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qadr is really simply and doesnt even need to be complicated or over thought about it ( as i "think").

simply each of us have choices and Allah equipped each of us tool to be capable to make choices what throw to their way in life. Allah on other had his infinite knowledge, as Alah time doesnt limit him , all known, knows and already written it.

Also human have fully option to make their own decission and that is why there is hisaab. if you dont have a say about what happens to you. how is fair to be countable in afterhere?

i dont know and my guess are as good as yours. but that is what i understood and i just do what i think is right ( not all the time tho) and hope for the best.

I love how a thread about an attack on a cabbie turned into a discussion about theological determinism

Dud barely speaks English but somehow was allowed into the army?!

hyper,

I disagree that Qadr is in any way 'simple'. What is a choice if it's already known and written? Humans have a will which results in xisaab, but all things have been decided long before there was even creation. "Simple" is a bit of a stretch, don't you think?

Murax wrote:

Alphanumeric wrote:"Trust in Allah and nothing bad will happen, but if something bad happens accept it because it's from Allah". I dunno, doesn't make you scratch your head?

Trusting in Allah doesn't mean that You will not be faces with a test a trial or a tribulation. It doesn't mean that You won't be faced with something You think is bad but it good. Trusting in Allah, and accepting His decree means that ultimately at the end of the day whether down the road at another point in Your life, or in the Hereafter that whatever happened was for the best. Allah is the best of planners.



I'm sure You can think of many things in Your life You thought was a calamity but that You look back and see that it was actually a good thing.

I can think of plenty examples where this is completely inaccurate. "Whatever happens is for the best" is only rewording what I've already addressed in the above quote.

Based wrote:I love how a thread about an attack on a cabbie turned into a discussion about theological determinism

*shrug*

Couldn't let it slide.

lol Alpha, if you over think of it, really makes so complicated. as we know if we are countable in judgemnt day and everything angels writing each second. that means God knows and wrote it cause He knows that what "we" do. knowing you will do something and deciding for you are different things dont you think?

anyways, i think it that simple and you think is comlicated.

maybe the way i think is, if is writen, then why bother, im already doomed. if not , then i can make difference in my end.

ps; i understand murax's point. i understand he means, if we trust God's fair judgemnet then who cares qadr! he means that maybe or maybe not!

If an action is known and written before it occurs, it's already been decided.

I don't think it's complicated, I think it's impossible to truly understand. Anyone who says it's simple is lying to himself.

The fact of the matter is, it is written, as we're required to believe. We're also required to believe we have choice in our actions, which results in judgement. How the two beliefs can possibly coexist is, to me, incomprehensible.

As to Murax's post, it suggests that a mother whose child dies of starvation in her arms, as a result of civil war caused by the greed and corruption of men and government, must accept that what has happened is for the best. No. I can't and will never agree to that.

Is our life and where we go after death pre-determined? I think we debated on this subject not long before.

Alphanumeric wrote: The fact of the matter is, it is written, as we're required to believe. We're also required to believe we have choice in our actions, which results in judgement. How the two beliefs can possibly coexist is, to me, incomprehensible.

I had this above question all my life. The most sensible answer I got was from a somali sheik, He said something close to: think of this world as a large jungle where the strongest survives - in other words, Allah doesn't interfere what's happening around the world often. Evil flourishes and all unthinkable cruelties take place without much intervention - small children get sexually assaulted, tortured, killed and even sold as prostitutes, etc, etc, etc. Regardless of which path you take, your deeds are recorded as you go through life and you'll be judged hereafter.

What is Qatr? To me it is basically everything we do - the good, the bad and the ugly - everything is Qadru Allah.

If everything is Qadru Allah, how is it that Allah does not intervene?

I am with Al Cracker on this one. Al Cracker was right to beat on Al Qaida

awahab, i didn't read most of the posts one of hyper's caught my eye.

Alphanumeric wrote:If everything is Qadru Allah, how is it that Allah does not intervene?

think of yourself as a pre-programmed robot with limited autonomy. Your instructional manual is the book of your faith, in this case, the Quran. If you are programmed to have your first mating on a certain day, u'll have it that day without intervention. Intervention comes if God decides otherwise and that session is replaced with something else.

Alpha, read about mu'tazilah and Ash'ariyya debates, see if you can find an answer to your question!!!



Murax, just be careful...


Jaidi,

مصر هى امى
نيلها هو دمى
شمسها فى سمارى
شكلها فى ملامحى
حتى لونى قمحى
لون نيلك يا مصر
مصر ... مصر
ماتلاقيش مثالها
ست كل عصر
ضله جنب نيلها
تسوى الف قصر
ولا ورده بلدى فيها
عطر مصر ولا جو مصر
ولا سحر مصر
مصر ... مصر

Alphanumeric wrote:If everything is Qadru Allah, how is it that Allah does not intervene?

Qadr or His Will, is all encompassing. Allah's Will is what all of existence runs on, not a single particle could move or continue to exist except that He maintains it and Wills it. When we come from that understanding, we know that nothing can happen without His will. Then there is His Knowledge, that is all encompassing to every all things, nothing shall be or has been but that He already knows it, in a way that is beyond our understanding of time.

Alpha, you are struggling with two concepts that are mutually incompatible, free-will and destiny. That means that we have to hold two opposite things to be true at both times. It's like for me to ask you to believe that you exist and that you do not exist at the same time, impossible, how does one know what non-existence is like? But look at this, Allah is beyond time and space, and therefore his attributes and qualities are beyond time and space, beginning and ending. Yet His Knowledge of All things is of beginnings and endings, the beginning of creation and end of creation, which is in the realm of time and space. Isn't it amazing when you think about it that Allah who is beyond all things still operates in all things, two opposites yet both true. He is not part of creation yet creation is not apart from Him. He commands you to obey Him, yet through His will (no fault of His)you sometimes do not obey Him.

We speak of the tablet and the pen as if we understand the tablet and the pen. Do not forget that they were the first of creation, before this universe. We automatically assume that it is like a tablet and pen in our world, you simply write. Does Allah write, does he use letters, is it in a language, is it in a realm that is limited by time (or even linear time) such as ours etc? Allah is beyond all our imaginations yet we limit his words to our imaginations, as if the Arsh (throne) and Kursi (foot-stool) are actual objects we understand, far be it for Allah to be limited. Do not forget that Arsh, Kursi, Qalam, and Lawh'al'mahfuuz are words of things that are of this world, created things by humans, but Allah uses those words to point you to something greater, things that are too great to comprehend. To bring my point home, look at the paradox of this Universe. They say it is infinite size, yet we know it was once contained in a small manner and that it blew asunder rapidly, but they also say that it will reach a maximum size and comeback together. A paradox I never understood, and what is it expanding into, does it have a space, size?

There is a whole list of paradoxes in the religion, and if you truly want to search for answers, this is probably not the best place to start.

The last I checked---the name 'Salim' is a Yemeni origin name. How does it make this cabbie a Somali?? Baal be careful using the name of Somali--it is Qaali.

murax , Alpha just confusing himself and mixing between " qodra" and human's choice and Allha's i finite knowledge.

how Allah create you and doesnt know what will be ?

Navy, please explain to them, qodra, in لغة والعقيدة is all on the net but in arabic.

So according to FAH here , I get a warning for being too harsh on Minneapolis mayor one of the dumbest posters here , who called this cab driver a terrorist and a traitor and the rest of us stupid somalis for not seeing the 'truth" according to his views ?

No wonder this place has always been the favorite hang out of all the rejects we've got, unbelievable .