he would have given us in build pschic sense. But he didn't and for the last 500 years we "Humans" accomplished alot. So don't be surprised or alarmed my dear brotha, just listen to these smart people here, you might learn alot...
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| | Wednesday, February 21, 2001 - 03:20 am the guy who wrote things in somali....you stop using my freaking nickname....if you have something to say....use your own nick...don't behind somebody's name....i hate these freaks. Hibo..abaa..lol iam not really against cloning but yu gotta admit people can use for all sorts of things....i don't think it can't be supervised and controlled.....there are many sick people in this world...there is a room for abuse. Sirus...lol...my friend i know what humans are capable of....when i see somalis dissing other somalis...this is what i use to tell my friends...never understimate a human....everyone is capable of doing something...anyway iam not alarmed and just interested how it will turn out..!! peace
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| | Wednesday, February 21, 2001 - 03:21 am the guy who wrote things in somali....you stop using my freaking nickname....if you have something to say....use your own nick...don't hide behind somebody's name....i hate these freaks. Hibo..abaa..lol iam not really against cloning but yu gotta admit people can use for all sorts of things....i don't think it can't be supervised and controlled.....there are many sick people in this world...there is a room for abuse. Sirus...lol...my friend i know what humans are capable of....when i see somalis dissing other somalis...this is what i use to tell my friends...never understimate a human....everyone is capable of doing something...anyway iam not alarmed and just interested how it will turn out..!! peace
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| | Wednesday, February 21, 2001 - 10:46 am cloning human and creating are totally different things. cloning is a form of manipulation, not a creation. so people please hold your horses in reaching conclusions about this procedure. as all of you are aware of there is no contradiction between science and islam. and there will never be. let me know when a scientist synthesizes protiens and other organic substances to create a cell ,with complete dna,and then culture it in a lab to make a human being out of it. peace and love
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| | Wednesday, February 21, 2001 - 09:03 pm Only God can create!!!!!!!!!!
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| | Thursday, February 22, 2001 - 11:27 am Freak Science: Istaaqfurulaah.......Do u honestly know what u just said.... If I were u..... I wouldd turn to Allah...Almighty & beg for forgiveness... Dambi baad gashay! Somali Yankee: lol... @ ... abaa.. weli ma na dabo socotaa...lol.. Are yaar....If I was given a choice walaahi.. I would donate my cells...for cloning.. Imagine having another Hibo running around....lol.. boy that would be tight... I mess the world.. n blame it on her....lol.. I am having the humor of my life.. bro.. through science.. so I salute the thing!.....lol..
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| | Thursday, February 22, 2001 - 11:40 pm Namaste jee...abaa...lol...having many female cousins....i guess i get used to the Abaa word....so iam not to be blamed...anyway i think it would be cooler to have onether Hibo not mention another somal-Yankee with his "Abaa" flow...well i guess iam too idealistic or maybe i can't keep with the change....or it could be New-york...the place is full of everything and it can drive yu nuts...just one question-How's aging process gonna be in the clones...i think trails with animals prove that they age faster...? Peace n much love 
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| | Friday, February 23, 2001 - 04:18 am Hiboloooooooooool Please we can't have two Hibo's lol Kidding. Personally i would not want another Basra in existance.I will no longer feel unique,special,sophisicated,charming,intellectual,beautiful and rare.A Duplicate? No wayyyy. loool
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| | Saturday, February 24, 2001 - 11:34 am iam infatuated with somali sisters, like hibo ,and basra. they seem to be very uducated. i wonder though if they are the younger generation.because the older sisters never gotten the apportunity to go to school. the yankee's topic is interesting, so are the responses of the decent people here. nothing wrong exchanching ideas, and thoughts. love you dearly people. bye
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| | Saturday, February 24, 2001 - 06:21 pm Basra: i know deep inside u r like..." yes... we r getting another piece of her" Well sorry sis... u ain't....lol.. Maxaa is mahdiyey dheh!!......  Sheekh: thnx for the flattery....though ur nick has some offensiveness to it!!
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| | Saturday, February 24, 2001 - 06:31 pm Basra: i know deep inside u r like..." yes... we r getting another piece of her" Well sorry sis... u ain't....lol.. Maxaa is mahdiyey dheh!!...... Sheekh: thnx for the flattery....though ur nick has some offensity to it!!
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| | Sunday, February 25, 2001 - 01:29 pm dear hibo, i apologize if my nickname offended you. there was actualy a very famous man back in somalia in the good old days . it was an apportunity to honor him. if you don't believe me , ask any one that's a bit older , and that lived in xamar . peace n love sis
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| | Sunday, February 25, 2001 - 01:48 pm My God, you all (girls!) sound so brainless with your loooooooooooooooool's and immature ........ wayyyyyy........ of talking! Hibo, what are all these........'s??? Your empty brain working overtime??? Who on earth may want to clone you, huh!?? Not a chance in hell! How can you clone a Brainless Black Bimbo, eh?? What an empty world it would be, heheh!!!!
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| | Sunday, February 25, 2001 - 01:50 pm Sheekh.... to honor him ma xumee... muxu taray.....?? Pls..enlighten me... I am known to credit whoever deserves it...so pls... tell me...what this sheekh...with the big.. testicles... sorry..but that is what sheeloweyne is...did for humanity... that he gets to be honored??... Its curiousity..nothing personal!
