Abgaal/Wacbudhan/Da'ud ex-Badbado Qaran militiaman "Farmajo forgive me, you were for the people, unlike "corrupt" HSM."

[theyuusuf143]

That's like me claim that ciise maxamuud are with us.

[Gubbet]

That's like me claim that ciise maxamuud are with us.

Wey iska cadahay ariga weer baa ku dhex jiray teerya waagguu Faroole xoog Puntland ku yeeshay .....

[Kees70]

The desperation for acceptance is truly disgusting.

Only the desperate marexaan would boast about an high way robbing slash rapist moryaan praising their abo Farmaajo.

This thread is evidence enough, that only thieves, criminals and all the scums of the society are those who are greatly missing the formerly President who allowed their criminality to go unanswered.

Shame on you folks for giving this criminal an spotlight.

[AbkoowDhiblaawe]

LOL. This man was not part of Badbaado qaran. You can convince yourself of that. My family literally led badbaado qaran so i know. Badbaado Qaran was mainly Wacbuudhan/Galmaax operation led by now mp Xaadole, Gaashanle Mas dile, Gaashanle Yaasin Geedi etc. That's why Muuse Suudi as a daud loves Galmaax as beesha are the engine of Wacbudhan.

Secondly Gubbet and CO. You guys can hate on HSM but the fact is in just 1 year he has done more than Farmaajo did in 5 years. My city Mogadishu is calmer than ever thanks to military police. No qarax for a very long time.

For those who are not aware of what is going on, badbaado qaran/HSM are such divisive issues that our friend Abkoow who is Abgaal/WACBUUDHAN has even divided Wacbuudhan (into his Galmaax vs that gentleman's Da'uud) in order to throw that Abgaal/WACBUUDHAN ex-Badbado Qaran under the bus for implicating HSM's corruption.

Ku soco, lix bilood ka bacdi Galmaax xata waad kala bixin doontaa into Celi Cumar vs your Mataan Cabdulle

Bro nice try. Nobody knows this guy. To get credability get a heavyweight sarkaal la yaqaano. This nigga was not even part of badbaado qaran. I

This divisive sheeko i don't know. Daud waa garbaheyga. But the reality is that Galmaax got the largest number of the Abgaal SNA. That's why i called them the engine of Wacbuudhan

[nine]

Murax

You're right and I feel similar. Infact Somali politics has been stagnant for a decade:
-So called "President" controls a few Square KMs
-No monopoly over violence
-Foreign troops who are enemies to Somalis (Kenya and Ethiopia who have Somali territories will never be in the interest of Somalis)
-Weak "government" of tuugo propped up by the IC
-The border of "Somalia" stops in Galkayo (I said the quiet part out loud)

You could have said that a decade ago. In the grand scheme of geopolitics, little has changed.

[Murax]

Smile, Murax embodies radical skepticism. It has taken me this long to put a finger on it, but it is actually very consistent of him once you look at it from that perspective. Murax does not hold HSM down to faults. He accepts it and even expects him to have them, but wherein his individual actions are considered 'good' by Murax, HSM is reflected by what Murax has considered 'good,'---otherwise he is a lowly human sinner who is expected to be contemptible so nothing he can do can surprise or cause outrage in Murax. Were someone else to be surprised or outraged, Murax will be surprised and outraged, even stunned that such 'gullibility' exists that has not already 'accepted' HSM is a very 'bad' person. In a way, I once remarkably said Murax is an 'enabler' in the Janan saga, but that's just a correlation. Murax wasn't enabling---he was in fact 'protecting' himself from being "surprised/caught off guard" by Janan's inevitable "badness." It is nihilism.

Murax, almost all of Western philosophical theory is rationalized through 'faith' because the values themselves represent what is considered faith whereas Muslims see their faith representing what are their values. This difference is original to Western philosophy starting from the great Greek philosophers like Aristotle. So just remove faith/religious connotations from nihilism (or really any of the Western philosophical theories) and contextualize it purely in human behavior/mindset form. Once you look at it from that perspective a nihilist is someone who believes "bad" exists and that it is even predictable and possibly the norm. A nihilist isn't then concerned with what to do about it, but rather how to exist being aware of it. A nihilist is in that way inward looking, defensive. When you are sequestered inside the castle with the enemy outside, what is important to you is the walls are strong, the gates are bolted, the drawbridge has been pulled up and all exists have been closed. The enemy and there evil outside contained as it is by your knowledge of them having taken necessary precautions isn't your concern. The one inside who would want to peer out at them let alone crack the gate a little to see better ('recklessly as you see it,) is the 'problem.'

