     Abdi | Saturday, July 22, 2000 - 10:57 am
It is a bygone conclusion the there will be a "government" supposedlly for Somalia when the Djibouti Conference comes to an end. In this regard the question of recongnition of such unrepresentative government will arise. Will the government be recognised by Somalis as their representative government? Will the international community recognise it as the legitimate government of Somalia? In coming to decision about this two questions the said "government" must satisfy the creteria for recognition. The criteria of recognition of a government include
1) whether such government has the control of the country with which it claims to represent especially the capital of the country (Not a cotroversial/provisional Capital), control over security of citizens, control over the economy e.g. collection of taxes and revenues
2) whether such a government can be legally bound on international agreements on behalf of the country at all times whether now or in future.
Now the questions is does the government that will result in Djibouti be recognised? |
| AliPapa | Saturday, July 22, 2000 - 07:15 pm
And my question to you is Do you accept if the said "goverment" calls to come home you to serve your country?.
You seem more stupid than the average ali on Hargeysa street. I hate when i see some self-styled panalist trying to be lary King. Boy !listen up to me, you moron. You gotta be stopping this non sense and making this high standard to this goverment that is yet to come. We don't need perfectionist here. And for your info, in the third world--specially Africa some goverments don't have control all over the country they claim to govern, forget citizen's safety and collecting revenue.
And about recognizion, just ask yourself. Will you recognize it?. if you do, then the damn international community will otherwise it won't.
AliPapa |
| Elmi | Sunday, July 23, 2000 - 04:24 am
Somalia does not need a government that generates revenues nor does it need government that is concerned with the implementation of information technology. According to statistics, the Somali population is now evenly divided or little over 50% support the peace initiative. Therefore, the successfulness of the so called Somali Peace Conference in Djibouti is directly proportional to the credibility of the members of the government and how far these members are from the notorious regime of Siyad Bare. For example, "Isaaqs" who support the peace conference will never support if some notorious criminals like "Gabyow, Gani or Morgan" is included in the government. "Digel & Mirifle" will not support if well-known criminal who massacred people in "Baidhabo" is included and so on since every tribe has one whom they don't like. The question is how clean the government will be?. I think before this government looks for international recognition they should concentrate more in internal affairs. They must win the majority of the population to get recognition otherwise we will fail. I personally support whichever government that is formed no matter who is included or excluded but the inside population it really matters to them and its crucial that government distance it self from Siyad Bare regime or notorious criminals. |
| Abdi | Sunday, July 23, 2000 - 05:09 am
Thanks Alipapa and Elmi for your contribution. |
| caafi | Monday, July 24, 2000 - 02:10 am
Alipapa
Can you tell us the reason why you personally attaching Abdi? in my view he asked fair question, after all he is entitle to air his opinion. why call him names?
Man you sound like Afwey's sychophants, I hope you are not trying to get your old job back, by doing the same thing for Mr gelle. Don't you know every somali is entitle to question the credibility of this conference and its outcome. |
| qaalid | Monday, July 24, 2000 - 02:46 am
i think Elmi has good point here. i argee with him 100%. only clean goverment will all get the majority of the population. |
| Omaros1 | Monday, July 24, 2000 - 10:56 pm
Nothing will happen, this conference is another excuse to travel and burn other people’s cash, so don’t expect a government that last.
I have been in one of this meeting, in the morning and the afternoon they build something and in the evening with some khat they destroy what they did the day before, grouping between themselves.
As I said just an excuse to eat bisteki and pasta saltada talk talk and chew khat, that is our life.
RE-COLONIZE Somalia is the only solution we are wasting time you don’t get juice out of a rock, nine years of civil unrest are difficult to forget specially if their where proceeded by years of dictatorship.
Alipapa don’t attack people point of view is unfair.
I have started a forum on re-colonization give me your point of view there. |
| dadevilgirl | Tuesday, July 25, 2000 - 10:07 am
Ali papa
I fail to see the reason for personal attack on abdi.The guy expressed his vi=ews and personally i think,judging from your reactions ofcourse,you are more stupid than the average ali walking in alipapa or ali baba streets.I'm not judgin you by the color of your skin but the color of your brain.lololo.its dark and ignorant.
abdi..you are sweet. |
| Alipapa | Tuesday, July 25, 2000 - 02:51 pm
Yo! bastards!
I am surprised big time by the facts that you all got the gutts of taking piece of me. And i am equally disgusted by the facts that all of you, born bastards, failed to see where i am coming from.
