Dr.Galbeyte, regarding your [deleted] thread.

[Jeffrey Dahmer]

You opened a thread about some historical perspective written by a Raxanweyn who asserts that Mareexaan were behind the triangle of death and inquires another Raxanweyn for verification?

The MAIN source of the triangle of death was based on Caydiid's miscalculation. He thought he could prevent Mareexaan from returning to Xamar by cutting off the food supplies, but instead starved the innocent Raxanweyns.

Robert Rotberg writes in "State Failure and State Weakness in a Time of Terror" the following about this (see screenshots):

"Mohammed Hassan Farah Aideed was certainly one of the most resolute warlords. He was selected by his subclan, the Hawiye Habr Gidr, because of his military background and resolute personality. Resigning his post as Somali ambassador to India in 1988, Aideed returned to Somalia, where he built a military force manned primiarly by destitute Hawiye nomands living in the central region, which at the time was suffering from the harsh effects of a prolonged drought. Galkaacyo, the capital of that region, was Aideed's hometown. Using weapons mostly captured from the Somalia military, he gathered his horde and marched on the national capital. Once the battles of Somalia and central Somalia were won, he established his force in the southern section of the capital city in the homes abandoned by leaders, administrators, and business people associated with the former government. Many of the veterans of his successful campaign married or returned to their families; to replenish his forces. Aideed drew upon the largely landless, homeless, and deprived young herdsmen, who had no families in the city. To ensure their loyalty, the enterpising commander provided them both a cause of periodic rewards of loot and shelter. The young soldiers, or moryaan, subsisted on raids and "protection" money paid by businessmen. Many were hired by members of the international humanitarian community to provide security. Partially armored vehicles, mostly Toyota landcruisers converted into gun carries, were turned out by the dozen in Aideed's garage, and these were leased to the moryaan to make their protective role more convincing.

On a strategic level, Aideed needed to ensure that no one would return to Mogadishu to reclaim homes and possessions allocated to Aideed's commanders and loyalists. When the international humanitarian community discovered the desperate situation of the IDP camps in the "triangle of death", they found that it was Aideed who had cut the supply of food to those camps. The penury of the camps' inhabitants, mostly composed of women and children who belonged to Siad Barre's officials, as well as local Rahanweyn oppoenents, was essential to Aideed. It ensured that in their weakened condition, they would not be able to return to Mogadishu. Aideed and his allies did not plan on foreign military intervention to provide food to the families of the losers in Mogadishu's civil strife. closing the warehouses to the humanitarian community and allowing the people in the camps to starve was a serious miscalculation on Aideed's part. "


http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u111 ... ideed1.jpg

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u111 ... ideed2.jpg

[Shirib]

Mareehaan burnt the crops and started the famine

Aideed refused to allow any food to reach them continuing it.

Thats the truth at the end of the day

[Jeffrey Dahmer]

[quote="Shirib"]Mareehaan burnt the crops and started the famine

Aideed refused to allow any food to reach them continuing it.

Thats the truth at the end of the day[/quote]

Burning the crops was a revengery reaction, it did not initate the famine. The famine started when Caydiid witheld the food aid meant for them and used it as a weapon to control the massess.

[Shirib]

[quote="Jeffrey Dahmer"][quote="Shirib"]Mareehaan burnt the crops and started the famine

Aideed refused to allow any food to reach them continuing it.

Thats the truth at the end of the day[/quote]

Burning the crops was a revengery reaction, it did not initate the famine. The famine started when Caydiid witheld the food aid meant for them and used it as a weapon to control the massess.[/quote]


If the crops weren't burned down there would be no need for food aid, so it initiated the famine.

The starvation was their before the food agencies came, thats why they came because people were starving to death because some folks burnt all the crops down.

[QansaGabeyle]

Subxanallah USC killed 500,000 people. That is just pure evil.

[Jeffrey Dahmer]

[quote="Shirib"]If the crops weren't burned down there would be no need for food aid, so it initiated the famine.

The starvation was their before the food agencies came, thats why they came because people were starving to death because some folks burnt all the crops down.[/quote]

Not exactly, food-aid was already there and has already been there since forever, as Somalia has always depended on it before they were indepedent.

Remember, the famine occured in end 1992 and not before as the dropping the aid supplies at Somalia's ports went with ease . However, Caydiid thought after Xamar and several other cities fell to him that he could withold the food aid for strategic purposes but instead it developed in to a a massive man-made famine. This is why the Americans decided to use cargo planes to drop the food aid and not ships.

