Real Talk: Somalia-Two Periods

[American-Suufi]

WASTE OF SPACE.

Mohamed Siad Barre AUN Best Somali president.

[Somaliweyn]

American_suufi,

He was not a president, he was a dictator. And he did not love his country because what man would take the country with him to his grave? 21 years of corruption and nepotism was not enough for the old man

[Salah Al-Din]

Assalaamu Alaikum,

Truth be told, there's only two difference between Aden Adde and Siad Barre. The first is Aden Adde left office peacefully while Siad Barre left by the barrel of the gun. The second is Siad Barre commited genocide and Adden Adde did not. Nevertheless, they both employed neptotism, corruption, tribalism, favouritism, and the mother of all vices sewing the seeds of disunity. They say all roads lead to rome, and in our case the problem with Somalis and the former Somalia Democratic Republic leads us back to the the union being still born from inception. Therefore, we can conclude that neither administration achieved anything. Infact, the only thing they've acheived is to outdo one another at being worse than the one that preceded it. Siad Barre was worse than Abdi Rashid, and AbdiRashid was worse than Adden Adde. Yet, the achievement of these three criminals is what you see before you, Somalia Proper fighting over clan and power and who will be the one at the top to practice neptotism. They all played their part in the troubles that we face. In somali they say, Awrba awrka ka horreeya ayuu horraan-qaadkiisa leeyahay. Look at your achievements, they've culminated in Ethiopia colonizing you. Take a good long look and see that you're reaping the seeds you've sewn. In any event, Inshallah things will get better for Somalia Proper and for all Somalis from NFD to Somali Galbeed to Djibouti to Somaliland.

Wassalaam

[FAH1223]

American_suufi,

He was not a president, he was a dictator. And he did not love his country because what man would take the country with him to his grave? 21 years of corruption and nepotism was not enough for the old man

You overstate it, the nepotism and what not was really starting after the Ogaden War and into the 80s it got bigger

he was the president, but the destruction of somalia doesn't lay on his shoulders alone (he sure as hell gets some blame, no one denies that)

[Salah Al-Din]

Assalaamu Alaikum,

FAH, when were the Ulama slaughtered? 19 what?

[luis1]

Well Somalia was destroyed by Barre and warlords like Yusuf and Aidid.

[American-Suufi]

Assalaamu Alaikum,

Yet, the achievement of these three criminals is what you see before you, Somalia Proper fighting over clan and power and who will be the one at the top to practice neptotism.

Criminals? Akhas, you don't even know the Islamic etiquette when discussing about dead Muslims. Go and have a shower.

Somaliweyn you are the last person I will believe about your analysis of other Somali leaders without bias. You can't be objective because you only believe only your tribe to do good and others to be evil.
Yes, Aden Adde AUN was a good leader, but he ruled for a short period and gave up the leadership voluntarily when he lost. That itself is an achievement in Africa.
Mohamed Siad Barre AUN was more popular towards the Somali people than the previous leaders and yes he came to power by the barrel of the gun. Somalia was heaven and acheived many things during his rule compared to today's Somalia. My family still adores and still call him Jaale Siyad when they talk of Mohamed Siad Barre AUN. He was a human and made many mistakes. But don't underestimate his achievements by looking him through tribal lenses.

[Somaliweyn]

My family still adores and still call him Jaale Siyad when they talk of Mohamed Siad Barre AUN.

And that must serve as indication of how great he was? Your Family?

Everybody who shared with Barre on the state finances (corruption) must adore him.

[SummerRain]

Naga dhaafa wa Ramadan and the men you guys are talking about are 6feet under.

[Somaliweyn]

Naga dhaafa wa Ramadan and the men you guys are talking about are 6feet under.

But these men and their failures/accomplishments is what lead us in this current situation.


Truth is, if the civilian government never succumbed into corruption/nepotism/mismangment we would not have the brutal rule of the military junta.

Truth is, if the military government never succumbed into corruption/nepotism/clannism and brutal rule we would not have the destructive anarchy which eventually paved the way for the Ethiopian invasion and occupation.

So history is important to understand were on is now, and were one will be heading in the near future

[SummerRain]

Aboowe, this sort of debates are over done. Somalis are never going to agree on each other's shortcomings. The greater lesson here for us should be the simple truth that all Somalis are accountable one way or another for the mess we are in now.