Gubbet this had me mind-blown. That pretty much sums it up. I don’t even have a bar for Culusow but a bottomless pit. We are humans and sometimes even if there isn’t anything to be positive about for the sake of our mental survival we need to sometimes fictitiously grasp at straws and find anything. So what Smile mentioned it’s true contradict myself. I truly care about Somalia’s wellbeing and seeing a Culusow is dangerous to mental health if you don’t manage it even to the extent of making up bullshyt positive vibes that in reality are mirages. That’s how I am with Culusow. For that, and also for the fact that I know Xalane support a thief squatter like him over someone like Farmaajo who had Somalia move to a strong, independent path in warp speed. In order to keep Culusow there I feel they Will try to here and there manufacture small little victories to not let his image get to a disastrously low point.


Btw Gubbet why have I never seen you speak about the disastrous Xalane complex affect on Somalia i.e (EU, US, etc). It’s that complex that enables a Culusow.

[Gubbet]

Smile, Murax embodies radical skepticism. It has taken me this long to put a finger on it, but it is actually very consistent of him once you look at it from that perspective. Murax does not hold HSM down to faults. He accepts it and even expects him to have them, but wherein his individual actions are considered 'good' by Murax, HSM is reflected by what Murax has considered 'good,'---otherwise he is a lowly human sinner who is expected to be contemptible so nothing he can do can surprise or cause outrage in Murax. Were someone else to be surprised or outraged, Murax will be surprised and outraged, even stunned that such 'gullibility' exists that has not already 'accepted' HSM is a very 'bad' person. In a way, I once remarkably said Murax is an 'enabler' in the Janan saga, but that's just a correlation. Murax wasn't enabling---he was in fact 'protecting' himself from being "surprised/caught off guard" by Janan's inevitable "badness." It is nihilism.

Murax, almost all of Western philosophical theory is rationalized through 'faith' because the values themselves represent what is considered faith whereas Muslims see their faith representing what are their values. This difference is original to Western philosophy starting from the great Greek philosophers like Aristotle. So just remove faith/religious connotations from nihilism (or really any of the Western philosophical theories) and contextualize it purely in human behavior/mindset form. Once you look at it from that perspective a nihilist is someone who believes "bad" exists and that it is even predictable and possibly the norm. A nihilist isn't then concerned with what to do about it, but rather how to exist being aware of it. A nihilist is in that way inward looking, defensive. When you are sequestered inside the castle with the enemy outside, what is important to you is the walls are strong, the gates are bolted, the drawbridge has been pulled up and all exists have been closed. The enemy and there evil outside contained as it is by your knowledge of them having taken necessary precautions isn't your concern. The one inside who would want to peer out at them let alone crack the gate a little to see better ('recklessly as you see it,) is the 'problem.'

Gubbet this had me mind-blown. That pretty much sums it up. I don’t even have a bar for Culusow but a bottomless pit. We are humans and sometimes even if there isn’t anything to be positive about for the sake of our mental survival we need to sometimes fictitiously grasp at straws and find anything. So what Smile mentioned it’s true contradict myself. I truly care about Somalia’s wellbeing and seeing a Culusow is dangerous to mental health if you don’t manage it even to the extent of making up bullshyt positive vibes that in reality are mirages. That’s how I am with Culusow. For that, and also for the fact that I know Xalane support a thief squatter like him over someone like Farmaajo who had Somalia move to a strong, independent path in warp speed. In order to keep Culusow there I feel they Will try to here and there manufacture small little victories to not let his image get to a disastrously low point.


Btw Gubbet why have I never seen you speak about the disastrous Xalane complex affect on Somalia i.e (EU, US, etc). It’s that complex that enables a Culusow.

I am glad you asked, because I immediately remembered the below exchange with you during the Janan saga concerning the EU Ambassador's unprecedented public statements expressing sadness "for" the victims of Janan's attacks on Beled-Xaawo which was politically interpreted as criticizing the deal. The Marehan Janan Deal supporters, including yourself, were livid---I praised the Ambassador and said his unprecedented diplomatic dissent was a stand against "impunity."

You asked this question;

Gubbet,

With respect I never understood why you in the past showed so much faith in ‘international community’ BS. That’s why I got enraged when you used the EU ambassador statement to embellish your argument about why Janaan should have been arrested. Case in point, the fact that he recognizes the very person who’s crimes you decry says enough about their legitimacy. Bottom line is force will prevail at the end of the day

https://www.somalinet.com/forums/viewto ... 5#p4996277

I gave you this response [Note even then my discomfort with your position not even on the facts, but 'philosophically']

I am glad you pointed this out, because this is a way at looking at the world that I realized recently I am sort of different in opposition to the rest of my clansmen on this board--including you.