Again, as Robert Rotberg writes in "State Failure and State Weakness in a Time of Terror":

"On a strategic level, Aideed needed to ensure that no one would return to Mogadishu to reclaim homes and possessions allocated to Aideed's commanders and loyalists. When the international humanitarian community discovered the desperate situation of the IDP camps in the "triangle of death", they found that it was Aideed who had cut the supply of food to those camps. The penury of the camps' inhabitants, mostly composed of women and children who belonged to Siad Barre's officials, as well as local Rahanweyn oppoenents, was essential to Aideed. It ensured that in their weakened condition, they would not be able to return to Mogadishu. Aideed and his allies did not plan on foreign military intervention to provide food to the families of the losers in Mogadishu's civil strife. closing the warehouses to the humanitarian community and allowing the people in the camps to starve was a serious miscalculation on Aideed's part."

[Shirib]

I'm not saying Aideed didn't make the starvation massive because he did, but your brushing off sayin Mareehaan had nothing to do with it, when they did.

You don't burn the crops down their is no famine period. The food was available in Somalia there wasn't much food aid going on then, just some to displaced people not massive starvation because all the crops got burnt down.

Excerpt From Martin Meredith's book the Fate of Africa

"In the south Siyad and Aideed fought for control of the Digil-Mirifleh region, a fertile agricultural belt lying between the Jubba and Shebelle rivers that served as a breadbasket of southern Somalia. Twice Siyad's forces advanced through Digil-Mirifleh in attempt to take Mogadishu, plundering grain stores and live stock, burning villages, murdering and raping as they went. Twice Siyad was beaten back, escaping into exile in 1992, leaving behind a region wracked by famine and starvation."

[Jeffrey Dahmer]

[quote="Shirib"]I'm not saying Aideed didn't make the starvation massive because he did, but your brushing off sayin Mareehaan had nothing to do with it, when they did.

You don't burn the crops down their is no famine period. The food was available in Somalia there wasn't much food aid going on then, just some to displaced people not massive starvation because all the crops got burnt down.

Excerpt From Martin Meredith's book the Fate of Africa

"In the south Siyad and Aideed fought for control of the Digil-Mirifleh region, a fertile agricultural belt lying between the Jubba and Shebelle rivers that served as a breadbasket of southern Somalia. Twice Siyad's forces advanced through Digil-Mirifleh in attempt to take Mogadishu, plundering grain stores and live stock, burning villages, murdering and raping as they went. Twice Siyad was beaten back, escaping into exile in 1992, leaving behind a region wracked by famine and starvation."[/quote]

lol @ M S Barre burning the crops pre-1992. M S Barre had nothing to do with burning of any crops. He wasn't in the country at that time. The crops, which shouldn't have happend, was revengery reaction by the Mareexaan for the past attacks by the Raxanweyn.

However, due the ongoing flow of food aid, no Somalia ever starved prior to 1991, whether they experienced drought or burning of crops because the food aid ensured that no famine occured.

What prompted the US to intervene was the deliberate hold placed on the food-aid ships on the dock, hence the quotation. Burning crops does not create famine, cutting of the food supply line does.

Another quotation from PBS' coverage states:
"In the fighting between the two most powerful factions, helmed by Aidid and Mahdi, food was used as a weapon. As a result, a widespread famine devastated the region.

"Roads were held by gangs, supplies had been cut off to farmers, and food shipments were not getting through," Samatar said. "[The famine] was not natural, but created by Aidid."

By the way, the starvation was not only limited to Bay and Bakool regions, there was a mass-starvation going in Banadir region when Caydiid and Cali Mahdi ceased the ongoing humanitarian support as a political strategy.

This is a times news' excerpt quoting a Western diplomat around the time Caydiid passed away:

"Mohamed Farrah Aidid may have died a hero to his fanatical supporters. But famine, death and social chaos will be his only real bequest to Somalia's long-suffering people. "He always wanted everything," said the diplomat. "His unwillingness to compromise made it impossible to work out any agreement. He was determined to be king, even if it meant destroying the kingdom."

[Shirib]

[quote="Jeffrey Dahmer"] M S Barre burning the crops pre-1992. M S Barre had nothing to do with burning of any crops. He wasn't in the country at that time. The crops, which shouldn't have happend, was revengery reaction by the Mareexaan for the past attacks by the Raxanweyn.[/quote]

I know Mohamed Siad Barre didn't burn the crops. I think he's reffering to forces loyal to Siad Barre rather then the man himself.

We can agree on the second part, and I'll take that the crops shouldn't have been burned as revenge.

At the end of the day Aideed probably had the bigger hand in the famine because if he didn't use the food as a weapon and allowed the food to reach the people who needed it as you stated.

Granted that all I was trying to say earlier was that if the crops weren't burnt to begin with there wouldn't be a huge need for food aid.

Regardless its done with and I hope it is never repeated again.

[Dr.Galbeyte.]

JD the reply is appreciated. This is the response i was seeking.

After examining your sources.. There is place where it says "Mohammed hassan farah Aidiid.
Where did they get the Hassan from?

Intresting view points being exchanged there.

sida ragga haloo doodo.