NEasterner wrote:Reply to koront's cheapshots again A/Y and the TFG, and praise of the dictatoria regime of MSB:
The institutions, the infrastructure, somali unity was there before MSB and it's government. That made it easy for that corrupt government to 'function', even mugabes government functions, so what?
Not to mention the foreign aid by russians made it easy to hide all the corruption by adding some 'cosmetic' socialist programs, the MSB regime killed wadaads, massacred innocent civilians because of their clan and brought socialism/atheism to somalia. When the russians where finaly kicked out because they backed Ethiopia instead of somalia, there were somali people celebrating.
Abdullahi Yusuf on the other is cleaning up the mess made by MSB, therefore a little patience before we can judge him.
How can you call yourself a muslim and support the killing of wadaads, and support a government that tried to force scientific socialism aka atheism ideology on the somali muslim people? Hypocrisy at its finest.
Koronto91 wrote:Did MSB's government troops do this?
"The trouble started when government soldiers went to the market and, at gunpoint, began to help themselves to sacks of grain last week. Islamist insurgents poured into the streets to defend the merchants. The government troops took heavy casualties and retreated all the way back to the presidential palace, supposedly the most secure place in the city. It, too, came under fire."
When has the looting of civilians become an acceptable norm for a supposed "government"? Why are they looting when they should be clearing the numerous check-points from the city & restoring security?
The man who charged those wadaads with treason in 1977 was Col. Nur Cadde, the Mbagathi group's PM, why don't you hold him accountable? He was the government's prosecutor and saw it to it that they were executed.
Weak argument, man! Not that I ever supported the killing of those men (one of them was actually a family relative). But I am only pointing out the obvious.
Are they there to defend the people.
God bless siyad bare atleast he fought of our enemies and built our nation what a hero stand up an salute the man :love:
Koronto91 wrote:Did MSB's government troops do this?
"The trouble started when government soldiers went to the market and, at gunpoint, began to help themselves to sacks of grain last week. Islamist insurgents poured into the streets to defend the merchants. The government troops took heavy casualties and retreated all the way back to the presidential palace, supposedly the most secure place in the city. It, too, came under fire."
When has the looting of civilians become an acceptable norm for a supposed "government"? Why are they looting when they should be clearing the numerous check-points from the city & restoring security?
The man who charged those wadaads with treason in 1977 was Col. Nur Cadde, the Mbagathi group's PM, why don't you hold him accountable? He was the government's prosecutor and saw it to it that they were executed.
Weak argument, man! Not that I ever supported the killing of those men (one of them was actually a family relative). But I am only pointing out the obvious.
Are they there to defend the people.
God bless siyad bare atleast he fought of our enemies and built our nation what a hero stand up an salute the man :love:
he didn't do shitt ..you are underestimating the nationalism and enthusiasm of the somali people after independence in 1960 all somalis were on a high and nationalism and somalilnimo existed. Why are you giving to one individual the credit that all our parents and grandparents deserve.
Unless for qabiil reasons you believe he deserves to be worshipped
as a human siyaad barre made mistakes but also good and bad ones.we need to do it now with c/yusuf if you dont like him you can vote him out in 2009 lolz simple dont you think.
Last edited by fagash_killer on Fri Apr 11, 2008 4:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Walahi its not about Qabiil if its about Qabiil why dont i praise in Dafle for being part of that and Abdulahi yusuf or ali galeydh of the tfg that era was one of nationalism and somalinimo which i wish it went well and siyaad was at the top of it.
luis we were not defeated but we were victoriouse until the west out of xaasidnimo turned a blind eye and africa went against somalis wish to unite and the communist led by russia and cuba started taking sides but we surely defeated them (ethiopians).
[quote="luis1"]Siad Barre destroyed Somalia and killed many somalis,I think he is killer.
He lost Ogaden War in 1978,He is not a hero.[/quote]
the ogaden war was one of the biggest mistakes he ever made. ofcourse if you send your troops to the battlefield the underdogs whatever they may are mj and isaaqs mps with ore without the help of mengistu will do evrything to get rid of siyaad barre well that happend.
baby how did he defeated the ethiopians? what is defeat in your eyes?
Last edited by fagash_killer on Fri Apr 11, 2008 4:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Declining economy, inherent nepotism and mass killing of civilians is what siayade barre regime achieved.
