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     | Monday, April 02, 2001 - 04:35 pm Being a human being carries with it certain duties and obligations that foster order and tranquility among the diverse populace that live on earth. These duties and obligations are sometimes expressed and enacted as law by most societies who expect all their members to comply with these common laws for the general interst of the individuals as well as the whole society. However violators ussually face certain stiff penalties as a reward for their deviation from these societal norms. Of course conflicts are likely to arise where there is human interaction,and ussually these conflicts are solved in a more traditional way compared to the prevalent modern style of conflict resolutions. Conflicts arise in many aspects of human life. There is the culprit on the other side however who is always seeking to benifit from the conflict. He thus aims as his principal purpose ways and methods of exagerating the conflict. Conflicts can take many forms. As an illustration, verbal argumant is often the simplest and often the most common type of conflict where an idividual disagrees with what one writer or person says. However, the mere disagreement with a point of view doesnt warrant one nor does it justify one to overstep the line of mutual respect and delve into issues that arent pertinet to the main issue or the point that has been disagreed with. Amongst the somali society who ussually gather here , a new trend can be observed that is termed as "moral degeneration". This new attitude stems from the fact that many somalis are dissatisfied with the present state of their lives, needless to say the fact that there are many studies carried out by international research agencies which indicate that somalis are really losing touch with their roots while at the same time, they fail to identify themselves with any of the so-called western culture. Bourne(1999, vol 1, p234) in his book about the lost generation, argues that "It is a unique phenomenon never observed in the history of mankind that Somalia today is a nation with a conflicting and often bizzare identity". The truth of these statements can only be appreciated by those with a keen sense of somali history and its present day situation. Every society ineherits values and traditions from its predecessors. Bourne concluded that "amongst the somalis in the west, none has been observed that indicate that somali cultural values are being passed to its new generation". Worse still is the difficulty somalis have with western culture, namelly lack of integration with their host culture. In other words, Bourne's argument imply that a new culture different from its old is flourishing wich doesnt have anything to do with its host-western culture. This is still a theory and history will tell the essence of it. Bourne is rather aiming for a far more worse purpose than what his paper aims to serve, namely the presentation and introduction of certain value ladden judgements that. All his arguments are based on a random sample that doesnt reflect even a quarter of somali population. He failed to distinguish the disparaties in his data and thus he reached a conclusion that is not warranted by his premises. His research paper howver opens up a new world od doubts and suspicions that are hard to verify. He chose ambiguities thus clouding and impairing his judgement. This is not to be construed as a mere dissatisfaction with the man's work, But to just open up a scholarly debate amongst somali people whether what this writer argues is really is true. Is there a new culture? please do share with us your respected point of view.
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| | Monday, April 02, 2001 - 07:37 pm i have never read the mans work but will try soon.
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| | Monday, April 02, 2001 - 07:44 pm Liberal thinker Your obsession of potraying yourself as a scholary intelligent person,hinges your chances of being perceived as one;thus i urge you brother,to be explicit on your subject and what you want to convey,rather than mixing incoherent words with an ambiguos attempt to construct a debate!
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| | Tuesday, April 03, 2001 - 01:41 am LaDyVerona I do understand your anger and frustration. It is all too clear that you are one of these sect who always love out of a habit to criticize what they consider as smart presentation of purely a rather shcolarly intelligence which far exceeds yours. I am sorry to say that it does bother me to see such a wonderful lady making unjustfied character-related accusations that have absolutely nothing significant of any nature at all. Anyway. A wise man once said.." a blank empty brain makes noises that disturb the tranquility"..no wonder your empty noisy blatant worthless unscholarly conduct. I have been ready really to meet characters like you here and somewhere else to observe them and look into their conduct. You areny even worth a criticism indeed. Look at the nonsense useless highlights u posted. In furtherance of what? Your re-assertion of what you consider hostile takeover. what a terrible mistaken attitude! keep making emty noises, i will be obliged to just ignore you as a non existent entity in space. shame on ye so long,,,,
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| | Tuesday, April 03, 2001 - 01:54 am common stop talking to your self bowy how vain can you get? I mean are somali people affraid to hold a simple depate with you or what? I personaly can't stand any thing said using more then 3 paragraphs. In your case you don't seem to understand the importance of paragraphs! Your work is nothing more then verbal ejeculation on your computer monitor... stop jerking off!
