Somali Bantus: Slaves or Migrants?

[Mckuus]

I do believe South Somalia's natives were Bantus.

Somalis came in recently, displaced them.

Reason is Bantus strech from the Zulus in South Africa to the Giriama in Lamu (somali broder) thus since south Somalia has the same vegetation and conditions as its bordering regions then we come to beleive that they did actually settle all the way past Barawe and into Shabelle regions.

Somalis are pastrolists and always avoided dense vegetation as this would have adverse effects on their livestck due to this conditions being conducive to pests and diseases.

They are not native to Somalia. Anthropologists have studied the Bantu migration very well. There is ample evidence that the founding Bantu population was an agricultural group who lived somewhere along the Benue River in what is now eastern Nigeria and western Cameroon. They experienced an agricultural revolution around 2,000 BC; their new crops and agricultural techniques gave the ancestors of the Bantus advantages over the hunter-gatherers of Central, Eastern, and Southern Africa (like the Khoisan etc), eventually replacing or marginalizing all the indigenous populations in those countries.

The Bantu expansion reached Lake Victoria only by the first century AD. I am not sure if Somali speakers were already present in South Somalia by then, but surely other Cushitic speakers lived there prior to the arrival of Bantus in Kenya.

The question is whether the modern day Bantus in Somalia are all descendants of slaves OR if many of them could be natural migrants?

If we look at an ethnic map of Kenya we can see that the Mijikenda live along the coast of Kenya:



Isn’t it possible that some Mijekenda following the South Somali rivers in search for new agricultural land ended up in Somalia?

Mostly slaves.

The Arab slave trade occurred for 700 years and most of the Somali Bantu are from this event, especially the ones who have completely lost semblance of their old languages and cultures and completely speak May May or have become part of the Digle and Mirifle clan. A lot of this group has also reproduced with a lot of the interreverine peoples who are considered "Samaale" chief of all the Abgaal and the Surur of Madarkicis. This group is generally can be well found from Hiiraan and even into Ethiopia on the Shabelle river up to Afgooye. A majority of these are today situated in the Shabeelle area and in Baidoa and in Marka and Mogadishu.

Then there are the Somali bantu imported into the country by the British following the Mahdi revolution in northern Sudan. A lot of conscripted Nubians were brought to Somalia and this group resides primarily around the Jilib and Jamaame area. They are more nilotic than Bantu but darker with more Sudan-like features. They are probably the group as most devout Islamically as the Somali and the only classification of the Somali bantu that is free from mixing Islam with earlier form of pre-Islamic culture. They compromise the majority of the Somali bantu in the lower Jubba area and in the city of Kismaayo.

Then there are the recent Somali bantus imported into the country by the Italians to farm the plantations nomadic Somalis would not. These are the Somali bantus that were exchanged from Tanzania and Mozambique. They are still very much aware of their homeland and culture and classify themselves even individually into their former tribal group whether Mushunguli, Zigwe, Yawa, etc. They are the least Somalized and least adapted to the Islamic religion. They also harbor the greatest enmity for Somalis and are the majority of the Somali bantu that fled the civil war and were brought to Somalia.

Interesting, I never heard of Nilote Sudanese imports to Somalia! Thanks for your input.

[Archerr]

majority, i would say about 90 percent, of them are neither. they are natives of the land. somali faradheer encroached their land. the only places they lived in were on the banks of the rivers before the cities were created as they are farmers and can't survive in the wide open desert like the faradheer can. they still for the most live on the banks from the river. the munye on the tana river. the goobwein on the jubba river etc.

[The_Patriot]

V if you look at the terraine it is very simmilar infact from the Shabelle all the way to South Africa i.e across the coastal strip they have the simmilar environment/weather etc .

Thus if a Giriama is not a slave in Mombasa but a native ,so would the majority of Bantuus in Somalia.

Thus there might have been slaves damped in South Somalia but I wouldnt say they compromise the majority of the Bantu population in somalia.

I think Bantus are native to the riverine regions in somali inhabited regions.

[Warsan_Star_Muslimah]

Patriot,

If Somalis were established in Mogadishu 900 years ago, then I suspect they were there well before that time, migration and settling takes time. I would say we Somalis lived there since the time of our beloved Prophet Muhammed (may peace and blessing be upon him).

In any case what Mckuus said, apparently they are from as far as Nigeria.