Go back what Abdi wrote and tell me what you see. If you couldn't read the damn english, i feel sorry for your mothers. Here is what Abdi did.
He,the damn Abdi, made big expectation from the unborn goverment. he said to be legitimate:
a)-- the goverment should give has control all of the country that it governs.
b)--It should guarantees the saftety of its citizens.
c)--It should have the abiltiy of collecting the tax and revenue.
So you idiots tell me does all legitimate goverments can do that? did former siyad regime could tha even 1970s? does kenya can guarntee the safety of its citizens when eveyday the "shift" kill and robe somali kenyan in the northen east?
Does uganda has it too when LORD' Resistance Army
kill and loot the ugandans in the North?. Does Sudan has it?. ..and the list go on but i guess you see what i am trying to say.
Then why any sane person would expect a newly and very fragile government to be able to do that?.
Any short sighed person can see if there will be goverment from Djabuit reconciliation, it will be very weak one.
Does Abdi think the new goverment will be like the ones in the west where he lives?. And then what Abdi and his likes will do if the said "government" won't meet expectation?.
It is clear to any blind person that Abdi and his Lary King friends will criticize and crash the frgile govement since he is pessemistic.
And here where i was coming from. We don't need perfectionist morons. We need any somali person support the fragile government. And then the goverment can improve it inch by inch. We don't need big mouthed bastards who only criticize and destroy what we get in hardship. to criticize it easy and free. there is no cost involved. It olny needs one should to open his/her big mouth. And that is it KA !BOOOM BANG!
see ya born idiots.
Alipapa |
| Caafi | Wednesday, July 26, 2000 - 02:26 am
Alipapa
You are very emotional man, I think your best interest is to stay away from talking about politics. I have not read a place where Abdi said we want a government similar to that of Kenya, Uganda and other places you mentioned.
All he did was outline some of the principles which make a group of people the government of a country. And if that upsets you to extent of calling everyone the names used, I don't know how you can rationally talk about politics. You also said, "We need any somali person support the fragile government." Well, that is where you wrong again. We still haven't got fragile government. but there is a conference going on in other country where people are talking of forming transitional government for somalia. we don't have to support until we satisfied with the constitution and the integrity of the individuals who going to lead. Would you personally support if the same people who ruin the country in the first place were made honourable members of the new government.? |
| Abdi | Wednesday, July 26, 2000 - 02:35 am
Asalaam calaykum
Alipapa,
Without the reverting to unmeaningful insults, It would be more appropriate for you to put your point of view on the issue being discussed that you seem to feel strongly about. In that regard however, you seem to admit my point that indeed the unrepresentative government that is being made in Djibouti will have little or NO control of the country it claims to be governing. Indeed using your own examples of recognised governments like Uganda, Sudan and kenya what they all have in common is they control their capitals unlike the unrepresentative government which wants to move the capital to Baidoa. While the said recognised governments above collect revenue and taxes, it remains to be seen if and whether ordinary Somali citizens would be willing to pay to such unrepresentative government which is heavily manifested by the same old technocrats from siyaad's regime. On the issue of security, anyone to assume that such unrepresentative government would have any control of the country's security or that it would bring peace with its failure to include warring political parties and the inclusion of former atrocious generals and colonels who have blood in their hands as their advisors is an illusion. How on hell would anyone expect any one to trust such people to run their own lives? It is highly unlikely for any right thinking country to sponsor such unrepresentative government which would be anything but a parasite as it would depend on 100% of its revenue from foreign donors beacause of luck of recognition within the country.
Alipapa, brother like any other somali citizen I place high hopes on the resolution of somalia's problems on Allah and also on the coming together of genuine representation of different interests of different societies within the country not on hand-picked Yes-men who are bend on forming "A government" come what may, which brings back injustice and corruption that people fought agianst in the first place. |
| dadevilgirl | Wednesday, July 26, 2000 - 03:15 am
alipapa
Again....i still think you are stupid and ignorant.Hey your english speakst for thyself....take your dellussions facts of...rage to anger management programs...it could boost your comprehession skills.and stop threatening people with your imagined..strentgh...we are not afraid of ya coward big boy picture.We'll just call 911..lol...lol. |
| Somalilander | Thursday, July 27, 2000 - 06:46 am
HEY I AM A SOMALILANDER, AND AS FAR AS IM CONCERN STUFF THE DJIBOUTI PEACE TALKS, WE ARE DOING FINE WITHOUT ANYBODYS HELP THX. AS FOR THE SOUTH HOW CAN U HAVE MURDERERS REPRESENTING U ANYWAYZ?. IT'S BECAME QUIET CLEAR WHY DJIBOUTI WANTS THIS ANYWAY KNOW THEY HAVE APPLYED FOR MONEY FROM THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY WHICH WAS THEIR INTENSION IN THE FIRST PLACE... SOMALIA CAN ONLY RE-UNITE WHEN BOTH THE SOUTH AND NORTH ARE WELL ORGANISED.. THATZ IN 8 YEARS TIME...