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| | Tuesday, April 03, 2001 - 04:02 am LAdyVerona, I could agree more. rather than copying a whole text book be concise to point your are trying to utter.........
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| | Tuesday, April 03, 2001 - 07:07 am LiberalThinker I enjoyed your piece regardless of what the others might have said. I am doing a report on "Conflicts in Blue Chip Companies" and although U are merely diverting your emphasis on conflicts as a whole.....I say it is brilliant. People this is a GENERAL FORUM, if U haven't noticed yet. If the brother wants to say something allow him. He hasn't stepped on anyones dacas.And as far as I can see he hasn't used vulgar or profanity. So live and let live. Kapishe If U have nothing to bring to the party......Simply don't come LadyVerona If U think U can put together something interesting for all to read.......By all means sis....Please do..... PEACE
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| | Tuesday, April 03, 2001 - 07:23 am Liberal thinker I was not angry brother.Dont mistake a sound critism as an anger.I did not insult you nor did i present myself ill.I was merely commenting on your article;a natural critical observation.I only said you were over-using words in your article that do not relate to the sentence of meaning you are trying to pass.Forgive me for speaking my mind,bare in mind,the moment you set forth your article on a public forum you have automaticaly relinquished the privilages of reserving privacy to your work.I hope in the future i could find a way to adopt wayts to communicate to you without appearing offensive.
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| | Tuesday, April 03, 2001 - 08:43 am Hey peeps give the man a break (I think he really tried) however it seems he does not understand the old TRICK of "how to get a group of people attention without being bored". I am not trying to be wise Mr Liberal but my advise to you "to get to point by using least most simple words possible" because really the point is to get your opinion ACROSS. Like my man Literal Police said the importance of paragraphs really matters in this website.... ps: I liked the fact you realized the Author of the book does not really know 90% of the problem
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| | Tuesday, April 03, 2001 - 09:14 am uxummm ..excuse me sir? you want us to do your essay homework or what?
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| | Tuesday, April 03, 2001 - 09:14 am uxummm ..excuse me sir? you want us to do your essay homework or what?
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| | Tuesday, April 03, 2001 - 09:27 am plagerisms work mann nothin else..........hey the thing is if you wanna get through to people you talk in a mannor that's understandable all i understand about this is that this guy just talks alot of gibberish or he's plagerizing some philosophers work.......................;this is crap in it's pure form ...........run and don't turn back my point it stated this is a waste of time i hope you understand
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| | Tuesday, April 03, 2001 - 10:05 am I haven't got enough time to take part in this discusion but allow me to say that your topic is clear and understandable. However, it seems quite intricate to see your point of view. By this I mean it's not clear if you're trying to advocate the person you're refering to or you just put it as a matter of debate. Anyhow, cultures evolve as time changes but it's absolutely absurd to argue that Somalis are completely loosing truck with thier roots as history never told a trend like that before. You have to quistion how did he go about his reseach? What sample is it based on? What Western Area, city did he carried out his reseach? What are the comparisons with other groups? Sometimes what you see is not what it seems and not finding Somali integration with their hosts has to be explained. As I could have presented a historical trend of cultur assimilation and identity crisis, I'm not going too much into this now so I'll see what you make of the above questions.