Talking about men who are no longer with us and debating why they did what they did is just waste of time to be honest. We all know every Somali is going to be biased to his clan member regardless of the facts. Adiga un ba danbi aruursanseen meeshan ee rather then being stuck in our past mistakes, how about we debate about finding common ground. Enough is enough, we have established that everyone was wrong one way or another here.

[American-Suufi]

Naga dhaafa wa Ramadan and the men you guys are talking about are 6feet under.

Exactly buddy.

[sadeboi]

Somaliweyn, you have drove this thread into the wrong place, on purpose maybe.

Economic achievements:

It unleashed its first 5 year development plan in 1963.

The plan materiaized to some extent. While ofcourse some of the money ended up in private pockets as result of corruption.

So at mid 1966, a report found that the rate of implementation of the plan was only 25%!

This is the economic achievement you mentioned of the period of Aden Cadde(aun), in which you have accredited him basically no achievements. The first five-year plan did not work and the implementation of it was only 25%. So do you disagree that Aden Cadde (aun) had no economic achivements in his record, just promise on a paper which was not carried out?


You then got into Abdirishad era and you mentioned this:

To make up for delays in implementation, Government launches in 1968 a two-year Short-Term Development Programme.

You said he made a new [two-year] plan and in 1969 his government was toppled bro, and in knowing that, you accredited the early success of the revolutionary governments to this plan. When asked how did the 2-year plan achieve to help the revolutionary government in its early period you replied:

SB,
How else can you explain the fact that the military government that assumed power by coup d'etat saw impressive economic figures as early as 1969 and 1970-71.......the critical first years in which the generals were preoccupied with survival and power plays?

I ask you again, what source do you have to explain how the 2-year plan by Abdirishid helped the revolutionary government economic boast in its first few years of power? Also, I want an answer from you, DURING Abdirishids (aun) reign was there any substantial economic achivements besides that 2-year plan you mentioned that helped AFTER HIS REIGN?

This is on page 5, yet the guy could not answer them, when asked in another thread about this HE SAID SAY THIS IN THE ORIGINAL THREAD, not knowing that what I said there was uttered here too. Yet no answer in BOTH THREADS from somaliweyn.

[Somaliweyn]

SB,

Well done.

Lets continue the debate in her. I will give you my sources. In the meantime be patient and dont run to other threads and derail this topic.

[sadeboi]

Economic achievements:

It unleashed its first 5 year development plan in 1963.

The plan materiaized to some extent. While ofcourse some of the money ended up in private pockets as result of corruption.

So at mid 1966, a report found that the rate of implementation of the plan was only 25%!

This is the economic achievement you mentioned of the period of Aden Cadde(aun), in which you have accredited him basically no achievements. The first five-year plan did not work and the implementation of it was only 25%. So do you disagree that Aden Cadde (aun) had no economic achivements in his record, just promise on a paper which was not carried out?


What is your answer?

To make up for delays in implementation, Government launches in 1968 a two-year Short-Term Development Programme.

You said Abdirishid [aun] made a new [two-year] plan and in 1969 his government was toppled bro, and in knowing that, you accredited the early success of the revolutionary governments to this plan. When asked how did the 2-year plan achieve to help the revolutionary government in its early period you replied:

SB,
How else can you explain the fact that the military government that assumed power by coup d'etat saw impressive economic figures as early as 1969 and 1970-71.......the critical first years in which the generals were preoccupied with survival and power plays?

I ask you again, what source do you have to explain how the 2-year plan by Abdirishid helped the revolutionary government economic boast in its first few years of power? Also, I want an answer from you, DURING Abdirishids (aun) reign was there ANY SUBSTANTIAL achievements besides that 2-year plan you mentioned that helped AFTER HIS REIGN?

Because, this is what it states from one of your sources [country studies] about the early economic success of the revolutionary regime:

On October 20, 1970, the first anniversary of the coup, he announced:



In our Revolution we believe that we have broken the chain of a consumer economy based on imports, and we are free to decide our destiny. And in order to realize the interests of the Somali people, their achievement of a better life, the full development of their potentialities and the fulfillment of their aspirations, we solemnly declare Somalia to be a Socialist State.

Relying on Soviet advisers and a committed group of Italian educated Somali "leftist" intellectuals, Siad Barre announced the 1971-73 Three-Year Plan. The plan emphasized a higher standard of living for every Somali, jobs for all who sought work, and the eradication of capitalist exploitation. Agricultural "crash programs" and creation of new manufacturing plants were the immediate results.