In fact, different to many Somalis I would say---who seem to me to reflect your side than mine.

• Murax I would say you adhere to "dualism" in looking at the world.
  
  • You also display belief in "moral relativism."
  
  
  
• I adhere to "pluralism" in looking at the world
  
  • And I seem to affirm "cultural relativism."

When you say "this guy is a warlord, he was going to kill anyways so at least this deal can stop MORE of it from happening" and add "there's always God and the Hearafter, let's leave it there"---you have no idea how infuriating that sounds to me.

What you are espousing is moral relativism-----PAUSE: not that all morality is equal, but that some people are good and some are bad [NATURE] and by the very RECOGNITION of the distinction ("morality")----you are prepared to tolerate it if there is a perceived interest even if the "bad" completely goes against the intention behind the interest.

I am the opposite.

I accept cultural relativism----PAUSE: again not that this is about "equality" and cultures but that people are products of their environment [NURTURE] and reflect it in how they interact with their world ("culture"). Because of that I can see why Marehan are treating Janan the way they did and I can see why the European ambassador DID NOT SPEAK when Janan was in Kenya but is speaking now.

Which brings us to DUALISM AND PLURALISM.

Dualism is THIS OR THAT;

1.Janan gets this deal.
2. Or more people die.

1. The EU Ambassador must always be this outspoken.
2. Or stop speaking.

1. Janan doesn't HAVE to get justice here on earth.
2. But he WILL in Aakhira

Now these are absolutes, but really I have observed your dualism to be that constrained (heart or mind, feeling or thought.).

I observe the world through PLURALISM;

1. Janan has waged 2 unsuccessful wars, is not a threat, and Kenya has moved on from physical confrontation with us.
2. People will not die
3. The deaths that occured should be held accountable
3. The government out to condition Janan's surrender to justice

1. The EU Ambassador represents his government in a job
2. He adheres to accepted diplomatic protocol
3. Of course he did not comment about Kenya and I don't expect him to comment in the future on any bilateral entanglement between Somalia & neighbors
4. As someone very involved with domestic capacity building in Somalia, his statement was actually humane considering the sensitivity and courage (the appropriate kind not the irresponsible type to speak over his country on a foreign border issue).

1. I leave Heaven to God
2. The point of building institutions and Governmence now is to provide law and order to us here
3. Law and order is about legal precedent and the rule of law must be steadfast and binding
4. Janan must be held accountable for going to a foreign country and attacking twice


Now obviously, I was generous to myselfin fully explaining my positions but THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT PLURALISM IS.

I even identified clearly my gripe wasn't even with "Marehan" the clan because as a cultural relativist, I accepted they could even be hostages to their environment;----my gripe was with Government.

It is also why the EU Ambassador was to me a case of "two truths can simultaneously co-exist.

1. He was right not to speak when Janan was in Kenya.
2. He is right to speak when it is entirely within domestic Somalia policy.

Murax,

Xalane isn't responsible for HSM's greed, corruption, and maladministration. I see no empirical evidence to support the basis of implicating Xalane at the level it is done in in this manner in Somali discourse. There are a lot of things I would criticize about the international community role at every level and I have articulated those criticisms on many occasions. However, HSM is responsible for HSM's government and I even inversely view the imposition of the Xalane grand-excuse as "enablism" of Somali leadership failure that is #1 the cause of failed Somali governance.

[Murax]

Gubbet I found your argument supplementation of a EU statement even more laughable now than I did then. If you presented your argument then with real pros and cons as it related to how that Jannan situation hurt or helped political stability we would have been able to compare and contrast. But I honestly find many of your arguments based not on harsh realities but innocent naive ideals based on good assumptions of people/entities. The world is shaped by folks who exhibit ruthless pragmatism Vis a Vis higher moral position that is many times elusive in jungle law scenarios.


With regard to my statement that you many times exhibit alarmingly unrealistic views based on good assumptions of people. Your lack of understanding that Xalane plays a instrumental role in keeping Somali institutions weak in perpetuity is mind boggling. It’s why Farmaajo was given a cold shoulder while Culusow was propped up.


You truly believe Xalane/EU are doing what they’re doing by the goodness of their heart. Like they say in the good ‘ol South bless your heart. Why the hell in frigging 1995 was the EU commissioning reports titled ‘A study of decentralized political structures for Somalia’? What do they have to gain?

https://arcadia.sba.uniroma3.it/bitstre ... omalia.pdf


I feel with Culusow you get warped vision. Yes he’s the current crux of the pain but he’s not the disease. Neither is Xalane, the disease I agree is Somalis themselves. That said do not come to me and support your argument by one of the negative actors in the Somali tragedy.