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| | Tuesday, April 03, 2001 - 03:51 pm i've couple of points to make. First: people who are complaing that Liberalthinker wrote a lot need to check the topic and understand it before they "click it"and then criticize it. The topic reads "Scholarly Debate". People, what does tell us?. Of course, it tell us at least most of the postings will be long and there will be a lot quotes .I hope you get i am trying to say here. Besides why would anyone of us like to control how much one can write?. Why we not just scan or even don't bother to read unless it is a posting where the writer and we, personally, are engaged a heavy debate. Thanks to Somalinet folks for giving us freedom of expression. Anyway why we like to control others when we don't like to be controled?. my second point goes to LiberalThinker: man, in my opinion your attack of LadyVerona was absolutely uncalled for. And i guess, she was right up to a point. Looks like your agruement is not oganized. Your start was excellent. But guess what? it was all about "conflict". Then at one point, you flipped the chanels and wrote people who came here are suffering "moral degeneration". Then you started somalis when in west losing their culture while they are not taking the culture of their host country. From there, you told us some white dude who wrote a paper. Not only that you also put your opinion in there--saying he was wrong!!!!. finally, you ended up asking us "Is there new culture"?. You already answered this question two times. And guess what, your two answers are contradicting to each other. first one: " Amongst the somali society who ussually gather here , a new trend can be observed that is termed as "moral degeneration". This new attitude stems from the fact that many somalis are dissatisfied with the present state of their lives, needless to say the fact that there are many studies carried out by international research agencies which indicate that somalis are really losing touch with their roots while at the same time, they fail to identify themselves with any of the so-called western culture." Here you are saying there is new culture somalis developed. Second one: "All his arguments are based on a random sample that doesnt reflect even a quarter of somali population. He failed to distinguish the disparaties in his data and thus he reached a conclusion that is not warranted by his premises". Here you disagree the writer which means you are saying there is new culture. LiberalThinker, i urge you to look back what wrote down before getting angery and tell us what your arguement is all about. Is it "conflict"? is it about somali scholars debatint on "Is there new culture", or is it about proving that white dude's reseach paper was right? which is it?. I am not scholar but what i was taught in college writing was you state your topic in your first sentence and end up concluding your first statement praphrased. And as LadyVerona told you if you aired your two cents and called "scholarly debate" why then are getting such that angery???.Don't get mad, get reason instead. Alipapa
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| | Tuesday, April 03, 2001 - 04:05 pm What you all talking about? The Lady there expressed herself eloquently and very articulative.I concurr with her findings of liberal thinker's incomprehendable piece.Liberal thinker,stop using too much fragmentation and unnecessary words that dont go with your sensetences .
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| | Tuesday, April 03, 2001 - 05:26 pm What is lacking in this argument is that you guys in N.America are brainwashed to accept human-nature from the capitalist perspective. This is classical liberalism defining the role of the individual and h/her interaction with other individuals. In many societies in this world, where their cultures were not contaminated by Europeans, they are totally in contrast with European individualism philosophy with its analysis of human-nature. Wake-up N.American Somalis.
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| | Tuesday, April 03, 2001 - 05:32 pm LiberalThinker, yes there is a new culture or should I say cultures. On the one hand you have the Arabiazation of the Somali people. Somalis, in their attempt to adhere and practice their relgion and going way beyond by imitating the Arabs. Cse in points are the new name adopted by Somalis: Umu-salaam, Abu-Xamza, Anas etc etc, and the garb worn by Somali women. All over the world across nationalities there are muslims from China, Former USSR, certains parts of Central Europe, Australia, Latin America West and Southern Africa, you have muslims all over, have you seen a Chinese or a Venzulan changing his name to Abu-khalid etc? have you seen a Turkish, a Pakistani or a Hispanic muslim dressing like an Arab?? On the other hand of this culture crisis, you have the 'ghettozing' of somali Youth. a lost genration who think it is hip to do drugs,abuse substance and imitate the dress code of the ghetto; baggy, loud cheap and exposed skin. Yep, we are haveing a major cultural crisis, cause no one is talking about the perils of assimilating into a culture that is not indegenous to your kind.
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| | Thursday, April 05, 2001 - 02:13 pm looool@Ladyverona liberal we know you are intelligent aboow.loool Ali papa Finaly i can say i understand you.I dont know which part of that long paragraph made me comprehend you more.Can't figure.loool
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