Somaliland is independent not Recognized

[Monk-of-Mogadishu]

Who was the first monkey to coin that phrase? Its one of the silliest yet commonly held beliefs here. "We have been independent from Somalia since 1991."

No shit. Is that really the case? Kismayo has been independent from Somalia since '91, so has Bari, so has Baydhabo, so has Xamar itself. Every inch of the country has been equally "independent" from the central gov't since it fell. Somaliland was never in existence either autonomously or independently DURING a period of central rule.

Today if Azania declared independence it would have an equally strong case as Somaliland using classical Somaliland logic.

Good morning.

[Cirwaaq]

Is this your daily quick fix for political hangovers?

- Djbouti is still a foreign country in which you require a Visa
- Kenya is the same
- Ethiopia is the same
- Somaliland is still unrecognised
- Somalia still has issues with piracy, shabab and assassination in the north east


1. Indepenedence =

n.) The state or quality of being independent; freedom from dependence; exemption from reliance on, or control by, others; self-subsistence or maintenance; direction of one's own affairs without interference.
(n.) Sufficient means for a comfortable livelihood.

2. Recognition =

Official acceptance of the national status of a new government by another nation.

1. Is statisfied and is measured within a given state, of a given set border established during the colonial era.

2. Is a dependent variable on:

a: The respect others have for the asperations of a somali state and that when denied to a given somali state such an act is discriminatory against all somalis regardless of state affiliation. A somali does not have to be from somaliland to feel the effect of this type of political discrimination enacted by the international community or other Somalis of different states.

b: Somalis are divided between 4 recognised states and 1 unrecognised state.

c: Pre June1960 there were 5 recognised states in which somalis resided however not independent.

d: Djbouti independence June 1977

e: Kenya((independence Dec1963) however NFD still under occupation)

f: Ethiopia(upon eriterian independence april 1993 modern ethiopian state was formed) Ogadeen still under occupation.

g: Somalia achieved independence July1960 - July1960 surrendered it's recognition to form a republic

h: Somaliland achieved independence June1960 - July1960 surrendered it's recognition to form a republic

i: Niether Somalia nor Somaliland have their individual Recognition however they opperate independently in their 1960 borders so to speak.

Does the international community recognise Sheik Shariff as the president of the republic(Somali+Somaliland) Yes or No

Somaliland is independent not Recognized

Can it gain recognition?

- peacefully - not for 20 years.
- forcefully - perhabs if they level Gerowe to the ground and accept heavy troop losses.

[Voltage]

Talk about the point of the topic flying past your head.

[Username1]

Somaliland and its issue with recognition is an escape valve for people when things go wrong. Pirate boy, to put your theory to the test, you a non-somalilander has no right in somaliland and is classed as an alien who will be deported.

[Cirwaaq]

Talk about the point of the topic flying past your head.

Read between the lines



You want everything with a meaningfull summary

take a rant.

[Kukri]

Today if Azania declared independence it would have an equally strong case as Somaliland using classical Somaliland logic.

Good morning.

There is more to 'Somaliland logic' than just declaring independence.

there is no indiscriminate shooting, pillaging and raping and a tradition of systematic killing of innocent people in the house of God.

[gurey25]

Who was the first monkey to coin that phrase? Its one of the silliest yet commonly held beliefs here. "We have been independent from Somalia since 1991."

No shit. Is that really the case? Kismayo has been independent from Somalia since '91, so has Bari, so has Baydhabo, so has Xamar itself. Every inch of the country has been equally "independent" from the central gov't since it fell. Somaliland was never in existence either autonomously or independently DURING a period of central rule.

Today if Azania declared independence it would have an equally strong case as Somaliland using classical Somaliland logic.

Good morning.

You are trying to compare us to your pirate state as usual.
We are not in the same league...

I believe i am the one to coin that phrase because i posted here in 2004.. you can check if they ever get the archives up again..

Let me update this phrase..

We have been independant from somalia not from 1991 but from 1981 when the SNM was formed..

as far as we were concerned Moqadishu did not exist for us and had zero legitimacy..
and when siad barre started to look for someone in the SNM to negotiate thinking that we were like the SSDF, we did not send him a reply, we did not even achnowledge that there were peace attempts...

so its 1981...

[FAH1223]

Who was the first monkey to coin that phrase? Its one of the silliest yet commonly held beliefs here. "We have been independent from Somalia since 1991."

No shit. Is that really the case? Kismayo has been independent from Somalia since '91, so has Bari, so has Baydhabo, so has Xamar itself. Every inch of the country has been equally "independent" from the central gov't since it fell. Somaliland was never in existence either autonomously or independently DURING a period of central rule.

Today if Azania declared independence it would have an equally strong case as Somaliland using classical Somaliland logic.

Good morning.

You are trying to compare us to your pirate state as usual.
We are not in the same league...

I believe i am the one to coin that phrase because i posted here in 2004.. you can check if they ever get the archives up again..

Let me update this phrase..

We have been independant from somalia not from 1991 but from 1981 when the SNM was formed..

as far as we were concerned Moqadishu did not exist for us and had zero legitimacy..
and when siad barre started to look for someone in the SNM to negotiate thinking that we were like the SSDF, we did not send him a reply, we did not even achnowledge that there were peace attempts...

so its 1981...

But one of the SNM's agendas was to take over Mogadishu outright and change the regime.

The whole separation thing came much later.

[gurey25]

I know, i was emphasising that we views ourselves as seperate from moqadishu government as of 1981..
The SNM leadership expected a federal system to replace the regime.

[James Dahl]

The nation state only exists so long as people say it exists and believe in it, all lines on the map are imaginary so much as they exist only in our minds and our actions.

In this sense, most of Somalia remains part of Somalia as they say they are part of Somalia, and the world agrees.

The disconnect is that Somaliland says they are independent but most of the world and the rest of Somalia says they are part of Somalia, and as the lines on the map are imaginary, not amount of "reality on the ground" can force people to say otherwise. Until Somalia recognizes Somaliland's independence, noone else will.

[gurey25]

the problem is james , is that sadly Somalia does not exist today, but somaliland does...

so who will recognize us??

This is why i support the improved preformance of the TFG under farmaajo...
A functioning Government in somalia is in our interest....

at least the international bodies will force both sides to finally sit down and deal with the problem..

[Cirwaaq]

I know, i was emphasising that we views ourselves as seperate from moqadishu government as of 1981..
The SNM leadership expected a federal system to replace the regime.

I have read nothing anywhere that even hints towards such strategy and if that is the case Yesterday can you give a little more detail on the subject please.

2 state Federal system or more?