In any case, surely if you are surrounded in fertile areas and you can sustain a large/growing population, you could reach the 1 million mark? The Somali Bantus have being living in Somalia for hundreds of years, not everyone is repulsed in getting physical, and I mean that in many ways.

[The_Patriot]

Patriot,

If Somalis were established in Mogadishu 900 years ago, then I suspect they were there well before that time, migration and settling takes time. I would say we Somalis lived there since the time of our beloved Prophet Muhammed (may peace and blessing be upon him).

In any case what Mckuus said, apparently they are from as far as Nigeria.

In any case, surely if you are surrounded in fertile areas and you can sustain a large/growing population, you could reach the 1 million mark? The Somali Bantus have being living in Somalia for hundreds of years, not everyone is repulsed in getting physical, and I mean that in many ways.

Seems like you never read my comments even if somalis have lived in the region for close to a millenia and a 1/2 . The bantus have lived in the region for several milenia.

Thus Somalis would be a recent migration.

[Voltage]

majority, i would say about 90 percent, of them are neither. they are natives of the land. somali faradheer encroached their land. the only places they lived in were on the banks of the rivers before the cities were created as they are farmers and can't survive in the wide open desert like the faradheer can. they still for the most live on the banks from the river. the munye on the tana river. the goobwein on the jubba river etc.

Not the case at all Qansa. Both linguistic as well as genetic as well as historical evidence points otherwise. Bantus never dispersed into the Horn of Africa and if Somalis slowly moved south encroaching they would have removed the Bantu from the riverine area as they had moved the Oromo from southern Somalia and of a mythical Bantu from the NFD. If there is a wave, the wave would need to have been clear. It isn't. The fact that is a prominent group within the territory of the movement speaks of an unnatural hand in the mixture. Let's stick to science bro and no supposition.

[Voltage]

Interesting, I never heard of Nilote Sudanese imports to Somalia! Thanks for your input.

I hadn't either until my father told me that Sudanese are the majority of the Bantus in the Lower Jubba and after some research I not only realized there were even Sudanese migrants but what he said was true. In Cape Town, South Africa I was pulled over by a north African looking Sudanese who said to me "iska waran" and I shocked started talking to him and he told me he was a Sudanese Nubian with a Somali mother and from his mom's side but that he was born in jilib and grew up in Khartoum. He gave me free discount on his sales. If you think this is outlandish, I can get Shirib to confirm from my non-Somali friend. Most of the Somali bantu in Lower Jubba area particularly near Kismaayo are more Nilotic from Sudan.

[The_Patriot]

The nubian soilders are not that many though the served the Kings African rifles.

They also have settlements in Kenya and in Nairobi they established the Kibera settlement which turned into the countries biggest slam after independence.

The also settle in Nakuru.

They are however Nilotic and are in no way Bantus.

Idi Amin is a Nubi and in Uganda the Nubis intermarried with the Baganda.

Sorry for straying but comming back to the discussion I still cannot buy in the theory of recent immigration or slavery maybe if there was a Berlin wall erected btw the Kenya Somali border that has been there for 100's of Milenia.

[Voltage]

Patriot bro you never were much of an intellectual. But if I can ask you, compare our Somali Bantu to Kenya. Are they similar to Kenyan Bantus like Kikuyu or Kenyan Swahili who sometimes can be straight up Bantu and sometimes pure Omani but united by culture? The Arab slave trade accounts for the latter group which describes mostly our non-ethnic Somali peoples. As for the Nubians, you are. I said they are 1/3 of the group and one of the most popular and it explains why most Somali Bantus are darker than Somalis whereas most normal Bantus are on the same level and sometimes lighter than Somalis. Simplistic yes but goes a long way in explanation.

[Mckuus]

^Nubians are North Sudanese...those look like the Arab Sudanese not like the Dinka. You are mixing up the words Nubian and Nilote.

[The_Patriot]

So you mean we need a time machine to proove it

[ibrahimcw]

i like Somali Bantus, today they share religion, language and culture with me, so i like to first say they are my people. having said that, they are not originally from Somali land, they were Slaves brought in from as far as Zimbabwe by the Arabs so they could be exported as part of the middle eastern slave trade, thank God Somalis put a stop to it waging jihad against the arabs, atleast we can be proud of that. Deuces