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| | Sunday, February 25, 2001 - 03:20 pm .......................................hard work!
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| | Sunday, February 25, 2001 - 04:18 pm dear sis hibo, sheikh cabdi sheelaweyne was a street comedian. basically he used to stand at the ceel gaab bus stop, and people would gather around him , and listen to his funny jokes. nothing serious sis, just one of the things that remind me of the good old days. it's a nostalgic feeling that i get when i remember him ,and other litte things. i hope i answered your question. peace n love dear sis
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| | Sunday, February 25, 2001 - 04:54 pm sheikh u sure that wasn't your father? A street homeless father who tells jokes for a nickle is not an embarrasment dear lol
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| | Monday, February 26, 2001 - 11:14 am Anonymous: You're so pathetic. Sheikh cabdi: I think I remember the comedian--Not! But I feel nostalgic too, sometimes. Hey, does anybody remember those sweet potatoes that used to be spiced and limed and sold on the street....hmmmm, yum! Somali-Yankee: Fear not. Like Sirrus said, if we spend a lot of time worrying about what God allows us to do, we would still be staring at the wheel and worrying if Allah meant us to travel in such an unnatural way . I think that there are many problems with cloning--and bioethics will have to be revamped in this century, because someone is gonna clone a human being soon--but genetic engineering in general has many health benefits. You only have to read Nature in the wake of the hype about the (near) completion of the human genome project to realize that the 21st century will be the biotechnology century. Akius: <Only God can create!!!> But scientists predict that within the next couple of decades, a functioning virus will be created "from scratch". Next will be a simple bacterium, then onto eukaryotes. Trust me, humans will also "create". But I am sure Muslims will continue to change the goalposts, each time saying, "Ah, but only God can..." hey anybody interested in discussing all things biology can e-mail me at pragmaticgal@hotmail.com
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| | Monday, February 26, 2001 - 03:09 pm Sheekh: We all miss home bro....though I don't have much of a memory...but my heart will always be at Home... Anon: Its very shameful of u to insult his father....deal with him...on individual basis/... leave parents out....ur being pathetic! Pragmatic: lol....we believe in God , that is why we say only God can create...n there is a name of God...which can kind of covers all... " Al Khaliq".. everheard of it...meaning.." Creator"..only Him can create. They may claim they have created a creature from scratch bro...but if u observe it well... u will realize they haven't...that is just my two cents.. I am no biologist...but I know enough to satisfy my cuiousity!!
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| | Tuesday, February 27, 2001 - 11:22 am it's sheikh again, well cloning is a form of manipulation. no one is synthesizing the genetic info in a lab. the cells are taking from an existing donor sheep or animalx. so no creation is done. god gave humans the knowledge. calama al insaana maalam yaclam. , but as he said in another ayah, if i parapharase it ,if you claim to be god, then create a fly .by the way iam not a wadaad by no means. seriously. iam a comedian wanna be. case closed.
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| | Wednesday, February 28, 2001 - 08:21 am Pragmatical....just little...Humans can't create anything...we just discover and re-invent what's alreay there...a sexual reproduction of any organism is a natural...the fact remians creation is only associated with God..we only expirement and manipulate...and before you jupm on my bandwagon i have done my research on this and i say it with clarity and no confession.
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| | Wednesday, February 28, 2001 - 08:22 am correction...i meant confusion
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| | Wednesday, February 28, 2001 - 10:20 am After much thought, I've finally come to a conclusion on this subject. Well first of all, i just want to say that the capability of genetically altering humans along with cloning will be the most amazing discovery of mankind. But then, you take into account, ethics, as my good friend pragmaticgal said. However, if you guys think that helping humans to the best of our abilities is unethical, why do we have medicine? Why do you take penicillin and antibiotics to heal yourself? If you take ethics out of the picture for a second and just consider the possibilities, you might understand why scientists have chosen to take a giant step into helping mankind. We would be able to heal diseases simply by changing the chromosomes. The blind would see. The mute would be able to hear. The mentally disabled would be cured. The paralyzed would be able to walk.T here are so manyadvantages of genetic engineering and cloning that it would take forever to list. But then one thinks, what if this capability fell into the wrong hands? What if some psycho decided to alter everyone into and create an army of cloned killing machines. Then, we would be in big trouble. The matter at hand is not if genetic engineering or cloning is ethical, but rather how much protection we could give it so that it wont fall into the wrong hands. Take medicine, marijuana was once a type of medicine to cure the ill. Today, most have outlawed it since it usually falls into the wrong hands leading to what everyone knows. Lets hope that the gene splicing capability won't fall into the same hands, but considering the same has happened in the past, no one can be sure. Can we take the risk? I dont know. At one end of the spectrum stands millions of people with uncurable diseases-the "benefactors". On the other side stands hundreds and thousands of psychopathic lunatics who would take this into their own hands and possibly create a race of serial killers. The future is a scary thought. We can't stop the advancement of genetic engineering. Soon, it WILL be possible to heal those with diseases, soon, it WILL be possible to clone. The only thing we can do is hope that the government can protect this technology from these psychos. Simply put, ethics doesn't matter anymore. Genetic engineering will become a reality, even if millions go against it. What we have to be concerned about is the safety of billions. adios.
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