When you were speaking about Janaan that time what I was expecting from you was a deep dive analysis for why striking a deal with him was detrimental to political stability in Gedo, and for Somalia as a whole based on a tangible plus minis basis with regard to Somali political stability. Suffice it to say I was disappointed I didn’t get that.

[Gubbet]

Gubbet I found your argument supplementation of a EU statement even more laughable now than I did then. If you presented your argument then with real pros and cons as it related to how that Jannan situation hurt or helped political stability we would have been able to compare and contrast. But I honestly find many of your arguments based not on harsh realities but innocent naive ideals based on good assumptions of people/entities. The world is shaped by folks who exhibit ruthless pragmatism Vis a Vis higher moral position that is many times elusive in jungle law scenarios.


With regard to my statement that you many times exhibit alarmingly unrealistic views based on good assumptions of people. Your lack of understanding that Xalane plays a instrumental role in keeping Somali institutions weak in perpetuity is mind boggling. It’s why Farmaajo was given a cold shoulder while Culusow was propped up.


You truly believe Xalane/EU are doing what they’re doing by the goodness of their heart. Like they say in the good ‘ol South bless your heart. Why the hell in frigging 1995 was the EU commissioning reports titled ‘A study of decentralized political structures for Somalia’? What do they have to gain?

https://arcadia.sba.uniroma3.it/bitstre ... omalia.pdf


I feel with Culusow you get warped vision. Yes he’s the current crux of the pain but he’s not the disease. Neither is Xalane, the disease I agree is Somalis themselves. That said do not come to me and support your argument by one of the negative actors in the Somali tragedy.

When you were speaking about Janaan that time what I was expecting from you was a deep dive analysis for why striking a deal with him was detrimental to political stability in Gedo, and for Somalia as a whole based on a tangible plus minis basis with regard to Somali political stability. Suffice it to say I was disappointed I didn’t get that.

Murax, you are a radical skeptic (and this is not an insult but a legitimate state of existence) which frames your entire outlook, i.e your 'eyes,' so I did not expect you to agree to my position but there is a problem here regarding ability you still not fully understanding my outlook which I cannot defer to leaving unaddressed.

So Murax do you see how I not only was able to understand your perspective, but in fact even relayed it back to you so clearly you said your mind was blown? I was able to understand your point of view while still being in disagreement with it and infact, not only while in disagreement but even refusing to accept it (I will say why). The reason why I was able to understand it is because I suspended my own perspective/world view and explicitly tried to put on your shoes and see from your perspective. I would encourage you to suspend your own point of view to truly understand mine.

Regarding why I refuse to accept it---Murax I believe in FREE WILL. I actually even internalize the moderate concept of FREE WILL which is entirely reflected by my Islamic faith---most beautifully articulated by the very simply phrase "TAXADAR." Taxadar as you know is what embodies the complex relationship between "predestination" (immutability//without capacity/determinism) and "free will" (dynamism//innate capacity/self agency). Essentially, "taxadar" is the embodiment of the compatibility between Fate (Qadar) and Niya (Intention) or in other words... Choice (Camal)!!!

Murax, I believe people have 'agency' over their actions and that they should be held 'responsible.'

A Janan can be predisposed to 'meanness' which would not implicate my personal concern, but his choice to hurt other humans should be held 'responsible.'

A HSM can be predisposed to fickleness which would not implicate my personal concern, but his choice to mismanage public coffers should be held 'responsible."

[ReturnOfMariixmaan]

Murax

You're right and I feel similar. Infact Somali politics has been stagnant for a decade:
-So called "President" controls a few Square KMs
-No monopoly over violence
-Foreign troops who are enemies to Somalis (Kenya and Ethiopia who have Somali territories will never be in the interest of Somalis)
-Weak "government" of tuugo propped up by the IC
-The border of "Somalia" stops in Galkayo (I said the quiet part out loud)

You could have said that a decade ago. In the grand scheme of geopolitics, little has changed.

Bingo

[OwQariib]

Farmaajo is just another Abdiqasim. Good guy "outlook" but doesn't want to get his hands dirty in cleaning up the mess. HSM is fighting AS and i haven't heard bombs go off in Mogadishu for a long time, Allaha uziyaadiyo. Corruption? All Somalis are corrupt. Some just hide it better than others. Move the capital? To your xenophobia ridden villages that kicked out RX villagers such as Las Anod? Don't tire yourselves. HSM is going to complete his term. Even if he is assasinated in office they will simply get his HAG colleagues in power. Kaartadii la dejiyey cidina loo hakan mayo. HSM wuu kaa nabad helaa this term Aabihiin cune.