U KNOW IT MAKES SENSE!!! |
| Alipapa | Thursday, July 27, 2000 - 06:55 pm
Abdi wrote:
"and also on the coming together of genuine representation of different interests of different societies within the country not on hand-picked Yes-men who are bend on forming "A government" come what may, which brings back injustice and corruption that people fought agianst in the first place.".
..and his little cousin and of course another bastard, Caafi wrote:
"Would you personally support if the same people who ruin the country in the first place were made honourable members of the new government.?
..and 1993 an interview Ali mahdi Ma'med said" Hadaan ogaan laheyn in sidaas wax noqonayaan, maba asaasney USC, dagaalna lama galneyn ina Siyaad".
...and every newspaper i read, i see same words which reads something like " this reconciliation is the last chance to reconcile somalis fighting factions".
to them, they aren't supporting if Djabuti conference shouldn't produce the kind of goverment that better than Siyad Barre regime.
and to me if there would be a goverment 100%even worst than Siyad Regime , i will support 100%.
and by now it should be crystal clear that those bastards and I live in completely different planet. And for that reason, i guess, i, big man Alipapa, shouldn't being wasting any more time on those little bastards who are enjoying some other people's country and have no idea what somalis in somalia are going throught. I say let idiocity reigns and stupidity takes over your small heads since i can't help it.
However, personally, i fed up, got tired and sick of some somali bastards proned to negativity. Whenever two some somalis try to put their thoughts to work of bring two somali persons, there should some bastards shouting on the top on his lungs saying all those negative on their idea. Those bastards wouldn't be ashamed of pridicting the outcome of the other people's ideas."hey don't you know mr/mrs so and so tried before you and couldn't get it" is what always expect those big mouthed bastards.Or you will hear "hey if your idea wouldn't 100% perfect, it won't effective. so don't waste your time".Those big-mouthed bastards offer no economical contributions, no ideal contributions , no emotional one to those who daring to take risks. Worst of all they can't keep their negativity to themselves and spare others from disappointment and discouragement.
and that is why we don't have any creative people. We are just followers who always afraid of to fail if they try to be iniatives.we carry a lot of fear from negative criticism.We follow what others do since we afraid of failure.And i am afraid there wouldn't any change soon long as those negative proned and perfectionists are here bitching and screaming all those negative energy.
Alipapa |
| Caafi | Thursday, July 27, 2000 - 11:42 pm
Alipapa
Judging from your writing here, you have no brain of your own. You just follow what others say. Just because Ali mahadi said what you wrote and the silly newspapers you read said this is the last chance for somalia, you think we are doomed if fail to do what Mr Ghelle wants? Grow up man! Beside I don't want waste much time debating with you, because a man who uses Ali mahadi's words as reference is not worth talking to. Go and take your emotions to someone who listens to Ali mahadi and his likes……. |
| Abdi | Friday, July 28, 2000 - 04:14 am
Asalaam calaykum
Alipapa,
For your information I would like to see a prosperous Somalia on its feet. Although you have made it a habit to resort in use of derogatory language in trying to put across you point of view, I think that is your own problem but as a brother I wouldn't hesitate to advice you to mend your ways. I am getting the impression that you believe that Somalia’s problems started with the fall of Siyaad's regime, in which my advice would be for you to ask your next of kin. Speaking from my own experience I didn't leave for a foreign country at the fall of Siyaad's government but much earlier when him and his cronies were in power similarly thousands of people were refugees in foreign soil 30, 20yrs ago. So the fact that you saw the problem just in the last ten years makes me wonder, were you the guys implementing Siyaad’s persecution programmes prior to the last ten years such that, you were blinded to see the suffering we went through during that period and now believe it is FINE to bring back those Siyaad's technocrats back?
Recognising any government for Somalia is not a decision to be taken lightly and the yardstick to measure whether such government deserves recognition is what the topic is about. The resulting effect on giving recognition to a government that has its roots deeply in Siyaad’s regime is not beyond imagination (If you have brains which I highly doubt when I read this on what you wrote above, “and to me if there would be a goverment 100%even worst than Siyad Regime , i will support 100%.”). |