"This is concerning Somalia's economy under the late regime; the following info you might also find helpful...Good reading:
Somalia's undiversified economy fueled the establishment of a shadow economy among certain rent-seeking clans like the Marehan. When official trade in cattle and qat was shut down by trade barriers or border closings, these merchants continued trading on the black market by smuggling goods across the border and avoiding tariffs and trading licenses. This generated a substantial amount of money for them. Lee Cassanelli shows this split between private and public control of trade in Somalia:
"Perhaps because Siad Barre could never effectively capture the wealth generated by Isaaq and Mijerteen livestock exporters and qat importers - since this wealth was largely monopolized within the overseas trading networks of these diasporic clans - his government concentrated increasingly on controlling the fixed assets of land and water within the country."
Additionally, the continued decline of the "official" economy and Siad Barre's increasingly repressive politics contributed to Somalia's shadow economy and resulted in an extensive network of underground black-markets in the 80s. Dr. Jamil Mubarak, a Somali lecturer, describes these economic problems:
"A major cause of the economic crises during 1970s and 1980s was poor public financial management involving: a huge but unproductive and debt-creating public investment program; inadequate recurrent expenditures on economic and social services; excessive levels of corruption; and financial dis-intermediation"
Peter Little goes on to describe these economic problems by pointing out that imports were twice that of exports, 70% of the national budget was based on foreign aid and the currency declined from 37 shillings to the dollar in 1983 to 1,500 shillings to the dollar in 1989. Little summarizes this by stating, "Starting in the mid-1980s, the national economy went from bad to worse."
It is important to note that this economic decline was only in the national, state-run economy. These difficult conditions forced people to engage in unofficial trading in order to survive. The shadow economy developed out of necessity, and when rent-seeking groups realized how profitable it was, they drove the economy into "partial reform," as explained by John Hellman. By smuggling qat and cattle across the border to Kenya, and trading small arms among various Somali clans and to resistance fighters in Sudan, Ethiopia, and Eritrea, private entrepreneurs, who were often connected with Siad Barre's regime, generated an immense amount of wealth while some trickled down to the masses.
Domestic Policy Failure and Land Seizure
As the economic situation became increasingly dire and recurrent draughts continued to strain the country, Siad Barre's rule came to be marked by ruthless suppression of dissidents, mass jailing, bombing of civilian targets, and indiscriminate use of landmines. Instead of increasing his control over a steadily fragmenting nation, Barre's "Reign of Terror" only succeeded in fueling popular opposition and worsening ongoing clan warfare. During this time, political and economic risk takers saw it as an opportunity to forcefully displace minority Rahanweyn, Digil, and Bantu by seizing their land in the fertile Shabelle and Juba River Valleys. Alex de Waal describes this time of land-grabbing:
"The Rahanweyn, Digil, and Bantu faced great difficulties in registering the land they had cultivated for generations; Marehan kinsman of Siad Barre and other powerful groups were able to register large tracts of land with ease. If these lands were already cultivated, then the existing farmers were frequently forced off at gunpoint."
When Siad Barre kinsman and other powerful groups seized land in Somalia's "bread basket," they had no intention to continue cultivation. The seizure was only for personal economic gain. This broke down the traditional trade between farmers and pastoralists, because now pastoralists had nothing to exchange their goods for since large tracts of fertile land were not producing crops. Michel Chossudovsky states, "The entire social fabric of the pastoralist economy was undone." Furthermore, displaced farmers, disrupted trade, and draught set the stage for a famine of staggering proportions that claimed 300,000 lives by 1992. Another 1.5 million were in danger of dying, 30,000 died from clan warfare, and 1 million became refugees by fleeing to Kenya, Ethiopia, and Yemen."
Amnesty International said in August 1988 that since 1981 the Government had used torture and "widespread arbitrary arrests, ill treatment and summary executions" of civilians suspected of collaborating with the rebels.
He showed and prooven to both ethiopia and the world that somalis surely can defeat ethiopia easily mashaalaah may he rest in peace in janatul fardowsa and may god forgive him power corrupts peoples hurts pray to allah that you may never lead just as the saxaaba wished they never become khaliifs.
what about the wadaads he had executed? what about the fact that he ran the country under russian scientific socialism/atheism? What about the countless innocents he massacred?
Facts always beat opinion
